The Kevin Sheehan Show - Name Game

Episode Date: July 14, 2020

Kevin back today with Thom. They were all over the place but eventually got to the latest on the name change, Ron Rivera's level of influence, and more. They also weighed in on the Adrian Wojnarowski suspension and the DeSean Jackson situation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right, I'm back. Tommy's with me. We'll get the show started here momentarily. Quick word about Roman. If you were to guess on average how many days people in the U.S. have to wait to see a doctor. What would you say? A week maybe, actually on average, people have to wait nearly a month to see a doctor in major U.S. cities. Basically, you know, 29 days to 30 days, somewhere in that realm. If you're dealing with a condition like erectile dysfunction, you want that one, Tommy, taking care of quickly ASAP. That's why our friends at Roman have spent, years building a digital platform that can connect you with a doctor licensed in your state all from the comfort of your home. Roman makes it convenient to get the treatment you need on your schedule. Grab your phone or computer, complete a free online visit, and you'll hear back from a U.S. licensed physician within 24 hours. If the doctor decides the treatment is right for you, Roman's pharmacy can ship your medication to you with free two-day shipping. That's free two-day shipping, you'll also get free unlimited follow-ups with your doctor anytime you have questions or if you want to adjust your treatment plan. With Roman, there are no commitments. You can't

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Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yes, indeed. It is a Sports Fix Tuesday. Tommy by phone, I'm back in studio after a few days off for vacation, even though we did, we did two podcasts last week, right? Yes, we did. Did we do three or two?

I think we just did, too. I can't even remember. It seems like three. I can't remember. I have so many things that have happened to me between the last time we spoke and yesterday afternoon, which I'll get to in a moment, but I believe that you had one of your eyes done. Did we get the needle into your eye finally, and how did it feel? Well, can I talk about it?

You sure it won't upset too many. podcast listener. You'll be a little squeamish. I think it's risky. I mean, maybe we should give a quick disclaimer here or quick heads up that they can fast forward 15 seconds. I sent you a picture. No, you did. That should have been a disclaimer.

You didn't say it. I texted you a picture. You texted me a picture. Are you being serious? Yes. Take a look right now. I am checking. I am checking your texts.

Oh, yeah, but that's not actually you. I think that kind of illustrates the session, though. Here's what I would suggest in describing your eye surgery. I think the less graphic, the better, and getting to the point of the result as quickly as possible so we can move on to the next story is what I would advise. Okay, first of all, the doctor comes in, And he explains that we've got three levels of anesthesia we can do.

We can use eye drops, which will numb the eye, but they're not as strong. And then the second level, I forget what the second level was. And the third level was they stick a needle in your eye to numb your eye from the other needle they're going to stick in your eye. And he assured me, he says, you know, the drops usually work. And I mean, because I'm ready to say, you know, the biggest dose of anesthesia you've got, you know. And then, you know, the picture I sent you was from Clockwork Orange, where they forced this guy's eyes open for, well, for days weeks. So they have to force your eye open. and they have to put a device in your eyelids.

Oh, this is already, this is already too much for me. But that's not, that, that was no big deal. Which one did you pick? Which one did you pick? That was, so they put the little clip on your eyelid, and that was easy to keep your, from, you know, closing your eyelid. And I, look, I generally have faith in the doctors. I have faith in this guy. He was recommended to me by my normal eye doctor who have tremendous faith in. So I said, okay, Doc, if you say the drops, we'll do the drops.

The least impactful anesthesia, not normally my move. So he puts the drops in, and he says, okay, now we're going to put the medicine in. Okay. Did it work? Did you feel pain or not? And I felt a pinch, and it was done. It was done in less than a second. Really? That was it?

Oh, God, thank God. I said, that's it? I said, that was it? He said, yeah. I got to have five more at he's done. It was a piece of cake. Oh, good. It was easy.

Sort of like my COVID-19 test. Yes, it was fun. It was easy. I mean, the anxiety. was far worse. Well, you could have taken something for the anxiety. Yeah, I mean, my, my, my, uh, my doctor feel goods locked up. How's that?

I, where's I going to get that? I could have helped you out with that. But from you, I could have borrowed some from you. No, no, no, I could have gotten you some, though. Um, you know, you could have also just had a drink before you went in there. Yeah, but I'm not drinking these days. I know you're not. Oh, I'm, I'm really, I'm really pleased.

I thought you were heading down that path with the options where they didn't even get to option three, and you just said that one. Because remember early in the pandemic when, you know, everybody was sending videos that were going viral and memes, and there was this one video that is still by far and away my favorite of the guy being interviewed who's asked about, you know, how he'd like to spend the pandemic. and he's given two options. Option A would be with your wife and your kids, and then before the questioner even gets to option B, he goes, option B. That was my favorite video that went around early in the pandemic. Remember all those years ago early in the pandemic? Oh, yeah, when we thought this was just maybe another fad.

When we thought it would warm up and be gone? Yeah, we thought this was just something. to talk about. Little did we know. Okay, I have... Not something that we would live with. I have two to three stories for you. One of them sort of morphs in

with the other one. So I'll start with that one, the more recent. You're going to like the other one better. But yesterday, I went and played golf at Winged Foot. Wingfoot, Tommy, is the legendary iconic golf venue in Westchester,

Mamarineck, New York. And that's where the U.S. Open is going to be in September. It was scheduled to be there in June, obviously. It's going to be there in September. And Danny Frank, who is a fan of the show, a fan of yours, and listens to the podcast all the time. Danny's become a really good friend. And Danny is, let's just say that Danny is a guy that can get things.

You need a guy that can get things. Danny's always been a guy that can get things. Anyway, J.P. Finley, C.P. Finley. DJ and I went up there with Danny. Beautiful, beautiful golf venue. I'm not going to bore you with the details, but gorgeous day, incredible round of golf. The course was everything I've heard of.

It's typically rated somewhere in the top, you know, 10 to 15 courses worldwide. And it was a great day. On my way back from New York, I got rear-ended on the New Jersey turnpour. I mean, oh no. Yeah, I mean, I got whacked really good. It was lots of traffic and it was one of those, you know, stop and start, you know, and then all of a sudden starts to clear up and, you know, hit it and then slow down. And as I slowed down the guy behind me and I looked in my rear view and then as I stopped, I could see him not slowing down. I actually looked in my rear view and saw this guy barreling towards me. I'm like, he's going to hit. hit me. So I did the last second thing of trying to swerve. I was in the far left lane trying to swerve into that little median area. But it was too late. I mean, he got me and got me good.

A whole, you know, passenger rear side side panel, you know, the whole bumper back, you know, damaged pretty good. His was damaged badly too. I mean, he had coolants spilling out all over the New Jersey Turnpike up there. Between, you know, up there, exit 16, 17, somewhere around there. You know, right around Meadowland, Sea Caucus, you know. What time of days did this happen? What time was it? 3.34 o'clock.

So it's right. At the beginning of rush hour. It may have been a little bit later than that. Okay. It's probably 435-ish somewhere around there. Anyway, I was fine. Like, I mean, I could see it, and I knew I was going to take a pretty good belt from behind. But really, I was fine.

So I got out of the car, and then I'm thinking, God, we're here in the middle of the New Jersey turnpike, and it's hot as, you know what. And I get out, and he gets out, and we start walking towards each other. And, you know, it was very cordial. Remember, I'm trying to be nice. Remember, I told you last week, I'm trying to be nice to everybody. this is my new thing I'm always nice to people but I'm like I'm not going to get worked up over

little things this is what insurance is for anyway I just said to him are you all right he said yep are you all right and I said yeah and I said why don't we just do this we're not calling the cops because I'm not sitting around here and you're not going to sit around here and wait let me see your your insurance I'll take a picture of it

let me see your license I'll take a picture of the license insurance get your phone number I'll call you you can have mine and we can figure this out and we can get all to get the cars off the road to see, you know, if we can drive them. Because I need to know if I can get home because all I kept thinking was, God, I hope my car will run. The last thing I want to do is wait a couple of hours for tow truck

and then have to wait for some sort of rental. And I said, you probably should get this car, you know, off an exit if you can drive it pretty quickly because he was leaking all kinds of stuff. So it was an incredibly fast, cordial, exchange by two people behaving like adults on a very hot day in the middle of a pandemic and many other things. And I took to the next exit, picked a couple of pieces of his front grill off the back of my car. But my car was running. And I'm like, I can drive home. Now, he calls me like 10 minutes later after I pulled over. And he's like, the picture that I took of yours, it didn't

come through, we send it again? Sure, no problem. Send you a picture of mine. But I, But I did say to him then, obviously this is going to be something that your insurance company is going to have to take care of. I mean, and he's like 100%. I mean, I rear-ended. I came in and hit you from behind. You were stopped and had to be stopped. And so already I've heard from his insurance company today, and it's all going to be worked out perfectly. Nobody got hurt.

Everybody was kind and cordial. Now, he did not get out of the car with a mask on, nor did I, because my masks were in the back seat. and I just want, we never got with, you know, that close, we're out in the middle of the New Jersey turnpike for crying out loud. But that was story number one. All's well that ends well. I do have to take the car in right after this podcast, and I'm going to have to probably leave it in there for several days and drive a rental. Not the most convenient thing in the world, but you know what, Tommy? I'm healthy.

Although Neil and Rockville, when he heard me tell this story this morning on the radio show, said, I think your neck hurts I said excuse me I think your neck and your back hurt and I said no nothing hurts actually I'm fine but it'll all

you know somebody could have been seriously hurt and nobody was that's what you know you have car insurance for and I'll be inconvenienced here for a few days a lot of people have been a lot more than inconvenienced here over the last five months Well, that's a situation where you're unlucky to have an accident, but you feel very fortunate and lucky that you weren't hurt.

Right. Now let me get to my next story where you're going to say, I feel very, the other guy is lucky that he didn't get hurt. So this was either Thursday or Friday. No, it was Friday because I didn't do a radio show Friday and we didn't do a podcast Friday. And I got up and I went for a walk early and I'm walking down towards where a Starbucks is and I ordered a coffee via the app where you just go in and pick it up. And this was, he was probably 637 in the morning on Friday morning. I think it was Friday morning. Could have been Thursday morning.

It could have been Saturday morning. I think it was Friday morning though. It's not important. So I walk in to Starbucks, Tommy. The first person I thought of when this happened was these are the stories you love, and I wasn't going to call you and tell you about it. I was going to wait until our next podcast to tell you about it. So I walked into Starbucks, and I did not have a mask on.

I didn't bring a mask on my walk. I usually do. I usually bring a mask on my walk just in case I have to go in somewhere, just in case, you know, my wife texts and say, hey, are you near anywhere? near Giant or Safeway, we just go in and get whatever. But I didn't have a mask on me. I usually do too. I have a mask and a baggie.

I usually stick in my pocket. And in case I needed, it's with me. So I, but I didn't realize I didn't have a mask. Didn't realize that I walk in to pick up the coffee. And when the girl behind the counter comes over and said, uh, your name and I gave her my name. And then when I gave her my name, I realized when I spoke, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. I don't have a mask on.

My fault, I apologize. And she said, no problem, no problem at all. However, it was a problem to somebody who was in the Starbucks. Because I went to the pickup line, you know, where you order in advance via the app or whatever. I order it through the app. And then there's the regular line where you can order at the cash register. And this person was a guy 30s, maybe 40 years old. and this is what he said to me.

He said two things that I remember specifically verbatim. The rest, I'll paraphrase. He said, an apology isn't nearly good enough, dude. That's what he said to me. From, I don't know, six feet away. So I said, no, no, really. I blanked and I didn't mean to walk in without a mask. My fault.

I apologize. And this is the second statement that I remember verbatim. You forgot or you were trying to make a statement. Swear to God. Now you know, you've known me for a long time. This could elevate very quickly. But I said to him, I go, so, he said, you forgot or you were trying to make a statement. And I said, I forgot.

And he said something like, all right, if you say so. Meantime, by the way, he's not looking at me as he's talking to me. I hate people like that. You know, you already know that he's a bit of a coward because he's in his phone. When I told the story this morning, somebody said, yeah, he was on his phone tweeting out something about how every Redskin fan is a major league racist for having rooted for the team for all these years. years. But anyway, I digress. So I said, I forgot. And he said something like, you know, if you say so. So I just looked at him and I go, do you want to, like what I wanted to say is do you want to come outside and we can continue the conversation? Because I'm in this place without a mask on and I don't feel comfortable.

But I thought then he'd think I was inviting him out to try to kick his ass. And I thought that might come off as, as, you know, a threat. So I just said to him, and I'm paraphrase. And I'm paraphrase. phrasing now. I said something like, so let me understand this. You don't believe me that I made an honest mistake, which I have apologized to her for, and I actually apologize to you too. But I said, just a quick hypothetical. If you did believe me, would my apology be enough? You said, the first thing you said to me was that, you know, an apology isn't nearly good enough. Now he's annoyed and said something like, dude, have a nice day. And I said, so you don't want to have a conversation about it.

You've actually accused me of something and you don't have a conversation. So you're just going to cancel me right now in your own mind. And I said, if you really thought I was telling the truth, would it be enough? What wouldn't? I said, I'll be outside sitting here. I'd love to continue the conversation, but I bet you're too much of a coward to have one. And I walked out and I waited for him. And he walks out and I just looked at him and I said, you're an effing P.

what a coward. And he just gave me the fingers as he was walking away. And that was it. But in this environment, like we've heard a lot of stories about a lot of different things. And I actually had one of those real encounters with Mr. Cancel Culture, which by the way, a lot of people think doesn't exist. I promise you it does. As you know, I've had personal experience with one of my boys. And this is going back a couple of years. But, and it, you know, it's a young thing and it's an awful thing actually when you're not open to conversation and working things out through conversation um but anyway um uh that was it that was just priceless i was making i was making a statement i should have said yes i was making a statement

it's making a statement that you're an asshole um you know usually it's the other way around I mean, usually the guys that freak out, and, I mean, based on what I've seen on social media, I haven't had any personal experiences. So this is limited to social media. Usually the guys that act irrationally are the people without the math. Right. When they're called out. I guess. I mean, you know, typically.

Right. But this is the guy, you know, his second response was over the line. Oh, yeah. You forgot or you were trying to make a statement. He doesn't know anything about you. Once you said you apologize, that that was, that's it. It's not good enough, though, Tommy. We're seeing people, you know, who make honest mistakes, honest, you know, mistakes via words, via Twitter, via, you know, an accidental gesture of, and it's not, for, in a lot of places, it's not.

not enough right now to make honest mistakes and then be apologetic about them. Like if you had come back with a lot of to come back, we see on social media, with an angry like, you know, this is America or you don't tell me what to do or something like that. But I wouldn't because I was genuinely, I was actually,

I know, I got caught by surprise. I was like, fuck, I don't, I don't have my mask on. You know what it occurred to me is when I, when I told her,

my name was. You ordered, right? Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. So, look, I mean, the guy was an idiot. I mean, I have no problem in a store calling out someone who doesn't have a mask. Right, but if they tell you, but if they tell you, it's not, I don't want to apologize. Look, I'm really sorry. It was a mistake. Then that's it. It's over. I'm done. Yeah, not with a lot of people, though. Not with a lot of people. I mean, that's ridiculous. Well, the other part... Did you take a picture of them or something? No, I didn't.

But I did. I had a conversation with a friend of mine shortly thereafter, and he said something that to me is completely... Look, I'm not painting a broad brush over a large group of people right now. I don't want to do that because everything, everybody's got examples of every, you know, person, being open-minded or close-minded. But there is this, what did he say?

I'm forgetting what he said now. Anyway, it was something about just, you've got to be willing to accept an apology from someone you don't know and you don't know anything about. And then... And don't know anything about, absolutely. When invited to have a conversation, you know, even if it's a brief one about a disagreement, you've got to be open to it.

If not, you know, you don't really have a leg to stand on. But anyway, whatever. A friend of mine said something different that was more profound. Once you said, go outside, I'm sure he thought you were calling him out. Well, no, I didn't say that. I thought about saying that initially, like, I'm going to be out. Hey, dude, I'll be outside if you want to talk about it. I knew that would be taken the wrong way.

What I said after the brief follow-up encounter is I said, I'm going to be sitting outside drinking my coffee if you want to have a conversation about this. If not you're a coward, something like that. I don't know, whatever. I'm sick of all this right now, a lot of it. And you know what? Again, we're not even halfway through this. I know.

I know. You know, so you better get, you think you'll ever see him again at that Starbucks? I hope. I hope I do. Because next, because if I see him, next time I'm going in without the mask intentionally.

No, no, no, no. I'm kidding. You know, next time I'm going to go in, if I see him in there, I'm going to grab five masks and cover my whole head in it and say, remember me, motherfucker? No, I wouldn't do that.

So we got a lot to get to here today, obviously. I think we start with the press release from yesterday. I want to just update people on a couple of quick things. Number one, I don't know anything about the name. Other than what I heard a week and a half ago, is that what it was now? Something like a week and a half ago. And that is that the owner really likes warriors. And a couple of the people around them have always liked warriors.

and that's really what they had in mind. Now, there are all sorts of trademark and domain name issues. This is a process. Sports Business Daily reported the announcement of a new name's been delayed because of trademark issues. Now, I know Warriors, there is somebody that owns the domain name, the URL, and I believe somebody has maybe even some trademark stuff, although that may have gotten cleared up on that particular name. but anything can happen.

I don't know that anybody for sure knows the direction they're going in. So that was one thing that I wanted to mention. I also wanted to mention, and I don't know if you saw this, and we will talk about your column, I promise, which made me laugh your final line from your column. But on Sunday night, I tweeted out something that I knew when I tweeted it out, like I was like, I can't wait to see all the hate response from me. But I tweeted out the following.

My money is still on the Warriors, hashtag Warriors. I don't have a preference other than 11 and 5, which I don't. I don't have any preference on any of this stuff. But Tommy, you've seen all of the Twitter steam when it comes to Red Wolves and the momentum it has for Red Wolves. And so I wrote, Red Wolves is for a youth basketball team. Grow up. Oh, baby. There you go.

You know, you might as well use the board grow up. to that guy in Starbucks. Yeah. That's inflammatory. Right when I, like, I'm like, when I wrote that, I'm like, oh, do I go back? And I'm like, no, this will be fun. I mean, and it was, it was fun because I just love all these people. There are a million okay boomer responses.

But this is actually, I couldn't care less about red wolves or red hawks or warhawks or Red Tails or Warriors, I don't care at all about the new name at all. But Red Wolves to me, and seeing it trend on Twitter and see people, you know, going nuts over Red Wolves, it really reminds me of like teams that I've coached in the past that maybe didn't have a name. And I'd say, all right, anybody got any, you sixth graders, anybody have a really good idea for a new name? Coach, how about Red Wolves? Like, it's a, it's not, I think there's one college university, Arkansas State with Red Wolves. I don't care if the Redskins are named Red Wolves.

That's what it makes me think of, and I just added to grow up because I knew people would get super upset with it. I couldn't give a shit what the new name is. And yes, I know Warriors is a popular youth sports team name, too. I get it. But anyway, um, That was one of my favorite. I don't really get worked up over Twitter, but that's one of my favorite personal tweets that I've sent out in the last, you know, couple of months. Because I just, I know you really thrive on it on getting people all riled up.

I knew once I put the words grow up out there that people would get all worked up and it was hysterical. Did you respond to any? Some of them, yeah. Some of them I did. Okay. I'm looking through the responses because I don't remember what they were. A couple things. First of all, for those of you out there that believe that Twitter somehow is largely representative of like the fan base, I disagree.

I don't know that to be true. I could be wrong. I think social media is, you know, one-fifth at best representative of, you know, opinion. So, and I would certainly guess that young people loved Red Wolves more than older people, but I don't know that either. There was one, this sort of sums up how I feel right now. I don't care. I'm dispassionate, Tommy, about the whole thing. I'm much more interested in the ownership conversation.

That's much more interesting to me. I'm much more interested. And more important. If you're a fan. Yes. I'm much more interested in, you know, why Alex Santos and Richard Mann were fired the other day without any explanation. I think that that could be something that becomes more of a story here in the next few days. I don't know that for fact, but it wouldn't surprise me if there's another story out there that's coming out at some point here shortly about the organization.

Those are, and even those conversations, Tommy, I'm not so wrapped up in. Here's the bottom line, and I'm going to read to you something before we get to the Redskins press release. I'm going to read a tweet that I got last week after our Monday show when we did the Monday show or Tuesday show, whenever that was. It goes like this. Here it is. It was from Kevin. I'm not mad about the name change. I hope that those Native Americans who have been offended by the name are happy and feel less

marginalized now that the name is about to be laid to rest. With that said, my emotional attachment to the team will never be the same. I know that I just won't feel the same. And this guy, Kevin, wrote, if that's the cost of doing the right thing, I'm fine with it. I'm 45 years old. The memories I have of being a fan of the Washington Redskins, especially during the glory years, are mine, and they can't be taken away. I'm glad I have. I have. it in my life for as long as I had it. I wasn't guaranteed of it forever. There is a lot to that tweet from Kevin that I can completely identify with. I don't know how I'm going to feel in two years from now or five years from now with a new name if they're winning. But I can completely

empathize with what I would say is a majority of fans that are angered, sad, and feel like something you know, very dear to them has been taken away. I can totally relate to that. I don't feel that way right now, but Tommy, the reason I don't feel that way right now is multi, you know, fold. Number one, the team has sucked a life out of me, you know. I've mentioned this many times to you and on the show. I, like many of you out there listening, have just, you know, every ounce of passion and innate devotion to this team that we were born with pretty much, or born into, a lot of that has been sucked out of me over the last, you know, five, six, seven years in particular. You know, it's just the fatigue of just, you know, complete and utter dysfunctional ownership.

And then the name issue has been a fatigue issue as well. But I think also when you combine that with the last five months of being in this mode of totally unique territory where there are a lot of other things that are a lot more important and it's more obvious than ever. I think that's one of the reasons I'm not really passionate and I don't really care right now. I think if they were on a run of five straight playoff seasons with a Super Bowl loss and a championship game loss, but they were really good, I think I'd probably feel more passionate about this right now. But the timing of it, we talk about this before any of this happened, right? And I said to you, I do believe that if they're

ever going to change it, that actually the state of their fan base, which has been whittled down to the lowest number of people that truly care in a long time, that this would be the time to do it. We had that conversation long before George Floyd. Yes, absolutely. And we didn't, I mean, the fan, the impact financially would be the least that it's probably been because the least amount of people care. That's right. Yeah, I mean, you know what my position was a few years back when there was still a fan base and a passionate one. I mean, I understand why he was holding on to it from a monetary standpoint. but, you know, that risk has been so minimized.

And by the way, even if it hadn't been minimized, the climate were in, I'm not sure that there was much of a choice anyway at this point. But I thought that that was... Are you making a statement here? A statement about what? Well, I'm kind of riffing off your Starbiz incident. Are you making a statement here? No.

I don't even know. I guess the thing that bothers me the most about the last week to 10 days, whenever that was July 3rd, we'll get to their statement in a moment. I think that the thing that still bothers me the most is the Max Kellermans, the Peter Kings, the Mike Floreos, all the people who are breaking their arms, patting themselves on the back for this righteous job that they've done so well. You know, and then to really make it out, Tommy, as if the people that own the team, worked for the team, played for the team, and certainly those fans that rooted for it,

that they are, you know, they should be ashamed of themselves. You know, I mentioned this morning, and you're not a Game of Thrones guy, but it's, it's Searcy Lannister's walk of shame. It's almost like they want to, they want more than, than just the name change. They want people to be on their knees apologizing for being complicit and being enablers of this blatant, hateful, shameless, you know, name and the promotion of it. And, you know, you know this, I know this.

That's just not a true description of what this has been about. There's been complexity. There's been facts versus narratives. And I really, like, I have no. respect professionally anymore and none for those people that are celebrating their moral victory, you know, and trying to shame those of us that may, and many in the fan base that feel a loss yesterday and today or even for the last 10 days. I hope that it's all because they really feel like they've done something for a culture, but my sense of it is they're celebrating and

feeling good about themselves because in their own minds, they delivered just desserts to a group of longtime racist football fans. I hate that part of it because it's being documented and recorded now, Tommy, for the last couple of weeks and for the days that we'll follow, for many, you know, people to see down the road. And based on the way it's being recorded, they're not going to understand just how complex and how debatable this subject was. That bothers me.

I agree with a lot of what you said. Florio's the worst. I mean, he's already tweeting out. It will be interesting to see what journalists and others continue to use the name Redskins in referring to them. No words, he's already tweeted out.

I'm going to be watching you and I'm going to be calling you out if you use it in any reference. So, I mean, he's the worst at it. But, I mean, what I wrote in my column, and I think this is really at the heart of the matter, and some people maybe didn't recognize it until now,

is they haven't been the Redskins for 20 years. They just haven't. You know, I mean, you're in love with the Redskins you watch on YouTube. You know, there have been moments. Of course, there have been moments along the way, but they're not really the Redskins, the Redskins, the Redskins brand, the Redskins that were in your heart. part. They haven't, I mean, that's been lost for a long time.

So, I mean, the anger and the frustration about the name, really take a think of back and just, you know, this may make you feel a little bit, a little bit, not necessarily better, but a little bit to a realization of grief is that, you know, it's like, it's like saying goodbye, you know, I don't want to trivialize this moment. Okay, but it's like this, what I'm going to this description. But it's like saying goodbye to a loved one who's been sick for a long time.

Okay? But, I mean, people will tell you that person hasn't been that person for a long time. You know? I mean, the Redskins have not been the team that fans fell in love with for decades.

And, you know, I mean, the best you can do, is just say, okay, that's been dead for a while. Now it's time to try to cheer for something new. Yeah, it's, well, this is what I, this is how I feel. You just described, I'm part of that. It's not been the same,

and that's why I'm not, you know, as passionate in my conversation about this or my defense of it, because yes, for many, I mean, it's like, boy, you know what, though, she had a great run, you know? What a run. Yeah. I mean, lived to 90 or 87 or whatever it is. And in the last couple of years, there was just no quality of life. You know, the last 20 years, in fact, no quality of life.

So, you know, it's time. It's time. Yeah, no, I agree. Now, your last. I compared it. Okay, go ahead. I just want to read your last line of the column. if you're not going to get to it.

Go ahead. First of all, Tommy's column is really, really good. I'll just read to you the last two sentence. Because the information I used in that is partly from the statement that the Redskins release. Which we'll get to. The terms of tradition and pride. Oh, okay. Well, I didn't even pick up on that because I think when I had read it,

I hadn't even read the statement yet. your last two sentences. You want to know what happened to your Washington Redskins? They were bought by a guy who claimed to know about tradition and pride, but couldn't find either if they were under his yacht captain's hat. Can you see him on his boat right now wearing the yacht captain's hat? I'm absolutely. I know. Exactly.

Exactly. You know, where are we? Porter Starboard captain. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, God. So here was the statement from the team. What else? Before we get this, did you have anything else to add to what you were just talking? Well, the other thing, the way it described in my column, I said, it's like going to see a concert for the temptation. Right.

And not having one live temptation there. Not one of the guys who sang the song, you know, My Girl, or Cloud 9 or Ball Confusion. they're all dead. You know, but you're up there watching the temptations. And it's not the same. No. It's not really the temptations. It's a Beatles cover band. They're not really the Redskins.

They haven't been. It's true. It is true. And it's hard for certain people of a certain age, a younger age, to even identify with what we're talking about. Well, yeah, because they get angry because they're saying, what do you mean? give me what I've been spending my time with isn't real right my devotion isn't real what did I miss they get angry about what they miss yeah they do um it's uh it's it's it's I took calls for a long period of time this morning and I you know after our show last week I actually went through a lot

of the responses and there I read one of them and there were several that were good I The one thing that I did come to the conclusion on, this is obviously not scientific, and it's all based on the interaction that I have had. But I'll read you another quick two tweets. This one came from Manny. It'll never be the same again for me. I can feel it already. Kevin, you've always talked about brand loyalty. I'm loyal to the brand of the Washington Redskins. It just won't seem the same if they are the Red Hawks or Warriors. It just won't seem like my team. If the team had been really good in recent years, maybe I would have been able to adjust and adapt, but it was hard enough to keep an interest in the team in recent years anyway. Now I'll just be an NFL fan.

And then this from Vic, Sheehan, I'm officially out. I'm too old to start over. This thing is going to be for a younger generation. I've been a diehard since 1979 when I was a boy. It's Cowboys versus Redskins, not Cowboys versus Warriors. Giants versus Braves or Eagles versus Red Tails. Just say that a few times to yourself. Cowboys Warriors.

No feelings at all for me. Good luck to all those that feel different. I don't know about your experience in communicating with people. I would say that somewhere around 50 to 60 percent, called 55 percent are people that really are sad and a combination of anger. anger and sad and feeling as if, you know, as you described, they lost a family member who, to your point, has been sick for a while. I think that, you know, roughly 15 to 20 percent are people that feel like the team is bowing to the mob's narrative and they're frustrated at that. I got a lot of that. I got a lot of people who just don't care anymore because they've

lost interest in the team. And I got people who just said, you know, and this was probably no more than 10, 15 percent said they've finally done the right thing, that, you know, they were satisfied with that. That's not, I promise you that the national media that's delighting in this franchise's name change, they don't have the attachment and the connection to the fan base like we do here. and they don't understand. Now, look, this climate that we're in right now, we probably have a lot more people who are just like, fine, let's do it, let's move on, it's the right thing to do now. And they may have felt differently, you know, three months ago or four months, you know, or a month and a half ago. In fact, I mean, I suggested that with all of the actual factual data that we have, you know, that would indicate that really this is an issue to non-Native Americans much more than it has been to Native Americans. Americans. I do think that if the posts were to conduct a similar poll like they did in 2016 right now, that the results would for the first time be significantly different. Because I think people

are wrapped up into what's going on for good and bad. You know, lots of good, lots of, you know, still to be determined to come out of all of this. But I bet the results would be different. Maybe somebody is working on a new poll and that'll make them feel, you know, even better. But yeah, I don't Well, like I said all along, I mean, for the anti-nameers, throughout all this thing, most of the thing, if they had a poll that was the opposite of the Washington Post-orny Annenberg poll, they would have brought it out. And you know they pulled, they tried. I mean, you know they tried to conduct their own polls and probably kept the result secret

it because for fear of embarrassment of what it would be. What are you saying there? I mean, I think I know what you're saying, but I want you to be clear. No, it's like the anti-nameers, when the Annenberg poll came out, what, 15 years at Polgo? 2004, you? Came out in 2016. I'm sure during that time, those who waved the campaign against the name probably tried to conduct their own poll. doubt. You know, and I'm saying if they did and we never read about it or heard about it,

that's because the results were not what they wanted. I mean, for so much of the conversation, you know, you and I would have this conversation on our show and I would say over and over again, it's time for their answer, their definitive mic-drop position to be earned, not sold. You know, it was, you know, it was always this implausible, ridiculous comparison to the N-word. There was a whole lot of fast talking about outdated polls. But we would say this. It was like, okay, if it's outdated, give us the new one. Give us the new one.

If there's a new one, I want to see it and I'll be totally on board with you if it reflects. But at the same time, you know, there wasn't one. And as you said, there were probably several done that had results similar to what the post generated in 2016. And their jaws dropped and hit the ground. And the methodology was probably in their minds, really good, but it was probably slanted towards coming up with a different result anyway. And there was just no actual supporting, you know, unless you were of the opinion, it's racist defined. so it doesn't matter, or one person is enough for me. You know, if one person's offended, that's enough for me.

If you were of either one of those positions, we can do, I don't agree with either one of those positions. I think there should be a second non-pejorative definition. This is what the words meant for 50 to 75 years. No one uses this to describe anything having to do with Native Americans and haven't for my entire lifetime plus. but this you know so it was time for that

and you know and one person to me is not enough I mean everybody you can pull anybody on anything and there's always going to be one out of ten that are offended for whatever reason so you can't go changing everything in America

in the country for one out of ten but to your point there was never any other information I was on a ride back when I finally got my car and was driving back on the turnpike. I was listening to Mad Dog radio. Mad Dog went off the air at seven or whatever.

Six, six maybe. I can't remember the times now. And whoever came on afterwards was just insufferable in describing this. He was so wrong about everything. He said there was five polls done that indicated that Native Americans overwhelmingly

were offended and these nut jobs, he referred to him, are holding on to this Washington Post poll. I'm like, what are you know, like I wanted to call in and say, no, I, I, you're going to have to tell me about those other five, because I'm unfamiliar with them. But yeah, no, to your point, if this, if they had had more than just a dictionary definition, we would have seen it. You know, absolutely. But we never did. Absolutely. No, we never did. And, you know, uh, I mean, eventually, uh, circumstances came.

around to embrace their way of thinking. And it just got swept up in it. And like you said, there's no choice, no matter what you think now. There was no choice except to change the name at this point. The ironic thing I pointed out in my column is the Atlanta Braves said they're not going to change their name. The Redskins exist because of the Braves. Explain that to everybody. I read your column, but explained it to everybody.

Yeah, George Preston Marshall, when he was awarded, given an NFL franchise in 1932, you know, they wanted him to play in Boston. So he went up to Boston, and there were two baseball teams there, the Red Sox that played at Fenway Park, and the Boston Braves, who played at Brave Field. So Marshall made a deal to play at Brave Field. And to piggyback on the name recognition of the baseball team, he called his football team the Boston Braves. The next year, they moved to Fenway Park.

So, Snyder, Marshall changed the name and to keep in line with the Red So, and with his Indian motif, he called them the Redskins. and my point is if that team in Boston, if the Braves had been called like the Patriots or the T-Pots or something like that when they first started, I mean, Marshall. Doing it. Marshall would have never called the team the Reds, the Braves or the Redskins.

You know, if that baseball team had been named something else, Marshall would have named his team something along those. line. And so here you have the baseball team that created the Redskins now refusing to change their name from the Braves. I think that's ironic. I think what's really ironic is that the Redskins with respect to the name issue, I hate to call it a debate because those that were not in favor of the name continuing never wanted to debate. It really, they They didn't want a real concrete conversation because, as we just discussed, it was a dictionary definition pretty much as the solo ammunition in that argument. But the irony is that the Redskins, with respect to the name, had never been in a safer position than they were prior to a month and a half ago.

You know, 2016 poll, the Supreme Court decision, which basically protected their trademark. the survey that was taken that identified the word proud as the word that comes to mind more than any other for Native Americans when they hear about the Redskins football team. So it was really, it was, it was always, the possibility of it always resurfacing was always going to be there because if they ever had like a Robert Griffin the third year, then people were going to, take aim at the team name, just like they did starting in 2012. It was really RG3 that brought this whole conversation back because he was so good. He was such a star for that first year. And the Redskins all of a sudden were relevant for a brief moment after years of not being relevant. And so something was always going to, no one could have predicted a cultural revolution

that would have prompted, you know, big corporation. to for the first time legitimately say, sorry, you're going to lose our relationship, our economic relationship and partnership, if you continue with the name. Because that's, you know, that was the result of this cultural revolution. Or at least they felt like it would have been the result. And it gave them the ability to really make legitimate threats, which, you know, Dan Snyder is not doing this from a position of, oh, I have finally seen the light. That's not what's going on here.

No, no, no. This is basically giving in, and you know he's angry about it. You just know he's angry about it. I mean, what I think does not bode well for people in that building moving forward once his name change happens. Yeah, if he's still there.

That's just psychological conjecture based on nothing more than the behaviors we've come to expect from Snyder in the past. He's going to be angry about this. He's not going to be happy about this, not at all. And he's going to sit there thinking, I can't even name my football team what I want to call them. And you mean to tell me I can't draft that guy in the first round? Bullshit.

You're hoping for that. No, I just think that's a possible behavior out of this. I just think it's possible. There's Redskins breaking news. Kelvin Harmon, who was their rookie wide receiver last year out of NC State, was thought to be a promising, you know, second-year player opposite Terry McLaren. Cooley thought, you know, he was the best blocking wide receiver on the team. Tours ACL, according to Les Carpenter.

Actually, first reported by Ian Rappaport. So that's unbelievable. Of course. Guys getting hurt before they even have training camp. Right. So you have that. Which is certainly possible. You know, it's possible.

You know, guys working out. They get hurt. But, you know, they're already, the Washington Football Club is already a question market-wide receiver. And one of the guys they were counting on won't see the field. until 2021, which not at a May at some point. Maybe part of your Danny's going to get right back involved. Oh, real quickly, before I forget, I can't believe I almost forgot this.

Did you see that tweet the other day? Did we talk about this Howard Bryant tweet the other day about Mr. Snyder? Do you remember Howard, right? I know Howard Bryant. Yeah, Howard covered the team for the post there for a while. and I don't know what he's doing these days. He worked for ESPN, I think. He tweeted out last weekend, I'm looking for it.

Hold on, I need to find it. Basically, he said in my first, I'm paraphrasing now, because he tweeted it several days ago. In my first meeting with Dan Snyder, the first time I met him, I was with Jason Lockenforah, who was working for the post at the time as well. Jason introduced. me. I said, hi, Dan. How are you? I'm Howard Bryant. Nice to meet you. And he looked at him and said,

it's Mr. Snyder. I mean, I know so many of those stories. So many of those stories. Absolutely. And it's not Dan. It's Daniel. Yeah. And so for those of you that have gotten on me before, because I'm just off put when I hear grown men referring to him as Mr. Snyder, that's part of it. Like, come on. You know, Ron Rivera referred to his last owner as David, David Tepper. I don't know what he called Jerry. Jerry was older. But anyway, so, all right, so I want to get to...

But yeah, that's why he likes being referred to Daniel as well, particularly in print. Such a nightmare of a 20 years. All right, we'll get to the team statement here in a moment. I have a quick word about Hawthorne. That's hawthorn with an e.c.c.com. smelling good is important to you because Hawthorne smells really good. And getting Hawthorne Cologne is so easy. First of all, you go to hawthorne.co and you take a quiz. It's such an interesting quiz. It's probably something that most of you have never thought about. And that is

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All right, let's get to the statement that the team put out yesterday, because I think there's a lot here that's worth discussing, Tommy. The team yesterday morning put out a statement that was certainly not, unexpected. I think everybody has known that the team name was going to change. They haven't made it, they hadn't made it official since the July 3rd statement that they were going to review the team's name. So they put out a statement yesterday, which you get and I get on their letterhead. And their letterhead was, you know, the big red banner at the top with the Redskin logo, Washington Redskins, Inova Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park, Loudoun County, Virginia, 21300 Redskins Park Drive,

wwwWW.redskins.com slash media.redskins.com. For immediate release, July 13th, 2020, the headline is statement from the Washington Redskins football team. And the statement is short, and I'll read it. On July 3rd, we announced the commencement of a thorough review of the team's name. That review has begun, As part of the process, we want to keep our sponsors, fans, and community apprised of our thinking as we go forward. Today we are announcing we will be retiring the Redskins' name and logo upon completion of this review. Dan Snyder and Coach Rivera are working closely to develop a new name and design approach that will enhance the standing of our proud tradition rich franchise and inspire our sponsors, fans, fans,

and inspire our sponsors, fans, and community for the next 100 years. So in that press release, they mentioned Redskins. I think it was seven times. They have the logo on their letterhead. Somebody, I read it last night when I got home, because I just saw the announcement on Twitter, and I didn't read the actual press release until I got home. And my first reaction was,

there is certainly a smidge of defiance here. of Dan Snyder Defiance here in this release. What did you think? Oh, yeah, absolutely. It was, look, I didn't think it was, you know, the worst. I mean, some people were so outraged by it, like that dope Max Kellerman. They absolutely went nuts about it, you know. What did that?

I don't know. What did he say? Just basically, you know, I don't remember what he said exactly, but it was just made him a far bigger deal. He didn't like the statement that was made. Did he need more of an apology? Wasn't good enough for him? Yeah.

Yeah. A lot of that. Yeah. I thought it was a, and I mentioned it in the column, I thought it was a weak statement. I think when you make a kind of move like this, you've got to have a quote from the owner. Yeah, right. The owner has to have a quote. Right.

Not just mentioning his name, you know, but you got to have a quote from the owner. But that shows you how distasteful this is for him. and the fact that Ron Rivera, who's been here for five minutes, is being pushed front and centered on this whole name change, just to me illustrates how diminished the value of this franchise has become, is that a guy who's here for five minutes is all of a sudden going to dictate what this team has, you know, the name of this team that has been in existence since 1937, not dictate, but help help lead the way. As far as we read, I mean, it's Dan Snyder, followed by Ron Rivera. That's it. He's been here for five minutes. I'll start with that. Definitely. And I don't know how much influence he really has,

but clearly they want us to believe that he's got a lot of influence. Why? Because he's only been five here for five minutes, which means there hadn't been enough time for him here for us to hate him yet. And we hate everybody else. So, you know, we were told on the, on the happy Thanksgiving introduction that, you know, it was coach-centric and Ron was going to be the face and voice of the franchise. And here's the other, this is true, this is definitely true. Dan Snyder does not want to communicate anything. He's not comfortable being the face of the voice of the franchise. You're right.

The quote was missing. There should have been a quote in there somewhere. There were several things. The Rivera thing is just funny because it's like he's been here for five minutes. So why wouldn't you use Rivera to make all these big decisions? I would doubt that he's really making the decisions. You know, he's probably involved in some of the conversations. But then again, Dan may not have anybody around him anymore.

You know, there are a couple of people, including the new people. PR agency that I've heard is, you know, the latest of the PR people to perhaps have his ear right now. But, you know, yesterday, the three of us, four of us, Danny, J.P. CJ and I were talking about the same thing that you just brought up. It's like, are you serious? Ron Rivera is significant in this? And it was JP who said, I mean, it would have been one thing had he actually won that Super Bowl. And CJ said he got his ass kicked by this terrible team just last November. Of course, that's tongue placed firmly in cheek. But the point is, come on, man, Dan, are you that, are you that detached to believe,

or do you think we're that gullible to believe that the guy that just arrived here that everybody likes for now, you know, can sort of help you through this? Ron's a great coach. I think he's a really good coach. I think he's probably a first-rate guy based on the limited experience that all of us in the market have had. And I'm rooting for him, and I think he'll do well. But he can't relate to me or to a lot of you listening and the way we feel and the attachment we've had at various points of our lives to this team and the intricacies of all of it and the detail involved in everything. that's going. He can't possibly be the person that is the lead voice in this or or a co-lead voice

in this. That would that's, you know what, that's not fair to him. No, because here's not. Because here's something that, again, the national media, because they're so convinced they've just righted the worst wrong in the history of racial conversation in this country, what they don't realize and what I hope Ron realizes, but I have a sense that he may not is that if he's the lead guy on changing the team name and coming up with the new name, which you know there will be disagreement about. I mean, not everybody's going to agree on everything. The people that are angry and sad right now who feel like they've lost a loved one,

they're going to blame him. Don't put him in that position, Dan. This is you, just like the Thysman jersey with Askins. That's you. Stand up and say, look, Seriously, I have so much more respect for him. If he stood up or if there's a quote in here that said, I don't know that this isn't something that I ever thought we'd have to do.

Every single, we visited over 117 reservations over a four-year period. And overwhelmingly, when we went out to talk to these people directly and not just rely on the overwhelming results of polling, This was something that overwhelmingly they said don't change. It gives us, you know, he loves to use, you know, it's a source of pride and honor and the whole thing. So you dress that up a little bit. But bottom line, brass tax, we're going to lose big money if we don't change the team name. This is a business decision.

I'd have more respect for him if he said that. I love when you go into your PR mode for the team. I love it. That wasn't as good as some of the others. No. I love when you do that, though. Usually you answer it with, are you, where have you been hiding? You know, what popped into my head is, you know, a coach for any team in this town, but particularly this Redskins team, would be well served by sitting down with you and I privately

before they take the job or even after they take the job. and asking this one question, what do I need to know? Well, I had that opportunity, remember, with Brian Lafamina. Brian called me, you know, shortly after he got hired, and he said, will you come spend some time with me at the park? I said, absolutely. He said, there's several people out here that, you know, I've told you this story.

There are people out here that suggested that I reach out to you to talk, you know, about what I'm coming into and the team and the whole thing. and I sat with him one day at the park for, you know, an hour. And we talked about it. Did you repeat my line, rent, not buy? I did not. I don't know. I forget.

No, the podcast had started. It was after because I remember it was like early September. Like the season had just started, actually, when we finally got together. But I remember the bottom line to everything, and that was, Nothing matters as much as improving your football operations so that you can win. You know, all of the other stuff is important, you know, in terms of the way the organization represents itself and how it handles various things because it's been, and I told him, I said, it's been a complete and utter shit show for a while now. Like they've compounded losing with an embarrassing way in which they've lost, both on and off the field. But I said it's all about winning.

And, you know, I remember he was focused very much on the new stadium. At the time, I think Bruce was making progress. And I said, you know, the new stadium's great. It better be in D.C. And he said, some of our data is suggesting that it doesn't have to be there. And I said, it has to be there. I can, you know what I mean? I was like, I don't care what some survey or polling is telling you.

You asked me out here, it's got to be in D.C. but that's way down the list, you know, from actually creating a competent football operation that wins and has sustained ability to win. But I forget how we got sidetracked on this. I wanted to mention other things about this press release because there were a couple of things that were interesting. First of all, the statement itself didn't say that they have retired the name and logo. the statement says they will be retiring the Redskins name and logo upon completion of the review. I don't have any clue as to whether or not they're trying to rush this before the season starts or whether or not they'll go with our idea from last week of FC Washington for a year

and really vet it out and make sure that they've got all their eyes dotted and all their T's crossed on this thing because the last thing they want to do is rush into something and get it wrong, which would be just like them. But they did not say that it's been retired. They say it will be retired upon completion of this review. I don't know how long the review is going to last. If you have been reading from various sports name-changing marketing people that have been quoted in various stories,

this can be a two-year process to do it, Right. But we wouldn't you agree that they can't carry the Redskins name until they do that right? Of course I agree with that. But that's not what he said. I know, you're right. You're right. I mean, if they're going to delay this, I mean, you know, the only alternative is Washington Football Club. That's the only alternative. There are two other things about this statement. One is how they highlight sponsors before even fans and community. twice in the press release. It's almost a subtle way to say, we are doing this for our sponsors, you know?

Because typically you don't, as part of this process, we want to keep our sponsors fans and community apprised at the end of it. Our tradition-rich franchise, and we want to inspire our sponsors, fans and community. I think that's on purpose, personally. So I was thinking about some,

something that I forget if you and I talked about this together or whether it was another conversation. But I think it's a really good point. Neil and Rockville, I think, reminded me of this point during the show this morning. And that is, and if this was a conversation with you, you can say it because I want to credit, you know, the right person for it. Because I don't want to hear that, you know, I forgot that I had this conversation with you for the next two days. So I think that there is validity to the following, that the franchise is actually at least slightly more valuable if the new buyer, if the owner is interested in selling it, can pick the name and the logo and the branding himself or herself. I think that that makes it interesting when they said they're retiring the Redskins name and logo upon completion of this review. they're working closely together to develop a new name and design approach.

This could be a delay tactic. If the interest in selling the team is there, if there's any sort of truth to any of the conversation that's been had, it's not much more valuable. It's at least slightly more valuable in my, this is me. I could be wrong about this. But I think there's more value to the new buyer if that person, gets to pick the name and the brand and the logo, the name logo and all the branding.

I would agree with that. I would agree that that would raise the value. What's going to raise the value more of the team is in the next two years when the new TV deals are made. Sure. That's going to raise the value significantly. That's why I don't think Snyder is looking to sell the team based on what I've heard. But even if he is, he's not going to sell the team until those TV deals go through and hit the value, even if he drives it into the ground,

will rise significantly with the new TV contracts. So the combination of those two, I think would indicate that if you wait on this name and then you wait for the TV deals to be made, you're going to make a lot more money if you sell the franchise then than if you sell it now. I think that that can be built in a little bit.

You're right. There's nothing that really at this point you don't know and you don't know how this season's going to impact things in terms of future television deals. It may be better to sell on the come than on what ends up being reality. There's also another part to this, and I was just thinking about this, that I mean this could never, This would never enter his mind, but in so many ways this organization is so much more valuable without him in it. You know, just removing the owner makes this franchise much more valuable, because there will be a reaction to Snyder being gone that will be unbelievable to people who haven't been paying attention to this. removing him from this franchise, if we didn't have a pandemic would be cause for a parade.

Like the first parade they've had since January of 92. So this organization being sold is actually so much more valuable without him in it. And immediately the interest level from people who have checked out returns and they get a second chance with the new owner. And tickets start. What right now, obvious, this is obvious to me. What would spark legitimate, if we knew we could attend games, ticket sales, a sale of the team without, Dan Snyder being long gone from the organization. Oh, yeah. And the hope for a new day.

You know, it's like making a cigarette that doesn't give you cancer. Yes. Yeah. It's that you don't need to serve in general during anymore. It's really harsh. But my point is I always refer to the Surgeon General's warning when I talk about the Redskins, saying that it doesn't matter who coaches the team. It doesn't matter what players you pick.

As long as Dan Snyder is the owner, this team will never win. That's my Surgeon General's warning. You don't need it anymore then. But Tommy, you understand what I'm saying here. This is a really unique case in terms of if – look, this is major hypothetical. on him being interested in selling the team. Right. But it really is worth so much more without him in it.

There would be a resurgence of interest like you read about in the team locally without him involved. It's really taking the worst part of this organization out of the equation. The thing more than any other that is a major deterrent to interest right now, that has to be factored into the price. I'll tell you what. I know, you're right. You're right about all that, but you might as well wish

that you were sitting in front of Brooklyn Decker for the likelihood that he's going to sell the team. Oh, okay. Well, that did happen. Again. The sitting in front of Brooklyn Decker was certainly a once-in-a-lifetime experience for Tom Levero. He could barely even see.

Again, happen a second time. Okay. I just, Snyder is not selling the team. I mean, because, again, I mean, you know, it's what I've been told. It's not 100% solid. But, look, like I said, there's a segment of Redskins fans out there that believe Ron Rivera is the guy who's going to change things.

Snyder's probably one of them. Yeah. Well, could happen. But as long as, look, here's what's not going to happen. Everybody needs to understand this. As long as he owns the team, they'll never, ever be a sustained, consistent winner. They just won't be. That is the overwhelming odds favorite.

And you don't need to go back very far to have proof of that. They've had quality coaches. They've had some quality people. now it's hard to attract them but they did they got lucky with another one in Rivera but uh yeah uh Rivera who now has the job of head coach of team president of general manager of lead PR guy uh he's probably back there handling some of the accounting and legal work too in the back offices of Ashburn you think he's overwhelmed I think it was Liz and and or Les Carpenter that wrote about it a few weeks ago about how thin he was stretched. I can believe it. You know, that's not a good, that's not a good recipe for him to get off to a good coaching start. But then again, in the midst of what we're going through, it's not like he's able to, you know, hold practices or workouts, OTAs or anything like that anyway. You would like to see him focused on compiling and building the right

roster here. Yeah. You know, I mean, you can see it right now. You can see it right now. He's walking around the building and one of the assistant coaches is that, Ron, I need, major for a second. I'm putting in this scheme against you know, defensively, Jack Del Rio and the other defensive coaches. We need you to look at something. We need some help. Because on that zone run

scheme that we're going to probably see once or twice this year, we got a couple of new guys. It's Tuesday. I can be there Friday at three. Does that work? Dan and I right now are really tied into team colors

and signage. and stadium signage. FedEx is going to rip everything down, I guess. Was that a story from Lesway? Yeah, what do you think Gibbs thinks of all this? Like Gibbs is the guy who helped convince Rivera to take the job. What do you think gives things involved in? I don't know what he thinks.

I'm sure. You know what I would love to know. We've talked about this before. I'd love to know what Joe really thinks of Dan. Yeah. And I don't know if we'll ever know that answer because Dan's been a significant. contributor to, you know, Joe's charities over the years.

Joe's charities, yeah. Now, I don't think we'll ever know that answer. Yeah. Absolutely not. I did want to read something that I saw earlier from Mark Mosley. There were, you know, there were a lot of former player responses. A lot of them said, this is time, it's fine, doesn't erase the history. Jeff Bostic was critical of it.

Mark Mosley, I don't have the entire interview here. I think it's an interview he did with Scott Abraham. Exactly, from Channel 7, right? So there's this quote, quote, these radicals once again are going to jump up and down and holler and scream that we won, we won. They haven't won a damn thing. All they have done is hurt the Native Americans.

I hope they are happy with themselves, closed quote. And I don't know if Mark's being praised and hailed by Redskin fans more than being criticized, but you know that there are going to be many people that are harshly critical of that comment. Mark Mosley, a former NFL MVP, if you didn't know. We all know that. I wanted to mention this in his defense because I know that Mark Mosley was one of those former players that spent a lot of time on the road visiting Indians, tribes, Native Americans in reservations during that few year period

where the original Redskins' original Foundation, that group that they put together were out visiting over a hundred of these places. And Mark Mosley was at a lot of them. And I remembered this story and I followed up on this story with somebody late last week who was there with Mark at some of these. Not Cooley, by the way. Cooley was at a lot of them too. And the person recalled the story that they had told me,

which was, Mosley was really, really great with, you know, representing the team, but he was very hesitant early on because he was very afraid of offending anybody. And so when he would go in, he was always the one that was very sort of hesitant to use the word unless he felt like it was okay. And he quickly learned that, you know, overwhelmingly the reaction was always very positive. It was, we love the name. Don't change the name. We're huge fans.

And, you know, a lot of the guys that went on these things that I talked to, or at least a few of them, said there were always tons of redskinned jerseys and people really excited to meet some of their former heroes. And, you know, somebody pointed out, the same person pointed out to me the other day. There were always a lot of cowboy and raider jerseys, too. A lot of NFL fans. Anyway, you know, let's keep in mind that not all of us, me included, other than just interaction on phones or social media or whatever. with people who claim to be Native American. Very few of us have spent the time, you know, doing the work here,

you know, not relying just on the overwhelming results of polls, but actually going out and talking to Native Americans and spending time. And I understand that the context of this is, here come the Redskins and, you know, the people that are excited about the Redskins are going to be there to greet them. there's a lot there that I'm sure is nuanced and may have helped to generate the results, whatever. Cooley went to a lot of reservations without the Redskins because he's in Wyoming and he's out there a lot and he knows where, and he's spent a lot of time on his own going to places. But I do think there's something to be said for those players and those people that have done that work, Tommy,

that have personal interaction and direct experience with what that culture and what that community really thinks of this? There's something to be said, but they needed somebody else to say it for them, and they never did that. Right. Now, we talked about this before. Yes, yes. They said what they did. They didn't need players who people would say, well, they have an agenda. Right.

You know, their ex-redskins. They needed to bring along a group of reporters on all these trips and say, look, this is what we're doing. You write whatever you want. You report whatever you want. This is what we're doing. Yeah. No, that's fair, too. This thing became, was a secret for the most part.

You know? It wasn't a secret. A secret. No, if it came from the team, it didn't count. Right. If it came from the team, it was going to be dismissed as propaganda. Yeah. It's just that...

It needed to come from a objective, so-called objective observers. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I have a hard time believing, you know, when I was working with Chris and he would, you know, be off for four days because he was out west visiting various reservations with the team and he'd come back and he'd give me descriptive detail of how it would go. I sort of have a hard time believing that he was coming back a lying to me about what the results were. When you have to ask people to make that leap, you've already lost half the battle. You're right. It would have been smart. Maybe they didn't do it that way because they were hesitant early on, but they should have learned early on.

Hey, this is the reaction. Let's take three people from the post with us. Yeah. And maybe a guy from the Times, just one guy from the Times. Me. Take me out there. Yeah. Hit a few of those casinos while I'm out there. Hey, quick change of subject. What did you think of this Adrian Wojnerowski story?

You can't send an FU email response to anybody, let alone a politician, if you represent a media company. You can't do that. For those that missed it, ESPN suspended one of the best reporters at ESPN. Adrian Wojnarowski, who's covered the NBA for a long period of time. I don't know that anybody breaks more news than Woge does at ESPN. I mean, maybe Adam. He's remarkable. He's a remarkable reporter.

But it's disingenuous that some of the support he's gotten from other reporters. you know, who I'd like to see the reaction of their media companies if a politician sent them an email and they responded with, you know, FU. So how long they would have their job. Let me just real quickly update people on what we're talking about. Josh Hawley, Senator from Missouri, Republican Senator, sent out a tweet that read as follows. Don't criticize China or express support for law enforcement to ESPN. It makes them real mad.

And he and Adrian Wojnerowski responded, FU. And by the way, it wasn't FU, it was the word. And, you know, this is a reporter. Now, for those that are unfamiliar with the whole China thing, I mean, you had Daryl Morey, the general manager of the Rockets, express his feelings about what was going on in Hong Kong back in the fall, and China was outraged, and the NBA cowtowed to China, you know, starting with LeBron James and players and Adam Silver and everybody else.

China is massive business for the NBA. It is a massive revenue stream for the NBA. And the NBA, let's face it, Tommy, they cowtowed to China in October. Yes, they did. Yes, they did. You're right. And this politician, what they wrote, it's not that assert.

It isn't. And by the way, it was not an attack on Adrian Wojnarowski personally. No, it's reasonable to believe. There are reasonable people who believe that if the NBA is involved and if it's an NBA's interest, it's in ESPN's interest. So if the NBA is going to protect China, it's reasonable to make the leap that ESPN would as well. Now, I bring this story up because the reaction from players around the NBA, including King James LeBron, this hashtag free Woge. Woge got suspended, by the way, by ESPN for this. Not fired, just suspended. And I think that's reasonable.

I agree with you. I totally agree with you. I'm not about to cancel somebody for one mistake, you know, but. Let's face it, in other areas of this country right now, he wouldn't have had a chance of surviving this. I think if he were on the other side, Tommy, bear with me, and had sent a similar response to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I think he could have been fired. And probably the reaction would have been much different. Yeah, the reaction would have been much different. But my fascination with this is just all the NBA players with the hashtag,

free Woj. Do you guys understand what this was about? Do you understand what goes on in China? Do you understand the threat they pose to the rest of the world? Like, you cannot respond as, do you understand journalism? Explain it to him, Tommy. Explain to LeBron James that Adrian Wojornowski can't respond,

F you, to a sitting senator. something that didn't even deal with him specifically. There has to be some sense of objectivity in his job. Not our jobs. We are so-called, we're more op-eds. We're opinion makers. We're not reporters. Woh's a reporter.

Yeah. And one thing it does illustrate, though. And, you know, you've got to be a little bit jealous if you're in a media. The level of respect that athletes have for WOCH. Well, it's, look, it's self-exempt. serving some of it. I know, but it's pretty impressive. Yeah, they really, they like him.

He's really good at his job. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. But like I said, you know, I mean, you can't do this. He was out of bounds. And I don't care about the players defending him. It's the other media members, his friends who are defending him. That drives me nuts. Because, I mean, it's unacceptable.

You know, look, I get it. I'm old school. There's no more rule anymore in this business. You know? I mean, I grew up at a time in journalism where the, you wouldn't, if you were out on the street and somebody came up to you with a petition, you couldn't. You felt you couldn't sign it because it would have been a conflict of interest. Right.

It would have compromised you, even if it was something that you would never have any interest in covering at all. There was a time where that was the editor of the Washington Post, Len Downey, the managing editor, did not register to vote with any political party because he felt he needed to be registered as an independent to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. Well, that ship has a sale to this business now. Completely. Everybody has an interest now, and they're not afraid to promote it. it really i i was reading more the athlete's response you telling me that there were so many of his colleagues reporters who were supporting him too how can you be a journalist and support that i mean that is complete bias you can support him you can't support i agree with that so was the support

for the actor was it but you know what tommy you shouldn't do it publicly you should text him or call him and say, hey, I hope, you know, you're a friend of mine, you're terrific at what you do, you know, I don't agree with what you did, but I'm supportive of you as a person, and I hope, you know, because there are plenty of instances with the, that if the shoe had been on the other foot, this person would have been completely canceled, as we've seen over the last month, not in this particular case. And I agree. And if I were a journalist and Adrian Wojnarowski was my friend and he made a mistake, I would certainly be supportive of him.

But I don't think I would be supportive publicly with free Woge. If I were supportive publicly, I would say Adrian Wozrenowski is my friend. He's an excellent reporter. He made a mistake. I forgive him. Yeah, absolutely. No, this is a move you can't do. One other thing that...

You can't do this. One other thing that happened while we were away. This is the Sean Jackson thing. Here's my only comment, because on some level, I actually am not sure what he even knows about history or Hitler or Nazi Germany, 1930s, or the Holocaust or anything else. but I really don't understand why there wasn't a bigger public backlash. Actually, I agree. Actually, I do. I agree.

I do believe. I understand why. I watched Drew Breeze, who by the way, I said, and this was my position, I thought Drew Breeze made a mistake. I thought he was borderline disingenuous to suggest that Colin Kaepernick and others were kneeling in 2017 because they disrespected the flag in the country. That's not true. He misrepresented what Kaepernick was kneeling for.

And I think it was really in Breese's case, he was worthy of all that criticism because he had a front row seat for it and should have known. So he pays a dear price for this. I mean, he is front and center on CNN and MSNBC for a week straight. Deshaun Jackson, Instagrams out, pure anti-Semite hate. Unbelievable.

And it's barely, it's barely even discussed in those same media circles. And the Eagles should be ashamed of themselves for the way they, I mean, to me, if that was a person that represented my organization, they'd be gone. Just like that. That is, that is a got to be gone situation. Okay, that's unacceptable. and he had teammates support him. Melley Jackson. Well, Stephen Jackson outside the sport,

and Malcolm Jenkins, even his statement was a little bit off-putting. Shannon Sharp as well. What did Shannon Sharp say? I don't remember specifically. I have to look it up, but he came to, you know, the bigger, a bigger problem here is this is all connected back to Louis Farrakhan. the Muslim leader

in America here and who has been you know very anti-Semitic in his comments and stuff how much influence does Louis Farrakhan have in the NFL

I don't know how many players I mean look I know this is a big you know a big third rail but some of the response that Deshaun Jackson got that supported him would indicate to me that there are people around the NFL who think the same way he does. I think that that's a possibility.

I also think it's very possible that there's a ton of ignorance when it comes to that area of history. You know, because clearly Deshaun Jackson, look, I'm not going to go. go down that path. I don't want somebody completely canceled for one mistake. This was a big mistake, though. This is really... This is, well, a mistake from this standpoint. It wouldn't shock me if this dude is totally clueless as to what went on in the 1930s and 40s in Germany. You know, I don't think he is a World War II historian by any stretch of the imagination, Tommy. But that goes for a lot of people white, black, and magenta over the last several weeks. But the way this was covered, it was an abomination from my standpoint.

Now, I did read a fabulous column written by Mitch Album. Is it the Detroit Free Press, Tommy? What is the newspaper? Yes. Yeah, it was a very good column. Very good column on this. And to me, it's a must read for anybody that really doesn't have an understanding of the persecution of Jewish people around the world for centuries upon centuries and certainly more recently.

But I just, I was, I don't know if I expected him to be cut or released, but I thought it should have been more than a fine. But beyond that, it was just the reaction to it was so tepid, right? I agree. Absolutely. Compared to Drew Brees? Are you kidding me? It was ridiculous. It was embarrassing.

I think people were embarrassed about it and didn't want to respond as a result. Jason Peters resigned with the Eagles. We'll leave you with that. So he's not going to become a Redskin. We'll really break down on Thursday, Tommy, I think. If the left tackle for the Redskins in 2020 is on the roster or off it, I think that would be a really good conversation to have. All right, what else you got? Anything?

That's all I got, boss. All right. When's your next needle pinch? Oh, not for another five. Not for another five weeks. Oh, good. That's a long time from now. We'll be into the NFL season by then. Yeah, we will. There's so much going on on the pandemic front that's really interesting. I'm starting to believe that college football is not going to happen.

I would lean in that direction, but I do believe the NFL is going to give it the old college try. Do you like what I did with that? Oh, I think they will try. Yes, I did. I like that. I think they will. I think they will. I think they will.

Look, up here in Frederick County, it's been a week since there's been a death related to the coronavirus. And it's very well controlled right here where we are right now. And I think the district I just read, it's been about four or five days since they had a debt related to the virus. I read something about blood type and sickness with COVID-19. Did you read that? Or am I thinking that certain blood types are much more likely to be infected and hospitalized versus other blood types? I had read some vaguely remember that, which I remember having a conversation, which is, this is embarrassing. Do you know your blood type?

I think I am O positive? I don't know what mine is. I think that's what I am. I don't know. I can't. That's embarrassing. I don't know what my blood type is. Why is that embarrassing?

I bet you more. I mean, it seems it should be important to know. It probably is important, but I would bet you that most people don't know. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't know for sure. I think I'm O positive. But I'm not entirely sure either. I think there was a time in my life that I knew,

but I think I've forgotten because I forget everything now. That may be part of the forgetting everything could be related to my blood type. Yes, it could. All right, what else? We're done for the day. We'll be back together on Thursday.