The Kevin Sheehan Show - Philly Prescription: Just Don't Lose The Game

Episode Date: January 2, 2021

Cooley and Kevin preview and pick tomorrow night's Washington-Philadelphia game. They have their keys to a win and an NFC East title along with a final score prediction. They opened with a brief discussion about last night's Ohio State win over Clemson and what Justin Fields' performance will mean to his draft status. Also Kevin's "Smell Test", Cooley's "Lock of the Week", and a word from both on their long-time Team 980 colleague Steve Czaban's decision to leave 980 after 20 years.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Four-man left. Fields has time. Wants us down, field.

It's a lobby. He's got it. A deep strike in the Buckeyes. Stretch the lead again. 56 yards. Wow. And that was last night, Ohio State and Justin Fields. Absolutely humiliating Clemson

in the second of the two semi-final games. I was rooting for that coolly because Dabo Sweeney, for me, he's just gotten to be a bit too much here in recent weeks with that Clemson team, voting Ohio State 11th in the coaches poll last week, and then trying to act afterwards as if that didn't motivate Ohio State. Ohio State had a bunch of motivating factors, but Justin Fields last night playing hurt was just phenomenal. six touchdown passes, 385 yards passing as Ohio State beat Clemson, 49 to 28.

Now we get Ohio State against Alabama in the National Championship game. That's not why we're doing a podcast today. But I wanted to start with that. We will get to Washington beats Philly. We've got a smell test. We've got a lock of the week. I also want to respond, and Cooley will respond to a couple of the Rivera comments from earlier this week about Kyle.

Allen in particular. But let me just say Cooley last night, and I know you did not watch these games, and that's fine. Justin Fields, who had a terrible Big Ten title game against Northwestern, and his stock was slipping. And Trevor Lawrence was the clear cut number one. And now, you know, based on Justin Fields, some of his games this year, he seemed to be slipping back in the quarterback thing. do you think one game where he really played the game of his career last night?

You think that that actually elevates him to the obvious number two? Some people actually last night saying, could Jacksonville take Fields instead of Lawrence? That's not going to happen. But what do you think pro scouts and pro teams, how they view like that kind of a game in a big spot like last night in the game that Fields had? Well, I think you view it in a big way because you're also looking at it with a big time defense in Clemson.

So the one game is huge for him. If he were to put together another good game against Alabama, he'll jump to two. It's hard, Kev. You're looking at a body of work over so many games. I mean, they've only played seven games this year. Yeah. So he had a bad game in game six against Northwestern. but guys have one or two bad games, and that gets overlooked to some extent,

if there's enough film out there to show the good. Before last night, Cooley, Zach Wilson, you know, committed yesterday the BYU quarterback. You know, you've got Mack Jones who had another exceptional game in the first semifinal, which was really a snoozer. You know, Notre Dame really never had a chance. You realize that pretty early on. I mean, they were a 19.5. Underdog, although it did go to 18, 18 and a half right before the game.

Trey Lance, the Nass. North Dakota State quarterback, Kyle Trask, did not have a good game but had no players to play with in that Cotton Bowl blowout loss to Oklahoma. I mean, all those Florida players opting out in that game. And Fields had had a poor game against Northwestern, and they won that game because of Trevor Sermon rushing for over 300 yards, and he had another huge game last night, 195 yards. I think what was so amazing about that game is just that Clemson gave up in that game, 640 yards. And really, Ohio State pretty much took their foot off the pedal in the fourth quarter. If they had kept it going, they could have had 800 yards of offense in that game against Clemson.

It was amazing to watch. They couldn't stop Sermon on the ground. They couldn't field through just one bomb after another and did it playing hurt. But I'm not, like, I don't love fields. Like, I don't love him as a pro prospect. He had one interception last night, which was a deflection. I thought he could have had two more. I think he is a bit of a turnover machine, and I think you have to be careful when you have all these athletes at the college level, and I know they're playing Clemson, and it was impressive, but, man, Ohio State has guys that get open, and you see him, and I know you didn't watch the game,

but there are moments where... I've seen most of the highlights. I mean, I've seen the 15-minute package of highlights. Field stares people down, I think, on occasion, but gets away with it at the college. level. There's no way I would take Fields before Lawrence. Let me get that out of the way right now. And I'm not so sure I would take Fields number two if I were the Jets or, you know, however the order shakes out. I thought he was phenomenal last night. He had one of the great college games in a big

spot you'll ever see. He really did. And he answered a lot of critics in terms of him as a college quarterback. I just think extrapolating that out to what it will be next year. Look, if you looked at Chase Young, he didn't have a sack in that semi-final loss to Clemson and people were saying, oh, that really hurt Chase Young. But if you watch

the game, you could tell he was really good in the game. I thought Justin Fields put up a heroic game and a great game statistically and otherwise, but I also thought there were a couple of moments where could have gone the other way on a couple of balls that got caught by really good play.

Like, he throws a touchdown pass to Jeremy Rucker, the tight end, who had two of them. Oh, he didn't stare that down, though, and that's why it wasn't picked. Yeah, he didn't. That thing was contested. That one was totally contested. It could have been picked. 50-50. So it could have been picked.

You know what else he did? You dialed this play out. He threw another touchdown pass to Rucker with the sprint left. Oh, shit. tight end coming back across the field like you talked about. Right. Yeah, he did. Yeah, I saw that, and I thought about you. The full split, and it's so obvious. Like, he's not throwing left. All of a sudden, turns around, no one covers the tight end. And me and you, we're going to run that five times a game in our offense. Yeah. So, the crazy thing,

go ahead. About this game is that Ohio State absolutely controlled the line of scrimmage against Clemson, which changes the quarterback's dynamic. Yeah. I mean, that changes it for the quarterback because then you get all this run-action stuff, and you get all these shots, and he made some throws down the field. And, Kev, he made some throws in the pocket down the field as well moving around. He had some really nice scrambles where he's reading things out. He looked like a big-time quarterback last night. He had one of the big-time games of recent memory.

There is no doubt about that. There was a lot of – and look, after the hit by Skalski, who got thrown out for targeting, which I got to be on. Absolute crap, because Fields is a good runner, and Skalski's just trying to make a tackle. And it's actually a pretty clean, I don't know, he leads with his head a little bit. That's the problem, though.

You can't lead with your helmet, with the crown of your helmet. But the quarterback's trying to spin at that exact moment, and maybe he is turning his head to the side, and the quarterback spins into it. I hate the rule. I hate targeting. I think, you know, if you want to call a 15-yard penalty, call the 15-yard penalty.

I would not toss guys anymore. I hate the targeting rule in college. And that is just a big-time hit, and an intimidating hit in previous years. And by the way, a potential game-changing hit because Fields, even though he was brilliant and made play after play was doing it, you know, basically compromised.

He was hurting. And it'll be interesting to see what that injury was. There's still not a lot of information about that injury and whether or not it was a rib injury, which it certainly seemed to be. But that changed things a little bit for Clemson, but Ohio State just, they had it figured out. And they were the motivated team man last night. And Davosweeney, to me, has just gotten old. I think he's a Yutz, to be honest with you.

I think he benefits from a phenomenal defensive coordinator in Venables. I think they obviously recruit their ass off. They've had great players. I think he's a good, obviously a good coach, but I've gotten sick of his routine and the Awshucks Clemson routine. I was actually rooting for Ohio State. I played Ohio State last night, plus the seven, played them on the money line. I didn't do a smell test before then. And they definitely fit the smell test, so I missed an opportunity there. But I was rooting for Ohio State to get revenge off of a great game last year and then just to shut Davos-Sweeney. up a little bit. That was kind of nice. I kind of like Ryan Day a lot. And Ohio State... I like Ryan Day a lot. And Ohio State had this game against Northwestern in the Big Ten title game that made a lot of people pause and say, do they really deserve to be there with a six and oh, record? They hadn't played many games, like a lot of teams in the Big Ten. And it just turns out that Northwestern's really good. I mean, Northwestern, you know, pummeled Auburn in that bowl game

yesterday. Northwestern's been a really good team all year long. And Ohio State ran it down their throat in the second half when it mattered. It wasn't a Fields game, that's for sure. But it was a Trey Sermon game who was, man, up to his stock. I mean, Gray Sermon could play. I mean, all these Ohio State guys can play. The tight ends are good. The Tideon Rucker is really good. Receivers can get over the top. I mean, the touchdown he throws up like 35, 14, and he gets over the top for 50. that receivers can just run. How about 524 rushing yards in two games for Trey Sermon? 29 for 331 in the Big Ten title game, and 31 for 193 last night.

Wow. Yeah, you think they don't have a pretty good offensive line as well. Yeah. They control the line of scrimmage. You're 100%. Because there were some runs. Like there was an early run that he took the house out of pistol. Frontside zone, the biggest hole you've ever.

seen front side exactly where it's designed to hit. Yeah. Like, okay. That was, that was awesome. It was. I think the thing is, is Ohio State's good. You wonder if Dabo's posturing a little bit, putting him at 11, just knowing that that's maybe the team he doesn't want to play.

Well, he was going to play him. I mean, it had already been, you know, determined that he was going to play him, and he voted him 11 anyway, which I think is just stupid. Like, why would you do that? Not 11. Of course not. not. They're not worse.

I mean, your worst case is to get them at five or six. I'll tell you what. I actually, the line is out. Alabama's a mere seven point favorite over Ohio State.

They were, you know, they opened it 19 and a half. It went to 20 at one point. It closed at 18 and a half against Notre Dame. And they are only seven against the Buckeyes.

And the total in the game is the highest in the history of this championship game, 76. And if you've watched Bama, you know you can move the ball, against them and score. And I think Ohio State will. I mean, I like Ohio State's chances. I really do. I think they've got a lot. Well, they can play defense too. I think that line will go down. Well, if it goes

down, I'm all over Ohio State, as you know, on the contrarian tip. But we get time to talk about it. I like Ohio State that game as well. I've watched Bama though. They are electric on offense. Oh, my God. So good on offense. Devante Smith is going to win the Heisman on Tuesday night. I don't think there's any doubt about it now. You know, Kyle Trask had a rough finish, and it was really sort of a Trask-Lorence situation. I think Devante Smith is easily now going to be the Heisman winner as a wide receiver. And to be honest with you, Cooley, out of all of these Bama receivers over the years, you know, Julio, Cooper, rugs, all of them, just start adding them all up.

I think Devante Smith is the best route runner I've seen. Maybe Cooper, but I think Devante Smith is going to be a phenomenal pro. I think he's going to be outstanding. They are so good at Bama with teaching those receivers' technique and how to run routes. Kamaari Cooper was amazing. The kid, Ridley, the last couple years, has been one of the best route running receivers in the NFL that I've seen. Ridley's outstanding as a route runner and was as a rookie. They're just really technical with their receivers.

versus Obama. They are very, very good. And Najee Harris, as a senior, sort of comes, it's not that he came out of nowhere necessarily, but the run that he had, if you haven't seen it, just, you know, just Google Najay Harris's run against Notre Dame yesterday. It's the best run of the year. He, I think we are near, in nearing territory of him being the number one back drafted. Travis CTN didn't do himself, you know, a lot this year. I'm assuming Harris is going to be the number one back. I could be wrong about that. I haven't looked it up recently. But Najee Harris just

had a phenomenal year and he's such such a relentless high motor, great vision, great physicality runner. That's going to be he's going to be... He's going to be...

He's going to be... Is he the number one... Is he the number one back now projected? ETN, I see, still in Harris's two. Those are the two, really. Those are the two backs. They'll probably both go in the first round.

Anyway, all right. We've got Washington beats Philadelphia. Our keys to the game right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right, tomorrow night, 820, the final game of the NFL regular season. Washington can clinch a playoff berth by beating Philadelphia. I think most of you know the situation. They win their in as NFC East champs at 7 and 9. They lose.

they're out and the winner of the Dallas Giants game would be in. We'll talk about some of the other key games and we'll have a smell test and a lock of the week coming up here shortly. But the keys to the game, you go first with your first one. I think the first key is you can't let Jalen Hertz shred you. By that, you can't let him start getting out on the run, and he can. The suit can take off. You can't let him start scrambling up the field, getting into the A-gaps, making big plays off script. You can't let Jalen hurt Shredgekev. He's a young player.

He'll take risks. He'll turn it over. If you put pressure on it, if you contain him the way this defense can contain him, if you keep everything in front of you, you'll make some of those mistakes. But if you let him start to open the game up,

start to move around, start to get out of the pocket, start to get those 10, 15, 20-yard scrambles, if not bigger scrambles, which at times we've been susceptible to. And then you start compromising what you're doing, because it hurts.

That's a problem. I mean, they're a team right now before. Look at how many dudes they're short this week. Well, they're basically, yeah, this is, they're not playing. No, Miles Sanders, no Dallas Goddard, no Derek Barnett, no Fletcher Cox, no Deshaun Jackson. Sean Bradley's out, Duke Riley's out, Jaylon Mills, the safety's out. There's a list of over 10 dudes out for the Eagles right now. So you know and I know that without Miles Sanders, they ever run the ball effectively this year.

No. they haven't been a good team. They made a point of it about a month ago to get back to running the ball with Miles Sanders. They didn't run the ball in the first game against Washington with a huge lead, and that's how Washington got back into the game in the first game of the season,

when Philly could have probably taken the game over by running the football. But I don't know if they can run the football. To me, that's the question is, can they run the football this week without Miles Sanders if it's not the quarterback? So for me, stopping Jalen Hertz from really just gashing and treading the defense, especially with some of those scrambles early, would be big. I mean, I'm just going to start with Washington wins the NFC East with a win at Philadelphia

tomorrow night if they don't lose the game. Philadelphia basically is going to let them win going into this game. It's a situation where if Washington doesn't just let Philly do what they want to do, which is lose the game, then they're going to win it. So don't let them, don't lose it. Let them lose it. Like you said, I mean, everybody's out. No, no Miles Sanders, no Fletcher Cox, no Derek Barnett, no Deshawn Jackson, no Dallas

Goddard, no Jalen Mills. And hurts Cooley, the one thing about him, he'll make plays for both teams. He has kept both teams in it. He will turn the ball over. He has six fumbles in his three starts. Now, he's only lost two of them, and he's thrown a few picks too. But he's going to fumble and he's going to give you chances to be plus two, plus three in the turnover battle. And if you're plus one or better, you win this game.

I know it's Mr. Cliche here, but Philly has no interest. This is not one of those, oh, let's spoil it. You know, this is a division game. Let's get fired up. No, they're sitting everybody. They're throwing in the towel. So the only way you lose this game is if you lose the game, they're not going to win the game.

They're not going to win it themselves. You have to totally blow it. Now, here's the problem. If you don't have Alex Smith and you've got Taylor Heineke, I mean, this is the first start for him. He might blow it. You know, you don't have Terry McLorn. If you put Stephen Sims back on punt returns, you could blow it.

So to me, it's all about don't blow it, let them blow it, get some short fields off turnovers, make a kick or two, and win the game 16 to 9 or 16 to 7 or 17 to 10, and let's get ready for Tampa next week. Because that's this, the line has predictably, and I think I mentioned this on my last podcast, I thought it would go up and it is. It's at three and a half now. Washington basically opened as a one-point dog. They're now three and a half point favorites. The odds makers understand that they'd have to go a long way to lose this game, but it would

have to be them because Philly's not going to win it. I guess your scenario of Jalen Hertz taking over game and making big play after big play and giving Philadelphia a chance, okay, but I don't see it not against this defense. I don't. Now, they've played some good defensive football teams in New Orleans and Arizona and two of his three starts. But he's a turnover machine, man. If you hit him and you get after him, there are going to be some balls on the ground. There are going to be some balls up in the air to be picked. And that's all you need.

Or one or two of those, and it should be a 17 to 10 win. No, I hear you, but let's say you don't have Alex Smith, you don't have Terry McCorn. I don't know if they have Antonio Gibson. you start Heineke. I'm not talking about Jaylen Hurts to make it play after play after play, but he starts making some of those 10-15 runs. And if it's a race to 17 or a race to 20, it might be in trouble.

You'll be able to score a little bit. Right. No, you're right. I mean, they're playing basically with no interest in winning the game, but we may have a guy quarterbacking the game that has no ability to win a game. It's possible or maybe capable of losing a game. I don't know what to expect with Heineke.

I have no idea what to expect from Heineke. And, you know, Smith practiced yesterday still being listed as questionable. It's still individual stuff, you know. But he did take practice for his practice back-to-back days now for the first time since, you know, suffering that strained calf against the 49ers a few weeks back. They held out McLaurin. They held out Gibson. You know, Rivera said Lamar Miller, who they signed two weeks ago,

could be a contributing player in the game, which sort of tells you where they think Gibson might be right now. So, yeah, I mean, is it loseable? Of course it is, but I think it's loseable if they blow it. Because I don't think Philadelphia is going to go out and take it from them. You don't think they're getting all hyped up for the no-hat games? What's the no-hack game? They're calling it the no-hat game in Philadelphia.

What does that mean? They don't know. They don't want the Washington football team to wear hats at the end of the day. Oh, oh, oh, NSE's champs. The no-hack game. Oh, got it, got it. I didn't know that. So that's Schwartz.

They called it the no-hack game. Schwartz loves to beat Washington. You know, he went school here. He's a Georgetown guy. He's not a big fan of potentially some opportunities that could have come his way from this franchise. He's got something and always has had something for Washington. And he's a hell of a coordinator. But what does he have?

Who's he going to be lining up on defense? You know, they're capable defensively, but Dallas torched them. Torched them. Arizona sort of torched them. And Martinet or Fletcher Cox. Right. It should create a huge opportunity to run the ball. Okay, well, I mean, is Gibson going to be healthy enough?

Because without Gibson, are you going to be able to run the ball? Both you and I know that McKenzie can run the ball. I think he can too. I hope to... Yeah, what's your next key? I think the next key to this game is also a key to the future. I think Heineke's got to play well. I'd play Heineke in this game if Alex isn't 100% until you had to play Alex.

I think you have a chance here to get to. to the playoffs and another week for Alex is going to be huge. I think you can beat Philadelphia with I'maic. You do? What makes you think that? It's really interesting too because Rivera came out and said this week, they asked him would you feel like your team

blew it? There's a blown opportunity if you didn't make the playoffs. And it was interesting because Rivera said it's house money. Yeah. I just want our guys to understand we came a long way. Despite everything that happened in 2020, this football team has come a long way. is he

what's he saying with that um the chance to beat the most depleted Philadelphia team in your first year as a coach to make the playoffs at seven and nine make the playoffs you know Alex Smith back you probably get McCormack in the first week of the playoffs I'm guessing Gibson would

potentially return you have a healthy defense at that point you have a real shot of beating Tampa winning a game in the playoffs is massive in the NFL this isn't house money you're not there yet make the playoffs and maybe it's house money. I actually agree with that. You know what? Context is everything.

Obviously, you know, at 2 and 7, 1 and 5, you would have said if you're playing for the division title in the final week, that would be like house money, man. I mean, come on. But the context is they've actually been until some of these injuries, specifically the injury to Alex Smith, they've been the team that's played the best over the last couple of months, last month and a half anyway, in the division. And they deserve this.

They've earned it. I don't care what the – look, seven and nine is seven and nine, and if they lose, they end up six and ten, and it's like they're six and ten and didn't make the playoffs. And you may sort of forget about everything else. But seven and nine to me is – and a playoff berth is now – have to have. I'll be very disappointed if they don't beat Philadelphia, given the context right now. They should, this is a, I think it's a well-coached team. I think he will push the right buttons. The problem is he's missing some key pieces that could end up hurting him.

I don't know what gives you so much confidence that Heineke can just go out and win this game. That's not so much confidence. Let's not get crazy with it. I'm just saying, can Heineke get you 20? I don't know if he can get you 20. might give the other team 20. I mean, you know, he could give the other team 20. That's the problem. I want, I am with you on this, and this, I'm not coming off of. I've been on this for a few weeks now. I do not want Alex Smith out there if he's not capable of being the Alex

Smith that we saw in the games where he played well enough for them to win, and they won four games and lost one of them, you know, the Detroit game. Because if he's not that guy, it's bad news, because we saw it. We saw it against San Francisco. It was really dreadful. And by the way, that kind of play could cost them the game. That could be a move if he's not 100 percent that puts you in position to lose the game. There's a lot going on here because if he's not ready and they play Heineke, we have no idea what we're going to get with Heineke. And they know what They know what they're going to get with Hertz. It would be advantageed them on the quarterback front.

But then again, Hertz hasn't played with this crew. He's had a healthy team to play with here in recent weeks. That was one of the advantages he had over Wence. He got his start with players coming back and being healthy. But that's not the team he's going to have tomorrow. Let me just give you my second thing on this one. What's your second thing? This is one of those games, and you see it every year in the finale,

when one team has to win and the other team has to lose. You've got to start quickly, and it's not been their MO, obviously. But if you can start quickly against this team and you can get a two-score lead, Philly will pack it up, and the game will go quickly, and they'll win it going away. You know, I don't see Washington jumping out to a 14-0 lead and having Philly rally to win. So a quick start finally would be really, really big in this matchup. You know, when they had this opportunity in 2015, by the I was thinking about this coolly last night, remember in 2015? Like when Rivera said that Lamar Miller might be a contributor, I thought of Pierre Thomas.

Remember him? Oh, yeah. They picked up Pierre Thomas late in that season in 2015, and he became a huge contributor in that game against Philadelphia on national TV, second to last week of the season. It was the Saturday night game, and they blew out the Eagles to clinch the division in that game. And Pierre Thomas had a huge game,

and I went back and looked it up. He had seven catches for 67 yards, four runs for 22 yards. So we had 11 touches for 89 yards in a closeout game. It was huge. Now, Jordan Reed that night, if you recall, was totally uncheckable. And Kirk threw for 365 and four touchdowns. And I guess that was a big game.

It was a playoff clinching game. But it couldn't have been because he never plays well in good games. So it must have been something that I read incorrectly, 365 yards and four touchdowns he had. in a game they had to win to clinch the playoffs, because he's never done that before. Oh, wait a minute, he did. I'm looking at it. He did have four touchdowns in 365 yards

in a game that was win or go home for both teams. Anyway, I digress. Pierre Thomas, maybe Lamar Miller ends up becoming Pierre Thomas. I always liked Lamar Miller. I always liked him. One of those years when he was a free agent, you and I think were doing a show, and I'm like, I'd sign Lamar Miller.

I think he's a player. I think he's a big playmaker. or two. I think Lamar Miller can make some place. Who knows where has he been? Has he been anywhere this year? I think he was in Chicago. I think that's where they got him, I think.

I don't think he played it all, though, this year. Got him. He was just hanging out in Chicago? I'm going to check right now. He was, yeah, he was in Chicago this year. He played in one game and had two receptions for six yards. That was it. He was in Houston, obviously, for several years in Miami before that.

only 29. Anyway, look, bottom line, my second key, start quickly. Start quickly, and Philly will pack it up. I mean, it's just such a big key. I've been in so many of these games where not particularly so many of these games where the other team desperately needed it. I'm trying to think of how many games I played in that it was. You played in one.

We were certainly done in a lot of these games in week 17. I'll give you the Only the three playoff runs we made The last game mattered The rest of them We were way out of it You're going to play a quarter and a half Things are going

Well you're going to keep that enthusiasm And that adrenaline Through Halftime But you're watching the clock In the second half Unless that game is Right there

You're just sitting there Looking on the bench Going Nine minutes And six seconds in the third quarter, baby. Here we go. Just run, run, run. I mean, I bet, look, it's a sad thing to say, but you're done. You're going to Bermuda the next day or wherever you're going. You got plans. You're going to go

hang out with your family. That's on the bat. That's right there and it's in the front of everyone's mind. Season's over. Do you remember your rookie year, who you guys finished with? Do you remember he? We beat Minnesota. Yeah, Minnesota had to win the game to get in. Now, they ended up getting in because later on that day, New Orleans beat Carolina to... And then they won a playoff game at 7 and 9. They were 8 and 8. Yeah, they finished 8 and 8, but they came...

Oh, they got to 8 and 8. Won a playoff game. It was the game Randy Moss walked off early. Yeah, Randy Moss walked off the field early at FedEx Field. All right. Here's my next key to this game. Please. When Washington has had success, they have been excellent. in third down offense.

They have to be excellent in third down offense. They have to win the time of possession. I don't know if they're going to make big plays down the field. I don't know if they have the playmakers to make those plays down the field. I think it looks more like a slant to Cam Sims on a third and seven. Checkdown to McKissick on third and nine that he turns into 13. Four-yard spot route to Logan Thomas at third and four, third and five, and he falls forward.

But they have to move the chains. And I think that they're going to move the chains by having two, three, four first downs on any drive. It's not going to be every drive. But they're going to have to put two or three or four drives together with multiple first downs. To me, third down is critical. And look at the games this season. I'd be interested to see the games that they've been over 40, 45 percent and third down percentage are the games they've won. That's the games they've won.

They're not a big play explosive offense. They haven't had a ton of them this year. They're a nickel and dime you down the field to score 21 or 20 or whatever they end up getting to in a lot of these games. And mostly it becomes those third down situations. So you convert a bunch of them. You let Phillies offense sit on the bench, look at the clock. Other than Jalen Hertz and maybe Jalen Rager, the rest of the guys are going to be sitting there going, come on, baby, run on down.

Let's get to this off season. and you matriculate the ball, Kevin. You matriculate the ball with third down offense. I think that's so huge. You're 100% right when they've really played well. They've converted on third downs. I mean, the game two weeks ago that they lost to, why am I blanking here, that they lost to Seattle

was really the first game that they were really excellent on third down, and they didn't win it. I guess they were against Detroit as well. They were really good on third down against Detroit, but they were 10 of 17 in that game against Seattle, if I recall, with Duane, by the way, a quarterback. And they did not win that game. I think third down defense is huge, Cooley.

I think third down defense in making sure that you really sort of crush the spirit of Philadelphia offensively, and they keep sending their punter out. And by the way, field position then becoming important. you know, not giving them the opportunity to make one first down and kick a field goal, you know, with field position. But my third overall key sort of plays into that a little bit, and that is don't blow it on special teams. You blew it on special teams last week. You know, you blown it on special teams with your kicker a couple of times, the Seattle game. Really, the last two losses to Seattle and Carolina,

you could chalk up to a Hopkins missed extra point and a Stephen Sims, you know, muffed punt return that basically were key reasons. In the case of Sims, it was the tone setter and the loss to Carolina. You can't blow this game on special teams. I would not put Stephen Sims Jr. back on punt returns in this game. I would take a chance on Isaiah Wright or somebody else. Anybody else. I think he's got the yips.

I don't think he's got confidence. And I think that you could basically talk. your playoff opportunities to the side and blow it completely if you put him back on a punt return again. I'd actually, if everybody's healthy and I don't think McLaurin is, I don't know that I'd have Steven Sims Jr. even active in this game. Dustin Hopkins cannot miss kicks. It's going to be a rainy night, apparently in Philadelphia, cold, rainy night. Certainly rain leading into the game, so it'll be a wet field. And Hopkins, pass to make kicks, can't miss PATs, can't miss a 48-yarder.

You know, he pushes these things. They're going to have to take every opportunity they can to score. Because I do think this is like 16 to 10, you know, 19 to 13. You know, I think they can win this game. And I think they can win it in cover in this game, which is always important to me. But they cannot blow this game on special teams. The last two losses were, you know, You know, the losses were attributable in a major way to special teams' errors,

and they can't have one tomorrow night. Well, that's a good. I mean, right into my next key is you can't self-inflict damage. And special teams have been a big way that they've done it. But then a lot of games they've lost, especially early in ball games, they've had stupid turnovers, fumbles, bad picks, bad turnovers. You can't self-inflict. No. Can't give the Eagles opportunities.

You can't give Jaylen Hertz short fields. You've got to make them work if they're going to score. And so turnovers, as far as self-inflicted, or stupid penalties, you know, holdings when you don't need to hold, personal fouls that extend drives. Montez-swet jumping off sides to make a first-and-five or to give them conversions in third-down situations. Those are stupid penalties that you can avoid. It's going to be a low-penety, low-turn-term. over game. No self-inflicting wounds is a huge key for me. I mean, this is really what we're saying is we're going through this. It's like basically Philadelphia... Don't lose the game. This is not Philadelphia

wanting to knock out a division rival. By the way, you could almost make the argument that if Dallas wins early in the day, they don't want Dallas to be the division champ. They'd rather it be us. But they also can improve their draft position a lot with a loss here. They're not playing any big-time players. Hertz is going to have to basically prove it by himself in many ways. And the only, I really feel this way. This is like one of those games. The only way they lose it is if they lose it. They make the mistakes. They make it easy for Philadelphia to win. And I am considering that as a possibility. I'm not discounting that as a possibility. If they play Taylor Heineke or a less than 100% Alex Smith with no Terry McLaren and maybe, you know,

Gibson being hampered? I think it's definitely possible. And that would lead me to my last thing. This has to be a Chase Young, Montez-Swett, Duran Payne, John Allen, go take it from Philadelphia. You know, score on defense. Certainly set up two scores because they may need to set up two scores. Washington may not be capable of moving it consistently with a hampered's veteran quarterback or a first-time second-year starter who's never played in a game like this. So this could be one of those games where Chase Young, I think he's already got the defensive rookie of the year wrapped up. But on national TV in the final game of the regular season, 99 comes through with a forced

fumble, a fumble recovery and a return down to the Philadelphia 7-yard line that sets up a score. Sweat gets his hands on something and picks it, or he forces a fumble. That kind of stuff, I don't know if it's required, but I think it would absolutely make it, you know, a slam dunk. If you get two of those, two to three of those big defensive plays, Philadelphia's got no shot. I totally agree, and you should. They're going to start this dude, Brett Toth at tackle. I don't even know who that is. The rookie from Army.

Yeah. Actually, no, he's been in the league for a couple years. He bounced around for a couple years. Played at Army. They are depleted as could be on the offensive line. I mean, they already had another dude, Jordan Maliana out. Yeah, he's out. But he's out with a concussion.

Yeah. He was already a backup. They should have took advantage of that. Brett Toth should get owned. They're going to try, go back to my first key. They're going to try to run the ball with Hertz. They're going to try to move the pocket. They're going to try to get hurts outside the pocket.

They're going to try to screen you, try to create with Washington thinking they can get pressure up the field. They should just own Philadelphia up front. They should absolutely own them. They have to. And that's the strong. suit of this team. That front four has got to set the tempo. They've got to make those plays you talked about. If you can

score on defense, if you can make a couple of those big-time game-changing plays, there's just no way I can see Philadelphia putting up 27 points in this ball game. There's no way. But special teams are a part of that. Even though you say the Eagles are so depleted

on defense and that they've given up over 500 yards two weeks in a row, the Cardinals and the Cowboys are better offenses than we are No doubt. Dallas has a, and Arizona, they have a boatload of weapons as far as receivers down the field. We don't have that. Nope.

They don't. Washington doesn't. Agreed. They don't have that. Totally agree with that. That's, for those that are looking at the Arizona and the Dallas success offensively against Philadelphia, a healthier Philadelphia team, there's no DeAndre Hopkins on this team. There's no Morrie Cooper or C.D. Lamb or Gallup, who's turned. Or Christian Kirk or Larry Fitzgerald.

None of those guys exist. There's a list of eight players on both of those teams, at least seven players, that are better than any player we're putting on the field. Yeah. Washington's putting on the field. Right. That's why, you know, offensively, seriously, you cannot force shit. You cannot try to force something to Cam Sims if he's being covered by Slay.

You have to be willing to punt the ball and understand that your defense should be able to get off the field pretty quickly. And maybe your best opportunity to set up scores or to score is with your defense on the field. By the way, back to special teams because I didn't mention this and I had it in my notes. Jalen Rager can really be a threat on punt returns. So he's gotten more confidence here in recent days. You've got, if he's back there, if it's Ward, but they can get big plays out of their punt return game. Rager's done it already once.

He did it against Green Bay, although that may have been a kickoff return, I forget. But you really have to be, these are the ways that you lose this game. You lose it on offense and you lose it on special teams. I don't see Washington losing this game on defense. I see them potentially winning it on defense, but you can't overcome offense and special teams dooming you. Like what happened last week with the quarterback in his last game and with the special teams.

Can't do that. Remember, he missed a kick last week too, right? He missed a field goal. Did Hopkins miss a field goal last week, too? He did, right? No, not last week. You're right. Missed the P.A.T. against Seattle, my fault. I think, to be honest with you, I wouldn't be shocked if they lost, but I would be surprised. And I'll tell you why. Jay Gruden loses this game. I don't think Ron Rivera does. I think Jay Gruden would lose this game like they lost the 2016 finale to the Giants. Now, the Giants played their starters, but they had a vanilla a game plan in a game that they didn't have to win.

They ran the ball down the throats of Washington's defense, and then Kirk had a terrible game, too. But that's Jay Gruden. I think that I'd be surprised. Jay Gruden won this game, too. Jay Gruden won this game in 2017? In 2015, you mean? They won it in the next to last week. It didn't come down to one game, although they would have been eliminated in that game. And they won the game, they were better than Philadelphia that particular year and that night. They were.

They had become very, very difficult offensively to stop that year. The the Jackson, Jordan Reed, Garsohn thing was on a roll at the end of that season. Right? I mean, they had, remember, they

had put up all those points against Buffalo. I was certain they would win that game. You were so certain they were going to, God, I'll never forget that. You were like, They are absolutely going to win this game. There is no chance. Philadelphia cannot stop them.

And you were right. You were right. They could not, they had nobody. I'm looking at the box score from that night. Jordan Reed, nine catches, 129 yards, two touchdowns. Pierre Garsohn, seven catches, 80 yards, one touchdown. Pierre Thomas, seven catches, 67 yards. Jackson, four for 40.

Ryan Grant had a 24-yard catch. Crowder had two catches. Thompson had a catch. I mean, how many people caught balls at night? Eight people caught balls. They didn't rush the ball at all that night. It was all through the air. Alfred Morris had 49 yards, 2.9 yards per gary.

They just shredded them all night long. Feels sort of like the same opportunity, but a different way of achieving it. Like, the defense is what will win this game. Exactly. The defense will tear them apart, and that's what we'll win this game. All right. We'll have our predictions on this game in a moment. Smell test, lock of the week next. Kevin looks where the John Q public is putting their cash and does the opposite.

It's time for the smell test. All right, the smell test brought to you by my bookie. Guys and gals, if you've never wagered before, but you want to wager on sports and you want to get started with some of these bowl games today. But the NFL games tomorrow and the playoff games next week are college hoops. or the NBA, you've got to find a place that you can trust. Not all of these places are safe. A lot of these places, you'll end up wagering money. You'll be giving them a credit card or another form of payment,

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up to half the amount if you use my promo code, Kevin DC. What does that mean? If you open your account with, say, $500, they're going to add an additional $250. So you'll have $750 to use if you use my promo code, Kevin DC. They have plenty of ways to wager, lots of prop bets, lots of ingeats, lots of ingeons. game wagering, and they also have an online casino, an online racebook, et cetera, and plenty of contests and giveaways as well. MyBooky.ag use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. All right, I was 5, 2, and 1 last week, so I'm 10, 3, and 2 over the last two weeks, and I've gotten myself coolly to within

three games of 500 on the year. So I'm storming back into position to have a winning year, which would be 11 out of 15 years. I've had 10 winning years out of 14 previously. Last year was not a winning year. But it's really hard. This final weekend's really hard. Let me just tell you, we're doing this podcast at around 11, 12 noon, so I'm not going to give you Kentucky minus two, even though I like Kentucky minus two in the Gator Bowl today. I would lean Oregon too against Iowa State, but no college plays. I would have given out Ohio State more likely than not had I done the show during the holidays. But anyway, no college games. But we focus on tomorrow's NFL card. And I'm going to give you right now, I'm going to give you a chance to get

out of any of these picks by telling you don't play them until a few moments before kickoff. There are going to be too many scratches, late scratches, you know, injuries or just purposely sitting players at the last minute were potential COVID-19 issues here. We're seeing a lot of those heading into it. So this is a very much a tread lightly final weekend of the NFL season. I essentially am starring each one of these games with if the line changes significantly because players are out,

all right? On either side, don't play the game. The game won't count on the smell test and I don't want you to play it. So wait until moments before kickoff. I'm talking like the last 15 minutes before kickoff before playing any of these games so you know exactly who's playing. And the lines I'm going to give you are going to be the lines that you have to play these games at, which means there weren't significant changes in these games. If these lines changed dramatically, you're off it and I'm off it as well.

Coolie, did you get that? Yeah, I'm following along. Okay. The first game is actually a game that surprises me that there's action on the other side. The Vikings are six and a half point favorites against the Lions. There's a public lean on Detroit for some reason. Matt Stafford, I think, is questionable for this game, but it really doesn't matter. The Vikings are without Dalvin Cook, which is why the line's a bit short,

which is why I think people are playing Detroit. The line's actually a little bit high considering the Vikings don't have anything to play for. But I'm telling you right now, Detroit gave up 47 to Tampa last week. And I see Minnesota going out throwing the football a lot and scoring a lot of points against Detroit. I've been right against Minnesota all but one time this year. Do not take this game if the line falls back a lot or goes forward a lot. It's at six and a half or seven you're playing it. Right now it's at six and a half, so I'm laying the six and a half and taking Minnesota.

Cincinnati's getting 13 against Baltimore in a must-win game for Baltimore. Bengals have played well recently. They beat Houston last week. They beat the Steelers a couple of weeks ago, but the public loves the Ravens to destroy Cincinnati in a game that means nothing to Cincinnati, means everything to Baltimore. I'll take the Bengals plus 13. But again, if this goes to 14, 14 and a half, 15, you're off it, okay? Even though it would be better to take more points, you're off it.

I like the Jags plus 14 against Indy. Now, I'm seeing some reports pop up about some COVID issues with Jacksonville. So this may be a late game scratch as well. But if that line stays at 14, 13 and a half somewhere in that neighborhood, take Jacksonville plus 14 in the game that Indy has to have to keep their hopes alive. They need to win and have one of three teams, including potentially the Ravens, lose outright. I like the Niners plus the seven against Seattle. Seattle still has a chance for the one seed. The Niners have played well here, and they went and really potentially ruined Arizona's chances, although Arizona's got a shot tomorrow against the Rams.

But I think the 49ers are a professional team. I think they approach these things professionally. I think they have a chance to run the football, and I think they have a chance to keep it close. but again, if that line goes to seven and a half, eight, nine, Seattle, you're off it. The Bears plus four against Green Bay. Not many people giving the Bears a chance with Green Bay playing for the one seed to clinch the one seed to play all their games at Lambo. If they beat the Bears, they could still get it done if they lose this game. The games at Soldier Field, the Bears clinch a playoff spot with a win, with a loss. They would need a Rams win over the Cardinals to still remain in the postseason.

The Bears have been playing well recently. They have been moving the ball, and you know who's played exceptionally well, and their wins recently is Mitchell Tribusky. He has really been accurate. He's been really good with his legs. David Montgomery's emergence here for Chicago has really been a big help. I think Chicago's got a chance to win this game outright. I will take them plus the four.

my guess is, of all the games that I just gave out, that's the game where the line's probably going to stay right where it is because both teams really are going to go into this game trying to win the game. You know, every other game I gave you either had both teams playing a meaningless game or at least one team having nothing to play for. The Bears and the Packers, both with a lot at stake in this game tomorrow at Soldier Field. I like the Bears plus four. So Vikings minus six and a half, Bengals plus 13, Jags plus 14, 49ers plus seven, and the Bears plus four. Update will come via Twitter, okay? So I will tweet out which of these games right before kickoff are a go and which ones are a scratch. So follow me on Twitter if you don't already,

at Kevin Shee and DC at Kevin Shee and DC on Twitter. And right before kickoff at one o'clock, I'll give you whether or not the Vikings and the Bengals and the Jags or scratches or not, and then the same for the late games with the 49ers and the Bears. All right, Cooley's Lock of the Week. What is it? Man, this is, first of all, what a fun week, 17. Yeah. Like, the scenarios are insane. Lots of them.

I mean, the idea that in the AFC, you could win 11 games and not get in. Right. Indy could win 11 and not get in. I think it's absolute insanity. I think Dallas is a much better team than New York right now. I do. And I know that Republic's probably more on Dallas. Yeah, they are. By a lot. I almost gave out the Giants. But I think Dallas is much better, too. But I almost gave out the Giants.

But Dallas is just a much better team. The thing is, like, what are the Giants? why are the Giants so close in that game? Because of their defense? That's one that I struggle with, their defense. I mean, that's a crazy one. The other one that's crazy, I'll stay off the Dallas one because it's so close.

The other one that's crazy. The Browns are a nine and a half-point favorite over the Steelers. The Steelers are going to rest. Rafflesberger, PJ Watt, Haywood, the defensive lineman, potentially other players. The Steelers don't need this game. They don't care about this game. The Browns do need this.

game. But they've got all the COVID issues all week, which I think would lead people to get off of the Browns. But I think because of the COVID issues in week 17, getting that full week of rest, light practice and stuff, with the idea that you still have to win helps, I'm going to take the Steelers, who are minus nine and a half right now. You mean the Browns? I'm not to take the Cleveland Browns who are minus nine and a half right now.

That's what? All nine teams way too big. Remember the Steelers beat the Browns 38 to 7 in the first game of the season. Right. Swax them. But the theories are potentially going to rest other players. Like they could rest Conner, they could rest Juju Smith-Schuster. You have to field a full roster so you can't rest everybody.

But even if Pittsburgh plays some of these dudes, they'll probably end up sitting them after the second quarter. I think the Browns run away with this one easily. All right. Mason Rudolph game. There it is. Coolie's going with Cleveland. I think that the whole COVID thing

and the Browns' COVID issues are strange. I mean, they lost to the Jets last week. But you're right. Pittsburgh is like Philadelphia this week. I mean, they're sitting everybody, and they're not really interested in winning. And, you know, you do have the Mason-Rudoff Miles Garrett, you know, rematch of sorts.

And, you know, from the game that Miles Garrett ended up getting tossed for the season last year, which is strange, right? in a game that they've got to have, he's going to face Rudolph again. Look, Cleveland should win that game. You're right, they should. All right, when we come back, we will have a Washington-Philadelphia final score prediction and a word on a friend of ours that after 20 years is leaving the team 980.

All right, Cooley, we both want to say something about our good friend, Steve Zabin, who is leaving the team 980 and has left the team 980 after an incredible 20 years. of basically being an afternoon drive. It's one of the real great runs in the history of sports talk radio in this town. You got to work with them, obviously, on a show. And I've been, you know, a colleague, if you will, of his at the same station for a long period of time. So we'll say something about Zabe in a moment. But first, give me your Washington-Philadelphia final score prediction.

I think it ends up being more of a battle than you think. or maybe people do think it's going to be a battle, but I think it's going to be tight. I, to me, I think this game looks like 23-20. Maybe Dustin Hopkins puts a field goal to walk off in the end of regulation. Is that your pick? You just said maybe. I'm going to take Washington 23, Philadelphia 20.

I'm going to take Washington 17 Philadelphia. 10 in a game that isn't pretty, but they do what they need to do. And they play it smart. You know, in this game that Ron Rivera coached in, when they finished 7, 8, and 1, they went to Atlanta in the season finale and played the Falcons for the division. The Falcons could win the division as well. This is the season that he's often referred to when he said, hey, we're in this division. We went to the playoffs as a 7, 8, and one team.

And they blew out the Falcons on the road in that season finale, 34 to 3. I don't see that as a possibility here. I'd be really surprised if they score more than 17 or 20. But I'd be really surprised if Philadelphia is able to score much either. I've got Washington 17, Philadelphia 10, 7 and 9 division champions with Tampa coming to town next weekend at some point. By the way, did you see the thing with Alvin Kamara testing with the COVID-19 issue that he will be back and eligible to play if New Orleans plays next Sunday?

But if their game is scheduled for Saturday, because you've got a triple header on Saturday, triple header on Sunday, that he wouldn't be able to play. Do you think the NFL does him and does New Orleans a solid and schedules their game on Sunday? Yeah, I think they do. I do too. I think the NFL wants to see the best players on the field, which is the right thing to do, in my opinion.

I agree. Unless there's something. I mean, obviously there are other, they're extenuating circumstances where COVID could own the first week of the playoffs in a different fashion. No doubt. Yeah. Look, there's a possibility. We're sitting here on late Saturday morning, early Saturday afternoon. It just seems like there are more COVID issues here over the last couple of days and last

week than we've had. Now, there was that stretch with, you know, the Titans and a couple of other teams early in the season. But, you know, I wonder if we complete the day tomorrow, it's an amazing feat to have gotten through this schedule without losing a game with all 32 teams playing 16 games, which, you know, at times seemed like there was a possibility it wouldn't happen. But what could happen is that the playoff schedule could get disrupted. But, you know, they've got more flexibility there. And I say more flexibility. Why?

Well, they could move a game to Monday. They could move a game to Tuesday. And if there's a short week, they can move the next one to Monday or Tuesday. You know, if it's too short of a week. I mean, they can play around with it because they're going to have enough product probably for Saturday and Sunday. And they probably wouldn't mind a Monday or a Tuesday night game, you know, in the NFL playoffs to extend the weekend. Anyway. Would you?

Would I what? Would you mind a Monday or Tuesday playoff game? I just think the first week of the NFL players are so great. Oh, they're awesome. It's so great to have all of them together. They're awesome. Yeah, and this will be the first time in history that, you know, with this new playoff format.

And just to remind everybody, it's not a COVID-19 format. This is what they were going to do. This was a new change with or without pandemic. It's a 17-14-team playoff. seven team each conference. One team gets a buy and the other six play on wild card weekend, which means triple header on Saturday, triple header on Sunday. So you're going to have a one o'clock game, a 430 game, and an 815 game. And if one of those games got postponed to Monday or Tuesday, I don't think it would be the worst thing in the world for the NFL to have another prime time

opportunity on a Monday or Tuesday night. Obviously, it would then impact the following weekend because if a team had to move a game to Tuesday, you're not going to make that team then play on Sunday. That Sunday game would probably get moved to like a Monday night. But anyway, it's all hypothetical. I wanted to finish up. Many of you not only listen to this podcast, but you listen to the radio station that I've been on and that Kooley was on for many years and you listen to a lot of the other guys on the station and have for a long period of time. Well, Steve Zabin is leaving 980. He's left 980 actually. Starting today, in fact, he started a shift, a one day a week shift on 1067 The Fan doing Saturday mornings 9 to 12, and he is no longer going to do afternoon

drive on 980. In fact, he won't be doing any shows on 980, and he won't be doing a regular show on 1067 The Fan either. By the way, for those that don't know, Entercom, who owns 1067 the Fan, also purchased our station, the Team 980, you know, a month or so ago, which is why, you know, we talked a little bit about Doc Walker and CJ and Scott Lynn were let go in that transition. You know, as of now, my morning show is going to continue. But, you know, this is a crazy business. Who the hell knows? But I, you know, you got a chance for a couple of years to do afternoon drive with Zabe,

working with Zabe and Al Galdi in afternoon drive. I've obviously been at the same station with Zabe for 17 years or the better part of 17 years and have gotten to know them well. I can just tell you that from my perspective, nobody's done it better than Zabe. Nobody's more talented at doing this in this market and one of the most talented guys in the country at doing this. I've always been a big fan of the shows that he's been involved in, whether it was his show with Andy, whether it was his show coolly with you and Galby or whether it was his show in recent years with his longtime partner in a lot of different you know national formats Scotland as well i've just always enjoyed

enjoyed the show for me it's always been part of my afternoon routine you know one of the things in this business by the way that is an absolute given is that we all listen to each other and end up coming up with great ideas for the next day's show based on listening to other shows. And, you know, listening to Zabe and Andy or listening to Zabe with you and Galdi or listening to Zabe with Scott Lynn. I can't tell you how many times I was like, oh, I'm going to do that as a topic tomorrow. Or I'm going to do a variation of that topic. But Zabe is an extraordinary talent. He's real good at what he does. One of the best. And, you know, I've told him this privately before. I don't know if I've ever said it on the air, but I've always been a fan of the shows that he's been on and have listened to him for years.

And, you know, he and I have worked together. We've talked about working together in more concrete ways at various times, but it never really worked out. But, you know, we've done shows together and we did the TV show on Channel 4 together for, you know, three years. And I always enjoyed that. But I said this coolly about Scott, Lynn, and CJ and Doc when they were let go, that it really felt like the end of an era at 980. You know, 980 was the heritage sports. It has been the heritage sports talk station in D.C.

It was the first. It was the dominant for a long time. 1067, the fan came around, and they flipped their format to sports in 2009. and they've done a tremendous job over the years. The junkies have obviously been the show more than any other that's been on longer than anybody else's show, 25 years or whatever it's been and counting such a huge success. Grant and Danny have done a phenomenal job in middays,

and, you know, we were, but we had a group of, you know, basically 10 to 15, 10 to 12 guys, that were sort of constants over the last 15 to 20 years, in some cases, 25 years. And it just seems to me like it's the end of an era. I said that a few weeks ago, and I used a line, and I'm probably going to butcher it again, but from my favorite show, which happens to be Zab's favorite show as well, The Office. But in the season, in the series finale of the office, Andy Bernard, played by Ed Helms, has a line in there that I'll just never forget. And I used it a couple of weeks ago with Tommy

to describe sort of my feelings about 980. And he said, quote, I'm paraphrasing, if I don't get it right, exactly. He said, I wish there was a way to know you were in the good old days before you've actually left them. And the days at 980, you know, Cooley, you were a part of it, you know, whether it was with their show or the show that you and I did together. It really felt like a club. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun being a part of. Some of the conversations that would take place outside of our studios in the bullpen

were sometimes better content than we even put on air. And, you know, it just feels to me I got very nostalgic a couple of weeks ago with Doc and Scott and CJ. And I felt the same way when Zab announced. the other day that he was leaving, because the truth is, without him, it'll never be the same. It just won't be the same. And, you know, I'm going to trudge on as long as they'll have me and as long as it works. And I obviously wish him the best. And it wouldn't surprise me if he's back doing this again.

He does a show in Milwaukee. Yeah, Milwaukee in the mornings. He's been a very popular on-air guy. Milwaukee, because he did this spot with this Milwaukee show for years and years and years, and then he got his own morning show in Milwaukee. So he has been burning the candle at both ends doing morning drive and afternoon drive. And I'm sure a lot of that schedule got to him here. But anyway, I wish him the best because he was the best. And he is. And hopefully he'll be back at some point down the road. What do you say?

Gosh, it was so much fun to work with Steve. After a year. After a year. The first year is the worst year of all time. I know. You guys did not get along that first year. We did get along. The wild thing was, is the second the show would end, we got along great.

But Zabe pushed me to be better. I sucked in the first year at 980. In all honesty, I wasn't very good. I thought it was going to be very easy. I thought that it was going to be this kind of good. go hang out, have fun thing. And it was a constant bitch, a constant challenge with Zabe every day. And they made me better. But there were a couple things. I mean, I'll never forget, well, one, the first time that Zave did, you are looking live, and I told him we're never

doing that again. I remember that. I was listening. I'm like, oh, that's not a good start. And Dave was not happy. Neither was Sallie. Sorry, it was awesome, too. They're both going, just shut up for 30 minutes then. So we are doing this. We're doing this every week. And, Kev, to be honest with you,

the reason I didn't like you are looking live was because I had no idea what the point spreads were. Yeah. Like, why are we picking games? Well, another team gets, can we just pick the winner? I'm telling who's going to win. He's like, that's not really how it works, coolie. Oh, yeah, okay.

Well, it's going to work my way from now on. Well, it didn't work my way. And his way was the right way. He was so good with that segment that we always had for a half an hour that probably should have been 40 minutes. The Daily Zabe was awesome every single day. The seven minutes before the Daily Zabe, where we'd always go to break,

were seven minutes that you could not talk to Steve Zabin because those were the seven minutes that he prepared for the Daily Zab. Right. We had a day where we had Mike Alupica on. and Aldi and Zabe are excited to have Mike Lupica. I, as a former player, don't really know who Mike Lupica is or was at the time, didn't really care, and having him came with this caveat of certain things that you couldn't ask. And you and I talked about it a minute ago, I think it was Greg Hardy was on the list of things that Lupica didn't want to talk about.

Well, also keep in mind, I probably didn't really read through those lists of things you could or couldn't do a guess. I actually never really even enjoyed having guests on for whatever reason. And somehow it came up that I said something to Lupica, and Lupica got all aggressive, and Zab stepped up like nobody has ever stepped up for me, and then owned Lupica. Oh, he felled him. Absolutely owned him. Yeah, he embarrassed him.

He embarrassed him. He showed, I mean, and he showed this so many times, how quick wooded he was, how smart he was, how off the cuff he was, how fluid. I was going through looking for something like this, and I said, I saw this Zabe tweet from 2015, Bhaug Hardy charges dismissed. Makes my owning of professional putter, Mike Lupica,

in a radio argument, even sweeter. Oh, he tweeted that? The Greg Hardy thing became just a Zabe Lupica thing. Right. But it was awesome. It took a couple years. You know, Zabe's so much fun to work with.

He is. He is so much fun. And looking back at it, hindsight, the way our show is designed, what a team player, Zabe is as well. Now, I didn't know when I stepped into that role. Obviously, I knew I replaced Andy.

And Andy has been so good to me from the first day. I mean, I can't tell you how much I appreciate Andy as well. but I didn't know just quite what Zabin was. Well, you didn't listen to the station. I just wasn't part of that world. Right. So to see Al Galdi all of a sudden

running the show, which is the way we designed it, what the Al would be the in and out, and the design was basically for Al to be the host to propose different situations to Zabanite. Well, Zab should run a show. Not that Galdi isn't really good at what he does, but Zabe had to sit back

he should be the guy that runs the show. And he found a way to make that show work. Through me being terrible in the first year, Galdi running his first show of all time, it was the weirdest pairing of three that ended up working out. And Zabe was a huge part of that. He was great. God, there was a day, this is Zabe too.

We said, let's try to work together. Oh, this is my favorite story. Because this also, you and I have talked a lot about this, because this also describes a little bit of sort of the weirdness of him off the air. Dave picks me up. We walk around, do a couple of things at the house, and I think I put my foot up or something bumped to dash of his car, and Dave can't.

He's so anal. You should just get a foot down. Get your foot down. He's such a dad. I'm okay. They sit there quietly. So we get close to Rockville where the studio. and Zab says, I have a haircut.

Do you mind if I just pull over here about a quarter mile from the station? And you can either get out and hang out here at the haircut place, or you can just walk to the studio. Like, do you want to just drive me the quarter mile, turn around to drive back? You know what I remember about that? You called me and you said, you're not going to believe what Zab just did. And you told me the story, and I said,

well, you have to tell that on the show. absolutely have to tell that because people are going to be like, oh my God, what is his deal? Zabe definitely is his own guy. And by the way, that didn't surprise anybody, right? Like, I'm in a... No, but it seems completely normal. It was normally, it wasn't means... It wasn't mean spirited. It was... No.

Yeah. I get you this far. Right, but I remember, I remember you saying, I remember what you... said to me, you said, Zabe just dropped me off like a half mile from the station, asked me if it was okay, and I wasn't going to say no

because I figured this would be a good story to tell on the air, right? And I said, absolutely. You played it perfectly. Because if you would really push it, said, what are you talking about? Will you please take me to the station and then go get your haircut? Like, by the way, most people would do,

you wouldn't have had the story to tell on the air. Look, my Zabes had I love Steve I loved working with him I thought he was outstanding as a friend

even with some of those side stories that's who he was and we appreciated him for being that guy Right Everybody at that place All of us had Our own weird quirky things

I mean it was It was Again I got nostalgic a couple of weeks ago And I got nostalgic the other day Because it really was such a cool place to work and to be a part of like this group of people. And it's not like all of us did shows together,

but we were all part of a team that, you know, a lot of you listen to. And by the way, without the people listening, the people that listened and the people that called became a part of the whole thing as well. And, you know, a couple of weeks ago, that was a blow. Losing Zabe, it's just not. I mean, I immediately said to my wife, she said, Zab's leaving? And I said, yeah, and I said, it's, it'll, 90s never going to be the same. Like, that's, that's the ultimate blow.

It doesn't mean that it's not going to continue. It doesn't mean that it can't be something new and different and really, really good. And I'm going to work hard, hopefully, as a part of that, if they'll have me for, you know, however long they'll have me, because this is a very unpredictable business. but it definitely now feels like the era of the last 25 or so years, 20 to 25 years. It feels that way to me, and I'm still a part of it moving forward, so that tells you how much I respect what Zabe was and what he meant to the station. But anyway, as Zabe would say, let's go have ourselves, actually in this case, let's go have ourselves a postseason, all right, get a win.

tomorrow so we can be back here next week talking about a playoff game. Happy New Year to everybody. Cooley, thanks for talking on Monday. God, there was a day, this is Zabe too. We said, let's ride to work together. Oh, this is my favorite story. Because this also, you and I have talked a lot about this, because this also describes a little bit of sort of the weirdness of him off the air.

Zabe picks me up. we walk around do a couple of things at the house and I think I put my foot up or something bumped at dash of his car and Zabe can't he's so anal

you should just get to get your foot down he's such a such a dad so I'm okay I sit there quietly so we get close to Rockville where the studio is

and Zabe says I have a haircut do you mind if I just pull over here about a quarter mile from the station and you can either get out and hang out here at the haircut place or you can just walk to the studio.

Like you want to just drive me the quarter mile, turn around and drive back? You know what I remember about that? You called me and you said, you're not going to believe what Zabe just did. And you told me the story, and I said, well, you have to tell that on the show. You absolutely have to tell that

because people are going to be like, oh, my God, what is his deal? Zabe definitely is his own guy, and by the way, that didn't surprise anybody, right? No, but it seemed completely normal. It was normal. Totally. It wasn't mean-spirited. It was, yeah.

I get this far. Right, but I remember you saying, what you said to me, you said, Zab just dropped me off like a half mile from the station, asked me if it was okay. And I wasn't going to say no because I figured this would be a good story to tell on the air, right? And I said, absolutely. You played it perfectly. Because if you had really pushed it, said, what are you talking about? Will you please take me to the station and then go get your haircut?

Like, by the way, most people would do, it would have made you wouldn't have had the story to tell on the air. Look, my, Zabbs had. I love Steve. I loved working with him. I thought he was outstanding as a friend, even with some of those side stories. That's who he was, and we appreciated him for being that guy. Right. Everybody, everybody at that place, all of us had our own weird, quirky things.

I mean, it was, it was, again, I got nostalgic a couple of weeks ago, and I got nostalgic the other day because it really was such a cool place to work and to be a part of like this group of people. And it's not like all of us did shows together, but we were all part of a team that, you know, a lot of you listen to. And by the way, without the people listening, the people that listened and the people that called became a part of the whole thing as well. And, you know, a couple of weeks ago, that was a blow. Losing Zabe, it's just not, I mean, I immediately said to my wife, she said, Zab's leaving? And I said, yeah, and I said, it's, it'll, 90s never going to be the same.

Like, that's, that's the ultimate blow. It doesn't mean that it's not going to continue. It doesn't mean that it can't be something new and different and really, really good. And I'm going to work hard, hopefully, as a part of that, if they'll have me for, you know, however long they'll have me, because this is a very unpredictable business. but it definitely now feels like the era of the last 25 or so years, 20 to 25 years. It feels that way to me, and I'm still a part of it moving forward, so that tells you how much I respect what Zabe was and what he meant to the station. But anyway, as Zabe would say, let's go have ourselves, actually in this case, let's go have ourselves a postseason, all right, get a win.

tomorrow so we can be back here next week talking about a playoff game. Happy New Year to everybody. Cooley, thanks for talking on Monday.