The Kevin Sheehan Show - Plexiglass Kirk

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Kevin opened the show with the strange Kirk Cousins' press conference yesterday where he attempted without much success to convince people that he had a sure-fire way to avoid "close-contact" with those that have Covid. He talked RG3 as an ESPN analyst and then brought Sam Fortier/Washington Post on the show to talk Washington Football Team.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The podcast today presented by our good friends at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin, DC, and you'll get your first deposit matched halfway up to $1,000.

If you deposit $1,000, you'll see $1,500 in your account. if you use my bonus code, Kevin D.C. So it gives you an extra 500 to play with. If you deposit 500, you get an extra $250 to play with. They've got everything for UFC 265 tomorrow. And they've got the U.S. Olympic final in basketball, the USA right now, a 12-5-point favorite over France. That is bigger than I thought it would be.

I like the U.S. tonight, I think. France beat them, if you recall, in the, first game of these Olympics in the group stage. USA, France, I think it's 1030 tonight. You got to pay for it, though, I think on the Peacock Network. But go to my bookie, use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They've got everything there that you need relating to Olympics, relating to UFC 265, and relating to everything NFL related. And we had our first NFL game, preseason game, the Hall of Fame game. brutal to watch. But it was the NFL on television, and Dwayne Haskins played a lot of that game.

Was 8 of 13 for 54 yards. I did not watch a lot of the game. I saw some of it with Haskins in it. And, you know, it's the same thing I feel like I say every time I watch Dwayne Haskins play. He's got some talent. He's got some arm strength. He has some elusiveness to him. You know, the key for him is growing up.

You know, if he can be accountable, if he can be responsible, if he can be coachable, you know, he's going to get some chances because he's got legitimate talent. He's also a guy that when he's in there, you know, I don't think he really feels it. You know, I don't think he plays tight, you know, when he plays. But it was a preseason game. The Cowboys didn't play any of their big-time starters. And the Steelers won the game 16 to 3. Remember, a week from today, we'll be talking about the night before and the Washington, New England preseason game.

The skins open up their preseason schedule a week from last night in Foxborough against the Patriots. Tonight, they have a 20,000 capacity practice at FedEx Field. They're expecting 20,000, I think 25 in total, if you count the 5,000 premium seat holders. but they're expecting that those seats that they gave away for free. Now, the concessions I don't think are free, that they're expecting a full house. I think that will be interesting to see what kind of crowd they will get. I think it will be, in some ways, an early sign on what kind of fan response. What kind of fan response there's going to be early in the season?

Remember, they open with two straight home games against the Chargers on September 12th and against the Giants. that next Thursday night, that following Thursday night, at home as well. So tonight they are talking like they're going to have a sellout. We're going to have Sam 40A from The Washington Post on the show, and Sam will give us some thoughts on that and a lot more related to the football team. I will start, though, with the Kirk Cousins press conference from yesterday. I'm sure many of you are expecting me to somehow come on. and defend Kirk Cousins. I don't always defend Kirk Cousins, even though that's the reputation I have.

I think Kirk Cousins is a good NFL quarterback. I've always felt that. I don't think he's an elite quarterback. I don't think he's a great quarterback. I think he's a good NFL quarterback, somewhere between, you know, 12 and 14, somewhere on, you know, on that list of quarterbacks. Top half of the league starter, absolutely. I think he is also one of those guys that has to have a really good team around him to win. And he hasn't had that much during his career. But I am not going to defend Kirk Cousins today. Kurt Cousins, you may know, missed practice and meetings and everything else for the last five days on COVID-19 protocol. It was close contact. He did not test positive for COVID-19. Kellen Mond, the rookie quarterback from Texas A&M, tested positive for the virus. And Nate Stanley, a quarterback,

and Kirk Cousins were deemed to be in close contact. And per COVID-19 league protocols, they had to be held out for five days. According to the NFL, NFL Players Association protocols, a high-risk close contact designates that a player is also unvaccinated. It's very clear that Cousins is unvaccinated. It's also clear, based on his press conference yesterday, that he has no desire to get, vaccinated. So I'm going to start with this. I am a believer in your body, your choice. But when it comes

to the NFL and the rules that the NFL and the NFL players association have set up, where they are making it more uncomfortable for unvaccinated players and they are making it more punitive for teams with a higher percentage of unvaccinated players. I think personally it's selfish not to get the vaccine, especially if you are a quarterback or a team leader or a significant player. By the way, the Vikings do not have a legitimate NFL backup quarterback right now. Cousins is it. And that team has big aspirations this year. That team was terrible on defense and terrible on special teams last year.

And their team and their front office went out, Mike Zimmer, the head coach, and went out and added like seven players to their defense. They think they're good enough offensively. And they are, you know, from a talent standpoint, from a playmaker standpoint, from a quarterback standpoint, they are good enough to be pretty powerful offensively. They were last year. Their defense sucked last year. And their special teams were the worst in the league.

Kirk Cousins at 32 years old is the only legitimate quarterback on their roster right now ready to play in an NFL game. He is a supposed leader. I don't know what kind of leader he is. You know, Kirk has always been more on the quiet leader side, if you even want to call him a leader. Aloof is a word that many have sort of ascribed to him, but also super professional has been a word that has been used

to describe him as well. Totally reliable, totally accountable, totally responsible, etc. He's being irresponsible in this case. He should get vaccinated. This team is at risk of not having the season it wants to have if he ends up being as an unvaccinated player, you know, with more significant protocol standards set up for him, even though there's a new protocol situation with respect to testing that may not really discern or differentiate, excuse me, between vaccinated and unvaccinated. That hasn't been agreed to between the NFL and the NFL Players Association. I'll get to that a little bit later on.

Bottom line is, if you're unvaccinated, you are putting your team at increased probability of being at a competitive disadvantage. Your choice, your body, but if you're going to take all this money and be a part of a team with rules just like many people are having to make that choice in companies that they work for, or many students and teachers are having to make that choice at universities that they work for. Well, if those are the rules, they're not mandating it, but if you're putting other people at risk of losing money, your responsibility is to get vaccinated.

Now, my belief is you should mandate vaccines or you shouldn't test all together. I've expressed that before. But I really believe that they should mandate this. I don't know if they could get the NFL Players Association to agree with it. And if they're not going to be able to mandate it, don't test. None of these players are going to get sick. You know, I can have both views. I can understand that mandating would be the right thing competitively for this league and from a business standpoint.

But at the same time, if they're not going to do that, not testing isn't going to cost anybody in their league, their life much more likely than not. There are many other things that would cause serious illness than COVID-19 for a fit 32-year-old NFL player. We've all learned that, you know, and especially one that's vaccinated. And even one that's unvaccinated, the chances of this age group and this fitness group is a long shot. Now, just so you know, I'm not dismissing older, more vulnerable people in those organizations.

Those people do have a mandate on getting vaccinated. If you're part of a staff or part of a coaching staff, vaccines were mandated. The Vikings lost their offensive line coach. He left because they mandated vaccines. He didn't want to get vaccinated. So the players, however, it's not mandated for. So anyway, on Kirk, it's a selfish act. And by the way, I feel the same way about Chase Young as a, as debatable.

the best player, most talented player on the team and a supposed team leader, I think it's selfish for him not to get vaccinated. I do. But the bigger story with Kirk was this press conference that he held, where for 10 minutes, he talked. And what came out of his mouth was truly remarkable in terms of the level of ignorance and the wild sort of ideas that he has that will keep him from getting COVID-19. I'll read to you some of his quotes. Quote, I've come to learn since I've been at home that the tracers we wear actually showed

I was not a close contact, as I understand being a close contact, which is being within a certain number of feet. Cousins here speaking on why he was put into this COVID-19 protocol contact, you know, close contact situation. He said the challenge was the meeting room we met in was deemed to be too small for us to have been in, even if we were significantly apart from each other, the room was too small. Since we've, so we've since, excuse me, so we've since moved to a different meeting room. And as I understand it, had we met in the larger room, I would not have

mispractice because I was not a close contact is deemed by actually being in contact. So it was disappointing to mispractice in my entire college and pro career. I have not missed four practices. So to miss four practices in one week and not have COVID was frustrating. It was disappointing. Closed quote. So he's making an excuse as to why he was put into that close contact protocol. The meeting room was too small. Now, believe it or not, ESPN, through a source, confirmed that indeed Minnesota's quarterback room did factor into cousins being deemed to close contact. The meeting room should have been larger for the group of quarterbacks.

It wasn't as large as it should have been. So he was actually right about that. But this is where it gets bizarre. He said, quote, I do believe that as a leader of the team, it's very important to follow the protocols to avoid this close contact, because that is what it's going to come down to. Did you have a close contact? So I'm going to be vigilant about avoiding a close contact. I've even thought about, and get this one, should I just set up literally plexiglass around where I sit so this could never happen again? I've thought about it. it because I'm going to do whatever it takes. We're going to avoid this close contact thing and I look forward to making sure I'm playing for every game this year. Closed quote. What? A plexiglass surrounding you? Okay, what happens when you take the field, dude? Are you going to

surround yourself in plexiglass in the huddle? When people are breathing heavily and spitting and coughing and then, oh, by the way, in practice and in preseason games and then in regular season games, are you going to put plexiglass around you? What is he talking about? He thinks he can avoid close contact? He can't. We've already figured out vaccinated, unvaccinated, you know, social distancing, masks, nothing guarantees that you won't be a close contact and nothing guarantees that you won't get COVID.

Certain things increase the chances you won't get it significantly like getting vaccinated. It doesn't eliminate the possibility of getting it, but it increases the probability of not getting it exponentially. It also increases the probability that you won't get sick exponentially if you're vaccinated. What is he talking about for a fairly bright guy? That was about as ignorant a statement as you could ever hear. Troubling, troubling press conference from Kirk Cousins, if you're a Viking fan. If you're a Viking teammate, although they apparently are the lowest vaccinated team in the league, according to the Washington Post. Guys like Adam Thielen aren't vaccinated according to reports either.

Some of the other team leaders aren't. Plexiglass? I don't understand that I can't really fathom that somebody of, I thought intellectual ability could actually think that he could keep himself 100% away from being included. close contact given the job that he has, which is to play football with lots of people around him and in close contact with them every single day. Not to mention the fact that he does go home at night and his wife probably goes to the grocery store and she probably hangs out with friends and he's got kids and I'm sure there's some neighbors that he eventually talks to every once in a while. I mean, this dude's press conference was scary ignorant.

Anyway, look, your body, your choice. But if you're a part of a team and a team that's got rules and a team's league that has rules and you're putting your coworkers at risk of not getting paid and at risk of losing, then if you really are dead set against this, then don't play and don't take the money. he talked about this being a very private health matter, and he said that he had a very productive conversation with his head coach Mike Zimmer. And part of that, by the way, was odd as he described that. He said, we can meet in the indoor, we can meet outside. And I told him if it means outside under a goal post in January, if that's what it takes to get to the playoffs and be in playoff

games and win playoff games, then that's where we're going to meet. We're going to avoid this close contact thing with everything we possibly can do. I was not aware of the meeting room size being an issue. Otherwise, I would have spoken up and said, we obviously can't meet here. Close quote. Dude, you could have gotten close contacted outside of that meeting room, even if it were the right size. You can get close contacted in practice. You can get close contacted in a game.

You can get close contacted with your family members. You can get COVID in ways that you have no idea. You can get COVID. So many people are like, how did I get it? I was wearing the mask. I was socially distancing. Wow. He's focused totally on close contact. Plexiglass. Meeting under a goalpost. Weird. Irresponsible. Ignorant. Selfish. It's the only way to describe it.

One other quick thing before we get to Sam Fortier from the Washington Post. Robert Griffin III going to television. I mentioned this when he weighed in draft night, by the way, on Kirk Cousins. I think he's going to be really good at this. I do think he will be a very good analyst. I would think that ESPN will start him on college games. Apparently, he will be doing games and studio stuff. And I think that he'll be really good at it.

I think he's a great communicator. I think he clearly knows the college game. And I think he has more credibility doing college than he would doing pro. And I think that he won't be afraid to, to call it as he sees it. I think he's going to be pretty good at this. The other thing, too, back to the college thing, I think he should do college.

I think the credibility with him in the NFL won't be nearly as high. He, of course, knows football, and he can do the NFL games. And maybe he'll become, you know, one of these real outspoken guys and go after some people. You know, the thing about Griffin that's interesting is that I think he's going to be one of these guys, at least for the next year or two or maybe three years, that is constantly talking about how he should still be out there.

And the league has weighed in on him. I mean, look, for those of you that argued with me for the years following 2013 and said, you don't know what you're talking about, and Shanahan's it, you know, completely insane. When Mike told me, you know, this was during the 2013 season, he literally said to me, You know, Griffin's career is in peril, in peril if he doesn't quickly turn around sort of the way he's perceived by staff, teammates, et cetera, especially coaching staffs.

And I remember saying that and people said, what are you talking about? Shanahan, have you looked at Shanahan's record, et cetera, whatever? Look, the league has spoken on Griffin for years. He's not deemed by NFL people to be an NFL quarterback. It's a shame. I still believe that if the owner had steered clear and said, nope, you are to listen to your coach. He's the only one that matters. Don't come to me. Don't use me. I am not your friend. I'm the employer. I'm the owner of this team. There is hierarchy here. Your coach is who you go to. I think if the owner had handled it that way and he had been forced to allow Mike to coach him rather than sort of participating in Mike's exit, And remember, you know, they were free when Jay Gruden got hired, free to do what they wanted to do. And that didn't work out either. But I think the best thing for him would have been to stay with Mike and Kyle and Matt LaFleur and obviously all of the coaches that they had on that staff.

You know, that he had the best coaching staff that you could possibly have for a young football player. to have Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVeigh, Matt LaFleur, etc. You know, to be able to learn from would have been his best overall course and path, I think, to becoming maybe more of an NFL caliber quarterback, even though I think the big thing with him was always that he was injury prone. Anyway, I think he's going to be a good broadcaster. I do. And I don't think any NFL team is going to give him a number.

shot. They'd have to be super desperate to give him another chance. But in the meantime, he's not going away. We'll see him, you know, front and center and maybe turn into a significant, you know, analyst, football analyst, would not shock me at all. Okay, when we come back, Sam 48 from the Washington Post will be our guest, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, let's bring in Sam 48 to the show. Sam, of course, covers the Washington football team for the Washington Post. You can follow him on Twitter at Sam for TR. We'll get into some specific stuff about what you've seen being out there training camp so far.

But with respect to tonight, 20,000 expected at the stadium for this practice. Do you think that they will have 20,000 there tonight? that is the number of the figure that I've heard. So it's possible it's lower, but that's, I think, what they're expecting. I think that's the total number of tickets that they made available. I think that that actually would be quite an early sign, Sam, that it would be sort of tangible evidence, if you will, that there is increased optimism and excitement for this team heading into this year.

Absolutely. I think there's a couple factors at play. One, I think you're looking at, okay, how much momentum, how much excitement did you build coming off that, you know, playoff loss, but an exciting game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and everything that Ron Rivera was able to do. But I also do think now that we're talking about this, I wonder how much, if at all, the concern around the coronavirus resurgence

will play in whether or not people decide to come out tonight. because, you know, not to make things hyperlocal, but, you know, my, I usually play an indoor basketball run every Friday, and this morning it got canceled for further notice, and obviously the mask mandate was back in D.C. Certainly, I think people are more concerned about the Delta variant now than they were before. So I wonder, you know, how each of those factors impact how many people, if at all, we see tonight. You know what, Sam, so up until the pandemic, I was still, and I'm older than you, but I was still, playing two to three days a week, two days a week typically. There was a time probably 10 years ago. I was playing three to four days a week. And it's one of the biggest regrets or results for

me during this pandemic, because as you know, there's no better cardio and all around workout than basketball. And, you know, when you're, and did not have that, you know, for the last year and a half, we haven't gotten our group back together. There was a group of literally like 30 guys and three gyms a week that would get rented a year round. And not having that, I don't even think I've talked about this on the podcast with Tommy or Cooley or anybody else. Not having the ability to go out and play hoops once to twice a week has definitely been one of the reasons that I put on a solid 12 to 15. pounds over the last year and a half. So your group got back together.

You started playing again. Yeah. Well, the thing for me was, so, excuse me, until April 2019, I lived in L.A. And when I moved out there, I found, you know, just through a friend of a friend, the best pickup basketball run that I ever had. And then I moved here, started covering the Nats. And, you know, baseball season, there's almost no chance to stop, catch your breath and play some hoops. So after that season, and after that's one of the world.

World Series, I really, you know, tried to focus, hey, let's find a good basketball. I was out in Falls Church at this Mormon Church. I was at Sidwell Friends. Yep. You know, I was going around a bunch of different places, and I really found one that I liked West in Kalorama. It must have been February 2020, and obviously I played there two times, and it got, it got bounced, right?

So it opened up, I want to say late May. so I got a good six weeks of running in and I was out there three or four times a week just because I love it. That's not only my favorite form of cardio, but it's my favorite way to just get out, see the city. You know, it's at 6.30 a.m. I like getting up early. So that was certainly one of my favorite parts post-pandemic,

and now we're back, man, and I've got to say, it's disheartening itself. Yeah, there are a lot of consequences to all of this. That's not a serious one. But ultimately, you know, it can be, you know, because people have these outlets and they need these outlets. And, you know, there was a lot of isolation. There was a lot of, and by the way, to be fair, a lot of people took advantage of the last year

and a half. And they got out and walked a lot more and they ran a lot more and they biked a lot more. And they spent a lot of time. For me, and I have a feeling you're the same way, I loved and have always loved. Loved Hoops and I played it. But I need a competitive cardio outlet as well. I need something that's more fun than being on a treadmill. And I have a Peloton bike or being on a Peloton bike.

And I've missed it so much over the last year and a half now. Anyway, whatever, enough about us. Let's get back to the football team. I do think, I really, I'm very curious to see the turnout. tonight. And I think a lot of what will happen, you know, with the Chargers and the Giants games to start the season. We've already seen, you know, there's definitely a push and a marketing push with, you know, opportunities that never existed before with respect to tickets. So obviously, they're not sold out yet. But I have a feeling early in this season. We're going to see a

different live response and even a different television response than we did at the end of 2019, or even for the entirety of 2019, which was a dismal season understood. But that was the new low and the lowest of all lows at the end of 2019. Absolutely. I mean, I remember, you know, after that natural series run,

they sent me out to FedEx Field for that Lions game where the tickets, I think, were as low as $4. And so I understood certainly that exasperation from the fan base, especially, you know, I remember talking to a season ticket holder who was sitting up in, you know, I think it was, you know, that third bowl,

and he was talking about how much he paid for his season tickets, and now he was the only person in his section. So the strides, I think, that they've made sense, and obviously whether they stick is a whole separate conversation, whether, you know, Ron Rivera really can make this team competitive and get people back out again. But I'm very curious to see, because this is going to be, I think, a good barometer, like you said, for those chargers and Giants games,

how much of that excitement is real and how much of that is, you know, at the, you know, okay, maybe, maybe last season was a fluke, right, exactly, wait and see. So will it take them winning, you know, or will it take them having a solid start to the season to get people out or are people already bought in? I mean, you would probably have a better sense than that to me because my understanding of this is that the fan base has really, it's going to be hard. for them to thaw out or soften up after 20 years of this. Yeah, I mean, I have felt this way for a while because I use myself as sort of a barometer for this. I mean, lifelong, born and raised

fan and Washingtonian and former season ticket holder and not just, you know, because of the job that I have. I've been a fan of the team. And my level of passion has diminished significantly. you know, in recent years. And I think that that's probably the same for many. Now, with that said, I, you know, from a football operation standpoint, they are much more competent and have been over the last year and a half, you know, than they've previously been. They have better players. And, you know, I think that they could actually have a decent team. I don't think they're going to be a great team, but I think they could have a competitive team. And in that, in that division, as we see it right now, things change, they could be, you know, competitive. So I think the key is they got to, I mean, one bad five-day stretch of a loss at home to

the Chargers and a loss at home to the Giants could absolutely be deflating to what they have right now, which is at least for the moment, more people's attention than they've had in, you know, three or four, maybe five years. Absolutely. And I think that really starts with offense. I know, you know, I know we're talking big picture right now. But to me, when you think about the collection of talent that you have on defense, which to my understanding is the best they've had in a really long time,

I think it then shifts the focus to, okay, you know, you brought in the guys. It's obviously well-known in Fitzpatrick, but you still have an offensive coordinator who probably, you know, has a lot to prove this season. Scott Turner. and can you put together two winning efforts at home and show people, hey, you know, last year was not a fluke, last year was not a product of being in the trash and a CEs. You know, it's kind of validating, hey, we are taking those steps. And it's almost a litmus test, I think, you know, for what the rest of the year could be. Even though it's, I mean, what would you say?

Would you say that's a compressed part of this, this five days? is almost playing into that because it's going to be two judgments back to back so quickly? Yeah, it's sort of high risk, too. It's not, you know, wasn't their choosing, obviously. It's the way the schedule laid out. But I think the Giants actually on paper might be a little bit underrated. I think they've got a pretty decent roster. Now, they've had some injuries and they had this big brawl the other day, you know, at training camp. And I think the Chargers, by the way, were also a seven and nine team last year, just not a playoff team because of the division they were in. But their losses were all close losses, and they appear to have the answer quarterback.

So they're already an underdog in week one, and they'll be a slight favorite as it stands right now in the second game. And then they won't be a favorite again. You know, I think it's a worthless exercise. I'll preface what I'm going to say with saying these look-ahead point spreads that go throughout 17 weeks are ridiculous. However, with that said, you know, they'll be a favorite against the Giants. And right now, if all the teams on their schedule are what people think those teams are going to be, they won't be a favorite again until probably a home game against the Cowboys in early December. Like every other game, even the teams that aren't that great, like the Broncos or the Panthers,

they play them on the road. So it's very possible to be underdogs. But whatever, that's looking ahead. And you probably talked a lot about the schedule as well on the quarterbacks they face and the offensive weapons on the teams that they face. It's quite daunting on paper anyway. We don't know what it'll look like when we get there. So let's talk about these first, you know, this first week and a half, two weeks of training camp. And what has stood out to you? I think this is always a time in which you have to be careful about making any declarations unless it's an injury. which is usually the real news that comes out of these things.

But what has stood out to you and to all of you guys that are covering the team on the beat and are out there a lot? Yeah, like you said, I think it's hard to draw definitive conclusions from, well, the offense scored in the two-minute drill today. Because the defensive line in particular is usually ahead of the offense and the offensive line. So it's hard to say, hey, football-wise. But I think the initial, you know, the number one thing that stands out to me, and I hope listeners aren't tired of hearing about it, is the vaccination rate.

Just because to me, Ron Rivera made this point when they had seven players, which was second most in the league in the middle of last week on the list. He said, hey, what if this were Saturday before the Chargers game? I mean, even if you're a high-risk close contact and you've got to be out for five days, minimum, you know, everybody here, I think it was like five starters, are missing both of these games. which is really going to impact our team from a competitive disadvantage standpoint. So to me, the fact that their vaccination rate from the Monday before they open camp, 60% to as of yesterday, it was 85% of players had received at least one shot,

that to me is probably the biggest note just because you're going to have a reduced risk of losing starters, you know, like a Brandon Sheriff, like a Duran Payne, before one of those games. And to me, one of the other big things that I've noticed is we still have not seen Curtis Samuel. He was dealing with a groin injury through most of, you know, off-season workouts. Now he's on the COVID list. So, I mean, that, you know, that number two receiver that's supposed to really help unlock this office with this traditional versatility, we still haven't seen on the field.

So to me, so far in training camps, the things that have stood out to me are actually the things that you're not seeing on the field rather than what you are seeing. Yeah, I mean, look, I know a lot of people. are listening and saying, God, I wish Sam would tell us, you know, how Sam Cosmy and Charles Leno are doing. And we can get to that. But, you know, you people who are listening are being naive if you don't think this is a massive issue. Now, personally, there's still, what, 40 days or 35 days or whatever it's left until the regular season. And a lot can change, including what the Delta variant and what Delta Plus is doing by the time we get there. And even the protocols could change. I mean, the league and the Players Association could change.

They could mandate vaccines or they could stop testing altogether. I doubt that that's going to happen. But I did think that something, there are two things on this. Number one, the team's vaccination rate, or at least those with at least one shot, skyrocketed here over the last week or a week or so. It's up to 85% I think was the last number I saw. And I think it was in the post. And it may have been you who wrote it.

And what I'd like to know if you know the answer is, did that one-shot vaccination percentage rise because of players on the backside of the final roster? You know, call it roster spots 54 through 90 increased their decision on getting vaccinated or because, you know, a lot of those defensive starters that we had heard aren't, you know, vaccinated yet, that they're starting. Like, who's gotten vaccinated that raised that level so quickly? That's a great question. And one, unfortunately, I cannot answer because the team obviously keeps that locked down, the NFLPA, player agents. I mean, this is something that, you know, it's hard to determine other than, okay, this person's wearing a mask at practice, though that's not even a great indicator because some players who have received one shot are still, you know, you have to wear the mask throughout that in certain parts of the building and certain parts of camp. You have to wear that mask until you're done with your second shot in the two weeks after.

So that's, I don't think the mask wearing is a great barometer. So it's really hard to say who and who has not fueled this rise in vaccination rates. So hard to say, but with 85%, I will say real quick, 85% in major league baseball was a threshold that teams would hit to, you know, lessen those COVID protocols or make it. easier to move around the building. In the NFL, that is not the case. So 85% is nice, you know, like that's 85 out of 100 people in the building or 85% of players are vaccinated, but that doesn't mean that they're going to have lessened protocols or that things are going to be easier for

them. You're still waiting to get 100% for Ron Rivera's case, I'm sure, but I don't know if you'll ever get there. Yeah, and look, you know, 85% means out of the 90 players that are in camp like 76 77 are vaccinated, you just hope that when cuts are made that, you know, the, well, 90 to 53 is 37 players. You just hope that all 37 of those aren't all vaccinated, right? And that because then the percentage is going to drop significantly. But anyway, I think the other thing that I was curious about, and I'm wondering if you have an opinion on this, the NFL put out a memo the other day, that essentially they're going to test vaccinated players daily, which was a change from the original protocol, and that, you know, now players are looking at it,

well, if I'm vaccinated, I'm tested daily. If I'm unvaccinated, I'm tested daily. And I wonder whether or not that that new protocol, if agreed to by players in league, will somehow de-incentivize the unvaccinated from getting vaccinated. I wonder if that'll work against what their intent might be. Yes, I think that's a great reading of the situation. To me, if they counter to the NFL's mandate without using the word mandate vaccine, where, you know, if you forfeit, if there's no break on your team, you forfeit.

This is the NFLPA saying we're going to protect the players who, don't want to get vaccinated because you're right that if that change were adopted and they have to discuss that if that change were adopted where vaccinated players have to be tested daily then there really is no logistical difference other than having to wear a mask and certain you know distancing and meeting room and travel and travel road game restrictions too yes yeah yeah okay so but other than that it would make uh it would be the same so there would be very little incentive for those who hadn't been vaccinated yet to get vaccinated. I think that's a total, you know, that's a fair reading of the situation for sure. Yeah, I, when I read that

yesterday or the day before, I was like, you're almost now, you know, require, you went from, you know, essentially vaccinated players having it be really easy. Um, and now you're, you're making it less easy for them, which for the unvaccinated may work, um, you know, against them getting vaccinated. You know, look, I'm at the point where I personally believe they should mandate vaccines. If you don't get vaccinated, you're not in the facility, you're not playing, or, or Sam, just don't test. Because the bottom line is nobody is getting sick from the Delta variant in that age group. You know, no matter if they're vaccinated or unvaccinated, Obviously, if they're vaccinated, the chances are significantly less that they'll get sick at all.

But even with the unvaccinated that are catching COVID, nobody in that age group, like before to a certain extent, nobody's getting sick. So on some level, not every company, not every university is vaccinating or requiring vaccinations of everybody. My preference would be mandate vaccines. I think that would be the easiest way to get it done. But if they don't, if they're going to continue to test, you're going to have some teams that are going to be potentially at a competitive disadvantage. And by the way, you would think that the teams with the lower vaccination rates, probability-wise, it's true, will be at a greater risk at being at a competitive disadvantage. But it doesn't guarantee that. You know, the most vaccinated team, if they're not completely vaccinated, could still end up with an issue.

Certainly. I mean, certainly I think what you're asking for if you're saying either mandate the testing or not, you know, don't test at all, is asking people to say what they mean a little more if that makes sense. Because the NFL, I think, you know, because I think you're, like you said, there's a lot of overlap here with, I think the way corporations are handling this with the way cities and states and governments, local or national are handling this. it's, you know, what kind of leverage do we have to make our workplace, you know, or to get our workplace on the same level, you know, even the Washington Post, you know, talking about mandating vaccines to get back into work. I think, you know, that is one way to handle it, but you can't, I don't know if it's maybe socially acceptable as the word, to not, to just stop testing and say, okay, you know what, for this age group, it's not a problem.

we're not going to test. I don't think that that is something that is palatable right now, and especially when you consider Ron Rivera being immunocompromised, he's obviously said and done all the things that he can do. But I think that when you step back and say, hey, who else is in this workplace besides this age group? I think that's when it gets a little trickier. Yeah, look, I don't think it would happen.

And there are other, you know, ramifications to not testing, and that is, you know, as a society we went to, you know, this thing is just, you know, such a long shot to, you know, impact most people, except for elderly or people with underlying conditions. The bottom line is you still end up with a situation potentially where people with other ailments aren't getting those taken care of because of limited health care options in these, you know, in these situations where we've had outbreaks. You know, to find the overburdened health care system, which,

remember was the original fear more than any other. You know, in March of 2020, the big fear was we're going to have a health care system that is completely overwhelmed and unable to take care of all of these people are sick and then people who are sick with other things aren't going to be taken care of. But what happened was outbreak areas saw that, but not everybody saw that because not everybody had an outbreak. But we've had more of that here recently with the Delta variant. So ultimately it's better if just everybody gets vaccinated. And you don't overburden the health care system. It's, you know, the bottom line is with this thing, Sam, it's so complex and it changes so

often. We may get to the beginning of the season, and it may be much less of an issue because players either decided to get vaccine, you know, the vaccination, or the Delta variant, you know, petered out a little bit as it's, as what's been happening in the UK here. over the last couple of weeks, and they always seem in this thing to be about three to four weeks ahead of us. Who knows? You want to talk some football, though? How's Land and Collins look? I think, yeah, it's going to be a really long 37 days to kick off. You know what? In this situation that we've lived in for a year and a half, 37 days is so long.

So much happens in 37 days. And by the way, it could be much. much worse in 37 days. There could be, this Delta Plus could be much worse, and there could be another one. But whatever. Let's talk about landing Collins coming off torn Achilles. Does he look as good as everybody says, and is he going to be ready to go in the opener as a starter? That is a big question. I mean, to me, physically, yes, I think that he will be ready.

He's looked, you know, take it for what it's worse, because, you know, he's a big question. because, you know, he's not in Paddnell, but he's not hitting except for the last two days, but he has looked explosive. He's looked agile. You know, I think even he'll say he feels better than he did at the beginning of last season. Ron Rivera has co-signed that,

and I'm always wary of, you know, as someone who remembers, you know, being at spring training at West Palm Beach and every national showing up and saying they're in the best shape of their lives, I'm always skeptical of that. But I do think, you know, just watching Landon and only having watched Landis beginning of last year, he does look a little more explosive.

He does look like he's getting to the ball faster. Whether that holds up over training camp remains to be seen. I think I've done enough hedging now to say that, yes, Lennon Collins does look explosive. And I would be surprised if you were not starting out there in some combination of him and Cam Curl and Bobby McCain. Let's go to the corners. Jackson and Fuller are obviously going to be on the field.

After that, you know, the rookie St. Juist, you know, has been talked about. What about Morland? Is Morland going to get run this year? Yes, I think Morland, he's been the top nickel throughout camp, but what they've done a lot, and this is a part of Ron's training camp, a lot of the other, cycling guys through spots. But what we have seen is St. Juice and Jackson on the outside and Fuller back in the slot where obviously he excelled. Right.

and his first sit in Washington where he excelled in the city. So I don't know if they know yet what their best combination of corners is. And if they shifted Fuller into the nickel, he would be the highest paid nickel by a lot in the league. He's at, you know, $10 million APY, four years, $40 million. They signed him last off season. So it would be expensive to move him. And I'm sure he and his agent would not prefer it. But I do think that's an option on the table right now.

I talked to Ron Rivera on the radio show last week, and I had this hunch at the end of last year that they really like Kaleek Hudson, and they see him much more than just a special teamer. Has the first several, you know, 10, 12, 14 days, whatever it's been of training camp, revealed that in terms of where you've seen him out there? You and I are on the same wave because I wrote a story about Kaleek. I want to say three weeks ago now, just before camp, because if you think about his side and his style of play, he fits that Buffalo Nickel. He's basically the heavier, shorter, squatter version of Cam Curl.

Cam Curl played all over the defense at Arkansas, and as you saw last year, excelled in Buffalo Nickel and allowed him to kind of make that jump to strong safety. Khali Hudson played in a very similar role at Michigan. played what they called the Viper role, which was strong safety outside linebacker and nickel corner as well. So his skill set makes a ton of sense to transfer over, and Ron said when we asked, you know, okay, if Cam Carls at safety this year, who's at Buffalo Nickel, he said Kaleek would be a top candidate when we talked to him.

I think it was mid-June. However, since we've gotten into camp, we have not seen Kaleak really play that Buffalo nickel position. He's been the second linebacker with that second team. sub-packages and in base. The top three linebackers have been consistently, Jamon at Mike, Cole Holcomb at Sam, and John Bostic at Will.

We have not really seen Khali Kudson, if I'm not mistaken, any first-team rep, except when Jamie Davis missed practice with a poke in the eye. So, Kalee-Kutton, I like him. It makes a ton of sense, but I have not seen him get the burn that maybe we expected him to earlier this year. He's an outstanding special team in her.

and his snap count defensively went up at the end of last year, and I thought that they like them, but you might be right. Maybe what they have in front of them, both at Buffalo Nickel and at the linebacker position, is better. So that's where I'll go. They've got Davis working primarily at the mic. What are you hearing from coaches versus what you're even seeing? Are you hearing that they think he's up to this as a rookie?

Yeah, I do. I think that from defensive players and coaches, I mean, they could just be saying it to pump their guy up, right? You know, when you want a rookie to have as much confidence as possible, especially when you're taking over a check position like Mike Linebacker in year one. But from what we've seen, from his aggressiveness to the ball, from, you know, the communication of the defense, just, you know, again, we've only seen a couple days of padded practice,

but from what we have seen, and Jamin is certainly flying to the ball. He's getting, you know, you can hear the pop on his pads as much as anybody else. And so it seems like they're going to let him, you know, take those reins. And if he's going to make mistakes, he's going to make mistakes on the job. Let's shift to offense here for a moment. Has there been anything that you've seen or heard that would indicate that there's actually a quarterback competition at this point? No. There is no quarterback competition. I think that was all Ron, regretting, giving Dway, and the

accomplished. Agreed. Right now, if they keep three backs, who's the third after Gibson and McKissick? That's a battle, I think, between Jared Patterson, the undrafted rookie, and Peyton Barber, who they called the Hammer last year, those third and short situations. I would say right now, probably Barbara has the edge in terms of the snap you've gotten, in terms of the snap he's gotten in terms of the experience he's had. But Jared Patterson has looked really impressive in camp, and it's hard when you're not tackling or going 100% to say a running back has looked really good because it's hard to judge, you know, is that run getting out of the backfield if Montez Sweat is really

going after Jared Patterson or something like that. But at the same time, I would say his past catching ability, his performance in those one-on-one drills against linebackers, he just looks like. an all-around threat, even though he's, you know, he's at most guy's shoulder level, the top of his helmet, but he really is an impressive Darren Sproul's type, though a little thicker, as Ron Rivera said earlier this year. So it's between them, I would probably bet Barber right now, but I think there's a lot of time in camp for Jared Patterson to make sure that coaches side-to-tham. Back to quarterback for a moment. Who's the backup quarterback on September 12th

against the Chargers? Taylor Heineke, to me, has an enormous lead. Even though he's struggled in camp, particularly throwing left, I think he is the best option they have, especially because you don't know what the health is with Kyle Allen. Kyle Allen has not practiced in a week since Richmond because of that, you know, surgally repaired ankle acting up on him.

So right now, to me, Heineke's the safe bet. Who's the starting left tackle opening day? Leno? Charles Leno for sure. Who's the starting right tackle? Is it Lucas for sure? This is, I think, one of the more interesting battles of camp because Cornelius Lucas and Sam Cosby,

the rookie second round pick, were, you know, I think slated to be real competitors in that position. But because Cornelius Lucas started camp on the COVID list, Sam Cosby has taken almost all of the first team snap at right tackle. And even yesterday, which I think was Lucas' first team. first practice back since that ramp-up period off the COVID list. He took almost all those snaps at first team left tackle because Charles Leno was attending his grandmother's funeral.

So we have not really seen the team's planned at right tackle when it comes to Cosme and Lucas both being over there, both being a competitor to that spot. I would imagine that Cosme could win that battle because he has looked better against sweat and Chase Young after getting welcome to the NFL adequately. I guess is probably the way I would put it in that first week of camp. But I think, you know, Washington is probably ready to give Cosby, you know, the same opportunity to learn on the job and the future is now sort of deal. If we assume that the four, the five gimmies at wide receiver are,

and we assume that Curtis Samuel's healthy by the time we get to the 12th, McLaren, Samuel, Diami Brown, Adam Humphreys, and Cam Sims. If we assume that those five are going to be on the final fifth, Who's the sixth if there is a sixth? This is one of the most, I think there will be a sixth, but this is one of the most fascinating battles to me in camp, because you have, you have two big guys.

Right, to returner, I think, is the spot that's going to be open. And to me, it's a two-man competition between D'Andre Carter and Stevenson. And I think it's easy to either of those guys after underwhelming 2020s, But they have both looked great in camp. And to me, there was a sequence that practiced Thursday that kind of encapsulated this because you had, on back-to-back plays, you had Stephen Sims with great separation against Jimmy Morland on a crossing route, highlighting the explosive burst of feet from him off camp. And then the next play, a really beautiful pass from Taylor Heineke into the right back corner of the end zone.

and D'Andre Carter had a contesting catch. So both of these guys, obviously, I think, will be judged on their abilities returning in preseason games, but they are at least showing in practice that they're up to the task as receivers as well. All right. Last one for Sam Fortier, who's been very generous with his time here on the podcast today. Give me a player that so far has surprised all of you and the coach, staff and give me a player that may have disappointed through two weeks, not that there's not

time to turn it around? I think the surprise maybe has been John Bates, the fourth round pick at a Boise state, and I don't mean surprise in terms of, you know, he's flashed or doing things that they, you know, didn't expect. I think they expected an all-around tight end. But what I've seen from Logan Thomas on the sidelines, you know, when he's explaining, you don't want to run this theme. As it's drawn sometimes,

you want to run this theme in comparison to the defense. So if you're getting zone coverage over the top, turn and sit down and, you know, Fitzpatrick will get you the ball where it needs to go. And obviously that's a lot to take on for a rookie, and I don't even know that he'll be the tight end too. I think Tamara Hemingway could be that guy, but I do think John Bates has impressed.

As far as disappointment, I think Antonio Gandy Golden, for what he was supposed to be that fourth round pick coming out of Liberty last year obviously he was hampered by injuries and there is a chance to turn it around but he has not had

I think steady his hands he was called for office of passenger appearance several times after they brought the officials out I think that he has a ton of potential and I think all the measurable are still there but I think that when you consider the camp

that maybe you were expecting him to have coming off that injury riddled campaign it's sort of have been a little underwhelming to watch. I think not only for me, but I think for others as well. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. Sam, of course, covers the team for the Washington Post.

At Sam 4TR on Twitter. Sam is a Syracuse guy, a basketball dude, covered the chargers, covered the Nats, and is doing a great job covering our Washington football team. enjoy tonight. I think it's going to be interesting to see what the turnout is. We'll talk soon. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me as always, Kevin.

Sam Fortier from the Washington Post, does a really good job covering the team for the Post, and he's a really good guest on radio and on podcasts. That does it for the day. Have a great weekend back next week with a full week of podcasts, and we will gear up for the first preseason game of this 2021 season. at Foxborough against the Patriots on Thursday night for your Washington football team. Have a great weekend.