The Kevin Sheehan Show - Payne Over Allen

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

Kevin and Thom today eventually get to ESPN's ranking of NFL defensive tackles which included both of Washington's starters in the Top 10. Before that though, Kevin's trip to Spain, Thom's upcoming month in Spain, Sally Jenkins' award-deserving piece on Evert-Navratilova and Dylan Crews to the Nats, The boys finished up with thoughts on the NY Times shutting down its sports section and the Wizards' actual long-term plan.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. We are back again. Together. Better than ever, which is the way I opened the show that I did on Friday.

The old Greenie back and better than ever. Which, by the way, I don't think anybody ever felt that that show was better than ever. Although I've actually... I think actually... I think actually... I think it had to be better than ever because it couldn't have been that boring before. I have to tell you that I was, you know, we didn't, Mike and Mike, that radio show ran on our station for years because we were an ESPN affiliate, and that was the one show we cleared for ESPN, and then the rest of our day was local.

You know, we had Tony on following Mike and Mike, and then you and me did a show together for many, many years, in the middays, followed by coach and Doc and Brian and Zabe and Andy for all of those years. And, you know, all of us kind of made fun of Mike and Mike. It wasn't anybody's favorite. But I will tell you that I have really come to like Greenberg and the job that he does on that get-up show on ESPN. That is, that's the show that now with my new schedule, I actually watch that show. and look, there's probably too much NBA this time here for everybody else. My God, the Summer League NBA.

I'll get to that in a moment, or in a few moments, because they don't deserve many. But he's really good at what he does. And I just, Golick was just to me, the problem with that show is nobody was ever, Greenberg was more of a traffic cop, not a big opinion or sports. sports guy, and Golick was just, I don't know, kind of... Our nickname for it was same and samer. Yeah, it was, yeah, I mean, they weren't the same, though, really. No, but I mean, in terms of one guy would say something, and the other guy would say,

yeah, you're right, and then he'd give his version of the same thing. There wasn't much conflict. You know what? You're right about that, Tommy. You're 100% right about that. Yeah. I want to tell you about my trip, but I also, I don't have, the schedule that you gave me for the summer on the air, I didn't write down, shocker. Shocker. Yeah, I'm a little confused by it.

So when are you going to Spain for the summer, for the rest of the summer? Okay. I'm leaving for Spain July 31st. I'll be back September 1st. That is summering in Spain. That is over a month. Good for you. I'm assuming that you won't be doing any podcast during that time. No podcast, not writing any columns. No work except my own little personal gig I'm doing.

Writing, personal writing. The movie thing? By the way, did you talk to Howard about your movie? I did talk to Howard. We've been in touch, and we're in the process of working together. All right. Very good. Thanks to you.

Thank you. You finally stepped up to the place. Well, you didn't need me to do that. You could have done that on your own. Where are you spending the month of August in Spain? Well, you know, I don't know the official name of the town. They call it Las Navillas. it's about an hour outside of Madrid up in the mountains.

And it's a mountain town where people, like from the city, go to get away from the heat of August. Right. So, Liz's my wife's family, Liz's family, her mother was born in Spain. We have many relatives over there that we've been in contact with many times back and forth over the years. and they have a lot of homes, summer homes in this town. So we're rented a big house. And basically the whole family at different points of the month from here is going to be over there. Like it's a seven-bedroom house.

Gotcha. So. Yeah. So. But we're going to be there the whole time. And another couple will be there the whole time. Got. Gotcha.

You know, from the royal palace in Madrid, which we, went to. You can see the mountains in which you will be living in. And there's a lot of history in those mountains from way back in the medieval days and before, and before that. But I'm not going to bore everybody with it. But Tommy, we went to Madrid and Barcelona. I had not been to Madrid before. It was great. Loved it. Loved it. Loved it. Yeah, it is. Barcelona is very touristy. Look, anywhere you go in Europe this time of year, you know, that is, you know, known for tourism. tourism is going to be touristy. But Madrid was awesome. It's a great city, phenomenal city. Yeah. You know, Madrid was great, but we rented a car when we were there. Like, we're going to write one this time, too.

And, you know, they have these traffic circles everywhere in Madrid. Yeah. And they have traffic lights, like, at different points of the circle. But they're not where you would see them in America. They're, like, down low. And I can't tell you how many red lights I ran. on those traffic circles because I didn't see it. It's amazing. I never got a ticket for one or we never had an accident. Well, we didn't rent a car. I mean, we took a lot.

I mean, it's a taxi city, and we took a lot of taxis, but we walked a lot. We figured, you know, basically we walked, you know, 10 plus miles a day pretty much. And it's a great walking city, and it's a, you know, just a, it's a great city. I enjoyed Madrid. Barcelona is, you know. this time of year, it was fine. And a lot of people... We went to Barcelona, too, in 96.

When we went there for three weeks with the kids back in 96, and in Barcelona, we loved Barcelona too, but the highlight of the trip was me grabbing a pickpocket trying to reach into my back pocket to get my wallet and throwing them on the ground and him taking off the kids. That's their greatest memory of Barcelona. I'm going to be doing that. Dad came up big. Dad wasn't going to get pickpocketed.

It would have been a disappointment for the pickpocket or had he actually succeeded. I don't know if it would have been one of the high-end customers. I'm kidding, of course. No, you're right, but you're right, especially in 96. Yeah, but, yeah, it was a, I talked about this on Friday. that's not for me a vacation. You know, when you're, you know, going from, you know, the royal palace to the Prado to, you know, that beautiful unfinished, Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, which, you know, we've seen before.

But I, that's a trip. Like, and when it's over, I enjoyed it. It was great fun. But it wasn't like it was relaxing. It wasn't a vacation. A vacation is more beachy for me, or it involves at least some golf. And my wife loves doing these trips, and we usually do this. You know, I mean, once every two summers will do something like this.

I think there was a run there of several summers in a row where we did it. But it's not when you get back, it's like, oh, you feel refreshed. No, it's work. And there are only so many cathedral. and museums you can do. For me anyway. But then again, I can't sit on a beach all day either. I can't do that.

That's boring. I like I like vacations with a lot of different things packed into them. Like road trips. Like, you know, like we've done a few of those. I like those. Right. You know? I feel like I've accomplished something after

I've done a vacation like that. I want to do a road trips. I want to do one of those legitimate road trips where you, you know, you get in something, I don't know what we would rent to do it and you just, because this country has a lot to offer doing it that way. It's also, it gets to be long days driving. But anyway, more vacation time coming for me as well in August. You know, we got to do. What do we got to? We have to get a, we have to get a sponsor, a sponsor for a road trip, a sports six road trip. Kevin Shee and show road trip.

Are we going to be in the same vehicle together all day long every day? Well, we won't make long trips. We'll have to make the shorter trips, so we're not driving eight hours a day. The half-dayers? Yeah. Yeah. You don't make them shorter trips, and then we do the podcast. Well, we could do the podcast while we're driving.

Yes, we could. That would kill an hour plus. Anyway, you're going to have a good time there And you'll be up in The weather was actually perfect The great thing about it was hot like, you know, 88, 89 But it's a dry heat, you know, there's no humidity So it was easy to deal with

I'll tell you what, back here We are in the throes of a D.C. summer right now After having a great start, you know, a spring that was pretty cool, I think. And then a perfect start to the summer. Like a lot of June was really nice. Man, it is hot and humid. And every single day...

It's not too bad today. Not bad today. Well, I just... I went out after the radio show and I just got back. I was getting my haircut, which Tommy said, and I told Tommy it took a little bit longer than I thought. And he said, yeah, well, that's because you have your hair styled. Yeah, right.

First of all, I barely have any hair. I go to a barber shop, and the same barber shop I've been going to for many, many years. And it was just, it was crowded. And actually, the person that I was waiting for to cut my hair was cutting someone else's hair. Actually, a guy that I used to play hoops with all the time. He was in the chair, and we ended up talking, his son just got a D2 scholarship, and is playing basketball somewhere down in Florida. So anyway.

Well, you know, I have a hair cut challenge coming up, a situation coming up. Yeah, Hemingway. Everton, during COVID, Liz started cutting my hair for me. And after COVID, I mean, she did a pretty good job. Right. I liked it. So she's continued to do it. Before that, I used to go to sports clips because, like I used to say, it's almost sex going to sports clips and get your hair cut.

Pretty close. Okay. So I would go to sports clips, but now I get it home. But, you know, I have a trip coming up before Spain, and that's in a week. Yeah, the Hemingway looks like a thing. Yes. So I have to go, I'm going to go in the sports clips with a picture specifically of heavyway and say, you need to make my hair look like this, and my beard look like this.

So that's my challenge. I have to go get somebody. Heavenly way did not have curly hair, and I've got like real bushy curly hair. So I need to get certain product to keep it down, and I need to get a cut in my beard shape. Imagine if you win this thing. I'm not going to win it. I have the impression that guys who have played, you know, it's like they have a lot of guys who I think come back for this. So I would think that they probably reward returnees who maybe have never.

one. I don't think rookies win this. That's my impression. I don't think rookies win this thing, but I'm going to give it a shot. So now I have the rest of your summer schedule or not? When is that little, you know, excursion down to Florida for that? That's next Wednesday. But this weekend on Thursday, we're going to Wildwood Crest for five days. Okay, so that's why we're doing Monday and Wednesday of this week. Yes. And then you're... And next week, I can only do Tuesday, Only day next week. Okay. All right.

So next week is Tuesday only. So that's the 18th. And then the following week would be the 18th, would be the 25th and 27th, and those will be your. So basically, you've got four shows left with me this summer. No, five. Yes. And that following week, that following week, I probably can't do Tuesday. So maybe we could do Wednesday and Friday.

Hold on. Let me get, let me make sure I'm clear on, because, you know, there's going to be some accounting this summer. I know. So the 10th and the 12th are days you can do it this week. Then next week, you can't do Tuesday. No, I can do Tuesday, and that's it. Okay, you can do Tuesday the 18th, but you can't do the 20th? Right. Okay.

And then the following week is the. 25th and 27th? Yes or no? It would be better if it was the 26th and 28th. Okay, the 26th and 28th. So we have five shows left together and this is one of the five and we just spent the first segment trying to figure out your schedule again. But I now have the days, basically you're, you know, we're in countdown mode and then we'll, you know, we'll have you back when the football season starts. I can't wait for the football season. I mean, I talked about it on Friday, Tommy. I, you know, people are really upset with some of the disrespect the commanders are getting. There's a lot of disrespect out there for for Sam Howell in the national, you know, media, football media, and a lot of our fans and

listeners don't like it at all. No. Oh, no. Yeah, they're upset. I read this from, Hold on, let me find it. I read this on Friday show. Mason wrote me, Kevin, why don't the so-called NFL experts see what we see? ESPN's ranking of our roster being 24th out of 32 teams is an insult, and it's just wrong. None of the five teams immediately in front of them, Green Bay, Chicago, the Raiders, New England, and New Orleans are better. Sure, an emphasis on quarterback is important, but none of those teams have their quarterback answers for sure, except for the Raiders. Maybe they've got Derrick Carr. Not the Raiders.

The Saints. The Saints have Derrick Carr. The Raiders don't have the answer. The Raiders have Garapolo. The so-called experts are, I didn't pick up on that the other day. The so-called experts are judging this roster as if it's a Snyder roster, but times have changed. So, yeah, I mean, maybe, maybe times have changed. I actually, and I said this on Friday, and I want to get your reaction, I actually believe

that there's some truth in that. This roster is the best roster this franchise has had in a long time. That's not saying much, but it really is. But the bottom line is, if you don't have something known at quarterback, like known in a good way, you're not going to get any

national pundit to say, I see through the fact that they don't have a quarterback that is a for sure bet right now. Look at the rest of the roster. That defense is loaded, the receiving core. The backs are better than people think. They're a top half of the league team. You're not going to get that without the quarterback. And by the way, the offensive lines a massive question mark.

Yes. But people really... It's more of a question mark this year than it was last year. Yeah. I think. It might be. You know, last year there was some optimism because Ron had talked about, you know, how great it was the year before. He was trying to sell Russell Wilson on how great the offensive line was per PFF the year before, but they lost a lot of those people, including a guy by the name of Brandon Sheriff. You may have heard of them because he was on the team in 2021 and was not last year. But I do kind of see, and I, you know, although the ESPN defensive tackle rankings, which we're going to get to before the end of this show, actually gives Washington a lot of credit for what is known and is.

is legitimately high-end, and that is Duran Payne and John Allen. They're both excellent players, and they were evaluated that way by many of the, you know, execs and coaches around the league. But who knows? Maybe Washington's a little bit underrated, but we don't know about the quarterback. Maybe, but you know what? They've earned it all. They've earned it all. They've earned it all. You know, if they're getting a skewered view from the outside looking in, it's a view that they've burned. Well, I read what Randy Mueller, the GM for that Seattle team that we went to the game, the DIVs, not the Divas, the XFL Washington team, the defenders. And he was, you know, he was standing right next to us as we were standing up, the three of us, you Doc and I. But he wrote about Sam Howell.

What would really cause me to need medication to sleep is the decision they have made at quarterback to go with a 22 5th round pick Sam Hal who has one career start. I've watched his game on tape more than once trying to see what all the hubbub is about. I even went back to reassess what I saw on him at North Carolina before the draft. I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

I'm not saying he can't be good someday. I'm just saying I could never give him the keys to the car right now with the amount of information we've gathered and processed if my future were on the line, like Ron Rivera. And then he wrote, the prior decisions the commanders have made at this position add to my skepticism. Lots of QB bodies have been discarded the past three years. Yeah.

Like if, even if for those people who have this incredibly strong opinion about Sam Hal, favorable opinion, the same people that had the favorable opinion about Carson Wentz, like, just take a step back and just say, look at their track record here on quarterbacks since they got here. Like, it's been one whiff after another.

The best guy they got was off the scrap heap as a COVID sign in Heineke. Anyway, people don't like the rankings that people are coming up with for this team and this quarterback in particular. Bless their hearts. I mean, they're sticking, they're going all in again on this. guy. I know you wanted to talk about this, and I wanted to talk about this too, so I want to do it right now, because this is one of the things I actually did do when I was on vacation. I read Sally Jenkins' story about Martina Navratilova and Chris Everett and their lifelong friendship, their rivalry, which really is an underrated rivalry, and maybe it's not underrated, but I think

female rivalries, you know, individual rivalries. Like Chris Everett, Martina and Avertilova does not get the respect that Ali Frazier gets. You know, you don't, or McEnroe Borg even, for that matter. But it's one of the great sports rivalries in history. But that, her writing, which I've always, as you know, been a big fan of, and I think you have been as well. And it's not because I always agree with Sally, because I don't always agree. agree with her. But that piece I read and then I made Kara read it.

I'm like, you don't care about this stuff, but I want you to read this because this is really moving and it's really beautiful. What kind of an award will she win for that? Because I forget the awards that you have so many. You know what? I think that's a pollitzer. I really

do. I think it's that good. I think that's a pollitzer for sports well, I'm not quite sure what category it would be. But that That is as good a writing as I've read about anything in quite a long time. It was exceptional. I did the same thing. I showed it to Liz.

What made it so good? I guess the plaintiffy of what they both have gone through with their health. Right. I mean, you know, we want our rivals to be close. You know, we don't really like it when our rivals, like, hate each other forever. Like, there was the whole Ollie Fraser thing where Fraser hated Ollie until the day he died, you know? And that always, I think to me, and maybe other people took away a little bit from it because part of what we like about a rivalry is guys and women, men and women, give of each other so much against this particular opponent that they've developed something special. like they have to have something special that nobody else has

because of what they've given to face each other. And so we want them to at least respect and maybe even admire each other. I mean, I see it in boxing all the time. There were these great middleweight, Jean Fulmer and Carmen Basilio, who fought wars against each other in the late 50s. Absolute wars.

They became best friends at these boxing. like, you know, fight night things, these old legends night things. They would show up together with their wives. They travel together. But in the ring, they almost killed each other. Right. And I think that's an attraction to me. And I think what we read in that story was how close these two rivals were outside of tennis.

That's what made it special. Yes. I think, Tommy, that rivals usually, you know, the individual rivalries, there usually is an unbelievable amount of respect at the end of it, even if they weren't, you know, close. And it was more antagonistic during it. But it wasn't for them. It was at times. And it started that way. I mean, Martina, you know, defected from Czechoslovakia, Chris Everett.

grew up in beautiful Florida with a father who was her tennis coach, but very demanding. And she had this, you know, personality. And I kind of remember this as kind of the ice queen. You know, she was this incredibly poised competitor, but still super competitive. But it was, you know, it was cute little Chrissy, but she never really changed her expression. And Martina was, by the way, a phenomenal athlete. One of the first great athletes, individual, sport-wise, to train at a level. Like, she was already athletic, but she was overweight.

Remember, when she came to this country, as good as she was, she was overweight. And then all of a sudden, with the help of, what's her face, the basketball player, Nancy Lieberman. became a fitness, you know, fiend. And Martina, during that stretch where Chris couldn't beat her in the 80s, their relationship wasn't super close. And, you know, it went back and forth. But, you know, when it was all said and done, they played 80 times against each other, 80.

I know. You know, head to head. I mean, it's really, it's, stunning. One of my favorite lines, and I remember when she said this, but I forgot it, was when Chrissy finally beat Martina. Right. At the French. And Chrissy said, nobody beats Chrissy ever 18 times in a row. Right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, now.

This was pretty funny. Yeah, that said, the final head-to-head was 43-37 Martina in the 80 matches. They played in 60 finals against each other. 60. And Navratilova leads that 3624. And they played in 14 Grand Slam finals, Navratilova 10 to 4 and 22 Grand Slam matches. Most of those are either in the semis or the finals. And it was 14-8 Martina. Martina for me, as someone who really loved tennis, especially during this era, Martina was better. She had, she was, she was, who's the better all-around player. I think Martina may be the best ever, a women's player that I've ever watched. She's the rival, I think, to Serena Williams.

If you're going to argue best, I think it's her or Martina. But Tommy, as far as female players. The other thing that made this so great, and, you know, Sally does refer to it, you know, but it was the, what they say about styles make fights. there was a massive contrast in styles, just like there was with Ali Frazier or Ali Foreman. Chris Everett was the finesse counterpuncher. Navratilova was the Servin Vollier. She was the athlete. And when Chrissie did finally, you know, break that streak and beat her at that French Open, which I think was the 85 French Open, it was great.

And yeah, a big part of the story is obviously the fact that they both had cancer. and they have relied very much on each other. It was a great, great read. Yeah, if you haven't read it, and I think everybody on the planet has, but if you haven't, go find it. A sister-in-law of mine who doesn't know anything about sports, but it's very smart. She sent it to me unsolicited, saying,

a friend of mine shared this with me, you have to read it. I had already read it, but that's the kind of play. that this story got. And it was well deserved. I looked this up earlier because the rival, like I said, I don't think this rivalry ever got the recognition it kind of deserved. Now, keep in mind, this is a rivalry from the, you know, the 20th century. They played for the last time in the 1990s.

And remember when ESPN did that, you know, sports century series where they counted down the 100 greatest athletes of the 20th century. They did that like in 1999 or whatever year 2000. They also had the 10 greatest rivalries of the 20th century. And the number one was Michigan, Ohio State. Number two was Ali Frazier. number three was North Carolina Duke. Number four was a head-to-head in basketball, Chamberlain Russell. Five was Maple Leafs Canadians.

Six was Palmer versus Nicholas. Seven was Red Sox Yankees. Eight was Auburn, Alabama. Nine was Redskins Cowboys. And 10 was Giants Dodgers, which you know you would remember a lot of. And then on the... Well, it's still a big rivalry on the West Coast, giant Dodgers.

And then they wrote that, you know, there was another 10 that they listed Army Navy, Lakers, Celtics, Texas, Oklahoma, Packers, Bears, and they had in the others kind of receiving votes, Everett and Avertilova. Yeah. But, you know, I have an athlete who was part of a rivalry like that,

That's really a gift. Oh. I mean, you know, there are some athletes who were great on their own, but were never defined by an opponent. You know? I mean, in a way, these two are defined by each other. You know, and that's the great thing of a rivalry is the measure against somebody who pushed you so hard. And I think it enhances somebody's stature in his. history to have been part of a rivalry.

No doubt it does. There's no doubt it does. Magic had Bird. Chamberlain had Russell. You know, I don't know that, you know, Michael and LeBron didn't necessarily have that foil. But I think it applies to team sports too, Tommy. When players and coaches are part of a great rivalry, in many ways they're defined. Look, especially in college sports.

You know, the Ohio State and Michigan football coaches essentially are defined by how they did against the team up north, if you're an Ohio State coach, and the Buckeyes, if you're a Michigan coach. This was on recently, and I just caught the last 30 minutes of it. It was a great documentary on the Michigan, Ohio State rivalry. And their 2006 game in particular, which pitted number one, number two, both teams undefeated in both shows. Jim Beckler passed away, dropped dead, literally two days before the game. That was crazy. But I think it applies to sports. Look, for all of the players that we know from the championship Redskin teams,

they talk as much about the winning Super Bowls as they do some of the big games against the Cowboys. I mean, Thysman has said many times before, the win over the Cowboys in the NFC Championship game made the Super Bowl anti-climatic. You know, they all have said that. And those kinds of rivalries, I think you were speaking more to, it defines the individual athlete or the individual team player against an individual from another great team, like Magic Bird as an example. But I think it goes with teams, too.

I mean, being a part of a rivalry like that, like Redskins Cowboys was. I'll give you an example. I had Randy White on my podcast, Cigars and Curveballs, when I was doing that. And he spoke glowingly and admirably about Joe Jacoby and how he's trying to push to get Jake in the Hall fame. Right. I mean, they hated each other. They told me, I mean, the Redskins offensive line, it told me that these guys would spit on each other. turn game. Right. The rivalry was so deep. And now, I mean, when they get together, because they

share that, they have a special bond. There's a connection. There's a real connection when you've been a part of some of those games that they were a part of. Remember, they had like this big, like it was a flag football game between a lot of the former Redskins and Cowboys one year. I forget what that was for specifically. But yeah, a lot of those guys ended up becoming. you know, friendly. And that friendship probably started with, oh, my God. I mean, how about that game in October of 1972 or whatever? Like they were on the field competing at what was some of the biggest moments in the sport during those years.

Yeah. College in particular, I mean, imagine being a Carolina or a Duke basketball alum. you know, and having that connection to that rivalry. Same thing, Alabama, Auburn, Michigan, Ohio State. Yeah, it's, anyway, it's a great read. Yes. A great read. All right, let's get to a few other things.

We've got a lot to get to, actually, including Dylan Cruz, who the Nats picked at number two overall. We'll start getting to all of that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of our show is brought to you by my bookie. Go to mybookie.com or my bookie.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. to secure a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000. You have to use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. to claim your bonus. They've got an online casino, an online horse race book, and they've got all of the NFL preseason prop bets that you'd want to wager on. Go to mybooky.com, mybooky.orgie.org. Use my promo code. Kevin

DC. So Tommy, do you have a strong opinion about what the Nats did last night and selecting Dylan Cruz at number two overall after Pittsburgh did select Paul Skeens, the pitcher from LSU? Well, I mean, this was a situation where the NACS really couldn't go wrong here. I mean, the thinking is that because of the Nats history, they would love to have the starting pitcher. They love to have schemes. But Cruz is a hell of a consolation prize, as Barry Saluga wrote today in Washington Post. I mean, he may be the best prospect in the draft, even though Bryce Harper was a high school player. And Dylan Cruz was a college player since Bryce Harper.

He's that good. And, you know, he's a lot closer to the major leagues. than a high school player, having played at LSU, a national champion. I mean, it's conceivable he could be up here next year. I mean, you know, I mean, with some of the players they got James Woods, who came over in all those deals last year, played in the futures game, the All-Star Futures game, as did Brady House, one in that draft picks. You know, Cade Cavali will be back from.

surgery next year. It's conceivable that next year could be similar to 2011 for the NAC in their last go-round when they wound up 80 and 81 and kind of caught some people by surprise. Now, 2012, they wound up, you know, winning 96 games and winning the division, which also caught people by surprise. I don't know if they'd be that close next year, but I think they're close to. next year to 500 or maybe a little bit more. You sound like you know that if Skeens had been there, that he would have been the pickover

Cruz if, for example, Pittsburgh had gone with the kid from Florida, Langford. I don't know for sure. I don't know for sure. I'm just basing it on, you know, past history. I mean, nothing has changed, I think, in the national philosophy of starting pitching built championships, and you can't have enough starting pitching because starting pitchers are so fragile. Right. So, I mean, that's my line of thinking. It's not a genius line of thinking. But what was intriguing to me because it would be hard not to come away with that number two pick without a quality player.

What was intriguing to me was their second pick, which was the 40th pick in the draft. The Nats had the first pick in the second round. Right. But that wasn't until the 40th pick because there were so many compensatory picks in between the first and the second round. Right. So the NACs picked 40th, first in the second round. And I was up at Nats Park last Wednesday, and I had two people high up in the organization, unsolicited, say to me, we have to get that 40th pick right.

We have to get that one right. that's the one that they considered a challenge. You know, I mean, number two, they just didn't think they go wrong with what was available. But the 40th pick, they really,

with a lot of pressure, they picked this kid, this third basement, called Yondi Morales out of Miami, who's got a pig power swing. A lot of home runs, a lot of misses, too, but his game sort of fits

the way Major League Baseball is today. And for an organization that has lacked power within their farm system, this was a big step towards addressing that. You know, he's a third baseman. I'm real curious to watch, you know, where he'll be at some point next year. Look, there's no reason to think that this next team within the next year or two won't be competing for a division title again. because, well, here's the only thing I'll hold them back. Okay, we don't know the ownership situation. We don't know who's going to own the team.

We don't really actually know if they're still for sale or not. Everyone's assuming they're still for sale, but we don't know for sure. Nothing's been announced. Nobody who works for the team has any idea if they're for sale or not. I can tell you that. They're up in the air about it. And so, I mean, if it's the learner still hanging on, you know, until they get the right price, Are they going to spend the money to supplement this young talent, you know, in free agency to put a competitive team on the field?

Probably not. You know, will the new owners who just have to spend maybe anywhere from $2.2 to $2.8 billion to do that? We don't know. Ownership really comes into play now with the future of this team. do you really think like i had mark on the radio show today and he said you know there are some in the organization that would love to think that what cincinnati did or is doing right now is possible with the nationals Cincinnati lost 100 games last year and now you know they're nine games over 500 and in first place in the nl central now they they have an apparent superstar um on their on their on their team

in Dela Cruz. But, you know, this is something that, you know, after the Soto trade with all of the prospects that they got back for the Soto trade, for the Scherzer and Turner deals, et cetera, the goal was always by 2025 being in kind of that contention. You know, maybe it's not for the division with a team like Atlanta, but it's for a wild card. You see that as a possibility that two years from now, on July 10th, 2025, we're talking about a team that's above 500 and is in contention for a playoff spot? Well, again, with the uncertainty of how young players will perform in the major leagues into account, yes, I do see that 2025 being a year where the NAC could compete for a playoff spot.

I think next year it'll be competitive, not necessarily for a playoff spot, but won't be what we've seen for the past four years. You know, it won't be a doormat. You know, won't be 20 games under 500 at the All-Star break. And it'll be exciting. I mean, because people love watching young players because of the uncertainty because of the unknown factor. You know, now the one drawback is Dylan Cruz is repped by Scott Boring. And that means that, you know, you only got to have them for six years.

But, you know, six years is an eternity right now. for this team. So, you know, and Boris has the best players, usually. So, I mean, that's one of the drawbacks. But you're not going to see Dylan Cruz, if he's any good, signing any long-term deals here in Washington. That's never going to happen. Maybe something will change down the line. All right. Well, it's something to look forward to. Look, they beat the Rangers two out of three. They finally won some home games. You know, last weekend, they, beat, they took two out of three from the Phillies who have been playing, uh, been playing great, um, recently. So, um, you know, C.J. Abrams has had a nice little

run here recently, which is good. Yeah, especially since Dave, he put him at the top of the lineup. Right. He's hitting lead off. By the way, that's been a big change for him. The Orioles. My God. Every time I look, you know, at, I'll pull up the, the box scores early in the morning from the night before and it's like they're just pummeling people. Um, really, really good baseball team in Baltimore. I mean, this is a legitimate contending, you know, World Series contending team. I mean, they're two back of the raise.

After the start, the raise got off to this year. Yes. They've got the third best record in baseball overall. Atlanta's having... They're very fun to watch. Atlanta's having an unbelievable season right now. They're a great organization, and most of those players are signed to long-term contracts.

Yeah. One thing happened, Nats-wise, that I wanted to ask you about while I was away. Josiah Gray gets the All-Star nod over Lane Thomas. I thought Lane Thomas looked like a lock with the season he was having, but I guess it's easier to pick a pitcher off a team like the Nats. Well, I just think, you know, as far as the roster being put together, maybe it's what they felt they needed. maybe they had this, you know, this surplus of outfielders,

and maybe they wanted a starting pitcher in this case. You know, Josiah Gray has pitched good enough to be an all-star for this team. Lane Thomas is an interesting question because now comes the trading deadline at the end of the month. Right. And then that's how you have a couple of real components worth trading for it. The third basement, Candelario, is probably a lot to be traded, but he can help somebody. He's got a good bat, and you'll get something for him, even if he's a rental. A couple relief pitchers maybe they could get something for.

But Lane Thomas is a very good tradable commodity. And he's still under contract for another two years. The Nats have to decide, is this the best Lane Thomas is ever going to be, or is this who Lane Thomas? is. That's their question. I think if they get the right deal, they'll trade him, but it have to be a pretty good deal to trade him because, like I said, he's under control for another two years. Right. And look, this is, you know, this is clearly his best season. He doesn't have anything resembling this. I mean, last year, and a lot more, you know, basically double the games, not double at this point. They played, you know, well over 80 at this point. But

he ended up with 17 homers and 52 RBIs and hit 301. I hit 241. Now he's hitting 302 with 14 homers and 49 RBIs already. I mean, he's going to push 25 to 30 home runs and, you know, potentially 80 to 90 RBIs. The way I described Lane Thomas so far has been, and he's proven me wrong this year, he's a good fourth outfielder on a good team. Yeah. Okay.

And he would be. But he may be better than that. We'll see how he does after the All-Star break. All right. I wanted to talk about one of these lists that are out there. The ESPN's been putting together this same thing they've done the last few years, where they have coaches, execs, scouts from around the league, roughly 80 of them, pick the 10 best players at each position group.

They did off-ball linebackers the other day, and they did defensive tackles over the weekend. Now, they just put out edge rushers, and Washington does not have an edge rusher on the list. I'm sure a lot of people thought, in year, you know, after year two and year three for sweat, year two for Chase Young, that maybe they'd have a top 10 pass rusher, but they don't. They don't even have, you know, among the honorable mentions. Nor should they. More disrespect.

Yeah, but, but they're disrespect there. But they shouldn't. And, but the defensive tackle issue was, I was very curious to see where Payne and Allen would rank if both of them would be in the top 10 or if it would just be Allen. Because Alan was in the top 10 last year, um, But I think Payne had the better year last year. They both had outstanding years. And sure enough, both were in the top 10. But the surprise was that Duran Payne came in at number eight among the top 10 defensive tackles in football ahead of John Allen, who came in 10th.

Now, I'll give you the whole top 10, for those of you that haven't seen it. Aaron Donald, still at 32 years old, is considered to be the best defensive tackle in the NFL, probably the best defensive player still in the NFL. Chris Jones was two, Jeffrey Simmons, who I am in love with and have been going back to his college days. His big issue is staying healthy. He's finally getting kind of the credit that he deserves. He came in at three. Quinn and Williams on that jet defense, which is great, came in at four.

Hargrave at five, remember he signed with the 49. and he's always been underrated as a player. And then came two players at six and seven that I personally would not have ranked ahead of John Allen and maybe not even Duran Payne. But they had Dexter Lawrence at six to Forrest Buckner at seven and then came Payne at eight, Cam Hayward at nine and John Allen at 10. Now, ranking pain ahead of Allen is a surprise, I think Tommy, for most Washington fans. I think, you know, Allen's been in these kinds of rankings before. On that top 100 player list from a few weeks ago, Alan was on it. Pain wasn't on it.

But here's what some of the coaches' execs around the league scouts said. An NFC execs said, quote, I always thought since I studied him that he has the most talent out of all of those linemen on the Washington defensive line. He's a great combination of talent and football intelligence, and he matured and came into his own last year. An AFC scout added he has everything. Power explosion can stop the run or pass, probably a bit underrated at this point. That's what they said about Duran Payne. About John Allen, low-key elite and AFC executive said, powerful can take over a game in both. phases, super impactful, and honestly makes life for pain easy.

I totally agree with what was said about Duran Payne. I think he is the most talent. Look, I think Chase Young, actually, of the defensive lineman, has the most talent, just pure, you know, athletic talent for the position that he plays. But Duran Payne has been one of those freakish interior defensive lineman. the moment he came into the league, and the biggest issue with him was consistency. And last year for the first time, and I know it was a contract year, we've had that conversation. He was consistently great. And he's getting the attention for being that.

And let's hope it continues. One person, one of these people who voted on this, ranked Duran Payne as the second best defensive tackle in football. Wow. He has enormous athletic ability and acumen for the position. And this is the strength of this football team. I will be so disappointed, Tommy, if they're not a really good defense again. They were a really good defense last year. They should be, once again, an exceptional defensive team led by Payne and Allen.

And who knows? maybe, you know, sweat takes another big step because he took one last year. Chase Young turns out not to be a bust and turns out to be a big-time player. I think we're going to see a lot from Jamon Davis this year, a big jump from him, and they've got a lot of young, you know, talented, starting with Cameron Curl, secondary players. This should be a really good defensive football team this year. It really should be. And it's well-coached.

some people don't like to hear that. I agree with all that. I agree with all that. It sounds like Bruce Allen did a hell of a job when he was the GM. It was Kyle Smith more than it was Bruce and that's in that staff. You know, you can say that, but you blame Bruce Allen if they were bust. That's true. I don't know if I would. I think actually, you know what? Bruce Allen loved John Allen and Duran Payne. He did. There's no doubt about it.

I mean, I can tell you because I was, before the Duran Paine, there was a lot of Duran Paine or Vita Vaya in that NFL draft. And a lot of people thought Washington was going to take Vita Vaya. And I knew who Bruce liked. And I stuck with my prediction of Duran Paine the entire time. Now, my preference would have been D'Rwin James in that draft. who went, I don't know, five picks later, something like that, four picks later to the Chargers. But I knew that Bruce loved Ron Payne. Remember, that was the phase in which they were just, their default was Alabama players.

Yes. You know, it wasn't a bad default. No, it wasn't a bad default. And John Allen, remember, slipped to them, and they were super high on John Allen because he was also somebody that a lot of people in the organization knew because he, you know, played at Stonebridge in Loudoun County. Yes. And so, I mean, you know, Coley knew him for a while when he was a high school player.

And so the, you know, and it was the concerns over the arthritis in his neck, really, I think more than anything else, that dropped him, was it 17? was taken? I think it was 17. But, you know, it's not this group that gets credit for the Interior defensive lineman. It's not. Right now,

they've missed on some of their early round picks. It would appear. Hopefully things change. But I was glad to see, you know, look, when the writers do these lists, we acknowledge them because it's that time of the year. But these particular lists are

compiled based on the opinions of people in the game, scouts, general managers, coaches. And Allen and Payne are really highly respected. I mean, they're the only team with two in the top ten. The only team with two in the top ten. The Giants have Leonard Williams on the others receiving votes, honorable mention. So with Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams side by side. That's a pretty damn good tandem. But I don't think Lawrence or Williams personally is better than Payne or Allen, although Lawrence is a dominant, dominant inside run defender. And maybe one of the best there is in the league. And he dominated that playoff game at the end of that playoff game that they won against Minnesota.

I know you wanted to talk. What a waste. To have that kind of defensive talent and not have a quarterback. What a waste. Well, I mean, we've seen a lot of teams go through this over the last 10 years. I mean, there are a lot of teams like Denver that come to mind. The Jets come to mind. You know, Buffalo before they got Josh Allen comes to mind.

Teams that were really, really good defensively and just didn't have. a quarterback and this league is about the quarterback. I mean, that's why they're not getting all of the preseason love because there's no love for Sam Howe. There's hope and wishing for Sam Howe, but nobody knows anything. You know, I didn't mention this, but the CBSSports.com put out these tiers of quarterbacks and ranked them the other day. Will Brinson from CBS Sports was a big part of it. Tier 1 was the big three. It was Mahomes, Burrow, and Josh Allen. Tier 2 was could join the big three next year, Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Trevor Lawrence, and Jalen Hertz.

God, Jalen Hertz, what a year. What a difference a year makes. Same with Trevor Lawrence, really. Tier 3 was intrigue with question marks. Aaron Rogers, Matthew Stafford. I did see the story over the weekend about the Rams trying to trade Matthew Stafford. during this offseason. He's got to be done physically. They have to have no trust in that arm, that elbow, that UCL injury. Two is on this, in this tier. Justin Fields,

I actually am intrigued to watch this year. Daniel Jones, Deshawn Watson, and Russell Wilson are in tier three, which is intrigue with question marks. This isn't necessarily a ranking of the quarterbacks in order. They've got them in tiers. The next tier is you can win with them. Jared Gough, Dach, Prescott, Gino Smith, Kirk is there, Ryan Tannahill, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo. Tier 5 is future potential. You can win with them guys, future they believe. Mack Jones, Kenny Pickett, and Brock Purdy. And then Tier 6 is no clue, man, no clue.

Kyler Murray, Jordan Love, Baker, Mayfield, Desmond Ritter, and Sam Howell. Because you know why? That's the reasonable position. No idea what to expect. It's got some talent. Some of his talent fits with what makes a good quarterback in 2023, but got no clue. By the way, Kyler Murray being on that list. Like a year ago, Kyler Murray Jalen Hertz, and this is the NFL, man, just wait because things change.

Jalen Hertz is considered near elite, and Kyler Murray is no clue, man. And then they've got the rookies in kind of the final category, Bryce Young, C.J. Stroud and Anthony Richardson, because nobody knows anything about them yet. I know you wanted to talk about the Wizards. We will do that. Also, the New York Times is doing away with their sports section. We'll finish up with those two topics right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, Tommy, I've actually watched some Wimbledon here the last few days.

There's a really exciting American who pulled off a major upset today, Chris Eubanks, 27 years old. He's been a journeyman tennis player, and he is now into the quarterfinals at Wimbledon, and he is one hell of an interview. But do you think they're watching Wimbledon down at Shelly's? You know what? I think they are. Okay.

I think they probably are watching Wimbledon. I mean, look, I think tennis is watchable, unlike golf. Unlike the NBA playoffs? Yes, unlike the NBA playoff. and golf. But I think tennis is watchable. I don't recognize hardly any of the names anymore. Like I was plugged in like most of America was in the 70s and the 80s to tennis.

And I was plugged into it. So, yeah, I think they're watching it. Look, it's a place to go if you want to watch sports. And it's the only place to go if you want to watch sports and enjoy a cigar while you're watching it. You know, light up a victory cigar if your team wins. or a consolation cigar. If your team loses, I was there Saturday night. I went to the Gray's game.

Graze had a double-header against the Yankees of the Cal Ripkin League, but there's the big train. And we wound up splitting a double-header. So I had it in between cigar, a winning cigar, and also a consolation cigar. Okay. You know, but that's the kind of place. It is. It's the place where it's the only place you can do this.

Let me just point that out. okay you want to celebrate your team where you want to watch a sporting event whether it's the nationals on tv or xFL football or wimbledon and smoke a first-class cigar from their great selection shelley's back room at 1331 f street northwest in the district is the only place to go with a great menu of food a menu of excellence as i like to say do you ever when this podcast is over and you're on your way down to Shelly's, just have a podcast victory cigar saying, that was one hell of a show today. You guys really have to listen to the show today.

We did a great job today. You know what? We should get a cigar manufacturer to come up with a podcast cigar for it. Let's do one podcast. Let's do the road trip before we get to a cigar. We're not Sonny Jorgensen. Sonny had his own SJ-9 cigar. Yes, he did.

That's day nine. All right. So you wanted to talk about the Wizards, which is interesting because you never want to talk about the Wizards. So what do you want to say about the Wizards? Well, you know, I mean, they wound up signing Kuzma, Kyle Kuzma, to a four-year, 100-plus million-dollar deal. No, it's actually much more. The details on the contract came out over the weekend. It's $90 million guaranteed.

It's a pretty team-friendly deal. Okay. But still, with the acquisition of Jordan Poole and re-signing Kuzma, it doesn't seem like they're going in the direction that everybody was patting Ted on the back for when they traded Bradley Beale and they brought in the new front office where people were saying, well, finally, they're going to break it down, you know? they're going to suffer for a couple of years, get some high draft picks, get some real talent, that game-changing talent. You know, Ted's finally doing things differently. To me, this is a repeat of what they've done. This is a retooling. You know, I don't see the difference.

So let me try to explain the difference, because I will tell you that while I was away and I saw that they re-signed Kuzma for that deal, I was surprised by it. And I talked a little bit about this on Friday. And before I even knew that the deal was truly a team-friendly deal with sort of descending salaries and commitments, I did think, well, maybe this is part of the plan. They want to get something back for Kuzma, who's a good player, who would be a great trade chip, you know, for a contending team at the 24 deadline or the 25 deadline with what would be, you know, a fairly attractive. remaining part of his contract. Because remember, Porzingis and Kuzma both could have walked and they could have gotten nothing back for them. You know, as far as Jordan Poole, remember what they also got in the Jordan Poole deal for Chris Paul,

which, you know, I'm glad that they got back a haul. Now, Jordan Poole has this existing big deal that they're taking on, but they also got back some picks and some other young players, et cetera. But so the down. side of this, and I talked about this on Friday, if you view it as a downside, is that, well, wait a minute, because isn't the goal to try to win 15, 16, 17, 20 games and be in the hunt for the next few years for top two to three pick each year in the draft? Because that's the way it's going to be done. And so by having Poozma, aren't you now a threat to win, say, 30 games? Probably not the 35 that they just won. But is it possible that you're going to win 30 games and not really be in the hunt for a top two or three pick next year? Yes, that's possible. I mean, I don't know that they're going to be that good with these two guys.

Both of these guys can really score. But this is not a playoff contending team or even a play-in contending team. It's not as good as the team they had last year. Porzingis was probably the best player on the team. and, by the way, had the biggest upside of any of the players. I do expect Jordan Poole and Kyle Cousman to be able to score, and they'll score a lot. I would bet that both of them average 25 a game.

Poole might go for something in the upper high, you know, in the high 20s per game. But I think that what they're trying to do, and I don't know this for sure, I think there are a couple of things at play here. Number one is they want to make sure that they don't lose Kyle Cusma for nothing. They should have traded them. at the trade deadline this past season.

They didn't do that. But that's not this group. They want to make sure that they have the ability to get. Remember, it's not like they got a haul of a lot of first-round picks for Bradley Beal and Christopps Porziggis. You know, and then the only first... But the problem with Beal was you were limited to the teams you could trade with. No, understood.

I mean, there are no trade clause in the salary. We've gone through that. We know why they couldn't get back hauled. for, you know, for Beal and even for Porzingis. But, but, but, but, but, but Coosma could bring something significant back at a trade deadline for a trade deadline deal in 24 or 25. You know, right now the, the, the first round picture you're talking about for next year, it's their own.

So you want them to be bad. Look, I want them to go all in on this thing. And it's possible now that instead of having the second or the third or the first, you know, or the worst record, they might have the fifth. worst record, or the sixth worst record in the league. But Tommy, there's another piece to this. And I was thinking about this this morning, literally as I was kind of, you know, going through this on the air, I think that they don't view next year's draft as a draft that has

a superstar kind of player. I know. The draft that, the draft that people are looking at is the draft that comes the following year with Carlos Boozer's son. I think it's Cam Booser is his name. And then also the kid that is blowing up at the Peach Jam, this Cooper Flag from Maine, who right now, like you start to look at the mocks coming out this summer for next year for 25. It's going to be this guy, Cooper Flagg, and Boozer. And both of these players are considered to be like big time, maybe not. not Wembenyama or LeBron, but like true franchise types of talents.

And they don't exist, at least according to a lot of the people now. And these things change in 2024. And there's also a great belief in the 2026 draft. I know this is major projection, and they could be wrong, you know, as a lot of teams. But I think that could be a part of their thinking. And let me point out, they could also be wrong. I mean, it's also major projection and rolling the dice on Kuzma will, A, stay healthy, B, produce.

Yeah, he's produced pretty well. I know he has. He's a good player. But shit happens. Right now, he may be the most tradable that he's been. Yeah, but you can't proceed with the idea that a player is going to get injured and be concerned about that. Kyle Kuzma, you know, average, whatever it was last year, was it 22 a game? It was right below Porzingis. If he's a tradable commodity, you certainly can.

If he's going to be part of your future, he can't operate that way. He's not a tradable commodity if you let him go. They had the option of signing him. They should have traded him. Oh, but that's not this group. That's the last group that fucked that up. They could have traded him. They could have traded him before the death. deadline, but he had a player option. He could have opted out and become a free agent just like Porzingis. Look, could they have pulled off something like they pulled off with Porzingis with Kuzma? Yes, that's possible, but they obviously didn't like whatever value they were going to get back with a player that controlled the situation with a player option. Porzingis, remember,

is the concern about him among the league with injuries was much greater. I think Kuzma could be very valuable. It's also possibly. get injured, yes, but he could be much more valuable to them next February or February of 25 than he is right now to them. By the way, I'll just add this. It's also possible that Kyle Kuzma, I think maybe even in some ways more than Jordan Poole, because I'm just a little bit concerned about the person Jordan Poole and what kind of teammate and commitment, et cetera. We'll see. He can really go offensively. But Kuzma at, you know, 27 years old, is a guy that if they were to land a young player or two over the next two years could be the veteran presence when they start to

contend down the road. That's possible too. I don't know that that's really in their mind. I think they were like, look, the drafts we got to be focused on are the 2025-20206 draft and getting multiple picks in those drafts. And next year's draft, if we end up with number six overall. I mean, I don't know that that's what it is, but I do know that a lot's bitten written about the 2025 draft in particular is being the draft that you really want to position yourself for. I can see that, but it was eyebrown raising. I mean, you know, I was surprised.

I slapped them on the back for, you know, for finally putting themselves in a position, you know, to be able to pick some good talent. Now I'm a little bit wary of it. That's all. Yeah, look, the last thing I want, I mean, we spent multiple days praising them for this is what, you had to do when you're the Washington Wizards because you'll never, ever, for whatever reason, have Kevin Durant team up with two other superstars and bring the act to DC. It's got to be done like, it's almost like your small market, like your Oklahoma City via the draft. And so,

you know, the idea of getting back into this cycle of just trying to be good enough is not attractive to anybody. I just don't think that's what they're doing here. The Georgia, Look, they pulled back Jordan Poole because, you know, you had Chris Paul's contract and Jordan Poole's contract. Golden State couldn't make that trade without unloading the Jordan Poole deal. But they got back a lot more than just Jordan Poole. You know, the only first rounder they got in all of these moves with the 2030 protected Golden State pick. I know. I know.

It's so ironic that Ernie. Grunfeld used to hate those second round picks, and that's all, they've got a boatload of them now. Yeah. Tell me about the New York Times ditching their sports section with the intent on having the athletic, which is what they acquired about a year ago now. You know, Ben writes for the athletic, David Aldridge, Josh Robbins, Tarek, all these guys that we have on the shows all the time and are friends of ours. the athletic is going to become the sports section for the New York Times. So as a longtime writer and newspaper writer and columnist, what is your reaction to this? Well, I think it's kind of funny that the Washington Times Sports section is still standing and in New York Times Sports section fold it up.

I don't know if it's standing, but it's kneeling anyway. Okay, well, whatever. There's a sports section out paper, baby. Okay? Yeah. Look, I mean, it's the demise of the business, the changing of the business. I'll be honest with you. The New York Times, obviously, they've had some great calmness over the years, guys like Dave Anderson,

guys like Red Smith. There have been some great reporters there like Buster-only, Tyler Kepner, guys like that. But to be honest with you, in New York, if you're a New York fan. The Post or the Daily News. The New York Times Sports section was always third. I know. Yeah. It was the Daily News, the New York Post, and the New York Times.

Right. They were almost an afterthought inside the city in terms of sports. Yeah. Agreed. Outside, you know, that the Times does the whole big picture thing, and they're going to keep their sports reporters to do big picture type of reporting. You know, the egghead. type of reporting that they like to do.

And they've got some very good people to do that. But for the nuts and bolts of your team, you didn't read the New York Times in the city. You read the Post and a Daily News. I think still. So I was always kind of ambivalent about their sports section anyway. Yeah. But you know what?

They need a Los Angeles Times just announced, I think, the same day, that they're not going to carry box scores in their paper anymore. Wait, say that again? The Los Angeles Times announced they're not going to carry box scores in their sports section anymore. You know what? It's when's the last time you used a sports section from a newspaper to look at a box score? Today.

Seriously? Yes. Look, I don't, I mean, I don't read the sports section anymore. I get the post online. I read your columns, which I enjoy. But I don't read the Washington Post for sports news. I don't. I mean, it's just, first of all, all due respect to all the people there. The columnists are the best part of their sports section, and a few of those anyway. but it's not like, you know, and by the way, I think actually Nikki Javala is one of the best that they've had in a long time covering the team. Yes.

Because it's been a while, you know, probably since Mike Jones. But I don't, I mean, you get stuff much, like I follow Nikki on Twitter. Like that's where I get Nikki Javala's reporting. I don't read her game. And I love Nikki. I don't read her game recap or the box score in the paper. I mean, I just don't. I haven't done that in years.

I don't, Tommy, I can't remember the last time now I've had an actual physical newspaper opened up in front of me. Well, all I know is that the New York Times sports section is dead and buried, but Matt Parris and I are still standing. You're right. Matt does a great job, and you're pretty good, too. By the way, I wanted to also, because I mentioned this at the very beginning, one thing I would never do at any point in time is look at a summer league NBA box score. Oh, God. I do not understand how this happened.

I know we've had this conversation in recent years. The popularity, or I don't know, maybe. it's faux popularity of NBA Summer League. It's ESPN so highly invested in it. And I guess that's why it feels like it's a much bigger thing than it's ever been. But, oh, my God. I mean, people who, like, last night I turned on the Celtics Wizards game briefly because there was nothing else going on.

And Ryan Rollins looked great to me. But then I realized, who's he playing? I mean, yes. Come on. The Summer League NBA games, regular season NBA games with NBA players barely matter. Listen, I got, I had first-hand experience with this. I was out covering a UFC fight many years ago, and the Summer League was going on. So I went over to see the Wizards, and Oleg Petrov was their number one pick that year.

Yeah. And I watched him, and I came way right in the column saying, sky is the future of the team. He was a stud. I just raved about him from watching this summer league game, you know, because I believe what was in front of me. That's all I need to remember is my impression of that game and the reality that happened. Oh, I know what I wanted to tell you. I watched the first two episodes of the Bill Walton thing, and there are two more episodes to go. You're going to have to watch that, and I'll finish it because we've got to talk about Walton on the show. The first two episodes of this thing were great. I'm getting exhausted.

I'm getting exhausted with documentaries, aren't you? I mean, there's a Will's documentary coming out on Showtime, and I love Will, but I'm just getting exhausted, and they're not really documentaries, the way I remember documentaries. They're more like PR pieces. You're going to love the Walton thing, though. I think you're going to love the Walton thing, though. I think you're going to I love the Walton thing. He's such an interesting, and it was such, he's such an interesting guy. I mean, this was, you know, a guy who was super activist in college and had this, you know, straight-laced, you know, all-time great coach and John Wooden, their relationship. He's, I loved Walton as a player, Tommy. I just thought Walton was one of the greatest players when he was healthy. of all time. And I think if he had stayed healthy, we would view him as one of, you know, as one of the

elite. I don't know if it would be, you know, Mount Rushmore status, but it'd be damn close to that. That's how good he was. I agree. And let me just close with this. When is somebody going to do a documentary about us? That's what I want to know. Never would be the answer. You'd be, I'll tell you what, you'll seek out somebody that'll do it. Maybe it'll be the podcast association. The local association will do something. For those of you that asked about Silo, I did watch the finale when I got back.

It was tremendous. Of course, we're going to have to wait another year for the next season, but a great show and a really, really good finale. So I did enjoy it. There's your answer on that. Tommy isn't watching anything that has to do with, you know, otherworldly, post-apocalyptic stuff because stranger things apparently didn't have any of that in it.

All right. What else? Anything else? That's all I got for you, boss. You did a good job today. It's good to be back. It's good to be back. I'll be back tomorrow.