The Kevin Sheehan Show - Pranks & 'Dawgs

Episode Date: January 11, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on Georgia's championship game win over Alabama. Also on the show, Kevin recapped why Thom's prank last week went terribly wrong. They talked WFT's season, Chase Young's answer on OTAs, and more as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheyenne Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here today. Just a reminder if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do so.

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because we enjoy each other's company so much, even when one of the parties decides in a very drunken condition to prank the other, as you did last week. For those that didn't listen to last Thursday show, I would like you to just quickly describe what you did and what you told everybody at the end of Thursday show. You can go back and listen to it because we got into it in great detail, but you were a little bit concerned about telling me something on Thursday. What was it?

Well, on Tuesday night, we were at a bar and deston called McGuire, It's a very cool, offbeat kind of place. And I was pounded down the beers, and I was on my way to a place where, you know, you do things, and you wake up the next morning and you say, well, maybe that wasn't such a good idea. But it seemed like a good idea at the time, and they decorated the whole walls, ceilings everywhere with dollar bills, thousands and thousands of dollar bills with people writing stuff on them. So I thought it would be a good idea to write on a dollar bill and post your phone number up there on the wall. And I did it in such an obscure hidden place that I convinced, I said to myself,

well, I'll accomplish what I want to do, but there won't be any damage, you know? Yeah. I mean, no one's going to see it. Right. no one's going to notice it where it was. So that's what I did. Yeah, look, the reason for Tommy thinking of me in a drunken state and thinking of a way to prank me, well, that's a whole other show.

But it was harmless enough, and you weren't legitimately concerned. You know me well enough to know that I wasn't actually going to be angry with you, but more just curious as to why you did it. but I didn't think that there would be any harm in you doing it. Right. No fallout, right? But this is the God's honest truth, and Tommy knows this, because I sent him screenshots of the calls that I was getting.

First of all, my phone number on the dollar bill, because Tommy went back and got the dollar bill and took a picture of it and sent it to me. It was not my cell phone written in small little letters. It was with a black marker and in big, bold letters that pretty much covered from one end of the dollar bill to the other. Now, what happened on late Thursday afternoon or starting early to mid-afternoon is I started to get these calls.

And remember, I told you that the day before I had gotten a bunch of calls, but I didn't really, you know, they just seemed to have the wrong number. Well, the next day after our podcast on Thursday, that afternoon, This is no exaggeration. I swear to you, this is not an exaggeration. For about a five-hour period, starting roughly 2.30, 3 o'clock in the afternoon and ending at 7.30 or 8 o'clock at night, I was getting roughly between 50 and 60, maybe more than that, calls an hour from all over the country. Oh my God. Okay?

I was getting calls from everywhere. All of them were all of the country. They were real cell phones with real people on the other end. Because I answered after they came flooding in, and usually when you don't recognize a number, you don't pick it up, right? I started to pick up the calls, and they said, I'm looking for Debbie Plimann or Giamen or something like that. I go, you have the wrong number.

Okay, thanks. Then the second time, hey, I'm looking for. for Debbie. Sorry, you have the wrong number. Well, Debbie sent me an email about my loan with First Trust or some bank. And I'm concerned about it. And that's why I was calling. And I said, well, somebody used my phone number. This is not, you know, anybody named Debbie. And this isn't any bank that is holding the note on your loan. This went on. Now, I stopped answering because I realized to why everybody was calling. This went on for roughly five hours. I mean, I'm just looking at, you know, all the calls, you know, Chicago, Portsmouth, Virginia, Culpepper, Blue Island, Florida,

Orlando, Florida, Burbank, California, Davenport, Iowa. It just, one after another. And I, I sent Tommy a text. I'm like, you really got me. And I, and you're like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'll see if I can go find the dollar bill and take it down. and I said, well, what's the point now? It's already done. I mean, leave it up there. The damage is done. Now, this could have been total coincidence. It could have been. I'm not, you know, I didn't go sleuthing this thing to figure out where they, you know, but somebody got this number, use this number as some sort of scam, I guess. I don't know. I didn't really spend a lot of time trying to figure out what was going on. But somebody used my number as part of, you know, a scam. Now, I don't know by them calling this number, maybe there was a way where if they responded by email, they had a chance to get caught in a scam. But if they called the number, they didn't, I don't know.

But I swear to you, here's the other thing, too. Maybe somebody can help me with this. I don't know how to stop that. You know, how do you stop all those calls from coming in? I mean, you can turn your phone off. You can, I'm sure, eliminate phone calls from, you know, numbers that aren't in your contact list maybe. I don't know. Well, you can have a partner who's not an asshole who advertises your number.

That's one way to stop it. Well, I mean, but things like this have happened before to everybody. You've gotten calls from people asking for somebody. Then they said, no. the number is the number that I called, and you're like, yeah, but that's not me. I mean, those things happen to people, but I mean, my God, Pittsburgh, Mount Clemens, Michigan, Amherst, Virginia, Atlanta, northeast Georgia. It was just one after another, and it finally started to die down in the evening because basically I took my phone. and other things were coming through.

Like by the time, like I would check my phone and there would be like eight text messages that I missed because they didn't really pop up on the screen because the phone just kept ringing. And I didn't turn it off. I turned the ringer off, which the ringer's off usually for me anyway. But I just moved the phone away and then they started to slow down and then eventually it stopped. And I said to you, I said, you don't have to go back and get it. If that was where these calls are coming from, the damage is already done, and it'll probably end shortly. And it did.

There were a few calls that trickled in overnight. There were a few calls the next day. But that is it. It's over now. I can't, let me just see if I've gotten any calls in the last day from, well, there was a Utica, Michigan yesterday, a Miami, Florida yesterday. I did have a very, look, it was a way to have a conversation with a few people. I had a lovely conversation with a woman named Emma from Davenport, Iowa. And I will tell you, this isn't meant to be patting myself on the back because I really don't care about this thing.

But the reason the conversation became a conversation is she loved my voice. She said, you have a great voice. And I said, oh, well, thank you very much. She said, you should be on radio. And I said, oh, that's interesting. I said, never really thought about that as a career. But, well, what do you do? And then I was like, well, you know, who's, I said, well, who's asking?

And she said, oh, I'm sorry, I'm Emma, whatever. And I said, do you, because the number came up as Davenport, Iowa. I said, do you live in the Quad Cities? And I bet you didn't know that. See, this is where having done all that traveling over all of those years. years, you know, in the 90s and in the 2000s for work, I'm very familiar with like, you know, areas of the country that most people are not. Yes.

I spent, I spent not a lot of time, but I spent some time in Moline, Illinois. Moline, Illinois is part of the Quad Cities market, which includes Davenport and Bettendorf, Iowa and Moline in Rock Island, Illinois. And it is obviously separated those two states by the Mississippi River. And there's this incredible old German hotel in Davenport where we used to stay when we went to Moline. It was kind of ugly, but it was like the place to stay. And trust me, like, it's one of those areas of the country you'd rather be from than actually

live in. but she couldn't have been nicer and we had a nice 10 to 12 minute conversation about things and she said well how do you think this happened and I said well I don't know how it happened but you're not the first person to call and you can you can hear is the phone's clicking I'm continuing to get calls and I said so how are things in Davenport is it cold yeah it's pretty cold and and you know I said I you know I used to work with a supermarket chain in that area and she said oh great and I said I know that you guys have had major flooding issues You know, in the Quad Cities. Oh, yeah, we've had a lot. That's been one of the big issues every the year. I mean, so it was. So you made a friend. I made a friend, Emma from Davenport, Iowa.

It wasn't all bad. It wasn't all bad. It was a nice conversation, and she couldn't have been nicer. I guess I could have gained a couple of podcast listeners. I could have said, you know, tune in to this podcast. I'm going to talk about this call that you just made to me. I mean, we could have had some, you know, I don't know, it was 50 times five hours. It was every bit of 250 calls that came in.

I mean, it was unbelievable. But thanks, man. I really appreciate you doing that. Why don't you go get rocked again tonight and see what else you can come up with? See what kind of shenanigans you can get into tonight. Just don't use my number. I did go back and literally let get the dollar bill. I asked to go back.

I went to the restaurant and I asked the front go back to our booth, and I had to use a flashlight to find the dollar bill, okay, on my phone. But I found it, and I took it home with me. You had to use a flashlight why it was a dark area of the bar? Oh, it was down almost under the table. I told you, I had put it in a place where it would be difficult to see. I mean, look, it may not have. have been that. It's very possible. It's a hell of a coincidence. Yeah. I mean, it literally started

within an hour or two hours after we were done that day with the podcast, which was obviously strange. It's funny because when I tweeted out the show that day, I said, I said something like, you know, go to the last segment to listen to how Tommy, you know, prank to me. It's, it was really funny. Ha, ha. Here comes another call from Burbank California. Oh, here it was. I started getting 75 calls an hour from all over the country this afternoon. Here comes another one right now from Burbank, California.

This is fun. Anyway, that was really funny, Tommy. You know, the only thing I wish... Well, I'm going to have to top that somehow. No, no, no, no. It's my turn. I owe you. Just when you least expect it.

Did you watch the college football national championship game last night? Yes, I did. You did? I watched the whole thing. And what did you think? Well, I mean, I thought Alabama was going to win, and I thought they were going to win the way Georgia won in the fourth quarter. I don't know that much about, you know, Georgia.

I knew they had a great defense from what people told me. but I just thought Alabama had that championship gene that, you know, emerges in the fourth quarter of games. And if it's a close game going into the fourth quarter, Alabama's going to find a way to break away. And just the opposite happened. Yeah, Tim Murray was on with me yesterday. Tim lectured me, appropriately so, because my smell test was a bit of an inspiration. for people like Tim Murray. You know, Tim was a big college sports fan, a big gambler,

and he would tune in every week, and then when we work together, we would talk about it all the time. And Tim is now hosting a big-time show on the VISA Network with Sean King, former NFL quarterback, where they talk about gambling. And Tim has kind of adopted my contrarian philosophy when it comes to betting.

And he said, well, you're obviously, you obviously gave Georgia out on the smell test, and I said, I actually didn't. I gave a lien to Georgia. I kind of liked them, but I didn't give it out. And he proceeded to lecture me about how this was the definition of the smell test, that Alabama had crushed Georgia in the SEC championship game, 41 to 24. Alabama was the top seed, and yet they were a three-point underdog. And Tim referred to it as the as a neighbor game, meaning this is the kind of game where your neighbor comes over and says, is it true that Alabama's an underdog? That can't be possible. I'm going to bet the game tonight. And sure enough, like my good friend Kenny, who you know, Kenny, the Cowboys fan,

who's family, you know, asked him not to watch the Cowboys game one year on Thanksgiving in exchange for a trip to Disney World. He texted me right before the game last night. Vegas has Georgia favored? How is that possible? Question mark. And so with that, I really was like, God damn, why did I not give Georgia out?

Well, I explained to Tim that the line was two and a half for much of the last week. and, you know, they were really in many ways trying to incent a little bit more Georgia action. If the line had been at three or three and a half, I would have really liked Georgia. Well, it did go to three. And actually, in some cases,

I was told it went to three and a half. But I started to let the thing that never works in gambling enter into the conversation. And that is analysis. Analysis doesn't work in gambling. By the way, Nothing works in gambling. But I have this recent theory because I've gotten burned by it a lot this year. And that is, if you aren't 100% sure who's got the better quarterback. And Alabama clearly has the better quarterback.

So it didn't cause me to bet Alabama. I would have never bet Alabama. That would have gone against everything that I've always been about as a gambler. But I just stayed off the game. I shouldn't say I stayed off it. I did have a small wager on Georgia Lang 3. But to be honest with you, I didn't feel great about it. And I had another conversation with somebody late in the afternoon by text that said, there's some sharp money coming in on Bama, this line's going to drop. It never did.

It never did. So I pretty much, for all intents and purposes, based on my normal bet size. I just stayed off the game. But Tim was right. Timmy, you were right. If you're listening to this podcast, not only were you right about this, I didn't give Georgia out in the semi-final game against Michigan when they were so right. I hate favorites in the smell test, as many of you know, especially big favorites, but they were right there too. So I've been a little bit off with the smell test this year. I will admit that we still have NFL playoff games and I can still get it all back.

I'm two games below 500 in a year in which. which underdogs did pretty well. So this was a kind of a bad year in that I picked some of the wrong, you know, public, anti-public sides. Too many of them. So no, there was a lot of opportunity for the smell test to be successful and you didn't take full advantage of it. Well, Scott Van Pelt, who by the way, just quickly as an aside, because many of you have tweeted me, he is fine.

He had an episode yesterday with, with his heart. It was, it's an episode SVT, which a lot of people have, and he did go to the hospital, and he did miss his show last night. A lot of you, I guess he tweeted something out. A lot of you reached out to me, he is doing fine. He was home. We were talking last night during the game, and he is going to be fine. I mean, he's going to go see a cardiologist, get a whole workup, but they're pretty sure, you know, it's essentially in a regular, you know, a heartbeat rhythm. got a little off kilter. It scared the shit out of them, which it would anybody. But there's lots of things you can do for that, including medication, including an ablation. There's

lots of different things. I mean, millions and millions of people have this. So, you know, knock on what he's going to be fine. Yeah, there was a little bit of a fib and some of those other things. But I have a little bit of a fib. Yeah, my father has it too. So he's a very minor. I mean, I've never even had a symptom, but it just came up. in an EKG. Oh, it did? Okay. Let me wish him well, too. Yeah, yeah, he's totally fine.

He was like, he said to me, he said at some point, it's like, you know, the doctor was just talking sports with me, and I could tell that it wasn't, you know, a big deal. And they sent him home, and, you know, he was in and out. And he's just got to go get probably a big, you know, cardiology workup. Anyway, for those that did reach out, he's doing fine, and he will be fine. says Dr. Wait a second. Wait a second.

You said that the doctor was talking sports to him. I wanted to ask you something. Yeah. How many times when you go to a doctor? Well, you know your doctors. But even if it's a new doctor and they recognize you, first, do they recognize you? And if they do, how much do they want to talk sports?

I mean, look, whenever the bottom line is, as you and I both know, and anybody that does this, if it's a guy and he's a sports fan and he lives in this market, there's a decent chance that, you know, they recognize the voice or the name. And so that happens a lot. Obviously, if the guy's not a sports fan or if it's a female and they're not a sports fan, never. You know, there are lots of places we go, never. And there are very few places where we go where it's, you know, like it's a given.

But for whatever reason when you ask that, I seem to think like almost every doctor that I go to, they're sports fans. And they're familiar with us or, you know, people that we've worked with before. Why? Does it happen to you all the time? Oh, it happens to me. Like my heart doctor, I mean, we'll stay. then, you know, a couple minutes talking about my heart and 15 minutes talking to me about sports. He's a big fan at a show and the podcast.

My heart doctor even gave me his personal phone number as a result of this. And what I was getting to is sometimes I would go with my wife to her doctor visits, and she kind of stopped me from doing that because so many times when we go in, the doctor would say, you're Tom Leverro and spend the next 10 minutes talking to me about sports. Yeah. I mean, the truth is it doesn't happen nearly as much as probably some people might think. Because radio people are anonymous. I mean, even though you and I have both done a lot of TV, we're not regulars on TV.

Let me just tell you, like, what happens to Scott when he goes out in public, like, he is truly, I mean, it's, I mean, we've all gotten used to it. All of his friends have gotten used to it over the years, and it's been many, many, many years. Well, you've seen when he goes to, when he's at a Maryland game, what it's like. He's a rock star. I mean, it's unbelievable. But, like, even if we go to grab a bite to eat somewhere, you know, it's constant. But anyway, how did we get sidetracked? Oh, what I was going to say going back to why I brought up Scott's name is Scott and I,

you know, Scott has this winner's segment, you know, that he's been doing for years on his show, which basically it's the same thing as the smell test. You know, the two of us have been gambling together for 30 plus years of our lives. And we both kind of came along with other friends of ours, came to the conclusion many, many years ago, we're not going to win playing the obvious games. The obvious games are the wrong games. You've got to have the stones to go against the obvious games. So we've been doing it. And his winner's segment many times mirrors exactly the smell test. Like every week we'll call and he'll say, who did you give out? And I say, you know, he's like, yep, check, check, check.

For some reason this year, he's like, yeah, I didn't give them out. I'm like, oh, well, who did you give out? He goes to them. I go, yeah, I didn't give them out either. And he did very well this year. And I'm just, you know, hovering around 500. I think he's like 15 units above 500 or something like that for the year, which is a really good year. And then Stanford, Steve, who does picks on his show too. And Steve comes on our show on the podcast every once in a while. Steve has his own more analytical approach using true analysis, although he's done really well over the years as well.

although he gave out Bama last night. I would have never given out Bama. I lean Georgia. I'm just upset that I didn't give out Georgia because Tim was 100% right. It was a pick that totally, totally fit. I'm going to tell you right now, looking ahead to this weekend's NFL games, there aren't a lot of heavily public bet teams with the exception of one right now, and that is a lot of people are betting Tampa Bay.

that line has come down a little bit from nine and a half to eight and a half over the eagles. Now the line isn't like short. It's kind of where I thought it would be. But the fact that the public's on Tampa and the line's coming down, which is an indication of some short money on Philadelphia, it wouldn't surprise me if Philadelphia is one of my smell test picks this weekend. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if Dallas ends up being a smell test pick because a lot of people, The 49ers right now are kind of that, you know, chic underdog pick this weekend. You know, after that, you know, I think people really feel the 49ers are really good. And by the way, I do two.

And they're getting three at Dallas. I would expect that the 49ers are the public play in terms of outright upset winners of the entire weekend. They're also the shortest underdard. They're only a three-point underdog. So that means I might like Dallas by the time we get to game time on Sunday. Back to the game last night because we didn't really talk about the game. You did. I had an issue last night, and the issue was I had stayed up till all hours of the night,

the night before, to watch, as I described yesterday, and as Tim and I talked about yesterday, I think one of the true all-time memorable NFL regular season games. It's not exaggeration. It really is. And I loved the conversation about it yesterday all day long. Tim and I talked about it. So many of you guys tweeted different things.

And I'm going to read something here from somebody here momentarily. Zabe called me up. I wanted Zab's podcast last night because, you know, he was fascinated with all the stuff that happened. It was amazing how many people. you know, spoke to certain things that I thought were just dead wrong. But I do want to read this one. So anyway, so we were up, you know, late watching the game Sunday night.

And then last night, you know, as Tim said yesterday, and he was right, it's like, oh, by the way, the national championship game is tonight. You know, you had all the NFL week 17 stuff. Then you had all the firings of the coaches. And it's like, it's a bad night for that game. I don't know what the TV ratings are yet, but it's a bad night for that game. It really is. They have to figure out a way to do it so that it's not covered up by the NFL's final week,

the NFL Black Monday, you know, as it's referred to. So anyway, the game last night, my point is, is I was kind of dozing in and out during the first half, and then I made coffee at halftime, which then meant I didn't go to bed until 2 a. But my God, these two teams all year long, Georgia specifically, not BAM as much, the speed of Georgia's defense all season long has been so incredible to watch. You know, some people believe this might be the greatest defensive college team of all time. I think that their performance in the SEC title game just completely. eliminates that as a possibility. They gave up 41 points to Bama in the SEC title game and, you know, 440 yards. I mean, I'm sorry, but that performance knocked the greatest defense in the history of college football off the table. But they have so many NFL players on that defense. And it's so fast. And I think one of the things you see when you see the elite teams, especially,

out of the SEC. You know, the Bamas, the Georgia's, the LSUs, you know, in recent years, and I would throw Clemson into that mix, too, out of the ACC in recent years, is the big difference what separates these teams from the rest of college football and some good college football teams is the speed on defense. It's unbelievable how fast Georgia is in their front seven. And you see it on any play that sort of runs wide. You know, whether it's a sweep or whether it's a bubble screen. It's like you got two to three guys running from one side of the field to the other, and they're there in a flash.

And they're hitting in the game. Georgia was the better team. Stetson Bennett's a great story. Obviously, Bama came into the game, kind of injured, and then they lost James and Williams, which, God, I don't know what that injury is. But this guy's such a star and, you know, is a lock to be a first-round pit. and so I hope it's not a serious knee injury, but I know they feared NACL.

Stetson Bennett was, to me, not a very good quarterback when I watched him during the year, but after that turnover late in the game that gave Bama the lead 18 to 13, he was great. He was phenomenal, and then they started running the ball, and then they capped it off with the interception return, and Georgia wins the national championship.

And Tommy, Georgia's one of those, fan bases. They've waited 41 years for this. And you could just sense if you were watching it until the end with the way Fowler and Herb Street and others were talking about it, the shots of the fans, the tears. It was such an emotional night for a program that's been great, but has never been good enough, like has always failed in the big spot. They've come up short. They've been the bridesmaid so many times, certainly a few years ago. And to get over that hump, it's the sweetest feeling in the world as a sports fan when you've invested so much time into a team and you've been through all of their highs, but all of the big lows and disappointments to finally get there.

I felt that way when Maryland won the national championship in 2002. And I know Georgia had a National Championship with Herschel Walker and Vince Dooley 41 years ago. But man, it was kind of cool to see that fan base celebrating. It was. It was a great night for college football. What's the quarterback's name for Georgia? Stetson Bennett. Stetson?

Yeah, Stetson Bennett. I mean, that's a remarkable story because early in the game, he was being trashed on social media, you know, so much. came through with some big throws. It was a great night. It was, it wasn't necessarily a great game. No, not in the first half. It was a great night.

Yeah, boring first half, but exciting fourth quarter. Nine to six. Yeah, exciting fourth quarter in Georgia's your national championship team. And per usual, you know, at the end of these college football and college basketball seasons, you get the all-too-ear-year, top 25 for the following year. and our friend Mark Schlebeau, who's written for ESPN and comes on the radio show in particular all the time. Alabama 1, Ohio State, Georgia, 3. Ohio State 2, Georgia 3. That's your top 3 next year. It's rinse and repeat with these powerhouses in college football. There have just, there's been some separation, you know,

and I know Michigan beat Ohio State, and I know Clemson for the first time had kind of a stepback year, but for the most part, year in and year out, you're going to see a mix of Alabama, Georgia, Ohio State, Clemson, you know, etc. And what we really need is we need an extension, an expansion of the playoff field to 8 or 12, which they still have not voted through yet. Hopefully we'll get that. It looks now like, you know, maybe not until 2026.

But anyway. Hey, I wanted to mention one thing real quickly before we get to some Washington football team talk in your column. Yesterday, Tommy, I don't know what's going on with me these days. Yesterday at the end of the show, I celebrated. I didn't celebrate. I commemorated, I guess, would be the better word, the 35-year anniversary of one of the famous plays in Washington Redskins history, the Daryl Green punt return against the Bears in the playoffs at Soldier Field. When Gibbs put him back there and he made that leap over a player and tore rib cartilage

and was holding on to his ribs as he scored for the go-ahead score. Washington won that game, went on eventually to win the Super Bowl that year, beating Denver. So I played the highlight from Summerall and Madden. and I do this every year this time of year. I'll look for like, you know, okay, this has got to be the celebration. This has got to be like the 30 year, 20 year, 25 year, 35 year anniversary of some big skins playoff game because it's January and had so many of them.

There was one problem with the remembering of this great play, the Daryl Green punt return, is that it actually didn't happen 35 years ago. It happened 34 years ago. No, I should, I could have said 34. It was the 87 season, but it happened in 88. Exactly. Exactly. It happened in January of 88.

I don't know. I'm going crazy. But that leads me to this. Exactly 35 years ago. This is actually 35 years ago today on January 11th, 1986. the New York Giants beat the Washington Redskins in the NFC championship game in East Rutherford in the Meadowlands, 17-0-0 on a wild and windy day, which still when you go back and you watch the highlights or you watch the game because a lot of that game's available on YouTube, it's amazing. The Gale Force wins that were going on that day. You just couldn't really throw the football.

On that particular day, because I pulled up the box score, Phil Sims in a 17-0-0-shutout went over Washington in the NFC title game. For the Giants, by the way, first visit to the Super Bowl, and they ended up beating Denver in the Super Bowl that year. By the way, Dan Reeves coach Denver that year, Dan Reeves just passed away a couple of weeks ago. Phil Sims in that game was 7 of 14 for 90 yards. I mean, how the games changed. Now, it was windy.

It's kind of similar to the Mac Jones game from this year. Jay Schrader, though, in, you know, losing the game almost the entire way, was 20 of 50 for only 195 yards. He was only 20 of 50. The Giants were so good defensively that year. Joe Morris had a big day. And Lawrence Taylor was, you know, of course, his dominant self. Seven for 14, 90-some yards. That's a Jake Fromm line there.

God. I don't think I've ever seen a team so obviously disinterested in, you know, performing. And somehow Joe Judge, Tommy, I played this on the show today. You'll know this. And I'll have Aaron slip this in here in post-production of the show today. But you remember the episode of The Office called The Surplus? You know, where Michael... Oh, yeah.

Yeah, where Michael finds out he's got a surplus, and should they buy new chairs or a new copier? It's right. The debate is the new copier, which Pam, which Oscar and his group really are pushing, and then Pam wants the new chairs. But at the beginning of that show, there's the scene with Oscar and Michael

where Oscar's trying to explain to him through his spreadsheet what a surplus is. and Michael first says, so explain it to me like I'm an eight-year-old. And then he goes through the lemonade stand, you know, example. And then he gets done. And he says, and then here on the X-axis, and Michael goes, yep, yep, the X-Axas.

And then Michael says afterwards, he goes, okay, now explain it to me like I'm a five-year-old. Well, explain to me like I'm a five-year-old, how Joe Judge is still the coach of the New York Giants, and Brian Flores is not in Miami. I can't believe that the Maras actually believe that Joe Judge is the answer. I mean, God bless them. It's a great thing for the rest of the NFC East,

but I'm not so sure I have ever seen a team over the last month of the season, more disorganized, more poorly coached, more checked out on their head coach, with the head coach exclaiming in a rant after a blowout loss in Chicago how much his team is behind him and how much the clown show organization they're about to play is really, really, you know, a joke. I mean, it's like a Saturday night live football character, football coach. Yeah. It really is. It's just remarkable.

I mean, I look, I mean, I'm not a student of football, but even I turned to somebody I was watching the game with Sunday when Kenny Galladay short-armed that pass. The best pass Jake Fromm threw the whole game. And I said, boy, if there was a guy not interested in catching that ball, that was him. It was incredible. I mean, he had zero interest. There was a story that did come out yesterday that the players do not

want Joe Judge back. But the Maras do, and that's just going to benefit the rest of the division, because honestly, he is horrendous and clearly, like, out of touch from reality. And I know, like, I had a couple of giant fans reach out to me. Sheehan, we can't keep firing coaches every two years. That's the logic, supposedly, at the Maris are undertaking. They don't want to look bad. by rinse repeat cycle, you know, again and again and again. But sticking by a bad decision is worse.

Yeah, like this is a cut-bait situation despite the fact that you just threw the line in, because this guy is a dope of the highest order. And look, I'm much more critical and emotional about this because of the way he handled himself last week and the way, you know, he took a shot at an organization that right now, in terms of stability, as unstable as Washington is right now, the giants really have major issues. And if they keep this idiot, it's going to continue because, you know, I don't know, look, they had a lot of injuries. They were number, after Baltimore, I think they were number two in the league in man games lost. to injury. Washington, if you're curious,

who's right in the middle of the pack. But they're horrendous, and he's horrendous. Yeah. And they're looking to hire a new general manager now. So a new general manager, talk about screwed up. They're going to hire a new general manager who's going to inherit this guy as his coach. I mean, it would be interesting if they go out and try to hire a new general manager, and the general manager says, I'm not taking the job unless this guy. guy's gone. I mean, this guy is out there. I mean, I can't, I can give him all the players in

the world, but it's not going to work with this guy. I don't know. We'll see. The game was, but if you're a Washington fan, you want him there forever. Yeah. And if you're a Washington fan and you're on Tommy's side, you had to feel really good about the win over the Giants on Sunday because it was a major test of their culture. More on that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight-year-old? All right. Well, this is the overall budget for this fiscal year along the X-axis.

Yes. There's the X-axis. You can see clearly on this page that we have a surplus of $4,300. Okay. We have to spend that by the end of the day or it will be deducted from next. your's budget. Why don't you explain this to me like I'm five? This segment of the podcast is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.com, mybooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll match your first deposit, dollar for dollar,

all the way up to a thousand bucks. Free money for the NFL playoffs. They got all the prop bets you need, all of the game bets you need, totals, et cetera. It's safe, fair point spreads, fair totals. Fair pricing. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to a thousand bucks. Before we get to your thoughts about the big win Sunday in New York and your column as well, did you see what Chase Young or did you hear what Chase Young said yesterday as part of the player exit interviews with a lot of the people on the beat about OTAs? as I understood it, generally

to synopsize it, you know, he said when asked about committing to attending OTAs next year, he said basically we'll see, right? Yeah, he said, we're still talking about it, figuring everything

out, so I'm not sure right now. That was an answer to John Kimes' question about his plans for OTAs in the off-season. Look, first of all, he's coming off an ACL injury. I don't know if he's going to even be ready for training camp in terms of actual work or not. That's still to be determined.

So doubtful that he'll be able to run around in OTAs. It doesn't mean that he shouldn't go to OTAs as a team captain. Doesn't mean that Ron Rivera and Jack Del Rio won't be expecting him to show up at OTAs and hoping that he will be there. They hoped he was going to be there last year and they were disappointed that he wasn't there. And he pretty much. Yeah. But now Rivera has pretty much made it public.

that he expects Chayshung to be there. There's no reading between the lines anymore. No. So Chayshung didn't give an answer that was very convincing about him showing up for OTAs. I...

I would be shocked if he's not there. I would be too. I also wish on some level that at this point, somebody would have gotten through to him or maybe it would have just gotten through to him over the last few months that the answer is, yeah, I'll be at OTAs.

They're voluntary. I'll be at OTAs. Or the off-season is going to be very important. I'm working hard to get my knee back into shape and I'm going to be at everything in this off-season. We went 7 and 10 this year. That was unacceptable. We got a lot of work to do here in this off-season. Instead, he said, yeah, we're still talking about it, figuring everything out for it, so I'm not sure right now.

Because he's Chase Young, Kevin. He's Chase Young, baby. He's not just some average guy on the field from average NFL player. I mean, look at all he's accomplished in the league. He's Chase Young. One sack in eight games. All right, so... And you know what happened, though?

But it's interesting, you bring Chase Young up because after that great Sunday night game between the Chargers and the Raiders, where Justin Herbert basically, you know, capitalized on what, four or five, fourth and long plays to drive his team down the field to tie it. I posted on Twitter after the game, I said, so how's that Justin Herbert Chase Young draft debate going? Well, I mean, yeah. And basically, the debate we had, and I followed up by making this clear, was not who should have been drafted there. The debate was if you could go back after a year and change it and change it. Would you change it? Would you switch that? That was the debate.

Well, it wasn't debate in the moment of who you would draft. It was the date of looking back. And I was stunned at how many stalwart, starry. chase young people out there. After that game we just saw and just said, nope. I'm sticking with my guy, Chase you.

No chance. No chance at anybody that actually believes that now. There's no way. It was remarkable the amount of people that kept. I'm proud of it. Snap. And not one person could believe that right now. Not one.

I don't see how. I don't see how. That's why I put it out there. I mean, I said, come on. What we just saw, I mean, I didn't need that to have convinced me before, but after what we just saw, a quarterback like that? If anybody out there, look, again, let me just, we've done this before. You know, we did this last year after Justin Herbert's rookie season.

Let's just make this really clear. We're not talking about how we felt in the moment. We're not playing revisionist history here by saying there was a big time debate. Remember, I kind of like Justin Herbert. Nobody I know was saying pick Justin Herbert at number two over Chase Young. The conversation, the debate was over Tua or Chase Young for Washington. But remember, you know, at that point, even for those of you that were convinced that Dwayne wasn't going to be the answer, you still hadn't seen enough of Dwayne, you know, at that point.

But I do remember. one friend of mine in particular, actually, who did say, you know, Haskins is not the guy. This is the highest you're ever going to pick more likely than not, or it will be for a while. You've got to take Tua. You know, I had one friend that was 100 percent like you've got to take Tua or Burrow, whoever's there too. You can't take a defensive player. It's a quarterback league and you may never get this chance again. You know what, with the number two overall selection.

Some people, you know, perhaps felt that way. It's not about how we felt then. It's about playing the hypothetical. If you could go back today and redo the 2020 draft and you're Washington and you're on the clock at number two after Cincinnati selected Joe Burrow, if you don't select Justin Herbert in this hypothetical, you need your head examined. Like there's no debate here at this point. Like it's not even close. I don't believe that somebody actually responded to you saying,

nope, I would draft Chase Young again. I don't believe you. I think you're making that up. No, I'm not. I'm not making it up. I'm telling you. That person is an idiot. Seriously.

Well, there are more than one person. You know, that basically came down on that. Justin Herbert, you know, even if Justin Herbert isn't going to be a top five elite Aaron Rogers, you know, Patrick Mahomes type for the rest of his career. The floor is so high right now, like the worst you're going to get out of Justin Herbert, assuming he stays healthy, is a guy that's like, you know, consistently in the top 10, consistently, you know, right around 10 or higher, if not top 3. Still rock with my guy Chase, no regrets here.

Well, that person's really limited because there's nobody in their right mind that if you could go back and redraft 2020 at number two with Joe Burrough gone, who wouldn't take Justin Herbert. This is a quarterback league. Justin Herbert, by the way, at this point through two years, is a much better player at his position than Chase Young's been at his. So if you're just saying, well, I don't really believe in that quarterback thing. You know, I think defensive pass rusher is just as important. Okay, well, who's the better player at their respective position? Well, the answer is obvious. It's Justin Herbert.

Now, you can say, well, Chase Young got injured and missed half of his second year. He did, but he had one sack in the first half of the year and wasn't a very good player. Now, I'm still a believer in Chase Young. I'm still a believer in the talent. I still think that he, you know, has a chance to be a special player. I'm really hoping that it happens because I really wanted them to select Chase Young. at number two. But there's no way that I wouldn't take Herbert upon further review.

Herbert's spectacular. Somebody, I guess it was Murray yesterday on the podcast, you know, said, or maybe it was Zabe last night. My conversation was Zave, that he just plays a lot like John Elway did. And Elway's probably in the top three or four of my all-time favorite players. And Herbert is special. He is going to be, you know, a guy. guy that's always going to be considered among, you know, worst case, the top 10 quarterbacks

in the league. And best case, the best quarterback, or one of the two or three best quarterbacks in the league. That's kind of the way we're going to view him. And by the way, Tommy, I didn't like him that much coming out of Oregon. All of the talk about his attitude and how he wasn't much of a leader. And, you know, I remember certain games that were big games where he didn't play well. but a lot of people have reminded many of us after the fact that Oregon, his senior year, had lost a lot of the key playmakers that they had had had the year before, and that that's part of why maybe his senior year wasn't as impressive. I mean, I think statistically it may have been, but the year before,

I think there were bigger moments for him. But anyway, yeah, Herbert. So, question for you. you. How good do you feel that this big game on Sunday went Washington's way and that they didn't take a major or neutral, that they're not in a neutral position, but that they took a big step forward in terms of their culture beating the Giants on Sunday in that, and that, you know, really important season finale game. Okay. Well, again, you know, as you tend to twist things about this, it was never what they accomplished by winning.

It was what they could lose by losing. I mean, the two are not equal. Winning that game, especially against such a pathetic opponent that had no interest in playing in the game means nothing.

Nothing. Losing to that team, you're going to tell me losing that game to that team would not have meant something. Well, do you remember what I told you on Thursday? that I didn't think. I don't remember what.

I know you didn't. But you certainly remembered my phone number, didn't you? I said to you, and you kind of, you kind of said, oh, really? And I said, I don't think if they try to lose this game, they could lose this game. That's how bad the giants are. And Washington. You were right. You were 100% right.

But, you know, the truth is Washington did come out to try to win the game. game. I mean, Taylor Heineke wasn't very good. And there were aspects of the team, but they really ran the ball well. And again, I mean, they were playing a team that had zero interest in winning the game. So I don't know how you measure much from it. But, you know, you and Joe Thaisman, Thysman was on with me during the radio show this morning. And he said it was really nice to get the momentum off of that win going into next year. I think that's overrated. I think it would have been really worse who have suffered the loss going into next year. A loss in that game to that team.

I don't think it mattered at all, as I told you. I don't think if they had lost that game, it wouldn't have meant one thing in terms of the next season. I don't think. So, your column really, really was very complimentary of Taylor Heineke. Do you want to explain? Well, I mean. I'm sure this is going to come out in our conversation in the next couple of minutes,

but it was complimentary with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek. Okay. Let's just make that clear, but people tend to hear what they want to hear. I pointed out that he had one of the best seasons, the Washington football quarterback has had this century. Basically, I did an inventory of the season to really kind of assess what the team had accomplished and where they are. and I pointed out that only two other quarterbacks since the year 2000

have thrown more touchdown passes in a season than Taylor Heineke's did this year when he threw 20. And that was Kirk Cousins when he threw 29, 25, and 27 touchdowns from 2015 and 2017. And then Mark Brunel was through 23 touchdowns in 2005. Other than that, no one has thrown more touchdowns. touchdowns and Heineke, Jason Campbell through 20 in 2009, and of course, Griffin through 20 in 2012. Right.

But that's the list. Yeah. That's the list this century right there. He's on it. So it's here, yet here we are talking about replacing one of the most productive scoring machines we've seen in a Washington uniform in the last 22 years. But I point out, which they should do, of course. They should replace them. but it just speaks to, I mean, the perspective as to how bad quarterback play has been here in a different way.

So that was how I started the column. And I also talked about Ron Rivera's coaching record, seven wins for a second straight season, which means that in Ron Rivera's tenure here, the only coach who has performed as poorly in this century is Jim Zorn. Not me, Jim Zorn, Steve Spurrier. In the two seasons? Yes, because at least Steve Spurrier won seven games his first year there. Now, the second year, he won five.

Five and eleven, not too good. They were worse. Every coach from Norve to Marty to Gibbs to Zorn, to Zorn. to Jake Rudin had one season where they won more than seven games. I mean, it's hard to have seven wins

back to back. I think it is. And I just think that, you know, we keep talking about, I mean, I think as time goes on, and, you know, I mean, Rivera knows it. He knows that next year he's going to be judged a lot more harsher,

But I just don't think he's the coach. I don't think he's the coach that you need. I don't think he's a very good coach. And I guess eight out of 11 losing seasons in his career speaks to that. Do you think they're capable of getting a better coach? Unless they get lucky and get some hot shot young guy that has no record and hit the lottery on a young untested guy. A guy with a resume is not coming here, who's a good coach.

No. Look, I think this is Washington's level. You know, seven wins, eight wins, nine wins. That's it. So I just want to push back a little bit, not that this is the first time I'm doing it on the Ron Rivera thing. I know that you and many like to say, and it is accurate, that in his 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years of coaching. It's actually 11, but he didn't finish 2019. But in his 10 years of coaching, he only has three winning seasons.

And he's got seven seasons where he had a losing record. And he's got three seasons where he had a winning record. What's important, though? Like, you know, in his 10 seasons, he's also gone to the playoffs five times. I understand two of those times were, you know, very unique in that his team ended up with a losing record, 7, 8, and 1 in 2014 with Carolina, and they won the division. And 7 and 9 last year in the horrendous NFC East and they won the division. but still to the playoffs five times in 10 seasons as a head coach.

And by the way, his overall aggregate record as a head coach in the regular season is 90, 82, and 1. So he's eight games above 500. Because, I mean, I'm not criticizing him for this. He accomplished it. He had a 15 in one season the year they went to the Super Bowl. Yeah, and he also had a 12 and 40. season. Yeah. He had an 11 and 5 season. dramatically impressive winning season. Sure. So, you know, if that hadn't been

15 and 1, but let's just say had been a 13 and 3 season, he'd still be 88, 84 in 1. He'd still have an overall winning record. You know, because let's face it, on the flip side of that, he hasn't had a season where his team's cratered either. His worst season is 6 and 10. You know, the other seasons in which which he didn't end up with a winning record, seven and nine, three times, seven, eight, and one once, and seven and ten this year. You know, so it's not like he's ever coached a terrible team either. And the first two of his seasons in Carolina, where those are two of the ten losing seasons,

were building seasons with a rookie quarterback who was drafted number one overall, and you could they were getting better. They went from 6 and 10 to 7 and 9, and then in year 3, went 12 and 4 and won the division, the first of what would become three straight division titles in the NFC South for him in 2013, 2014, and 2015. My only point is, I think we're all right in this conversation. I think, you know, you're not wrong when you say he's coached 10 full seasons and he's only got three winning seasons. And I'm not wrong either when I say, yeah, but if you look at the losing seasons, two of them came in the first two years with a rookie quarterback. Two of the other three in Carolina, or two of the other three in Carolina came when he didn't

have his starting quarterback for much of the year because he was injured. I mean, a lot of coaches are contingent on the best player on the team being healthy. And he had, when he had a healthy Cam Newton, he won, you know, he went to the playoffs four times in five seasons. and over that stretch had a 12-win season, a 15-win season, and an 11-win season, and then in another year won the division with a losing record, where they rallied late for like four wins to finish up the year to win the division, kind of like what happened last year to a certain degree. I don't think, I think all of it leads to this.

He is not an elite head coach, clearly. You may not even say he's a very good NFL coach based on the results. but I think it's okay, I do, to say that he's a good coach, he's a good guy, he's a good leader, he's well-respected, and he's about as good as this organization can do. I can't argue with most of that. I can't argue. He's limited. But he's a good guy, good reputation. Players respect him and like him. All those things are true. but, you know, this team with Rod Rivera as coach, and more importantly, with you know who is the owner, it's always going to be limited.

So basically what you have to, what you have to satisfy yourself with is middle of the road and live with it. Yeah, I just don't want you to say, I can buy most of that and then use the word limited with him. Limited is okay, but not in the way I think that your tone suggested, which is that he's never produced any results. Because that's what I get from a lot of people is that it's totally focused on, this guy's coached 10 years and has had three winning seasons. What are we talking about here? And he's now 13 and 19 in his first two years here. I don't think that does justice to the real competitive and some very good teams that he coached. By the way, when they won the division with a losing record,

they won a playoff game and were close in the divisional round against Seattle on the road. Like they had a chance. Like they weren't that far away from the NFC championship game that particular year. I just want to point that out. Okay, let me move to this because it's a good segue. Because I did this on the radio show today. as we now are able to fully look back on 2021. Was this a step forward season?

Was it a step back season? Or was it neither? Was it just equal to what 2020 was? I think it's a step back season. I think they needed to show some progress. I don't think they did that. And, you know, one of the things that he pointed out that people will do, and he certainly did, was how they were decimated by COVID this year.

You know, and they were. I mean, particularly, you know, near the end of the season. I mean, hit them hard. But I also point out the column that, you know, which is a particular Washington issue, people basically forgot, not that their chief trainer, Ryan Vermillion, who was Revere's right-hand man in Carolina and who he brought over here. I mean, everyone knows that he's under investigation by the DEA and that he was to put on administrative leave in October,

along with the assistant trainer, and they've been basically operating without him from much of the season. But last year, basically Washington was considered a model for their control of COVID issues within the organization. And Rivera gave the credit to Ryan Vermillion. He said it speaks to what Ryan Vermillion is doing as our infectious control officer in terms of trying to make sure everyone's aware

and everyone's being careful and following the protocols. Well, the guy that he gave all the credit for last year wasn't with the organization this year. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, there's this site called Man Games Lost. It's basically a site that keeps track of injuries, and they also have done that with COVID, to kind of give you a sense of which are the most injured teams, which are the teams that have been most affected by COVID. Seven teams have had more protocol, COVID protocol absences during the season than Washington.

I don't have a list of the key players, you know, that missed. Obviously, Washington had to start Gail Gilbert and, you know, Green Bay had to start Jordan Love for a game. And Minnesota had to start Sean Mannion for a game. So some of those teams that had quarterback issues were impacted. And in terms of injuries, just as an FYI, Washington square in the middle of the pack. You know, out of 32 teams basically right in the middle of the pack in terms of, you know, the most injured teams. The most injured teams were Baltimore, the Giants, and Tennessee. like they were all outliers in terms of unbelievable numbers of injuries.

By the way, not coincidentally, the least injured teams, Buffalo, Tampa, Kansas City, Philadelphia, and the Chargers, along with Jacksonville, actually. So of the six teams that were the least injured, four made the playoffs and one nearly did in the Chargers. The other team was just so bad, it didn't matter, you know, who was playing. playing for them. But, yeah. So. So that's, I mean, the column to me is basically saying, and this is no news, you know,

I just don't think that there's anything to look back on if you analyze this year and be particularly optimistic about the future. So two things. One, I think we're in a totally different space than we were last year, you know, in terms of the people that are interested in this team. Last year there was reason for optimism. This year there really isn't. Totally different space.

Last year, you know, they won five of their final seven games. They had a defense with the defensive rookie of the year on it. They had a defense that many thought was on the verge of becoming something equivalent to like the 1985 bears. They had played, for many of you, they had played the eventual Super Bowl champions closer than anybody had. That's not true. but they had played a competitive game against Tampa Bay. Taylor Heineke had played a really good game against Tampa Bay. And there was a lot of optimism heading into the year.

It's like, wow, Ron Rivera, one in five, two and seven, rallied the troops with a quarterback that could barely walk and got this team in a bad division, sure enough. But they won five of their final seven. They have, look at that defense with Chase Young and Montez Sweat and John Allen and Duran Payne. If they can add a linebacker, if they can, you know, add another receiver, you know, add some offensive linemen, get a quarterback, they're going to be in really good shape.

This year it's like, whoa, the defense took a major step back. All of a sudden, the optimism about the defense and the star defensive players really dampened after this year. You have no answer at quarterback. In fact, you learned that you really do not have an answer. The guy you signed, you're not going to sign again at 38 years old after he had, you know, the hip injury. and so there is very little to look forward to in this offseason. Now, with that said, it'll be interesting to watch them chase the quarterback and how they go about that.

So that'll keep people interested to a certain degree. But this was a step back season. And it ended up being almost right where we kind of predicted it to end. You know, I think I had 8, 8, 8, and 1, and you had 8 and 9. I think that's what it was. and we said that there's a chance that they may not end up with the same results. And I said no playoffs for this team, but we might feel at the end of the year that it's continuing to go in the right direction. That they just ended up facing too many really good quarterbacks and the division turned out to be better than it was.

And they're making strides. They're heading in the right direction, but they didn't make the playoffs two years in a row. But they finished, you know, 8, 8 and 1 or 9 and 8 and 8 and 9, and there's a lot to be optimistic about. No, that's not where we are. Where we are is they finish 7 and 10. It truly could have been worse. I mean, I've said this many times.

You know, the expression, the Parcell's expression, you are what your record says you are. Look, they were very lucky to beat the New York Giants. Somebody had to jump off sides for them to get that win and have a re-kick. They barely survived Atlanta. on the road. They had a Raiders defensive back drop a game-ending interception that was right in his hands. And the truth is, on all the games they lost, you really can't say they deserve to win

any of the games they lost. But they really nearly lost another three games, which would have been a 4 and 13 kind of a season. I actually think when all was said and done, they were close. to kind of a four and 13 season than they were to what they ended up, which is 7 and 10. But at the same time, they did have, after they started to play well, they did have a massive COVID outbreak that really did impact, you know, three games in particular. Well, two games, really.

The Philly and Dallas games on the road. The Tuesday rescheduled game and the Sunday night after Christmas game were really games that were impacted by their loss. players and by their inability to prepare and by tragedy, you know, with the DeShaezer Everett accident. And so, but still, ultimately, this was a step back season. It was a step back season. And I'll tell you what, more than anything, Tommy, obviously they don't have a

quarterback. But more than anything, I think about, well, I thought they had a chance to be a relatively competitive team for the next, you know, several years because they were going be really good on defense. And they weren't. They finished fourth last year, DVOA football outsiders metric. And I thought that was a little inflated. This year they finished 27th defensively. This is a defense that went in the wrong direction this year. And there's a question mark around its biggest stars, or its perceived biggest stars, Chase Young and Montez Sweat. John Allen had a great year, and he's a great player. He is. Duran Payne's got a lot of potential. Jamin Davis was probably

not the right pick. I mean, time will tell, but he's not the middle linebacker. It doesn't seem they thought they had drafted. They played landing Collins out of position for the first part of the season. That hurt. They have some other players that are okay. I mean, I think Cameron Curl's really developing into an excellent player. I think Holcomb's developing into a good player. But the biggest problem and the biggest reason for the step back wasn't because they didn't get so much better offensively because we weren't sure. We were hopeful that it would be better with a quarterback that could actually move a little bit in Ryan Fitzpatrick. But we were convinced that even if the defense didn't end up statistically where it was last year, it was going to still be a

defense that at the end of 2021, we said this is the strength of the football team and this is keeping them in the hunt and we'll keep them in the hunt for the next couple of years for, you know, eight and nine, nine and eight, maybe ten and seven, maybe a wild card birth. And if they can add something to the offense and find the quarterback, look out. But no, step back year because the defense was a massive disappointment and now has a huge question mark, you know, that covers the defense's label, a major question mark. So, step back. And I agree with everything you said. And this speaks through the column I wrote shortly after Ron Rivera took the job. I think for a coach to have success in a Dan Snyder's own football team,

he has to have success pretty quickly. Yeah. So what do you think of that? dramatic success. Well, I think now you open the door, the door keeps opening more for Dan Snyder's meddling. the longer it takes, the more seven and nine seasons you have, the more eight and eight seasons you have, the more likely you're going to have the owner involved. I mean, you know, you're not going to be able to fight them off. So do you think year three is it, that he better get this team to the postseason or else? I mean, we're talking dramatic. I don't think it's going to matter.

I think nine wins and they make the playoff, it's, going to matter. If they have a 12-win season, that might do it. So you're predicting, basically, that this is going to be his final year, the third of five? Not necessarily. Well, they're not going to go, they're not going to win, they're not winning 12 games next year. Right. With a rookie quarterback, unless he quit, he's not going to quit, okay, and walk away from money. And so, and Snyder has kept lousy coaches before longer because he doesn't want to fire him and, and, pay them. So it doesn't mean he'll be fired. But his power within the organization, I think, has been reduced, at least perception-wise,

and it will be reduced in reality, if not for a traumatic season next year. My prediction here on January 11, 2020, is even if there's another rough season next year, he won't get fired. But I leave open the possibility that he would resolve. or retire after next year if things don't go well. I actually had this hunch a few weeks ago, and I think I mentioned it to you, that he seemed at times to me to be fatigued and, you know, sort of tired of this whole place. Because I asked him that on the podcast, not on the radio show, excuse me,

about whether or not, you know, this has been, you know, draining and, you know, because it's never ending. But he said that it's something that motivates him to get it Right. So I don't think he's going anywhere now. You know, obviously I think we would have heard that yesterday, more likely than not. Right. But I think a year from now, if they go 6 and 11 or 7 and 10 or 8 and 9 and miss the postseason, unless there's like a rookie quarterback situation where the guy like really was good and became better,

like Justin Herbert last year, they went 8 and 9. They didn't make the postseason. Like if they had that kind of. quarterback that had instilled new life into the franchise. Absent of that context, I think a 6 and 11 or a 7 and 10 or an 8 and 9 doesn't get him fired, but I think it increases the possibility that he retires. But I don't think he'll get fired. I don't think he'll get fired. I don't think this owner is going to fire this guy. I think he would at some point, but not after next year. Right, not after next year.

But, yeah, I mean, the impossibility is, given his health issues when he got here, he could just walk away from this. Right. If it's too much, absolutely. I just wanted to let people know that, you know, my column, you can find it in Washington Times. Go to Washington Times.com, click on sports, and you can find it on Twitter and my Facebook page as well. Very good. All right. A couple of things to wrap up the show.

when we come back. And I have a few things, too. After these words from a few of our sponsors. So I mentioned at the beginning of the show that so many of you tweeted a lot of stuff about the Raiders Chargers game that was really, really good. I mean, the bottom line is I think, you know, Tim and I had a lengthy discussion about it yesterday. And there's one thing that I would have added that I, uh, I got from Mark on Twitter, and I thought it was really, really smart, and I wanted to read it.

Mark on Twitter at m.comlay on Twitter sent me a tweet that read as follows. He said, if Jacobs get stopped on third down, don't you think the Chargers would have called their last time out to force a Raiders decision on fourth down? A missed field goal would have given the Chargers the ball with 25 seconds left on their own 43, and then the Raiders have a chance to. to lose. I think they punt on fourth down. Yeah, 100% right, Mark. A hundred percent. Let me just remind everybody of the circumstance. Two minutes to go in overtime. Both teams are in a position where if they tie, they both go to the playoffs. If one of them loses, they're out. If the other team wins, they're in. As I mentioned yesterday, it was very surprising to me that on the broadcast and even in a lot of the follow-up conversation,

I'm not saying everybody missed this. In fact, I'm sure a lot of people had this. But to me, there was incentive, you know, even at the end of overtime, for the Raiders to try to win the game. The incentive was playing Cincinnati as a five-seed versus being a seven-seed and having to go to Arrowhead to play the Chiefs, where they got beat like a drum twice in the last two months by the Chiefs by an aggregate score of 89.

to 23. So I thought the Raiders should have been trying to win the game, not by any means necessary, not by risking a loss. Obviously for them, a tie was better. But for the Chargers, keep in mind that a winner a tie, it just didn't matter. They were going to be the six seed regardless of whether or not they won or tied. So when it got to the end of the game, two minutes to go in overtime, the Chargers at that point are just like, Jesus, let's just have this game end in a tie. And the Raiders are probably like a tie's great, but it also wouldn't be bad if we had a chance to win this game without doing it with great risk. So at the two-minute warning, after the Raiders had thrown the ball on third down and eight for a first down, they come out at the Chargers' 45-yard line

and Josh Jacobs goes for minus one yard. And that was the point in which both teams just let the clock run. And that is when it really became one of the oddest moments in an NFL game I can ever remember because it became clear that both teams were going to be okay with a tie. But then what happened is that Josh Jacobs, on their second downplay, ripped off a seven-yard run. So for those that thought, well, the Raiders just wanted a tie, well, they kept running plays. If they really just wanted a tie, they may have taken a knee. But there was also the hesitancy to do that because they didn't know what the Chargers were thinking.

You know, were the Chargers thinking maybe they want to get the ball back? Anyway, after the second down run that set up third down and four at the Chargers 39 came, the most controversial moment in that overtime. And that was the Brandon Staley timeout that many people thought was a terrible timeout that cost them a playoff berth. which, as I described yesterday, I completely disagree with that. That didn't cost them anything as far as a playoff berth or it didn't incent the Raiders to try to score, even though there was a quote from Derek Carr saying that their strategy changed after the timeout. But it was just one part of the quote.

If you listen to the whole context, he also was saying, yeah, but our goal was to go to win the game all along. That's how we were playing it. And Rich Basacci of the coach really didn't indicate that at all. The truth is what the coach of the Chargers said it was. And that is that he thought they were going to run one more play. And with the play clock down to four seconds, look, if the Chargers really wanted to get the ball back and win, they would have called the timeout right after the second down play. But they didn't want that necessarily.

They just didn't want Josh Jacobs to break off a big run. where now maybe the Raiders would kick the field goal or maybe he would score, who knows. So he called the timeout with four seconds left on the play clock to put in a better run defender. He took Kenneth Murray out, he put Linball Joseph in. And the Raiders ran a play, maybe a similar play, even though they were in shotgun before the timeout, and then they were under center after the timeout. But still, the plan was to run the ball. And so Mark's tweet to me essentially said you left out one part.

And that is, if Jacobs didn't rip off a 10-yard run on 3rd and 4, which was the critical play in the game, that's what cost the Chargers, the playoff berth, is the 10-yard run by Jacobs. Because if he gets stopped for a yard or 2 yards or minus 1, well then the Raiders have to make the call on trying to attempt a 50-year. 54, 55, 56, 57-yard field goal if it's fourth down, somewhere in that range, and whether or not it's worth the risk of having it blocked and returned for a touchdown. But my contention on the show yesterday was, I thought they were going to kick it, unless it was, unless he got stopped for like a three-yard loss and it was a 60-yard kick. If it was 54, 55, 56 somewhere around there, I thought they would kick it as long as it was the final play of the game. Mark's tweet was really smart. Because if Jacobs had been stopped on that third down and the Raiders, let's say, faced fourth and three after a one-yard gain at the Chargers' 38-yard line, which would have meant a 56-yard field goal, the smart thing at that point, as Mark points out, would have been for the Chargers to call an immediate timeout with, say, 32 seconds left in the game. He says 25 seconds, whatever, 32 seconds left in the game after that play.

And the reason, as he described, was now you are forcing the Raiders to make the decision on not whether or not there's a risk of a blocked field goal in a return, but if there's a risk of missing the field goal. Because missing the field goal means the chargers get the ball at the 46-yard line with, let's say, you know, 27, seconds left after the field goal misses. And even though they don't have any incentive to win the game because their seating is the same, at the 46-yard line with, by the way, Justin Herbert, you're one, two completions away from a field goal attempt. And even they may have taken a knee, but the Raiders probably wouldn't have known that in the moment. And so they would have punted the ball instead of attempting the field goal. And Mark, I 100% agree.

that that's what the charger should have done. Now, whether or not Brandon Staley would have done that, who knows? Because ultimately, you could make the case that they should have done that on the 47-yard field goal. The big difference was it was first down. It wasn't fourth down after the 10-yard runs. So that's the difference there. But the point being that you had to put into the mind of Rich Basatia, well, if we miss the field goal and there's 25 seconds left or 28 seconds left, we could lose the game, so let's not attempt the field goal.

Let's punt it. And if they had punted it, the Chargers would have walked their offense out to the 10-yard line or the 15-yard line or the 20-yard line, and Justin Herbert would have taken the snap and taken one knee and the game would have ended in a tie. But the Raiders had to at least consider that if they missed the field goal, the Chargers would have a chance to beat them. And that was the only way at that point that the Raiders were going to miss the playoffs. So I thought that was really smart, Mark, to bring that up.

And I didn't mention that with Tim yesterday, but that's exactly what should have happened from the Chargers perspective if Josh Jacobs hadn't made a first down on that third and four run. But he did. That's why the Chargers are out. They gave up a 10-yard run, and you know what? They were the third worst rush defense in the league this year. So it ultimately cost them a playoff berth.

there at the end. But thank you, Mark, for that. I thought that was really, I thought that was smart. All right, what else did you have? Okay, I wanted to acknowledge the passing. I wanted a great wide receivers of all time, Don Maynard. Don Maynard passed away. Don Maynard passed away. He was Joe Namath's favorite target. Number 13. When he was with the Jets, Don Maynard had 633 catches for 11,834 yards and 88 touchdowns when he retired in 1973. He was the first receiver to reach 10,000 yards, and he retired as the all-time leading receiver, which stood for 13 years until a Charlie Joyner passed him in 1986. And then do you know who passed Charlie Joyner?

Would that be Art Monk? It was. Art Monk passed. Okay. Do you know who passed briefly Don Maynard? I believe Charlie Taylor did. Am I right about that or not? Well, no, because when Maynard retired in 1973, he was the all-time receiver until Charlie Joyner passed.

Okay, so Charlie Joyner passed him. Okay, so Charlie Taylor, where's Charlie Taylor on the all-time catch list? I don't know. Okay. I'm not sure. I just wanted one more thing about Don Maynard. Tommy. Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, I'm right about this. Charlie Joyner may have passed him first, but Charlie Taylor passed Don Maynard on, okay.

Charlie Taylor ended up with more receptions than Don Maynard, okay? I think Charlie Taylor passed Don Maynard in like 1975 or 76. I think he did. I'm going to pull this up real quickly. His final real year, Charlie Taylor's final year, in 1975, he had 53 receptions and he passed Don Maynard. So when did Charlie Joyner pass Don Maynard? Oh, not 1986. So you're right, man, if that's the case.

I think Charlie Joyner ended up breaking, I don't know. I forget now. Sorry. I do remember Don Maydard at one point was the all-time leading pass catcher. And for whatever reason, I thought Charlie Taylor passed him, and then Charlie Joyner passed Charlie Taylor, and then Art Monk passed Charlie Joyner. I am 100%. Charlie Taylor did have more receptions than Don Maynard. I know. Right about that.

And I'm pretty sure he was the first to pass him. If I'm wrong about that, I'm wrong about that. but I know I'm right that Art Monk broke Charlie Joyner's record. Yeah. That would definitely be the case. You know what? Maybe it's yards. Maybe it's yards we caught.

Because Charlie Taylor had 9,110 yards. And like I said, Don Mayter was the first player to go over 10,000 yards in receptions in his career. supposedly, now I need to double-check this now, is 18.7 yards per catch for Don Mader is the highest for anybody with at least 600 reception. Wow. That's really, that's amazing. And you know this, and you know this, and you can speak to this, but it's because Namath had a massive arm and they threw the ball deep. Yeah. Name it through for 4,000 yards, I think, 14 years before anyone else did in a season. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, they helped each other and they were lifelong friends. One last thing. Yeah.

I had a disturbing dream last night. Can I just say one more thing about Don Maynard? Sure. I've told you before that my father was like a big AFL fan. I mean, he was a big Redskins fan, but he was a big name. fan. And that's another thing where I can point to my father and say, the reason I know who Don Maynard is, is because my father, when I was a kid, would be talking about Nameth the Maynard. You know, and what a great connection it was. All right, go ahead.

Last night I dreamt that Dan Snyder had me kidnapped. And held in hostage. I'm serious. I'm not making this up. I woke up to one of any situations and saying, okay, it's just a dream kind of thing. I mean, it was pretty vivid. And here's the most bizarre part. He hired Jamie Asher to kid that. The tight end? Yeah, who didn't even play for Snyder.

He was gone by the time Snyder bought the team. Really? He played for Norv. And I don't know why Jamie Asher's name popped in my head. But I was being held hostage by Jamie Asher at Dan Snyder's request. And I'm trying to explain to Jamie, you know, you're going to get in a lot of trouble for this. You know, I mean, I'm going to write about this, you know. You should not threaten him.

Oh, my God. Listen, right. I'm going to write about this. I couldn't get through to him. And that's how it ended. That's a little strange. So you couldn't get through to Jamie Asher. No, but I remember I had my phone on record the minute he could.

kidnapped me. So the whole eight hours that I was a hostage was recorded. So I was going to, I was going to have my day in court. What do you think, what do you think the purpose of kidnapping you was? Did they ever explain? I don't know. I don't know. I was, I guess it was, my standout coverage. Oh, God. Wouldn't that be a great column? First of all, would be a great trial. But it would be a great column or two from Tommy on. Dan Snyder kidnapped me using Jamie Asher. What an obscure name, Jamie Asher.

That's obscure. Yeah, but it's in there somewhere. It's in that brain along with my phone number. By the way, Charlie Taylor passed Don Maynard and became the NFL's all-time receptions leader on December 21st. of the 1975 season against the Philadelphia Eagles. Now, one last thing. I'm heading to Popinot Joe's for Happy Hour tonight,

so I'd be careful if I were you. Just, yeah, I mean, when you say you were pounding beers, how many beers was that for you? Oh, I don't know, about seven. Okay. In a short amount of time. Yeah, just. Not like we were there for a couple of hours.

Will Liz be with you? Will your wife be with you? No. This is one of the bars that's within walking distance. Oh, God, I would love to be there. Do you know how cold it is today? By the way, for those of you that care about weather and know that I'm into it, the weather nerds are going nuts over how the models are spitting out a massive snowstorm

for Sunday through MLK day, which is Monday. Now, these things this far in advance are often wrong. So it might be sunny and 50. But it looks like, Tommy, you are missing a stretch of winter that doesn't look very pleasant over the next couple of weeks. And hasn't been pleasant here for the last week. When I went out at the end of the radio show this morning and came back, it was still only 21 degrees at 10 a.m. It's 54 and sunny here. Well, that's chilly for down there.

All right, we're done for the day. Back tomorrow, Tommy, you'll be with me on Thursday.