The Kevin Sheehan Show - Minnesota Eyeing Washington's #2?

Episode Date: March 16, 2024

Kevin opened the show with a couple of NFL trades today including Minnesota trading up into the first round with perhaps an ultimate goal of trading up further into the top 3. Will Washington's #2 overall be the goal for the Vikings? Kevin had Nicki Jhabvala/Washington Post on the show to talk Commanders' free agency and draft plans. Kevin finished with Aaron Donald's retirement and the end of Maryland's disappointing basketball season. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, I'm really pleased to have a new sponsor to the podcast. Prize picks is the largest daily fantasy sports platform in North America. They're the easiest and the most exciting way to play DFS. It's just you against the numbers rather than you battling thousands of other players, including pros and sharks. Football season's over, but Hoops action is heating up, whether it's tournament season right through the end of this month or the fight for playoff home court advantage heading. into the postseason, there's no shortage of high-stakes basketball moments this time of year. Get in on the excitement with prize picks, America's number one fantasy sports app where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code Sheehan, S-H-E-E-H-A-N for a first deposit match of up to $100. You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The presenting sponsor of this show is Windonation.

Call them at 86690 Nation or head to windonation.com. Mention my name, Kevin Sheehan, and you'll get a free, no-risk in-home estimate. One guest on the show today, Nikki Javala will be with us in the next segment. Of course, Nikki covers the team for the Washington Post. As I am sitting down to record this podcast, there is breaking NFL news. the Steelers are trading Kenny Pickett to the Philadelphia Eagles. We mentioned on yesterday's show that the Eagles really don't have a backup quarterback right now

after Marcus Mariotas signed the deal here in Washington. They've got Tanner McKee, the guy that had played for Stanford, but they didn't have a legitimate known backup quarterback. Well, now they do. Kenny Pickett goes to Philadelphia from Pittsburgh with a fourth round pick. The Steelers are also sending this year's fourth round pick number 120 overall. And they're getting back from Philadelphia.

Philadelphia's third round pick, 98 overall, and two seventh round picks. So the math on this, and the math was going to be part of the conversation here in the opening segment as it relates to the Sam Haltrade. But essentially, the Steelers are losing in trading Kenny Pickett. I'm sorry, they're gaining 22 spots from the fourth round at 120 up to 98 in the third round. And they're also picking up two seventh rounders. Now, when you look at the traditional Jimmy Johnson charter, the pro football reference chart, or the draft tech chart, some of the charts that have been around for a while, you're basically looking at, you know, Kenny Pickett went to the Eagles for a fourth round pick, roughly,

you know, somewhere in the fourth round. Now, that would be pretty close to the Sam Howl trade. In fact, Schaefter tweets out with this news, it's similar value to what Washington got for Sam Hal. Now, let me just add that Sam Howell's salaries over the next two. years are lower than Kenny Pickett's. Kenny Pickett was a first round pick. So the salaries for even the rookie wage scale salaries and the salary cap number will be higher, making Sam more attractive from a compensation standpoint. But at the same time, the Eagles will have a fifth year option on Kenny Pickett, and the Seahawks don't have that

on Sam Howell. But the Eagles now have a backup quarter. and Kenny Pickett, I actually thought that there were times watching Pickett that it looked like he could do it in Pittsburgh. According to a couple of the stories that I've just quickly read on this trade, Pickett was okay at first with the Steelers pursuing a veteran quarterback, but when they brought Russell Wilson into the team, apparently his attitude changed. and so Pittsburgh was willing to move on from Kenny Pickett. Now, to me, doesn't that mean that Pittsburgh's got to be in the market for a quarterback? And maybe now Justin Fields to Pittsburgh makes more sense.

And you've got Russ in Justin Fields, you have him battle it out. I don't know what they told Russell Wilson in terms of what he was going to be there. They had Kenny Pickett on the roster when he got there. But maybe it makes sense for Fields to Pittsburgh now. I don't know. I'll tell you this. That 2022 draft, all right, the 2022 draft, which Sam Howell was a part of and Kenny Pickett was a part of. All right. Kenny Pickett, here it is. Kenny Pickett, the 22 quarterbacks. Let me just click on quarterbacks. Kenny Pickett, all right, 20th overall to Pittsburgh, he's been traded. Desmond Ritter was the next quarterback taken in the third round traded. If you missed that, he got dealt to Arizona. For Ron Dale Moore, I think Moore is a weapon.

I don't know if he was used improperly in Arizona. Arizona, to me, Rondell Moore for Desmond Ritter, I think Atlanta got the better of that deal. I was not a Ritter guy coming out. Malik Willis, I was actually a believer in Willis's ceiling, but I did not know what his floor would be. I thought it was pretty low, too. He was that next quarterback in the 2022 draft,

taken at 86 overall in the third round. He is still on his team's roster in Tennessee. But Tennessee has added, right? They just added a quarterback. In addition to Will Levis, they also just added Mason Rudolph. Right. So Malik Willis is the third quarterback in Tennessee. Matt Corral is no longer in the league.

He was taken in the third round. Bailey Zappy was taken in the fourth round. He is actually still in New England, and then Sam Hal was taken in the fifth round, and Sam Hal was traded. Man, not a very good 2022 quarterback class as it stands now. You never know, though, right? You just never know. quarterbacks tend to have second and third chances and potentially resurrections to their career.

So I wanted to mention all of these draft value charts. I talked about Sam Howe's value yesterday being the equivalent of a late third, early fourth round pick based on the traditional draft value charts. But so many of you sent me links to different charts that reflected that it was more of a fifth round value, a sixth round value. There were actually two draft value charts that reflected seventh round value for Sam Hal. Now, that doesn't make any sense to me at all. I mean, how do you go from fourth and sixth improving a fourth and a sixth to a third and a fifth,

and the net of it is a seventh round value? That doesn't make any sense at all. A sixth round doesn't make any sense at all. A fifth rounder, for that matter, really doesn't make that much sense. Whatever draft value chart you use, it really doesn't matter because according to Ben Standing, four teams were inquiring and actually in a bidding for Sam Howell services. So it really doesn't matter in terms of trying to evaluate the trade using a draft value chart to sort of assess how Adam Peters and company did.

You just have to trust that with four teams interested, they took the best deal. And the market dictated what that deal was, which was a swapping of a fourth and a sixth for a third and a fifth. And, you know, that leaves Washington in a really good position in terms of draft choices, right? Six of them now in the top 100, first time in franchise history in the Modern era of NFL football that this franchise has had six draft picks in the top 100. They have number two overall.

They've got two number twos, and now they have three number threes. They don't have a fourth rounder. They have two fifths and a seventh after night two at a draft. Man, those first two nights of the draft, assuming that they have all six of these picks and they don't wheel and deal, who knows, maybe they wheel and deal for more picks. but man, they've got a lot of dry powder in terms of picks to be able to move, not just into the first round or back in the first round or up in the second round. If there are players that they really like, they've got the ability to maneuver a little bit.

But six picks in the first two nights, I mean, we're on the board immediately on night one of the draft. And on night two, we're up pretty quickly as well with number 36 and number 40. And then we get number 67, 78, and 100. That Thursday night and Friday night will be busy, really busy. Anyway, yeah, the draft value chart actually is irrelevant at this point. Because if true, and I believe Ben is reporting is typically spot on, there were four teams looking at Sam Howell, then they got the market price. See, these draft value charts are, you know, I had Randy Mueller, the longtime NFL GM on the radio show today, and he talked about, he said every team's basically kind of got their own draft value chart.

But once you have more than one team, especially if you've got multiple teams like three or four, it doesn't matter. You're going to end up with what the market says that player's worth. And what the market said Sam Howell was worth is somewhere in the neighborhood of let's just call. a fourth round pick. You know, a day later, I'm fine with this. I'm totally fine with this. I know that I had said, and yesterday was an odd day because we had recorded the podcast and then I went back and re-recorded an opening after the news that Sam Hal had been traded. But during the original recording with Tommy, I had said something to the effect of, I don't want to trade Sam Hal. I think you need three. And Marcus Mariotta is a mercenary. He's going to be here probably a year,

and then they're going to have a need for a backup quarterback in 2025, and Sam will still be on the most inexpensive rookie deal. Now, what I also said was, if you get a third rounder or something like a third round, fourth round pick, that's fine. And I'm totally fine with what they did. And I also, if I didn't emphasize this enough yesterday, it's a really good opportunity for Sam Howell. That's a good place for him to go to.

John Schneider, the general manager, actually said, and I listened to some of him on a show where he was talking specifically about the deal. The net of it was, he kept saying over and over again, it was Scott McLuhan-esque. Sam Howell's a football player. You know what? That's a great description of Sam Hal. You know, he's a football player. He's tough. He is resilient.

He gets knocked around and he keeps getting up. You know, he did specifically say that Sam's a competitor and Sam's going to come in and compete, but that Gino Smith is the starter and that Sam Hal's going to be the backup. But you don't know how long Gino Smith will be there. Sam Hal's going to get opportunities. And you know what? In a preseason game in August, Seattle fans are going to do what Washington fans did at some point. They're going to say, whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

What are we doing here? That kid should be starting. That'll happen during the preseason at some point. The net of Sam Hal for me has been and still is. Gamer, tough kid, a backup quarterback in the NFL. Somewhere between 33 and 44 in terms of the best quarterbacks, the best 44 quarterbacks on the planet. That's where he is.

That puts him in the abys. absolute backup NFL quarterback and a higher-ended backup NFL quarterback. And when you're talking about guys like that, you're talking about guys that in a pinch can start a game here or there and not hurt you. I think he's Colt McCoy. I really do. This from Jason. Kevin, why Marioita over Jacoby Brissette?

I'd much rather have Brissette in the last. locker room and on the field if need be. Yeah, I think I would too, but that's not their choice. Jacoby Brissette was an unrestricted free agent. Alex Van Pelt was the offensive coordinator, or is the offensive coordinator in New England as part of that new staff. He came from Cleveland. He coached Jacoby Brissette in Cleveland. So Brissette had the choice. He also ended up with a slightly bigger contract than Marcus Marriota. I don't know that Adam Peters didn't reach out for Jacoby Brissette, you know, and Jacoby Brissette's agent. Maybe they wanted Jacoby Brissette. We did hear that they were interested in Sam Darnold. Darnold caught a one-year $10 million deal in Minnesota. I don't

think Washington was looking to pay Sam Darnold that kind of money. But yeah, no, I'm with you. I actually would have felt better about Brissette being here. as well, but it's, you know, it's a two-way street. Brissette has to want to be here as an unrestricted free agent, and he's reunited with the offensive coordinator he was with in Cleveland. He's also going back to the team that drafted him. So there is that as well. So I wanted to real quickly touch on a few things that happened post-recording of the podcast

yesterday that were Washington-specific, and then talk about another trade that happened today that actually could ultimately involve Washington. But Cameron Curl, Kendall Fuller, and Curtis Samuel all found new homes last night. Fuller to Miami, two years, 16 million. Ooh. Cameron Curl, two years, 13 million. Ouch. Curtis Samuel, Buffalo, three years, 24 million.

I love the fit for Curtis Samuel with Josh Allen Diggs and Company in Buffalo. Fuller in Miami. I think Fuller is a decent player. The Cameron Curl thing is the interesting thing. Two years, $13 million. They signed Jeremy Chin one year $5 million, right? Somewhere around $5, $5.5.5 million, whatever it was. I think Cameron Curl is a good player. But it is interesting, the journey of Cameron Curl conversation over the last year to year and a half,

especially the last year. They better sign him to a long-term contract extension. Will the sale prevent them from doing the thing they got to do with Cameron Curl, which is sign him to a long-term deal so he doesn't become an unrestricted free agent? And we're forced to tag him to keep him. Obviously, you know, things changed. Cameron Curl didn't have that kind of a season. Tough year for safeties and free agency, so many of them.

Same with receivers as well because of all of the receivers. in the draft. That probably hurt and depressed Curtis Samuel's market a bit. But Cameron Curl can play. I mean, he's a good player, and this kind of deal, I'm sure, on many levels, is disappointing based on probably what his agent was telling him a year ago. But Cameron Curl can play, and I bet you that two years from now, there's a much bigger deal that he gets access to. Is he elite? Is he a big-time playmaker? No, but he's a good, safety. I think we got carried away with the conversation about him being so good that, you know, we got to sign him to a contract extension now, can't let him hit the market or we'll be

forced to franchise tag him, carried away from that standpoint. And I think, you know, it's gone the other way where we're carried away. It's like, oh, my God. I mean, the fans that thought Cameron Curl was so good. Look at how foolish they look. Well, the truth is, most fans thought Cameron Curl was pretty good, not just because he was a seventh round pick and overachieve that status or that draft position, but because he played well and he was versatile as a player. All right, there's one other thing that I wanted to touch on before we get to Nikki Javala. There was a trade earlier today, Minnesota and Houston. The Vikings traded up into the late portion of the first round, actually number 23 overall.

They get the Texans first round pick number 23 overall, and they had to give up their second round pick in this year's draft, which is number 42. Their second round pick in 2025, and a sixth round pick in this draft as well. They also get back from Houston, a seventh rounder. So basically, they moved up 19 spots from number 42 to number 23 into the first round, and they did so for, I think, obvious reasons. at this point. Most NFL fans, most NFL pundits, believe that the Vikings after losing cousins on Monday to Atlanta are in the market to draft a quarterback. And they want as much, you know, dry powder, as many first round picks. And that second first round pick will be crucial in being able to move up from where they are right now at 11 to another spot. Let's start with them thinking big.

number two overall, Washington, number three overall, New England, number four overall, Arizona, number five overall, the Chargers, perhaps number six overall, the Giants, seven overall, Tennessee, eight overall, Atlanta, you know, now you get into, you know, Chicago currently holds the ninth pick and the Jets hold number 10. Are they going to be looking for quarterbacks? Probably not. But Minnesota wants to move up to take a quarterback. You know, I don't know which quarterback that is. Maybe they only want to move up to number six to ensure that they get J.J. McCarthy. Maybe they just want to move up to number five or number four to make sure they get J.J. McCarthy.

Or if their board has Caleb, Jaden, and Drake May separated from the next three, McCarthy, Pennix, and Nicks, maybe they need to trade up to number three or to number two. And they're sitting there with 11 and 23. And let me just tell you, to move from 11 to 2, Washington would get at the very least, and this is only if there's one team looking at jumping up to number two overall. And we know that that may not be true. You know, it's very possible that a team, you know, like the Broncos or the Raiders, are going to be looking to move up into the top three as well.

But to move from 11 to 2, that is worth the number 23 pick, another first round pick this year, and a first rounder next year, minimum, minimum. With real competition, you might end up with Minnesota's, two ones, they're one next year, and maybe a one the following year, or maybe a two next year. Would you take a shot at moving back to 11? These are a lot of the conversations that are going to be had. You know, the draft upcoming for Washington at number two overall is so much different than the 2012 draft or the 2020 draft. In 2012, we knew it was going to be RG3. In 2020, we knew it was going to be RG3. In 2020, we knew it was going to be Chase Young.

You know, we had a pretty strong suspicion it was going to be Chase Young. Number two in 2024 is a mystery, and it's going to be fun. And there are going to be a lot of these conversations. Now, would I do it? No, I'm staying at two in taking Daniels or May or the quarterback that I believe, you know, has the highest upside. You know, a quarterback that I have fallen in love with, that has to be the case. I don't want them taking a quarterback that they're not in love with. But I think Daniels May, Pennix, Jr., personally, would be my number three, or my number four before May.

Again, I don't have a problem with May. If that's who they fall in love with, I will trust them. Benefit of the Doubt, Kev. But I think that there's going to be a lot of conversations. And, you know, this group, because they are process-oriented, they're meticulous, they are all years, they contemplate everything. They go through every single possibility and play it out in several different ways.

They'll listen to everybody. This isn't going to be a group that says, no, we're not interested in moving back. They're going to listen to everybody. And there could be a bidding war for number two or number three. There could be. I mean, you know, you could end up getting a massive haul, but I am not putting at risk, the quarterback that I love.

for a massive hall that I would look back on and say, yeah, that massive hall ended up being not even close to what Minnesota got with number two in Jaden Daniels or in Drake May or in J.J. McCarthy or Michael Panics, whatever. I still think the best odds are they pick a quarterback at number two, but that trade tells you that Minnesota is going to be aggressive in the moving up market. You know, they didn't get move up into the first round when they, if they think they can get their guy at number 11.

Nikki Javala next after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation. March is the perfect time of the year to think about new windows. And I would think about new windows if your windows are older windows, 10 years of age or older. If your windows are cracked, if they leak, if they're hard to open or hard to lock when you close them, you need new windows. And Windonation is offering a buy-to get-to free opportunity right now with no limit, with no money down, no payments, and no interest for two full years. I've been endorsing Windonation for 15 years now.

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Jumping on with us right now. Nikki Javala from the Washington Post. Nikki does a great job covering the team for the Post. Has for several years now. You can follow Nikki on Twitter on X. At Nikki Javala. That's Nikki with an I. And then the last name is spelled J-H-A-B-V-A-L-A.

Nikki is with us right now. Nikki is from a family of fans. Longtime fans of the team. Nicky's a tar heel as well. Are you heading to the ACC semifinals downtown tonight to see North Carolina and Pitt, a classic ACC matchup, North Carolina and Pitt? I wish I could, but I am not. I had earlier plans, so I cannot.

But I'll be rooting from afar. But did you understand the sarcasm there? Like, you know, that just drives me crazy. As a Maryland guy, it's like North Carolina pit in the ACC tournament semifinals. It's ridiculous. It is ridiculous. The conferences in the NCAA anymore are just ridiculous. Yeah, and it gets much worse next year when we play Oregon and USC in football conference games.

That's first. There's that word Atlantic coast. You know, like, whatever. All right, let's talk. Let's talk some football. I wanted to start with this. As the post reporter, and you've done this in other big markets and big newspapers before, but you get a sense of the people, maybe more so than even a lot of us do.

What's changed organizationally since January that you can tell? The big thing that I've noticed is it seems like they have a plan. It doesn't feel like they're winging it. And I mean that no disrespect to the previous regime or Ron Rivera. but it's very clear that they went into this offseason. You know, the type of player they wanted, knowing what scheme they wanted, obviously, and they've been methodical about it. You know, they said they want to build through a draft,

and I know everybody says that, and we want to have an explosive offense, because, of course, who doesn't. But, you know, the guys they've signed in free agency, and there's been a lot of them. I think it's 17 total, including their three own guys. It's been all sort of that second tier type of talent where you're not breaking the bank for anybody, though they could because they have the cap space,

but they're purposely going after these veterans who are still quality players but are also known for the leadership. And they sign them to really team-friendly one, two-year deals purposely to help develop younger players and sort of lay a foundation for the future. So, I mean, this is, it's good to see them, you know, go after guys that, you know, address the number of concerns, not just positionally, but, you know, just in, I hate using the word culture anymore, but I'm going to, you know, just in everything they need over there. And frankly, it's good to see them just clear it all out. It's, to me, that's been long overdue. Like, I never want anybody to lose their jobs, but they need a full-on rebuild here. and they are doing that. Yeah, you know, it's funny.

I talked about yesterday and the day before that, you know, a lot of fans are caught up in the frenzy of the last four days, and there's a lot of excitement. It feels very different. But the truth is, if you go back and read some of what was written and some of what was said four years ago this month, it was very similar. You know, culture. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And we just... That's why I always hold out for it. Sorry to cut you off, but it's like I always, you know, this is the happiest time of year, you know. Everybody is so excited about their moves. Every new guy is sort of the savior and everything this team needed for years. And it all looks good on paper. I thought the secondary last year looked great on paper.

We saw how that ended. Right. I mean, the NFL really is, of all of the major, four sports, the four major pro sports. It is the absolute most difficult to predict year and year out. It just changes so much. And what looks good in March, I mean, I don't know one person that thought the defense wouldn't be at least good last year, if not much better than good. It was the worst part of the team. And it may go down as one of the worst defenses in franchise history. And it's not because like they were ravaged with injuries. They

just played poorly. And they didn't lack talent. You're right. They just played poorly. I thought they were coached poorly. There was no development. There was no cohesion. There was no disguising on the back end.

It was, I mean, the whole operation, frankly, look lazy. All right. Let's talk some free agency and the players that they've added this week. And I want to look at maybe a couple of categories of the additions this week. and I'll use, you know, a word culture as the first category. I hate to use that word. I have no idea how you feel about that word, but it seems to be overused. No, I'm kidding.

Who's the culture, who are the culture signings? I'd say Bobby Wagner, for one. I mean, he's the veteran you bring in to really set that tone. He's still productive, you know? I'm sure he's not the same. Bobby Wagner that he was in his prime when, you know, in Seattle. but he's still a really fine player, and he's that leader you need on that back.

And I think the defense especially has lacked that vocal leader. And that's it, you know, I'm such a cynic. I've always been sort of skeptical of like, what is leadership really? Do you need all that? But like, you could see it in this team. Like they were missing sort of that one guy to kind of be the glue back there. And I think he can be that. And again, it's short-term.

but you need somebody to set the tone initially to get the young guys going and to get the other veterans on the same page. So he's definitely one of them. On offense, I think Zach Ertz probably comes into mind too because he knows Cliff Kingsbury. You know, I'm curious to see where he's at physically health-wise because he hasn't been sort of the same player that he was, of course, in his prime. Some of the others, Austin Echler, certainly. curious to see how that works out to you in the running back room. I think him and Brian Robinson complement each other well, but he's another sort of veteran leader now, having been in league for a while.

He's, you know, big with the NFLPA, so he's certainly won. So, yeah, I'd say those guys. Jeremy Chinn, too. I don't know a ton about him in that regard. I mean, obviously, no, he's a very good safety at an incredible rookie year for the second in the defensive rookie of the year rankings behind James Young. But he strikes me as somebody that could assume a similar role there. All right.

Let's look at the category of impact on the field. The players they believe will have the most impact on the field for the longest period of time. What player, what players are in that category do you think? I really like Frankie Louvre. The linebacker that they signed was with Carolina. Undraft a guy, I want to say. Yeah, undrafted. you know, really proved himself as become a key start.

It was a special teamer and reserve linebacker really proved himself as a starter, prolific linebacker, versatile, too. You can use them in multiple spots. I mean, and that's such, that's been a position of weakness for so long for Washington. And now especially after losing Camp Curl, who was basically a linebacker, you know, these last couple of years playing down in the box so much, they need to emphasize that position even more. And I think especially in Dan Quinn's defense, you know,

you look at some of the guys that he's had over the years between, you know, Mike is a unicorn, but, you know, working with Bobby Wagner and KJ right over the years who have, you know, kind of played sort of versatile hybrid roles in the middle of the field, I think that's just important to really get some quality talent there. So to have Lou Louvre paired with Bobby Wagner, I think could be really, really interesting. And he's a younger guy still. I think he's one that could, you know, really stay here for quite a bit. And, you know, eventually turn into, you know, sort of that leader that Bobby Wagner is now.

There is definitely familiarity with a lot of the players they've brought in. Who gets the most credit for that in terms of these players? Who's been, you know, between Peters and Quinn and maybe, you know, maybe Cliff Kingsbury? who gets the majority of the credit for the 16-17 players that they've signed? Certainly the majority of it goes to Adam Peters. I think what he's done has been really, really good. And such a departure from what they've done in the past, you know, he's done everything he said he would do.

You know, and I think it takes that one person at the top to kind of get that going. And he's, you know, he is a scout. He came up through the scouting ranks. He's not just an executive sitting at the top. Like, this is his bread and butter. He's just an exceptional talent evaluator. So I would give the bulk of the credit to Adam Peters. But it does sound like their operation is more collaborative in the fact that, you know,

you're seeing, you know, players who have direct connections to a number of guys on staff, be it Dan Quinn, you know, there's a lot of former cowboys on staff. You know, there's some former, there's a former 49ers player on there. A lion player of Lance Newmark, the assistant GM, Cliff Kingsbury, of course, with Zach Ertz. So, yeah, you're seeing these direct connections. And I think, especially as you're trying to lay this foundation with veterans who can set the tone, that's where it does make sense to go with guys that you're familiar with. And they did bring in some others who haven't played directly with, you know, the guys here.

But, you know, I do think Dan Quinn deserves a lot of credit because I don't, I think it takes a certain type of coach to have that collaborative mindset and to bring in the assistance that he did to try to create something different. Now, this is all talk at this point. You know, everybody says they want to innovate and do something different. We'll see if they actually do. But so far, I feel like this group has promise. All right. Before we get to a quarterback conversation, what's next?

where do you see them making more moves in free agency either from other teams or maybe even some of their own free agents that haven't signed elsewhere? Yeah, I think maybe they look at some of the reserve guys, like maybe Cornelius Lupus type, just to kind of fill in some depth areas across the roster. I would think they probably want to look at bringing in a cornerback, get a veteran back there.

You know, I still think there's room in the titans, room to bring in competition and talent. You know, another receiver. I think there's a number of thoughts. I mean, they really have to rebuild this whole roster. I think, you know, I think going into the season, last season, I feel like, you know, what was I thinking? You know, I look at the roster now. I'm like, there are so many holes. Yeah, we all thought it was much better than it was.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I look at it now and really the only two players, going into the LL season, the only two players I thought were essentially locks to stay. And I feel like anybody's expendable in the NFL, but, you know, contractually locks to say would be Duran Payne and Terry McLaren because it would be too costly to get rid of them. And I don't know why you would want to get rid of either of them. I'm just saying, but, you know, everybody else, you know, they could gut the roster entirely. And, you know, frankly, they have so many starting jobs and reserve jobs available that, you know,

they're going to need every bit of this $91 million of cap space. And they've brought in 17 guys and they still have a ton left. So I think they're going to continue. And there's going to be a lot of lesser-known players, but they could turn into key players, as we've seen over the years. Do you think the lack of any signings at tackle means that the draft is where they're going to address that? I think they need to address it both in the draft and free agency. And I think that's another spot where we could see, you know, more help coming in free agency.

I mean, we're not even through the first week of free agency. But I think, you know, if they really want to truly build through the draft and they absolutely need to get a tackle, I mean, you have to build up that line through the draft. You know, I know there are different ways of doing it, but, you know, what Adam Peters has done in his previous office, it's going through the draft and getting some better and free agents. And they're not afraid to make big trades either. I mean, Trump Williams. So I am very curious to see if they make any splash moves the day of the draft,

even if it's not with picks, do they look to move up or down? They're certainly armed with draft capital to be able to do that. The question, you know, always for me is, can you find a partner? but this team has every resource available to them this offseason to really rebuild the team. Is there anybody on the roster that wasn't an unrestricted free agent that you've got in a sense that they, I mean, taking Terry and Duran and John Allen maybe out of the equation, that they're excited to coach. Does anybody come to mind if nobody comes to mind, that's fine? I'm not quite certain their read on Jamie Davis.

I know they've been looking at him a lot, but I don't know if they're looking at him because they think they want to move on or they think he could eventually be something in this defense. I guess the one that, I don't know if they're, I mean, I think they really like Terry. They respect him. Maybe Be Robb potentially.

Kwan Martin is another one where, you know, he's smaller, but he did start to flash later in the season and his versatility. I think he's a guy that could, you know, be a key player in this defense, but that also depends on who they're looking at in the draft and the rest of the agency. So I don't know that there's one really that, you know, really stands out as, you know, this is a guy that's on the rise, but, you know, it could easily be overlooking somebody. Yeah, well, I mean, just take their last two first round picks. I'm really curious, you know, especially a Quinn defense.

where, you know, you saw, you know, you've seen Trayvon Diggs, obviously, and we've seen Dron Bland, and we've seen all these turnovers, and Forbes was a turnover machine in college. And I just wonder what they think of him. I wonder what Cliff Kingsbury thinks of a guy like Johan Dotson, who just a year ago, again, we were wrong about so much a year ago, but not only was a great route runner, but was a major scare in terms of a deep threat with catch radius, the whole thing. and I'm just curious, I wonder what they think of those two guys, you know, as examples. Yeah.

I do too. You know, those are some of the things that I'm very curious to see because, like, I still think Johan Dopson can be a very fine receiver. Yeah, me too. I felt like part of the reason he had a down year, I mean, he had his drops, but I felt like the offense overall was just such a mess last year that, you know, I'm not making excuses for him, but I think that certainly contributed to. I mean, there were so many games where he only got one target. So I still think he can be a really good receiver. I still think he's probably the most polished route runner on the team. So, yeah, I mean, in Emmanuel Forbes, I'm very curious to see what they can do there

because I feel like, especially in the secondary, they have lacked sort of that the ability to really develop guys. And I, you know, you hope that this coaching staff, is a little bit different and they can really start to coach these guys up because, you know, I think some people assume that once you get to the pros, there's no coaching, you got to know how to do it, but no, you've got to really develop these guys. And I felt like that was one of the big things that was missing. And, you know, of course, on the other end of it, the player has to be willing to be coached

and we'll see if he is that. I would think he is. But I still think, you know, there's obvious talent there. It says, you know, did they have the right stuff to get it out of them, hopefully. Yeah, I think also just with respect to Jahan, one of the interesting things will be to see if they're thinking wide receiver and a loaded wide receiver draft when they've got two early second round picks. All right. Let's talk quarterback. Let's start with yesterday.

So just your reaction to Sam, how being traded, the compensation they got back, and just tie that in to your thoughts on Marioita being the. guy that they signed as the veteran quarterback. Yeah, also with the Sam Hallel piece. I felt like it was inevitable once they brought on Marriott that they were going to try to move them. I mean, the values there, and it's good for Sam Hall to, you know, move them now, get some value in return to continue to build up the roster or, you know, use these higher picks the package for another trade down the road.

And, you know, it's Sam Howell ends up in a really good situation, you know, as the backup of Gina Smith, who knows? maybe tears it up and, you know, gives them enough reason to eventually start. So that trade made sense, and I thought they did get good value out of it. You know, he was a fifth-round pick, and now they have, you know, six picks in the top 100, right? Yeah. I don't quite understand the Marriota signing. You want a backup who's a clear leader, a backup who can step in and win at any point.

I don't know that he's shown that either of those at every stop. I would have rather stuck with Sam Powell as a backup, but again, I understand that veteran mentorship could be a key piece if they're eyeing a young quarterback early in the draft. He's probably, like, I think he's a very talented quarterback. I like the mobility. There's a lot of things to like about him. but that

that would not be my first choice. I'm trying to think that the guys that were available and I'm not sure who I would have chosen instead. Well, there were reports that they were looking at Darnold. Right. That's not it. To me, you keep saying how if you're going to,

if you're looking at Donald, just keep saying out all. I mean, but, you know, I... They certainly weren't going to pay him $10 million for one year, as the Vikings did. Right, right. Yeah. That's where you want, like, a Fitzpatrick, you know? Like, you want that Josh McCown veteran back there who is really going to mentor a guy.

And, yeah, I can step in and win a game or two. Like, you know, I'm very curious to see if they offered Jacoby percent anything and kind of what the conversation was there. Me too, me too. I wonder what that was like. I mean, you know, Alex Van Pelt was in New England. He had coached Jacoby in Cleveland. he got drafted by the Patriots. Maybe just Jacoby wanted to go to New England.

He got a little bit more money than Mario D. I think he deserves, actually, a little bit more money than Marioota got. But, yeah, no, I'm interested in it, too. You know, it must be the Brian Johnson tie. And the 49ers kicked the tires on Mariota a couple of years ago before they drafted Purdy, you know, in that particular draft. So maybe Adam Peters liked that, you know, liked Marriott. Toyota then. Who knows? Yeah.

So let's talk about what's next at quarterback. So what are you thinking? Do you think that this is, like what are the best odds right now for you? The best odds are you take one at two. But, you know, I'm still not totally certain on what Chicago, I mean, to me it all points to Caleb Williams. You know, like I feel like they're going to take Caleb Williams. but, you know, what if somebody does offer up a really good package? Would they be willing to part with them?

You know, they haven't moved on from fields yet. You know, would they? That, to me, of course, is the wild card. And then, you know, would Washington be willing to make a major play? I mean, so far they've said they don't want to, you know, mortgage the future to one player. I get that. But if it's that quarterback and they absolutely love this quarterback,

then that's when you do it, you know. Do they absolutely love Caleb Williams? Not sure. So that's why I think, you know, number two makes the most sense right now. It could change, you know, as we learn more about these guys, that they're pro days and, you know, we hear more coming out of their top 30 visits. So, yeah, then it comes down to, you know, J.D.N.N.O. or Drake May. And I'm honestly not sure which way they're laying.

Truly. Like, I know there are some folks that think, oh, because they sign Mark's Marriota, his play style is more akin to Jaden Daniels, therefore they like Jaden Daniels. But I don't agree with that. I think that's taking a leap. And I do think Drake may have some mobility. You know, it's not to the degree of Jaden Dianos, of course. But, yeah, I'm honestly not sure, and it's frankly quite frustrating reporters.

Well, you know, as you said that, I was thinking, you know, the first thing I asked you about the organization. Just what I think people are able to learn from this group through conversations has been so much more limited than the previous regime, but definitely the regimes before the Rivera regime. I think this is, I mean, you would know more than I, but this is a really tight-lipped group. Yeah, no, it's pretty airtight. It's pretty irritated. They've kept it to a small group. They're really serious about not having any leaks out there. And smartly so.

It sucks for me. But, you know, for the organization, smartly so. Yeah. You know, you don't want to tip your hand in these because they really, they have the resources and the power to change the entire draft if they wanted to. So, of course, you don't want to pick your hand on this one. All right. So what would you do?

What would I do? I think I'd stay at two and take a quarterback. I don't, I say this with, you know, full disclosure, I always feel like I don't know enough about these quarterbacks to really make a true, like to give a true opinion, could they be good? Maybe not because, you know, I feel like you're in your NFL bubble for so long, and then you really start to study these college backs, and you feel like, well, I still want to see this, I want to see this, I want to know about this,

and you just feel like there's always some missing piece of information that you don't have. But I do think there's a lot to like about both Jayden DeAnneauce and Drake May. There's also, and this is true of the top three quarterbacks with Caleb Williams in the mix, that I feel like there's at least one flaw with all of them, too. You know, that said, like there are so many guys over the years that, you know, could be deemed, you know, he's truly NFL ready. He's like the perfect quarterback, and we look at them three years later, and they're on a trade block, you know.

I mean, I don't know that anybody thought Kenny Pickett was perfect quarterback There's a reason he was taken 20th that year And that was a down year for For quarterbacks, but You know, you look at how many How many quarterbacks are being moved Now that were drafted in the first round

It's pretty astounding, you know? And Adam Peters, of course, has his own history With Trey Lance So, you know, I think it's, there's a bit of luck And it's a bit of a crapshoot But I do, I do like a lot of the the skills that each quarterback has. And I, you know, watch that cycle through dozens now.

Like, if you have a number two pick, you have to take a chance on a quarterback. If you need a quarterback, you take it. Yeah, I totally agree. By the way, don't you think we've learned enough to know that the Trey Lance move was much more Kyle than it was Lynch or Peters? Yes. Okay. I do.

I do. I think so, too. Of course, I'm not in the room. I don't want to assume, but it did, you know, it did be like that. Yeah. So. You know, when they had two in 2012, we all knew it was going to be RG3. When they had two in 2020, we were all pretty sure it was going to be Chase Young.

This is going to be so much different over the next six weeks. And it's going to be great, I think, for, you know, people like us and what we're going to, we do in hoping that the content is, that there's an audience for the content, because it really is a mystery. And unless they were to trade to number one, I think the mystery will remain until shortly before the draft. It'll stay a mystery. I think so too. I think so too. And I think everybody is so used to having that answer before the draft, right? The obvious pick that I think it's, you know, everybody's going to feel like they know who it is going in. I still think they could come away with some surprise element in this draft.

So I agree with you completely. You're the best. Hope you're well. Thanks for doing this. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for having me. Nikki Javala, everybody from the Washington Post. Rate us and review us if you get a chance, especially on Apple and Spotify. Follow us as well. Hit that plus button in the upper right-hand corner on your iPhone.

or the follow button down the left-hand side on Spotify. Subscribe where you can as well. All right, I'll finish up with a few things, including the end of Maryland's basketball season, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, if you're into DFS Daily Fantasy Sports, listen closely. Prize Picks is a new sponsor, and I recommend them. They're the largest daily platform for DFS in North America.

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They've got contests, you know, from the beginning with the full brackets. And then when you get down to the Sweet 16, they'll have chances for you to participate in brackets starting at that point as well. My bookie does it right. In addition to the best sports book there is, my book he's got a live online casino for all of the table games. that you'd want to play online. MyBooky.ag promo code, Kevin, D.C. So I wanted to finish up with a couple of things. I'll finish up with just thoughts on Maryland basketball season here in a moment, but I wanted to touch on what I think was the biggest NFL story of the day. We touched on the trades in the open to the show, but maybe the biggest news in the NFL today was Aaron Donald,

retiring after a brilliant 10-year career. And I thought of something when I heard the news I was on radio. I thought, wow, I wonder if he is the greatest defensive tackle in the history of the game. And then I also thought simultaneously, I wonder if he's one of the more under-the-radar, overlooked, underrated great players in the history of the game. And the reason I say that is probably because of my friend, Tommy, guys Tommy's age, an older. I think people of a certain age, when it comes to defensive players in particular, you never think that players of today are as good as the players from back

in the day. You know, defensive players back in the day could basically tear people's heads off. They were more violent. They were more physical. And it made a more lasting impression. Like to me, there's no greater player either side of the ball, by the way, than Lawrence Taylor in my lifetime of watching football, which goes back to the early to mid-70s. But I think Aaron Donald, for a lot of older fans, I think people would say, no, no, no, no. It's Randy White, man.

It's Merlin Olson. You know, it's Alan Page. Tommy's a big Allen Page guy. Or, you know, even guys that might be in their 30s or early 40s might say, No, no, no, Warren Sapp, you know, Cortez Kennedy. Aaron Donald, maybe that's just a perception I have, and I could be way wrong on this. Maybe every NFL fan of every age realizes the greatness of Aaron Donald and that he absolutely deserves to be considered the greatest interior defensive lineman of all time.

It's hard to do the Aaron Donald conversation or argument or comparisons with players from yesteryear because the numbers for defensive players especially defensive linemen they just weren't available i mean the sack stat wasn't a stat until 1982 i mean let alone think about things like you know pressure percentages you know pressures in in in pure numbers um those numbers don't exist for bob lilly you know they don't exist for um you know dan hampton or you know Alan Page. But Aaron Donald, there are a couple of things that stick out. First of all, watching him play. And remember, part of it is he played in St. Louis a couple of years, played for some ram teams that weren't good. And when Sean McVeigh got there and they became good, he played

in two Super Bowls. I actually think he had a case for MVP in the Super Bowl win over Cincinnati. I think Cooper Cup won that MVP. But remember the big time late game sacks and pressures that he had that altered the end of that game. So it may have been that, you know, St. Louis, the Rams, some teams that weren't so great. But man, I don't think there's ever been a player that has been game planned more at that position than Aaron Donald. And in part, it's not just, you know, that there have been great defensive tackles before, super strong defensive tackles. Randy White was strong and athletic. Merlin Olson, Alan Page, Beasts. But Aaron Donald's frame, man, that sleekish, you know, frame for a defensive tackle, this sick quickness and speed and

athleticism. I mean, he just could wreck a play faster than any player on the field on the defensive side of the ball because he was the closest player to the ball. And he did wreck so many plays in so many games. And if you look at this guy, like I wish there were a stat that reflected how many times a player was double-teamed or triple-teamed. Like, I don't think that any game plan for an offensive coordinator against the Rams with Aaron Donald included more than maybe a half-dozen plays in the game where he wasn't, you know, double-teamed or triple-teamed. You had to. Or he was in you were backfield, and he was the player closest to the ball. So the eye test always with him was, oh my God, has there ever been anybody this athletic, you know, 6-1-275-ish, right, somewhere around

there, that, you know, area with that frame that was a little bit different from those players from way back when, not that he wasn't a big dude and a big strong dude, but it was just that first step and the incredible athleticism and then all of the moves that he had at the position. Like he was super high cue in addition to being super freakish athletically. But here's something to just consider, right? Since going through the numbers is an exercise that's really hard to do because so many of those numbers weren't kept on some of the players that some would say are the greatest interior defensive linemen of all time. But here are, are two things to consider. Actually, more than two. First of all, in the history of the game,

or at least since the Defensive Player of the Year award started, there are only three players that have ever won Defensive Player of the Year three times. J.J. Watt, Lawrence Taylor, and Aaron Donald. Pretty good company. You know, this is an award that's not a contemporary player award. It's a media award. But Lawrence Taylor, J.J. Watt, and Aaron Donald are the only three players to have ever won defensive player of the year three times. How about this? In 10 seasons, Aaron Donald made the Pro Bowl 10 times. You know, from his defensive rookie of the year season in 2014, first round pick out of pit with the St. Louis Rams, all right, made the Pro Bowl that year. Even the one season in which he missed games and was hurt in 2022 still made the Pro Bowl, 10 seasons, 10

Pro Bowls. There are only two players who have played at least 10 seasons in the history of the game to have ever been to the Pro Bowl in each of their NFL seasons. That list includes Barry Sanders and Aaron Donald. That's the list. Aaron Donald in 10 years was a Pro Bowl 10 times. He was an all pro nine times, eight times as a first team all pro. Just an incredible career. One of those debates where it's debatable, like I've always said about the position

debates, I think there's only one position where NFL fans, long-time NFL fans, are all in agreement, and that's wide receiver. where everybody acknowledges pretty much that Jerry Rice was the greatest wide receiver of all time. Like, that seems to be the one position where there's never any sort of debate. I mean, LT as an outside linebacker is pretty close. But, like, there's no real competition for Jerry Rice. There's some competition for Aaron Donald in the conversation.

But Donald definitely deserves to be in the conversation. One quick note. In reading a little bit just about Donald before this show, people always mention Reggie White as an interior defensive lineman, but they also acknowledge that he played both positions. That may be true, but Reggie White, for me, is a defensive end. And it goes back to Philadelphia. Like that team with Jerome Brown and Clyde Simmons and then a guy like Pitts or a guy like Goet. Golick. He was a defensive end for Buddy Ryan's Eagles, you know, in that era before God told him to go to the Packers. And then in Green Bay, he was much more of a defensive end.

It's an interesting thing about Reggie White. Like, there's a lot of people that will talk about him as if he was primarily a D-tackle. I just don't, I don't remember it that way. I think, I remember him playing occasionally and being moved around on the inside. side, but I think he was more defensive end than defensive tackle. Like, if you told me Reggie White is a defensive tackle and he played the majority of the snaps in his career as a defensive tackle, then I would say Aaron Donald was number two. But I don't think that's the case. I think he played much more at defensive end.

Anyway, great career for Aaron Donald. retiring pretty young, you know, at 32 about to turn 33 years old. All right, one more thing to get to, and I'll be brief on this, because I've already talked about it a few times. Maryland season came to an end yesterday. I mean, they were obliterated by Wisconsin. They trailed in that game at one point by 42 points. They lost by 31.

Honestly, I didn't go look this up, but I think it's one of the worst beatings of Maryland basketball teams ever taken in a postseason game anyway. I'm sure there were regular season games at Carolina or at Duke where they got really drubbed, but I can't remember an ACC tournament game or a Big Ten tournament game or an NCAA tournament game where they were down by 42 points. I know Alabama hammered them a couple of times in the second round the last few times they were in the tournament.

But anyway, Kevin Willard, for those of you, somebody sent me just a an obnoxious tweet. I'm not even going to read it, but it was something to the effect of leave it to guys like Sheehan who will use his relationship with the head coach Kevin Willard like he did with Mark Turgeon to try to convince everybody that they're good coaches or that he's a good coach. He is a good coach. He's been a good coach everywhere he's gone. I mean, there are degrees of good. I understand, but Kevin Willard's a really good. coach. Mark Turgeon was a really good coach. You know, these guys have one big pretty much everywhere they've gone. Now, when I say one big, March has been a problem for both of them. I, you know,

I acknowledge that when they hired Kevin Willard. You know, his March resume doesn't look any different than Turges did. But if you watch just, you know, the acumen from a coaching standpoint, coaches will tell you, well, coaches did tell over and over again as it relates. to Mark. Like, what is wrong with your fan base, Sheehan? Are you serious? The dude can flat out coach. Of course, I recognize that. But I also recognize that it got stale at the end because there weren't the March results. But Mark was an excellent coach. Kevin Willard is a very good coach, too. He's an excellent defensive coach. Now, this season is not an acceptable season for a Maryland basketball fan, lifelong Maryland basketball fan that I am, like many of you who listen are,

I understand it. 16 and 17, are you kidding me? I mean, we've had two non-winning seasons in 32 years, all right? And they were the first, you know, that last season off of probation before Maryland started to go to the tournament with Gary coming off probation and the Danny Manning interim year. That's it. You know, I've mentioned this before.

Maryland basketball for pretty much my entire lifetime. and many of your lifetimes has either been really good, good, or pretty good. You know, they've never been bad. And this year, the record, in watching them, I never thought they were a bad basketball team. But the record indicates that they're sub-500, 16 and 17 on the year. This season was doomed because they didn't have enough offensive firepower. You know, I think Kevin relied a bit too much on the freshman, Deshawn Harris Smith and Jamie Kaiser Jr.

To be scorers, it's hard to rely on freshmen to be scorers. It's an older person's game, especially with these COVID years here over the last couple of years. I think that they were really, really caught off guard when Ian Martinez entered the portal, basically in the last hour or two of the portal. Last spring, they had big plans for Martinez. Martinez was probably one of their best shooters and best defenders.

He's had a really good year at Utah State. They're going to the tournament. They've been ranked pretty much the majority of the year. I think that really hurt. I think they knew Hakeem Hart wanted to go back to Philadelphia to finish up his career, which he did at Villanova, but he was not a factor on Villanova's team at all. He should have stayed at Maryland. But the roster is Kevin Willard's responsibility.

I understand that. I completely get that. I understand that. So the results are on him. It's also a new day, NIL portal. The challenges that face coaches today are totally different than the challenges that faced coaches three or four years ago. And you've got to be at a school where you've got people stepping up to the plate to write checks now, or you can't get players.

You know, Maryland's collectives, their basketball contributions, for NIL are not at the bottom of the Big Ten, but they're not at the top of the Big Ten. And this is what is important now in developing a roster in which you essentially have to re-recruit your own players every year and develop a new roster through the portal every single year. It's just different. It's much different.

His challenges are much different than even Marks were. And Maryland's budget for paying players it's not the worst, but it's far from the best. So a lot of these players that may have come to Maryland previously or considered Maryland previously are going to go for bigger money. And it also means you're going to lose some players because you can't come up with enough money to keep them or they're going to get a better deal somewhere else.

Like I think Julian Reese will be a very interesting situation here. You know, they paid them to stay last year. They got to come up with more money to keep them again this year. but I'm sure there are schools out there looking for kind of a rim-protecting center. You know, 6-10 long-armed rim-protecting center. Julian's game is, you know, herky-jurkey limited at best offensively. You know, he is not progressed offensively to where you would really miss him offensively. You'd miss him defensively, though.

I mean, one of the reasons Maryland was an excellent defensive team this year, was because they had a true rim protector. But this season was disappointing. I totally agree with you. It's not acceptable. It's not what we believe Maryland basketball should be. But we may have to, as Dan Quinn has said, we may have to recalibrate a little bit

because the portal and NIL, it comes down to do you have a big enough budget to hang with the big boys to get the players here? He's going to have to come up with players, though. Budget or no budget, big budget, medium budget, whatever it is. I'm totally with Kevin Willard right now because I know he's a good basketball coach. He took this team to the tournament last year. They won a game.

But he's got to come up with a roster here in the portal. He's got Derek Queen, a five-star coming in, but he's going to have to come up with some real major ads through the portal. Because next year, it's not a year in which you can say, we didn't make the tournament, but look at Derek Queen. He's really blossoming his sophomore year is the year we're going to break out. Next year's a big year. They're going to have to add big time players. They're going to have to finish in the upper echelon of the Big Ten, and they're going to have to be an NCAA tournament team, or the conversation will be much different a year from now. Boy, that was ugly yesterday, though. I don't know what you could do with the shots

that Wisconsin hit early. I mean, they were 12 of their first 15 from behind the arc. But still, Marilyn had no shot even if they didn't shoot it well. Offense all year long was just awful and a problem for them. All right, done for the day back on Monday. Have a good weekend.