The Kevin Sheehan Show - NFC East Wide Open?

Episode Date: August 18, 2021

Kevin and Thom today opened with a discussion about the recent controversy surrounding a Naomi Osaka press conference. Thom weighed in on the Steve Buckhantz/Joe Gibbs "Playboy" interview from 30 years ago. Then a discussion about the NFC East....how many teams can legitimately win it this year? Kevin thinks all 4 and explains why.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here today. I am here today. The show is presented by MyBooky.

Go to MyBooky at MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code. Kevin, D.C. And they will match your original first deposit dollar for dollar. They're going to double your first deposit. You know, put in 500 bucks. You'll get an extra 500 to play with. Put in $1,000.

you'll get an extra thousand to play with. Obviously, football season now right around the corner. A week from Saturday, actually, is the first college football Saturday. There aren't a lot of games, but there's a Big Ten game, and I think UCLA plays. And then the following week is a full-fledged college football weekend heading into, believe it or not, Labor Day at that point. Tommy's with me. Again, Kevin D.C. at MyBooky, MyBooky.ag. Tommy's with me. I do want to get his reaction to Buckhantz on the show yesterday.

If you miss that, go back and listen to it. 30 years ago this week, the famous Buck Gibbs Playboy interview. And Tommy, you know, I sent Tommy the interview as well. He's listened to it. He wants to weigh in on that. Got some NFC East talk for you today. I thought Kyle Allen said something yesterday that was interesting. But we're going to start the show with something that isn't Washington football team related today because you said you wanted to do this on the show and I said I'm not totally familiar with the story.

So I just took five minutes to go back and watch this video. The video of Naomi Osaka in Cincinnati before an event being interviewed in a press conference format. You'll recall that Naomi Osaka withdrew from the French Open after issues related to press conference, anxiety, mental health, issues related to press conferences, even though the French Open did request to sit down with Naomi and her people to come up with something that would have been easier for her to deal with. She didn't end up playing at Wimbledon. She's back. She did play at the Olympics. She's back and she had a press conference the other day in which Paul Doherty of the Cincinnati Inquirer asked her a question and it got into about a four-minute segment, if you will.

And I think the only way for you to understand what Tommy and I are going to discuss is to play it for you. But she's being interviewed and Paul Doherty of the Cincinnati Inquirer asked, her the following question. It's better to watch than it is to listen to, but we don't have that ability here. But here it is, if you've already heard it, just fast forward through the next couple of minutes

and then we'll get to our reaction. It's Paul Doherty from the Cincinnati Enquirer. Let's follow up on that last question. You're not crazy about dealing with us, especially in this format. Yet you have a lot of outside interests

that are served by having a media, a platform. I guess my question is, how do you balance the two? And also, do you have anything you'd like to share with us about what you did say to Simone Biles? When you say I'm not crazy about dealing with you guys, what does that refer to? Well, you say that you don't especially like the press conference format. And yet that seems to be the, obviously, the most widely used means of communicating to the media and through the media to the public. That's interesting.

I would say the occasion, like, when to do the press conference is what I feel is the most difficult. But, sorry, I'm thinking. I think we can move on to the next question, Naomi. Do you want to move on to the next question? No, I'm actually very interested in that, like, point of view. So if you could repeat that, that'd be awesome. The question was that you're not especially fond of dealing with the media, especially in this format.

You have suggested there are better ways to do it, that we'd like to try to explore that. My question, I guess, was you also have outside interests beyond tennis that are served by having the platform that the media presents to you. My question is how are you able, how do you think you might be able to best balance the two? I mean, for me, I feel like this is something that I can't really speak for everybody. I can only speak for myself. But ever since I was younger, I've had a lot of media interest on me. And I think it's because of my background as well as, you know, how I play. because in the first place I'm a tennis player, that's why a lot of people are interested in me.

So I would say in that regards I'm quite different to a lot of people, and I can't really help that there are some things that I tweet or some things that I say that kind of create a lot of news articles or things like that. And I know that it's because I've won a couple grand slams, and I've gotten to do a lot of press conferences. that these things happen. But I would also say, like, I'm not really sure how to balance it to. Like, I'm figuring it out at the same time as you are, I would say. Part of the fallout of what happened there was that Osaka's agent, his name is Stuart Duguit. That's her, I don't know how to pronounce it,

or do get or do guid or do guide, he ripped the reporter saying the following, quote, this insinuation that Naomi owes her off-court success to the media is a myth. Don't be so self-indulgent. The bully at the Cincinnati Inquirer is the epitome of why player media relations are so fraught right now. Everyone on that Zoom will agree that his tone was all wrong

and his sole purpose was to intimidate, really appalling behavior, closed quote. Go ahead. You can have that at it first. I mean, I would vehemently disagree. My tone would be this, that the age of this fault shit, that he's just, whether he caught some plaque from Osaka after the press conference, or just jumped, you know, as a preemptive strike for questions like this, I think it's ridiculous.

I think the tone was fine. And I think as part of your evaluation for everybody, you should go read Paul Doherty's column in Cincinnati. In Cincinnati.com with a headline that says, Naomi Osaka is honest, thoughtful, and could help many other athletes. it's one of the best things I've read about Naomi Osaka. And it talks about all the weight on her shoulders, all the, all she's accomplished. And it says, and yet she, okay, where does it say that?

Yeah, I think I have the part. Osaka didn't ask to be a spokesperson for mental health or a vocal or visible fighter for racial justice, but she's accepted both roles. Problem is she's not built for either. She's an introvert whose tennis success had put her high atop a public platform. It's all she can do to avoid vertigo. This is a well-thought-out column.

Certainly sympathetic of Naomi Osaka. And for this clown to be calling Paul Docherty of Bowie sort of exposes to me the agenda that's going on here about them wanting to control basically what the tour does with her on a regular basis. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised at some point they try to negotiate an agreement with the tour that says no questions about mental health. From the mental health spokeswoman. So I think it's really important to watch it rather than read how this exchange went.

You don't get to see him. You just hear him. You see her. And she responded. She responded well. She ultimately responded well. But you could see the, you could see her mind really racing and thinking. And there was, I think, in my view, there was some real mental anxiety with what she thought the question was and what her answer was going to be.

I wanted to just, you read a really, I'm reading the column, you know, as you were reading part of it, and I've read more of it now in just this last minute and a half. But I think it's, the paragraph you read is such a great paragraph. Osaka didn't ask to be a spokesperson for mental health or a vocal invisible fighter for racial justice, but she accepted both roles. Problem is she's not built for either. she's an introvert whose tennis success has put her atop a public platform. It's all she can do to avoid vertigo.

It really is an incredibly well-written paragraph, but then he goes on. This is Paul Dockertie or Doherty, however, it's pronounced from the Cincinnati Inquirer. Is it Dockertie? Do you know him? Yeah. Okay. I know who he is. Okay. I'm familiar with his work.

Okay, Dockery. Okay. I asked Osaka this on Monday. you're not crazy about dealing with the media, especially in press conference settings. You've got a lot of interests that are served by your media platform. How do you balance the two? Maybe she didn't understand the question, or maybe it made her uncomfortable. In the Zoom format, there's no room for discussion or nuance.

I repeated the question twice. After a couple of 30-second pauses, Osaka said, this is something that I can't really speak for everybody. But ever since I was younger, I've had a lot of media interest on me, and I think it's because of my background as well as you know how I play. in the first place I'm a tennis player, and we just played this for you. But it's a really thoughtful answer that ends with. I've won a couple of grand slams. I've gotten to do a lot of press conference where these things happen,

but I would also say, I'm not really sure how to balance the two. I'm figuring it out at the same time you are. And he writes, honest, thoughtful, and unlike any answer I've gotten in 34 years covering sports in Cincinnati. Now, maybe that's an exaggeration, and maybe part of this column was to write something super nice about her after this exchange blew up, and he probably took the brunt of it. I don't know. I didn't see it until right before this press conference, but let me also agree with you. The agent's comments are way off. There is nothing bullying about the way he approached it. In fact, I think he was careful to approach it. Now, the question itself is one many have asked, which is, here you are, you know, not loving these things and having mental health issues over these press conferences. And yet, you are, you know, and he didn't say this, but she is the, she just made more money in one single year than any female athlete in sports history. Naomi Osaka did in 2020.

And so she has all of these off-court endorsement interests, and he's asking, you know, that requires quite the press commitment as well. So how do you, you know, how do you balance the two where one, you know, is a true commitment that, you know, results in all of these endorsements? And, you know, I don't think it was an unfair question. I think it was a well-thought-out question. I think it was certainly a question that could put her on the defensive a little bit because you're talking... But if people are working for her did not prepare her for that type of question, then they're not doing their job.

I mean, you've got to say people are going to ask you, how can you be this high-profile star and then, you know, not want to talk to the media? Right. That's the logical. I mean, I had to... Everyone knew that was common. Yeah. I mean, in the video that I was watching to watch this exchange, the introduction was made by the woman whose name escapes me right now,

but she's the woman that's part of the Stephen A. Smith show with Kellerman. And she introduces it as, listen carefully to this very triggering question. Of course. I mean, come on. There's nothing trigger. well, it ultimately did trigger a response, but it wasn't intended to be triggering, and it certainly wasn't bullying or self-indulgent. It just wasn't. In fact, you know, from what I, I did not follow this story closely, and I haven't talked about it all week, and I'm glad you brought it up because I've been meaning to get to it.

But I did read something on Twitter late night the other night that said it was the biggest, you know, careful, tiptoeing around a player or a coach press conference that anybody's ever seen. Like everybody was incredibly, you know, careful and empathetic about, and sympathetic about, you know, her situation and how tough these things were to do. And that it was, you know, for the most part, pretty benign until it got to this. And then, by the way, she was asked about the Haiti earthquake, you know, because she is part Haitian. And she has donated, she's donating her winnings. Right.

To the victims of the earthquake. Why can't we just say after that, good question, really good answer. Yeah, it was uncomfortable. It appeared to make her uncomfortable. She appeared to be, you know, suffering briefly, you know, and feeling some anxiety related to the question. By the way, welcome to the club. Not that I'm trying to put, you know, everybody else that,

gets questions and is under pressure into the category of also having, you know, mental anxiety associated with it. But this is part and parcel to the job. And I know a lot of people want it to change. Whatever. Have your opinion on that. But I thought she dealt with it really well and gave a really thoughtful answer, even though it really looked like she was stressing, you know, really stressing there for a couple of minutes. But ultimately, she gave a great answer. And here's what the Cincinnati inquirer said in his defense, in Doherty's defense, they wrote, we appreciate the respectful dialogue with Ms. Osaka at the press conference. It was a straightforward question that we felt led to a meaningful exchange. That said we sincerely regret that our

questioning upset her in any way, closed quote. It was straightforward, and it did lead to a meaningful, interesting exchange. She did well. I don't know. Hey, you did well, Naomi. I agree with you. I I agree with you. I agree she did. And again, if she's prepared by people she can trust, she had to know this was coming. And again, she skipped Wimbledon this year following the press, the French Open fiasco.

But if she's ever going to play in Wimbledon again with the British press, you know? Right. I mean, so she's going to have to be ready for this at some point. Yeah. Unless she's going to start the Naomi Osaka for her. Right. And the number one fear and anxiety in most societies is public speaking.

So, and people overcome that anxiety. There are, you know, there are things you can do, people you can see, you know, to help you lessen that anxiety, if not eliminate it altogether. and at some point maybe even embrace the opportunity of public speaking. Look forward to it. Now, the agent on the insinuation that Naomi owes her off-court success to the media is a myth. You know, this is the epitome of why player media relations are so fraught right now. Look, the part where he says that everybody on Zoom agrees the tone was all wrong and the sole purpose was to intimidate.

really appalling behavior is ridiculous hyperbole the world we're living in right now. It's not even close to what I took from it. But there is this obvious debate, Tommy, about, you know, how much of these athletes' success, and I'm talking about more of their financial success, is assisted by the media and would it be far different if this media layer was cut out? I know we've had this conversation before, but that, you know, is sort of what he's referring to there.

Right. And I would say at this point, since that's kind of a subjective, murky thing to basically nail down, the tour, the people who run the tour that allows these players to compete, do think it's an important part of the tour success. So therefore, they have been steadfast in including this.

If the players want to go out and start their own tour, to have it. Right, and they can create their own rules around it. Yes. You know. So it is connected. It is connected because the tour thinks to help. of the tour is important

to have these press conferences, and without it, the tour would suffer, and then its participants would suffer. So in that sense, it is connected. So I think she'll get asked this question again. I think she'll get better at it. But what this gave us a glimpse of, and we've seen this before with people with money,

a lot of times. I'm making a generalization here, and there's an exception to every rule. but people like particularly stars, media stars, athletic stars, movie stars, they're usually surrounded by people that tell them what they want to hear. They're rarely surrounded by people who will tell them things they don't want to hear.

And his reaction to this is clearly gives you a glimpse as to what Naomi Asaka is being told behind the scenes by her people. You're 100% right. You shouldn't be doing these press conferences, and these people are just vultures. Right. It's okay, Naomi.

You're bigger than this. You're bigger than them all. Okay, that's enough of that. I want to get your reaction to hearing that Joe Gibbs, Steve Buchance thing, 30 years later. You've probably heard it at some point along the way, but it is the 30-year anniversary. We did it on the show yesterday. We'll get Tommy's reaction to that. I also want to talk some NFC East on the program today. We'll do all of those things right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Two weeks away, the team is very spotty. That would concern me if I were the coach at this point. Even with everyone saying it's the most talented team we've seen in a long time. Now, that, that I might say, is ridiculous. Whoever said that? Who did say that?

A lot of people have said it. Who's a lot of people? Playboy picked you to go to the Superboy. Take it for what it is, then. Playboy. Okay? Playboy picking football, you know? So anybody that would say this is the most talented team in a long time, Steve, all I'm saying is, that's kind of ridiculous. And I've said it from the beginning.

Now, people are going to say it? Hey, fine, go ahead and say it. That's kind of absurd. So I'm not taking that as a shot at our team, and it's certainly nobody around. here has said that. I don't think that at all. I think we've got a long ways to go and we haven't won a division here in four years. So I mean, we got serious problems. Okay, so I'm just telling everybody that right now. So anybody else thinks that, then they got my answer on it. Gotcha. There it was, Tommy. 30 years ago this week, Playboy, I had Buck on the show yesterday,

but I want you to give me your quick thoughts and also ask the question that you asked me before the show that people haven't heard yet about what you said about Buck. Well, you know, I love Buck. He's one of the great all-time media people in this town. But I'll bet when

he asked that question and gives shot back with his question, I'll bet you Buck wished he had as his go-to answer, anything but playboy. Of course. He said it yesterday on the show. He had been better

all saying? I think so. He said yesterday, he said, I just, that's my, he said, that's my one regret. He said, first of all, I was reading it the night before and I said the articles, of course, you were reading the night before. But he said, you know, after the reaction, he goes, why didn't I just say, well, the man that pays you, the owner of this team just told me three hours ago that he thinks this is the best team you've ever had and he expects a Super Bowl. That would have been an answer. That would have been a great answer. To which he said, Gibbs would have said, or he talked to Gibbs about it later and Gibbs

apologized to him down the road. But Gibbs said, yeah, well, if you had given me that answer, I would have said, well, of course that's what Mr. Cook said. That's what he thinks every single year. This year's no different. You know, I went back, interestingly, and this morning, interestingly to me anyway, because one of the things I thought, and I wanted to make sure I was right about, and it turns out I wasn't right about it, is I thought that Washington really was, you know,

the preseason pick by most people in 1991, to win the Super Bowl or to certainly be one of the, you know, Super Bowl favorites. And they weren't. You know, Playboy, you know, picked sports every year. Remember, Playboy was a big, was a big preseason magazine on college and football predictions. People loved it. And as Buck said, and he's right, it was credible. They had, you know, really good people writing and predicting the upcoming football season. But the truth is, I went back and used pro football reference because they give you this. Washington was plus 1,000 to win the Super Bowl. In the NFC, there were two teams that had better odds.

The Giants and the 49ers. The Giants were the defending champions. They had beaten San Francisco in the NFC championship game the year before. In what was in my memory, it's one of the greatest NFL games of all time. The 15 to 13 NFC title game at Candlestick Park where Matt Barr kicked five field goals and Lawrence Taylor was all over the field. And there was a forced fumble on Roger Craig. It was such a great game as San Francisco was going for the three-peat.

And they were a big favorite. The Giants won. They went on to beat Buffalo in the, you know, Scott Norwood missed field. With Jeff Hostel. With Jeff Hostel, a quarterback. So the Giants were plus 400. The 49ers were plus 400. And then came Washington at plus 1,000 and the Eagles at plus 1,000.

And I'm talking about in the NFC. The Eagles over under win total was 10 and a half. Washington's was 9 and a half. Well, those were the Redgie White Randall Cunningham Eagles, right? Yeah. The Eagles were a good team too. Now, the year before, you know, was the 1990 body bag game, Buddy Ryan had been fired.

Rich Cotite was the new head coach coming into Philadelphia. Buddy Ryan got fired after Washington got revenge, and the greatest revenge game in franchise history, in my opinion, when they went to Philadelphia and went to the vet in the postseason two months after the body bag game and beat Philadelphia and Buddy Ryan ran off the field for the final time without shaking Joe Gibbs's hand. And then Washington lost to San Francisco the following week, 28-10 at Candlestick.

But they came back in 91 and the Eagles were still good. The Giants were the defending champs, and Washington was supposed to be good, but they were really the fourth pick. in the NFC to win the NFC championship. And then for the Super Bowl, Buffalo had better odds. And so did the Raiders and the Chiefs that year have better odds. That would have been the Marty Schottenheimer chiefs.

Yeah, right. Yeah, the Marty Schottenheimer chiefs with, you know, the old guy at quarterback, quarterbacked them that year. Montana. No, no, no, no, Montana wasn't there yet. Matt. Steve Deberg, Steve DeBerg, who was like, you know, who played until he was like 40. I think he and George Blanda are the two oldest.

Actually, Brady's probably approaching that area as well. But they weren't, you know, consensus favorites. Anyway, Playboy picked him to win the Super Bowl before that year. And a lot of people were pretty bullish about the team. You know, Tommy, the thing that I told Buck that I loved, I just loved hearing Joe. That's what, that's vintage Joe for me. If anybody suggested that they were the better team than any opponent or the better team heading into a season, oh my God, that was a way to get him tilted. He would just, there was, he was the opposite, as I've said many times, he was the opposite of what the franchise has become over the last two decades.

He over-delivered consistently and under-promised consistently. and that was him. He just, he didn't want to give anybody any reason to believe or pay attention to his team. He wanted to sneak up on everybody. It was hard to sneak up on people that year because they opened the season with a 45-0-0-1-1-0. Then they beat the Cowboys on a Monday night. Then they shut out Phoenix 34-0. Three of their first five games were shut-out wins.

And, of course, they started that year 11-0 in Finns. finished 14 and 2 and didn't even have a close game in the postseason, you know, ripped through Atlanta in the seat cushion game, crushed Detroit in the NFC championship game, and crushed Buffalo in the Super Bowl. Look, I mean, you know what I think of Joe Kitts. And, you know, I only covered him for one full season in 92. And I'll bet, you know, what was interesting was, I wonder if, he knew throughout the whole season that was going to be his last year.

Well, it wasn't his last year. The following year was his last year. 92. Yeah. I mean, I covered him in 92. Yeah, you covered him in 92 as the defending champs. Yeah, that year that I covered him if he was going to bow out. Yeah, I don't know, that 90. He's a little bit looser than he had been in previous years. Right. That 92 year was, um, that was a, that was a, that, that, that, was a tough year. You know, Rippin held out, came in late. They were rocky early. They got blown out, you know, in the opener against the Cowboys on Monday Night Football. Well, they had their number one pick, Desmond Howard, was a disaster. He held out too. Yeah, it was a disaster. He

held out too. And then, you know, they made a run from six and five to get back into the postseason. They had a great game, which, by the way, is another game, like maybe a year ago I watched, which is available on YouTube. Late in the regular season at Philadelphia, it was a crucial game in the playoff and division race. They lost to Philadelphia, 17, 13. They almost scored at the end. And then they got completely upset in a game they were heavily favored against the

Raiders in at the end of the year. They were a 14-point favorite to clinch a playoff spot. They lost at home. It was Saturday. And the following day, they needed minutes. to beat, listen carefully, Brett Fav and the Green Bay Packers to eliminate Green Bay and get Washington into the postseason. And they did that. They beat the Packers 27 to 7 in a game that Minnesota didn't even need to win. Washington gets in. Brett Fav is eliminated. I think that was his first year in Green Bay.

and then Washington goes to Minnesota the next week and pounds the Vikings in the playoffs. And that was Joe Gibbs' last playoff win. They lost to the 49ers the following week out of candlestick in a close game. You know, sort of a famous game for Brian Mitchell and Mark Rippen. They botched a handoff late in the game when they were on their way in to take the lead in the fourth quarter.

And that was it. That was the end. Joe retired two months later and Buck broke that story. He was the one that broke that story. Yeah. By the way, I've never asked you this. Tell me what you thought as being on the beat

for one of the two major newspapers in the market. You're on the beat for the first year and the first year Joe Gibbs retires in March of 1993 and it's a TV guy that breaks the news. Oh, I was off the beat by then. They had put me on the Orioles in the spring. Oh, okay. So I didn't feel any remorse.

Not that I would have gotten it anyway, but I wasn't the one who woke up with a pit in my stomach after reading that. No, but the posts probably did. Buck beat me on a story about the talks between Bill Collins and the used of the Astros. about buying the Astros. He talked about that yesterday. Yeah, he beat me on that one. I said to him after we talked about him breaking the Gibbs story,

I said, is that the biggest story? And he said, that one, and I broke the story. I had the story, the Houston, and he told the story about how he got this story, about it. Everybody else thought it was the Giants or the Padres or other teams, and I was the only one that had. had that it was the Astros. And of course it fell apart. But he was right that it was the Astros

that were going to be coming. All right. The one thing I remember about that last game of the 92 season, the one they lost to the Raiders, I think the score was 3835. I'm not really sure. And Vince Evans was the quarterback. He was. He was. In that game. And my job at that point, I had to go into the opposing locker room to do their reaction and interviews with the Raiders. And I'll never forget this. In a corner locker room by himself was Bob Golick. And his shoulders are heaving, and he's crying his eyes out. He's just bawling.

And I walked over to him. And I asked him, what's the matter? You know, what happened? and he said this was my last game. He said, I'm retiring. I'll never play football again. That was Bob Golick, not, yes, not Mike Golick.

This was Bob Golick. Bob Gollick, who went on to be a radio talk show host in Cleveland for years, I think. Oh, really? Yeah, but that was a pretty, he was very open about, you know, the idea that it was over for him, you know, and he was glad he went out with a win, and that was part of the emotion, winning a game they figured they had no chance of winning,

but that's his emotional I've ever seen any athlete in any setting I've covered. It was, I remember that game vividly. You know, all they had to do was win one of their final two games to clinch a playoff spot, and they had lost to Philadelphia in a draining game the week before. And so then it was a short, turnaround because it was a Saturday afternoon noon game at RFK

and they lose to Vince Evans 21 to 20 I think was the final score. You're thinking about the 3835 game that Washington won in 83 I think man anyway the

and by the way Jay Schrader was a quarterback on that Raider team. He would be their eventual starter you know the no he was the the starter of the year before when they got to the AFC title game and lost to Buffalo.

Right? I think that's right. I think Buffalo beat the Raiders before playing Washington. No, they beat Kansas City before playing Washington. They beat Buffalo before playing the Giants. I think that's what it was. Yeah, I think they played Buffalo before the Giants and they played Kansas City. I don't know. I can't remember now. I remember Jay Schrader was the quarterback against the Bills when they lost 51 to nothing in an AFC championship game. That's what I'm remembering. And I can't remember if it was the year that they played the skins in the Super Bowl or the year that they played the Giants in the Super Bowl. And then I think Buffalo beat Denver, not Kansas City, but Denver in an AFC title game before playing Washington. Or I have that reversed.

Whatever. Not important. But yeah, that was a devastating loss. But, you know, typical of Joe Gibbs, Tommy, you know, the season appears to be over, and then they get, you know, a reprieve with the Minnesota win over Brett Farve and the Packers the next day. They're in the postseason. And he had every trick up his sleeve when they went to Minnesota. They had a fake punt.

He used Brian Mitchell a ton in the backfield, and they crushed Minnesota. And then they were very close to beating San Francisco the following week at Candlestick. And they would have played the Cowboys in the NFC Championship game in Dallas. Instead, Dallas ended up beating San Francisco at Candlestick the following week for Jimmy Johnson's first Super Bowl win. Speaking of Jimmy Johnson, and I want to circle back to Washington football in the NFC East here in a moment, did you see the story about what Jimmy Johnson told Dan Lebitard on a radio show? Yeah. Jimmy Johnson told Dan Lebitard, I think it was yesterday,

that in the 1998 season when he was the head coach and general manager of the Miami Dolphins, that he had a chance to trade with Indianapolis for the number one overall pick and select Peyton Manning. and he didn't pull off the trade because it was going to require their entire draft, which was a late first rounder, but two-toes, two-threes, like a four or five, two-sixes and a seven in terms of the picks. He said on the LeBittard show, I'm looking for the quote, he said, we nearly pulled off a trade for the number one overall pick in 1998, which would have been Peyton Manning. but it would have taken my entire draft board, but I could have made the trade to move up to get Peyton Manning. In truth, I talked to Peyton and Archie about it.

That's all the details I can give you. I probably gave you too much already, closed quote. Jimmy Johnson with Peyton Manning in Miami, that would have probably worked too, because Miami was already a playoff team. They weren't a good team, but they were a 9-and-7-ish type of playoff team in Dan Marino's final.

you know, a couple of years there. So he would have, I think he would have had one year behind Marino and then he would have taken over. Can you imagine going Marino to, Marino to Peyton Manning? Marino to Manning. Well, let's remember, was Jimmy Johnson there when they blew their chance, when they let go of true brief? No, no.

Or was that Nick Saban? That was Nick Saban. Yeah, Jimmy was long gone at that point. Yeah. Okay, that was Nick. Timmy, I want to look this up because I do, how long was Jimmy Johnson in Miami? He took over for Shula. Shula's final year was 95 or 96, I think.

Jimmy Johnson takes over in Miami. Hold on. He took over in Miami in 96 as the GM and the head coach. So Shula's final year was 95. And he was only there for four years. and they, you know, they went 8 and 8, then they went 9 and 7, 10, and 6, 9 and 7, and they went to the playoffs,

three straight years as a wild card team. And then that was it. That was it. So he was only in Miami for four years. Was only in Dallas. I think people forget this. He was only the coach in Dallas for five years. Got two Super Bowls out of it, though.

Hell of a talent. evaluator, one of the greatest, you know, you could put them right up there at the top of the list of coaches who are also phenomenal talent evaluators and general managers. Up next, the NFC East, how many teams can actually legitimately win it? We'll discuss that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. I had Ross Tucker on the show yesterday, and I asked him a question about, you know, give me team that is sort of under the radar that you think is going to exceed expectations. And he said Philadelphia, the Eagles are going to be better than people think. And he gave me, he gave me reasons for

it. And he said, you know, Carson Wentz led the league in, you know, turnovers, interceptions, everything, sacks. And he didn't play the final four games of the year, which is really hard to do. It's because the offensive line was a mess. They were very injured last year along the offensive line. Remember the opener last year against Washington when Washington opened up the season with that win and they had like seven sacks in the game. Philadelphia had, you know, backups and backups to the backups all across the offensive line in that game. Well, I responded to him with the truth, and I think I said it on this podcast, you know, maybe a week ago. I believe Philadelphia and the Giants are both underrated as well. I've already played both of them on

overs for the season. I played the Eagles over 7 plus 120, and I played the Giants over 7 and a half. And I like both of those teams to potentially be better than they're over under numbers. I think they're talented teams. And so I did a segment today, and we could have taken calls for two hours on this, but we did it for 45 minutes, and I put it out as a Twitter poll at Kevin She and D. how many NFC East teams do you actually believe have a legitimate shot at winning the division title this year? Because I do have this sense, and I always have, that our fans, especially right now, are really dialed in to our team. And they've heard about Dallas, and they know Dallas is good, but they consider it to be a two-team race. They consider it to be Washington and Dallas, and like the Giants and Eagles are a major cut below.

those two. And I don't feel that way. I think any one of the four teams could win the division this year. There's no... I did not include the Eagles. And, you know, I answered your poll. I always try to support your poll. Thank you. On your show, but I had put three of the four. I did not put all four. Well, two was the leading answer, 37.2%. And that is, you know, a big portion of the Washington football fan base saying, well, it's us in Dallas. because the odds, the handicappers, have made Dallas a slight favorite over Washington, and then more in the distant long shots, the Giants and the Eagles. I'm just telling you, I believe that there's not one result,

there's not one division order in terms of top-to-bottom finish, one through four, that if you told me it ends up that way in January, that I'll be shocked at, not one. These teams, to me, are very close on paper. There are obviously a lot of question marks with every single one of these teams, Dallas defense, the Giants quarterback and offensive line, the Eagles certainly quarterback new coaching staff, Washington's still quarterback. And so everybody's got, you know, nobody's totally, nobody in this division looks like a 12 or 13 win team.

and Ross said, I see the division being jumbled up and everybody being between 7 and 10 wins. And I sort of see the same thing. I think any one of the four teams can win it. You think three, so you do not think Philadelphia can win it. But to be honest with you, I haven't given them much thought. I just, I'm going by when I saw them last year. Like, again, I'm dialed in to the Washington football team.

I know, as is our fan base. And that's why, you know, that's why if you're being objective and you know our team, you can say, look, last year, yeah, they won the division. But they played a ton of backup quarterbacks and even third string quarterbacks. And, you know, it was a terrible division, and they only won seven games. And it's the same thing like a Philadelphia team or fan can say about their team, because they watched every single play of every single game. And let me just give you a quick,

filly, you know, recap from last year. They were decimated along their offensive line. They played multiple quarterbacks, you know, during the course of the year. They have very good defensive talent. They have very good offensive line talent as well, if it's healthy, with Lane Johnson and Brandon Brooks back and Dillard and Kelsey. their defense, you could make the case that it's the second best defense in the division, but it's not that far behind Washington's defense with Barnett and Fletcher Cox and

Brandon Graham, and they added Eric Wilson and Anthony Harris to go with Darius Slay, etc. But here's the thing that I just want everybody to hear because I think when you think of Philadelphia, you're like, well, they got Jalen Hertz. They're not a threat to win the division. Well, Jalen Hertz last year, when he came in and played for the Eagles with very limited tools, playmaker-wise, with a banged-up offensive line, he played well. Jalen Hertz was pretty damn good. The first game he started, they beat New Orleans, one of the best defenses in the league.

In that game, in his very first start, they beat the Saints 24-21. He runs for 106 yards. He throws 17 to 30 for 16-17, 1 touchdown, no interceptions. He has one turnover in the game. It was a fumble on a run, but he rushed for over 106 yards. His next game, they go to Arizona. He lights the Cardinals up. They just couldn't stop the Cardinals.

They couldn't get the Cardinals off the Cardinals. field. He throws for 338 yards, three touchdowns, no interceptions, and he rushes for another 63 yards. See, I liked Jalen Hertz coming out of Alabama, Oklahoma. My one thing about Jalen Hertz is he's very casual with the football and he's going to turn it over. And he does. He does turn the ball over too much. But he's also a big-time playmaker. Like in that Arizona game, he had three fumbles but didn't lose any of them. But he rushed for 63 yards, threw for 338. Like, I cannot discount

the Philadelphia Eagles from being a contender in this division. I cannot dismiss the Giants as potential contenders in the division. I get that. I get that. I mean, I saw enough. of Daniel Jones and if Barclay is healthy to believe that the Giants will be formidable. But the Eagles, I just didn't see that coming. I don't think we ever see anything coming in the NFC East. I did this, you know, the NFC East hasn't had a division repeat winner since the Eagles

in 2004. And since 2004, there have been 16 division winners and 12 of them before this season. started were predicted to finish third or fourth in the division. Washington's three division wins, you know, going back to 2012, then 2015, then last year, they were picked last in the division each of those three seasons, and they won the division. And, you know, the interesting thing about the Eagles, what kind of shape both the teams going to be in when they play each other? We don't see the Eagles until December 19th. Really good point.

It's another fascinating part about this quirky NFL schedule this year. Not the 17th game at. And you played them twice. And you played them twice in three weeks. Yeah. With the Cowboys in between. The 17th game's been added, as we know. But just refreshing everybody's memory.

Washington plays the Giants in week two on September 16th and then doesn't play another division game until three months down the road. And then they finish the season, Cowboys Eagles, Cowboys Eagles, Giants, five straight division games. The Eagles in their schedule this year finish with Washington Giants, Washington Cowboys. The Cowboys finish their schedule this year with Washington. Giants, Washington, then they play the Cardinals, then they finish with the Eagles. The Giants schedule finishes with fewer division games, but still they go Cowboys, Eagles, Bears, Washington.

So basically from mid-December until the second week in January, you're just going to have all of these NFC East matchups. Now, the people that always say, you know, just, you know, you got to focus on the division. You got to have a winning record in the division. No, you have to have a winning record with the other 11 games you play. You play 11 against non-division teams, six in the division. You can go four and two in the division and end up in last place. But by the time you get to that point, unless, you know, teams get really injured or teams just aren't what we think, I think it's going to be all bunched up going into those final five.

weeks of the season. You'll have 11 weeks in. I mean, you might have something like six and five, six and five, five, and six, five and six going into those final five games. That wouldn't surprise me at all if we end up with that. And it could make for a really exciting month. With that said, the best teams in the NFC overall, the true Super Bowl contenders aren't in that division. It might be exciting for us. But the Packers, and the Buccaneers and the 49ers and the Rams at that point may already have, instead of six wins, they may already have 10 and headed towards home field games and a much better chance and a much better path to the Super Bowl. But who knows, it's an NFL season. Anything can happen. I just wanted

to make the point that I personally believe the NFC East is much more wide open than most people do. There isn't any team that I would, you know, that I would eliminate as a possibility of winning it. And the team that most people completely dismiss as a possibility, Philadelphia, I agree with Ross Tucker. I think they're underrated. And I think Jalen Hertz is a guy to watch. He makes plays. And he has played in a lot of big games during the course of his football career. And he He played well last year at the end of the year with a porous team around him. That team's healthier and it's better this year than it was last year around him. Now, if he stinks...

Now, the only thing about the Eagles is new coach. I was just going to say, now if he stinks or if the coach is really bad, Nick Siriani and his staff, well, I mean, you know, that would derail the rest of the roster, which is pretty damn good. They got a good roster. Their defense could be nasty this year. Really nasty. It's older than Washington's defense, more experienced, also older.

I mean, how many more great years of Fletcher Cox are we going to get? I mean, he is still, in my opinion, you know, a top five-ish kind of defensive player. You know, but he's got to be in his 30s at this point. certainly approaching it. Hold on. I'm going to tell you. He's 30 years old. Going to be 31 in the upcoming season. Well, in seven more years, he'll be as old as the Washington football quarterback. Right. But then in seven years, the Washington quarterback will be much older. Yes.

All right. Do you have anything else? I got two things I want to get to. Okay. One of them is, last night, Joe Banner, you followed Joe Banner, right? Yeah. Former Philadelphia general manager, right, in Cleveland. Yes. And I like Joe. I follow stuff. I like what he does.

He's been on the show before. I've had him on the podcast before. Okay. And he tweeted, what happens when you take our greatest sports writer and have him write a book about the most intriguing story, intriguing story in recent sports? sports history. You get a phenomenal book that every sports fan should read. Now, he's referring to a book by Seth Wickersham, who is a terrific reporter. Yeah. Called, It's Better to Be Feared. It's about the New England Patriots, and actually I would like to read this book. But I retweeted, I quoted his tweet with this on top of it, this is what happens with a picture of my book. the rise and fall of ECW. What?

Extreme Championship Wrestling. Oh, my God. This is what happens. And the pushback I got from people who refused to believe I wrote a book about wrestling was unbelievable. It's on Amazon. It's there for you to buy.

I didn't know you had written a book about wrestling. I wrote a book. In fact, I got paid more for that book and any other book I've ever written. Really? Yes. I got paid by the WWE for that book. Okay.

Yeah. All right. So for all you, we think I'm falling, the rise and fall of ECW, extreme championship wrestling, which I didn't know, even though I'm a wrestling guy from way back, I didn't know squad about ECW.

It was this literally extreme form of professional wrestling. that dominated the 1990s on TV. So there you go. When you take one of our greatest sports writers and have them write a book about the most intriguing of stories in recent sports history, what you get is you get a phenomenal book that every sports fan should read.

So I recommend the rise and fall of ECW written by one Tom Levero with extensive interviews, with Paul Hyman, Taz, Tommy Dreamer, and more. Paul Heyman. Paul Heyman. He was very interesting, interesting guys, spent hours on the phone with that guy. I had two books going at once back then. The other thing was, you know, our discussion, last podcast,

that you're going to come speak to my class that I teach on the business of sports media in Georgetown. you're going to talk to them about sports gambling. Yes. People suggested it could be a repeat of the Michael Scott going to speak to Ryan's class in the office. Well, I'll throw out $100,000 bars as part of it. And I'll tear up a book. That's the first thing I'll do. I'll see.

You got a textbook? Give me that textbook. me see that thing and i'll rip the pages out of it you know um the uh the scott's tots episode was on recently that's the only episode i have a really hard time watching i think that is the most cringe worthy episode of a sitcom of all time you know the episode i'm talking about when he goes back to that high school after promising those kids that he would pay for their college you know and we both love this show so much and I've seen you know I don't know I've probably watched

I've probably watched Office start to finish five times and seeing a lot of the episodes countless of times and that Scott's Totts episode and it was on the other day I can't I can't watch that I cannot watch that it's way you know

people say that the dinner party is cringeworthy the dinner party to me is the greatest sitcom episode I've ever watched it was cringy no doubt It's painful, but it was brilliantly written and brilliantly, you know, executed from an acting standpoint. But that Scott's Tots thing? I mean, God, those poor people in it going in that classroom. It's just too hard to watch. Too hard to watch. But anyway, have you gotten to Ted Lassow yet?

We know people who would have done that. No, listen. Okay. How many networks do I need? How many streaming services? do I need? Apple's easy. Why do I need it? I don't need it. So watch one sitcom? No. It's not Sopranos, so no. No, it's not the Sopranos. It's not a drama. It's a comedy. Is it the office?

No, it's not the office. It's really good, and people have actually compared it to the office because it's one of those comfort shows, I guess. It's a show that you can watch over and over again and feel good. I guess, I don't know. But it has been compared to the office, but no, I don't think it's anywhere near as good as the office. Oh, by the way, let me just tell this quick story. I was talking to Scott the other night, Scott Van Pelt, and he called me and we were talking and we're catching up.

And he just said, and I said to him, you know, I'm watching this show Ted Lassow in your in it. It was one of those episodes. It was an early episode in the show where Scott does a sports center hit, and it's a scripted sports center hit for the actual show itself. He's done a lot of those for movies and shows over the years. I can think of Moneyball. Now, I don't think he did anything that was scripted for Moneyball. I think they just took an actual Sports Center highlight that he read on the Oakland A's winning streak from Moneyball. But anyway, He said, yeah, of course, I know that I'm in that. They called me.

And actually, they called me because Jason Siddakis wanted me in the show. He wanted me to do the hit. And I've had conversations with him, and we text back and forth every once in a while, and he is a great dude. So I thought that was interesting. Sudecis is phenomenal playing Ted Lassau in this show. So there you go. That's good. but I have HBO Max, I have Amazon Prime, I have Netflix, I have Hulu.

At what point does my streaming bill become bigger than my cable bill, which is not the point? I don't know, I'm just telling you that this show on Apple TV is worth it. That's all I can tell you. I mean, do you have, do you have an iPhone? Can't, can you watch it on your iPhone? I don't know. You don't know. Stop going places you don't know anything.

Well, I mean, you have an iPhone. It's an Apple TV show, so maybe you can watch it on your phone. I don't know. I don't know. You know what? It's $4.99 a month for Apple TV. $4.99 a month. Oh, also, thanks to the person that sent me the information on Twitter,

and I'm sorry I don't have it in front of me, but you know who you are, who sent me the information about Rebecca on Ted Lasso that she was also on Game of Thrones. I didn't know that. I would have never put that connection together, but I appreciate that. Hannah Waddingham, I think, is her name in real life. She plays Rebecca, the owner, Tommy, of the football team that Jason Sudecassos, the Ted Lasso coaches. She played in Game of Thrones.

the woman who chants shame, shame, shame in the famous episode with Circey Lannister's walk of shame, she would eventually get it. I forget the character's name. I forget her name. She's the one dressed like a nun. She works for the high sparrow. And after Circe blows up the great sept in one of the great episodes of all time, the woman that plays Rebecca on Ted Lassau, who was still alive, is left to Sir Gregor. So that didn't work out very well for her. But I didn't realize they were one and the same. I don't know what the character's name was.

I know who she is on Game of Thrones. I can't remember what the actual name of that character is. But Hannah Waddingham is great as Reuters. Rebecca in this show, Ted Lassau. So there you go. Well, I got to say, that description makes me feel like there's a big void in my life. Well, there is. I've been telling you that for years.

There is. All right, are we done? I think so. All right. That's it for the day. I will be back tomorrow more likely than not. This week, because the game is on Friday night, I'm going to do a show on Saturday morning recapping the preseason game. And so I'll probably do a show on Friday as well. So there's a

chance I won't do a show tomorrow. But I'll keep you posted on that. All right, Tommy, have a good day. We'll reconvene together next week. All right, boss. All right, see you.