The Kevin Sheehan Show - Ovechkin, Tush-Push Trouble, & Kevin Willard

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Kevin opened with Alex Ovechkin's hat trick against Edmonton that moved him within 13 goals of Wayne Gretsky's all-time mark. Plenty of football on the show including the possibility that the Tush-Push will be eliminated or altered by rule in 2025. ESPN's John Keim was a guest to talk everything Commanders as the Indy Combine gets underway. Maryland Basketball coach Kevin Willard jumped on in advance of the Terps' biggest game of the season Wednesday night against Michigan State. ESPN's Senior NHL Writer Greg Wyshynski joined Kevin to talk about Ovechkin and the Caps to finish up the show.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. A hat trick for the great eight. What an afternoon for him at home against Edmonton. He's now 13 goals away from breaking Gretzky's record. Based on his current goals per game average, he'll break the record April 4th at home

against Chicago. Now that's if he continues on this blistering pace, but the odds have certainly increased that he will break Gretzky's mark this season. By the way, the caps won seven to three over Gretzky's team, Edmonton. I know he played in Los Angeles as well. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation. Call them if you need new windows. 86690 Nation, or windonation.com. Mention my name. They'll come out and give you a free estimate. The caps outscored their two weekend opponents, 15 to 6.

They beat the doors off Pittsburgh Saturday, 8 to 3. And then yesterday, the 7 to 3 win over the Oilers. Currently, they've got the best record in hockey, and they are pulling away in the Eastern Conference. Their total points in the Eastern Conference are 12 points better than the next best team. That team is Toronto. ESPN's senior golf writer, Greg Wyshinsky, will join me on this show in the final segment. We'll talk Ovechkin, we'll talk the Caps, we'll talk Four Nations tournament and the success it had as well.

Before Greg joins the show, John Kime, in this opening, segment. And Kevin Willard in the next segment, Maryland's basketball team is now 16th in the country in the latest AP poll, and they play eighth-ranked Michigan State in a big one Wednesday night in College Park. How about this from Mark Maskey at the Washington Post to start the show? He wrote this afternoon from the Indy Combine, quote, NFL team owners could consider a proposal next month that would ban or limit the push the quarterback sneak that has become the signature play of the Philadelphia Eagles. Of course, we know that as the tush push or the brotherly shove. Troy Vincent, the VP of Football Operations, said that conversation about this play has, quote,

picked back up, it's on our agenda, closed quote. Vincent did not identify the team that has made a proposal to change the play. Individual teams are allowed to submit rules change proposals during the offseason. By the way, the league can do that as well. The league's next owner's meetings where a lot of this will be discussed and potentially even voted on come late March in Palm Beach, Florida. League health and safety officials have expressed concern about the play, given that it involves players on both teams pushing against the quarterback amid a pile of players at the line of scrimmage.

Some teams and some opponents of Philadelphia, as an example, have complained that it's not a true football play and is more akin to something of a rugby scrum. Mark Murphy, the Green Bay Packers team president, recently wrote on the team's website, quote, the play is bad for the game and we should go back to prohibiting the push of the runner, closed quote. The educated guess at this point is that the Packers are obviously the team proposing the change, but that they will have a lot of support for it. I think it's an easy fix. I've talked about this going back two, three years now,

whenever it started two years ago. The rule is simple. No player can push or pull a ball carrier from behind or at the line of scrimmage. Once the player is beyond the line of scrimmage, push all you want. But behind the line of scrimmage or at the line of scrimmage, if you push the ball carrier, the player with the ball, It's a penalty. I think something's going to happen with this.

I think the Frankie Louvre thing in the NFC championship game was not a good look for the league. Nothing against Louvo, nothing against Washington. I think it's, you know, one of the ways defenses can try to stop the play by timing it and jumping over the line of scrimmage to try to nail the quarterback before he gets, you know, any forward momentum. But that sequence and just the introduction for many that the Eagles, were within one more off-sides penalty away from being awarded a touchdown by rule was a bit too much. I think they're going to do something with it in this off-season.

Maskey, by the way, also reported that the kickoff rule from last year, which by the way was a one-year rule. It has to be voted on and approved again this spring. But Maskey reported that the league may tweak that rule, that there's a lot of push for there to be a stiffer penalty for touchbacks, meaning instead of the 30-yard line, the ball comes out to the 35-yard line on touchbacks. I think that would be a terrible decision. I mean, you are then giving teams a starting chance of essentially two first downs and being in field goal range. for a lot of kickers in this league. I'm not talking about 20 yards.

First downs typically end up being more than 10 yards to move the chains. I think you've got to earn more of the field before you're in field goal range. I would hate that. The 30-yard line, I think, is still too much. But they got some improved results on kickoff returns. And yet still teams, a lot of them kicked it and said, were fine with the 30-yard line. But the 35-yard line would, I think, be too punitive for a touchback.

They could move the kicker-back five yards. They could do that in hopes that more teams wouldn't be able to reach the end zone. They want more returns. They liked the increase in returns. They want more of them. Speaking of the NFL, Matt Stafford and his agent were given permission by the Rams this weekend to seek a trade or gauge his market value. That's still amazing to me.

I know that there was some angst in the negotiations for the restructuring of his deal last summer, and apparently there was some bad vibes between player agent and team, something that we didn't really know about at the time, but I still can't believe that Sean McVeigh is going to want to part with Matt Stafford. But Matt Stafford and the quarterback carousel in general, along with Miles Garrett, you know, will he or won't he be traded? I think this is what trumps the actual Indy Combine results. Last year, all the conversation was about the players that were there or not there,

but the quarterbacks in general that were going to be drafted in 2024. Much of the conversation, I think, this week will be about veteran players. you know, the veteran quarterbacks and how that shakes out, Miles Garrett, Debo Samuel, Cooper Cup. I think a busy week coming up, as I said on Friday, and I think we'll get some news related to our team. My prediction on Friday, it was a total hunch, not based on anything that I know, but I said, don't be surprised if we get something like, you know, at the very least, Zakias getting re-signed. And saying that prompted this Twitter. from Ed. Ed wrote Kevin,

Zichias signing a deal? That's your hunch for Combine Week? First of all, it's not very exciting. Secondly, aren't they looking for someone better than Zichias? Thank you for that, Ed. The excitement level wasn't really the goal there. Maybe it should have been. You could be right about that. But I do think there's a chance of something bigger this week. You know, Miles Garrett, a receiver, Samuel Cup, I don't know. I just went with something that for me was kind of an easy connect the dots situation.

They loved Zichias last year. He was somebody that they counted on that was perfect for their culture. And right now, under contract for 2025, Terry McClorn and Luke McCaffrey at wide receiver. That's it. I could see Terry getting extended, by the way, before the season begins. but you've got two receivers currently under contract. That's it, McCaffrey and Terry. The Browns, Diami and Noah, they are free agents.

Zakias and Crowder, free agents. Remember they signed KJ Osborne late in the season? He is an unrestricted free agent. So, you know, they've got some work to do in that area. I think Diami Brown might have a market in free agency. I don't know how big it is, but I think there will be some interest in Diami Brown. So there's a chance he goes out to see what the market will produce for him.

Zakias isn't the number two that they're looking for, Ed, but they can sign him to a two-year, four and a half, five million dollar deal, something like that, and bring back a player that was very good for the room that he was in and the organization. They really like Zakeas. The number two will come hopefully, perhaps in March, maybe in the draft. You know, before we get to John real quickly, with indie opening up, I thought there was something to mention in terms of, you know, Adam Peters and his front office and the players they will be looking to draft. I think we learned something last year. I think we learned a lot.

Number one is they're looking for culture setters, you know, they're looking for leaders, they're looking for guys. that, you know, have the ability to learn and love football. They had 17 captains of their nine picks last year. Seven team captains. That is telling. And the culture, you know, the secret sauce, the aligned vision on the kind of player traits. You know, part of it was this fit with what they wanted in their locker room. They wanted, you know, relentless high motor competitors.

but guys that were going to fit into a team concept, and they drafted 17 captains in their nine selections. That's one thing to keep in mind if you're going to get into the Indy Combine and watch it this week. Number two is, remember the RAS scores Washington had, the relative athletic scores? What is relative athletic score? What is RAS?

It's this thing that was created by a guy from Pro Football Network, Kent Lee Platt. It collects, you know, a bunch of players testing metrics at the Indy Combine, physical attributes that are measured at the Combine to generate a score to measure a prospect's athleticism entering the NFL. Washington, remember last year, finished first in the league with average rascarer. score, relative athletic score. They drafted athletes last year. And by the way, their top two picks,

Jaden Daniels and Johnny Newton, didn't even work out in Indy. Jaden passed and Johnny Newton was hurt, remember, for the combine last year. But everybody else, Sanra Still Senate, Coleman McCaffrey, Jordan McGee, Dominique, Dominicampton, and John Baptiste, all averaged out to number one in the league

with an average relative athletic score of 9.14. Philly was second in their draft. So two things to keep in mind, they're looking for guys that love football that are leaders, and they're looking for athletes. And remember when we get to the draft, Adam Peters proved with the Johnny Newton selection that he is a best player available picker. All right now is my good friend John Kime from ESPN with the Indian. Combines starting this week. I thought we should talk about what I think is going to be potentially

a newsy week. I don't know if you agree with me, but you got a lot of stuff out there that isn't necessarily Washington related with the quarterbacks and the quarterback carousel, which will start with something, I think, you know, emanating from Los Angeles with Matt Stafford. But Miles Garrett, that storylines out there. So let's just start with how are you viewing this Indy Combine week versus years past? It's through a much different light because all this court, you know, the veteran court racks available, and we don't have to cover it.

I don't have to chase down, like, are you going to trade for Matthew Stafford? Well, the answers, no. So, like, the quarterback stuff to put aside, so to me it already starts very quiet. And then even with Miles Garrett, I don't expect anything to really take hold this week because the Browns are kind of dug in for now

about what they want to do. And I don't think they can even sit there and say, it would take this to trade for him, because then it kind of lets out, oh, you're willing to then do it. You have a price. Because right now they're not even setting that price tag. So it's kind of a nebulous, you know,

you don't know what it would take. So maybe you get, maybe you hear something, along those lines, but I don't, I don't, I'm not betting on that. And so I think it's, it's a lot different. It'll be more interesting with like Stafford or Rogers, but this is where all that stuff gets done. This is where, this is where the seed that Carson Wentz deal to come here was done. And, you know, so like things like that, that's where, this is where all that stuff starts to happen, more so. Also, Kevin, as you know, more so from, for free agents. But even there, like, so I think what, you know, what will Cincinnati do with T. Higgins?

You know, things like that will be big because there's a trickle-down, but I don't even know that, like, you look at this region class, like how, you know, not exactly the most exciting one. So there will be news from that, but I think it's just to a different level. By the way, going back, you know, nearly three years ago to the trade for Carson once, We know that, you know, we know that I think most people know. They really wanted Jimmy Garoppolo and then he opted for surgery. I don't know if it was to avoid getting traded to Washington or not,

but they quickly moved on to Wentz. And, you know, Ron Rivera ended up getting incredibly defensive about that trade during the next regular season, that build up to the Chicago game and the Wickersham. I think you were involved in the piece and Van Nata and the whole thing. and like ultimately was just run under extreme pressure to get something done with a quarterback? I mean, how far down the list was whence before they had to go in that direction? So I know that prior to, geez, about a month earlier, I know that he was on the list. and I know the question for him was, you know, you can still play,

but if he a guy you can build around, or is it just a one-year guy? So you knew that, so definitely he was on the list, but there were other quarterbacks that they definitely inquired about. Russell Wilson? Russell Wilson, I believe, any quarterback that they thought might be available in some fashion. Right. They were going to call it. Kirk Cousins.

Yeah. You know, I think, I think they even called Arizona to see it's Carla Murray, right? Now, he wasn't, but like there was question about him at that time because the contract. So anybody liked that, so he was part of that. The other part of it, too, was because here's a couple things we know. You don't miss. When Dan Senter was the owner, you don't miss too often. And they, you know, the feeling was where they missed on Russell Wilson, you can't keep missing and keep your jobs with that guy.

And so my understanding from a few people over there was that Snyder had put on, like, you've got to get this done. So even in the Seth piece, like where they talk about Snyder's influence on the trade, it was as much from my understanding is that you have to get this done and you have to get it done today. So the Colts knew that they were under the gun, and that's why they end up giving up more than what anybody would have expected. So, like, there was a combination of things. It's not like they were told, it's not like they were told you have to get this guy. It's like if you want this, you know, you've got to get done today.

And so, yeah, that was, you know, what a great regime. You know, not that the fortunate thing is that we don't have to spend all of our time talking about these things anymore. But what, but that was so, you know, illustrative of why Washington always got the worst of deals. It's because they just presented themselves as desperate all the time because that's what Snyder's M.O. was. I mean, they were completely taken advantage of by the Indianapolis Colts who had nobody else to trade him to and probably would have released him. They would have caught him. And people here know that. It's just that this is what they're, you know, listen, man, it goes back to even when Gibbs was here the second time.

Yeah, I know. You know, T. The Ducke. The Ducke. It was bad. Oh, my goodness. Jason Taylor when they were desperate. When Philip Daniels got injured, yeah. Correct, correct.

And so there were, you know, but that was a combination of Gibbs like, hey, I got a win now. And I was like, go do it, go do it. So, yeah. But, yes, in the cold situation, definitely got snookered. Big time. The worst part of that deal, it wasn't even the picks. It was the fact that they picked up the whole $28 million. I think it was $28 million.

I know. I know. I mean, all they had to do probably was just not even ask, just say, well, fine, but you have to eat 14 of the 28. And they would have done it without even hesitation. I bet it wasn't even asked for. Just an incredible group to deal with when you think about all the deals over the years. But that one was a beauty. So we're not involved in the quarterback thing at all, fortunately this year.

But I'm just curious because I've talked about this a lot. What do you make of the Matt Stafford? situation in L.A. I don't get it. I don't either because it seems like they're pretty good together. Yeah. So, you know, and you have a team that like they were a conversion, you know, 20 yards or so away from beating Philadelphia in the snow. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And so you can, and they're a younger team. It's a really good situation

for a quarterback. It's just, to me, it is kind of bizarre, and like it can't just be because, oh, they cut Cooper Cup now, what am I going to do? You know, and I mean, certainly his wife has been very vocal about it, and maybe this is where that all stems from, not blaming her, but just the vocal aspect of it

is led to questions for sure. And what I know, shoot, they've letting them look for a trade if you want to, but it still seems like, to me, the best place for both of both parties is to, together. And, you know, like, if you're the Giants, do you give up the top five pick for him right now? I would give up a swap. I'd swap first round picks for Matt Stapler. I would do that. Yeah, and like if you're Cleveland, because like that's another team that would be,

that should be interested in a guy like that. But then again, if your staff are like, wait a minute, my choice is this team would stay in L.A. or going to two bad teams, one of two bad teams. Like, you know, what are you doing? Because you're not going to go. It just, it doesn't make sense to me. The more you think, the more I think about it, the less it makes sense. And it didn't make sense before. Because again, you know, you hear, I mean, this is the guy that they courted and wanted and moved out from golf for. And it seemed like it was going pretty well. He had a really good finish to the year. It just, you know, it just, it doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean, the thing that's something else. Yeah, the thing. The

that's come out here recently. I had Diana Rusini on the radio show Friday. She was the second person, and I forget who the first one, told me that the conversations about his restructured deal last summer were very contentious. And... Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. And that, you know... I forgot about that part. Yeah. He only got like the $5 million bump, and that was, yeah. Yeah. But to me, the Rams have a chance to be a really good football team if he stays as their quarterback. All right. Well, and your job, to finish up on that, again, like, we have seen a franchise wander through the wilderness after moving on from a quarterback. It ain't easy to find that guy. And so unless you have an absolute plan to move on and who you're going to move on to, it doesn't make sense.

And we all know McVeigh is very high on Kirk Cousins. And so maybe he just figures can go get this guy cheaper and then add more parts around him to strengthen the rock. roster. I don't know. Like, if that could be part of it, because like, if you trade for Kurt or if you wait to do something with him, you can get him for cheap. And suddenly now you can build out your roster better. So maybe that's part of it. But Stafford was really good at the end of the year, man. I'd want to roll the dice with him again. Yeah, me too. I mean, I don't think Jimmy Garoppolo is the answer there. He was good. No, he was good. Stafford was very good. Yeah. And, you know, in thinking about, and I kind of talked about this in the open of the

show. But, you know, and I threw out, the Giants are one of those teams that's been talked about. You know, the Giants don't have a terrible roster. Just saying, I have kind of set, I've beat that drum and people have laughed at it the last couple of years, and they've been a bad team. They've had bad quarterback play, and they had bad surrounding offensive talent for a couple of years as well. But you've got an elite level talent at wide receiver in Malik neighbors. They have talent all over the defensive side of the ball. And that team, they need to win. I mean, Shane and Daible need to win. Stafford in New York would make the Giants actually an interesting team. Oh, sure.

Heading into next year, I think. And I actually think it would be Rogers that would be the answer more than cousins if they move on from him. All right, let's talk about our team. Okay. If I told you that they make a trade here in this offseason, tell me what you. trade they make? I would think Miles. I'm not ready to go to the Debo route yet if that's where you're going. No, I'm not. I wanted to hear you say Miles Garrett. So tell me what you think the chances are that they're involved in a Miles Garrett trade assuming he is actually available. Well, you love these percentages questions. I don't even need a percentage. I want a gut feel for

whether or not you think Adam Peters is going to take some big swings. He would be the biggest. I think if you take a big swing, that's the guy. And so I think if he gets traded, would I be shocked if it's here? Heck no. Because it makes sense for them. And it's also, he's coming from a place where they did take some big swings, especially with Christian McCaffrey.

And I know, like, the couple things I know is, obviously, we know he wants to build through the draft. And so people hear that, I'm like, oh, you can't give up draft capital. Well, they just did from Marshall-Ladamor. This guy's way more impactful. Right. But the other, the way that I keep, now, here's a problem, Kevin. We don't know the price.

So let's say it's, and if I'm Cleveland, I don't know that I do this, but like two first-round picks, plus maybe another pick and then a swap of something and blah, blah, right? But the big thing would be two-vers-on picks. Well, let's say it's before this draft. Well, you're talking about the 29 pick, and if you get Miles Gereck and if you get Miles Gerell where do you expect to pick the next year? It's not in the top 10. It's not in the top 15 or 20.

So you're talking about two low first round picks, and so then you look at who are the players who have been picked in this range over the last five, six years, and would you give up two of them for this guy? Well, hell yes. Very few. There was one draft. I think it was 2021 where it was like IUC and a few other guys

who in that range were really good, right? And they, you know, toward Bob, you know, a couple other guys in that range that, but by and large, it's usually not those kids. kind of guys in that spot. So, you know, that's why if I'm Cleveland, I have a hard time with that. But if I'm Washington, like, heck, yeah. You know, because you're also getting a guy who's still in his prime, has a few more

is left in there. And as we've seen with pass rushers, if you take care of yourself, you can be highly effective into your mid-30. So his, you need to give him a contract extension. So it's not just for two years. So now you have an impact defensive player, arguably, you know, certainly. one of the top three or four defensive players in the NFL, under contract, along with Jaydon Daniels' rookie deal, and you can still build on that side of the ball.

So, you know, it's just, that one, if there's a trade, to me, that's the one that would make sense because I don't see, and there may be some other ones that I haven't even looked at or thought about, and I could see, but that's the one that, like, if you want to add that guy, because it's not just a, you know, it's not just for a, oh, go for broke this year. It's a, you've got a several-year window with Jayden's contract where you can take on other deals like this, and that's the one that makes sense. I should have asked you this before asking you that, and that is, do you think that they will treat this offseason as, you know, window number one, window being labeled Jaden on a rookie deal to swing big to try to,

win the Super Bowl the next year or two? I don't think they're going to have this massive signing, right? I think Garrett and I put into a different category because it's rare when guys like that are available. And then so you obviously, you, obviously you would have to, any team is going to call, especially this one. You know what I mean? It just, it would make sense.

It would make, you'd be, you should be, it'd be organizational failure to not, inquire, right? So clearly they would. But I put that in a different category than just like going out and signing some big name guys, like whether you go out and get a T. Higgins, I don't think I see that. Very few teams would invest. I think there's two teams that invest that kind of money a receiver. One is the Eagles, who won, but they won, in part because they invested a ton on their defense. They invested with draft pitch, whatever, on defense and office. sense of line.

Excuse me, the other team is Miami. So, you know, so I don't see that one. What I would see more, Kevin, is continuing to build with an approach like last year, finding the Frankie Leavu and Tyler Beiotic types in this free agent class, and do they exist. So, you know, that's what I see more of. Now, they could, you know, and then maybe you extend Terry McCorn, and maybe you can, by doing that, you can lower his cap hit this year. So if you wanted to do some other couple things like with a Miles Gair or whatever to trade or whatever.

So I don't, you know, but I don't know that I see that monster signing that just says, oh my gosh, because like what free agent outside of T. Higgins would that would qualify as that? Yeah. I mean, I tend to agree with you that the big GoFort moves would come probably via trade. Correct. Yeah. So you both are so, so to me, like, if I'm Peter, like, you can't find

that guy, but I want to get a guy in his prime, right? And, you know, I think they have enough 30-plus-year-old guys on that roster and guys inching into that category, that I want the guys that are 25, 26, you can kind of,

just like last year was a great mix. Like, you've got guys who are ready to ascend, Frankie Mououboub, Biotish, mature veterans like Terry McCorn, mature rookies like Daniels and San Francisco, among others, and then you had the upper veterans, right? So it was a good mix.

But I wouldn't want to start loading up on guys just for that last hurrah. So you need to find those guys in that mid-category, just like, again, 26, 27, maybe just ready to, you know, are just ascending, and maybe they cost a bit more, but they are ascending, and you're going to have under contract for three or four years. So that's, and then, then, you can, because again, then if let's say you don't trade for Miles Garrett,

well, now you get another draft class to build on two. And I think the way they want to build this, you know, to keep it sustainable for not just a couple years, but for five, six, it may take two more drafts and two more classes, right? Doesn't mean they can't contend for something this year, but just to continue to do that. The other thing, the last thing, Kevin, on the Miles Garrett part is, if you're Cleveland, you don't have to trade them before this draft.

So you may be able to keep your picks this. year, and then let's say it's a deadline trade move, or before it before camp, when, you know, if they haven't convinced Miles Garrett after signing Daniel Jones or whatever, that's not the answer.

So maybe at that time, you do it then, but it's certainly at the deadline by the latest because, let's say he keeps them, he comes in and plays a three and five or three and six, like, all right, we're going to trade you because whatever. And then, then now this team still had this

full class. So now you're giving a couple future ones. Like, I think that would be okay too. But the other thing to keep in mind for people, if we're going to clear, like, that group has to win. Like, the GM and the coach have to win this year. I don't think they're going to give them, I don't think this is going to be

something that's going to go fast. Give me the free agents Washington currently has that you think will be back next year. I think, I think Ertz and Wagner, still obviously you've got to work out that price, and they're both, you know, I think Earth will get a definite bump because of where his contract was last year compared to tight ends in the league.

I think those two, I think Zakias, I think he's a guy because they really like him. And let me, I got, now I forgot my list. Okay, trust way. I think Jeremy Chin would be one as well because of the way because of the combination of his size and then what you know the versatility that he had in that defense

you know I could see Crowder Noah Brown I think would be an easy one because I don't think anybody else is going to go I think you're going to have much competition for him because the injury history Big Benogany they liked him I think you need to keep that corner depth

and I think they still need to address that position, whether in the draft or free agency. So Marriotto will be an interesting one. They obviously would want him back, and just based on the last conversation we had with him in the locker room, the big thing, like if he can go somewhere to start, I think he would have a chance to start.

He would do that. There's a natural spot in Vegas with Chip Kelly, the officer coordinator out with the Raiders, plus it would also put him closer to his family out west. And so I think, and he just had another baby in December, I think that would be, that would weigh on him for sure. But I think short of that, he would be back. If not, then Jeff Driscoll, who, by all accounts, like, really liked it here. And that quarterback room is really good. So if you, you know, not just for Jane Daniels' sake, but I do think it matters,

that you would still have a guy in there that you would keep that, that room pretty, you know, close to what it was from coaches and players standpoint. What about guys that, so you didn't mention Diami Brown. Do you think there's a decent-sized market for Diami Brown? I think there may be more of a market. See, here's the other thing to watch there, too. And again, the key if I would try, because he can do both of them, like the one thing with Diomi, too, he did finish strong, but, you know,

I don't know how strong that market will be for him, because there's also going to be a lot of guys in Frangy that are veteran receiver types that will probably depress the market for guys like Diami. And so he may have to go and just sign a one-year deal somewhere. And that's just kind of a guess, but like that wouldn't surprise you. So could I see him back, sure. But it would be hard to see it on a multi-year thing just because I don't know if you're Diami, me like you want to, you know, unless somebody gives you really good, you may not get what you want,

because there are going to be guys that will be cut or, you know, maybe traded. But like, you know, Cooper Cups out there, I think the other guy to watch would be like I like Christian Kirk, you know, for Jacksonville has a pretty hefty cap number and coming off an injury year and has a relationship with Cliff Kingsbury. Like that matters, and he can still play. So, you know, I don't know about doing it, but I do like, like, the one thing that he, the hard part if you just go with a Ganoa Brown, you have to get some other guys in here

because he has too much of an injury history. It's there, right? It's just, it's proven. That was a serious injury, wasn't it? It was. It was. And at the end of the year, I talked to him, he seemed okay,

and he was further, you know, he was doing stuff, but it was a serious. It was with his kidney. Kidney. So, yeah. And so that, that was bad.

But I could, you know, but I think the hard part, like, I like what Diami did for them. them. It just, you're still, you kind of roll on the dice, like, was this a preview of something? And then how do you see him moving forward if you add other guys to that spot? Do you see him as a fourth of that guy like he was before others, you know, got hurt? And so, and the way, the way they use their group, I don't know that it would change that he emerged so much. They're like,

oh, he's a clear number two. Do you think that? I'm not sure. I'm not there. You know, a good playoff. But they rotate like one week. We get the keyest one. A couple weeks, it's Noah Brown. It's Yami Brown. You know, I think that's, but what he did give them, whatever receiver you get, you want to have both he and Noah Brown block, and, you know, they play physical. And so, and that's one thing they always liked with Diami from the jump.

So, you know, but, but yeah, I don't, I don't know on him at this point. Like, John Bates, I think, is another guy. It's hard to find. Yeah. Right. Yeah. have a lot of true wide tight ends in the league. So I think that's a guy,

he's clearly not going to cost a lot. You know, so. I think it's going to be interesting. I was going to ask you about Bates, because Zakeas, it's funny because on Friday's show I said, he, just a hunch, but he's a guy I could see them

resigning pretty quickly, like we could get and announce, because they just loved him so much. He's their kind of guy. Oh, yeah. Because he also, like, the thing that you have to like that they like about, too, no matter what's going on, he's a good teammate. Not that you just sign a guy because of that,

but you also want a guy who, such at that position, if he's not getting his, how is you reacting? And, like, they would bring up the example in the Bengals game, how he was not a big part of that game plan at all. Yet he was one of the first guys off the bench to congratulate guys. And, you know what you mean? Like, that stuff matters. Then you watch him, then you watch him on film and watch,

and watch the effort he gives on place that doesn't go to him or is not involved to him at all, and it's really, really strong. So you don't get rid of guys like that. If he's always going to be, you know, more of a back-end guy, plus he produced, he's not like he did well for them, but, you know, I could, I definitely, he's their kind of guy. You know, you mentioned Tress Away. They don't have a kicker right now under contract for next year. So both Cybert and Gonzalez are.

our free agents. But you know who else is a free agent? Brandon McManus is a free agent, and he had a really good season in Green Bay. Yeah, he did. I don't know. That one, I don't know, I don't know, how they weren't too happy about when they found out about those allegations. So I don't know how if that would be how that would color things in a situation like that. I don't know that his side, I don't know how they would view it. But I don't, yeah, he was, I mean, he would have been good for them. Cyber did well for them. Yeah. You know, so, I mean, there's like, I could see one of those guys coming back.

Right. All right. Give me a player under contract that you don't see back next year. Well, there's a couple candidates. it's for that. I mean, you'd have to look at, like, whether it's Wiley or John Allen, right? Right, yeah, of course. And I think, I think if there's anybody else that would fall in that category, that really makes sense. And I haven't, I have to go back and check and see.

Okay, so tell everybody why John Allen and or Andrew Wiley could get released. So they could get released. And I, you know, I know with, with, with, with, Alan, it's it seems like, I mean, there are a couple ways you could go with him, too, too. Like, you could also, you could be a pay cut. It could be an extension. I don't know that you want to do that. It just depends on how you, you know, I don't know what the market's going to be for him after him missing half a year with the injury.

And, you know, I mean, if he playing at the same level that he was before, like Seattle called about a year and a half ago at the trade deadline. So, but if they release him, it's just because you could save $17 million on the cap. Right. That's it. And then, you know, now the thing is you still have to replace him. So then what's your solution? Because Johnny Newton, I think can be a good player, but he's not, he doesn't do things like John. He's not John Allen in terms of style of player. He's going to be more of a, he can be an upfield guy who gets after the passer as he progresses, right? but he hasn't been, you know, right now it hasn't been really about run stopping. And I say that, knowing that they did not stop the run with anybody in there at defensive tackle. So, you know, but I do think you'd want to get somebody, so that's regardless of Allen,

you'd still want someone who could help fill that role better than what you have. So you'd still have to go and replace them. And there is the one guy from Dallas at Osa, I don't know, but, you know, but it sounds like he's going to stay in Dallas, or at least it sounds like they want him back. And I also don't think that he, I think he sounds more like a Johnny Newton type more than, you know, a guy who's going to help stop the run. So you'd have to find that guy now run stoppers. If you wanted to go just a run stopper top, they're not going to be as expensive. I mean, those interior guys get paid when you get after the passer too.

So, but that, but if they got rid of him, there would be, you know what, he's older. Has he, has he been as impactful? and then the contract. That combination is always why guys get released. But like I said, you could see, could they ask him to take a pay cut and just, you know, and give them guaranteed money in exchange for that, and then essentially it becomes a one-year-approved for him, right?

And then he hits free and see next year. That's a possibility. It's also before the season you would hear things about like possible extension. you know, to give, again, give them guaranteed money, give them a couple more years, and, you know, and here's the thing, like, they don't need the cap space. They're okay there, so if they do it, it clears cap space, but they don't have to do it, you know. And same thing with Wiley. Wiley, the one thing with Wiley is that he, you know, his cap hit as little over $10 million,

which is pretty affordable for a starting tackle. Now, the question is, do you still consider them that? and if you cut him, you're down to $7 million on the cap. But I think, you know, do you have to do it? No, but you have to have, because you don't have. Yeah, you've got to have a solution to not have it. Correct. And that's the thing with both of them is you don't, I don't know that you don't have the solutions on the roster.

And that's why, like, I'm always okay. Like, you want to get rid of a guy, that's fine, but what's the plan? And unless you have, unless, if you've identified somebody in free, then who can help you on that. That's one thing. But if you have, and if you, you know,

like, now this draft, you can find guard slash tackle types in there. So it gives you some flexibility. What if a tackle falls you at 29? And let's say, okay, then you can move Brandon Coleman either inside or to the right side.

If you wanted to, or put that guy on the left, right side. Now you have an opening or now you have your replacement and now you can go. If you want to do that. But they don't have to free up cap space if they don't. want to. And you can free up cap space too, Kevin, by extending McLaurin. Yeah, of course. You can free up a lot, a lot. The freeing up of cap space just isn't a priority. I think the

interesting thing about the John Allen contract, and I talked about this on radio today, is John got his extension back in 21, and he got a lot of money, he got a bunch guaranteed and got a lot of money in the first few years of the deal. One of the issues is that he basically has no money other than base salary left on his deal. What's ironic about that is it benefits the player to get as much up front as possible. And yet, when they get to the end of the deal, it almost feels like there's not nearly as much incentive to finish out the deal. But anyway, that's another conversation for another day.

Do you think there's any chance, any chance at all, that they regret doing the last a more deal. Any chance? I think that I would say I think they may have their fingers crossed going into training camp to see how he comes out of that. But, you know, if I'm them, I'm like, I hope that the injury impacted this year and that a good offseason will help him get back, will help him improve his play next year. So that's where I think if you get through training camp and you don't see it,

then it's going to be like, oh. But, you know, so, yeah, I think, and the heart, the thing is, like, you know, at the time when they made it, like, they made that trade because they saw, they knew what this free agent class was going to be, and they felt like he was a better alternative.

And, you know, it's funny because, like, when I talked, you talked to some people on league, it's like, well, this is kind of who he was because the injuries and all that, but, you know, I don't know, he's going to have to play, better for sure. All right. Because it was not, yeah, we saw it.

Thank you for doing this. Appreciate it as always. My pleasure. My pleasure. John Kine, everybody. Up next, Kevin Willard, Maryland's basketball coach, after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, if you've lost your

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But there's still time to take advantage of Windonation's amazing offer. Save 60% on all Windows styles and pay nothing for two years only at Window Nation right now. But you've got to hurry. This offer ends February 28th. Schedule your free in-home estimate now by calling 86690 Nation or visitingwindonation.com. That's 86690 Nation or windonation.com between now and the end of the month, 60% off on all window styles, and you don't have to pay anything for two years. Jumping on with me right now is the head coach of the Terps, Kevin Willard, Maryland, up to 16th now in the latest

Associated Press Top 25 poll. And Wednesday night, they face eighth ranked Michigan State and College Park, one of the biggest games of the season, really, in the Big Ten as the season hits its home stretch. Michigan State currently in first place, the Terps are two games back in third place. I know they all count the same, Kevin, but Wednesday night feels like it could be one of those nights at Xfinity. How are you viewing it heading into it?

Yeah, I mean, it's a big game. They are, you know, I think Coach is probably done his best coaching job with this group because they don't do anything excellent besides play hard. I mean, it's probably the hardest playing team I've seen on film in a long time. And they're talented players, but they are really connected. They play so hard for the whole game. And I think it's going to be a great night next thing. I'll get back to it towards the end on what you think the keys are.

But you're up to a, you know, 16th in the rankings, 11th in the net. You're one of six teams right now in the country, in the top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency per Ken Palm. 20 of the last 22 national champions have finished in the top 20 in both of those categories. You've coached some good teams. Don't get me wrong during your career. What kind of field do you have for where this one ranks in terms of your optimizes? heading into March? Yeah, I mean, I think what I like most about this team, Kevin, is they have team confidence.

And what I mean by that is that, you know, we obviously have some really talented players, Julian Reese, Jacoby Gillespie, Derek Queen, Rodney Rice is playing off the charts. But this is a team that has a lot of confidence in each other. And every time they step on the floor, they think they're the better team. And that's a good feeling to have as a coach because, You know that they're going to put the work in to be that way. And it's just a different feel for me because they just understand where they are. They all have very, very definitive goals both personally and for the team.

So it's a good feeling because I think they have a lot of confidence in themselves. You know, the confidence thing, I was going to ask you kind of about that. And the freedom, at least from the outside looking in, that you've given these guys. I mean, you didn't call a timeout in a close game at Nebraska in the second half at all. I think you may have burned your, you know, to have to call one at the end of the first half. And that was it. Have you ever given so much freedom to a team? No, but I mean, and I think these guys have earned it.

I mean, you know, going back to the Nebraska game, we had a really good matchup. You know, I like to with Guard and Rodney Rice. And, you know, sometimes you just have to let your really good players. kind of go one-on-one against a better matchup. And, you know, instead of giving Fred a chance to set up his defense and maybe switch somebody on to Rodney that was maybe a better defender, I had confidence the guys knew what we were going to run. We had the right play call, and they executed, you know, perfectly.

Also kind of on the theme of freedom, it seems in the confidence level, I mean, I can't remember watching a team where all five, players, the starters in particular, it's not that they take bad shots, but there isn't a shot that anybody's afraid to take, and you give them, it seems like, again, outside looking in, you give the freedom for them to shoot it, even in transition, even one-on-three. Seltin Miguel, you know, gets to spot up and shoot a wide-open three. I mean, that's a lot of, you know, sort of, you know, giving them kind of the chance to breathe. You don't see that a lot in college sports.

Yeah, I think, you know, the five stars are playing a bulk of the minutes. So I think they've all settled into the fact that, you know, everyone's going to eat at the table per se. I mean, it's just they know that everyone's going to get their shots. They have great confidence in the fact that we can throw the ball inside the Julian Reese, that we can get pain touches just by throwing it in. side. And they've all played very unselfishly. So I think part of the freedom is that they're playing unselfishly and playing with each other very well. I don't want to say that I've picked up on a

trend at all because I don't want to disclose anything, and I'm probably wrong anyway. But whenever you do call a timeout, let's just say another team goes on a run like SC did the other night after you guys had a big lead or, you know, Iowa had the first half that it had, it seems like you immediately decide we're going inside to Julian Reese. That's what's going to happen on this next possession. And if we're playing inside out, so be it, or Julian's going to get to the rim and score, or perhaps even get to the free throw line. Am I right about that or not? No, you are. I mean, I've been that way now for three years with Julian. I have so much confidence in him. You know, A, he's shooting the free throws really well. But, you know, even last year, we threw the ball inside

more than any team in the country. And it's one of those things when you have a player that is as smart as Julian is, has a good feel, understands where the game is and what's going on in the game. I just have a lot of confidence throwing the ball down into him. And I think the guys know that he's going to, he's either going to get foul, he's going to score, he's going to kick it back out, and we're going to change the momentum of the game. How much do you pay attention to seating, the bracketology, you know, out there? how important is seeding to you?

Oh, yeah, I mean, seedings everything. I mean, obviously for the Big Ten tournament. It's huge, you know, just because it's such a big tournament now that if you have, you know, just even the difference between playing on Thursday and Friday is monstrous. And obviously for the NCAA tournament, just if you look at the historical standards of who really wins national championships and gets the final fourth, you really, your seating is everything. But aren't matchups also, doesn't it come down to matchups as much as anything else?

I mean, that could be you as a three versus a six, but it also maybe a four versus a five is a more beneficial matchup. You never know. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, I think the deeper you get, once you get past really the first round, you're really going to play someone that either you match up well against or you don't match up well against or it's going to be a very good basketball team. So I think, you know, but if you just look at historically of the end, C double a tournament of who's gone far and who's gone farthest in the tournament.

It's always been a top four seat. Yeah. All right. We're talking to Kevin Willard, of course. At times, you guys seem literally flawless, especially on offense. What are the things that you want to get better at and improve upon down the stretch? I think the biggest thing is I just, I have to get my, you know, I have a lot of confidence in the bench scoring.

You know, one of the issues is the guys who bring off the, the bench give us great energy. They've all picked us up on the defensive end tremendously. And that's something that we've really focused on with that group is making sure that when they come in, they pick us up defensively, which they have. It's just now getting them to understand, all right? I've got to find someone just be able to get the basketball too and be able to score the basketball coming off the bench because those guys come off the bench have been great for us. They've picked us up. I just need them to probably score a little bit more. Is Gapari that guy more than the other three?

Yeah, I mean, the problem with Tafar is that, you know, he obviously got this bad stomach through and he missed eight days. I mean, he was eight days in bed and at this time of year, that's really tough because he got detrained. He lost 14 pounds in eight days, so we're trying to get him back. But Tafar is one of those guys that when he's on the court, you know, he can stretch it, make a three, it can change the game athletically. We just got to try to get him back to where he was. I've talked to you about Deshaun before, and the big shot he hit against Wisconsin, which was massive.

It was so great to see him take it. But there is the effort defensively, the rebounding, the whole thing is there. Offensively, though, how do you get him as a coach to feel more confident offensively? You know, again, I think that's just a matter of time, Kevin. I mean, he does so many good things well. He passes well. He knows our game playing in and out. I actually put him in at the power forward spot the other night.

He knew every play from the power forward spot. You know, sometimes it just takes certain kids longer. And, you know, he was never a shooter in high school. He was a guy that can get to his spot and create offense. It's just taking him a little bit longer to kind of figure out that he can't do what he was doing in high school. I think he's made huge strides. And eventually the light's going to go on that, you know, that he can make shots because he works on it relentlessly.

He shoots the ball excellently in drills. It's just a matter of sometimes it takes certain kids a little bit longer, but I do believe that the light will eventually go off for him. Are there matchups that you and your staff talk about as being more difficult for the group that you have? Others being the kind of matchup that would be more favorable? Do you look at that, like, this time of year, that you know what kind of team would give you the most trouble, you know what kind of team you would, you know, absolutely have no problem with? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not going to tell you which one.

I know. Which way or another, but yeah, I mean, at this time, like, there's a certain, certain teams that you look at that you're going to sit there and say, okay, this is not that there's nothing a layup in the Big Ten, but there's other teams that we've gone against that really cause us, cause us issues. So I think that what makes this conference so good and so unique is that besides being 18 teams, there's so many different styles. And the coaches coach at such a high level,

but there's so many different styles. And so to prepare certain styles really match our defense, certain defenses match our offense. So it's what makes the Big Ten so great. I was talking about this on my radio show this morning. I think because of NIL, I actually think it's a higher quality, game. And I understand that the portal teams change so significantly like yours did from last year, but I think the quality as we get to this time of year is better than it's been, maybe say

five, six, seven years ago. Do you agree or disagree? Yeah, no, I actually think that's a really, really valid point. I think, you know, because of, you know, especially since the transfer rule is gone, I don't know it is, I think NIL has a big part of it, but I do think the transfer rule has made it better where kids who had maybe transferred once and then all of a sudden realizing got better now can transfer again and they're transferring up to where maybe before a freshman would have transferred down a level and then not been able to transfer back up. I think the fact that kids are able to transfer back up a second time has really made the game much better. Would you prefer and nothing to do with your team this year?

an older, talented team or a younger, extremely talented team? Oh, no, in today's day and age, old. You know, I look at Rutgers, you know, and I think he's done a really good job with them. I mean, had a huge win against Washington the other night and beat USC pretty handily the other day. They have two of the best freshmen in the country. I mean, it's not even close. Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey are phenomenal players. It's going to be second, third,

picks in the draft. But they are very, very young. And the fact that they're so young, even though they're so talented, to go through college basketball and play at a high level, it's just, the older you are, the more you know how to navigate college basketball. You mentioned his name already twice, and I talked about him the other day. And look, all of your players have, you know, next level potential. We obviously know about Derek Queen. He's going to be a lottery pick. But in watching Rodney Rice this year, to me, he looks like a future NBA first round pick. Am I nuts? No, I mean, I think that's the great thing. You know, Rodney's been, you know, he hurt his ankle in early June that kind of slowed him down a little bit. But ever

since he's come back in July, you know, Rodney has an unbelievable work ethic. I mean, he's in the gym constantly. He's working on his shot. He's working on his game. And, you know, his great his greatest attribute is the fact that he has an unbelievable work ethic. So what you're seeing is you're seeing a young man who's worked extremely hard since the moment he's got here. And he's starting to figure out his game. And I have so much confidence in him because I'm starting to figure out his game and what we can do with him and the more stuff that we can do.

And I think he's blossoming into a phenomenal player. Yeah, really, really good. All right, let's finish up with Give Me the Keys to beating Michigan State Wednesday night. Really two big keys. We got to make sure that we don't turn the basketball over. They are elite transition offensive team, the best in the country. And they're the best in the country when you turn the ball over. And we're going to have to rebound.

You know, everyone knows Coach is how great a rebounding team is. This one's probably as good as anyone I've seen because of how hard they play. They're just every possession. They're going. They're crashing the glass. They're big. They're physical. So we've got to take care of the ball.

make sure we get a shot up on the rim every time, and then we got a rebound. Best of luck, Wednesday night. It's been a joy to watch it and can't wait to watch the rest of it. Thanks. I appreciate, Kevin Willard, everybody. Wednesday night's huge for the Terps and their chances to perhaps win or share in a Big Ten regular season championship. All right, up next, Greg Wasinski from ESPN to talk about Ovechkins

day yesterday and the season the caps are having. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. So guys, if you're like me and you've basically been buying and wearing this same type of underwear for years, in my case, boxer briefs, same brand, same type for a long time, well, not anymore for me. I want to tell you about skims for men, something I've discovered recently, the softest underwear I've ever worn. I got a few pairs of the 5-inch boxer briefs. So comfortable, no matter what you're doing, from sitting in a chair in your office to working out, they are so comfortable. They don't bunch up. They were made to recover from every stretch. The fabric is cool to the touch, and it just seems to mold to your body and never loses its shape.

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I recommend My Booky for all of your sports betting needs. I know football season is over, but March is right around the corner. We've got college basketball between now and the end of the regular season with big-time matchups, and then it's March Madness. And My Booky will have you covered all of the bracket contests that you want, all of the individual game betting opportunities with prop bets galore. MyBooky should be your home for March college basketball betting. Go to MyBooky.orgie.orgia.

Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. You get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. They've got all of your hockey out there. We're going to talk some hockey with Greg Wyshinsky here momentarily. Right now, the futures at My Bookie on the Stanley Cup. Here are the odds. The caps who have the best record in the NHL have the eighth best odds to win the Stanley Cup. Seven teams have better odds than the caps at plus 1250.

So if you think the caps are going to win the Stanley Cup, $100 pays $1,250 if they win the cup. Here are the teams that have better odds. Edmonton is currently the favorite. The team the caps just beat up. on yesterday. They are plus 610. Then Carolina, plus 650. Florida, plus 810. The Dallas stars are plus 940. Toronto is plus 1125. New Jersey, they're in the east, plus 1,200, and Winnipeg plus 1,200 before you get to the caps at plus 1250. That's seven teams, four teams in the East who have much lesser records than the Caps have better odds to win the Stanley Cup.

So if you're a Caps believer and you think they can win it all and we'll ask Greg Wushinsky about that coming up, $100 pays $1,250, $150. MyBooky at mybooky.ag use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. Jumping on with me right now is the senior N.A. L. Writer at ESPN, Greg Wyshinsky. I love having Greg on the show. He's an excellent guest. He's incredibly knowledgeable about the sport and communicates it in a very effective way. At Wysh On X on Twitter, WY-S-H-Y-S-H-Y-N-S-K-I. Alex Ovechkin, Hat-Trick against Edmonton, 13 away from Gretzky's goals-scoring record. I want to start by asking you, how hallows.

a record. Gretzky's goal record is. Is it comparable, say, to the home run record, you know, in baseball? I mean, whichever home run record you actually believe in, but a lot of people would say, you know, the most significant moment in that particular sport record-wise was when Hank Aaron passed Babe Ruth all the way back in 1974. Is Gretzky's mark comparable? That's an interesting question, because I I think it is comparable to the home run record insofar as, I mean, chick-stig the long ball, chick-stig goals. Right. Yeah.

To put it in Bull Durham terms. Goals are why we're here. Goals are what light the lamp. Goals are what pops the crowd. Goals are hockey, much like home runs are baseball. So from that aspect of it, as far as the glamour, the glamour stat, I think it's completely parallel. Now, there are other records in the NHL, which are probably more unbreakable.

than this one. Like, for example, the Gretzky points record. He is the highest point scoring player in NHL history. Famously, if you got rid of all of his goals and just based it on assists, he'd still be the highest point-producing player in the military. That's how he has. So that one is untouchable. I mean, that would take probably a reimagining of how we play hockey in the NHL, like dropping it to four-on-four at all times for anyone to get close to that. But for this one in particular, I mean, look, like, the goals record has stood for a very long time. It was monumental when Gretzky passed Gordie Howe for it. And now I imagine it'll be monumental when Ovechkin passes Gretzky because what Gretke's name resonates. Gretzky's name is one of the

more famous things still about the NHL. And for Ovechkin, a modern-day player to break that record, I think could be a moment that resonates beyond the hockey bubble. Why is Ovechkin doing what he's doing right now at 39 years old? Well, from his personal perspective, I think it's because the carrots in front of him. I mean, when you get to be this close to the record, I think you are so motivated to try to put this thing to bed before you turn 30. You know, who knows where the body goes after another off season, for example. So you get this close, you want to put it to bed. and I think that Ovechkin came out of the gate with that in mind.

I mean, the idea that a 39-year-old has his best opening to a season scoring goals that he's ever had, you know, better than when he was 20, better than when he was 29. You know, it's incredible the start he had. And then to see him still rocking and rolling late in the season, it's just mind-blowing. But I think the motivation is to try to get the record now. And then you can't deny the other part of this, which is the reason Ovechkin decided to re-sign with the Capitol, which is their promise to him that they weren't simply just going to be

an empty vessel in service of an NHL record, but they were going to be a competitive team that was going to try to make the playoffs and try to give him another Stanley Cup ring. They fulfilled that promise with some really smart, bold decisions managerially and the continued success of their prospect pipeline

from Hershey to Washington. And as a result, they've been at or right near the best team in the league this year, points percentage-wise, right with the Winnipeg Jets, and it's surrounded OVie with a really great offensive team that has helped foster this incredible goal-scoring season. How will it be received? Let's just assume that he's going to do it, and right now he's on track to do it this year, but whether it's the end of this regular season or the beginning

of next, we now know that barring a serious injury, knock on wood, it's going to happen. How will it be received by the NHL? Let's talk about the how it's going to happen thing first. ESPN stats and info keeps the running tally of his scoring rates. And right now, because of the hat trick, every scoring rate that they track says he's going to do with this season. If it's the current season pace, it would happen April 4th against the Blackhawks in Washington, which is pretty cool. And then obviously like career pace, April 12th at Columbus, if you take the average of his last five, seasons, he gets it done second, second the last game of the season.

So it's all pointing towards him getting it done if you go by the averages. How it will be received by the NHL is interesting? Because I think the NHL will obviously blow this thing out. It'll be huge. It'll be a monumental moment. Gretzky will be in the building for any game where he's close to breaking the record to have that moment with Ovechkin. The game will shut down.

It'll be really one that will remember insofar as the torch passing from Gretke to Ovetian as the best goal score of all time. How well, hockey fans, view it, is an interesting question, and it's gotten very much more interesting. There's a lot of hockey fans that don't like Ovi. They don't like Ovi because he's Ovi, and they don't like Ovi because of the Russia thing and the Putin thing. And, I mean, that has been an undeniable part of this,

and it's been difficult for some fans to get behind it because of it. Well, now the guy he's chasing, Wayne Gretke, is also not exactly a favorite son of hockey at the home because Gretzky's got ties to Donald Trump. He went to Mar-a-Lago, and now with all the stuff happening in Canada with the U.S. and Canada and all the geopolitical stuff that made the Four Nations tournament so interesting, well, Gretti all of a sudden his key rating has dropped in that country, where now the record that Ovetkin's chasing is held by a guy who his own country isn't really crazy about him right now.

So the entire perception of this thing from an outside-the-hockey perspective has really kind of turn out of Ted in the last two years in a way that I don't think anyone could have anticipated. Where Willow Vetchkin rank in terms of the greatest hockey players of all time after he passes Gretzky when he finishes his career? Let's just say, I don't know, the way he's playing this year, maybe he's got another couple of years. But where is he on the list right now if his career were to end at the end of this year with the record? Well, I've said for years that he's the best goal score of all time, whether or not he catches Gretzky. Like, the, the ability to do what he does in this version of the NHL,

with this number of teams, these defensive systems, goaltenders that actually know how to play their positions, unlike when Gretzky played. You know, the quality of athletes, the net that's cast around the world for talent in ways that simply didn't exist when Gretzky was playing in the mid-1980s, I mean, it's night and day, and what he's accomplished in his era is,

to me, so much more impressive from a goal-scoring perspective than what Gretzky accomplished. What is he seen as as an NHL player, though? I mean, there's always going to be this knock on him as being sort of one-dimensional. And, you know, that people think of Ovi as the guy who stands there in a circle and fires fuck up the net. Maybe in his older years, his latter years, he's kind of become that guy, but it completely ignores when he used to play the game with such velocity and such speed

in his first maybe decade or so in the league. he was a force of nature to play against. He'll all get dinged for not playing defense. I think that's the reason why, if you look at his generation, Crosby's always going to be ahead of him on those best player lists because Crosby is seen as a 200-foot player. But from a goal scoring perspective, it's unimpeachable. There's no one that touches him and his accomplishment this league.

So is he a top 10 player all time, top 20? I'm trying to gauge where he would be on a Greg Wyshinsky top 25 list of the greatest NHL players of all time. He'd be hovering around. I would say he's definitely top 15. I mean, I don't know if he breaks the top 10, to be honest with you, because you have to factor in other positions. You know, defensemen, goaltenders, things that nature, if we're counting down the top 10

players of all time, I don't know if Ovechkin cracks that. I think Gretsky does, but I don't think Ovechkin necessarily cracks that. Is Gretzky number one? No, not in my book. I think Mary Lemieux is the best hockey player I've ever seen. Because he has something that someone like Connerick David, for example, doesn't have, which is that he had size, and was able to do all of what he did with that size.

I think McDavid is clearly the most gifted player that we've seen since Mario, where he ends up statistically probably tells us where he'll end up on those top ten lists. But again, when you think about the players that we're talking about, you know, we're talking about Mario Gretzky, you know, Bobby Orr, Nick Lidstrom, you know, Patrick Waugh, Marty Bordor, like Dominic, Hasich. Like, there's a number of guys that I think I'm going to probably put ahead of Ovechkin on an all-time list. But then once you start to get down to top 15, it becomes sort of undeniable for Ovi to be there based on the goal record. And again, based on how he played for most of his career,

even if the knocks on him defensively are, you know, I think they're not unfounded. But again, the counterargument, that is, what's his job? Is his job to back check? Is his job to play like he played under Dale Hunter when he was the coach? Of course not. His job is to score goals. And so if you're tasked with that, you do it better than anybody else, then maybe you should be closer to the top 10 than I'd have him. Is there an element of his game right now that is just,

wisdom-based? I mean, hockey sense, sure. I mean, you know, listen, he's a different player than he was even five years ago, and so far as his foot speed and so far as, you know, the things of that nature. Like, he's clearly gotten older, right? And I thought, you know, one of the reasons why this record being set is such a shocker is because we all saw how we played in the playoffs last year against the Rangers. You look cooked.

we're thinking, you know, if he's going to break the record, it's going to have to be a system of levers and pullies, like it's weekend at Bernie's where somebody's manipulating his body up and down the ice in order to get it done because you look broken. And then he comes back and does what he does, and we're like, wow, this is incredible. So, yeah, he's changed the way he plays a little bit. There's a bit more conservation of energy, and there's definitely not the same sort of velocity with which he plays.

But it's not as if he's just, like, standing in front of the net tipping pucks. He clearly is still a viable player on this team and certainly has been an asset for a capital team that's been pushing for best in the league. So I'd mention that the math adds up to the Chicago game at the current pace on April 4th. But I've also mentioned previously going back a few weeks that, and I'm just curious because I don't think I've mentioned this to you. I know you were on radio with me a few weeks ago, but what if he broke the record at Pittsburgh in the season? finale. How would that be received? It would be incredible. I mean, the thing you have to, well, first of all, how would it be received in Pittsburgh?

I think they'd appreciate it. Yeah. I really do. I think that what's happened with the Crosby-Ovetian rivalry is one of my favorite things about hockey in maybe the last 25 years, where you had these two guys that were such a contrast. They were the Beatles and the Stones, basically, right? You know, the Golden Child child, Sid the kid, versus the rock star Ovechkin. Crosby racked up the cup wins and the Olympic wins. OV's legacy was in trouble if he doesn't win the cup. He wins the cup.

And I think after he won the cup, everything just kind of calmed down between them. And they became friends. They would hang out at the All-Star game and gibbets on the ice. And it was really fun to see these two legendary figures. Two guys that, frankly, if you think back to, the canceled season in 2005 has much to do with the revival of the NHL as outdoor

games or teams like the Blackhawks in Boston becoming a good again. Like the Crosby and Ovechkin were the bird in the magic of our league and they let it back from the abyss. And so I think where that rivalry is between those two guys would allow Pittsburgh

fans and allow the penguins themselves to celebrate the moment because I think there's been sort of a truth, if you will, between those two guys ever since O'B won the Cups. Yeah, I mean, not knowing anywhere near as much as you do, that was my gut is that, especially given that more likely than not, it's not going to be an important game for Pittsburgh.

You know, like they are not really in the mix here for a postseason birth. I guess they're not out of it mathematically, but especially if that game means nothing. And Crosby's reaction to it would be actually the most intriguing thing about it happening. there if it were to happen there. I mean, it probably won't, but I guess there's a chance that it will. All right, before we get to the Caps as a team and what you see coming up here over the next month and a half, plus, I'm curious as to where you were before the Four Nations started

and then obviously the takeaway. Of the tournament? Yes. Were you anticipating this to be as big of a deal as it turned out to be? Well, I anticipated USA Canada to be as big as it was. Like, that was the easiest sell the leagues ever had. I mean, it's a rivalry that everyone understands. It's the U.S. trying to be the best of something that someone else claims to be the best at.

I mean, I think people forget that, like, an entire women's league was built on the back of the USA Canada rivalry and the crowds that those games would get when they'd tour with it. Like, that's how easy of a sell it is. And so that Saturday night game in Montreal was always going to be a transcendent one. The environment was going to be right for it. The fact that this was the first time we were getting McDavid, McKinnon, McCar, the Cichucks, Matthews, all these guys in the same game together representing their countries. And we hadn't had best on best in, like, several years.

Like, it was a guaranteed win. What I didn't anticipate was how good the tournament as a whole was going to be. And I certainly didn't anticipate the geopolitical thing that fueled the booing of the anthem, the back and forth between the teams. All of that stuff was unpredictable and had a big impact on the interest in the game, along with obviously not realizing there'd be three fights and nine seconds, courtesy of the Kachuk brothers, which certainly also helped fuel the interest in the tournament. I mean, it's remarkable.

9.3 million people on average to watch this thing. Based on what I've read, it's the most watched hockey game maybe of all time. You've got to go back to the 70s when Nielsen and the ratings ability wasn't anywhere near as sophisticated. I mean, that to me, I didn't, look, you're talking to somebody who didn't even know what was going on until it started. But I watched that championship game, and I felt that bigness about it. I just can't believe that 9.3 million people watched it. I mean, yeah. I think the ESPN machine being behind it, I mean, not to shoot around horn, but it helps.

I mean, I could not believe how much hockey we had on the air. Every 15 minutes, there was a guy being interviewed on Sports Center. You know, every show covered it. it was blasted out there into the world that this thing was going to be happening. This rematch was going to happen. And that, you know, the thing that you heard about on Saturday night with the fights and the booing and the whole thing, well, they're running it back for a rematch for the championship. I mean, that's an undeniable sell.

I think the thing that no one anticipated was how far outside the hockey bubble the action on Saturday night reached. You know, when you start to see people that never talk about hockey, talking about the fighting and everything else, you knew that it had reached a level that was unanticipated. And the big thing about it, too, though, is that you've got to deliver the goods. Like, it's one thing to have a rivalry, it's one thing to have the fight, one thing to capture the attention of people.

But when they settled in to watch Saturday, or they settled in to watch the championship match, they saw this sport played at the best level it could be played with the greatest players that we have to offer. And so, you know, once you see the apex of the sport in that environment, like it just becomes narcotic. And I'm not surprised with so many people tuned in after getting a taste of it on Saturday. Well, and you mentioned it.

The political environment, you know, weight into it as well. Did this thing ultimately kill the NHL All-Star game along with the Olympics? I wrote about that on Friday. on ESPN.com if people want to check it out. So they have an All-Star game scheduled for next year for some reason. It's in, it's in at UBS Arena, the Islander's home. It happened before the players leave for the Olympics. Oh, okay.

And so the schedule now for the NHL is Olympics next year, two years later, World Cup of hockey comes back, potentially with Russia being involved if the Ukraine thing has been resolved by then, and then two years after that, the Olympics, two years after that woke up, and that's going to be the cadence. So the real question is, what is the four nations faceoff do with the years in between those events? Because the All-Star game does not have another one of the books after this one next year.

And the question is, do you strike while the iron's hot? Do you do like a summit series between the USA and Canada instead of an All-Star game? My source has told me that every possibility is now on the table because of the success of this Four Nations thing, where they don't even know what they're doing now, but they know that they have a chance to really capitalize on something special if they do it right. All right. Lastly, the caps, they are right now the best team in hockey based on total points. they're running away with the Eastern Conference one seed. So where do you kind of put them in the hierarchy of the Eastern Conference in terms of chances to advance to the Stanley Cup finals and potentially win the whole thing?

I think they're being slept on. I've got to be honest with you. I mean, you look at what they've been able to accomplish and where they are in the league rankings and offense, in defense, in goal scoring, the depths that they have, the contributions throughout the lineup they get. I don't think people really understand how good this team is and how well it's come together. And again, the bold decisions that management made to bring in a Du Bois and bring in a chickering

and have those guys perform as they have and the ability to probably get even better at the trade deadline if they're smart about it, it's a really good hockey team. And so, you know, I think there's this anticipation of, well, they squeaked into the playoffs and then got their behinds handed to them by the Rangers last year. they can't be what they are in the regular season in the playoffs. But, I mean, there's every chance they could be. I look at them and they look at Winnipeg, and I see two teams that because of their lack of postseason success recently,

just kind of get lamb-based despite having all this stuff in the regular season going their way. I think the caps could win the cup for sure. I really do. I think every time I've seen them, whether they blow you away or not, and lately they've just been, you know, racking up the goals, they're a team that just finds ways to win and find them ways to win in different ways. And as long as, you know, OV's viable and it doesn't end up looking like he did in the playoffs last year, it's going to be a very, very good team of the playoffs.

Is there a matchup in the east that would you describe as the biggest concern matchup for them? Well, I mean, I think it's less of a matchup issue as a these are just really, really good hockey team's issue. I think anyone who plays Carolina in the playoffs is always in for a really rough series and a series that's played to the margins. I mean, one of the reasons why they've made the Miko Rantman trade this year and the Jake Gensel trade last year, is they know they've been like one goal away from breaking through to play for the cup. And so those are really tough series.

Those are really tough defensive systems, and it might be a real grind. The other team, obviously, is Florida. We assume Matthew Chuck will be healthy for the playoffs. if that's the case, the core of that team is just so good and so tough and so playoff tested that anybody who plays them in the postseason is going to be in for a real grind. They probably still have to add a little bit to their lineup to be anywhere as good as they were the last two seasons, especially last year when they won the Cup. But Florida is the toughest of tough outs in the East.

Yeah, just looking at kind of the standings, like I think right now, the caps would open up with like the lightning who would be, I'm sorry, Detroit, who would be sort of the last wild card and I guess, you know, the eighth seed for all intents and purposes. Yeah, and that's one, and that's a team they should be, you know, in the playoffs, really any of the wild card teams are ones that they should be able to handle. And, you know, the good news to them, obviously, is I think they are firmly in the number one spot in the in the metro division which means it'll probably be one of those

wild card teams they have to play against thanks for doing this i always enjoy it you do such a great job uh i appreciate it hope you're well and we'll try to catch up before the postseason starts or before the record set which uh probably comes first thanks greg anytime exciting times greg wishinsky everybody he's really good uh i enjoyed him john and kevin willard on the show today back tomorrow with tommy