The Kevin Sheehan Show - No Chase Option + Smoot On Draft

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

Kevin today with Sam Fortier/Washington Post to start on the Commanders' decision to not exercise the 5th year option on Chase Young. The guys talked a ton of NFL Draft as well. The incomparable Fred Smoot jumped on and talked about his memories of being drafted here in DC and then talked about his 5 "unicorns" in the NFL Draft. There was an Anthony Richardson/Washington report from Albert Breer. Wait until you hear what Smoot thinks Washington should be willing to do for Richardson.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Don't forget to rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify. That's a big help. And follow us on Apple and Spotify as well. If you're not a follower of this podcast, that is helpful as well. Two guests on the show today, one of whom I'm going to start with here at the top, and that is Sam Fortier, who is one of my favorites. Sam covers the team for the Washington Post. Fred Smoot will do some draft discussion with us after that. Very light today, I promise you, on the NBA conversation because we are a day within the draft. And we've got breaking news here as we are recording the podcast just about an hour and a half ago, Nikki Javala from the Washington Post reported that Washington will not pick up the fifth year option for Chase Young.

So with that, let's bring in Sam. Sam does such a great job covering the team. You can follow Sam on Twitter at Sam, the number. 4 TR. I'll just start with your reaction. I don't think it was that unexpected. You know, certainly in the last few weeks or last few months would have been very unexpected a year ago. But your reaction, Sam, to the team not picking up Chase Young's option. Yeah, I think like you said, it's been expected. I think there's a lot of factors here. I think one is production. I think that's the most clear one. He has not proven that he can

be a consistent game-wrecking force like you hope you were getting with the number two overall pick. His statistical line, actually, Kevin, let me ask you this. Do you know who Michael Dana is? I didn't before I read your story a week ago, and I used it on the radio show, maybe even on the podcast. He is the guy that essentially is ranked right where Chase Young is in the league in terms of pressures in the last two seasons.

Yeah, in terms of edge rusher production. that is almost over an identical number of pass rushing snap. 768 per day and a 771 for Chase. So it's not like the injury, you know, really played a huge role there. It's just that Chase Young has not produced. I think the other part of this is some stuff that we've heard that Ron has mentioned before. I think, you know, there's concern about maturity, commitment.

You know, is he motivated. And I think, you know, I think one of the plays here is if Ron Rivera feels that that Chase Young is primarily motivated by money. I think that that could be, you know, that could be something if he believes that Chase no longer has star potential. If Ron Rivera is not concerned about any year, other than this one, because he knows that he needs to win a lot of games in 2023, if he thinks that this is going to be, you know, the best way to get Chase Young to play

his best, if they don't care about losing him, all of those factors, I think, could play into the decision to not pick it up. I want to get to what's next with Montez Sweat and, you know, the situation they could be in at the end of next year or even before the end of next year or maybe even before the end of the weekend here in a moment. But, you know, overall, them not picking up the fifth year option, if you were to simplify what it means, what does it mean? It opens the door to Chase Young not being here in 2020, not, 24, not being a franchise cornerstone like you thought he was going to be when he was Ron Rivera's first draft. That doesn't mean that he's going to leave. If he balls out, I think they could pay him. They could pick him over Montez-Swatt.

They only have one franchise tag, so it's going to be very hard to keep both of them. But it is opening the door in a very serious way to a thing that seemed unfathomable two years ago. Yeah, and I would say when you're talking about the number two overall pick, who was also the defensive rookie of the year in 2020, what it says simply is that they believe there's a better chance than not that they're not going to want him on the team in 2024. And that's a stunning revelation considering where we were, you know, a year and a half ago. not as much now, like we talked about before,

but at the core, if somebody's like, well, why didn't they? It's because they're not sure they're going to want him on the roster in 2024. Because that's true. If they were sure, or even if the odds favored that they were going to want him on the roster in 2024, they would have picked up the fifth year option. Yeah, I think this is the same situation that we saw last year with Carson Went. You can bring a guy in. You can say you believe in him.

But when you don't spread out his deadcap, when you don't push out the guaranteed money and you say, hey, we're going to leave that optionality to get out of this deal after it, that's what tells you what they actually believe. And this is telling you that they are okay, even, you know, maybe open to the possibility that Chase Young will not be on the roster next year. And that, like you said, for all those reasons, it's a pretty remarkable turnaround. Obviously, you know, there are some other factors that play that paid to Ron Payne, which obviously goes. into this. You know, they kept John Allen at quite a price. So there are other factors, but they basically are essentially saying we might be comfortable with choosing the interior guys for the first guy that we ever picked. I mean, that's a really good analogy. The Carson-Went's

analogy with them not, you know, extending the deal or working it to a point where the cap number was lower last year. And I said it right when they didn't do it. I said, well, this tells you how they really feel. And this tells you with Chase Young how they really feel. There's one big difference though, Sam, and that is publicly they were super positive about Carson. Publicly with Chase going back to January, he is put into the bloodstream into the public sphere that they may not pick up this option. And by the way, that comes off whether he meant it or not as negative. Yeah, I think like those are two different circumstances because of the players involved. Carson Wentz, you know, he had some confidence problems.

You wanted to build him up. You know, if you're going to give up assets, he needs to be the guy and you do everything you can. With Chase, I think it's quite the opposite. He's the number one two pick. You know, he's the defensive rookie of the year. You want him to produce. And if you felt like, hey, you know, it took him a little bit longer to come back from that injury than we thought. You know, we didn't really like his play before that.

Obviously, Ron was critical of Chase and Montez in 20. 2021 for their rush lane discipline, not working well with the rest of the line, freelancing. If that's your sample, if that's what you've seen from the last two years, maybe the thing you need to get him, get the best from him is to criticize him publicly and say, try to get him to understand, hey, we need you to be better. We need you to reach the ceiling we thought you had. So to me, it makes sense about why there's such a stark difference between their approaches. That's a good answer. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. I just think that if he wanted to keep all of his options available, and one of those options could be trading

Chey Chung, and I'll get to that in a moment, I think it would have been better to take the we're so confident route like they did with Carson Wentz right from the jump, because once you put it out there that you may not be picking up the fifth year option on a guy that was the defensive rookie of the year, and you pick number two overall, if your end goal, and I'm not saying it is. But if your end goal is to move him for the most amount in return, you didn't help yourself by essentially saying we're not fond of this person, or we're not as fond as him as we used to be. Now, your answer of this is Ron's way of getting the most out of Chase Young, I hope he's right. I hope he's right. And comparing it to Duran Payne, by the way, he's gotten

mixed up. I don't know if you picked up on this. I'm sure you have. He's actually talked about how the two situations are 100% analogous and said, you know, and he actually said at one point, we didn't pick it up on, on Duran either and see, and look what happened. Well, they did pick up the fifth year option on Duran Payne. And they picked it up pretty quickly on Montez Sweat as well. So let's talk about what's next with this. You know, I'll let you kind of describe how you see the sweat, Chase Young, both and entering next year if they're both on the roster.

And maybe before we get to that, do you think there's any chance that they're shopping him? Shopping Chase. Yes. I don't think that they will trade Chase Young this year. Because, yes, you have expressed a lack of confidence in him by declining his fifth year option, but I don't think you compound that by then saying,

hey, we believe in this guy so little that we will take pennies on the dollar for whatever we can get. And I do think, regardless of what you think of Chase Young, and I think everybody who says he's a bust or, oh, he could still be the superstar, I think that there are plenty of arguments on both sides of that. But I think that if you're looking at the Washington Commander's roster and you're saying, what is the likeliest path for us to get to the most amount of wins in 2020s possible, it is figuring out how to motivate Chase Young and getting whatever the best of him looks like, because I still think that that is better than whatever you're going to get back. you're trading him, if you are trading him from a position of disadvantage. And I don't think, okay, like, let's hypothetically say it's a fourth round pick this year. I still think Chase Young for his flaws is going to be better than whomever that person is. Well, I mean, let me be clear on this, because I've said this before, but for everybody that's listening, I really

want Chase Young to turn out to be the player that I thought he was going to turn out to be, because I was advocating in 2019 that they not beat the Giants, that they lose in overtime and a shootout because I wanted Haskins to look good, but I didn't want them to win the game because I wanted them to get Chase Young. And after that rookie season, everybody that really wanted Chase Young looked pretty smart. And then a sack and a half in nine games in 2021, the injury, the, you know, the clear evidence at this point from, you know, what the coaches have said, what they said in 2021 specifically, there is a trust issue in his commitment level.

and in his maturity. And we'll leave it at that. That is playing a role in this decision. But I hope it works out. And I still believe that what I saw at the end of last year when he played in those three games against the 49ers, Browns, and Cowboys, Sam, is I thought I saw a guy whose explosiveness looked like it did in 2020.

There were several plays you can go back to in the Cleveland game and in the San Francisco game, and it looked like he was healthy, completely healthy. So I hope he blows up this year and has 15 sacks and then they've got the issue of, okay, we've got two players who are entering, you know, 2024 without contracts and they'll deal with that in a good way. But I still, I think that there is a chance. And you're right. And it's what I was saying before. They've created more of a disadvantage to trading him with kind of not picking up the option and even more than that.

kind of contemplating it, like they've done this in public. And I actually thought last week with Martin Mayhew, you were there. I actually thought he was a little bit too flippant. I mean, silly when it came to the discussion of Chase Young. And I kind of thought in the moment, well, maybe he is going to pick up this option. Because at this point, it would be, not that it would be mean-spirited, but it would kind of be, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that? I wasn't going to get into that.

but I felt like he was a little bit, you know, kind of having fun with the Chase Young conversation last week. Yeah, I guess what did you, like, was it his cone, body latest? What said to you, Martin's like having fun with this? It was more Ron. It was more Ron. It was the, you know, well, we'll have to wait and see, you know. And I, you know, I'd have to pull up. I watched the presser, and I can't remember specifically what it was about that portion of it.

but I remember thinking in the moment when I saw that, hmm, maybe they are going to pick this thing up after all. And I don't have it in front of me. I don't have the transcribing of that press conference in front of me. But anyway, did you feel that way? It's tough to say because I think that Ron is, how would I describe it, maybe playfully coy with media stuff all the time, like, you know, when they were going to make the quarterback decision in week 15 and 16 last year,

you know, I'll tell you guys on Wednesday, you'll see the, you'll see the guy who takes the first team reps. I think that there's an element of that where he always is sort of operating that way when he doesn't have to announce decisions. And there was an exchange with John Kahn, with V.Sdn. You know, Ron said, I haven't told May 2nd, and Kine said, oh, you know, if today was May 2nd, what would you say? And Ron said, you know, well, I, you know, I guess we would make the decision then. So I get where you're coming from. It didn't strike me that way. It didn't strike me as any difference than how Ron usually is in those pressers. But I do think it's interesting, right, that like they had until May 2nd, but they did it today.

They were doing it before the draft. I do think it was probably smart of them to not let this play out and not like have the drama build if they really weren't going to actually make that decision. Right. That this, yeah, I think that. I think that. that's, I guess that that's kind of the point maybe, but not really, whatever. I kind of have sense that they weren't going to do this for a while, that they certainly didn't want to do it. In fact, if they had done it, I would have been suspicious that they had done it for kind of PR reasons so as to not look bad and to not look like they totally effed up the 2020 draft. You know, personally, I think this is the right thing to do. It's,

If they believe now that there's a chance they made a mistake, don't double down on it. Absolutely. And I think that, like, the rhetoric, like, I've had some people say, oh, you know, Ron should have been nicer. And I get the strategic value of, oh, if we're going to trade him, you know, don't tear him down to the meet. But people have said, oh, what about Ron and Chase's relationship or what's going to happen if they're both around next year? And I think that it's very unlikely that we'll get both Ron and Chase in Washington. in 2024. It's possible that one of them is here, but it seems unlikely that wasn't the mirror. Anyway, I think that this whole relationship, it's totally solved if

Chase Young balls out, has 15 sacks, and the team is like, okay, we will give you a big contract because you are a good player like we thought. I think that this is all fixed if Chase is who we thought he was. Bottom line is it's on him now. It is on him to go out and earn it. I also think with that said, I think that Ron, and I talked about this maybe a week ago, that with a player like Chase, who's young and has maybe made some mistakes here with respect to commitment, he also came off a very serious injury, much more serious than your run-of-the-mill ACL, that they have a responsibility here to exhaust all avenues to get him to to, you know, to not, as my good friend, Doc Walker says,

hold talent hostage, to get the most out of his talent. And to your point, maybe this is part of it. Maybe the incenting him, incentivizing him by not picking up the fifth year option is part of the coaching plan to get the most out of it. Absolutely. Because if you go back and you watch the Ron press conferences from weeks one through, I would say six of the 2021 season, he's very positive.

He preaches, patience, hey, you know, Chase is figuring it out. You know, the production's going to come. He's getting there. And then it almost felt like he was like, okay, I have to switch my, I have to switch my demeanor because this is not getting through to this guy. And, you know, it's, I'm sure some of it is frustration, but I think also it's just tactical. And Ron has done that with different players, you know, throughout his time in Washington. and when he feels like Jamie Davis in week one last year, him and Jack both got after him.

Right. They'll be very positive until they feel like it's beneficial to get after you in public. All right. So what's next? Does this open up the door for a Montes Sweat contract extension or not? Yes. I mean, you mean before the season? Well, before the season?

Yes, before the season. I mean, that's really tough because if you extend Montes, you are essentially saying, Chase, no matter how well you play, we probably will not retain you. And I think that, like, that is limiting your, not, I hate to use the business speak, but like the optionality that Washington's front office would have if they extended Montes Webb before the season or even maybe Cam Curl if they give them a big money deal. Like, I think that just limits you inherently. And so maybe we see, you know, a bunch of these guys play it out on the last.

last year of their contracts. And then in the off season, it's like, okay, hey, we are going to figure out, okay, which have you played the best, which ones we want to keep you at which prices. Because, again, I hate to be a broken record on this, but I really think that all of the decisions can be explained by them saying, how do we win the most number of games in 2023? And if dudes are playing for contracts, you're obviously going to, you know, you're maximizing your chances to get the best out of them. Yeah, I just think that I hear you, but then you go back and you flip it to the other side of the ball, and they're going to perhaps start a fifth round second year quarterback

for the 2023 season, and that's not going to lead to a playoff season more likely than not. It could lead to optimism about the quarterback position. It could lead to in the NFC, you know, a 9-and-8 record and a 7-seed maybe and some real optimism, I guess. But more times than not, you know, the fifth-round guy in his first full year is starting, even if he turns out to be, you know, an NFL caliber quarterback isn't going to lead you to the best chance for the most wins.

Sure, but I think the counterpoint to that is that's why you signed you Kobe Bressett, who's for as an NFL quarterback, if last year he can continue what he did, that it's decently high. I'm not saying that he's going to, you know, take you to the third seat or whatever, but, like, you know, you can feel pretty confident about winning nine, 10 games if you get what you got if you get what the Browns got out of of Cotby Brissette last year. Yeah, no doubt. I agree with that. Like his floor is much higher

than any floor they've had at that position in a while. And if they had him last year, I mean, I made this case when they signed him. I think if Jacoby Brissette started all those games last year that Carson-Wenst and Taylor Heineke started, that they probably would have won 10 games and been in the playoffs, or certainly nine, you know, and gotten that

extra game and been in the postseason. So ultimately, by the way, I think that that is the right strategy, right, to let it play out during the course of this season. If they decide not to do anything with Chase in particular, and my guess is they're not going to trade them either. I just think that that's not a complete impossibility. So at the end of the year, if they both ball out, it's a good problem to have, but how does it get solved? and I'm talking about they both have big-time Duran Payne-like years from last year. That's a really interesting question that I think we have to acknowledge another variable here, is Washington does not have a D-N period on the roster that signs through next year.

Shakotony, the only one, obviously was suspended for gambling, but all the backups, James Fitzwill, Casey Two-Hill, F.A. Obato, William Bradley King, all those guys will also be free agents. So you're going to have to decide, okay, like, which one do we give the big contract to and which one do we let walk for the comp pick? And then which of these backups do we resign at good prices? If they both have Durant Payne years, you will probably franchise tag one and then try to work out a long-term deal to keep, you know, to keep them around for the long term. But it is, you know, I feel like we've been saying this for three years, right? And we had this discussion with John Allen, then with Duron Payne.

You cannot keep all four of these guys without taking any semblance of roster building in balance, right? Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's what we've all thought for several years now, and they've got two of them done, and there's certainly room for one more. And, you know, I hope it's a really difficult decision for them at the end of next year, because based on, you know, high-level production. because that would be a good problem for them to have. If it's super high production from both of them, you know, I don't know what you do then.

If you can get one sign to a contract extension and franchise and get some offer sheets and end up losing the other one but get some picks back, you probably can't sign and trade at that point. You'd have to tag. Right. So in the ideal scenario, yes, you are losing one of them probably. I think the long-term extension of the tag would be really fascinating in terms of which one do you prior. Buy you another year.

Right, right. You would be kicking the can down the road. And if they ball out and if the office has the high floor that we expect, like they're probably a playoff team. So does that mean Ron Rivera is getting another year? Or is the Harris group going to want to pick their guy anyway? I mean, that is, that would be a hypothetical and hypothetical that is extremely fascinating to me because it would tell us a lot about the new ownership group.

if that's what they decided to do. Yeah. You know, they could only have those kinds of good problems because these aren't the kinds of decisions they have faced over the last quarter century for the most part. They've rarely had two really good choices in one off season. We have Sam 48 on the show. Sam is, he does a great job for the post.

I've told you this before, but you're one of my favorites. and Sam is a musician. He is from New Hampshire. All of these things we talked about with Sam on one of the podcasts he came on, I don't know, a year or so ago. So let's talk about tomorrow night. What do you have them doing right now at 16? They stay at 16, and I think they could absolutely move down again, particularly because I expect the top four prospect that they would be interested in, the top two O-Linman, Skoronski and Paris Johnson, and the top two quarterbacks,

Christian Gonzalez and Devin Wetherspoon. I see those four guys as locks for being off the board by 16. I don't see Washington moving up. So at this point, I would probably expect them to take Tennessee Wright tackle Darnell Wright. He checks a lot of the boxes that they like. You know, he is a multi-year starter with elite production against elite competition. He played very well against Alabama edge rusher Will Anderson. he's played 2,700 career college snaps,

which gives you a pretty good idea of the guy you're going to get. He's going to contribute right away. You can move the offensive line around. That is the guy that makes the most sense to me. If he's off the board, or if they're not as high on him as I think that they are, then I think you could go a couple different directions. Brian Branch, the DB from Alabama is another intriguing option. Do you as an offense want Dejan Robinson if he's there?

I don't know. I would question that, but it's something I could see them being open to. I think those are the probabilities on the board right now. You haven't mentioned because Branch is really, you know, he could certainly be their slot corner and might be, but you haven't mentioned any of the true corners. Like, let's just say that Paris Johnson, Broderick Jones, and Darnell Wright in Scronsky are all off the board at 16.

You think they would go Branch? And by the way, Witherspoon and Gonzalez are both off the board. we've seen a lot of mocked corners, including Joey Porter Jr., which wouldn't be my favorite pick, and I don't really think they'll go in that direction. But what about the corners? You didn't mention any of them? Yeah, no, I said I thought that Gonzalez and Wetherspoon would be off the board. Right, but I'm talking about the other guys after them.

Right, right. You're talking about Deontay Banks and Forbes. At 16, I think that that's a reach for both Forbes and Banks. I think Joey Porter Jr. I don't think there is high on him. And I know, I think the number one thing is like, oh, he played a lot of of press man last year at Penn State. He could be William Jackson in the fourth is what Pete Haley calls him.

I don't think that's quite as fair because he did play more zone as a junior at Penn State. So I think he could. But I just don't see him as a natural scheme fit. If you want a better scheme fit, I think Deonté Banks could be that guy. I don't love Forbes just because he would be the same. second-lightest corner drafted since at least 2,000 at 166 pounds. I think that

he really struggles against the run, obviously, the durability hasn't been a concern because he hasn't missed any games, the SEC, but that's obviously a very good conference. But I just don't see either of those guys at least at 16. If you go back to 19, if you go back to 25,

maybe some of those guys are in play, and maybe Banks didn't play at 16. Maybe they really like him like that, but I would just be surprised that they would go with him over over a guy like darn all right. By the way, I think Forbes obviously at 165 pounds that that would be a concern, but he was a, in addition to being an incredible playmaker, he was a good tackler. I mean, he was an excellent tackler for somebody that size. I mean, he's tall, he's just incredibly lean and light. I actually really like him, but you might be right, 16 might be too high. So that

leads me to this. What do you think the chances are that, there will be an offer like there was last year that that is a good that's good enough for them to go back with. This is one of the most central questions of the draft for me. Like what is the market for the 16th pick? And obviously there's a lot of variables. And, you know, I was reading, you know, a coach, you know, a GM inside the top 10. Last year I felt like I had 75% of, I knew 75% of our pick would be this year it's like 25% because nobody knows what the Texans are doing. the Cardinals are probably trying to trade out.

What's the quarterback movement at the top? I think that will determine the downstream effect of that is that you're going to see different players become available at 16, and that changes the market. But if they can move back, I mean, getting more bites at the Apple, getting, you know, Cole Turner like they did last year and a couple of other those pieces, that would be the preferable move for me if the market exists. Yeah, and the market is going to be more.

more likely than not, you know, a quarterback. You know, and I would think, you know, a Leviss or a Richardson, although who knows where we are on Hendon Hooker right now and maybe 16, somebody's got to go up to get to see if they really want him, has to go up to 16 to get him. Last year it was really kind of wide receivers. You know, Drake London started the run on wide receivers, and the Saints wanted a lave,

and that was where they had to get to get there. Give me the player that you think if he's there at 16, even if there's an opportunity to trade back that they won't. The player or players. That could be there. I'm not talking about, like, I don't, I guess Witherspoon or Gonzalez could be there. I've seen some mocked, but, you know, obviously the top five or six guys aren't going to be there. Right.

You're saying a player that Washington would, like, that could fall, that would expect to go earlier that could fall, that they would not want to pass. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be a player that falls. It's a player that they absolutely are not going to trade back if that player is on the board at 16. Some people really believe that Darnel Wright is the best offensive tackle in this class. And so I think that, like, that is a guy that they could feel that strongly about. I know some people in the building like him a lot. But I think the stronger answer is the two corners.

Like you said, I don't think that Wither's Booter Gonzalez will be there, but those are the guys that I wouldn't want to move back on. I know that it's possible, and we've talked about, oh, could they take an edge rusher considering the uncertain futures of Chase Young and Montesquette? I don't see it as high as 16. And even if one of the good ones falls, I would have a hard time, you know, staying there for that position. So there's a very short list of guys. If Eric De Enemy has a really strong voice and wants Bejan Robinson or, you know, a different tackle, maybe Anton

Harrison. Like I think that's probably too high for him. But those, it's a very short list about guys that I would not move back from if it's not an elite corner or an elite offensive tackle. Yeah, I mean, last year, just for everybody, you know, thinking about, well, last year they traded back. There was a run on wide receivers, but I'm going to tell you right now, if Drake London had been there at 11, and I think if Charles Cross the offensive lineman had been there at 11, I don't think they would have traded back. And maybe another player in there as well. But that'll be interesting for sure. Did you see what Albert Breer reported earlier today in his, whatever it is, the SI MMQB or whatever it's called, said that, did you see what he said about

Washington and 16? I did not. He said that Marty Herney has advocated in the building for Anthony Richardson. So That is... Okay, go ahead.

So what's your reaction to that? I mean, I get it, right? Like, Anthony Richardson is a very talented athletic quarterback prospect who has a very high feeling. Like, you know, how could you not like that guy in terms of what if you think you could develop him, like, yeah, I mean, he is the, if your next thing, as my colleague Adam Kilgore calls it, and you're saying, oh, he could be the next,

Josh Allen, I get that. But to me, it would not make sense for Washington to take a quarterback at 16 or in the first round in general, and that includes Hendon Hooker. That includes some of these other guys. Because, you know, a first round quarterback is overwhelmingly likely not going to come in and significantly upgrade your team in year one. If you take Anthony Richardson, especially, he is a project quarterback.

And I'm not, I'm not saying he's Malik Willis. I'm not saying that he can't get there. I'm just saying he has things to figure out, and that will take time. And do you, as a regime, have the capacity and the time with a new ownership group to take those works? Maybe you do. Maybe if you draft Anthony Richardson and Josh Harris comes in,

he's like, hey, that was a great pick. you know, if we get this situation right, like we're a rocket ship, that's great. I just don't see that as the highest probability of them winning the most games in 2023. Do you think they'll take a quarterback in the draft somewhere? Yes, I do. I think that like edge rusher, like running back, quarterback is a position they will address at some point in the draft. I would be surprised if they didn't take one in the middle round. I think, you know, Dorian Thompson Robinson from UCLA as a candidate.

Obviously, you know, Tanner McKee from Stanford. He worked with Tevita Pritcher, the new quarterback's coach at Stanford for the four years. He was there. So he would be a natural fit. Jake Hainer from Fresno State is a guy that's been compared to Taylor Heineke. So there's a lot of, you know, I think options in the middle of the late round. All right. Last one.

Give me the guy, because you've been looking at this for a while, give me the guy that you would like to see them pick at any point in the draft, like a player that you're convinced would really work well here, and maybe you even know that they like them. Georgia defensive back Christopher Smith the second. He's kind of like, you know, a little bit less than Brian Branch. He's like Brian Branch. I'm not saying that the exact same players, but you talk about a guy that went to, you know,

one of the best programs in the country, had multiple years of production, was a team captain, was a starter, can play multiple. In the back end, very smart. Like, that to me is the Ron Rivera profile. If he's there, if it makes sense, if they don't get, you know, Brian Branch or another DB in the first round, like, he would be a slam dunk in terms of, like, Ron Rivera's evaluation in that front office, I think, in the second round, maybe the third, but you're taking a risk there.

I think that's a guy who they would really love. Great job, as always, really enjoyed it. Thanks for the time. I'll talk to you soon. Of course. Kevin, it's always a nice job. it up with you, so I appreciate it. Fred Smoot next right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, jumping on with us now, and we had them on a few weeks ago, and it was great. He always is great as a guest, is Fred Smoot. Believe it or not, 22 years ago, the young Mississippi State cornerback was getting ready for the NFL draft. And before we get into this draft, tell me what you remember. about that 2001 draft, and if you had a sense that Marty was going to take you here? I didn't. At that time, man, and that's funny, me and Santana.

And way to make me feel old shit. Me and Santana was just talking about that, and Santana was slotted to come here at 15 or 16, and I was slotted to go to the other Washington with Seattle at 17. So I was forced to watch guys get drafted before me, And I remember getting the call from Marty Scheidheimer, and he was like, are you ready to play some cornerback in the NFL? And, of course, at this time, I'm already anxious, and I'm kind of mad, but I'm just so damn happy.

So at the end of the day, it was just different for me, and it was a blessing to come to D.C., so I enjoyed it. So you were taken in the second round number 45 overall, but you thought you thought you were going to, I'm sorry, you thought you were going to Seattle at 17 right after Santana went to the Jets at 16? Oh, yeah, that's where I was slotted it. I was slotted anywhere from 10 to 20. And Seattle needed a corner at that time. And that's where I thought I was going.

I had talked to him a couple of times. And Mel Kuiper had picked me at 17 to go there. So, you know, you figure you're trying to – This one, we have to look at the magazine and not just E.P. And see where you slide there. Right. So it was a different situation. Yeah, it was much different.

By the way, I'm looking at that draft. Do you know who Seattle drafted at 17? Seattle end up drafting, if I'm not mistaken, Corn Robinson. Nope. They did? No, they drafted Coren Robinson at number nine. All right, they had two first round picks. At 17, they picked, do you know?

Let me think. Let me think. All right, K. Rob went in. I don't know who did they pick. one of three Hall of Famers that were drafted in that first round. Ladani and Tomlinson went to San Diego, Future Hall of Famer, Richard Seymour to New England Future Hall of Famer, and Steve Hutchinson.

Hutchinson, who I end up playing with in Minnesota. I should have thought about that. And don't forget about the Future Hall of Fame and Drew Breed that was a part of my class, too. And you got Steve Smith, and you got a couple of bubler guys, like Richard Wayne could be a future Hall of Fame. So we was loaded with guys, the Chad Johnson that were, we was loaded. Do you remember, like I asked Clinton this yesterday because I had Clinton on the radio show. And I asked Clinton, I said, can you name the running backs that were taken before you?

And he said, of course I can. Because Clinton, he walked out of the draft party he was at. He was so despondent that he went in the second round. Can you name the corners that were taken before you? Nate Clemens, Jamar Fletcher, Ken Lucas, I think. Was that it?

I'm looking through the list here. Hold on for one second. Nate Clements, yeah, because they've got them listed as DBs here. Archilletta was a safety, obviously. Clements, Will Allen.

Will Allen was a corner. Will Allen to the Giants, Jamar Fletcher to the Miami and Dolphins and Ken Lucas to the Seattle Seattle. Yeah. Derek Gibson to the Raiders, was he a safety? Yeah, he was a safety from Florida State. Okay, all right, there you go. And some dude named Bashir. Oh, Bashir. Oh, he was a safety for the Colts.

Yeah, he was a safety. Yeah. All right. You got him. You got him with the exception of the one that I gave you Will Allen. All right, all right. By the way, you know, I've always said, and I've probably told you this before. But to me, you know, as we wait for ownership to change, Dan Snyder's made a lot of mistakes. And I know that those of you who played for him and were, you know, high profile players feel differently than maybe a lot of the fans do. I don't want to get into that. But I think the number one mistake that he made, and I've said this for 15 years, 16 years, was getting rid of Marty Schottenheimer after that 2001 season, because I think if Marty stays, and by the

the way John Schneider then stays, you have playoffs and division titles and 12 and 13 win seasons for the next five, six years. And I totally agree. You said a mouth full right there. Not only did he have a point in the right direction, he had a future Hall of Fame and Champ Bailey. My career probably lasts three more years because of winning alone. You have your bookends at Conner. We had Chris Samuels, a staple head left tackle. We had a running back. All we was missing was a quarterback. And we had the leader in Marty Schadenheim with that.

He was literally, did not care who you was, veteran, young player. He was bending us to his wheel to make sure we played all one way. That was one of the, if not, the biggest mistake I think Dan made was letting more to go. I also think to trade, and I'm sorry, you don't trade corn. cornerbacks for running backs, the trade with Champ Bailey. No, and Clint, there was Lopsided. Well, I mean, I've told Clinton this before to his face. I loved Clinton Portis as a player. And I think there were a lot of reasons that Champ ended up getting traded that we don't need to get into.

But you don't trade a Hall of Fame corner. And by the way, a second round pick on top of that. If anything, Denver should have been sending us a second round pick with Clinton. But, you know, that was them. I mean, they didn't know how to, they got fleeced in most trades. But that 2001 season, you didn't even mention LeVar. I mean, I think if LeVar stays with Marty, he ends up becoming what I think his talent said he should become. Yes. Yes.

And freakish athlete. And hopefully at one point, especially with Marty, we would have. eventually moved to the three-four. And if we moved to the three-four, LeVar becomes a true edge rusher, and he becomes a Hall of Fame or Gold Coke, no doubt. And then I would have had not only a Hall of Fame in LaVar. I got a Hall of Fame

and Chris Samuels was so peaking towards Hall of Fame. And the one thing that we always do well, you can say what you want to. We draft well. John Taylor was headed for a yellow jacket. Carrigan was a hell of a draft pick. Trent Williams headed for a gold jacket. I can continue to go on with the fact that you got Brandon Sherry,

who've all pro. You drafted RG3, and I'm sorry if RG3 don't get an RG3 way, he may be. Rechitz Pete, you got Montez-Witt, the run plane, John Nellie, Pro Bowl, Pro Bowler. You're drafting well. You're just not keeping the guys together. Imagine that team if you still got Trick William on it,

RG3 on it, and you still got all these defense alignment. What kind of team do we have? Yeah, there were a couple. drafts that weren't that good. The 2008 draft may be the worst draft in NFL history when they drafted Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly. I think like five years after that draft there was only one player left in the league. And that was Fred Davis. Now he doesn't think about it. I'm going to be honest about it. It was the offensive lineman. It was it was Chad Reinhart. Chad Reinhart five years left.

later was the only one left? Because I don't think Fred Davis had a five-year career, did he? Maybe you're right. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. And he's going to think about it. Fred was a talent, all right?

Fred was a talent that we didn't see all the way through. Delman Thomas should have been a defensive back. If he would have been a defensive back, he would have a long career in his league. Malcolm Kelly was the exception to the rule because he was super damn talented. He could not stay healthy. Now, if you want to talk about the first war on buzz that we had, Josh Dodson was the one. that you look at and you say, how, why, what?

We got nothing out of it. Yeah, you just, you hit a sore spot with me because my son was at TCU and I watched every game that year and I told Doc, we were doing a draft show that night and I told them right before the pick because if you recall, Pierre was, the following year Pierre wasn't under contract, like they were running out of under contract wide receivers after the next season. And I said, you watch, you're going to take Josh Doxon right before the pick. And I thought he was a great talent in college. But, you know, he was, remember, he was just, I don't want to say it, you know, too.

He was homesick. He was, he. I'm saying, hey, say it, Dave, stop being around the butt. I don't mean nothing. I mean, I'm good. Just say it. Here you go. Here you go.

This guy did not love football. No, he didn't. He didn't love football. Right, you're right. It's a lot of players that talented. He was talented, but he did not love football. He was not tough, and he was a jumper, meaning he will make the easiest catch hard because he would leave his feet out.

That's where he felt comfortable. But he landed bad, and he wasn't a tough player. When they called it, I said, that's a terrible draft. Why would you do that? And I'm sorry, certain schools have track records. All right, and he's going to track record. I usually don't like TCUI receivers. They don't pan out.

They get in the league. They don't pan out. Yeah, yeah, I can go on and on about some of them. Most people didn't like for a long time, didn't like Penn State running backs until lately. The Penn State running backs were coming in the league and not be great. Kajana. You play with Kajana.

Yeah, I play with Kajana. Actually, think about this. I had three, no, I had four. number one picks on one team. We could John Carter, Bruce Smith, Big Daddy Wilkinson, and Jeff George. Wow. Yeah, well, the last name there wasn't very helpful. But by the way, per usual with you, we get completely off the rails here.

I was talking about the 2001 team, and then we go through every draft in the team's history. But, you know, the best part about that 2001 season, Kent Graham and Tony Banks at quarterback, and you guys almost made the playoffs. God, the defense was so good at the end of that year. So good. We were so good. Bruce was in the past. The Kinnard Lane, Big Daddy Wilkinson, Shum Barber, Levant, Arrington, Sam, Shade.

We had a squad that could play with each other. We turned the ball over. We got sex. And our offense basically ran the ball down your throat and did play action pads with Tony Banks and he let go of the most beautiful post route who you'll ever see in your life. So, yeah, we won despite of everything,

and that's why I say the future could only got brighter with us. Yeah. You know, O and 5 and the turning point in that season, you guys were down 14-0-0 against the Panthers at home, and LeVar picked the ball, yeah. Picked off a pass and brought it back like 80 yards, and you guys ended up winning in overtime. All right.

Before we get to this year's draft, just your reaction to the team not picking up Chase Young's fifth year option? I think it's smart in a way. I think they're playing Jedi mind tricks with him because at the end of the day, his fifth year option, if I were mistaken, would be 17 to a franchise tag him will be 20. There's not really a difference. 24, 24, I think. Yeah, there's like 7 million difference. But go ahead. Yeah, yeah.

And you're doing both for them only to get a long-term deal done anyway. So it's a kind of proof of year for him. I wouldn't say as his last year as a commander. I think it's one of the times where to show us who you are so we know what we're investing in. And, you know, I think it's a small move because you've got to realize neither. Him are my sweat under contract after this year.

Then you've got to realize you've got a couple guys that's holding some big cap numbers and Fuller. If you draft the cornerback this year, you can wheel and deal with him. And Charles Lennon. who makes around $13 million, if I'm not mistaken, another guy that you can free up if you draft another die plus you sign Wiley. So it's some flexible moves you can make to free up the money.

All right. So I don't disagree with you, okay? And I just had Sam 48 from the Washington Post on. I don't disagree with you at all. But just like you did with me with Josh Doxon, this Jedi mind trick answer, they don't think he, right now, they don't think he is going to be on their roster. in 2024. If you think that there is a better chance than not that he's going to be on the roster in 2024, then you pick up that fifth year option. What they're telling you is we actually don't

believe that he's going to be a guy that we're going to want in 2024. Yeah, there might be some incentivizing him like they did with Duran, although Duran played on his fifth year option last year. Why have they fallen out of love with Chase Young? I don't know because he had a slow step. If y'all go back to a couple of game stretches when we went to the playoffs, I think he ended up with four sags, fumbles, two fumbles, two fomercocard of touchdowns. He's shown you what his peak could be.

I just think it's one of them things where they probably want him to grow up a little bit more. They want him to be more consistent. They want him to play through injuries. They want, you know, it's hard when you have a whole room of guys just, said the tone. John Allen that sets the tone so high. A drum pain come back and resets the tone so high. So they're expecting stuff from them. But I might like everybody.

I understand money talks. So at the end of it, think about this. We're talking about a coaching staff that's on the clock itself. So it's not making decisions for four years down the road. They're trying to hang on to what they have also. And you're talking about not on a could be a head coaching shift and a coaching staff shift. It could be a whole ownership shift. So if the ownership's coming here and they want Chase Young, they will have Chase Young. We have a lot of variables here. So I'm just saying,

this ain't finished. And it's not clean as cut as everybody think it is. All right. Let's get started on the draft with Fred. And we will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Let's get to the draft with Fred Smoot. You've made some really good calls in recent years since I've known you and you've been in media. Your best call as far as I'm concerned, and maybe you'll disagree with me, is that you said that Debo Samuel was going to be an absolute star in the NFL. And he was picked in the second round out of South Carolina. Do you have a really strong feeling about a given player in this year's draft or two? Well, you know what? The reason I feel like that, because I do a good job of trying to

look for unicorns, look for people that are different. And if they're different, it has to be a reason. And that reason usually translate to the next level. And it is a couple of unicorns in this draft. I'm sorry. It's a couple of guys. We're going to look back five years from now, and most GMs are going to say, hide in the hell that I'd not draft this dude when he was sitting right in my face. Anthony Richardson is that dude. I'm sorry, he is a unicorn. I'm no, he's not ready right now. He is not ready to play yesterday. You have to really treat him like Patrick Mahomes with thin gloves on. So at the end of they set him, prepare him, and get him ready. He's a unicorn. Dunell, Washington is a unicorn that's riding a dragon.

I think six seven, I mean, six seven, two hundred and fifty pounds, you will regret, not dead man, me, not getting that dude. Emmanuel was four of it. 166 pounds, survived in the SEC, took on Justin Jefferson, one of the bench receivers is not the best receiving league. Jamar Chase, one of the best receiver league. He's taking on all of them. He is your man.

He is a unicorn. It's a couple of players in this draft, and I'm sorry, Bijon Robertson. He is a faster, stronger version of Levy Unbeil, and wait to people see what this kid can do it, why we're seeing. He is dangerous. So it's a couple of guys in this trap. If they end up in the right spot, they will be a gold jacket guys. So let's start with Richardson on that list.

If he fell to 16 and it's probably not going to happen, would you be upset if they didn't take him? I would be hysterical. I will lose. Listen, if he's there at 14, you're trying to trade up. Don't even give it a chance for somebody else to get him. That's the ultimate surprise you can leave for the new owners. Like if the new owners are working anything in the background and he's falling at 14, you have to do that. Like at the end of the day, that's investing in a guy that's big as Caminoon, faster than, fast as Michael Vick, a guy that has a guy that has a guy that has a guy that has a a strong. All he needs to do is learn how to play the professional game. And you've had a, and you've got a quarterback for the next 15 years now. You can say a lot about us. We've got

three championships as a franchise, but we have never had a long relationship with a quarterback. We've never had a 10-year quarterback. We've never had a 15-year quarterback. At the end of the day, if you want to end all the woes of this team, quarterback is the position that once you get one, you continue to draft the position. That's how important it is. So, all right, I'm with you on that. I'm 100% with you on that. I love Anthony Richardson's upside. I think that there's a chance he ends up being the best out of this class.

And if he's anywhere near 16, I would be thinking about it. But do you agree with me that they're not going to do that? I just think we've got too many variables and too many circumstances. You've got to ask yourself, if you're the ownership group and you're not sure about it's coaching staff, do you want them drafting your quarterback of the future? I do you want to show some aggression and move up in this draft? Because if I was the GM, this is what I would do. I would get on the phone with the Los Angeles Rams.

Haven't had a first round picking over five, six, seven years. I would trade them my 16th pick for their next year's first round pick in that second round pick this year and maybe a fifth. And I will take those two second round picks and I will get a Jack Campbell. He's another unicorn that I forgot. Blindbacker, I love him. I love him from Iowa. and I will get Jack Campbell and I will get Darnel Wright to tackle from Tennessee.

I would get Dunaell, I mean, DeWan Jones from Ohio State. I would get those guys. And I would get ready for the Caleb Williams sweetsteaks next year. Yeah, right. That's one way to play it. We haven't talked a lot about it, but that's an interesting strategy. The problem with that, of course, is you've got to be bad next year because if you're terrible, you're not trading out of that number one spot with Caleb Williams.

So I think this team defensively is just too good to win less than four games. You know, they're going to win six, seven games just because they're going to be good enough defensively. And that's why you want to be loaded with first round pick. Yeah, but if you're the worst team in the league, you're not trading out of that pick if Caleb Williams is there. No, you're not, but we also know going into the season, we don't know. we always think we know the worst team until the season starts and some guy gets hurt. You're right. So we don't know the worst team, but I want to be loaded with ammo.

If I got two first round picks this year, I can offer you two first round picks next year. I can offer you a player. I got players on this roster that I can wheel and deal. So at the end of the day, I have capital. I have stuff that I can make a move for the quarterback that I want. All right. I want to talk about, you mentioned Emmanuel Forbes. He's one of my favorite players in the draft.

I don't care what he weighs. he actually tackles really well. He's from your alma mater. I think he'll be there at 16. But before we get to him, I want to hear what your rankings of the corners are. Do you think Forbes is the best corner? Do you think he's better than Gonzalez or Witherspoon? I think he's going to have the best career.

I think his career arc is going to be better. He's a better ball skill guy. He's very smart and intelligent. The thing about cornerbacks, it ain't can you play man. It's not can you play zone It's can you make plays Inside of the play call He can make

He studies the game I've talked to him I've picked his brain I love smart players That like like Let me tell you something Will Levin Played against him

And became a guy on the fours list When you're on fours list As an officer player Your value goes down Like he went in there as a top 10 player He left as a top 20 player After Forbes got through with him And he picked off a screen route

and to pick off a screen, bubble screen route, you have to have been, you have to practice there, and you're watching for keys down in distance and certain things like this. He at 6-2 as long as he is. And listen to me, when he gets his hands on the ball, he's the most offensive defensive player in this draft. He leads to NCAA in touchdown. He has a wreck. This guy is different.

Yeah, he is, he's got the all-time mark for touchdowns, touchdowns, uh, touchdowns from interceptions. He's got six career touchdown interception returns, 14 overall interceptions. And I remember he picked off Will Levis in that game and returned it for a score. That's, man, you know, when you were talking about picking off a screen, you know who I thought of? I thought of Kendall Fuller. Like I've always felt like Kendall Fuller has really good smart anticipation talent and, and, and, senses those things, right? Yes, he senses. And he's got to realize with Fuller, he's what,

fifth generation cornerbackism? He's learned from a family. I think his 80-played corner. Like, at the end of the day, he understands football. Let's be honest, Kimba is not the fastest cornerback in the league. He makes his plays through his education of the game, and that's what I want. I don't want a mercenary out there. I want somebody, and you've got to look at this. when I have a St. Juice on one side, which St. Juice will never be a eight-pick-in-an-a-uner-season guy. He's a nullifier. He's a guy that won't not allow a lot of catches, but he's not going to turn the ball over a lot. The guy opposite of him needs to be a ball haul. The ball needs to find him very D. Hall style.

He needs to be a ball magnet. And the best ball magnet in this draft is Emmanuel Ford. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. For those of you who haven't seen him, just, you know, Google the Emanuel 4th. Orbs highlight reel. You know, there are a couple of those picks that kind of bounced off the ground or whatever, but his anticipation, his timing, he just, he's a ball hawk, like you said. He just, he is one of those guys, like, I always love watching Micah Hyde play. I feel like whenever I watch Micah Hyde play, Smoot, he is always where the ball is going to be. You know, he's not fast.

He's not, you know, but for whatever reason, the ball's in the air and somehow he ends up with it. That's Johnny on the spot. I'm going to give you three names. Runday Bobber, Johnny on the spot. Dre Bligh, Johnny on the spot. DeAngelo Hall. The ball finds these guys. Yeah, it just does.

So are there other corners you like? Like Joey Porter Jr.'s been mocked to Washington a lot. How would you feel about that? Don't think he fits here. Not a ball hawk. Doesn't find the ball well. He's very long. I don't think he runs as well as everybody.

I think he's a guy that needs to go to the right situation, and I actually think that right situation might be the Pittsburgh Steelers. I think he's a guy that cannot play in every system. Kristen Gonzalez is a guy that I think can play in every system. I think he can do a lot out there. I want to see his speed translate to the game. All guys does it. He seems to kind of gallop out there and take his time.

Witherspoon is a guy that got everybody in trying. because out of all the guys, he's the most physical. He seems to have a great intuition. I don't know if he wants to run up on Derek Henry, the way he runs up on these guys in college. I don't know if they're going to pay off, but he can play inside. But I just don't think it's enough separation from cornerback one to cornerback 10

that I have to get one of these guys high. I can get the same thing I'm getting at Christian Gonzalez in Julius Brick from Kansas State. And he's six, three, two hundred and ten pounds can do it all. I can get that same thing from Gary Williams, from Syracuse, another 6-3 corner, 200 pounds that can really find the ball. And DJ Turner from Michigan, a guy that can flat out, blade, flat-out run, can find the ball. So the degrees of separation from 1 to 10 at cornerback is not very far. And I haven't talked about Eli Ricks. I haven't talked about Tomlinson from TCU.

I haven't talked like it's so deep at the cornerback position. Riley Moss from Iowa. I love Iowa football players, by the way. Tight ends. Yeah, tight ends in particular. He's lying about anything. Yeah. So you wouldn't have a problem if they, and I don't think they're going to do it,

but you wouldn't have a problem with Bijjan Robinson, you know, as a mid-first-round pick. Listen, he is a, he's one of those becks. Like, Sey Quora came and I'm like, ooh, he's different. La Dania and Thomas, ooh, he's different. And guess what? Be John Robertson. He's different. I don't know if he's good for us.

He's great for all 32 teams, but for us, I think Antonio Gibson is going to have a year in his life and Airbnb's offense. I think he's going to show people where he really is and what he really can do. So I think if you're trying to get – and that's why I think a lot of teams are trying to back out of this first round in this draft because this draft is not what you think it is. And every year we build up these 32 guys in the first round. And every year, 65% of these guys are bust.

I said, we know this. They only save picks. They're not the best picks. Yeah, no, you're right. I mean, it's a one out of three hit rate pretty much is a good rate when you look back kind of three years down the road. All right, back to quarterback. Assuming they don't take Anthony Richardson, and I mentioned this to Sam Fortier earlier,

apparently Marty Herney, according to Albert Breer, has advocated in the building for Anthony Richardson. I don't know if it'll help at all. But let's just assume that Anthony Richardson's gone and that they don't take a quarterback at 16. Do you think they will take a quarterback in this draft? And if it's not one of the top five guys, Young Levis Stroud Richardson, and I'll throw Hooker in there, who do you like on night two or day three of the draft? I don't like any of the other quarterbacks behind those guys.

Hooker is my guy. If it's not Hooker, you don't draft anybody. I think Hooker has a lot of upside right behind Richardson. I think Hooker can do everything. The guy can run. Now, everybody wants to talk about his age at 25. Quarterbacks played today, 40. Plus, Joe Burrell got drafted at 24.

Nobody cares. Everybody's looking for a reason not to draft these guys instead of a reason why to draft these guys. Hunter and Hooker can do everything you need to be done on his level. He needs a year off, so that's perfect because you're going to let Sam Howell show what he has. I just think that if you're going to draft a quarterback, he is your only option. If you can't get a hold of Richardson, he is your only option.

I don't think you go to Tanner from Stanford. I don't think you do that. I don't think you find anybody else special after these top guys in this quarterback class. You don't like DTR? You don't like Dorian Thompson Robinson from UCLA at all? I don't think he's a starter. If I'm looking for a guy right now because of my quarterback situation, I want a guy that has starting capability.

I don't want to look for a new guy. I think DTRR do very well as a backup at the Ravens. I think he has to go to a place similar to that to really show his skills that he wouldn't really help my calls here. All right. One more for you. Actually, two more. What do you think the Jets will be next year with Aaron Rogers? I think the Jets will be that mercenary team.

We've seen a couple of mercenary teams. We think the Tampa Bay Bucks with Tom Brady. mercenary team, mercenary quarterback. We've seen the Rams with Matthew Staff of mercenary team, one-year mercenary quarterback. We're going to see a very similar situation because that New York defense will actually not have to shed everybody down anymore. They will actually get to play and pass rush with the lead. They're going to be even more dangerous.

Their running game is going to be even more dangerous because most people forget that they got Melancho back to them and all these other guys coming back. Plus, they might draft a guy in the first round. at the end of the day, they will be fine. He has three or four wide receivers that can make plays out there. I'm sorry, they will be a dangerous team. But the question is, which Aaron Rogers are you getting? Because I saw happy Aaron Rogers walking at a day.

And if he, anything emotionally and connected to this team, they will be a hard team to be. Yeah, the first two examples you gave for mercenaries, they both won the Super Bowl in their first years there. Yes, because the team was already baked. Tampa Bay already had the defense. The Rams already had the defense. They already had the wide receivers. The Rams had the wide receivers. So this team is very similar.

So when I say mercenary, you have to be ready for the mercenary quarterback, and this team is. I totally agree with you, which is why, you know, when the season ended this year, and Rogers, it was possible he was available. And I know with the ownership situation, we weren't going to be in a position to do it. But to me, the Jets and our roster are very, similar. If you threw Aaron Rogers onto our team, if we had woke up yesterday and Aaron Rogers was traded for by Washington, we'd be the third pick in the NFC to go to the Super Bowl

behind the 49ers and the Eagles. Oh, no, we are ready. I told people this, listen to me, we beat the Super Bowl contenders in the Eagles. We have the defensive line. We're similar built to the 49ers. We have everything that 49ers have a half a set. We don't have a Trent Williams. But listen, we did get a couple guys in free agents.

This is a ready roster. It ain't but five or six guys are groups you can put in front of our group of wire receivers and say they better. We have a group of running backs. We have a quarterback-ready team, and that's why I said if we were the team to get them, we will be picked to win the Super Bowl right now because trench warfare wins championships. And the last time we won championships here, we had the hogs on the offense, dixon, dixon, the rest of those dogs on defense, and we have a defense.

we have a defensive line that mimics that Tritch Warfare wins game. You know what I love about you is that you came here in 2001, and you know so much of the history of this team. You've already thrown out the fact that we've never had a quarterback here for a decade, which is true, as great as this franchise was, you know, for a long period of time before you got here, unfortunately. We didn't have long-standing quarterbacks. I mean, Sunny came here in 64,

and left in 74, but he wasn't the starter the entire time. You know what Joe Thaisman's? Let's see how good you are. You know what Joe Thysman's first position when he was here in Washington was? Yeah, he was a pro-returner. Very good. My man. He was a pro-returner.

And don't forget that we did not have a long outstanding relationship with Mark Rippin. No, at the end of the day, the guys that took us to the promise plan, these are short relationships. We never had a marriage. this fan bases do for a long relationship that settles everybody down. It ain't nothing to go to the stadium every Sunday and know we got Ann Rogers there. So until we find that guy that we can marry, we don't be in these short relationships for the rest of our life. You know what?

And this is really going to piss you off because I know how you feel about him. But we should have been in a long-term relationship with cousins. And we would have been much better off, much better off. You know what? Cousers is the ultimate, let me tell you something, numerically. That's how great this game is. Eight billion people on this planet, we've never found 32 great quarterbacks at one season ever.

And Kirk is in that mediocrity. Kirk means it's all right to come out and watch this play. We won't be too bad, but we won't be too good. And we ain't going to win a championship. We ain't going to do. Kirk would have kept us in that mediocrity because the one thing I can say about Kurt, regular season he has it but it's something about the postseason when it comes to he won't be the reason you win but he could be the reason you get there and that's the

difference in great quarterbacks okay well you know we haven't well we did we were in the playoffs in 2020 with a losing record but I was going to say we haven't sniffed a winning season since he was here so we'll leave it at that actually you know what you told me this before we started to record and I have not talked about it on the podcast and it's my favorite thing right now, which are the NBA playoffs. So you're watching them as well. What did you think of the Trey Young performance last night? I love Trey Young because some players need to understand the identity. And I think Trey is finally understanding. He is a villain. He is the Joker and a Batman story. He cannot be

the good guy. When the stadium and when the crowd is against him, he plays the best. When it's playoff time, Tray plays the best. So I think sometimes you need to embrace who you really are, because it brings out your best game. The question ain't is what's going on with Tray. The question is what the hell is going on with Boston? Because at the end of the day,

they're supposed to be contending for a championship. And they made so many mistakes at the end of the game. They turned the ball over. It was so unboshton-like. So at the end of it, then Brown, he comes down and makes the most terrible shot of, So it was one of those things where Boston got in Boston way. So this is not about the Atlanta Hawks.

This is about Boston. We can refer to Trey Young, you and I can as Littlefinger. If you want to put him in the villain category. What about, okay, so, because you're a Hoops fan too. Jimmy Butler's performance two nights ago is one of the greatest individual playoff performances I've ever watched. I don't know where it is on the list, but it's on the list. What did you think of it?

Oh, it's Jimmy Butler. It's like, I don't know if he just waits for the playoff. I don't know if he's just bored with the regular season. I don't know, but nobody can stop Jimmy Butler in the playoffs. I'm talking about 35, 45, 50-point games, and he does this multiple times. It ain't like he's doing this one or twice. He does this any time they need them. I haven't seen Duck and Robinson for two years.

Well, the players besides Jimmy Buller, they cannot possibly let one man dominate him in the playoffs. I can't see them. Like, when are you going to start to double this man and force somebody else from Miami to beat you? They'll have by you or somebody. Force him to beat you, but to let Jimmy get secondably, and he does it so easy.

He scores 12 to 14, 15 points off of defense plays. Then he comes back and he shoots the three better than he was shooting. probably his whole career. And if he's going to do that, he's not going to stop it. You're good because it's such a great point about how he scores in so many different ways. He's great in the mid-range. In the playoffs, he shoots the three. He'll shoot a three in transition.

He creates opportunities off of his defense. And the other observation you made I made yesterday with Tom on the podcast, do you know how many times Milwaukee double-teamed him in that game the other night? Four. Nine. Four times. I thought they didn't never do it. Like, I'm sorry.

After he had a 20-point quarter, you might want to think the double team. I think it's one of the worst. Like, I was sitting there watching the game. I'm like, how are they not doubling this guy? Like, I'd have two guys waiting for him at half court to force BAM or anybody, because nobody else could score. It was amazing.

I actually still think. and I said this on yesterday's show. As much as I'm rooting for Jimmy Butler in Miami, and I want them to win this series, I still think Miami, that Milwaukee's going to win the series. They're going to win three straight. What do you think? I don't know.

Milwaukee is, I think they're suffering from the glory days they've had because I think the playoff after playoff year after year start to take a toll on you. And I don't know if they have a number three score now. And I think that's going to really hurt the situation that they end because they need that score, especially with Yonnis being hurt. If he's going to come here, but he's still going to give you double-doubles, he still going to give you the plays.

I just don't know what they have, letting him go early in the year I thought was going to hurt them. But I don't think they have the scoring that they need, and I think that's going to hurt them. I think Miami could beat this team. I think they're limping enough that Miami could beat them. I hope it happens. I actually think that Milwaukee's got a good chance to win the final three.

But, I mean, Miami's not even favored. I mean, it's like a pick-um the rest of the way, even money, even though they're down 3-1. Last one on hoops. So Phoenix finished off the Clippers last night. My favorite player in the NBA and one of my favorite players in all of sports is Kauai Leonard. And he was legitimately hurt. It's coming out now that he had a torn minuscus and he missed these games. Stephen A. this morning was screaming that he should race.

tire. What do you make of Paul George, Kauai Leonard, the Clippers, but Kauai in particular, who is as good a postseason performer as we've seen when he is available to play? Yeah. Man, it's one of those Greg, Odin tells. At least we got to see some greatness. I think Stephen A. was a little harsh in the way he was saying it, but if he continues to get these injuries, it becomes in that territory of how much can he play? I'm sorry, when Kauai White is on the court. He's the most dominant force I've ever seen. He might be quiet.

He might not be your cup of team. He's so strong. He pushes guys around. Watch him with the way. He pushed Duran around for four quarters. He gets in a post and dominates him. He shoots the three and goes right back to the bench. He's a no nonset, go to work, come home.

God, I'm just mad that we as the crowd. We as the fans won't get to see this blossoming career be great. Because I do think if Paul George and Kowai was playing, The Clippers would win this series, but I'm sorry. Like, it's a lot. It's one of those situations is, damn if you do, damn if you don't, but he can't play hurt. No, I'm with you. I think after game one, I'm like, I think they're going to, well, Phoenix is tough.

This is a tough matchup, but I think the Clippers, if they'd gotten through this series, which they would have had a chance, I think they could have won the title. But we'll see. Devin Booker's on fire right now. Unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, most definitely. This was great as usual.

We should do this more often. Thanks for doing it. Appreciate it. Hey, any time for you. Fred Smoot, everybody. They pretty much broke the mold on Smoot. He's the best. That was fun.

All right, that is it for today. Thanks to Smoot. Thanks to Sam 48. Back tomorrow with Tommy. All draft tomorrow. Lots of predictions for you as well. Take care.