The Kevin Sheehan Show - Post Poll Crushes Name

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Kevin opened the show today talking about the Washington Post poll that came out this morning indicating that an overwhelming percentage of Commanders' fans want the name changed. Tom Friend/Sports Business Journal was a guest on the show talking all things Washington football including revealing information on ownership's current thinking on the team name. He also weighed in on the teams' hires since January along with thoughts on Jayden Daniels. More from him on Bill Walton and the recent NBA television contract negotiations. Kevin had a quick recap of Minnesota's Game 4 win last night in Dallas. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Wind Donation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name and you'll get a free in-home, no-obligation estimate.

One guest on the show today. Tom Friend is on with us. We've had Tom on the show previously. In fact, we had him on shortly after. Josh Harris bought the team from Dan Snyder last July. Tom, many years ago for the Washington Post, was the beat reporter covering the Redskins in the late 80s. He was the Nikki Jabala of his day.

But Tom's been everywhere. He's been an award winner everywhere he's gone. He's been with the LA Times, the New York Times, ESPN. He's currently writing and covering the NBA for Sports Business Journal. may talk a little bit about the NBA, but having Tom on is really a Washington football team segment. We'll get his thoughts on all of the changes, and we'll get his thoughts on what we're going to talk about here in the open to the show, and that is the Washington Post poll that came out today about the team name. So let's get to it. This was a poll conducted by the Washington

Washington Post, along with the Sharr School of Policy and Government at George Mason University. It was conducted last month between April 19th and the 29th of April. It was a random sample of 1,683 adult residents in the D.C. area. 1,683 adult residents in the D.C. area. Among the 1,683 that were polled, 1,683, that were polled, 1,2,000. 295 identified themselves as sports fans, and 640 identified themselves as commanders fans. Now, the story that came out around the poll results was written by Nikki Jabala, we know Nikki, of course, and Emily Guskin of the Washington Post,

the headline to the story with the poll results. Read as follows, most DC area sports fans dislike or hate commander's name, Pole Fines. Well, my first reaction to that would be, well, no shit. Of course they do. But, obviously, I'm very interested

in the levels of dislike and hate of the commander's names. So let's get to it. I'm going to read from the story, and then we'll get into these specifics of some of the questions that were asked along with some of the results, I'll give you a couple of my takeaways. So the story around the poll results starts. It's been two years since Washington's NFL franchise unveiled its new name as the commanders,

and most D.C. area fans still don't care for it. According to an April Washington Post-Sharr School poll, most local sports fans, 54% say they either dislike or hate the name. Among just local local commanders fans, the antipathy toward the name is even more stark. 58% say they don't like it. In fact, only 16% of commanders fans think the team should keep the name, while most say they would like the team to change to a different name. Let me read that last data point. In fact, only six. 16% of commanders fans think the team should keep the name, while most say they would like the team to change to a different name. So before I get to the specifics of my reaction to what I read today in the Washington Post, let me just start with that.

And I know that I've been harsh towards some of the people that say shut up and move. on. This isn't an issue. Nobody cares. Again, and I said this a few weeks ago when Steve Daines, the senator from Montana, was holding up the RFK site bill and talked about the logo and what the logo meant to, you know, Walter Blackie Wetzel and the Blackfeet Nation, etc. And, you know, the first person to tweet that out was J.P. Finley. And he had, you know, he had, like a million and a half page views were views of that tweet. And I said, people that have told some of us to shut up, sit down, and focus on the real priorities. No, you shut up and sit down because you're just way off.

You're either completely delusional and detached from the pulse and the reality of this fan base, or you're just stupid. 84% of the people polled don't want commanders. They want a new name. Now, I'll get into the specifics of that, but that's the headline here of commanders fans, because really all D.C. area residents are just people who identify themselves as sports fans,

you know, they could be fans of any team, and they just don't have the level of passion that I think Josh Harrison, Mitch Rails, and Magic Johnson and the ownership need to focus on. They need to focus on their current customer base and those who used to be customers. Only 16% of those people think the team should keep the current name. Is that number surprising to me? It's a little bit higher than I would have thought in terms of the number of people that want the name changed, 84%. And actually, I'll get into the specifics of those numbers because there is a percentage of those people that really had no opinion at all.

But they were given a choice to prefer the commander's name and they decided to pass on answering the question altogether. But is the 16% of commanders fans that think the team should keep the name? Is that a number that's lower than I thought? Maybe a little bit lower. I think I would have gone 75, 25. I've always sort of described it, I think, as the significant majority of fans past and present. This is an issue to, and they want the name changed. So the polling clearly reflects that.

Before I get into just the specifics of the polling, the questions that were in the poll, I wanted to read just a quick paragraph because I thought it was interesting and informative. in this story written by Nikki and Emily around the polling results, there's this paragraph that reads as follows, quote, no NFL team has changed its name three times in a decade without changing regions. Doing so is costly, and the league's bylaws stipulate that a franchise can change its name logo in uniforms only once every five years.

But there are exceptions in the game. including a change in ownership. Closed quote. I thought that was an interesting part to the story because I think we've talked about league rules and how many years and are there exceptions? Would an exception be made for Josh Harris for this new ownership group that took over a team

whose name just changed? And there's a lot of trauma in the fan base around this, not to mention 25 years of, pure hell and now there's some excitement, you know, would the league make an exception? And it sounds like, based on this paragraph, you know, there are exceptions, including a change in ownership, they would. I think what's also important in this paragraph is changing is costly. And I think that's something to pay attention to. Because I don't think that the results of this poll are going to shock many people in ownership, in the new ownership group.

I think this is information that they've understood, you know, even before they purchased the team. The issue really is whether or not they can do anything about it. But let me get to that here in a moment. Let me share some of the specifics, the specific answers to some of the questions that were asked, that gave the results of 58% say they don't like it or hate it of commanders fans, and only 16% think the team should keep the name commanders.

So the first question asked, or at least the question that they revealed the results of the question first in this story, is asked as follows, quote, regardless of what you think about the Washington commanders as a football team, which of the following best describes how you feel about the name the commanders? Do you love it, like it, dislike it, or hate it? So there are three different groups, D.C. area overall, so that would be, you know, the 1683, sports fans, which was the 1,245 number, and then commanders fans, which was the 600, what did I say, 6403? 40, I think, of those 1683 adults. Yeah, 640 commander stands. I actually think those are the answers that are the most relevant and should be the most important to ownership. Overall, the D.C. area overall, which includes, you know, of the people polled, you know,

a thousand or so that don't identify as commanders fans. 49% said they either disliked it or hated it. Just 3% said they loved it. 31% said they liked it. So 17% had no opinion. So that would mean 49 to 34% right. 49% either disliked it or hated it. and 34% said they loved it or liked it.

Now, for sports fans, that number goes to 53% disliked it or hated it, and also 34% said that they either loved it or liked it. And again, 3% of that was a loved it answer. But then we get to commanders fans, and this is where 58% said that they disliked it or hated it, and just 36% said they loved it or liked it. Loved it was a 4% number among commanders fans. 32% was a liked it answer.

So there you get an overall sense of loving it, liking it, disliking it, or hating it. But it's what I think to be the follow-up question that I think is more instructive here. The follow-up question, if you could choose a... name for Washington's football team, would you prefer the commanders, the Washington football team, or find a new and different name? That's the question, another question that was asked in this poll. So they basically give those that are polled three potential answers, commanders, Washington football team, which would be my preference, or find a new and different name. Now, because Before I give you the answer, the breakdown in numbers, you'll note, I would think, that Redskins is not one of the options provided here.

This is not one of the potential answers for the people being polled to give. And I think the reason for that would be it's not a possibility. It's just not. And they have a quote in here from Mitch Rails that I had forgotten. It comes from last September when he was asked about the Redskins name. And he said, quote, that ship has sailed, Mitch Rails, the second largest shareholder after managing partner, Josh Harris. That ship is sailed. We're not going to relitigate the past.

We're about the future. We're about building the future and not having a divisive culture that we're engaged in. We're going to look at everything come the end of the year and think about a lot of different things and do a lot of testing and see what people think. And we'll learn. The beauty is we have the time to look at all of this stuff intelligently and make fan-based decisions, closed quote. I had forgotten that quote from Mitch Rails back in September. But we've also had, you know, recent Jason Wright, and I know most of you don't really want to hear from him. on any of this stuff, but he had said essentially the Redskins is not going to happen.

I think Nikki Javala recently reported that the Redskins is not, you know, as a non-starter. I just think, as I've said for months now, and some of you have suggested that, you know, stop saying that. You're talking it into existence, which can't possibly be true. I just don't think that they're going to, you know, invite controversy if they change the name. I don't think so. I don't think the league would allow it. I just don't think Redskins will ever happen. I'm not happy about it. I'm with a lot of you. I'm not thrilled about it not being taken seriously. But I also understand the predicament that it would put the league into with corporate sponsors, you know, true revenue, you know, partners. And for a group of owners, and for a group of

that had to come up with and it wasn't easy, $6 billion to buy the team. You know, the best part about their situation is they weren't the ones that had to be around to change it. It was already changed if that was going to happen. And look, the bottom line with the changes, as we've discussed many times, it got swept up into the summer of 2020. You know, George Floyd, everything that happened in the summer of 2020, but more specifically, it was, you know, self-destructive on Snyder's part because he was withholding dividends and withholding financial information from his three minority partners. And they got pissed.

And Fred Smith specifically said, essentially, well, look what I'm going to do. You know, I'm going to, you know, along with everything else that's changing here in the summer of 2020, I'm going to tell you that if you don't change the name, FedEx is out as a corporate partner of the team and whatever FedEx was doing with the league. And once it became about, you know, business, it was doomed. Snyder, though, really was at fault for that. Now, it may have ultimately gotten, you know, swept up with everything else that was getting swept up in the summer of 2020 in the months and even the few years that followed it.

But Snyder kind of did that to himself because he's an idiot, right? I mean, bottom line is, you know, he was never very strategic with much of anything. But anyway, so to me, this second polling question, which doesn't include Redskins as an option, is the big takeaway here in terms of, you know, how you should view what the post did here. Because first of all, this is a question asked to just commanders fans. All right, this is the 640 commanders fans answering this question. So if you could choose a name for Washington's football team, would you prefer the commanders, the Washington football team, or find a new and different name?

So 30% of the people said another name. 17% said Washington football team. 16% said commanders. So 47 of the three options, 47% said either Washington football team or another name, but they did not volunteer another name. 16% said commanders. So what about the rest of, that's 63. what about the rest of the 37% that were polled on this? Well, some people said, I don't like the options you've given me.

I'm going to give you what I want the answer to be. And so you got several other answers, which were not commanders. These were people that wanted the name changed. And the number one, volunteered answer was Redskins at 16%. Imagine if it had been one of the options as part of the question, it would have been much greater than 50%, in my opinion. 16%.

Without it being offered up, said, I don't like your potential answers. Here's my answer. Redskins. 3% said Red wolves. They volunteered Red Wolves, because they didn't like the options proposed. 2% said red tails.

2% said warriors. 1% said, generals and then another 14% had no opinion at all or skip the question entirely. So 16% said, I'd like the name to be the commanders. 84% did not say commanders. 84% that didn't say commanders, 70% had an answer. They said, Washington football team, Redskins, Red Wolves, Red Tails, Warriors, Generals, or just another name. And didn't, you know, specifically say what other name, just not commanders.

14% said no opinion or skip the question altogether. So for me, there are kind of two to three takeaways. Let me start with this. 16% number has to be a number that, you know, they understood it to be disliked and, you know, hated and a name that the fan base once changed. Maybe not, you know, that low of a percentage of people that wanted to stick with commanders, but they knew it was a significant minority of people that wanted to stick with commanders. But 16% is pretty damn low.

That's one takeaway. The takeaway being, just change the name. Imagine the win of just getting away from the commanders and this shitty brand that is attached to it, the uniforms, et cetera. You know, the reasons for hating the name, we all know what they are. many people think that it's, you know, a Dan Snyder's last salvo.

Other people like me just think it feels like it's an expansion team name and an expansion uniform, uniforms, etc. You know, others feel like, you know, two outsiders, Jason Wright and Will Missilebrook came in, hijacked the operation and gave us this drek and then presented it in such an uninspiring way that made it feel even worse than it was. So takeaway number one is, I mean, how do you lose by changing it? You don't. But takeaway number two is this.

The fact that the 84% that didn't choose commanders is so fragmented. 30% another name without any sort of specific preference on what the other name is. 17% Washington football teams, 16% Redskins without the Redskins being an option. You know, much smaller percentages on Red Wills, Red Tails, Warriors, Generals. But remember, those weren't options. So people said, I'm telling you, I don't care what your answers are. I want the Red Wolves. I want the Redskins.

I think the 16% on Redskins is very telling. But this just proves how difficult it will be to choose. change the name to something that people agree with. And that's part of the problem is there's not an obvious solution to this. You know, most smart business people don't, you know, shoot something dead without a solution. You know, they don't fire people without a solution unless they have no choice. and these guys are probably wrestling with the solution. Now, what you've heard from them, you know,

and you probably will continue to hear from them is, we've got all these other things that are much bigger priorities. Trust me, they understand the importance of this. But I do believe that the stadium bill, the RFK site bill, until that thing gets through the Senate, they're going to continue to pose and present that this just isn't, you know, on their to-do list or very high on their to-do list right now. Because, you know, new stadium, winning, embracing the community, you know, all these other things. Like they can't multitask, which we've talked about before.

Of course they can. But I think that I feel pretty confident that a big part. of not hearing from anybody from the organization about where they are on this thing has to do with the RFK site bill and whether or not they're waiting specifically for it to pass through the Senate before they tell us what they've been doing because I do think they should tell us what they've been doing I think we you know clearly 80 with only 16% of their fan base liking the current name they need to address it. Clearly, it has to be addressed, but I don't think it's going to be addressed until they feel comfortable

that it's not going to impact their ability to get a stadium at the RFK site back in the city. That would be my guess. So I do think, you know, number one, it's clearly obvious how big of an issue this is, you know, based on this polling. I don't know. I'm sure people, that think that this is, you know, a shut up and move along. It's not important. We'll tell you how flawed the polling is. Just like in 2016, when 9 out of 10 Native Americans said they had no problem with the Redskins, you know, all of the people that were on the other side of that told you just how flawed the polling was.

And it was like, okay, well, give us the poll that represents the way you feel. And of course, there wasn't really any poll that represented the way they feel. I know that there was the Stanford, Michigan poll, but it was still a majority of people of Native Americans that didn't have a problem with the name. It just may not have been 90-10. But again, there will be people that will say, you know, oh, this polling's so flawed. You know, a much higher percentage of people prefer commanders. a much higher percentage of people don't care about this issue. Bullshit.

You know, I do believe that as, you know, a lifelong, you know, in the blood fan of this team, it being super important to me. And by the way, doing what I've been doing for the last 18, 19 years, I do think I have a decent, you know, feel. on the pulse of the fan base, past and present. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I think more than people who, you know, do what I do or blog or write or, you know, whatever, that don't have the same background and the same historical perspective

and the same relationships with people who also have the same emotions tied to loving this team and having this team be so important. You know, I just, I have told you all along that I just don't pay attention to the people who are telling you that this isn't an issue or this shouldn't be a priority. It's a big issue. It's a very big issue. Has been, is currently, can't predict on if it will continue to be. because I'm sure that somebody smart could make the case,

hey, if they go 13 and 4 this year and they go to the Super Bowl, guess what? They'll feel differently about commanders. I'm not smart enough to know whether or not that's true. Part of me thinks that there is some truth to that, that winning would certainly convert more people, but I still don't think it would reach a majority. I think people are checked out.

There are so many people that are checked out because of a lot of things, but the name's part of it. And then, again, you know, the challenge of coming up with a solution to this, it's daunting. It was daunting for Jason Wright and Will Misselbrook. As much as they really butcher the process and then the presentation of it, I don't think there was any way for them to get it right. I don't. And I think it's going to be really hard to get it right moving forward. But at the same time, I think they got to do their best to change it.

That's why I think still Washington is the best way to go and let everybody have their own nicknames for the team. I was going to say something else, and I kind of lost my train of thought on that. Oh, there was one other poll in this, or there was one other question as part of the polling in the Washington Post today. The question was, would you describe yourself as a fan of the, and they give four teams, the Nats, the caps, the commanders, and the wizards. And they gave a percentage of people saying yes for each. Okay, so this is, would you describe yourself as a fan of the nationals, yes or no? Would you describe yourself as a fan of the Capitals, yes or no? Would you describe yourself as a fan of the commanders, yes or no?

Would you describe yourself as a fan of the Wizards? Yes or no? Well, you know, this is another reflection of just how much of the commanders of the Washington football franchise's fan base was eroded. The Nats, 59% said yes to. The Caps, 50% said yes to. The commanders, 45% said yes to. And the wizard said 37% said yes to. Now, I bet you two years ago, the number would have been even lower for the commanders.

I think the change in ownership gave it a lift. But we've talked about this. All of the key numbers would basically give you roughly two thirds of what used to be considered. the fan base having gone, left. And what percentage of those people came back with Snyder gone? Some. But it was an incredible challenge in taking this team over. I mean, the bottom line is they came in with an incredible challenge, right?

They had the challenge of two-thirds of the fan base gone. They had the challenge that they continue to deal. with, and that is what's left of the fan base basically has PTSD. You know, they're expecting the worst. They also have, you know, a stadium issue because they inherited a bad stadium, and they inherited a need for a new one. They also inherited a bad team. And then, of course, they inherited a bad name and a bad brand.

I mean, lots of challenges once they bought this team. team, but I'm sure they point to the upside, which is Snyder's gone, which gives us a bump in revenue. And if we can provide a product on the field that wins, we got a really good chance of creating a really good return on investment, not that there's actually a return on investment unless you sell the team. I don't know if they'll pay dividends out to the owners. I have no idea how that's structured.

But, yeah, it's just a big challenge all the way around. There were so many things that they had to deal with, including what that poll reflects, which is it's just not what it used to be. Now, fortunately for people like me, the conversation of the team is still one in which people, like partaking in. It's odd. I've talked about that many times over the years, that there are many people that are listening to this podcast right now that listen to other shows

that don't consider themselves nearly the fan that they used to be, but for whatever reason they enjoy in the conversation. Because there is this community of us, all of us, that, you know, were or are fans, and And the conversation about the team and everything it's gone through and everything that it's on the verge of going through because it does appear that the arrow is pointing up in a lot of different directions. You know, the GM, his staff, the coach, the coaching staff, the quarterback, in my opinion. You know, it's all new and different, but it's also, you know, it gives you hope because they got a chance because the structure seems right. You know, we'll find out whether or not all of these guys were the right hires in due time. You know, it's going to be a couple of years.

But there certainly feels, it feels more optimistic than it has been. But anyway, yeah, clearly there's a name issue with commanders. And I would also suggest with the associated uniforms and everything around the branding. that's not a big revelation as, you know, as I don't think it is for most of you, a big revelation. But maybe the numbers you didn't think were as, you know, severe as they turned out to be. And even I have to, I have to admit that even when I have said over and over again a significant of majority of people, you know, want the name changed. And it is an issue to those people. I didn't expect the numbers to turn out what they were in this poll.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you the poll's flawed. I can't possibly tell you that. I don't know enough about polling. But again, you know, it's a challenge to do anything about it. It might be very costly, I guess, even though I think the cost of keeping this name is a big risk for them as well. But, you know, some of the answers just kind of lay out. that there's no easy solution to this. I think ranking the solutions would be Redskins number one,

but that can't happen and it's not going to happen. And then I do believe that Washington football team or Washington FC, FC, Washington, so many of you get sick of that when I mention that because you hate soccer or you don't want a soccer attachment, but I still think that would offend the least amount of people and please the most amount of people. But nothing's going to be, you know, no solution is going to come with, like, everybody being thrilled.

And I think that is represented in the polling results as well. All right, before I get to Tom Friend, I just wanted to mention, and I'm not going to do a lot on this, but I loved the game last night in the NBA playoffs. I loved what Minnesota did. I loved the fight. I love the desperation they played with. and I'll just say this.

Carl Anthony Towns, given his kind of backed into a corner position going into that game last night, you know, an All-Star, the guy considered to be the guy that was at fault for them falling behind 3-0 in the series, a guy that had gone 3 for 22 from behind the arc. You know, a guy that once said he's the best big, big man shooter in the history of the game, and he was 4 for 32 from behind the arc in his last, five playoff games. I loved his performance. He came out and delivered in a situation, and some of you aren't following this, but trust me, he has been the object of ridicule for a week plus now. You know, soft, not delivering, stop shooting threes, go to the basket, be tough.

He came out in the first two and a half quarters last night, super aggressive, and, that super aggressiveness actually in a weird way got him in foul trouble. He didn't shoot a three for the first two and a half quarters. And then with the game on the line in the fourth quarter, he hit four of them, or three of them in a nine point solo run to go from 9089 down to 9892 up in Minnesota, staved off elimination, you know, held off the Mavericks from sweeping. I just loved everything about Carl Anthony Towns last night. It was one of those performances that as I watched it from start to finish, it was very, you could tell that even when he was, you know, airing on the side of being aggressive

and not shooting threes, but that wasn't necessarily working. It was getting him into foul trouble. He had multiple offensive fouls. He had shots thrown back in the other direction by Gafford, who, my God, what a defensive stopper. He is. And yet, with the game on the line, the dude did what he thinks he does well. And by the way, shooters, you know what they do? They shoot. He's got a great release.

He's got a very good stroke. And he just decided, I'm going out with what I do best. And he knocked down four out of five last night. Good for him. I can't stand watching Luca Donchich, even though he is. is so great. I've never seen somebody as my producer Denton

described it this morning. He said, and I agreed with him, he's never seen anybody so committed for 48 minutes to whining and bitching at the referees. It's just almost impossible to watch, but it's also

very, very easy to watch his greatness. He's an incredible offensive player. Incredible. As a score, as a playmaker, some of his passes last night were sensational. But I just, I can't believe that he doesn't get teed up every single night. He's much worse than Rashid Wallace ever was, much worse than LeBron's ever been. And that's saying a lot. Tom Friend, next, after these words from a few of our sponsors. Down to the final four in the NBA playoffs, guys.

It's Minnesota and Dallas out west, Indiana and Boston in the east. I've got a way that will make watching these games more exciting. Download the prize picks app today. It is the place to go for daily fantasy sports. It's an easy and exciting way to play DFS. Prize picks is the largest daily fantasy sports platform in North America. It's just you against the numbers. you don't battle thousands of other players.

You just pick more than or less than on between two and six players, their stat projections with odds. I've given you some of these in recent weeks. You can win up to 100 times your money right now on prize picks with as little as four correct picks. Turn $10 into a thousand by just downloading the app, playing a couple of these more than or less thans on the NBA or NHL playoff games. Price picks even offers injury insurance so that your entry stay alive even if one of your players gets injured. For basketball games, if you've got a player who exits the game in the first half, does not return in the second.

That player projection won't count against you and the rest of your entry stays alive. Download the app today. Use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100. that Sheehan, the promo code, S-H-E-E-H-A-N, download the prize-picks app today, use that code Sheehan for a first deposit match of up to $100. Prize picks, pick more, pick less, it's that easy. Hey, guys, I want to tell you about Harry's Razors. I've been a customer for a long time going back to probably when they sent me product and I endorsed them for the first time on this podcast several years ago. Harry saw customers getting ripped off by the shaving industry with overpriced underperforming products and decided to do something better.

And they found their own way to make beautifully designed razors for a fraction of the price of other big brands. I've been using their Truman handle. It's a two-tone handle with a great grip. It provides a close shave, no matter if you've got a beard and you're shaving around it, or if you cleanly shave on a daily basis, their German-engineered blades stay sharp and stay sharp for a long period of time.

They've got customizable delivery options for scheduled refills for as low as $2. That's half of what you pay other big brands. Right now you can get a five-blade razor, weighted handle, foaming shave gel, and a travel cover for just three bucks at harries.com slash Sheen. Harries has other self-care products that meet the same quality standards as their razors,

like their extra strength, high-quality, amazing-smelling deodorant for just $5, plus hair and other grooming products that fit your unique look and needs. Harris has the highest customer satisfaction in the shaving industry, and right now they're offering up a no-risk trial. If you don't like your shave, no worries, it's on them. They have convenient subscription options that you can cancel at any time as well. Getting the best doesn't mean spending the most when you shave with Harry's. Get started with a $13 trial set for just $3 at harries.com slash Sheen.

That's harries.com slash S-H-E-E-H-A-N for a $3 trial set. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.ag or mybooky.com for all of your sports betting needs. You may have a place where you're already betting on sports, but MyBooky's going to offer you a cash bonus on your initial sign-ups. So take the free cash, have a second place that you can comparison shop on point spreads, on money lines, on prop bet prices, on NFL futures bets, like their most valuable player numbers are upright.

now. Patrick Mahomes, a plus 540 overall favorite to win the MVP in 2024, followed by Josh Allen at plus 730, Joe Burrow at plus 850, and then C.J. Stroud is the fourth pick at plus 910 to win the 2024 MVP. Last year's MVP, Lamar Jackson, is at plus 175. He is fifth behind Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Stroud. Where does the first commander come in? I am scrolling down through the list. I would imagine that no Washington player is on the list, unless Jaden Daniels is here somewhere.

He's probably here somewhere. He'll certainly be super high in the rookie of the year. Prop bets. Here he is. Here he is. Jaden Daniels plus 15,000. All right, but he's got better odds than Kenny Pickett, better odds than Drake May at plus 19,000 to win the MVP. No rookie quarterback is winning the MVP.

If I had to make a wager right now in looking at the My Booky Futures MVP odds, how about Jordan Love at plus 1275? How about Aaron Rogers at plus 2000? MyBooky.ag.agy.com. My bookie's got all of the week one NFL lines up already. I've already mentioned to you that Washington at MyBooky is a four-point underdog on September 8th at Tampa Bay with the total at 41.5. But they've got all of the week one lines up. Just go to mybooky.ag or mybooky.com and use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. All right, as promise, jumping on with me right now on the podcast is Tom Friend.

We've had Tom on the show previously, including, by the way, the last time I had you on was right after the sale of the team to Josh Harris. And you told everybody that you went to, I'm forgetting the name of the elementary school now in Chevy Chase, but Tom grew up in Chevy Chase and went to the same school. Rolling Wood Elementary. Rollingwood Elementary. With Josh Harrison, with Mark Eind. But if my memory serves me correctly, you're older than them. And maybe it was your brother or sister who was in their class?

My sister. Your sister, yeah. Okay. Anyway, Tom is the NBA writer for sports business journal. But, you know, Tom's had an incredible career as a sports writer and columnist and worked in so many different places. The L.A. Times, the New York Times, wrote and worked for ESPN. but for many of you listening of a certain age,

you remember Tom in the same way that I remember Tom, which was his years back in the late 80s covering the Redskins as the Beat Reporter for the Washington Post. By the way, so we're going to start with something that I didn't tell you we would start with and that I wasn't planning on starting with until I started to just get a little bit prepped for this to remind myself of your history and the fact that we basically grew up with the same, you know, outsized importance of the Redskins in our lives.

And, you know, I think you also were from a family that had season tickets and we're in RFK Stadium every Sunday and Monday night, and I was fortunate to be in that same situation. So here's a question to start off our conversation on the football team right now. If there was one game that you could go back and relive in person at RFK or on television watching it, give me the game. Oh, my goodness. Well, let's stick to RFK because I've got to do that. There's three games at RFK that are magical for me.

The NFC championship game in 1972, which gets them to the Super Bowl, I would, I think that's the one. I mean, I got to say that 82 game when they beat Dallas, I was there. And I remember it like yesterday. And then there was a game against the Giants in 82 when Moseley kicked the field goal to break the all-time record for most people. In the snow. It basically put them in the playoffs, and it just was a magical. I was home from college for Christmas break or Thanksgiving, I forget. And I was just, oh, it was just heaven.

But I got to say that 72 NFC championship game was at the beginning. of an era where the Washington Redskins from 1971 to 1992 had only two non-winning seasons. And 7 and 9 and 6 and 98 and then the 6 and 10 were under Part D. Right? So, you know, that was it. So you talk about it era, but that game just, it's magical. It is just magical. That stadium

that the field was dirt. The way that the lines, the numbers were, had color on them. The way they colored the field, it was just, it was just magical. It was New Year's Eve. Christmas, New Year's Eve, 1972. And I had my first beer that night. How about that? Well, you're older than I am.

Let me just say that the 72 game is not really available anywhere. You know, almost any of every game that we watched her and grew up with, so many of those games are available on YouTube. have found copies of them, put them up. I mean, I found not the whole game, but I found like the final, you know, some of the big plays in the fourth quarter and overtime of the 75 overtime game against the Cowboys when Kilmer took it in from the one. And Houston had to pick to set it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Houston. But that, the actual CBS broadcast of that game, it's not in its entirety, but a lot of,

the big plays in the fourth quarter and overtime are there. But the 72 title game, it just doesn't exist anywhere. No, NFL films is the only way you can see it. It's not the same because the highlights are too perfect. I mean, you want to see the broadcast. There are some people who have shot footage on their little eight millimeter camera that they brought to the stadium that day. You can find little snippets. You're right. You can't find that broadcast. I wish you could. Yeah, I wish you could too. Those are three good ones. Kevin, I got to say, that game was blacked out in D.C.

I know. In Chevy, I could not watch. So we went to Baltimore to a family member to watch the Packers game, the playoff game the week before on Christmas Eve. We went to Baltimore. The night of the New Year's Eve, we went to the Holiday Inn on Old Georgetown Road, I believe it was Old Georgetown Road, and rented a room. and the entire hotel was Redskins fans because the antenna could reach the Baltimore station. So you could hear people pounding on the floor and everything in the hotel room. And everybody checked out.

You know, whenever the game was over, everybody checks out of it and they're running into the streets. It was just insane. You had to go to a hotel to watch that game. So I mean, these are my first memories. Actually, the very first Redskins memory I have is my father letting me stay up to watch the Rams. game in 71 when they clinched the playoff birth at the LA Coliseum on Monday night football. But in 72, it's so funny because that playoff game against the Packers, we had to go to my Aunt Karen's house on Christmas Eve because she lived in an apartment

and she got Channel 2 out of Baltimore. And that's what we did. But when I say we, I did. my father and my two uncles were at the game because we had season tickets, but I couldn't go to that game. I went to the 72 championship game that year, but it was, it was,

God, it's, the memory of that is very, very vague other than driving home through the city and having people out on their, you know, front steps banging on pots and pans. but that was partly because it was New Year's Eve, too. But that ticket, the tickets, we had season tickets through AAA, and my dad had a client with AAA, and he'd get the tickets,

but those playoff games, Triple A didn't hand them over. We had them for the regular season and the rest of my life growing up, but those two games, we couldn't go, so we had to go Baltimore and the hotel. So that ticket was insane. They get a ticket to that game. It was very difficult. I just, I don't remember it that much. went with my two uncles because my mother and father were in Las Vegas for New Year's.

That's why I got to go. And God bless my uncles for being kind enough to take me to it. But I don't really remember the details of that other than having studied that game well after the fact. But I do remember the Packers playoff game. I think the 83 championship game, if I could go back in January of 83 and relive what that felt like. I still think in my lifetime of going to a lot of sporting events, and you've been to more than I've been to because you've been covering so many of them.

I don't think I've ever been in a stadium or an arena that juiced up and that loud. And the thing that I'll never forget about that day is we were a family that we were, you know, my father would, we'd leave the house at 1215 and we'd be walking. you know, up the aisle to our seats as the game was kicking off. We were not early arrivers. My father was also one that wanted to leave early if the game was, you know, kind of in hand. I was not allowed with my family. I hated that. But on that particular day, we went an hour before the game started. And everybody was in their seats 45 minutes before kickoff, chanting, we want Dallas. And I don't think. Yeah.

That game gave me the hebie-jeebies because all I could think of was Gary Hoga Boom at 74. And when Clint Longley in 704, with Gary Hoguebubo, Longley in 74, you know, comes it off the bench with Stalbeck gets hurt. In 80, in that game, you're talking about Danny White gets knocked out by Dexter and in comes Hogueabum, and he led some drives. It's like, oh, my, it's happening all over again. And then that great play by Dexter and Darryl Grant. You're right. that's probably the, if you're going to pick one play in Redskin history, other than the Riggins run in Super Bowl and the Super Bowl 17, you've got to say it was the touchdown Dale

Grant's, that's the ultimate. I think the conversation after what is a clear-cut number one of the most memorable plays in franchise history, the most memorable play in D.C. sports history, which is the Riggins' fourth in one run in the Rose Bowl to win the Super Bowl against Miami and Super Bowl 17. think it's Darrell Grant, Dexter, and then I actually think that the Darrell Green punt return is the one that you might debate on, maybe. But I would go with Darrell Grant, Dexter Manly. Dexter Manley tips it up into the air. Darrell Grant returns it for a touchdown. And now, as Frank Herzog said, the stadium shakes. That was just an incredible day. And remember, too,

They were underdogs. We were, the Redskins were three-point underdogs to the Cowboys that day. They had lost one game in the shortened season, and the 82 strike short in season. It was at home to the Cowboys, and they got hammered by the Cowboys that day. It wasn't even close. Correct. And the Redskins hadn't broken through yet. Yeah.

You know, 801, they had the great run to go 8 and 8, but at 82, they were still skepticism. And they were a team that Gibbs always used to say, we've got to play great to win. We got to play as a unit to win. We're not that talent. He used to, you know, lay in the weeds a little bit. You know, but the team was gaining game. They got their personality by then. And, you know, that was the game that really showed that personality for the next decade.

I mean, it was, it was electric. And, you know, so that's why people like me want a name similar to the red. It's got to be red wolves or red tails. That's why I'm like this. This is what, anybody who's younger, we're hearing this, this is the generation that grew up with our city's identity was that. There was no nationals. The capitals, nobody cared about the capitals. The bullets were great in the late 70s, but, you know, the Redskins owned the town more than you could ever imagine.

And I just, you know, I'll never get past that era. And that's the problem with my generation is that we're just never going to get past. And that's, that's it. Well, so let's start there because I actually. in the opening segment to the podcast today, I started with this Washington Post poll that they put out today. I actually sent you a link to it because I knew you were coming on with me today, and I wanted you to read it, and I was going to ask you about this, but you went there before I was going to get there. But let's talk about this. I had, did you read it? Did you read through the results of it? I just saw that people don't like commanders, which, you know, thank God. So let me give you two big takeaways, all right? The first question asked is regardless of what you think about the Washington commanders as a football team, which which of the following best describes how you feel about the name the commanders? Do you love it, like it, dislike it, or hate it?

And basically, you know, sports fans, most sports fans, 54% either dislike or hate the name. commanders fans, 58% say they don't like it or hate it. But then the follow-up question is, you know, would you prefer the name B? And they give three options. The commanders, Washington football team, or find a new and different name. And that particular part of the polling was most interesting to me, because 16% only said, that they would keep commanders, meaning 84% would not. And then a lot of people started volunteering names.

So Washington football team came in at 17%. Redskins came in at 16%. But Redskins was not one of the alternatives provided. It was commanders, Washington football team were find a new and different name. Find a new and different name came in at 30%. And then you had Red Wolves at 3%, Red Tails, 2%. Warriors, 2%, generals 1%, and then 14% had no opinion. Anyway, for me, two takeaways.

84% of the people want the name changed, right? Because 16% don't want commanders. Only 16% want commanders. But then here's the part that I also think is a takeaway on this. There's no easy solution here. There's obvious want for change, But there's no universal agreement on what the change should be, and therefore this is challenging, majorly challenging for ownership.

So what do you think? Well, look, I talk to two people close to ownership. I don't report on this stuff anymore, so I'm not acting like this is a breaking news or anything, but they tried to do warriors from what I'm told. They tried to do it. and it got shot down. They went to the Native American constituency. They went to the league.

It got shot down. And I don't know why. I mean, Warriors, the Golden State Warriors, you know, and you look at what the Chiefs fans do and the Braves fans do. You just don't what is the problem. But I think Warriors seem to be what they wanted to do. It's not going to happen, it looks like. So the next step, from what I heard, I told to someone who said,

listen, if we win, it doesn't matter. We could be the commanders that we win. Nobody cares. I disagree with that. And then I had someone else tell me they're looking at it now, but they are going to look at it. It's not more than look at. They're going to do it at some point.

It's just a matter of when. So that's what I'm hoping is the case. Again, I'm not reporting. I'm just saying this is what I hear. Scuddle butt. You talk to people close to the situation. But I just think eventually, there's too much of a clamor here, Kevin.

I mean, there's too many people don't like it. I mean, I can't even say the name. I can't even say the seat, whatever. I can't even say it. I'll fall apart if I have to say it. I'd rather Washington football team, to be honest. You know, listen, you can do that quickly. They made that transition.

They got rid of the Redskins and they got to, became Washington football team very quickly. Why couldn't you just do it again quickly? Bag his name, become Washington football team and figure it out. Because no one likes this. And it's clear, you know, the polls support it, get the heck rid of it. You know, but that's me.

You know, there's other people who are, matter. It doesn't matter. So, you know, that's the problem here. A lot of divisiveness on this. Well, you know, you're not reporting on this necessarily, but you just gave information that I think will be very interesting to the people that are listening to this and maybe even more people because I had not heard. I have not read. I have talked to people about this over the last 10 months since they acquired the team. I mean, I had people tell me point blank, and I shared this with the audience that they are definitely going to look at this, that many people among a very large ownership group, 20 plus people, do not like the name and want to change it because many of those people are Washingtonians. but I had not heard, and I have not read, that they tried to do warriors and it got shot down, that some people then said, well, if we win, they'll just, you know, accept the commanders.

I'm completely with you. I disagree with that. And now, you know, the last part of it is that they are definitely going to look into doing this. When you say look into doing this, do you think based on people that you've talked to that are somewhat, in the no. Is that a fair way to describe the people? Someone in the no, for sure, for sure, absolutely. 100%. Do you think that they're looking

into it with the end game being to change it? Yes, I think they're vetting it now. I think it's a slower process. That's just the gut I got. I mean, it's not gut. Someone said this to me. The Warriors thing, I don't know, the one I don't know is what just happened before when they

made the brand change, where they try to get Warriors or if it was after, the new ownership. I can't see you. Oh, well, that's a big deal because I think that there's no doubt that Warriors was, you know, initially considered. But, you know, Snyder, I was always told that that was Snyder's, you know, plan if he ever lost or was forced to change the name. The person who told him, Kevin, the person who told me, Kevin, the person who told me that they tried to get warriors out. It wasn't said to me, like, they tried or Snyder's good to try.

I don't know. I don't want to say it was a new group, you know, but I know that was vetted, and they tried to get the name. Yeah. At some point. Okay. Well, I mean, I just want, I want to clarify that because I think that, because Warriors, I think, was always a plan that Snyder had if you were ever to be forced into it. And I think during the 2020 change and then what led up to, you know, February 2nd, 2022, the actual unveiling of the current name, I think they, they, they, Warriors, would. was definitely looked at. I was told at one point that they actually let the mark expire, which would be typical Snyder, right? And that they had it marked for a long period of time, and they own the mark. Now, the Golden State Warriors, you'd think, would have a mark on that,

but maybe it was the Washington as part of it. I don't know. That's not necessarily. They could always go back to it, try it again, right? I mean, I think that seems like the best solution. You get, maybe you get the emblem, you know, maybe not, maybe don't get the old logo. I get that, but even though I don't, it's a proud, this is, this was always my argument. This was not a franchise that did anything but celebrate Native American. This was not a, we never, and I went to RFK my entire life the time I was six years old, not once did I ever Tomahawk shop, not once did ever do the war chance. All we said was hail to the redskins, okay?

We had a, you know, if you want to pick on the old redskinned after you dressed up like, Little Indian squads, okay. But, I mean, in all seriousness, there was no mocking going on. And, you know, I just, I find it difficult to believe that if we do something a little different, doesn't have to be redskins, but something of variation, it's offensive. The logo, I'm talking about the logo, too. But, again, I'm not, you know, that's probably not going to work, but I don't know. This current commanders block with a feather, they're the big to-do-do-do when coach wore that

to the press conference. I can't even wear that because it has the new emblem. I'm sorry. No, I mean, it's attached to, yes. I'm my pocket. It's attached to the W. I'm forgetting now. No, I mean, I think you know this. I'm with you.

I mean, the hypocrisy of all of this just drives me crazy. You know, the Tomahawk chop in Atlanta and Arrowhead and, you know, like, and to me, the logo is completely separate from the name. There's never been any discussion. about the logo being insensitive in any way, shape, or form. And that's a big deal out. I mean, the Cleveland Indian logo was bad. Yeah.

Chief Wahoo was, it was, yeah, was insensitive. There's no doubt. It was a caricature. How about Atlanta when they, in Atlanta, when they used to hit home runs with the brave chief Nacaoma, Nacaoma, right? You used to come down the slide or whatever they used to do. I mean, nothing like that in Washington. It was just hailed to the Redskins.

And, you know, maybe it's Potomics. People like Potomics. I mean, to me, I would be happy with it. that. So watch the Potomac, if that could be worked out. I don't see you could have that, you know, logo maybe or something similar. I don't know, but I don't know if that's feigning any steam there. I mean, I'm going to say this, and I've had people accuse me of, like, talking it into existence, and I just want to share with everybody, we're not talking anything to it into existence. These are big boys who are playing a much bigger game than, you know, a guy who writes for

sports business journal, an esteemed writer, no doubt, and a guy that does a sports, sports talk show. We're not talking anything into existence. I don't think there's any chance ever that Redskins is coming back. And by the way, I think if I paid $6 billion for the team, I don't know that I'd want to deal with that either. And I don't think the league wants to deal with it, but let me just take it a step further. I just don't think they're going to go in the direction of anything that resembles Native American or Native American imagery. I just don't think they're going down that path. Yeah, I like Washington

arrows with the old arrow on the helmet. I don't know. I just want something different. I just want Washington. I just want Washington. And then people like you and I can call them the skins and people can call them the burgundy and gold. People can call them the hogs. And we'll be, you know, the soccer version of the NFL where there's, it's Washington football team

and everybody's got their nicknames for the team. That's my preference. But it's got to come with bringing back the uniforms. and the W on the helmet I'll live with, you know, as long as it's burgundy and gold. Burgundy and gold. You know? Listen, we root for the uniform. Fans root for the uniform.

I don't, you know, look, when Brian Mitchell, God bless him, when he went to play for the Eagles and Giants, I'm with a root for them anymore. You know, when Jay Schrader went to the Oakland Raiders, I wasn't, you know, my point is that we root for the uniform, okay? That's, maybe I'm in the minority on that, but that's how I feel. And, you know, you keep the Burgundy and go, you keep the old uniforms, and I think people be happy. Go back to watch the football team uniforms.

People be happy. You know what's funny about what you just said? I feel differently about the players when they left here. Now, I did not root for Jay Schrader because I couldn't stand Jay Schrader, but I rooted for Art Monk, I rooted for Gary Clark, I rooted for Dexter, I rooted for Rip, I rooted for, I so hard rooted for Brian Mitchell in those playoff games when he was returning kicks and punts for the Eagles. Well, when I say rooted for them, I mean, they played against, you know, I wasn't

I'm going to come back up, you know. And everybody knows that listens to this podcast. I still root for Kirk Cousins. But we don't have to go down that path. Or as my good friend Al Galdi refers to him as, you know who, because it's such a triggering name. All right. Well, we covered that. So let's move.

I think that's interesting. Tom Friend, who is a longtime writer and is with Sports Business Journal. says that they are vetting the name thing right now, according to people in the know that he's referencing. People close to the situation. How close to the situation can we get with this report that you're giving us? It's not the Chevy Chase guys that I grew up around. But it's somebody who's very, very close.

Let's put it like that. All right. That's good news. And I'll tell you why. I have felt recently because I haven't heard anything from people that I talk to about it other than, you know, I did have somebody sort of suggest that something I had said was kind of close to right recently, which was maybe they're holding off on saying anything about the name until the RFK site bill gets through the Senate. They don't want to muck it up with any of the name stuff. And so maybe that thing will pass through the Senate, hopefully, and maybe then we'll get an update from Josh Harris. But what's been concerning to me is not hearing anything. I started to wonder, are they just waiting this thing out? You know, you said that somebody at one point said to you... No, someone very prominent that told me they'll just be...

If we win, we're good. So I'm not discounting that, Kevin. I think there's still a contingent there that feels that way. You know, Mitchell Rails is interesting to me. I don't know. Something about Mitchell Rails. Like, I think he gets it. I think he's an, you know, he's around, older than me, but, you know, he's from my, you know, he's a baby boomer.

And I just think that, I think I'm counting on him being a voice of reason here. Yeah, I think he's behind the scenes gets it more than anybody. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah. I think he's the guy. He and his brother grew up going to all these games, you know? All right. In all seriousness, though, we're going to move on to what you think of the draft and what you think of Adam Peters and Dan Quinn and everything else. And we'll talk some NBA with

Tom Friend as well. But, you know, you've said something here and I want to make sure you're okay with this that, you know, according to people close to the situation that you've talked to, they are vetting the name situation right now. Yeah, it's not. It's definitely, play to change the name at some point. I don't know when, where, but from what I, someone said straight to my face that they're, they're looking at it. Okay. So, let's talk about, I'm not reporting it. No, but you know how this will work. You know how this works, though. That's what I'm, I'm just, I want to make sure you're comfortable with this because I, I think this more likely than not, people will pay attention to what you just said.

someone someone very close told me that they're looking at it yep I can't deny that so a lot of change since we last spoke I mean one of I think one of the worst seasons in franchise history

because and you know it was probably sabotaged from the beginning because there was a lame duck head coach an offensive coordinator that nobody in the league wanted except for this team and it was a horrific season.

They got absolutely annihilated more times than I can ever remember in a given season. But all of the change came. So let's start with your thoughts on the general manager, Adam Peters. What did you know about him? What do you think about him? Well, I knew he was a rising star. I knew that behind the scenes he's the guy that made the Brock Purdy decision. I mean, you know, that doesn't mean he wasn't part of the other.

that the court of Trey Lances isn't either, but I'm just saying I think that he's shown that he wants big physical fast, you know, he's an athlete guy, you know, he, you know, he, I don't think he would have drafted the manual for him. I don't think he would have drafted that size of kid, right? You know, I just, I just think he's his perception, he just wants to, his teams to get off the bus looking like they're going to win the game, right? And so that's what you hear, and then he backed it up at the draft. I love that he's hiring everybody around everybody around him is hiring with very quality people. And people are coming

from really good situation. Like Newmark comes from an up and coming situation in Detroit. You get a guy from Baltimore, you get a guy from all over the league that are really quality people. So that says a lot. And I know that, listen, Beatherd, I covered

the Redskins in the late age with Beatherd. And, you know, he had Dick Daniel and he had other guys who were really, really sharp people. And, you know, I think Adam Peters had that have to feel to them. You know, that's just my take on it. And I have a lot of confidence there that they're going to get it right. I really do. Yeah. Uh, were you okay with the Dan Quinn hire? Well, I mean, you know, look, I mean, I think we all got sold with the guy from Detroit,

you know, and that was going to be the preference. And I think I, like everybody else, sort of got wrapped up in that. But the Dan Quinn hire has grown on me just because of the staff he's put together. Yeah. If you compare the staff he's put together compared to what the guy's done in Seattle, who they almost, you know, they were considering the Baltimore kid. I just feel like Quinn's staff just makes it. Because if you look at Gibbs' staff, amazing staff, you know, Dan Henning and just still every, Wayne Severe and everybody he had around him there, you have to have a great quality

staff. And I don't think Rivera did. And I think that everything he's done here with Dan Quinn's done here is just put together, it's just remarkable, you know. So that's a great plus right there, right? On that alone, I think Dan Queen is a win right there. What about the off-season that they've had, and we have to start with the most important part of the off-season,

the quarterback that they drafted, number two overall, Jaden Daniels. Who was your guy before the draft? Well, was Jaden Daniels? I mean, I'm a Missouri alum, okay? So I saw Shaded Daniel just tear my school up. On our home field, I mean, Missouri was playing their best football, and he just single-handedly won that game for them.

And he was hurt. He had great receivers, and he was playing hurt, and he just, you know, they were down. He came, you know, he was just amazing that day, and I was like, whoa. And then you'd see him throw, and I was a little bit, you know, look, I mean, this whole Drake May thing just threw me for a loop. I just was having this, you know, this band base sometimes drives me nutty.

I mean, with it, you know, just the howlers, became the Bayberries, and it was just, you know, it was just everybody on this guy. He hadn't done anything in college to make you to say that he's a second overall pick, but there was this division in the fan base, but I always thought Daniels was the guy, and now that you've seen him up close, and I know it's just OTAs and mini-camp. The difference between RG3 and him, Kevin, is just a personality thing. He's not a me, me, me guy, right? He's a team guy.

he's very low maintenance, it seems like. He's a hard worker. He's humble. He wants to get better. He just feels different. And I feel like his arm is just very underrated how good a pastor he is. Do I worry about him getting hurt? Yeah, I worry about him getting hurt.

And if you're going to ask me about the offseason, Kevin, I'm still ticked off. They didn't get a left tackle. I mean, we'll see if this kid they drafted. Coleman is a surprise, the third round. but that's the one thing that worries me. Everything that they've done the offseason I'm happy with except for the left tackle situation, it scares me to death.

And, you know, I would have, I don't know. I mean, the second round pick, the tackle, I know he's supposed to be a first round pick, and now he's hurt, but I almost would have wanted to draft a tackle there, but they had some opportunities. So I'm a little concerned there. But otherwise, you know, I'm excited about the defense, actually. Louvo and Louvo and everything else they've signed.

chin the whole thing. I just feel like, you know, Wagner. It's going to be really, really fun to watch the defense, too. What are your expectations for this upcoming season? Like what would you consider to be a successful 2024 season? Be physical, be competitive, scared living daylights out of the cowboys and the eagles and the Giants. Finally beat the Giants once. Be the Giants once. You know, 8 and 9 is. fine. You know, not an, you know,

not able to be phenomenal, but, you know, be a team on the ride. Don't be a team under the clock. You know, be a team that's physical and it's going to scare people

and that Jada Daniels stays healthy and improves. My expectations are not playoffs. I'm not going to go there. Okay? But I feel like they've got to make strides in the right direction,

scare people, and be a Dan Quinn type team. No, no eggs. Don't lay eggs like I laid last. year, right? Every game, there were so many of those. And when they see the bears, you know, just don't let the bears do with, again, what they did, you know, that kind of game. Don't have those kind of games. You really felt some of these games last year.

They were ugly. Well, what was the score at halftime? It was like 30 to three or something on that Thursday night. I don't want any of those Michael Vick games with, you know, cut down the first play and all of us. You know, look, be a team that's just, You don't want to play him. You know, I think that's what he wants to be, don't you? I think that's what they say. I love the first part of that because I have been saying to me this season's all about

Jaden Daniels. It's about getting to the end of the season with him, by the way, upright and healthy. And all of us recognizing collectively they made the right choice. This guy's going to be the guy. That that's the most important thing. but I think adding the physical style of play, like they were such dormats defensively last year. It was, and there is a bit of that personality of Quinn in Dallas,

you know, takeaways and making plays defensively. But I like the physical part. I want them to be a team that, you know, can stand up with the bigger boys. in the league. They haven't been able to do that in a long time. Actually, you know, it's interesting about that is if we go back to just 2020, the COVID year, the truth is they were running the shit out of the ball with Antonio Gibson when they got back into the playoffs mix. And then they did the same thing in 21, you know, when they won those four games in a row when they beat, you know, Vegas and Seattle on a Monday night and what was the game that kicked that off? The win over Brady.

in Tampa Bay. And it was Taylor Heineke at quarterback, so you were majorly limited from doing much. But I'd like that part of, of, I like what you said about just that part of the personality, becoming a part of the team. But here's the problem. But this is why, Kevin, I don't think it's going to happen this year. Because it's the offensive line. To me, I just feel like that is maybe, again, this is the Gibbs era in me that I experienced and covered. You've got to win the line of scriments.

is off. The offensive line is the most important spot on the team. I'm sorry that it is. You know, in 81 draft, you know, Gibbs comes in. What did they get? They got almost every hog that year, all right? And they, that set the tone. They made won three Super Bowls with three different starting quarterbacks and three different starting tailbacks, but the same offensive line. And that's what they've got to do. They need another draft offensive line. They need a draft a tackle next year in the first round and get that thing solidified. And when they do that, compete for playoff spots. You know, that offensive line changed over those years.

I mean, Bostick and Jacoby and Grimm were the constants. They filled in. They filled in. I mean, you know, McKenzie comes in, Molly comes in, and Tielman and obviously Lichet. Lichet was the big one in 91. Yeah. Speaking of the Schrader trade, right? Yeah. But, I mean, I just think that ultimately that Mark May, Russ Grimm, and Joe Jacoby,

and Jeff Bostic, those to me, that was the heart. We're talking about that 82 championship game. That was the hogs. And Russ Grimm's saying, Randy White is coming up your ass. You know, it's coming right up your ass right now. That was Rush Grimm. That's the hogs right then. That day established the hogs.

And, you know, so. I hear you on that. I think today it's different. I would argue that getting the quarterback right is the most important thing. And I don't even think there's a close second. But with that said, Look at Philadelphia, look at, you know, the teams, look at Detroit right now. 100% right.

San Francisco, you know, San Francisco in part has done it without a quarterback, but they haven't won it, but they've gotten to a couple. So anyway, all right. What else on our team? Because I do want to talk some NBA, some NBA TV deal stuff that you've been writing about. And I want to get your thoughts on Bill Walton because I know you're writing about him as well. But what else on the team do you want to say that I haven't asked you about? Well, the stadium thing, what's going on there?

Because it needs to be in D.C. I really feel like you need to get out of the whole FedEx field, sort of Snyder. Although Snatter didn't build the place, that was Jack and Cook's worst decision ever as owner. And that's right that wrong, get it back in the RFK area. And I know that that's what they want to do, obviously. obviously. And, you know, it's just what worries me, and you're more close to it than I am, and what's going on, the D.C., when they get the wizard's thing, situation, does that change

the Redskin situation? And that's what I wonder about, you know, that to me is a big deal. As much as the name's a big deal, the stadium is even bigger, maybe. Is it bigger? Is it bigger for you than the name? No, no, the name's bigger. Okay. I was curious, because I think for me, the name is bigger than the stadium. Look, winning, and this is where people can't walk and chew gum at the same time, we can do all of these things simultaneously.

They're going to win. Winning's the most important thing, but in terms of these other things, the name is more important than the stadium for me. The name and the branding and everything, I want something that I can identify as the team that I grew up and is part of my sports fan DNA. And I don't view the team that way right now. Yeah. Right.

Did the Pittsburgh Steelers uniform ever changed? Did the Dallas Cowboys uniform ever changed? Right. To the San Francisco 49ers uniform ever changed? You know, a little bit. A little bit. But these are little something. Right, right, right.

They don't wear black jerseys. I'm sorry. I actually think the old blacks are the only ones that are worth looking at. I hear you. I think my-git-gold, man. My personal view is they're going to figure it out. they're going to be back at RFK because I think you already mentioned Mitch Rails. I bet you more than anything else Mitch Rails wants a stadium back at the RFK site.

And the issue will be whether or not, you know, D.C. gets, you know, they're going to get the land. It'll get through the Senate. I think most people believe that. But then there's going to have to be, you know, major contribution towards this thing from the city. I mean, they're not paying for this stadium on their own. There's no way. Not after paying $6 billion for a team and not after looking at places like Nashville and Buffalo that have gotten major taxpayer, you know, contribution towards this thing. How they do it, I don't know the mechanisms, you know, bonds, whatever. But I think it'll end up at RFK.

All right. Let's talk a little bit of NBA, Bill Walton, and the NBA TV stuff because you've been writing about that recently. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor to the podcast. The new sponsor is unified-hield, UNI-F-Y-D-H healing. It doesn't matter if you're a big-time world-class athlete or just a somewhat athletic podcaster like me. We all understand the importance of mental and physical well-being and proper recovery for top-notch performance. That's why I'm excited that Unified Healing

is sponsoring the podcast now. Unified Healing is a new and super innovative global network of wellness centers powered by energy enhancement system or EE system. If you haven't heard of the EE system yet, listen up. This technology promotes wellness, deep relaxation, purification, and rejuvenation, Whether you're here in the DMV or anywhere else across the globe, access to a center is easy and affordable. Interested in experiencing the EE-System technology for yourself, we'll go to unifiedhealing.com slash Sheehan to learn more and find a center near you. That's Unified spelled, Unified, Healing.com slash Sheean. No material or testimonies on the Unified Healing Webster.

website are intended to be viewed as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EE system. This segment of the show brought to you by Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com. Mention my name. You'll get a free estimate, you'll also get access if you reach out to them between now and the end of the month to their semi-annual sale, which includes 50% off all windows and window styles, zero percent interest for five years, and if you schedule your in-home estimate, which is

free, before the end of the month, you'll get an additional bonus as well by mentioning my name. Window Nation will help you identify the windows in your home that actually need to be changed. If there are windows in your home that are fine, they're not going to tell you to change those windows. Have them come out. Give you a free estimate. Identify the windows that are too old and are costing you money or costing you on higher heating bills, higher air conditioning bills. Wind Donation's got the best product, the best people, and right now I think the best offer. Just give them a shot.

Call them at 866.9 Nation. We're head to windownation.com. We continue with Tom Friend because one of the reasons I reached out to him was to talk NBA and talk about these NBA TV deals and perhaps the end of what I think is, along with college game day, probably the greatest studio show of all time inside the NBA. But before we get to that, you are in the midst of writing about Bill Walton. So just give me your thoughts on him. You're of the age of remembering Bill Walton.

You grew up in the D.C. area and remember Lefty in Maryland's teams and UCLA at the East. And I had McMillan on the radio show yesterday. He was talking about, you know, he was the number one high school player in the country in 1970. Walton was number two, actually. Yeah. But anyway. Now, you talk about games. We were talking about the 72 NFC championship game that can't be found.

I want that December. Pauley Pavilion. 1973 game. Pauley Pavilion, Terts had them. They had them. They played a great game, and Lucas had the ball. I went out of bounds off his foot or something. He didn't get a shot. Just like the NC State 100-300 game.

They didn't get a shot, you know? Yeah, at the end of regulation. Walton was a living legend in college. If you ever watched him play, I want you to think Yokic, but not the range of Yokic, but the passing and the vision and the make his teammates better. He was Larry Bird at 7, 6'11, basically.

I mean, he was a phenomenal player. I mean, anybody needs to YouTube the 1973 NCAA championship game when he goes for 21 for 22 from the field for 44 points. So that being said, he also was arrested, thrown in the slumber for protesting the national

hand, I mean, for Vietnam, for protesting Vietnam when he was a student. He did not play on the 72 Olympic team because of that, because of the issues in the country. country, and that team lost at USSR and a controversial game. If Walt who plays that game, there's no way it's even close. Right.

He was the best player in college basketball doesn't play. But back then, he was a sullen sort of mystery. You know, he was a guy who was tied by association to the Patty Hurst kidnapping. There was so much surrounding him, and his feet breakdown. He's accusing his team doctor, suing his team doctor at Portland. But over the years, Kevin, I knew him pretty well. I've been to his house. His house overlooked the San Diego Zoo.

And, you know, literally in Balboa Park in San Diego, he had this teepee in the backyard. And every room was, there was a Bob Dylan room. There was a Jerry Garcia room. You know, this was a music officiato. He was a basketball, you know, legacy and telling stories about Red Hour back. And so he was larger than life. I mean, he always, he was a master of hyperbole, you know, you're the greatest writer on the face of the other than he said the next guy.

You're the greatest writer on the face of the next guy. You know, but, you know, there was a charm about Bill that you just loved him. And, you know, ESPN made him because he had, at CBS and NBC was, and this is what I'm writing about, you know, at CBS and NBC, he was left for just another guy. And then ESPN hired him and the forum, you know, ESPN News, ESPN 2, the pregame show, the post-game show, SportsCenter, you know, all that. It just was the perfect forum for him to blossom, and he was not afraid to do any of it. And, you know, he was just a magical figure.

It's funny. I saw him and Len Elmore together at the All-Star game this year in February, at February over in Minneapolis. They were both there. And I saw Lenny, and I, and then he just talked about Bill with a big smile on his face about, you know, just how Bill is. the bill never let him down about that game in 73 against the Terpson it's sad he never let anybody know he had cancer

he kept that to himself I know he was not always healthy but I didn't know he was in that shape and you know he's a he's a friend and you know I did a documentary on Ronor-R-Test for showtime called Quiet Storm and you know

Bill is prominent in that he was the announcer that night the malice of the palace he was the announcer he was Yeah, yeah. He was the color analyst from him and Mike Breen did that game. Wow. Yeah, and, you know, in the broadcast, you know,

he's saying it's the lowest moment in the history. And so he's in the documentary, you know, talking about our test and to show you about how life is, our test went on Twitter the other day, saying how much he, you know, admire Bill Walton after Bill just ripped up apart in my documentary. But, you know, Bill was not afraid to say what he wanted to say. and he's up there in the pantheon. I'll leave it up there in the pantheon of ESPN.

If you talk about Stuart Scott, and you talk about, you know, Mort and some of these icons from ESPN, and I worked there for 20 years, and I know that Bill is up there with those guys, and he meant a lot to so many people there. He was always a supportive, smiling face, and it's tragic, really tragic. So, first of all, I, Two things. Nobody knew that he was this sick. I'm sure his family did. But, you know, people like Jim Gray, I was listening to him on.

Very close with Jim Gray. Yeah, he was listening to him with Mad Dog yesterday. And he had a sense that maybe he wasn't well, but didn't really know for sure until very, very recently. And so that was one thing that I think caught everybody by surprise. But I think the reaction to his death. yesterday. I thought was overwhelming. Like, I didn't expect it to be that for Bill Walton. I'm wondering if you're surprised at it. There was so much. Yeah, go ahead. He died on Memorial.

He died on Memorial, excuse me, Kevin. He died on Memorial dead. It was nothing going, you know, it was maybe because it was a holiday. I don't know, how old. It was a slow news. Look, he's a big deal, but he just, he just was the whole spotlight that day. I mean, he was on the front. His obits on the front page of the New York Times.

That's a big deal. Listen, he may be, he may be, other than Kremebbedo, Lou Alciner at the time, maybe the greatest college player that ever played. I mean, honestly, he barely lost a game. And, you know, they had an 88-game win streak that, you know, Notre Dame. And Maryl almost stopped and Notre Dame got, John Schumait, those guys. But, you know, Adrian Dantley.

But I just, you know, he's maybe been. bigger than we all thought. Maybe we didn't put in the perspective what he was because it wasn't just a player. He was a broadcaster. And he was a broadcaster who put smile on people's faces. And you put people's, smile on people's faces, and you're a great athlete, and you're, and you welcome everybody into your life, and you give Jerry Garcia autograph for gifts, and you tell everyone they're the greatest, and everybody loved them. And this is in my story. There was a great anecdote. Someone from me has been saying that when Bill would get demoted, he would say, thank you.

you. You know, he'd be moved off to A team to the B team or the C team on a broadcast. Thank you. It's just that's Bill. I mean, he just, there was, and for a guy that was so sullen early in his career, you know, you didn't want to, as a player, I remember going up to him, he was not someone you wanted to approach. After a game, do you not expect a good interview.

And as he got older, when he got to the Celtics in 86, he just enjoyed life. You know, Larry Bird brought out the best in him. It was such a great fit. I mean, the sullenness was in part due, was it not, his inability to communicate because he had a stuttering problem. He had a huge stuttering problem, right? And Marty Glickman helped him solve that, and he became a broadcaster,

but I also think the sullenness had to do with the injuries. Yeah. I mean, he got hurt before that the Redaim game. When they have the 88 game win streak, they lost, I don't think it was healthy. He had had a back injury at Washington. state. And, you know, in fact, it's so funny because I wrote a story in Al Michael. Al Michaels is like, he's like Boris Gump. He's been everywhere. Now, Al Michaels was the voice of that

UCLA Bruins team. It's amazing. Was he really? I thought Enberg was. He was the TV, the TV voice, the TV voice of the 73, 74 Bruins. Yeah. That's unbelievable. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Because he was broadcasting the Giants up in the Bay Area, and they were owned by the same, the San Francisco giant, and they were owned by the same company that did the UCLA broadcast, that he did the TV. But he told me the story about how that day in Washington State, when Walton got hurt and ended up playing, they ended up playing the Redaim and got beat.

But, you know, Bill Walton was just. Yeah. You know, I had Billy Packer, I think I mentioned this Tommy yesterday. I had Billy Packer on the podcast three years ago, something like that. which would have been a year, two years before he passed away. And we were talking about a lot of those games. I mean, Billy Packer was the ACC guy with, it was Thacker and Packer doing games for C.D. Chesley.

And as an ACC guy and a Maryland guy, I mean, those were the games we watched. But he actually worked that Maryland-U-C-L-A game for what he said at the time. I think it was called T-VS. It was a-V-S. No question. That's what it was. Yeah. But I'm forgetting who called the game with him. It was a national telecast, even though it was on at 11.30 or 11 o'clock, East Coast time. I remember staying up.

I do too. I mean, that was another night. My father's like, you can stay up. You got to do your homework and you got to get a nap, but then you can stay up and watch this, whatever it was. But, yeah, Lucas got caught in the corner and never got a shot off. And, you know, they fouled UCLA as the horn went off. Richard Washington missed a one-in-one that gave Maryland a chance to win that game. But, yeah, but what I was referring to is the story that Lefty, that Billy Packer told about Lefty,

and that was after they turned the ball over, they fouled UCLA as the horn went off, and the referees were coming over to put more time on the clock, and it was, you know, a one-and-one situation. And Lefty went over to the scorestable to say there's no. time left. The game's over because he wanted to lose by one. He didn't want to lose by two or three, which is. Hey, what was the cover of Sports O'SRae the next week? Yeah, L. L.A. by a whisker. By a whisker. Yeah, it was Lenny and Lenny and Walton on the cover. You know, Len did, I don't know if you saw this, but Elmore and Walton. I saw the podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty. I actually, and I think I said this yesterday on the podcast, I thought Walton was a little bit off like during that. I thought it was

It was great to see the two of them together doing this. But I remember thinking to myself watching that, Walton seems a little bit. Maybe he was already starting to not feel well. It's such a tragedy when somebody passes that, and now 71, which is a young age to pass away. But I just was blown away by the reaction. I don't think I expected that. Oh, you mentioned something. And Tommy mentioned this to me yesterday on the podcast.

What was his involvement in the Patty Hurst kidnapping? You know, that was like the SLO or S? Yeah, the Sibilis military. Yeah. He was roommates with a guy who housed or was accused of housing refugee, you know, people who were wanted by the FBI. God name is Jack. Yeah, I got this.

But was he a friend of Walton? Jack Scott. He was Jack Scott. Bill Walton was roommates with Jack Scott, who was, you know, supposedly housed fugitive of the Sybini's Liberation Army. And he got questioned on it. And a great book to read is Breaks of the Game by David Halberstam. He wrote a book about the Portland Trailblazers Championship. You know, they're running the championship. And it gets into all this stuff. It's a tremendous book. That's one of my favorite books right there. Great basketball book. I haven't. I've certainly heard of the book. I've never read about it. But the 30 for 30 on Walton that ESPN did, which was just great, Halberstam's all over it, you know, because he was there for that 77 season.

Yeah, I mean, I kind of remember the whole Patty Hurst kidnapping and, you know, the brainwashing the whole thing. Yeah, right, because Bill was friends with roommates with Jack Scott, who was apparently tied to that to be the elimination army. That's why it was by association he didn't do anything there, but you know, he got

he got let off of that. You know, you also just reminded me as something because when you mentioned that you did the documentary on the Malice of the Palace, you also did a documentary on Chris Jackson. Sorry, I forget his name, Raouf,

Abdul Abdul Abdul. Mabdabdha. Yeah. And you also did a documentary because I'm remembering now that the last time I had you on, you mentioned that to me. I never did go watch it, but I just wrote down. What's the name of it again? It's called Stand, and it's on Paramount Plus, and we just got nominated for an sports Emmy. We didn't win, of course. I never missed it. But we did get nominated for that. Oh, wow. All right. Well, I'm going to go. I'm going to go watch that. because he was, I mean, he had Tourette's syndrome, right? It was Tourette's, I believe. He was the first to ever, you know, sit down and not, you know, stand for the national anthem.

Well, he was Colin Kaepernick before Colin Kaepernick. Yes. And that's why, you know, that's how we sold the documentary that, hey, this is the guy who did it first. And instead of being celebrated for it, where a lot of people now say, you know, Kaepernick was, you know, he's been celebrated. Nike's done commercials on him. He sort of get a lot of things in motion, but not Moud Abdul Abdul Roof. He was blackballed from the NBA and never to play again.

And so, and there were a lot of things involved in that, but he was never celebrated and lost his career, and he was, you know how good of a player he was. Oh, my God. He was so good playing. He was Jeff Curry before Steph Curry, basically. He was so good at LSU. So good. So it's called what it's called stand and it's on Paramount Plus and you got nominated for an Emmy.

So congratulations. I just wrote that down. I'm definitely going to watch that. All right. So I probably said that to you last year, but I'm going to do it this time. All right. So tell me real quickly what is going on with the NBA TV rights and whether or not, you know, TNT, which is owned by, I forget. get who it is, whether or not they're going to stay in the game or not. Warner Brothers.

Yeah. Well, you know, look, it could be changing as we're speaking here because it's all going down. But right now, NBC, Amazon, and Disney, ESPN are the frontrunners to have packages. They have frameworks and framework in place for deals where ESPN will get the A package. NBC would get the B-pack. So NBC would have a Sunday night in a basketball in America, Sunday night show, and Sunday night basketball, they would do Sunday nights, and Amazon would get a conference final that they would stream, and then they would do maybe a Saturday night broadcast. They'd maybe get the NBA TV package.

And then, of course, ESPN gets the finals every year. They were adamant. They were that. So ESPN is reportedly paying $2.6 billion. I've heard higher, but $2.6 billion has been reported. NBC's pitching, you know, bidding $2.5 billion for their past. package at about 1.8 for Amazon's. Where that leave Turner, well, Turner has the right to match the NBC package. Now, they believe they may have a right that matched the smaller Amazon package.

Lawyers are going to decide this. This is far from over because it is getting the legal situation with a matching rights. But the bottom line is Turner can't really match NBC's deal because NBC has broadcast windows. You know, they have over-the-air broadcast windows. You know, You could have a Sunday night broadcast, have a Friday night broadcast on NBC TV or Peacock, and Turner doesn't have that. They don't have an over-the-air station. So will they get creative and do something? Maybe they make a simultaneous deal with Fox to broadcast some games?

I don't know, but, you know, and plus Turner, WBD is $40 billion in debt. The company's only worth $18 billion. Are they going to pay $2.5 billion a year or more to get the NBA? I mean, they really can't match when NBC's doing. So that means that inside the NBA, you're right, one of the greatest shows to me, NFL today, college game day. College game day, those are the greatest studios of all time. Inside the NBA may be better than all of them. I mean, because Charles is in these Jack and Kenny, they're self-deprecating.

They don't act like they know it all. They just, they're funny, they're former players, they have a great chemistry, and Ernie Johnson makes it. Ernie Johnson's like everybody's uncle. So that show, Ernie's not leaving there. Ernie's not going to leave Atlanta. He's been with Turner forever. He's not going anywhere. So if Amazon gets it, I know from – I get a sense they want to get that show.

I think NBC wants the show. But can they get it in its entirety? Will they go to move the show to it, build a studio in Atlanta so Ernie can do the show. We'll Turner let Ernie do it because Ernie still does MLB and other things in Ciblay basketball. So, you know, a lot of things are flue. fluid, but it looks like at this moment that Turner may make a last-ditch effort to get it, maybe a smaller fourth package. Will the NBA out of, you know, be sympathetic and, you know, for their loyalty over the years,

do that? I don't know. But right now it boils down to you're talking about a $70 billion-plus deal over 10 or 11 years. That's coming. It's coming this week or next week. It's coming soon. Thanks for doing this. I really enjoy the conversations with you, and we should do it more often if you're available.

Anytime. I really enjoy, too. So from the same era. Exactly. Thanks, Tom. Appreciate it. Talk to you soon. Bye, ma'am. See. Tom Friend, everybody. Love having him on. He's always so good as a guest. He's been around, man. He's written for a lot of different places and done it well over the years. All right. Back tomorrow with Tommy.