The Kevin Sheehan Show - Nats-LA Game 5 and Delusional Redskins

Episode Date: October 9, 2019

Kevin opened with Nats-Dodgers and the Bruce Allen/Bill Callahan Monday pressers. Ben Standig/The Athletic joined the show to talk Skins and Mark Zuckerman/MASN was a guest on the show from Los Angeles to preview Nats-Dodgers. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here and Aaron is here. Sorry about yesterday. Had a personal family issue I had to deal with. It came up unexpectedly. But we're back today. Tommy will be with us tomorrow, I think. He is on his way to L.A. right now. I did not follow this, but I was told that Tommy was in a Twitter war, with Nat's fans about the crowd on Monday night. The fact that it wasn't a sellout. War might be a little bit extreme, but yes, he did have some rather testy back and forth. He gets very sensitive to any sort of criticism or just typically gets very sensitive to just incompetence on Twitter.

And he engages those people much more often than I do, but he's great at doing it. By the way, I don't even know what he said. I will tell you this. He was just saying that basically there were decent empty sections. There were. Yes. Yeah, there were.

But I'm typically the first to jump on the fact that, you know, yeah, we're a baseball town. It's game four in the series against the Dodgers and they didn't even sell out the game, which they did not. I think there were 5,000 short of a sellout. But here's the thing. And I predicted it, I think on the podcast or the radio show on Monday. I forget which. You have a 640 start. time, you're not going to have people in their seats in this city for the first part of that game.

And you're going to have a lot of people that bail that just say, I don't want to miss any of this game. And if I try to go to the game, I'm going to miss it because of the traffic. You know, you just cannot have 6 o'clock, 630, 640 starts, you know, in college park or at Capital One, or at Nats Park, or at FedEx Field. You can't do it. You just can't do it. You're going to end end up with far fewer attending than you would if you put it at a time in which people, oh, by the way, aren't still working or they're not going to have to deal with significant rush hour traffic. Anyway, I wasn't as bent out of shape at that. I sort of thought it was a possibility. Remember Aaron when Maryland played, I mean, you and I've jumped on the 630, you know,

FS1 starts for Maryland basketball games and just, I've told Mark this several times, Turgeon. You've got to make, you've got to get these games, these 630 starts, played in places like Bloomington, Indiana, or West Lafayette, Indiana, or, you know, Madison, Wisconsin, you can't, Champaign Urbana. You can't have these games in the nation's capital. We have a real city with a real traffic, with a real rush hour situation. And, you know, they got some better start times to their basketball schedule. Yes, they did. All right, tonight. Tonight is one of those moments I love as a sports fan, but obviously when one of my teams is involved, it just raises it to a new level. There really is nothing, you know, quite as dramatic as a deciding game in a series or, you know, in the NFL, a postseason game, winner go home. Anytime you have these games in which the winner advances and the loser's season comes to an end, it is, you know, high, you know, high. drama and the baseball playoffs always provide this, you know, and it's a different type of drama. There's this tension, this pressure in these games where it plays out with 30 to 45 seconds in between each pitch where, you know, there's so much tension building and one pitch can, you know, what happens on that pitch, whether it's hit or whether they swing and miss on a two-two-count or a

three two count can totally change, you know, the outcome of the game. It's just so good in sports, the postseason in baseball. And tonight we'll have, the Nats have already played in a couple of dramatic games. The wild card game was dramatic. You had that tension in the eighth inning and the comeback. You had it on Friday night, you know, when you had the bases jacked, you know, at the end against Hudson in a four-two game. That sixth inning the other night on Sunday, night was pretty dramatic. Look, you got game of inches, you got that foul ball. Wow.

By the way, just real quickly, because you brought it up. And I didn't have a chance to do a show yesterday. The Monday night game was one of those games. It's like Scherzer was very close to being in there one bad or two longer. Peterson's bloop down the right field line missed being fair by an inch. It would have cleared the bases. And sure everything about the game, would have changed. The Max Scherzer performance would have changed in terms of what you thought of it.

The final score may have been different. They may have been eliminated. And yet it went foul. And then the next pitch he got him to ground out. And it was inning over. Bases were loaded for two different batters. They got out of that. I really thought in that moment Davy might come with the lefty against Peterson. Might come with Doolittle against Peterson in that spot. He didn't. I think that was anybody but Scherzer. Yeah, or Strasbourg, if Strasbourg had been going well. Here's the thing, though. Strasbourg doesn't have that, you know, don't you dare take me out personality. I think that's a fair point, and Scherer had that and said, no way, I'm handling this. And he almost didn't.

Right. He almost didn't. But that's going to be one of those moments. If they do happen to win tonight, that's going to be, you know, in past years, that ball stays fair. They get eliminated. This is the year because of that. I did on the radio show earlier, and I'll save it. but I'll just give you a teaser that one of my keys to them winning tonight

is that they get a break like that. Like they got the other night, like they got in game in the wild card eighth inning against Milwaukee where they had a broken bat bloop single by Ryan Zimmerman where Michael A. Taylor reached base on what was a hit by pitch, but if it had been called a foul ball before, replay wouldn't have overturned it. And then you get an error in right field on the Soto hit that clears the bases.

Like, you know, they may, they seem to be getting those breaks to go, their way, hopefully it'll continue tonight. But I cannot wait for the game tonight. I love sports drama, and this is high drama, and it's at an iconic venue, you know, at Dodger Stadium. They are the favorites tonight, and by the way, they've been growing as a favorite today. I've got them at minus 165 now earlier this morning. I saw them as low as minus 150. So there's some action right now on the Dodgers as we approach tonight. I can't wait for tonight, though.

This is where sports is awesome, a seventh and deciding game. By the way, when you said they, you mean the Dodgers. Yeah, I just wanted to clarify that. Yeah, if I said the opposite, I didn't mean that. But anyway, it should be great. And I'll give you a quick Nats beat Dodgers if and give you a prediction with a footnote

a little bit later on in the show. By the way, Mark Zuckerman is going to join us from Los Angeles shortly. So I didn't have a chance to weigh in on those gems of press conferences on Monday. And I'm going to do that today because it was predictable the Bruce thing. I mean, did anybody see, you know, an apology or a taking of accountability or accepting responsibility kind of a press conference from him? though. No one was going to, we weren't going to see that. It is really amazing to me. It seems the more that he fails, the more sort of power he seems to gain. He has some sort of an ability to flim-flam

the owner over and over again. It's mind-boggling as to how he's able to pull it off, because he's able to convince the owner that it's not them. And that was, really what we heard on Monday. Let's go through a couple of the sound bites that I wanted to comment on. The first one was the one that I think t-shirts are now being made over. It's when Bruce said the following. You know, the culture is actually damn good. These people care. We have a very young core players that we have brought in here who are accustomed to winning. If you look at the record of these guys, they're accustomed to winning. They want to win. And free agency, we brought Landon Collins.

Great leader, great player, wants to win. We haven't put it together. We've made too many mistakes on game day. But the effort, the effort of the players and the rest of this organization is fantastic. Doug Williams,

his hours, if you want to check his time card, working all the time. Our scouts on the road working all the time. And they're trying to find the right formula for success. These players have the ability and we just have to execute. How does that culture translate then to winning football? Through winning football games.

We have to win. We didn't win any of these games. Yeah. So there it is. You know, the culture is damn good. This guy's producing more sound drops for radio talk show host than Vinnie Serato did, which is really hard, really hard to do. But, you know, we've got the winning off the field, we've got the work close, we've got all of these things.

And, of course, now the new one, and I think T-shirts are being made with the culture is damn good, Bruce Allen. I want to play a couple of more quotes and then give you my overall sort of summation, if you will, of the Bruce Allen press conference. Here he was being asked by Michael Phillips, I believe, from the Richmond Times Dispatch about where, you know, Dan Snyder is and why he isn't addressing the media and the fans, you know, through the media. Why is Dan Snyder not addressing the fans today? Because I am. Will there be an opportunity to talk to Dan about the franchise that he owns at some point? Yeah, Dan, Dan's makes himself available from time to time.

No, he doesn't. He does not make himself available from time to time. He's lying to you and lying to Michael and everybody else. And I want to just mention this real quickly, and then I want to play a little bit more of that particular section of the press conference. You know, Bruce, Dan, excuse me, has obviously become very reclusive publicly. And there may be good reasons for that. And I don't need to hear from Dan Snyder if he's not comfortable in addressing the media or addressing the fans. I don't.

I don't think he'd be the first owner to be a recluse, to be very shy, very uncomfortable in addressing the fans. the media, which I think he is. I think he's gotten to the point where he is very uncomfortable doing that. I think there's truth in that. And so if he is and he's angst ridden over it, I'm not going to, you know, be the guy that says, well, you have to speak. It doesn't matter how you feel. No, he doesn't have to speak. But also remember this. The reason Bruce still exists, he told you, because I am, I'm talking, is because he's taking a lot of the arrows. for Dan, or at least Dan feels that Bruce is taking a lot of the arrows for him. He thinks Bruce has become public enemy number one, and he's fine with that.

You know, at least they hate him, hashtag fire Bruce Allen, much more than they hate me. The problem with that is that's also sort of from the world of fantasy land that they live in, because nobody despises Dan Snyder any less because we haven't heard from him. And I also don't believe that we despise him more because we haven't heard from him. He's the owner of this rotting franchise. That's why we despise him professionally. I don't know him personally. I'm not about to personally attack him.

Professionally, he's among the worst owners in sports, presiding as an owner over one of the worst franchises in sports. I've loved over the years when some of you have disagreed with me on that and said you're speaking in hyperboats. I'm like, they're not the worst, but I've said in recent years, they're certainly in the bottom 10% of franchises in sports, bottom, you know, worst case, bottom quarter. You could make an argument. Like, saying that they're the worst franchise in sports, you could make that argument. Of course you could make that argument. But even if you say that, you know, the Knicks are worse or, you know, the Marlins are worse,

you know, you're talking about only a handful of others that you could really debate. It's not like you're debating them against, you know, 25 other sports franchises and talking about whether or not they're in the bottom five or the bottom 20. They're definitely in the bottom 20. It's just whether or not you get them down to the bottom three or four. Anyway, so there's one more soundbite I want you to play. I want you to play the next question and the next answer about Callahan. Rhianne and Walker of the Athletic D.C. Bruce, at the end of your tenure at the Oakland Raiders, you had three straight

playoff appearances, one including Super Bowl with Bill Gallowham. In Tampa Bay, two of your last three years, they were in the playoffs. What is the plan here for D.C.? How can you replicate the success that you had in Tampa Bay in Oakland and bring that to D.C. Exactly. Well, you know, Bill, as I said, a season, he has a track record as a head coach. He is already implementing a plan. for this team and schedules are going to change and things of that nature.

It is 0-1-5. We have 11 regular season games left, and we still can accomplish many of our goals. There's no one in this locker room is going to quit. No one in this organization who's going to shy away from some extra work. We'll be confident in the work product, and hopefully we can execute better on game day. all of the sound bites that I played for you all add up to this um it was very transparent very obvious to me right from the jump in that press conference the other day that what he was attempting to do i mean he was attempting to once again you know pull the wool over everybody's eyes as he has i think to a certain degree with the owner with dan schneider um saying Doug and Kyle have done a great job with the draft you know their bill is implementing new plan with new schedules by the way check Doug's time card out. He's here all the time. Time card. Seriously? I mean, he's so stuck in the 70s. It's incredible to me. But anyway, it is a mirror into the minds of Bruce and Dan. It's never their fault.

This time it's Jay's fault. Last time it was Scott McLuhan's fault. The time before that, it was Mike Shanahan's fault. The culture is damn good. You know, we've done a great job with the draft. And now Bill, you know, who's got some experience, and I've got some experience with him, you know, winning games in different places. He's going to come up with a much better plan than Jay had with a new plan and implementing new schedules. And, you know, we still have our goals to accomplish. They're still ahead of us at 0 and 5. What goals are left? I guess they could win 10 or 11 straight games and get to the postseason and get to the Super Bowl.

That could happen. They're 10,000 to 1, the last pick to win the Super Bowl now. I think Miami's got, you know, similar. odds. I'm sorry, to win the NFC championship, their Super Bowl odds are greater. But the lack of self-awareness in this organization is higher than any other organization I've ever seen.

Scott did this thing the other night on the Redskins on his show, and he said, and obviously he and I have had a lot of conversations about this, and he said on the show, Bruce Allen couldn't lack more self-awareness if he walked out on that podium nude. like he really the the level of fantasy land that these guys are in

he also at one point referenced last year I think it was David Aldridge who asked him about you know sort of a question that related to being close and never really being close and he said I disagree with that premise you know last year you know a year ago we were six and three and then we had a lot of injuries he's been selling that story to Dan for a year now

I mean they really did They missed the big picture about that six and three last year. They weren't going anywhere. Could they have made the playoffs at 9 and 7? Yes. Were they going to beat anybody in the postseason? Absolutely not. That team was not a very good team last year.

It was a team that hit that inside straight that I've referred to many times. You know, that first half of the season, they were healthy, they were winning the turnover battle, they were doing some things good against some poor teams. The good teams, they played pretty much random. out of the building, but they didn't have those good teams on the schedule very much. Everything broke their way, and then a leg broke. And by the way, if you ask football people in the organization last year, they didn't think

they were going to drop off at all offensively with Colt McCoy. Look, I've said this a million times, and it bears repeating. The worst combination in a person or in a business is incompetence and arrogance. and competence leads people and organizations to make mistake after mistake after mistake. But the arrogance that goes with it never allows for that person or that business to consider that they're the ones making the mistakes. It's always somebody else's fault. And therefore, hey, we can fix it by getting rid of Jay.

Hey, we can fix it by getting rid of Mike. Mike and all of his future head coaches on his staff, hey, we can get rid of this problem by getting rid of Scott McLuhan. By the way, when he talks about drafts, their drafts are very, very much up in the air here in recent years. And more likely than not are going to turn out to be C's, maybe C pluses, B minuses. They're not killing it in the draft.

Doug and Kyle aren't killing it in the draft. And part of that may be because Doug and Kyle or Kyle and scouting staff aren't. aren't able to draft everybody they want to draft. All right, let's get to the Bill Callahan portion of Monday's press conference parade day. And I want you to hear some of the things. I know you've heard some of these things over the last couple of days. I just didn't have a chance yesterday to weigh in on it.

But this was Bill Callahan in his first Monday press conference being sort of introduced as the interim head coach, talking about philosophy. And obviously, many of the questions started with Dwayne Havis. and when Dwayne was going to play. Bill, I think the best place to start is quarterback. You've already, three of them have already played through five games. What do you think happens for Miami? Are you ready to name a starter?

No, I'm not. And we're still evaluating some medical things with Case. We want to see where he's at. Still contemplating whether or not to start Case or Colt. And we're in the midst of those discussions right now. So I think a lot of it will have to do with Miami and D.E. defense and what they present and what gives us our best options. Is is Dwayne a contender for that job?

Not right now, but he will be at some point in time. You know, we're going to continue to develop him and heighten his maturation process and try to get him on schedule so that he is prepared. So there's always a possibility, you know, possibility he could be active or deactive. So we'll see as we move along. What are you looking for in Dwayne to know that it's eventually time to let him go ahead and learn on the job? I think it's time now for him to be prepared because anything can happen.

And I think as a quarterback, you're always ready to step in and step up. It occurred in the giant game. And it can occur again, you know, based on the decisions we make as a staff. So, you know, his progress is incremental and starting to show signs and flashes, you know, progress. But he still has a ways to go. And I'm looking forward to. coaching with him. And I think he's a great kid. He's got a bright future. And he's our franchise

pick. So at some point, at some point, you know, he'll be in the lineup at some point in time, whether it's this year or next year, whatever. Next year, he said, next year. By the way, I've heard the same things about Haskins. He's a good kid. Easy to coach. Awesome. That's great. Next year. All right. First of all, old Bill Callahan, he's a pleasant guy, you know, said a couple of things there. Haskins not ready to start. He's going to, you know, another sort of, I think, subtle, very subtle shot at Jay saying, we're going to get

him some first team reps, you know, moving forward. He also at one point, you know, mentioned a couple things that were interesting. He talked and emphasized that their second halves have to improve because the first halves have been great, but the second halves have to improve.

They've been outscored 78 to 40 in the first half of these games. Um, anyway, um, on Haskins. So, look, my position hasn't changed and it's not going to change. You know, I, I can hear it from beat reporters. I can hear it from ex players. I can hear from, you know, current interim head coaches. To me, when you're O and five and you've drafted a quarterback in the first round, it's time to get him out there and learn something about him, period. You know, and if you can't get him ready to play in the NFL game, then it's your failing as a coach. Because,

it's highly unusual, nearly unprecedented for a first round quarterback on a losing team not to play a significant number of games during his rookie year, especially if there's not a veteran quarterback on that team that's been there forever or is really good or, you know, is going to be around moving forward. This would be unprecedented. for him not to play in this situation on a non-playoff team, a bad team, a bad team. And would be, as I pointed out early in training camp, would be the biggest red flag on Haskins. Now, what's obviously clear is that everybody in the building on the football side isn't seeing

much there. They don't see a guy that's anywhere near ready to play. They see a project. It's one of the reasons I didn't want him drafted in the first round. When I was talking about the draft, before the Redskins ever even thought about having the opportunity to draft Wayne Haskins, I just wasn't a big fan of him at the next level. I thought, yeah, you take a second rounder, a third rounder on him. Cooley had the evaluation too. I'll never forget the day that we started thinking about the draft, and I said, you got to watch some tape on Haskins because he's being talked about as an upper first half round guy.

I just saw him play a lot. I don't think he's going to be a great pro. whatever. I could be wrong. I want to be wrong. I saw some things in the preseason that I actually liked. I saw a guy that wasn't fearful of the moment, a guy that's competitive, a guy that we'll be able to figure it out. If you can't get this dude out here for eight games minimum, major red flag. If you can't get him out there against Miami, it's a failing on the coaching staff. It's a failing on the coaching staff of the highest order. unless, unless they were to say he doesn't want to play. He doesn't think he's ready.

He has no confidence. He's fearful of getting out there and playing right now until he's more comfortable with the system. I just would give him a system that he's comfortable with. I'd give him the confidence. I'd talk about him in a way in which it inspired him a little bit more. Instead of saying this year or next year, You know, why can't they give him something?

15 plays that get him comfortable. Cooley was on with us last week saying, let him throw hot. Don't force him to read defenses. Don't force him to pick out Mike linebackers. Don't force him to set protections. Do you know how many young quarterbacks, first round quarterbacks,

have gone out there on bad teams with bad offensive lines and little talent, but they learn something from them? There's also the part of, don't we all know the, you know, hey, he doesn't practice. Well, he doesn't look that great in practice, but he's a gamer. How do we know he's not a gamer? I just don't get any of this. I don't. Unless he's telling them, I don't want to play yet. And he doesn't strike me as that dude. Anyway, that's disappointing. And as we get a few games, I mean, a couple of games from now, if they're one and six, one and seven, one and eight,

and he's still not out there if he's not major red flag. Now, maybe these reps, these first team reps are going to give him more confidence. Maybe these first team reps are going to be with a much smaller package. And maybe Callahan's plan is to really simplify it, get him out there, get him a simplified package, get him some reps, and then he's going to play him against San Francisco next week, or the following week, which is what, Minnesota on a Thursday night, on a short week? Can't do that, right? I don't think you can do that on a short week.

Probably not. Is it Minnesota after San Francisco? Yes, it is on a Thursday night, the 24th. And then it's Buffalo, with, by the way, many days to prepare for that at Buffalo. By the way, against arguably a top three, top five defensive team in the league, maybe a better defensive team than even New England? I don't get any of this. But I also think that maybe what we're learning here is he's not an NFL quarterback.

I don't want to say that. I don't know that. I don't know how they would know. that. I don't know how they would know that without putting him out there on the field. I want to see that. Clearly, if Callahan's telling you maybe not until next year, there's nobody in that organization that's going to hire a coach that tells you that they're not a Haskins fan, A, and B, is even thinking remotely about the possibility if they were to have the top pick in the draft of the second pick in the draft of using it on a quarterback. By the way, if they have the first or second pick in the draft, which is probably an even money shot at this. point. And they end up drafting Chase Young out of Ohio State. That's going to be a damn good pick too. He probably is more can't miss than any of the quarterbacks. By the way, you could also use that top two, top three pick with all those quarterbacks Aaron at the top of the draft that are supposed to be there as ransom. Yep. You know, you could get a haul from a team for that pick. So

they're going to have a lot of options there. I'd love for them to be able to go into the offseason, a sense of what Dwayne Haskins is. I really would. By the way, one quick note, you know, I've seen some more recent odds, Aaron on Redskin coaches for 2020. Bowles is way up the list now. He's like three to one, you know, behind guys like Bianamy and Leftwich, you know, right there. So he wasn't on that list that we looked at last week. And I said, he's going to end up being on that list when they finally fire Gruden. And he's way up the list. By the way, did you hear Mike Tomlin yesterday asked about the Redskin coaching position? We don't have that sound, do we?

No, we don't have the sound. Had it on the radio show, but we don't have to worry about it today. Just look it up. Tomlin was, you know, he's like, I've got a job. I'm the Pittsburgh Steelers coach. By the way, I was thinking about it. If he does get fired, I don't know that there would be a huge market for Mike Tomlin. I don't know if there would be a huge market initially, but I feel like if I'm him,

I go to TV for a year and wait for a better job to open. Like that's the thing. Someone will come to him eventually and the job will be better than the Redskins. Yeah. I mean, I did this on the radio show today, but I'll net it out for you. The Redskins job opening is not a good one in sports. It's not, you know, a desired one. We're not talking about Kentucky or Carolina in basketball or Notre Dame or SC in football,

you know, USC and football. We're not talking about the cowboy job. We're not talking about the giant job. the next time that comes available. You know, this is, you're not going to be, you know, you're not going to have many choices. You're going to get the guys that, you know, didn't get the other jobs.

You're not getting Lincoln Riley or Urban Meyer people. Please, Lincoln Riley had the following quote, which I'm going to read. It was in USA Today, I think, yesterday. Actually, I read it in USA Today, but it was from Benjamin and Albright from the NFL Network. I think NFL Network. Skins fans may be,

may be wanting Lincoln Riley, but source tells me that job would not be a consideration for him if he were to even have eyes for the league, meaning the NFL. It's why Eric B. Enemies also probably not going to be on the realistic list. Right. You're going to have to be on, your list is going to have to be the settle for list when all is said and done. All right, quick word about my bookie.ag. All right, guys, if you're looking for a place to bet, take my advice, go to my bookie.ag. Fastest payouts, solid lines, all the betting options you want, straight bets, parles, teasers, in-game action, et cetera. You got all that as an opportunity at mybooky.orgie. It's important where you choose to play. Trust me on this. Mybooky.orgie.orgie.orgie

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covers the team. Ben's a good friend of the show and of a lot of shows in town. It's always good to catch up with Ben. He writes for the athletic. Subscribe to the athletic. They're doing a great job covering the team. And I was going to, you know, essentially go down the path here of, you know, repeat of a lot of the things that have been talked about here over the last 48, you know, 48 hours or so. And we can circle back to some of that stuff. But the athletic has a story out right now, just talking about the laid-back culture under Jay Gruden versus what maybe it will change to under Bill Callahan. Your thoughts on that? You know, what's funny is that, you know, you talk about things being, you know,

sort of repeated over and over again, and that's happening a lot in the last few days. That's happening in part because the national media is now descending on this team and picking, you know, picking at the bones for sure. But like, this isn't, like, the idea of there being sort of somewhat lacked practices under Jay. Is this new? No. The term club J has been out there for some time when it came to training camps every, for several years now when we've talked about why do the Redskins get off the slow starts, it comes back

to where are they practicing hard enough? I have not covered another NFL team before, and when I first went out to Richmond to cover this team, and I'm like, okay, training camp, here we go. I better personally get in ready for the Oklahoma drill. They may throw me in there, who knows, and then I get to it, and I'm like, oh, this doesn't seem as intense as I thought it was going to be. And maybe that's the modern error, or maybe it's a gruden, but either way, like, this is a thing that has been out there. But it's fucked with a lot of things right now. So much is getting hyper-focused because the end occurred.

And, again, Gruden's out, and everybody's now trying to figure out what happened. I would encourage people, don't let the national media sort of, like, throw you down certain paths. We already knew these things. They're not telling us much that's revelatory here. Sure, the players have often hinted at or suggested or even said directly to some of us on the side. These practices, yeah, maybe we need to go harder. I mean, DJ Squaringer flat out said it. multiple times in public. So in it of itself, I don't think this is that surprising. I think

what is it, what is interesting, though, is just the fact that, okay, is that the reason why things have been, have been south? And I would also caution with this, every time somebody comes up with an idea of what went wrong, and I just wrote an article about here's the five things that went wrong in the Gruden era, it always comes back to the one reality. It's the same owner for 20 years. And no matter what we want to talk about, whether Gruden didn't practice hard enough or Bruce Allen, this or anything. There's only one constant and we just get distracted by that because we're trying to have a new conversation and not be the dead horse over and over again. So sure, we'll talk about the practices now. It's important that you need to clearly figure something

out. Bill Callahan seems to think they need to go harder. My colleague Reanne and Walker wrote about that, read that. It's a good article. But ultimately, this thing is all going to come back to the same thing. Will ownership ever change? Will the mindset of this organization ever change? So something can take hold positively going forward. You know, I'm going to come back to some of the things that you just said, but I'm going to go to the whole national media thing because it's frustrated me over the years too, and I could tell there was a tinge of frustration from your end as well. And I want to make this point that, you know, if I on a local talk show, you know,

try to be incredibly definitive with an opinion about a team that isn't in the market, I recognize going into that that there's a lot. lot that I'm probably missing. You know, and perhaps somebody listening, if I, if I had a strong opinion about the Eagles, there's somebody in Philadelphia that would say, yeah, except that this has actually already happened and this is the way they handled it, so you sort of missed that and you miss that, whatever. It's the same with us.

We are following as fans and as media members, this team in every granular detail associated with this team on a daily basis. It's a totally different view when you are in it and you've got all the information versus national guys or somebody from another market that doesn't have all the information and doesn't have tone and context and the whole thing. And I will just tell you that and most of you know this, that over the years, when you get stuff from national media, it's either what Ben said. It's like, well, no shit. We've known that for years. And they're making it into, oh, my God, you know, Max Kellerman today or Stephen A. or Adam Schaefter. Now, there's breaking news. And by the way, a lot of the breaking news stuff

over the years has actually been outside the market because the leaks inside of Ashburn never get leaked locally. They always leak stuff to national guys, you know, whether it's, you know, Albert Breer or Ian Rappaport or whomever, whatever. But your point's an interesting one because just last week, the whole national narrative about how Dwayne Haskins was ruined by Jay Gruden because he put him into a game as the backup quarterback, by the way, they said over and over again, with no reps, which was not true, because he did have some reps leading up to the giant game. Not a lot, but a couple. Anyway, it just drove me nuts. It's like, well, first of all, don't you know your NFL history? This is how quarterbacks usually end up playing

for their first NFL action is off the bench for a veteran that's struggling. that's how it usually happens. But anyway, I digress. But to your point on Haskins, go back and read what people wrote pre-draft before we knew he would be on the Redskins. Often people said things to the effect of, hey, he's got a lot of interesting talent,

strong arm, all that, but he only started one year. It likely will take him a little time to come in and play. That's not crazy. So when we've discussed Jake Gruden saying, yeah, he's not ready. People sometimes are going, Oh, okay, Grudson is like sabotaging this kid by saying he's not ready.

No, he's reading the reality. And this also reminds me from the national media perspective, and I'm sure you want to get off of this. But go back to 2015 when many of us were screaming that Kirk Cousins needed to be the starter. And then when they did it, the national media, you know, crap on the Redskins, said that we were morons, that of course Kirk Cousins stinks and RG3 was definitely the better guy. And we're all like, dude, you haven't been watching at all. you're just going off with 2012 highlights.

He's not good anymore, and the other guy is better. Obviously, we were proven right, but like you said, everybody parachutes in. And by the way, this is important to remember when you're watching any of the news and any of these people are giving highlights about other teams that aren't your team, assume the same thing. Assume that you recognize that they don't have the full details on the redskins. They therefore don't, as Kevin was saying, on the Chargers, the Lakers, the Yankees, whatever.

It doesn't mean they can't be right. It doesn't mean they don't have the insight. It just means tread lightly with definitive statements because they clearly will not have all the facts. I don't think anything was more contentious between local media and national media than the 2015 thing, because not only did national media basically accuse Washington media of being dumb, but they also accused many Washington media members of being racist, and it was over the top, that they preferred cousins over RG3, because it was a black-white thing, which I got into it.

I remember on Twitter with, oh, Christ. Bumani Jones. I don't know if you remember this. I got into with him on Twitter, and he was over the top, you know, race-baiting, essentially, in saying the red-skinned media base is racist. They're pushing this cousin's narrative. Cousin sucks. He can't play because somehow they're off-put by Griffin.

No, no, no. A, he was dead wrong. I mean, Griffin had just, we had just gone through a second coaching staff that had said, not only can't he play, he is really a problem to coach. But the bigger issue was, and I remember saying this, you know, in 1987 and 88, this city, media-wise, fan-wise, begged for Doug Williams to be the starter. and for Jay Schrader to be benched. And by the way, that was a different time.

And this city has never, when it's come to its football team or sports teams, with the exception of an owner of the team in the 40s, 50s, and then 60s when this team was a segregated outfit. But post, you know, Jack Kent Cook owning the team, and this team being beloved by the city, not as much anymore, obviously. You're talking about a city that is never cared, ever cared, media-based that's ever cared

about whether or not the quarterback or the coach or anybody else was black, white, purple, or yellow. It just never mattered. Nothing illustrated that more than at a time where there was sensitivity to African-Americans being quarterbacks in a lot of cities. And in this particular city, Doug Williams was the favorite from everybody, play Doug, he's better, we want him, we hate Schrader. And then to bring that up in 2015 in the way that not only Bumani Jones did, others did, was just outrageous. Outrageous, not to mention they totally missed the point, which was Griffin sucked and the other guy was better,

which was at the end of the day what the media saw and what fans saw. Not all the fans. Remember, the RG3 thing was a polarizing thing in 2015 among fans. Yeah, absolutely. There was a meme that went out the other day of somebody, some woman was like crying hysterically looking at her like television and like somebody put up, you know, captioned this or like what is she watching and I tweeted RG3 on the ground in the 20 to 13 playoffs against Seattle and like tons of people responded because they all felt that way about that kid. Yeah, but like, you know, and so with all that said, obviously none of this has anything to do to some degree with how to fix the redskins, which is ultimately. sort of the larger, the larger point. And that's, and that's obviously the challenge. But to the, I guess to the point of the hysterics of the last 48 hours, the coach getting fired, especially week five, or after week five, is a big deal, obviously.

It should be discussed in analyze and contemplated, why, and all that. But I wasn't going, I don't think any of us were going, wow, this is a stunner. It seemed like things were headed this way for a bit, both in terms of work, things were with Gruden, not just O and five, but just sort of his vibe, his attitude, his six-year, all that stuff. But, you know, this is just how things go in these parts. But, you know, the national, I guess the thing that's just sort of frustrating is the national media just comes in and just, you know, they come in. They have no connection to anything here. They're not, they don't have to show up at the press conference the next day.

They don't have to come into the locker room. They can just, like, Molotov cocktail, their thoughts, their takes, and then leave. and the rest of us are left here. But I don't think most of us were going, oh, my God, what in the bottom? You know, this is crazy. No, we're all like, yeah, okay, we get it. This is going to happen. The question is, now what?

And I don't think now what is the problem, why I'm not really getting upset. And I don't think many of my colleagues have either because we kind of get it. Like, until ownership changes, I don't mean necessarily a new one, or I just mean, you know, approach. Then it's hard to see how things fix. I mean, I think your guy, Scott Van Pelt, said it perfectly the other day. I mean, you know, you could say whatever you want about fixing the culture, you know, what to suggest that's going to happen, which is why I don't get, you know, that route up with all this stuff. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah. So let's, before we go forward, I want to just go back to Monday. You were there. The Bruce Press conference, what was it like being there and listening to this Butte up there, you know, with his deluxe. you know, insulting of intelligence, arrogance. Were you guys looking at each other as he, when he dropped the, we've got a damn good culture line and some of the others? So I was sitting in the literal front row in the literal seat directly in front of the podium.

So just from a, you know, respect, say, standpoint to whoever the person is speaking to you, I couldn't do the side eye to anybody, even if I wanted to. And everybody was, you know, we were all like looking around for the microphone. and everybody wanted their turn, their shot to ask a question and all that stuff. Man, yeah, you know, I've never covered, like, the White House, but this was, like, it didn't feel like I was in the White House press corps when the press secretary is just saying, telling you stuff, you're like, oh, come on, really?

You know, look, I, you know, I've covered a lot of teams in this town and, and therefore, around, you know, some of these coaches and GMs and owners and whatever. And, you know, I get it. Like, they're not going to come out and just tell you, all their deep darkest thoughts. They're not going to be the most honest with you at all times. We all have to, we all should get that, understand that. We wouldn't do it either if we were in that spot standing up there.

But that said, like to not have, to be that far removed from reality, at least in that sense. If he wants to say that they're not that close, that they're not that far off, I mean, like that seems insane at 0 and 5. But if you genuinely believe that Dwayne Haskins is going to be the guide, that Montez Sweat and Jonathan Allen and Duran Payne and Terry McCorn and, you know, Like, if you generally think that all these guys can be pro-ball players, okay, you know, who knows? I'm not saying that's logical, but the NFL turnarounds happen quickly. But the other part of it, from a culture perspective, again, I'm not in the building,

and so it's a little hard to comment on some of these things. But, again, it's 20 years. We see this over and over again. We hear people talk. You know, we see what we see. I mean, it's just hard to accept that they, not that he said it even, but that they think it. And I think that's the part that's just so tricky that, you know, man, are you you're just telling us this because you want to put out a positive message or do you believe it?

And, you know, because he's, in his case in particular, Bruce Allen's case, it's such a got that politician vibe, it's just hard to ever believe that what he's telling us is what he is, you know, is, it's some sense of reality. I guess I assume he thinks this because I don't have any other, I don't have other baseline for him. And that's the part that's so scary how one could think that after all that's gone on here for all the years. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, on one hand, it comes off as a total flimflam. You know, it comes off as a total used car sales pitch. And you also then, by extension, say, well, this is probably the same pitch he's using on

the owner to stay employed, and this is why he's still here. On the other hand, and I remember saying this last January when I said it's time for a reboot, but I said it probably won't happen, is that I do think, you know, you know, remember, some of this, believe it or not, is geography related, and I'll explain it. You know, when you're way out in Loudoun County, you know, a lot of people that live way out in Loudoun County, I know they think they're part of the D.C. metro area, and they are, but you're really far removed from the super densely populated areas of in-close Washington, and even moderately outside the Beltway, Washington. I've always felt that there's an isolation thing, with them. You know, Cooley obviously has become one of my really good friends over the years,

and he lives way out there. I mean, even beyond Redskins Park, and I've always said to him, I'm like, you don't live in D.C. You live in West Virginia for all intents and purposes. And I think that there is this, you know, one Loudon, Ashburn thing that is just far removed from reality. I think they get a lot of the same stuff when they go on the road. You know, road fans, road Redskine fans, tend to be, you know, less critical, less hurt, less abused. I've always felt like, and I talked about this on radio this morning, that when you move from D.C. to a new city, you like to wear that pride. You know, you fly the Redskins flag outside of your house and the Wizards flag and the Nats flag and the Caps flag. Hey, I'm a

Washingtonian, we! And then they come into town, you know, they're playing the Panthers and you're going to go to the game and be all excited and, oh, there's a pep rally the night before. Let's go to the pep rally. You know, those, that's a very small sort of part of the fan base, you know, or it's not necessarily reflective of what the majority fan base thinks, just like this harvest fest or the draft night party. And I do think, Ben, circling back to where I started, there is a bit of a false feeling that they get from some of these events, that they get from being out there and sort of far removed from,

you know, the true DC metro, you know, area with most of the population density. And trust me, I understand how much Loudoun County's grown. I do. I know there's a lot of people, big high school, Stonebridge, et cetera. I'm not, I'm not being critical of it. I'm just saying that that's where they all live. That's where they all work. And I think that sometimes, they do believe that the fan base is just disappointed like they are in the injuries and all of those things rather than disgusted, which is accurate. I don't, I, that is, so I do think there is the chance that they fully don't grasp what, what it is that people think about them. Well, and to like the, so I would even go, go a step further. It isn't just like the back being out of land a, a,

loud is who do you associate with you know you and I have I'm sure both all and off the podcast have had some critical thoughts about Ted Leonis and how he run the Wizards and all that and I'm you know I'm down for that conversation when that when that when that time comes again but if it warranted but that said one thing that the difference between these two owners is that Ted Leonis is he's in the crowd he's in the mix the other day at the w I mean I've never met Dan Snyder one time and I haven't covered this team for decades but I've never, he's never been

available to me since I've been covering the race in any capacity. I've met Ted Leon to several times. I went to the Mystics game two of the WMBA finals next to the media room. They put out a spread of food, some like text mex type stuff or whatever and who's standing there in the

line but just in that vicinity is the owner of the team. Yes, he's talking to the WNBA commissioner so not exactly rank and file people. But he's he's there. He then turns to me, start to, you know, asking me questions about the athletic. He's giving me some grief about some stuff. We're having a human conversation, though, and he's having it with some other people as well. And obviously, you know, I'm sure most people, when they interact with an owner, they look kind of like, oh, this is pretty cool and they say

nice things and all that. But regardless, he's in and he's out and about. I mean, you know, he's there. He's at least getting some pulse of what is happening on the grounds and the people. All we ever seen with Dan Snyder is the sideline and the owner's box. I've never seen him, to my knowledge, be at an event with fans in that way and just sort of be around. Be Dan, not Mr. Snyder. And that is such an important thing because just like with politicians, if you're only listening to your staff who's just going to suck up to you because they want to keep their jobs or get promoted or whatever, you'll hear one side. But when you go back to your constituency, hold town hall meetings, actually listen to what the people you're representing. say, think, that's how you get a sense of what it actually happening.

And I just get the feeling that the Redskins prevents him from that. And Bruce Allen was asked, why are you here and not, why is Dan Snyder not talking to us than you are? And he likes, because I am. Well, that's not like a, I mean, that's not an answer. At some point, Dan Snyder needs to stand up there, not just to give him, give answers, but to listen. And I ask the question I would have is how much is he listening to all the issues of us and the fans and others throughout there? Yeah, I mean, I think I said. earlier in the podcast. I've gotten to the point where I believe, I don't know this for fact,

I think that there's a real hesitance and a real fear is the wrong word. There's a real angst over being a public figure for the owner. And, you know, there are a lot of owners in sports that are not public that don't really spend a lot of time and have the head of their football operation, their team president doing the bulk of the communicating. And he has become very reclusive in years when it comes to public appearances and public speaking. I think the last actual interview he did was with Doc Walker on the station like five years ago. May have been even longer than that now. So I guess I'm not really upset anymore about that.

I hate when they put Doug out there on controversial issues. That should be Bruce, if he's still in the organization, that should be the next team president if there ever is one or GM. I do think what we learned, one of the things we learned from Monday, and I said this earlier, is that Bruce ain't going anywhere. He has as much power now as he's ever had, and the flim flam on Snyder is working if it is a flim flam, or again, maybe he just really does believe this, and he's completely delusional and removed from what the reality is. But I'm curious as to whether or not you agree. I predicted multiple times on the podcast

and the radio show over the last month that I just don't think Bruce Allen will be here in 2020, but after Monday, I believe he will be. So, you know, in talking, trying to talk to people around the league and, you know, people familiar with the team and all that, you know, one response that I got that I put in the article I brought, one of the things I said about Jay Grudence is why it didn't work, along with like never finding a defensive coordinator, things like that,

was that his casual style could never figure out the political animals in that building. And the defense I have is that even if Snyder is willing to have somebody front him because he doesn't want to deal with the public aspect like you're talking about, Bruce is the one he listens to and believes. And therefore, you know, like, you know, as we see, see in various television dramas and movies, you know, who's the voice, who gets to the, who gets to talk to the person in power? Who does that person in power ultimately believe when they're making decisions if they don't

want to sort of get down with the rank and file? And Bruce has that voice. And the question is, you know, like Ted Leontes, he admitted or at least claimed he only listened to Renny Grunfeld. Rennie Grunfeld was the only person he ever talked to. Seems like a crazy approach. But that's what he claimed. Now he has a more open approach with numerous voices.

How does anybody get through to Dan Snyder if the only person he's listening to or believes is Bruce Allen, who a lot of people think is, you know, full of something. So that's the problem. I mean, I would logically think, man, not just because of Gruden, but look at the stadium. I mean, that's what's got to hit home for Snyder the most is watching the Patriots and the Cowboys and the Bears fans, you know, run all over that place. That has got to hurt. So you kind of see that. But does he not understand why this is it going, why is it happening? And, you know, if he's just going to listen to what Bruce Allen was saying,

and Bruce Allen's saying, no, no, we're good, all good, don't mind it. You know, whatever. Then, yeah, nothing changes. I have to imagine logically. He's got two eyes. He sees what's happening that he, that he sends to something has to be changing. But, yeah, I mean, look, until something changes, I'm not going to sit here and say it will. So I'll go with you and just that, sure, he's back, but not for any logical reasons,

just because if that's the guy who's listening to it, then why would he think a change is needed? All right. Last thing, I'll let you run. Let's circle back to this team right now. It's Callahan. They still have games to play, right? They have games. They have 11. If you listen to them, I mean, the culture is damn good, and all of their goals they can still accomplish. They're going to turn into a ground and pound team starting this Sunday against a terrible run defense in Miami. But why not Haskins now?

because I mean I don't think he's I don't think he's ready I'm one of those people that even if he told me you know he had he like Daniel Jones he had been a three-year starter and thrown all those passes and all that I still I'm just my conservative nature is of is just such that if I've got a shaky offense you know the race skins are you know they've got injuries along the offensive line and obviously no Trent Williams Terry McCorn's been great but basically the receivers including the tight ends are not that exciting. The running game is not working. This is not much for me to what's my baseline to throw a rookie quarterback out there who does like experience and feel good that he can just be cut. He doesn't have to do

a ton. He just has to do some basic things and I can put him in a good spot. I just don't think I can do that here at all. So for me, I'm waiting. Now I'm not waiting 17 weeks at this point. I think at some point you have to get ready. Maybe it's after the Buffalo game where you have, wait no, the Minnesota game I mean when you have a good gap between the next week because the Minnesota games on a Thursday, or maybe it's after the bye week, which is what, around the week 11, give or take, somewhere over there. You know, maybe you do that. At some point, you do need to throw him in there to see what you have, but I would try

to figure out a baseline of competency for this team. And also, I'll say this, we focus so much on the quarterback, but there's the other 52 guys who were there. And, you know, I've not had anybody say this flat out, but like in talking to when that conversation a week or two ago came up about the QB reps and Chris Thompson. I spoke to him about it and others chimed in. Sort of the undertone to me was, hey, Haskins can do better by doing these other things and he needs to do that, that, you know, he needs to be better.

And these other guys are trying to play too and they're busting their hump and all that. So, you know, I think you have to consider all that too. If this kid's not ready, it's affecting not just the win-loss, but the other player. So I'd wait a few weeks, see where you're at, try to get something going with this team. positive and then, you know, look to insert him to try to get him going. But I think you've got to get this team going in a proper direction first before I even consider throwing this kid out there. Ben Standing, everybody. Thank you. Really enjoy it as always. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, man. All right, enough about the Redskins. Let's get to what is important in this town,

and that is the game tonight. We've got a game five. We've got a do-or-die game. We had one in the wild card playoff. The Nats got some breaks. They played well. They pitched well. Strasbourg out of the bullpen. They advance to this place where they have not been beyond, and they've got another chance, their fifth chance, to do that tonight. Mark Zuckerman, who obviously has been on the show many times, is on the radio show as our Nats Insider, and covers the team for Masson. Follow him on Twitter at Mark Zuckerman. joins us live from L.A. on a Game 5 Wednesday morning. I guess I would start with the following question. Does Strasbourg have to be great tonight for them to win this game? Or could you envision him being just okay in winning?

He probably has to be great. And the reason I say that is that the guy that they're going up against, Walker Bueller, is probably going to be really good as well. And so if you're thinking you're going to win this game by scoring a bunch of runs, that's probably a tougher path to victory. So to me, the formula is probably similar to what we saw the other night. You're hoping for seven innings from your starter, and then you're going Doolittle in Hudson, and you're hoping that you can put together some runs along the way and give them a lead to work with. So Strasbourg has been brilliant this postseason and in the past, Does that guarantee he's going to be the same again tonight?

No. The Dodgers will have a second look at him. Maybe they'll have figured some things out. Maybe they'll figure out how to work to count a little bit and keep his pitch count up so that he can't go seven innings. But I think it is, you know, really I think we've known for a while now that this team's best chance, maybe only chance or only real chance of winning this series was going to be if their top two guys led the way.

and so far they've been able to do that, and that's gotten them at this point. Yeah, I mean, it's set up after the Sunday night, you know, sixth inning, you know, debacle. It's set up for the opportunity to go Scher-Strausberg to finish this thing up. And it's funny because Aaron and I were talking about this earlier. You know, Scherzer was very close, very close. And that Peterson, you know, hit that barely went foul to not surviving the other night. By the way, just out of curiosity, I'm curious as to, what you thought in the moment with the bases loaded and Peterson up. Were you thinking

Doolittle there? Yeah, I was. I thought Max had just, I thought he was on fumes, which he was, and I thought, I was thinking back to the seventh inning of Game 5 in 2016 when it was 1-0, and Scher came back out for the 7th, and Jock Peterson led off with a home run, and that was Max's last pitch, and Dusty went to the bullpen after that, and it completely fell apart, after that. So I was thinking Doolittle, that foul ball was about as close as you can possibly get. And to Max's credit, he got the out, but yeah, he was on a few steps at that point. Look, he did a great job. He did everything they could have possibly asked to him. But it is a lot to ask, and it's, again, going to be a lot to ask of Strasbourg tonight, given how much he's

been throwing here the last few weeks. We know Doolittle and Hudson are available. Who else is available out of the bullpen. Is it true? Have I heard here over the last few hours that Max could be available to pitch tonight? Well, he was asked the other night, and he was kind of saying, there's just no way my arm is dragging. And based on what I saw from him afterwards, the way he was moving around, the clubhouse the way his arm was literally dragging.

He wasn't moving around, lifting it up or doing anything. I would be really, really surprised. Now, that doesn't mean that in the moment, and depending on how he feels when he gets up today and gets to the ballpark and tries to play catch, doesn't mean that he couldn't go to Davy and say, all right, I'm good for a couple of batters or whatever it might be. But I would be very surprised. And, you know, beyond all that, hey, it's great. Yes, you're doing whatever you can to get through this round because you've never done that before. But there's still a whole seven-game series to come up if they were to win, and it's not like you're just going to sacrifice that. That's what I thought.

Galby mentioned to me earlier, he thought that they might use Scherzer. I said, they're going to use Corbyn, you know, if they have to, in terms of a long reliever. Hopefully they don't have to have a long reliever tonight. But I would guess that Corbyn would be available. Well, or Corbyn, maybe as a matchup for a couple guys against lefties. And then maybe Annabel Sanchez, given how good he was the other night. Yeah. They could look at that. But, no, I mean, they really want to avoid all that kind of stuff, obviously. They want their perfect scenario that this goes exactly like the other night did, and Strasbourg gives them everything he has, and they can just get it to do a little Hudson. But I've been saying all along, this is a very thin needle that they've been trying to thread to get to this path to victory.

They may pull it off, but there's not a whole lot of other ways to go about it. There really is kind of one path for them to do this thing. Yeah. Talk about real quickly what you think the lineup will be. obviously Suzuki is going to catch Strasbourg, so we know that. What else? Is Robles going to be available, or will it be Michael A. Taylor? Yeah, so Robles took batting practice the other day before the game,

and he was trying to say that he thought he was ready to play, and they told him, well, let's not take a chance. It worked out fine because Michael A. Taylor got on base three times, and you know that he plays good defense. But the benefit there was they were facing a lefty, at least to start the game in Rich Hill. now they're facing a really tough righty, not as good of a matchup for Taylor. So I think they're going to try to get Robles to play. It's hard to tell in these situations just how serious a guy is hurt.

But to me, if he wasn't going to be available all the way through tonight, they probably would have replaced him on the roster, even though that means he would be knocked out for the next round. So I have a hunch that Robles is going to play or at least be available in some respect. I think the other real question is going to be, I would have said, assume Ryan Zerman's going to play, given what he's meant for them. So now who's your second baseman? Is it Kendrick,

who has had an interesting series in a lot of different ways, but he's still such an important part of their lineup and such a threat for them? Is it Cabrera, who was so important for them during the year, but has had some bad at bats in this series? I don't

think it's Dozier because of the matchup against the righty. It's got to be Kendrick. It's got to be Kendrick. He gives you right, Mark, he gives you, first of all, clutch hitting, and he got it together here recently, offensively. You just hope he doesn't commit the killer error or base running error, which he had on Sunday night when they were trying to rally in the sixth. Right, and that's what you're just, you got to tell how he, hey, just be yourself,

don't try to be something you're not tonight. There's a reason you're playing for us, and it's because you are the guy who comes up with guys on base and is calm in that moment, rip the single or a double to the gap. He's been doing that for them all year long. And yeah, to have him batting fit behind Rendon and Soto as opposed to Zimmerman, I think there's a huge difference

between that. And so I think ultimately, especially facing such a tough pitcher where they're going to have to try to find a way to get a clutch two-out hit, probably the score run tonight. I think Kendrick probably does make the most sense. All right, let's talk about the thing that concerns me the most

about tonight, which is they're not able to hit Bueller. And look, it's not just Bueller. This team throughout this season, and we've already seen it in the postseason twice, their bats can go silent. We've seen that before. How do they improve their offensive performance against Bueller tonight? Not just against Bueller, but probably Kershaw. Yeah, right, Kershaw will be available to. Won't Riu be available if they have to go him? In theory, yeah, that's another one of those. Are they willing to go with that, or would they say, okay, well, we've got to say somebody for game one if we advance, but that's another question as well, yeah.

So they are going to be facing some very big pitchers all the way through. The Dodgers are set up as well as they could be. How do they do it? Number one is patience. Don't be chasing out of the zone. Bueller was getting them up and out of the zone with those fast falls. They've got to lay off that high fastball, number one. Take your walks as Dave keeps preaching.

Trust that the guy behind you can get the job done. And then when you do come up in those spots with guys on base and two outs, it's got to be about singles. It's not about home runs. They haven't hit the ball out of the park very much at all in this series. And Dodgers Stadium at night is a tough place to hit the ball out on top of all that. So really, the way to do this is to come through with singles, with line drives in those big moments, and that's where Kendrick can be so important and Soto can be so important.

Suzuki's got to do something for them tonight. He's over the series. He's a guy who just looks like he's trying to swing out of his shoes. And he's hit into two double plays the other night. Right, right. So that's what it's going to take. And maybe if Tray Turner gets on, how about letting them try to steal instead of just bunting him over,

which seems to be the strategy every time now with Eaton up. They haven't run much in this series at all. Let's see if maybe they actually try to do something there because that should be an advantage for them. they have guys at Robust plays. They have guys who can do that sort of thing. You know, I had Bo Porter on Friday after game one, and he said one of the things about Bueller that the Nats didn't take care of. He said they didn't take care of the fastball, meaning they had some favorable counts and missed on fastballs. I think Rendon was, you know,

in a 3-0 situation and faced two fastballs and swung and missed. And out of their first six batters, there were multiple. batters that had favorable counts, got fastballs, and couldn't hit him. And he's like, that's, you get into a favorable count situation against Bueller, you know the fastball's coming. You know that the four seamer or the two seamers coming and you've got to take care of the fastball and they didn't do it in game one. And I'm wondering if you have, I asked Galdi this earlier, do you have any information or any data on when you face the same pitcher a few nights, later in the same park, whether or not that's an advantage? Because you'll face the same

pitcher often within a week or a week and a half, but usually not in the same park, you know, at the same time. I wonder if there's any advantage to that for the Nats. Yeah, I think there is. You know, Bueller's not a guy that would have seen a lot over the year. I think maybe they faced them once earlier in the year. I don't even remember, I'll be honest, but it's not like a guy who's in your division that you have a good book on. And so, yeah, the fact that you just saw him and you know what his tendencies are now and you know what that sass ball looks like and you know where it looks like when it's up in the zone and when to lay off of it.

Yeah, I do think that the advantage switches to the hitter in that case, and that's where it'll be interesting to see does he now have to try to do something different or does he stick with what worked for him so well? But now the same applies to Strasbourg because they're getting the same look at him in the same ballpark at the same time and all that. So, yeah, if you're a pitcher, this spot, you have to both trust what you've done that's been successful, but also know that they may be waiting for that and be willing to change it up a little bit.

I think, tell me what you think of this. I think that the pressure is on L.A., that they're at home. They had these 106 wins. They are a prohibited favorite in the series. Their fans don't want to see it end without a World Series this year. They believe that this is the best chance they've had, and that the Nats could really make guys who haven't hit well. Take Bellinger as an example. You know, take Seeger as an example, and really make them sweat if somehow they were to get off to like a 2-0, 3-0 lead.

Do you think the pressure is more on L.A.? Yeah, 100%. And I wrote about it this morning, kind of the theme of my story, the preview for this game. Even though this is a familiar place for the Nationals to be in a game five where the season is all. on the line. This one feels completely different to me because for the first time they're on the road, for the first time they are not the favorites. The other team, I think, has almost all of the

pressure on them. Look, if the Nats lose this game, it's going to be disappointing. People are going to say, oh, man, once again, they couldn't get out of the first round. But look what they were going up against. Look what they accomplished this year. Unless they were to blow a lead in the eighth or ninth inning, it's not a choke job, anything like that. If the Dodgers don't get out of this round, this season is a failure for them. They were supposed to do a whole lot more than this. This is a franchise that, for all its success,

and they're one of the model franchises in baseball, it happened for a long time. They haven't won a title in 31 years, which is amazing when you think about it. And they've only been to the World Series here in these last two years. Prior to that, had not at all. So there's an incredible amount of pressure on them to come through in a first round that they probably felt like,

especially the nationals had to burn everything up to get through the wild card game, they had to feel like they had the complete advantage coming into this thing. So, yes, that's where taking an early lead, I think, makes a huge difference. Keep the pressure on them, keep the crowd maybe out of it somewhat. If they can follow that formula like we talked about, it sets up very well for them, and if they can, I know it's easy to say, but it's hard to do, if they can just stay relaxed and have fun like the way they've been doing for so much this year, there's a real opportunity here for them.

And I think for most of these guys, it's a lot of new guys. It's not all the same ones to the past. I don't think the past playoff failures really bother them. I think they feel like this team is different. And if they can get in that situation and play loose and now all of a sudden the pressures on the other team, watch out. This could be something special tonight. It could be.

Dave Roberts has been in this spot a bunch of times. This will be the first one, unless you want to count the wild card game, is a do-or-die game, which, of course, it was, but it wasn't the fifth game of a series. You know, Martinez, he's had a great series. I think most people would say that, Mark. He's also had a couple of moments that could have gone really poorly, like bringing the winning run up to the plate on Friday night in a 4-2 game, which I thought was insane in the moment.

I know he didn't want to face Muncie, but still, Muncie could only tie the game. You know, the next batter could have won the game with one swing. I thought that was nuts. But advantage which of the two managers tonight, and is it a decided advantage if you think there is one? Probably not a huge decided advantage, because I think as we know with David Martinez,

he can only work with what he has. So he knows what he has to work with here, and I don't think he's all of a sudden going to, do something that they haven't done to this point. I give him, and I give the organization a lot of credit for how they have handled this postseason. This has not just been a, well, hey, this is a wonder swarrow got us through the seventh inning all season long, so that's what we're going to do again. No, they've been creative.

They've gone for broke. They've done whatever they have to do. He hasn't worried about playing favorites. He hasn't worried about sitting guys if the other guy is doing better. he has kept them all together. And you never know in the moment he can make a decision that backfires on them. But I think he's done a really good job. And I think Dave Roberts is a good manager.

He knows his team. He's made one or two sort of questionable decisions. I thought pinch hitting for my aid of the other night and then going to Ureus instead. The night has been unhittable. I totally agreed with that. Yes. So, you know, he hasn't been perfect either, but my guess is going to be, and we'll see if I'm right on this, but my guess is that this game isn't going to be decided by the manager, it's going to be decided by players,

which is how you hope it would be, but you never know in that moment if something crazy might come up. I was, that's something I didn't mention. I didn't think they could hit my Ada. And then when they came in, when they pinch hit for him in the next inning, and by the way, I think they pinch hit with him with Pollock. who has been horrible in this series. If my memory serves me correctly, I was shocked at that, because I really felt that was a one-one game at the time, Mark, I believe. And I was thinking myself, you know what,

they're going to have a difficult time hitting this dude. Yeah, they had all kinds of trouble this series against him. Yeah. And hurry, it's not pitched back-to-back maybe all season long because he's typically a starter. Yeah, and then it was a disaster for him right from the jump, you know, getting behind hitters, you know, giving up. I think it was Turner, Rendon, and then, of course, the Zimmerman, you know, Jack as well.

But I forgot to, I forgot about that moment. I had written it down and I ended up having to take the day off yesterday, so I didn't get a chance to talk about the game. But I thought that was a big mistake, especially, and I remember thinking in the moment, why are you going to hit Pollock for this guy that we can't hit? Like, why would you bring? And by the way, it's a one-one game in the fifth for crying out loud. You know?

Right. I thought that was an insane decision, and maybe he had some sort of feeling about Pollock against Scher. I don't know, but that was nuts. Yeah, no, it was. It's not been perfect either. What do you think? What do you think happens tonight? I think we're going to have late drama again, because that's the way this always goes, right?

This is not just going to be a simple take the lead and hold on the rest of the way kind of game. I think there's going to be late drama. I think Strausberg is going to pitch well. I think it's going to come down to just like the other night. Can he get through the seventh or not? So I think the seventh inning is critical. And I think the ninth inning is critical. Daniel Hudson has gotten the job done for them, of course.

But the last time here, it was awfully close to falling apart. The Dodgers, if they are close in the ninth inning, that crowd is going to be rocking. It would not shock me if, they found a way to pull that off late in the game. I'll say the Nats pull this thing off. I'll say that they're going to do it, but it's not going to be simple. It's going to come down to those seventh, eighth, and ninth innings,

and there's going to be a few heart attack moments along the way. You just hope for the first time in eight years that it's not so much that it does them in that they can somehow pull this off. It'd be the first time, I think, since 1933 a D.C. baseball team's played for a national, or a league pennant. For a Lee pennant. By the way, actually that's not true because in 33 they went right to the old series. They already won the series.

Yeah, but the DC team has never made it that far in the baseball. That's right. By the way, back to your mention about Hudson for a moment. I mean, I personally in watching him here over the last post-trade deadline move, to me he carries a much higher level of confidence in a closing situation than I ever saw in Doolittle. I don't know what it is, but there's a level of confidence in Hudson. And you're right, in game two, which by the way was just a compelling game, start to finish. It was such a good postseason baseball game.

But part of the reason he nearly failed is because Davey intentionally walked Muncie, which I, you know, and put him into that ridiculous. Then he walked the rookie catcher on four pitches. And then he walked the moment. I mean, I'm wondering, what are we doing? I'm wondering in the moment if Hudson's like, what are you doing? Let me pitch to Muncie so I don't lose it on one pitch. And then he walks Smith on four pitches, the matchup that clearly Martinez wanted.

But I do have, maybe it's false confidence. I do have confidence in Hudson much more than I do in Doolittle to, close out a game. Yeah, no, I agree, and I think there is a presence there and a calmness. Yes. He's got nerves of steel. That part's not a question. If he were to blow it, it's not going to be because the moment was too big for him. If anything, it's going to be because the Dodgers are really good and have some really good hitters, and sometimes they are going to make solid contact and come through. So, you know, as much as we want to talk about this is all about the nationals and what they do, they're facing a great team full of all kinds of talent.

And so that's why I'm a little leery just to say, oh, well, if everything goes right, the nationals are going to win. The nationals could play a great game tonight and still lose because of who they're facing. And that's okay. If that happens, it's going to be frustrating for everyone and disappointing, but I think at the end they can hold their heads high. I don't envision a scenario like in the past of these kind of situations where you could clearly say they blew it. They didn't play well.

They gave it up late in the game. They committed a costly mistake. I don't think that's what happens tonight. If they lose, it's because the Dodgers are better. But there is an opportunity. If the nationals play their right game and catch them at the right time and do everything right, there is an opportunity here for them to win us. I mean, it seems like, you know, you always in sports when you, there's a huge.

huge buildup for something, at least this is my view. You usually get something that you're not expecting. I mean, for me, the least expected result would be, you know, 9-7. We're both starting pitchers, you know, don't pitch well, and you're into a bullpen situation and, you know, in a big offensive game, I don't expect that at all. I hope Strauss pitches well. He's really become the ace and the clutch pitcher for them, and I'd be surprised if he doesn't. I would. I don't know if it'll be enough because Bueller could be outstanding and we could be sitting there, you know, one, one in the seventh, and they, you know, they've got a lot of, they got a lot of opportunities there, you know, both out of the bullpen and, you know, offensively. But I'd be surprised if we don't

see Strasbourg pitch well. That would be the biggest surprise to me tonight. Yeah, I think so. I think this is much more likely a low-scoring, well-pitched games than the opposite. And look for, to take the broader view of all this, why did they shut down Strasbourg in 2012 so that they believe they would have him to pitch in a whole lot more postseason games for them for many years? This is why they shut up down to have him on the mountain at his very best now tonight. Doesn't mean it's going to work, but seven years later, it's starting to come into more focus of why they did with it. That's a really, really good point. Not everybody circles back to that decision in 2012.

but we're here seven years later. And even two years ago, he's pitching in a big-time game for Wrigley Field. And, you know, there could be many more to come. I mean, he may be just hitting his prime right now. Thank you so much for getting up out in L.A. Enjoy the game, and I'll talk to you when you get back. Okay, thanks, Kevin. Great catching up with Mark.

All right, let's get to Nats beat Dodgers if. Yeah. Little baseball music. Is this Fox? This was the old Fox. Remember Fox then went to like the standard for all the sports? Yeah, good job. This was a great one, though.

This was a really good one. I love the intro themes to NFL and basketball and baseball, hockey, all of them. Some of the networks do such a great job. All right. Talk a little bit about some of this stuff with Mark, but here I go. And Aaron's going to participate too. Nats beat Dodgers if it's the first question. I asked Mark, because my answer is absolutely yes. Strasbourg's got to be really good tonight.

You know, he's got to be seven innings, one run, two max earned runs, 10 strikeouts, you know, five total hits, you know, maybe a walk or two. It's got to get through seven, you know, and then you can bring in Doolittle and Hudson and close it out. He's got to be good. I don't see a way in which they win the game with him. having a rocky start and all the sudden Bellinger gets it going and he gives up four earned runs in the first three innings and he's up to a high pitch count. I don't see it. He's got to be really good tonight. I agree. I think and I will kind of add to that. He needs to go seven and this needs to be a Strasbourg-Doolittle Hudson game. Don't mess around with any other starters. Don't mess around with any

other relievers. It needs to be those three. Here's the good news. You know, this this is a guy who, to me, is coming off really, maybe not his best statistical season, but if you take into consideration things like health, availability, the fact that, you know, there is a level of confidence in him from everybody and a level of confidence you see in himself that I don't think we've ever seen. He has become their ace, you know, and by the way, he's been a brilliant postseason pitcher. Another reason to be confident in him tonight. His post-season ERA is 0.64.

His post-season whip is 0.82. He's been a clutch post-season pitcher. His performance last Friday night in game two. The performance off the bench out of the bullpen, the 34 pitches that he threw against Milwaukee. I think he's going to be great tonight. I do. And like you said, hand it over to Doolittle.

Doolittle makes me squirm a little bit. If you're in that seventh and you've got a bunch of lefties coming up, I wouldn't hesitate on Corbyn personally. I just don't have the trust in Doolittle that I wouldn't Corbyn. I don't think Corvin pitched so poorly on Sunday night. He just had a couple of bad pitches. I feel like they've gone to the starter well so many times. It's worked.

It hasn't worked. I think that more often than not, it doesn't work, especially in big high leverage games. Obviously, we see it on both sides. I just got a bad feeling if they have to go to a starter that's going to blow up in their face. Well, let me just also mention, I don't know that I mentioned this morning, I don't think I'd be that upset or worried if they had to pitch Swarrow against one hitter. I don't think I would. I just don't have trust in him right now.

Let's say Strasberg is out after seven, okay, that he's at 117 pitches, and he gets out. He just strikes out his last batter. And by the way, with two runners on, but he survives, and so there's no threat of him coming back. In fact, they got a pinch hit for him in the top of the eighth. Right. Right. Right.

And you're facing righties to open up the bottom of the eighth. I mean, are you going to go Hudson there? Probably not. I don't think I'd have a problem with Swarrow facing a righty or two and then bringing in Doolittle to face a lefty. I don't think I would. But anyway, the Nats will beat the Dots. Rogers if they don't make mistakes. These games are often decided by mistakes and breaks.

All right. So the mistakes being, you know, a key error, you know, a boot on an infield, you know, hit, or a high throw from third with two outs that, you know, pulls Zim off the bag and now all of a sudden the inning's still alive. You can't have Kendrick have the errors that he had. You can't have base running errors like Kendrick did on Sunday night. when they're actually making a legitimate run back into that game at 8 to 2, they'd gotten it to 8 to 4, and he gets thrown out between 2nd and 3rd. You can't have something like that. Look, Soto had a base running error on the biggest hit of the postseason so far. Those kinds of things are going to hurt them tonight, and at the same time, the brakes that they've gotten,

the bloop, you know, broken bat single from Zimmerman in the wildcard game. Soto's single that, you know, turned into an error in right field. the Peterson double that wasn't a double, the base clearing double that could have been by an inch. If they get that break and they don't make errors, they'll have a legit shot to win the game. I think they need, you know, big hits from the big players. Anthony Rendon needs to step up. Juan Soto, ideally, needs to step up, become that superstar. You know, we're waiting for him to ascend from great young player into superstar.

This could be that moment if he comes through with a big hit here. You know, that's when one thing that over the years since 2012 in these playoffs, for the most part, we don't get the big hits from the big players. And, you know, it's been overshadowed by the pitching meltdowns and stuff. The hitters need to come through today. Is Trey Turner more likely than not leading them offensively right now in terms of hits? He's got to be right. Probably, yeah. Turner's been on base a ton in this series and, you know, against the Brewers.

What's Rendon hitting in a series? Here it is. Turner is 7 for 21, right? He's hitting 333. He's leading them. I mean, of the guys that have taken every bat. Zimmerman's actually hitting 400 and Michael Hay-Taylor, 429. Zimmerman's got four hits and 10 at bats.

Yeah. You know, and obviously, you know, three RBIs off that three-run jack. Turner's hitting 333. On-base percentage is 364. Rendon hasn't had a bat. He's four for 15, hitting 267, on base percentage 381. He's got four walks, too. He's got the walks.

He doesn't have that big extra base hit, though. No, he doesn't. That's what we want for him. He has the one double. He has the one double. I'm just saying he needs to come through in this game. Right. All right, I agree with that.

And by the way, they got to figure out the Nats beat the Dodgers if they find a way to get to Bueller. You know, Galdi was pointing this out on the radio this morning with me. He's like, the Nats have actually hit. good pitching at times this year. And Bueller's had some big blow-up games this year. He hasn't been dominant like every single time he's been out there. What we did see, though, in game one was a difficult guy to hit, even though he got behind in a lot of counts, you know, early in that game. Lastly, for me, the Nats beat the Dodgers, and I asked Mark this question, and I'll answer it myself.

There's no doubt the pressures on L.A. And they can make him swing. went early with a lead. You know, we've seen some tight at-bats from Bellinger in particular. You know, he's not having an MVP postseason. Now, he got it going a little bit on Sunday night. Remember, didn't Bellinger have the two hits in the same inning the other night? Didn't he have two hits in that 11 at-bat inning for them in game three? Yes, I believe that's the case. I think he did. But overall, you know, the Dodgers have not gotten star performances offensively. from their stars. They've obviously gotten a star performance from Muncie.

Justin Turner is clutch in the postseason. Bellinger's 3 for 15. Peterson's 2 for 11. Who am I forgetting? Corey Seeger is 3 for 16, and A.J. Pollock is 0 for 12. I don't know why you would see Pollock tonight. Look out for a guy like David Freeze in a big spot.

Oh, God. Not him again. Yeah. And by the way, Hernandez is a righty versus Doolittle could be a problem. Like if Doolittle comes out and is scheduled to face some lefties and all of a sudden they go Hernandez, obviously Hernandez had a huge, huge at bat and hit in this series that produced two RBIs on Sunday night. All right. Final part of this show.

Prediction with a footnote. You can turn the music down. That was great, though. That was a good pull. I've got the Nats 2 to 1 in a game that's predictable, even though the contrarian in me wants to say 8, 5 or something like that, that it ends up being something totally different than what we're expecting. Both pitchers are outstanding.

Strasbourg's great, gets the 7, gets the 1-earned run, gets the 4 hits, 10 strikeouts, you know, a walk or 2 max, leaves the game in a 1-1 game, and in the 8th, Michael A. Taylor with an RBI single. Remember the clutch performance, the Grand Slam he had in the game four at Wrigley? Oh, absolutely. And he was very good the other day. Michael A. Taylor with an RBI go-ahead single in the top of the 8th, and Hudson comes in to close it out, and they advance with a 2-1 win.

That's my prediction. What's yours? I don't think it's going to be as clean as that. I think that maybe early on it starts that way. If you want to bet the first five under, I would have no problem with doing that. Strasbourg had a perfect game through four and two thirds on Friday night. I have a feeling this game could get weird around the sixth or seventh inning, though. I really do.

I think this is going to be one where both pitchers start to run out of gas a little bit early than usual. I see this being, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to say Anthony Rendon gets that big hit. He comes through, gets that home run for three Nats. Wouldn't it be great if his big. hit came in the top of the ninth to give the Nats the lead and then Bellinger is the last at bat with a chance with the bases loaded and he strikes out. Yeah. Oh yeah. That's all I want to see. Yeah. Is that too much to ask? No, not too much at all. By the way, just as a piece of information,

the Nats did win more games than the Cardinals this year. But if the Cardinals win game five, they play their game five with the Braves before the Nats Dodgers game tonight. If they were to win game five and the Nats were to win their game five. St. Louis has the home field advantage as a division winner. Yes. The wild card team. The four seed versus the three seed, versus the three seed, even though the Nats won two more games than St. Louis did during the season. By the way, I think Atlanta wins that game. They've been a clutch team all year long. I think somehow Atlanta gets through. And, you know, and by the way, Atlanta is not a good matchup for the Nats based on the regular season. They've sort of owned

the nationals in the regular season. But wouldn't it be cool to get there to see a baseball team from Washington playing for a National League pennant? That would be awesome. Get to a seven-game series. They had not played a seven-game series since

1933. Yes. There you go. All right. Thanks to Mark Zuckerman for joining us on the show today. Thanks to Ben Standig as well. Listen to to us on iTunes, Apple Podcast. rate us, review us, subscribe, doesn't cost you anything. Back tomorrow, hopefully with Tommy. Have a great day.