The Kevin Sheehan Show - Mock Opener + PFF Draft Breakdown

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

Kevin opened the show with his 2023 "Commanders" Mock Schedule season opener. The rest of it comes tomorrow with Thom. Kevin talked Sam Howell comps, Jason Wright, and the NBA Playoffs as well before getting to PFF Data Analyst Nick Akridge for Nick's breakdown of Washington's draft.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. One guest on the show today, our good friend Nick Ackridge from Pro Football Focus will join us with his Washington draft breakdown. He has spent the last week on it, and he will be on with us starting in the next segment

going pick by pick. We'll also talk a little Sam Howell with Nick Ackridge as well. I'm going to open the show today with my 2023 Washington Mock Schedule season opener. The rest of the mock schedule for the podcast will come on tomorrow's show with Tommy. But I'm going to give you the season opener for the Mock schedule. Now, by the way, the schedule is going to be put out Thursday night by the NFL. It'll be on ESPN, the NFL network, the whole thing. There was discussion about it being delayed.

This is apparently a very complicated schedule, according to John Oran from Sports Business Journal, for a number of reasons. One reason is that, you know, you've got the first year of the new TV deal, which means that the Fox, CBS, ESPN, NBC, Amazon Prime, you know, schedules are important, but they don't work exactly the way they used to work. there's going to be more opportunity to kind of even everything out. And the networks still have their preferences, but they don't have as much of a say in their slate as they used to have. And you've got a ton of holiday games this year. You have the triple header on Thanksgiving. You've got the first Black Friday game, which is the day after Thanksgiving.

You've got Christmas Eve games. You've got Christmas Day. games, John Oran from Sports Business Journal, you know, in his column on the schedule, in his newsletter, I had not heard this before, but they're going to do a triple header on Christmas day, which is a Monday on CBS, Fox, and NBC. And then you have New Year's Eve and New Year's Day games. You also have this year something that John wrote about, three, what they call side-by-side Monday night football games. If you recall last year was the first year in many years, that we didn't get the double header in week one on Monday night football. Instead, in week two,

we got a game that started at 7 o'clock on ESPN. That was the Titans and the Bills. And then at 825, on ABC, we got Vikings Eagles. They refer to that as a side-by-side Monday night football. situation where you don't have a true double header. You have two games going on simultaneously, even though they have staggered start times on ABC and ESPN. Apparently there will be three of those this year. So you got a lot of factors. You know, you had, you know, Aaron Rogers, the trade to the Jets, not being finalized until recently. Lamar Jackson going back to Baltimore. So it's been a hell of a schedule for them to figure out. But they've got it done. and they will unveil the actual schedule on Thursday night.

My mock schedule out tomorrow via the podcast with Tommy, but I'm going to give you what my season opener is right now. My thought process on the season opener was more complex, or the solving of the mock schedule season opener was more complex than it's been in recent years. in part and primarily because of the new ownership situation. Why? Well, because I think the league is going to want to have Washington with their first home game of the non-Dan Snyder era be something that is celebratory.

That's the way I want it anyway. And, by the way, Washington has opened three straight years at home. season. They opened against the Eagles in 2020, the Chargers in 2021, and the Jacksonville Jaguars last year in 2022. Rarely do you get four straight years of season openers at home. But I think the league wants to give them a home opener. They understand that the town's ready to jump back into a certain extent. But I think that this first home game will be a celebration of sorts, a celebration of Dan Snyder being gone. And because of that, I wanted to make sure that it was a game in which they didn't essentially bring in opposing fans, which

immediately excluded Dallas, the Giants, and the Eagles, and even the Bears and the Bills, all home opponents this year, from the season opener, home opener possibility for me. I don't want that game to be against the Cowboys. I guess there's a chance if it were against the Cowboys. It could be in prime time. But I want it to be against an opponent where, for the first time, in a long time, it's mostly Washington fans. There's a chance of that.

You know, they haven't had a complete sellout of Washington fans in that stadium in a while now. If you bring in Dallas for the season opener at home, it's going to be half cowboy fans. Same with the Eagles. maybe to a lesser extent the Giants, but Chicago has a fan base that travels, and so does Buffalo. So really, I was looking at San Francisco, Miami, and Arizona. They've opened up actually against Miami a couple of times in the last 15 years. They opened up against Miami in 2007,

and I think they opened up against Miami at home in 2015. I went with, as my season opening mock schedule, home game September 10th. I went with Arizona. I went with the least likely of their home opponents to bring their own

fan base into the park because I think it's a game that will sell out on its own with people there to root for Washington and to celebrate the beginning of the non-Dan Snyder era. So there it is. Arizona

at home, one piece, Sunday, September 10th. Is it possible the NFL is going to look at a prime time game because they want Washington in the limelight with no Dan Snyder? Yeah, but they're not supposed to be a good team. So I don't see them playing that Sunday night game. They're not going to play the Thursday night opener because they don't play the Chiefs. And I don't see them being either the Monday night game or maybe one of two Monday night games. Nothing would surprise me, of course. This is a mock schedule. and I am usually wrong on almost all of the mocks. I think the best I've ever done is four right,

and I think there have been many years where I've got none of them right. But some of them are pretty close even when they're wrong, within a week or so, or I got the right primetime games. I will also tease you by telling you that I think Washington will have at least three primetime games. So the rest of it comes tomorrow. So I woke up this morning and I read an article in the athletic written by Mike Jones. Mike Jones, of course, covered the team forever for the Washington Post.

And then, you know, was a USA Today columnist. And he wrote a story for the athletic who he now works for. And it was a profile piece on Jason Wright, Washington's team president, first black team president in the history of the NFL. And it was titled, Jason Wright wants to win back commanders fans, no matter the challenges or criticisms. And as I was reading through this column that Mike wrote, and Mike's a friend, and we've had Mike on the show many times, you know, it was for the first, you know, half of it, it was kind of, you know, the typical positive profile book report kind of, you know, story about Jason Wright and his background. He's got an impressive background. He played in the NFL, and then, you know, he got his MBA in operations and finance from the University of Chicago in 2013 and then worked for seven years at McKinsey, you know, the world's leading consulting firm.

And his specialty was building healthy cultures within struggling organizations and improving workplace diversity. And we know that he was hired, you know, 2020 to come in and replace Bruce Allen and, you know, try to. to guide this organization through the troubled waters that it was in at the time. And as I got to the second half of the piece, Mike, which I'm glad he did, also mentioned that there have been major gaffes during the Jason Wright tenure. He wrote, The Athletics spoke to 15 people around the league with ties to right or with current or recent ties to the team for this story, some of whom were granted anonymity to share their candid thoughts without fear of retaliation. I mean, that kind of reeks of the organization of old. I mean, 15 people, you know, willing to talk to

Mike about Jason Wright, but on the condition of anonymity, because they feared retaliation. That was interesting. Not as interesting as something else I'll get to here in a moment. But, you know, there was a list of the gaths, and not all of them, by the way. There were also, you know, positive things said about Jason Wright. Peter O'Reilly, NFL executive vice president of club business international and league events. Obviously, it's an unusual situation that he was in, but I've seen great things from Jason from the start. And he went on to say very nice things about Jason. And then there were criticisms from people on the record.

Scott Davidson is a former commander's corporate partner who stepped down last season from the team's leadership council after he said the working relationship with the charitable foundation staff became, quote, untenable. He said after the team's annual welcome home luncheon in 2022, the commanders failed to deliver to corporate sponsors a number of items promised as part of the purchased prize packages and eventually refunded the sponsors the cost of those items. Instead, he also complained Davidson did about the suite at FedEx Field. The lack of security and said fans without sweet tickets had routinely been able to gain access. Black Rifle Coffee is a vendor at FedEx Field. Mike Garcia said that two days before week one, he was the company liaison from Black Rifle Coffee. Two days before week one in 2022, that would have meant the Jacksonville opener. Three coffee machines were stolen from a state.

stadium storage room, Garcia said he was forced to scramble and purchase replacements on his own at Target after a commander's representative said the team couldn't help him. Davidson said Davidson from the corporate leadership council said, these people Jason Wright has hired have zero experience in the NFL. I know you have to start somewhere, but you're hiring high-level people and they don't have the knowledge and we can see how poorly things have gone. There's no attention to detail and how people. people will get better if there are no consequence and how will people get better if there are no consequences or accountability um right to decline to address the particulars of these incidents but said

that the accountability does run strong within the organization um several people on the condition of anonymity said long time uh supporters say significant some long time supporters say significant employee turnover has robbed the commanders of much-needed institutional knowledge, leading to setbacks and gaffes underwrite that have included the lukewarm fan response to the new name, the inability to properly honor the late Sean Taylor. And then he gets into that raffle check where the check bounced. And we know that there have been many more gaffes over the years. But again, there's a lot of positive in here as well. But here is, to me, the thing that stuck out more than anything else in this story.

Certainly 15 people willing to talk about Jason Wright, but needing to do it on the condition of anonymity because they feared retaliation. That was, you know, that was interesting to say the least. But here's the part that I thought was the most interesting. Mike Jones writes, meanwhile, Wright aspires to one day run both the business and football sides of an organization. He says his goals in Washington don't. include that. He aims to simply support Coach Ron Rivera, general manager Martin Mayhew,

and their assistance. Wright may ask questions about decisions and seek input on how the organization can better position football ops for success, but he doesn't lobby for the acquisition of players. Wright does lean on Rivera at times using the coach, and then in parentheses, Mike writes, who declined an interview request for this story. Wright does lean on Rivera at times using the coach who declined an interview request for this story. As an ambassador to help seal corporate partnerships, people familiar with the inner workings of the organization said, well, let me make sure that if that didn't really catch your eye or ear, that it should have. Ron Rivera pretty much talks to all of the reporters, beat reporters, columnists.

Doesn't talk to radio show hosts quite as much anymore. But his declining to be interviewed for a story, a profile piece on the team president that he's worked side by side with for three years. he didn't he wasn't unavailable for this story he declined the interview request that is an indication that more likely than not there is a bit of a rift between ron and jason in the organization certainly jason has you know made it um you know important for people to know that You know, he's got football opinions. You know, remember, he came to the defense of Carson Wentz. Hell, he made it a point, or somebody in the organization on his behalf made it a point

that they knew that Jason flew back to get the deal done with Duran Payne, as if Duran Payne wouldn't have signed it without Jason right there. I think there was something else similar to that with Terry McLaurin last summer. You know, look, both of them are in the mode of, hey, we're in self-preservation. I think Jason's making it a little bit more obvious that he's in self-preservation mode more than Ron. And it may be because Jason wants to be a part of it more than Ron does. I don't know. But with new ownership changing, there is some, you know, positioning of themselves.

Look, Jason Wright publicly in recent weeks, he was on CNBC last week, been out there, you know, essentially gleeful, you know, about Snyder exiting because the business is going to improve so much. He's not wrong. I'm not suggesting he's wrong about that, but my God, what if Snyder actually held onto the team? I mean, I think the first thing at this point Snyder would do would be to fire Jason Wright. He's been way too, way too direct about the impact of Snyder leaving the organization and thank God for that because now we can have a business that generates revenue. Again, he's not wrong. It's just interesting about the public nature of, you know, his directness as it relates to being so thrilled that Snyder is selling the team. You know,

big picture on this stuff, I just thought the Ron Rivera declining the interview. For those of you that didn't have a sense, like many of us in the media do, that gives you a sense of the relationship there. You know, this place is just, it may not be as ass backwards as it's been in the past, you know, and I have credited Ron for the culture of the football operation changing. And I do think Jason's probably hired some people that are a hell of a lot more competent and a lot less arrogant than the people that used to be there before. I do agree with institutional knowledge, but I wasn't much impressed with the institutional knowledge of the people that were there before Jason got there. But I think a lot of their gaffs could have been avoided had they just reached

out to people or had people in the organization with more institutional knowledge of the product. and, by the way, the consumer that uses the product. But there is still some dysfunction out there. There's no doubt about that. And I would just say, big picture, the good news here is that you just take a step back from all of this stuff and say, soon enough, Josh Harris is going to be in there, and maybe with the help of Mitchell Rails and Magic Johnson and others, hopefully they know the kind of people that you need to have everywhere in the building to, you know, have success. Because picking, you know, high quality people,

highly competent people, hardworking people, and people who go beyond the job description and can be a part of the team. This is where, hopefully, for the first time, you have somebody who's run successful sports organizations in the past that will bring in the right people, and we won't be having these conversations, hopefully, as much in the future. But part of me just thinks that when Harris takes over, it's going to be a bloodbath for everybody. I'm not wishing that. Trust me. I mean, I'm not involved enough to know who's good and who isn't and who they should keep and who should go immediately. And most of you don't have a sense of that either, even if you have a strong opinion about that.

You're not there every day. We all know that. unless you're in the trenches every day, you really don't know. We know the gaffs, the major public gaffs that they've made. We know the record on the football side. But I would imagine that there will be a lot of change over the next year when new ownership comes in. One last thing before we get to Nick Ackridge. Matt Miller is an ESPN draft analyst, and he was on.

1067 the fan, the sister station of the station I worked for, the team 980. Matt Miller, ESPN draft analyst, was on with our guy Linnell, Willingham. And he said this about Sam Howl. I do not see him as a playoff caliber quarterback. I'm sorry. I know people want to believe, I just don't. Coming out of college, you know, there was definitely talk in the lead up to the season that, you know, he could be a QB1.

You know, it was him and Spencer Rattler were the toast of the town. And, you know, it didn't work out for either guy. I had Sam rated as my number 74 overall player, and I compared him to Colt McCoy. You know, undersized, shorter guy, a little bit of a thicker body, not great arm strength. I know that, you know, a lot of people said,

oh, it's Baker Mayfield. I never thought he had as much twitch as a runner as Baker had, especially in Oklahoma. But some of that ability to play on the move, you know, to kind of be like a, you know, more of a, more of a gamer in some ways. Okay, let's find a spot. Let's find a window. Let's make the throw.

I think we saw him pick some of that back up toward the end of the year. So I talked about these comments from Matt Miller at ESPN on the radio show this morning. Some of you had some issues or many people had issues with the comp to Colt McCoy. And I didn't really have a problem with the comp to Colt McCoy. You know, obviously it would be great if he turned down. to be Jalen Hertz. They are similar in size. They're physical runners. They've got really good, you know, extend the play ability. By the way, Matt Miller is wrong, I think, when he talks about arm strength. I think Sam Hal has better arm strength than Colt McCoy. That would be the one difference.

But I love, you know, the gamer aspect of both of them. You know, if Colt McCoy had been the comp a year ago after the draft when they selected him in the fifth round. And somebody had said, you know, before this past year in Carson, Wenson, Taylor Heineke, and the Dallas game and the QB1 label and all of it, somebody had said, look, they may have a guy here that can be a really good backup quarterback in the NFL and spot starter for years to come. You know, that would not have been a criticism, I don't think, a year ago. I actually think that they play similarly.

Again, the difference would be, I think Sam Howell has a bigger arm than Colt McCoy. I think Baker Mayfield's arm, we talked about this to it, I think at the end of last year when he was playing for the Rams about how I think it may have been Sabah or somebody else said, you know, Mayfield and Taylor Heineke are similar. And I said, no, no, no, they're not. Baker Mayfield's got a big time arm. And I think Sam Hal does too. The comp to Colt McCoy, though, to me, is not, you know, that much criticism. Look, I hope it's Jalen Hertz. I hope it's Drew Breeze.

You know, I hope that he ends up being those players. But if he ends up being Colt McCoy, I used to say about Colt McCoy, Tommy's son, and Colt McCoy knows how much Tommy loves him and Colt loves Tommy. That I used to say to Tommy when we used to get in arguments about Colt McCoy, look, if you start him 16 games, he's a 6-10 quarterback, you know, with good talent. Now, if you surrounded him with great talent, maybe he's an 8 and 8, 9, and 7 quarterback. And I don't know that Sam Howl's that, but I think the style of play is similar. But yeah, Colt McCoy's had a nice long career.

I think at times he played a lot better than Kyle Murray did for the Cardinals. We'll see. I mean, we've got a long way to go. But, man, some people were really upset with the comp to Colt McCoy. I wouldn't say that that was a horrible comp. We'll ask Nick Ackridge what he thinks. But for me, stylistically similar, the one difference would be arm strength. Sam Hal's got more arm strength than Colt McCoy.

Colt McCoy had more arm strength to Taylor Heineke, if you're wondering. And both Baker Mayfield and Sam Hal have much bigger arm strength than what they've had here last year in the form of Taylor Heineke. One person's opinion, look, they're going to play them. They're going to give him a shot. So we will all find out it's May 9th. We are exactly four months away from a day before the season opener. All right. Up next, Nick Ackridge on, I'll ask him about Sam Hal.

I'll ask him about these comments. And we'll get his breakdown in the draft right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie.com. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and MyBooky will offer you. something most books don't offer you, and that is a chance to exit quickly after your initial deposit. All you have to do is wager that initial deposit one time around and you're eligible to cash out. Perfect for the NBA playoffs, perfect for all of the Triple Crown races, perfect for any kind of

boxing or UFC event. You may want to wager on. You deposit 500 bucks. Once you've wagered 500 in aggregate, you are eligible to cash out. You've got to use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to have access to that. The games tonight, by the way, Denver is now up to a six-point favorite over Phoenix. The Celtics are seven and a half against the 76ers in the two game fives. I don't like either side, although I would lean Denver a little bit to win at home tonight. All right, jumping on with us, and he's been on with us several times in the past is a conversation I enjoy having, and that is with Nick Ackridge from Pro Football Focus.

He is a senior data analyst for PFF. You can follow him on Twitter at PFF underscore Nick Ackridge, and that's A-K-R-I-D-G-E. The reason Nick's been so good is he's really good at his job, but he's also a big fan of the team here of the Washington. commanders, and so he pays a lot of attention to this team. So you've had time now to look at the draft, and we'll get to that. But I wanted to ask you what I talked about a little bit in the open about,

and that is that this guy from ESPN draft analyst Matt Miller was on with one of the people from our radio station or our sister station, 1067, the fan, Linnell Willingham, and comped Sam Howell to Colt McCoy. I don't know if I've ever asked you this before, but who is the comp for you for Sam Howell? I've heard it a lot, and I've agreed with the comp that a lot of people have been. It's definitely not Colt McCoy, that's for sure. The comp I've seen a lot and want to make sense is the Baker-Mayfield.

I mean, they're kind of built the exact same. They have the arm strength. I wouldn't say it's top tier Josh Allen arm strength, but they have, you know, good enough arm strength, and it's a solid trait they have. There's sneaky athletic at times. You know, they're small and scout and kind of can make, you know, people miss in the open field. But, you know, Col McCoy comp was not the one I had at all for howl. Tell me why it's not Colt McCoy. Is it arm strength?

Yeah, it's definitely, it's arm strength. I mean, McCoy's arm is not great. and we knew that when he was even coming out of Texas. I mean, it's just not something that he's really known for. And with Howell, one of the things that I did note down was that he has, you know, good arm strength. I mean, that's one of his pros, one thing that you can really work with. It was good arm strength, good accuracy. And it's the big thing with Howell that kind of knocked him was his offense.

The offense he played in, you know, there really was not much full field NFL passing concept that he had to go through. it was a lot of one read and take off to run. And that's mostly because, you know, UNC really had to ask him to do that in his final year. He was just forced to run a lot more. You didn't really see him kind of, you know, work within pockets and manipulate pockets as much. But I think that would be the, you know,

the kind of sticking point that really kind of had power drop a bit. By the way, I think, you know, you mentioned something, and I remember when he was playing for the Rams at the end of last year, Baker Mayfield, And there was that game, like, I think it was a Thursday night game against Denver. And he let him down the field for a game winning drive. And I came in the next day and I said, don't forget, Baker Mayfield has a freaking gun. Like he can make every single throw.

His issue has been more on the mental side and on the getting along with everybody side. But he has a high-level NFL arm. Yeah, no, absolutely. You don't really kind of think it as much with Baker-Maysfield, but I remember we charted him with a Hail Mary that went, it went out of the back of the end zone, but he threw it almost 70 yards in a game. It was completely inaccurate,

and like I said, it went out of the back of the end zone, but it was one of the longest throes we've charted. So he has an actual, it can't end up an arm, and I think that's kind of a decent, conscious size-wise and kind of, you know, what they were kind of thought of, you know, coming out of college a little bit. I want to just, I want to talk to you about the draft, but as long as we're on Sam Howell, let's continue, because obviously this is going to be, I mean, this is the number one question mark area of the football team.

We all who follow this team and you do as well, we feel pretty good about the roster. I mean, the offensive line, I'm not sure how much it was upgraded versus just adding new bodies. but let's assume that with Eric B. Enemy and Andrew Wiley, that maybe, you know, it's a little bit improved. But Sam Howell's the biggest mystery to everybody, by the way, Nick. And I would put the team into that category regardless of how much they've been pitching him here in the offseason. But I want to go back just for a moment with you. Maybe we've done this before. I don't remember that we have.

And tell you something that I talked about maybe last week and get your thoughts on. And that is this idea that it was just wrong that he fell to the fifth round. And that, you know, just everybody made a mistake. This is this assumption that not only everybody made a mistake, but they made a mistake because the last year at North Carolina, statistically, wasn't a good year because he was missing all of his best players from the year before, which is true. However, I don't think you can make any case.

you can make one to me if you think there's one making, that a quarterback fell four plus rounds because he was a little off statistically in his final year from where he was the year before. It has to be more than that. Do you agree or disagree? No, I agree. It's kind of just wild what really happened with him from his sophomore season to his junior season and how that led from him being seen as a top 10 pick to, like you said, a fifth round quarterback. It's just kind of insane. And speaking of Sam Howell, I'm currently kind of working on an article, hopefully, for PFS that is going to talk about Sam Howell and kind of what happened with him, you know, going from that sophomore to junior season.

And I think a big thing that I found was, like I said earlier, they didn't ask him to throw as much as they didn't pass. Mostly because, like you said, they lost in top tier guys. They lost, you know, they lost Deaumie Brown, Dad News, the Michael Carter. and Javonsi Williams, all of them were drafted in the draft. Their offensive line was not great, never was. And so they kind of saw that he was effective with his legs, and he just asked him to use his leg mark. I mean, in his sophomore season, he had a, we chartered him with a 92.3 overall grade,

91.5 passing grade, and that's up there with, that was up there with Trevor Lawrence, the Zach Wilson, the Justin Fields that year. And then in 2021, he had a 91.1 overall grade, but just an 81.1 passing grade, because they didn't ask him to pass as much, and so he just wasn't as efficient. But his big thing there was he had 91.0 running grade. Say that again. I'm sorry, he had a 90-what-what? 91.0 running grade.

And he forced 65 missed tackled in his junior season, and that was the most we've charged by a Power 5 quarterback since 2014. So they just asked him to run more, and he was effective at it. And I think that just kind of led to his drop-off in those passing numbers. bit, and I still think that he was efficient in that passing, and I kind of mentioned earlier. That offense is not really one that you can kind of look to and kind of project as a future NFL starting quarterback. There's not much that translates from that offense to the NFL, and it'll kind of be an

interesting thing we see with Drake May coming up next year from UNC as well. But, you know, I think Powell saw he to the fifth round was just crazy to me. He was my second quarterback. I had him. I had Desmond Ritter first and then him second, Penny Pickett third. But all three of those guys that kind of had jumbled together and I could see you taking in the lake first or kind of second round.

So him sliding to the fifth I think was a massive mistake, but that doesn't mean he's just going to come in here next year and, you know, like the world on fire. But I think the fifth round is definitely was way too far before. Right. But the reason, but what's interesting, and it sounds like you're starting to look into this, is why did he fall?

Because, you know, like his past attempts were equal to what they were in 2020. The yardage was about 500 yards off. You know, you talked about the efficiency was down, but the run efficiency was up. In many ways, you could probably make the case. My God, we found out that this dude is a badass runner in addition to having the arm. My point has been that, you know, college, that NFL GMs, and scouts understand what he had in 2020 versus what he didn't have in 2021. They're projecting him as an NFL quarterback.

The statistical drop-off, which wasn't significant, really, wasn't the reason for why he fell. The no Diami Brown, no Giovante, Williams, no Michael Carter Jr., etc., etc., wasn't the reason he fell. Why he fell? I don't know. Do you have a theory as to why he fell so? far. And what they saw on him in terms of a projected NFL starter at some point, if not a franchise quarterback, in his next to last year, his sophomore year, wasn't what they saw

a year later. Yeah, I mean, that whole quarterback class, I'm not sure what happened. I just, like you said, with Sam Howell, if we took him from his sophomore season when he couldn't enter the draft, he was seen as a top 10 pick. I remember PFF did a way too early mock draft, and they had him going like second overall. And it's just kind of wild to see him fall so far. And my only thought is that because it was such a weak quarterback class, no one was really kind of clamoring for these quarterbacks. I mean, Kenny Pick was the only first round guy.

He had Ritter going round three. But then you had Bailey Zappy and Malice Willis go in front of someone like Matt Correll. Matt Corral as well, who now I don't think he's on the Panthers anymore, right? I think they are going to release him or whatever. but it's just, it was insane to me. I don't know how you could watch those other guys and put them above Sam Hall of it, and that's just my opinion.

I just, I think it's strange. I don't really have a reason as to why it happened. Maybe sometimes they just overthink it, I guess. Yeah, it's just interesting because I would say to you in a weak quarterback class, but still having a significant number of teams with a quarterback need, that in some way, shape, or form, should have made Sam Hal more desirable because there wasn't a lot to choose from.

Yeah. Last year, I kind of said it a lot. It's kind of what you really wanted out of your quarterback position. I think Kenny Pickett was a guy that's kind of, you know, he was an interesting one. He was kind of, he had like a down year, but he had these moments that we saw it with pitchers last year, like where he just kind of turned it on out of nowhere. He would have incredible drives, incredible court, incredible half, but he was just never really consistent. Desmond Ritter was a type of guy that when you looked at the mental side of like the quarterback playing processing, he was up there with the bed, but he had accuracy concerns and all that sort of stuff.

And then Howell had the tools, the arm, the accuracy, he didn't really know how he could handle an NFL offense. It was just what he kind of preferred with your quarterback. And I guess some just didn't want to deal with Sam Howell. I don't know. I went back a couple of weeks ago and I was looking for like a comp in terms of this, not a comp in style of play, but the guy that if he had come out a year earlier would have been, or at least perception-wise, would have been a much higher pick than when he did come out a year later. And the guy that I first came across was Christian Hackenberg.

Because Hackenberg, in his next to last year at Penn State, was a projected top. 10 pick. You know, he just looked the part and everybody thought it was. And then by the time he got to his draft year, he actually went in the second round and it turned out that he couldn't play. I mean, he just, he wasn't any good and couldn't play.

You know, there was one other one that I went back and found, and I'm looking through now to my notes to see if I can find it. But whatever. Yeah. Oh, I guess it was Jimmy Clausen. I mean, Jimmy Clausen actually at one point,

you know, during his career at Notre Dame was thought to be maybe a top five pick in the NFL draft. And he ended up going in the second round as well and never, ever had a career. He was the guy I think Kuyper said, you know, he basically bet, you know, his reputation that Klauson would become a really good NFL starter and he was dead wrong. Yeah. He retired if it was Klaus and was a starter, so we're still waiting on that. Exactly. That's what it was.

He said he would retire. All right. Let's get to the draft. Oh, I know. Before we get to that, you really, and I remember this, and then I saw that you had tweeted it the other day. You really thought that Chase Rueh, healthy, was a really good center, didn't you? Yeah, no, I thought he was one of the best centers in the NFL.

I think he's what held that off his line together. We've seen it these past couple years when he's been injured just how bad it I think the center position has always been really, really undervalued just because you can't really see the mental side of it as much. But, you know, I think he was one of the smartest centers in the NFL. I was a huge, huge fan that Chase Rulia. And it just kind of sucked what happened with his injuries, and he was just never really able to come back.

But, no, I think it was a huge, huge loss. Do you think, as it relates to the center position, this is my feeling anyway, that the reason they signed Nick Gates, the reason that they re-signed Tyler Larson is they would like to have a vet. Veterans Center with Sam Howell, that that's important to them to take a little bit of pressure off Hal in his first year starting? Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, Veterans Center is just somebody that has seen it all, basically.

And you just kind of need that to, like you said, help Sam Howell and put everything on his shoulders. All right. Let's talk about the draft, and let's start with Emmanuel Forbes. What did you make of the pick and what do you make of the player? Yeah, I mean, it's just kind of been a typical, you know, Rivera pick these past couple years where he's found a guy that, you know, they really, really like and they're not afraid to kind of, you know, quote unquote reach for him based on, you know, the consensus mock draft. And that worked out really well with Jehan Dawson last year. We don't really know how that works with Mathis just because of the injury. But he was not my favorite corner. I think, you know, I got a lot of stick from this, but I think his ball hawk label is, is a little. little overblown. I mean, if you just look at the six picks he had last year, I can make a great, I mean, that he was beaten on five of them, and it was just a really bad throw by the

quarterback or some sort of deflection. But that's not to say that when the ball is in the air and he has a chance to make the play, he will make to play. And that's something that you can't really teach a lot of corners. So even if there is some luck involved with it, I think that's still, you know, a good trait to have. But when we're talking about just coverage, when he's playing, you know, off coverage playing a little bit, you know, often he's reading Realt and reacting to them. He's got, you know, kind of a great first. He's a smart guy who knows.

He understands the route concept. So I don't have any problem with that. There's some moments in Pressman where he gets a little jumpy. He will bite on every single double move. He's kind of, I comp him a little bit to Trayvon digs in the fact that there's a lot of boom or bust here, where that you will have plays where he's burnt by 30 yards, but then you'll have a play where he has a pay.

pick six because it's, you know, just kind of falling into his arms and he just makes a great play out of it. That's not to say he's going to become Traymond-Dix, but it's just kind of the, you know, the boomer-buss sort of thing with the corner. But he has that, you know, that aggressive mindset that you need at the cornerback position. We taught with Josh Norman, you need that type of guy who just, he needs to be an

alpha, he needs to be the type of guy that thinks he's never going to get beaten, even if he does, he'll come back again and get right in your face. That's what you need from the corners. I think his side's concern He's a bit overblown I think his wing fan's great Makes up for the fact that he might not be in perfect coverage all the time He's not afraid to throw his body in there

I think it's tackling me a little bit of work But you're really not asking him to tackle too much He just kind of throws his body in there So overall Maybe not my favorite pick in the world But I've been wrong before And so hopefully wrong again Who was your favorite corner

I like Christian Gonzalez. I just thought he was, I just thought he was, you know, more, I thought he was just safer. And that's just kind of what I wanted from the corner. I think he's just someone I would have liked. But we'll see with Forbes. I think, like I said, he has a lot of boom or buff potential. And you can see a lot of great plays for him this next year, but you could also see a lot of really bad ones. Hopefully we get the more of the better place.

All right. Before I ask how you see Forbes fitting in defensively, let's go to Kwan Martin, their second round pick, because he's going to factor into how they play defense as well. What did you make, again, of the player? And, you know, to a less of extent when we get to the second round and beyond, I'm less concerned with where you thought he was picked. But do you like Juan Martin? Yeah, no, I do kind of like this pick.

I think he's going to fill a lot of roles at one time. We've heard it said multiple times. I was your first step out. I mean, you can line him up everywhere. He had over 100 snaps of the deep safety. He had, you know, over 400 snaps in the slot. He played out wide. He played in the box.

He can play everywhere. It allows you to be, it allows you to kind of design your coverage that are better, kind of, you know, throw the offense off a bit when you can have him line up in the slot and then rotate him into a deep half safety. You can have him play all these sort of positions. You can have him follow a run. running back out to the flat and then kind of peel off in his own. So I like these type of players.

I like guys. They can play multiple positions. And it's not that he can just be there. He's also pretty good at it. I mean, I saw a lot that he's playing off coverage. Again, the burst forwards the ball when it's in the air is great. Smart guy. He knows what he's really.

He knows what's in front of him. And that's pretty impressive when, again, in different spots on the field. He knows his role every single time. So I think that's a great spot. But my big concern with him is man coverage. I think he is way, way, way too physical at the top of the route. He would much rather try to bump a guy and get hands on you instead of just kind of reading and reacting. If he does read and react, he can run with a lot of people.

He can stay in the hip pocket. So man coverage is a big work in progress, but I think the rest is something really intriguing. His versatility is incredible. So how do you see them, you know, this year, obviously no Bobby McCain, and in many ways Kwan Martin is the Bobby McCain replacement, I think, in their mind's eye anyway. How do you see them lining up? You know, they got five DBSs on the field, which they had a lot of last year. You know, sometimes one of them in that Buffalo nickel position, a hybrid linebacker position.

You know, it's the opener. it's September 10th, the first time they've got five DBs on the field. Who are they and where do they line up? Yeah, I think you would see Martin in the slot. I think you'd see Fuller on one side, pink juice on the other, and then you would have Pearl and Forrest out there as well. And I think that's a really, really solid young core of players that you can mix and match in different spots.

I think every single one of them, whether it was in college or in the NFL, have played in multiple spots and played there well. I think maybe St. Juice might be the only one that has it, but if I remember correctly, he played some slot in college. But, yeah, no, all of those guys can mix and match well, and that's just an incredible, incredible thing to have for a defensive coordinator where you can really, really discuss coverage as well when you can have different guys play effectively in different spots.

So you didn't have a manual Forbes out on that first, you know, Oh, right. I think it depends on St. Juice, you know, injury-wise, but we'll see after preseason, but I think you could see Forbes or St. Juice out there. I think Martin will be the slot guy, and then obviously two safety. So I think it's kind of up to Forbes and St. Juice, you know, out wide in that second spot. Yeah, I think you're right about that. First of all, Forbes is an outside guy. You agree with that, right? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And St. Juice did play some in the slot when, William Jackson was there.

And Fuller's obviously played in the slot before. But I am pretty sure they drafted Kwan Martin because they saw him in the Bobby McCain role. And we saw Bobby McCain cover the slot a lot. And by the way, be versatile, as you said, to take a back out of the back field or to play in the box. And I think they see Kwan Martin as that replacement. So it'll come down to, you know, it's St. Juice Fuller and Forbes. You'll have two of the three out on the field. but they'll probably end up rotating them

and giving maybe all three of them a third of the, you know, two-thirds of the snaps. Yeah, I think it's really come down. When St. Juice was healthy, he was a pretty solid corner last year. And I think, again, his length is a huge key. And just if he stays on the field, I mean, it's a good problem to have. I've always said you can never have too many good corners. It's just make your defense so much better, makes it more versatile. You can do so much more with it.

So it's a really good problem to have. Before we get to the rest of their draft, we haven't talked in a while. What do you think about the Chase Young fifth year option not being picked up? I mean, I kind of make sense as to why they did it. I think it's just he's got to prove it now. I mean, we saw his rookie year. The rookie year was great. And then obviously the injury really derailed everything.

But, I mean, if he comes down and perused this year, I don't think you'll have a problem of resigning him. I just, I don't know, it's such a weird spot because of what that injury really did to him and he hasn't really kind of come back. But I think it's just kind of a, it's a pervert kind of year for him. All right. Nick Ackertz from Pro Football Focus is with us. We'll get to his thoughts on the rest of the draft right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Nick Ackridge from Pro Football Focus, joining us.

And again, you can follow Nick and I do on Twitter at PFF underscore Nick Ackridge. All right, let's get to the rest of the draft and let's go rounds three and four, the two offensive linemen that they selected. Ricky Stromberg, a center from Arkansas in the third round, and then Braden Daniels in the fourth. I really like the Stromberg pick. whenever you can get a four-year starting center in the SEC, I think that's just a great pick just based off of that.

But, I mean, watching him, he might struggle with power that he's had undersized, but he's super quick out of the snap. Great first step, super smart. Eyes are always looking for the next block. There's so many plays with him working stunts perfectly, kind of exchanging, you know, twists and all that sort of. stuff well. I'm a huge fan of this pick. I think you can kind of look up in like five, six years and just be a, you know, a great starting center in the NFL. That's great. That's the

first I've heard somebody really raving about Ricky Stromberg, not about his career at Arkansas, but about sort of where he was picked and the kind of player he could be, he would become. I think the one criticism, I'm very much sort of always. always when it comes to the draft, Nick, like, look, the teams barely know, so what do we really know, kind of an attitude? And so when I hear all these people talking about, you know, overreached here or underreached, underpicked it, whatever. Ricky Stromberg, the one thing, and Ben Standing said this to me, and I thought it made sense. He's like, look, you know, typically you want your third rounder to contribute much sooner rather than later. And they

signed Nick Gates. They re-signed Tyler Larson. So if there's any criticism of the pick, it would be that they picked a center in the third round, and he probably won't contribute for a while. Do you agree that he won't contribute for a while? I mean, you see their future starting center, which is great, but starting when in 2024? If it was me, I wouldn't see a problem starting him right away. I mean, he has the experience. I think the only question is if he can hold up physically, and he did in the SEC for four years. So I don't see any problem with it. He played guard one year as a freshman, but you're never going to play him there again. He's a center in the NFL, and I think I wouldn't be surprised if he's starting right away.

Like I said, I'm a huge fan of his, and then I think you can get, you know, like Gates and Larson as those rotational backup sort of guys. But even, again, if they falter at all, I don't think you would be too concerned turning to Strongberg as the backup. All right. Braden Daniels, fourth round. Ron talked about him being a tackle for them. How do you see it? Yeah, I mean, I can see that as well. Really just, it's a strange one because he's experienced, but he's also still really raw in the sense that he's a great athlete, really explosive. But when he goes into contact, you have no idea what you're going to get. He could either drive a guy into the ground or just completely whiff. There's a lot of work that needs to be done on that. sort of side of it, but you can't really teach his athleticism, his explosion. I did kind of see him more of a guard just because when you can get him pulling as a guard, you can see a lot more success there.

But I wouldn't hate it as a tackle either. I just think you really, really need to work on how he approaches contact and how he can kind of control his own athleticism better. Yeah, I didn't spend a lot of time talking about him, but over the weekend I actually just watched a little bit more tape of some of these guys. What was amazing, and I didn't really even know this last week, he is super athletic. And what you just said, like, I could see him Brandon Sheriff's

on a screen, you know, with, by the way, you know, decent size, look, as a guard, decent size, not necessarily as a tackle, and just being able to run with whomever has the ball, Gibson or anybody else. I mean, he is an athlete for that position. Yeah, absolutely is. You know, Utah used him as a tackle and they used him pulling a lot. They had a pretty unique run game. So you saw him out in space a lot.

And like I said, he just needs to control his own explosion, if that makes any sense. That's what you need to, that's what good coaches do. So hopefully we can kind of see that control. And I think he can be a contributor. Yeah, he's got to hit the target, not miss it. He's there. He's just got to make contact with it. All right, before we get to the running back,

tell me about the two pass rushers, KJ Henry and Andre Jones, in the fifth and seventh rounds. Yeah, KJ Henry is a type of guy, just high floor type of guy, low ceiling high floor. You're not, I don't think you're ever going to really see him be a, you know, top-tier edge rusher, but I don't think you'll ever see him out of the league, if that makes sense. I think he's very strong, strong hands.

and it feels like every single pass rush win that I saw was with some sort of inside move. He does not have much bend or explosion out of, you know, out of the edge position there. But inside with strong hands, I think he can be, you know, a nice little counter to someone like Chase Young, who, you know, we love to see that burst, that explosion off the edge of that you can kind of counter that was with Henry with those inside moves or strong hands. So, you know, I think he's a high floor type of guy. And Andre Jones is, I don't know, I haven't really seen much of him. I watched some of his pastros wins, and again, you know, the type of guy's experience

500 plus NASF, you know, the past four years. And I think if all kind of works out for him, he could be, you know, a rotational sort of edge piece as well. And that I think it's feeling, really. Chris Rodriguez, they drafted a running back in the sixth round from Kentucky. What did you think of that pick? Yeah, again, high floor type of guy. you're not going to really get much explosion out of him.

He's not going to, you know, run or outrun people, but he's tough to bring down. He's going to get three yards when there's only one yard there. He's going to get four when there's only two and stuff like that. He's just going to be a tough guy to tackle. He's not going to offer much in the receiving game. But, yeah, not really agile or loose if he will just run through people. Sometimes that's all you need. So overall, what did you?

think of the draft? It sounds like you're pretty positive about a lot of the players. Yeah, I think the only question that I really had was Emmanuel Forbes, and I think that's kind of like a boom or bust pick. And if that turns out well, I think you could see a really good draft. I think I like the Martin pick, the Stromberg pick, and then you kind of take Daniels, who is a raw or tackle and see if you can kind of mold that into something, and then you have a lot of high floor players. So I think overall it's a pretty solid draft, obviously, we won't know for a couple more years. But I was pretty pleased.

Great job, as always. Much appreciated at PFF underscore Nick Ackeridge, everybody. I will talk to you soon. Yep, appreciate it. Thanks, John. All right, that is it for the show today. Back tomorrow, I'll have the full mock schedule with Tommy.