The Kevin Sheehan Show - Phew on Watson

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Kevin opened with several things including the latest on Deshaun Watson and Jack Del Rio. Kevin had Jeff Zrebiec/The Athletic on the show to discuss the crazy Lamar Jackson contract situation in Baltimore. Also, Kevin Grevey jumped on to talk about the Bullets' title 44 years ago and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show today. Jeff Zebrick from the Athletic. Jeff covers the Ravens.

Why am I having somebody on that covers the Ravens? I think the Lamar Jackson Contractsaga in Baltimore is one of the more interesting NFL storylines right now. And actually, one of the more fascinating contract stories we've seen. seen in sports in a long time. If you're not following it, Lamar Jackson is representing himself. Jeff will be on, and we'll talk about that with him. Following Jeff, Kevin Grevy will be on this show. It's always fun to catch up with Kevin, and we will do that on today's podcast. Kevin was a part of the only Washington NBA championship team, and that happened 44 years ago last night. The Bullets beat

the Supersonics in Game 7 in Seattle to win it all. We'll have Kevin Grevy on the show. We'll talk some NBA finals with Kevin as well. Game three tonight in Boston, the Celtics are three and a half-point favorites. I do not like a side either way. But I'm looking forward to watching the game, and I hope Tommy will give it one more chance and maybe we'll get a really good game tonight in game three of the NBA finals. The Broncos, assuming the NFL approves, sale will be sold for $4.65 billion. That is two times what the Panthers were sold for back in 2018 when David Tepper bought the team.

If Denver is worth $4.65 billion, what's Washington worth? A lot more is the answer. The Broncos will be sold to Rob Walton, one of the heirs to the Walmart fortune. Denver's a really good NFL City, don't get me wrong, but it does not have the same potential financially as this market does. Denver's sale, if it

goes through and if it's approved by the NFL owners, it needs three quarters of the NFL owners to approve it, it will become the all-time highest sale for a professional sports franchise. If the league ever forces Snyder

to sell, and I don't think that'll happen, or if he decides to do it on his own, and I would probably bet against that as well. I think Washington would sell for $5 billion plus, maybe a lot more than that. I wouldn't bet on Dan being forced out, as mentioned, and I wouldn't bet that he'd sell voluntarily. But if he did, if he did, he would pocket a hell of a lot of money. And that's even after paying off the debt that he incurred to buy out the minority shareholders, Fred Smith, Bob Rothman and Dwight Schar, when he paid $875 million for roughly 40% of the minority stake that those three gentlemen held. Now, think about this. If Dan decides to pay off that debt that he used to buy those guys off by selling another, let's just say 40% of the team, a non-controlling stake in the team to another.

group of minority shareholders, well, the value, even though it's non-controlling, and that's why the $2.2 billion valuation on the minority share sales to Schar, Rothman, and Fred Smith, it's really not reflective of what the team would sell for. You always sell, you know, a non-controlling minority stake for less than you would sell it if you were selling it, if you were selling a majority stake. You know, the minority shareholders pay less for their stake than a majority shareholder would pay. But still, the point being that if Dan were to sell that stake that he bought back from Schar Rothman and Smith, he might be able to sell it for a lot more than he paid for it given the recent Denver sale. And that would be another, you know, big win

from the football team for Dan. You know, buying out his minority shareholders for $875 million was, you know, kind of a deal, really. And if he were to sell that stake, he'd probably be able to sell that stake based on the recent comp, the Denver comp, for a lot more. Anyway, I got this tweet from Joel. Joel wrote, Kevin, do you think it would have gotten any worse with Deshawn Watson if he had been traded here? LOLl exclamation point. Joel's referring to my opinion that if they had traded for Deshawn Watson, which I was in favor of, you know, as long as they had done all of their research and due diligence to determine that he was going to actually be able to play in the league and he wouldn't be in jail,

I said, look, how much worse could it get for this franchise? Well, if you haven't read the New York Times story on Deshawn Watson, which is why Joel was tweeting this to me last night, Deshawn Watson in the New York Times is reported to have sought out massages with 66 women over 17 months. We know about the 24 pending civil cases against him, but he sought out massages with 66 different women over 17 months. So to Joel saying, do you think it would have gotten any worse like he was saying that tongue in cheek? yeah, I was wrong about that. Of course it would be worse. It would be a lot worse. Forget the fact that they would have traded, you know, whatever Cleveland traded. It was like three number ones, two number twos, whatever. It was like six, seven picks. And forget the fact that he would have required the contract

that Cleveland gave him, which is unprecedented in terms of guaranteed money. That alone would have wrecked the team if it turns out that Watson's going to miss a ton of games or maybe even a full season. Who knows at this point, really, about when he's going to be suspended. He's going to get suspended. But yeah, this franchise more than any other would have been brought to its knees by the recent Watson allegations, reports, etc. I agree. Would have been awful. It could have gotten a lot worse. And let's be honest here. I understand he hasn't been charged with a crime. You know, he wasn't indicted by that grand jury. And I know that he's denied all of these allegations.

But 24 civil cases. 66 women over 17 months. This dude had, and for all we know, still has a major problem. This is not he said, she said. This is a raging fire of a guy that was clearly out for massage sex. not massage therapy. He was in it to try to get sex out of the massage, whether the masseuse consented or not. I'm not even going to read the details from the 24th plaintiff that came forward with a civil case.

It's gross, if true. But again, 24 civil cases, 66 women. And, you know, it's like when the Post came out initially with the allegations about the toxic workplace and the misogynistic workplace in Washington. It's like, look, you know, if it's one, you know, if it's a couple of women that are complaining about a toxic workplace and about how they were treated, you know, okay. But there were 17 initially and ultimately there were more than 42. I mean, you can't think that all of these people conspired together to get Deshawn Watson. By the way, the grand jury did not indict him on criminal charges, but that doesn't mean he didn't do anything wrong because he's already been reported.

It's already been reported that he offered the first 22 women that had civil cases, initially 100,000 each to keep quiet. And by the way, you don't see him fighting. these charges, tooth and nail to prove his innocence in these, you know, as it relates to the civil cases, maybe he will. But he's a problem for the league right now. He is a problem for the league. I mean, they've got a lot of problems, although, you know, once they start playing football, all of these problems always go away. But it's going to be interesting to see how they handle that situation. The final OTA day for your commanders was today. From some of the beat guys

out there today. There was a moment that apparently got Ron Rivera, angrier than he has ever been. Apparently, there was a collision between Jeremy Reeves and Diami Brown, and he laid in to the team. I'll read a couple of the tweets. I'll read a couple of the tweets. Ben had one, JP had one, Nikki had one. This was, hold on from Pete Haley. NBC Sports, Washington. Jeremy Reeves just crushed Diami Brown in the middle of the field. Ron Rivera lost his mind. He grabbed the entire team for a full huddle and yelled at them louder than I've ever heard him yell in his time here.

He screamed, that makes no sense to me as Diami was walking off and looking dazed. Pressure in this third year. Big year, lots of expectations. You know, things better start making sense to him. I wonder if Jack Del Rio makes sense to him. So I'm recording this as there are interviews still going on with players after, with coaches and players, I think, after this OTA day. And I think there's one schedule with Carson Wentz.

And I will have more on that tomorrow. But Jack Del Rio was asked about his recent. activity and political outspokenness on Twitter. You know, if you missed it, Jack, or if you've been missing it, Jack is super conservative. He's a big Trump supporter. And the tweet that's getting the most attention, and there are several of them that you could choose from over the last few weeks,

including, by the way, bite these. But the tweet that is getting the most attention is this one, which came in response to a story about the district. January 6th hearings that will start tomorrow night will be televised by virtually every major network. He tweeted, quote, would love to understand the whole story about why the summer of riots, and he's referring to, you know, the riots during the summer of 2020 following the George Floyd murder. He writes, would love to understand the whole story about why the summer of riots looting, burning, and the destruction of personal property is never described.

gust, but this, meaning January 6th, is question mark, question mark, question mark. That's what he tweeted out. And he was asked about this today, and I'll just read some of what was a long response with follow-up questions, et cetera. But he said the following. He said, let's get right down to it. This was, by the way, after saying, you know, we're not going to talk about this. as an American, I have the right to express myself.

And then he says, but let's get right down to it. What did I ask? A simple question. Why are we not looking into those things if we're going to talk about January 6th, meaning why are we not looking into the riots and the burning and the many deaths and the billions and billions of dollars worth of damage that were done during that period following the George Floyd? And we're going to only focus on January 6th.

He says, why are we not looking into those things? Because it's kind of hard for me to say that I can realistically look at it. I see the images on TV. People's livelihoods are being destroyed. Businesses being burned down. No problem. And then we have a dust up at the Capitol. So, dust up at the Capitol, that's going to be a headline, I would imagine.

That's going to make some news this afternoon attached to his name. Look, I've got a few thoughts on this, but they're going to be confined and specific to Jack Del Rio, the defensive coordinator of the Washington commanders, and whether or not being politically outspoken like he has been and has really been over the last couple of weeks makes, you know, sense for him given his position. He's entitled to his opinion, we all are. His freedom to say what he wants, however, does not, does not protect him from the consequences that can come from what he says. In his position as a coach and leader of many different personalities and beliefs, I think he's taking a big time risk in being this politically outspoken as a public figure.

He's not weighing in on a candidate's tax plan. he's weighing in on topics that are very emotional and have been very divisive. I think it's a big risk for him. Not that his players and fellow coaches, if they've been paying attention since he got here, don't know already what his political beliefs are, but referring to January 6th as a dust-up is going to make news. And maybe those that have blown off some of his social media musings over the last few years, maybe they won't blow it off this time.

Because of that, maybe it will affect his ability to do his job well. The players and coaches haven't said much in the past. You know, that was a concern. Remember early on that his outspokenness on Twitter about being a big-time Trump supporter and, you know, a super conservative that maybe that wouldn't match with the players in his locker room and maybe that would impact, you know, his ability to do his job. but we haven't heard anything from players, not publicly anyway, and we haven't really heard anything from coaches either.

We'll see if they decide this time to react differently. You know, maybe they won't say something publicly, but maybe it'll be their actions towards him that really is all that needs to be said. Of course, that assumes that they disagree with him and are emotional in their disagreement with him. I guess for me the bottom line would be I respect completely his right to speak freely on things that he's passionate about, whether I agree or disagree with him.

But given his profession and job responsibility, I think he really lacks in self-awareness for being this outspoken on these issues publicly. You know, I don't know if these are issues he brings up in private. I'm talking about professionally in private, but I just think as a high-level coach, as the defensive coordinator for an NFL team, a team that's trying to move away from being this daily controversial shit show, that it just shows bad judgment on his part and makes him look foolish. This organization doesn't need another side show right now, and Jack Del Rio has become one.

I think it's selfish on his part, and I think it's dumb. Up next, Jeff Zabrick, he covers the Ravens. We'll get into this interesting Lamar Jackson contract situation. We'll do so right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, a little bit of a shift from Washington Commanders talk to the team up the road, the Baltimore Ravens. No, we're not going to turn this show into a Ravens show. But I actually think one of the real interesting NFL stories right now

is Lamar Jackson playing on this fifth year option and him negotiating a potential contract extension on his own and whether or not that will lead to a contract extension. So here to talk about that, maybe some Ravens and maybe some NFC North, is Jeff Zrebeck. Jeff covers the team for the athletic, as I tell everybody. I'm a subscriber to the athletic. You should be as well.

It's totally worthwhile. You know, guys like Ben Standing and Jeff Zrebeck do such a good job at covering all the teams in the league. You can follow Jeff on Twitter at Jeff Z-R-E-B-I-E-C. So, Jeff, what's going on with the Lamar Jackson Ravens Contract Extension or not situation? Just give everybody, you know, a minute or two on. on where we are on this thing and whether or not you think something will get done. Sure. You know, it is.

It's a bizarre situation. I mean, the coach version is Lamar Jackson has stayed away from the facility. In fact, I believe he hasn't been at the Ravens facility since the last game of last season. He stayed away all off season. Ravens officials are saying that he's let it be known to the team that he's just not, He doesn't think this is the time to negotiate a contract. Now, they're ready to pay him a lot of money, and their contention is that he's on other things right now. He just doesn't want to negotiate a contract right now.

And what that reason may be, it's hard to say. You know, Lamar Jackson hasn't spoken a lot about the media about this. He's several opportunities. He's talked about how he wants to be in Baltimore. this is where he's going to be. But, you know, when it's come down to talking about a contract extension, he hasn't been very willing to do it at this point. So they seem to be resigned to him playing out this year under the 50-year option

and then trying again next off-season where the franchise tag will obviously come into play. But it's interesting. The way the Ravens tell it, and they've been very clear about this, and they're dealing directly with Lamar Jackson, and so I'm sure they're conscious of not alienating their franchise quarterback, but the way they tell it is they're ready to go, and he's just not at this point, and they respect his stance. Why don't you think he's ready to negotiate a contract extension?

You know what, Kevin, I'd have to think, you know, they talked early in the process, and I had to think where the Ravens are with their initial offer when they started talking about this stuff was not even in the stratosphere, year, and he kind of just said, look, if this is what it's going to be, you know, I'm not, I'll, I'll be franchised. You know, I'll be franchised next year and I'll worry about it. I'll bet on myself and we'll go from there. But, you know, I'd have to think when they had their initial conversation, there was a little

bit of a difference of opinion there. I mean, they've said all sorts of things. You know, they've said that he's focused. He feels like he's not worthy of one until he, you know, until he has playoff success and leads them where they want to go as an organization. I'm not necessarily buying that. He's a confident guy, and he's done a lot for the football team. They've talked about how he's just focused on improving in his own game,

and he's just really, you know, he's not motivated by money. And, you know, I'm sure there's some truth to all those things. But until Lamar, and he doesn't have an agent, so he's very, there's a very closed, you know, there's not a lot of information coming from his side that you can really trust. I mean, people speculating what his motives are, but nobody really knows but him, you know, and the few people who are advising him. So it's hard to say, but, you know, he's been very clear. Anytime someone suggested this is a sign that he's ready to get out of Baltimore,

he shot him down and got on the offensive a little bit. So if not that, then it's kind of, you know, it's kind of interesting that he's not willing. And even him not showing up all off season, that's his priority. I mean, this isn't mandatory. But if he's not ready to talk contract, and he's the one not wanting to talk it, and then he's holding out, not holding out, but I mean staying away for the team facility

for the voluntary stuff, if that's contract related. It's tough to marry the two together. It just doesn't quite make sense if that's the stand. Yeah, the whole thing is a little bit bizarre. Real quickly, did he attend off-season voluntary OTAs last year and the year before? I mean, has he been a right?

for those? Is this the first year that he's been absent? Yes, he's gone to OTAs in the past and taken part and all the voluntary stuff. What does everybody make of Lamar Jackson doesn't have an agent? What's the reaction to that? You know, from you, from the team, you know, is this something that's hurting him right now? I think it is, and I think it's hurting him for a while. I mean, you know, you. know, when it's tough, you know, when you don't have somebody, first of all, it just makes negotiations tougher. I mean, we're talking about, and I'm not saying, and I'm sure he has people in his corner and advisor and sort of people advising him, and that's all well and good, but

Eric Acosta, their GM has been clear that he's, when he, they've called contract, he's done it directly with Lamar. I mean, these are very, you know, these, you know, contract negotiations with the stakes on the line can get kind of nasty at times. I mean, you know, and it's not hard to offend the other side. And what the agent does is the agent kind of filters some of that stuff and protects the team and the client from, you know, things getting kind of ugly and hearing things that he probably shouldn't hear. I mean, that's kind of an agent's job.

But you have to kind of walk on eggshells when you negotiate a deal directly with a player. You have to be careful of everything you say. You have to make sure, you know, with all the offers that, you know, there's nothing, you know, it's just all part of the negotiations. These are tough negotiations, and that he's doing it directly with GM. It's just interesting. It certainly adds to the challenge of getting a deal done. I mean, but I think, look, ever since, you know, he's gone in the NFL, Lamar has done things his way.

You know, he trusts his people that are around him, and he sort of doesn't listen to, you know, what other people think he should be doing. He sort of marches the beat of his own drum, and, you know, it's gotten him a unanimous MVP, but here's the next step. And, you know, this is big business. This is, you know, this goes wrong. You know, this is a potential franchise altering thing.

And, you know, I think it would make sense for an agent to be involved, but Lamar apparently does not feel that way. Look, I mean, that organization, and, you know, it's 35 miles to the north from ours, and there are a lot of people down here that aren't Ravens fans and vice versa. But I've said this for many years. I mean, they're an organization that you've got to really respect. I mean, they've got a real owner and Steve Boshadie. They had Ozzy Newsom there for years.

They've got Eric Dacosta. And so on one level, it's like if Lamar Jackson were playing in this organization, and I'm talking really pre-Ran Rivera and, you know, Marty Herney and Martin Mayhew, I mean, this organization would have taken advantage of the situation. On some level, business is business, but I kind of feel like, and tell me if you feel the same thing, that in these negotiations, DeCosta probably is trying to help Lamar out. Like, I don't see them, you know, ripping them off and taking advantage of, you know, his inexperience in something like that. Yeah, and that's a great point, Kevin, because, you know, the Ravens are sort of in a no-win situation here.

You can't just write a blank check. You just can't do it. You know, as I said, these deals impact everything. The way you build your roster around the deal, I mean, you get saddled with a bad deal, and you just give in on everything. That puts you in bad situation going forward and affects your ability to build a championship team around your franchise quarterback. But you also, you know, if their perception is out there that you're taking advantage of your franchise

quarterback who's, you know, very popular guy around the league. That's also not good. I mean, that'll affect everything. That'll affect, you know, other players' willingness to sign with you and just your reputation around the league. That's why, as I said, it's such a tough situation for the Ravens to be in. And publicly, you know, they're very supportive of Lamar Jackson. They've been from day one. They've made it clear that he's their guy. They've built an offense around him. but I'm sure behind closed doors they wish wasn't going down like this. I'm sure it's made everything a lot more difficult to kind of navigate.

You know, the other part of this story, which is such an interesting part of the story, I mean, you've taken us through kind of the state of the contract situation and Jackson, you know, representing himself. But what's really unique about Lamar Jackson in this situation is his style of pleasure. And the truth is on some level, right, that it might be beneficial for the Ravens to let him play this fifth year option and then to franchise him for a couple of years rather than sign him to, you know, a deal that could, you know, come into the or reach the $35 to $40 million per year range. I mean, you know, he plays in such a way that you wonder how long he can play this way. Well, there's no doubt, and it's not, you know, it's not a popular, you know, Lamar Jackson's still a pretty polar. You know, he's the face of the franchise and people love him.

I'm not trying to claim there's not a lot of support. But there's some people, you know, who are on the other end of the fence who just aren't believers yet. But, and they don't, you know, the people who are all pro-Lamar and don't want to hear anything else, they don't want to hear this. But I agree. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world that they're not signing him to a contract. extension this off season. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world that they want to see more. And this is me speaking. The Ravens are clearly ready to do it. I'm just saying extra time sometimes gives you, you know, can be advantageous to evaluate. I mean, this is a

unique offense they run around Lamar Jackson that nobody else in the league is running. And is it going to get them to Super Bowl? Can you get to a Super Bowl this way? They were 14 and 2 in 2019, and they tanked in the playoffs in the divisional round. They come back in 2020, win a playoff game, then get eliminated. Lamar Jackson has not played particularly well in the playoffs. When teams have taken away what they do best, they've struggled to win in the playoffs. So is it the worst thing in the world that the Ravens could see more this year? I mean, look, Jackson was a quarterback.

He struggled to stay healthy all last year. Now, he's been very durable. you know, a couple years in the NFL. But last year was a year he was sick a lot. He missed a ton of practices. Then I think it was the last five or six games he missed with the bone bruise in his ankle foot area. You know, what happens this year if that trend sort of continues?

And he misses a lot more time. At the end of the year, the Ravens may be real happy that they didn't make a huge deal. I mean, I think people don't want to hear this, but I don't have a problem with if the Ravens' stances, we want to see more. You know, not just from Lamar. This isn't just on Lamar. This is about their offense as a whole. Can we win with this offense? Is Greg Roman, the right coordinator

to get us to where we want to go and win a Super Bowl? And can we win playing this style? And so far, the one thing you could say about Lamar Jackson, he's been brilliant for the most part in the regular season. And he and the rest of the team, it's not just on him, but he and the rest of the team has struggled in the postseason.

And the Ravens, you know, don't do this. to just make the playoff. That's all well and good, but, you know, they want to win a Super Bowl again. And, you know, you have to decide if the way they're playing and the style they're playing can get them to that point. That's why I think another year of this isn't necessarily the worst thing. You know, if you have to franchise them next year, you have to franchise them. I mean, you're going to be paying them a big cap number either way. So I don't think it's necessarily the worst thing in the world to get another year where they can evaluate,

not just Lamar Jackson, but the direction of where they're going to. offense is at it. So just out of curiosity, is Tyler Huntley still on the roster? Is he still the backup? Yes, Tyler Huntley is the backup. And they brought Brett Huntley too, which is going to make it miserable in our daily camp reports distinguished between Huntley and Huntley. But yeah.

Because I thought, Hunley's just a. Yeah. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, I thought Huntley, you know, playing when Lamar was out last year, I thought he had some pretty good games. I mean, like, I thought he proved that, you know, he's very much a backup in this league and in the right style of offense, which is that one can be pretty damn effective as a starter. Yeah, yeah, I think he put them in, you know, they played a lot of good teams down the stretch.

They did. And they played the Rams down the stretch, and they played the, you know, the Packers down the stretch. And with Huntley, they were in position to win just about every game. They got their doors blown off by Cincinnati down the stretch, but Huntley, wasn't he didn't play that game he was on the COVID list so yeah he showed himself well considering um and and it's a you know look it's a good benefit to have a rookie or a backup quarterback who can win you games and you don't have to change the offense he can run you know he's not as athletic as lamar jackson but he can do a lot of similar things that Lamar can do to have that guy in his rookie

contract where you're not paying big bucks to a backup quarterback uh that's a good situation they have there right now. And look, he's getting a ton of reps this offseason with Lamar not in the building. So, you know, theoretically, his game should be improving too. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of why they had RG3 there because he could play the same style of offense as Lamar Jackson. So just a couple of quick questions about the team. You know, your first round pick was a guy that I really wanted Washington to select at 11 overall. They ended up trading back. But taking Kyle Hamilton at Notre Dame, What's the early word through these, you know, off-season activities on Hamilton?

Yeah, he looks as advertised. It was an interesting pick, but kind of a typical Raven's best player available pick where safety was not in need, but it just got to the point with where they got him. I was like, look, this guy shouldn't still be here. He's too good of a football player to still be on the board at 14. So it kind of became a no-brainer decision. And, you know, he really looks apart. You know, you can't tell a whole lot, and he's non-contact OTAs and stuff, but he just moves

very well. He's a very fluid mover. He doesn't seem to be overwhelmed by anything. He's communicating already back there. He seems to be in the right place, the right time. And he's just one of these guys that, even in rookie minicamp, you could pick him out and you could say, okay, that guy looks like he belongs. And that's what you could say about Kyle Hamilton.

It'll be interesting how they use them because they also spent big money. on Marcus Williams, the Saints Free Safety. They're building this team from the back end of their defense like they usually do defensively. And I imagine Hamilton will be a big part of it, but they'll have the ability to move him around. I think you'll see him play some dime linebacker. I think you'll see him play in the slot. I think you'll see him play some deep safety. He's a really good fit and his versatility for what they want to do defensively.

I think the Ravens had a really good draft personally, as much as you can evaluate it, you know, in the moment. Are you surprised that it didn't work out for Hollywood Brown in Baltimore? A little bit. Just look, this offense is sort of being a graveyard for receiver. And, you know, it's not for everybody. And that's why we've seen, you know, they drafted six receivers. They didn't draft one this past draft. But in the three previous draft, they drafted six receivers.

And, you know, that was a nod just to the fact that, look, we're not going to get veteran accomplished free agents to sign here. Nobody's going to, no veteran free agent is going to want to come and play in this kind of offense. You know, none of the top guys that have options, I should say. So it's not an easy offense to play, and he was getting closer. He was getting closer to needing a contract and a contract extension, and he was seen his numbers weren't as high as he wanted. And he wanted to go to a team that was more conducive to being able to put up,

make more big plays, do less blocking, and have more chances in a wide open passing game. So I get it, you know, to an extent. But, I mean, I think he ranked like 10th in the league in targets last year. So it's not like he was getting neglected in Baltimore. It's just he wants more of a wide open offense where they take shots down the field, you know. But this offense has definitely spurred some frustration over the years. And it's not just here with Greg Roman, wherever he's been, and it's not really been very conducive to receivers having big years.

But the one thing I was surprised at is, I mean, this guy is Lamar Jackson's best friend. You know, you're already dealing with a contract situation with Lamar Jackson. And, you know, that's also gotten tricky. And now you're, you know, you're trading his best friend to another team and his best friend wanted out rather than continue to play in this offense with Lamar. So that dynamic made it a little bit of an interesting situation. But, you know, not to pray in the past. We've seen, you know, Marquise kind of sound off on Twitter about not getting the ball enough.

So he kind of had that tendency in him. So I guess I'm not completely shocked. But with what's going on with Lamar made it kind of, you know, a little surprising. All right. Last one. Last year was a weird year. You guys, I mean, it seemed like any running back that suited up was going to be, you know, injured for the season, starting in preseason.

And yet, you know, at one point the Ravens were eight and three last year. obviously Jackson missed a lot of games down the stretch, and it was an eight and nine season, and you saw a team in the division end up getting to the Super Bowl and not the one that probably anybody anticipated before the year started. So what kind of year do you think the Ravens are going to have, you know, assuming relative health, because that wasn't the situation last year, and where do you put him in the AFC North? Yeah, the tricky thing, Kevin, is all those guys that missed all year, year are kind of, I don't want to say,

it's going to be questionable for this year because most of them are going to have a full year, but we haven't seen any on the field and likely we won't see him at the beginning of training camp. I mean, we're talking eight to ten guys. I mean, we're talking, their two top running backs, Dobbins and Gus Edwards, and we're talking, you know, Ronnie Stanley, they're all pro left tackle. We're talking Marcus Peters, their pro bowl corner, just so many key players who probably aren't going to be on the field of day one training camp.

And that makes this all interesting, add in the Lamar Jackson effect with him missing time and what are you going to get? He's going to have more pressure on him this year and probably any NFL. I mean, in terms of the scrutiny and stuff. So it makes it tough a little call and to see how all these variables will work out. But I think they have a talented team. Ravens usually bounce back when they have a bad year. I agree with you.

I think they had a good draft. I think they've added some pieces in pre-agency. I think it's a playoff team. You know, I do, but I think, you know, Bengals deserve to be the team in the number one team going into the season in terms of the AFC North. I think they crushed the Ravens twice last year. So they deserve the distinction of being the preseason number one there.

And I think the Ravens, assuming relative good health, will be right there in the number two, I mean, until you see what happens with Watson and Cleveland, how long of the suspension he gets. And there's always seems to be something going wrong in Cleveland, even if it's not involving that situation. So, you know, it kind of paused there. And, you know, with the Steelers quarterback situation, I think they'll be competitive. Mike Tomlin always has them competitive. But I just haven't seen enough of Mitch Trubrisky, Mason Rudolph, and, you know, obviously picket, the rookie.

So I don't know what kind of quarterback play they're going to get enough to suggest they're going to be battling for the top spot. So I would put Ravens at the number two spot as of now. I lied. I've got one more for you. Do you guys follow? Do you care up there about the constant, you know, constant, you know, news storylines coming out of the franchise here, you know, whether it's congressional investigations or stadium funding or, you know, I'm just curious as to what kind of level of attention you pay to it. Personally, I kind of chuckle because, you know,

I think there's a quote from the Ravens' new president, Sashi Brown, in the Washington Post and Adam Kilgore's story about how, you know, they're not really consumed with the move or their stadium thing and the Ravens don't really affect them. I'm not buying that for a second. If you don't, you know, I would be highly skeptical that they're not seen. this as an opportunity if the, excuse me, if the commanders move. So from their perspective, I think they're paying attention every bit of it.

I'm just interested in it from a perspective of, you know, kind of the train wreck theory. Just, you know, it's interesting, like, what could go wrong next? How's all this getting resolved? And, you know, I talked to Ben Sandig a lot about it and just kind of challenges he has with all this stuff going on. So, you know, they're always going to get, you know, some Raven fans that don't like Washington. You know, I think there's less of that going on. You know, I think it's funny when people try to drum it up as a rivalry.

I think for the most part, I don't know how much Washington fans care about Baltimore, and I don't think Baltimore cares a ton about what's going on in Washington, but they're always going on in Washington's misery there a little bit with the commander. So I've heard it. It's a little bit of this talk around here, but I don't think it's anything that sort of dominates the conversation. Me personally, I'm sort of interested to see how it all gets resolved. Yeah, I think the whole rivalry thing's always laughable.

I mean, you don't have, in the NFL, your rivals are the teams you play every year, twice a year. And occasionally, you'll have a rival, like the 49ers and Cowboys there for that stretch. You know, the Colts and the Patriots when it was Peyton. and Brady within a conference maybe, but no, when you play a team once every four years, there's no rivalry there's no rivalry there's much of a rivalry between the Nats and the Orioles either. You know, they're in separate leagues. It's really, you've got to meet for some big games before the start to meet rivalry.

Of course. You know, like there's been some relative, there's been a couple of regular season, Washington, Ravens games that have had some meeting, but they're just, they have. haven't met in big games. Until they start doing, yeah, I don't see it at all. Look, I think you can still make the argument that in an era where there aren't really intense rivalries anymore in the NFL, that the number one rivalry in the league is still Steelers Ravens, like in terms of the active current last, you know, two decades rivalry.

I mean, name one that's bigger and more important twice a year to the fan bases and to the teams than Steelers Ravens. Tough to come up with. Yeah, no, I agree with you. And, you know, yeah, it's waned a little bit, but it's waned a little bit because, you know, a lot of the guys that made up the rivalry have moved on. Like, you know, the faces of the rivalry,

the Ray Lewis's and the Terrell Suggs and the Ben Ruffelburgers and, you know, some of the Heinz wards and all those guys have kind of moved on. So you're kind of in a different phase of the rivalry. But they meet twice a year every year. it's always the biggest game for the respective fan bases. They don't like each other, but there's a respect there that makes it kind of, I think that adds to the rivalry. There's usually not a whole lot of cheap stuff that goes on in these games.

They're just really hard-hitting games that always come down to the end, it seems like, regardless of what the respective teams' records are. So, yeah, I think it was interesting. Neither Raven Steelers game was picked up by, you know, a prime time. is very rare. Very rare. Yeah, this year. Yeah, most of those games are at least one of them seasons on prime time. So I guess the perception is it's waning a little bit, but those still are the funnest two games a year to cover for me. I know that much. So I don't think the rivalry is waning too much when it comes to the fans viewpoint. Yeah. Jeff, thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. The Jackson stuff, I think, is really fascinating for NFL fans everywhere.

Yeah, it'll make it interesting. When he reports, it's obviously going to be a story. And one thing I neglected to say, haven't, you know, not just, I don't want to short Lamar Jackson, you know, by all accounts, he's having a really good off-season. I mean, he's worked with his receivers at different places. His receivers have come together to work with them. You know, I know, you know, a lot of these guys like to put out their workout videos, and he's put them out at this off-season.

His trainer has been kind of vocal about all the work he's put in. He spent a lot of time with his personal quarterback coach. coach, by all accounts, the Raven should be pretty happy with how he's got about preparing for the season. But there's no question. By staying away from the building as long as he has, he's going to be highly scrutinized. And if he gets off to a close start, you're going to hear the, well, maybe he should have spent more time around the building. But, you know, Lamar always enters the season with kind of a bull's eye on his back. So I don't think he's overly concerned with that.

He never seems to be overly concerned with anything. he's quite a player and fun to watch. Jeff, I really appreciate it. Take care. You too, Kevin. Thank you. 44 years ago today, Washington woke up with an NBA championship team in town. It's the only one we've ever had. The Washington Bullets on June 7, 1978, won the NBA championship. Kevin Grevy was a part of that team. He will be my guest next, right after these words, from a few of our sponsors. So we're coming down to this, a cliffhanger. They give it to Dennis Johnson.

He'll spin the left side to the corner. Long jumper off the back of the rim. Until the long rebound, shuffles the downreach. The bullets are going to win for the first time in 46 years. Washington, D.C. has a major sports. Forty-four years ago last night, that was the lone Washington Bullets slash Washington Wizards NBA title. They beat the Sonics in game seven at Seattle Center Coliseum.

I can remember being about as excited as I've ever been as a sports fan. I mean, a lot of the Redskin titles were phenomenal and they were great, and they probably stand alone for me. Maryland basketball is probably two, but that Bullets Championship in 1978 was right there. And Kevin Grevy was the starting shooting guard on that team with Tommy Henderson in the back court and West. Elvin and Bobby Dandrich in the starting lineup.

And he's joining me right now. I have not talked to you in a while. How have you been? I know you're doing scouting work in Charlotte for the Hornets after being with Mitch Cupchak for all those years in L.A. with the Lakers. How have you been? How are you feeling these days?

Kevin, I couldn't feel better. I'm 69 years old, turned 69, May 12th. And, you know, I still still, you know, played tennis. golf, feel good. I live here in Great Falls, Virginia here locally. Have a small little horse farm. That keeps me in shape, keeps me busy. So all as well. I feel really good. Thanks, Kevin. You know, remembering you very much as a player, I would imagine that you are an excellent tennis player and an excellent golfer. Am I right?

I never feel like I'm good enough, you know. That's kind of the way I was. as a basketball player. I want more from what I do. But unfortunately, knees back and, you know, a lot of orthopedic stuff, arthritis is keeping me from practicing as much as I like. But, yeah, I'd like to think I can hold my own in tennis and golf. Were you a better, are you a better tennis? And look, at 69, it's incredible that you're still as active as you are, and hopefully

you've got another, you know, 20 years of being this active. My father's 84. He just had his ninth hole in one six months ago, which is incredible. And even from the senior T's is still playing at like an 11 or 12 handicap. So I'm thrilled for him. He's a much better golfer than I am. But when you were really competitive after your basketball career, which sport were you better at?

Tennis or golf? Probably tennis because tennis is something I've done all my life. It was actually the first sport I played. My mother was a good tennis player as my dad. And so we played family tennis on vacations, and it was very competitive, and I wanted to beat my mom and my dad. That was who I had the bullseye on when I was a kid, and it was tennis that brought our family together as well as all sports.

I mean, we were an athletic family. So I just learned at a young age how to play tennis. golf was more of a sport I picked up later in life after I finished my bullet career. I started playing a little golf, but I've caught up to it. And I like to practice. I love hitting balls. And I like going on the court and working cross courts with another good player and hitting groundstroke. So it's just something that is part of my schedule, weekly schedule, those two sports.

What's the lowest your handicaps ever been in golf? A five is the lowest, and I'm about an eight right now, and I'm trying to get back to a five. Yeah. And tennis, I was a five-o-tennis. You were a five-oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, I played in the USA amateur grass courts and hard court with my pro here at River Bend Country Club. And that's as high as level as I got tennis.

But anyway, you know, you don't do the things that you used to do the same way, so you have to compromise, like a pitcher who's through 90 miles an hour, and he lost a speedball. Well, now you've got to, you know, pick your spots at the plate and throw junk, and that's what I do on the tennis court, and that's what I do on the golf court. Don't hit it as far, but, you know, you manufacture a way around. around the course. Well, I can imagine, I mean, remembering you as a player, you had great hands, you were a great shooter, and all of that kind of stuff totally translates. I've always felt,

and I don't know if you feel the same way, that basketball players are the best all-around athletes. I know soccer players are tremendous athletes, and the skill, you know, is incredible. But, you know, you were 6566, you know, and you, you know, the coordination in the hand eye required to play basketball, you know, at certain levels makes it easier to sort of adapt to other sports. Well, there's no question, you know, a big part of basketball is you've got to, you know, it's fast, and there's a lot of people, there's a lot of traffic. And you have to see it before it happens a little bit. probably the greatest that was Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.

But, you know, before the player even gets open, you've got to be aware of where the action is. And so seeing the court has helped me on tennis, seeing angles, scouting that player that you're playing against, seeing tendencies, you know, if he's going to hit a slice or a flat, the way he moves his hand on the racket, those little subtle things. you picked up just naturally when you play basketball. And so they all have a lot of similarities in some ways. Golf, on the other hand, is more of a mental game like any sport. There's a mental part of the game where golf really accentuates that. And, you know, if you lose your confidence or you don't like hitting a certain shot, it gets in your head. and I have felt the pressure in tennis and golf more than I ever felt pressure in basketball

because basketball was just a way of life from a little boy all the way through and even in game seven, you know, a big basketball game, I never, yes, I felt the butterflies I would be nervous before the game. But once the game starts, there was never an incident that I felt like, oh God, what I'm I'm doing here or go to the free throw line and choke up a free throw. I never felt pressure in basketball, but damn, if I got a three-foot putt to win that senior club championship, I feel the pressure. That drives me nuts. I'm like, why am I feeling pressure in tennis and golf? I never felt that basketball, but it's weird. Part of that, too, is that you can get out those nerves

more physically in a sport like basketball than you can in golf. And you know, you were talking about it. And I've always felt like golf is, look, if you were a tremendous athlete, you're going to have an advantage in golf, but it's also a learned skill as much as it is an athletic feat. And those that started younger and developed like a golf swing when they were, you know, truly young tend to be the people that are really good at golf today. Anyway, enough about that.

although I am interested because I always, I figured, you know, you were a tremendous all-run athlete. And look, the pressure for you, you went to Kentucky for crying out loud. You know, you played, many people may not know this about you, but I remember this. You played in John Wooden's final game, the NCAA title game in 1975. You were on the floor. You played very well in that championship game, that NCAA tournament championship game, which turned out to be wooden, his final NCAA championship game and his final game. What do you remember from that night?

Well, I remembered that it was in San Diego. It wasn't even a sellout, if you can believe that, Kevin. Wow. It was in the middle of the afternoon on a Monday. My dad had about eight tickets, and he sent my little brother out to sell him, couldn't sell him. You know, it was very strange. But we had beaten Indiana in the Mideast Regional Final. We were the favorite going into that Final Four.

In that Final Four was Louisville, Kentucky, UCLA, and Syracuse. We played Syracuse on that Saturday before Championship Monday and watched UCLA and Louisville go to all. overtime and we were all in there rooting for Louisville. We wanted a Kentucky Louisville final. We shouldn't even have been in the building. We should have gone back and focused just on our jobs, but we got invested in that game and we're a little deflated. Now we play UCLA, but we thought, well, UCLA is not as good as Louisville. So we shouldn't have any problem. But then on Easter Sunday, John Bloom announced his retirement. And it kind of took the

the air out of the sale for us. Now we're in San Diego, UCLA's backyard against John Wooten is fighting for a championship as dense. And the whole storyline was John Wooten. It wasn't Kentucky anymore,

beating undefeated Indiana. Bobby Knight's maybe best team ever. It became all about John Wooten. And not to say that it changed anything, but it certainly turned a flavor towards UCLA.

And even though I had 34 points, it wasn't one of my best games. I had a lot of points because I saw my teammates fumbling the ball and Rick Robey, who was a terrific center for us, was missing layups. Jack Givens wasn't himself coming off the bench. He was a terrific six-man.

And so then I just started rifling. up shots. I learned a big lesson from that game. It was a horrible loss. It's one that still bothers me to this day. But I always felt like we would have never won game seven. That's just my own personal feeling. If we all didn't have that same desire to win at any cost, we are not going to suffer through another loss. West Sunseld, he would, was on two championships before that 78 championship. And they got swept by Golden State Warriors and got swept by Milwaukee. You think he didn't want to win?

And Elvin Hayes had that same feeling. And Bobby Dandridge, and so I myself had that same feel. I am not going to get this far and not feel the victory, feel the championship. I said prayers, got on my knees. did everything I could to not suffer another humiliating loss after going that far. And, man, it is a gift that keeps on giving. And, you know, when you play that lead into this interview, and when I go online and I read about that bullet steam, it still just gives me so much joy.

Well, you know, one of the greatest things that ever happened to me personally. Let's get to that. and then I want to get your thoughts on these NBA finals that are going on right now. By the way, you had 34 in that championship game, as you mentioned. You were 13 of 30. I'm just curious because many people don't know this. Kevin Grevy played on the opening night of the NBA season in 1979. This would have been after the bullets lost the title to the Sonics

when the three-point shot was first made and implemented in the NBA. And either you or Chris Ford had the first three-pointer ever made in the NBA. Ford gets credit for it, but there are people that believe that actually your three-pointer in a game that started a few minutes after their game actually came before his. But anyway, how many of those shots in that NCAA tournament game would have been three-pointers today? Because you were a bomber, always, right? Yeah, I felt very comfortable from distance shooting the ball. And that was back in that era when I was playing college and early in my NBA career, it was all about getting as close as you can to that basket.

When I say traffic, I mean, it was condensed, 10 players sometimes all in the paint, you know, battling. It was a battle of physical force, centers par forward. Those were the guys who you tried to get the ball to and get as close to the basket as you could get. but I always loved shooting long distance. You know, I have freedom of movement out there, and I worked on that long distance shot from a little kid on, and so shooting a 20, 25-footer was kind of in my wheelhouse. Now, that's not a shot that Dick Mott wanted me taking a lot of

because our first priority was to get it to West, Elvin, Bobby D, or get it to great, Valor or Mitch Cup check coming off the bench. But they also knew

that I was pretty good shooter out there and if they got double teamed or got where they were in a

problem, boy, that ball would kick out and I had time to be set and I could make

50, 60 percent of those wide open shots with these. All right, let's talk about that

title team and that night, 44 years ago last night. You know, um, it was

was an unexpected run through the postseason. You know, you guys had gone 43 and 38 during the regular season, or 44 to 38 during the regular season. We're not expected to make the run. The Sixers were the big time favorite, as we remember with, you know, Dr. Jay and, you know, World Be Free and Daryl Dawkins and that whole crew that they had coming off the previous year's NBA finals loss to Portland. You know, it was a weird kind of thing. Back then they had the mini-series, the best two out of three, and you guys got by Atlanta. And then you were the underdog against, you know, George Gervin and the Spurs in that next series before facing the Sixers. Before the Seattle series, like at what point do you remember you guys thinking, hey, we can make a run here? You know, we're not the favorites by a long shot, but we got a shot to make a run. Kevin, I think we all, to a man, felt like we had a chance to win the championship before the playoffs even started. The reason we had such a average regular season record was injuries, yeah.

Had a big part of that. Wes was getting older. His knees were swelling up. There was no such thing as load management back then. but Wes did take practices off. He did take some games. He would play the game, but then he would sit himself. Elvin Hayes, who was just an amazing athlete, only missed, I think.

And Kevin, you can check this. It's not a lot of games. He had a 15-year career. I think it was eight. That's unbelievable. Even he was, you know, tiring out a little bit. and Mitch had the bad back and Bobby Danjury's having nerve problem with his knee

so he missed a lot of games too well anyway we all came together and at Bowie State College it was West Sunset or captain said listen we're all healthy now let's don't do anything I don't want anybody going to Georgetown getting the Georgetown flu I remember looking at me in other words this don't self-inflict ourselves

with heavy drinking or partying. We're going to dedicate our next six, eight weeks to this family right here. And we, you know, took care of Atlanta, as you said, we were underdogs all the way through. We felt like underdogs. And that's not a bad approach. You don't feel the pressure as much when you just let it roll. And those favorites, they deserve to be because of the great teams at San Antonio Philadelphia and Seattle brought to the table. But we felt like we were stronger, more physical. We were the healthier bunch at this point.

Dick Mott was a great leader. Bob Ferry was a terrific general manager putting together that team and that bench, bringing in Charlie Johnson in the middle of the year. It was unbelievable. When we were down to seven men flying in, Charlie's signing him, and he played the last 30 games of the season. He was a big factor in that game seven. I think he had 19 points in that game seven.

So everybody played a big part in that and had to if we were going to upset those teams. You had, by the way, in the very first round, the mini-series, best two out of three for those that don't remember that way, you had the top two seeds that automatically advanced to the conference semifinals, and then another four teams played best two out of three. three to advance to the conference semifinals. And that's where the bullets were. You had 41 in game two against the Hawks on the road to eliminate the Hawks. And then you guys beat the Spurs in six.

I remember the one game where the Spurs lost their uniforms and had to wear your guys' road uniforms inside out? And then he played the 76ers and finished off them in what wasn't upset. And then you get to Seattle. And Seattle's there as a surprise team. Washington's there as a surprise team. Refresh my memory. Phil Schneer was banged up with a back injury. He was starting to feel the wear and tear of that lower back injury, which really finished him off and his career.

And you stepped in and you were a big time score, you know, taking Phil's spot from previous years. But weren't you hurt as well going into those NBA finals or not? Oh, God, yeah. but I was not going to sit out. Stan Levine and his needle in Nova King kept me on the floor. I had hamstring injuries and a lot of muscle, growing injury, my knees were swelling.

It's just, you know, I was feeling it. But I did sustain an injury. Two bad injuries. I probably would have never played in the regular season, but finished the playoffs. I hyper-extended my left wrist, shooting hand ran into a Jack Sigma pick, and tore the tendon in my left hand. So I had to finish the last three games of that seven-game series getting injections into my left wrist. And I also sprained my ankle right before overtime game one.

In fact, when this June 7th approaches, thank you for reminding me, but I rarely miss this time of year without going back, Googling games and stuff. And I totally forgot I didn't play in the overtime game one and sprained my ankle really bad. And fortunately, we had a few days rest before we had to fly back to Washington. It was a weird series, by the way. Game one was at Seattle, and there was a conflict with the arena and the Coliseum in Seattle. So the first game was played at Seattle, then two at home, then two back in Seattle, then one, one. It was so much flying, traveling, but it gave us, it was like it took 23 days, I think, to play that.

Yeah, it did. Right. And I need it every one of those days. So you guys lost game one out there. Freddie Downtown Brown had a big game for them. Then you came home and you had the two games. So it was one, two, two, and then one-one. It was an odd setup because of that building not being available. And then, by the way, you ended up playing in the Kingdom in, I think, one of those games, although that may have been the, No, game four, the overtime game was the Kingdom game. And you guys won that one to even it up.

Game six when you were down three, two. I've mentioned this game many times. I was there as a young kid with my father. And you guys won, up until recently, I think it was the biggest margin of victory in an NBA finals game. You beat them by 35 points. And that building, I don't think people remember, the cap center could get really loud.

And I think that was the loudest it ever was that day. Do you remember that? It was like a Sunday afternoon game. Kevin, of course, I remember that. It was unbelievable. We destroyed Seattle. And we, yes, those fans were as loud as any fans in any building I ever played in. Yep.

And it just kind of sent us on to Seattle on such a confidence high. When you destroy a team like that embodied us to feel that we are better than them, we will win game seven. But to do it on the road, it only had been done once before in the history of the Celtics at Lakers. World Championship. Exactly. So, yes, there were long odds against us doing it, but you have to go back to game six in the way everybody played and played so well. And I think we sent a loud message not only to the nation in Washington, but to those guys

in that locker room in Seattle where they're like, oh, boy, we just opened up a big can now. and we're going to have to play sort of defensively. And we just, I don't think we ever lost the lead in game seven. We jumped out on them, maintained that lead. It got really close at the end, though. And it was an amazing. There were two plays I remember. Tommy Henderson diving on the floor with about a minute and a half left,

tipping the ball to Mitch Cupcheck, who scored and got an N-1. That was a huge play. And West Sunseld, is not a good free throw. His free throws to seal that win. And then I remember Bobby Dandridge, the last basket driving, the length of the court. You know, we knew we had the win. The clocks running out. He dunks the ball.

And we sprinted into that locker room, had the greatest celebration. There wasn't any champagne in the locker room. There were a lot of differences in what the day. is and then there were honican beers and we're like hey where's the champagne it was all in Seattle's locker room and uh John Lally our trainer tried to go down and buy the champagne from them

they wouldn't sell it really so yeah so we drank all those beers real quick and we got on the bus and we're telling a pole where's the champagne we want champagne so our team boss now is probably 11 o'clock at night. We're driving around downtown Seattle looking for a liquor store. We found one. Grab aib's credit card, John Lally, myself, and Greg Ballard went into the liquor store,

and we just told him, give us all the champagne you have. It was a hold up with a credit card. Yeah, I remember you. And the owner of that liquor store aren't you, aren't you the basketball team, the bullets, yes. We just won a championship. We want your champagne. And he said, well, you can have all I got. And he gave us three cases. And the party started.

And you said you got up that next morning on June 8th and was so excited and like the whole Washington fan base. We never went to bed, Kevin. We stayed up, partied all night, flew back to Dulles Airport, and we're reading with about 10 or 15,000. fans there at Dulles Airport. Oh my gosh. It was incredible. We had to go back to the Capitol Center and retrieve our cars in the parking lot. And I remember I'd been up all night, and Mitch Cupcheck was my roommate in Crofton, Maryland. He lived in one of my rooms there at the house, and I said, Mitch, we got our salmon, we got our gear. Let's listen, we're going to the White House. tomorrow we got to get some rest we've got to get to sleep so our other

roommate knew that we were coming this before cell phones or anything and we got to take the phones off the hook and we got it he's got to run interference and it's like hell you got to sleep so we rolled around the corner we pull in to our neighborhood and in front of my house was about a hundred people with banners on the house The whole neighborhood confronted us in our front yard, and we were having a block party. And I'm like, Mitch, I don't think we're getting any sleep. And so we celebrated with all of our neighbors and everybody in Crofton, Maryland.

And eventually we were able to go to sleep and then meet Jimmy Carter and go to the White House the very next day. I remember you telling this story years ago to me on the air, I think it was, about the liquor store and the champagne. But it's, thank God, he didn't treat you the way the Sonics locker room did and he sold it to you. You know, that game, you know, the Wes Unselled Free Throws that you referenced, it was a two-point game with 12 seconds to go. And Wes was a terrible free throw shooter. You know, he was like a, you know, in the 50% range. I think it may have been a three to make two, which was a weird thing that many of you who are listening to this probably don't remember. But he made two of them and they were up four and the rest is history and we haven't had one since. But that was a great one and it's just amazing how long ago it was.

I know you've got to run, but real quickly before you do, what do you make of the finals through two games and what do you think happens next? Oh, boy. I think we're headed for a seven-game series. These are two really good teams, both great defensive teams, terrific players, good benches, a lot of weapons. I just think that, you know, Golden State, with their pedigree, with their championship, usually you have to take a step. You have to lose before you eventually win. Boston, you know, with Tatum and Brown, there are not a lot of guys who did in. Markle-Sloid, they've never been to a championship. So they're going to have to probably endure a loss. I know they're not thinking that way, but that's usually the way it goes.

It's like the Bullets. I mean, we didn't win a championship. We had to lose to finally win one. I think Golden State will play out in a win this thing. but Boston isn't going to have any of that. It's going to be a tough series. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

I feel like we could do this more often and talk, you know, just regular hoops. So I'm going to reach out to you to do that more often. Good luck. I know you've got a draft coming up, and I'm sure you've got a lot of players that you've been scouting for Charlotte, who's got, I know a couple of picks after the Wizards pick in the upcoming draft. Best of luck to you with everything. I appreciate you doing this.

Love talking about the championship team. Are you kidding, Kevin, anytime. All right, take care of. All right, pal. Thanks, so. Yeah, you got it. Bye-bye. All right, that's it for the show today, back tomorrow with Tommy.