The Kevin Sheehan Show - Myles Garrett Interested In Washington

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Kevin opened by reacting to Myles Garrett saying that he would be interested in Washington as a trade destination. Howard Gutman jumped on with interesting stories from his past along with thoughts on the Washington Commanders' amazing season.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. I thought about the squads that could use a guy like me. I think the commanders is definitely amongst one of them. They need a pass rusher. I think that's something that they dearly miss.

They're in the playoffs and some of the big games. And I feel like I can feel that role. You're damn right you could fill that role, Miles Garrett. Yeah, that was Miles Gareth. Garrett earlier today in New Orleans answering a question about his interest in a potential trade to Washington. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, wind donation. If you need new windows, all I ask is give him a shot to give you an estimate. It's free, no risk, 86690 Nation or win donation.com. I've got a guest on the show today, and he's one of my favorites.

Howard Gutman is back on the show. We'll talk football, but we will talk other things with Howard. We always do. He's going to tell you guys and me about the time that he saved the Dubai tennis tournament from an American player revolt. He's always got a great story. This one he has not told us before Howard Gutman in the next segment. The Wizards made two trades today, as of now.

I'll address those at the end of this segment. This from Corey, Corey writes, Kevin, Miles Garrett will have better options, as will the Browns. We have the 29th pick in the first round, and we're still not close to the desired location you think we are. The Lions, Eagles, and Chargers are better situations than here. Hey, Corey, you do know that we beat the snot out of Detroit, knocked the number one seed out of the postseason on their home field a few weeks ago.

I think you know that. Look, two things. One, Washington is absolutely a desirable place right now for players and coaches alike. Detroit's fine. Philly's great. L.A. is always great. The Charger situation is a good one. But Washington is now on the list of teams that players,

desire. They think they can come here and be a part of something big. Adam Peters is a part of that. Dan Quinn and his staff are a part of that. They are very highly respected around the league, but it's obviously more than that. They've got the quarterback. That's the draw. Secondly, you are right. Washington may not have the picks that Cleveland desires. 29th is where Washington is selecting in the first round. Who had that before the season started? Philly will pick later than that, just as a reminder, whether they win or lose. But I understand that Washington, because of where their first round pick resides,

draft order-wise, that they'll have to come up with more in terms of compensation for Miles Garrett if they decide to offer. Cleveland something, if, by the way, he's actually available. This is really simple from my standpoint. Washington isn't rebuilding. They're not even recalibrating this season. They are or should be swinging for the Super Bowl fences. They are a couple of key additions and a couple of key returnees away from legitimate

Super Bowl contention. I mentioned the other day. Right now, they're fourth to win the NFC championship odds-wise at my bookie, and they are seventh overall to win the Super Bowl, and that's before they have added or lost anything in this off-season. You know, you could say that if they brought back some of the players from this past season and didn't even add that much, just the growth of the players they have, in the same system in year two would be enough to consider them a contender.

Now, I don't think I would say that because I would hesitate saying that if they just came back with basically the same team, because I would look at the NFC landscape and I would still consider two to three teams minimum as teams with better overall rosters. Washington would have the best quarterback among the group. But I wouldn't consider this team coming back as currently constructed in their final game this year, meaning they'd have to go back and re-sign, and Wagner and Chin and others. I would not count on an NFC championship game appearance next year. First of all, on paper, and I'm not a big schedule guy,

but they'll play more likely than not a tougher schedule. They'll play eight home games, nine road games. Last year they had nine home games, eight road games. But this team right now is in a very unique situation. It is the dream scenario in the NFL, high-level quarterback, an offense, by the way, that's perfect for him. And he's got two years left on his contract, his rookie contract, before you have to pay him. You got the quarterback, there's no gray area. on what he is, you know, after one season, you got it right. He's top five in the league,

top one, top one to two, worst case in the conference, and he's cheap, which means you've got a green light for the next two years to build a badass team around him because you've got total financial flexibility to do so. Now, you know, the players, that you need to build a badass team around him may not be there in free agency, may not be there in the draft. Not every year is the same. And this right now on paper is not the best free agent year ever. But Miles Garrett might be available.

Guys like him usually don't become available unless it's much later in their careers. He's 29. He's in his prime. He's been either the best defensive player in the league or top two, worst case, top three in the league for several years now. And he plays a position where his impact gets felt day one. He would be the best defensive player this franchise has had since Sean Taylor. Period. Would be the best defensive player this franchise has had since Sean Taylor.

at a more important position. And, oh, by the way, the team has a major need for a really good player who plays that position. I know it seems quick. I know it does. One season and it's already, let's swing big. But this was a very unique situation and season. You know, the swing suggestions in the past, for me anyway, have been about just the quarterback position. Like, let's swing big on a quarterback until we land one. The swing big talk now

is about the Super Bowl, winning it all. Miles Garrett is not Marshawn Latimore. Let's make a distinction between the two. Latimore is a really good player, has been a very good player at a very important position in the league. He costs a third, fourth, and fifth. He's a talent, and hopefully we'll start to see lot of that talent starting next year. Garrett is one of those true, and there are only a few of them, game wreckers. He was the 2023 defensive player of the year. He made first team all pro this year for the fourth consecutive year. He was named just a day or two ago, the Sporting News defensive player of the year for this year. He's pro football focus, his P.S.P. Football Focus is PFF's defensive player of the year for the second consecutive year. Here's what PFF wrote about Miles

Garrett and his season this year. For the second consecutive year, Miles Garrett has cemented his status as the league's premier defensive force, earning PFF's defensive player of the year honors again. Garrett's relentless dominance on the edge defined the 2024 season with his 92.7 overall grade leading all qualifying defensive players. The game-breaking defender continues to set the standard for dominance, boasting one of the most prolific pass-rushing profiles in modern NFL history. After shattering records with his 94.8 PFF pass rush grade in 2023, the Brown Star delivered yet another masterful season in 2024, earning a 92.8 grade. Remarkably, this marks his sixth consecutive season with a pass rushing grade above 90. Alongside his league best pass rush grade, Garrett led the NFL in several key metrics, including win rate, pressure rate, and pass rush productivity rating as well. He recorded a league best 83 total pressures from 477 pass rush snaps. The 29-year-old pass rusher also recorded 14 sacks

to become the only player in NFL history with 14 or more sacks in four consecutive seasons. I actually did not know that until I read it. Garrett's dominance extends beyond rushing the passer as he also excels at setting the edge on running downs. His 78.4 run defense grade ranked in the top 10 among all qualifying edge defenders. He totaled nine tackles for loss and a 1.2 yard average depth of tackle. Though his volume stats and run defense may not top the league, Garrett's consistency and discipline are unmatched.

He registered just 10 negatively graded plays on 319 run defense snaps, resulting in a 3.1% negatively graded play rate tied for the second best mark among front seven defenders in 2020. He is one of the all-time great pass rushers, and he is an excellent run-stopper, an excellent edge-setter and run-stopper. God, this team needs that. He won't be cheap, that's for sure. Two first-rounders, a night two pick, minimum.

Two first-rounders in either a second or a third minimum, maybe a player. with Washington's draft order slotting right now, you know, maybe more than that, to be competitive with the number of suitors that will likely be out there for Miles Garrett. But you put them on this roster next year. Wow, you filled the biggest need defensively that you have, in my opinion,

with the best player at that position in the league, a debatable top five player in the league at any position. Now, you will have to extend him, he's got two years left on his deal. You're not making a trade for Miles Garrett and giving up what you'd have to give up with out having him under contract for, you know, four to five years after he joins your team. You'll have to add a bit more to the defensive side of the ball. But, you know, just his presence alone is going to elevate those around him, especially on the D-line. Do it, man. Be aggressive, Adam Peters.

I know it's expensive, and I'm sure there's a breaking point, you know, on what you'd be willing to give up. You know, I looked at the Kaleel Mack trade from 2018. The Bears gave up two firsts, a second, a third, a fifth, and a sixth for a Mac from the Raiders. He was 27, though, at that point. He had only played four years in the league. So there was a little bit less tread on Kalee, max tires at that point. Yeah.

That seems like it would be an awful lot. Seems like it would get a lot of you out there, probably upset and probably saying they gave up too much. But man, you're just in such a unique position. This is the kind of player that you go for when you got the quarterback on a rookie deal and you just played in the NFC championship game. This is the kind of player that puts you over the top, gives you a chance to be over the top. Yeah, if he's truly available, do your best Adam Peters.

It would be one hell of a start to the offseason. Wouldn't it be if they traded for Miles Garrett? And you'd be able to say, going into next year, Washington has the best quarterback and the best defensive player in the conference. All right, real quickly, before we get to Howard, the Wizards were busy today. The trade deadline is tomorrow. The trade they just made moments ago. They got a pair of second round picks from Sacramento for Valenciunis. Valenciunis was supposed to be a guy that they dealt before the deadline, and they got two second rounders back from Sacramento in 2028 and in 2029. By my count now, the Wizards have 18. future second round picks. 18 between the 2025 draft and the 2031 draft. And then earlier today was a bigger deal. They sent Kyle Kuzma to Milwaukee for Chris Middleton and A.J. Johnson. The Bucks took A.J. Johnson late first round. He's not played that much.

There's also a pick swap. The Wizards are going to receive a 2028 first round pick swap from the Bucks, but because Portland has the rights to the Bucks selection in that draft, the Blazers will receive the most favorable pick. The Wizards will get the second most favorable pick, and then the Bucks will receive the third most favorable pick. Actually, you know what? Let me add to the second round pick discussion. The Bucks got a second round back from the Wizards in that earlier trade in the Middleton, Kyle Cohn. Kuzma trade, which means they only have 17 second round picks between now and 2031. This is what they're doing, just collecting draft picks so that they can get into position

to draft high for a few years and hopefully land on one of those, you know, franchise changing players or two. and by the time, you know, 2028, 2029 rolls around, maybe they're a contender. All right, Howard Gutman next after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, a new sponsor for the podcast, and it's a game changer. You can use it before a night out drinking. It's called pre-alcohol. Let's face it, after a night with drinks involved, it's not always easy to bounce back the next day like you used to.

and that creates that moment of having to make a choice. I can either have a great night or a great next day. That is until pre-alcohol. Zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. it's this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day.

Pre-alcohol produces an enzyme to break this by-product down. Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, of course, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. I was a bit on the fence about pre-alcohol initially, but I gave it a shot recently during the holidays. It's the real deal. With pre-alcohol, I can stay on track and not let things like winter travel or celebrations like Valentine's Day or the big game or Marty Grau. Throw me off course. Go to zbiotics.com slash Sheen to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use Sheehan at checkout. Zbiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee.

So if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to Zbiotics.com, that's Z-B-I-O-T-I-C-S dot com slash Sheehan and use the code Sheehan at checkout for 15% off. Hey guys, prize picks is the place to go to for Daily Fantasy Sports. I have the PricePix app. I'm one of the over 10 million members at PrizePix where billions of dollars are awarded in winnings. PrizePix has made Daily Fantasy Sports accessible to everybody. You just pick more or less on at least two players and their projected stats for a shot to win up to a thousand times your cash. Run your game all season long on PrizePix, America's number one daily fantasy sports app.

PrizePix now offers MasterCard for quick and easy deposits into your account this sports season. Download the app and use my code Sheehan to get. $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Again, download the app today and use my code, Shee-E-E-H-A-N, to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, run your game. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation. If you've been thinking about new windows, act now.

Because February, it's a short month. It has just 28 days in it. Most of you know that unless it's a leap year. And right now, Windonation is offering between now and the end of the month, 60% off all Windows styles from Window Nation with 0% interest and no payments required for two full years, but only through the end of this month. That means less than 28 days to save big on some of the best windows you can buy. Less than 28 days to get windows that will protect your home and family

for decades to come. Less than 28 days to get a quote on the windows that are going to stop the drafts and leaks and save you money on utility bills every month. Don't miss out on your chance for this unprecedented annual offer from Window Nation. 60% off all windows and window styles with no payments and no interest for two full years.

Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation dot com. Mention my name. They'll come out and give you a free estimate in an hour or less, and they won't pressure you. They'll leave you with the quote. You can act accordingly after that.

86690 Nation, window nation. All right. All right. Joining me right now is Howard Gutman. We love having Howard on the show. It's been a few months since Howard's been on the show. But then again, there haven't been many lawsuits, investigations, congressional oversight committees, et cetera.

to talk with Howard about, although there was a story last week written by Seth Wickersham and Don Van Nata about our old owner. I might hit you up on that and get your thoughts on that, but Howard does so many things, including Howard hosts a postgame show for the Skins games down in Richmond with his son Colin. Howard also hosts a radio show in Richmond called As I See It. You can listen to it on the Odyssey. app. Howard, of course, who was the ambassador to Belgium during the Obama years. Howard's been one of the more prominent attorneys in town at various stages of his professional life. Howard does a lot, man. He's got a lot of interests, and he's involved in a lot of things. Now, I'm going to call you out before we get

started, because, and this is a compliment, Howard sent me in advance of being on the show today. He sent me a very long, I guess for the lack of a better description, rundown of topics that we could discuss on the show today. There are like eight subjects underneath each subject heading. There are seven to eight subheadings. Howard's organized. He's one of the most organized people I have ever come across. I wrote back to him when he sent me this.

I wrote Studio 54 and Netflix. show treatments. That's what I want to talk about. We will get to some of the things that you want to talk about. But Howard then sent me, after I sent Studio 54 and Netflix show treatments, he sent me a revised rundown, which included some of the other stuff that he is involved in or has been involved in that I think are just as interesting as talking football with Howard. And something you wrote we've never talked about. And I'm interested, and so I want to start with this. You wrote under the subject area politics and government. You wrote, Israel and the UAE hired me, meaning you, Howard, to save the UAE Dubai tennis tournament from the American Revolt. And you wrote Andy Roddock,

Tennis Channel, AJC. They were secret allies involved in kicking out. Shahar, I think her last name was pronounced pair. It was spelled P-E-E-R. She was an Israeli tennis player. I do remember her. They kicked her out of the UAE tournament and somehow you got involved in this thing because the UAE and Israel hired you to save this tennis tournament. please tell me this story. I'm interested all ears. Kevin, you should know that although you think these are values, I left out, for example, special assistant to the director of the FBI for counterintelligence. I left out a ton. I gave you an abbreviation.

Can you talk about that? Can you talk about some of the stuff you left out? All right. Well, let's start with... Of course, anyway, let's start with Shuffield here. So I'm in my desk shortly after Obama gets elected, but before I'm picked as ambassador. and I get called by some ambassadors in Washington, saying they were told I was the man to see, and could they come in to see me, and I was at my desk at Williams and Connolly,

and the incomes in Israeli, and the ambassador from the Emirates, and they tell me the following story, which is they have, which we know now from the Abram Accords, but that was more than 10 years later, that they work together closely, unbeknownst to most of the world, really the only thing that the Saudis, the Qataris, and the Emirates care about is Iran. They don't care about Temple Mount or the West Bank or Gaza. They know if Iran becomes nuclear, that Riyadh and Dubai would get bombed before Tel Aviv.

And similarly, the Israelis care mainly about Iran. And so every day, those ambassadors back in the early 2000s and on, the Israeli ambassador, and the Emirates ambassador talked to each other every day, coordinating. And at this time, the Emirates was trying to become more and more modern and be more accepted in the Western world. And they decided a great way to do it, was not as they did now have the salaries by golf, but rather they would become the next great tennis tournament. There would be Wimbledon and Roland Garris and Australia and Forest Hills.

And there would be... Not for Stills anymore. That was a long time ago. Yeah. There you go. And there would be Dubai. And Dubai. And the Amrich had invested a ton for the Dubai open.

But when they did it, they never focused on how people qualified for the tournament. And it turns out that there is a certain number of the top X, the top 15, of the men and the women who get an automatic. entry into the tournament and the rest have a play in. And one of the top-rated women in the world who would get an automatic entry into the tournament was an Israeli name Shahar Pir. What year is this? And so they, this would be 2010.

2010? 08. 08, okay. Right, because I left in 09 to become the ambassador. Got it. So they then realized, the Emirates realized, they would have an Israeli woman basically wearing a wife-beater t-shirt and a little short skirt running around center court in the middle of Dubai. And this could be a real threat to them, to the ruling family and the government from the right wing, from the religious right. And this could cause real problems.

And it wasn't in their interest to be destabilized. And it certainly wasn't in the Israeli interest for them to be destabilized because they're aligned. the moderate control of the Emirates and the Israeli government were working every day with a concern about the Iranian. Right. So they came to me and said, here's what happened when we realized this. We, the ambassadors from the Emirates, called our friends to Israelis and said, this is a problem. What should we do? And the Israelis said, no problem.

Kick her out. We'll complain. We'll file a protest. We'll tell Shahir will follow a protest. And off you go, all is fine. Winkin and on and all was great. They never took account of the Americans. So when the UAE kicked out Shahar peer,

Andy Roddick withdrew, my friend Solomon, who owned the Tennis Channel, pulled out of the coverage, the AJC, the American Jewish Committee, which is the largest anti-Semitism fighting organization, and APEC and like that. went nuts and a massive protest breaks out about the tournament and it all comes, the gun begins to come undone. And they ask me jointly, can you do something to fix this? You can

spend what you need, do what you want. It just can happen within the Emirates. It happens outside the Emirates. There, you know, it'll all be okay. And I, first had a really naive suggestion, I said, hey, guys, why don't you try this? Why don't you let the people of the world know that the 5,000-year conflict is over? And that you guys are friends, and that you work together. And they were like, no, we couldn't do that. And in fact, their government wasn't, the people weren't ready for it. The Israelis weren't, people weren't ready for it. Now, of course, when the Abram Accords occurred 10 years later, they're ready for it. As soon as Gaza cleans up the Saudis will join those accords, because in fact, at the time that Israel, it was illegal in the Emirates to trade with Israel.

It was a crime. Israel was still the Emirates' largest trading partner. I mean, nobody paid attention to that stuff among the business. moderate government sector. They're very close allies. They have needs together. So anyway, I did what I could. We had planned, what we planned to do was to host a tennis tournament in D.C. With Shahar, Pierre, and a leading Arab player against Andy Rodick and someone else, all the proceeds going to, you know, Arab, Israeli, peace, whatever, and we're going to

We're going to do this whole accord, but ultimately the B'nai Bres was going so nuts that they had to do something in Dubai to handle this. But your role was dealing with the two ambassadors and the tournament officials? Well, the two ambassadors and then put something together where the Tennis Channel would come back and cover it. So you talked to the guy at the Tennis Channel. Did you talk to Roddick in some of the American players? Yeah, so I had the tennis channel talk to Roddick. So they all agreed to begin to sign up for this thing. And we got three quarters away to where it was all being kissy, kissy, and back.

And then that's when the neighbor had elevated high enough, that it was actually fixed similarly with Dubai. It wasn't an apology, but some kind of diplomatic reparations between Israel and officially that did not so kick off the right wing, but was enough that the tournament went on. Got it. I'm reading something right now that Venus Williams in particular was really upset. She condemned the action. And by the way, ultimately, the tournament was fined U.S. $300,000.

Like, they can afford it. That's pretty wild. By the way, how many times you've been to Dubai a bunch, right? Don't you go there often? Not often, but I've been there a couple of times. How spectacular is it? I've never been, but people who have been that I know say it's incredible. It is incredible.

Well, I mean, it's incredible because it's literally both out of the desert and out of the ocean. Right. I mean, we can't in America solve flooding in Miami Beach. They build entire, you know, land formations out of the ocean. That's the rest of the world's stretching. But it is, it's amazing, but it's kind of easy with oil revenue. But that's not really the story about the Emirates today. So about the Emirates today and political science course.

take to say it. I'm happy to tell commands. But, for example, a year ago, October, Kevin, the Emirates passed the law requiring the teaching of Holocaust education in all their schools. Wow. Wow. So in a world where there used to be no Israel reflected on maps, the Emirates, one of the few countries, you can't get that done in Florida. You can't get done in Miami, and that's all we talk about. The Emirates requires the teaching of Holocaust education. At the last cop, the Charmel Sheik Climate Conference, the only thing to come out of that, that was any substance, was the deal between Jordan and Israel, whereby Jordan built a solar plant, 100% solar to produce electricity, gave the electricity to Israel. Israel built a desalilalization plant run on that solar energy, and 100% of the water went back to Jordan and the Palestinians.

Wow. Both the plants were paid for, and the proposal was done by the Emirates. So they are kind of big leaders in getting there, and this is kind of where the world is. It's just you've got to step back a little bit from the day-to-day noise. to realize how much progress has been made on a 5,000-year conflict. Well, I mean, just, you know, 12, not 12 years ago, 17 years ago now, 2008, the UAE ambassador and the Israeli ambassador, they had a great working relationship, and they basically worked out a deal until Andy Roddock and the Tennis Channel got in the middle of it.

And we just as a population, we weren't ready to understand. Yeah. There were bigger things than 5,000-year-old grudges. Right. Yeah. All right, that's a good story. So there was something else that you wrote in your rundown here. That I want to make sure that I understood what you were saying.

It was the section that you titled More on Quality Ownership. And we'll talk about the season and we'll talk some football here shortly. But you wrote something, and I just want to see if I understood it correctly. You wrote, what Dan Snyder never understood about wealth, power, ownership, and fame. Quote, it is really easy and fun to be a nice guy, close quote. What did you mean by that? So, I give a lot of thought to kind of where things went wrong and the like, but sometimes it's just something someone says.

So if you followed, Nikki Jabala this year had a son, and she had had prior some health challenges. Yes. And that was really exciting and terrific. And the natural inclination just as a person is I had called Mitch's secretary to say, heads up. Mickey had one. It might be nice to send a baby gift. And she said, he had already sent one and said, I should give you a heads up. and then J.P. Finley's dog died,

and J.P. on the air tells a story that Mitch had sent him a personal note, knowing about dogs. And I said, Mitch, it's amazing how much credit, you know, when you're getting on this for acts that, you know, these are, and he said, you know, it's, people don't understand. It's fun to be a good guy.

You don't have to. have to be. And Dan Snyder, what happens is with owners is if they are self-made, they get to a level of wealth where they believe it's about them and that it made them better than anybody else. And from there, they have their downfall because they have to be smarter so they know the sign of Dwayne Haskins. Or they have to impress people with how smart they are or how powerful they are. and they might do calendar pinups or laugh at people or take the visiting owners' box and defile it or all the other nonsense we know went on. And fundamentally, if you're successful, you have the right, therefore, to be able to do what this ownership did. If you see, for example, the rallies.

You know, you get the rallies the day before. Mitch and Marguine often went to the rallies, not because I'm going to sell more season tickets, but to share in the excitement. And it is kind of where this ownership knows. They know that they are blessed. They've achieved a great deal in life. And now part of it's giving back. It's not hard to give back as the owner of the commanders.

It's an exciting thing. but they love sharing it with everyone because it's just as using that power, that fame, that wealth, to allow you to be a nice guy, that's even greater than to use it to convince the world how important you are. And I think there's fewer owners. Now, generally, it's also my view of what kind of owner you want. The worst is the guy who inherited his money and never had to do anything. We know certain clubs like that because they think they're important and they really haven't even achieved. The second worst will be the Danny and Elon Musk. They hit it once.

So just because they hit it whether it was in billboards, selling medical prescriptions, says Danny, or PayPal or whatever it is, it doesn't necessarily mean they could run the government or the commanders. but they never understood that. When you start firing GMs and coaches, because you're not having enough fun, you forgot why it is you were entrusted with the team, which had nothing to do with you, but everything to do with the people who get to share it with you.

Yeah, look, I think I completely understand the first, you know, the Silver Spooner, the person who inherits it. And, you know, not every person who inherits it turns out to be somebody who is, you know, not a more important contributing member of society or as important as they think they are. The entrepreneur often is a very good creator, but not a very good manager. They're a very good starter. They're not a very good finisher. That's, you know, that's a big part of the entrepreneurial kind of profile, personality profile in general. They're fearless. They'll create.

they'll build, but then it gets boring to manage it. And they're ready to move on. And in Dan's case, he never understood that it's not him that should have been managing the business. And he hired managers who essentially were puppets for much of the time. But yeah, no, I get that. I like reading through your notes and there were things in here that were a little bit different that I wanted to ask you about. So let's get to the season. When someone asks Howard Gutman how Washington's football team went from 4 and 13 and a franchise just eight months earlier before the team was sold,

which was a bottom barrel, you know, bottom feeding NFL franchise to within 60 minutes of winning the Super Bowl, getting to the Super Bowl, not winning the Super Bowl, getting to the Super Bowl, and now becoming, more likely than not, a destination where coaches and players alike would love to come. How would you describe it to somebody who didn't witness it? So it turns out, and you hit most of this even way ahead of the curve, it turns out it's great if you could build the strongest roster in the NFL. That would be wonderful. If you could be the Eagles or the Lions, where position by position, if you compare yourself to the commanders, you know, if we could build a roster where a position by position, if we compared ourselves to the Eagles or to the Lions, we'd rather have the people we have on the commanders on paper.

That'd be a great way to win. But you can't go from 4 and 13 and misguided for 30 years and get 53 players. and get 53 players in a year that give you the strongest roster. But if you have the quarterback, and if you have an organization that has certain beliefs that are real, everyone talks about culture. The culture is actually pretty good. You don't talk about culture.

People conclude about your culture from your act. Right. Yes. And if you've got that, you can go a long way, even if you can't stop the run. Even if you have a running attack that seems to be, you know, two yards in the cloud of dust and that shit, you still can go a long way because you're going to convert a fourth down. So let's look at, I think, to me, there were three things if I hadn't known nothing else about the season would have told me all about the season.

Number one is when Tressway gave his jersey number to Jaden Daniels for nothing, other than he thought, this is important for my team. this guy is the future. I've met him enough to know he is a total class act. And I'm the punter. I love this team. I'll contribute any way I can. Do you think about how much we hear when players are like,

I'm going to sell it to him. I've got to get this and that. He just gave it. And that was an act of leadership and culture and setting a tone for this team in a way that what could where that led to, focusing on the punting game, what that led to is if you fast forward the entire season back, you can have a team that's in the NFL championship game that is down, that is deep in its territory,

and that if it tried and missed a fake punt there, if everyone was worried about covering their rears, and everyone was concerned about who, going to blame me for what and where I have to cover. Instead of saying I'm here to win, I believe in my players, my owners believe in me,

my owners believe my general manager, my general manager believe in me. I've got a fan base coming around from the country, and so I've got the guts to call a fake punt that could only, almost always, result in criticism.

That was the outgrowth of what happened to that season, and that could only happen on a team that so overperformed its talent, but didn't overperform its quarterback, nor overperform its culture. Wow. You went back to Tressway giving up number five to a rookie quarterback who had never taken an NFL snap and then tied it all the way into the second quarter of the NFC championship game, went on fourth and six, down 14 to 3, they faked a punt.

And you didn't use a word that I thought you were going to use, but it was a word that was used a lot during the course of the season by people out there when it came to Jaden, and that is trust. They had a lot of trust in him, and they seemed to have a lot of trust in each other. But trustway did a very nice thing. By the way, you could have, in the moment, criticized the young kid for asking for it, for saying it was important to himself, rather than just taking any jersey that was handed out.

But Tressway gave it to him, and we came full circle with the fake punt in the NFC championship game. Those are the significant moments from the season for you. They are the bookends that explain the pride we all felt. The reason your podcast was up, because people want to know. Can you imagine, and this is going to lead right to the branding of the name, but can you imagine that the reading jersey sold in the 2024 NFL football season was at Washington Commander's Jersey? Can you fathom that? You know what that meant? I can't. Well, I couldn't have

before, but once we started to see him play, that's the result of any kind of young rookie superstar player and he was a superstar like we haven't seen in years as a rookie. So it's not surprising once we started to see him play. But of course, if you had asked me that a year ago, I would have laughed at you. But think about the kids who had to explain to their parents December 2nd that what they wanted for Christmas is a Washington commander's jersey. Not an Artmunk jersey, not a Rigo jersey, not a C-4th. whatever in the, they wanted a Washington Commander's jersey because we were the pride of the league,

not the scorn of the league. And that occurred, if you go from Cressway to that punt on that back, that's where we went. And that's why we ended up 14 wins and six losses throughout the season. I don't know if we live right or you call it lucky. But, you know, more happened there than we. when Noah Brown sat there and found a ball was in his hand at a Hail Mary, because we were the team that didn't have one of the players mugging on the sideline. That wasn't going to happen on our team.

That happened on the Bears when the guy is supposed to be covering Noah Brown, forgot you got to go win and go back in the field. That would never have happened on our team. So I'll just make one opinionated distinction here about the Jaden Daniels number five jersey, that on December 2nd, when mom and dad got, you know, the Santa list from the kid,

it was, I want a Jaden Daniels jersey. Not that I want a Washington Commander's jersey. And because you said that this conversation was going to lead into the branding and the name, which I did not have on my agenda,

but I'm fine heading into that part of the conversation. But one of the things I think were learning from some of these sales is this was a national response to the player. You don't end up with the number one sold jersey on fanatics or any of these other places if you aren't selling jerseys nationwide. He was the most popular player, especially for young people, in the NFL this year. Absolutely.

And so we did have a name change. that people wanted. We went from Dan Snyder's commanders and Jason Wright's commanders and that today's show revelation

anders, which could not be more embarrassing to sculptures that were looked like store mannequin. We know the list. We know the list. Right, we went from that commanders

to Jaden Daniel's commanders to the kind of commanders that when Adam Peters came out of the first draft, he said, we were looking for commanders, which meant a certain, which you want to know what a commander is, take a look at Mikey San Francisco, right? I mean, that's what he meant. And it turned out, while those of us who are sitting there focused on the retrospective, Dr. Sabah and me, and what about Rigo and Monk? we're never going to forget them.

We're never going to forget the roots, the Jersey. But we have now become this new iteration, led by Jay and Daniels, led by people who weren't here then, who think Commanders isn't a curse word because it came from Dan Snyder and the legacy of incompetence, but rather it's the name of a team that drafted Jay and Daniels that has a charismatic general manager, a charismatic general manager who knew better than so many knuckleheads like me who thought your choices were Ben Johnson, Mike McDonald or Bobby Sloick. I mean, the panic, right? We've got, but rather he said, you know, I need a leader.

I know this league. I know a leader, and he hired Dan Quinn. And they formed a new team just so happened to have the same name that the team that had a buy was, which is commanders. And that's taken off nationally. it's going to take off internationally as soon as if the stadiums are you located back to D.C.

Because if you're Washington's team, your Americans team, your foreign service team, meanwhile, thank you, Jerry Jones, you keep hiring Brian Schottenheimer's for your coaches, and there goes Dallas's team. And, you know,

and this is something special. Yeah, I mean, it was incredible. It was an unbelievable season. One of the all-time surprise seasons in NFL history and certainly in D.C. sports history. That's not an exaggeration either about the NFL history thing. I mean, you got to go back to the 99 Rams to really find something that was that shocking. Now, it didn't end as shockingly as that one did because they won the Super Bowl. Washington came up 30 minutes, 60 minutes short of the Super Bowl. All right. Well, did you want to say anything else about

the declaration by Josh Harris the other day that their state, well, let me ask you this. Do you agree with me that if they had gone six and 11 during this season, that Josh Harris wouldn't have been up there Monday saying, yeah, we're sticking with commanders? Yes, but it's a little different. Sometimes that statement means winning gave them cover to do so. and I don't think that's how I get it I think what happened is because of who we became

branding ran faster than the decision and the control so first of all you can't touch the name until you get the stadium set no one a lot of people didn't understand that but

you were trying to build a stadium yeah I you know I understood that I talked about that. Yes. Right. And so it's going to be at least two more years until it's safe to risk anything that someone might not love. Why two more years? Why not when you have an actual formal agreement and the city council has passed it?

You're going to have an actual formal agreement. The city council is going to pass it. Then there's going to be various routine or not routine permits over time. Right. Okay. We have seen as Ted, how set you have to be with an agreement with the governor. Right. And back to have it all come unglued, you know, Ted would be in Virginia right now.

So until you get your money appropriated and your deal cut and the government set and the permits and the like, you're not going to start affecting anything. Understood. Yeah, fair point. And so say it was three years. Now, if in those three years, they were in glory years, then you would have a new stadium and a new opportunity to do something about a name. But if you had the most transformative year in the history of the NFL, not only in on the field,

but in the world's regard for you, a brand got built before you started being there, And it just so happens that Adam Peters and Dan Quinn and Jan Daniels and Terry McClaren were on a team that was called commanders and became the new commanders. And so at this point, the question got changed. The question got changed now. Could you wait two more years for the coast to be clear and then do nothing investing in the brand? and then for all those kids who wrote their Christmas list in December, saying they want the Jay and Daniels' commander's jersey, tell them the name wasn't really good, they wasted their money.

We really only care about the Redskins because of a guy named Mark Monk and Rigo and Howard Gutman looking backwards and Dr. Sabah and Neil from Rock. No. Go ride the trend, go take it. And what they did is they hired a terrific new CEO. He comes from Campbell's Soup. He lives for branding. And when do we start branding?

Well, you're not going to invest in commanders if it was the 4 and 13, but you've got the most saleable product in the world who sell to the world, which is a team led by a modest, ice in his veins, quarterback. I go those post-game after the game to see him in the locker room. He just threw the most amazing Hail Mary, and he's like, What's for Dinner? And I almost made the mistake of thinking, I almost made a mistake of thinking he didn't care. And then you finally saw when you lost. Under that, What's for Dinner is a fierce competition.

Yeah, sure. He just knew something that the rest of us can. Kevin, I used to throw up every morning I had a major argument in court. It just got to me. If I had a throw on fourth and eight with the entire world watching, I'd have to go to the sidgline throw up, come back on the game, and make him good enough to do it or not. This guy was as cool as could be,

but never confused that for he didn't care to his core, because he cared to his core. All right, let's talk football, and we will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, new sponsor on the podcast this week, and it's a good one. Have you heard of Goldbelly? Goldbelly is this amazing site that you can order food from, but not just any food, iconic food, famous foods from famous restaurants all across the United States,

and they'll ship it free to your door anywhere in the country. I got a lot of it shipped to me over the last two weeks. How about Pat's cheese steaks from Philadelphia? Unbelievable. How about Lumulnati's Chicago Deep Dish Pizza? They sent me four of them, spinach cheese. sausage and pepperoni. We haven't gotten through all of them yet.

Did get through the pepperoni and the cheese. Everybody in the family loved it. If you're truly gluttonous, they will ship you Guy Fieri's famous trash can nachos, which I kid you not are the ultimate game day centerpiece. So if you're looking to host an epic Super Bowl party, or any party for that matter, go to goldbelly.com and get free shipping

and 20% off your first order. with promo code Sheehan. That's goldbelly.com Code Sheen for free shipping and 20% off your first order. It's a new year. It may be time for new gutters. Whether you're tired of unclogging gutters on your own

or you don't even know what your gutters look like, it's time for a permanent solution that you can depend on, and that permanent solution is leaf filter. Clogged gutters aren't just a nuisance. They can cause extensive water damage. Protect your home from flooding, roof damage, foundation issues, and more. Do-it-yourself in-store-bought solutions. They may be cheaper up front, but they'll cost you more in the long run.

Leaf Filter uses award-winning patented technology to keep out everything but water. No holes, gaps, or large openings for debris to get through. Every installation comes with a lifetime no clogs guarantee. call today to schedule your free gutter inspection and get a no-obligation free estimate. A leaf filter trusted pro will clean out, realign, and seal your gutters before installing leaf filter. Over a million homeowners have trusted leaf filter. Protect your home and never clean out gutters again with leaf filter. America's number one gutter protection system.

Schedule your free inspection and get up to 30% off your entire. purchase. That's 30% off your entire purchase. Just dial pound 250 and say the keyword Kevin show. That's pound 250 keyword Kevin show. See representative for warranty details. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Go to mybooky.orgie. If you want to bet on the Super Bowl, they've got all the promotions, all the prop bets you're looking for. And when you use my promo code, Kevin D.C., they will give you a cash bonus on your initial deposit. Take the free money, even if you've got another place where you're wagering on sports. You'll create a comparison shopping opportunity for point spreads, totals, money lines,

everything. Right now, KC, a minus one point favorite over the Eagles. There are one point favorite the total at 49. And Washington right now, the fourth favorite in the NFC to get to the Super Bowl next year behind Philly, Detroit, and yes, San Francisco, I think we've talked about that before. I think people still believe if the 49ers get healthy, they could still come back to what they were before this year. The MVP odds right now, the favorite and the heavy favorite is Patrick Mahomes, followed by Sequin Barkley. MyBooky.agy promo code, Kevin, D.C. for all of your Super Bowl betting needs. We continue with Howard Gutman. And I should have said when I introduced you, and I've said it before, I just forgot, is that not only is Howard esteemed in so many different

areas of business, politics, entertainment, sports, etc. But Howard is also a close friend, and also an advisor to Mitchell Rails, who is the second largest shareholder of the football team. So how close are we? On paper, we have no business being there. On paper, no one really argued when the Eagles said, as the 22 starters, 19 would come from the Eagles and three, would come from the commanders, and if you played only on paper. But somehow, we've got kind of more than magic. And let me tell you what I think might be going on, which is, I don't think even I gave enough credit to the coaching staff and the player development and the schemes. Because if you

look at it, for example, we have a left tackle. Last year, the big deal was, quarterback, you know, whether about the six first round potential draftees who should go. But then otherwise, the draft was rich in left tackles. And there were eight who went in the first round. And there were 13. We picked Brandon Coleman at 67 as the 13th left tackle drafted. Joe Alt was the first, and then you go on. Well, out of those 13, now PFF grades, I agree, aren't the B-O-N-O, and end-old,

but they're as good as shorthand as anything else. Brandon Coleman was the third ranked left tackle of those out of the 13. Is it that they were so much smarter, or is it that they did a better job, bring them along with Cornelius Rukas alternating first, and then bringing them along and teaching them up and getting them to play? and there's a lot more of that of the second of the developing players than I would have thought about. How do we know that?

Well, we know that it wasn't a secret. We know that they knew they weren't going to get one of the top tackles because we were going to take a quarterback at number two. But they were aiming, I think, pretty much at Blake Fisher from Notre Dame. They had them in twice. There was all the coverage from the Kimes and the standings that they loved Blake Fisher. Well, Blake Fisher got taken at 59 by Houston.

And so he was off the board by the time we got to Brandon Coleman. And he ended up the 114th ranked tackle this year, Brandon Coleman the 59th. Brandon Coleman was 59th out of 141 tackles on PFS. And the third best of the rookie crowd. What was the guy from the Ravens that they took from? Roger Rosengarten. So the Ravens did really well as well.

Rosengarten was 48. He came... 48th, 48th PFF. 48th, PFF, 48th top, PFF, 48th top tackle. Yeah. So he's actually the second best in the quest.

Joe Al did the best. All went number five for the charges. Rosengarten was outstanding. Number 24. Rosengarten was outstanding. Yeah. Yeah, but the next guy picked was number seven to the Titans. It's the difference between the Titans and the Rings.

That was J.C. Watham. He finished 70th. Right. O. O. Foshana, went 11th to the... that's 73rd, and you just go on. Yeah. You get, of course, the Cowboys,

thank you for taking Kylo Gaetit with the 28th pick. He was the 160th-ranked tackle, but they took him with the eighth pick. Five tackles later, we took Brandon Coleman, he was the 59th. Is that we got lucky?

Because we know we would like tackles more, or did we do a good job developing? We know, from again the reporting that came out then, that we were aiming, after we took San Daniels, we needed the cornerback. We knew we needed the cornerback, and we were aiming for Max Melton from Rutgers

because he was an outside corner. We preferred her over a SWAT corner. But we took Johnny Newton at 36, so we had to pray that he would fall to our 50 slot, and he went Max Melton and went 43rd to the Cardinals. And that was disappointing. And so at 50, we took Mike Sanrisville. Mike Santerstill had a 66 PFF grade, Max Melton, a 55. much better year for San Francisco.

He developed not only into a good slide corner, into a really good outside corner. Is that lucky again when it wasn't the guy we were picked? I think it's player development. And so if that's true, then how far could you go with this lineup? But do we have holes? I mean, we would all say, you know, we've got to stop the run. We don't even know what that means.

We've got to fix the running game. Does that mean we need all new backs or is it the line? So we've got serious holes where the only reason you would think we could be back in it next year is because we've got an organization with Jay and Daniels being the next year. But we've got a coaching staff that everybody else is trying to build their coaching staff taking our people. And we talked about the issue of succession planning and how important that was. we've got now Kingsbury, Brian Johnson, to be a preacher, David Blow. And everyone on that list,

someone wanted to hire for something more than they play here and that they're all coming back. They will have two years under the same system and two years under Kingsbury and two years under Quinn. Compare that to what happened this year now with Detroit. They lost Ben Johnson,

but they were supposed to have Hank Frailey, their line coach guy, come up and be the offensive coordinator. They passed over them. They brought a guy John Morton from the outside. So Fraley left, Tanna Engstrom left. Engstrom went to be the offensive coordinator of the Jets. Their entire coaching staff got devastated.

They have more quality, but could we beat Detroit next year? Absolutely. Would you trade for Miles Garrett? Would you give up two firsts and a night two pick? Well, the problem is we don't have a legitimate first, you know, a great first. Understood, which is why you've got to give up two of them and probably a little bit more than that. Right. And my answer is, my answer is no for two.

Look, I have seen Trent Williams, the best left tackle and football, go for nothing. So we have all seen people overpaying. We have all seen people overpaying for picks. and if you're chasing them and overpaying, it never works out. If you can get, who would love to have Miles Garrett, but you can't shift your whole locker room. So I'm not in a position to answer nor as anyone else unless we understand what the effect would be on the locker room,

and that depends on his personality. And it depends how it would affect that overall. We win as a team. We're not going to win as a great end. We're going to win as a team. but if the Bobby Wagner's of the world thought this would be really important and they knew the Miles Garrett, then it would certainly be worth a first and the third to make up for a bad first, but I'm not going to mortgage the future for anyone player.

All right. Last one for Howard. So the story last week that came out before the championship game on Dan Snyder, written by Seth Wicker-Shammannata Jr., I'm just curious as to what you thought, and if you, you know, had any light to shed on what we read, other than you and I both knew that it was a very difficult transaction at the end. I have two thoughts. Yeah. A, everyone knew that closing it was difficult.

Right. But going to dinner with Dan Snyder would be difficult. Right. But, you know, if it's this kind of story that you know is going to get worldwide attention and the like, I always would like it more on people who aren't just kind of friends of a friend who say he hates it. And I never know what they're reporting, you know, how it is. I have a sense of fairness in me. I have no idea if Dan Snyder actually said, you know, I sure wish it were me.

Now, it doesn't strike me as the Dan Snyder. I know I sure wish you were me, but I'm delighted for the people of Washington. I doubt that's what the Dan Snyder is, but I don't know. But look, it's not a secret that it was fighting tooth and nail to the end about getting it closed, about the fine. The NFL didn't do anybody a favor by defying at the end. They were going to force a $60 million fine, and you had to pay that. So getting this done was hard, whether all those details are fair, they might be. I just reading the story, I was looking for more sourcing.

That could be, you know, someone who spoke to him on two. or a frequent house guest. They don't have to name it, but it least more than just the kind of general gossip as he hates it. That's too easy a story to write, but maybe it's all there. I can't comment. Yeah, the he hates it part was the least interesting part about it. But, you know, as you're saying that, and I think Tommy may have mentioned this too, we certainly didn't have a problem when Dan Snyder reporting about him being a terrible human being

and treating people poorly and the allegations of sexual harassment. and fight night this and flights back from Vegas country music awards that we didn't have a problem when it was friends of a friend reporting or getting sourced about that part of the story. You know, I think... In my case, I had first, you know, I knew the people. I haven't been to London. I didn't know. Dan was part of my community.

A lot of people I know. No, look, in terms of how bad of a guy he was and how bad of an owner, but I'm saying, specific to some of the stories that were written, it was, you know, acquaintance, friend-to-friend, cousin of uncle, you know, et cetera, which, by the way, for me, when you see a Pulitzer prize-winning author like Seth Wickersham, I just tend to believe it. I agree, and I tend to believe it. I'm just saying, I'm not saying it's saying they didn't do their job. I'm just saying I don't know how much to take

from that specific story about where Dan is today. I do know everything they said about the hard clothes. I don't know that he refused to say the bank account. That sounds a little bit silly, even for Dan, but that

he was not comfortable selling until the end that Tanya had to cajole him. I can't imagine anything else. It was, he didn't have an awakening where he said, I have no one to blame but myself, that would take a couple years to get done. All right.

One last thing. This is kind of like, you know, the movie Catch Me If You Can with DeCaprio and Christopher Walkin and there's that scene where Walking walks into the restaurant to meet with his son, who's a pilot, and he says, you know, where's my son heading off to now? He's so proud of him. What part of the world is he headed off to now? So I'm going to say in closing or ask you in closing, where's Howard Gutman going next? What's your next big place destination?

And what do you got on the agenda for the next few weeks? Since I just got named one of the top 20 speakers and advisors in the world on Donald Trump, I got booked for two speeches in the UK and a speech in Munich. so I'll be doing a lot of London travel, not talking about our commanders, but talking about our presidents. You know, wouldn't surprise me if somebody just pops up in the crowd and says, I know what you're here for, but I'm just curious, what did you think of Jaden Daniels' rookie season? Wouldn't surprise me if somebody in the crowd comes up and says and recognizes you and says,

how about those commanders? I'd love to hear it. You're the best. Thanks for doing this. I'll talk to. you soon. Thanks so much, Kevin. All the best. Take you care. The Howard Gutman, everybody on X on Twitter. Always fun to catch up with Howard. All right, that is it for the day back tomorrow with Tommy.