The Kevin Sheehan Show - Name Change Time?

Episode Date: July 2, 2020

Thom and Kevin today on the Washington Post/Liz Clark story about the Redskins needing to change the name or DC is out for a new stadium. They also talked about a movie being made about Kurt Warner's HOF career. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. A Sports Fix Thursday, Tommy by phone, I'm here. It was great to have Aaron on the show yesterday, Tommy.

I had Aaron call in, and Aaron and I did, you know, an hour plus together. Aaron misses being on the show and being a part of the conversation. Because he's a big sports fan, and he's got a lot of opinions. that's why he's in the business and it was good to catch up with him. I talk to him every day or we certainly text back and forth every day, but yesterday we had a nice conversation. I hope everybody enjoyed that. Aaron's really, he's a good young man, works hard, gets it,

and one of these days he's going to be back in studio. I have not gotten my COVID-19 results back yet, but two of the people in my home who did get tested, did get the results back, and they were both negative. That's good news. Very good news. Now, not my son who was the one that was exposed that caused all of us to go get tested. I'm a little bit concerned because I was thinking, well, maybe they just send out the negative responses real quickly.

And then the others, they're sort of wondering how to break the news. Now, you understand how positive and negative work. Yes, our president has struggled with that, as I've mentioned to you. God. Yes. That was honestly for about a two week during those task force meetings. I just couldn't believe that he got stumped by, is the positive, the testing. I tested positive.

Well, I tested, ah, which one, I tested negative, the one that means that I don't have it. I mean, good, come on. Well, you know, it doesn't matter anymore because it's going to fade away. Pitch is going to go fade away. I'll tell you what isn't fading away. I'll tell you what isn't fading away. fade away. What isn't fading away is the economy. I mean, that Jobs report today, again, the, uh, it's, it's new industries, you know, I mean, there's so many new industries that have

popped up because of this thing. And then clearly the reopening of, of a big portion of our country has led to people getting back to work as well. I was talking, as long as we know the jobs report is credible. The last one wasn't. Uh, the last one was credible. You're, you, the reason, that you didn't think it was credible. Oh, shit, I forget the specific reason. Did I argue with you on this or somebody else? Somebody else mentioned that it wasn't credible, and I went and looked up what they were talking about,

and it was very misrepresented. Well, yes, it was misrepresented. You're absolutely right. No, the person that said it was not credible, was misrepresenting it. And I forget the reasons why, to be honest. There's so many stories that are all coming together. But yeah, you know what, Tommy?

Maybe this one, a record jobs gain of 4.8 million new jobs in June. Smashes expectations. Unemployment rate now falling to 11.1%. Maybe this isn't credible. I can't comment on this one. I can comment on the fact that CHOP, formerly the country known as Chas did fall pretty quickly as we did predict. We predicted that there would not be a pleasant ending to it, and there wasn't. I hope that that is a lesson for a lot of local mayors and politicians around our country,

that, you know, there's one thing to be completely sympathetic and empathetic and compassionate to a cause that's justified and a cause that's peacefully protested and legally protested. It's quite another. to let a group of people come in and disrupt your city by taking over six square city blocks and running a police precinct and a lot of businesses out of that district. It was very predictable. I think you and I talked about this right at the beginning that it won't end well. And it didn't. And I hope that's the last of that that we see.

I want to see peaceful, lawful protest as much of it as they can provide. But what that was was not peaceful. it wasn't really protest, and it was breaking lots of laws on almost every given day. Well, you know what? I got a lot more sympathetic toward it. The other night, I watched this documentary called The Black Power Mix tape, 1967, I think it was 1975. And it's, I think came out in 2011, and a bunch of sleep. British filmmakers. I interviewed a lot of black power, a lot of black leaders in the

60s, in the late 60s and early 70s. And it just reminded me again what it was like. I mean, back then, college students were taking over administration building and campuses all around the country, basically. So you had a similar thing going on in colleges, and I look on that as nostalgic, actually. Well, there is something nostalgic, regardless of your political bent, about the late 60s. And just the, well, the changes that took place because of people, for the most part for, you know, exercising their First Amendment, right. I mean, the pressure put on this country to get out of a war that it couldn't win was crucial to ending that war.

I recommend to anyone. I think it's on Amazon Prime now. The Black Power mixtape. Is it a documentary? Yes, it is. It's a documentary. A lot of footage of Stokely Carmichael and Bobby Seal. and Dr. King, a lot of good stuff.

Right. Taking over campuses might be a little bit different than taking over a six-block square radius. I get that. I know. I don't know. I mean, look, the bottom line is, like we've said all along, I've certainly said. A lot of good has come out of a lot of the last month, and there's a lot of things that you can question. There are a lot of things that you can say, I have no idea how it's going to turn out. I pretty much had a sense the night that the Minneapolis police got chased out of their precinct and chop and or Chaz took over Seattle that that one wasn't going to end well.

That more likely than not, that wasn't going to end well. And it didn't. It turned violent. And finally, you know, that mayor, I'm sorry, that chief of police in Seattle, who is, to me, a star. I mean, we talk about a phenomenal communicator. She had had enough. I mean, that mayor called it a festival, Summer of Love Festival. The police chief clearly finally got through to somebody to say,

this ain't right, and people are getting hurt here, and we got to stop it. I don't know how we got sidetracked on that. But we do have actually some cause topics today. Well, before we get to the cause topics, I just wanted to touch this on this with you, because I know this is near and dear to your heart. needles and eyes because we can't do that again to people? No, no. Okay.

I know. No, this is good, good warm, hardening news. They're making a movie about one of your favorite football players. Kurt Warner, you sent me the email. I saw it. That's awesome. That's awesome. He is one of my favorites.

American underdog, it's called. Man, I do you remember one of those Super Bowls? I mean, I was excited to talk to him. I am. Yes. Look, I don't know anything about Kurt Warner the person. I mean, I find him to be very pleasant, and I think he's a good analyst and all of that. I know that he's very religious.

None of that matters to me, because as a football fan, his story was phenomenal, and then he, I just always felt like not only was he good, but I felt like people didn't really give him the credit for how good he was. Because remember Tommy, when he retired, there was a big debate, you know, as to whether or not he was a Hall of Fame player. And you and I probably had this debate, and maybe you were on my side. I can't remember. But I'm like, there's no doubt he's a Hall of Famer. If he's not a Hall of Fame, I've watched a lot of quarterbacks during my lifetime. That's a Hall of Fame quarterback.

Oh, I was Luke warm towards me. Yeah, I know you were. You led the parade. I just thought that he had. he had a talent that you see in a lot of the great ones. And that is he had an incredible ability to understand pre-snap and after snap, where all the pieces were. And then he had the quickest release. He had a merino-like release.

And I just, I always felt like this dude was super legit, like way, way, way. up there among the quarterbacks of his time. And certainly he is an NFL Hall of Famer inducted just a couple years ago, right? I mean, he only retired. Probably only retired eight, nine years ago. I forget, was he a first ballot Hall of Famer? I think he may have been. I don't know. He may have been. I mean, his second run with the Cardinals getting to the Super Bowl, that locked it for him. Sure. Yeah, that abys. absolutely cinched it, and they were so damn close, you know, to winning what would have been his second Super Bowl. You know, he went to three and won one and got beat by, you know, a long drive at the end of the game and a touchdown pass in the very late stages of the game to the Steelers and a walk-off field goal by the Patriots.

Those are the two losses. The only year that he had that really you were like, ah, he needed all those weapons like he had in St. Louis was the year that he had in the York playing for the Giants. But, you know, when he when he hooked on with Arizona, there are some exceptional games that he had in Arizona, you know, in postseason games. I mean, Warner had some big time postseason games. I want to pull up as we're sitting here talking about that, that 51 to 45 overtime win over Green Bay, where they actually got a defensive touchdown in overtime to win it. But he had like just here it is. January 10th, 2010, playoffs against Green Bay in Arizona, 5145 Cardinals over the Packers.

This is the year following the year that they lost to the Steelers in the Super Bowl. In this game, he was 29 of 33. He completed 87.88% of his passes. For 3709 yards, five touchdowns. picks and he only got sacked once. I mean, he was great. In the postseason run that he had to the Super Bowl, he threw 11 touchdowns, three picks, averaged about 265 yards a game, about a 73 percent completion percentage. You know, in that Super Bowl against the Steelers, 31 to 43, 377, three touchdowns, one pick. That was the pick that got returned. Remember,

by James Harrison, by James Harrison 100 yards or whatever it was. What a great place at NFL history. Yeah. And he led the drive, you know, multiple drives in the fourth quarter that gave Arizona the lead against the Steelers, including the touchdown pass to Larry Fitzgerald that gave him the lead that, by the way, I bet Arizona in that Super Bowl. And I won that bet because I was getting six in that Super Bowl with the Cardinals against the Steelers.

and they took the lead with, I don't know how much time was left, two minutes, maybe under two minutes. And then Rathlisberger led the drive that ended with the touchdown pass to Santonio Holmes to win that Super Bowl. That was a great Super Bowl that was. Yes. I'm just looking, you know, obviously with the Rams, the Super Bowl winning season. He actually, you know, they crushed him. Minnesota threw five touchdowns in his first ever playoff game. And this was the following week they played Tampa, nearly played the Redskins in the NFC

championship game that particular January of 2000. And they beat Tampa 11 to 6 in the NFC championship game. And then obviously they beat Tennessee to win his one Super Bowl. In that Super Bowl, he threw for 414 yards and two touchdowns and no picks. Yeah, I just always loved Warner. I always thought he was so much better than people gave him credit for. And they're going to make a movie about him. Is this an ESPN or an HBO thing?

What is it? I think it's a regular, a big movie. I don't think it's an HBO movie. I think it's a big theater movie. I don't know. There's some actor in it who's supposedly famous who I've never heard of who's going to play him. Okay. All right.

Let's get to two big stories yesterday. related to the Redskins name. We've talked about the Redskins name issue here in recent weeks as the pressure has increased. I would say, Tommy, the topic is as hot as it's ever been. You could argue it's as hot as it's ever been. And certainly, you know, the hottest it's been pre-2016, the Washington Post poll. And there were two stories yesterday. One written by Liz Clark.

Liz was on my radio show this morning. She was great, talking about how essentially D.C. has now eliminated the Redskins' new stadium as a possibility in D.C. until they changed their name. There were a couple of quotes in here. Now, Muriel Bowser, the mayor, was on with Doc and Al on the radio station a couple of weeks back, and we talked about it then, Tommy, and I said, to me, what I heard is there's no chance without a name change. Well, Liz talked to several people by phone and wrote the story last night, and it's definitive. I mean, the feeling is that, you know, until Dan Snyder changes the name of the team, there's no chance of getting a stadium built on the RFK Stadium site, which is federally owned land, and really there's no chance of getting it built anywhere in D.C. So that was one story yesterday.

And then there was this other story that got a lot of play yesterday. It was reported by Ad Week, and the report was that Nike, FedEx, and PepsiCo each received letters signed by 87 investment firms and shareholders worth a combined $620 billion. These 87 investment firms and shareholders asked these companies, Nike, FedEx and PepsiCo, to sever ties with the Redskins until they changed their name. I talked a lot about this, but earlier this morning, I'm going to let you take a swing at both of the stories, and then I'll respond, and then I've got a couple of big picture questions for you as it relates to the name and the future of it. But first of all, and Liz's story, what did you think?

I've been telling you that the stadium, the stadium was slim chance for a long time. for about the past eight or nine months with the disappearance of Jack Evans from the city council it's been dead

it's been dead for about eight months this is why Bowser who was very cautious about the name for a couple of years when they thought they actually

may have a slim chance to court the Redskins this is why now she's so willing to flex her muscles about the name because they know there's no chance she knows they have zero chance it's a dead issue and it's been dead in D.C. for about eight months now.

Is it all about the name? No, it has nothing to do with the name. It's just been dead. I mean, it doesn't have nothing to do with the name but nobody wants to put a stadium on that RFK site now. Not enough people. Not enough people that count.

So, I mean, you know, you have a faction, a political faction in that neighborhood that's very strong and very adamant about what they want. They want a recreation area. They don't want a stadium in that area. That Capitol Hill, RFK neighborhood has changed drastically since the Redskins left in 1996. And I had somebody who was as plugged in as anybody. to D.C. politics. Tell me about seven, eight months ago, it's dead. And it's just not going to happen.

You know, and people need to understand. Another thing people need to understand, no matter where it's built, nobody. Nobody is talking about building a stadium for Dan Snyder or spending a dime on the stadium itself. All these discussions have taken place where Maryland and Virginia, have talked about building the infrastructure, just like they did in Prince George's County,

building the roads, building the access ramps, things like that. Everything above ground, no matter where the Redskins Stadium built, and I think it's going to wind up right up where it is, the Redskins are going to have to pay for. Everything else, the proposals from government have been about that. Nobody's paying Dan Snyder to build a stadium. I know you've felt this way for a while, and you're right. I just think it's really interesting the way it's portrayed. It's portrayed as a name issue.

Because now it's easy because they know there's no chance. If you want to look good on this issue, you can flex those muscles and say, oh, no. Yeah, but what you're saying is if Dan's... Because it has zero chance. But what you're saying is if Dan Snyder changed the name today, there's still no chance that they get the stadium built on the RFK site. I don't think so. So it would be interesting if they made that part of the story. Dan Snyder, we're, they don't, our constituents, our residents don't want a stadium built on that site.

And even if they did, we wouldn't want the team here unless they change their name. It'd be nice to get the real reason coupled with. with the flex muscle reason. Yeah, it would because they don't, I mean, look, Jack Evans drove the train on this thing, and he worked hard. No matter what you think of Jack, he worked hard for years behind the scenes to build this. And I was told that even when Jack thought that he had counsel support, it was a seven to six support, like the baseball stadium was, seven to six.

seven to six. So it was a minuscule one vote support under the best of circumstances. With Jack gone, there's just no sentiment for, and part of it, part of it is Snyder. I mean, he's such a turnoff. Yeah. And Bruce was too. Bruce was so smug and arrogant. No one wanted to deal with him either. This is part of the problem they've had forever. Like you and I know that I'll never forget, Scott telling us, you know, he's at a Super Bowl and he's like, who are these people that work for the Redskins? They're so arrogant.

And they have been. It's been a real flaw for the organization for years. And that arrogance and that smugness doesn't help you get deals done when it's, you know, when it's a tight situation in terms of having the support. No. Look, and again, if you don't know anything else, know your history, Jack Kent Cook had three Super Bowl championships in his pocket. He couldn't get the stadium built in the district, and he started with Marion Barry.

I mean, everyone talked about Sharon Pratt Kelly. His talk started with Marion Barry. And he wanted the stadium there. Yes. He couldn't get the stadium built. in the district. He couldn't get it built in north of Virginia with the governor standing right beside him at a press conference. And there's a reason he wound up in RALJohn. And Cook had three Super Bowl.

And by the way, Tommy, none of why he couldn't get the stadium built with Sharon Pratt Kelly or Barry had anything to do with the name. None of it. The name hasn't been an issue until recent years. When I say recent, really the last 10 to 15 years. You know, was it mentioned before? Of course. But it never became a cause celebrity until like 10, 12 years ago. It's becoming, it's always been around. I mean, I remember the Redskins being ticketed at Super Bowl over the name. But it hasn't been the impactful

issue it's become over the last 10 years. Yeah. So I still think, I'm still banking on, and I could be wrong. I'm not telling you this is an absolute. It's my best information based on what I know. I think Snyder's going to wind up right where he is. He's either, you know, building a brand new stadium right next to it or staying where he's built, where it is.

I just want to emphasize what you've said, because people will go around when the stadium, conversation is in play anywhere, and they will say, well, it'll never get built in D.C. until they change their name. That's not the reason. The reason is they don't want to build a stadium for Dan Snyder, one, two, the residents in and around the stadium site don't want it there. And so they already had this challenge of being able to do it anyway. Let me tell you, who lives? Who lives in those neighborhoods now? Oh, I know. I've trust of me.

Capital Hill lobbyists, workers in the government, people who know how to fight in the system. Sure. People who are experts at it. That's right. And even though it would be eight Sundays a year that there would be a lot of traffic, they want that they want that land to go to other uses. The, let's stick with the Liz thing before we get to the advertiser thing. And then I've got a couple of big higher level questions for both of us to answer. The issue, and I talk to Liz about it, so if not D.C., and let's count D.C. out now.

She said there are four options. There is refurbish FedEx Field. There is build a new stadium in the parking lot next to FedEx Field and tear the other one down when the other one's done. Virginia or Maryland. And I understand the first two options, and I'm starting to lean in your direction, which is that that's probably going to be the outcome, especially if he chooses not to change the name. I wonder whether or not Ralph Northam or Larry Hogan. Larry Hogan is a Republican, but a very, very moderate Republican. Northam's a Democrat. He's had his own issues clearly over the last couple of years. I'm wondering in this climate, even if they were open to building infrastructure

and lending infrastructure money and support to a stadium site that Snyder, buys and builds on. I'm wondering if they now would push back on the name. Because we've never heard Virginia or Maryland push back on a name. I'm wondering now if either one of those two locales would push back and say only if you change your name. That's a very good point. That may happen. Look, Virginia inherently, well, it's one thing, they don't build these things in Virginia. I mean, they don't build sports structures in Virginia. It took the Potomac

Nationals owner Art Silver spent the last 30 years trying to get a new stadium built in Woodbridge and had to leave and get one built in Fredericksburg that he's paying most of. They've been trying to get a minor

league ballpark built in the state capital in Richmond for decades and can't get it. I mean, remember, Remember Civil War Disney World in Manassas? No, I don't. Well, they were going to, Disney was going to put like a Civil War theme park in Manassas until the area rised up and said, not in our backyard.

And they drove Disney away. So these things don't get built in Virginia. Plus, it's hard for a governor to get traction on something like this when they only serve one for your term like they do in that state. Sure, exactly. It's one term. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's, God, that's so true. Like, you think about, Virginia's had so many famous governors, you know, going back to Chuck Rob, a really good friend of mine, one of my best friends was part of the group that raised, you know, raised money and helped get Doug Wilder elected. He became the first black governor of the state of Virginia back in the, in the, and

the early 90s. And then obviously... That's who Cook was with. No, I thought... At the press conference. He was with Wilder or George Allen? Yeah, no. No, he was with Wilder.

Oh. Cook was. Yeah, but they couldn't get the stadium built. George Allen, I'm pretty sure, followed Wilder. And then they've had Mark Warner and Terry McCullough, Bill Clinton, you know, the Clinton's best friend. They've had a lot of big high-profile governors in that state. Because it doesn't cost you a big chunk of your life.

four years and you're done. It's like servering in the army. Good point. Yeah. So anyway, let's, I think at this point I would probably lean towards what you've been leaning to towards for a while now and that is Landover, the site that he currently occupies. And as Liz pointed out, you know, we're getting to the point here where if there's going to be a new stadium built, especially if it's in a different location,

they got to get some deals done because it takes years to build the infrastructure and the roads and be able to provide, you know, water and gas and electric and all of that. All of that stuff takes years to do. And if we don't have that in the next couple, now his, you know, Liz clarified the Landover situation. their agreement, he owns the land, he owns the stadium, he owns everything there.

The commitment is that he has to stay in that location through 2027. It doesn't mean that he has to leave in 2027. He just is committed to staying there through 2027, which basically means he's okay to be there forever. You know, basically, he can build a new stadium next to the one that they have or he can refurbish the one that they have. but I'm leaning in that direction now. I know Hogan remember a year ago or whenever that was when he had had enough of Bruce in some of the conversations and basically said Maryland's out.

A lot of that was to gain leverage, but there are a lot of issues with that piece of land out by the MGM, out by the National Harbor. Yeah, NAR, which I thought a couple years ago, I was saying that that would be probably the preferred site. wasn't aware of the issues, uh, that I wasn't aware that that was federal land as well. Uh, you know, so, uh, again, something could happen where all this could change.

I mean, I'm just, I mean, this is my guess. This is my pretty confident guess based on the information we have today. Oh, I wanted to mention, remember there was the story not that long ago, within the last six months anyway, about the piece of land that Snyder purchased in, Springfield, Virginia. So, you know, off of, you know, basically 495 to 95, you know, just barely off the beltway in Springfield off of 95 that a lot of people believe, you know, he could build on. Now, again, that's where, depending on who the governor is, depending on the climate, there's a chance that the state of Maryland or the state of Virginia could push back on the name too and say, you can do whatever you want. We're not giving you a dime for anything.

And, you know, Liz pointed something out this morning, too, and I think it's really important because a lot of people don't understand this. People think, well, he's got all the money. You know, he's worth billions. No, not really. His team is worth billions. Dan Snyder's not among the wealthiest owners in sports. You know, she referred to Stan Cronky, you know, as a guy that could take, you know, easily afford building that new stadium. in Los Angeles, you know, using every last penny that he has and have plenty of money left over. Snyder's net worth is primarily the value of the team. You know, he's, I'm not saying that he doesn't have any money other than the value of the team,

but he's not wealthy in a liquid sense like a lot of other owners in sports are. He's going to need help from the jurisdiction, from the locale where he builds a new stadium to get it done. not going to be able to fund it soup to nuts. He's not in that position as an owner. The learners are, you know, although the learners would never do it. They're going to figure out a way to get every nickel they can out of any locale they build in. But, you know, they spent a lot of money, and he's not in that position. When somebody says, well, his team's worth $4 billion, yes, but that's not liquid $4 billion.

That's only if he sells the team, which many of you would love to see. you know, him do. But I thought that that was a really good point, Liz made, is that Snyder's not in position to go to this Springfield location and not get help from Virginia to get a stadium built. All right. And again, and this is just my opinion, but I feel pretty good about it. I think a Redskins stadium in Virginia, you just raise the white flag on Redskins fans in Maryland. you've just given them up because since 1937 people have crossed that river from Virginia

to come see the team play whether it's been in D.C. or in Landover. Now you're going to ask now you're basically going to reverse the rotation of the earth where you're going to tell people in the district in Virginia and Maryland that now you're going to have to drive to Virginia

to go see the, this lousy team play. And, you know, I think for a lot of suburban Maryland fans, they'll bow out. They're not going to do that. I mean, that's like the Potomac is like the Great Wall of China. I know. In terms of getting from one place to another. I understand that.

Well, it's more than that. It's a cultural. It's a psychological. There's so much involved. I mean, Maryland versus Virginia, coming over, you're going to live over the bridge? I mean, from Marylanders, you're going to live over the bridge? For Marylanders, you just wouldn't, you don't think about living in Virginia. For people in Northern Virginia, you don't think about living in Maryland.

And the only thing separating, you know, basically where I live, Tommy, super in close. And somebody who lives in McLean or Vienna or, you know, is a river. That's it. It's a river in the American Legion Bridge for the most part. And it's so funny how people view the other side of the bridge. But I hear you on that. Look, bottom line is, if you produce a. a winner, people will come. If they built a stadium on the RFK site, which would excite a lot of

fans, it would be a novelty early on, but if they continued to produce the same DREC that they've been producing for the last two decades, you're going to end up with a stadium taken over by Cowboy Eagle giant fans when they come to town. The most important thing for this franchise is not a stadium. It's developing a new culture and starting to become a competent professional sports franchise. I would agree. Now, this other story that came out yesterday in Ad Week, where Nike, FedEx, and PepsiCo, each received letters signed by 87 investment firms and shareholders worth of combined $620 billion, asking those three companies to sever ties with the Redskins unless they change the name. This got a lot of run yesterday. It was a big story. It was

trending. It was the lead story on ESPN.com and CBS sports, all the sports sites, and a lot of others as well. So this is an area where I have a little bit of expertise. I don't have all of it, but I've got a little bit of it. No, I defer to you on this. Well, so there are a couple of things at work here. First of all, when you see FedEx, you immediately think FedEx Field and FedEx, you know, Fred Smith's involvement as a minority owner in the franchise. You know, he's not just got his company's name on the stadium and is a big corporate sponsor and partner of the Redskins. He's a minority owner in the franchise. So it's one of the things you think about.

Nike, Pepsi, Nike, obviously a huge league partner. They produce and make all of the team's uniforms. Pepsi, a huge partner and corporate sponsor for the league. But, you know, the impact on the name as it relates to sponsors is when customers stop buying the product because Nike is involved in something morally wrong or controversial. 87 investment firms and shareholders, you know, writing a letter. There are plenty of other investment firms and shareholders to take their places if they decide to sell their blocks of stock. It's the customers, the end of the line, the customer that, the customer that

pays for Nike shoes or pays for a FedEx delivery or pays for Pepsi, that's where the impact on these companies will come from. Now, for the football team, for the football team, there are in the league, if Nike and FedEx and Pepsi and a lot of other big corporate sponsors started to say, we're getting too much pressure and our customers aren't buying as much product, if they don't change the name, we're out. Obviously, that would be a major impact. But the only way I see that, them getting to that level, although in this climate, anything's possible, Tommy, I concede that point. The only way they get to the point where they are really moved to push back on the league or the team is if revenues and profitability starts to drop. And that happens when customers stop

buying product. And then the stock price because they're not meeting their quarterly, the number that they projected starts to drop. And then the net worth of all of their biggest owners and employees starts, that's when you have an issue. I read this and I'm like, well, FedEx got my attention because of Fred Smith. And certainly if they stopped spending corporate ad dollars on the league and the team, there would be some impact. But a letter, you know, letters by investment firms and shareholders, it's just not as significant or impactful as I think most people thought it was. I can't tell you how many people read that and said to me, well, it's over. Names done.

Once it started hitting, you know, them economically. I don't know that this is going to hit them economically, is my point. Nike, FedEx, and Pepsi wouldn't even comment on the story. And they probably won't. You know, they'll write a nice letter back to the investment firms and shareholders and they'll say we've got a relationship with the league. and it's really for the league or for Dan Snyder for you to address, not us. Anyway, that leads really, did you have any thoughts on that?

No, no, I mean, I don't know the impact of, you know, what this report was going to be, and I don't know how much of a boycott that this movement could actually get together. if they really wanted to. I'm not discounting anything as a possibility right now. I mean, you'd be crazy to discount anything. We're living in a completely different world than we were living in five months ago, and even a much different world than we were living in a month, a month and a half ago. And a lot of that will be for the good and the better, let's hope.

And a lot of that is very unpredictable, very unpredictable. Here is a two-part question for you. and I'll answer it as well. The first part is, do you think the pressure to change the name this time will work? You know, I mean, like we both said this, I think. You know, if you're worried about damage to your brand by changing the name and turning off your core fan base, both those things have never been lower. in our memory.

That was the point I was making to you the other day about the timing may be the best it'll ever be. Yes. Yes. And do I think Snyder will see that? No, I don't think this is going to change the name. I would lean that this increased pressure, which is now at an all-time high level, I really do think it is. I mean, the post-2016 poll really did.

you know, kill off a lot of the fervor for this issue. You know, the last few years, it's really been a less significant topic. And a lot of that really was because of the paper itself. The fact that the poll came from the Washington Post, the fact that the poll indicated, not that five out of ten or seven out of ten, but that nine out of ten Native Americans polled that the name, they didn't find it offensive and it didn't bother them. And then it went even beyond that. I was looking at this last night. More than seven in ten said they didn't feel the word redskin was disrespectful to Indians. And even a higher number, eight in ten said they would not be offended if a non-native actually called them a redskin. And then you have all of the schools. There are still 49 high schools in America that have the team nickname Redskins.

There are several that are majority Native American high schools that continue to have the name and they're proud of it. You know, the one school out in the state of Washington well-pinned high in the state of Washington, the head of that jurisdiction, basically telling non-Native Americans to stop telling them and preach to them. about what's offensive and what isn't because he said that's offensive. We have our own minds, we have our own opinions. We are very proud of the name. And look, getting into all the polling, we know that if the poll doesn't meet the way you feel,

you've got a problem with the methodology, whatever. We've got two major polls in the last 15 years, Annenberg in 2004 and the post poll in 2016, and a lot of other polls that aren't nearly, is significant in terms of the the the the the the the the poster if you will um that indicates that it's not nearly the issue that many people think it is i am leaning towards dan snider not being moved um but i'm really not sure i'm really not sure this time tommy uh things have happened so fast over the last month um i i just you know i when i when we brought this topic up last week i said to you

I'm wondering if Roger Goodell might say something about the name. He's been talking up a storm, and I'm not even sure he's got owner support. Maybe the next thing that he's going to speak to is the Redskins team name. And I don't know what the league feels, and maybe the league feels, hey, what the hell? Now's the time. And to take that a step further, because we talked about it last week, this franchise is so in the dump right now. It's so rock bottom low of all time that the case I've always made, which is a market case, which a lot of people don't understand, but I can't help you with that. I can only tell you

that anybody that understands branding will tell you that a brand that has a fiercely passionate following and is a longstanding brand. There's much more risk in changing a significant aspect of that brand than reward. Much bigger risk. However, with that said, in this environment right now, combining the climate with how rock bottom that the franchise is, you could probably make the case that if they were going to change it, now is the best time that they've ever had to change it. They'd win the PR battle, and because they don't have many fans left that are super loyal anyway,

they may not be losing as much. But I'm not sure with the answer is I would lean that he keeps the name. I think he's incredibly stubborn, but more than that, I think the organization, more than most people in the media, they've gone out. They've gone to reservations. They understand also how, what a challenge it is. There are over 500 tribes in this country. There are over 400 reservations.

Some of these reservations and tribes are still almost at war with each other. There's so much differing opinion, reservation to reservation. to tribe. You know, even things like, you know, referring to them as Native American, there are a lot of tribes that find that insensitive. They'd rather be referred to as tribals or Indians. And, you know, it's hard to really, here, the bottom line is this has been a debatable, a highly complex issue for a long period of time. And that's why I have always gotten very frustrated by those that think it isn't and just say dictionary defined racist term. It's the N-word. The conversation's over. But it's not. It's so much more complex than that. Because I agree with you. I agree with you. And I've always thought,

again, I've always thought it was comical that, you know, people who could care less about Native Americans, any other moment of their life, have decided the place they're going to take a stand is the name of the football team. I find that comic. I also find it kind of curious that when the Post now writes about the name and opinion columns, they know he mentioned their own poll. Really good point, but you know who did in his column? Barry's Ruluga did. Barry wrote a column a couple of weeks ago, and he acknowledged the complexity.

You know, he believes that the team name should be changed now. He was very adamant about that. But I'm fascinated in these arguments. Like I was reading Bill Roden, who wrote a column about this the other day. Even the comments from the D.C. people about the name change in Liz's story, nobody acknowledges that this is a very debated issue and complex issue within the only community that matters in this conversation. and that is in the Native American Indian tribal community. That's the opinion I care about, the only one. And the data that we've had over the years is, you know,

well, I mean, some would say it's not even a debate. They don't care. This isn't an issue. Those that think it is, you go home. Look at the poll. Dictionary define, let's come up, and you know what I've said for five, six years now. How about a second non-pejorative dictionary definition? You know, Redskins noun, the team that plays pro football in Washington, because that's what the word means.

It hasn't meant anything having to do with an Indian for 50 to 100 years. This is a late 19th century, early 20th century, insensitive term, and even that's debatable as to whether or not it was insensitive. because there's so much written on both sides of that. Yeah. By the way, my column in the Washington Times yesterday, and you can still read it online, Washington Times.com slash sports. You know, I told some stories I told you about before

about George Preston Marshall. Yeah. Do you know the name of the cemetery? Well, George Preston Marshall is buried in Romney, West Virginia. You know the name of the cemetery? I read your column and I'm forgetting it. Go ahead. Indian Mound Cemetery. Really? Yeah.

Indian. How ironic is that? Yeah. That he's buried in a cemetery that's called Indian Mound. I find that really funny. Let me make one other point on this. And it's the same point I've made about the President of the United States during the pandemic. In life, you've got to be able to communicate. And you've got to be able, when you're the head of a big organization or a country,

you've got to be able to communicate to the masses. You know, as a great communicator, there's obviously just being a great orator. But there is a compassion, there's a sense of humor. There's a lot of things that go into being a great communicator. And Dan Snyder is not a great communicator. He's an awful communicator. He's an uncomfortable communicator. Happy Thanksgiving.

We saw that. just a few months ago in the Ron Rivera introductory meeting. I don't know how much it'll help now in this climate, but never, never, never, the quote to USA Today was such a limited comment and so stupid on so many levels and so unnecessary on so many levels. The response to the patent and trademark commission's thing being overturned by the appellate court

or whatever it was on the Redskins name. And they put out a statement that essentially was celebrating. They have just gotten, at every turn, they've gotten all of this wrong. And if you had leadership, if you had a competent owner that understood the complexities of this issue, but had a lot of data supporting a legitimate reason to keep the name, and he could have been communicating this over time. It would have helped because, like you said with the stadium thing, he's so disliked nobody wants to give him a stadium.

He's so disliked and has such an inability, he has such a lack of an ability to communicate to people, to his own fan base, let alone people who are out there asking for something. And in fact, when he does communicate, it comes off so poorly. that's been a big part of this too. If you had a dynamic, compassionate, smart owner that could communicate, they could have been in a better position on this name thing over the years. I really believe that to be true.

If he had gotten smart advice, the minute he took over the team, somebody would have said, look, this is what you're inheriting. You can stay ahead of this by taking me all these steps. right from the start where, you know, where the accusations of racism seem, you know, they lose strength based on the things that you have done proactively. But, you know, he wouldn't have listened. I mean, he didn't listen to anybody. But, in 1999, it wasn't a big enough issue, though.

It was always an issue. If somebody was advising him taking over to team public relation-wise, that would have been number two or three on the list to deal with. Let me ask you this. If the name gets changed, the chances it comes from Snyder or the chances it comes from pressure from Goodell. Oh, oh, I thought you were going to say, going to be the communicator that Rivera or him.

Yeah. Well, the league would be better off, even if it was their pressure that forced the name change, the league would benefit from Snyder appearing to have changed his mind and not appearing to have reluctantly taken this kicking and screaming. That would not be a good look for the league. The league would look better if it appeared that it came from Snyder and the league said, yes, we agree with you.

Don't you think? What if, yes, I do. What if the league privately paid Snyder to change the name? In other words, gave him some stadium money. I don't know. I think... I mean, that has to be private. It has to be a shut.

Yes, the thing is, is that you would have to, you know, you'd have to basically satisfy what he believes is his downside risk to change it, you know. And that's a lot, that could be a billion dollars. By the way, I found the statement, you know, when the Redskins, when that federal judge, came back on the patent and trademark thing. Oh, no, I didn't find that. I found the other one. I want to find, I'm looking for that statement

that the Redskins put out. I just, I eviscerated for them. That scenario I just put out, it's probably more unlikely than ever because as rich as the NFL is right now, they're about to lose some money. Okay. They're about to lose a lot of money over this pandemic. I'm sure they've probably lost some money already, and they're going to lose some more. So I don't know if they'll be in the mode of giving away money to owners. Right. Yeah, right.

Yeah, I don't know how that would go over with the other owners who are already going to take a hit because of the pandemic. Like Jerry Jones, look, you can talk about TV money and how crowds are not that important to the NFL as they are to other sports. But Jerry gets 100,000 people in that stadium. Okay? The crowds are important to Jerry. Yeah. Yeah, they are. They are.

There was one other thing about this, and I did calls on it on the radio show today. And this isn't going to be applicable to you because you're not a fan. But I asked Redskinned fans, if it does change, how will it make you feel? Because I think for a long time, you know, the majority of Redskin fans didn't want it changed. And, you know, this is a different time now. So we'll see. But I'm less passionate about this issue than I used to be. If it changes, it changes.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am still annoyed and off put at the side that tells you it has to change because it's the N-word, or it has to change because the dictionary says it has to change. When, you know, all of the indications are the people that are impacted the most by it, they don't think it should change. I hate that. I think it's arrogance at the highest level. And I think there are a lot of people, as you know, you mentioned, that get offended by things for the purposes of benefiting from that offense. And then they move on to the next one when they fail or they succeed. And to your point, this is like the least of the issues in the Indian community, in the tribal community. They have so many issues in those communities. But I'm just less passionate about the name.

It's just like if tomorrow it came out that Snyder said, you know what, we're going to change the name. We think the time is right and we think it's the right thing to do. I just would be okay, because this team, I mean, I'm excited about. Kevin, what? It's a fatigue level. I think it's. It's a fatigue level, not just for the name, but for everything.

The team's fatigued me. Yeah, yeah. No, seriously? Obviously, that's what it is. The team's performance and shenanigans have fatigued me. Yes. And so it's all together where you've got no fight left. You know, fine.

Call the socks. Call them whatever you want. Just put a team on the field that can win. I don't care about anything else. Yeah. I think that's where fans are. You know? I don't care what you called.

just my God, stop embarrassing. It clearly would be a lot different. My feeling would be a lot different if we had spent the last 20 years or just say the last five years. Winning a lot of games, playing in some playoff games, being smart, being upstanding, you know, behaving in a way that doesn't embarrass you as a fan. Yeah, I'd feel differently. I think the issue itself is a bit fatiguing, but I think the reason I feel the way I do is because of the team's performance and overall disposition for so long. That's fatigued me.

Like, you know, what have we always said, right? Basically, indifference is much worse than anger. Apathy is much worse than anger. And I have definitely fit into that large group of what used to be a lot. very passionate fan base, and I would call myself, at least during the offseason before a game's played, apathetic. I can't be totally apathetic because of my job. And so I invest my time into understanding what's going on with the team and talking about the team. But in terms of my pure passion for the team, yeah, it's just not the same. Could it come back? I think it

could. You know, if Ron Rivera turns out to be a great coach and a great guy and these are, you know, hard, nose, tough, smart football teams and the owner steers clear the whole thing and they've got a good front office and I could be right back on board and maybe if the name had changed, maybe if they're the red hawks at that point, I'll be like, God, I wish they were the Redskins. But right now, there's definitely a fatigue. definitely now do you think anybody in that building is advising Snyder about this so I asked Liz does she have any sense

of what's going on in that building with the increased pressure and she said she does not I don't either I can tell you that you know as recently as in within the last year I've been told that there is absolutely no change and they've been really they've really been almost emboldened in recent years with, you know, the different decisions and the polling, et cetera, on the name, on the name issue. There are definitely people in that organization that probably think to themselves, let's just change the name. And, you know, a lot of people

do it based on, oh, it'll be great for us economically. And we've already gone through all of that as to why more likely than not it wouldn't be. But, yeah, there have to be people, right? And, You know, another is I had a call or say Rivera will be influential in this. No, he won't. I do not think that Ron Rivera is going to be and have a voice in this decision. He just got here. I mean, Dan loves him and it's coach-centric, but that's as it relates to the football team, not the marketing and the branding of the team.

Anyway. That's a discussion for another time, as the coach said. Right. that is exactly what he said the other time. Well, that question's going to be coming soon, I would imagine. I'm looking, I've been sitting here as we've been talking. I can't find the exact press statement that they put out, remember when the Supreme Court reviewed the whole thing with the group called the slants,

I think it was, and upheld their right, you know, First Amendment right, which basically killed any of the hope that the Redskins. would lose their trademark. But I just remember being so angry and off put at the press statement that they put out after that, Tommy. And I remember saying to you, or maybe it was Chris, I'm like, God, can somebody get to this owner? Like, they just keep kicking themselves over and over again. in a public relations sense. I mean, seriously, Tommy, you've dealt with a lot of teams over the years.

Has there been a team that's, you know, made more mistakes from a public relations standpoint over the last just 10 years than this franchise? Oh, no. Absolutely not. Maybe the next, but, you know, that might be it. You know, again, you know, no. there's nothing. This is the bottom of the barrel. I mean, you know, from, you know, these never, never, never on the name to the excitement and the back slapping over the Supreme Court thing, over, you know, the, the, the, the, releasing anonymously the information on Scott McLuhan being a drunk in their building and on sidelines, like how low they've gone over the years.

The, the handling of the Rubin Foster or the lack of a handling of the Rubin. Foster signing. It's just amazing to me that... What does I forget? They hired a whole team of people. Yeah, Mori what's his face from Memphis? Yeah. To change the business.

Oh, yeah, Lafamina. Lafamina. I'm talking about the hiring of Mori, whatever his last name was. I told you, his son was at my house for like a month because he went to TCU with my older son. But I forget what Mori's last name was, but they brought him in, remember to hand you know, all of the big PR-related issues. And it just, nothing's ever been handled very well by the organization.

Because, again, Snyder doesn't want to hear people tell him what he doesn't want to hear. It's also, Tommy, what we've always said. He doesn't think he's ever wrong about anything. You know, if you don't think you've made a mistake. Well, I've got to tell you, I'm familiar with that idea. You are. That's true. Well, occasionally you'll, you'll see. say, okay, that was a good point. Real quickly, I want to tell everybody about what Window Nation

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percent off, you're never going to get a better deal from Window Nation, 50 percent off all windows and no payments for 24 months. The offer ends July 4th, 86690 Nation, or WindowNation.com. All right. The NFL is reducing the preseason from four games to two games. Are we headed in the direction of no NFL in September? I don't think. I mean, we may be, but I don't see this. is an indication of that. You don't. No. I know everybody else, I'm a surprise at the outrage and fear that's being expressed. Well, they make big money on these preseason games typically, and I know that there won't be spectators, but yeah.

But people have been railing to get rid of preseason games for years. Oh, no doubt. So what's the big deal? Well, the big deal is last week it was the Hall of Fame game. This week, it's two preseason games, and what seems to be coming is, we're going. going to start the season in October, not September. Well, that may be. And October's not going to be any better in September.

I don't know what the hell they'd be thinking then. Well, they're hoping to have meds, a therapeutic answer at the very least. Uh-huh. Look, you know my position on this. I think all the sports leagues are doomed to have incomplete at-best seasons. But I don't read too much into the pre-season cancellation. preseason football is the biggest scam in the world. It's the worst product.

I mean, it really is. Professional wrestling has more credibility in preseason football. For those wondering, they're going to cut it down to two weeks, and every team's going to get a home game and a road game. The Redskins actually have two home games, week one and week four, but in those are the weeks that are going to be eliminated, which means they're going to reconfigure the two games they're going to get. I don't know if that means they're going to play the Colts and the Jags.

I'm talking about something that most of you don't care about. But if you're wondering about the logistics of it, they could have new opponents and new dates for the two preseason games that they play. They're going to play one at home, one on the road. And then hopefully on September 10th, the NFL will kick off with the Chiefs and the Falcons at Arrowhead. God, I hope that happens. I really don't want to fall without football.

So do I. I hope it happens too. One other quick thing. I got a couple of things too. Okay, but how about just the NBA? Players backing out reconsidering Bradley Beal now, apparently may not play. He's concerned about injury.

You know, this is ill-conceived. And you had this one right on the concern and anxiety of the players. And look, you had it partially right, because I don't think it's just about COVID-19. I think it's about the inconvenience of the lifestyle they're leading currently and the lifestyle they're going to have to lead in Orlando, which will limit their freedoms, you know, will limit their ability to do what they want to do.

And I think the reality of that, you know, is going to be a problem. They're going to play these games and people are going to get, you know, test positive and hopefully nobody gets sick. But you're going to have some teams without some key pieces. Go ahead. What else do you have? Yeah, well, you know what? 57 years ago today, July 2nd, 1963, this happened. Juan Marischel for the San Francisco Giants

pitched a 16 inning shutout against the Milwaukee Braves. He outduled Warren Spahn, who pitched 15 in one third scoreless inning. How old was Warren Spahn then? before Willie Mays won it with a one-nothing home run. Oh my God.

Yes. Marichel through 227 pitches. Spawn through 201. He was 42 years old. 42 years old.

Holy shit. He allowed one run, nine hits, and 15 in the third innings pitched through 200. and one pitches. Who was Spawn pitching for? Who was Spawn pitching for? The Milwaukee Braves.

Oh, the Milwaukee was, was Hank Aaron on that team? Yeah, yes, he was. And so was Marichelle? Marrishel had 10 strikeouts in 16 innings and 227 pitches. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? And they wouldn't leave Max Scherzer in there for one extra. winning after pitching six. Or in Game 7 this year,

Zeng Granky gets pulled after giving up his first hit, basically. Yeah. The game has changed. That's crazy. One was won 23 games at the age of 42. I mean, he was one of the more

remarkable pitchers and maybe arguably the greatest left-hander of all time. He won, I think, 363 games over his career. That is unbelievable the pitch count. Yeah. You think they... 201 pitches at 42 years old.

You think they would have pulled them if the game had gone to the 17th? I mean, at what point did the arm fall off? Apparently never. No. I would have loved to have been there for that game, though. Oh, my God. That would be nice to go back in time. That is funny.

I mean, obviously everything changed, and there was, you know, science that said it should change, medical that said it should change. But there was a time in baseball where the starting pitcher remained the pitcher throughout the whole game. No matter what was going on unless he really got rocked. Oh, that's hysterical. That's a lot of pitches. Yeah, it is. What else? You said you had a couple of other things. No, I think that's it. I forgot what the other thing was already.

All right. I am off tomorrow, and I am technically off of, oh, I'm off of radio next week. And we will do a podcast if there's a reason to do a podcast, but I am technically on vacation, even though as of now, Tommy, I'm not going anywhere next week. but I have all this vacation time. I haven't used any of it, and so I'm going to use some of it here because it's the summer. And so I don't know when we'll be back with the next podcast, no later than a week from Monday.

Very possibly at least one or two days next week. We'll keep you posted, but enjoy. What are you going to do? Honestly, I'm not planning. I don't have a plan. We're attempting to maybe put together a last second trip, but it's really, it's in flux right now. I just, I almost didn't even take the time off,

but they're like, take the time off. I'll play some golf, definitely play some golf. My back's feeling better. I will get organized around the house. You know what I'm going to do? What did you tell me to watch? Yellowstone? Oh, the wire. The wire, the wires on the top at the top of my list.

The wires at the top of my list. By the way, Aaron yesterday was talking about he's, he watched casino for the first time. Really? The movie. And I told him, I'm like, you know, Tommy's one of Tommy's favorite references is always to Ace Rothstein. in that movie. And I mentioned that I know that the Ace Rothstein Hotel that that movie was based off another hotel that had major problems in the 70s. And I guessed it right.

Aaron said it was, I guess that it was the Stardust. Did you know it was? Yeah, yes, I know. I don't know why I remembered that, but Aaron's reading some book about it. But then, you know, we started talking about mob movies, and to me it's, you know, it's Godfather.

Godfather, two Goodfellas, put them in whatever order you want. Those are the three, and then there's a big drop-off after that. But he was looking for another mob-related movie to watch that he hadn't seen, and I told him, because it's been on a lot recently on television. One of my all-time favorite movies is Donnie Brasco, and he hasn't seen it. Oh, absolutely. I mean, you really want to get an idea of the way the real mob operates, Donnie Brasco. Such a great movie. They're not all living in mansions on a hill. No, they're not. No, they're not.

All right. I'm done. You're done. Enjoy tomorrow and the weekend. When do you get that first shot in your eye? See how I save that for the end? Probably another 10 days or something. Okay.

So we'll be able to talk about that when we next do a podcast together, or should we just avoid it? A lot of people thought that that was the worst thing they've ever heard on a podcast or a radio show. Which means that we have to talk about it. Of course it does. All right, we're done. Again, I'm off next week. If something big happens, we'll get a podcast done. But enjoy the holiday weekend and take care.