The Kevin Sheehan Show - Marshon Lattimore!

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Kevin and Thom discussed the breaking news that Washington traded picks for Saints' 4-time Pro Bowl cornerback Marshon Lattimore. The boys covered the trade from all angles including: front office mindset, compensation, fit, injury history, and more. Plenty of Jayden Daniels talk as well. Some Mahomes from MNF and the Terps' season-opening hoops win too. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. It is Trade Deadline Day and Washington's just made a big one.

They've just traded for Marshawn Latimore, the New Orleans Saints outstanding cornerback. They give up a third rounder, a fourth rounder. They also give back New Orleans a sixth rounder that they got in the trade for defensive tackle John Ridgeway. They get a fifth round pick back from the Saints for Latimore, a blockbuster trade deadline deal with Washington as a buyer. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windonation.

Call them at 86690 Nation. Head to Window Nation.com. Tommy wrote a column about Jaden Daniels. We'll discuss him because discusses. him, it's a good thing to do these days in print or by voice, isn't it? Yes. Yes. He is the gift that keeps on giving, and we need to pound that for as long as it keeps on giving. I mean, it's Christmas morning every single Sunday evening and Monday morning after games. It really is. Like I said, you can't exaggerate.

about this quarterback. It's impossible. He's that good. We'll get to him. We start, though, with this big deal. You know, let me just begin with this. Number one is I'm very, very happy. And we knew this even before the trade was pulled off because there have been reports that Washington has reached out about multiple players, including Valdez Scantling. And then the Latimore stuff started to kind of, you know, simmer a little bit late last night and today. By the way, there's still a possibility of another trade for a player or a trading of a player. Emmanuel Forbes, according to Ben Standing, Washington has inquired about potential interest in Emmanuel Forbes. I said early this morning on radio, I could see them trading Forbes, but if they do that, they got to get, they got to bring back

another corner. They just don't have enough corners on the team right now. I just love, love that Adam Peters and company decided, because this was not the mindset five weeks ago. You know, this was not the mindset before the season started. This wasn't the mindset, I'm sure, you know, going back to, you know, after they even beat Cincinnati in week three. But once they got to four and one and then played the Ravens competitively, and you looked at Panthers, Bears, giants, you had to start thinking, we're in a different situation than we thought we would be in. We can sit here and talk about the recalibration talk all we want, which is different than rebuild. And I think they intentionally said recalibrate because it is the NFL.

And you don't rebuild in the NFL anymore. You know, you tweak, you recalibrate, you, but when you get a few things right that are big like the quarterback, and all of a sudden you're 4 and 1 and 2, 5 and 2, 6 and 2, 7 in 2, and you've got the second best record in the NFC, and you're legitimately in the hunt for a 1 or a 2 seed to go along with a potential division title, you can't treat these opportunities, especially when you have a rookie quarterback contract,

you can't treat them as, oh, we're going to have these opportunities every year. You might. And because you have the quarterback, the chances are better than they've ever been that you could build sustained success. But this is an interesting opportunity. You have in your conference the second best record a chance with Detroit still playing Buffalo and Houston and San Francisco. you got a chance to play two home games in January to get to a Super Bowl. And you had a major limitation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

but see, if we weren't talking about this franchise and we took a step back and said, oh, we're talking about, you know, and I won't even give good franchises. We're talking about the dolphins. We're talking about the Colts. We're talking about the Broncos. We're talking about, you know, the Saints in a certain year.

You wouldn't blink an eye. You'd say, of course they should go for it. They're really good this year. They got a chance to do something. But because we're talking about this team, you know, there is this feeling of, yeah, but it's still Washington. Well, you know what? Last year it was still Detroit.

And that's a good point. The NFL just, you know, this is a different organization. So number one, I am so glad that they didn't take the approach of, yeah, no, this is our first year and we're in a building block mode. And yes, we're having great success. And the quarterback, it seems to be really good. But we'll be pleased with 10 wins and, you know, a wild card berth and maybe, you know, win a playoff game or lose a playoff game just to get that, you know, experience for next year and the year after. No, no. I'm so glad that they didn't approach it that way. And even if they didn't get somebody, I wanted to know that they were approaching it aggressively,

that they were thinking in terms of, it's not just by the way we have a chance this year to do something special. But we also have a need or two on defense. We have a limitation. It's a different day and age. Offense can certainly get you through two or three playoff games if you can outscore people and they can. But you do have a limiting factor potentially. And you needed to address that. So you had a glaring need and you also have a seven and two record with a chance to do something special.

So they thought big and even if it didn't convert into a trade, I love that they were thinking about it and exploring it. Number one. And number two, we get to what they've pulled off so far, the trade for Marshawn Latimore. So let's talk about the player first. He's a true number one corner. He is, when healthy, an elite cover corner, period. He is not allowed a touchdown against him in three years.

He is, you know, when he's, you know, when he's. you talk about the great corners in the game, Marshawn Latimore's name has been mentioned at various times over the last few years. The four-time pro bowler and was the defensive rookie of the year when he first came in the league. He was spectacular, you know, as a young player. Here's the big issue with Marshawn Latimore. The big issue is health. And I'll get to the trade compensation and we'll talk about his contract here in a moment.

But in talking about the player, you are getting a true number one corner. And oh, by the way, you needed a true number one corner. The teams you're going to face the rest of the way in the regular season in high-stakes games, and then beyond that more likely than not in the postseason, they've got guys. You know, you've got two games against the Eagles, A.J. Brown and Devante Smith. The Cowboys aren't playing for anything more likely than not, but you see. still have C.D. Lamb, and they added Jonathan Mingo today from Carolina. You've got Atlanta, Drake London, and Darnell Mooney. You know, you get to the postseason, and you've got Detroit with

Amonra St. Brown. You've got Green Bay with Jaden Reed and Christian Watson and Dobbs. You've got San Francisco with Debo. And, you know, you've got, you know, some big time pass-catching threats. So you needed a number one corner. You didn't have one. You needed one. But you're only getting that number one corner when he's healthy enough to play. And this guy has had injuries. He's had injuries this year, hamstring injuries this year that's cost him a game,

game and a half or close to two games. He only played in 10 games last year. He only played in seven games in 2022. He's missed more games. than he's played in over the last three seasons or a comparable number. He's only played in one season in which he's played all games, and that was his second year in the league. That's Marshawn Latimore's issue, is staying healthy and being healthy because the greatest ability is availability. And he needs to be available because

Washington gave up the following in the trade. A third rounder, a fourth rounder, a sixth rounder. They got back a fifth rounder. So let's just take the fourth and the sixth and offset it with the fifth. What they really gave up was a third round pick. By the way, it would appear their own third round pick, not Philadelphia's third round pick, which they got for John Dotson. I don't, I mean, I haven't seen that confirmed. Maybe you guys will have the answer to that when you listen to this. Right now, I have not been able to find out if it's the better of the two third round picks they have,

you know, or the worst of the two third round picks they have. But basically, you can almost chalk it up to, they traded Jahan Dotson, and they got back Marchan Latimore. That's, you know, a good deal, you know, on the surface. But it's only a great deal if he ends up playing. playing for you in the significant majority of games over the next few years because he's under contract for a big number, not this year, but the next few years. His contract numbers, the next years, they only owe him $605,000 this year because his deal in New Orleans was restructured

for this year. 18 million next year, 18.5 million in 2026. By the way, those numbers are non-guaranteed, You didn't trade what you traded for him without understanding that he is much more than a rental. So he's going to be on your roster. He's got a contract with a few years. It's a big number. They could restructure it. The compensation for me is good for both teams in the moment. It's a good deal.

It's a good swing. It's a worthwhile swing for Washington. It becomes an outstanding deal down the road. if he ends up playing the significant majority of your games, especially the anticipated very important games down the road, this year, next year, and the year after. He's a very good corner. He also played with Terry McLaurin at Ohio State,

so there is, I'm sure, some real understanding of who he is as a guy. You know, he's been a pain in the ass here and there in New Orleans. but this is totally worth the swing, and if he ends up being healthy, it will have been a great trade. And the idea that, you know, you can kind of phrase these things and sort of pitch these things any way you want. But the idea of Jahan Dotson for Marshawn Latimore, that's a trade that you'd make any day of the week. Because you know what's really hard to find? Number one corners. It is very hard to find true number one corners, and they have one as long as he's available to play for them and healthy enough to do so. I love what they did, though. I love the mindset.

I love the trade. Just let's hope he's able to stay healthy and be involved in the big games that are coming this year and beyond. You know what they did. They embrace their accomplishments this year. Instead of backing away from what they've done and say, whoa, you know, we're not really ready to make that next move. You know, we're kind of ahead of schedule. We've got a schedule to keep here, and this isn't it? They embraced it. They embraced what they've done so far, and they added to it with this trade.

I don't know how it works in football locker rooms as much as I do baseball. locker rooms. When a baseball team makes a trade at the trading deadline to pick up a player to add to the club, that boosts the whole locker room. Maybe except for the guy who's going to lose his job, you know, who lose playing time. But generally, the other players look at that as a signal from the front office that they believe in them and that they're there to back them this year. I'll bet it's probably the same thing with football.

I'll bet the locker room was buzzing when they made this feel. So it's a great signal from the front office, not just to the players but to the fans that, you know, they're going to step up when stepping up is the business of the day. You know, I was kind of funny because there were a lot of people out there on the day. social media that were ready to hang the team out to dry if they did make the trade. And I thought that was an overreaction. Say that again. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

In other words, I saw on social media that if the commanders did not make a trade, there would have been a decent amount of angry fans, angry with Adam Peter. That's interesting because I, my sense, you know, for whatever reason, you know, whether it was, let's stick with Sam Hal, let's build out the offensive line, let's go to the quarterback store in a few years. I've had much more of that kind of mindset at times in my interactions. And I haven't sensed, I mean, we took calls today on the radio show about should they make a trade, will they make a trade? And I guess I think that actually more people said, you know, make a move, which I was pleased with. So you might be right in terms of, but I bet you three or four weeks ago it was all about, no, keep your draft capital.

Don't trade away the future. You know, rookie contracts. How did you express what they just did? They just embraced their success? They embraced what they've accomplished so far. They've embraced their accomplishments. They have. They didn't shy away from them.

No, they didn't, they didn't do the, that's not okay, but there's more season to go and, yeah, our record's great, but, you know, the plan from the beginning was for this to be a building block year, you know, a recalibrate year. You, you, I don't care what the plan was from the beginning. There are certain things that have to change the mindset and good for them for understanding what this opportunity is, right? right now because you're not guaranteed of it in the future. And look, when you're acquiring draft picks, they serve two purposes. We always think, well, they'll be able to pick, you know, they'll get a lot of picks in the next draft. They also serve the purpose of trade capital. You know, that's, this is their purpose. Yes.

This is what they're supposed to do. Right. 100%. What do you want all that draft capital for? You want to stack your team with 15 rookies every year? No, part of it is for what Tommy just described for these unique opportunities. So it's a good day, I think, in commanders' land. You're like, you're right.

They may come to regret it at some point, but you can't operate as, you know, like that. You've got to figure that the commander's front office has a lot of intelligence. on Lattimore's, you know, status and his health. I suspect his hamstring will get a lot healthier once he's in a Washington uniform than it was in New Orleans. I was just going to talk about that, actually. You know, he's, you know, been, this has been kind of a lingering thing. You know, I had somebody reach out to me and say it's the Devante Adams situation. He's just waiting to get traded.

Look, the New Orleans Saints started the season 2-0 and scored 91 points in their first two games, which was almost an NFL record. And they looked like they were about to take off. And then they lost a close game to Philadelphia and lost on a walk-off field goal against Atlanta. And then they started getting injuries across the board. Now they've lost seven in a row. I actually think that in many ways that the loss, to the Carolina Panthers on Sunday was a loss that put him into cell mode.

It's very possible that they would not have been in major cell mode had they won that game and got into three and six because they had Derek Carr back playing. They were playing Spencer Rattler there for a couple of games because Carr was hurt. I'm not a big Derek Carr guy, but he's certainly better than Spencer Rattler at this point. but yes, it could magically get better, and he could be in the lineup Sunday, you know, covering George Pickens. By the way, the Steelers just traded for Mike Williams, too. So they finally got that receiver. They've been trying to get for months now, from IUC to Kirk to Higgins.

From the Jets, right? I'm sorry? From the Jets? Yeah, from the Jets. Yeah. So now Aaron Rogers doesn't have to look at him anymore. Mike Williams apparently is a I've been a big fan of Mike Williams and Keenan Allen

in the Charger offense with Herbert and with even with Phillips Rivers before that. He's just a big time, you know, big target. He's had injuries. He, you know, tore his ACL last year in the third game of the year after he was off to one of the great starts of his career. I actually was not in favor necessarily of a receiver for Washington because I like what they have. And I think Luke McCaffrey is just kind of simmering there,

and there's a possibility he could be like Johnny Newton, a bit of a much more of a contributor over the second half of the season for their offense. But if they had like gotten Mike Williams for, you know, a fifth or six rounder or whatever, I would have been fine with that because he's one big-ass target and he can play. But anyway, is it possible that Lattimore all all of a sudden is feeling great. I hope so. I really do because he's missed a couple of spots here this year. You know, missed a game this year, been, you know, injured a lot in recent years.

That's the key. Here's the other thing, too, real quickly. This is, I'm going to guess, give them the opportunity to move San Francisco inside primarily. We'll see how they play it, but I would assume that St. juice, Latimore, with Sandra still back to the position that even Quinn has admitted they'd prefer long-term to have him play, which is on the inside, not on the outside. In terms of zone man, he's outstanding in both of them. I can definitely, as a man cover guy, he is sticky,

he's great in press, he's a good tackler in the run game. He's a good tackler in the run game. He's he's a true number one corner. I mean, we haven't had anything resembling Marshawn Latimore's talent in the organization in a long time. I'm trying to think of like the corners that have been in the organization. I'm sorry? DeAngelo Hall. DeAngelo Hall was outstanding and got better as his career got, you know,

further along as he... That might be the last one. Yeah. I'm kind of drawing a blank right now, but yep, because they just weren't very good defensively for a long time. You know, Darby had a really good season for them and got paid off of it in 2021. Right, 2021, I think. All right. I mean, to me, this is an absolute worthwhile swing at the compensation level with his contract.

But the big mystery is, can he stay healthy and give you enough games over the course of the next few years to make the difference that he's capable of making? And if he does, I mean, I think... Go ahead. Go ahead. No, you go go. How you would like, if you're a commander's fan, how you would like this to maybe have surface is, you know, for Adam Peters going to Dan Quinn and Joe Witt and say, look, we got a chance to get Lattermore here, you know, and they jump at the chance, take it.

And then Adam Peters goes upstairs to Josh Harris and says, we have this opportunity here. and ownership doesn't blink. Yeah. They check it off and they say, okay, go for it. I mean, this is what you want. You don't want ownership to push back when your general manager says with a seven and two football team and a chance to be number one or a number two seed

in the NFC playoff picture. You don't want him, you know, a couple of questions. If I'm the owner, I would quickly say, tell me the pluses, tell me the minuses. And when we got the minuses, which would be, you know, he's had a bunch of injuries that have cost him a lot of games. Well, what are the, what are the medicals say right now? How healthy is he right now? What are the chances that this becomes an issue? You have those questions, but you would then say, I trust in you.

I hired you to do this job. Yes. Yes. Yes. and the pluses have to include the reality is quarterback is a disaster for this team right now, for the most part. And if they're going to continue competing with the current roster the way they had back there, they're going to have to win a lot of games by high

scores to do it. Not that they're capable of not capable of doing it, but they had in a way they had to make a move. Look, their single biggest issue is still run stop. They are a bad run defense right now. They are 31st in the league in allowed yards per carry. They're 29th in the league in overall rush defense. They're 26th in the league in DVOA rush defense.

This is still their biggest single flaw. They cannot stop. the run. But aren't we supposed to assume that we believe they have the personnel on this roster to do that? They haven't done it yet, and they just,

they absolutely got gashed on Sunday by the Giants. I know. I know, but, you know, you got Johnny Newton, you've got Phil Mathis, you got, I went to Ron Payne. But it's really, Tommy, though, it's the linebackers, and they've got talented linebackers, so I, I, I bet,

Yeah. Somebody asked me yesterday after the show on social media. I agree with you, Kevin, that they have a major problem stopping the run, but why? It's a good question. It doesn't look like they've got a tackling issue. It doesn't look like they've got a pursuit or a hustle issue. So it's got to be, you know, sort of, you know, the gap fits, gap integrity as they describe it. Maybe they're getting out-schemed in the run game. They have actually faced some pretty good runners. Tyrone Tracy is a really good running back.

Yes, he is. DeAndre Swift is a dangerous running back. Chuba Hubbard, who ran a little bit on them on that opening drive, is a good back. So they face some good backs. But guess what? They're going to face Najee Harris in Pittsburgh on Sunday. He's gone for over 100 yards and 5.5 yards per carry in his last three games. Then they're going to face Philadelphia.

They run the hell. Have you heard of Sequin Barkley and what he's doing? Have you seen that video where he decided to vault over tacklers backwards? It might be the most incredible athletic feat I've ever seen on a football field. Seriously, I'm sure you've got some Jim Brown stories or Gail Sayre stories for me. I don't remember those players, but what he did was amazing. But I guess my point is defense was always for me once they became like a four and one football team. This was what they needed to do at the trade deadline.

not a receiver. Now, if they decided there was a number two receiver out there that was getable for a decent price, not a rental, I'd understand it, but I like kind of what they're doing. No one stopped them offensively. So that's not the issue. The issue is defense, and they have two issues. They are a bad run-stopping team. Like, not people, it's not that they're subpar. They're a bad run-stopping team. Okay? Full stop. You can give me the Panthers game and the first half of the Bears game all you want. They are a bad run-stopping team by every metric, including the one that you use your eyes to watch games with. They're not good at stopping the run. There was a day, you know, not that long ago, where if you couldn't run the football and stop the run, you couldn't win the Super Bowl, basically.

You couldn't go deep into the postseason. I think those days might be over. I think great offense can trump a lot of other things, and it makes the margin for error much larger in other areas of the team. Like, you know, right now if you assume that Detroit's the best team in the NFC, it's going to take somebody that can outscore them to beat them. But what you do need is you need to get a few stops. You need to make a few plays defensively to win three in a row to get to the Super Bowl. There's that Super Bowl talk again. I run stopping one and then two you had to improve at corner. You had to improve coverage-wise.

You needed a legit cover corner. You don't have one. You're playing Sanra still out of position basically or out of the position you think he can be most effective in. I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens here because Sanra still on the outside. hasn't been that bad. Like, part of me wonders, is it possible they keep Sandr's still on the outside, play Latimore on the outside,

and actually move St. Juice, where he's actually played at times, not a lot, but he's actually had moments of being effective against the slot. They'll have some options there. But, yeah, they embraced their accomplishments. Good for them. It's only nine games worth of accomplishments. I know that.

But you had an opportunity to, you know, help yourself the rest of the season. It wasn't going to be free. Okay. The opportunity was going to be costly, but not costly in actual real players. No. You know, in monopoly money, which is valuable in this business. but it's still not players. Do you know how hard it is to find a true number one corner?

It is one of the most elusive positions to find in any way, shape, or form. I'm going to just look like cornerbacks, there have been cornerbacks that have been drafted so high. This is another position that fails consistently to deliver in the high rounds of the draft. You know, there's so many corners that don't work out. I'm going to pull up just the history, recent history of corners. Hold on for one second. I will find this. So let's just look at the last.

I mean, you know where you start? You start here with Emmanuel Forbes, all right? Deonté Banks in New York is struggled. Both first round picks in 2013. In 22, some pretty good ones in Stingley and Gardner in the first round, and then McDuffie in the first round. So those definitely have worked out. In 21, Sartan definitely worked out. Farley, Newsom has been okay in Cleveland.

Horn has been okay, although the Panthers may be looking to trade him. He was another possibility. Okuda was number three overall after Chase Young in 2020. total bust in the NFL. You know, Jonathan Abram, a first round pick in 2019. I mean, I was a big fan of his coming out. Can't play. Just not good enough.

There are a couple of good ones in 2018, Denzel Ward, Minka Fitzpatrick. But anyway, it may not be the misrate that it is with quarterbacks, but it's hard to find a true number one corner. and they have one in Marshawn Lattimore when he's on the field. So we shall see how it works out. I'm excited about it. I think this is B plus A minus in the moment for Washington. By the way, also for New Orleans,

because New Orleans has a horrendous cap situation, and they're two and seven. And they're going to have to probably start to think more long term, as a few teams will have to start thinking that way. The Cowboys would be one of them. And then, you know, in retrospect, if we look at this two years from now and he ends up being the player

and he doesn't miss a lot of games, it's an A-plus trade. You should get Matt Parris on the show. I already thought about him. I already thought about him. Yeah, over Washington Times. Yes, in New Orleans. Right here for the football team

now covers the New Orleans Saints for the New Orleans paper. I'm going to try to reach out to my guy, Bobby A Bear, too. I've had him, whenever the skins have played the Saints over the years, I think I've had him on, I don't know, three or four times, one of the more entertaining guests. Oh, yeah, and one of the great New Orleans names, A-Bair.

A-Bair. I mean, just total, for them to have a Cajun quarterback, and he was good, you know, and they had good teams with him. Those were the Jim Morris teams, right? Jim Moore teams, indeed. Yeah, they were good. They were good. All right, let's talk some Jaden Daniels, but it's, it's.

possible when you listen to this podcast. I want to get this podcast out a bit earlier today because it is, I think, an important day outside of sports. And I think a lot of people will be locked in to what's going on tonight. So I want to get this out. So if we miss a trade prior to the deadline, I will get to that on tomorrow's show. Tommy wants to talk Jaden Daniels. That works for most people these days. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey everybody, this episode is brought to you by Manscaped, the global leader in men's lifestyle and grooming. Every man knows the unbeatable feeling of a fresh barbershop shave. Now what if I told you you no longer have to wait weeks or even months between appointments to experience it?

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We will talk about last night's game in the final segment of the show. He's at plus 640, Jared Gough at plus 650, and then Jaden Daniels at plus 910. So he is the fifth favorite right now in the MVP odds. The division odds, the NFC East Division odds, Philly still a slight favorite to win the NFC East at minus 140. Washington is at plus 116 to win the division. Two big games coming up for Washington, Pittsburgh, and then the first one. of two with Philadelphia a week from Thursday night. MyBooky.ag, use my promo code, Kevin, D.C.

You can bet anything anytime from anywhere with My Booky. All right. We have not talked to you since the Giant Game. What was your final score prediction again? You picked Washington to win. 27 to 20. Wow. Yes, I knew you were close.

I knew you were close. I picked 23 to 20. I had the Giants covering, and I gave them out as a smell test pick, Tommy. And I'm now one in three on games involving Washington this year, which is the worst I've ever been on games involving Washington. But if the Giants had just kicked extra points, they would have covered. And they should have. But anyway, you wanted to say what about one of the best quarterbacks in the league? Well, to take behind the scenes, I wasn't at the game Sunday.

I go to the home games. I don't go to the way you game. No, you went to the Baltimore. You went to the Baltimore game. Well, I went to Baltimore. Right. But I wasn't in New York. So I'm not going to write a column about the game Sunday for Monday if I'm not there.

Okay, it's just not done, or at least it shouldn't be done. So I'm going to write a follow-up column Monday for Tuesday. You mean like if you're not at the end of the end? Olympics opening ceremony. You shouldn't write a column about it. That was extenuating. Okay. Extinuating. Okay. Just checking. Okay. Continue.

Okay. Everybody has a blind day. Flying. You've got a lot of them. But continue. Okay. So I wrote a column. I'm thinking, what can I do a follow-up on? And I thought to myself, isn't it obvious? Write to quarterback. You can't. I mean, I used to tell my reporters that when you got a story, you need to grab it like a dog with a bone and never like COVID. Okay? You need to write the shit out of it.

I used to tell them. So I took my own advice, and I'm writing the shit out of Jane Daniels. Every chance I get. I wrote about the quarterback, and I'm going to keep writing about the quarterback if he continues playing. in a way that we have never seen a rookie play in the history of the NFL. Okay. This is the story. This is unprecedented.

Okay. It's not just good for his position and his age and his years. He's historic. Okay. So you've got to pay attention to history. So I wrote about, you know, how I'm still just falling in love with this kid every day. And it was one small thing that he said on Sunday after the game. And it's kind of a stupid thing, I guess people may think.

But on the field, when he was interviewed by Fox after the game, he said something to the fact of, you know, I'm real proud of this win because it's hard to win division games on the road. So I know how important it is. Now, we know that. We say that all the time, but he's a rookie who just got here. Okay, I'm sure he's heard it. Right. But for him to have the presence of mind to say that after the game,

shows a recognition beyond his years. Those are important games, division games, and they are hard to win on the road. He's not wrong. No matter how bad. Has he been wrong about anything? So I wrote about that. And, you know, I got quotes from not only, you know, Dan Quinn talking about his maturity, which is off the charts, you know, I've talked about, I've got some giant quotes, you know,

kind of like praising him as well. And I compared him to, I said, basically my story was, you know, there are some things you can't exaggerate. The power of the sun, the soul of Otis Redding, and Jaden Daniels rookie year in the NFL. You can't exaggerate it because it's never been done before. So I'm going to keep writing it. If you're going to get tired of it, that's on you. Tommy, he's, it's just, it's nine games,

and I keep reminding myself of that, but then I'm like, but am I not going to express how I really feel? he's one of the four or five best quarterbacks in the NFL right now. I mean, that's true. You know, I read a couple of emails and tweets from the last couple of days because the postgame show that I did, I basically said in the open, I go, look, right now it's Mahomes and he's in his own tier. Okay, and if you watched last night, you know, further proof,

he is in his own tier. After that, it's Jackson, Allen, and Jaden Daniels. You know, wrap your brain around this right now. Washington has an elite quarterback that is in the conversation of the quarterbacks just below Patrick Mahomes. In the same conversation with Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen, and somebody wrote in and had him, you know, outside the top 10. Somebody else tweeted me, and I'm looking for it right now and I can't find it, but basically saying you're wrong to not include Joe Burrow in that conversation.

You know what? That's fair. And he's having a great year. And Cincinnati without Joe Burrow would really be awful. Like he is a special quarterback too, but we have one. And when you have one, anything's possible. And like I said, it's not just that he's great. The offense is great. And it just creates this incredible margin

for error that you typically don't get when you don't have that player. The margin for error becomes so tiny in every other area of the team. That's why the run-stopping thing, while in issue, they still beat the Giants twice, not stopping the run. They still beat the Bengals without stopping the other team offensively. They still had a chance against Baltimore when they got run over. you still can win games because of this guy. And you know, like, he, the interception thing that you referenced in your column,

because I did read your column. I love reading Tom's columns. He became Tommy the first quarterback. This surprised me, by the way, but Kime tweeted it out, and it came from Elias. it's the fewest interceptions in the first nine games of a season since 1933, which was the first year they started to track interceptions. I actually was surprised at that. I would have thought, maybe somebody's thrown zero or one or two in nine games.

The fewest ever in the first nine games. It doesn't even seem right. I think he said fewest turnovers. Oh, is it the fewest turnovers? Yes. I thought it was the fewest interceptions. You sure about that? Because I saw the tweet.

I could be wrong. Yeah. We can go back and look at his Twitter account, but I think he said turnovers. Okay. Which doesn't diminish it. No. But it makes it, yeah, this is Kime.

When did I see this? It would have been yesterday or the day before. John tweets a lot during the game, man. He does tweet a lot. Okay. Oh, you're right, Tommy. My fault. My fault, I'd screwed that one up because I have uttered it multiple times this week. According to Elias Sports, Washington's three turnovers of the fewest by a team in the first nine games of a season since 1933.

First year turnovers were tracked. Actually, I think I have discussed it that way, and I just changed it this time. I'm messed up right now. That's what a great quarterback does. It speaks to the ball security that Dan Quinn marveled at on Sunday. God, it'd be great if they got more takeaways. Yes. Need a good defense to do that sometimes.

He's special. There's no doubt about it. We talked about early in the year. When will we know for sure? Remember that conversation? It was like after the Cincinnati game, I think. And we're like, when were we know for sure that they got it right and that this guy's the real deal? And you said something that I totally agreed with, and I have repeated a few times.

And that is, we won't know for sure until he faces adversity and see how he handles adversity. And he hasn't faced adversity yet. This has been a major front-running season. they are unstoppable offensively. They were down two scores in the opener. I think we just discount the opener at this point. Week ones are always weird. They were down two scores against Baltimore,

and they got back into it and they had a chance. You know, they were down 27 to 13. They made it 27 to 20. They were down 30 to 20. They made it 30 to 23. You know, they just couldn't get off the field on defense. You know, give him one more chance with the ball. and they probably have a chance to win the game.

Yeah. Yeah. So do we still think it's, are you concerned with him handling adversity whenever it decides to show up? Well, again, part of that answer was also, the mother? Let's see how he does off the field. No, not the mother.

Okay. Let's see how he does off the field during this off season when he's got a choice between OTAs and an appearance on Family Feud. Yeah. Doc said something, you know, he's just like, you know, I don't see him on social. I don't, you know, I'm not following him on social media. Maybe I did look for him and he wasn't on Twitter. I think he's on Instagram.

I think so. I'm not saying, I expect anything wrong or that he, which has a history that would indicate there be a problem, that would just be something that would be one more step I would need to see. And we're not going to find that out until the off-season. Let me ask you, let me ask you a question. If he's in Disney World celebrating the Super Bowl, I don't think it'll matter. No, but would it matter if they got to the NFC championship game?

He finished runner-up MVP. He was the Pro Bowl quarterback in the NFC, had the grand. greatest rookie season ever, won two playoff games to get to the NFC title game, and then missed an OTA day to cut a commercial? No. No, it wouldn't matter. You don't need the commercial. Oh, wait.

Would it matter to you if he missed an OTA day to go do a commercial? It would be a problem for me. Really? Yes. Okay. Now, if he missed all nine OTA days like Chase Young did, that would be a problem. I would be disappointed. Would I want them to do something about it?

Hell no. No. No, I can't wait to watch him play. I hate OTAs. The idea that they put players in this position of having to voluntarily show up and judged by it is kind of ridiculous. I don't like, I don't like that they're putting, it's not necessarily fair, but that's the cards they've been dealt. I mean, I'll bet you that, you know, if all but one of the commanders' players are at OTAs and it's your team leader, that's a problem.

So let's not even discuss it now. How would you? Wait and see what happened. I have a feeling that he would not miss all nine OTA days. I just think that he is, I'm believing what I'm hearing. about him. I'm believing what people have told me about him on the air and off of it. And that would be disappointing and surprising. What if they lost three games in a row in December and they were teetering on playoff positioning and he launched a podcast or a clothing line?

What are you trying to do here? I mean, you know, like I saw this morning, you know, Dallas is in the midst of this, you know, horrendous season. Micah Parsons hasn't played, and he's constantly putting out the latest clips from his podcast. And I just, if we were in Dallas, I think we'd be as great as Micah Parsons is on the field, and he is a true difference maker, okay? But it's like, God, have a little bit of self-awareness, dude. You haven't played, and your team stinks. like let's maybe do the podcast but not promote it as much.

You know, not promote the clips of you talking about some of the issues, you know, with the team. All about branding. I know. All about branding. I just, I think for him, you know, look, we gave the, we gave the, the, the, the Marino example, and the Holmes example, like two guys who actually never faced adverse situations because it started so great.

And they built up a resume that, you know, even though Marino never made it back to another Super Bowl, he was certainly discussed in terms of never making another one. But nobody ever questioned his greatness and how he lead he was. And Mahomes has won so many of them. I mean, even my producer Denton said today about Kansas City, and we'll talk about the game. He said, sometimes it just seems. like Mahomes is just kind of playing with his food at the dinner table. I heard that. I was listening to the show. That was pretty good. Yeah, and that's what it is.

He's been kind of just bored, you know, over the last couple of years until, you know, he's faced with a challenge. Like last night, like I almost think he wants to be down by seven going into the fourth quarter so that he can really, you know, do something that's exciting for him. But there's still one thing, there's still two things with Jaden Daniels. One is, you know, he's got to stay healthy. He's already had, you know, a rib injury that cost him basically a game because he came out and never went back in against the Panthers. They didn't need him again in that game. And, you know, the frame is still a bit of a concern. He's had some injuries, nothing that's cost him seasons or many games.

But that's an issue. And then I'll keep throwing this out there until he does it. This is a warm-weather California guy. I heard you say that. That's not unreasonable. He's never played in cold weather. And last week against the Giants, he was bundled up like it was winter already, and it was like 55 degrees.

So, you know, doesn't mean that he's not going to be great bundled up, but there are certain guys. Well, fortunately, the Super Bowl is in a dome. Yes, it is. And by the way, Detroit plays in a dome and San Francisco plays in reasonable weather. But, you know, Lambo isn't fun in January. Philly and D.C. can be pretty brutal sometimes in January, and it also can be fine. But we'll know that when those games are played, because my expectation is that some of those games will be played.

I mean, they're a playoff team, right? Like, we can talk about that without having to be concerned that we'll have to take it back at some point and look silly. In other words, the Norv Turner, 7-1 start, that turned in the 9 and 7 and missing the playoffs? Are we worried about that? No, and I love Gus Ferrat, but he ain't no Jaden Daniels. No. I don't think so. Did you see Norve got hired in Las Vegas to join their staff as an advisor? Well, Scott Turner, because Luke Gettsy just got fired. Scott Turner, I was assuming, might get elevated to OC. Did he?

Well, that's what people think. Well, it hasn't happened yet, but his dad's now part of the staff. God, man, people in the business love Norve. They love them. Yeah. And how many times has he been called back? I mean, Ron Rivera had him back in Carolina. Somebody else had him back recently. Where's Norv Turner been in recent years? He's been consultants.

He's been an assistant to the OC. Like, he just keeps. So Carolina, 2018, 2019, Carolina 2019. So I guess he hasn't been doing anything since. Raiders, it's already here on his Wikipedia page. He's already been hired as an office. defensive consultant with the Raiders. I would assume that Scott Turner then is going to be the O.C. Because wasn't he the assistant OC? Yes. Yeah. You know, they're just people, like,

the outside opinion of certain people and coaches and players over the years often does not match what the people inside the sport think. Norv was never a great head coach. but people respect Norve's offensive mind as much as anybody's over the last 30-some years. Absolutely. Here's some information on the trade. It looks like Washington is giving up their own third-rounder, not the third-rounder that they got from Philly, which it's important to note was Miami's third-rounder. Okay. So Washington got Philly's third rounder through Miami.

And they're keeping that one, which based on Miami's results, will be a lot higher in the third round, than their own, which right now does not appear to be a third rounder that will be very high in the draft. So that's a good thing. If I'm reading that correctly, it looks like they're giving up the less valuable of their two third round picks in the Latimore deal. Really interested to see, though, how they're going to play Latimore. Because you've got two, you got three outside corners in terms of where they've been playing. and one guy that they have been talking about should be playing on the inside.

So I would assume Sanra still ends up being the slot corner. But at the same time, do they trust St. Juice? Did they trade for Latimore to replace St. Juice? By the way, Noah Igben Ogeny has been playing not poorly when he's had the opportunities and he's had a lot of snaps. So we'll find out. We may not find out Sunday because he may not be healthy enough to play, but I bet that he does magically get much better.

All right, let's finish up the show with a couple of things, including last night's Monday night game and college hoops got underway last night. That more after these words from a few of our sponsors. Is there anything better when you're a football fan than this time of year? it seems like there are games on around the clock. It's a changing time of year. The weather gets chillier. The leaves start to change color.

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Schedule your free inspection and get up to 30% off your entire purchase at Leaffilter.com slash Kevin. That's a free inspection and up to 30% off at L-E-A-Filter.com slash Kevin. See representative for warranty details. So guys, if you're like me and you've basically been buying and wearing this same type of underwear for years, in my case, boxer briefs, same brand, same type for a long time, well, not anymore for me. I want to tell you about skims for men. something I've discovered recently, the softest underwear I've ever worn. I got a few pairs of the 5-inch boxer briefs so comfortable, no matter what you're doing, from sitting in a chair in your office to working out, they are so comfortable.

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Let them know I sent you. After you place your order, select podcast in the survey and select my show in the drop-down. menu that follows. That skims men's at skims.com, select podcast in the survey, and select my show, the Kevin Sheehan show, in the drop-down menu that follows. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's. Well, on a day like this, when your team makes a trade for a top flight cornerback, that's caused for celebration. And let's face it, the best way to celebrate is with a celebratory cigar. You can do that at Shelley's backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district.

And you could find their choices, their available cigars online. They put online on on Shelley's Backroom, their com. They put online their menu of food, which is top-notch, their drink menu as well, but their cigar menu. Just like their food, they have one particular section of their cigar menu. And Shelly's goes out of their way to get the top cigars recommended and rated by cigar

aficionado every year. And Shelly's has what's called an exclusive cabinet selection. These are some of the cigars that might be worth lightened up after today's trade. And Arturo Fuente, Don Carlos

Melocoso, or a coheba, Lou Churchill or a Monte Cristo 1935 anniversary Nicaragua number two. These are not cheap cigars now. These are cigars worthy of your team taking a big step forward.

Recognizing the opportunity, like I said, embracing their accomplishments. That's what you light up for today. The Washington commanders embrace their accomplishments and you can light up at Shelley's backroom. Monte Cristo cigar or Monte Cristo sandwich for you? Monte Cristo cigar. Okay.

That's your choice? Yes. Monte Cristo. You'd like that boat. Ninthirty-five anniversary, Nicaragua number two. But the Monte Cristo sandwich is your favorite sandwich. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Yes. Kind of like a croak monsieur, I think. Don't get crazy on you here. All right. I wanted to talk briefly, and maybe you've got a couple of other things, just about Monday night football last night. Patrick Mahomes is amazing. He basically didn't do a whole lot, and they fell behind 17 to 10, and then he goes over the last, three out of the last four drives, he goes 15 of 16 for 117 yards and two touchdowns, and they win in overtime over Tampa, 30 to 24. It's a great game last night. Weather was a factor. Tampa, you know, I just, I like Todd Bowles so much. I know I've said that so many times over the years. There is something about this guy that I just think he just does things the right way. I think he's just, I don't know him at all, just strikes me as one hell of a football coach, one hell of a defensive mind, and just a high-quality person.

and he ends up in these controversial situations, especially with like the analytics people out there, that drive me nuts because you almost have to have bad luck to end up in these things as much as he does. But he ended up in one last night where they scored with 27 seconds to go, the Buccaneers did. In a game, by the way, they were a 10-point underdog, nine and a half, 10-point underdog.

They've been ravaged with injuries. It's a good football team healthy. And they are right there. They've got a lead going into the fourth quarter, and then they fall behind and they drive. They score a touchdown. And everybody's starting with Troy Aitman. You've got to go for two here. You've got to go for the win.

You know, afterwards, I'm watching Scott and all of his guests. You had to go for the win there. Had to go for the win. And he's asked about it in the press conference. Why didn't you go for two? You know, just like remember a couple of weeks ago when that knucklehead said, why did you have Chris Godwin on the field? And he said, well, we were trying to win the game. He's our best receiver. We had already lost Mike Evans. Well, don't you have a job to protect him?

Well, yeah, but we were trying to win the game. Like, that's why he was in the game. And they were down 10. They had already recovered one on sidekick. And last night is, it's not a black and white, you know, a right or wrong issue. It's a debatable issue. This is either way was okay, but we didn't have enough information and the people talking about it didn't have enough information to know for sure. First of all, with 27 seconds to go in a game and you're going for two, you're not going for the win. You're going for the lead. The game is not over if you make it or miss it. There are 27 seconds left.

Kansas City's got three timeouts left, and they've got Patrick Mahomes at quarterback, and if you go for two and make it, you have now given them four downs per possession. because if they fail on third, they have to go on fourth down. It's a major advantage to the team trying to get in field goal range, not to mention they've got a kicker with a massive leg in Butker. So you're not going for the win there. People have to stop describing it that way. If you score with, let's call it, less than 18 seconds left in the game,

you're going for the win. 27 seconds? Remember when Buffalo scored with 30 seconds? seconds to go in a playoff game and lost, that's Mahomes on the other side. Three timeouts. No, no, no, no. You're not going for the win. You're going for the lead.

And then you're giving him four downs to get into field goal range. So that alone makes it, you know, very debatable. Number two is that we don't know that he felt good about the play. Like, you've got to feel good about your two-point play. A lot of people said he used the two-point play. A lot of people said he used the two-point play in the touchdown that made it 24-23. That was their best two-point play. I don't know if that's true or not.

But you don't know what's going through the mind of the team and the context of did we use our two-point play already? Do we feel good about our two-point play now that we've played an entire game? And then defensively, until the final couple of drives, they had actually played a pretty decent game. it's just it drove me nuts last night to listen to him get skewered over something that was clearly very much a debatable issue. In fact, when he kicked it, I thought it was the right thing in the moment. I'm like, I'm not given Pat Mahomes four downs with 27 seconds. Like, he's probably going to get in field goal range anyway in a tie game. I'm not giving him a fourth down to go do that.

So I actually thought it was the right call in the moment. Here's something else about two-point conversions, Tommy. We are celebrating, and I know you have, the 30-year anniversary of the two-point conversion coming into the NFL, 1994. And so far this year, two-point conversions, 31 percent on the season. Oh, I can't wait to write this column. Oh, baby. I can't wait to pound this one out. Yeah, all you two-point analytics people that just have been saying for years, well, because it's 50-50, and by the way, it's never been 50-50, I think it's 48.4% historically.

You know, it was 55% last year, the most productive two-point conversion year in NFL history. So far this year, teams are converting 31% on two-point conversions. So the next time I hear, well, you got to go for the win there. Really? Well, this year, I got a three and ten chance of winning. If you're using the recent historical information, which is just historical data. It doesn't include the context of the team, of the situation. It's information. It's not the, you know, conclusive information. What teams are now doing all the time and the Giants did it against Washington on Sunday. When they're down 14 and they score a touchdown, they're going for. for two to try to make it a six-point lead. And the reasoning is, well, it's a 50-50 proposition. So if you miss the first time, you'll make it the second one and you'll be right where you would have been had you kicked.

But if the first one is successful, then you get to kick on the second one to win and avoid overtime. Well, the Giants are 0 for four now on two-point conversions this year. And teams are 31% on two-point conversions. I have no idea with the reason. be for the lack of two-point conversion success this year. I guess it might go hand in hand with why early in the season touchdown passes and yards were down because quarterbacks haven't played well, and there are a lot of young

quarterbacks playing, but I don't know that for sure. I have one other thing to get to, but did you have anything else? Well, I got one thing that's not sports related, but I think you'll be interested in it. Okay. It's pretty unique. You remember Terry Gar died recently? Yeah, I remember Terry Gar. The actress.

I think we talked about how much we liked her on Letterman and stuff. Yeah. He was a guest. Right. And all that. Well, her obituary in the Associated Press was written by Bob Thomas. Okay. Just like what she died about two weeks ago.

Yeah. Bob Thomas died 10 years ago. Who's Bob Thomas? He was a guy who writes obituaries. He's an Associated Press reporter. Okay. In other words, he wrote that obituary for her was written more than 10 years ago. Why?

Because this is what newspapers in the news. I've written obituaries for people who haven't died yet. Famous local people, sports figures. I guarantee the post has a whole library. That makes sense to me. Yeah, I understand that. but why would you have written one about her 10 years ago? How old was she 10 years?

But she had MS for quite some time. Oh, okay, I didn't know that. Yes. She said MS for quite some time. But they put a note on the bottom of the obituary that Bob Thomas, the author of this obituary, and there were other people who contributed to it because they had to update it, you know, since from 10 years ago.

But they put a note at the bottom that said, the author of the obituary died in 2014. Why are you sharing this with us? I think that's very unique. Isn't that very unique? I guess. I just don't like the idea. It's kind of grim.

Why? Well, you just told us that two people died, and I don't know. We've been talking happy stuff all day long. You and I should write each other's obituary. No, I don't want to write your obituary. and I certainly don't want you to write mine. Okay? God.

I think it's fine. Can we talk happy? I don't know if you've noticed this and maybe I've just noticed it recently, but more and more when I am with friends, you know, having a couple of drinks, playing golf or whatever, there's a lot of conversation about various people and their health situations. Oh, God. You ain't seen nothing yet. I don't want. If somebody is really ill and it's an information thing and, you know, that's understood, I don't want to sit there in my free time and talk about disease and other, you know,

ailments of people that I know, unless they need help, you know. But my free time, I want to. That's a look at your future, buddy. I don't want it to be my future. I want to be around optimistic, happy, happy talk. God. Can I just tell you something? I don't think talking about ailments and health-related issues is healthy.

I don't think that's healthy. Well, that's what I told you, bumstock has gone from having the police show up to having nurses on call. It's depressing. All right, real quickly, before we wrap it up, Maryland opened up their season last night against Manhattan, and Derek Queen, their five-star freshman, played in Baltimore, played at Montvertee in Florida the last couple of years, the highest recruited player they've had in a while.

He just kind of opened up his college career with 22 points and 20 rebounds in 27 minutes. Not bad for you. your first college game. He was a consensus five-star player. He's one of the highest recruited players in recent memory in Maryland basketball. I think Diamond Stone, maybe Jalen Smith, I'm not sure. But his debut is the first Division I won freshman debut of at least 20 points, 20 rebounds

since Michael Beasley did it for Kansas State in 2007. The Terps beat Manhattan, 79, 49. It was actually a three-point game at halftime. I watched it. A lot of players played. I was impressed with different players. But, man, it kind of just reminds me, I'll never forget being at the station one day. And Maryland beat somebody, you know, in a pretty good, you know, non-conference, you know, November

a game. It may have been like Michigan State or somebody when they were in the ACC. And Coach Thompson walked in as you and I were walking out, you know, over the studio. He would always be walking in or would be in the bullpen holding court as we walked out of our studio. And he said, boy, he goes, nothing means less than November, than college basketball results in November. And, you know, that was, and I said, well, certainly the they don't when you're playing St. Leo and Hawaii Hilo. And he just kind of laughed and he walked in. He said, trust me, doesn't mean anything.

And by the way, he's right because the sport changes so much, you know, between seasons with new players. And it takes time. But I'll never forget that because he was just waiting. Sometimes remember, he'd just be waiting for us to walk out of that studio. Oh, yeah. And he'd have something to say to either one of us. Yep. But yeah.

So, you know, it's a win. You know, they have not lost a home opener, Maryland since 1975. Did some kind of banner for that? I don't think you get a banner for that. But I think I remember that they lost to Notre Dame to open up the season in 1975. I'd have to go look that up, but I should have looked it up before the show.

But I bet I'm right about that. Maryland, 1975 basketball results. Maybe John Shoemate. Adrian Dantley. Yeah. 1975-76.

They home opener. Well, that that shows that they won that game. So let me go back to 74, 75. That shows they won that game. Maybe it was 76. Yeah, 1976.

They lost 80 to 79 at home on November 27th, 1976 against Notre Dame. There you go. That would not, I think Dantley would have already been gone. I think it would have been Tracy Jackson, may have been the star. He played a paint branch. Donald Duck Williams was probably on that Notre Dame team. Digger definitely coached that team. That was a Digger Lefty game. Maryland and Notre Dame with Digger and Lefty played every year for many years while the two of them were there. That was a given that they would play each other as a non-conference game. You know, Notre Dame, because they were an independent back then, they played UCLA twice a year. I don't know if you're remember that. Oh, they stopped the streak. They stopped the streak in 1974. Yep. Yes. They did. Tracy Jackson was not on that team, but Duck Williams was. So I had one of the players, correct.

The Wizards lost to the Warriors last night. Jaden was at the game with Bobby Wagner. And the rookies for this year, the three number one, the three first round picks all played well. George, Saar and Carrington, all played well. Yeah, they did. All right, do you have anything else? I have nothing else for you today, boss. All right. Back tomorrow, and if they make another trade,

we'll have a lot on that on tomorrow's show. All right, Tommy, talk to you on Thursday. Okay, boss.