The Kevin Sheehan Show - More Snyder and SVP

Episode Date: May 24, 2019

Kevin opened up the show with more on the 20-year anniversary of Dan Snyder's ownership of the Redskins. Scott Van Pelt called in and weighed in on the Snyder era too. Kevin and Scott talked Raptors-Bucks Game 5, Brooks Koepka, and Scott had a Stanley Cup pick. Ben Standig/NBC Sports Washington was in-studio with an update on the Wizards' GM search and possible Bradley Beal trades. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here, and this show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation. And tell them we told you to call. There's a huge savings opportunity, plus tickets to Hershey Park. I'll have more information on that when we get to Window Nation and more detail later in the show. Scott Van Pelt will be on the show today, missed him yesterday. Ben Standing will be on the show today, and I'm having Ben on today because he just wrote about the trading of Bradley Beale and the kind of compensation that Bradley Beale could bring the Wizards. We're going to talk to him about that more. Obviously, it becomes even more interesting after Bradley Beal did not make one of the top three NBA teams yesterday.

Therefore, he is not eligible for a Supermax contract. extension, which I would imagine that the wizard's ownership, they don't have a GM right now, as much as they root for Bradley and would have loved to have seen him named to one of the top three NBA teams, they don't have to now deal with that, which would have been obviously devastating potentially to their salary cap with him and Wall, both on Supermax deals. I actually think it makes it easier to trade him that he's not on a Supermax extension. We'll talk to Ben about that in more detail. I'm going to get to the Raptors Bucks game five in a moment.

I was very happy about the result last night. I did not bet the game last night, Aaron, but I did say that I thought the Bucks would win. We'll get into it in more detail, but I'm just glad I've been wrong about Toronto in this series because I have enjoyed watching Kauai Leonard more than any player in this postseason. Real quickly, though, I wanted to read a tweet from the show about the show yesterday. There was lots of reaction to the conversation

that Tom and I had about the 20-year anniversary of Dan Snyder's ownership of the Redskins. Tomorrow marks exactly 20 years ago, May 25th, 1999 that Snyder got approved and for $800 million, he became the owner of the Redskins. Yesterday was something that, we sort of broke down the best things that Dan Snyder's done, the worst things he's done. We talked about why the ownership has failed and been an abject failure and why it might potentially get better or how it would get better. But on the list of things that Dan Snyder's done well, that was a brief conversation. You know, there's not a whole lot to pick from. And I selected the hiring of Joe Gibbs is the best thing that he's done as an owner, and Tommy selected the actual original

hiring of Marty Schottenheimer. What I forgot, and I would say that it's me more than Tom, although Tom's not a big change-the-name guy. I forgot something that Robert on Twitter reminded me of. He tweeted to me at Kevin Sheen, D.C., great discussion about Snyder's era with Tom Leverro yesterday. I'm very surprised you didn't mention as a positive for Danny Boy, his reluctance to change the team's name. So maybe Kevin, there could have been a worse owner after all. So yes, absolutely. I am surprised that I forgot to mention that, and I should have mentioned that,

because it is very easy to think that a more liberal-leaning owner, all right, I'll use that as the description, would have caved to the, pressure to change the team's name. And when I say pressure, I'm talking certainly about, you know, the media, some people in the media, and certainly some Native American tribes as well. But whether it's been Dan's stubbornness or his adamant fandom and personal belief that the name has always been positive and complimentary of Native Americans, whatever it is, I, whatever the reasons are I am glad that he hasn't bent to some of that pressure. Now, I wonder, and I don't think this is true, but I wonder if Dan, my view on this, and many of you know this, but I'll just

net it out. My view has always been, I am super open-minded to the possibility of changing the team's name if the data and the facts actually supported the notion that Native Americans were largely offended by the name. The problem is, for me, and I've been patient on this, I've waited, there isn't that data. That data doesn't exist. In fact, the data reflects the opposite. You know, the Washington Post poll in 2016 indicating that 90% of Native Americans didn't consider the team's name to be offensive. You know, that's about as, you know, as much recent information, you know, there was always that Annenberg study from 2004 or whatever. and all of the name changers always said,

that's outdated information. And I would say, well, where's your information? Like, I'm open to it. Give me the information that shows that Native Americans don't view this word and this team name to be very insensitive. And certainly there are some tribes. And I think you have to look into all of those to find out what the reasons are. But we know that there are majority Native American high schools in this country that still have red, is a team nickname despite pressure to change it themselves.

And they've said, no, we're Native Americans. We're proud of the name. So there's a lot of, obviously there's been a lot of information on this, and there's a lot to sort of sift through. The bottom line is much of the information, the polling data, has reflected that Native Americans really don't consider the team's name to be offensive. So while I'm completely open-minded, and I would never want to be hurtful to, you know, an entire culture, and I'd be the first to say, let's change the name, it's racist, it's insensitive,

it hurts people when we sing hail to the Redskins. There's just never been the data to support what a lot of people who have profited from being very outraged by it, by being offended, they've tried to shove that decision down our throat and down the team owner's throat for a lot of years without the supporting data. Give us the proof. The problem is that the Washington Post poll in 2016, you know, and I know people will say on the other side, they'll say, who did they poll? I mean, it was a small group, and they handpicked the Native Americans that were pulled. Well, why would the post do that? I mean, the nature of the Post is that most of us believe that the Post would have preferred that the opposite be what came out of that poll, that 90% of Native Americans wanted the team to

change its name. But it didn't come out that way. Anyway, whatever Dan's reasons have been, and maybe they have been, that he's been patient on this subject, that he's been open-minded on this subject, but he's waited, like some of us, we've waited for the proof. Maybe that's it. My sense is that he's just been very stubborn, that he grew up a Redskins fan, as many of us and he just doesn't believe that anybody could be offended by a football team's nickname. But whatever the reasons are, yes, I think that that is a positive because I think there are many people. And he's had significant, meaningful business reasons not to change the name. I've gone through this a million times.

But when you have a brand that has an attached longstanding loyalty to it, When you change significant aspects of that brand, you risk losing significant value in that organization attached to not only the name, but the team colors, the team logo, the team fight song, all of that. Dan's understood that. He's a marketing guy. All right. It is not, you know, in his best interest. It's never been in his best interest. And people on the other side who have suggested that, wow, if he changes the team name, he'll have this incredible influx of new.

revenue because they'll be buying the new merchandise with the new logo and the new team name. That is a less than tens of millions of dollars in new revenue versus the loss of potentially a billion or more in valuation by changing a significant aspect of a brand. Just ask Procter & Gamble, or ask Coke or ask McDonald's, ask why they don't change their name or change their logo. I'm not putting the Redskins on that same level, but when you have a long-standing 80-year-plus brand and you change it, massive risk.

And the only way to overcome the expected loss of valuation by changing significant aspects of your brand is to win immediately and win big immediately. And of course, with this franchise, that was the risk of changing the brand, even more than changing the brand, because winning big has never happened under this ownership. But yes, I am, I think that's been a good thing.

And I do think that other potential owners may have caved and bent to the pressure, despite the preponderance of evidence that's indicated over the years that the significant majority of Native Americans aren't offended. My suggestion, by the way, five years running now, has been to create a second non-pejorative definition of the word. Redskins noun the professional football team that plays in Washington. Because for the last half century, if not longer, when someone has used that word anywhere,

you have not thought to yourself if somebody has said, hey, two Redskins just walked into the restaurant. No one thinks two Native Americans just walked into the restaurant. They will think, oh my God, is Dwayne Hassey? here is Montez Sweat here. Who's, which redskin is it? That's how the word has been used for over a half century. Language evolves.

And there's even debate as to whether it was truly insensitive from the jump anyway when we're talking about late 19th century, this 19th century and early 20th century. I don't want to get into that. I just think all of this could be solved. And I don't even know at this point if it's still, I think it's really died down. I think the post poll in 2016 quieted the change name effort to a certain degree. But I do think that the Redskins should try to get Webster's and other dictionaries to create a second non-pejorative definition of the word.

We have that all throughout the dictionary, multiple second definitions. And a second non-pejorative definition, Redskins noun, the professional football team that plays in Washington, would eventually quiet, I think, everybody. Anyway, real quickly, I mentioned briefly this, but Bradley Beale not making the third team. I was actually surprised at that, Aaron. I did think that Bradley Beal was going to make one.

I thought he was going to make the third team. And I guess ultimately it was Kemble Walker was basically picked in front of Bradley Beal. And I think Kemble Walker is a really good player. By the way, as an aside, many of you really had a problem with me saying I'd take McCollum over Beal. I mean, I just, I'm a Beal fan, but I've never thought Beal to be elite. There have been aspects of Beal's game over the years that have driven me crazy. And I actually think McCollum is a more complete player. But that aside, it's very, very close.

And Beal has developed into a very good NBA score. I still would not put him anywhere near an elite level. level of score. But I was surprised that he didn't make the third team after the year he had, especially without, you know, Wall. Wanted to mention the Nats, because I watched the last few winnings of the game yesterday. And I was on Tony's show this morning, and he believes, and I guess who wrote this morning, I think Barry wrote that he thinks Davy needs to go. But the Nats, once again, the bullpen, Suero came in and gave up a three-run shot, and the Nats, had gotten the lead four to three after Dave Martinez got tossed on a bad call on Howie Kendrick.

And when I say a bad call, it was a check swing that was called a strike by the umpire, and the umpire never, ever gave the first base umpire a chance to confirm or, or not confirm the check swing. First of all, it did not look like a strike to me, did not look like he, he broke that plane. Secondly, the umpire should have gone to the first base umpire, which is what Howie Kendrick, I think, asked him to do. And then he threw out Kendrick. And out comes Dave Martinez and Aaron, I don't know if you felt this in the moment. I was watching it live, but I'm like, this is a guy that's desperate. This is a guy that's so frustrated right now.

They were down 3-1 at the time. It was the top of the eighth inning. And he is, you know, I don't know if he's creating a show to create this aura of how much he wants to win or how I just think it was frustration coming to a head in that moment. He's kicking dirt on the on the on home plate. He got tossed. Did you think it was a bad call, first of all? I mean, yeah, to not even check with the field umpire.

Yeah, it's clearly a bad call. That was crazy for him not to do that. But what was interesting is after Kendrick got tossed and after Dave Martinez got tossed, then Nat's rallied. They had a great rest of the inning. You know, it was Soto walked and then do, And then Robles singled. It was a, you know, a bloop single to write,

and then Goams doubled and Soto scored, and now it's all of a sudden three to two. And then Parra. I think at one point the count against Parra was one and two. He was behind in the count, I believe. And he comes up, and he drills a single to right field, and here comes Robles and Gomes, and now the gnats are up for three.

And I was thinking, man, this could be a turning point for them. If they can win this game and sweep the Marlins, how good would that feel come early next week? By the way, the Marlins won six in a row now as they come into D.C. for a four-game weekend weekend set. But what has happened to the Nats many, many times is here comes the bullpen. It's Swero, and he gives up a three-run shot to Gomez in the bottom of the eighth, and they lose six to four. And now whatever their bullpen number is, it's still historic, because it's, didn't get any better yesterday. But the Nats drop a game to the Mets in which the Nats actually generated some offense with respect to hits.

They had 13 hits in the game, but they are now 10 games behind the Phillies in the National League East and 11 games under 500. And I think Gary Braun said this morning on Tony's show. I think he said something like they've got to go 71 and 41 to win 90 games. which would give them a shot potentially to win the division. They're not going 71 and 41. I'm looking at this division and they're very blessed to be in a bad

division, at least at the top. With respect to it, there's not a great team, but they've got way too much ground to cover. The other teams would have to implode in reality they'd have to have one of those years where like 84 or 85 or 86 wins

is good enough to win a division. and even that it's a long shot right you know it's one of those things you know i've been saying it for the past few weeks now just you know what are we doing here well so there are people now that believe that yesterday you know sets up now a a series with the marlins remember the marlins had swept the Mets now the Mets swept the Nats now the Marlins all of a sudden they've gone from being the worst team in the league i think they still may be or the Orioles may be right now or the Royals, but they have a six-game win streak coming in to Nats Park for a four-game set. Do you fire, I know you would fire him today before this series starts,

but if they go one and three against the Marlins, does he make it past Memorial Day or not? I would say no, but if they haven't fired him today, what changes four days from now? that's where I'm starting to get with this Well, the perception of losing to a really bad team The Mets are a really bad team Well, they've got better starting pitching I guess Like the Mets are

I mean, the Marlins just swept the Mets I know That may be the biggest surprise of the last two weeks Is that the Marlins have a sick I think they've got the longest win streak In the major leagues right now So that's kind of where I'm at right now Is the Mets aren't very good either

If you want to say they're a little better than the Marlins, fine. But the Mets were reeling coming into this series. They had just gotten swept. Cespitus had just broken his ankles or whatever happened exactly there. Like, it was a mess for the Mets and they got swept by them. Now, maybe you're just waiting until the end of the home. I believe this is just a four-game set and then they go back out on the Earth. Maybe they're just waiting for that.

But, yeah, if it goes much longer, I really start getting the feeling that, you know, they're just not going to deal with it this season. They'll deal with it in the off season. I mean, the learners when it comes to the manager position have been cheap. They, they, in many ways, as Tommy mentioned yesterday, they were ahead of the curve and not paying managers. Why would they pick up a new salary and pay the rest of Dave Martinez's salary when they're not going anywhere this year anyway? And that's kind of what I'm starting to think is their mindset. Yeah, I mean, I would lean to that sort of intuitive. without having sort of, you know, the conversations with Tommy and others that, you know,

they don't put all of this on Dave Martinez. They put it, you know, initially on a lot of the injuries. And then the bullpen, which is not necessarily Dave Martinez's responsibility. Do you think he's mismanaged a talented bullpen? No, nobody thinks that, right? No, no way. Well, I think that, no, definitely not mismanaged a talented bullpen, no. Has he mismanaged a bad bullpen?

I think it's possible to say this season is not his fault, while also saying we have seen Dave Martinez manage for 210 games, and in those 210 games, there hasn't been a lot to say, hey, this guy's a good manager you should be going forward with. I think that that is exactly the way you have to think, if you're the owner or the general manager. You have to, at this point, 210 games in, you know, you know what you have. You don't have to look at the injuries and the impact of the injuries.

You know whether or not he can manage or whether or not you think you've got a future great manager on your hands. And if you think that's true, then you stick with it. You stick with him because there's really no benefit to changing anything right now unless you think there's a business benefit. Unless you believe that if you keep Dave Martinez, you're going to see 12, 13,000 a night show up to the park. and that changing the managerial position will somehow help your business. Personally, I don't think that would happen unless they hired Buck Show Walter, unless they hired a big name manager, unless they brought Dusty back. But if they don't do that and they just elevate somebody from within or...

I'm curious about Randy Norr. There is a... But that's not a business reason. No one's going to get excited about Randy Norr being elevated to being the manager. There is a lot of fondness within the fan base. Now, you could say that the fondness is for... from the people who would be coming out anyways. I would say that.

I would say that. And that's probably the case. But there would be a feel-good aspect to giving Randy Nor the job. All right. Well, big weekend. I think I am going on Sunday. I think I'm going to go Sunday. All right.

I want to get to Raptors bucks. I, first of all, I'll tell you in a little while why I had to watch this game on DVR last night, without knowing the score, but very late last night. I'll tell you about that here in a bit. But I am so happy that Toronto won that game and the way they won it.

After starting poorly, the buck, the buck's coming out, you know, building a huge lead early in that game. You know, it's a game five, a pivotal game seven, in a seven game series. Milwaukee's back at home after being embarrassed in game four. And they get off to an 18 to 4 start. And at that point, would anybody have taken Toronto? on the money line. No one would have with that start because we've seen that before in game fives in NBA playoff series. It's like the home team comes out, they jump out and they bury the opponent quickly and the opponent says, you know what, we're going to have to win game six and

then come back here and win game seven. But Toronto chipped away. They chipped away because they have right now, I guess you could argue Steph Curry. But Kauai Leonard, I think from a offense, From an offensive and a defensive standpoint is the best player right now playing in the postseason. And you know what? The truth of the matter is, even with Durant's start and even with some of the games that Hardin's had or Janice's had or Steph's had, Kauai Leonard's been the best player in these playoffs. His numbers in the first few series were outrageous. I think he ended up shooting like close to 60% in those first two series from the floor.

he on basically one leg at times last night. He's clearly hampered. He carried them in a big spot on the road. When they signed Kauai Leonard in the offseason last year, I picked Toronto to get to the NBA finals. And I said, Toronto's got a good team and Lowry's a good player. And by the way, I actually was fine with Dwayne Casey staying on. I think if Dwayne Casey had stayed on, I think he's a good coach.

I think he just didn't have the, you know, what he didn't have is he didn't have a top five player. If you don't have a top five player, you cannot compete for an NBA championship. And Kauai Leonard is proving that in a place and with a franchise that always came up short in the postseason, short of where they thought they could go with guys like Derozen and Lowry. Kauai Leonard's a top three to top five player. And he's totally turned around Toronto's fortunes. I picked them before the playoffs to get to the Eastern Conference Finals, but after watching Milwaukee, I got talked into picking Milwaukee.

In fact, Scott's one of the people that talked to me into it, because he picked Milwaukee from the beginning of the playoffs, and he's like, they're just so much better. Look at how many games they've won by double digits or by 15 points or more. And then I watched them against, by the way, a gutless Boston team, gutless. I mean, Kyrie Irving cowardly in that series, loser. But still, Milwaukee was so dominant, and they couldn't check Janus. and then after they won the first two games of this series, I'm like, yeah, they're going to win.

It's too bad because I'd love to see Kauai Leonard play a little bit more, but it's going to end for them in Eastern Conference finals because guess what? Janus is a top five player too. So the Bucks have one also. But then they won game three in double overtime, and then they blew them out in game four. And then last night, Kauai Leonard, with basically the responsibility of playing great defense at times against Janus. I think Yonis was two for seven. and head up against Kauai last night. Kauai also draws the entire defense and has to facilitate.

He had nine assists last night. The real key to the game beyond Leonard's brilliance was Van Vleet, who was seven for nine from behind the arc, seven for 13 overall. And in the games, in those first two games, I think Van Vleet and game two was one for 11 or something like that. That actually may have been game three, but they weren't knocking down those shots.

But Norman Powell and Van Vleet and Lowry, Green missed everything he looked at last night. But they're knocking down the shots off of Leonard facilitating. Leonard's drawing to three guys at times and finding the right guy on one leg, basically. I don't want to exaggerate it. He's healthy enough to be playing, and to be playing, you know, 40 plus minutes. He played 52 in the double overtime game. He played 40 last night.

And then in the fourth quarter, he took over with the game on the, the line, them down three entering that fourth quarter. He took over. He had 15 points in the fourth quarter. I think he ended up either scoring or assisting on 24 of their 33 points in the fourth quarter. He was brilliant. Nine assists, seven rebounds, two steals. He comes up with two to three steals in every single one of these games. He is absolutely right now the best two-way player in these playoffs and has been from the start. And he's a top three to top five player. We can argue, you know, it's, it's, you know, we know who the players are. He's in that group. He's elite. He's not in the next cut down. He is that great. And I think now, and I'll probably be wrong about this, but I think they're

going to go home on Saturday night, tomorrow night, and close it out and get to the NBA finals. What's interesting, though, is I, Janus, by the way, you never know anything about the NBA until they play in the postseason. You don't know anything about players, teams, until they play all of these games that matter, and teams figure out ways to really stop people because it's the defense that changes more than anything else in the postseason. And watch what Toronto does to Janus.

He's got nowhere to go. I mean, have you watched the way five players basically create a wall? And he's forcing it, and he's not making great passes. and I don't know how many turnovers he had last night, two or three last night, but a couple of near turnovers. He's been made to look so uncomfortable. And part of it is when Leonard's matched up against him because Leonard's such a great defender,

but it's really a team defensive thing. And Milwaukee's got to rely on other guys. Brogden, Bledsoe, Middleton, you know, George Hill, who, by the way, has been phenomenal in this postseason. You know, he's the perfect example of playoff experience, and what guys can do at a certain age and a sport that has outrageous athleticism for younger guys. How old's George Hill at this point? He's been around forever. He's got to be in his early 30s at the youngest. He's 33 years old. He's been so good in this postseason. But they've got the best player.

Janus certainly is an elite talent. But right now, Kauai Leonard is a much better all-around post-season. season player. And he's proving it. I hope they wrap it up. What I was going to say is the irony of all of this is that I think if Milwaukee advanced without Durant, I think the series odds, Aaron, would be Golden State as a slight favorite. I think with Toronto in the NBA finals, I think Golden State's going to be a healthy favorite over Toronto, meaning that I think Vegas views Milwaukee is a much bigger threat to beat Golden State than Toronto. But Kauai is better than anything Milwaukee has right now. And I wouldn't count them out because I did count them out.

I counted them out of this series before it started, and I certainly counted them out when they were down to nothing in this series. And that was a mistake because he is that good. And for those of you that aren't paying attention to the NBA playoffs or only pay attention for the NBA finals, you're really missing an historic run of excellent two-way play by Kauai Leonard, who has a good team around him, right? Siakum's a nice young player.

Lowry's played well. Gassal hit a big three late after missing every other look he had. Their bench, which at times has not been great, has really stepped up with Pal, Abaka, and Van Vleet. They're an entertaining team. And by the way, that city is going to, that arena with Drake, Jesus God, they've got to keep them off the floor Saturday night. But that arena is going to be, I mean, for them, for the first time to have on their racket, on their home floor, a chance to go to the NBA finals, that place is going to be nuts. So lastly, I just wanted to mention why I actually had to DVR the game last night.

I went to see a band called American Football at the Black Cat down on 14th Street, which has always been such a great venue. I love venues that are like whatever that is, 800 to 1,000 people, Aaron. I love the 930 Club, too. The 930 Club, I think, is bigger. But they were at the Black Cat last night. Some of you may know who American football is, but American football actually is my son, who is actually in a band of his own.

It's his favorite band, and they are from sort of that emo genre. They came out with their first LP in 1999, broke up. They're from Illinois. All the guys, I think, went to the University of Illinois. They broke up, and then that album took on a life of its own, and they've had a very huge but sort of cultish following. So this is them. and the story last night, and the reason I'm sharing this,

is because the lead singer, Mike Kinsella, is doing the show, and at one point during the show, he says to the audience, hey, how's everybody doing? Everybody's doing great. What do you want to talk about? You want to talk about sports?

You want to talk about politics. And I hear two La Cheezerie chants that come out of the crowd. La Chisiery. being one of the Tony Cornheiser show, you know, sayings. And one of the guys was near me, and I went up to him, and I said, why did you just scream La Cheezery? And he said, oh, I'm a big fan of the Tony Cornheuser show podcast.

And I said, oh, that's great. I said, but why did you yell it in this context? And he said, well, the lead singer of the band is a huge fan of the Cornheiser podcast. And then he looks at me, and he said, my, you know, since I, since Tony went to the podcast and I wasn't on it for a long period of time and now I'm back on it occasionally they refer to me as Kip Sheemann.

Some of you know that, some of you don't. And the guy just looks at me, he goes, Kip? And I said, yeah. And he said, oh my God, you know, I listened to you on Tony and I listened to your podcast. I'm a big D.C. sports fan. And I said, so the lead singer's a huge Kornhizer fan. And he said, yes. So after the show, to make a long story short,

my son walks up to the stage. He's a huge fan of the band. and he grabs their set list from their drummer. And then this guy, Mike Kinsella, walks out, and my son wants him to sign the set list, and he introduces himself, and he said, Dad, come over here. And I just said, hey, nice to meet you, I'm Kevin Sheehan.

And he just stops dead in his tracks. And he goes, Kevin Sheehan from 980, from Kornheiser's show? And I said, yeah. Well, I just became the biggest hero in the eyes of my son immediately. but to make a longer story even shorter. The nicest, sweetest guy, by the way, super talented, an incredibly influential band. Some of you probably know that and some of you don't,

but very influential as a band. And he invited us backstage and downstairs to have a couple of beers and chat for a while, and we were there for about an hour, and he couldn't have been a nicer guy. So if you've never heard American football, just get them on Spotify. And, you know, it's, I love the band. They're awesome.

They were great last night. It was really great to meet Mike, who couldn't have been a nicer guy. He actually said, I'm going to get up early and I'm going to come to Tony's show because I was on Tony's show this morning at Tony's restaurant chatter and Friendship Heights. And I said, yeah, we're starting at 715 this morning. And he said, I'll be there. And of course, I walked out thinking he's a rock star. He's not going to get up and come all the way to Friendship Heights at 715.

And he didn't post, but he actually tweeted my son and said, I had the alarm set for PM, not AM. But I think they're on their way to New York before they're touring, I think, in Europe and Asia after that. But American football, awesome band, meeting Mike Concello was a real treat last night. And to find out that he's actually a huge fan of the Kornhizer show, was so much fun as well. All right, quick word about Window Nation, and then we will get to Scott.

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Call today, buy one window, get one free. There's no limit plus zero percent interest for five full years and bonus tickets to Hershey Park. Call today, 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com and tell them I told you to call. All right, let's bring in Scott Van Pelt. missed him yesterday. That was my fault. I apologize to you. We got wrapped up into a long conversation about, believe it or not, the 20-year anniversary of Dan Snyder owning the Redskins. It's been 20 years of his ownership. And we were just, we got wrapped up into just trying to come up with anything that he's done well during his 20 years of owning the team. And my number, well, my number one was hiring Joe Gibbs. I mean, will you ever forget that? Like, just came out of nowhere. Like, it's their first, I call it their first rock bottom moment during his ownership tenure, the end of Spurrier, which was just a disaster.

And where was he going to turn? Like, who was going to take the gig? He had fired Marty Schottenheimer after one year when Marty went eight and three over his final 11 games with Tony Banks at quarterback. And, you know, he went with Spurrier, which was an utter disaster. And somehow he pulled a huge rabbit out. out of a hat and hired Gibbs. Yeah, I mean, you know, the nostalgia of it all was, you know, exciting.

But, I mean, think about it. That's as good as it got. Yes, it is as good as it got. And Joe Gibbs had a losing record here the second go-around. But they were in the playoffs two of his four years, you know, backdooring their way into the playoffs. But nonetheless, you know, they basically, during the Snyder era, they're, been two playoff wins, Scott, but the first one came in his first year. When he tried to turn the Brad Johnson trade around, he wanted it rescinded after he took ownership of it. Fortunately,

he didn't get his way, and Brad Johnson got him to a playoff game, and they won a playoff game, but the only other playoff game won was Gibbs in 2005. They won a wild card round game at Tampa. What other business could you possibly be in where you could run things as poorly as this has been runs fail as much as he's failed and massively increased the value of your investment. Not many. Not many. It's the nature of this league. I mean, it's just incredible how powerful it is and how it really dwarfs everything else and even, you know, the worst franchises. The thing about this franchise, you know, and one of the reasons the value keeps going up despite the massive failure on the field is that it's in a great market. There is a massive long-standing tradition

and story, you know, nature to the brand that probably somebody would look at and say, with a good owner, we could turn this thing around in a hurry and it would be huge again for that city. And the league. I don't doubt any of that, but you'd know, far better than I because you live there and you're, you know, trafficking in the content and the, you see the kind of interest in the feedback you get from fans. But, I mean, maybe this year's draft was what tells the story. I mean, it didn't need to be, I mean, just the fact that some of it seemed competent outside of the fact that the owner decided I went Haskins, which we'll see if it succeeds

or fails. But outside of that, like, the football people seem to get their way. And a lot of picks were names that you kind of recognize because they were from high-profile programs and spots and you knock your head go that's good and that felt like enough to get people excited but i mean i won't forget the last image of that football team last year which is the philadelphia eagles taking over the stadium uh and demolishing the team and and it being essentially an eagles home game like i just i can't forget that that that happened because that's the last image from me of what where where things are and then you bring back bruce allen i mean it's just it's just

It's just astounding how poorly things seem to be thought out. And yet, you know, you bought it for X and now it's worth X plus any time back. 800 million and it's worth probably close to $4 billion, you know. Imagine that. Well, you've got one of 32 that there are a lot of people that have the means that just want in anywhere and would overpay for it. You know, it's interesting about the Haskins thing. is that in talking yesterday about, you know, the thing that he did, you know, right, which for me was Gibbs. And then somebody tweeted me and said, Kevin, what about the name?

He's kept the name. And I, you know what? That's actually been something that, in my view, has been a good thing as well because there's been a lot of pressure over the years without any real supporting data to change the name. In fact, the data has supported the opposite. But anyway, his greatest accomplishment actually could be picking Dwayne Haskell. We could look back, you know, 10 years from now and say he stepped into that draft room and said, no, we're taking Dwayne Haskins. That's who we're taking. We're not taking one of the five guys you have here on your board.

This is who we're taking. And it could ultimately be his crowning achievement, his owner. It could. It could. But that's like the guy, that's like the guy in Vegas that splits tens and gets two aces. And he goes, see, oh, that was awesome what he did there. Because it worked didn't mean it was smart. And in other words, you know what I'm trying to say here, right?

Just having your owner hijacked the entire process because he's got a sweet tooth for a quarterback again, the same way he did with Griffin, you know, because it worked. It doesn't mean that's the way people want to do things where it's effective, you know. And listen, I hope it works. Sure, I mean, it'd be great. It'd be great story, hometown guy, you know, Dan saw something in it, it worked. Great. two decades of the other. So, I mean, I don't know, man. It's just you and I know what it was a long

time ago. And it's incredible now. Like, we're old and young people have no concept of them being anything other than what they've been. By the way, 20 is a pretty good hand. You should just keep the 20 and stick on it because there's only one hand that beat you. There you go. By the way, I was at the MGM a couple of weekends. It was last week. I went to the Nats game. and then went over to the MGM afterwards, which actually is a very well-done casino. It's huge. I heard that.

And I was about to leave, but you know what happens. You stop by one more table just on your way to leaving, and that turned into an hour and 45 minutes of a lot of fun. A lot of fun. Oh, a little heat. Caught a heater. Love it. Nothing better than that.

Got on a heater on the way out. All right, let's talk about what happened last night. I mentioned your name already on this podcast because you really did convince me that Milwaukee was going to get to the finals and potentially win a title. And I really liked Toronto before the postseason started, and it wasn't just you, but you're referencing about how they just dominated the regular season and how many of those games they won by double digits or more. I forget what the stat was that you had.

but it was one of the more dominant regular seasons in recent memory, and then watching what they did in the first two series, especially against what turned out to be a lifeless and gutless, I think, Boston team. I then changed my mind, and I picked Milwaukee in five. But I think the big difference, and I wonder if you agree, is that Kauai Leonard truly is right now a top five player, and Janus isn't yet. Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

and last night, Legler did what he always does, which is a great job of illustrating the difference between the two. And Janus is still perhaps fatally flawed for right now in terms of what he needs to have it all work. And Kauai is able to do kind of whatever he wants, however he wants. Handle, jab, step back, pull a three. and Lopez's face, sure, bully you on the block, get to the rim, sure, get to the line, make eight out of nine, yep.

I mean, 35, 9, and 7, and it's a joy to watch. He's a spectacular basketball player, and I would not have, I mean, I don't know, I'm trying to think of how to say this strongly enough. Down to nothing, I was as sure I was as right about Milwaukee as anything I've been sure about in a long time. And now, if you really look at it, no, Toronto held home court. That's what they did. They were supposed to do that. And then last night, it's 93 all. I mean, it was a coin flip game, and they got a couple of offensive rebounds,

and they had a play where it goes off, Brock and his leg out of bounds. Milwaukee doesn't get a foul call. Toronto gets a dunk, and now they win that game, and it felt like the right outcome. But I'm not in a place where I'm convinced Milwaukee's going to go to Toronto and just get the crap kicked out of them. I don't think that. But it feels like everybody's there, and I'm not there. I still think Milwaukee can go win,

but in looking at Yanis, the two stars, one looks real limited and stoppable, and the other looks unstoppable. Yeah, and it's, the defensive job that Toronto's done on Janus, too. It's amazing to watch some of the views you've gotten from sort of behind the office. offensive set where he's essentially looking at five players waiting on him. And he's not as good a facilitator.

I think he'll develop into that. But Leonard has this way, it's a crafty way of, as you said, using jab steps and stepbacks and then using some dribbles to not only create the defense around them, but to create it in a way that leads to the right pass, which leads to the open shot pass. Like, Janus just hasn't figured that out, and maybe that's part of what Budenholzer needs to figure out as well, but I don't know, it's just such a pleasure to watch Leonard, and on both ends, by the way. Completely agree. But ultimately, I mean, it's been said a million times, but it's just, it's true. It's a make-miss league. Toronto loses the first couple of games.

Van Blit was four of 20. And last night he goes seven of nine from three, and Kauai is setting up a lot of those shots. So if the bucks are going to miss all these naked looks from three, which is what they're doing, they're relying, they relied on it all year and it's worked, and they haven't shot as well, and they missed a bunch of shots last night, well,

then they're going to lose. So, I mean, it becomes real easy the night after Fred Van Bleed has his best game ever and to decide that Kauai's good enough is going to be good enough, and it might be. It might be. But again, this Bucks team has played a certain way all year, and it's mostly worked. And they had a game, they had the first game at home that was a total outlier where

first game they've blown up a fourth quarter lead. It's the first time all year they've lost three in a row. And now they're, here they sit on the brink. So again, they might lose. And if they do, then Toronto will have clearly been something I didn't, I didn't recognize they were. But if Milwaukee goes, if Milwaukee goes and wins one road game, then it's like, okay, we've got a home game who won the series and now everybody feels different again. So I just, I feel like, I feel like this is what happens. We drastically, overreact in the moment to whatever it is we've seen most recently. I think that's 100% true, but I also think one of the mistakes we make, and I've made it

before, too, about the NBA is it's a completely different game in the postseason. And the way players play and the way teams play against each other is just different. You really don't know how great a player is until you see them in games that they have to win. And during an 82 game schedule, they don't. you're right and the coaching really comes into it too because now we're all in the same rest i've seen you every night i know what you're running and what do i do to try to take you out of what you want to do and how do we get into places where we can exploit what the weaknesses we feel like we found i mean that's that's what makes the chess game very interesting and uh you know that's where nurse who by the way

has his own hats which is quite a flex for a head coach he has and and and hats you know where's those the pose he's got i just like that mind fogg to me he's he's got to me he's he's he's he's he's he's like that's mind foggwick to me He's getting a lot of credit, but I actually think if Dwayne Casey were the coach with Kauai Leonard on the floor, the results would be the same. I think he's a good coach. I never thought that he was the reason. I think the bottom line, this is a league where if you don't have a top five player, you can't win a title. You can't even legitimately contend for one. By the way, just on the finals, and I said this earlier, and I'm just curious if you agree with me, I think we talked about the Bucks Warriors and what the number would be a week. ago, and I think we both said it's going to be more, it's going to be much closer than most people anticipate. In fact, it could be close to even money or maybe the Warriors minus 120. I haven't heard some people recently that I respect say it's possible with Durant ruled out

of the series that Milwaukee could be a slight favorite. But I don't think Toronto has a shot at being favored in the finals. In fact, I think Golden State would be a healthy favorite over Toronto. Do you agree. I haven't seen any projections of what the series price would be. They're going to be a huge favorite. Stanford Steve mentioned some number to me last night. What? What did they say? I was just going to say that I can't remember the number because I was writing something. But it was it was more than, it felt like it was more than two to one. Like it was two to three hundred or something like that, which I don't know if that's reasonable. I could see them being minus two 50 against Toronto.

But I would see, especially had Milwaukee finished Toronto off and say five, or six, I could have easily seen Golden State minus 120 or even pick them, or even Milwaukee minus 120. That wouldn't have shocked me. I guess the point is that I think Vegas believes Milwaukee can beat Golden State and Toronto can't. Do we agree with that? Yes. That's what I think the stance is. I know. I just hate to keep limiting or short-changing the Raptors with the best player right now in the postseason, the best two-way player anyway.

Sounds like what you're describing me is an investing opportunity. Yeah, but you know how I'll feel if I see a minus 350. Like if Golden State's a big favorite, I'm not, you know, I'm going to figure that, you know, I'd rather, again, a lot of people don't understand this. I'd rather play Toronto plus 220 than plus 400. Of course, because, you know, they're begging. They're begging. I was going to mention, what's the other thing I was going to mention? I had a couple things.

Number one, I don't know if you saw this, but I just want your immediate reaction if you didn't. Joe Gibbs was inducted into the NASCAR Hall of Fame. I don't know anything about NASCAR, other than if you got the Hall of What does it say about Joe Gibbs? Gibbs. Do you have a thought about Joe Gibbs, though? Well, that he's good at what he does, right? I mean, he's, organizationally, he was great at what he did. And the fact that you're able to go into

another realm and be worthy of that kind of recognition is, is mind-boggling. How many other people are in other, a couple sports hall of fans? Nobody? I mean, I don't know what that list is, but Tommy and I, we talked about this yesterday and he is and I think it's really underrated or under the radar in sports he's one of the greatest winners in the history of sports everything he touches it it turns out well it turns out in championships you know Tommy pointed out the fact that this guy at 35 years old was a national racquetball champion and I didn't know that and he he has so much he's so humble You know, he's the ultimate in everybody else has made this happen.

I don't have anything to do with it. I'm just a dumb PE teacher, as he always likes to say, which is, you know, obviously incredibly self-deprecating. Yeah. Well, I mean, I try not to think about him because it makes me think about the happier times that it walks. It makes me sad. I know you're, you've been watching Jeopardy. Have you been watching the guy that you had Holeshouser on your show?

have you been following it? Because last night he was in deep trouble. Yeah, I heard, well, like that. That's a time frame where we are typically either eating as a show group or a lot of times we're using that space to grab an interview with someone. So we are, yes and no, like we don't turn it on and put the sound on. But we're always kind of keeping tabs on it. I heard he was in trouble last night.

I don't know how he obviously managed to get out of the home. Yeah, he did. The guy, the guy's name was Nate, right, Aaron? His name was Nate, and he was sharp, and he was quick to the buzzer. And he had a first round lead of like three or four thousand over James, and then made a big mistake because he got a double jeopardy opportunity and didn't, you know, go all in. He just sort of, you know, went half in. and Aaron said to me this morning, because we walked in and we talked about it, that was the mistake.

That was the opening because you've got to get every dollar you can against this guy. And then he got on a big role and he ended up winning. But I think it was his closest win to date. And he's now approaching the $2 million mark. I think he won one by like $17. I don't know. Is that right? Maybe you're right.

Something like that. I don't know. I just, is it still like the phenomenon still is big a deal? People still watch. Oh, I would imagine that the ratings. or through the roof. They had a one or two week break for the teachers tournament. So he was off and he was doing the, he was, he was making, I watch the show. He's making the rounds on all the different shows talking about what a, what a lethal,

infeared sports gambler he is, which just makes me laugh. But he's clearly very good at Jeopardy. That's what he's very good at. The other part, I don't know that we know that that's actually documented. last thing because I know you're going to be into this who do you like in the Stanley Cup I think Boston's better but just from a story standpoint the St. Louis thing is astounding

like if they were a basketball team they would attack in January I want to say they had the third fewest points in the NHL in January I had no idea yeah they would have punted on the season They would attack. And they fire their coach, and then they go on this, like, what they've done is astounding.

And it's just, it's yet another example in this sport. And we saw in the first round with all the top seats losing that every spring that tournament produces the most remarkable drama. And, you know, St. Louis hasn't been there damn near, you know, 50 years, 49 years. So I love it I love that it's And I mean Had it been San Jose had been good too I just like the story from the St. Louis

standpoint Because it's so unlikely And I mean Boston and B just seems like The better team I listen to Barry I mean

Every night I get to sit with him And he just he likes the depths of the lines He thinks it's not just the stars They've got like 19 different guys They've scored goals in the Stanley can playoffs which is just a ridiculous number of people to be involved. So I'll be watching.

You know, I still can't believe the Caps lost to the Carolina Hurricanes. But it happened. St. Louis is definitely one of those unique sports towns in the U.S. because football's not number one. I mean, they're very few of them, and they're one of them. They don't have football anymore. But I think even when the Rams were there, the Cardinals are their number one. Yeah.

Right? How about the Nets? What number are they in D.C. right now? Well, I mean, I think a lot of people are expecting the manager to get fired this weekend if they don't play well against the Marlins who happened to have won six in a row coming into this thing. Well, our friend, you actually, I think you dropped off that text chain, which is smart because it's just that stopped. But they were convinced yesterday it was the end for Martinez, but apparently he's still got a gig. Well, let me just tell you, I am on that text chain, and I, every time I try to opt out of that text chain,

I get somebody that puts me right back into it, which I don't really like very much, because it's nonstop during these golf tournaments, nonstop. On average, 150 texts during a golf tournament. People are super bored. A lot going on in a lot of lives right now. I know. He'd be asked me about Kepka.

He was good. He's really good at golf. Kepka's pretty good at golf, isn't he? Well, I mean, there's a list of four people that have done, you know, but win four of eight, and it's Ben Hogan, Jack Nicholas, Tiger Woods, and now Brooks Kepka, and I didn't see that coming.

I didn't know he was going to be the guy that would round out that foursome. But, I mean, there's a lot of good players out there that, like, Justin Rose is really good. Dustin Johnson's really good. They have one, one major. He's got four. It's crazy what he's done.

I had Sands on on Monday, and yes, I forget. got to talk PGA. It just seems like it was a long time ago at this point because it's Friday, not our normal Thursday spot. So my fault, my fault. What did Sam say? Well, I mean, I think one of the, first of all, I am curious because I forget whether or not we've talked about this since then, but did you think there was a chance he was going to choke it away on the back nine? No, absolutely I did. Because it was the, was, having covered that sport as long as I have, The thing that it's always fascinating to me is how few leaders can hold on. And Kepka had such a massive lead that it didn't feel like it was possible he could blow it.

But look at Molinari at the Masters. This is a guy that feels unflappable. I mean, doesn't make mistakes. It wasn't making bogeys. And then what happens? He makes two big numbers on the back nine. He lost the lead. That happens all the time in majors.

and this guy's a killer closer. And so with the lead that he had, I never even anticipated that it would shrink to one. But when it did, I mean, he felt real wobbly, and he admitted to it. He said, I was shocked. So sure, I mean, I thought it could happen. And then DJ, you know, bails him out

with a couple of mistakes of his own. And, you know, I get that it's a hard golf course. But that was, that part was shocking to see him kind of wobbly. And then that was as emotional as you've ever seen him on. golf course was when he got up and in to hang on. Because, you know, the old cliche, you can't win it on Thursday. Well, he did. He wanted it on Thursday and Friday, and then he had to fight his ass off on Sunday to hang

on. And I think that's what the satisfaction was. He managed to dig his heels in. But, yeah, I absolutely thought he could lose it. And, I mean, your bogey four in a row, your leads won. It feels like that's going to happen. So, I don't know. That was a card I didn't think he had to play.

But he had it in the deck. So that's good to know that you can, you know, that you can do that if you have to. Yes, Sands, I agree with you. And the number one reason I agree with you is actually I thought the weather was so impacting. And I thought he was really shaken by the winds and clearly the difficult stretch of just getting off the T and into the fairway when he made those four straight bogeys. But Sands felt like it wasn't going to happen. I think part of it was he didn't think Dustin would par in or would get another birdie.

But I do think that the Kepka thing is interesting right now because, you know, it's sort of come out of nowhere, you know, four majors in less than two years. He's had this very unemotional, stoic sort of personality that some people have described as boring. I don't think it is at all. I think he's got a, for the lack of a better description, he's got a swagger to him that I love. His game is what's charismatic. and I love watching him play, but, you know, he has become here one of the best clutch performers in sports over the last two years out of nowhere. That's, I mean, he does this in the biggest moments.

I mean, it's not a Robert Orie situation. He's not a bit player, but it's just, I love guys that rise to the occasion like that. And nothing seems to me, nothing was. would change my mind that he's not going to continue to do this and have a chance to win majors for a long time now. Do you agree? Injury, I mean, that's the only thing. Minus injury. Sure, I mean, just as far as like his makeup, no.

And the funny thing with him is, and I joked about this on the air, that, you know, I kid Dabo all the time. Like he, I told Dabo the same thing, too. I said, you know, this little old Clemson bit you try to play. Like, you can't do that anymore. You're not allowed to act like you're at some, you know, tech college. You guys have the biggest facilities, the best facilities, an incredibly passionate fan base, and you've won all these titles.

You don't get to say Little Old Clubs anymore. And Kepka can't do the show up to the press conference to be pissed off that people don't think he's good because everyone knows what he is now. I mean, you went four of eight. The ratio is odd. I mean, he's won six tournaments in his life and four of them are majors. I mean, that ratio everybody in the game would want. Like, with respect, you know, you don't need to win Colonial this week.

You need to win a couple weeks from now in Pebble. You need to win last week. That's when you become legendary. And that's what he is now. Like, that's what you become when you do this. So, no, long answer, I don't think it's going to slow down. I think he's wired for it. He's got a confidence and a swagger.

I totally agree with you. and I love what you said. His game is what's charismatic. It absolutely is. Like, crushes it. He just crushes it. Yeah, there's been a lightning bowl out of nowhere. Nobody, nobody, nobody thought this was coming for him.

Certainly not on this, you know, in this kind of time. Like, think about a guy. Like, Ricky Fowler, he's a star in the game. And he's won a bunch of tournaments. He's still looking for one. I know. And Kepka's won four of eight. It's crazy.

I can't wait for Peeble. in three weeks to see, you know, I'm glad Tiger's playing at the Memorial. I didn't think he would miss the Memorial, but I do think that, and maybe you think differently, and you've talked to him a bunch, but I do think, in hindsight, he should have played Quail Hollow. I don't think, I think he would have if he felt like his body. He's in, listen to my body mode,

more than anything right now. And, you know, like, the thing about the Masters was, it was so much fun to see is that it kind of, blinded people, I think, from the reality that this is a guy with a body that's, that's, you know, probably borrowed time. I mean, you know, you did all the discectomies up to the point the man fused his back. I just, I just don't think he can play as much as his brain he might want to, or as much as he would prep-wise, he would benefit him. I just think he has to miss events just because his body can't take it. All right. Sunday night, two-hour game.

of Thrones documentary. I'm sure you'll be watching. We can talk about it on the under. Brand the broken. If I'm the king, I'm not letting that guy call me that. Like, how about king? Well, he knew he was, the thing about Brand, he knew that's what his name was going to be. He knew it, you know, all along.

He saw the whole thing coming. All right. He saw the whole thing coming. He could have helped him out a little bit more when those hobbies came and just said, how about we get ready for some stuff. I hate talking to you about this show, because it's just... What I just said is right, man. It's just mocking and making...

No, not. It can see the future. Here come the zombies. You should get your house in order. How about that? How about a little heads-up, Rand? Let's talk to you over the weekend. See you.

Bye. All right. Thanks to Scott for jumping on today. Quick word about launch workplaces in Bethesda. If you live in that Bethesda area, Chevy Chase, Upper Northwest D.C. area, and you're familiar with the Massachusetts. Massachusetts Avenue corridor over the DC line and you're looking for new office space or you want to

move out of your home into some office space. Consider launch workplaces in Bethesda. They've got flexible, affordable private office solutions so you can get work done. It's a beautiful new space providing fully furnished offices, conference rooms, co-working desks, high-speed internet, complimentary drinks, cafe, and free parking and plenty of it. You'll get more work done today by moving your office to launch workplaces in Bethesda. Call today for an exclusive free two-day trial. The number is 240, 800, 6714, or go to launchworkplaces.com. Mention my name also just as an FYI.

They've got locations all over the city and surrounding areas, and you can find out where all of those are at launchworkplaces.com. Let's bring in Ben Standing from NBC Sports Washington, or a good friend who is the NFL draft mock draft champion of 2019, and he's working on his NBA mock drafts. But I called you because I thought it would be a perfect day off of your story about the potential options of trading Bradley Beale that now sort of goes into a slightly different discussion

because he did not make the top three NBA team, which means there's no super max extension. I want you to get into all of the possibilities and whether or not you think it makes sense. But answer this question first. Does it make it easier to trade him that he's not eligible for the super max extension? Easier for the wizards, you mean?

Yes. Easier for the wizards to trade him. No, I think that, so on the one hand, him not getting the supermax contract, if the goal is to keep him just flat out, this makes life easier. But whoever the next general manager is, especially if it's not Tommy Shepard, their life just got far more complicated, I think.

Because now, if you come into this situation and think to yourself, John Wall, yada, yada, yada, this is going to take a minute to fix. And maybe we need to trade Bradley Beal while his asset value is as high as it like it will be two years on the current contract, the great season you had, all that. Your life just got more complicated. Why? Because now you're the guy who traded Bradley Beal. If you're trying to appease the fan base,

like, what do you, like, Bradley Beal is everything you would want. A guy you pick third in the draft, you've cultivated for years, this is, he's a leader, this is the guy you want. But if a guy comes in and now you want to trade him,

and if you think of the trade, me now, you traded him. If he'd gotten to all NBA, well, what could I do? I had to trade him. Okay, I get that. I guess my question, I didn't put it in context.

What I meant was, wouldn't it now be easier to get it team to actually trade with the Wizards for Bradley Beal and his current contract. I don't know if it, I mean, my sense was going to be hypothetically. He gets all NBA. The wizard, a new jam says, look, we can't justify this. It's going to be in 2021, 22, two players are going to have 71% of the salary cap. Right.

As much as we'd like to keep Bradley Bill. We can't justify it. And I get that now. The way you explain that, if we've got to deal them because we can't afford this supermass. extension, but now that he's not getting it, now they're on the hook for, how could you trade Bradley Beale? We've cultivated and we drafted him. He's on the verge of becoming whatever people think he's on the verge of becoming. I get it. And so if you don't offer him the extension,

the human element kicks in. He says hypothetically, well, that stinks. Now I'm not really thrilled the bee here, and then they have to move on. So I don't know if it breaks the difference other than that now if you don't have that excuse. So I think teams would covet him. And I think as somebody explained to me out of the NBA Combine, don't view Bradley Beal as, well, if a team doesn't get Anthony Davis, now they'll trade for Bradley Beal. Instead, view it as, hey, if we looking at free agents, Jimmy Butler, Kembo Walker, whatever it is,

and these guys are going to want, based on what they can earn, five years 190 or whatever the crazy numbers are. Bradley Beal for the next two years is two for 56. That is a much better deal than those. So Bradley Beal is effectively the alternative to free agents, So I think from that perspective, again, we'll see how the market plays out with Anthony Davis, Kyrie Irving, all these things. But I think from that perspective, a lot of teams would line up to get Bradley B.L.

If the Wizards make them available. All right. I want to circle back to this in a moment because I have more questions about this and more conversation. By the way, having listened to you and Van Pelt, like I have many thoughts on that. By the way, this is not twice I've come in the studio. One time I came in on mock draft on your mock draft schedule. Now I listen to you in Van Pelt talk live.

This is like, every time I come in here, it's like Christmas. This is like unbelievable. I'm serious. When are the Wizards going to hire a GM and who is it going to be? Well, I heard you're getting an interview at some point here because, I mean, at this point, I don't know. So, look, obviously, so it was obvious they were waiting on Tim Connelly, not just because that's how it played out because of how things were happening. They did have some interviews with, you know, Troy Weaver, Danny Ferry and obviously Tommy Shepard, the in-house candidate. But then they were waiting.

And lo and behold, Denver gets eliminated from the playoffs. And a few days later, they meet with Tim Conley. Okay, fine. You're taking that big swing. It didn't work out. They did offer him a deal, right? I was told that they offered him a deal. I was told he sincerely considered it and ultimately decided.

And it was not a low ball deal from what I've heard. I don't know the exact terms on that, to be honest. Maybe he wanted a fifth year and Ted was only willing to give him four. That may have been an area. But the actual value of the deal was commensurate with. top level GMs. And I guess my only question, look, nobody would fault Tim Conley for staying because obviously the situations in Denver for what he's built there versus what he would inherit here.

Right. It's massive. So my only question would be, did you effectively overpay to get him to ignore the differences between the situations? Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But in any event, he stayed. But once you got past that, that was Monday morning. We're now talking Friday.

And as far as we all know, there has not been any reports of any interview. effectively. So what are they doing? They clearly, you would have to assume at this point that they're not excited about the candidates they've met with, or at least not Troy Weaver and Danny Ferry. Tommy Shepherd, I'm not sure. But if you met with them twice each and you didn't go, that's our plan B, then what is the deal? So clearly, my sense is- We're very patient. We don't rush into anything here at Monumental. I mean, it really, he really is very patient in almost everything he does. Like he is an information gatherer. He is a, you know, let's cross every T dot every I. The problem is they're out of options here except

for the ones you've mentioned. And none of them, by the way, are going to like really excite the fan base other than Ernie's gone. Sure. And I think honestly, like even if you did circle back, I think I've had people tell me they thought Danny Ferry would be the best candidate, even including Tim Connolly. Troy Weaver's a guy who's been mentioned over the years as an up and coming. GM and Tommy Shepherd's highly respected. But now that you've waited this long, it kind of feels like you've sort of damaged all of that because of the fact you're basically kind of saying, yeah, we weren't that excited about it, but you should be. I thought maybe he was waiting and very patient to begin with to hopefully get a really good lottery, you know, pick that may

have been more, made the job more attractive. So, so, okay, so I keep thinking of myself, so what are we waiting on? Why are they waiting? So I started, you know, making calls, and then I started to think about a few things. So what I wrote today on NBC Sports Washington, this is somewhat speculative, but it's also based on some reporting. Two names I wrote about. One is, and again, preface with long shots. One is Portland's Neal O'Shea.

Somebody told me he's the best GM in the league. What he's done to Portland, he came in 2012. They were on a downturn. He immediately drafted Lillard McCollum, hired Terry Stott, and from then they've made the playoffs six years in a row, reached the Western Conference Finals. So why would he leave? Well, ownership, Paul Allen, the owner passed away, and there's some uncertainty about are they going to sell the team. And I talked to multiple people who think he is open to leaving after this time, and that he is receptive on some level to considering options, including the wizards.

Is that posturing to potentially get it out there and get a new deal? Neil O'Shea, Portland's in play. Possibility, you think. That the wizards are, I've been told by multiple people that the wizards have shown interest and that he would be receptive to listening. Who's the other name? Kevin moved off of that one quickly. All right. Well, I, no, I'm anxious to get to the next name. The other name is purely connecting the dots.

So what, like the Wizards are, it seems like you mentioned patience. How can you be this patient? Like, is there somebody else out there that you're waiting on? Now, I wrote a couple weeks ago, reported a couple weeks ago, that Messiah Ujiri had interest. This isn't the name. That Messiah U. Doesn't he live here or doesn't he have a home here? His wife is from here.

Right. So I reported that he had interest. Toronto's GM. Toronto, for those that don't know. But being at the Combine, I'll just say that my reporting is accurate. The compensation aspect, his salary, what they would have to give Toronto, essentially makes it a non-starter. But so what else could they be waiting on? And when you go back to connecting the dots, the Wizards and the New Orleans Pelicans both use the same consultant, Mike 40, in their searches.

Go back and look at the names that the Pelicans were interviewing. They're almost all the same names that the Wizards have interviewed Danny Ferry. It's the way these search firms work. Right. They've got their guys. Danny Ferry, Gerson Rojas, even Tommy Shepard was both jobs. I'm blanking here. But anyway, but one name also on that list is Larry Harris, the assistant GM of the Warriors.

And okay, so wait, if the Wizards are waiting, this would make some sense. Yeah. So I'm connecting dots and think that that is, again, it feels like he took a big swing at Connolly. He's not, he, while they've interviewed the assistant general manager types, it doesn't seem like that's what he wants to do. And I also noted the day that he fired Ernie Grunfeld, Ted Leonez has said, and it's in my story, that he thinks this is the best job in sports and that they are going to get great, great people to be in the mix. So if you're, if you're thinking that, that he's shooting for the moon. So shooting for the moon in this case would mean a Neil O'Shea or the assistant GM on the best team in the league. you know one of the things that I'm sure I'm exaggerating here but it would be great if it was apparent to any

interviewee that the owner was really really interested in the NBA team almost as much as he's interested in creating a sports book and an NBA 2K team other than that you know I'm sure it's a wonderful job sarcasm I want to get back to the trade and the trading of Bradley you veiled but I want to I want to set it up by saying this John wall there's a big question mark next to his name by the way there was a report that I read late last night about and I don't think it it had surfaced until last night you know what I'm about to tell you about the deal with Miami yeah but Brian Scalabryty throughout this in some interview and yeah that that John wall prior to the injury was more likely than not going to get get dealt to Miami what do you know about that I mean I haven't heard anything about that I mean I if you told me a pat right

Riley team would want a play for John Wall. Like I get it on some level, but I don't know. John Wall and Pat Riley team doesn't seem like it's a good mix. And also, like, I'm not convinced no matter what we all think, I'm not convinced that Ted Leone's just going to trade John Wall, understand. Well, you can't trade him now, right? Well, but I'm just saying, I mean, I guess I didn't listen to the interview, so I don't know at what point supposedly this was going to happen. I thought it was pre-injury. You might be right that it was post-injury, but why would anybody trade for John Wall right now?

No, you wouldn't. I mean, the only way would be that you have such a horrific contract situation that you're willing to take the risk on John Wall to get rid of your own problem. Other than that, it doesn't make any sense. I mean, just forget everything else. He's likely to miss a large chunk, if not possibly all of next season. So in and of itself, that's a big risk beyond the fact that you have no idea what he will be physically when he comes back.

His contract is going to keep escalating. So all that. And like I said, before. Scalabrini, by the way, let me just interrupt because I just pull. up the information, said the John Wall thing is a disaster for them. I heard they were a month away from trading him to Miami, but then the Achilles popped. So it was before the injury. Yeah, no one's going to trade for him in this condition, which leads me to this. You know, they're not going to be any good for a while. So why wouldn't you, even though you might take some heat from some of the

fans, because Bradley Beale's a favorite, and you drafted him, and he's developed and he's become a very good NBA score, why wouldn't you think towards three years from now, four years from now, five years from now, and really trade him at right now what appears to be the apex of his, of the desirability for him? I think in a vacuum, everything you just said is totally, is totally right. I mean, look, I personally would love to figure out, if I'm the wizard, how do I keep Bradley Biel? The culture aspect of this team, you and I've talked about this before, off the air, I'm sure, has been an issue for a decade. This isn't a new topic. And a guy like Bradley Beale is exactly what you want to set the proper tone of what is expected if you're

going to be on this team and what you're expected to do. The thing, though, is if next year, as we're saying, even if everything goes right, with John Wall not playing and him eating up so much of the cap, it's hard, at best case, everything goes right through the eighth seed. That's just a pie in the sky almost at this moment, without knowing over the roster. So if that's, the case. Now when John Wall would be back in full hypothetical the next year, Bradley Biel has one year left on his contract. Now you have to hope that he wants to stay. If he doesn't, you could potentially lose him for agency for nothing. So now you would likely have to consider trading him unless you really think you can contend. And if you do that, now you're getting far less than

you would have traded him now. So rather than potentially burn this season, you are better off, in my opinion, trading him now. But that's only if you're willing to accept the downs. turn and we had this owner say last year that we will never tank and I think he well there's going to be a downturn there's the downturn has already started sure it started last year but now we're to the point where it was the number one reason I called you yesterday to ask you to come in and come on the show and that is you came up with multiple trade packages that the wizards could potentially you know packages that they could get back for beale go through the three or four of them that you came up with. So when I was out at the combine, obviously you're there to talk about the draft,

but I was also asking executives, hey, if you're the wizards and you actually are considering this, which of these trades, which of these teams, you know, we always hear about, like in terms of the Anthony Davis, Lakers, Nick, Celtics, which of these pieces do you actually like the best? And I don't necessarily know if I have consensus. A lot of this stuff is I, the beholder, and, you know, you've got to see how a few things check out. But in the case of the Lakers, one executive said that that's where he would go. And I was like, really? Because it feels like they all kind of lost some value.

And his response was essentially, well, that's because you're viewing them in that dysfunction and playing with that guy, meaning LeBron. And for all the people out there who think that everybody gets better with LeBron, I would just for just for these playoffs, forget everything else. Go look at George Hill and go look at Rodney Hood. Two guys who looked like they shouldn't be in the league playing with Cleveland. That was odd because I thought both of them were good fits with LeBron. I really thought Rodney Hood was going to be a good fit for LeBron last year.

I think, I mean, in fairness to LeBron. some of it is there's just so much focus and pressure on LeBron at all times that for some guys, it is an overwhelming situation. And plus, you become the guy that everybody yells at because you're the one letting down LeBron, even though that's not always the case. In any event, so based on that, everybody almost to a person said, if you're going to make a deal with the Lakers, you've got to get Lonzo Ball, that he's the one to get, his talent is way under value even by people who like him,

but that he's caught playing with he's not a good fit with LeBron. I don't know how that would work with John Wall but put that aside, but just from an asset standpoint, him. But beyond that, if Brandon Ingram,

who season ended because of a blood clot issue that we'll have to see what the doctor said, some sort of Brandon Ingram, Kyle Coosma, and the fourth pick for Bradley Beale maybe has some merit the fourth pick. Hold on, Ball Ingram,

Kuzma, or just Kuzma Ingram-Forth pick? Ball would be sort of a separate issue. Because to me, I'm interested in Lonzo Ball. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what the family situation is, and no one wants to deal with the father. But I do, when I watch him, I see a guy that's eventually going to be a very good player. Right.

I mean, he's gifted in a lot of ways. 100%. I like Lonzo Ball. You can just see the natural instincts. And I'm a big believer when you see that. Again, I don't see how he and John Wall function long term. They're the same player effectively. Well, I would tell if the Wizards had gotten a top three pick in John Morant had been on the board, I wouldn't have hesitated.

Sure. I would have taken him and not even worried about Wall because John Morant is going to be, I mean, I would have projected him to be an elite point guard in this league. And you don't know that you're ever going to get the really good point guard that you had in Wall ever again if he's compromised based on these injuries. 100%. At this point, I can't worry about what John Warrant. wall is going to be. Me neither. And that's a take from people around the league as well. You just have to figure out the action. I agree with you. But in any event, so the Lakers are an option or would be according to the people you've talked to. Yeah, I mean, Bradley Beale would play with LeBron would

obviously make a ton of sense. And if they don't get Anthony Davis, they've got to do something. And again, consider Beal an alternative to the free agency. I don't know what free agents, the Lakers are going to get or that they wouldn't have to pay a full boat to. I think in some ways, like if you told me you could get Kuzma, Ingram Healthy, and Josh Heart healthy, that would be something I'd really consider. I think heart has incredible upside too. I mean, you saw it at times last year, but again, it was a dysfunctional environment. But I also have interest in a top four pick. Top two would be the best. So this sort of leads us to the Knicks version of this, because there is a gap, I think,

in my opinion, you're a college basketball guy. Zion, John Morant, I fully, I've put R.J. Barrett third, and then you kind of can sort of choose your own adventure at four. There's a lot of different guys. But the Knicks have the third pick. The Lakers have the fourth pick. If you think R.J. Barrett, who's, it feels like he's gotten overlooked to a degree because he's not Zion Williamson. If he is a guy, you think, is a pretty interesting player. The Knicks also have Mitchell Robinson, who was very interesting. I don't know if the Knicks would trade him after what he showed. I saw that you mentioned him. But that, you know, they have a future first from Dallas.

that, you know, they've got Dennis Smith. They have some stuff you could get interested in. The R.J. Barrett part of it, if you're an executive who values him, now you're getting him on a rookie deal versus Bradley Beal, you know, deepen, that could be something that would make sense. And if you're the Knicks, again, if you're getting Kevin Durant, if we believe this to be true, but Kyrie either doesn't happen or proves too expensive, Kemble Walker, too expensive or Charlotte keeps him.

To win now, Beal might be a better option. I think Beal will be a better option than Kyrie, personally, if I'm the Knicks. And I think Beal for a Knicks team that would be looking with, say, Durant to turn it around quickly, Beal's going to be a better option than R.J. Barrett. Yeah, 100%. It feels like if the Knicks are going to go in on Durant, then there's no point in keeping the third pick. You've got to move that. So that would be that. And then you have the Celtics, three first round picks.

You've got Tatum. You've got Jalen Brown. Those two guys, similar to the Lakers guys, especially Tatum, just looked off last year playing with Kyrie. And that Boston situation was weird all year as well up and down. So you got to make a call. Do you think Tatum is the guy you saw? Do you think Tatum really would be on the block? Do they really look at this year and think less of Jason Tatum?

I would at least some people believe his stock went down. I suspect Danny Aange probably doesn't view it that way. And if you do get rid of Kyrie, I suspect part of the calculus is you think that these guys will be better off not playing with that guy. So to that extent, maybe it's not. maybe they're just going to view, they're not viewing what happened last year as where things are going. And therefore, maybe it wouldn't make any sense. But at the other hand, obviously, if we're talking about Bradley Beale, he's not Anthony Davis, but Bradley Beale's a hell of a player and would be also a guy that would make a lot of sense,

just in a general way for what they do. What about the Hawks for 8 and 10? No. This draft, I'm out. I wouldn't, the only reason I would consider to say 3 or 4 is I'm getting some other stuff, but 8 and 10? It certainly comes down to how you view this draft. I look at Zion Williamson and John Morant as clearly separated from whatever,

including R.J. Barrett that come afterwards. I know D'Andre Hunter is now considered top five. I don't see it with him. I have no idea what Darius Garland is. You know, he was a projected top two or three pick before he got injured at Vanderbilt very early in the season. You know, a lot of people love Culver. I love Kelden Johnson, like in the first. Wizards will have a chance for, you know, a really good chance to get him at nine.

And it might even be based on your mock and other mocks be too early. But to me, he looks like a big-time NBA score. Like just the, he looks the part to me. And there are a couple of other guys, you know, that they're going to have a shot at at nine. I like Brandon Clark a lot. Guys like later, you know, Jimmy Patsos was on the other day with me. And did Rosillo say this to us also, that he likes Ty Jerome. and Ty Jerome's probably a projected late first round guy,

but just sort of the competitiveness and the craftiness. But if you told me that Atlanta would deal 8 and 10, and I had 8, 9, and 10 in this draft, you know, yes, you're right that the perception is, after the top two or three, it's not very good. But the other thing I think we've learned from over the years is we really don't know. We really don't know Janus going in the middle of the first round.

Kauai at 12 overall or whatever it was. You just end up with very often, you know, the best players in a particular draft coming from the middle or towards the end of the first round sometimes. So you got to have a competent guy, though, that really knows how to evaluate. You mentioned this article. This is a second part of effect, effectively of an article about what do you do with Bradley Beale. And in the first part, I lead off with a quote that a GM gave me during the season when there was to talk about what the Wizards are going to trade some of their guys and the comment from the GM was who do you get that's as good as Brad if you trade Brad? And that is something I always think about.

Like the idea of trading for picks is a hypothetical, but at some point you have to get something tangible. Like Mitchell Robbins, we just mentioned, would the Knicks trade him? I don't know, they may not. But a year ago, he was a second round pick. If I told you they were going to trade for a second round pick, he'd be like, well, that's insane. But now that he's proven to be reasonable, the idea is he may not be worth the Knicks pouting on. At some point, I need to get, if I'm trading Beal, but you have to be careful, Ben,

because if you get to within a year of his contract expiring, then you don't have the leverage you have now. You may be able to get something back for him, but I also think if we both sort of agreed that it's a start over situation, that it's not a bad way to think about it, even though Ted claims he doesn't want to start over from scratch or he doesn't want to bottom out. But, you know, to start with three top 10 picks,

you know, with the possibility of wall coming back, you know, I guess part of me is just always influenced by my belief that I think Bradley Beale is a really, really good player, but I don't think he's anywhere near elite. Well, all I'm saying is that 8, 9, and 10 in a draft that's considered pretty average after you get past 2 or 3. It doesn't feel like that's where other years, I might consider something like that because you view the draft as being, you know, extending deep into the water. The only thing is that the Lakers' fourth, I would rather get 8 and 10 than 4.

Well, I mean, that's the thing. If you're getting the Lakers, then you're also getting, again, it depends what you think. I don't necessarily think Kuzma is a future All-Star, but he's a good player. Yeah, if you like Kuzma, if you like Ingram, if you think the medical is cool. Like, those are guys who've actually already shown something. Let me sort of veer off to a slightly different angle with this, just in terms of building a team and things like that. And I don't know if you guys have talked about the Nats today. Yes.

Okay. Well, let me make a connection here between the Nats bullpen and the NBA. Ready? Here. Here you go. Hold on. Every night we watch the Nats bullpen implode, right? But if you think of it from like an NBA roster perspective, the guy, the middle reliever who comes in and gives up the home run is effectively the 22nd guy on the team. Because in baseball, all 25 guys are important. Right. And you have to have a roster deep. The top, the number one guy, it may.

matters, but it doesn't move the needle the way it does in the NBA. And this is why NBA teams tank. Because one guy in the NBA can make the difference. You can keep LeBron or Durant on the court for all nine innings, as it were, if you choose to. And they can dominate both ends. In baseball, again, you have to use all 25. Yeah. And so because one guy makes such a difference, you are going to do whatever you can to get that guy.

So all I'm saying from like the, so that's just a general point, like why the, the When people complain the team shouldn't tank, watch the Nats bullpen, and now you see why teams tank because it is a different dynamic in that sport. You need a lot in this sport. One, two guys make the difference. And so from the wizard's perspective, you don't have to win the world in one trade, but you better be sure you're putting yourself in a real position to get that guy. And getting eight and ten combined with the ninth pick, look, anything's possible. We get that, but the Janus example and all that. but I need something more tangible.

And I'm not saying Brandon Ingram or Kuzma or what R.J. Barrett is that guy. But that is my mentality. How do I maximize the situation rather than just let me get your assets and move forward? Last year I said that I would trade the entire team for Kauai Leonard, even for the one year. I would do it and then I would take a chance that I could resign him, et cetera. But I'd want that one year with Kauai Leonard. If you told me that Memphis was going to take Barrett at two, and you could make a deal with the Knicks to get John Morant.

Like, you know, so you're not getting something known back, but you're getting John Morant. I would absolutely make that trade in a heartbeat, and I would take John Morant and say buy to Bradley Beal as quickly as I could. Because, again, nothing's going to happen. They're not winning anything here with Bradley Beal in the next couple of years. John Morant could be the, you know, the foundation of something much, because I think, think there's a chance on him becoming an elite player down the road. So I think Memphis is going to take John Morant. I think he is. And by the way, if they didn't, then the Knicks probably wouldn't want to trade number three to the Wizards for Beal in that particular case. I mean, putting John Morant

next to potentially Kevin Durant and even Kyrie Irving would be pretty interesting. But I would do that. And I wouldn't even think twice about it. But I wouldn't do it for Barron. But I wouldn't do it for Barron. Well, that's a difference between a guy like that, you know, you think is a perennial all-star perhaps. Yeah. I got into this debate with some silly people at the NBC Sports Washington the other day. If Zion William, if every single player in the NBA was available in a draft at their current age and all that, and you included Zion, where would he go? And some of these people who don't understand what it means to build a basketball team said, I wouldn't pick him until the 20s or, what, 30 or whatever, because they're viewing him as a rookie and how he is now relative to the Kemba Walker's and a Bradley Biels. I'm like, you're insane.

You look at all the guys in the league, you think of the number one guy in the title team, which I would argue includes like a Yokic or an Embed because of what they've shown so far, hypothetically. After that, I'm taking the guy who might be that. I know that as good as Paul George is or Clay Thompson or Bradley Beale, I know that they're not that guy. Zion might be, and that is in the NBA, you have to get that guy. Now, I don't know if John Moran gets there. I think he could be.

But he's got his shot to be a perennial all-star. I get that. and I would take that risk. The 8, 9, 10, those guys may be totally helpful. I like some of the potential options, but big risks, and the upside is not necessarily there, and that's why I would say, like, I get it, but, like, I, you know. But anyway, I'm with you, I'm with you on that.

All right, keep up the good work. I mean, Ben's doing mock drafts and follow them on Twitter at Ben Standig. Rights for NBC Sports Washington a lot. you're always putting out content, covering the wizards, covering everything else. But as we get closer to the NBA draft, which we are what exactly a month away from or somewhere around a month away from? Yeah, so we're less than a month away from it. He will do what he did in football. And that is basically give you a chance to win money with your friends by giving you exactly the way the NBA draft will play out.

I hope you're doing two full rounds. Don't tell this to my bosses. In the NBA draft, you've got to do two rounds. Well, because I, my sense is from what I'm... Where do you have Bruno Fernando right now? Late 20s, mid the late 20s. I've been told that the Wizards, again, we don't even know who's running the show, but that in theory, and also I wrote about this based on who they were meeting with at the combine.

It was guys in the top 10, but also guys like early second that they have intentioned of buying into the second round. Oh, somebody else mentioned that to me yesterday. That may have been Rosillo who said they're going to buy themselves into the second round. He had heard the same things. That's what I think. So based on that, I may have no choice but to at least go to the top 40 or something. Yeah, you got to do that.

Where do you have Kelton Johnson? Do you remember? I don't remember the exact paper. Like the mid-teens. Somebody brought this up to me, I think it was my pal Chris Miles, who does stuff with NBC Sports Washington. The Kentucky guys over the years often outkick their draft value. Yeah, they do.

Yeah. Yeah, like Tyler Harrow is going to do the same thing because he can really shoot it. PJ Washington, I'm not so sure about in terms of the Kentucky guys that are projected first round. The guy that I don't like at all is Nassir Little, and he's going to be close to a top 10 pick. He was an interesting interview out there. We got him in the group scrum, and he was a guy who, you know, normally these guys say how great everything was in college. He basically was saying, yeah, you didn't see what I can do because they didn't know how to use me. Well, Roy Williams clearly did not, he was not fond of Little.

Remember very early in the season when people were questioning how much playing time Little was getting? getting and Roy snapped back and said he's not ready. You know, essentially saying for much of the year, little should come back and play another year in college. But anyway. I've had some people tell me they would take Little over Cam Reddish, but I've had other people say little fantastic one-on-one, but you throw out a team concept and look out. He gets lost.

I don't like Lankford either. I've heard totally negative things on Langford. I mean, I've had people tell me Rory Hachamora should be the pick at night. I've had other people tell me he doesn't have a good feel for the game. Brandon Clark is a culture pick, but the upside is lacking. If I could find one guy in the nine range that I could find multiple people tell me they're all in, I'd be ecstatic. I'm still searching.

I like Grant Williams a lot too, and I know that he's the guy that everybody's going to look at and they'll say, oh, well, he, you know, he's not explosive. He doesn't have the hops. He doesn't have the quicks, but he's a man. And he just looks to me like the highest IQ. big power forward type that'll come into the NBA. Appreciate it, as always. Thanks for having me.

Did you have something else that you wanted to say? Oh, I have like 18 things. We've got to get this podcast out. I'll just say this. Your conversation about is Janus ready yet? Yeah. Don't overthink this. NBA finals, NBA playoffs experience matters a ton.

Game 5 through 7, you really see who is ready. And Janus is obviously great. He hasn't been through it. Kauai. The reason I think Toronto has gives his experience. Yeah, he's experience. And that feeds all the other guys feed off it. It's just that.

I picked Toronto before the postseason started to make it to the finals, and I picked against Milwaukee when the postseason started with this one premise. Kauai's an elite player, and Janus hasn't paid his dues. Yonis and Milwaukee haven't paid their dues, and if you go back over time, and I had Rissilo on the show the other day, and it's like magic is pretty much one of the only examples you can come up with for a guy that, for a guy that didn't have to sort of pay his dues by losing a series or two in his first few years in the postseason before finally getting there. I think Duncan only had to lose one before he got there.

But I think the Mavericks weren't in the playoffs the year before, but Dirk had already been to the finals in 2006. I'm obsessed with this topic and I'm apparently obsessed, according to my friends with my own past tweets. So I went back and looked at like my old tweets, and like somewhere I found one that said that when Golden State in 2015 got in the finals, they had the least amount of finals experience as a team since one of the, since Jordan's first time. But they had lost in the playoffs for two or three years straight.

It was in two years in a row. They had only been one, but, but. Well, they lost to the, but I guess my point would be simply that they hadn't gotten to that level, but this shows how great they are. It didn't matter. They were so good. I mean, go back and watch that series. They had jitters.

Anybody who says otherwise is wrong. They weren't ready for the moment initially, but they were so good. They overcame it because, and then obviously the run is sort of proves the point that they were so good that they could overcome it. But most situations, people are not ready. And it's not on the people. It's another level. Jordan won the first NBA finals that he got to, but he had gone through this process of not being able to beat Detroit. and then finally beating Detroit to get out of the East.

The Warriors lost to the Spurs in the Conference semifinals in 2013 and then lost a seven-game series to the Clippers in 2014 before they, in 2015, went through. So there was some post-season pain. With the Bucks, I know that they lost last year, but it was, I just didn't think that they were ready. And then, of course, I changed my mind before this series started and picked them to win in five. I'm glad. I'm just rude. I don't care about being wrong about Milwaukee in this

series because I'm enjoying watching Toronto and Kauai Leonard play so much. I'll stop. I know Aaron's got 18 jobs to do it. He's got to get this out. He's certainly got two or three of them and he's good at all of them. Thank you, Ben. Appreciate it. Real quickly, if you listen to us on iTunes, rate us and review us that helps. Also, subscribe doesn't cost you anything. Last thing on my list of things that I wanted to mention. Did you see last night, Aaron Rogers and David Bactiari, the left tackle for the Packers, both at the Bucks Raptors game, both featured on the video board after Bactiari slammed back two beers, chugged two beers, and then Rogers tried to do it. Have you seen that video? Well, it's not fair. I mean, Bactiari is just the king of that.

If you're put on the spot like that, you got to chug that beer. And Rogers had half of it left when he put it down. And I think embarrassingly, he put it down. You've got to be able to suck that up at that point and chug it. Did you see what Matthew Stafford Instagrammed or tweeted out? I think it was on Instagram. He was at a bar in Florida, actually the Breakers in Palm Beach.

That's nice. Very nice. He was watching the game on TNT, and then he took video of himself slamming back a huge beer. and he hashtagged it King of the North. Good for Matt Stafford. Who, by the way, has been through a hell of a family situation with his wife and her brain surgery on a brain tumor.

All right. Enjoy the long weekend. And certainly we say we remember fondly and appreciate all of our veterans from every war and think about them and their service to the country on Memorial Day. We are off on Memorial Day. We'll be back on Tuesday. Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to Scott.

Thanks to Ben. Have a great day.