The Kevin Sheehan Show - Pressure Mounting On Gibson

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Kevin opened with Antonio Gibson's wild week and the pressure he faces Saturday against the Chiefs at Arrrowhead. Kevin also with a Commanders' season bold prediction that is Carson Wentz-related. Some reaction to Jack Del Rio's press conference today and Pete Hailey/NBC Sports Washington was guest talking Commanders' camp and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show is Kevin. One guest on this August 17th, 2020 edition of the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast, Pete Haley from NBC Sports, Washington. Pete does a great job covering the team. Pete will jump on with us shortly. This show will be dominated by Washington Commanders' Conversation today, in part,

because yesterday's show, Tommy and I doing the show together, we recorded the show yesterday before practice was over and before Ron Rivera and Scott Turner had spoken. And a lot happened yesterday. I waited today until practice was over. And by the way, Jack Del Rio spoke after practice. I'll talk a little bit about that. But what we have developing here in the second week of preseason

is a legitimate storyline, a thing. And it's Antonio Gibson's position on this football team right now. Yesterday in practice, I'm sure most of you know this now, Antonio Gibson was on punt protection team. He was running with the twos and threes on offense. Today at practice, he was returning punts and kickoffs. but really as much as that was and would have on its own served as kind of a warning sign for Antonio Gibson. It was what Ron Rivera and Scott Turner said after practice yesterday.

And I'll get to that in a moment. But what we have now Saturday at Arrowhead against the Chiefs in the preseason is a legitimate preseason storyline with an incumbent big-time player. You know, this isn't the, oh, we've got a battle between a few defensive backs and one of these guys is going to have to step up on teams, the guy that steps up on special teams in this preseason game is probably going to snag that last roster spot. That's not this.

This is Antonio Gibson playing. for something on Saturday against the Chiefs. I mean, how many times can you say that a player who is one of the more significant contributors and expected to be again this year? And I know Brian Robinson got drafted, and that was a bit of a warning sign. But how many times do you say, and I'm not talking about veteran players that, you know, are trying to stick, I'm not talking about a quarterback battle. you know, that's always a big storyline in a preseason.

That's a much bigger storyline than, you know, roster spots 50 through 53. Understood. But Gibson's got legitimate pressure on him Saturday. That game on Saturday, when Gibson's out there and we'll see if he's running with the ones, he cannot fumble. I think if he fumbles, he's done. And when I say done, I don't mean done as a player on this. team. But I think he's then done as the starter. I think then you lean heavily that Brian Robinson

Jr. is going to be the starting running back against Jacksonville on September 11th. Now, what if Brian Robinson fumbles? He didn't fumble at all at Alabama. One of the reasons they drafted him. And clearly drafting him was something we talked about as significant when it happened. You don't draft a running back in the first three rounds unless you expect to use them. And Brian Robinson's looked really good. And the one thing more than anything else that Antonio Gibson had to fix, it happened in the first game against Carolina. Here's what Scott Turner said yesterday about Gibson's fumble against Carolina. Quote, that's one of the first things that we talk about when we get together as an offense. When training camp started is protect the

football. We can't waste possessions. And obviously, if you fumble the ball, that's a waste of a possession. That's a ball carrier's first job to protect the ball. We can't have that. He knows that. I'm not saying anything to you guys that hasn't already been said to Antonio. I read his comments. I know he said the same thing. It's something that has to be fixed, closed quote. Next question was about Brian Robinson. Scott Turner, quote, Brian's been great. He's a real serious guy. Football is extremely important to him. He takes a lot of pride in being a physical runner, but he can run too. I was happy and impressed with the way he ran some things. He wasn't perfect on his tracks and stuff like that, but he runs so hard. He was still able to gain positive yardage. That's great to see from a back. I think he'll continue to get better to as the reps increase. That's his first time ever playing in a game where you're getting tackled in the league. That was the offensive coordinator on Antonio Gibson and Brian Robinson. And that last line from Turner about Antonio Gibson, it's something that has to be fixed. Ron Rivera, man,

when he gives you short, brief answers, you know he's serious. he's concerned. He doesn't want to give you much. Because when Ron's happy, go lucky and not really concerned about, you know, a situation, Ron can go on forever. How about this? On what's going on in the running back room right now. Quote from the coach.

Well, Antonio worked with the ones, the twos, and the threes. He's working with the special teams. Brian Robinson worked with the ones, two's, and he's working with the threes as well. And he's also working with special teams. so, you know, that's what we're doing. Closed quote. That was it. Then he was asked by Michael Phillips from the Richmond Times Dispatch.

Is there a competition for the starting running back job? Rivera, quote, there's always been a competition for the positions on this team. Closed quote. So he's been served notice. He's been warned and Saturday becomes a big deal. for Antonio Gibson. I'm a big Antonio Gibson believer in terms of his upside. I think this team has four to five players that have star potential. You know, let's go through the roster. I say four to five, and it might be more than that. I mean, Terry McClureen has star potential. I actually believe that

we're going to learn that Johan Dotson has star potential, but I'm going to keep him off this list because he has not played yet and then I fell down. Along the offensive line, I actually think Sam Cosmy's got future pro-ball potential. By the way, with all the injuries along the offensive line, Sam Cosmy was working at Guard today. You know, I had somebody tell me a few months back that Sam Cosmy, if he ever played guard, would be a dominant guard in this league. He's a pretty damn good right tackle too. but, you know, I'm talking about like legitimate upper levels of the league star potential. Terry McLaren, Antonio Gibson on offense. I actually think Logan Thomas really has big time upside.

But those are the two on offense. On defense, obviously it's Chase Young. It's Montez Sweat. I've always felt that way about Duran Payne, but, you know, he hasn't come close. to really showing that. Maybe this year, as he's, as Doc has said, chasing the bag, as in chasing the bag of money, maybe this will be the year. But Chase Young and Sweat are really the potential, you know, stars.

So what did I just, I gave you four players. Young, Sweat, McLorn, and I think Gibson, you know, you may say Curtis Samuel. I'm talking about like, I think if Antonio Gibbs, 6-2-230 sub-4-4 speed with, you know, I think improving running-back vision last year. If he could protect the football, and there are other running backs in the history of the game that have had this issue. You know, he's not the first. You know, Tiki Barber had a major problem protecting the football. There were other guys early in their career.

Somebody sent me something this morning, and I did not remember this, that Walter Payton had a major fumbling problem early in his career. I didn't know that. But, you know, in this day and age, turnovers are a much bigger deal. It's weird to say that because for those of you that aren't, you know, haven't been NFL fans for as long as I have, just think that turnovers are everything. And it really is probably turnover margin, the most telling traditional statistic in terms of what your team's going to be. But back in the 70s and the 80s, there were so many more turnovers, and there seemed to be a more nonchalant attitude towards turnovers. For whatever reason, I don't know that they really understood back then the significance, the impact that turnovers had on the final score. If you ever want to spend a little bit of time, it's actually kind of fun, especially if you remember some of these games.

go to pro football reference and pull up the box scores from some of the games in the 70s and even into the early 80s. I mean, there are games in which there are 10, 12 turnovers. You'd never see games like that anymore. And it wasn't a big deal either. If Gibson can figure out the fumbling problem, I don't know. I still think and believe that there's a huge chance for him and a huge upside for him. I don't think he's going to get traded. I don't think he's going to get cut. You wouldn't cut Gibson. I mean, there is trade value. There is some belief around the league in Antonio Gibson. Remember, you know, the experience he has as a running back is limited. I hope he figures it out. I really do. I love the potential of the player. But Saturday, in Arrowhead against the Chiefs, Antonio Gibson's the biggest story. in that game. How he handles the pressure. And, you know, the time he got benched last year,

remember against Carolina in the first half, which was the second of the four wins in a row when they went from two and six to six and six. He fumbled in the first half against Carolina. He got benched. And then they gave him a chance in the second half. And he probably had one of the best halves he's ever had. I think he had 78 of his 95 yards in the second half. This is an opportunity for him to respond in that same way. And I think people in that locker room are rooting for it. You know, there were the sideline shots on Saturday after the fumble of a lot of players and even coaches coming up to him and, you know, telling them to keep his head up.

One of those is Charles Leno, Jr., who's really become kind of a leader on this team. He's stood with him for a while. Jennifer King, the assistant running backs coach for Randy Jordan, spent some time with Gibson. But Gibson's performance Saturday is a big one, a big one. I wonder who's going to start. I wonder if they'll put Robinson out there to start against the Chiefs or if they say, Antonio, we're putting you out there, go do it against the ones, with the ones. we'll see big

big game for him on Saturday so on radio this morning we did a segment and I wanted to share with you what my answer to the segment was it was a big bold prediction for the upcoming

season you know something that isn't obvious something that you've been thinking about and you've been talking to your friends about that you think you're on to you know something that you think if you'll really confident about that nobody's really talking about or that, you know, people wouldn't anticipate. And I got a lot of really good responses on Twitter. But my bold prediction, first of all, my

prediction was that when we took calls, that Jack Del Rio being fired before, you know, the season was over or sometime during the season would be the number one response to a big, bold prediction. And Del Rio spoke today, and I'm going to share some of that with you here in a few minutes. And sure enough, a lot of people tweeted that and a lot of people called in with that. That is a popular, you know, idea that Jack Del Rio is on thin ice with the $100,000 fine and, you know, his political views, et cetera, et cetera. And more importantly, the defense's performance last year. And then after they gave up three for three on third down to start the game on Saturday, you know, a lot of you really believe Jack Del Rio should not be the defensive coordinator. But I promise you this.

The players think Jack Del Rio is pretty good. The players believe in Del Rio. But anyway, my big, bold prediction is that Carson Wentz is going to win at least one NFC offensive player of the weak honor or award, whatever you call it. I don't know if that's big and bold enough. I think people, I think, look, not to beat a dead horse. I'm skeptical about Wentz. I'm wait and see on Wentz, even though I concede he's the best thing they've had since Cousins.

And if he plays at the level he played at last year, they're going to be a much better offensive team than they've been since 2016, 2017. 2017 before all of the injuries started. 2017, they were a good offense again, and then all of a sudden they were bringing offensive linemen in from the street, and they didn't have Chris Thompson when he broke his leg in New Orleans. They've been a shitty offense ever since. And I think they've got a chance to, they're going to be better,

be hard for them to be worse. But I think they've got a chance to take a big step, even if Carson isn't the Carson of 2016 or 2017. But I'm skeptical and very much wait and see on whether or not he's the long-term answer. But Carson Wentz pretty much every year of his career, and sometimes it comes in stretches, like by two or three weeks in a row. I almost had the prediction that Carson Wentz was going to win an offensive player of the month NFC award this year.

But I decided that that would be too bold. But Carson Wentz has had some big games, even when he's not having great seasons. Last year, he had an incredible game against the Ravens on Monday Night Football. That game was one of the wild games of 2021. You know, the Colts had a big lead, and then Baltimore came back and won the game, 3125 on Monday night football, Wentz threw for over 400 in the game, two touchdowns, no pick, It was actually a five-week stretch for Wentz where he threw eight touchdowns and no picks and was at like a 70% completion percentage.

He has the, you know, he has a streakiness to him. And there's going to be a game or two or three in a row where everybody's a believer. That's maybe the prediction. more than anything else. That he's got to stretch of games where everybody becomes a believer. But I will cement that, memorialize that, with an NFC offensive player of the week award. I'll ask Pete Haley, the same question. I'll ask him for a big, bold prediction for 2022.

So today, Jack Del Rio spoke to the media following practice, a practice in which Antonio Gibson, as I mentioned, was returning kicks and punts. The offensive line was a bit of a mess today, and that was a big storyline, and I have already told you that Sam Cosmy moved to guard for this practice. But Del Rio spoke today, and I'll tell you what, man,

Jack Del Rio got himself into trouble with the one required press conference during the offseason, obviously with the dust-up comment. And again, you know, It's not what you believe or not believe with respect to January 6th. It wasn't smart to say it. It wasn't smart to, you know, say something so polarizing, whether or not you believe it should be polarizing or not.

The team doesn't need that stuff. That's what, you know, a big part of the Friday Jason Wright tweet was. They don't need any of the distractions. You know, minimize the unforced errors off the field and win more on the field, I say. But Del Rio was first of all asked, well, let me real quickly. He was asked about if he had learned anything from the fine, the $100,000 fine for the January 6th comments.

And his response was, quote, happy to be in camp right now. The team's doing a great job working on preparing for the season. Everything that I like to talk about should have to do with football and playing good defense, close quote. When he puts his mind to it, he's great in these press conferences. You know, if you're the football team. You know, the media is not getting much, but if it's about not giving out much, Jack can be really good at that. He was asked about deleting his Twitter account. It was a two-word answer, quote, personal choice, closed quote.

Now, about Sam Mills being fired. I'd have, I'd have to. defer. I'm sorry. Let me start that over because I think that this, the transcribing of this was probably incorrect. So I will tell you what I think he said. On the firing of Sam Mills and the hiring of Jeff Scanina or the elevation of Jeff Skinina to D-Line coach, I've got to defer to coach on any reasoning on that. I think he spelled that out with you guys. I have nothing to add. Jeff's doing a good job. The guys have responded to him well. Coach has a good sense on what he wants to do. Our job as a staff is to make it come to life, make it productive. This is what we are going to do. Then there was a follow-up question.

What went into the decision to change the defensive line coach? Quote, like I said, anything you want to talk about in terms of that, I just defer you to coach, meaning Coach Rivera, closed, quote. He said something else, though, about something. Skinina that was also said from John Allen and a couple of the other players in the wake of last week's firing of Sam Mills and elevation of Jeff Skinina. And he said, Del Rio said, he brings a wealth of knowledge having played the position. Multiple times we have heard since the Sam Mills firing, that the players really like Coach Z, Jeff Skinina, spelled Z-G-O-N-I-N-A, because he played the game. Sam Mills didn't play the game. Jeff, you know, had a career in the

NFL going from one team to another, you know, a journeyman career. But, you know, obviously as it relates to this particular coach Sam Mills and the one that got the job, it's the fact that this one guy, Jeff Scanina, played 17 seasons in the NFL with eight different teams. And Sam Mills, the third, didn't play at all. And I've picked up on the fact that everybody that's been asked about this has said, well, Jeff played. Coach Z played the game. as if to say, yes, Sam didn't, you know, couldn't coach us because he didn't play the game. That's not true in a lot of cases.

There are a lot of really good head coaches that never played the game. But, you know, it's certainly the reason they're using. And maybe it is the reason that Sam Mills wasn't very good at what he was doing. He had been with Ron for a while. He had been with Ron going all the way back to 2005. You know, he was a D-Line coach for two years in Carolina, an assistant D-line coach for eight years in Carolina. And by the way, eight years as an assistant D-line coach

may have been a tell on Sam Mills. If you're really good, do you really go eight years without getting a position coach job, like a head position coach job? Probably not. Del Rio was also asked about the third down issues in the opening preseason game against Carolina. And he said, you know, they gave up three third down conversions on the first three third downs of the game. He said, quote, my reaction is to not overreact, but I didn't like it.

And then he went into some more detail. but this has to be a massive emphasis, of course it is. Not just that they get better defensively because it was the biggest disappointment, the disappointing part of last year's team. But the way to get better defensively is they've got to get off the field on third down. They were 31st in the league last year,

and you could chalk up defense overall and really specifically third down defense last year as near the top of the list as to why they won only seven games last year. It was a massive area of disappointment. The biggest surprise of last year. The biggest surprise of this year, I don't know what that would be. I guess it would be if they weren't improved offensively from where they've been. You know, it was easy to say two years ago, I remember saying they're going to be better defensively than, you know, what they've been. And that was obvious because they had been so bad and they were adding players and it was a new staff and it was a defensive staff, et cetera.

Last year, you know, you were hopeful that they were going to be able to improve offensively, but they didn't really. This year, with all of the weapons, with a better quarterback, a more capable quarterback, I think the biggest shock would be if they aren't much better offensively. That would be the biggest disappointment. if that didn't happen. All right, let's get to Pete Haley right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by our good friends from Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com for their back-to-school sale.

That's buy two windows, get too free with no limit. Pay nothing until the year 2024. Mention my name. You'll get a free estimate. There's nothing to risk if you've been thinking about new windows. Wind donation 86690 Nation, wind donation.com. You don't have to pay dime one until the year 2024. All right, joining us on the podcast, and I'm happy about this because we had Pete on either the podcast or the radio show.

I forget a couple of months back. But Pete Haley's doing a great job covering the team for NBC Sports Washington. He and JP and Mitch have a really good podcast as well. Washington football talk, get that wherever you get a podcast. But Pete's been out there throughout training camp. And I wanted to start with this question. And I do want to circle back to like, you know, some specific things that have come up today and really yesterday. But on radio this morning, you know, we did, I don't know, 30 minutes on your one big, bold prediction for the season, like right now.

And I knew what the number one answer was going to be. It was going to be Jack Del Rio, who spoke today, you know, wasn't going to make it through the season. But give me, and I don't know if you guys have done a similar segment, but give me right now a big, bold, something that would surprise people prediction about the upcoming season. So this might not be the, like, sexiest, boldest, but based on what I've seen in training camp, I will proclaim that William Jackson III is going to emerge as the best. defender on this team. The guy who gets the best pro football focus ratings, the guy who has the most

impressive standard counting staff in terms of interceptions and coverage numbers and all that. I think he's going to be better than Montez. I think Chis Young, whenever he attends, is going to have some rust to work off. I don't see Jamon Davis or any of the linebackers approach him. And while Kendall Fuller's had a really good camp, I think Jackson, his like physical tools, his speed, his longer arms, just give him more of an upside. And remember,

when he was signed last year, they viewed him as a guy who could eliminate half the field. He was the number one corner on the market, and he had issues transitioning to the scheme, and I think the coaches probably needed some time to acclimate to his strengths and how to deploy him. And I think this year there's a better understanding, and the Jackson's the third we're seeing out on this field doesn't even resemble the one we saw last summer. So I love where he's headed. All right, I like that one. Tell me what is different. Is it, you know, remember the narrative for the most part, everybody just bought into it was he's a man corner and they're playing too much zone.

Do you see a shift in philosophy defensively with what they're going to do? I would say I have seen him play a little more man. And what was disturbing last year when they did play man, he was still getting deep. So maybe just the zone aspect was bleeding into his man coverage and it just had his head spinning overall. one play, what's said today's Wednesday on Tuesday's practice. He was right up in Terry McClureen's face, right on the line of scrimmage. It's a classic like man-to-man teaching tape. Follow them up the sideline.

It was a comeback route. So when Terry turned, William turned, and because his coverage of folks, Herb, once his ball hit William right in the number three on his jersey, it looked like he was the receiver on the play. So it was good to see that he still has that old skill set ready to deploy. But I also just think he's better with the game. his own. He knows where to look. He knows what's being asked him. He's long said that the game against the bucks last year was where it clicked for him. Unfortunately, there are some injuries

there that saffed the second half of the season. We didn't get to see a ton from him after that click, but I believe the zone stuff is more natural to him, and because of that now, he also has the confidence to get up in a dude's grill and just follow him step for step when he has to. I think it's all coming together and it's going to be the William Jackson that got the giant payday as opposed to the one who everyone was questioning why he got the giant payday. That would be so important for them this year because they obviously have to be better on the back end. You know what still bothers me about Jackson? Not that I disagree with you necessarily because he's had good seasons as an NFL player. But what bothered me is that Cincinnati wasn't

even interested in keeping him. Now, it was the Bengals, and I remember at the time thinking to myself, well, it's the Bengals, but then they went to the Super Bowl last year and nearly won it. And that's been the one sort of gnawing thing for me in the back of my mind is if you recall that free agency, Cincinnati had zero interest in resigning William Jackson, even though he had had, you know, I think it was the year before the year he became a free agent, his best season. But that would be huge if he stepped up. All right, well, let's use that answer. William Jackson as, you know, your big bold prediction for the year as a segue into what's in front of him defensively. What are you seeing out there in the front four without chase, obviously? And then more

specifically, you know, what's going on at linebacker? Yeah, so the D-line without Chase, I mean, James Smith-Williams and Casey Tooho are not exactly household names. They're not guys who inspire a ton of confidence or have any sort of dynamic go-to move that just jumps off at you when you're watching them. But I'm not sure we saw that the defense was a little more organized when Chase was sideline at Montez-2 and these guys had to play. I think they're always in the right spot and maybe because they don't have those unearthly gifts that they have to just trust the scheme and be more Simon-based and be more cerebral.

And that could help because you just know where they're going to be. So they've done a good job this training camp again. Their ceiling is nowhere near 99th, and I think as soon as 99s back, there's going to be an upgrade there. But I think they're doing well, and I think they help against the run. But Aaron Mathis is the one who's going to be the real difference. They haven't had a space-eating guy in the middle like that. there was a good character who's last year. John Allen, Durant, and of course, you know what they can do.

And then the backups, I and I settled. They were more of a pass rush and BELAN. I'm not really there for any kind of run support. So Mathis will make the biggest difference, but maybe early on, Two Hill, JSW can be pretty solid as well. At linebacker, look, I mean, it's David Mayo is the one who's playing when it's running time, when the offenses are in first and ten on their own goal liner,

You're in a, when they're doing a run-specific sequence here in Ashburn, they're using David Mayan instead of Jamie Davis, and that's troublesome. But it just feels like, all right, we recognize that our first rounders are ready for this yet, and instead of keeping him out there for posterity's sake, we're going to try and fix. You run defense issues. David knows where to go. He's maybe not fast enough to get there or strong enough to make the tackle every time once he does. But because he's smarter and more used to reading NFL offenses, that allows Cole,

to not have to look to his left to make sure James is doing well and then handle his own stuff. So I think there's just better synchronicity between those two. But still, I think this run defense could be a bit of a bugaboo, a bit of a weakness, just because those linebackers aren't the biggest, aren't the most feared. I think the D-line can do okay, but the linebackers, I think, will be where the advantage is taken against them. One more about the defense. Percent chance that Duran Payne is on this roster next year.

year, meaning that he had a really good year and they either decided to extend him or they franchised him. Percent chance that he is a Washington commander in 2023? One and four. I think it might be the franchise tag route. I don't know, have the numbers in front of me, so I don't know how advantageous that would be versus getting a long-term deal done. I don't know if long-term deal would help. Maybe he is the stud this year. Montez has another up-and-down season where it's seven sacks, but he misses some games. There's some games where he's not really making his presence felt, and instead of the calculus being,

they can't keep every linemen, so they need to let Payne go. They can't keep every lineman, and they have to let sweat go. I know he's got the fifth-year option next year, but maybe Payne jumps ahead of sweat in terms of the long-term negotiation power rankings, but I still just believe Mathis was the succession plan, and as long as he holds his own and proves to be a good sidekick there, next down, and I would imagine those would be the two who move forward, and that pain is headed for another organization. You made me look up real quickly what the franchise tag for the position.

It's 17 plus million this year, so it'll be probably a little more next year, and he's making eight and a half right now. We're talking to Pete Haley. All right, let's flip it around. And I think the absolute storyline, and you usually don't have a lot of them in preseason games, but there is one on Saturday at Arrowhead, and it's Antonio Gibson. I think there's some pressure on him, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens. So give me your thoughts on the overall, you know, Gibson, Robinson, running back situation. The pressure is squarely on Gibson's shoulders, and in covering the scene, I think this is my fourth full season.

I've learned that, like, there's just so much interest in what they do. every little lineup change gets so much attention that I try to be calm and reasonable, not overreact and know that there's another day tomorrow and there's more of a sample size to get, et cetera. But I think after seeing Saturday, hearing how Ron's talked about it, seeing Antonio now, running with the three, handling some special teams duties, I think Brian Robinson is the top guy in the backfield. Now, Gibson isn't necessarily just destined for the abyss and inactive duties or anything. I think he'll still be a part of the offense because he's super talented and he should be used at times. But the one thing he couldn't do, he did against Carolina and the change in tone from Ron of, hey,

we're going to stick with him. He's still learning to. He needs to run harder. I need you guys to write that down. So we are asking him about it in the future. That felt like a stark adjustment from Ron's tactics. So, yeah, I think he's got to have a really good game. One more turnover, I think, is just going to make everybody go apoplectic.

But say he handles that at least and shows more of the aggressive, decisive running style, then that would be a nice recovery for him. But I still ultimately see Robinson as the guy they trust most. He doesn't fumble. He was taken into third round, which means they wouldn't have done that if they fully believe in Gibson already. And Gibson is now giving them more reason to question his place in the lineup. I told Ben this morning on radio, can you imagine, like, if Gibson has, you know, a day in which he's just focused on protecting the ball, and he does, but he's not very productive. And then Robinson

fumbles. I mean, just like conversation we would all be having on Monday, because you really rarely in these preseason games have a thing. This is a thing right now with this team. And there's actually legitimate pressure on a player that everybody, you know, certainly felt like was going to make the team, and I'm not suggesting he's not going to make the team or is going to get traded, but could end up being the backup running back after there was great hope about Gibson becoming, you know, a potential star, which I think he's got the potential to become. By the way, on that position, I know that they like and have liked Jonathan Williams. And every time we've seen him, you know, he's actually produced. Do you think there's a spot for him on this roster?

I am also a Jonathan Williams fan. And I also just want to say, I have long really loved Antonio Gibson. I think in a different world and a different reality on a different team, maybe he would be bumping his head up against his upper level of the theory. But for here, with McKissick existing in the past, catching role, and now Robinson here, just feels like it's never going to fully pan out. But I think it's a shame because I do think there's some untapped potential there. Regardless, Williams, yes, he does.

He just is very steady, right? Like, he's not extremely fast. He doesn't make these spin moves like McKissick does. he doesn't necessarily run people over like Robinson seems like he can, but he just makes smart decision, gets four or five yards at the very minimum, and is reliable. He had, I think it's 19 carries and maybe four catches last year, so he's not a total unknown. They've seen him play in a couple games. He scored a touchdown.

Like, they're aware of what he can do. Is there a spot? I'm not confident saying that. I think they ultimately keep three, but if there is a fourth, I would keep Williams over Jared Patterson, who also had a decent rookie season, but just Williams' bigger and just is really, like, steady. And I love what he's done. And if he's not catching on here, I do think he catches on elsewhere because he just seems

like a guy you can plug and play. And like, you may not get the fantasy numbers or the crazy stat lines. I think he could do the job of an NFL running back and do it really reliably. All right. Let's take a quick break with Pete Haley. And when we come back, we will figure out a way to inject some Carson Wentz into this conversation. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. More with Pete Haley from NBC Sports Washington coming up here in a moment. This segment of the

podcast is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. And they'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar. If you're wondering about a preseason betting trend, 14 of the 17. preseason games so far have gone over the total. So the books have up their numbers for this weekend. The numbers were, I think, on average, 36 as an over-under total for games last weekend, up to 40 this weekend as an average so far. Washington, by the way, in their game against the Kansas City Chiefs,

they are three and a half point underdogs, and the total is one of the biggest of the pre-perts. preseason weekend at 43. MyBooky.com, my bookie.ag for all of your preseason NFL prop bet opportunities. And again, if you use my promo code, Kevin D.C., they'll match your first deposit all the way up to a thousand bucks. We continue with Pete Haley from NBC Sports Washington at Pete Haley, NBCS on Twitter. Why do you think Pete Scott Turner is moving to the sidelines from the booth to call plays this

year. I would imagine, and it's what he said, I think it's just so he can be there with Carson, and it's funny. Like, when he's up in the booth, it's all great, he can see the field so well. When he's down on the sidelines, it's all, you know, talk to guys face-to-face. The same thing with a coach. When a coach is too hard on the players, the next guy's the person, it's too soft, and the next guy's a hard aft, and the next guy's a hard aft. It flips back and forth. So when Scott moves down to the sideline, we'll all emphasize his ability to talk face-to-face, but I do think it does, make a difference with Carson. They are still new to each other.

They're still hashing out what they like, what they don't like, and it's better for Scott to be right then and there in Carson's space to have those conversations. And it also allows him to bump around to other position groups, which he mentioned. If he needs to go say something to McClureen or Curtis Hodges or Jonathan Williams, he can make those little chats happen in a more efficient way. And he'll have Jim Hostler, an offensive assistant up in the booth,

relaying what he's seeing from the bird's eye view. So, look, it's probably not going to make a huge difference in the record. I think there's 79 other factors that matter more. But I think in the end, I would like my OCs to be on the sideline where they can just interact with everybody they want to without having to go through a phone and all that good stuff. All right. Three weeks from Jacksonville, three weeks from Sunday is the opener against Jacksonville. Give me the thing that you're most concerned.

about right now and the thing that you're most confident in? I'll start with what I'm confident in, and it's foolish because it's somewhat based on what we're seeing from Curtis Samuel. But I'd like everybody to know that Curtis Samuel has not missed the practice since last Tuesdays on like a seven practice stretch. Some of those were lighter, no pads, and one of them was a walkthrough, but he's been a full participant in three padded practices and a game, and there hasn't been any issues with him in a while. So my most confident thing is the receiving court. We know what Terry can do. I think Jahan,

all the reports and all the excitement is warranted. He's just such a professional, super polished. We'll never drop a pass in his entire life. And then you have McKissick there to assist. Gibson, we don't know what fully his role is going to be, but I think he can be a really good role player if that's what they assign him to. And Robinson looks ready to. So I think just the skill players, the receivers, yes, tight end is a bit of a disaster,

but hopefully someone there can step in. I just feel like the offense can move the ball of Carson. He doesn't need to play exactly like he did against Carolina because a lot of that was pretty easy, pretty boring stuff. You'd like to see the bigger plays come to fruition. But for the most part, do what you did against the Panthers. Get back, hit your back foot and throw it to the players who this team has made a point of getting you so your job is easier. So that's what I like the most. The thing that I'm scared of the most, I just think it's like it's a little veer.

But, like, this team has started so slowly under Ron. The defense comes out. The opposing offense gets a bunch of first down, scores a touchdown. The offense, and I've written about this before, I don't have the stories here, but I know the numbers back it up. They are really bad on their first drive. I think two years ago was when they had only one touchdown on their opening drive, and I think one other field goal.

Last year wasn't a lot better. They're always in holes, and I could see it being an issue against Jacksonville. Trevor Lawrence and Doug Peterson come out all thrilled. to start this new era. They go up 10-0-0, and then FedEx Field gets that familiar feeling of like, oh, my God, this is just there's no energy here. People are freaking out when there's six minutes left in the second quarter. And then it happens in Detroit the next week.

So, like, I need this team to, there's urgency, is the word of the day, is the word of the year here with it being year three under this regime. I need that urgency to also be apparent in the little smaller scope of get an early lead. Don't wait until the second half to turn around. And I'm worried about that because we haven't really seen the staff figure out of the way to reverse it yet. And while Carolina was just one game, that was another indication that it could still be an issue. You know, that's a really, really good point. And I've talked about these first two games in particular the way the schedule breaks

and how it really puts, you know, an additional amount of pressure on them, on this team, with the new name and with all of the, you know, hope that year three, for Rivera as a turnaround year. And, you know, they're getting, they're going to get a better team and a better coach team in Jacksonville in the opener. And Detroit, you know, is becoming kind of a chic pick for a lot of people. And neither one of these games more likely than not is going to be easy. And to your point, like the first game he coached in, I think they were down 17-0 to

Philadelphia and they were about to get blown out. Now, they came back and won that game because they couldn't protect Carson Wentz, if you recall, I think it was like seven or eight sacks or something like that in that game. But yeah, starting fast, especially specific to the schedule in the early portion of the schedule, I think is huge for this team because everything with this team can snowball. Now, Ron's done a great job of rallying these, you know, from 2 and 6 last year to 6 and 6 and 6 and from what were they, 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 the year before. But yeah, you don't want to get in that hole, not this year.

All right, last one, and I'll give you the example, but I'm looking for the if and then fill in the blank NFC East discussion. So for me, it's if Jalen Hertz takes a step forward and becomes a better passing quarterback, I think Philadelphia is not only going to win the division. I think they're going to be a 12-plus win team and have a chance in the NFC playoffs to go to a Super Bowl. I think they are that loaded around the quarterback. To me, that's the biggest if in the NFC East. What's yours? That's probably what I would do, non-commanders addition.

I don't, even if, you know, the Giants have the best case in areas they're able to invigorating that group, the O-line being better, Jones being better, I just don't see them ever rising to a point where they're ready to make it a big difference this season. So I'll ignore them, and we've talked plenty of commanders. So, like, Well, it can be a commander's thing. It can be, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just the big, if something happens, then that team, you know, will ascend in a big way.

It's the, it's the, I just think. If, if, if the cowboys stop doing this cowboysy things that every non-caboy fan like, Mike McCarthy being a dope with time management, Ezekiel Elliott fumbling and continuing to regress, like, they have the best team in the division still, I think even with what the Eagles have done. They really only added A.J. Brown on that offense, which is a huge addition, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's necessarily, you know, I feel like the Eagles are getting more credit for what they've done. And yes, I know they draft two guys on defense too, but I think the Cowboys, if the Cowboys actually function the way they should,

as opposed to continuously tripping over themselves and providing fodder for all the league-wide people who like to mock them, then I think they become the first repeat division winner since 2004. And again, I don't have any, like, hardcore definition on what that is, but it feels like the Cowboys every year. They're always at the center of attention. They always get off national TV games. Dak Prescott, Jerry Jones is always making waves. And then it never really lands.

There's never really any justification for all that attention. But they can do it if they just silence all the stress. They had 17 penalties last week in a preseason game, and they led the league last year in penalties. I actually, it's funny because I thought you, I mean, this is one of those things, obviously you would give thought to before doing this. But I think the second biggest if is Carson Wentz. Because if Carson Wentz has, you know, approaches Carson Wentz, you know, his best abilities, Washington is going to be a tough out offensively anyway. Yeah.

You can never go wrong with Carson. and he's the ultimate X factor here, but I guess I didn't go with him because what I've seen in camp hasn't suggested there's like a major resurgence. Like I think what we've seen in camp lines up with what I've heard and what we're expecting. It's going to be ups. It's going to be downs.

There's going to be weeks of satisfaction and then weeks of misery. And maybe if he can even that out a little bit, then he'll be a top 12 quarterback. But I don't think it's going to approach like, holy F, this guy is completely, rewriting the narrative for his career. And because of that, I don't think the commanders necessarily are going to be able to qualify for the playoffs.

You know, I had them as a 10-win team coming into camp. I think I'm down to nine. And unfortunately, Cowboys and Eagles will be able to outdo those numbers. At Pete Haley, NBCS, you're doing a great job covering the team. Again, the podcast he does with JP and Mitch is a good one, Washington football talk. Get that wherever you get your podcasts. thanks for doing this and let's talk again maybe before the season.

Yeah, always good to get a text from you to hop on, so feel free to send them my way in the future, and I'll be ready to chat whenever. All right, good job by Pete. That's it for the day back tomorrow with Tommy.