The Kevin Sheehan Show - Pittsburgh: The Scott Turner Game

Episode Date: December 4, 2020

Cooley and Kevin today take a long look at Monday's Washington-Pittsburgh game and discuss how much might be revealed about the team and in particular, OC Scott Turner. Kevin had 12 "Smell Test" plays; Cooley had his "Lock of the Week". The show closed with Cooley sharing some notes he found that were written by Bill Walsh.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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It's Friday. Coolies joining me as he's wending his way through the middle portion of America. And we just got into a big argument, which is why we had to start the podcast over, because I reprimanded him and then he reprimanded me. We can't figure out why he sounds so bad, but he was on Bluetooth, he was on speaker. It sounded terrible. He was upset that I told him he had to take me off speaker. grab his phone and talk into the phone. Is there anything you'd like to add to it?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I were to call you right now on your cell phone on my Bluetooth hands-free, you would not know that I was not talking into my cell phone. Yes, I would. That's not true at all. No, it's very true. Not even close to true.

I'm going to call seven people. As soon as we get off this podcast, I'm going to call everyone I know. Of course I would know you were on speaker on Bluetooth if you called me versus talking into the handset. I would absolutely know the difference. No way. But here's the point. The point is that I am sitting here recording this in my studio. I am looking at Adobe Audition, our recording format.

And you, on Bluetooth, we're barely registering at the highest level of recording for your phone line, your incoming phone line. And I told you it's just not going to work. Because I want this to be an easy to listen. to podcast, you'd like to make people really work hard and have to turn up their volume when you're talking and then turn it down when I'm talking. I'd rather them be able to set their volume level at one level and hear it. By the way, I was looking at the... You're missing.

You're missing. What am I missing? Are you finished? Yeah, I guess. So there's things that I think that you're really good at and a lot of things. I think you're a great friend. I appreciate you as a listener. I do an amazing job with any form of media. Okay, get to the bad point. You are terrible at running a soundboard. You have no idea what's going on in your studio right now. You have no idea how to boost me or why to boost me or why not to boost me. And ultimately, it's completely your fault.

Guilty. I don't care when I listen to you. Guilty. I told you a good listener. But you don't need to go any further. So now you're making me. I'm bad at running a soundboard. Of course I am.

I'm back. Yeah, but now you just don't want to push button. No, I did. Push him around and find out what happened. I turned you all the way up. If we had an engineer here, which then would make the podcast not even close to profitable, it's barely break even as it is, then we wouldn't be able to do this. So we're going to have to just, you know, here's the thing. You're going to have to be more accommodating than you typically like to be.

And we'll be good. And the thing is, is I've tried to be so accommodating. I've bought headsets and technology, but at this current time, I'm driving across the country. And so I thought, just as once maybe you could be more accommodating. I know. I did my best. But you are not accommodating. That is not one of your quality.

You, before we restarted the podcast, and I guess we could have left the entire argument, but I just think it got tedious. And your audio was terrible. You are in Indiana on Interstate 80, headed towards Chicago where you will jump then on Interstate 90. And as we've talked about before, my cross-country trip with my friend when we were 21 years old, on our way out to California, we ended up taking this exact route. We didn't go 70 all the way across. We got on 80. We then got on 90.

and 90 took us through places like Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and then eventually Rapid City, South Dakota, and the badlands, and the Black Hills, and all the beautiful areas of North Dakota, before we came into Wyoming, and we settled into Yellowstone for a few nights. And Yellowstone is, from where you are, well, it would be west of you, correct?

It would be west of you. it's yeah it's 75 miles west of where I live right to the to the east entrance that makes sense how boring of a drive until you get to some of those beautiful areas of South Dakota right in I mean the South Dakota isn't really not beautiful that's okay okay fine it's really it's really not it's like South Dakota is 420 miles I like it's the saddest thing is I've done this drive now I I think 15 or 16 times. Right. And so I know all the miles exactly across all the states.

That's bad. But South Dakota is 420 miles and about 375 of that. Is Sioux Falls the first big city like the total east coast of South Dakota? And then Rapid City I know is way west. Yeah, so that's exactly what it is. Sioux Falls, you're about 15 miles into South Dakota, and it is a pretty big drone a lot, too, in the last few years. And then Rapid City, the same is on the opposite end as the other big city, or bigger city, you know, that I will hit on my drive. But once I get through, you know, Madison, Wisconsin, there's really nothing as far as a big city until you get to Sioux Falls.

plus is in a big city, though. I mean, you get the point. You drive through Madison. It's a long drive, and, yeah, I drive right through Madison. Madison's a great town, don't you think? Have you ever... I do. I've stopped in Madison and stayed a couple times. It is a fun town. Yeah. Madison's one of the great college towns, too. I mean, it's more than just a college town, but the University of Wisconsin's actually really, really nice. Mount Rushmore in South Dakota is Mount Rushmore. I mean, I'm trying to to think, because I went to Mount Rushmore. Is it in the Black Hills?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it is. It's not directly on the way you have to go out of your way. It's, it's, it's, uh, I've stopped a couple times. It's a mountain with some faces on it. Exactly. Exactly.

I'd rather go to Deadwood where there's Blackjack. Right. Right. That's actually where I think I'm going to stop tonight. What's the weather? A lot of times I don't stop. What's the weather? I know.

You've done the drive nonstop with, you know, some assistance across the country before. I did last year without assistance. That was impressive. That is impressive. What is it door-to-door hours? 35, 30? Yeah, I mean, it's 2,000 miles. It always depends on how fast you're going to go.

Yeah, I would just count on if you were to not stop to spend the night or anything, it's right about 30 with gas stops and maybe a food stop or two. What's the weather like? Is the weather supposed to make it a good drive? I haven't really looked that close. I looked a couple days ago. I think it's good all the way to Wyoming, and then I think there's just snow on the road,

but that's not a big deal. Right. I'm so over every part of my life right now. Normally I'm so just task-oriented, easy-going. Next thing. this moving, it sucks. It is the worst. I just kept going through my house, and I kept finding another thing.

I kept finding more things. Oh, my gosh, man. I was supposed to leave Tuesday. Man, I thought I'll get out Wednesday for sure. And I did not make it out of my house until 5 o'clock yesterday. Oh, my God. Oh, you didn't leave until 5 o'clock yesterday. And yet you're only in...

I drove tell about one. And then I stayed the night. I was done. I was really tired. Where did you stay? Hampton in, in... I think it was in Michigan, but you don't go, really go through.

Like, once you get off the exit, you're in Michigan. It's Sturgis, Indiana, or Michigan. You can look that up. I saw it, Michigan when I turned out of exit. I don't know. You looked that up. But, yeah. Stayed there, and I'm back on the road.

I had a what do you got. Okay. Would you like to hear it? Yes. My week, it's been, my last 10 days have been very busy with a lot of things and you'll like this. We were doing the podcast after the game on Monday. Right. No, Friday, a week ago.

Right. And I headed over to my in-law's house and they live in a social. subdivision in Leesburg, which is a nice subdivision, and it has a lot of houses that look alike, and they are fairly close to each other. There's a lot of bigger homes, but they're fairly close to each other. And I wanted to park on their side of the street, and so I drove to the end of their road and U-turned, and then drove back, just past their house. I was talking to you, not paying very much attention, and I just walked around their house, and I'm wandering around the outside.

And then I sat down on their deck and talked for about 10 minutes while we did the podcast on the steps of the deck. And then I got uncomfortable, so I wandered up to the top level of the deck and I sat down in one of the of their patio chair, where I did the show

for about another seven to eight minutes. At that point, some random guy comes out and says, can I help you with anything? Yeah. You were the random.

I looked at him and I went, I wonder why he's at Greg South. Yeah, I went to the wrong house, and I walked around, and I sat on his deck for 10 minutes. To the show, I'm an idiot. You know, I'm wondering. He knew. I said it's my father-in-law, Grandville, and they did actually ask. They did ask if that, in fact, was the case. My mom.

you know at some point it may be in your best interest to keep these stories to yourself maybe it's the best part of life well to be honest with you I was I was focused on what you and I were doing

and it turned out fine it wasn't like I was walking down the wrong trail that was going to lead me off the cliff I guess he could have shot me. I don't know. But I thought I laughed because I thought, I wonder if I was just sitting in my kitchen

and some guy was hanging out on the deck. But I would have done the same thing. I would have went out and said hello. Yeah. How you doing? How you doing, buddy? What's going on out here? You've had a lot of those stories over the years,

you know, not necessarily wandering into someone else's, you know, on to someone else's property. But just a lot of those, God, what was I thinking? I think... You know, I think everybody has those stories, and I think the reason people think I'm as silly as I am is because I can... Because they relate?

I can self-deprecate and tell the story. Most people don't tell those stories. Oh, I think those stories are actually stories that if people did it as much or even once, that they would find very funny and to repeat, even on a broadcast. There's nothing embarrassing about it at all. I think when it becomes an issue is when, you know, five times a year, you say, I've got to tell you this story, you're not going to believe it.

And it's another similar, you know, coolly wandering story or coolly lost something story. That's all. That's all I'm saying. There's nothing harmful. There's nothing harmful about it. So I, one thing that you didn't, did you watch the Baltimore Pittsburgh game on Wednesday? I watched some of it, but I watched towards the end because I didn't realize that it was not an 830 game. I had a lot of things going on that day. Sat down was very enthusiastic about watching Robert Griffin turned it on, and it was almost over.

So I'm going to keep this short and sweet. Tommy and I talked about this yesterday. It was honestly, from my perspective, Tommy agreed with me. It was one of the worst performances by a starting quarterback this year. It was awful. Griffin's post game was about the injury. He ended up having an injured hand. hamstring and he really felt like if he hadn't gotten injured, they were on the verge of winning the

game. And then, you know, how he always talks about his guys and his guys came up to him and said, don't worry about it. We got your back. We know if you would stay healthy. You would have won the game. It was just, it was like, it was a repeat of what we've heard in the past. But anyway, I got this tweet from Nick. Nick said, man, Sheehan, you really have it out for Griffin. I thought he played pretty well. Did you see that 40-yard run? He looked like the old RG3. There were a couple of others, too. I guess people were upset. It's interesting to me just still how in this, we're eight years after the fact, and there are still people who think that he got

a terrible deal here, that somehow he got screwed, that somehow the rest of the NFL has conspired to keep him, you know, from being the star that he should be on the field. Look, to be honest with you, in watching the game the other day, one of my boys was so excited about it. You know, he's always been sort of, I think RG3 needs another chance. And, you know, especially now with the way Lamar Jackson plays, he's on the perfect team. And one of my sons was absolutely convinced that Griffin was going to look like Jackson in this game. And, you know, he can still run. I mean, he did have a 39-yard run. And he was seven carries.

for 68 yards, and the one drive that they nearly scored on was really set up by that 39-yard run. The dude was 7 of 12 for 33 yards. He got sacked three times on 15 dropbacks. We need to understand something as no matter what we feel about him, whether we don't like him or we like him. He can't do it. Like, he's done. This was the chance for him. to show something after two or three years that he could even be a backup in this league. And he's not even a backup. On a team who has a system that is suitable for him, perfectly designed for him. Again, I preface all of that after the fact prefacing it.

They were without a lot of players. They were without a lot of preparation time. You know, it was a weird setup for this game. I understand all that. He is blind. He can't see the field. Nothing has improved from that standpoint. So I actually believe that, first of all, he's hurt. There's a chance Jackson won't play in the next Ravens game, which is against the Cowboys on Tuesday, Cooley. That is an 805 start on Tuesday. I have a feeling that even if he is healthy, Trace McSorley is going to be the backup. I think Baltimore saw what they needed to see. Which is, this was, you know, whatever.

This can't happen again if we're in a position where we've got to play our backup quarterback. Anyway, you didn't really see it, so it really doesn't matter, but I wanted to respond. I watched a bunch of the highlights and a bunch of the stuff from it. And remember what I told. We talked once this week, and you asked me how I thought he would play. And I think I remember telling you something like 12 of 28 for 135 yards. Right, sacked a bunch of times and a couple turnovers. I said he won't play well.

Yeah. And he'll throw, yeah, and he'll have two picks. He's not the guy. He's never going to be the guy again. He had one very special season in a year of offensive innovation to an offense that he had really understood well from being a Baylor. But he doesn't, I've known people that know him from other organizations. I don't want to criticize the fact that he is an incredibly hard worker physically.

I don't know if he truly knows how to prepare, even at this point, as a quarterback. I don't know if he knows. I'm not saying that I know he does not know. But I know people that have worked around him in different organizations and back to Cleveland, and obviously back to Washington. And then I watch him. and I watched trust me

if anybody watched film of Robert Griffin more than me that wasn't a coach on a staff I'll be amazed but it's just not there and I don't know if it's something happened where

he felt that he needed to really hold the ball longer than he should hold the ball if he felt that he needed to truly show people that he was a pocket quarterback, but he doesn't have pocket rhythm, and he doesn't have fast enough eyes

getting from one to two to three to four, and that hasn't improved. So to your point, Baltimore has seen enough. I will bet you anything on that. The question is, what do you do with it? You know, to me, Baltimore seems like they're a need three quarterback type of team, but nobody else is going to pick him up. You could, you could, like, he's not, you could, like, he's He'll clear waivers. So I think at this point with all the COVID stuff, they'll probably just IRM, but then move on. Yeah. I just, and I like Trace.

I think everyone from the Northern Virginia area is interested in Trace McSorley as anybody in the league. We went to Briarwood's High School in Ashburn and had such a. tremendous career as a competitor at Penn State. And I think Baltimore's got to start thinking what is Trace McSorley as our backup. Yeah, I do too. Anyway, I just, I find it amazing that anybody watched that game and actually thought he played well. Yeah, people don't want to be wrong, dude.

You know what? But you can't stake your claim to not being wrong based on that tape. he had a nice run. He had a couple of nice runs, and then he came up. By the way, the bottom line is, even if let's just say he went what, I mean, if he had done what you said, it would have been a banner day compared to the day that he had if he'd gone 12 for 28 for 135 yards with a couple of picks. He had a pick six, he had a fumble on two of his first three drives.

And again, with 7 of 12 for 33 yards. But even if he had had that kind of a day, I just don't know It's just He can't Oh, where I was going with this is He can't stay healthy He's breakable

He's always been breakable As a football player He's just, he'll never ever, ever If he had played great the other night And then got injured at the end And no one's going to give him that opportunity Because they know he'll never last 16 games

Never last 16 games Anyway. Completely. I was, yeah, but in all, in all fairness, if you wanted to end it right there, he did play the best defense in the NFL with nobody on offense. Right. No, and no little, very little time to prepare. He could play better than that.

Yeah. Probably. You know, the next game would probably be, you give him some of his guys, which everyone needs, and you give him a defense that's not really what I think is the best defense in the league, then he's going to have a better performance. But you see what he looks like when things aren't well, and it's not going to go that far uphill. I don't know.

Yeah. I think that there's just, for Robert, there's too long of a runway to ever really take off. It's too far of a climb right now. I agree. Can't get up to speed. Agreed. All right. We're going to take a break when we come back.

I've got a question Washington football team related that I will ask Cooley. Let him answer it. I'll answer it as well. And it deals with what we're expecting Monday when they face Pittsburgh. Right after this word from one of our sponsors. Angelo, happy birthday, brother, Aris. Make sure you treat your father right on his birthday. Anyway, here's the question.

that I asked callers this morning. Are you ready for this one? I want you to... I love that I get the call segment question. Well, because... I'm ready. Of course I'm ready. Because I actually think that this is an interesting time to consider this.

And let me give you the setup. No, I'm going to ask you the question first. I'll ask you the question first, and then I'll tell you why I'm asking you the question. So the question is this. Is Monday going to reveal a team where we should... say at the end of the game against Pittsburgh, well, that's a back-to-reality moment for us. You know, that's a game in which they got totally exposed for what they really are. Or is it going to be a moment where we say, wow, that was their announcement to the rest of

the league that they are not only a team playing well, but they're actually right now, despite their record, you know, a decent team. And I bring that up because, look, I think think we would all agree based on the last six games that they are playing much better than they played in their first four or five games. Their last six games, they're three and three. The three losses are by a grand total of seven points. And in their last outing, they absolutely destroyed their archival on Thanksgiving Day, scoring 41 points. By the way, J.P. Finley put out this tweet last night, as I digress here, for a moment, that they scored 41 points for just the sixth time in 50.

40 or more points for just the sixth time since 2005. And he said each time they scored 40 plus, they lost the following game. The headline there, the lead really is that in an age of lots of points and lots of offense, this team in 15 years has only scored 40 plus six times. But I'll leave it at that. The last one was the Green Bay game, the 42 to 24 Sunday night game. game in which they lit up the Packers, and then they lost on Thanksgiving four days later to the Cowboys in that shootout in Dallas 31 to 26. Anyway, so here they are, you know, a team that

has played better. I think they're, you know, and I made this case to Tommy yesterday, that, you know, the old Bill Parcell's line, you are what your record says you are, to me is bullshit in the middle of a season. At the end of the year, if you want to look at the season as an entirety, you know, in aggregate, and you finish 5 and 11, you say, well, that's what you were. You know, from September until, you know, January 2nd or whatever, that's what you were. You were a 5 and 11 team. But in the midst of a season, you know, like right now to me, Pittsburgh, their record says they're the best team in the league. I don't think they're the best team in the league at 11.0.

I think Kansas City's better than they are. I think Tennessee might be better than they are. Washington's a 4-7 team. I don't think the way they're playing right now reflects a team that's 4-and-7. record doesn't say who they are right now, in my opinion. I think that they, you know, they're playing more like a 500 team right now. But to get to my question, the setup for it is that this is the first legitimate good opponent, like legitimately very difficult opponent they've had in two months. The Rams were the last really good team they faced. It's almost two months

ago. They've played the Giants twice, the Cowboys twice, the Lions and the Bengals since. And so this is very much a measuring stick game. And I'm curious to find out from you, are they going to be exposed for what they really are, which is a bad team on Monday? Or is this going to be like a coming out party where the rest of the league watching this game realizes, man, you know what, that Washington football team, they're actually pretty decent. Which is it going to be? I think you need the next three games as that barometer, or at least the next two games. I just, I don't know if you could truly hang your hat on this game in general in a positive way.

Pittsburgh played two nights ago. they are way short rest coming into this game, way short preparation. Washington got an extra day and Washington's healthy. So when I look at this game, I think that you could have a couple different things exposed. One, we could say they're really becoming a good team. Two, it could be disaster. Or three, I think you say their offense just isn't good enough, but they're getting there. which I think is probably the likelihood that the defense plays well,

keeps them in this game, and that the offense struggles throughout, that they don't run it as effectively, and that Alex really probably isn't a guy that gets the ball down the field consistently in a game. And they throw underneath a lot, and they end this game with 280 total yards, 275 total yard, with no real dynamic scare you big play weapon. besides Terry.

I think it ends up kind of just being a, yeah, they're a pretty good middling team. But I think it's more interesting, too. Any of it is your first evaluation of what a team is. How many times have we ever looked back on a season and said, they're a great 5-11 team? Really not, the record was not in how good they were. Never. I think that Washington could be a good,

seven and 19 that you say, well, if they had won another game, or they, like, I don't, they're better than we thought they were, but Duane was a problem for them. Duane was the biggest,

having no quarterback is a massive problem. It really set them back in the first few weeks, although they won the Eagles game. I just, I just don't know if this game tells us exactly who they are. I think you learned through the next couple weeks. I mean, I understand what you're saying.

I do, but given the setup where Pittsburgh has, you know, this short, you know, turn around and Washington's had this long lead-up, if the results really ugly, it may be more exposing because they couldn't take advantage of maybe a decent setup. Pittsburgh, short prep, Washington, plenty of time. Pittsburgh losing Bud DePree to a torn ACL, you know, arguably. one of their best four or five players on a really, really good defense. And so it could, you know, it could end up if they play really poorly and they get run out of the building even more exposing of them, much more of a reality check on the negative side.

If they were to play really well and win the game, and I actually think they have a chance to win the game, I'm not going to bet them on the money line or anything like that. that. I think they have a really good chance to cover. Vegas is telling you that they actually think Washington has a chance. That number is now down to eight, seven and a half in some spots. They were a 14-point favorite over the Cowboys. They were a double-digit favorite over a depleted Ravens team as well. Remember, the Cowboys with Garrett Gilbert almost beat this team. I just don't think Pittsburgh is that I think they're a really good team. I don't think they're a really good team, I don't think they're an elite team.

You know, obviously if they were playing Kansas City this week and they lost 35 or 28, 24, you would be like, whoa. But if they lose 28 to 24 to Pittsburgh and they're 4 and 8, but the Giants lose and the cowboys lose and the Eagles lose, I think, you know, if they have a legitimate chance to win this game, too, it'll just feel different. But you're right. It's very possible we could come, you know, come Monday night at 8 o'clock. say, I don't know if we learned either one.

I think that's possible. But this is the first chance to measure this new and improved, if you believe it to be new and improved, against a really upper, legit upper tier team. And by the way, you might get that the following week and the following week after that, to your point, the 49ers are getting healthier. They're already good on defense. And the Seahawks are obviously legit good. And they are actually improving on defense as well.

So maybe you take the three games and you sort of come out of that and say, well, what do we have here? But I think, you know, I think we'll learn something Monday. One of the things coolly that I loved about the Dallas game, and we didn't have a lot of time to break it down on Friday last week, I love the way they've been tackling and playing defense. I think it's the sign that I usually look for in a team that has a certain level of toughness and is going to be a difficult team to just bury week in and week out, even if they're, you know, know, not, like I compared this this morning, one of my call, Bobby in North Carolina. Bobby said, Kevin, do you think this is more like the Joe Gibbs' 1981 team, his first team?

And I said, that's not the comp. It's the Marty Schottenheimer team that I loved because Marty's team turned it around with hard-nosed, physical, good tackling defense. They had Tony Banks and Kent Graham at quarterback. They didn't do much offensively. They started to do just enough. but defensively they really got better and improved, and that's why they became a really competitive team,

even though they lost some games to teams that they probably should have beaten down the stretch to finish 8 and 8. But I don't know, we'll see. I'm expecting them to play well. Here's what I think you're really – I think the defense is good. And this could be a game where they give up 31 points, and I'm still going to think the defense is good.

there might be it might be a situation where they didn't make the plays but I do believe this defense is going in the right direction right it just needs a couple key pieces to be an excellent defense but they have enough they have enough guys that can kind of take over a game or making a place to really make it hard on an offense once they get a couple key components I think this defense is really really talented so even if they give up third 31, let's say they lose this game, 31 to 7. I'm not going to say they're a bad football team. I'm going to say they haven't quite figured it out.

They need a couple pieces on defense. The guy you're going to learn a lot about is Scott Turner, in my opinion. Yes. Scott Turner's got to have balls in this game. He's got to be great with understanding what Pittsburgh's trying to do to him. He's got to be great situationally with how he wants to find ways to take shots. he's got to be great at designing a run scheme that takes advantage of some of Pittsburgh's fronts. You learn a lot about Scott Turner and his growth as an offensive coordinator.

To me, he's been as intriguing as anybody, and I know that something silly. I have to have to be able to see, but he's had some games this season where you've seen some things and went, I think Scott's got something to him. And then he's had some games where I think he's lacked confidence in his players. And I don't like that as an OC. I don't like the games where you're going to throw 22 screens. And I get it to Baltimore, and that might be the only thing we can do. And look, we did get yards guys.

But I don't, that's not growth as an offense. I've seen growth as an offense over the last few. Scott Turner and Alex Smith are going to be the two guys that you really find out about in this game. Although I think we do know about Alex Smith. What the last, what you'll find out about Alex or this team is, is Alex Smith managing the game enough for them to have a chance to win a game against a good team? Are they good enough for Alex to manage a game and have a chance to win against a good team? Because I don't see Alex's really being ever much more than that.

Aside for maybe three or four games a year, two or three games a year, we go, whoa, I think the rest of them, you could say competent play. And so the question would be is competent play by the quarterback, and good play calling by the coordinator, enough for them to win ballgame right now. You'll learn a lot about that. I would mention to people who haven't listened to the Wednesday podcast where Cooley evaluated the offensive players and graded the offensive players from the Dallas game to go back and listen to Cooley's discussion about Alex Smith because I actually brought it up this morning because

I thought it was very interesting. It was your first evaluation of him since he's taken over as a starter where you said he was very much just a guy. It was a C performance from him. And one of the reasons was, and we talked about this last Wednesday before the game, even though Dallas was not a good defense and had given up a lot of yards on the ground, Dallas had some speed in their front seven. And they've been able to pressure the quarterback. And so this is where on Monday, when you said Scott Turner, I'm like, yeah, Scott Turner's got to figure out a way to move the ball and protect the quarterback. at the same time.

And I think that they figured out that way against Dallas to a certain degree, but you could run the ball against Dallas. You can't run the ball against Pittsburgh. It's not going to be as easy. So this is going to be a real challenge against a team that has speed, athleticism, can really get after the quarterback, but also can stop the run. This will be the biggest challenge yet for Turner with a quarterback of his choice.

You know, against Baltimore, he didn't really have a quarterback. quarterback of his choice against the Rams. I think that Rams game, you know, look, the first half, they did have a drive, and then the starting quarterback who had prepared for the Rams got hurt, and that was Alex coming in for his first game. This is going to be... It was also their worst defensive game. Oh, by far.

They got gutted in the first four drives of that game, or the first three. First three. They didn't have a stop until late in the second quarter. So that was a bad game all around. You know, it's funny, because I want to clarify this on. Alex, though. Because when you say just a guy, I actually, as a quarterback said C minus and then said C. Yeah, you moved to two C. And I thought about it even more because you say manage a game and that's gotten such a bad rap over the last 10 years because coaches have said it as analysts.

And then I think a lot of people understand that is not going to turn the ball over for you. That's not managing a game. Managing a game is getting your team in the right look. in the right formation, having a sharp cadence, getting the right checks. Managing a game is what a lot of young quarterbacks cannot do because they can't mentally facilitate their offense. Alex is really good at the line of scrimmage, and he is really good at keeping them on pace and on tempo with what they're trying to do on offense. He right now is just a guy in terms of seeing the field, making throws down the field, some of that post-snap stuff.

The pre-snap stuff is excellent. And so just think about this, though, when you hear managing the game, not you per se, but it's not he throws checkdowns instead of interception. There's a lot more that goes into managing a game, and that's what you get from Alex Smith. It's a professional quarterback who can run your offense. he just might not make all the big throws that you want him to make. That's to me managing a game. I totally understand that. The big difference in your evaluation on Wednesday versus the Bengals or the Detroit game or the giant game

is that you said he missed a lot. You know, you pointed out several throws that he missed and that was, you know, for whatever reason. And again, I think they faced a faster and more threatening front. than they had in their previous games too. But you're not going to get a bigger test than the one you get on Monday against a defense, even though, you know, they're hurt, even though Bud Dupree is gone for the year, and that's a big loss for them. You're still going to face a defense with T.J. Watt and with Cameron Hayward,

and then with Minka Fitzpatrick and Joe Hayden. I mean, this is a really, really good defensive team. It's a really good team. And the other thing I kind of laid out when we talked about the film from the game, and I think this has gone back to two or three weeks, is the run game was really effective. But if I'm watching Scott, he laid out some real tendencies over the last couple weeks. And as far as running the football, you know, under center and pistol, you're going to see a lot of gap scheme runs. You're going to see some more zone scheme runs from the gun.

gun looks. You're going to see, there's just some things he laid out as tendencies. And in a very short week, a good coordinator will find a way to break those tendencies because that's all Pittsburgh has time to prepare for. So if he does a really good job of breaking tendencies, of changing some of his motions and looks to get to place that they haven't gotten to, to formationally getting to things they haven't gotten to, that will be impressive. And then you'll see if they can operate in that. Because there's tendencies, because you know that's the best way to, put your guys in position to win. That's why he's doing some of the things he's doing,

because he knows, man, we're better a gap team team if we go pistol, because the back can come straight downhill, that type of stuff. So this is a big challenge for him. And if you're watching it, the way I'll be watching it, I think he could have a, he could have

one of two things. You know, wow, this guy's, this guy gets it, or yeah, he's just calling he plays that suit his offense. You said something there that I wanted to clarify. You said that he's showing some tendencies, and then you said about Pittsburgh in a short week,

they'll be able to focus in on that. Why in a short week would they have more of an opportunity to catch onto the tendencies versus a longer week to prepare? They'll catch under the tendencies in a longer week, the same as they'll catch on to them as a shorter week. You'll catch on to the tendencies by going through every game once or twice. In a shorter week, you will not have time to prepare for the contingencies. Okay. In a short week, it sounded to me, I just misunderstood. It sounded to me like you were saying

that there was some sort of benefit for the Steelers in a short week. No, there's not a benefit, but they won't have as much time to strip and prepare some of the contingencies to go back to week three, four, and five to some of the looks that they potentially might see. I think in a shorter week, you don't have as much time to prepare your players for the entire gamut of possibilities. You prepare for the tendency. Got it. So he should break them, is all I'm suggesting. It's funny. As you're talking, I'm sitting here. I mean, I'm seeing, I see a couple of places that have now Pittsburgh just at minus seven and seven and a half. So I think that... Well, not comparatively, no. I mean, this line would have been 10. This would have been 10 before,

last week. The look ahead line was 10, 10, you know, 9 and a half 10 somewhere around there. Steelers, obviously the short week has something to do with that. And then Washington, looking the way they looked on Thanksgiving Day, has something to do with that as well. Anyway, all right. Let's get to the smell test and to the lock of the week right after I tell you about Windonation's current sale. They basically combine the two best opportunities they have during the course of the year into one. And that is they're buy two, get two free. All right.

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Schedule that in-home or online virtual estimate today. You can do it online with them. They'll come into your home if you don't mind that either, following all CDC guidelines. Don't miss this offer. Tell them that I sent you. 86690 Nation or windownation.com. All right, let's get to the smell test and the lock of the week. Kevin looks where the John Q public is putting their cash and does the opposite. It's time for the smell test.

All right, last week's smell test was seven and seven in Cooley. God, I missed out on what should have been a massive week. This has happened many times in the past. A lot of you, you know, that wager, you'll be like, God, if I just bet all the games that I liked, I would have gone, you know, I would have gone eight and four instead of four and four. But what last week was, was a huge week for the house. You know, the sports books had one of their biggest weeks, especially in the NFL. Washington was an anti-public favorite on Thanksgiving Day. Cincinnati, which I gave out was

Atlanta was, and I didn't give that out. I should have. New England was. I did give that one out that hit. The one I'm really upset about is I didn't give out the 49ers. I liked them. I played them personally. They won the game outright.

I don't know why I just didn't put them into the smell test last week. I don't know why I didn't because I liked them. I think I just forgot. And then I got on Lucky Cooley because on Friday, I gave out Philadelphia plus five. on the smell test, the game went off at six, six and a half, seven. And so most of you won on that selection. But I take the games when I give them out what the point spread is,

and sometimes I benefit from that, and sometimes I don't. In this particular case, I didn't. And therefore, I had a seven-and-seven weekend. Anyway, I got, I don't even know how many games I have. I'm just going to go through them real quickly because they're, are just, there's several college games. There's six college games in particular and six Sunday games. So I've got 12 games.

I'm going to hold off on the Monday night game, even though I'm pretty sure I will have San Francisco in the smell test when we get to Monday. But I'm going to wait because I don't want to end up with a bad number there. It wouldn't surprise me. That game is a pickum right now. I don't know which direction it's going to go. It'll probably stay at pickum minus one plus one somewhere around. there, but I think I'll like the 49ers, but I'll wait until Monday to give that out.

I might like Washington, too, but I don't know. Anyway, college football's a mess right now, but there are some games that are going to be played, and there are some big public plays on Saturday tomorrow. Texas A&M is laying six and a half to seven. I'm going to take the seven here. Okay, I'm going to start giving myself the half point that I'm recommending that you buy, because I'm not getting stuck. Actually, actually, it's fair in college football right now that you do that because there are games where you're watching. Well, Louisiana played yesterday.

They said, Louisiana hasn't played since Halloween. Yeah. Like, how the hell are they predicting this game? They've played Halloween. No, you're right. But, you know, I can find a Texas A&M plus seven somewhere anyway. So I'm sorry, Auburn plus seven. The public loves Texas A&M.

You know, Auburn's actually played well. Of course, they got absolutely, you know, crushed last week by Alabama, 42 to 13. That was after a couple of impressive wins in a row, not over great teams in Tennessee and LSU this year, but they looked good doing it. A&M, they did not cover last week as a 16-point favorite over LSU. LSU got a late score. A&M's really good defensively. Kellan Mon's playing at a level that, Personally, I didn't think he was capable of playing at. I'm not a big Kellen Mon fan. A lot of people like him as an NFL prospect as a third round guy. I don't. But A&M's played really well, and they are in the hunt for a playoff. They're the number five team just outside the top four. They beat Florida, but Florida's going to have the chance to play Bama in the SEC title game.

A&M will be left out of that game. They're laying seven. On the road at Auburn, the public really likes A&M. I'll take Auburn plus the seven. TCU is only getting a point against 15th ranked Oklahoma State. That one doesn't make sense. Take TCU plus the point. First Mac game, I think I've given out this year.

God, I used to give out so many Mac games, but the Mac started super late. It's been hard to figure out. But Western Michigan is 4-0. They're playing 0-4-Eastern Michigan. They're laying 13 and a half to 14, somewhere in that range. As you can tell, I'm going to take the plus 14. The whole world's on Western. Western, you know, is, I love, you don't you love that?

The whole world's on Western? Yeah, the entire world is betting this eastern western matchup. Oh, Coolly. Do you have any idea how much action the Mac gets, in part because they play on Tuesday night and Wednesday night, you know, people refer to it, better refer to it as Macion? There's a lot of action on these Mac games. Take Eastern Michigan plus the 14. I like Cal plus 10 against Oregon.

Cooley, last week, Cal was playing Stanford. I'd given out Stanford laying a point in a half. David Shaw is one of my favorite coaches. If you haven't seen this story about him and his brother, his brother was dying of blood cancer. And David basically saved his life by donating his bone marrow after multiple transplants had failed. It's one of the most beautiful touching stories.

ESPN ran it, I don't know, a month and a half ago. I love David Shaw as a coach. He's the most conservative coach in all of football, college or pro. Nobody punts more at the other team's 32-yard line more than David Shaw does. It's unbelievable. How many times do you see a coach with fourth and five at the other team's 33-yard line punt? How often does that happen anymore? It happens all the time.

We've got to back them up. We've got to back them up. It happens all the time with David Shaw teams. Anyway, I had them laying a point in a half last week against Cal. They were up 24-17 and punted from the 33-yard line. Cal comes down. They score touchdown with 50 seconds left in the game. And so now when you're laying a point in a half and it's 24-23,

you need them to make the extra point. and for the game to go to overtime, they missed the extra point. The extra point was blocked. Stanford wins the game 24-23. That was one of my losers last week. Anyway, Cal actually has a pretty athletic quarterback. This guy, Chase Garbers, can really move around a little bit. They're only getting 10 against Oregon.

And Oregon has not been impressive. I had Oregon State last week against them. I had UCLA against Oregon two weeks ago. I'm going to take Cal plus the 10 against Oregon this week. I think they cover. This will make you cringe, sorry, but you're going to have to play Virginia Tech. You don't have to play it. I'm going to play Virginia Tech again. They're getting 22 against Clemson in the Saturday night big game. I don't know why the Virginia Tech continues to be like this massive anti-public play. And the house, the bookman, the bookman.

have needed Virginia Tech just like I have multiple weeks in a row. They won one week for me. They're getting 22. I'm sure most of you were like, dude, that's got 63 to 7 written all over it. Okay. I'm going to take Virginia Tech plus the 22 because I know my bookmaker will need the game. And Oregon is laying 11. I'm sorry, Utah is laying 11 over Oregon State. Oregon State beat Oregon last week in that great game with that great young running back. I don't know why they're an 11-point dog. Utah must be pretty good. I'll take Utah minus the 11. Let's go to Sunday where the Falcons are catching three at home against the Saints. That's a no-brainer. The whole, you know, literally most betters are on New Orleans laying

the three. They crushed Atlanta just two weeks ago. That was a game. I think I had Atlanta. I don't think I gave them out in the smell test that week, but I think I bet him personally. New Orleans beat Atlanta 24 to 9. Now they're only laying three again. I'll take the Falcons plus the three to Texans plus three and a half at home against Indy. I think people are expecting Indy to really bounce back off of last week's loss to Tennessee after they beat Green Bay. Houston, even without Will Fuller, suspended the rest of the way. I think Houston's really good. I think Deshaun Watson is having, I mean, if they were a good team, Deshawn Watson would be in the running, legitimate running for the MVP. He might be the frontrunner. Like if they were

five and, you know, six and five instead of four and seven, Deshawn Watson might be the front runner for the MVP. I like the Texans plus three and a half. I like the Browns plus five and a half at Tennessee. You know, people are really on Tennessee now. Really good team. Big win last week. Maybe a bit of a letdown, although it's a, you know, it's a matchup between two eight and three teams. I think the Browns find a way to keep that one close. Another cringe-worthy smell test selection. Again, the Jets plus the nine, nobody's on them at home against Oakland. The Eagles, nobody's given them a shot plus eight and a half at Green Bay.

I'll take them. And then Denver's the biggest, Kansas City is the biggest public play of the weekend, by far. They're laying 14 in the Sunday night game at home at Arrowhead against Denver. They get, what, 25% of their fans in or 22% whatever it is in the state of Missouri. Missouri. I'll take Denver plus the 14. They'll have at least one of those four quarterbacks back. So there you go. Auburn, TCU, Eastern Michigan, Cal, Virginia Tech, and Utah tomorrow. And then Sunday, the Falcons, Texans, Browns, Jets, and Eagles, and Broncos. And then I think I'll probably have the 49ers on the Monday show.

What's your lock of the week? Did you just take every NFL game? No, I took 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 12 games this week. I had 14 last week. I had Denver last week. Obviously, that game gets voided because I had Denver on Friday plus 6 against the Saints, and the line went to 17. But, yeah, six college games, six pro games.

You were 2 and 0. You took two of my pro games. I'm not saying you took them. You liked two of my smell test pro games, and you went first. and you had the Bengals and you had the Patriots, and both of those hit. So you're on a bit of a role. Who do you like this week? I like Cleveland this week.

I think Cleveland's better than people give them credit for. I think Stefansky's done a really good job managing Baker Mayfield. Chubbs excellent. You know, Chubbs averaging like 12 yards of carry in the fourth quarter for Cleveland. That's like Derek Henry numbers. it is like Derek Henry numbers. This is a fun game, too, because it's two teams that, for me, run the type of offense that I like that I would want to run. They have more run-action pass than anybody else in the league between the two of them.

And Tannale's playing really well. I'm not sold completely on Tennessee's defense, especially the run defense. By no way am I sold on Cleveland's running. defense. But for some reason, I just, I don't know, you said Tennessee's better than Pittsburgh. You're smoking crack on that one, buddy. I don't see that. But I like Cleveland in this game. I absolutely agree with you on Stefansky. He's doing a great job. And to your point, he's doing a really good job with Baker Mayfield. You know, Mayfield is, Mayfield through 21 interceptions last year. He's 17 and 7 right now.

He's doing a good job of managing that offense. They've got a lot of weapons. I mean, they really do have a lot of weapons. They're an interesting team. You know, they barely beat Jacksonville last week. It's funny about Jacksonville. You know, we have not talked about Jay Gruden, I don't think, once this year. I don't think we have.

We have. We did the other day, actually. But more in relation to his time here, not with respect to the job that he's doing in Jacksonville. Have we? Maybe we have. You know, he's had three different quarterbacks. He's going to start Glennon here for a second straight week. He had the guy Jake Luton or whatever, following Gardner Minshew, who basically played a game hurt. They have a running back James Robinson that I don't think a lot of people know about from Illinois State.

He is... Not unless you're playing fantasy football. Exactly. Robinson is having a really big year, and offensively, Jacksonville's been moving the football, except against Pittsburgh, you know, in recent weeks. Pittsburgh basically shut him down. But they've had chances, you know, they had a chance to beat the Packers. They had a chance last week to beat the Browns.

They've lost two games by the identical score of 27 to 24. five in the last four weeks. They can move the football Jacksonville, Ken. Give Jay credit because there are a lot of different pieces down there. I mean, what does he have at receiver? Does he have Cole still at receiver? Yeah, Cole and DJ Charks are really good player at receiver. Yeah, and Chark was out last week against Cleveland,

and they still rolled up 25 points. This guy James Robinson averages 5.8 yards per carry. Jay, who never seemed to generate a running game, has a team that is decent offensively. I don't even know where they are overall in rankings, but it's not a bad team offensively, Jacksonville. You know, one of those teams, again, like you look at, and when you watch them play each week and they're close against decent teams like Cleveland, it just, that's the NFL. You can't just look at a team's record and think they have zero chance. I think the only team you can say that about this year, for the most part, has been the Jets.

Yeah, the Jets don't have any chance. But I, of course, have them in the smell test. They have a chance to cover. There's no doubt about that. Hey, I had one more thing for you. Okay. So I was going through all my old notes, and I've been putting all my stuff together for whatever reason. And I found this article that I have that was written by Bill Walsh in 1977.

It was when he was at Stanford, titled Developing the Young Quarterback. It's fascinating the entire thing when you go through it. We may go through one of these days, some of the fun things in it. But I've had seven or eight people on Twitter and friends reach out to me and say, Just call it play action. It's not run action, Chris. It's play action pass. That's what everyone understands.

Right. And when I started saying that last year, I just, I came to this conclusion that it's, why are we calling it play action? They're all play. And so I was rereading this article that I'd read a while ago. It's weird. It's printed. Like, it's an old printed deal. It was actually typed.

I have the typed version of it. You can see that it was typed, not on a computer, but on a typewriter. Right. And he was talking about some of the things you do with the quarterback and the steps and the drops that they take. And he was saying it's an imperative that on the run-play action that the quarterback carry out an excellent fake and that the running back be a part of it. But I read it again, I said they were calling it the run-play action. Oh, they were? It's run-play action.

for whatever reason that did get shortened to play action by everybody instead of run action that's what they were calling it then it was the run play action so now I think I'm in it I can be really smart with all of these fun new terms that we've come up with

and I'm going to call it the RPA run play action that's what they were calling it though that was that was the origination of play action was run play action but you'd like that history that I discovered a little bit Well, you know what I was always confused by?

In conversations that I would have with Mike Shanahan about bootleg, which has always been a big part of his offense. The keeper game. Yeah, he always referred, like, he would say, yeah, we ran that, you know, do you remember in the second quarter, we ran that keeper? That keeper? And I'm like, the keeper. Like, and I finally said to him, I said, when you say keeper, do you mean bootleg? And he goes, oh, yeah, yeah, that's exactly what I mean. Oh, okay.

Okay, because he calls it the quarterback keep or the quarterback keeper. And it's, you know, it's the zone stretch, reach it out, you know, fake handoff, and the quarterback keeps it and comes back the other way. And he's got, as you've described many times before, the different levels of throws that are coming back the other way, whether it's the fullback, the tight end, or the receiver down the field. Yeah. It's the quarterback keep. It's a quarterback keep. Actually, even in this article of Walsh, defined differently than the run play action,

it was the keeper game. Interesting. I think you get to where that arc looks like the arc of a boot, and then the quarterback's going to hold it against his leg. So it was the boot leg. Right. I could be wrong on that one. That's what makes sense.

Well, that may be it. But do you ever hear an analyst or somebody calling a game call it anything but bootleg? I don't hear anybody ever referred to it as a keeper. I've really only heard it to find his keeper in my life, though. I know, because you played for him. Or the naked game. But you played for him. You know, one of the reasons I remember confused me is, you know, this was, you know, during the period when he and Kyle were running read option stuff with RG3.

and when he would say on the quarterback keeper, I'm like, oh, is it a read option where the quarterback's keeping it? No, it was him, it's the way he describes bootleg. And I've heard Kyle. Yeah, we've heard the read option. Go ahead. No, I've heard Kyle also, like in press conferences after games, say, yeah, we got him a little bit on the keeper. On the quarterback keeper, and it's the bootleg. By the way, Bill Walsh, you know, he has.

one of the most impressive coaching trees of all times. Something that one of his contemporaries that he gets compared with a lot, Joe Gibbs, does not have a vast amount of former coaches that created their own mini trees. I mean, Walsh was Mike Holmgren, first and foremost. You know, Holmgren ended up, you know, producing Andy Reid. and John Harbaugh and Steve Marriucci, but Andy Reed was the big one off the Holmgren tree, who came right from Walsh.

Walsh produced Dennis Green, lots of guys off Dennis Green's tree, including coaches like today, like Mike Tomlin and Tony, you know, Tony Dungey for a while, Lovie Smith, who's still coaching in college. He had George Seafurt, who replaced him. Mike Shanahan came off of Seifert's

tree because he coached for Seafurt in San Francisco as his offensive coordinator when they won with Steve Young in 96. He had, who else did he have? Paul Hackett, here's the tree actually. Paul Hackett had Mike McCarthy, John Gruden, Bill Callahan, Jim Harbaugh. Then he also had Jim Fossel who produced John Fox. But you look at the Bill Walsh coaching tree, God. I mean, there are... There's a reason why as well. And this is funny because I I've always kept in touch with Al Saunders, who also worked with Walsh at Stanford during the time that I described that he had written this thing. And some of Walsh's early influences, look up the head coach at Stanford in 75, 76, 77. Right. You'll have to look it up because

I just, for whatever reason, I can't recall his name. But I was talking with Al on this, and Al without being prompted by any of the things that I just talked about, said, you know, it was really interesting, one of the things we did at Stanford, the head coach. Jack Christensen. Is it Christensen? Okay. Are you thinking of John Ralston?

John Ralston. John Ralston. Okay. John Ralston had told all of the assistant coaches on the staff that he wanted them to define in writing exactly what they wanted their players to do in every technique and define with this certain type of article exactly what it was. And I was sitting there holding this thing in my backpack thinking, oh, I know exactly what

you're talking about. I actually have the thing that Bill did. I don't know if I have the original document that he typed, but I have it in writing the exact thing that he did. Anyways, the point is, when you start to look at Bill Walsh, I found some other really cool things, too. I found a handwritten coach's notes that they staff. meeting Bill Walsh, 1996.

I don't know who it is. I just, it's dated, and I don't know who wrote those notes. How did you get them? I just, they were laying around somewhere. I don't even remember how I got them. They were just laying around somewhere. Someone gave them to me, or, I found them in my office. I don't know who brought them where it was.

I had a whole bunch of stuff. In the notes, it's so definitive how important it was to Bill. to teach his coaches. Right. He wasn't just going to teach his players. He was going to teach his coaches every single day. And he constantly taught his coaches how to teach the players, how to interact with the players, how to do everything you wanted to do.

You could read the Wall's book. You described some of these things. But when you see it written by another coach and the things they underline and the way they do things, Bill taught his coaches. It is gone by the wayside, I think now with everyone wanting to be innovative. and everyone wanting to be so intellectual with football that they forget to teach their coaches how to coach. And frankly, Kevin, being around coaches, a lot of my professional career, the good ones were teachers, the bad ones weren't. And that was really simple.

And it's not like these guys, a lot of them came from a teaching background. They just wanted a coach. and a lot of them just wanted a coach because they liked ball. I would imagine that, by the way, that's a really interesting perspective. And I've heard other people say that the best coaches are the best teachers. But there are coaches that I'm sure you played with that either A, had no interest in teaching or B, maybe wanted to teach but weren't good enough communicators to teach. sure

no question about that but you have to I think the good ones when I look at it were able to relate to you before they were able to teach you right and they had to be able to communicate

and so a lot of coaches just sit down and they go okay here we go let's go double right 80 outside when we're on 80 outside remember the two you're like okay

well let's talk through why we're doing some of these things the other thing is you have to know why you're doing things You did. To the good coaches. Well, I did, but I made it important to know what everything, what was going on with everything. I made that important to myself.

It was. It gave me an advantage. But if I, as a coach, they run this line and go this way, and a player is just fine with that, then they can't operate off script of that line in any capacity. They've got to know how to figure it out and why. Which also means you need... But it also means, right, that you need to acquire players who can learn and are coachable and are teachable. Because it goes both ways.

I think everyone, you start with that. I think you've got to start with some intellect. Or at least looking and desiring that quality because football is a complex sport. But beyond that, everyone can learn. you also have to teach your teachers or your coaches how to get through to different guys on different level. Some guys learn differently. Fred Davis learned different than I learned. Totally agree with you.

Totally agree. And so if you're not willing to communicate differently to other guys or spend different amounts of time with guys, then you're not capable of teaching them. Right. A lot of guys can just like you draw on a board and translate that. into their mind as I understand my responsibility. I think that's such a good point. I guess the point I was making is you have to be willing to learn, you know, as a player.

And there are sometimes, you know, you get people at that, you get people at any age that they've already got all the answers. They're not willing to learn. I would ask you one parting question here. You played for a Hall of Fame coach and you played for a borderline Hall of Fame coach also in Mike Shanahan. Which of the two, Joe or Mike, was a better teacher? Well, remember that Mike didn't necessarily teach. Mike was a CEO. Okay.

Then Kyle. For me, Kyle was not getting anything from Joe. Kyle, he communicated on the level that I love. He was snarky, sarcastic, witty. fun, incredibly thorough and incredibly detailed. And I personally thought a very good motivator. Joe was a lot of those things, too.

But it's also one of those things where Joe came in and installed on cardstock and Sharpie in an era where you have to engage a little bit differently. He probably was the

all-time best teacher ever in 1981 through 1993. They were both great teachers. I don't know. Joe was a great teacher. They both had qualities that were very different. And I think you've got to learn and take some of both of their qualities. Here, I knew Joe cared about me no matter what. I knew Joe loved me. So I would do anything for Joe, and I would learn for Joe. I didn't ever believe that Kyle loved me, or a lot of the players. We were dominoes more than we were his friend. And, you know, I'm

And you don't have to be friends. So I guess to answer your question, I think they're both good. I think they're both good in different ways. And you've got to find ways to get through to everybody. But you knew, because you've said this before, you knew that Kyle was going to be really good at this. I knew Kyle was going to be really good at this. I knew within two weeks of meetings that Sean was going to be a head coach in the near future.

it's hard to say early in my career because I wasn't watching as much as far as some of their leaderships. I was just there playing. But yeah, I think Rahe Morris is it. You from being around Rahim Morris is going to be incredible at it. I think there's a like that, you know, Mike McDaniel is a passing him coordinator for San Francisco right now. I think he could be an excellent teacher. You know, it's funny. You saw that whole staff and he just went, my gosh.

I thought Greg Williams was an excellent teacher. I didn't sit in on a lot of their meetings, but he was a great communicator with me. He helped me a lot. Greg did. He would sit down and say, this is what I'm seeing from you, this is what you're doing, this is what's good, this is what we noticed. Greg helped me a lot. He was a great coach.

So, yeah, we had, it's funny, I've been around a lot of really good coaches. I thought Al was tremendous as a coach. Yeah. Al and Kyle were similar with their install methods. but Al was engaging and entertaining. Kyle was that for me. He was entertaining. You've said that about Rahim Morris before,

and Rahim Morris obviously got an opportunity to be a head coach in Tampa, and it did not go well. I wonder if they'll give him, he's the interim head coach in Atlanta right now after he took over for Quinn. I wonder if they'll give him this chance. They played well. They blew out the Raiders last week. They actually, you know, they can,

definitely play major spoiler here down the stretch. They play the Saints again. They play the Buccaneers twice the Falcons do. I mean, they could basically eliminate Tampa on their own. They also play a game at Arrowhead against the Chiefs in week 16 next to last week of the season. You've said, God, you and others too, man, have said that about Rahim Morris. And I guess that first opportunity, he got that opportunity in 2009 as Tampa has. head coach, and he went 3 and 13, then they went 10 and 6, and did not make the playoffs, and then 4 and 12, and he got fired. So he was 17 and 31 overall when he was in Tampa.

I mean, here's what I would say, like if Arthur Blank called me tomorrow and said, you know, tell me about Rahim Morris. I would say he's one of the smartest guys that I've been around in the league. He knows offense incredibly well. He's coached offense. He knows defense incredibly well. but more importantly, he knows his emotional intelligence and understanding of his players, I thought was exceptional. Guys will play for Ruhi Morris.

And he shows that. He appreciates them. They appreciate him. There's a lot of positive qualities for Raheim. It's funny. You know, he's putting a bad spot in Tampa. Really, when you look back at that, it wasn't a good spot for him to really have a chance. But he had to take that job because how could you not take a head coaching job?

Sure. Sure. I mean, you know, we don't, for whatever reason, when we think of all of the head coaches off of Mike's staff, Kyle, LaFleur, and McVeigh, we never mention, you know, Rahim Morris. You do. But I think the public sort of forgets that Rahim Morris was on that staff, you know, for four years, three years, something like that. And he may end up becoming, now, you know, he's not off of. of the Shanahan tree. You know, I'm not suggesting that in the same way that Kyle is and in the same way that, you know, Kyle really almost off of Kubiak, but Kubiak off of Shanahan's tree. By the way, Kubiak's doing a great job right now.

If I, I don't know. Well, he sort of is off of the Shanahan tree as much as you would say Sean is, because Rahene and Sean were both just as influenced by John Gruden early in their careers as they were Mike Shanahan. Right, but Gruden isn't off. the Shanahan tree. Gruden, Gruden is off of the, you know, the, the, the, the Walsh tree. You know, he's off of... But Shanahan's off the Wall Street. Yeah, that's true. So they're all off the Wall Street. Yeah, they're all off the Wall Street.

Right. But Gruden came off the Holmgren side. And Shanahan came off of the Seaford side. But you're right. They all came from Bill Walsh, who by the way, really came from Sid Gilman. Sid Gilman has... Sid Gilman was the offensive guru who created, you know, Don Correale, which then created Joe Gibbs. And anyway, whatever. But there are also a lot of them off in talking to Alastonters. Look at the Stanford staff in like 70s.

Sure. Like up the John Rollins staff. Ralston, yeah. I mean, yeah, sorry, John Ralston stuff. But it's just amazing. me, you can track this back forever. Ultimately, I think it comes down to one thing. The best coaches learn how to relate to their players and teach their players.

I mean, when you put together ten guys, if you're no guys and you know who's smart, you put together ten guys and you can't come up with a plan to operate on a level, on a schematic level, then you're ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, you've got to be able to, I think, trust your guys truly. And those are the staffs that really start being good innovators. But if you can't create a scheme with 10 guys that have been a part of football, something's wrong.

It's not that. You know, John Ralston, do you know where he started his coaching career? Utah State. Yeah. Yeah, he was at Utah. He was at Utah State, and then he went to Stanford. And at Stanford, the final two years at Stanford, He won the 1970 and the 1971 Rose Bowls.

And I would imagine that those were the Jim Plunkett teams because Jim Plunkett was the Stanford quarterback. I'm pretty sure in 1970, 71. And then he ended up as the Broncos coach in the NFL for five years. John Ralston was the coach in Denver. And he was replaced by the coach that took Denver to the Super Bowl. Red God, I'm forgetting his name now.

Right, it was pre-Dan Reeves. It was Red Miller. Red Miller was the coach that took Denver to the 77 Super Bowl loss of the Cowboys. Yeah, pre-Dan Reeves, exactly. All right, drive safely. That was really actually, I enjoyed that conversation. We could probably do this for four more hours, so.

We could. But you're driving and you want to get back on Bluetooth, and I am going to go enjoy the rest of my day and enjoy the weekend. We'll be back together on Monday previewing Washington, Pittsburgh.