The Kevin Sheehan Show - NFL Draft To DC In '27?

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

Kevin today with a bunch of topics to start the show including the Washington Post story on DC's effort to land the 2027 NFL Draft. Also, Kevin recapped Brandon Aiyuk's comments on Ryan Clark's podcast last week on Jayden Daniels and a potential trade to Washington. Czabe jumped on with Kevin for the final two segments. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheen Show. Here's Kevin. Window Nation is the presenting sponsor of this podcast. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. If you've been thinking about new windows, I would just urge you to give them a shot. If you mention my name, you get a free in-home estimate so you've got nothing to lose.

86690 Nation or Windonation. Zab's going to be on this show today. Steve Zabin coming up in the next segment. It's been a while since we've had Zabe on the podcast. So he joins me in about 15 or so minutes. This from Xavier to start the show. Kevin, I wish your shows were longer. Just saying you're used to doing three hours of radio every day. Why not something close to that on the podcast? I can't get enough. It looks like suggestion box Monday was open and available to a lot of you because Ben writes, Kevin, I think your shorter shows are better than your longer shows. Right around 50 to 60 minutes makes sense. Leave them wanting more, I always say. Thank you, Xavier and Ben, for listening first and foremost. I appreciate it.

Xavier, no, man. Not that I wouldn't do six hours if that was the recommended. you know, length for a podcast. Look, Mike and the Mad Dog, the gold standard of sports talk radio shows for years, WFAN in New York. They did six hours of radio every day. They started at 1 p.m. They were off at 7 p.m. I guess if a Mets pregame show started at 6.30, they left 30 minutes early, and they didn't do six hours of content because of commercials. But still, one to 7 p.m. every day for, I don't know, a quarter century, something like that. Ben's closer to what the sweet spot is for a podcast like mine.

60 to 90 minutes is the recommended length of a podcast like mine. And when I say like mine, a podcast that is multi-topical, has a guest sometimes too. And I do try to make it 60 to 90 minutes. I know I'm not successful every day in doing that. Look, football season, Mondays after a game, I know there have been some doozies over the years. I mean, like two hours plus, I get it. But that's always for me a totally different show

than the other shows that we do. A post-game show, there's actually, and I'm not just saying this for the content that I'm providing, but anybody that does a post-game show, And I did the post-game show on radio for a few years and did the pre-game show for years. There is a real appetite for just a lot of content because there's a lot of passion around what, you know, the listener or the viewer just watched. But yeah, 60 to 90 minutes. I know I've had some podcasts here recently that have been longer than that, but I think I've had a few that have been shorter than that.

But that is the goal. By the way, let me give you a heads up. Zabe and I had not talked in a while, so we ended up doing about 60 minutes or so of a recorded conversation for the show today. And at the end of it, I decided, and you'll hear me say it at the end of Zabe today, that I'm going to save some of it for a show later in the week. Wednesday. So you're going to hear kind of Zabe Part 1 today and Zab Part 2 on Wednesday.

Many times when I record an interview before doing the podcast or even, you know, in proper chronological sequencing of the podcast, I will go back and edit to get that time to between 60 and 90 minutes. It just doesn't always make sense to edit it because sometimes the content's good enough and I want to leave it out there. Anyway, thank you, Ben. Thank you, Xavier so much for listening. And I do appreciate the suggestions, not just. from Ben and Xavier. So many of you give me ideas, some of which I incorporate, some of which I don't, but they're very helpful. And, you know, even the suggestions from Ben and Xavier just give me an

opportunity to kind of explain sometimes what I'm trying to do and why I'm trying to do it. Actually, I don't think I gave you a legitimate reason for 60 to 90 minutes being the sweet spot. other than that's what the podcast experts say is the sweet spot. But it kind of feels like that's the right amount of time. But anyway, thank you so much for listening. James Wood makes his major league debut tonight. Tommy and I will have a lot more on that on tomorrow's show. I will be watching tonight.

I think we've expected for a while that Wood would be called up before Dylan Cruz. Big Bat, 21 years old, big boy, 6-7, 240 or so pounds, hit 353 in the minors, 10 homers, 37 RBIs, an OPS of 1.058. The home run in RBI numbers would have been bigger. He was out for a while, but he's going to get the first shot here in the big leagues of their big two in terms of their positional players that people are excited. about seeing. And he was a part of that Soto trade back in August of 2022. He'll wear number 50. I have no idea where he'll hit tonight. If they're going to hit him in a spot that they hope to hit him in

in the future, it would be either third or cleanup, I would imagine, third or fourth. If it's to take the pressure off him here early, they might bat him sixth or seventh. I would imagine he'll play one of the corner outfield spots, left or right field. Looking forward to seeing James Wood tonight. Eddie Rosario sent down. He's been a disappointment. The Nats, by the way, now five games below 500. So they've had a rough stretch, losing five of their last six in the games against the Padres and the Rays over the weekend. By the way, Wood will face left-handed pitching in the first three, at least of the four games against the Mets. Some said last year that was a bit of an Achilles heel.

but he's improved this year. But he's going to face left-handed pitching here for the first three games. NBA Free Agency is underway. Wow, what a show. NBA Free Agency has been so far. The big one for sure was Paul George to the 76ers, four years, $200-plus million. Clay Thompson, it was just announced or reported by Woj,

going to Dallas on a three-year $50 million deal. Man, that makes me wonder about Steph Curry in Golden State. What's Steph Curry going to do at 35, 36 years old? Is he going to finish up in Golden State with a team that has no chance at contending in the Western Conference? By the way, I think Clay Thompson's a really good fit for Dallas. Paul George, by the way, the big deal to go to Philadelphia. look, the bottom line with the 76ers is they'll go as far as Joel Embed takes them, or Joel Embed's health takes them. If he's healthy, they're a contender for at all to beat

Boston in the East. I think Embed is a superstar. He is a top five player in this league when healthy. The problem is he hasn't been healthy. Paul George, you know, great defender, great score, great shooter. He's been hurt a bunch. Bottom. line is in the two spots he's been in or the spot he's going to and the spot he just left, the best players on the clippers and on the Sixers, not named Paul George. And he's going to be reliant on Joel Embed to stay healthy, just like he was reliant on Kauai Leonard staying healthy. And neither one of those two have been able to stay healthy. And by the way, Paul George has missed a lot of games during his career.

As far as the Wizards go, the Wizards did make one signing. They signed Valchus, Jonas Valenciunis to a three-year $30 million deal. I always liked Valchunis as kind of a super confident, sometimes overconfident, offensive player, more of a post player, loved him as a rebounder, had some really good years in particular in Toronto. By the way, right before they won the title. He actually, I think, got dealt during that title year. I may have that year off by a bit.

He may have been dealt the year before, but I think he was part of Toronto during the year in which they won the championship in 2019. But he's had some really good seasons. It's been a high percentage score and been a big-time rebounder. And I think this three-year $30 million deals kind of like the deal they gave Kuzma last year, not dollar-wise,

but it's like a deal built to trade him. Like this is part of the tanking process. They're going to trade them, but they're going to use them to kind of mentor and develop Alex Tsar, and then, you know, they'll get to a point where they can get some value back. It's like paying essentially for, you know, future draft picks. It's kind of what the wizards are doing in some of these deals. Because Kuzma is going to bring back a haul at some point. Valanchunus won't bring back the same hall, but he'll bring back something.

And look, they need a center because they're not going to throw Saur in there right from the beginning. A few more things to get to, and then we'll get to Zabe pretty quickly here in the show. The first of which is congratulations to Quincy Wilson, 16 years old, the youngest track and field Olympian in U.S. history. He of Bullis in Potomac tried to qualify for the 200-meet. Gators got close. He will be a part of the 4 by 400 Relay Group in Paris. Congratulations, Quincy Wilson. What a future he has ahead of him. Meantime, did you see this story? It just came out. Perhaps you haven't yet. But maybe by the time you're listening to this podcast, you've read

this story. Nikki Javala, Mark Maski of the Washington Post, reporting on the city's effort to land the 2027 NFL draft. It's called Project Breeze, and the Post was able to acquire information through the Freedom of Information Act, and the request through that Freedom of Information Act made to the National Park Service. There are some interesting things in here,

because I think we've all thought about, man, D.C. would be a great spot for the NFL draft, and I don't think they were ever going to do it with Dan Snyder as the owner. Late April, there are no cherry blossoms at that point, but we have the National Mall. There's a lot of incredible opportunity for a big event like the NFL draft. So here are some of the things that I found interesting from the story. The league, according to this proposal, would want the main stage for the draft to be on

4th Street between Madison and Jefferson drives. For most of you, just to give you a better, those of you that know the city, it's somewhere on 4th Street between the National Gallery of Art and the National Air and Space Museum. I would imagine the stage would be facing away from the Capitol, so the backdrop would be the Capitol. They don't write that in here. That's just my guess. There are a couple of other things in here that are interesting.

Among the litany of restrictions, Maski and Nikki write, on commercialization along the mall, merchandise sales are prohibited, and logos of draft sponsors would have to be no larger than a third the size of the NFL draft logos previously. Alcohol, while generally prohibited on the mall, may be allowed but only in an area designated by the National Park Service, and there are rules for concessions as well.

There are also weight and height restrictions for temporary structures in our city, and even time limits on those structures that block light for the grass. So it seems like on one hand it would be a great spot. On the other hand, for the league to deal with the city, it might be a bit of of a pain in the ass. Who knows? John Gruden, all right? Remember him of, you know,

the Vegas Raiders, the Oakland Raiders, the Vegas Raiders? Remember him of the emails with Bruce Allen? He lost his bid for the Nevada Supreme Court to reconsider whether a contract interference and conspiracy lawsuit that he filed against the NFL after he resigned. should be heard in court or in private arbitration.

And the only reason that this story is interesting to me is if this were to be heard in court or even in a private arbitration, there may be discovery, which is of course what the league is trying to avoid. And in that discovery, we as Washington football team fans might learn a lot more about guys like Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen. I know. It's time to move on from that. Lastly, this, and I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about it. I'm just going to play it for you.

This was Brandon Ayuk Friday on Ryan Clark's podcast called The Pivot. You're going to hear the questions from Ryan Clark. Fred Taylor was part of Ryan Clark's podcast on this day. they had Brandon Ayuk on. And there are three questions and three answers I am going to play for you. And I will briefly talk about it. But I know some of you are getting sick and tired of Brandon Ayuk discussion and even Jaden Daniels discussion, especially the glowing praise of Jaden Daniels. And there is more of that here. This is Brandon Ayuk on the Pivot Friday. Day. Back to ASU, did you see him being a number two overall pick with his abilities? Yeah, he was a, like, he was a true freshman coming in early and roly.

And we had guys on the team who were already, you know how it is, slated to be the next guy up or whatever, the quarterback at a big university. But I'll just, just from the, you could ask him a true story. I swear, from the first day I see him, I'm like, come on, let's go. Let's get in because I knew he was going to be the one to take me where I wanted to go. and that's exactly what he did. What does he do great? Lee actually loves the game. Nothing is more important than the game. Throwing the football, he can make every single throw on the field,

throw the ball down the field, throw the ball intermediate with time and pace, get the ball down when nothing else is there. Just a smart player, just a player that you want to have on your team for sure. If a trade happens and that place happens to be, Washington, how great would it be to reunite with someone you're not only close to from a field perspective, but in your personal life like Jaden, who is also that talented? I had one more meeting set up with the 49ers. We'll see how it goes. If it doesn't go in a direction in which we all hope for it to go, and it would be great. It would be great to link up with

a great friend of mine, I'm a brother, great person, teammate, and a player that I feel could take my game to the next level. You had to guess. We're going to say guess right now. What uniform is Brandon Ayuk wearing in 2024? If I were to take a guess, probably a nine-er uniform. Probably a nine-er uniform. I mean, if not a nine-er uniform, probably.

a Washington commander uniform, if not a Washington commander uniform, probably a Steelers uniform. In summary, Brandon Ayuk just told you that Jaden Daniels' best attribute is his leadership. He then said he's got one more meeting with the 49ers and will, quote, see how it goes, closed quote, before essentially saying that he'd love to get traded to Washington. And then he laid out the odds for where he'll play in 2024, listing his current team, the 49. as the favorite, followed by Washington and then Pittsburgh. First of all, let me just say this. I think Brandon Ayuk's talking too much.

Beyond that, the 49ers would be nuts to trade him. They're too close to winning a Super Bowl, and their chances of winning one with him are much better than without him. Certainly, if I'm a 49ers fan, I don't want my team to trade Brandon Ayyuk for a second and a conditional, you know, fourth, fifth. No thank you. I would say 75% San Francisco, 15% Washington, 10% somewhere else. The only reason I'm not higher than that on San Francisco, and that's still pretty high,

is that I just wonder whether or not the 49ers are getting sick of this, and maybe they're trying to create some leverage by talking about, you know, how much they want him back. They don't have much leverage right now. I mean, when I say that in a trade, they can keep Brandon Ayyuk and make him play on this fifth year option at 14 plus million. They can franchise him next year if they wanted to. I think he's a 49er in 2024. If he isn't and if it really got around to them trading Brandon Ayyuk and what they've been trying to do somehow by saying how much they want them, which is what, you know, the reports were last week, create some sort of leverage.

They don't have leverage. They just don't have it right now with a team like Washington anyway who is not urgently trying to trade for Brandon Ayyuk. I do believe that Washington should be interested in Brandon Ayuk if he is available. Steve Zabin next after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, guys, the NBA finals are over, but we've got a summer of baseball ahead of us.

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Jumping on with me right now is my friend Steve Zabin, who has not been on this show in a long time. It's been a while since I've had you on. Zabe, of course, has the Zabe cast, which is a podcast that he's hosted for a long time. You can get that anywhere you get a podcast. He's also the host of the show that he does in Milwaukee, 973 the game called the Steve Zabin Show.

I think it's still called the Steve Zabin Show. Technically, it's not, and how are you, buddy? Good to talk to you. Yeah, what's interesting is that about a year ago, we kind of shuffled the lineup of talent at the station. And we added, to my show, we added a former Wisconsin basketball player by the name of Brian Bush,

who you being a big basketball head, probably remembered. Yeah. And Butch he's a great dude He's a bit of a knucklehead I call him basketball grong At times because that's kind of how he comes off But he's definitely very smart And so he was adamant

That he wanted his name on the show So I said okay fine Zayb and Butch in the morning Now some people would have been like Fighting tooth and nail like I'm not giving that up But I've been in this business long enough As you have Kevin That I'm like it don't fucking matter

You know what If you end up being a good addition to the show, which he has, the name doesn't matter. But thank you for asking. So technically, it's Dave and Butch in the morning. Yeah, I agree with you, but I'm curious, had he ever done radio before, or was this his first gig?

No, no, he had done another radio morning show in Appleton. Okay, got it. Okay. But he's got his fingers in a lot of things. He's right now killing it doing basketball camps in Wisconsin, in the summer. Yeah. You being also,

your basketball, your kids play and you love it and everything. It's like these camps make big money because these parents, they just want to get their kids off their hands for four hours a day. You know, so it's like, here, take them.

And if they learn how to do a drop step in the meantime, all the better. But the bottom line is they're not, you know, they're not in mom and dad's hands. Look, any business that you can create

that, especially in more affluent areas, where you can help parents with their kids get better at whatever they think they're going to get a college scholarship doing. And I would add to that, anything pet-related, it's usually a home run on both ends. Yeah, no, you're right about that. And nothing against, you know, affluence of urban white kids wanting to get better at their sport. but man, it's a sinkhole of money that produces very little in professional return. Oh, yeah.

I witnessed. And someone argued that the AAU phenomenon has resulted in these NBA drafts like we just saw being 50% foreigners with no let-up in sight. Do you have a take on that? Yeah. I mean, I think we were talking last week. Tommy and I were. I think 27% of the NBA now is foreign-born players and it's climbing. And there is a lot that AAU basketball has done to hurt the number of Americans

that are advancing beyond college and into the NBA. I think it's a very complex conversation because on one hand, I personally think college basketball, just like college football, should be the setting for players to get better and become more NBA ready. And yet the foreign-born players are essentially starting to play professionally when they're 14, 15, and 16 years old. But that's also in part because college sports don't mean anything in the rest of the world. I mean, the rest of the world laughs at the amount of attention we pay to college sports.

They just don't get it. Right. Yeah, no, you're right about that. And also, there's nationally supported academies in Europe. Exactly. Where they train kids at a very young age, which were slow to take up on. But I think they're starting to more of these national academies in the States. But I was also told that they only play one or two games a week in Europe, and the rest is practice. Yeah. Well, that's completely opposite of the AAU model, which is to just play games, games, games, games. And then it's like buckets, it's like crabs in a bucket, trying to claw their way out,

play the most selfish basketball you've ever seen. And you wonder why Johnny has no concept of a motion offense. Well, I mean, basketball has become, you know, at all levels now. And it's the part of the game that I hate. And I think it's one reason why in the NBA, you actually have. haven't seen yet a pure ISO team or two-man team actually win the whole thing. Dallas was pure ISO or two-man. Now, Boston was a big ISO and two-man team, too, but they were much more inclusive of the other players offensively. The ball moved from one side to the other a lot more

than it did for Dallas. It's just terrible. It's a terrible watch when you see Luca come down and they seek out the defender they want to switch. And then three to four other players just stand there. And by the way, defensively, Zabe, and you know basketball. Also, it's sit around and watch essentially until Luca, you know, starts to collapse and start to help. And if you're a good defensive team like Boston that doesn't need to help, that was the big problem Dallas had.

Every other team they played needed to help when Lucas started to play. make, where Kyrie started to play make, but Boston didn't. And it just is physically draining to play basketball that way offensively. You know, to constantly be trying

to score without the ball moving and without the defense moving. But anyway. Yeah, it's poach, it's poach and shoot and if you're not hitting them, just shoot some more. Get more ammunition. Exactly. Poach on that defensive liability and shoot away.

But here's the question, is there any remedy for it? Is there any fix? Is there any way you could tweak it to make basketball more inclusive of all five guys on the floor? Well, I mean, there are teams. I mean, Indiana really, you know, moves the basketball and watching, you know, this past postseason. There are teams. And, you know, it's funny, when Golden State was winning all of those years, people would say, oh, my God, they're such a great defensive team.

And statistically, they would rank very high. But what it was more than anything else is they made teams work so hard defensively because they played basically five-man offensive basketball most of the time that they were easier to defend on the other end because Steph Curry is not a good defender. I mean, Draymond is, Clay, you know, obviously was, but their numbers defensively... Yeah, he's got good hands, but that's about it. Yeah, but their numbers were so good defensively because of what they were offensively. I mean, John Wooden essentially never practiced defensive basketball because he said,

if we run our offense in practice the way I want us to run our offense, will be good enough defensively. Anyway, I was going to mention to you, as you talked about Brian Butch and wanting his name on the show. You reminded me of when Cooley and I, when Cooley went. to mornings with me at the station. You know, the people at Redskins Park, including some people in their PR department, whose names shall remain quiet on this one.

But they had all of these ideas for names for the show, and they were all coolie, this, coolly that, the whole thing. And one of them was, they were hell-bent on the show being called Coffee with Coolly. to which CJ said that's a terrible name, A, and Coolly said, no chance. Kevin's name is on this show, too. By the way, he was in town with me all last weekend.

Not this past weekend, a week ago he came into town. How is the cool dog? I miss that guy. We had a great time. I actually thought about calling you, but his schedule was so tight. We played a couple of times. And there were some late nights, late dinners. But he was in town for one of those card signing shows.

We had a great time. He's doing really well. And, yeah. But yeah, coffee with Cooley. And he would. Well, yeah. These ideas are from Pennheads in management who have no clue what makes for a good radio show. Would have no ability to put one out once.

much less over and over and over again for weeks and months and years of the time. But they can sit around thinking a cut team name, and they think, oh, coffee with cooling. There's alliteration. It has the football player's name in it. Gold, Jerry. It's gold. Let's go with it. But it doesn't do anything for the listener.

The listener is going to listen if the stuff coming out of the speakers is good, and it's good tomorrow. And it's even better the next day. and you have to build it. It's not a name. Nobody tunes into a show for a name. No, they don't. You didn't think the Man Cave was a really good name? The Man Cave both had a terrible name

and had a terribly assembled cast of people on it. Not that the people themselves were bad, but it was a terrible mishmash of quote-unquote talent. As predictably, as many of us saw it failing. Yes, we tried to help them with that if my memory serves me correctly. All right, I'm going to read. Who did? Who tried to help?

Before it got started, I think you, me, Andy, and a few others said, this is a terrible idea. Oh, yeah. Don't do it. I didn't try to help the actual people on the Man Cave because I don't, I respect other people that have their shows and are talent to do what they feel like they need to do to be successful. But no, I knew it was not going to work, and I did voice that to management.

I said, this is a disaster. But, you know, they weren't asking me, and they weren't going to listen anyway. I think I'll never forget. Anthony Ferm, who would be a sales guy? Anthony. Anthony, Bernie. Bernie, yeah, yeah. Yeah, great guy, very sharp guy, one of the sharper sales guys that ever come across in the biz.

I remember him, he stomped, boss. my office as the Man Cave was doing the thing on the speakers in the hallway, sees that I'm in my office early that day, opt abruptly pivots, leans back into the open door of my office, points up frantically at the speaker in the ceiling with a look of exasperation and says, tell me this is going to get better. Tell me this show will get better. And I looked at it and I said, Tony, it's not. I'm sorry. You have to find somebody else to tell you a pretty story. That pivoted without saying another word, tip and down the hallway. I think you resigned three months later. Well, look, I mean, there's so much to all of that. And of course, it'll come out in Andy's book.

It'll be a chapter in Andy's book when he writes the 980 book. But it was actually a terrible position that the guy's on the show. show were put in because they had never the point was they had never done radio before and they were asked to host a four hour morning drive show without somebody that had

been in radio and I remember saying and I think it was with you or Andy or somebody just put them on you know if you really are hell bent on doing this try them out on like a Saturday afternoon from like

two to four for three months to see if they can do it. Right. But no, anyway, I wanted to read this to you. This came from Sam to me this morning. You said, Kevin, I know you used to love tennis. Why not more tennis talk with Wimbledon starting on Monday? These are the dog days of summer, and there's only so much Jaden Daniels that we can take.

So I'll ask you. I'm glad he wrote that email because I would remember when you would be all into the tennis. Right. Yes, you remember. You named your fantasy football teams after random tennis players. Very great memory. What happened? Great memory.

So my question to you, and I did this this morning on radio and took calls, what's the thing that you used to love sports-wise or a sporting event that you no longer care about at all? Because I don't give a shit about tennis. I was into Serena and I would watch her matches. And look, if the final and Wimbledon in two weeks is on on a Sunday morning and I'm home, I'll turn it on. But tennis for me is the one. I've just lost complete interest in it. Is there an event or a sport that stands out for you as something that is no longer important?

Well, funny you should mention, so the NBA draft, I used to love that because I was, able to remember and know every player who would be in the first round because they played in college usually two, three, at least, at least two, maybe three or four years. And so they were known entities. There was like one foreigner, right, per first round draft in the NBA back in the 80s and early 90s. And I used to love, remember the old script NBA baseball hat that had announcements made a comeback, very identifiable script lettering that had the team nickname on it.

Love those. Yeah. So I'm not saying that I would rent a bunch of banquet chairs and balloons like Newman in Seinfelds for Newman and hold a party for the draft. But it was like a big deal.

I can't wait. MBA draft. Let's see where these guys that you know and like some of them, some of them you don't like in college are going to go on the pros. Now it's like, Good grief. You don't know any of these guys. If you do, then you need to really get a hobby.

So that's kind of one that I very much cooled on. I don't know if there's anything I love Chey and that I just do or care for anymore. In sports, you start, I think it's to get older. I know this from personal experience. You narrow the focus on, okay, look, I'm going to really give a shit about the NFL, college football, college basketball, but not until football's over now, and then golf. And that's basically it. Like if I had my brothers, that would be my entire sports diet if I weren't in the business.

Yeah, I think mine's been so narrowed too. It's the NFL, it's college football. It's golf. You know, because, I mean, you love it much more than I do, but when it's on, I'm watching it. And I would watch more Stanley Cup playoff, even though the capitals were not a factor, because I do love watching hockey. But here's what is weird is that everything I do gets filtered through the, am I going to be able to repurpose this on my show or on my podcast? Exactly. And just sitting down for three hours watching Stars versus Leaps is not going to return anything in terms of I can really,

go on a rant about this tomorrow so often not watch it. So once I retire from this wonderful career of mine, and I can just choose to watch whatever I want for entertainment, I probably will watch more hockey because it's a bit of an indulgence at this point. Does that make any sense? It does. Now, that wouldn't be my indulgence, but I appreciate that it's yours, but you're 100% right. Hockey is like sushi. If you like it, you probably love it. You probably love it. love it, and if you don't, it's disgusting to you. I call it a sports delicacy where either you're super into it or you think it's disgusting. See, I think hockey, well, look, you know I love basketball, but I don't really consume the NBA regular season anymore. I love the NBA playoffs,

and this last playoff, you know, two-month adventure was not very adventurous. It sucked. But I... You didn't think Dallas was fun? I know you don't like their style of basketball, but you didn't think those series were interesting? I thought actually the most memorable moments involved the Knicks, you know, against the 76ers and against the Pacers, and I think the Lakers Nugget series was great.

Luca, for me, during this postseason, it finally came to a head in game three. And not that I was the only one screaming about it, because everybody that watches the NBA knows he might be on the Mount Rushmore of the biggest whiners in the history of sports. And I thought, and I've thought this all along with Luca that it's detrimental, not only to him but to his team. And it's really painful to watch it. There's nobody, as my producer Denton said at one point during the playoffs, he goes, I don't think. I think I've ever watched a player that's more committed on a nightly basis for 48 minutes to bitching and complaining.

And we've seen some, you know, LeBron and Rashid Wallace and we can go through the list. But Luca, every shot attempt, whether it goes in or doesn't go in, it's theater after that and really painful theater. And when he got ripped for it after game three. If you notice, game four and game five, he kept his mouth shut. Now, you know, they blew him out in game four, and then they got blown out in game five. But I think the public attention to it. Yeah.

Yeah. Don't forget game three, he commits the dumbest sixth foul in the history of basketball. It was bad. Trying to draw charge will not even set 25 feet from the basket where you're not going to get that called, no matter where you are, home or away. It's ridiculous. Then on the floor, on his ass within a second, screams at his own bench, you better fucking challenge that. So then Jason kids compelled to waste a challenge on a call they know it's not going to go their way.

And he's out of the game. And the Kudagra was Brian Windhorst delivering absolute, you know, just roasted him, but professionally. Yes. With all due respect, and it landed so hard that Luca actually took it to heart. and I gained a lot of respect for Winnhorses in that moment, although he would never say that about his boy LeBron. Yeah, it's funny about Windhorst, or as they refer to him, Wendy. You know, they're all nicknames there, Wendy and Greenie, and I can't even,

I don't even know him all. He tries me nuts. At least my boy is steered clear of all the nicknames when these guys are on the show. But I actually thought, and I think, Windy does, Windhorst does a good job. I think the LeBron stuff was insufferable. I don't know he did a good job, but I really respected how well he articulated that moment in time for an NBA superstar and did it without it crossing the line into being personal like a vendetta. Yes. He's kind of compromised because, you know, his access to LeBron is what landed him where he's at.

Yeah. You know, and I'm not saying that he's not good at his job. I'm just saying there's a lot of people good at their job. that could be on that rarefied air of the ESPN set. He's there because of his relationship with LeBron. So while he may not be reporting on LeBron and LeBron stuff, dishonestly, you're not getting the full-bore Windhorst that you possibly could because he's got to be selected to keep that access.

Yeah, I think that Windhorst for me, and in recent years, what I recognize about him is that I think there is a, fearlessness to the way he goes about it. The LeBron stuff, I'm with you. It used to drive me nuts. But I also think he's one of those few sort of reporters that actually knows the game. I don't know why he knows the game, but when I listen to him, I think he understands the game. Maybe he coached it. He certainly doesn't look like he ever played it necessarily. You think he knows the game itself, the bouncing of the orange pumpkin. Better than his colleague.

like say Shams or Woj. Look, I think a lot of the guys in basketball on that network and on the cover. Like, Tim, it's impossible to watch that pregame, midgame, postgame on ESPN ABC. Well, wait, the halftime show is easy to watch, Sheehan, because it's only 30 seconds. That's true. They were out of my ad. Yeah. But, I mean, to me, if they're.

it's not Legler or Stan Van Gundy that takes that reddick chair, then, you know, it's hard to watch. Like, you need people who understand and can analyze basketball and know the X's and O's. Nobody on that set knows the X's and O's. I actually think Windhorst is just one of those guys that understands basketball a little bit. I'm not saying it's great, but a lot of those guys don't know anything when you listen to them about actually what they're watching, but they're great storytellers or they know the people and they've got the contacts. You know how that goes. I mean, Will Bond has known these people in this league forever.

He doesn't need to really know the game. But anyway. The league, though, I'll give it this. It is the best drama league between games and off the court going, just short of the NFL. I mean, it really is Game of Thrones and the sort of the partnerships and the maneuvering and the agendas. I mean, it's a great gossip league. And the ESPN leans into that for sure. But it's like these teams that are trying to get better now that free agency has begun and trades are happening.

It's so sad just scraping for like, you know, a backup four who can be a rim protector and then throwing a ton of money at them. Of course, yeah, your wizards, you know, big coup in getting Valanchunas, it turned down a lot of suitors that were contenders to go to the wizard. Why? Because money is money. Yeah, and that's, they're doing it the right way right now. It's painful to watch. It sucks that the league, you know, essentially dictates that you have to do this to have any chance when you're a Washington, right?

You've got to tear it down. You've got to tank it. you've got to accumulate picks. Oh, you've got a tank hard. You've got a tank hard. Oklahoma City is providing that blueprint. Now it helps to have a blockbuster for one guy like they had for Paul George. Yeah.

And a little bit lucky because SGA was not supposed to be this good, but it turned out to be better than people thought. Yeah, they didn't. And they've combined that. And they've got picks, OKC, stretching as far into the few. As you can see, they're like planes at night, lambing at O'Hare. They're just one after another after another, which you've got to admire. But, man, it is a painful build.

It's interesting, actually, because I had somebody on this morning from USA Today, Jeff Zilgit, and we were talking about OKC, and he said with all of those picks and what they have, the next, you know, either mini-dynastie or dynasty could be Oklahoma City. because, you know, we've had this stretch, Zabe, five years in a row of not having a repeat champion, not even having a team from the previous years NBA finals coming back to it. It's totally different the last five years than the previous 40 in the NBA. There's no – and I wonder if that's good for the game.

I think it's better in that sport to have the dynastic sort of run. and if it is Oklahoma City that's up next, what will that look like being the smallest of markets to ever be in that position? I don't know. I hear you on the NBA being a great soap opera, great drama, Game of Thrones kind of, you know, set up. I just like the games. I don't like the rest of it.

The draft is the worst of all of the drafts. This period free agency, like you said, it's like you're throwing hundreds of millions of. millions at a guy that might end up being your fourth or fifth best player. It's crazy. Isaiah Hartstein is going to get like $85 million. It's insane. I mean, holy shit. Good for him. He just won the lottery, but wow. All right. We'll take a quick break. More with Zabe right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree.

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Subscribing to the podcast is appreciated, and following the podcast, again, specifically on Apple and Spotify, is a big help. We continue with Zabe, and I'm assuming that you've spent some time on the following subject, and that subject is Caitlin Clark. And Caitlin Clark being left off of the Olympic team, what did you make of it? What have you said about it? As I said it succinctly, the league showed their whole ass right then and right there. Dumbest thing ever. And people took exception to me saying, hey, the Olympics are an exhibition. Then not just your best players, but also your most popular players.

It's important. People went nuts going. how can you call it an exhibition? I said because there's no money involved. If it's a money league, it's a pro league, it's for money. This is an exhibition. Now, I'm not saying it's not legitimate or it's not placed high up in the pantheon of, you know, competitions, but it's still an exhibition,

just like the Ryder Cup is an exhibition. Okay? So the Olympics are an exhibition. And when you're going to win the Olympics, walking away like the women are going to, then of course you have the luxury to take a popular player who could help further your sport and bring more eyeball. But it quickly devolved into, well, she's going to bring her fans, not our fans. So are those your fans or are those our fans?

And it's such a zero-sum game, idiotic way of thinking. Fans are fans, eyes are eyes, and the dollars are green, no matter where they come from. Put her on the team. Besides, Diana Tarazi made the team and she's what? 42. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you.

I think I'm not totally with you on the exhibition in... You know, I know. That word does not sit well with people, but it's... I believe non-money competitions are exhibition. They're played for fun and for the promotion of the sport. leagues and games that are played for money are professional sports. It's just so silly, given the state of women's basketball in this country and this boost, this incredible thing that showed up about a year and a half ago,

and you should be trying to leverage her from, you know, to the moon. And just the amount of revenue they would have generated with. the sale of her Olympic jersey alone would have been a reason to put her on the team. It's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. I know. It would have been a reason to put her on the team, and it would have also been the most divisive thing for many of the other players. But that's where the business people have to say, yes, sorry,

but you've been funded by the NBA for 27 years. And if you'd like to not have to have that second job in Europe five years from now, we're going to do it the grown-up way. Right. Right. Remember what Brittany Greiner was put in jail in Russia? She had an ounce of weed. Well, she was there for one reason. She had to play basketball there to actually earn a living in addition to the WNBA. The greatest line that showed the kind of they don't get an aspect of this by much of the gals in the league was one of the players said to a source, well, we feel like we've built this after 27 years. And people were quick to go,

built what? Exactly. You lost money every year. You haven't built anything but a money drain for your sugar in headily, the NBA. Stop it with it. We've built this. Yeah, it was a charitable venture by the NBA, basically. I mean, if you do the math.

The Taylor can't lift it to profitability because she's only one person. Now, the larger question that I want to ask you, because I know you watch it and see it, But, and I'm not sure where I come down on there. People are doing cut-up videos of all of the dropped passes from Caitlin Clark to players on breaking layups. And I don't quite know she in it. Is that just some bad butterhands by our teammates? Or is Caitlin Clark trying to gloatter it just a bit much with some of these passes? because she'll fling it on a lead path, three-quarters court if needed.

I will tell you, I've watched, you know, I've watched her a lot, but I haven't watched every game or every minute from every Indiana game. To her teammates drop too many paths. But I would say definitely it's much more that. She's not, she has such great feel for the game, the anticipation. She's, you know, she's bird, she's magic. She sees it. you know, a half step before everybody else does.

And from what it would appear, and I think others have said this, she just doesn't have, you know, a great supporting cast at this point. By the way, on Merritt alone, she's not that far off, I don't think. How could she be? She averages, she's like in the upper echelon on points, three-pointers, assists. You mean for the Olympic team? Yeah, for the Olympic team. It's not like she'd be a...

Charity case. I know. She's right on the cusp of it. I think, you know, a lot of these passes she's throwing, part of me says, okay, well, not all these is going to get you through a half-court skip pass that was one feet off the deck to a cutter under the basket. Men, women, whoever you're playing with, they're not always going to be able to scoop that up with the softest of hand.

Also, I think there might be some adjustments where, Some of our teammates that are cutting down the court on fast breaks now need to know this pass could be coming at any time when they didn't used to have a player or a point guard that was given those fast. Well, I mean, what the Lakers said when Magic first came into the league is you have, it was I remember the discussion. It was like, you have to be ready. And if you are open, you better be ready because he knows you're open and he knows you're open before you know you're going to be open. So be ready to catch it, and it took him a little while, and then all of a sudden, you know, you saw them, you saw it happen. Yeah, you know that highlight of magic as he's coming down the court with a ball, and he takes this one big, really high dribble, like a high dribble up to his frickin nose. And double.

And he looks the other way and then throws this 30-foot bounce pad in traffic. That's, like, sick. I'm like, that might be my favorite magic highlight. Yeah, I thought you were going to give me the one where he actually. he looks the other way on a high dribble and double, like he taps it and then takes it and actually passes it. It's like a tap in one direction and then it's a pass. He's up there for me. As a PSA, as a PSA to our younger listeners right now, go to YouTube and watch the first three years highlight of two guys, Jordan and Magic.

and you will see shit that makes you go, oh, wow. Just get that early, you know, unlike sitcoms, who usually their early seasons are complete shit, you know? Yeah. The early seasons of superstars, like Jordan and Magic, are even more spectacular in retrospect, from what you kind of come to see and know of their later prime of their career. Not that they were bad in their prime.

It's just the early shit is really good. So with my boys are the two of the three boys that are huge sports fans and huge basketball fans. They're constantly sending me stuff and I'm constantly trying to be a good father and make them aware of what they've missed during their life. And do you know the player that by far and away gets the biggest reaction from them? Because my boys, like a lot of boys their age and young men, are like, come on. I mean, and by the way, I'm also now to the point where I've got to tell Tommy, Tommy, no offense, but the 62 Celtics would lose to DeMath's JV by 30 points. I mean, it's just... Oh, my gosh.

Is Leverro still clinging like Andy does? Oh, yeah. They actually, they just, I don't think they understand the evolution part of it. And it's such a silly argument anyway, because those teams, like, I still think the 86 Celtics are the greatest. team I've ever seen, but you have to put it in the context of the year and the era they were playing in. But here's the player. Bias highlights my boys go nuts on, but Dominique Wilkins, his highlight reel of dunks, this is equivalent, if not in some cases, even greater than what you see today. When you watch the way Dominic got, his head is above the rim in 1980s in

1986 on these dunks. It's a big to being an unbelievable high flyer. He threw the ball down with violence. So violent. And he could hang forever. And that's the one where they're like,

because whenever something pops up, I'll send it and I'll just say, this is the guy you liked it. I agree with you. And they're just like, my God, that guy was an athlete. And by the way, I've always felt this way. was never going to be the next Jordan.

The comp for bias was Dominique. Bias was a forward. He wasn't a two guard. He was a small forward. Jordan was a guard, and Bias never handled the ball well enough to be, you know, what Jordan was. But he would have been a Wilkins highlight reel

because his head was above the rim too, and he tried to drill a hole in the floor when he dunked it. Yeah. And as far as the games and the athletes evolving, take Dominique Wilkins and then say to Lovie, so when Coozy was playing, why did anyone just do this that Dominique is doing? Could they? Did they just think it wasn't sporting to have a 42-inch vertical and throw down dung? Or maybe it was because the state of the art of the athlete was not where it is today.

Hell, the crossover dribble and the through the legs crossover weren't even a thing until I want to say maybe Pearl Washington in 1983. So, yeah. Do you know it really pisses Lovie off? And I had to do it again to him a few weeks ago. A couple of years ago, I just found like game seven of – I think it was 62. The 62 NBA finals, Jerry West played in the game. And I said, Tommy, none of these guys could triple with their offhand. I mean, and Jerry West, I understand he's the logo, and God bless him, the greatest executive maybe ever in the history of the game.

And I understand his greatness as a score and a shooter, and if there had been a three point line, etc. But you watch, and it's almost like, well, he's going to go right and he's partly because he can't go left. And to your point, crossover dribbles and stepbacks and no, it's, when I'm, say demath is j or pv i's jv would probably beat the 62 celtics i'm not actually exaggerating it's not for effect i think it's probably true a pv i's uh team this year paul the six team is one of the best high school teams i've ever watched they had four you know five star guys on the team and like four three star guys on the team and the games played not you know above the rim it's played near the of the backboard.

That's an exaggeration. But yeah. Well, no, but yeah, but I mean, it's like back in the day, the best basketball players in the team were Johnny and Timmy, and Johnny and Timmy also played baseball, and they also played football. And they didn't go on travel teams. They didn't have trainers.

And they didn't dream of being in the NBA. They just played the sports they were good at. And then luck would have it. They'd filter up through the ranks and they'd make the pros. Now, Johnny and Timmy love basketball, watch all their favorite players and all their moves and mimic their moves on the playground in their basement on their little tight soup and you know they get training when they're nine years old and they go on special select teams with special coaching so the state of the art and the focus the maniacal focus from a super early age to become a pro is unlike anything that used to exist when we were growing up so true and you know part of what you're alluding to is just this focus on one sport versus playing lots of different sports, which I've always felt is incredibly helpful to the one sport that they're really focused on

and really good at. And just everything kind of being scheduled and regimented. Yeah, it's so different. I mean, hell, I mean, we're kind of part of the problem. You know, as parents I am, I know that. I mean, when my kids were younger, we scheduled play dates for crying out loud. they still do that. You mean general play dates?

Yeah, they had scheduled play dates. For me, here's a basketball, be home by dinner. Oh, right. Right. And you just figured it out. Mom and Dad's schedule. Right. When we were growing up, it was go walk over to your buddy's house and knock on the door

and ask, is Johnny home? And if he was, okay, cool. Let's go outside and find something to do. Exactly. If he wasn't home, you slunk your shoulders and you walked away going, oh, that sucks. Or Johnny's crowded. He didn't do his homework. Oh, fuck.

Well, we can't play three on three then. Right. We had a wiffle ball game scheduled. He can't play in that. And we were going to go throw, we were going to go throw crab apples at cars. Of course, we didn't tell Johnny's mom that. Fuck, no. That was a great sport, by the way, crap.

Oh, yeah. All right. Two more things for you. Actually, what we're going to do is we're going to save those final two topics with Zabe until Wednesday's show. We went a little long in our conversation, and it makes more sense to kind of cut it into two different shows. I'd play it on tomorrow's show, but Tommy's on tomorrow's show. So I will save what he said about Jaden Daniels and the football team and a couple of other subjects. I think it actually developed into for Wednesday's show.

Always great to catch up with Zabe and more to come on Wednesday. That is it for the day today, back tomorrow with Tommy.