The Kevin Sheehan Show - No Coach Yet

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Kevin with the latest on the Commanders' head coaching search. Lots of thoughts on Mike Macdonald heading to Seattle and Dan Quinn emerging as perhaps the favorite to land the job. Ben Standig jumped on from the Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama with his thoughts and info. Kevin finished with Ben Johnson's first words on returning to the Lions.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Okay, it is late afternoon on Wednesday, January 31st. I gave it some time this afternoon to make sure that there wasn't any news as it relates to a new Washington head coach. But we are rolling on this podcast right now.

As of this moment, Washington does not have a new Washington. new head coach. The show today presented by Window Nation, call them at 86690 Nation, or head towindonation.com. Mention my name, you'll get a free estimate, and you'll get access to their deal, which is 50% off all style windows, half price, and 0% interest rates for five years. 86690 Nation or Windonation.com. So, the list of candidates that they have interviewed twice is down to three. Cowboys defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, Lions defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn, and Ravens D-Line coach and associate head coach Anthony Weaver.

The big coaching development today, Ravens defensive coordinator Mike McDonald, is the new head coach in Seattle getting a reported six-year deal. As we told you yesterday, and as you heard yesterday, Ben Johnson, the offensive coordinator in Detroit is staying put in Motown to continue to be the Lions offensive coordinator. Bobby Sloick, the Texans OC, one of the people Washington had interviewed twice, is also staying in his current digs with the Houston Texans as their offensive coordinator. Right now, Washington is the only team in the NFL at this moment without a head coach. My goodness, my goodness, guess is Dan Quinn. I believe Dan Quinn will be the new head coach. I only say that because of what I

learned and shared with all of you roughly a week and a half ago, and that is that Quinn was super impressive in their first interview. I had someone tell me that day, and I shared this with all of you a week into half ago, that that person told me that Quinn was their plan B if Ben Johnson fell through. But I don't know for sure. It's possible that Anthony Weaver on Monday or Aaron Glenn last night blew them away, and one of those guys will be their next head coach. It's possible that there's somebody that they haven't interviewed yet, that they will now interview who could end up being their head coach. So what do we think? I know from my radio show this morning into this afternoon on the Team 980, taking many calls.

I know from social media. I know from conversations yesterday, last night, today with friends and interested fans, that there are many perspectives on this head coaching search right now. My perspective, simply put, is this. For much of the last 20 years, I wouldn't say all. all 25 of the Dan Snyder years. But for much of the last two decades, I haven't been able to allow myself to give this organization the benefit of the doubt.

Because why would I? They proved over and over again that they got it wrong much more often than they got it right. Now we're in a position to allow, I think, for some benefit of doubt. It's not mandated that you give them the benefit of the doubt, but it makes sense to me given that, look, all of us would have gladly traded Snyder for anybody if the trade up front required that we give that anyone the benefit of the doubt for a few years. We would have paid for that opportunity. The trade, here it is, a year ago. All right. You, as in fan base, we, we get Snyder selling the team. That's what we're getting in the trade.

And what we have to commit to is we have to commit to allowing the benefit of the doubt, aka being patient for a period of no less than two years. That trade is accepted. Let me think about it. Yes, in like a second and a half. if we were offered Snyder sells, but you got to be patient with the new group, got to give them some time, got to give them the benefit of the doubt for two years, we would have taken it. And of course, we should have taken it. And we should be happy with that right now. My MO for right now is benefit of doubt,

especially when it comes to the things like a head coaching search, which includes a candidate field with mostly guys who have never done. it before. I've been saying this for the last month and a half. These guys, Slowick and Johnson and McDonald, I'm not saying that all of you didn't know their names. Ben Johnson, we knew from last year, because he was a hot candidate in the 20-23 hiring cycle. But for the most part, a lot of these names, I bet you any amount of money, most of you, had no idea who Dave Conallis was, the guy that took the Carolina job until, I don't know, late in the season when it looked like the Buccaneers might be in the postseason and Baker Mayfield was playing pretty well.

Now, when we get to free agency, of course, we're going to have some opinions on the players they sign, on the players they don't sign. Why? Because we watch these players and we're in the business of having opinions as fans, as talk show hosts for sure. You know, we live for having an opinion on those things. draft will have opinions. Damn, I really wish they had taken the tackle from USC instead of the linebacker from SMU.

Even though, even in most of those cases, we don't know anywhere near what they know. It doesn't stop us. It never will. But even if they pick a guy that I don't like, there will be benefit of doubt until they prove that they don't deserve it. And that's going to take some time. That's my current state when it comes to all of this. Dan and Vinny, Dan and Bruce, Ron and Ron, they didn't deserve it.

This group, they don't have a track record yet. I'm going to let them get out there and run for a little bit. What's been fascinating to me over the last 24 hours, though, is some of the other perspectives. You know, the group that is, and this includes some of you, the group that's so upset, so critical, so accusatory, so panicked about the way things have gone down. I'm not being flippant when I say, you know, some of this I do believe is just a result of, you know, a very traumatized and damaged fan base, some type of fan PTSD. You know, after years of expecting the worst and getting the worst, it's just too soon at this point to expect something different. But I mean, two weeks ago, the new GM, Adam Peters, was being hailed in every corner of the deal. as one of the great gets of all time or in recent memory in the first real indication that a new day

had arrived. I mean, that was only 15 days ago. Finally, a real GM, finally a guy that had lots of options, but chose us. We got our guy. We believe, do your thing, Adam, we're behind you a thousand percent. That was just 15 days ago. It didn't last very long. for some of you. I got this from Seth yesterday after they didn't get Ben Johnson. Kevin, same old team, couldn't get their guy. Total disaster. If it's Quinn, they have failed on their first real mission.

If it's Quinn, then our new owner and first GM in my lifetime basically hired Ron Rivera number two, a terrible signal to the fan base. This from a friend of mine who texted me after they didn't. get Ben Johnson yesterday. Are you kidding me, Kevin? They waited nearly a month for this guy and didn't get him. This process has left them with egg covering every square inch of their organizational face. Did they let Jason right handle this? I'm so disappointed. And now what? Dan Quinn? See how that flies with the on the fence crowd. He and I always refer to the people that aren't sure yet as, you know, kind of straddling the fence right now. A lot of those people.

are all about the name. But some of them are just waiting to see what happens here with the new regime. I got this today from Colin after they didn't get Mike McDonald, which kind of rang the bell for round two of apoplectic rage. You know, panic today after McDonald went to Seattle. Colin writes, no Johnson, no McDonald, no Sloic, no hope. This is a disaster. The perception of the organization hasn't changed.

at all. Now I understand why Philadelphia fans don't like Josh Harris. He's cheap. He's a bottom line guy. He's going to hire the guy that has no other options. Dan effing Quinn, or even worse, just give the job to Be Enemy, who he's already paying. Clown show. Colin, my man, I mean, he did pay Peters. He's not that cheap. He got Peters. I think you were excited about that two weeks ago. Peters had options. By the way, you know, many of you said that hiring the GM was much more important than the coach anyway. I did this Twitter poll a few weeks ago, and I said, what's the most, or asked, what's the most important offseason addition? GM head coach, quarterback at number two.

GM was number one, quarterback was number two, and coach was three. Oh, Colin. I mean, I mean, sip on some chamomil tea or something. Zanax maybe. I mean, how do you even know for sure that they wanted McDonald or Sloic? I think just the reactions from these last 24 hours, the real, you know, frightened, disappointed, panicked, et cetera reactions. It's like, as I said to Tommy yesterday, it's like schizophrenic or bipolar or whatever those things are.

You know, it's like last week, two weeks ago, euphoric and the last 24 hours, like majorly depressed, angry, panicked. By the way, Ben Johnson didn't pick somebody else over Washington. He chose to stay in Detroit and not become a head coach. And from what I understand, and I said this yesterday, he wasn't the sole focus of the team's search as many had been reporting all along. I bought into that that Ben Johnson was the number one target and that, you know, it was a done deal if, you know, he wanted the job. And I think I said, it seems like it's 80% there. But 15 days ago, I mean, champagne corks popping over the Adam Peters hiring, Josh Harris is the man. for landing Adam Peters.

And here we are in the last day. What the hell is Adam Peters doing? How the hell is he getting shut down by Ben Johnson? How didn't he get Mike McDonald? How the hell is Dan Quinn even a possibility? None of you really know anything. I don't know much more. A ton of people with much more access than any of us

were completely shocked by Ben Johnson's decision to stay in Detroit. maybe not Adam Schaefter, maybe not our own Ben Standing, who's going to be on with me in the next segment. But the Johnson decision to not take the head coaching job, or to not take a head coaching job, was a stunner to most people. You know, it's possible that he didn't want Washington or Seattle. It's also possible that Washington didn't want Ben Johnson. and it's also possible, as I mentioned on yesterday's show,

that Ben Johnson just doesn't want to be a head coach right now. And has wrestled with this for weeks all the while, trying to do his part and getting his team to the Super Bowl, he's been a little preoccupied the last few weeks. He is a human being focusing on these interviews and how he feels and doing research on which team would make more sense. I mean, he's got an agent, I understand, but he's been preoccupied. He's been focused, dialed in.

Did he have to wait until the team was in the air to tell them that he was staying in Detroit? Maybe not. Maybe not. If I were advising him, I would have told him to make sure to address the Washington contingent when they got into town last night to interview Aaron Glenn. I would have said, you got to go to them face to face and say, this is what happened and this is why I made this decision and I really appreciate the interest. You know, I don't know if that happened or not. Maybe it did happen. But it would have been the right thing

for him to do if indeed his letting them know was initially a little less formal and maybe a little less professional because I don't think it's that professional to kind of wait until Washington's in the air heading to come to see you. Now they were coming to see Aaron Glenn too. I hope that he's got a real reason for that for his sake. I don't have anything against Ben Johnson. If Ben Johnson in a second straight year of being a hot candidate, if he doesn't want to coach right now, He's got reasons for that. If it's because he didn't get the money he was asking for, I don't know that that was it.

My hunch is that it was much more than something like that. Maybe he didn't like the opportunities, but there were other opportunities for him other than Washington in Seattle. He was requested to be interviewed by multiple teams during this hiring cycle. But look, if it's not a perfect match, you know, I would have hoped that Washington would have figured this out anyway. They would have gotten a vibe if they had sat down and interviewed him and gotten the vibe that he doesn't really want to be a head coach

or he doesn't want to be working for us. They may have come to this conclusion with an interview or without an interview. What we should all be hoping for is the right guy, the right guy for the group that's in charge right now. Because the head coach is not going to be in charge. He's going to be working for the general with, but really for the general manager and the owner. I mean, I really in some ways think this whole thing with Ben Johnson may have been a blessing in disguise. You know, I mentioned yesterday after the show, or before the podcast yesterday with Tommy,

that I had learned after talking to a few people that, you know, Dan came. Campbell was the alpha. Of course he was. And somebody said to me, he wasn't the biggest voice in the room. He was the room. And Aaron Glenn was a close second. Johnson just wasn't that guy. And perhaps being around those two, it kind of magnified in his own mind, hey, I don't know if I'm ready to lead a team like these guys. You know, I don't know if I'm ready to, you know, be the number one communicator, the number one disciplinarian, the number one responsibility. for everybody in the building guy. I like going into a room on Monday morning, shutting my door and coming out on Wednesday with a brilliant game plan to beat our next opponent. I don't know. Maybe Ben Johnson is selling himself short.

Who knows? I'll tell you, for him, though, after two years of being the hot candidate, Tommy and I talked about this yesterday, there's no guarantee he's going to be the hot candidate next year. He may have missed his opportunity. Maybe he doesn't care. Maybe he feels like he's built to be a number two, not a number one.

There are no guarantees that he'll be the number one candidate next year. Detroit could have injuries. They could fall to seven and ten. There could be two teams that were supposed to suck. Maybe Carolina with Dave Canales and his new OC leading Bryce Young into a great year two. And that new OC becomes the hot guy. I got this from Vic. Vic said, Ben Johnson is dead to me, hope he never gets a job.

Now, I don't understand that kind of thinking at all. That is just wasted energy. And it's, he didn't pick another team. And it's not like we know for sure he led Washington down, you know, a path of believing they were going to get him and then pulled the rug on him. It's possible that that happened. But again, he's been a little preoccupied. I can't imagine that Washington and their head coaching search has been his top priority over the last three weeks.

He may just be one of those guys that is super comfortable and doesn't like change. Okay, maybe. As far as McDonald goes, he got six years from Seattle. Maybe Washington was opposed to six years. Or maybe McDonald wanted Seattle's young and talented defensive roster. Or maybe just maybe Washington wants someone else more than. then they want McDonald. So him going to Seattle wasn't as big of a blow as many people apparently think it was.

Maybe we'll find out what happened on the Johnson and McDonald fronts. Maybe we won't. I can tell you this, when they announce their new head coach whenever it happens, they'll probably tell us this was the guy we wanted all along. It might not be true. But I think those of you that think that whomever they hire is like, their seventh or eighth choice. That's just ridiculous.

That's just not true. My hunch is that they waited to interview Johnson, had to wait because he couldn't be interviewed in person until this past Monday. They lumped in McDonald, Weaver, and Glenn because they were impressed enough with them in their virtual interviews to see them in person. And part of it may have been, hey, you know, from a negotiation standpoint with Ben Johnson, we don't want him to think that he's the only guy that we have as a possibility. As far as Quinn goes, as I've told you, for a week and a half, I know they liked the interview a lot.

And so do a lot of people around the league like Dan Quinn. But Washington was willing to wait on an interview with Johnson because they were intrigued and perhaps got the feeling from Johnson and his people that they were interested in Washington as well. That's possible. If it is Quinn, I will believe, not naively, but with more information than many of you have, that he was near the top of their list all along. Johnson may have been their number one, but you have to think, given the way this went down the last 24 hours, that Johnson wasn't a lock, and that they had to know to a certain degree that he wasn't a lock for them. The public perception of the Johnson pursuit probably didn't match up with the reality of it. This from Blaine, Kevin, listen to you this morning.

I think trying to explain this away as if it wasn't botched is way out there. Of course they botched this. They didn't get their top choices. It's lame that you don't see this. Blaine, the only thing that's lame is being convinced that they botched this because they didn't get a guy that might be too scared to coach right now. And another guy who decided not to coach right now, Slowick. And another guy, McDonald, that actually did choose to coach, but you have no idea

more than my wife does if Washington wanted him over a proven guy like Dan Quinn. But, you know, Blaine, you might be sort of right. You might be kind of right. Because, of course, I don't think it's been botched, but of course it's possible they didn't get their number one. I wouldn't call that a botch. It's possible that they didn't get their number one and number two, maybe. I wouldn't call that a botch, really. You know, they are still the, you know, Washington whatever's playing in a shit stadium with average at best facilities in Ashburn, with a fan base that pretty much left the team during the Snyder years and at best is only

half back, a roster that has a ton of holes. You know, that's not super attractive. Now, the draft picks and the number two overall and the salary cap space and no Dan Snyder, very attractive. If it's true when they really didn't get the top guy or top two guys that they really wanted, maybe it's because this wasn't the best job opening during this cycle. Maybe it was only the third or the fourth best. Maybe that's why they didn't get their number one or number two. As I've said all along, my preference was more an offensive guy, and if it had been Ben Johnson, I would have been fine with that because I've enjoyed watching him develop Jared Gough and their offense.

But again, I'm benefit of the doubt right now. I am benefit of the doubt guy. I do have just one tiny, tiny knit to pick, all right? when I was having a conversation yesterday about Ben Johnson, which I shared yesterday and just shared again, about sort of why maybe Ben Johnson wasn't thinking he was ready to be a head coach. Somebody mentioned to me, I am surprised that they didn't interview Dave Canales. Dave Canales was the OC in Tampa Bay this year. He did a great job with Baker Mayfield, working for Todd Bowles as the offensive coordinator. and the year before he was the quarterback's coach in Seattle for Gino Smith's pro bowl season. And so this guy did say surprised that they didn't include him.

And I guess the small knit to pick would be maybe just another offensive guy or two that they could have included on the list. Like Canales, I would have loved Racine Vrable interviewed. Um, somebody, Kevin pointed out to me, uh, Kev, if you're listening, Kevin's a big listener and, um, sends me a lot of stuff all the time. He said that it's very possible that Ran Carthon, who is basically the head of football operations now in Tennessee, the ownership in Tennessee decided to stick with Rand Carthon, get rid of Rabel. Carthon worked with Adam Peters in San Francisco. So perhaps that's why they're not. interested in Vrable. Adam Peters heard from Rancarthon that Vrable maybe was difficult or wanted

more control, whatever. If it is Quinn, I think the idea that Dan Quinn is Ron Rivera number two is off. They are defensive guys. Their resumes are kind of similar. Actually, Ron's was better record-wise. They are both around the league, widely respected and well-liked. But Ron was hired by Dan. Ron was the coach. Ron was the GM. Ron was coach-centric Ron and given control. Ron came here as a CEO coach and had to work in an organization owned by Dan Snyder. Quinn would be the first hire of a new owner, of a new owner's highly thought of general manager.

He would be the coach, not the CEO. Hopefully his staff won't be what works. Ron staff was, which was Carolina North. I don't think, I think there are some similarities, but I think there are a lot of things that are completely different, you know, most notably that he's working in a completely different organization than the one Ron Rivera was hired by. Now, if you're just going apples to apples on coaching resumes, yeah, there are some similarities there.

It's true. Dan Quinn, let's not forget. I'd like to forget the last game if he becomes head coached. The last game that he coached is Dallas's defensive coordinator. But he totally turned Dallas around when he replaced Mike Nolan as the defensive coordinator. The Cowboys have had high-level defensive football teams under Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn in Atlanta as a head coach had more success when he had Kyle Shanahan, when he had Steve Sarkesian, who replaced Kyle when Kyle got the San Francisco job.

When he didn't have the top-notch coordinator, things went south. So hiring an OC will be huge if it is Dan Quinn or if it's Anthony Weaver or Aaron Glenn. They're going to have to get a big-time OC because they're going to be picking a quarterback here. Brian Schottenheimer was the offensive coordinator in Dallas recently. And remember, Mike McCarthy took over the play calling responsibilities. Maybe Brian Schottenheimer would want to come here. I'm sure that would thrill our fan base. How about Brian Greasy, the guy that discovered, according to all of the reporting, Brock Purdy

and got San Francisco to select Brock Purdy in the seventh round and coached up Brock Purdy. Maybe he's ready to be an offensive coordinator. Team Martin, Byron Leftwich. How about Frank Reich? How about this? Greg Roman paired with Jaden Daniels. Hoo-hoo! Sheehan loves him.

himself some Jaden Daniels. I like Drake May, too. I like Caleb Williams also. But yes, I do love Jaden Daniels a lot. I am very, very intrigued with how he gets evaluated by these teams. But anyway, Greg Roman was not

a Baltimore favorite at the end, even though he did a great job with Lamar Jackson. Receivers hated to play in the system with Greg Roman. There's that. But I bet you, Baltimore fans on Sunday wish Greg Roman had been calling plays because they would have run the football a lot more. Oh, there's one other thing I wanted to touch on real quickly

before we get to Ben. John Kime reported today Martin Mayhew is staying with the commanders. No title at this point. Remember, he's still got the general manager title on the team's web page that really upsets Tom. This upset a lot of you. I don't know why. I mean, we kind of knew that Martin Mayhew staying because he had worked with Adam Peters in San Francisco was a possibility. Again, 15 days ago, whatever Adam Peters does, we're all behind you. He's going to keep Martin Mayhew and some of you are upset? I don't get that at all. Ron Rivera is the one responsible for everything that happened, and Adam Peters is going to be responsible for everything that happens moving forward. Marty Herney also could stay on, according to Nikki Javala, unclear in what

capacity. I think it was like a month and a half ago that I mentioned to all of you that I was told that Herney was a guy that Josh Harris was really leaning on for, you know, kind of football advice. Herney's been in the league a long time. I don't know, really, I can't speak to the players that Herney was responsible for or Mayhew was responsible for versus Ron or scouts or big decisions. I, you know, there was that video that they shot remember during the draft in which you've got Martin Mayhew and Ron going back and forth about a potential trade-up. But remember, what was really clear about that conversation in that video is that Ron was in charge. Martin was just doing what Ron told him to do.

I'm not upset about the Martin-Marty combo potentially staying on at all. Again, Adam Peters, most sought-after general manager candidate in the hiring cycle, Washington hires him. And the first thing he does is decide to keep Martin Mayhew, who he worked with in San Francisco, and we're going to be critical of that? No, I'll wait until he drafts somebody that I thought sucked in college. All right, Ben Standing next right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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I think it is. Is it Super Bowl 58 or Super Bowl 59? I think it's Super Bowl 58. For Super Bowl 58 is San Francisco minus 2. I predicted that if we saw movement in the point spread, it would go the other way. We have a half-point jump at my bookie. San Francisco goes from one and a half to a two-point favorite. That's surprising to me.

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How long are you down there for? Are you down there through the game? No, I'll leave tomorrow. The game from a media perspective is really not that interesting. It's the practices, and obviously this year, because of what's going on. The practices, to me are not even relevant too much. But, yeah, that's what we're here for. And then obviously all the teams are here for the most part, and you have a chance to meet up with the various, you know, coaches,

you know, scouts, anybody you can talk to. but yeah the game is not a thing. All right. As we are recording with Ben right now, as I mentioned in the open, Mike McDonald is the new coach in Seattle. Washington is the last team. As of now,

without a coach, you're down there in Mobile, Senior Bowl, coaches, agents, league people. What are you hearing about what's next? Well, first of all, it's, you know, ironic, right? The Adam Peters hire was over in a blink

of an eye, right? They fire Ronnevere on a Monday, and by that Friday, Adam yours was, you know, they'd agreed their terms with him. This is the opposite of that. Now that way has it gone on for a while, which is not necessarily they're doing. They had to wait for teams to get, you know, eliminated from the playoff. But, um, but yeah, I mean, here we are. Like, they're the last team to make a move. And, you know, I guess if I had to guess right now, I would guess Dan Quinn, he was, you know, from the jump, a name that you heard about, and, you know, we can all speculate it for exactly what their pecking order was or their hopes and their dream. But, you know, right now, I don't think we can say with the definitive answers as to what

that was. You know, as we discussed the other day, the Ben Johnson noise, I'm not just saying that it was false, that they weren't targeting him. Obviously, they waited, and they were, you know, flying to Detroit to meet him. But, you know, there were some red flags, as we discussed, you know, over the last couple weeks about why that didn't seem to be the slam dunk that people were acting like it was. I think what's interesting, though, is, you know, we're all playing the perception game right now, or at least a lot of people are. And the perception will be that they're getting the, they're having the pick from the leftovers, right? And I would say that that's not necessarily true.

in that if you wanted to wait for Ben Johnson or even Mike McDonald's, you had to wait until this minute. And the teams like a Tennessee or maybe even a Carolina or Atlanta, either A, weren't interested in them, but more likely they recognized it wasn't, they weren't getting a shot at a Ben Johnson or McDonald perhaps, and therefore they moved on. So they're only left to an extent, one,

Ben Johnson bailed, I guess. And to wait for these names, you had to wait. You couldn't do anything last week. So they waited, and now they're here. And, yeah, I mean, it feels like a letdown to a degree if you're desperately wanting Ben Johnson, but it's not how it worked out. So what's your prediction? And when will it happen?

Like I said, I mean, my guess would be Quinn, to be honest, like, you know, Anthony Weaver and Aaron Glenn, you know, they just have not been on the radar. as much over these last couple of weeks on any level. In both cases, right, they weren't the main coach from their respective teams that any of us were really focusing on, not to say that

they're not worthy candidates. I'm just saying they really weren't the names that we were all looking at. So it's hard for me to sit here right now and tell, boy, that's who they're going to get, whereas Dan Quinn was more prominent. If you go back to when the season was sort of ending,

right, before we knew for sure like Rable or Belichick or even Harbaugh was in the mix. You know, Dan Quinn was like, it was Ben Johnson was sort of the hot guy, and Dan Quinn was the stable, been there, done that coach. Then they lost the Green Bay in a pretty ugly way, and that turned people off, you know, possibly foolishly, but nonetheless, that by people, I mean like fans. So, yeah, I mean, I think, I had a guess right now, I would say Dan Quinn,

but, you know, in terms of when, I mean, you know, look, I guess I would say today, but I don't know. I guess that, you know, is Washington legitimately sitting back and thinking, well, what do we do now? I don't think they are. I will say that, like, I just left the senior ball practice, and Adam Peters was there. So if he's there, I mean, he has a cell phone. He can have conversations, but if he's there, you know, he's got to, you know, as the GM, he's got to be paying attention to the personnel scenario of the draft.

But, you know, this is a huge decision. So if this is really like we're going back to his drawing board, I doubt he's at practice today. That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that necessarily. He's in Mobile. They don't have a head coach yet. Would he be in Mobile if he didn't have everything wrapped up? I guess it's possible that they're going to go see somebody else tomorrow or Friday,

and they'll just fly out of Mobile and head there. But I think, you know, him being there might be. an indication that we're on the verge of Quinn, Weaver, or Glenn. What do you say to those over the last 24 hours that feel that they have just completely botched this? Here's what I guess I would say. For me, this whole time, it was, okay, let's say Ben Johnson is the number one choice. The question that is, who is the number two? Now, maybe it was Quinn, maybe it's somebody else, but it wasn't like an obvious situation. And, you know, Jim Harbaugh, for those who were saying, what about him?

Once he brought in Adam Peters, it wasn't going to be Harbaugh. Harbaugh, you know, he brought in a guy to be the GM of the Chargers who he's familiar with, who will be his workhorse, but Harbaugh is clearly going to have his fingerprints all over what's going on there, whereas here they've decided they want Adam Peters to be that person. Great. I think everybody is excited for that, right? So they waited for the guy that everybody seemingly wants them to get in Ben Johnson.

So what do we know that happened for sure? What we know is this is that Ben Johnson bailed, and he didn't just bail. He'll allow to turn down the opportunity. Of course. He did it while they were on the flight there. He didn't wait for the meeting to take place. He didn't do it face to face. He did it in that way.

And I don't, you know, we'll have to find out more as to why that happened. But, you know, in talking to people down here in the Brown League, I mean, the number one take that everybody seems to have without knowing all the details about why Washington is the situation is that what Ben Johnson and his agent poll is completely unprofessional. That's what they did is just, you know, kind of stupid for his own reputation and his own regard going forward. You know, when Josh McDaniels bailed on the Colts a couple years ago,

he was hired. And then, like, the next day, like, nah, I don't want to do this. You know, that was like, oh, what the hell is happening here? He's kind of screwing the Colts. I mean, I guess you could make an argument that Ben Johnson did Washington in the solid if he was really debating it by moving on before they had to make a choice. But, you know, the idea that Washington is completely at fault here, I think is ridiculous. Like, again, they may not ultimately get the right result. I mean, you know, they may hire somebody that doesn't work, which, of course, is a always a possibility, but the idea that they squandered this, they screwed this up. Again, you'd

have to tell me, one, who would you have said that they should have definitively taken with the second one? And then if Johnson was there and two, what are they supposed to do? Everybody wanted to Johnson. They waited for him, and he couldn't even look them in the face to say, I don't want to do this. I think that's a pretty big red flag as to what he's about. And I heard you and Laverro talk about, you know, maybe he just doesn't have the right temperament for the head coaching job. That was my big question this whole time, and that's fine. It's good self-awareness if he thinks

he doesn't to not put himself in that position. But, you know, again, the one thing we know for sure is that he bailed on even taking the interview with a team that obviously has been courting him, interested in him, he's been linked to for all these weeks,

and, you know, that is not on Washington unless we find out, you know, something else led to this, but I find that hard to believe. So, you know, look, they may get it, whoever they're going to get at this point is likely going to be, feel underwhelming. And that's, that's an us issue.

It's not a, it's not a them issue. It's a, that's a perception issue. But, um, I don't know how I'm supposed to blame them for Ben Johnson saying, nah, I don't want to do this. And what, you know, you everybody wanted him. They waited. And when you wait, you miss out on other opportunities. But who's going to say, you know, think it's a week ago.

said, now, let's get ranking more before we even interviewed Ben Johnson. People have been like, well, that's insane. So, you know, it's bad luck to a degree. Maybe there's more. Maybe they are. Maybe there was a bad process. No pun intended with Josh Harris. But, you know, I don't know what you're supposed to do when the guy you're coveting,

or at least we think they're coveting, says, ah, I'm good. Yeah, I just think the perception that there's chaos, you know, that they didn't get this guy, they didn't get that guy, and, oh, my God, we're scrambling. I bet the reality is just much different inside that building in Ashburn. Yeah, and I would go back to the entire last month or so of this conversation about Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson. You know, as we discussed the other day, and you mentioned it a little bit earlier, you know, part of the reason why, like, I kept going, I don't know, I don't, like, I can't always put my, it's hard to put your finger on it sometime, but like, I've gone through this before, right, where you're talking to different sources and you're trying to get a feel for. what's going to happen and how strong things are. And, you know, I think a real typical point was when Boomer Ossison goes on television and

says it's a lock, they're getting Ben Johnson. And I'm like, you know what? This is nonsense. I can't get anybody in this organization to talk. And I can tell by listening to other people, they're all saying the same thing. So the idea that Boomer Ossison would say, it's a lock that they're getting Ben Johnson would say that he gave me that he is just hearing the same thing that everybody else. was hearing. Because there's nobody

was talking. People were not talking. Yeah. You know, and so like the idea that like, again, was Ben Johnson the favorite? Totally reasonable to think he might have been. Was he the guy they wanted? Sure. Could very well have been the guy. A lot. It's a given.

Get out of here. And now again, we're hearing what did his demand spook? Seems as Schefter phrase it. Maybe, if so, he's not a lock. Did Ben Johnson waver because he wasn't sure he wanted to do this, perhaps. Well, then he wasn't a lock. Like, I don't even, like, until somebody says to me, Ben Johnson wanted this, he told the commanders, you give me this money and I'll do it,

and he got some indication that they weren't going to. He said, ah, screw it, I don't want to bother. Unless you tell me that happened, then he was never a lock. He may have been the number one choice, but not a lock, and that's why this whole thing. And again, this is, you know, this is an example I keep using. Remember, obviously, 2020, we had already started to get some idea that the Washington, whatever they were called, that mom of the football team, whatever, that there was something going on, those investigations happening, or the Washington Post was going to drop a big story. You know, we had already reported that they had fired some of their employees, and now we're

waiting for this story to come, and because it got out that the story was going to happen, but it didn't happen for like another week or so. What happened? Crazy rumors started. Oh, my God. Jeffrey Epstein's involved. St. Insider and him, like, a hundred things were going to be said that were all insane, thus when they did put out their story about the allegations and the incidents that took

place in the building. It was a letdown. It was a letdown. Everybody was like, all this is a letdown. I'm like, well, that's because you... You're right. It's a big part of it. I agree.

Yeah, with no information, you ever just went nuts. And that's kind of what happened here. There was no information. So everybody just like, oh, I guess this is it. Well, what's taking it a step further as it relates to McDonald, I mean, you know, now the assumption is they whiffed on Ben Johnson and McDonald. I don't, I mean, Ben Johnson didn't pick Seattle over Washington. He picked not coaching and becoming a head coach. McDonald just happened to have been the next big coordinator on the list of the people they had hired interviewed twice. I mean, you seem to think Washington, and we talked about this as it related to Ben Johnson the other day,

that Washington is a much better opportunity than Seattle. I said that Seattle is not nearly as behind Washington in terms of the opportunity as maybe some had thought. But if Washington was the better opportunity and McDonald's basically lived in this area, I mean, maybe Washington didn't want McDonald. Maybe that's why he took the Seattle job. Well, also, like, I think it's all relative, right? Like, if you were Ben Johnson, you're like, okay, let's look at these scenarios. Seattle has Geno Smith, it was, you know, fine, but he's an older guy.

There's no upside there. Seattle was a middling team last year. They've been a pretty good organization, of course, for the last decade or so, very good at times. and, you know, they're closer to competing right now than Washington is. But they're going to have, Washington has the number two pick in the draft. If you're an offensive guy that's got to be pretty intoxicating, and the whole situation's open. But if you're Mike McDonald's, a defensive guy,

Seattle has a bunch of young, interesting defensive players, and they are closer to competing. And maybe he's like, hey, I think my system's pretty good. You know, one of the underreported parts about the Ravens this year was, like, it's not like they had some overwhelming talent. They've good, good players, but, you know, a lot of their guys, like, you know, a lot of their guys, like, Kyle Vanoy and, what do you call it, the past rush room, I'm biking on. Clownie. Clowny, right.

You know, these were guys that, you know, they kind of picked up off the street to a degree, right? And they were able to turn this into a dynamic team. So now, imagine if he can get younger guy, younger talent, to help him do that. So I think you could look at it in two different ways, depending on who you are. I think Seattle is better than Washington. But either way, you know, we don't know.

And that's the thing. There's just a lot of unknown here right now as to who was thinking what. You know, and like McDonald's obviously has gotten a lot of attention. He just got this job. But again, go back three or four weeks ago. Was McDonald the guy that everybody was clamoring for?

Maybe. But, you know, again, three years ago, they would have been clamoring for Arthur Smith or at various points, Josh McDaniels, or not to mention almost every coach that Dan Snyder hired. So, like, we'll see. I don't know what to make of it. I just think, you know,

if you're going to keep killing them over the Ben Johnson thing, you've got to start with that Ben Johnson and his agent really, you know, hose Washington first, and then we can kind of go from that. If it is Quinn, who do you think he would hire as his offensive coordinator? Have you thought about names and put together a list like you did, with Ben Johnson on D-Corordinators and staff? Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to have thought about it.

I mean, you know, look, you play the game of who's he worked with before or whatever. You know, right now in Dallas, Mike McCarthy calls the plays, but the offensive coordinator is Brian Schottenheimer. That would be go over like a lead balloon. You know, Brian Chottinheimer's not had tremendous success as a offensive coordinator. I mean, Dallas's offense has been very good the last few years, of course. but, again, McCarthy is the one calling the plays. I don't know that it would be Schottonheimer.

I don't even know if he would be in Quinn's mind. You know, beyond that, I don't, off the top of my head here, I don't remember thinking there was like a ton of obvious names. You look around, though, you know, could a guy like Frank Reich? I know that was a bomb this here in Carolina, I worked up Bryce Young, but in general, he's viewed pretty positively as a, you know, a teacher, you know, R.C. He was Carson Wentz's coach when Carson Wentz was near MVP in 2016, right?

You know, Byron Leftwich is out there. Is that something to consider? I don't have a ton of, you know, sexy names for this one unless they just go deep into the pool. I guess I should mention the guy that really intrigued me is Brian Greasy. He is the 49ers QB coach. Obviously, he's done some good things with Brock Purdy. And if he's, you know, to whatever degree, taking some pieces out of that Kyle shanahan off and, you know, that could be pretty interesting.

So I think he's somebody that... Hey, you just... You just... Okay, I don't want to lose this thought here for a second. Let's just say that Ben Johnson was really the guy that they had their heart set on and they really wanted an offensive guy, and Ben Johnson, you know, basically left him hanging and decided not to be a head coach, and they thought all along that he was going to be a head coach. And let's just say that, you know, Quinn, very impressive.

and a guy that they had as a plan B, but really is a plan B because they thought the plan A would work out. San Francisco's in the Super Bowl right now. Adam Peters knows that entire staff. Brian Greasy's been the guy really given a ton of credit for not only finding, identifying Brock Purdy, but developing Brock Purdy. He's moved up in that staff.

What if he's sitting there? here thinking now, I could hire Brian Greasy as a head coach. It would almost be like the Zorn thing. You know, he's been thinking about Brian Greasy as a coordinator, but why don't I just make him a head coach now? I know he's going to be a head coach at some point. I mean, that's insane because they haven't even interviewed virtually or any, and they could interview them now, right? Super Bowl team's assistant coaches can interview formally during this portion of this week. I think I'm right on that. I think that's right.

But yeah, I mean, you know, they've had all this time to, but I could have interviewed. I'm right. Brian Greasy has interviewed for offensive coordinator jobs. He met with the Saints, at least, I believe. Okay. So, yeah, I mean, they could have, you know, they could have had any of these people, also like Steve Wilkes, the 49ers, defensive coordinator with someone I wondered about a while ago. And, you know, I think one of the odder things to me about this has been

that they had seven outside Kansas on their list before they even hired Adam Peters, and then they didn't add to it. Yeah. I was one I thought maybe, well, I mean, Adam Peters can't be completely in lockstep with them, right? Like, there must be one person

that for him, he was like, hey, I really would like to have this conversation, but, you know, maybe not, I don't know. So they obviously didn't do that. Um, I keep saying seven. Obviously, Eric Pianami was or either as well, but I'm talking about the outside candidate. So, yeah, so all that part is odd. Yeah, it's, it is just weird.

Again, it just felt like they were on a rocket ship the way they handled the Peters thing, and now for this to be having dragged out again, not necessarily their fault, but just being dragged out. Right. To the degree that it is is really, you know, kind of wild. anything else you'd like to add to this? Oh, boy. You know, I would very much like this to get resolved today.

I joked earlier on Twitter. If this goes on for another 10 hours, Chris Russell will be going to start promoting Jim Hasl up for the job. And in 72 hours, we're all going to start listening. I would hope that, you know, they get this done. You know, look, it's hard to know exactly what's going on. I think one thing, you know, purely promoting, perception standpoint, if they were really going to pick Dan Quinn, do it before McDonald goes to Seattle, make it look like this was your call.

It doesn't matter, but I'm just saying if we're talking the perception game, I think that's the type of thing that would have helped. And, you know, I also think maybe from this, you know, look, the other day, there was this pushback from, you know, Adam Schaefter saying, oh, don't be so sure, you know, that this is happening, you know, I'm pretty positive of that. came from, you know, people with Washington to try to tamp down the expectations that had been running wild with Ben Johnson being the answer. I wonder if maybe they should have gone to that route a little bit earlier. Like, again, it's perception. It doesn't have anything to do with their

process or with their result. But, you know, if you're going to do that at some point, it probably should have done it a little bit earlier because I do think by the time that happened, it just became, boy, if it's not Ben Johnson, this just feels like a disaster, which it doesn't necessarily mean it is at all. all, again, Ben Johnson and his agent really, you know, a lot of people in the league are taking swipes at them for the way that was handled in the end. So, you know, maybe they've got to the bullet to some degree overall with the Washington, but that's not going to fly with, you know, people who are only sort of casually paying attention to this and wondering how come they didn't

get this guy there. Everybody said they were going to. They must have screwed something up. But, you know, that's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Yeah, it's interesting to think about it from the PR perspective, because on one hand, And I don't want them to care at all what people think. I just want them to get it right and build something. And if they build a winner, none of those people will remember how much they pushed back on this whole process. But to your point, they are still in that mode of trying to grow a business, trying to acquire new customers. And however it happened.

And maybe it happened because, again, he's... really was the number one target and they were waiting for him. But maybe it's best when you go through this process not to have a guy that is going to be the number one target for multiple weeks because his team is still playing. You know, it's got to be wrapped up sooner so that it doesn't hang out there that long. Because the Ben Johnson storyline of him being the number one target and him being interested in Washington and this was a done deal, has been in the works for two weeks. And yeah, and the first opportunity they had to interview him in person was this week.

So there probably could be some better management of that, even though I don't personally care, but they're building a business. And there's no doubt that it seems like, and I don't think it's just, you know, a Twitter thing right now. It seems like there is a significant percentage, I don't know if it's 50%, maybe a little bit less, maybe a little bit more of fans

that feel let down by this head coaching process. And almost have, you know, some level of PTSD. It's like, you know, this is the way they have felt so many times over a long period of time. And it's tough to shake. the damage that was done to this fan base. That's part of it. If we hadn't gone through all the trauma that we've been through as a fan base,

maybe we wouldn't, or maybe a lot of people wouldn't be nearly as frustrated with this process. And maybe they'd be lauding the fact that they're so patient and they're so thorough in trying to get this thing right. But anyway. Yeah. I saw some people on Twitter, you know,

viewing the situation as a letdown and therefore saying on Twitter, nothing's changed. New owner, nothing's changed, to which, of course, I would be like, you have got to be kidding me. Like,

I have no idea. None of us know if any of this will be successful or what's going to happen, but the idea that this is the same is insane. And also, like, about a week or so ago, I tweeted out of video.

It was I was watching an NBA, it was when the Milwaukee Bucks fired their head, coach randomly. Yeah. And Bob Myers, of course, he's consulting for the commanders, was on the ESPN set, and he was explaining about, like, sort of have these things go. And he's like, look, the number one important person is the general manager,

because that's who gets the players. The coach is important, but the talent is what matters the most. States, Washington has done that. They've got the guy that everybody is saying, yeah. Is the number one guy to get? So, you know, if you're, I guess at the end of the day, if it is Dan Quinn, and you're saying, so here's the result.

They got the number one general manager from the team that may very well win the Super Bowl that helped put together the most talented roster in the league, and the coach is the guy as the defensive coordinator for a defense that was top ten, I think, multiple years in a row. They led the NFL in takeaways in 21 and 22, and they were the number two seats in the NFL this year. That's the end result. Forget all the other, anything else.

That's the end result. This is a disaster. I mean, okay. I don't get it at all. You'll love this. Did you, because I bet you, I bet you've seen the movie Bad Teacher with Cameron Diaz, Jason Segal. Okay, so I had a caller to the radio show this morning. I think his name was Mark.

And Mark said essentially kind of the same thing. This just reminds me of 2008 with Zorn. And he's just going on and on. And I just, and I said, yeah, but it's different. That was Dan and Vinny. They have a real owner and a real GM and he said, it doesn't matter. And I said, it's the only thing that matters. And so a friend of mine during the commercial break texted me and said,

that's the Jason Segal line to the kid in the cafeteria when they're having the LeBron Jordan argument. And he says, I bet you're going to say he's got six rings. that's your only argument and Jason Siegel goes, it's the only argument that matters. And it's like, please, this idea that this is a Snyder

Vinny, Snyder Bruce production, stop. I mean, look, they may not get it right. They may end up being Dan and Vinny or Dan and Bruce. But I think we have to, after begging for this,

I think we have to just sit back and just let them go through this process and judge it two, three years down the road. Maybe they'll get it wrong. Maybe the next time they'll get it right. But no, this was not

this is not 2008 Zorn. It isn't. Okay? That's just a dumb dumb take. But then again, it's understandably dumb. Or let me just say, I understand it.

because people are having these, you know, traumatic flashbacks. You talk about a damaged fan base. I don't think any fan base has been damaged like this one. None. In recent memory in sports, I don't think. I don't know. Maybe the Nick fan base. I always compare the Dolan Nick's situation to hear,

although the Knicks are the hottest team in the NBA right now. All right. What else? What else haven't I asked you? What else have you learned from down there? Quarterback talk, anything? Well, one second, but like you mentioned the coordinator, obviously that's a huge deal.

And how they fill out the staff is going to be very important. So if there's one negative here kind of probably would be, hey, you know, have they waited too long from that perspective, right? because all these candidates that go in to talk to Josh Harris, Santa Peters, and part of the conversation is who is your staff going to be, but these people are humans. Like they have jobs. Like they've got to figure out what to do, so are they all waiting for Dan Quinn to get a job?

And, you know, who knows? But by the way, also, just one other thing, you just ask about the quarterback. We'll talk about Drake May and Jane Daniels for weeks and months now, and they'll make a pick and we'll see what happens. but part of what they're all having to assess is it's not just how quickly they run a 40 or how well they can read a defense or whatever. You're also trying to judge a human being and how a human being will evolve over the course of time. How will they deal with the pressure of being the number two pick?

How will they deal with the pressure when they have when they lose three games in a row or have a game where they throw three interceptions or whatever, right? The situation with somehow we don't take this with the head coach as well, right? Like, they're having to judge from weeks now what Ben Johnson is going to do. Did they know that Ben Johnson, the last game he was coaching, would be that his team would blow a 17-point lead at halftime and lose and the emotional distraught. I talked about that.

I talked about that. Yeah. How could you know? I mean, you know, I'm not saying if they lost by 30, that would be better. But I'm saying, like, who knows? Maybe, you know, what if they won the Super Bowl? Maybe Ben Johnson is like, okay, I'm ready, let's go. Who knows?

100%. It's such a hard thing to know. This is something that I don't, I think too often we as fans, media members, et cetera, just we don't consider the human element. I mean, first of all, this guy's been rather preoccupied for the last month. And, you know, I think you and I talked about this either on the podcast or on the radio show. Like, to me, the whole process of all of these. these interviews while they're getting ready for their most important games of the year. And Ben Johnson on that one day had like three or four virtual interviews.

I just found it odd. I mean, their sole focus should be on beating the Rams, beating the Buccaneers, and beating the 49ers. And it was. You know, and you wonder how much, you know, time he was able to dedicate to, hey, you know, I've had this feeling as to whether or not I'm ready. ready or not. I'm going to have to figure this out sooner rather than later, but I got to get ready for the bucks. We're playing them in the divisional round of the playoffs. I mean, there's a lot

going on there that we don't know. And anyway, all right, great job. Appreciate it. I will talk to you on Friday on radio. See you. Ben Standing, everybody. Just one or two final thoughts right after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you listen on Apple or Spotify and you've got a moment to rate or review us, it would be much appreciated. It's very helpful. Both allow you to rate us up to five stars. That would be great. Apple allows you to write a quick review.

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I'll do it with Tommy tomorrow. Tommy's more equipped to talk about it anyway. This just hit the wire. It is not breaking news necessarily, but it's interesting news because Ben Johnson has spoken. He spoke to a Monra St. Brown. his elite wide receiver. Amon Rae St. Brown and his brother do a podcast. And on the podcast today, earlier today,

Amon Rae St. Brown said that Ben Johnson called him Tuesday morning to say that he's staying. This was Amon Ross St. Brown. I'll read the quote for you from the podcast on how the conversation went. Amon Ross St. Brown on his podcast said, quote, I'm like, so what's up with you? Did you do an interview? Are you leaving? He's like, you know what?

I'm on my way to the facility right now. I couldn't sleep last night. I was thinking about it. There's unfinished business. And Amman Ross St. Brown said, he wants to stay. He said his heart is in Detroit. He wants to stay.

Closed quote. So that's the first of Ben Johnson's aftermath of his coaching recruitment. and passing on any of the offers, although I don't even know if an offer was made. And I don't know the timing of it. I mean, he's saying Tuesday morning he got called. Washington had an interview with Dan Quinn Tuesday morning in D.C. Then got onto a plane. I don't know if it was late in the morning, early afternoon.

Yeah, obviously, Ben Johnson, probably when he figured out late Monday night or Tuesday morning that he was staying in Detroit should have immediately said to Washington, you don't need to come for me. I'm staying in Detroit. All right. Done for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.