The Kevin Sheehan Show - Out: Gruden & Amodio

Episode Date: October 12, 2021

Kevin and Thom today opened with Lamar Jackson's epic performance last night on MNF. They got to the Gruden resignation and Washington Football's ties to it. They talked Ron Rivera frustration, Fury-Wilder, Saban's clock management gaffes, and the end of Matt Amodio's incredible Jeopardy run. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. Lots to talk about on this Tuesday, October 12th.

The show today is presented by my good friends at Windon Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. Buy two, get too free with no limit, no money down, no payments, no interest for two full years. I promise you it'll work out. They'll give you a free estimate. Windonation.com or 86690 Nation. So, Thomas, today was going to be one of those normal days where it's like, okay, what did you think of the game? Oh, did you hear Rivera yesterday?

Let's talk about some of what Rivera said yesterday. And it turned into a rather active night. It was already an active weekend, but with Gruden resigning. with an incredible Monday night football game, with an all-time performance from Lamar Jackson, and then, yes, Tommy, compelling major league baseball playoff action, which I was up to see the end of the Giants Dodgers game. But I'm going to tell you that...

Better than me. Well, it was by accident. I fell asleep very early, and then my phone started to blow up with the group. and stuff and with, oh, are you watching this Lamar Jackson come back? And I looked at my phone and I woke up and then I turned the TV on, which didn't make my wife very happy. And then I was watching the essentially most of the third quarter and the fourth quarter in the overtime of the football. And then Scott's Sports Center with all the Gruden stuff and then the Giants Dodgers

to finish up. The baseball game Tommy was so good. Max Scherzer was unbelievable. Seven innings complete, three hits allowed, one home run in the game to Evan Longoria. And it came in the fifth inning. And then the Giants had this closer Camillo Duval, who was lights out eighth and ninth inning. And the last batter for the Dodgers was this guy Gavin Lux. He hit a shot that he was absolutely convinced with two outs in the bottom of the ninth had tied the game. And it didn't. And it didn't, and it didn't even make it to the warning track because the winds were blowing at Dodger Stadium last night at like 25 to 30 miles per hour. And it was in the mid-50s. People were bundled up like they were expecting a snowstorm in Dodger Stadium. It was wild. In fact, I'm going to tell you right now, if it

wasn't the day and the night that it was, I would have wanted to spend at least 10 minutes talking to you about this game. But we won't. I didn't see the Red Sox walk off a series winner against the Rays. But the Giants Dodgers series, we get game four tonight, and it's, I don't know who's pitching for L.A. I would think it's Bueller's turn again, right? I don't know. Maybe it's not. Anyway, what's going on with you? How are you doing? I'm doing okay. I didn't really get to watch much of the baseball because I was fully invested in the Ravens game, which I did watch from beginning to end. You did? You watched the entire game. Yes. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And so what did? It was an absolutely stunning performance. You know, for a guy who nearly fumbled

away the game, when he fumbled on the goal line, as he's about to score a touchdown, and it looked like the Colts had ran it all the way back for a score only for it to be called back midfield because the lateral was considered a forward pass. After Lamar Jackson fumbled on the goal line, I thought, well, this is over. I mean, because the Ravens had looked really bad. Oh, yeah.

It was 16. and three. They were out of sync. They just, like, they were falling over each other, literally. You like the Ravens a little bit. don't you? Well, I mean, you do too. I like their organization. I don't, yeah. I don't like the Ravens. Don't do that to me because you know I will get so much from Washington fans. I don't root for the Ravens, but I very much. I don't root for the Ravens either. I really respect their organization.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. One of the best. And I love horrible. They have, they have a winning tradition. that just seems to take over for them. You know, and I mean, that was a remarkable comeback, overshadowing a terrific performance by Carson Wentz. Very good performance by Carson Wentz. One of the best of his career. He threw for 402 yards and two touchdowns, no picks. You know, this Ravens thing,

so I've had people accuse me in recent years. of being a closet Ravens fan. And remember when one of those years, when we were doing the radio show, when the skins were absolutely horrible, and we threatened to turn skins at one into Ravens at one, and we even did it, you know, jokingly a couple of days.

Yeah. I just love their organization. I love Bashati as an owner. God, I wish he were our owner. Ozzie Newsom was just flat out, one of the best GMs in all of sports for a long period of time. Eric DeCosta's excellent. John Harbaugh is not a good coach.

He's a great coach. He is developing, Tommy. And I don't want to say this without looking at his record. But my gut tells me that John Harbaugh is in the midst of a potential Hall of Fame career as a head coach. He has a 133 and 80 over. overall regular season records. So that's 624. He's 11 and 8 in the postseason with one Super Bowl win. He's been to the AFC championship game three times and won at once. And that was the year that they went to the Super Bowl and then they ended up beating the 49ers in the Super Bowl.

Is that crazy to suggest that John Harbaugh is in the midst of a Hall of Fame career? I don't think it is actually. No, it's not. Because unless something goes wrong, he's going to be coaching that team for a while still. You know, he seems like a relatively young man. And, you know, this is a franchise that has had three head coaches in 25 years. Steelers. This is what speaks to the Ravens.

Two general managers and three head coaches in 25 years. Right, same thing that speaks to the Steelers success over a long period of time. Yes, yes. So Harbaugh has nine playoff seasons and 13. Do you know there was a lot of discussion at the end of that 2017 season or going into that 2017 season because he had missed the playoffs two years in a row. He had missed the playoffs three out of four. They had had for him his only losing season.

Okay, he only had one losing season, five and 11 in 2015. And by the way, that followed a year in which they had the Patriots up two touchdowns in a divisional game. Nobody played the Patriots. Nobody played the Patriots in the postseason better than the Ravens did. They beat them and they should have beaten them more often along the way. He's had one losing season, but, you know, going into that 2017 season, Tommy, there was talk that that was it for Harbaugh. He was going to be run. And they kept him.

And at the end of that following season, he made the move with Flacco being hurt to go to Lamar Jackson and keep Lamar Jackson in there. And Lamar Jackson took him to the playoffs. And they changed everything they did offensively. And they haven't done well in the postseason with Lamar Jackson yet. They have, you know, he's one in three with Lamar Jackson in the postseason the last three years. But after the game last night, Scott had Lewis Riddick and Brian Greasy on. right after the game. I guess that's a normal spot for him after Monday night football to have,

you know, two of the three guys that called the game in the normal booth. There's been no Manning booth, no Manning broadcasts the last two weeks. They were planning on only doing, I think, 10 total this year. Anyway, Scott said, you know, what's your big takeaway from this? And Lewis got into Lamar Jackson and whatever. And Brian Greasy just said, the Ravens are winners. They just win and they always figure out. ways to win and they're never out of it and they're just winners.

And that's the way, that's what they've been under Harbaugh. I know they won a Super Bowl, you know, previous to Harbaugh, but they've just had an identity about them, like the Steelers have had an identity, a toughness, a defensive thing, but really what it is, they just, they win. They just, they win. Yeah. They're certain, you know, I mean, basically they've been managed to, they've managed to hand down in the locker room over the years a certain way that Ravens players do business on the field.

You know, I mean, pass from one generation to the other. They've managed to sustain that somehow. And there's an expectation, I think, when you come play for this team, that certainly is not expected when you come play for the team, you know, down south, the other Maryland team, and that they seem to sustain that. And, you know, Lamar Jackson, this is a franchise that drafted Ray Lewis and who was the off the ball-fay-tackle from St. Albans. Jonathan.

Yeah, him. Yeah, okay. Well, that's so pathetic. Ravens Hall of Fame, a Fame tackle. Jonathan Oh, Jesus. Jonathan Ogden. God. Okay. That is pretty pathetic.

Well, I mean, it speaks to how late I was up last night. But they... But they drafted those guys in the first round in 96. And Lamar Jackson may wind up being the best draft pick in the history of the franchise. I love Lamar Jackson. 30-second pick in the first round. I love Lamar Jackson. know what it is. We talked about this last week. There's something about him that I really like.

Of course, you can't stand him because he's an anti-vaxxer, so he's on your list. But I, there's, you know, he keeps, he keeps busting down walls, Tommy, you know. When they tell, when they say he can't do this, he goes and does it. If he, if they're behind, they can't come back because he can't throw the ball. You know, he's not, he's not able to throw the ball. So they certainly, if they're behind, they can't come back. He's done that multiple times this year, including last night. By the way, there were several marks that stand historically from his game last night. If you don't know about the game, because we really haven't talked about it,

the Ravens were down 22 to 3, and they came back and won the game 31 to 25 in overtime, behind Lamar Jackson's arm primarily. His 442 passing yards last night were not only a career high, but a franchise high. His completion rate of 86%. He was 37 of 43 in the game for 442 yards was the highest of any quarterback in NFL history with 40 or more passes attempted in a game. By the way, until last night, none of the 4,000-plus individual game passers with at least 40 attempts had ever even completed 85%. he was at 86. Jackson is the first player in NFL history with at least 400 passing yards and a completion percentage of 85 in a game. Okay? He was 86 in 400 passing yards.

It was just, it was incredible what he did last night. It was. It was so. It really was incredible. And how much do you think, how much money do you think he made last night? Because he's playing for a contract. I know. They've got to obviously. get this done with him. You know, I remember, and this is not a criticism of Cooley, I think it was a totally fair evaluation. And he also brought up something about his, you know, rookie contract. He said about Lamar Jackson coming out of Louisville.

He said, after watching the tape, he said, he's the best running back in this draft and the best running back in a long, long time to come out of this draft. He said, and he goes, I don't know if he can play quarterback or not, but he, if he were a running back, he'd be the number one running back taken and it wouldn't be close. And then what he said after like a year or two, he said it's a really difficult evaluation when you get to his deal. Are you going to pay him like an elite quarterback gets paid because he's not a traditional quarterback the way they play him? And by the way, in the moment, that's fair too.

now after what he's done this year and what he did last night. And I know he still has not won in the postseason. I mean, he's won one game. He's one and three in postseason starts. And that's the next thing for him to check off the list. But in the last two games, he's thrown for 758 yards, five touchdowns, no picks. In two different games, three different games this year, he's brought the team from behind. Now, the 66-yard field goal against Detroit should not have counted, but he made a sick

fourth and 19 throw to get them out of the hole and set that whole thing up. Remember, they were down against Kansas City in that Sunday night game a couple of weeks ago that was crazy by two scores, and Jackson put them on their, you know, put the team on the back, on his back, and let him to a 36-35 win. He's back in the very much in the MVP conversation. He's back in the very much in the MVP conversation again. And the next, you know, look, for him, he's got to have postseason success. To me, the quarterback position is a very dependent position. And I'd still take Dan Marino on my all-time Mount Rushmore Hall of Fame, you know, top five,

top four, well, Mount Rushmore would be top four, quarterbacks of all time, even though he never won a Super Bowl. But it's the way, you know, it's the way these quarterbacks get evaluated by a lot of people, even though I think it's the wrong way to evaluate, but he is, he's something else, man, and he is so competitive like his head coach. And they're doing this. Remember, all the injuries they had before the season even started.

My God, they lost everybody. They lost all their running games. They lost all their running games. They lost Jay T. Dobbins and Gus Edwards. And they lost some key players on the offensive line. Yes. Anyway, unbelievable finish to the game last night. Unbelievable finish.

And as Tommy pointed out, a game in which Carson Wentz had a phenomenal game. There was the fumble that you talk about, let me just mention because it was 16 to 3. It was early in the second half. This is essentially when I picked up the game after I woke up again. And they're down first and goal at the one, and he keeps it on sort of a read option play. He gets hit short of the goal line. gets knocked out. Then it gets picked up by Darius Leonard, who's flat out one of the best linebackers in the game. He laterals at about the 25-yard line to this dude, Rogers. And how about the speed on Rogers to outrun

everybody on the Ravens team to the end zone? They reviewed the fumble. I think it was the correct call. I think the ball was out before the knee touched. And then they reviewed the lateral. This is, for me, I don't know why this is so difficult. I'm sure there is a, reasonable, maybe even a mathematical explanation for it. But Darius Leonard's lateral went backwards. There's no other way to describe the lateral itself when it left his hand was going backwards. But by the time Rogers caught it, he caught it in front of the line where Leonard's lateral it from therefore it was called a forward pass i i know that somebody's going to tweet me and say oh she and god for somebody that you know claims to be you know his academic strength was much more

math than verbal which it was uh don't you understand the theory of this uh and maybe if i'm reminded of it i'll remember it but that lateral when it left darius leonard's hand was going backwards. You're right. It was. So what am I missing? I was surprised it was reversed. I was surprised they didn't let it go. It's because by the time it got to Rogers, right? There's this space time thing. By the time it got to Rogers, Rogers was at the same point in which Leonard actually had lateral it from.

were a little bit ahead of it. So a lateral became a forward pass while it was in the air. Yes. That's what happened. So anyway. Anyway, so great game last night. And of course, in the midst of the game came the news that, did Adam Schaefter break the news, Tommy? me, I don't know who gets credit for breaking the news that Gruden resigned.

I know the story came out in the New York Times. No, no, I think it was Tom Pelliserro. Palisario? Who's he worked? Oh, Tom Pellasaro. He's a good. He's a good reporter. NFL Network, right?

Okay. I think he's the one who broke it. Okay. So let's go through it chronologically, starting with Friday night. I want to see what you thought along the way, and I'll tell you what I thought along the way. Leading up to last night's New York Times story, which had more emails that were leaked. But the first email that was leaked was John Gruden having an email exchange with Bruce Allen back in 2011 where Gruden refers to the head of the NFL Players Association

Union, Demoose Smith, as quote, Damores Smith. And he said about Dumas Smith in this email to Bruce Allen, has lips the size of Michelin tires. closed quote. He said that he doesn't recall writing that email, but apologized for using that language, said he was really sorry, that he's not a racist, said he was upset at the time at the lockout, et cetera.

But what did you think when you read that story about what he said back in 2011 in an email exchange with Bruce Allen? Well, I wasn't thinking big picture then, but I was thinking that he's not going to be able to survive in his locker room. I mean, I don't know how his black players could look at him the same way, and just forget about that. So I didn't think he'd survive the coming days,

and it looks like the NFL made sure he wasn't going to survive because a lot more emails were leaked. once that was out there and I mean this is not an original thought that the NFL was not going to do anything they wanted the Raiders to do something yeah

that's what happened by the way essentially over the weekend according to the reporting the NFL wanted Mark Davis to make the decision and they wanted the decision to be that Gruden was either fired or forced to resign and then more emails were getting leaked from this trove of 650,000

emails, presumably, Tommy, by the league to the New York Times. Yes. I think that's a reasonable connect the dots. If you believe in the motives involved in here, and I do, that's a reasonable connected dots. When I heard it on Friday, I definitely heard, you know, a comment that wasn't a joke, wasn't, you know, using a homophobic slur as an example in the midst of a pickup basketball game by Kobe Bryant several years ago. Remember, that became very controversial. I heard something that was, you know, obviously very troublesome. I did not know whether or not it would cost him his job, but I did think it would lead to, as you said,

some issues for him in the locker room and maybe, you know, it would result in some sort of major apology with lots of sensitive training and other things. I didn't really have a strong feeling, I don't think, on Friday as to whether or not he would lose his job, but it was not good. And I felt very much like you did. Like, how was he going to deal with this with his players? So from the New York Times story, here were the other emails and some of what John Gruden wrote in those emails to not only Bruce Allen, who was the Washington football team president at the time. Also, it's worth mention. that John Gruden was not a part of the league. He was, you know, doing his ESPN Monday night football role. You know, you wouldn't know that if you listened to the ESPN broadcast last night. No, they mentioned it. Fairly. Scott mentioned it on the show that he was.

No, I mean, no, no, during the game. Oh, okay. Scott may have mentioned it during the game and at halftime. So, it was obvious that they were ignoring it. So, well, I didn't pick up on that. I definitely picked up on Scott saying during his show he was an employee of ESPN at the time. He was not a part of the league at the time. Whatever.

It's really, I guess that's really for the lawyers to figure out in terms of whether or not the personal conduct policy that's probably in his contract applies here so that they don't have to pay him, even though these things happened when he wasn't the coach. although some of these things happened in 2018, which means he was back in the NFL. So anyway, so the New York Times story came out last night, and here are some of the John Gruden emails to Bruce Allen and others that were involved in a group text, including the CEO of the time of Hooters. He referred to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell as an F,

the homophobic slur beginning with an F. He called him a clueless anti-football P-word. He said in an email that Goodell should have pressured then St. Louis Rams coach Jeff Fisher. Shouldn't have pressured Jeff Fisher to draft, quote, queers, closed quote, a reference to Michael Sam, Sam, the first openly gay player drafted by an NFL team in 2014. The New York Times also said that Gruden in emails criticized the hiring of of women as referees and also the acceptance of players of protesting for racial justice during the national anthem like Eric Reed.

And the story indicated that Gruden had also exchanged photos of topless women with Bruce Allen, including one of Washington football team's cheerleaders. The Bruce Allen thing will tie it back to Washington. But last night, if I had read this story before hearing the breaking news, news from Tom Pellasaro that he had resigned, I would have, to be honest with you, using that word to describe Michael Sam is a gots to go situation, period. And that would have been my immediate reaction. I just didn't read it until after I knew he had resigned.

Did you read it before you heard the news? Yeah, people had alerted me to the New York Times story, and I read it. And, I mean, my jaw dropped when I read it. It was such contemptible, contemptible language to type, to put into the atmosphere. I mean, you have to type that unless you use a voice command. But, I mean, literally, you know, when you put it in it, when you type something out, man, it becomes real. it becomes real and it's a totally different ballgame than when you're just talking to your buddy, Bruce Allen, maybe over the phone or on the sideline or something like that. So it was really a thoughtless, foolish, contemptible behavior by Gruden.

And, you know, it's a window. I'm sorry. It's a window into who he is. And, you know, who would want to be around that guy? Yeah, I think I agree with you on this. I think it is a bit of a window. You know, the comment about Demore Smith on Friday, you'd really have to reach to believe that he didn't know what that meant,

what the context of that meant, what that has meant in sort of a racial trope sense. I think the way he described Michael Sam, I think it'd be really very much a reach for him to say, well, I didn't understand that that was, you know, a pejorative or insensitive way to describe someone who's gay. No. And by the way, he admitted that, you know, he was sort of angry with Demora Smith at the moment. So this wasn't a joke. Like, he wasn't joking with friends and just, you know, joking around, which would have been inappropriate to begin with. But he admitted that he was angry, you know, in these moments.

Angry with the league. Angry with Demer Smith. So it gives even greater weight to the likelihood, this significant likelihood, that this was really the way he felt. And he was expressing the way he felt. So I do agree with you on that. Let's get to the Washington part of the matter here. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. I mean, for Washington, football fans for the victims of the sexual harassment that took place inside this organization for years, this is like throwing salt into the wounds that are still losing for these people for everybody. I mean, this is a reminder to everybody that this stuff was investigated and then covered up by the NFL, that we don't know anything.

What we know is what has surfaced in this email exchange between Bruce Allen, who's no longer with the team, and John Gruden. And we only know it from one side, pretty much, John Gruden's side. So this is like a double punch in the gut for everybody who was hoping there'd be some justice out of that Wilkinson investigation to me. and that can't be it. There has to be more. This just can't just be the end. Andrew Brandt said it on Twitter last night. This can't be the end.

There has to be more. All right. So a couple things. Number one. Those topless photos had to come from Bruce as part of this conversation, right? I mean, I guess they could have come from Jay to John, who sent him back to Bruce. but you know it's a reasonable conclusion to say that these photos were topless photos of cheerleaders that came from Bruce and went went to Gruden what you don't get in any of this reporting I don't

think you haven't gotten any of the responses from Bruce who was a you know a the NFL was the executive vice president and then eventually the president of an NFL franchise so I I'm actually surprised now that some of these other emails that may have included disparaging things about people in the Washington football team organization haven't been leaked because the only thing

we have gotten is essentially the league statement on the Beth Wilkinson investigation, a nearly year-long investigation, right? It lasted almost a year, right, Tommy? I think so. Yes, yes, we did. When they described it, and I'm paraphrasing at this point, just from memory, you know, the $10 million

fine, which was a total slap on the wrist, which Dan then had his people calling people like you to say, he wasn't fine, the team was, and he wasn't suspended, which I don't think he was. But essentially, the league statement, you know, described, you know, an unveiling of a culture of bullying and sexual harassment and a misogynistic environment for female employees. You know, intimidation was a word that was used in that. Bullying was a word. Sexual harassment was a word. It was a toxic culture statement. I'd like to see the Beth Wilkinson report too. The league statement, the league summary of the Wilkinson investigation was pretty damning at the organization. That's why when Snyder came,

like when Snyder came after people like you to say, he wasn't fined, and he wasn't suspended, it was the team that was, you know, this is once again my, you know, 10 year running long commentary. it's never them. It's always somebody else's fault. You know, even Tanya's appearance on Adam Schaefter's podcast, it's not our fault. You know, we're the victims here. It's always it's somebody else. You know, and it was, we've gone down the list. Marty's fault, Vinny's fault, Mike's fault, Bruce's fault, Jay's fault. You know, it's been one after another. It's never been their fault. But that statement from the league was pretty damning, even though we all wanted more. And I said to you at the time, and I certainly said it on this podcast, The league did itself a major disservice and did Dan Snyder a disservice by not fining him and by not suspending him. Their statement alone should have dictated a fine or a legitimate suspension that should have been made public. And it would have done them much better. It would have made them appear to have taken this bullying, intimidation, sexual harassment, terrible, you know, toxic culture more seriously. And for Dan, actually, it would have benefited him because it would have looked like he was,

actually punished for something because it didn't look like he was punished for something. Everybody, I mean, there's the feeling like he got away with everything. Right. And I think that, I think the league misstepped there. Now, maybe it was because Dan insisted that if they do, all hell is going to be paid because he's one litigious son of a bitch, as we know, and he was going to come after the league. But if that's true, it leads me to this. so no emails have been leaked, you know, and maybe there are some disparaging emails about people in the organization. We still, after a year and, you know, July of 2020 with the original post stories to date, we don't have one direct link to Dan Snyder being someone who sexually harassed somebody,

somebody who sexually assaulted somebody, somebody who spoke with racial or homophobic or transphobic insensitivity, somebody who said something misogynistic. All we have is an organization which he presided over, which definitely bullied, intimidated, and sexually harassed women. But we don't have any link to him. Is it possible? And I've suggested this to you before, that he's not a racist. He's not a homophobe. He's not a transphobe. He's not a misogynist. He's just a bad person and a terrible manager and a bully.

Is it possible that that's just the truth? And that's why there's nothing there on Dan. There's the $1.6 million settlement with the woman on the plane that flew back and there's confidentiality around all of that. I don't know if we'll ever hear anything about that. you know and and to me there's that that's the one I'd like to know because even if he wasn't the one doing something and someone else was doing something he was the most powerful person on that plane and maybe he could have stopped it and didn't but Tommy all of our fans this whole fan base

wants the smoking gun and we haven't come close to it yet maybe it's because it doesn't exist Well, I choose not to believe that because this guy, Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder partied together on yachts, went on scouting trips together, had their little put-put golf tournament inside the building there. And these guys were joined at the hip for years. And I don't think you would associate and converse with a guy like Bruce Allen and not have revealed that, yeah, You and me, buddy, we think alike. Well, by the way, they definitely think alike politically. They're both super conservative, but that's not what we're talking about here. No.

Here's what we need. Here's what you need if you believe, if you are hoping that there's some kind of justice to come out of this. What Washington football needs is a Francis Hogan. They need that Facebook whistleblower. They need their own whistleblower. They need some. somebody to step forward here and put themselves on the line if anyone's going to get any justice out of this. I don't know if they're out there, but this would be the time to come forward

if they're out there. Tommy, all of the women from the post articles, none of them directly implicated Snyder. They just said he, well, it's his organization. You know, he was responsible for it. By the way. But there are people in that building who saw stuff who have not revealed it yet. Somebody needs to step forward. Okay. That's what needs to happen. You know, the Bruce's buddy-buddy thing, you know, he's tried to buddy-buddy with a lot of people

because he's never probably had real buddies. You know, that's a projection there. But it's very possible. Let me, you know, repeat it one more time and that's it. but I'll add to it, that he's not any of these things that have gotten other people ousted. He's just a bad guy who is a terrible manager and treats people poorly, which I think we know, is super arrogant, and by the way, at the same time, like super nerdy. I think it's possible. I don't think it's likely.

You know, people like you described who want to buddy up and be one of the boys, they usually become chameleons. They usually become like the person they're trying to buddy up with. Right. You know, I'm projecting here like you just were. I mean, this is just psychological babble at this point. But my experience is people like that tend to become the person they're trying to be tight with. Well, is it possible that the people realized that maybe some of that discussion that they would have with John Gruden on an email was,

a risk to take in front of him. Trust me, I'm not trying to paint him into being, you know, an innocent bystander because he's far from it. He's wrecked this franchise. And what is absolutely, and I pointed this out with this statement, the bullying thing was really emphasized in that league statement. Because that, to me, those are the things we've heard over and over again as it relates to him.

his treatment of people. You know, I've never heard one thing about any sort of racism, homophobe, transphobe, misogynistic when it comes to him. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist. And for everybody out there that's been a long-time fan, we'd take anything at this point to get him out of there. And by the way, I believe the league would love to have him out of there. And what did the league do?

They actually gave him more power. Because maybe if they had tried to oust him on just being a bully or being a terrible manager, maybe he would have come back with, oh, really? And then we get into there for the grace of God go I situation. But that doesn't add up with their position of a fighting Beth Wilkinson, because according to what we've read, Wilkinson was very frustrated with a lot of the investigation and the pushback from the Washington football team. And B, it doesn't add up with the league just not releasing the results. But that could be because it implicates other people that have been in the organization.

It doesn't necessarily mean that it implicates or there's a direct line to him that would be the smoking gun we all want. I just think, Tommy, look, let's think about this logically. This franchise is the biggest train wreck right now in the league. It's an embarrassment to the league. It has been. We've already talked about lowest attendance, lowest percentage, terrible television ratings, always drama. You know, even this, the latest drama following the Ryan Vermillion and the other assistant trainer, et cetera. It's always something with this franchise.

You know, we have heard over the years that he does not have a friend. And if he has any, it's like maybe one, Woody Johnson. And they don't want him to be the owner. They want new ownership in D.C. So if there was something clearly there that was so, you know, impossible to ignore and avoid that would have given them the opportunity to oust him, why didn't they use it? Well, I think the same answer, like you said before.

Even if they had what they think is a smoking gun, he'd still come after them. he'd still sue them. Yeah. I mean, they would still have to deal. If it was that bad, I don't know. He'd still come after them. So if that's what they worried about, they'd still have the same fear. Let's go down a different path here for a second.

How are these emails from John Groon, between John Grun and Bruce Allen leaked? Where did they come from? Well, you thought the league. The league? No, no, no. No, no. No, no. The league the second set of emails from the, that we leaked it in New York Times. The league?

To put pressure on, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, the original one? The first set. Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Gotcha. That dealt with Demar and Smith. That was leaked to the Wall Street Journal. I don't know, what's your theory. Okay. Okay. The reporter for the Wall Street Journal who wrote that

story was Andrew Beaton. The guy that you mocked. Are you familiar? Are you familiar with his work? Yeah, the guy that wrote that ridiculously stupid story where he did an interview with Dan or the organization and suggested and understood Dan's desire

to get back involved because all this shit happened when he wasn't involved. That's the guy, right? Yes, the same guy. Yeah. What's his name again? The guy who wrote before Andrew Beaton, before all that group,

change, Dan Snyder acknowledges, he had to change himself and become more deeply involved than in the past when he was often distant from the management of his franchise. Now, isn't it interesting that the guy who wrote that puff piece and that the, the puff of all puff pieces, let me just say, I mean, it's just unbelievably embarrassing. winds up being the guy who breaks the story about the emails between Bruce Allen and So he brought the Friday story, the DeMoor Smith story? Yes. Okay.

Yes, he did. I find that curious. Well. Now, if you, let's really play with projecting here for a minute. If you're still pissed off at Bruce Snyder, and from all counts, Dan Snyder, you know, is still pretty, was very pissed off at Bruce Allen. You know, they became enemies after he left in particular and in legal proceedings as well. And you can't do anything to Bruce Allen in the league because he's gone.

You know, he's not working for anybody. What's the next best thing? Well, especially if you think Bruce may have been in cahoots with Dwight Schar on the campaign. Yes. what's the next best thing? He go after his buddy. Well, knowing that Bruce's name is going to be brought up in all of this again, and it's not going to make Bruce look good.

Yes. Yes. We may never know how – well, probably never know who leads these emails. But that's a curious connection that the same reporter that basically fawned over Dan Snyder broke the story about the Washington football team emails. I find that curious. Yeah, Andrew Beaton's story from Friday, October 8th. He was the one that broke the story about the email

that John Gruden sent to Bruce Allen, where he described Demora Smith as Dumas Smith has the lips the size of Michelin tires. So the guy that wrote a major puff piece, which you're 100% right, it was a puff piece, broke this story. So how does he get access to these emails? By the way, does Dan have all these emails? Did he have access to all these emails? Were these emails brought to him?

Were they shared with him? I don't know. I don't know if they were or not. Well, listen, originally, these emails were part of the Wilkinson probe. Yes. And I would think the Washington football team had access to what was uncovered in the Wilkinson probe. Well, they had to provide them to her. Yes.

So they have the emails. They're their emails. Right. You know, they didn't have to go get them from somebody. They have them. And Dan Snyder, like a bit like a boss, doesn't do. anything himself, he has other people do stuff for him, probably within the organization. So I just think, I just think if you're connecting dots, those are interesting dots to connect.

By the way, you mentioned Dwight Sharr and the Smear campaign. And I wrote this in my column following about the game Sunday. You know, Sunday was the Think Pink day. It was, you know, the breast cancer awareness day at the stadium. very noble and important, you know, venture and public service that the team does. The sponsor of the event was the Shar- Cancer Institute. And their name was all over the stadium Sunday. Oh, that must have made Dan and Tanya sick to their stomachs.

Well, I mean, Tommy, Tommy, they will take pain. from anybody for anything right now, given their situation. I say that. I do understand what the television revenues are. They're doing just fine. That's funny. Yeah, I know my admission to acting as if this is the first time I've heard this means that I didn't read your column, which is true.

I haven't read your column. That's okay. I would expect no less. No, I haven't read the column. You asked me to retweet it. You asked me, and I saw that this morning, I'm going to read the column, and then I will retweet it. But I want to read it first. Okay.

Is that okay? Oh, yeah. Like I said, when I sent you the message, I said, unless you think it stinks, then don't retweet it. Okay. Now, yeah, but I never think your column stink. There are times where I disagree with them, so I'm not going to retweet a column that I disagree with, but I never think they stick. Even though you write them in about three minutes.

So the link from Snyder to beaten the Wall Street Journal columnist, a reporter that wrote the puff piece on Snyder to Gruden is interesting. But I would bet, Tommy, that John Gruden has a lot of people out there with axes to grind against John Gruden over the years. I would just bet. But how many have access to these emails? I don't know. I mean, plenty of people probably in the league have had access to these emails.

It's quite a coincidence that they just happen to be. I love it. The emails from John Gruden come from Washington football. I would love that to be true because it would just speak, well, it would speak to certainly their relationship currently. It would speak to him essentially doing to Bruce what he accused. uses Bruce and Dwight of doing to him. You know who may be, who may wind up being Francis Hogan? Who?

Bruce Allen. Oh, no way. No way. No chance. Bruce may get so angry at Dan. Is he still getting paid? You know, that's a good point. I'm sure he signed probably the mother of all NDAs.

And I don't, yeah, there's no doubt about that. I also think, and look, this is just, just a guess. It probably is a slightly educated guess, but I would bet if there is a lot of just, if there are jewels in this trove of emails, as I said to you earlier, they may implicate a lot of people in the organization, not named Dan Snyder. And perhaps one of them would be Bruce. So Bruce became the whistleblower. It would all, It could potentially bring everything down on him, too. Like, I have a feeling that he probably,

he built that house or bought that house out in Southern California, right? He probably, this probably he's sitting back going, this two shall pass. I mean, it's all about Gruden. It's really not about me. There's, God, you know, there's, there might be a lot worse that he's that he's involved in. Let's just, let's just go out and play some golf.

and drink some, you know, Miller lights and hope this all just gets... I don't see him being the whistleblower. I don't... Probably not, but he's not... But he knows how to leak to the media, as we've seen here in Washington. He's a political... He comes from a political family. Yeah, with his destructive leaks about Scott McLuhan

that we believe, I believe, at least, came from Bruce. So, and he's not... Let's face it. He's not the sharpest pencil in the box. Okay. No, but he is savvy when it comes to politically and PR-wise. I kind of think he's devious more than savvy. Well, there's that too. I mean, you know, you just reminded me of the Scott McLuhan thing.

I honestly think that's one of the worst things ever done to anybody in this town. What they did and what they leaked about him in that post article was so mean-spirited. You know, calling him a drunk, you know, citing anonymous sources that said he was showing up to work drunk. He was on the side. For a guy that had an issue when they hired him not to help him was so revealing of what this organization was. I don't care what you think of Scott McLuhan. Okay. Scott McLuhan was sick.

He had a major issue. And they threw him under the bus. and then rolled it backwards and then put it into drive and ran back over him again in that post story. It was one of the worst, and it was clearly leaked from the organization. It was a terrible, terrible idea. It backfired so much on them. They thought that they would actually look better, you know, because it was all his fault, because he was the GM.

And no, it backfired because it made them look like hideous. mean-spirited people who needed to help this guy and didn't. I'm trying to find that article because, God, that pissed me off when I read it, because I knew exactly where it came from. It came straight from the organization, straight from the upper-level management of that organization. It was cruel what they did.

Yep. So, again, Andrew Brandt, you know, an NFL insider, somebody who's worked for the league, doesn't believe this at the end, that there'll be more stuff come out. Well, if more stuff comes out, I mean, it's not going to be about John Gruden. His scalp is, they've already got him.

You know, I tend to think, I tend to believe in the basest behavior of people. And I think that there's people who are going to react and leak their own versions of what they think people should know about. And I think ultimately this is going to backfire on the league, and it's going to backfire on the Washington football team. I don't know. I think the chickens are going to come home to roost.

I think that, you know, it could be the beginning of something because let's also, you know, remind ourselves. that Bruce Allen was someone that had a lot of relationships within the league. So there could be a lot of email exchanges with a lot of people in the league. I would not be surprised if there are more emails from the 650,000 leak that could be damaging to people. I am skeptical at this point, though, that there is some smoking gun out there on Dan Snyder. I mean, I'm rooting for it, you know, as dark as that may seem, I'm rooting for it. The best thing that could ever happen to me personally and professionally as it relates to the relationship that I have and the ties that I have to this organization as a fan and a media member, the greatest thing that could happen would him to be, you know, have to sell the team.

and but I just I'm becoming very skeptical that something really exists out there that could totally nail them. I think I was very hopeful about that plane ride. There's good reason to be skeptical. I get that. I get that. There's good reason to be skeptical. But I'm not debating. I'm not saying that you're going to be wrong about more of these emails being leaked and potentially being damaging to others.

Maybe even people who were in the organization, the time. Yeah, I think that we haven't heard the end of the Washington football email scandal yet, which is different from the Beth Wilkinson scandal, even though they're tied together. Right. All right. Let's talk some football team right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. It doesn't cost you a thing. Also, rate us and review us especially on Apple, Spotify, and Google, this segment of the podcast is presented by MyBooky, go to mybooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll double your first deposit, dollar for dollar. They've got a lot of good contests going on. They've got an online casino,

which you can play craps and blackjack and poker and everything else in. Go to MyBooky, use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and again, they'll double your first. deposit. What did you think of the game on Sunday? Were you there? Yeah, I was there. I was at the stadium. There was a typical crowd, you know. There were about, I mean, I got about 45,000 people there, and there were a lot of saints there. Typical, yeah. Forty-five thousand. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, what was stunning at one part, though, this was kind of interesting. When Washington was on offense, down near their own deep in their own territory.

So the Saints defensive linemen started raising their hands up to get the crowd to start making noise. We've seen that several times in recent years. I don't know if I've ever seen that before. Oh, I've seen a Philly and Dallas fans of players. That was really absolutely amazing. And they got their noise. They certainly got their noise. as football, you know, I mean, I said 35-24. I wasn't that far off.

No, you almost got it. It was 11-point win. You nailed it. Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, it's all, it's no particular great shakes. It's just a guessing game. But I didn't expect much from them, and they delivered. Yeah. Simple as that. Right. You know? I expected much more as you go. The quarterback got exposed a little bit more, as backup quarterbacks usually do when you keep playing them week after week. The problem is that's all they have on their roster are backup quarterbacks. And, you know, defensively, you know, I mean, I know the coach, Ron Rivera has said, say for four or five plays, we play pretty good, which is like the old saying,

other than that, how'd you like to play, Mrs. Lincoln? Yeah. So yesterday, his Monday Zoom press conference got a little interesting, a little bit testy. He was clearly frustrated. I think he was frustrated the day before in the press conference following the game. And I understand that on his junkies appearance this morning, sports junkies, that got a little bit tense-filled as well. but I wanted to play three sound clips from yesterday's presser and have us react.

This was the first one. He is asked about whether or not he, you know, there's a breaking point where he'd want to change the scheme or personnel or coaches. This is what he said. That makes no sense to me right now. If you really go back and look at it, and this is probably the first time that I can really say that you look at the game and say this was a, a matter of four or five plays, okay, on both sides of the ball. If we do certain things

and eliminate a couple of these here and a couple of these, we have a chance. I know you can't, okay? But to sit here and talk about stuff like that after, really, if you look at a defense, it would probably amounted to really just two plays. Okay. And to me, that's the way I'm looking at. I thought we took some strides. I thought we did some positive things. We did a couple of things that, you know, we needed to. Unfortunately, when it came time to do a couple of things, we didn't do them. We didn't execute it properly. Could we have been something different? Yeah, maybe. But to want to sit here and make wholesale, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me right now. It really doesn't. You know, and whether it's breaking time or not, that's a decision I'll make

at the time I think is right for us as far as I'm concerned when it comes to those types of things. What I'm looking at is, did we improve, do we get better? You know, I, again, I don't know. I thought I did say that we were a little immature. We had some things we had to grow and get better at. And I'll continue to say that. This is a young football team that doesn't excuse us for making the mistakes we did. But we do have to be better.

We have to be more consistent. We have to play better. We got to make sure we're putting the players in position to have success, guys. And that's the way I look at. Two things. One, I do not have any issue at all if he doesn't want to make change his five games into the season. Actually, three things. Number one, these questions are totally appropriate yesterday for him with a two and three football team that's closer to O and five than they really are anything else than two and three and a defense that has been garbage through the first five weeks.

So I don't have any issue with any of the questions that were asked at the presser yesterday. I think they are totally appropriate questions, questions, not tough questions, not gotcha questions, none of that. Number two, I absolutely have no problem with him saying that stuff doesn't make any sense to me right now. We're five games into this and, you know, I'm sticking with, you know, what I have right now. And, you know, you and I've had this conversation so many times over the years, you've got to have, to start booming people, you better have a solution. They don't really have a solution on defense right now as far as like another coach. No, they don't. And if you do have a solution, if you do think you have a solution, playing Kansas City offense is not really the time to bring it out.

Yeah. Because you're going to take a beating no matter what. I personally think that to expect him to fire Jack Del Rio or to start benching people left and right and make drastic changes after five games, with, by the way, really the first year of being in this system with a, full off season, et cetera. It's not, it's, it's not unreasonable for him to say, no, no, no, no. It's, it's way, way too premature for that. However, the third thing is this game was not a two-play game defensively, okay? This was six plays of 19 yards or more against them.

This was another horrific performance by the defense. There were individuals that played over. I thought pain and Ionitis and John and, you know, Chase Young had his first sack and strip fumble and that was a big play. And, you know, there were some, you know, individual plays, but it was another overall horrific performance defensively against, by the way, the least impressive quarterback they faced so far. If they had played Matt Ryan or Justin Herbert or Daniel Jones or Josh Allen, it would have been another absolute, you know, 400 to 5. 35 point plus day.

I mean, already was 33. James Winston threw for four touchdowns, and I'm telling you that he wasn't that impressive. You know, and yet they couldn't, they weren't good enough to stop them from scoring. He missed so much. Winston missed so much in that game that could have destroyed them even more. Anyway, Ron's delusional if he thinks that it was just two plays defensively.

It's just not true. And when he says, you know, did we get, you know, I'm looking at it as did we improve, did we get better. I thought I did say we were a little immature. He keeps bringing up the maturity thing. I think he's got to be careful with that. When he says, I'll continue to say that this is a young football team, okay, it's young in spots, certainly.

And, you know, but you don't need to make excuses. You just need to say way too early for that. We're not playing well. We've got to get better. There are a lot of things that need to be corrected. I'm totally, totally confident in my coaching staff. Jack's a proven defensive coordinator. I'm a proven defensive head coach.

We're going to get this thing worked out. It's just not good enough right now. But he got defensive yesterday. He exaggerated, you know, what Sunday was. there's no chance they looked at that film and thought it was two defensive plays and the other 54 they played well in. That just can't be right. You know, the two plays being the 73-yard touchdown pass to Deonté Harris and the Hail Mary. So then there was more. And let me play this next one and then you can comment after this one. This next one, he, you know, was asked by Ben Standing. You know, question, well, you'll hear the question and you'll hear the answer.

or here it is. Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, guys. Okay, I'm not going that way, okay? Just understand that. I like what we did. I thought what we did last week gave us an opportunity. Okay, so at the end of the day, what we're going to do is we're going to continue to work, guys.

The only way you're going to get better is to work and practice, practice hard, practice as best as you can, then you go out and you play. So, guys, guys, guys, guys, hey, who, you're really really. coming down on me today. Wow. I mean... What happened to all my friends? What happened? Are you guys, are you for us or against us? Yes. What's the deal here, boys, and girls? You want me to, let me play this last one and then we'll just, because let me get all three of them out of the way here. This was the last one on, you know, the role of a head coach when a particular unit is struggling.

Here's what he said. Well, you guys really want to go there, don't you? You know, the truth of matter, guys, is I oversee it, I look at it, I talk to the coaches, I've talked to the players. Okay, we talk about what we're doing. We go through all that, whether you're doing well or you're not doing well. It is a matter of getting involved. When certain things have to happen in the appropriate moment, when I feel that it needs to be done, I'll do it. It's that simple, okay? We're trying to build and create.

And if you're constantly mixing and changing and moving and doing things, you never really find out. okay if we had done anything drastically crazy last year um we did it after i felt that it was time to do it that and that's what we're going to do here uh yeah coach actually um we really do want to go there uh we do um and you can handle the answers any way you want but when you're two and three with a garbage defense when it was supposed to be better a lot better and your defensive head coach They're going to be questions. These are questions that are going to come up. He really, you know, Tommy, I remember we had these conversations about Mike, you know,

coming from Denver and Jay coming from Cincinnati and Ron coming from Charlotte. The next coach they hired, it's going to be a lot easier if they hire some dude that was in New York, Boston, or Philly. Seriously. Because they'll think this is a cakewalk. So what do you think of his overall answers? Well, I mean, I think he's gotten a lot of mileage out of being friendly to the media. And I think he was, you know, I think he was kind of taken aback a little bit.

I mean, because really, they are only two and three. Now, they're two and three looking at two and six before they wake up again. Okay. But, you know, coaches don't think that way. So, remember, Jim Thorne. looked at you like you were crazy when you asked if he was worried about his job after they won a game. Yeah, that's one of my favorite days. He was really pissed. He wanted to come over the table after me. Remember that?

Oh, God, yeah. So, you know, so I'm sure he's thinking, you know, guys, for two and three. You know, it's not like we're like one in five or something like that. So I think he was reacting like like a coach would. What was interesting, though, is one of the things he said on the junkies this morning was, this was an interesting quote. You almost want to say, I wish seven and nine last year wouldn't have been good enough to win the division. That way the expectations would have been much lower and a little be easier. This is hard. You know what's interesting is I had them on radio a couple of weeks ago, and I asked him.

I said, would it have been better if you had not, you know, won the division and had all these expectations, you know, raised. And he said, no, no, no, the experience of going through that. And by the way, that's the right answer. I think we talked about this last year on the podcast. I said, no, no, no, you've got to go for it here. It's a good experience for these young players to play in actual big games that means something like winner go home games, which they had against Philadelphia at the end of the year.

And then in the playoff game, I think it's a tremendous. benefit to have had that. And he agreed with me. But that has not been the case. Well, they don't seem to have gotten anything from playing in those big games. Well, first of all, you don't know if they got something out of playing in those big games or not. I mean, it wasn't a good team last year. And it's not a good team this year. when they get to the next opportunity, and that might be next year or the year after, they will have had that experience. That's what I'm saying. But let me get to the point here, because if he said that, this is a guy now that is feeling it.

I mean, it's year two. I talked about this on the podcast yesterday, that the most interesting thing about the next several weeks will be to see how he handles, you know, this situation, which is, oh, my God, this team is two and three, but it feels. much worse. And the defense is so bad. And he's a defensive head coach. And there's going to be some criticism and there's going to be potentially some issues if there haven't already been in that locker room with, look, every single time this has happened, it's turned into a shit show in this franchise. So how he handles it will really be telling. If this turns into a shit show over the next several weeks, well, he's no better than anybody else. If he's able to, to figure out how to handle it and manage a situation as just a bump in the rebuild road and he keeps it

on track, well, then we've learned something about him. I actually think he's the kind of person that might be able to navigate this. I don't like him admitting, and I'm reading the quote right now, you almost want to say I wish seven and nine last year wouldn't have been good enough to win the division that way. That way the expectations would have been much lower and been a little easier. This is hard. You know what? That's your fault that this is hard. You have to manage expectations. Forget about everything outside here. You've got to go to those players that you're worried about, can't handle the expectations. And you've got to work through that. You have to have picked the right people in the organization that can deal with that and understand that this league is year to

year if you don't have an elite quarterback. And things can change on a dime. And you weren't that good last year. He said it during the offseason. He said, one of my big concerns is that we're going to act like we've arrived already. Well, if that's happened, it's on him. Because he knew it was a possibility. It's on him because he gets to pick the players, Tommy.

He's got more power than anybody in the organization. But here's part of the problem last year with going seven and nine and win in the division. You play, I mean, tell me I'm wrong here. You play a division-winning schedule this year. Well, actually, of course, that's one of the, that's one of the things, one of the results of winning your division, regardless of what your record is. The bigger issue and the better, you know, complaint if you really wanted to go this route, would be you need a franchise quarterback.

There aren't really going to be any in the 2021 draft. There are some in the 20, I'm sorry, none in the 22-2 draft. draft. There were some in the 2021 draft, and by winning the division and going to the postseason, you cost yourself a chance at Mack Jones or Justin Fields. And really fixing

the problem, if you believed in either one of those guys. By the way, that's another thing that keeps getting talked about. Well, he's building it this block by block, you know, wait. No, he went after Matt Stafford, people. He offered big compensation to Detroit to get his quarterback this year. So when he says or anybody says, well, they're going to build everything else up, then they're going to go get the quarterback.

Well, that's full-hearty because you don't just go get a quarterback. But it's also stupid because he tried to get the quarterback this year. That's the one we know about. He also said they looked into Rogers and Deshawn Watson, and really none of the two were really available. If you want to say it would have been more beneficial as a seven-and-nine team not to go to the postseason and improve their draft stock from 19 to 12 or 11 or 10 or whatever it would have been to have a chance at a quarterback that you were absolutely convinced,

like Mack Jones is going to be a franchise quarterback. You know, I get that part of it. I get that part of it. Like I didn't want them to beat the Giants two years ago, but it wasn't a playoff berth on the line. It was the Chase Young that was on the line. I just think if you every year you play to win, you know, unless you get into a situation like the giant situation two years ago. But if you've got a chance to make the postseason, and by the way, they were playing well, you know, certainly on defense heading into that postseason, you go for it. You go for it.

And the worst case is you're out early, but you get a young team, as he described it, a ton of experience. playing some big games. It's been a while for this organization playing games at the end of the year that actually matter. Those are the games that give you, you know, I think injects the franchise with some energy and some experience eventually. But hey, look at the... And by the way, Tommy, for the organization to have some big games for a fan base is big.

Because how many December's and January's is it over? Most. In most cases, it's just over. It wasn't over last year. I don't think he really means that. And if he does, I'm upset that he's resigned to that now. This is hard? It's going to get harder.

Yeah, deal with it. You're the coach in year two of a rebuild. No rebuild goes completely smoothly. And by the way, you were the one that decided last year, we're going for it. We're going for it. The division stinks. We can go for this.

I think it was the right thing to do. Not everybody agrees. You're entitled to your opinion. I think it was the right thing to do. And what will happen this year potentially is they're going to end up with a super high draft pick. And the quarterbacks aren't that great, more likely than not. There's a lot of season left. Could change.

I don't like that part of the color of where he says this is hard. You've got two general. managers in the front office in essence between Martin Mayu and Marty Herney. Even in a year where there's no obviously good quarterbacks, there's a quarterback to be found there somewhere. Yeah, Aaron

Rogers is his name. That's who you got to go get. He's not coming here. Yeah, I don't, I'm reading this quote from the, I haven't seen the rest of the interview. I'll go

at least read the transcript if there is one. You almost want to say, I wish 7 and 9 last year wouldn't have been good enough to win the division. That way the expectations would have been much lower and been a little easier. This is hard. No, it's not hard. Okay?

This is hard. I mean, come on, Ron. You inherited a condemned property. This wasn't an easy thing. Going 7 and 9, the expectations being raised, here's something Tommy let me make this super super clear if they hadn't gone to the playoffs at seven and nine and the defense had performed through the first five games the way it's performed he'd still be feeling major heat for the defense being garbage because at the very least if you didn't

go to the postseason last year but your defense was massively improved that the talk the defense was still going to be there. Yes. Okay. The, oh, Washington is a contender wouldn't have been there, but the talk of the defense being great was still going to be there. So the expectations for the defense didn't, like, it may have been dialed up a notch or two,

but it was already going to be, you know, big time expectations for an elite defense from a lot of people heading into this year, even if they hadn't made the postseason. Now he might say, well, that's true, but my players wouldn't have felt like they had arrived if they hadn't played in a playoff game. I don't think he really feels that way. I think he's very sensitive in feeling the heat right now after the loss Sunday. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I mean, personally, you know, the questions were totally fair.

I'm sure the junkies asked questions that were totally fair. And he's a little bit sensitive right now. he's a little bit hurt that people aren't you know hey it's two and three hey we're still building this thing hey we're still all behind you uh-uh it's not the way it happens in a big boy market you you know and it's trust me it could be a lot worse if this were 10 years ago and there were more people that cared in this market yes absolutely so um that's funny because i asked him the same question, I don't think it was last week, I think it was two weeks ago. And he said, no, no. That was, that was a, we took advantage of an opportunity and it was a great experience. And, you know, we just have to be realistic about what, you know, we were last year. Okay. It's your job to make sure that you communicate what you were last year and where you really are. And by the way, even if they had been nine and seven and made the playoffs and won a game, they don't have the great quarterback. Until you get the great. quarterback in this league. Every year is a new year. Every year is a new year. I mean, you just

don't have examples typically of teams without the elite quarterback being consistent year-in-year-out winners. I mean, look at the teams that are consistently year-and-year-out winners. They've got the quarterbacks. And the next generation of year-in-year-out winning teams, Buffalo and the Chargers, they have the quarterbacks. You know, it's not like he hasn't been through this before. I know. I've been through this in Carolina. Yeah, but they don't care about football in California.

Yeah, there was probably very little criticism in the first couple years, especially when they had a quarterback that everybody was excited about. They had been to a Super Bowl before. It wasn't like a new franchise. Two and 14. And they drafted the quarterback number one overall. And back then there was, you know, you still felt like there was, you had to give it time with the rookie quarterback. You know, there wasn't, you know, jumped ship after three games and he's not great yet.

All right. We've got a couple of other things we'll finish up on right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Three things I want to finish up the show with real quickly. I'm going to move through this quickly, Tommy, because I know you have to go and I have to get to something as well. First of all, I think I mentioned this on the podcast yesterday. I really liked DeAndre Carter as a player. I think he's a real weapon for them offensively. And I pointed out that somebody on radio called me and said,

well, he was terrible on the punt returns. He made bad decisions on the three punt returns. The punt returns that landed at the one-yard line, one-yard line, and two-yard line. So I went back and looked at him. He made the right decision on the first one. It hit it around the five-yard line. I think that's exactly what Nate Katzer would coach him. If it hits at the five or inside the five, you'll let it go.

The second one hit it around the 10-yard line. That's probably the wrong decision. So he probably messed that one up. And then the last one was really close to like, he's like the six, five-yard line somewhere around there. So it's probably a coin flip. Katzer would probably have the right answer. And there were people ready to field it behind him.

So maybe he should have fielded that one. So that's the DeAndre Carter situation. I do like him a lot as a player, though. I really do. The second thing I wanted to get to was the Alabama, Texas A&M game from Saturday night. Saturday night. Did you watch it, Tommy, or not? No, I didn't.

You're familiar with Alabama losing on Saturday night. Yes, I am. I did not watch the fight. Was it a good fight? Look, we could spend an hour talking about the fight. Really? Because when I say it was, well, because when I say it was a good fight, that's very relevant. It was a good fight between one guy who can't fight at all and the other guy who could fight a little.

So, yeah, thrown in the ring together, it was a very entertaining and compelling fight. But it wasn't quality boxing. Right. You said that. I can't emphasize to everybody. The Ante Wilder can't box. He's terrible. He wouldn't be a good sparring point.

partner for Ali, Fraser, or Foreman in their prime. Right. So it's a complicated thing. But it was entertaining. I paid for it, and it was worth watching. Okay. Will they, um, will it get played somewhere for free this weekend? I have not seen anything about that. I imagine it would.

Okay. So back to A&M Alabama on Saturday night. Great game, great college football Saturday, incredible games all day. Nick Sabin, you know, one of, if not the goat of all time, college football coaches. A great college football coach. There's no doubt about it. We do this thing, you know, occasionally coaching blunders. Well, I'm just going to focus on Sabin here because one of the greatest coaches of all time completely lost track of what was going on at the end of the half and at the end of the game. It was the worst clock management by a great coach I've ever seen.

And it occurred to me that he's never really had to use timeouts at the end of a half for a game or very rarely has to use timeouts at the end of a half for a game. So he wasn't used to it. Jamie Erdahl, who did the interview at the end of the first half, asked him about it. And he gave a completely nonsensical answer. Let me tell you what happened. At the end of the first half, Alabama, down 24 to 10 with a minute 13, punted it from Texas A&M's 45-yard line on 4th and 9.

nine, they didn't go for it, they punted it, and they punted it down to the nine-yard line. They had all three timeouts. They did not use one of them. Texas A&M ran a play up the middle for a yard. Everybody's looking around, the clock's rolling, no timeout. They had to take a snap with 25 seconds left, ran another play three yards, and the clock just ran out. Alabama, with Texas A&M having the ball at their own nine-yard line in a game that they were trailing 24 to 10 at the end of the first half. Their head coach, one of the greatest of all time, went to halftime with all three timeouts in his pocket. Didn't use one of them on defense.

Not one of them. When Jamie Erdahl asked him about it, he thought she was talking about using the timeouts on offense. And he said, well, you'd only use them when there's less than a minute left. And we had to punt. So we couldn't use him. It was as if he didn't know that you could use them on defense. Now, I don't believe that to be true, but he didn't understand the gaff that he had made. Now, if he had said, we were terrible on defense, I was afraid they were going to break off a 91-yard run,

or I was so frustrated and I wanted to get to the locker room because I thought even if we got the ball back, we would screw it up. But at least give indication that you know that you could have gotten the ball back. by the way, in great field position with about 55 seconds to go down 24 to 10 with a chance to at least get a field goal. But they didn't do that. That is a major coaching malpractice clock management situation on timeouts. All three of them, all three of them he took into the locker room. Then at the end of the game, in a 3838 game, great game, great fourth quarter, 38, Texas A&M takes over, with two minutes to go. Bamma's got two

timeouts left. They're driving the ball. With a minute to go, they get it into Alabama territory. First and 10. This is right then and there where defensively you've got to start thinking, uh-oh, we've got to have some time left on the clock if they kick a field goal. They run a play incomplete.

Second and 10, run a play, and now it's a 12-yard gain to the Alabama. 30. When the play ends, there are 50 seconds. left and Alabama doesn't use a timeout. Make a long story short, Texas A&M kicks a game-winning field goal at the gun from 28 yards out after they got down to the Alabama 11 to win the game 4138 and Alabama had two timeouts that they never used. You got to use timeouts there, Nick.

You got to use your timeouts in hopes that if they make a field goal, you got a little bit of time to try to go down there and tie it up. well, what happens if they miss the field goal? Well, then you can make your choice to go to overtime or take a shot at trying to win the game. Really remarkable, Tommy, that Nick Saban had no idea what to do, and nobody seemed willing to help him. They lost the game by three points in which he... Like he said, not a situation they ever have to deal with normally.

Normally not. They lost a game by three points, lost their number one ranking, lost their inside track to a lock playoff berth, when they didn't have a chance, when they didn't give themselves a chance to get three or seven at the end of the half, they could have gotten seven. It's Alabama. I mean, 50 seconds to go, you take over midfield after the pun. It's Alabama for crying out loud. I mean, it's not going to go 2410 at half. It's probably going to go 2413. Who knows it might be 2417. And at the end, you let him kick a walk-off field goal. Wow. I have no idea if they're killing him for it in Alabama or not, but man, he deserves criticism. I don't even know that he would understand it. Nobody criticizes him down there. That is one cheerleading. When you got a college town and a college coach and a program like that, you're either on board waving the pom-poms if you're in the sports media or you're not. in the sports media. Yeah, life in a big, in a college town like Tuscaloosa is probably a lot different than it is in the big city. And if you're not with them, you're against them. Yeah. And that's not where you want to be. No. I want to finish up the show with this. Do you know who Mad Amadio is? No. Madamodio has consumed much of America for the last couple of months.

with his Jeopardy Win streak, and it came to an end last night. I have been in on Mad Amodio's 38 wins in a row. I haven't missed one of them. It's actually become must-watch for my boys and I in particular, whether they're at home or in other places. There was a stretch there when we were in the midst of the move where we missed like four or five shows, but we had them DVR. And so we watched them all in a row.

Madameodio's Jeopardy streak, which was second all-time to Ken Jennings, came to an end last night. He was, he earned $1.5 million over that 38 days. 38 days, by the way, wasn't 38 straight days because Jeopardy takes a break at the end of the summer. So there was like a two or three-week gap of no, of just old shows at the end of August in the beginning of September. And then they picked back up in maybe it was the week after Labor Day. was, it was, I mean, I'm a big Jeopardy fan. I love the show. I watch it a lot. But this guy was so good. He never had a competitive game in the first 38. Like it was, it was one blowout after another. I mean, he was Alabama, you know, for 38 straight games. Like the games were over at the end of

single Jeopardy. It was like he'd have like $11,000. And everybody else would be at like, you know, 500. He would get every single answer. He buzzered in. He knew everything. There was one category my boys and I picked up on this. And for those of you, I know many of you had been watching it. Because when I talked about this on radio this morning, I must have gotten 75 responses on Twitter from people who were watching it as well.

We figured out that one of the only flaws that he had in terms of category type was sports. he was clearly not a big time sports fan. It wasn't that he never got a sports answer, but he got a lot of the sports answers wrong. And he didn't get anything wrong in any other category ever. He's the second longest winning streak behind Ken Jennings, 74. I mean, my God, 74. His million and a half is third behind Jennings and James Holshouser.

So, but he was also, it was weird, Tommy. you know, when you answer a Jeopardy question, you answer it in the form of a question, right? A Jeopardy answer gets, it's answered in the form of a question, you know, who is Franklin Delano Roosevelt? You know, who is, whatever. What is? Every single answer he gave was what's, and then he'd give the answer. And if it was a full name, he'd only give the last name. It was odd, and people criticized him for it.

Like he, it was always what's John Fitzger, you know, what's Kennedy? But he, there was something very likable about him. He was very humble, but obviously very smart. He was a grad student, you know, they kept saying, you know, New Haven, Connecticut, so I'm assuming at Yale. And he was, I don't know, very likable. I liked him a lot. more than Holshouser, who was this gambler, sports gambler, who you would think I would like,

but I thought he was a little bit full of shit at times. But I really liked Matt Amodeo, and the street came to an end, and it was a stunning end. He was trailing going, both of the other players who were both really good. He was trailing both of them going into Final Jeopardy. Now, somebody pointed out, like, there was a lot of conspiracy stuff going on last night, like they wanted him out, or he decided that he wanted it to end. Like he had, you know, he had enough and he was over it.

And he, I don't think that was true. I think what happened was he didn't get the double, the, the, the, the, the, the, uh, the, uh, doubles. Um, and usually he would land because he was answering every question correctly. So he was always picking the next, you know, category and, you know, for, you know, whatever value it was. And so he was getting the daily doubles. Well, the other players were good players and they were hanging in there.

and he didn't get any of the daily doubles. And if he had gotten one of them, he would have gone all in, you know, and probably taken the lead. But he didn't get any of them. So that's why I think he lost last night. But I'm sitting there going, Tommy, like as double jeopardy started,

I screamed down to Kara. He's losing, and she's like, stop it. Stop it. He's not losing. No, he's losing. There's a chance he's going to get beat. And then I made them. big mistake last night. I didn't think that maybe this had already aired in other markets.

And I looked at my phone and Jeopardy and Madamodio was trending big time. And he was trending because he had lost. And so before the final Jeopardy question, I knew he had lost. I guess it airs at 7 o'clock or maybe 630 Eastern in other cities. It airs at 7.30 here. And that sort of sucked. I didn't even think about it that it would have aired somewhere. The results had already been in. But he actually got the final Jeopardy question wrong. And the other two got it right. And so he was already trailing anyway. So even if he had gotten it right, he wouldn't have won. But it came, you know, the third. the second longest winning streak came to an end and the third biggest winner in the history

of the show came to an end and I don't know like at the end of it I'm like oh that sucks because I'm telling you for the last couple of months when it's special other than the summer break 730 came around or I would set the DVR to record it at 730 every night so if I

did miss it then I would be able to catch up on it And I just, it's too bad that he lost. Like, he'll come back for the tournament of champions at the end of the year, but he was just a pleasant guy, I thought, anyway. Have you ever considered trying out for a show like that? I have done the online Jeopardy thing. You know, this would probably, I think, go for you too.

If we got the categories that we were really strong in, we'd probably do pretty well. But unfortunately for me, I got a lot of blank spots. And like, even when I'm watching the show, there are nights where my wife's like, Jesus, wow. And I'm like, yeah, well, it's because I got every cat. I got history. I got geography.

I got the United States. I got sports and I got weather. So, you know, I killed it. But then when it comes to, you know, English lit and, you know, and not European history, I typically will do okay on that. Asian history or art categories, no. I'll go blank for a whole round. But I did a couple of years ago try the online.

You know, you actually qualify by going through an online thing first. And I did the online Jeopardy questions. And I don't know. It was like 20 questions or 25. And I didn't qualify. I think, you know, I ended up getting probably like, you know, I don't know, a third of them right. maybe. I do love the show and I love with this guy. It was funny. I found myself not even trying

to get the answers, which is usually the reason that you watch and much more paying attention to him in the competition and his greatness. Like it was just like amazing that he, he just rarely got anything wrong. And then last night to see him trailing and falling behind, um, It was kind of weird and also kind of sad to see it come to an end. By the way, I love the new Jeopardy host. God, I always struggle with her freaking name because I never watched any of the shows. She was Blossom, Miakum, Biolic or something like that, whatever her name is. She's excellent.

So I'm struggling with her name. I haven't watched Jeopardy because Art Fleming used to host. Oh my God. Well, that's like the 70s. I mean, hell, I remember my grandmother loved Jeopardy when he was. Myambiolic is her name. She is the one that when they were, you know, trying people out over the summer,

including Aaron Rogers and LeVar Burton and others, Anderson Cooper. I'm like, she should be the one. And then they went with the guy that was the senior executive producer who was terrible. and then he had, you know, he had said something from years ago that was offensive, so they pulled him. And I think she's permanent now. She's really, really good. She was in shows that I never watched. She was a child actress in the show Blossom.

And then she was a big part of that very successful show, The Big Bang Theory, which I never watched. So anyway. Okay. There's some jeopardy. He was... A lot of people watch it. A lot of people love the show. By the way, those that had these conspiracy theories about like they wanted him off or he wanted off, okay, maybe he wanted off. I don't think that's why I lost. But why would they want him off? The ratings had to be through the roof over the last few weeks with him. And he wasn't, he was so, he was just crushing people, crushing people. He wasn't getting lucky. He was annihilating people. The other night he won, I think it was $83,000.

because he had no reason not to bet like $40,000 on Final Jeopardy because he couldn't lose. He had such a big lead. But anyway, okay, there we go. That's the show for today. I'm back tomorrow. Tommy, you'll be with me on Thursday. Okay, boss.