The Kevin Sheehan Show - Oweh Leads Day 1 + Vinny Cerrato

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

Kevin with all NFL Free Agency today starting with what Washington did in adding Odafe Oweh, Tim Settle Jr, Amik Robertson, and re-signing Marcus Mariota. Kevin reacted to all of that and the contract extension for Laremy Tunsil. Ben Standig jumped on with his thoughts on the day. Former Skins' GM Vinny Cerrato joined Kevin to talk free agency pasts and present. He also talked about his friend Lou Holtz.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. So here's the deal, everybody, on today's show. It is currently 5.15 p.m. Eastern Standard time. 5.15 p.m. I'm recording this.

Wait a minute. Hold on. It's not Eastern Standard time. It's now Eastern Daylight Time. What am I talking about? It's 5.15 p.m. Eastern Daylight. time. We gained an hour, unfortunately, this past weekend, although I say unfortunately because we lost an hour of sleep, I love that it's lighter much later now. It's a lot less depressing. Man, winter got long there for a while. 515 Eastern. I'm recording this opening segment. I will have a guest next segment recorded after this opening segment, and then the final segment of the show today will be

Vinnie Serrato, former Skins GM, Vinny will talk about free agency. Now, some of what has happened here in just the last hour and a half, Vinny isn't able to weigh in on. But interestingly enough, a player that Washington just signed, Vinny did have an opinion on. Not to mention, I'm telling you, the 25 minutes with Vinny, regardless of when it was recorded, is totally worth it. He does go back in time and talk about some of the free agents.

periods he managed or tried to manage here in Washington. All right. The show's presenting sponsor is always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation or Window Nation.com, if you need new windows. Here in this opening segment, I'm going to focus on what Washington's done so far. I will finish up with some of the big items from around the league today as well.

But let's go through it chronologically as it. as it's happened because it was slow going, but here over the last hour, hour and a half, two hours, it's gotten pretty busy with Washington. The first piece of news today, and we'll go chronologically, was that Laramie Tunsell got his contract extension. We were certainly expecting it, and I certainly thought it would be sooner rather than later.

I did not expect this to, you know, stretch into the late spring or early summer. but Tunsell's getting a reported two-year contract extension worth $60.2 million, $61.5 million guaranteed, and a signing bonus of $32.1 million. Now, I've seen it written, you know, and I've seen some of you weigh in, that this is, you know, a deal that makes him the first $30 million a year. lineman in NFL history. That is true in terms of the extension average. But remember, he had a year left on the deal that he brought to Washington when he was acquired. The extension is actually for 2027 and 28. He's playing 26 on his last contract, which Washington will pay him roughly

$21 million on. So if you have average the 21 million this year, and then the average of 30 million, just over 30 million per year for the next two, you're talking about, you know, an average annual for the three years that Washington has him under contract of just over $27 million per year. But yes, the two extension years are 30 million AAV, but its current AAV for the last three years, of his contract is more like $27 million per year just over that, putting him, you know, in the top five of left tackles in the game for average annual value. I'm quibbling a little bit, but when you see people say, first $30 million average per year, it really isn't because he had this other year left

on his deal. That's an extension of this current deal. So if you take the current deal and blend it with the extension part of the deal, it's more like $27 million. Look, this had to be done. It was done quickly. I'm personally not a big believer that this deal was done so much faster than the Terry deal because somehow Adam Peters learned so much from the Terry situation. I'm not a believer in that. I think the truth is the Tunsell situation is just completely different than the Terry

McCorn situation. They traded a lot for Tunsell last year. So there's no way you were going to let him walk into free agency after two seasons when you traded all those picks for him. Secondly, let's be fair here. Laramie Tunsell is a much better player at a much more important position. Next, Terry and his agent just were as much of the reason, if not the majority of the reason,

why the negotiation took so long. Tunsell was a must extend player. Terry was more like a would like to extend player, but don't have to extend player. I think the situations are just completely different, and I think the motivation of Washington getting something done with Tunsell was even greater than their motivation

of getting something done with Terry McLorn. especially given the fact that they traded for him. And again, big-time player at a big-time position. Look, I like the deal. I like the player, of course. I mean, when you have a top-tier pass-protecting left tackle who is helping protect the franchise a quarterback, and Laramie Tunsell is that.

He is one of the top-tier pass-protecting left tackles in the game. When you have that player, you do what it takes to keep them. I think the deal is fair for both parties. If anything, I would have preferred the team had gotten another year on the deal. You know, so he was under contract for the next four seasons, not the next three seasons. But look, if he is really good at 33, 34, 35 years old, you'll have other chances to extend him. I think this deal was fine. It was a must.

I'm glad it's done. I am certainly glad, and I didn't anticipate anyway, but I'm certainly glad that it's not going to extend, you know, into the latter portion of the spring or when we get to, you know, days that are mandatory, you know, mini camps, OTAs, et cetera, and certainly long before training camp. So Tunsell was the first piece of news today. And that's a big piece of news. But it's the first day of free agency or the negotiating period. Look, the league calendar and free agency technically opens Wednesday at 4 p.m. Yeah, today's the first day of free agency for all. intents and purposes. And the next piece of news for our team was that they added, and this was

the first player that was, you know, at least announced or reported on that they had come to an agreement with, and that is a small slot corner. He's more than just a slot corner from Detroit, Amic Robertson, 5-9-184 pounds. By the way, in the playoff game against the Lions following 2024, the 45 to 31 playoff win for Washington. Amick Robertson actually broke his arm in the first quarter of that game. Look, he's been just okay and actually wasn't very good at all last year on a pretty bad lion's defense. He's small, and that makes their cornerback room with Mikey Sanry still pretty damn small right

now. He did last year play roughly 34% of his snaps in the slot. I would imagine he has played on the outside. That means 66% of his snaps were on the outside. So he's got versatility. So does Sandra still. I don't think Trey Amos has that versatility. But having another corner with versatility,

I would think that Amic Robertson, they're projecting to be more of a slot corner. but look, his best ability appears to be his availability. 17 regular season games for four years in a row. The last two in Detroit, the two before that in Vegas. He was drafted in the fourth round of the 2020 draft out of Louisiana Tech. So that's, and drafted by the Raiders. Look, the advanced evaluations, the advanced numbers from the likes of pro football focus, as an example, are not flattering to Amic Robertson, especially his 2025 season where I'm not making this up.

He ranked 107th out of 115 corners per PFF. That's a real number. I think it's, you know, on defense specifically, I think it's going to be really different. for us to be certain about anything because we're not certain about the new defensive coordinator or the new defensive scheme. And the way they see some of these players fitting in may be completely different than what the player was asked to do in his previous spot. Robertson gets two years, 16 million, 9.3 million guaranteed. They're going to need more help at that position. So I don't think they're done there. That's for sure. With now, by the way, just three corners under contract.

Mikey Sanrstil, Trey Amos, and now Amos, and now Amic Robertson are the three corners under contract. All right. Next up, the biggest free agent signing of the Adam Peters era so far here in Washington. they give Adofi Owe, the edge defender, edge pass rusher for the Los Angeles Chargers, a four-year, $100 million deal with $68 million guaranteed. And I know a lot of you are like $100 million for who? Because I did see that reaction from many of you, including some of my friends. But if you haven't been paying attention to the buildup to free agency, which for all intents and purposes started today.

Adofi Owe has been pretty much in that top three, four, edge defender group going into free agency. And among the top 15 to 20 free agents overall, all positions included, I'm sure you know the name Trey Hendrickson. He's been at the top of the list for pass rushers. He is yet to be signed as of the recording of this podcast. You probably know Jalen Phillips, who arrived. in Philadelphia after the trade deadline from Miami played very well. He signed a four-year $120 million deal with the Carolina Panthers. So he's getting $30 million a year.

Reports are that Washington was in on Jalen Phillips, that they were interested in Jalen Phillips. 30 million a year for him, 80 million guaranteed. The O-A deal followed that deal. Now, I'll get to the player here. a moment. But on the contract, I texted Mike Genetti from SpotTrack. Mike's been on the show many times. Mike's the founder and the operator of SpotTrack, the site that tracks all contracts throughout, you know, every sport, salary cap situations, et cetera. And I said, just give me a line

or two on the O-A contract. And he said, right on the going rate, maybe a touch more guaranteed than I anticipated, but that's the free agency premium for that position. $25 million a year for a player of his caliber at 27 years old, that position is actually the right number or right around the right number. It's not outrageous. It's like in terms of average annual, it's like somewhere around 13th, 14th in the league. I mean, Montez Sweat three years ago, all right, got a four-year, $98 million deal, $100 million, you know, rounded up. and got 72.8 guaranteed. Montes Sweat and, oh, wait, I wouldn't say exactly the same player in the same moment,

but they're somewhat comparable. I don't think that this should be the complaint, the size of the deal. I just don't. That is the going rate. I mean, we've seen now just over this past weekend with the trade for Max Crosby, two first rounders the Ravens gave up. You know, that followed last September's massive deal for Micah Parsons. One of the things that's really clear about this league, they can talk about corner all they want,

they can talk about interior pass rush pressure, they can talk about wide receiver. After quarterback, it is pass rusher, edge pass rusher. That's the position that gets the most money. That's the position that typically draws the most in compensation for a player. Now, maybe you'd say I would have rather given the Raiders my first round pick this year and my first round pick next year for Max Crosby. Not me, not, you know, coming off his injuries. That would have been too much.

I think the Ravens gave up too much. But they are desperate to win right now. Vinnie will weigh in on that when we get to Vinny Serrato at the end of the show. I personally don't have much issue with Adofi Owe getting a cross. contract at $25 million a year, a position that pays, you know, Micah Parsons, $46 million a year. This, again, is like 13th or 14th, if you look at SpotTrack in average annual. Now, the player himself, I like the player. I like the player's athleticism.

I talked about this player as a player that I'd like to see them sign in free agency. Now, there are some questions about Oway. The questions are not his athleticism, his quickness, his motor. You know, he's 6.5, 250. He ran basically like a 4-4. He is a relentless chaser. And he, you know, hasn't always gotten the results. Now, a few years ago in Baltimore, in 2024, 10 sacks, breakout year for him,

but they were very disappointed through the first five games of this year. He didn't have a sack. So there he goes to the chart. and in 12 games, seven and a half sacks for the Chargers. Now, was it that Mike McDonald wasn't there anymore in Baltimore this year? Jesse Minter, excellent coordinator. Maybe he knew how to get the most out of O-Way. Maybe it's a coaching thing.

But the player is talented athletically. He's long, and he can rush the past. Here are a couple of things that I wanted to read to you. This was from the Bill Barnwell breakdown of the edge rushers prior to free agency beginning. Oway kick started a disappointing contract year with a mid-season move to the Chargers as all of his seven and a half sacks came after he was traded from the Ravens. Ironically enough, a move back to Baltimore would make sense, as the Ravens need an impact player on the edge and the coach who helped turn things around

for O-Way in Los Angeles was defensive coordinator Jesse Minter, who's now the head coach in Baltimore. Of course, the Ravens made the move for Max Crosby over the weekend. O'A has never really put together a Pro Bowl caliber season, but he is very good at avoiding chip help to get after quarterbacks. Of those previously mentioned pass rushers, with a thousand attempts over the past three years, O'A ranks fifth in quarterback pressure probability over-expected. a metric that uses the NFL NextGen Stats model to estimate how likely a pass rusher is to create a pressure on a given snap. There could be some untapped upside here. Micah Parsons was asked a question.

I saw our guy Mitch Tishler actually tweet this out. I don't know. Mitch is great. I don't know how he found this. but Parsons at some point was asked about the players he respects. Where's the question? Who's the most underrated pass rusher in the league, in your opinion? Someone with great technique but hasn't had the total numbers yet.

And Parsons' answer, he gave three of them. Alex Highsmith, Jared Verse, or Adafay-O-A. I mean, when your own contemporary, great players are saying that, that's encouraging. Now, O-Way is a Penn State guy and so was Parsons. So that could be a part of it. O'A was drafted in the first round of Penn State by Baltimore in 2021, the number 31-31-pick overall.

Washington desperately needs defense. They added a corner. They were interested in Jalen Phillips, perhaps. Boy, Amafay gets 60 million, three years, 20 million a year. Is he the same players, Owey, who knows? I did learn, you know, I saw the reporting, but I also

was told Jalen Phillips definitely was somebody they were interested in. I did not hear though that they were interested in Maffa. I think that O'way what he did in the playoff game against New England, three sacks and two forced fumbles against Drake May and that Patriots

offense in that dreadful 16 to three wild card round weekend game. Remember that game were the Patriots defense and the Chargers defense, two dominant defenses going head to head. And Justin Herbert, just, you know, with that offensive line, could not get enough done. And Drake May got just enough done. But Oway was outstanding in that football game. And, you know, it's kind of reminiscent of the postseason, you know, it was a longer postseason run, for sure for Dorrance Armstrong at the end of 2024,

but Armstrong was so good in those playoffs, and he started off so good this season before getting hurt. But I like the player. I do like the player. And at the same time, you know, I don't consider him to be a game-wrecking, fear-inducing, edge pass rusher. He's not Miles Garrett.

He's not T.J. Watt. He's not Micah Parsons. you know, he's not one of these guys. He's not keeping the offensive coordinator up late at night. He is a three-down player. He's excellent against the run. So that's, I'm sure, part of their thinking as well. But let me not take him off the hook.

For $100 million, $68 guaranteed over four years, he's got to be a double-digit sack guy, you know, every year. And he certainly was on pace for double-digit sacks had he played all 17 games in. LA with the Chargers and that would have been back to back, you know, double-digit sack seasons. So he's got to produce that. But, you know, I don't think they're done at that position. There's a possibility they could add, you know, a specialty pass rusher. Kalil Mack, I don't think's been signed yet as of now. Joey Bosa hasn't been signed yet as of now. These are

some of the other possibilities. I don't think they're done yet. They've got the money to spend. the addition of a pass rusher and free agency, in theory, should give them flexibility to take the best player available in the draft, but that best player available in the draft could be Ruben Bain. And your starters could be Bain and Oway with Armstrong and Wise is part of the rotation, you know, and you've got, you know, the base 3, 4 and how it'll line up who are going to be the edge guys in two-point stances versus the defensive ends in a 3-4 in a three-point stance.

You don't know what it's going to look like with Durante Jones in his defense. But always a good player. He's a good all-around player. He's very athletic and maybe at 27 years old, he's on the verge of becoming special. We'll see. And then this happened just a little while ago. Washington has reached an agreement with Tim Suss.

Settle Jr. Yes, that Tim Settle Jr. The one they drafted all the way back in 2018 out of Virginia Tech in the fifth round. He was here for four years, went to Buffalo for two years, and the last two years is played in Houston. I'll tell you, the first thing I thought of when I just saw this, not that long ago, was, well, there's the nose tackle in their three, four base. Six three, three hundred and twenty five pounds, something like that. Tim Settles played a lot of positions along the defensive front, all of them in the interior. And he's been a good, solid player on some good teams in Houston the last two years for sure defensively.

So, you know, a day that started with a tonsil extension now includes three defensive players. Defense, defense, defense was the motto of this offseason, even though I actually thought this morning before my radio show. I said it early in my radio show, I thought the activity here on day one would be more on the offensive side of the ball. Wrong about that. However, it has been reported that Washington was very much in the mix for Alec Pierce. Washington was also in the mix for Tyler Linderbaum.

So perhaps they intended for the day to start very offensive. But as of the recording of this opening segment of the show, three defensive signatures. Amique Robertson, O'Way, and Settle Jr. And I'm sure there will be more to come. Add to that resigning, and I think very important to do so, Marcus Marietta. So a busy day so far.

There's a lot of day left. Tomorrow will be busy. They've got the second fewest roster spots filled going into free agency of anybody in the league, second only to Baltimore. actually. So we know they've got a lot of players to sign, and we know that they've got a lot of money to do it with. But defensively here, two D-Linman and a corner. What about linebacker? What about maybe somebody else along that defensive front? And probably another corner at some point. I still think Jonathan Jones among their own players is a possibility. Now, as of the recording of this podcast,

You know, nothing on Chris Paul, nothing on Bobby Wagner, nothing on Debo. I thought maybe we might get something on Chris Paul today, but Wagner and Debo certainly Ertz seemed like, you know, later in free agency, second, you know, wave, third wave of free agency. Now, as far as the rest of the league, man, there's so much here. You know, this weekend, the trade for Max Crosby, massive trade. the biggest trade of this off season, unless A.J. Brown gets dealt. The Cowboys then before Free Agency started dealt for Green Bay Pass Rusher, Roshan Gary. They missed out on Crosby. They

were very much in the hunt for Crosby. But the bottom line is the Ravens just offered more than the Cowboys did. But they got Roshan Gary for a fourth round pick. Then Free Agency started. Alec Pierce signed the biggest free agent deal for a wide receiver in NFL history, not the biggest deal. Other deals have been signed with players like Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson, etc. Or other players were signed after trades. But in terms of a free agent deal, now they waited until just after 12 o'clock so they could present this deal as the largest free agent deal ever for a wide receiver. He was property of the Indianapolis Colts prior to free agency. So they could have announced this deal yesterday or last week. But Pierce signs the big deal to

stay in Indianapolis. Washington apparently was involved in the Pierce negotiations. How about quarterback Malik Willis agreeing to terms in Miami? That's a $22 million per year deal, so he didn't get the Sam Darnel deal from last year. Some thought he might. Michael Pittman, the other receiver in Indianapolis, got traded to the Steelers. Mike Evans signs just a little while ago with San Francisco. Kenneth Walker, the third, was one of the first off the board.

He signs a big deal to go to Kansas City. Travis E.T.N. signs with New Orleans. Meantime, to a Tunga Viloa, it was announced would be released by Miami, and now it looks like he's going to sign with Atlanta. I thought he wouldn't be able to sign until Wednesday because they can't really release them until Wednesday, but whatever. Tunga Viloa going to Atlanta makes a lot of sense. another left-handed quarterback backing up Michael Penix Jr. for a Kevin Stefansky slash Kubiak slash Shanahan-style offense,

which he came from in Miami. We probably won't get anything on Kyler Murray until Wednesday. But, yeah, in terms of division teams, the Giants have been pretty busy. Let me pull up their list. the Giants so far, Isaiah likely from Baltimore, the tight end. I don't think Washington was in unlikely.

Let me just say that. I don't think they were. They also signed Tremaine Edmonds, who was turned loose by Buffalo. Three years, 36 million for him. Three years, 40 million for likely. And then Philly, you know, over the weekend,

they extended Jordan Davis to a massive deal, three years, 78 million, but nothing in free agency so far. And Dallas in free agency so far, they, you know, traded for Roshan Gary. They signed safety Jalen Thompson from Arizona. So that's all they've done so far. All right.

Let's get to my next segment, which I'm not exactly sure at this moment what it will be. Stay tuned. We'll get to it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, I introduced you recently to Thrive, Market, the convenience of getting items delivered, and then also being able to filter by dietary preference for the entire family, hard to beat. Thrive Market is a membership-based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are. You simply just hop on their app. The membership

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You do have to wager. But for those of you who are into betting and you want a 50% cash bonus right in time for March Madness, mybooky. A.ag my bookie.com promo code, DC reload. All right, this actually really happened. Ben Standing and I were just on the phone with each other, as we often are talking about a lot of things football team related and other things occasionally. And I just said to him, why am I not recording this right now?

Let's just record this and then I can include you on my podcast today. So Ben said, sure, even though he is very busy as someone who is a real reporter when it comes to our football team. I am an opiner. Ben is a reporter and an opiner. You do both. Occasionally I report, but that is your primary gig. And Ben, of course, writes and covers the team with his own substack called Last Man Standing. I would urge all of you to subscribe.

It's hardly anything. I mean, what is it right now a month, Ben? For a year, it's normally 80 bucks, but right now it's discounted down to about 64 for the year, which is a pretty, you know, I haven't done the map on that, but that's pretty simple, right? Yeah, I would say that's just barely over five bucks a month. It's totally worth it. I'm a subscriber. Ben's got a podcast, too, called Last Man Standing, and you can follow.

him on X and get links to everything at Ben Standing. So, all right, I just spent 20 minutes talking about or longer about what they did today. What are your thoughts? At least as of now, let me just also make this clear. We are recording this at 5.54 p.m. on Monday, March 9th. So other things may happen and probably will because it's really heated up for them. in recent moments, they just added Tim Settle as he returns to the place in which he was drafted as a very young player out of Virginia Tech. So give me your overall thoughts on the day so far.

Yeah, look, I think they've checked a lot of the boxes that we thought they would or they needed to. Edge Rusher clearly was a top one. I knew that they were looking to market. And even just as of this morning, the question I, you know, got from something. was, are they going to spend? Are they going to be aggressive? Well, clearly, ultimately, with O.A, they certainly were that. You know, you and I,

we were just discussing, you know, he got a much bigger contract than guys like, boy, mapping, quitty paid. And maybe that's the right move. But just like in general, that same age, you know, same same type, same general gist, but always been a bit more productive the last couple of years. And, you know, he had 10 sacks in 24. he had seven last year, but it was sort of an odd of seven

because he got traded after five games. It was actually right after the trade, right after Washington beat the Chargers. He got traded with the Chargers and then had a much better second half. So the betting on the upside there, he's a crazy athlete, you know, run. You know, he's a bit inconsistent with the pass rush, but, you know, they obviously like what they saw. And they had to do something. I'm not saying you just spend for the sake of spending.

but after not doing anything last year significantly at that position, they needed to do it, and that was a key move for sure. They had some cornerback depth in Amique Robertson, I think he's going to play slot, which would mean that Mikey Sanders still now plays outside rather than moving outside when desperation hits or injury strike. So, you know, we'll see about that, two small guys, but Robertson, from everything I can tell he's a feisty guy, so add the little toughness to the, to the of the defense there.

Tim Settle with somebody that I had mentioned in my free agency guide. I had heard with some interest in Washington. They need obviously defensive tackle as a strength in theory for this defense, but if you're going to play a three, four, you need somebody who can maybe be a bit

more of a nose tackle, and that really is not what the other three guys are like. Tim Settle can do that a little bit more. If nothing else, it just gives them another playmaker on the line than they needed more depth as you always do at the line. So I think, you know, three good things there, they still need depth,

they still need linebackers, but so far, you know, I get what they're doing there. And then, you know, the other, the only thing they've done really on offense so far, that's a big thing, another box check that kept Marcus Marriota. You know, we may have talked about this on the radio earlier, I don't remember, but, you know, when the season ended, I was like 90% he's not going to be bad, not because bad feelings. But Cliff.

He wants to play, and, you know, Cliff was at that point, you know, going to leave or without. So he wants to go play. And the market looks like it would be accommodating to him to at least have an opportunity. And then Tyler Murray, too, with Uncle Biola, Kirk Cousins, all landed in for agency. The Steelers hired a head coach, who is the only way that Aaron Rogers potentially is going to stay in Pittsburgh. And now all of a sudden, the starting jobs are kind of gone. And he's staring at backups. And if he's going to be a backup, might as well go back to where he felt comfortable the last two years.

So, you know, considering the injuries of Jayden, obviously they had to secure a strong backup. And, you know, everybody is still a lot better sleeping at night with Marriota here rather than, you know, the big on them. Yeah, I really think this was huge, you know, and they get him back for actually a million less than they paid him last year, I think. If the reports are right, it's $7 million a year. I mean, they're paying them less than Arizona's paying Gardner Minshu. So, yeah, there was that. And let's not forget the news that sort of kicked off the day for Washington, which was the extending of Laramie Tunsell.

They get that done, you know, well in advance of any mandatory activities that we would then have to spend a lot of time talking about why he's not there. The irony is Laramie Dunstle is probably going to miss a bunch of those practices anyway. Yeah, right. last year. But, you know, it is what it is. You take that when you sign a guy like that with what he does, his age, and, you know, nobody's to worry about him being ready when the lights turn on.

So, yeah, no, obviously, just getting that done, just getting it out of the way is huge. And, you know, it also helps them understand what their budget looks like, what their cap space is. I don't know if they've, how they've adjusted potentially his cap hit this year. It was $24 million. Maybe they've lowered it. We'll see. So, yeah. So that was good just to get that done, and then they can focus on their other things.

All right. What do you think they tried to do that they didn't get done? Well, the one thing I was told, which was a bit surprising to me, is that, you know, Alec Pierce, who was the top, not just receiver in this class, but, you know, probably like the top playmaker overall. he goes back to the cult for roughly 29 million a year, like four years up to 116 million, all told. And apparently Washington was in it to the last second. Like I was told they were all in that if not for the fact that he Pierce kind of just wanted to stay with the cult, he's got a tight bond with Daniel Jones.

Apparently his brother is going to Purdue next year, which is obviously near Indianapolis. So, you know, he had reasons to stay that were beyond just the football. Obviously playing with Jayton Daniels, he would think would be an upgrade over Daniel Jones. But, hey, you know, they had success last year. You know, they were really good last year. Really good. Things fell apart. But, you know, over the last few weeks.

Yeah, yeah. So they were in it all in on that, which is, again, interesting. I haven't heard this, but according to some reports, they were in it on Tyler Lyndonbaum. And the Raiders ultimately went. nuts on the terms there, way above the previous high for a center. So, you know, they weren't going to be ultimately in play for that. But that's, you know, two guys on offense that, you know, were the big names for any teams this year that they were least taking a long look at.

So that's interesting as well. So they still got to do a bunch more here, obviously. But at a base, they still have to sign a ton of players. They only had 51 on the roster when the day started. They've only added a few here. But, you know, on offense, you've got to add more playmakers. I'm sure they will. The question is, you know, what level are they going to go get?

There's still some interesting receivers and tight ends and running backs out there. But the market has been nuts today. A lot of guys are already off the board. Yeah, and they're guys that were free agents. Nothing as of now. Obviously, Mario da comes back. but nothing related to Chris Paul, nothing related to Debo. And I certainly figured that Debo and Bobby Wagner would be, you know, post day one or post the first few days.

Anyway, but people that are still out there, they haven't done anything at wide receiver. With Pierce gone, they tried to make the big move for Pierce. So Dobbs, Jennings, I know you've thought all along that Thorpe, Morton from Kansas City is a possibility. Am I missing anybody in terms of, you know, names that they've been linked to, and you know, you can only believe 25% of that stuff. Anyway, Shaheed hasn't signed with anybody I don't think as of yet, right? Right. He would be an interesting one if they were like, he and Alex Pierce, I'm not saying they're the exact same guy, but it's the same general principle, a guy who gets down the field and makes huge plays, not necessarily like a number one receiver.

but obviously if you watch Seattle in the playoffs, he was a huge help for them after coming over at the trade deadline. And if you just want the best burner, I mean, that guy is it. So if they were all in on Pierce to that degree, I wonder how much they're all in on Caheed there. Now, of course, Seattle has, they already lost a few players. So we will see if they decide, hey, we're going to keep them. but, you know, that's somebody that would be interesting.

I mean, Romeo Dobbs, to me, is the best all-around option out there. By the way, just since we've been talking, the linebacker position, which is, you know, we haven't heard a ton about that, but obviously they need some more guys. Particularly the Raiders have just signed Quay Walker and Nicopi Dean. Wow. So that takes two of the names off the board. I actually liked Dean more than Walker.

I think Walker, and who did I have on the show that really did not like Walker recently? I'm forgetting. But that's pretty wild. Really, actually, very wild. Look, the thing back to the receiver thing, I think Shaheed's completely different than Pierce from this standpoint. Like when you watch the, sheeds a pure burner. Pierce is a massive target in addition. to being a big time burner.

You know, I don't even know what the differences in height is, but Pierce is every bit of 6364. That's not Shaheed. I actually thought the Pittman trade to Pittsburgh was a really interesting one, because there have been times watching Indy over the last couple of years where I thought Pittman was just as good as Pierce. But Pierce really was very good. But Shaheed, like, I mean,

Shihide to me would be either first... He's really fancy Diami Brown. I mean, it gives you that element, but better. Oh, yeah. No, no. Shehide's is a much different player and a much bigger threat than Diami Brown. Not to mention, Shehide becomes,

I mean, Jalen Lane did a really nice job as a punt returner, but I think if you were to sign Shaheed, Shihid becomes your number one punt returner. I mean, he was as good as anybody in the league. although Lane really has a lot of ability. But yeah, running backs, Algier went to Arizona. He was my favorite. The one thing I talked about at the beginning of the podcast,

but I mentioned it early this morning on radio was that's the only thing going into the day that I felt confident in that Dowdell was probably ahead of Alger for them, and Dowdell's still out there. And so is Rashad White. uh in Tampa um yeah I would have loved to have seen Alger especially for the money it wasn't a lot of money uh what's Arizona paying something around eight and a half million I think a year uh in terms of the max it was like 12 and a half million with upside of 16 and a half yeah so like yeah like eight that is but

yeah 8.25 max right um per year uh what else what other positions um you just mentioned the linebackers So with Dean and Walker gone, that means that Lloyd's still there as of now. The guy from Kansas City is still out there as of now. Shanaul. Shanal. And yeah, God, man, I thought Dean was just an absolute, you know, great player. His issue was just staying healthy here early in his career. Who else are we missing?

Well, I'm looking at a list here, just some random list here, and like, Devin Bush is gone, DeMario Davis has gone, Alex Anzalooni, I believe, has gone. We just mentioned these other two guys. I mean, Bobby Wagner is still out there, but I don't know. I mean, if DeMario Davis, Joseph's size gone, too. Correct. If DeMario Davis got what he got at 36 or 37 years old, you know, I think there's a market for Bobby Wagner. I'm not saying it's a day one market, but somebody's going to want Bobby Wagner. Don't you think? Maybe whoever drafts Sunny Stiles will end up signing Bobby Wagner

to be, you know, the mentor. Yeah. All right. Offensive line? Yeah, I mean, you know, they, at a minimum, they need more bodies to compete for center and maybe guard for sure. There are still, you know, a bunch of vets floating around out there that they could potentially target, I would think, center overguard. The Packers just cut Elton Jenkins, who's like a two-time pro bowler. They signed somebody else.

So he's now out there. if they want to go down that ride. It looks like there's still a bunch of guards out there, Isaac Simolo, from the Steelers, Elijah Vera Tucker, Kevin Zeitler, if you want an older guy, and Backeye Beckton. So there's still a bunch of guys out there

if they want to go down that route again, by keeping Wiley and Allegrety, they don't feel pressured to have to do something, but realistically, they still need more there for sure. No doubt, but then, again, for those of you, aren't catching, haven't been listening necessarily. Chris Paul, I just don't think he's going to be back. You know, again, this thing is so, changes so quickly, anything's possible, but it feels like the market for him is going to be 12 million, maybe more, and I don't know the Washington's going to want to go there, having already, you know, invested in Tunsel and Cosme, a draft pick on Connerley is one thing, I guess, if you're going to go nuts with Linderbom, it's maybe another thing on Paul.

who obviously had a really good year, but I don't think he's going to be back. Yeah, the center position is the one right now on offense that they could end up looking bad on. I mean, if Allegredy ends up being the starting center and they had the intention of trying to upgrade on Beiotish, and they end up not really upgrading, but they go with a guy they felt maybe could be at least Biotish, which I think is questionable. That's the move, because we're in, we're still very early, but we'll see what happens at wide receiver running back.

But man, still seems interesting that Biotish was let go. All right, let's just go back to, as of now, the big move of the day without question, for them was signing Odafe Owe from the Chargers. I spent some time talking about him already. You alluded to this. I think that it's just a position for those of you that think it's too expensive. I don't know that you know enough about the player and the way the player will fit or the way they see he will fit.

Remember, we all thought Kinlaw got too much money. Kinlaw played pretty well. I don't know if he's the perfect fit for Durante Jones, but it's really about what they see for Oway in the Durante Jones scheme. But I'll let you finish up with that, just kind of your last thoughts on that signing, the money, and how people who are listening should feel about it. Well, I mean, look, I think this connects to the draft that's coming up

in that if one of those pass rushers is there, David Bailey, Ruben Bain, et cetera. The reason you look to take a guy like that at number seven is because of this exact situation. It is a crazy expensive position. And it's one of the key positions for any team. So you've got to get as many guys as you can, and you're going to have to pay through the nose when they hit free agency. So that's why you have to, you know, take advantage of the keep contract if available. Look, again, they had to do something here.

you know, the combination of O.A. and a healthy Dorrance Armstrong is essentially pretty interesting, and then you have Payne and Kinlaw, Newton, and settle inside. They still have to get more help. And, you know, we don't know exactly what the defense is going to look like. Is it going to truly be more of a 3-4, or is it going to be a 4-3, and they have guys, you know, drop in the coverage, what have you. So that's the part that's tricky, but they had to do something. And, you know, and again, the position is, expensive. I mean, even guys who were further down the list were getting 16 plus million a year to play that spot. So, you know, they had to pay up. They decided to do it. And, you know, look, who knows what they would have done if they had landed Pierce or somebody else with,

there may have been other players that they were in the mix for that we just don't know about. So this is where they landed. I don't know if that's because they're like, crap, we have to do something. Or like, hey, we really, really, really like this guy. We're willing to pay. They obviously did. So, you know, we'll see. They had to do something, you know, and they got it done, but there's still plenty more to work to be to do on the edge. You know, they've got to get, whether it's the draft or for agency, they've got to get some more bodies here.

There's still some guys out there for agency that could be interesting. But look, if he's able to give them a pass rush and Armstrong comes back, you know, that changes so much that, you know, it's really funny. The real moment last year where everything turned, was truly, I think, not just with the Jaden injuries, but Armstrong got hurt in the doubt game in Week 7. And from that, the next that games, in the next four games,

they've lost by at least 20, the eight-game losing street piled up, and they just had no pass rush, and everybody behind them got exposed. So you've got to have a pass-rush. You've got to have more than just one guy that you're relying on. You've got to have a bunch of options, and that's what they're looking to do. Yeah, I mean, I've mentioned this also is that, by the way, on Dorrance Armstrong, you're right. I still don't know that if Armstrong hadn't gotten hurt,

that the defense would have been so much better, but it would have been better because he was their best defensive player. It's just like their best offensive player didn't play enough. Their best defensive player, at least in the moment, didn't play 10 games of the 17. But in thinking about Armstrong and Oway, and then they, you know, re-signed Dietrich Wise. Wise certainly could be an early down player as well

and part of that D-N rotation. And let's not forget, like you said, we don't know what their alignments will look like. Yes, the Brian Flores system was in base a lot. Their base was a 3-4. Does that mean O'A is a two-point stance outside linebacker? Is that what Armstrong is? What is Louvre?

Where is he defensively? Because I can't imagine that Durante Jones isn't going to use Frankie Louvo as a pass rusher. So they're still, you know, they got better with Oway. And again, I talked about this in the open. The money is, you know, it's the position more than anything else. This is like the Montez Sweat deal a few years later, and his comp in some ways is Montez Sweat.

So we'll see. Time will tell. I would bet that, you know, other than our fans, a lot of the NFL people who will end up grading these things out might say Washington paid a premium, but I don't think they're going to look at O.A's contract and say Washington was literally, you know, fleeced by the agent and no one else was willing to pay it. I'm sure somebody else was willing to pay him something close to that. yeah i mean look and again when jayled phillips got what four for 120 yeah early in the day with everybody was like wow even though he's a good player that's a lot of money it just raises the price i mean that's just how it goes you know interestingly trey hendrickson is still out there i'm glad they didn't go that route only because 31 like they need to get younger to boot and faster and all that's up but he's interesting he's still out there i'm curious to see what he gets

when it's all said and done. But yeah, they're on the board. Good for them. And, you know, they've got more to do. I mean, the liebacker group, I don't know what they have right now. Between Louvo and Jordan McGee, we'll see. And they're still going to get more. So a long way to go.

Thank you for doing this. Glad we were able to record it. I'll talk to you later. See you. Ben Standing, everybody. Vinnie Serrato next after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation. We know spring weather can be fickle.

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It'll include the 50% off everything you've purchased or will purchase, and then you can make the decision. Mention my name, I promise you, they'll take good care of you. All right now, the former general manager of the Washington Redskins, Vinnie Serrato. It's been about a year, I think, since we had Vinny on the show. Vinnie's been hosting radio up in Baltimore for several years now with Bob Haney on 105-7 The Fan. Actually, how long have you been doing that radio show? I think like 12.

Oh, my God. Do you remember the first radio show you tried to do? Yeah, my first one I ever did. I did it with George Michael. Oh, but you did one, you know, remember it 980 for that one season. Oh, yeah, that's right. I did that too. but I thought you were talking about when I was at the Redskins

and I had to do the radio show, and the first one I did there was with George Michael. Well, that would have been TV with George Michael. No, I, no, remember I had to do the radio because Zorn, you know, couldn't talk to the media right. Oh, I had to do the radio show from Redskin Park. Oh. And my first one, I did it, I think, once in every first.

Friday, I think it was, something I can't remember. But George Michael did the first one with me, which was awesome, you know? Yeah, of course. Yeah, George was the best. I was referring to that one year where you came into the station, you did a radio show for, I think, most of the season. It was on Fridays, I think, going into, I don't know, I didn't host it with you. I know that. I don't think you wanted me to host it with you. Chris Russell, I think, did it with you.

Is that, is that correct? I don't, I don't remember that. Well, here's what I remember, and I wonder if you remember this. You took calls, like on one of the first shows, and then it didn't go so well because we had lost like three or four games in a row. And you just said, with a great sense of humor, you said, you know, I don't want to take calls anymore. Do you remember that?

No. Yes, that happened. I guarantee you that happened. But, well, you just said something. You said that Zorn didn't like doing any of the media, but Dan really hated doing media, right? He was super uncomfortable doing it. Hated it.

Yes, was never comfortable. No, he did not like the media. And Zorn liked it too much. He said he couldn't lie on the radio. Yeah. Yeah. You know, early on Dan did some stuff, but I think over like the last, I mean, you know, this was after you were gone. I would bet you that other than maybe some sort of an announcement of somebody, introducing somebody, I mean, he became, and this is the way I described it, because it was true from a public recognition standpoint, he was a recollection. He was a recollection. He was a recollection. He became. He became, and this is the way I described it, because it was a record. He was a record. He was a. He became. He became. And this is the way. And he. And he. And he was a I mean, he just avoided anything having to do with the media. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, he did not like talking of media. Yeah, he didn't, he liked being in public if we want. Right, right. So this time of year, today, the first day of free agency,

which is one of the reasons I wanted to reach out to you. How much do you miss? being a part of it? It was always fun, you know, because we were always so aggressive. You know, so I always enjoyed that. And even when I was in San Francisco, you know, we were aggressive all the time there, too. And, you know, like, remember when it started at midnight? We'd be there and everything. It was, I enjoyed the heck out of it because, you know, there was a lot of work that went into it.

And it was pretty exciting, staying up all night and everything. Well, you've told me before, and you've been pretty candid about this, even though you don't really elaborate. But a lot of the work that went into it sometimes got trumped by, you know, a whim that Dan had at the last minute. That could happen at times, yeah. You know what funny was one of the free agents, And this was like one of the first years I was there because I was living in an apartment

because my wife was still back in Chicago at medical school. So I was back at an apartment. You know, I had like a two-bedroom apartment, like a mile, you know, from the facility. So we get done like four or five o'clock in the morning and Dan says, come on, let's go to your apartment. And then he takes my bed, makes me sleep on the couch in my apartment. I said, Dan, you're a billion. there, you know, and you're in this apartment over here. I said, it's kind of funny, you know?

Yeah, I mean, it's, look, you know this, you know that for many years, and we still refer to these things. I've shared this with you before, that, you know, it was not, well, let me go back. I think the first free agency year, Dion, you know, Carrier, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, I did not, as a fan of the team, I can tell you right there, in that moment, I actually enjoyed it. And then for me, the real turning point was after Marty won eight of his final 11 in 2001. And Dan said, I'm not having fun anymore. I want to go back to the way it used to be. and Marty said, well, I'm not sticking around.

And so they parted ways. And then I started to get concerned. But for the rest of that decade, there were a lot of swings and misses. When Joe came back, you know, with Cornelius Griffin and all, you know, those guys, we had some pretty good guys at that time. Give me your biggest regrets in free agency. Oh, Painsworth, for one. Yep.

You know, and Adam Archiletta. the other one. Should have kept Ryan Clark, you know, because he was so tight with Sean. Right. You know, that was a thing. Those are probably the two major, major one. How did the Archiletta thing come down? Why Archiletta and

why not keep Ryan Clark? Um, a lot of that was Greg. Greg Williams wanted, wanted to do that. You know, I mean, I think that we underappreciated Ryan. You know, maybe they just felt like Sean, you know, because he was so great, he could do anything. And Arch just didn't fit.

He was not a fit. He was a fit with Greg Williams' a son because they lifted together all the time and everything else. You know, that's who he hung with. But, you know, a long time. ago. Now he's a TV announcer. You know what? He's not bad, actually. I think he does a pretty good job as an analyst on the

air. How did Haynesworth come down? You've told me the story before, but here we are in free agency. Tell it again. With Albert, we were going to sign Canty. We had Canty committed.

Chris Canty. And then, yeah, Chris Canty. He was committed. I had to tell him that, you know, we weren't going to take him then because they kept you know kept throwing money at Albert and it

it got it got done and that you know and uh yeah that was because wash never wrote boss didn't want him you know the defensive guys didn't want him and the one the one guy was with him

you know sherm was sherm smith the offensive coordinator who dorn's but he was with Albert or whatever I knew them, you know. In Tennessee. Yeah, just something we shouldn't have done. You know, we should have just kept with candy and, you know,

just taking, you know, people that wanted to play and loved to play. You know what I mean? That's the big thing. You got to take guys that love the game. Tell me the players that you signed over the years that you really feel proud of in Washington. signed over it. I think Bruce Smith was a good signing. You know, the thing with Bruce was, Bruce could still play.

I mean, pass rushers, they still can do it because of their brains and everything else. But the thing with Bruce was, Bruce, that was when we drafted Chris Samuel. Bruce basically got Chris ready all the time. So I think Bruce was really good in the locker room and stuff, too. You know, I mean, Bruce was a good addition. But, you know, like Cordelia's Griffin and all those guys that we took that year when the champ went to Denver. Yeah. That worked.

You know, we went to the playoffs and the defense got a lot better. So those guys, you know, really did a nice job, you know, there. You know, and like the first year, you know, in 99, you know, getting Irving Friar and stuff. And then Larry Centers and that worked out pretty good, too. We won the division that year. So we had some, in Brad Johnson, you know, some of those worked out pretty good. And, you know, most times when they worked out were somebody on the staff had been with that player and knew him and could vouch for character.

Charlie's told the story before that, you know, when Dan finally took the team over and had the ability to start doing things, in the summer of 99, the Brad Johnson trade had already been done, and that the first thing that he wanted to do was undo that trade. Do you remember it that way? I don't recall. You know, that was news to me. I know that they wanted Jeff George. I know he and Fred wanted Jeff George,

and Brad had just been all pro. So that was one that was an interesting. deal. I love the way you put it. An interesting deal. That's the one that he and, I don't know, maybe Pepper wanted too, but you didn't want Jeff George, you're saying in 2000. Oh, no. No. That was, um, Norb was still here. Yeah, I know. And Brad Johnson, Brad just went to the pro bowl and we were a field goal kick away from playing

St. Louis and the NFC championship. Yes. You know, so it was like, why, you know? But that's just one of those things where you get overruled. I remember going to tell Norm, I said, Norm, you never get. You know, it was at the owner's meeting, and he said, what? I said, they want to sign Jeff George. And he said, he'll never play for me.

I said, oh, that's fine, you know. So it was not. something that really anybody in the building really wanted. All right. Enough about the past. We could talk about it for a while longer, but I've done it with you before in previous conversations. And I really reached out to you today to get your thoughts on free agency day one, maybe get into the draft a little bit, and certainly get your thoughts before we are done on Lou

Holtz. Free agency day number one is the time of this recording at about two, 30 p.m. Eastern. The big names, Kenneth Walker the third to the chiefs. Also, Alec Pierce staying in Detroit. Tyler Lindrebaum, the center from Baltimore, you're very familiar with everything going on with the Ravens. He signs with the Raiders. So just give me your overall thoughts kind of going into today some of the names you were looking for, some of the things that you were interested in. up and you know we've been talking the ravens all the time on our show so i mean we were concerned um linda balm and stout and i said all all weeks a couple weeks prior to if they got if they

weren't signed by sunday night they were going to be gone and they were you know and i figured that stout would go to the giants because of harbs and you know with linda bomb he was just going for the most money that's what he's what he's he was going for. You know, I think, I don't know if he was mad at the Ravens because they didn't give him the 50-year option, but he ended up, you know, hitting a home run financially. So let me back, go back to the weekend. What was your reaction to the Max Crosby trade?

Too much or not? I was shocked. I was shocked just because they had never traded a first-round pick before prior, and they gave two. and that was, you know, Eric DeCosso loves draft picks. So that one shocked me. I never thought that would happen,

but I do think it's a good move, you know, because their window is right now, you know, to win. And he feels the biggest need that they had in approving the past Russian and the leadership and stuff that he'll provide along with Roquant Smith and Kyle Hamilton. You know, they just need to get, Lamar's deal worked out and get him, you know, back to being Lamar,

then they need to fix the O line. They fix the O line, then they'll be all right. Is it worth investing whatever Trey Hendrickson wants in him if you're Washington? Not a long deal. You know, I mean, he's going to be 32. Yeah. And he didn't play this past year. So that one, I think this, I think you'll get great first year out of them, great first year out of them. I don't know after that. You know, but the thing about it is, like I said, because like when I was at the Niners,

we had every Hall of Fame pass rusher at one point. And a lot of them were older, like Dolman and Richard Dent, but they all, because Ricky Jackson, you know, they had lost a step or whatever, but they knew every counter in the world. So they still can be productive, but they got to stay healthy. That's the thing. They got to stay healthy. And if Hendrickson can stay healthy, he'll still be productive for a couple of years just because he'll be able to beat tackles.

But to give them a long-term deal, that'll be a tough one for like four or five years. You know you're going to eat some of it probably at the end. Washington was terrible, Vinny, on defense at the end of the year. They had a ton of injuries last year, both sides of the ball, but really bad on defense. And they need, not just one, they need multiple rushers. Before I ask you about the draft, do you like any of the other guys like Boye-Moffey from Seattle or O'Away from who was in Baltimore and then played really well with the Chargers? They, as of this recording, are still out there and available.

We saw that Jalen Phillips signed with the Panthers. any of those, is there anybody in terms of the edge pass rushers that you like a lot for Washington? Well, the thing about it is like Mofay and Owe, both were extremely successful with Mike McDonald and Jesse Minter. You know, playing that defense. And I think both of those guys really understood how to use that player and what made him pick and what made him successful and let him do what he did. well. I think those two did that. When Zach Orr came in, boy, didn't have a sack. You know, when Zach Orr was here, then he gets traded out to Jesse and he has 10 and a half. So I don't, who's your, who's the D coordinator?

It's Durante Jones. He was on Brian Flores' staff in Minnesota. In Minnesota? Yeah, I don't know, you know, but I know what Jesse Minter did with O'Way. I know what Mike McDonald did with Owe and Mike did with Maffa. So, you know, they knew how to get him, get them to play. So, you know, if with O'Way, he's got speed, but he's not a natural rusher. He can run four-four, so he gets a lot of stuff in chase, you know, and he had Khalil Mack and the other guy on the other side, too, you know, with the Charters, good people.

Yeah. But he's just not a natural bender around the corner. You know, but he can run like hell. I want to ask you about the pass rushers in the draft in a moment, but tell me real quickly, offensively at wide receiver, you know, we talked about Pierce. Washington's definitely going to be in the market for adding wide receivers. There's a chance, you know, Iyuk and Jaden Daniels reunite. First of all, should Washington be in the market?

interested in Brandon Ayyuk? That one, you know, I mean, I know Kyle Shanahan's, you know, that one, that one would make me extremely nervous. And if you get him for, you should get him for cheap. I'm sure that, you know, he's made a ton of money from the Niners and hadn't played. Right. So if they could, right player, right price. You know, I think on that, and I, I wouldn't, you got to prove to me that you

really want to play. What about Stefan Diggs? Like for the Ravens, on my show, I said, no. You know, I mean, you got young staff, young people, and he's been on three teams in, what, three years? Yep. You know, and he's, there's something there why people keep getting rid of him. just like for the Ravens and a 29-year-old offensive coordinator and stuff,

I didn't think it would be a good fit there. With Jayden Daniels, you know, and he's a local kid, it would be another one. You've got to know the character. That would be that you'd have to feel totally comfortable that, you know, and why are all these people getting rid of them? Yeah, well, it's short shelf life for sure, but a good player for that short time that is on the shelf.

So Evans just signed in San Francisco. We've got Pierce, obviously staying home. Washington needs a receiver. I'm a big Juan Jennings fan, are you? Yeah, I think Jennings is, yeah, not bad. You know, bigger receiver. I think like for Jaden Daniels and stuff, that bigger receivers, you know, bigger targets, I think it will help him out a lot.

You know? And Debo Samuel probably doesn't have a ton left either, I would imagine. You know, I mean, separation. He's got to win a lot of contested catches. So one last position, well, two, real quickly. Isaiah likely is gone from Baltimore. By the way, what did you think of him as a potential starter? Oh, yeah, definitely.

like him a lot. You know, he's not a blocker at all. But his yak ability is unbelievable. You know, this past year, his yak was terrible. You know, he didn't have a great year this past year because he was hurt most of it. But the year, when he had to start when Andrews was hurt, he was phenomenal. And they offered him a deal in the summer. You know, he wanted to go to free agency. And I don't know what the Giants paid him. I haven't seen what the Giants paid him, you know, but kind of tells you what Harbs thinks. And I think like on quick screens, he can run and he's got good hands,

but his yak ability was unbelievable. His balance and stuff very good. All right. One more on free agency, and this really goes to your personal experience and your personal learning in doing the job. You were in the seat. You had to evaluate players.

You had to pick players in free agency. Beyond Vinny, the player's ability, Once you had identified that a player would fit, a player had the ability that you wanted. What was the most important thing? Or what did you learn going through the process of doing this all those years? What's the most important thing you need to know about the player before committing big money to him? The biggest thing is, is passion. You know, do they love it?

Do they love it? Do they want to win? Do they love it? How passionate are they? Are they willing to work, or what are they going to be like after they get paid? You know, and none of that has to do with talent. You know, I mean, they got to, you're not going to go after them unless they've got the talent to fit. But the character stuff, you know, the compete level, how they fit in a locker room,

all those kind of things are what's really critical. Washington's picking number seven in the draft, and they need defense. Tell me the way you kind of see the defensive players in this draft. I've graded the offensive linemen. You know, the offensive tackles I've graded as far. I'm starting actually tomorrow doing the pass rushers. Oh, okay. Sounds like you can't go wrong with Ohio State.

Right. I mean, they got linebackers. They got a safety. So they got three that are going in the top ten probably. you know, on the defensive side. All right. Well, this is an area that you love doing. So maybe what other position, have you only done O-line? That's all I've done thus far.

All right. Well, then I'm going to reach back out to you and have you on before the draft before, because, you know, Washington's got to, you know, they've got to find a pass rusher. And the kid from Texas Tech, obviously Reese from Ohio State, Bain, Miami, they're all these guys. And so I'll wait until you've done your evaluations. I know you've got to go work out, but before you do, I just wanted to get your thoughts on Lou Holtz. I talked about your relationship with him last week, read from a story in which Lou Holtz gives you a lot of credit and a lot of people give you a lot of credit for the Notre Dame success during that national

championship era of the late 80s. You worked with them at Minnesota. So just you just, your thoughts on a guy that you knew very well passing away last week. Yeah, I'm going to the funeral Monday. But, yeah, he was phenomenal. I mean, you just felt like you were in, when you would go to a school or be with him, you know, everybody was in awe, you know, like the bill, like the school stopped when he walked in. You know, it was, it was kind of cool.

And the way that he could talk to parents and stuff when he sat there was amazing. And his speaking ability, you know, unbelievable. And how he prepped teams to get ready for big games, none better, none better. Thank you for doing this. I'll reach out to you before the draft. Always enjoy it. All right, Kevin, thanks. Vinnie Serrato, everybody.

And again, we recorded that earlier in the afternoon before a lot of the free agency news. broke, but it was interesting to hear his thoughts on Oway. All right, that's it for the day back tomorrow with Tommy.