The Kevin Sheehan Show - Ovie In OT + Draft Edges

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Kevin and Thom today started with Alex Ovechkin's first-ever playoff overtime goal to beat Montreal 3-2 in Game 1 of the Caps' first-round series. Somehow they veered into a conversation about Larry Bird before Kevin talked "edge" rushers in the 2nd segment of the show. They finished up with Kawhi Leonard's epic performance last night in Denver and Mavs' owner Nico Harrison admitting that he wasn't aware how much Dallas fans loved Luka Doncic. Go to zbiotics.com/SHEEHAN and use SHEEHAN at checkout for 15% off any first time orders of ZBiotics probiotics.Goldbelly.com, code sheehan, for free shipping and 20% off your first order of food from around the US.  Go To WindowNation.com. Buy 4 windows, get 4 free!Betting on sports? Go to https://www.mybookie.ag/. Use code KEVINDC for a bonus!   Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Off this draw, it's sports loose. On tempo ready. Rebound it tight.

First time in his career. 226 and overtime, Joe Beninati on the call. Caps survive what was an ugly final 10 minutes of the third period. but they take game one on Alex Ovechkin's first ever playoff overtime goal on his 45th career opportunity. Tommy's here, I'm here, the show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windonation 86690 Nation, windonation.com. Plenty on the draft today. We've got other things planned. I don't usually tease what's coming up on the show when I have you on because usually we don't have it well planned out.

No, it usually goes off the rails. Yeah, yeah. Take a left-hand turn and there's no talent what we'll wind up talking about. No, but we knew going into the show today that we would be starting with the Caps because I watched the game and you were at the game. In fact, I think I was just telling you this before the show started. Joe Beninati, who was on with me on radio this morning, just called me to talk about something that he had said on the radio show with respect to the second period caps goal,

which appeared to be a borderline high stick, but Montreal decided not to challenge it. We'll get into this in a moment. He was calling about that because he had said something on the show and he wanted to make sure I was clear on it, but he said, I saw Tommy last night. It was really good to see Tommy at the game. And I said, well, he must have had excellent parking.

So it looked like a lively crowd for sure. It was. It was. And the Caps gave them every reason to be lively at the beginning of the game. Their coach, Spencer Carberry, said after the game, it may have been the best first period they played in a month. they really looked good. And it wasn't just

the way they were, you know, offensively, the way they were hitting, with Ovechkin leading the way. I mean, he was almost like a man possessed with all the hitting he was. Yeah. So they looked really good at the beginning.

That would have made it even worse if they had blown that game. Oh, my God. So true. So they were so in control in the first two, periods, you know, and to have to have wilted and to have lost that game under those, you know, given the way they started off, just would have been nightmare scenario, would have conjured up

all sorts of bad ghosts all over again. Yeah. I felt the same way. I'm like, you know, the start of the game, the caps were so overwhelming that, you know, the fact that the Montreal goaltender, who was outstanding, kept them in the game. And I'm not, you know, I'm not thinking back 15 years to the Halak thing, but that's the last time they faced Montreal. But this goalie apparently has been a goalie playing well. And at the end of the first period, they had a power play goal from Ovechkin, which was

thrilling. And you got to the second period, and they had that second period goal, which was a bit, you know, a bit controversial Bovillier had the goal which the stick was kind of high. And this is what Joe B was calling me on to say that what he had said on radio wasn't necessarily exactly the case. The bottom line is had Montreal challenged that goal and the stick had been deemed to be at shoulder or higher height, it would have been disallowed. And there was some belief that because it was off the stick and hit the goaltender before it was put back in the net, that it couldn't be high sticking. It actually could be high sticking.

But Montreal's video group said there was not a clear cut view of the stick being higher than shoulder height. I learned something actually from this conversation, and I'll just tell you right now what it was. So a high sticking on a on a puck that goes into the net, if that stick is higher than the goal post, it's high sticking. If a high stick happens in the course of play and it's not a goal,

it's got to be above your shoulder. I'm sure many of you hockey people listening to this know what the rule is. I didn't know what the rule was. But with respect to the Beauvilliers goal, because it hit the goalie and came back to him, it was already potentially a high sticking if the stick was higher. But the Montreal video team did not have a clear view of the stick being higher than shoulder height. I thought it was higher than shoulder height. I just got totally sidetracked on something that I was just talking to Joe B about.

The point that I was about to make is they dominated for basically 50 of the 60 minutes and had a 2-0 lead. It felt like it should be 5 to nothing. And when Montreal turned it around over the final 10 minutes, dominating the game, I was like, oh, my God, this would be a bad loss. They almost lost in regulation. Yes. Yeah. It would have been a horrific loss to have started off, especially since they didn't, like I said,

they started off playing so well. They started playing off like a one-seat should when they're playing an eight-seed. You know, but then it flipped. And Montreal, look, this is the thing with hockey. We've seen eight-seeds. beat one seeds, and it seems random. But in the sense that usually a lot of times eight seats have been playing playoff hockey

for a couple of weeks just to get into the playoffs. Yeah, we see that a lot in sports in general. Yeah, the teams that have been... And one seats and one seats are usually skating, literally. Didn't help the caps last year. No, it didn't. Yeah. But to your point, I mean, you know, like over the years, college basketball, as an example,

those teams that have to win their conference tournaments and they get in that way and they're just rolling and they're used to playing in these pressure one-and-done games are often dangerous because they have that, you know, they've got that feeling. I mean, we see it even in the NFL playoffs. The teams that have a buy week sometimes start off slowly. But yeah, but hockey is even, you know, even stranger because of, you know, the randomness of puck luck. But, you know, over those final, the final 22 shots of the game on goal, 20 of them were by Montreal. That's crazy.

I mean, they dominated that last 10 minutes. And what I would wonder, actually, not being a hockey person, but I did ask Joe B this on radio today, is that it, It appeared as if Montreal being new to the playoffs, most of them being new to the playoffs, they haven't been in a few years. They were perhaps nervous to start. Well, now they have, even though they lost the game, they played so well in the third period. I wonder whether or not, you know, the caps are in a little bit of danger the other way at the start of game two tomorrow night.

But what do I know? It was a very exciting game. Playoff hockey that goes to overtime is thrilling. And Alex Ovechkin is having, crazy to say at 39 years old, maybe the most memorable year of his career. He's in the midst of right now. Let's talk about that for a minute. Okay.

This is something I wrote about for tomorrow's paper in the Washington Times. You can read it in Washington Times.com slash sports tomorrow, or you can find it on my social media accounts. I wrote about the fact that, I think, like, the narrative, after Oveschkin broke Gretzky's record, the narrative suddenly switched to, okay, now the caps can start concentrating on getting ready for the playoffs, okay, because, you know, they've been so geared

towards Oveskine getting this record, and that last time somehow contributed to their struggles near the end of the season, you know, that it got in the way. Right. And I just, I just, thought about that and thought about, you know, it's not like Alex Ovechkin was Willie Mays, stumbling in the outfield. Good point. You know, try to catch. Alex was playing great.

He was their leading score. He was a third leading score in the league, and he missed 16 games. If he didn't do that, he would have led the league and scoring. Yep. Him scoring still remains their best weapon right now. So this idea that him trying to score to break the record was somehow holding them back? It's kind of absurd. I mean, you know, they need him to keep playing like he's trying to break a record.

He's carrying them, isn't he? I mean, you know. He did he yesterday with his hits and with his golf scoring. He really did. He set the tone right from the start, and then he saved their ass in overtime. I saw something on ESPN.com yesterday. It was the top 50 players in the NHL playoffs right now. And of the top 50 players in the NHL playoffs,

the Caps had one player on the list out of 50. And that player came in at 33 on the list, meaning that there are 32 players, according to this top 50 list, that are better than any player on the caps. And coming in at number 33, and the only capital on the list was Alex Ovechkin at 33. That's my point.

Yeah. That's my point. My point is that, you know, people took this march on Gretzky as, you know, I've got closer as some kind of distraction. But, you know, I mean, I don't think we realize that, look, the cats won 51 games this year. No one expected them to do that. No.

No what? I mean, this is not like a talented team that suddenly came of age. Okay, it was kind of a mixture, a patched-up team. You know, it's not a particularly young team. And basically, I think you could argue that they rode the Ovechkin-Gretzky goal-scoring record wave to this point. He had at least one point in 15 of the last 16 games. Yeah. He just carried them last night to a playoff win with three points, two goals and an assist,

the oldest player in NHL history to assist or score on at least three goals scored in a game for a team. I mean, I'm with you. Now, you know, they might say, look, it was, you know, the distraction of all the, you know, cameras and interviews and discussion about it and going to each town, I'm sure, was a bit of a zoo. because it was like, here come the caps, here comes Ovechkin. You know, Willie scored a night. Playoff hockey is in a way. Yeah, true.

Play off hockey, the media excruity. He goes ranks ramps up. Yeah. I don't know enough to know whether or not they had a bad record, even though Ovechkin played really well, if that somehow was, you know, a distraction. But I would tend to lean towards what you said. And in fact, I had Alan May.

on the podcast on Friday. And I asked him, and he said the same thing. He said, I don't think it was. He said, you know, I forget specific, I don't think it was the exact same reason you gave, which is, I mean, this wasn't, you know, a ceremonial trip to a record. The dudes lighten it up. He's third in the league. If he had played all, you know, if he had played even just 75 games or 76 games,

I think he would have actually gotten to 53, which was 52 was the, goal mark this year. It was, what's his face from Colorado, not Colorado. The dude from, the dude from Edmonton. Drysiddle. You just went too far. No, Drysidal. I wanted to mention it.

But by the way, he didn't play anywhere near 82 games either. Because I was looking at this the other day. The guy Leon Dreysitl, Edmonton, I believe, had 52 goals, Ovechkin tied for third with 44. and Ovechkin played 65 games, and I think Drysaitle played like 70. So he was short a bunch of games, too. But still, the point being, Ovechkin finished third and didn't play in 17 games. Because you know why? He broke his leg.

Yes. Our instincts tell us that not to expect a 39-year-old hockey player to be doing what we saw him do last night. And I think that also gets in a layer to narrative. we ignore what we've seen and we buy into what we've known over the years. And again, it wasn't just the goal scoring. He was like Ray Lewis on Skates. Seven hits led the team.

Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't avoiding contact. Not at all. No. You know, I was thinking just about, because I said this to Joe on radio, I said, you know, this is just me, you're there, you live this, but he may actually, 10 years from now,

we may look back on his career and say that this was the most memorable year of his career. And he said, he said, it's stupid to say it, but it's probably true. I mean, the season he had, including after the broken leg, obviously the Gretzky chase, and then he gets his first. overtime goal, and if they go on a run here, I'll tell you what, it certainly feels like something's happening with this season and the Great Eight and where this might lead to. Yes. Yes, it does. They got great goaltending, West night too, for the most part. So did Montreal. Yeah, yeah, they did. But maybe with Ovechkin, and this is just an interpretation,

You know, it's something you could argue. But again, something we're not used to from a 39-year-old. Maybe we're at the point, he's at the point in his career where it's the peak of talent and wisdom. You know? I mean, his talent has diminished, but his wisdom, his experience, his maturity is probably at an all-time high. and it's kind of like two things going in different directions, meeting at the point where they've been the most effective. Yeah, I mean, it's the what you'll call it graph thing.

I'm forgetting the name of it. But I would think that it's not 39 or 40. It would be like 34 or 35, don't you think? Yes, yeah, normally. Normally it would be. It's not what we expect from 39 years old. Where did it happen with Brady that he was at that moment of the most wisdom and the least amount of athleticism, but still, but it produced, you know, one plus one equals three? Yeah, I'd have to go back and look at it.

Because Brady is, he's the example of this. But then again, it seemed like he had the wisdom all along. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's definitely, in sports, you know, I guess it applies to hockey, too. I think it applies to all these sports. But, you know, especially in these best of sevens, and I know hockey's different than basketball, because basketball, you see the best teams win, best of sevens.

Yes, he did. You just do. In hockey, you don't necessarily see that. But like in the NBA, older teams with experience and wisdom end up winning in the playoffs so much more often than younger inexperienced teams. Even when the younger inexperienced teams are extraordinarily talented. And there's just a lot to be said for knowing how to play. You know, knowing how to play the game. and then knowing how to win when you get to a certain point in the season where the sports change

because basketball and hockey change in the postseason. Yes. He's amazing, though. He really is. I mean, last night was awesome. It's just awesome to see. Yeah. And it would have been a shame if they had lost that game after the way they started out and the way he played.

they better have their heads on they better have their heads on straight for game two okay I'd ask you what sort of adjustments you think both teams will make for game two but my guess is there's not much of an answer from you nor is there one from me I know this the caps did lose

Faravari Faravari their defenseman who got hurt recently and he had surgery and he's out for the postseason So they've had some injuries, you know, some key injuries here, and they're not the healthiest that they've been. But, man, it does seem like there is something special going on with Ovi. All right.

Anything else on hockey? No, it was a great atmosphere as typical for a cat's home game, particularly a cat's playoff game. Yeah, it looked like it. You know, last night was – I actually loved this time of year, and I know that you don't necessarily care for it one way or the other. But once you get into this week, like this is a busy sports week with the NBA and the NHL playoffs beginning and the NFL draft.

But then as we go through the next two months, but really not so much two months because the number of games shrink as, you know, you go round by round. But like the next few weeks when there are three to four playoff games in both the NHL and the NBA on the same night. It's, I mean, these are the games that matter. Like, I mean, last night, I'll tell you about watching basketball last night, maybe in the final segment of the show. But after watching basketball last night, actually Charles Parkley on the TNT Post

game show said, we got to wrap this up because we've got Colorado and Dallas in overtime. And Edmonton and L.A. are coming down the wire because Barclay is like a massive hockey fan. So I immediately turn over because it's an overtime hockey game. Man, that Dallas crowd dressed in green, lit up in green. They were down 1-0 after losing game 1 at home. The atmosphere of a and the tension associated with a sudden death playoff overtime hockey. game is really tough to beat, man. And then at the same time, Edmonton scores two goals in about a minute with about two and a half minutes to go to go from down 5-3 to 5-5. But then the King scored

with like 40 seconds to go to win the game. It was crazy. I like this time of you. I like this time here. It is. Oh, it's a lot of fun. You mentioned Barkley, just to take the train off the tracks for a second. I saw a video clip of Barclay being interviewed, and the question was put to him, does he think he was a better player than Larry Burke? And Barclay said, I think I was a better rebounder, and he was. He says, I think I was a better defender, but I wasn't a better score. You think that's accurate? A hundred percent, and he wasn't a better passer. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't that I think that's accurate.

Yeah. Barkley has a, I've always found, like, with respect to, you know, the conversations about older players, and I think he, I tend to agree with him. But you just brought something up that ended up being an argument in my house on Saturday night, because I had, we had people in for Easter weekend. And my youngest son, oh, you would have just, I don't know, you may have left the house had you been there. because somebody, you know, on social media said something about Luca's game. So this must have been on Sunday because, whatever it was. Basically, my son said, I mean, like to even compare Larry Bird to Luca Donchich,

I mean, you'd have to, you got to be an idiot. I mean, there's no way that Larry Bird could do what Luca Donchich does in today's game. And my sons and I, two of my sons and me have these arguments all the time. I actually enjoy them a lot of the time. And I actually said, you know what? You just came up with the example that is absolutely the opposite. Because Luca is the example of why Bird would excel in today's game. All right?

Larry couldn't guard anybody back then, wouldn't be able to guard anybody today. Luca's bigger, but he's also out of shape typically and a little bit heavy. Luca is a great score, a great facilitator. If Larry Bird played in today's game where shooting threes once you cross half court isn't frowned upon, he'd school people offensively. Now, he would struggle the guard on the other end. There's no doubt about it. He struggled during his heyday.

at times to guard. But Luca can't guard anybody. And I just said, Luke is the example. Luca is all, it's skill. His skill level is so high, and that's what Larry Bird was,

not to mention that Larry, that's a bad comparison for him to make. Yeah. I mean, you know, the thing about Byrd, nobody, I think, has benefited more from YouTube, than Berg, because there are stories all over YouTube.

Not just about how Bird played, but how he would trash talk. And he would tell his opponent, he would tell the guy guarding him, I'm going to take the ball, I'm going to go down to the corner, I'm going to take two steps, and I'm going to bank it. And he would do that. And it's in every story about Bird, you know, every one of them. You know, Kareem says Bird is his favorite player of all time,

and they got into a fight. Well, I'll never forget that one, yeah. Yeah. So you're right, that's the one guy who you can absolutely say would shine today. Now, you know, you don't like this, but I end up siding

with my sons and their friends when it comes to, when they look at highlights of basketball like, you know, the Cousy Celtics. And they're like, come on. And I'm like, no, I'm with you on that. That is a completely different game athletically and even skill-wise. Now, the skills were great. I'm not saying that Jerry West and Bob Coozy and Pete Marevich weren't highly skilled.

You know, Bob Cousie is a different era than Jerry West. That's, well, they did play against each other. They did have a crossover. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But really, there's a big difference between the Jerry West era and the Bob Coozy era. even though it's not that much in time.

I know. I think that, you know, I always point to this example, like when people compare Michael and LeBron. I'll take Michael just because Michael was a killer, and to me, LeBron's never been what Kobe and Michael were, or Larry Bird was. And you and I both love magic, and that's almost a completely different conversation.

But the difference, if you just fast forward, you know, the 20 years or whatever, really it's more like 10 years, and, you know, when LeBron's young, but fast forward to 20, the middle of LeBron's career. Michael was 6-6 and like 195. LeBron is 6-8 and 265-270. There's just a massive physical difference in a lot of the players in today's game versus back then. Now, there are, you know, there are exceptions. Like I always point to Carl Malone, Carl Malone's body you could take from 1985 and pluck it down in 20,

25 and he's not going to look any different. But there is a big difference physically and athletically. The game has always been played above the rim. Now it's played almost at the top of the glass. Like it's almost ridiculous where these guys end up when they're dunking the ball. The head is fully above the rim. They take off from much longer distances. They physically can't be stopped by.

somebody defensively. The game has evolved in years, especially when they got rid of the hand check in like 2004, 2005, or whenever that was. There are every year now 25 to 30 guys that you cannot guard with one person, even the best defender in the game. It's impossible. You have to double team them. And that speaks to, and I don't want to go down this road. Yes, you do. I think you do. No, I don't. No, I don't. Just because people, as, athletes that play a game are bigger, stronger, faster, it doesn't mean the game is better. That's a different argument, yes. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. So bigger, stronger, faster does not necessarily add up to better results. No. But at times, it is, wow, I can't believe people are that athletic because NBA players are the best athletes on the planet. I truly believe that. I know there are a lot of people that would say, no, it's soccer players. Soccer players are much smaller, and what NBA players are doing it, much bigger sizes.

It's amazing. But anyway, the skill level two is ridiculous. The shooting's ridiculous. The shot making is ridiculous. But that's where I think guys like Bird, you know, would be incredible in today's game. I mean, imagine Byrd being able to pull up from 35 feet regularly. I mean, Barclay, it's score, shooter, playmaker, passer. He's one of the all-time greats.

He's the greatest passing big man ever. Would you agree if you want to call him a big man or call him a forward? Yeah, I would. You know, people have the rest of the feet. He didn't play. One thing that players will say the first time they see Larry Bird is how big he actually is. Exactly. They're caught surprise as to how big.

Yes. There are a couple of athletes like that. You know, Tom Brady. Tom Brady, if you just watch Brady on a football field, when Brady walks onto a field and you're there like we were in Richmond, What struck me was just how big he is. And Peyton Manning is a big dude. A lot of these quarterbacks are big guys.

Really big guys. All right. I have some draft discussion next. I did kind of running backs yesterday because running backs are a possibility for Washington. I'm going to quickly go through kind of the edge defensive events in the draft after watching far too much. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll give it a shot, Tommy, right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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Really good delis and really good sandwiches, sandwich meats. There are a couple of places, but I'm telling you, Mikey and Melz, if you're downtown, check it out. I really liked it. They have so many things, too. Soups and, you know, overstuffed sandwiches, salads, you know, they got everything. And they do breakfast, too. I mean, it's a true Jewish-style deli at 18th in L. Northwest. Do you like sandwiches like good deli sandwiches? You do,

right? It's not a passion of mine, but I like them. I mean, you've done ham and cheese. What was that sandwich you used to bring in all the time? Was it ham and cheese? Was it ham and cheese? Yes. And it was plain, right? You had nothing on it? Nothing on. Again, I don't like any illusions to get in the way of the reality of the food I'm eating. Okay. Well, this is good stuff down there. Anyway, all right. Yesterday on the show, I did just, I will admit that this is the most preparation for a draft for the purposes of the show that I have done in a long time. And I figured out the reason for it, Tommy. It's really simple. When you're not picking at the top of the draft, there are so many more possibilities.

When you're picking at 29, it's like, you know, I could wing it and it would sound fine. for most of you, but those of you that would know would really know. And by the way, I'm also interested. I actually like doing this and I watch a lot of college football. But I have done in terms of running backs, edge rushers, and cornerbacks. I've watched so much in the way of highlight reels primarily, but also read a lot about these players. because a lot of them I didn't know anything about.

And so I'm going to tell you, like I did yesterday with running backs, what I think of these edge pass rushers, because that's a position where Washington is expected to add a player and probably in the first round. That is the odds on favorite, although I think it could be anything. Let me just tell you, the more I'm getting into this, the more I'm thinking Washington might end up taking an offensive lineman at 29. And I have not looked at all of the offensive linemen.

I don't know if I will. So, edge defense events. The best one in the draft is Abdul Carter. You could make the case that he's the best player in the draft. I think that's Travis Hunter personally. He is Tommy a pass rusher, you know, war number 11 at Penn State, you know, the famous LeVar Arrington number. And he plays like Parsons, plays like Arrington.

I don't think like a lot of people do that he's like a generational kind of player. Chase Young, when he came out in 2020, really appeared to be a generational talent. Miles Garrett definitely looked that way in 2017. I don't think Abdul Carter is that. I don't think he's Miles Garrett coming out. I don't think he's Chase Young coming out. I don't think he's, I mean, he might be one of the Bosa brothers, But he's really, really good and athletic and, like they say, twitchy,

because he just has that quick twitch, explosive speed off the edge. He's not a bad run stopper either. I like him a lot. He's clearly number one, but I don't think he's going to be Miles Garrett or maybe not even Micah Parsons. That's just me. He played an unbelievable game. against Notre Dame in the college semis, when he was hurt, I mean, he was carrying his shoulder around and went out there and played a phenomenal game.

There's talk, there's reports today that teams are trying to trade up from the back of the draft or from the middle part of the draft to draft either Carter or either Abdul Carter, but perhaps even Ashton Genti. I can't imagine somebody's going to trade up to draft a running back, or Travis Hunter, who I think is the best player in the draft. But anyway, Carter's the best. For me, Washington's not going to get him. The second best is this guy, Mike Green from Marshall. Man, is he a great pass rusher? I think he's good against the run as well.

He's also only about 245 pounds, and he had these issues in high school and at UVA, which is why he transferred to Marshall, these second. harassment allegations. And I said this about James Pierce last week, the guy from Tennessee. I don't think Washington's going to take Pierce because he could be available at 29 because of all of the work ethic, you know, concerns. Washington's just probably not going to draft a player that's got any red flags. But Mike Green, to me, along with Carter, are separate from the rest of the edge rushers

in defense events. Like to me, they're one, two, and then you get separation and you get a bunch of guys. It's like a hodgepodge of everything. You know, it depends on what you're looking for. It depends about your scheme. It depends on, you know, how you evaluate the person and the character and the intangibles. Jalen Walker is a hybrid. He's going to go before Washington picks out of Georgia.

Shamar Stewart tested ridiculously well, unbelievably athletic. But he had one and a half sacks last year at Texas. A&M. But I think he'll be gone. He did have a ton of pressures, which is, you know, one of those things where sometimes pressures end up in sacks and sometimes they don't, but you want pressures too. And then we get to like the list of players that I think might be there for Washington at 29. Like Mike L. Williams from Georgia, I would love. Like if he were the pick at 29, I don't think he makes it there. He might. But 6-5, 2-7, Ohio State, one of these guys with super long arms,

like he looks like a long arm tarantula. And he's just like the body type of these D-Ns in the NFL. He is at times unblockable, physical. To me, if he's there, you certainly have to consider him. It would surprise me if he's there on their board at 29, he's not the best player on their board. A lot of people have said Donovan Azaruko, the player from the pass rusher from Boston College.

There's, you know, the more and more you look at mocks, he may not be there either. Yet the thing you have to know about him, he's a pass rusher only right now. He's not an edge-setting run-stopper. He's 245 pounds, you know, max, really like one of those quick, bendy can get low almost on the ground as he goes around to tackle.

He's got pretty long arms as well. And, you know, he's one of those guys that apparently super high character people really like him. But he's a pass rusher. Like if you draft him, you're not solving your run-stopping problem with him. Maybe you did that with, you know, the players that you signed during free-eastern. agency, whether it's wise or Kinlaw or Goldman. And then, like, Pierce for me is off because of the work ethic and the character stuff, but he is a damn good player.

But I think you're going to see him fall. Somebody might take him and just think that he's, you know, not going to be an issue. And then there are just a few more players. This guy, Nick Scorgeton from Texas A&M, I'd be concerned about him in the first round. I'd be surprised, actually, if he goes in the first round. He's had some weight issues. He is a try-hard, relentless motor player. I think he'll be a good player,

but I could also see him being a player that ends up getting stuck a lot against NFL tackles. The guys that I like that are more in the second round area that maybe Washington would reach for at the end of the first round, I mentioned one of them yesterday. One of my favorite players in the draft is J.T. Tuwey Molo from Ohio State. just has dominated games, and he's a run-stopper as much as he is a pass rusher. I'm not sure why he's not projected first round, personally.

But if they traded back and ended up getting an early second, you know, I think about taking him there. Landon Jackson from Arkansas is this big 6-6-270 dude that's athletic. Love him as well. I think he and Tui Moloow are the two best run stoppers after Carter and Green probably. And then Femi Ola Dejo from UCLA is really interesting. He's only played the position for a year, but it wouldn't surprise me if they like him a lot. I think Kimes said that to me yesterday as well. Just everything about the kid speaks to.

the kind of player they want. He's very smart. He changed positions. It didn't take him long to really blossom. You know, if you look at some of the later stuff during the year at UCLA, he's really difficult to block. And, you know, he's one of these guys that, you know, has that body type, 6-3-255, something like that, that, you know, with his speed, that would be a good pass rusher. and he got better against the run. Let me just see anybody else that I had on my list to mention. Kyle Kinnard from South Carolina would be interesting, but I think he is more of a day three pick or maybe a late night two pick.

But those are the guys. If they take the guy that's been mocked to them by a lot of mocks, Donovan Azaruko from Boston College, just know he is a pass rusher to start his career. He's not a three-down player, I don't think. Mike L. Williams from Georgia, I'd be surprised if he's there, but you'd be thrilled to get this kind of player. And I would be surprised if he's not way high on their list as far as edge rushers go. And then again, I'd pass on Pierce. I think they will.

And I don't think Green makes it to him. If he does, that means the character concerns with him. They found out something that they didn't like. Shemar Stewart, if he were to drop, the production always, like, you know, Kuiper would always say this. production over, you know, sort of testing. And, you know, Doc would also say, like, I don't care what they look like in their underwear in Indianapolis. What did they do when they were on the field in a football uniform?

And this guy got pressures, but he didn't have more than one and a half sacks in any of his three seasons in College Station. That's just got to be something that you're somewhat concerned about. The guy ran like 4-5-40. He's athletic. He's 6-5. He's 260. Like, he's a physical freak.

But he doesn't sack the quarterback. He just didn't finish. Didn't we used to say that about Montez Sweat all the time? And Montes Sweat was a good player. Don't get me wrong. And he had a lot of pressures. But it's like super athletic. Sweat, you know, tested off the charts coming out of Mississippi State.

athletically, and yet he just never seemed to be able to get home. And if this guy's not getting home in college, I know it's the SEC, but what makes you think he's going to be a double-digit sack guy at the NFL level? So I like as a Ruko, as a pass rusher. I really, really like Michael Williams overall. My favorite player that if he fell, like I don't think they'd take him because he would be character concerns, but Mike Green from Marshall just looks like an NFL pass rushing, havoc-reaking star. And so, you know, if the character concerns had him drop,

I just don't think Washington. Our group isn't going to do that. The last group would have done it. This group just won't do it. And that's fine. That's fine. So there you go. How about that as a little draft homework and report for you? that's very impressive, but this is the kind of geek shit that you get off on. So I certainly understand that. Look, I have a question for you. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

You know, I mean, I am a lone voice out there who says, I'd rather draft need than best player on the board. Okay. It seems kind of foolish in a way to look at, to know that you need a position, but I'm not going to draft that guy because he's not as good as other people think he should be. My question is, there's so many, it seems like there's so many options at edge rusher now

that I don't think they could go wrong, that there's got to be somebody in the neighborhood of their board at number 29 who's an edge rusher. Am I right? Yeah, and I think you can say that about a lot of positions. I think the... I think running back the same way. I mean, if I would go edge of...

rush or running back in terms of preference. But I think there's plenty of both from what I gather that there's got to be somebody within grabbing distance of where you're drafting that you feel comfortable with. Yeah, I think that's right. And I think that this is one of those drafts where it's it's not a great draft overall. And by the way, I'm not geeky when it gets to the draft. In fact, this is the geekiest I've ever gotten when it comes to the draft. The big picture on this, just so everybody understands, is Washington has five picks, and more likely than not based on where they're picking, none of these players are going to be total massive difference makers next year.

If you get one out of the five or six that they take, that's great. The team that you're looking at now, if you're looking at a depth chart of the team, after they added, you know, kept a lot of their own free agents and added tonsil and debo, and the players on defense, Kinlaught, et cetera, that's the team you're probably going to have because I don't think they're going to trade for Trey Hendrickson. That would be the massive move. But like putting the draft in perspective

when you're picking as few players as you're picking and picking as late as you're picking, the chances that you're going to end up with multiple impact players next year out of this draft that make a difference in your season is a long shot. and yet look at all the emphasis that everybody puts on it. Now, last year was different because it was a quarterback, and the quarterback could make a massive difference.

We didn't think it would happen so quickly, but I actually find the whole show of the draft interesting. And, you know, you know me, a lot of these players I watch because I love college football as much as I love the NFL, and some of my preferences come from seeing some of these players in big games. But like the guy from Marshall, I had never seen him play. Never. But you can tell.

Like you can tell the guy has all of those special traits. But to your question, every general manager that we care about, you know, starting with the greatest general manager in the history of this town, Bobby Bethard, said, and they say, the biggest mistakes you make are when you, draft for need. And even Adam Peters said that recently. But I know they all do. But I know it's, it's a common knowledge. Yeah. But there's always a player of need, especially at 29, that is close enough more likely than not to the best player available on the board. Like, if the quarterback was the best player available on your board, you're certainly not going to take him at 29.

But I'll tell you what, Tommy, the more I think about it, I think they have a lot of focus on the trenches. And so don't be surprised if there is an offensive lineman taken at 29, a defensive lineman taken in the second round, you know, a tradeback with an O lineman and a D-Linman. And the running backs, I wouldn't take a running back in the first round in this draft unless it was gente and it won't be, he'll be long gone. I agree with that. I would go the second round. Yeah, I mean, if it... I would go the second round.

And the thing about running backs, you can get somebody in the third or fourth round, or where do they pick after the second round? Fourth. They don't have a third rounder. Fourth. You can find somebody still running back in the fourth round. Who can help you?

Yeah. I think. There are, there are ten guys after Gentie, 10 or 11 guys, and I said this yesterday, You could put them in a hat and pull any one of the 10, and they have equal chances of being significant, you know, really good players at the next level. So it's just going to be a matter of picking the right one,

and you could get that guy in round three or round two or round four, you know, but I think there will be at some point a run on running backs. Because I think after Gentie, there's like 10 or 11 of them that are probably going to start coming. off the board in round two. I mean, I think there's a chance Hampton will get picked in the first round, only because the mocks sort of indicate that, but I wouldn't take Hampton in the first round if, you know, if I had a first round. The value is just not there on running backs because of, you know, what they get paid on average and then having to pay them more because they went

in the first round doesn't make any sense if you don't think there's much of a difference between that guy and the guy you could get the next night or on Saturday. I don't think they'll take a wide receiver either at 29. Now, Igbuka's really good. I already crossed Luther Burden off the list, not because I don't like him because I love him as a player, but because there's a lot of character, work ethic, hustle kind of stuff that just, to me, reeks of Jahan Dotson.

So I think they'll pass on him. But, yeah, it's going to be, you know, be an interesting night. It's going to be a late night. It's not going to be over quickly for Washington. They're going to have to wait. And maybe by the time we get to their pick, they end up trading back and we don't see anything on Thursday night. Yeah.

But it is more, I'll tell you one of the other things, Tommy. It's more fun to have these conversations knowing that the players that get added are being added by competent people that are probably, are more likely than not making better decisions than the people that have been here at any time over the last 20-some years. And those players will be joining a team that has a really good chance of contending next year, the year after, and the year after that. So you don't have to worry about quarterback. You didn't have that feeling last year. Remember last off season? We didn't know any of this. No. I mean, I love Jaden Daniels, but I didn't think he would do what he did his rookie year.

No. So this is a brand new feeling for the fan base. They might have felt good about Adam Peters and Dan Quinn going into the draft, but they really didn't know. Now you have a working knowledge that gives you some sort of substance to your good feelings. You know, I had an extra good feeling the other day when I was just looking at the odds. You know, we've talked about there's still going to be, you know, Philly, Detroit, in San Francisco, are actually favored above Washington in the NFC. And then Washington comes in forth.

But the NFC East Odds, I was looking at this the other day at MyBooky, myBooky.ag, promo code Kevin D.C. if you want to bet some draft prop bets and NFL futures. But Philly's the favorite at minus 144 to win the NFC East. And Washington now is at less than plus 200. They're plus 197. So there is, there's growing belief in Washington in 2025. And I don't know if that has to do with Philadelphia.

Philadelphia is going to be a different team. They've lost some players, you know, and they'll add a bunch of players. They just signed their center. Detroit. And I know Detroit, they performed well, even though they had injuries last year. But they lost Ben Johnson. Yeah. And Aaron Glenn.

How the Lions do, yeah. Yeah. They lost some valuable staff people. Indeed, Philly lost their offensive coordinator to New Orleans, Kellan Moore. All right, a few more things to finish up the show right after these words from a few. of our sponsors. So guys, I've talked about a product recently. It's called pre-alcohol. It's made by Zbiotics. It's a surefire way to wake up feeling fresh after a night of drinks with friends. And it works. I was at a wedding recently. Denton's wedding, my producer on radio, got married

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Zbiotics is backed with a 100% money-back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to Zbiotics.com slash Sheen and use my code, Sheean, S-H-E-E-H-A-N at checkout for 15% off. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, Shelly's backroom has become Katz headquarters during the playoffs at 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district. It's filled with people with Cap Terties before the game and after the game. It was a celebration of sorts. after the game Monday night.

And that is, if you want to be with other cast fans to talk about the game before it happens, have a great dinner from their first-class menu and have a victory cigar after the game, you can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. I wanted to alert people to the fact that I've mentioned this before, but I want to say it again, Monday, May 19th at Shelley's back room starting at 6 o'clock is the DC-Graised Cigars and Curveballs fundraiser. Okay. Tickets are not on sale yet.

We're doing some website transformation, so we expect the tickets on sale on the website by the beginning of May. But set that date aside in your calendar. It's a Monday night, May 19th. and for commanders fans, okay, this is very important. We have an auction of items, you know, services. We auction off tickets to the Nats game at the whatever the President's Club is called now behind home plate. We auction off a visit to the, see the Kevin Sheen Show podcast in person. other memorabilia.

We have a special item this year. An authenticated sign jersey from Sean Taylor. What? We'll be up, yes. Wow. You'll be up for auction this year. So if you're collectors out there, if you're interested in this, this is a great chance for you to have a very rare item,

but you've got to come to the auction and bid on it to get it. We've got the authentication letter, the whole nine yards. Okay. And we have other items as well. Keep your eyes open for May 19th at Shelley's backroom. So let me just help Tommy a little bit with that. Washington Redskins fans that were Big Sean Taylor fans, an authenticated, signed Sean Taylor jersey will be auctioned off at Tommy's auction.

May 19th at Shelley's. I'll be there. Doc will be there. You'd be surprised at the people that show up. I mean, I'm talking about real people, famous people like Doc and will Mike Rizzo be there this year? He usually is.

I hope to be. Yeah. It's an off night for the next. Okay. That is, that may be the, that may be. Oh, it's the biggest thing we've ever auctioned off. Yeah. All right.

You know, if you're at the Nats game tonight, they're playing the Orioles, and you can go right to Shelly's after the game. The reason I brought that up is because of Shelly's A, B, did you see that the Orioles lost the other day to the Reds 24 to 2? That was the final score. What's wrong with the Orioles this year? I thought they were supposed to be really good. I thought they were supposed to be good, too. They don't have starting pitching. That's for sure.

They've got terrible starting pitching. Again, we've had this argument before, not argument, but debate, discussion before. And I'm still perplexed by it. You know, with all due respect to David Rubenstein, the new owner of the Orioles, he's 78 years old. What are you waiting for? You know? I mean, why wouldn't you go all in knowing how close you are to not being the owner of the Baltimore Orioles at some point soon? and go in and spend some money and go for the championship.

I don't get these people. I guess that's how they made it to 78 and rich. Being patient? I guess so. But if that was me, I'd have been all in. I'd have Steve Cohen, the Orioles this year. You know, I'd open up a window, lined up players up around the block, and say, come get your cash.

All right. I want to finish up the show with this. Actually, two things. Number one is, last night, first of all, the Knicks Pistons game was great. So last night was really the first good night in the NBA playoffs. We had two phenomenal games, but I'll just focus on the second game, because you know how much I've always been a huge Kauai Leonard fan. I think Kauai Leonard, if he had had a healthy career, he's 33 years old. He'd be in the conversation for the top 10, worst case top 15 players of all time. And last night was one of the most incredible shooting slash scoring performances in NBA playoff history. He scored 39 points in 39 minutes going 15 of 19 from the floor, four of seven behind the three point line, five for five on the free throw line. His game last night was only the fifth NBA playoff game ever of 39 or more points

with at least 78% shooting. 30 plus point games with 75% shooting. There are only three players in the history of the game that have done it four times. Karim, Shaq, and Kauai Leonard. There's something about his game. Like, I have a couple of friends of my friends. and say, why is he one of your favorite players? I'm like, I don't know. But I thought about it. I could tell you why he should be. Why?

Because you were in on the ground floor of that guy. But that's not why. You were the one. Yeah. But you should. I'm trying to give you kudos saying, you know, there weren't people knocking down the door to draft him. He wound up going 12th in the first round,

and you were all over to wizards to draft him. And you were spot on. I did want the wizards to draft him instead of Yon Vescelain. That is true. And he went 15 in the first round. The only reason I knew him, I'll never forget, is for whatever reason, San Diego State was a covering machine that year. And I had him late night on, like, CBS Sports Network, if it was even around back then or whatever it was on. What I love about him is this.

First of all, he may be the most understated, you know, shy, reserved superstar in a NBA history. Secondly, there's something about watching him where he just goes at his own speed, like they're never going to rush him. He's never going to be hurried. He just is a methodical assassin and always has been when he's healthy as an offensive player. The physical attributes are obvious. I mean, his arms are forever long. He's got the biggest hands. You know, he and Dr. J probably have the biggest hands in the history of the league, you know, hence the claw. He's, you know, he's not as great a defender as he once was at 33 years old, but he's still an unbelievably effective defender. And by the way, embraces guarding and guarding the other team's best player.

But last night was a perfect example of it. Because to be honest with you, the Clippers are one of these ISO teams. It drives me nuts, especially with Hardin having the ball. But even Kauai, lots of ISO, but it's like there's this pace he goes at Tommy where he is very athletic, but it's because more of his physical attributes. And like his mid-range game is all-time great. And he gets to his spots, you know, and it's like it's money. Last night he was not. He was not. of 10 in the first half. He was 15 of 19 and the four shots he missed. Three of them were halfway down and came out. And the fourth one was just a little bit long off the back iron. He was unstoppable at 33 years old. And we talked about Barclay earlier. Barkley said at half time,

he said, in my 40 years of being around NBA basketball, I've never, ever seen a player. miss so much time and never, ever when he comes back, looks like he's been out and looks like he has rust. He goes, his talent is unmistakable, but how he comes back and never looks like he missed any time is amazing. And he's one of the best playoff performers of his era. I mean, his playoff record when he's been healthy has been just super clutch. and they won the game, and it's going to be a hell of a series. I mean, Yokic against Kauai, you know, good supporting cast, certainly for the Clippers, but just an enjoyable kind of throwback performance last night

to watch a guy. He did make four for seven from behind the arc, but 11 shots were all mid-range or dunking. And it's just to watch him go to work is so interesting. Like DeMar de Rosen is kind of that way. There are a couple of players like that. I'm trying to think of a player from way back in the day that was methodical. Bobby Dandrich was kind of like that, you know, for the bullets.

Just always kind of working his way at his own speed to get to a spot. And once he got there, it was like money. Now, Kauai, by the way, you can't guard him with a guard. You can't guard him with a big. That's what makes him so great. is he's virtually unguardable unless you double-team him, even though he's not doing it with explosiveness. So anyway, he was great, the performance of the playoffs so far.

Tonight it's going to be interesting to see if LeBron and Luca can keep the Lakers in this series because they could go down two nothing with two losses at home. I just wanted to say that, but fun to watch it last night. The last thing, and I talk to you about this, so Nico Harrison, who's the general manager of the Dallas Ambricks, he's the one responsible, I guess, unless you want to blame it on ownership, which I think was okay,

that traded, you know, Luca Donchich for Anthony Davis, a trade that has really upset a fan base, like I can't remember a trade upsetting a fan base. Yesterday, for some reason, again, he was doing some media, and he said, quote, I did know that Luca was important to the fan base.

I didn't know quite, I didn't quite know to what level, closed quote. It's not surprising. I've seen front office executives that are that clue with who don't think it's important. You know, now there's a saying, Frankie Lane, the old general manager coach out in Utah. used to say, once you start paying attention to the fans, you wind up sitting with the fans. But you've got to, in this day and age in particular, there's no excuse for not having a handle on the sensibilities of your fan base.

No excuse for that. Unless you work in a fortress and think you have the answers for everything. And there's nobody you have to rely on for feedback. There's nobody you have to talk to for your decision making. It's part of me doesn't, the owners are to blame from my standpoint. This is one of those where you have to clear that kind of a trade with the owner, clearly. You're not making that trade. And the owner has to say, wait a minute.

He's the most popular player in franchise history, maybe after Dirk. Okay. Novitsky is probably the most, you know, beloved player, I guess, in Mavericks history. But Luca has grown up in front of this fan base. Our fan base loves him. We're sort of a public trust, even though that term is sort of overvalued. But anyway, because these teams are privately owned, they can do whatever the fuck they want for the most part.

But you've got to have a business mind in this. Like the idea that this, first of all, the trade was a bad trade just on the compensation that they got back. They should have gotten a lot more back for Luca than they got. So it was a bad trade. But not knowing what your fan base's attachment is to a player and what their reaction is going to be, which is going to be horrendous for the business, the short-term business anyway, like I think there's an argument that you can make that in this particular case, never winning a title but having Luca play the rest of his career there and have a contending team

might have been better than maybe winning one with Anthony Davis in two or three years. That's a tough road to balance on. I'll grant you that. Yeah. But one you had, one was within your grasp. One was your existence. And you traded it for the possibility of another existence. You had Luca. He was the most popular player. The fans loved him. If you did nothing else, that was your, that was the existence of Maverick fans.

And you turned it upside down for a chance to be something else. And you were in the finals last year. And even if you have concerns, like he doesn't stay in shape, he doesn't guard, he, you know, he drinks a lot or he parties a lot, whatever it is, it doesn't matter, he's beloved. And even if the trade, Anthony Davis, he's barely available. He's a great player. By the way, somebody said to me the other day, why haven't you ripped into Cuban for this when you've talked about it? Cuban doesn't own the Mavericks anymore. No, this is the Miriam Aedelson.

Yes. The wife of the Vegas, the late Vegas casino owner who bought the franchise. That's right. Yes. I think Cuban has a percentage of ownership, but. And maybe he should have spoken up, too. I don't know. But anyway.

Corey, I don't think he has any say. Here's the advice to Nico Harrison. Stop talking. Just what are you doing? Just let it go. To say what you said yesterday, because everybody tells you, Nico Harrison is one of the great guys in the NBA.

And he was being lauded this time last year as Dallas was making a run because of the trades they made. But, yeah, you got to know that, your player is revered at the level that he was revered at. And if you don't know that, and this has happened, you don't admit to it. All right, anything else? I got one piece of information for you, boss. Okay.

I won another writing award. Okay. What writing award did you win? I won with Virginia Press Association. I won a third place for sports columns. Who finished in front of you? I have no idea. Could we have voted on this?

Could we have influenced them? It's not a... I don't... I don't want third place finish discussion is for losers. I like your first place plaques and trophies. I can't even believe you brought this to the show. How many 71-year-olds are out there winning awards for writing sports columns, buddy? Congratulations.

Thank you. Well done. We'll celebrate when you... your first place next year. All right. I'll talk to you on Thursday. You have to come prepared with like some draft predictions.

Okay, boss. See you. I'll be back tomorrow. Doc's going to be on the show. Al Galdi will be on the show as well.