The Kevin Sheehan Show - Mike Richman Talks Washington Football History

Episode Date: November 4, 2023

Kevin is joined by Washington football historian Mike Richman, who just released the book George Allen: A Football Life. They discuss Allen, and talk through major moments, players, personalities and more in Washington football history. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. So I'm putting this podcast out today. It's a part one of a two-part interview that I did with Mike Richmond. Mike's an author, longtime skin's historian.

He wrote a book about Joe Gibbs. He wrote the Redskins Encyclopedia. And the book that just came out this week that Mike authored is called George Allen, a football life. is the book about George Allen, the second greatest coach in franchise history after Joe Gibbs. And I believe the man responsible for creating the passion that really still exists today, lesser form than maybe 10 years ago because of what we've gone through as a fan base with Dan Snyder. But George Allen, when he arrived in 1971, the team was a popular team,

but it wasn't the sports entity in town that it became when George Allen got here and started to win. Mike has this book out. You can find the book anywhere you get a book. You can go to Mike Richmondjournalist.com to get a signed copy of the book. So for some of you, maybe not for all of you, but I think for some of you of you of a certain age, I think you'll enjoy kind of the story of George Allen, the stories that Mike told me. And because we ended up talking for a much longer period of time than I had anticipated, I'm splitting it up into two parts.

Part one today on Saturday, November 4th, and next Saturday on November 11th, I'll put the second part out. But I think you'll enjoy it. And I started off by asking Mike, if he agreed that George Allen is really the beginning of this passionate following that followed, you know, his arrival in D.C. in 71? Or did he think that the passion existed, you know, during the Sunny Jurgensen years, during the 60s when they were great offensively, but they didn't win? You know, Lombardi was here in 69, but really, I started off by asking him if he agrees with me that 71 was the beginning of Washington

Redskins, Washington Football Team, Washington Commanders Football, becoming the passion that it became. I do agree with that. In the 60s, as you know, right, they have the Sonny Durginson-led offensive explosion, and they start drawing, they start selling out at RFK Stadium as of 1966 because of that, for that very reason, they were so entertaining on offense. But it wasn't until Alan came here in 1971 and really turned them into a bona fide winner that that true

excitement really, really began that very first season in 1971. Now, Lombardi was here at 69, and they actually had a winning season, 7,5, and 2, but they weren't really much of a

threat that year. I mean, of course, they didn't go to the postseason. So it wasn't until Alan came here at 71. I mean, he set the franchise on course to really, I mean, the fans had a major taste of winning during the Allen era, and then it just, we had the interim with party, but then it, of course, just continued under Joe Gibbs. So, yes, an interesting question, I do agree with that.

He turned this town upside down in terms of, I mean, fans were going crazy. After the Redskins beat the Cowboys in 1971 to go 3-0 in his first season, 10,000 fans swarmed the tarmac. Well, many of them actually came on the tarmac at Dallas Airport to greet the team coming back from Dallas. Yeah. I mean, that would be unthinkable today because of the precautions that are taken at airports. But many, many fans, I mean, they wanted to greet the team and greet Alan.

And so you could tell me, this town was really longing for a winner, and Alan delivered. Yeah, I remember talking to Bruce when he was here, and he said, that was the first realization of how big it was. They beat the Cowboys in the Cotton Bowl and a rainstorm. And like you said, literally 10,000 people are waiting for them to return from Dallas that particular season. All right. So I want to begin with this. Tell me sort of the beginning of this book.

Is it George Allen's entire life? Is it George Allen's football life? Or is it George Allen in D.C.? It is George Allen's entire life. Okay. I wanted to write the definitive biography of George Allen. I went all the way back to his youth. He grew up in the Detroit area.

He grew up during the Great Depression. And I documented things about him that really, I mean, you can see traits in him at that point. We all know he had that workaholic nature as a coach. You know, he had to, it was detail, detail, details. I mean, he had to know everything about every opposing team. He had that characteristic in him as a kid. You know, he really, he was a hard worker. He had to work for the family, actually, because the father, he really didn't earn much at that time.

The mom, his mother didn't work. So George Allen really was, he was supporting the family in a large, way. So that type A personality in him that we really came to know later on down the road when he became one of the elite coaches in the league. I mean, that really started in his youth. So, yeah, I documented all of that, but from his youth, the colleges, he attended a series of colleges. He had to work his way through. He was in the Navy V-12 program during World War II. He actually got his first coaching opportunity coaching the 150-pound team at Michigan. which was his alma mater for his master's degree.

What did he get his master's in? Education. Okay. When he became a coach, that's why he was known so much as a teacher in practice. I mean, I know you've seen the films like 1971, three years for the rest. He's teaching in that practice, you know, the player, you know, positioning, details, details, details, you know, push a little bit up field. this. So he was a teacher

at heart. He got his master's in education. And actually, very interestingly, he wrote his master's thesis on scouting, scouting of football. He wrote a way to mostly college coaches at the time. But he also wrote to three

NFL coaches, Hallis, Brown, Paul Brown, and there was one other pro coach they wrote to. So he did his master's thesis in scouting. So he's born in 1918. Did he fight in World War II? He was not in any combat situation in World War II.

He never went overseas. His last stint in the Navy V-12 program, which was a way for members of the program to be trained in some type of officer capacity in the Navy if they were to go and fight. he never did, but he was in that Navy V-12 program in several different colleges. And I should say also one of the misnomer's about him, and, you know, mentioning 1918, a lot of people think that about him. He was actually born in 1917, and he was 73 years old at the time of his death. He kind of fabricated his age over the years.

He wanted to make himself seem a little younger, and for whatever reason, And he also, his wife told a story over the years that he was kind of embarrassed that it took him so long to get through college. So when they met at Morningside in Allen's first college coaching stint, he told, he wanted her to think that he was younger than he really was. Interesting. He was either listed as born in 1918, born in 1922. He was actually born in 1917. So he was 24 when we went into the war following Pearl Harbor. so he was a little bit old based on his real age to go over, right?

At that point, 24 years old, I mean, everybody eventually went, but at that point he was a little bit older than most of the average soldiers. He probably was, right? I think he still could have gone over. I don't know what the age cap was at the time, but I think he was well within that. But he was in that program. so he could be trained to eventually go over, but he never did.

And actually, one of the stories I told in the book is in his last stint in the Navy V-12 program, he was at Princeton University, and only George Allen could maybe think of doing this. George Allen was a really good chess player, okay? And Einstein was an adjunct professor at Princeton at the time. So one day, one Sunday morning after church, Alan and a buddy of his, they got on the bus and they went toward Einstein's home. And they trudged also, you know, getting off the bus, they trudged to the snow. They got to the door.

And, uh, Einstein's assistant comes down and, uh, in like a German accent. Uh, she, she was talking to them and, uh, and George Allen said, um, is a professor Einstein here? I'd really like to play him in chess. So, oh, so, uh, the woman, um, uh, the maid or wherever capacity, she, she, you invited them in the house, and then Einstein comes flying down the stairs, and George Allen says, a professor, I'd like to really challenge you to a game of chess. And then Einstein said, well, did you bring a board?

And Alan says, no, I forgot the board. And that was so uncharacteristic of George Allen, because he was so prepared. Preparation, yes. And I actually wrote that, wrote in the book, it was so antithetical. to the way George Allen would carry himself in life. He was not prepared for that. But, yeah, he did challenge, challenge Einstein. It was part of the moxie of George Allen.

So what happened? Did Albert Einstein bring a board down, and did they play? No, he didn't have a board. He actually, he wasn't a chess player. Oh, my God. He did not have a board either, so they didn't play. But one thing that Einstein is very interesting, as Alan and his buddy will leave in the house,

Einstein spread his arms and he went like, boom. Okay, so what he was saying was, and George Allen figured this out, you know, shortly after, because Einstein was signaling the atomic bomb, which Einstein was just going to say that, you know, many of us recently saw the movie Oppenheimer, and there is that visit to Einstein's house in New Jersey. I think it was in New Jersey at the time. I don't think it was in Germany, but I think it was in, in, Yeah, I think it was in, it would have been in, you're saying he was at Princeton at the time. He lived in New Jersey at the time.

Yeah. So Einstein was not, he wasn't directly involved in the project, but his theory of relativity was. Exactly. But anyway, so, so yeah, Einstein made this, this motion with his arms, boom. So, you know, he was actually signaling the atomic bomb. And George Allen didn't know it at the time. This was like, so this was around December 45. Mm-hmm.

So, and I'm sorry, no, it was, it was, um, it was, um, like January, January, February 45, so the bomb wouldn't, it didn't go off until the summer. But, yeah. So, I was just wondering. But, but wait, so Einstein just, as George Allen's there, he just, he makes a gesture like a bomb going off. Like, what, what, I mean, how would George Allen have known what he was talking about? He wouldn't have. Oh, he didn't know it at the time. But he remembers him doing that.

He remembers him doing that. He said it in an interview that he had with Steve. Steve Guback, the late Steve Guback, Washington star, the reporter of the Redskins in the 70s who later was Alan's spokesperson and press person when he chaired the President's Council of Physical Fitness. Guac gave me access to some really cool interviews that he had with George Allen over the years, and this is one of them. Alan told Gubeck that in later years after he finally figured out what Einstein had been talking about. He probably figured it out, you know, after the bomb was dropped. Right. That's what Einstein was referring to by, you know, with the thing, boom, and spreading his arms part, whatever.

But George Allen didn't know it exactly at the time. Yeah. What that gesture meant. That's crazy. He knew it, you know, after the bomb had been dropped. But like you said, I mean, the balls just to go up to his house and ring the doorbell and you knock on the door and say, hey, let's play chess. It's a science thing. Yeah.

It's Allen Seinfeldon came in chess. But that was George Allen. I mean, he had the nerve to do that. All right. So how does he, he's not an, was he an athlete? I know, he didn't play college sports, did he? Or am I wrong about that? You are not.

He did not play college. Oh, I'm sorry. He played intramuroes in college. He did not play under scholarship in any capacity or any varsity teams. but he did play intramural sports. He was actually a pretty good basketball player. And he was a three-way high school athlete. Okay.

He was track basketball and football. And this was in Detroit? In the Detroit area, yeah. Okay. All right, let's take a break, and then we'll get into George Allen, the coach, how he got into coaching, how he eventually made it to the Rams. We'll start to do that right after these words. from a few of our sponsors.

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86690 Nation or windownation.com. All right, so how does he get into coaching? He approached Prince Chrysler, who, was the head coach of Michigan at the time. This was around 1947. He said, coach, I'd like to, I'd like to be considered to be on your staff. And so Chrysler said, sorry, we don't have a spot for you right now. So again, this is another, the moxie of George Allen. He comes back to Chrysler a while later. He said an appointment, he got an appointment to speak to him again. So he comes back to him. He says, coach, listen, I'll pay you, if you, if you,

If you make me an assistant on your staff, so Christless says, Tim, no, you don't have to pay me, but you're going to be an assistant on our 150-pound team, which is just starting. There were four teams and then in the Big Ten that were in that league. It was called the 150-pound Midget League. So George Allen was an assistant on that 150-pound team. I think it was Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin, and one of the other Midwestern schools. So that was his very, very first starting coaching. His first head coaching position was at Morningside in 1948,

Morningside in Iowa, Sioux City, Iowa. Okay. And then he jumped from there to Whittier in the Los Angeles area. Right. Whittier was, I mean, we know about, that's when you just mentioned Whittier, I've certainly, I remember him coaching there. What was Whittier? Was that Division III college football?

What was it? It was a, what we would call today as a Division III program. I forgot how, I'd have to read up again on how they classified it, but it was not, it was what we would later define as Division III, yes. It was a very low-level program. And it was, and that was in the L.A. area. It was in Los Angeles area, yes. So how did he do?

He did well at both Morningside and, And Whittier, he had an above 500 record at both schools. And Whittier, he won the conference championship twice. He was a two-time winner of the conference championship. Interestingly, one of the coaches, or the coach that succeeded him was Don Correel at Whittier, who actually had a much better record than George Allen. And as I also documented in the book, Allen was basically forced out at Whittier. okay he the um you know board didn't like him the uh uh you know he was just he was doing a few

unethical things they didn't like you had to do with recruiting whatever the players were rebelling too they didn't like his style of offense it's kind of like three yards in a cloud or dust he was a defensive oriented coach even back then they didn't really like it they wanted him out they like they like the good old days you know like his predecessor um was a very offensive-oriented coach, and they wanted that, you know, the athletic department at the school wanted that type of system back. So they kind of forced him out. So where did he go from that? That's where Alan met Richard Nixon. He met Richard Nixon. He met Richard Nixon being a graduate of Whittier. Of course. So they knew each other then when he

was the football coach there? Because Nixon was such a sports fan. He was a huge sports fan. I think he was the most astute sports fan, whoever lived in the White House. I mean, he was just, you know, president in the White House. I, there was, as far as football, I mean, Nixon was really, really smart. I mean, this guy, he had such a deep memory for football. He could just, you know, tell you stories about football history, names, whatever. He knew Tony Guillory's name the player on the Los Angeles Rams who blocked a punt in that 67. that dramatic 67 win by the Rams over the Packers, which George Allen coached.

In later years, he knew who Tony Guillory was. So, yeah, but that's where Alan met Richard Nixon. They actually met at an NCAA banquet in the early 50s. They somehow came in contact there. Nixon knew that Allen was the head coach at Whittier, so he wanted to meet him. It's actually another story about Nixon and George Allen. They didn't meet when Alan first came to the the nation's capital in 1971.

And Nixon, of course, was his third year in the White House. That's not where they actually met. Right. They met when George Allen was the coach at Whittier, you're saying? Correct, yeah. Yeah, okay. But it made it easier for Nixon to suggest various plays that George might want to run in a playoff game

against the 49ers in 71. We'll get to that in a little bit. So where does he go from Whittier? How does he finally get to a big-time job in the NFL? He knew Sid Gilman. After being left or leaving Whittier, he got a job almost immediately with Los Angeles Rams as an assistant coach. He was actually their offensive ends coach, which is really, when you think of it, he was a defensive-oriented coach, but they hired him to coach their offensive ends.

And they still had, I think they had crazy legs. Crazy Lakes. Henry Hurts, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they were still on that team. They had, they had Van Brockland. He was on that team, I believe. I don't think they had traded him yet.

So they still had some of the big names from the Rams earlier in the 50s. Sort of their glory period for them. They actually made it to the NFL championship game in 55 under Gilman. So he knew Gilman because Alan was able to get into Gilman's summer coaching camps. Alan being the head coach at Whittier, he found a way to get into Gilman's camps. So Gilman knew him. And so Gilman hired him as an assistant in 1957. Got it.

That was his first, that was his entry into the NFL, basically. And was it then how much longer before he went to Chicago and worked for Hallis? He was, this was his first, actually his first firing by the Rams was after the 1957 season. for whatever reason they let him go. In my research, I could not find out exactly why. Was he a pain in the ass? Was he just, was there a shelf life? I mean, there clearly was when he became a head coach,

but was he that way as a young coach, too? I don't know exactly why he was let go, but he was. Come to think about it, why would a coach at that time, an assistant coach, leave without a job? Okay, it wasn't Alan's decision to lead. He had to have been let go. Right. he was let go at that point, and he was without a coaching job for a while.

He ran a car wash in Los Angeles. It was called the Rams car wash for some reason he was able to use their name. I'm sure he didn't ask for permission. He was also, he was selling golf clubs. He was selling those on commission. He was selling the big weighted footballs also. okay so he worked his way into the different um you know training sites of the NFL teams selling those those footballs and he got into the Bears camp and he there was a guy there who was on

the Bears staff that kind of felt bad for him he the two had struck up a conversation and so this person went to speak with Hallis about getting George Allen a job on their staff and so Halas eventually hired him heading into the 1959 season. Howliss initially brought him on as a spy to, because the Bears had a couple late season games against the Rams in

1958. So Hallis originally brought him on as a spy. Okay, to like, you know, to get information out of him approaching their games against the Rams. And then he hired him permanently as what was then known as the head talent scout

in 1959, which today would be the equivalent. of a general manager. All right. So when does he become the great defensive mind and defensive, you know, coordinator? He was, it was late in the 1962 season that Clark Shaughnessy left. Okay. He was, like, on the outs with Hallis, the two didn't get along. So he just walked out with like three games left in the 62 season.

So Hallis tapped George Allen to take. over for the remainder of the season as the head defensive coach or defensive coordinator. So then in January of 63, right after the team, January 63, Alan was named the head defensive coach. That's when he became, he started, he was an assistant on the staff as the defensive coordinator, but he was also the head talent scout at the time. And as you probably know, I mean, he drafted a number of Hall of Famers. as in that role.

He drafted Ditka in 1961. He drafted Sayers and Butkus in 1965, which is arguably the greatest, or one of the greatest drafts in NFL history. He also drafted a guy named Steve DeLong in that 65 draft in the first round. They had three first round picks that year. DeLong opted to play for the San Diego Chargers in the AFL. Right.

And he made like two Pro Bowls in his career. So if DeLong had decided to play for the Bears, that would have made that. that whole sequence totally insane in terms of what George Allen had pulled off. But even though, I mean, even still, I mean, Bucces and Sairs were first round, first ballot inductees into the Hall of Fame. I mean, I want to make sure. But I want to make sure I'm understanding this.

So you're saying that he was essentially the de facto GM while also being the defensive coordinator? No, he was, he was a G. Well, the head defensive coach was today what we would call the GM. Right. Back then it was called like the head defensive coach or it wasn't even called defensive coordinator or whatever or defensive assistant. So he had the job of coaching the defense or however you would describe it and also presided over the draft for the bears.

Yes, yes, I misunderstood what you said. Yes. He did preside over the draft. He was still the head talent scout. and he was the head defensive coach at the time. He held both of those roles from the beginning, from January of 63 through the end of the 1965 season when he left to coach the Rams in his first head coaching job.

I don't think, I would bet you that a lot of people don't know that, because that 1965 Bears draft with Sairs and Butkiss, you know, one and two, Hall of Famers and Dick Butkus, obviously just passed away, has often been called one of the greatest drafts in NFL history. And they had back then, I don't know, 16, 17, 18 rounds of the draft or whatever it was. So George Allen was responsible for picking But Kiss and Sayres. He was the head, the top eye for talent on that Bears team. And as I wrote, I mean, I was very careful about this.

you couldn't credit Allen entirely, but you had to think, hey, you know, they got Dick in 61. Of course, you know, a Hall of Famer today, they drafted Ronnie Bull in 62, who was the NFL rookie of the year. And back then, I mean, I think he rushed for only like 400 yards in his rookie season, but he was still the rookie of the year. So, I mean, that was a great draft pick. And then, but just as theirs in 65. So George Allen played a major role in the drafting of those players. And I should also say it's 65. He signed Brian Piccolo as a pre-agent.

Piccolo was the leading Russia in the country at Wake Forest. He was in 64. So, yeah, he got Brian Piccolo as a free agent. Wow. So, you know, they win the title in 63 with George Allen as the lead defensive guy. And then he gets the job, the head coaching job, his first NFL head coaching job, with the Rams in what? 1966? Correct.

Okay. That was his first year coached in the Rams? And was he very, was he one of these sought after guys because they were, those Bears' defenses were so good and, you know, they had won the title in 63? Oh, that's totally accurate. Yes. He was, he was a hot name. He was probably the hottest name on the coaching market after the 16th. 63 season. And by the way, I want to say Ed O'Bradovich, one of the Bears players who I was fortunate

enough to interview from that team, he totally credited Allen with the win in that 63 championship game over the Giants, and that whole 63 season. He gave complete credit to George Allen. And he was saying it was a total mystery to us why Hallis didn't hire him as the head coach at that point. Or why Hallis didn't even hire him as a head coach. head coach in any of the ensuing seasons. It was George Allen's time. I mean, it was just, everybody was just totally

confused. Why won't you promote George Allen? I mean, he... But wasn't Hallis still the head coach? Yes, he was still the head coach. Hallis would not relinquish the head coaching duty. He didn't relinquish them until, like, I think 67 was his last season.

But, you know, several years before that, Bradovich was telling me, It was time to put him out the pasture. I mean, he had been around long enough. And interestingly, in that 65 season, the Bears did finish 9 and 5. They didn't make the postseason that year. And that was Allen last year with the Bears. But they wanted Allen as their head coach.

And so, yeah, he was highly sought after that 63 championship game. And then Dan Reeves, the Rams owner, hired him after the 65 season, which is another, that whole sequence. in terms of his hiring by the Rams, Hallis took him to court because he believes that Alan was in breach of contract because he had committed to taking the Rams job. Right.

And there was a stipulation in Allen's Bair's contract saying that he held a secret, he had secretive knowledge, like he knew all the secrets are very important knowledge. I forgot the exact wording. Right. But there's this wording in the contract. And that by going to another team, he could, you know, somehow word could get out about the Bears, you know, secrets about the Bears.

Right. So Hallis took him to court for breach of contract. And Hallis actually won the case. But then he said to the judge, listen, that's it. You know, I proved my point. I won in principle. George Allen is free to go anywhere he wants. How could you, in the NFL, prevent somebody from leaving for a better job and claim that, like,

he's got proprietary information about your organization that he's going to use to defeat him. That's silly now, right? I think it was totally crazy. I think there was a jealousy on the part of Hallis. Yeah. I think that he just didn't want to let Alan go. And also, you know, he thought he could maybe, you know, he could squeeze out a few more really good seasons with him. But it was time for Alan to have a head coaching job.

I mean, I believe he was 46 years old at the time. I mean, he, you know, it was his time. And so, yeah, I mean, he got his first head coaching position, 66 with the Rams. And he inherited a pretty good players, but they were actually a very mediocre to bad team. Just kind of the same way the Redskins were when he inherited them or when he started coaching them in 71. So, all right, we want to get to Washington here soon, but he was incredibly successful with the Rams as a head coach. just for everybody, George Allen never had a losing season as a head coach in his, however many years he was a head coach. How many years was he a head coach, Mike?

He was a head coach for 12 years in the NFL, and then he was a head coach for two seasons in the USFL. So in those 14 seasons, he never had a losing season. I mean, that is phenomenal. Incredible. Incredible. Yes. I think that was one of its downfalls, actually, but I'll get to that later. We can talk about. tell me about the Rams. Those Rams teams were better overall than his Redskins teams. And in fact, I think the 67 Rams team that he coached was his best overall team. That team finished 11-1-2, went to the playoffs, lost to the Packers in the first round of the playoffs.

And back in those days, I mean, you alternated sites for the host city. Right. Even though the Packers finished 9-4 and 1 that season and the Rams were 11-1 and 2, the Rams had to go to Green Bay to play them. Oh, man. But I don't even know if they would have beaten them in L.A. because the Rams were coming off two emotionally draining wins. They beat the Packers in the next to last game of the 67 season on that Tony Guillory blocked a punt

and then ensuing touchdown in the waiting seconds. And then they beat the Baltimore Colts. And this, I have to mention. So the Colts also finished 11, 1, and 2 that season and did not even go to the playoffs that year. Oh, my God. Can you imagine that? Why? Well, I mean, I know that there wasn't a wild card at that point, but I mean, were the Rams and the Colts in the same division?

They were in the same division. They somehow put the Colts in the coastal division. What was the division the Redskins were in? It wasn't the East. What was that called? Whatever. It's escaping right now. It's fine.

Was it the Atlantic? So the Rams? the Rams and the Colts, you're saying, played, what did you say they played the last game of the year? So it essentially was for a playoff berth. Exactly, yes. That was to decide who would go to the playoffs. They were four playoff teams.

There were four divisions. So it wasn't like seven teams from each conference going to the playoffs in these, you know, in today. I mean, back there was four teams total that went to the playoffs. And so the Rams, and Colts played the last regular season game that year. They played in L.A. The Rams crushed them that day.

I mean, and the fearsome, for some, that was probably their best game. I mean, they sacked Johnny Unitas like probably seven times that day. I mean, they just dominated that game. So that 11-1-2 Colts team did not go to the playoffs. That's crazy. The Rams went, and they lost to the Packers in the first round of the past. I think, though, that was George Allen's best. coat, that was his best season overall, and his best team. And that fearsome, foresome,

they were, first of all, he got Roger Brown that year. Rosie Greer had a torn Achilles tendon in the preseason. So this was George Allen. He got Roger Brown, the great defensive lineman from the Detroit Lions. It's like he had him on his rolodex. He knew he was available right away. He got him. Brown filled in for Greer. The fearsome fourths kept rolling along. Deacon Jones had a great season, and Merlin Olson. Right. Yeah, they were so intimidating, so dominant. By the way, I just pulled up the 67 season.

Washington was in the Capital Division, it was called. Capital. And they went 5, 6, and 3. But this is what's so crazy about the NFL back then. Like you said, the Rams and the Colts both finished 11, 1, and 2 in the same division. And the Colts didn't go to the postseason, but the Packers at 9, 4, and 1, and the Browns at 9 and 5, and the Cowboys at 9 and 5 did.

And then beyond that, the team with the best record in the NFL by far had to play at Lambo in the 67 first round. They lost 28 to 7. And then what followed was the infamous Ice Bowl game between the Packers and the Cowboys a week later. And the Packers won that game, went on to beat the Raiders in Super Bowl 2, which was, of course, Lombardi's last. game in Green Bay. So you think that 67 Rams team, Roman Gabriel was the quarterback, I'm assuming, right?

Right. He was the quarterback, and he was on his way to becoming, I wouldn't say that he was ever, well, he was an elite quarterback by 69, but he was on his way to reaching that level. He was a really, really good quarterback for that era. Also, the Rams had a receiver back. then named Bernie Casey, who Allen had acquired before the 67 season.

The referee, the guy that became... Oh, he was an actor? Oh, I was thinking of the referee. No. He was actually an actor in Brian's song, and then later he had a nice Hollywood career. But he was... But Alan had acquired him before the season. He was a really good receiver. We talked about the fearsome for some. And there were other great players on the deep. It's Ed Meador. The safety... Yeah, so, and they had really solid players on offense, Roman Gabriel being one of them. So they were, that was a very, very good team.

I think that, that team was better than the 72 Redskins that went to Super Bowl 7. I think that, yeah, I'm not saying it would have been any closer if that playoff game had been in L.A., but it's just the way it was set up back then that the 11-1-2 Rams had to go. on the road to play the 9-4-1 Packers. Right. So in L.A., I'm looking it up right now. He went to the playoffs in two of his five seasons, even though his records were 8 and 6, 11-1-2,

10-3 and 1, 11-3 and 9-4-1 in his final year. And he didn't win. In 69, again, by the way, with a better record, 11 and 3, he had to, oh, no, no, Minnesota had a better record. But he had to play a playoff game in Minnesota, I'm sure, just like Lambo, was probably frigid, and they lost 23 to 20. So there he was as a head coach already kind of starting that process of not getting it done in the postseason.

But they didn't know that at that time. There was nothing too. Well, he wasn't, I don't think that the pressure, I mean, of course the pressure was there, but I don't think he had been labeled a coach yet who couldn't win the big one. Right. Maybe even a few whispers here and there. But in 71, he lost the 49ers in the first round of the playoffs. So he had to win that first round playoff game against the Packers in 72.

And then, of course, he beat the Cowboys in the NFC championship game the following week to go to Super Bowl 7. But getting back to that 69 Rams team, I also want to say that team started out 11-0 and lost its last three regular season games, and then went into that first round playoff game against the Vikings that you referred to and lost. But they lost a lot of their momentum toward the end of that season. And one of the criticisms of George Allen's teams over the years is that his players were burned out toward the end. I don't think that was totally a situation where he wasn't playing the start. starters, you know, toward the end of that regular season. But his players would say over the years, they were kind of burned out toward the end.

Merlin Olson said it. So, which is, you know, I think a reason why he didn't perform well in the playoffs. He lost in the first round of the playoffs four times in Washington. So, like in L.A. and four times in the L.C. I've always felt there's a lot of similarities between George Allen and Marty. Schottenheimer in particular. They really rode their teams very hard. They were tough, old school coaches, and neither one of them had the playoff success that they had in the regular season. So let's just go back to the last year in L.A. is his fifth year in L.A. It's 1970. They go

9-4-1. His record in five years as the Rams head coach, people, 49, 17. and four. There was no overtime back then. That's why they had all those ties. And so how, why did it come to an end in L.A.? He and Reeves were at each other's throats. Actually, the end of the 1970 season is the second time that Reeves fired him. Weaves fired him after the 68 season. And this is after three winning seasons and in the two great records in 67 and 68. Reeves fired him after the 68 season. He couldn't stand George Allen's ways. George Allen was on the phone all the time.

He was running up phone bills, spending big bucks for veteran players. And back then, it was a lot of money that he had the authorization to do that. Reeves ran the scouting department, and he handled the draft. George Allen was doing the active – he was in charge of active players. So Reeves couldn't stand that. The two didn't talk that much. I also think Reeves was a bit jealous of George Allen, too, because George Allen was getting all the, he was in the spotlight.

He was getting the fame. So Reeves was jealous of that. Reeves fired him after the 68 season. And in one of the surreal events in George Allen's life, and there were several, George Allen called a press conference after the 68 season. and 20 of his veteran RAM players showed up at the press conference. Merlin Olson, Jones, Meador, there were about 20 players there,

and they said, basically, they were all veteran players. They said, Dan Reeves, if you don't rehire George Allen, we're quitting. So several weeks later, Reeves rehired him. Now, Reeves would say I didn't rehire him because of, you know, I wasn't influenced by the players in any way, but I'm sure that had something to do with it. And then, you know, two years later, we fired him for the second time after the 70 season. But that was still after Allen had that remarkable record, which you just referred to. Why would you fire a coach at that point, even though he hadn't won a Super Bowl?

So Edward Bennett Williams really, he wanted it badly. Jack Hancock wanted him badly. Those two had actually tried to get Alan after he was fired the first time following the 68 season. So after the 70 season, they really went hard after him. And they signed him. Cook was actually, he was still living in Los Angeles. He was on the Lakers and the King. Right. But he was getting, he was building up enough interest in the team to where he was close to to being the majority owner. He had the most influence among the owners. But he let Williams run the daily operations of the team. It was just the way the league was set up at the time.

Yeah. Because of its cross-ownership rules, which, you know, you flip forward to today. And Josh Harris, I mean, he has these interests in other teams and other leagues, but I guess the cross-ownership rules don't exist. But, so they got him, both Cook and Edward Bennett Williams got him after

the 70 season, and he was hired in D.C. at that point. We're talking to Mike Richmond about his book on George Allen, the legendary coach, Hall of Fame coach. We'll get to George and why and how he got to

Washington right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Why Washington? You mentioned the Cook Connection, but why Washington? I would imagine that he was sought after by a lot of teams. Yeah, well, the Eagles were one team that wanted him after the 70s season. I think it was because they offered him the most lucrative contract. And he also wanted to be in the Washington area. I mean, for education purposes, I mean, his kids,

two of whom were still in high school at the time. So, you know, he wanted it for that reason, too. But they alert him to D.C., I mean, he had built a friendship with Jack Kent Cook, too. That's part of the reason why he chose D.C. I mean, the two became friends when Alan was in L.A., Allen would visit Cook's Ranch in the Sierra Nevada Mountains in California. So the two became pretty good friends and Cook got him tickets to Lakers, Alan and his family tickets to Lakers and King's games. So that is a major reason, too, why he chose Washington.

But I'm sure he loved the lucrative offer. I mean, $125,000 a year over seven years. So now also, there was something called a stock option at the time. Yeah. And it was not what the Washington Post reported, I never saw the contract, I never got my hands on it, but what the Washington Post reported is that the stock option was not actually part of the contract. It was something that Cook had written to Allen about in a separate letter. It was like some type of an offer, but Alan never took advantage of it.

So in later years, when he and Edward Bennett Williams were negotiating a contract extension, that stock option was never included in the extension, which Alan did not like and is a reason that he wanted to part ways with the Redskins after the 77 season. Yeah, I think Len Shapiro, who I had on a while back, it was, you know, as Snyder's era was coming to an end, he kind of talked about that. Now, you know, it was a stock option, obviously, for equity in the team. and, you know, if he had held on to that for a long period of time, it would have been worth a lot of money.

So he gets full control, right? When he gets the job in D.C., part of that is this is his show. He's the general manager and he's the head coach. This is, as Ron, you know, as we referred to it when Ron got hired, this is coach-centric. He doesn't have, you know, a personnel guy. That's absolutely correct. He was hired as the head coach and the general manager. He had full authority to do whatever he wanted with that team. Build it however he wanted, player personnel, the draft. Yeah, it was his show. Edward Ben Williams gave him complete rope to do what he wanted. And one of Allen's first projects was Redskins Park. Yeah. And as you know the saying at the Redskins welcome home lunch in that year,

Williams quipped, I gave him an unlimited budget and he exceeded it. Well, that was in reference to, in large part, to Redskins Park. Although Alan had acquired a lot of veteran players up to that point. But he spent a lot of money of what would then be considered a lot of money for Redskins Park, I think was like $500,000. Why did he pick way out in northern Virginia? He wanted to be away from the city. He didn't want the players to be distracted by anything in D.C.,

because their offices were at the time on Connecticut Avenue, and they practiced by RFK Stadium in Anacostia. He didn't want players to be distracted by anything in the city. He just wanted to be far away. He loved the, you know, back then, I mean, it was horse country. Yeah, right. But there was nothing out there. Yeah.

It was just Ellis Airport. That was the only, I guess, major site that was in, you know, proximity to where they were in Chantilly. But that's why he chose Rescott Park. It was isolated, and he had, you know, trees surrounding the practice facility. And, you know, George Allen being George Allen, he named the trees, by the way. He named the trees. What did he name him? Hickory oak or something.

But he gave them, he had a love for. nature actually. So he named the trees. The book is George Allen, a football life. The author is Mike Richmond. You can get a signed copy of the book at Mike Richmond Journalist.com. Next week, part two of my conversation with Mike. George Allen arrives in 1971, and he begins to win immediately. Three cheers for the rest. It's hip-hip. Let's have three more. Right! Three chairs for the rancans. Hit hip!

Hi! Hit him! Hi!