The Kevin Sheehan Show - Pressure On Peters

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

Kevin and Thom with a lot more on Washington's NFC Championship loss to the Eagles. They discussed the pressure that now exists on Adam Peters to closet the roster gap on Philadelphia in the NFC East. Were the 2024 Commanders a fluke or was this the beginning of a run? The boys answered that and recapped the Don Van Natta/Seth Wickersham ESPN.com weekend story on Dan Snyder.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation.

86690 Nation, Windonation.com, if you need new windows. Tommy, this from Burke. Burke writes, Kevin. What I gathered from your game analysis, and he puts analysis in quotes, is that you thought the Redskins were just a play or two away. That is fan delusion. But it's also another sign that you're back. It's good to see you again.

Oh, Burke, that's a good one. I appreciate that. And you can tweet Tommy at Tom Levero. You can tweet me at Kevin Sheen, D.C. You can rate and review the show on Apple and Spotify. That's a big help. And you can follow the show. Hit the plus button or the follow button.

on Apple and Spotify as well. So Tommy, I want your take here in a moment, but it's not exactly what I said in my analysis, Burke, but I appreciate the note. I definitely believe that the final score will be looked at down the road as, oh my God, Philadelphia holds the record for the most points ever scored in a championship game. They scored 55 when they smoked Washington,

you know, in the 2024 NFC championship game. And the truth is, in my opinion, that there were a few plays that really ultimately made the score what it was. I don't think that they would have changed the outcome because Philadelphia was the superior team, which I was very adamant about in my post game. And even with Cooley yesterday, Philadelphia was the better team. There's no doubt about it, and they played great. However, there are a few plays in the game. The fourth and five missed hold in the first half.

Obviously, down 3423 in moving the football, if Echler doesn't fumble, you know, Washington, we've seen it all year. Jaden brings the team back, and he was in the process of strapping the team to his back again, and that could have been a huge drive. But, you know, when you lose by 32, to your point, it's not one or two plays. But there were a few that I think may have made the final outcome look a little bit more respectable than a 32-point blowout loss. Anyway, thank you, Burke. Tommy, your chance to weigh in on the NFC championship game, which we both picked Washington to win.

You know, I have to agree with you that I don't think the score was indicative of how an opportune moments this game could have been different. Not necessarily the outcome, I agree with you. Although, you know, I mean, if they're, you know, if they're within a touchdown, you know, going into the fourth quarter, then I think the outcome could have been different. but I mean I think the score does not indicate how close it was I think the stat that indicates what happened were the four turnovers and the penalties I think that that's basically the story that that tells the game but one of the things that happened was that Jaylen Hertz was not as as unfunctional as we thought he would be right

you know, for lack of a better word. If that's a word. I think he was, if he was more, I think he was more able to be the quarterback that they need than we may be anticipated. There was a lot of buildup as to how healthy he would be before the game. Remember, they said he was going to wear a knee brace. Yeah. And then they took it off.

Right. He took it off right before game time. So, I mean, look, if Jayon hurts, is playing well. that's an awfully difficult offensive stop. I mean, I totally agree. I know that I went on maybe a bit too much for some of you about how good Philadelphia was and how good Jalen Hertz was. But I think part of it was because of Tommy what you just said.

I think the expectation I had, and it wasn't just because he got injured last week, it was because they just haven't looked great offensively throwing the football. You know, they just, they haven't. You know, they look very basic. He's looked even before the injury in the snow against the Rams, like, you know, he's not seeing it, or, you know, he holds it too long, or he throws to the wrong guy or whatever it was.

He was unbelievably good. His PFF number was the highest in the game. He was like 91 or something like that. I just was really, if I had been watching it as a, as someone who couldn't have cared less about the result, he would have been, along with Barclay and A.J. Brown. But if I'd been a football fan and watched Jalen Hertz, I would have said, wow, he really rose to the, to this moment. He answered the bell big time. And when you think about Jalen Hertz in his career, that's what he's done.

You know, if you go back through some of the big games they've had over the years, regular season or postseason, other than the Tampa Bay game last year when the team had fallen apart down the stretch. But that Super Bowl that he played against Kansas City as an example, a lot of people came away from that game, me included, not saying that he was a better quarterback than Mahomes, but that he was the best quarterback in that game, which he was in that game. This guy did it in college, too. He's done it in the pros.

He just, he does whatever it takes to give the team the best chance to win. If that means it's handing it off and running it and not taking chances and protecting the football, or if that means throwing for 250, you know, against Pittsburgh, you know, late in the season, he threw for nearly 300 yards. and that came out of nowhere, but it's what they needed because they weren't as good in that game against the Steelers running the football. 100%. Jalen Hertz was a bit of a wild card going in, and I leaned in the direction of that being a plus for Washington, and it wasn't.

We've talked about this. I mean, Philadelphia was a better team, is a better team, okay? and if they played up to their capabilities, if both teams played as good as they could, Philadelphia was going to win. So, I mean, Washington didn't play as well as they could, in part because Philadelphia did play so well. I think, you know, but Shailen Hertz,

what was the difference maker in this game? You know, he didn't make the mistakes that we've come to see him make. He wasn't as tentative, as he seemed to be, like he said. He rose to the moment. And by the offensive side of the ball for Washington, I was way off on Austin Echler's contribution to the game. He was not a factor that I thought he would be.

It was not part of the offense that I thought he would be. So there were a lot of things that went wrong with for Washington, besides just the turnover. But, you know, I think that they got they got the most out of what they could this season and you know I wrote this column

saying that that you know at the beginning of training camp Dan Quinn said it would be a successful season if the team basically adopted an identity you know had created an identity

for themselves and they did but that identity is Jaden Daniel That's the identity for this team. This season, I mean, we're going to have plenty of time to kind of go back and look at it. But there's no doubt that I'll remember it. And I don't think anything in this offseason or seasons to come will change my view of it. This season was just a massive overachieving season because the quarterback was brilliant.

the offensive coordinator was outstanding. And I mean, how many teams get to the NFC championship game with 14 wins with virtually a defense that is in the bottom third of the league, bottom quarter of the league in most statistical categories, and really in their biggest games towards the end of the year, had no running game. I mean, a young rookie quarterback needs a running game. needs a great defense. He didn't have any of that. And yet they won 14 games. And he was their leading rusher in 10 games. That cannot happen moving forward. They've got to fix that. You know, you know, it'd be nice to get a Derek Henry. I understand that. Or Jimere Gibbs or a Sequin

Barkley. They don't grow on trees, but they can't have Jaden in position to your point, your column, you know, they've got some work to do because the other part of this, Tommy, is that what was very clear Sunday night, and in some ways it was kind of clear in the three games they played head-to-head with Philadelphia, even though they won one of those games, is that there is a difference between Philly and Washington. Philly's got not just the best roster in the division, as we speak, they probably have the best overall roster in the NFL.

They hit on every single draft pick pretty much every year in the first three to four rounds, it seems like. So they're going to continue to be very good at acquisition, talent acquisition. Their stars in the game played better than Washington stars. You know, Barclay, obviously, and we mentioned Hertz, but A.J. Brown was a monster in the game, not just as a receiver, but as a blocker. Goddard was phenomenal. in the game. Defensively, they've got stars all over the place. And so, you know, we have, I do believe, the best quarterback in the NFC. And so Washington's going to be in the mix, moving forward, no doubt. But to get to the next step, or even to get back to where they were,

you really have to win the division. You know, this is where when people focus on the division games, it's not just focusing on the division games because that's only six games out of 17. You've got to win the most games in your division so that you end up playing some of these games at home. That's your best opportunity to get back to this spot and then at least one step further. And you've got a team in your division that right now has the best roster in the NFL, and they've got a front office that's proven over and over again that they just keep replenishing. And so you got to figure out how to, right now, yeah, the Packers are good, the Lions are good, the 49ers could get healthy again and be really good, you know, who else knows?

There are others that could end up being really good. But you've got to beat, you've got to win more games than them. It's not just that you have to beat them once at least. You've got to win more games over 17 than them. So the next time you play them, if you play them in the postseason or you play anybody, it's at home and not their place. Because that's an advantage for them. That crowd's great. Their fans are awesome.

How about some of the videos that have been posted? I say they're awesome. They're awesomely awful. But you got to close the gap here because there is a gap. Yes. Yes, there is. But, okay, as a. fan. Look, I think it was clear, and I make this clear in my column, that I think

Jane Daniels really thought they were going to win the game. No doubt. I think, you know? I think they all did. That seems like an obvious thing, but, you know, I mean, I think some reasonable people might go into the game like this and hope they were going to win, not think they were going to win. I think Jane Daniels, based on his post-game reaction, really thought they were going

to win this game. Did you think they were going to win this game? I did. I mean, it's the same thing that I thought last week. I picked Detroit last week, but I felt the same way about the game. I'm like, they can definitely win this game. They're the one. It's different than they will. Did I think they would win the game? You know what? I did think they were going to win this game. I thought they weren't going to win last week, even though I absolutely felt like they could. The difference going into this game, and I think I expressed this last week, is that I just didn't think Philadelphia was explosive enough offensively to keep pace. I thought Washington's offense would be unstoppable, unstoppable again. And it would have been had they not fumbled over and over

again because, you know, they did move the football. They only punted once. They lined up to punt another time and faked it, but they still moved the football against the, the best defense in the league, they just unfortunately didn't hold on to the football. Okay. Another part of the game that has gotten way too much attention, I think, is I'm curious what you think. The push-push-push-lou-leap controversy. What's your take on that? Well, what's your take on it?

I want to hear because I've talked about it for the last two days. What's your take on it? Okay. I mean, look, I didn't know what the rule was. but even if without the rule, it seemed like a reasonable conclusion by the referee to say, if you keep doing this,

you know, we're just going to give them the touchdown. I mean, teams would do this all the time just to get like half the distance to the goal line. You know, I mean, teams would disrupt on every play if they could get away with it forever,

you know, hoping that maybe the other team would fumble or something would go wrong or something like that. So I didn't know it was a rule, but it seemed like a reasonable way to deal with it to me. So I think I disagree with you. In this particular instance, because, I mean, the tush push, I'm over it. Okay, I'll start with that. I really wish that they would figure out a way.

We've come up with the answers before everybody's come up with the answers. You can't push an offensive player from behind the, behind the line of scrimmage, period. They got to do away with this. It's just, I don't know, to me, it's not fun to watch this play. You know, interestingly enough, they stopped it on the two-point conversion. But it's one of the ways to try to stop the play is to time the snap and try to hit the quarterback. This is a play that you've got to come up with ways defensively to try to stop.

Look, it didn't benefit Washington to continue. to be penalized. Philadelphia could have literally run the rest of the clock out in the third quarter because the clock was running and they just didn't take advantage of it. I don't know why they didn't. I also think that you've seen a lot of these still shots and we saw them last year when Washington played Philadelphia twice. It's like they line up in the neutral zone. We line up in the neutral zone. The whole play is a play in which both teams are like, you know, off sides in the neutral zone. and they just let the whole thing go. I think they've got to do something about the play.

In terms of awarding a score, not for that. No. I can't think of anything that I think the penalty for whatever is done should be awarding a score. I don't like the tush push. I just, it's rugby to me, and I don't want to watch it anymore. And, yeah, I mean, a quarterback sneak is fine, but it's a simple rule. You're not allowed to push a player with the football behind the

line of scrimmage, you know, from behind the line of scrimmage. That would solve everything. The quarterback, if he wants to sneak it, is going to have to do it on his own. And, you know, but you could certainly push a player into the end zone from beyond the line of scrimmage, but we've already got a rule in the league that says you can't pull a player forward. You know, if you're an offensive lineman, you can't pull a guy intentionally from like the 12 down to the 8-yard line. That's supposed to be a penalty now. I just hate the whole thing. And I'll tell you, I know I'm a sucker for this, but I was still trying to figure out a way for them to be in the game.

And they had to force a field goal there. They couldn't give up a touchdown. A field goal meant they were down 14, and they still had a chance with all that time left. and so I wanted them to get the stop in that moment. But yeah, it turned into a bit of a fiasco. And I don't think Washington was intentionally trying to be on sportsmen-like. I think they were trying to time it up to stop it. But even if you're not doing it intentionally, you know, your actions are creating an untenable scenario.

Look, I agree with you. The Tush push, the NFL could live without it. It's not very exciting. It was a novelty act, and like most novelties, I think people were tired of seeing it. So I have no problem if they enforced a rule that said you can't push the player from behind the line of scrimmage. I think that's a reasonable way to deal with it. I'll be curious to see what happens in the offseason. I don't know how much clout the Eagles have.

I mean, it does seem like you're singling out one team. I think the other part of this, Tommy, that I didn't mention, is that Philadelphia is trying to draw Washington off sides, too. You know, that's part of it as well. So it's like, Washington's trying to time it because you're trying to time it. It's the only way to stop it, really. And then, you know, and then Philadelphia is trying to get them to jump. You can't award a team a score when they're intentionally, and sometimes they're lined up in the neutral zone, sometimes there are subtle false starts that they're not picking up,

but they're trying to draw the defense offside. That would have been a terrible result had it actually happened. We would have been doing shows about that had it actually happened. But you couldn't let it continue. Well, then Philadelphia can't run the tush push and try to draw them off sides before the snap. I mean, then Philadelphia needs to move out of that format. If you don't, if you want that to stop, then Philadelphia has got a line up in another formation. They can't run that play.

That would have been so bizarre. Well, that's not in the rule book. The other thing is in the rule book. Yes. I wasn't a huge fan of Sean Hoculi being assigned to the game. I think we've talked about this last week. I think any time you're down to the final three games, the highest profile games of this season, And it's just bad optics to have, you know, a guy lead officiate where one team is six and O

with him as the head referee. And that's what the Eagles were. They were six and O during the Siriani Hertz era in games lead officiated by Sean Hoculi. I mean, they could have found somebody just as good without drawing attention to Hoculis record. Again, I'm not sitting here telling you that I thought going in that this was, you know, fixed in any way. But it's just not a good look, in my opinion. And it turns out, you know, Washington got the short end of the whistle in this game. But it would make sense because Philly, how many games this year, too?

Philly lost three games this year. They're 14 and 3. games. So, you know, there's probably a number of referees who have officiated Philly games where they've had been four and oh or five and oh or something like that. That might be true. But the number is for the era, the Siriani Hertz era. So four years. And it's a good point that the Eagles have won a lot more games than they've lost. So most lead officials probably in games that they've worked with Philadelphia in them. Philadelphia probably has a winning record, but you could have found somebody that had a loss or two on the resume.

You're suggesting you're worried about the credibility of your officials, and the NFL doesn't want to do that. You don't have to, you would never know that they didn't choose Sean Hockely. You would have never known that. Look, an amazing season. I guess the question is, is it a onesie? Is it a fluke? Or is this the beginning of something much bigger? We'll get to that after these words from a few of our sponsors. I want to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast, and that sponsor is Rocket Money. And guys, this is interesting. So listen carefully, because we've actually talked about the problem that Rocket Money is solving. You ever sign up for something, forget about it after the trial period ends, and then you're charged month after month after month?

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Now, granted, Adam Peters's track record as the head decision maker is very short. But, you know, they have the, they have the unlike the other team which had the aura of self-destruction over the years this team has the aura of competency and that's a big thing

for this team just to be simply competent in their jobs you know to pick good talent you know they're going to get things wrong like every team does but I mean Adam Peters feels comes across as a competent individual so is Josh Harris

as the owner You seem like competent people, a huge step for this organization. Okay? So I think based on their competency and based on the fact that they got the quarterback so right, I think the complementary football that Dan Quinn talks about is something this team can achieve. So I think it's the beginning of something good. Making the NFC championship game every year, not necessarily, but being among the, be among the favorites in the league?

Yes, I think so. Being a double-digit winner for more than one year, yes, I think so. You know, it's interesting is when you get the quarterback right as a general manager in your first draft, you basically now have all the pressure on you, you know, to build out a team that ends up being a championship team. And the pressure's on Adam Peters now. You know, I believe in Dan Quinn as a head coach. Do I think he's the best coach in the league? No.

But I certainly believe in Dan Quinn and his ability to lead, his ability to communicate, motivate and build a culture in that locker room. I love the relationship that they appear to have, Quinn and Peters. But when you get the quarterback right and it's so obvious so quickly, Tommy, the pressures on Adam Peters to deliver. a championship roster to do, and he's, remember we talked about, you know, how perfect the job was last year. Snyder's gone. You've got the number two pick in the draft. You've got six picks in the top 100. You've got all this cap space for the next couple of years. My God, you know,

you've got a huge opportunity, but the most important thing is you got to get the quarterback. And they got the quarterback at number two. They picked the right guy. I'm not saying, Caleb Williams won't be a great quarterback or, you know, Bo Nix or J.J. McCarthy or Pennix Jr. Or, you know, Drake May, they might all end up being good. But we know after one year, we got a superstar talent, a superstar, you know, kind of intangibles guy. You can win a Super Bowl with Jaden Daniels as your starting quarterback. but what was clear on Sunday is that their roster, based on their roster, the team overachieved this year because of the quarterback.

And keep in mind, you know, they had a schedule that wasn't that difficult. They had a last play schedule going into the season. They won't have that next year, even though the schedule game is hard to play, but it'll probably be different. But the pressure now is on Adam Peters to take this cap space, to take these draft picks and to pick the right people. Because Aaron Rogers got to one Super Bowl, he never really had the greatest of supporting casts around them, around him.

You know, whether it wasn't, you know, whether, I mean, Devante Adams, yes, but there was never, you know, a consistent, really good supporting cast. He always elevated that team. And he got to one Super Bowl. That was it. And they won that Super Bowl. They beat Pittsburgh in that Dallas Super Bowl. Tommy and I were there all week back in January, February of 2011.

But he never got back to another one. Philip Rivers, a superstar quarterback, never got to one. You know, thinking about just a guy like Drew Breeze, okay? He got to two or two or one. How many did he get to? He got to one. He got to one, right, and won it. Yeah.

And by the way, there were some seasons there that weren't very good at all with Breeze at quarterback. Matt Stafford, all those years in Detroit, you could tell this guy was a star quarterback. And any kind of success they had, he was elevating that team to that success. They had Calvin Johnson, but that was basically it. So the pressure is on Adam Peters now. It's the kind of pressure I'm sure he wants. It's a lot easier to put together a roster around a superstar quarterback than it is to find the superstar quarterback to elevate the roster. He's done that, and we saw an example of that.

I think it's definitely the beginning of something. I've been talking about it all season long. It's the number one indicator having that superstar quarterback that you're going to be a contender. But a contender for what? a contender for winning seasons consistently, more games won than lost, playoffs more often than not. But, and that just, that'll give you a chance every year. That's what you want.

But getting to that step to where you are the Chiefs, you know, a dynasty, or even what Philadelphia has done here recently, or what the 49ers have done, by the way, without an elite quarterback, where they're winning. games in the postseason and they're getting to Super Bowls. He's got to build it out because you got to win 12, 13 games a couple of times here and you've got to win a division and you've got to play two games at home as a one seed. Or, you know, two games, a minimum of two games at home before you go on the road. It's hard to win three straight on the road to get to a Super Bowl.

It's hard. It's happened, but it's hard. And they got work to do, you know. We'll spend a lot of time talking about what they need to do. But for me, it kind of starts on defense. You've got to upgrade the defense. You've got to find out why, too, the defense didn't work this year consistently enough because I thought there worked some good players.

I think Frankie Louvo is really good. I think you've got to bring guys like Wagner and Ertz back. I think they're leaders and they played well and they've got something left in the tank. But I think defensively, specifically it would be you need an edge setter. You need a defensive end that can set the edge in the run game and also rush the passer. If you ask me specifically what I want more than anything else, I need a defensive end that can stop the run and also get after the passer. They did not have that on the team this year. and it really hurt them all season long.

I thought they rushed the passer better than probably most people even know in terms of pressure, but they just could not stop the run all season long, and it starts up front, but I think it probably, they'd probably say it's about an edge setter. That's why you saw Duran Payne moved to defensive end in some of those late season games. they don't have a run-stopping defensive end that can also rush the passer. That's what they need, number one, in my opinion. And they need more than that. I mean, I think they need a running back.

I think they need a big-time back. Oh, absolutely. They do need a big-time running back. But they're not easy to find. You know, they're not. Especially when you're drafting, you're drafting, what, 27, 28th? Yeah, well, that's where you can find, you know, backs, because they're typically not taken super high. But you can certainly find a great back in a better situation. But to find a Barclay or a

Jemir Gibbs or a Bejan Robinson, you know, they don't, they're not, there's not a tree that you go out and pick them from. They're hard to find. But can you imagine Jaden Daniels with a Barclay or a Jemir Gibbs in the backfield? Yeah. I mean, absolutely. That wouldn't be number two for me. More defense first. That would be number one for. me. Okay. It would be to give Jayden Daniels the weapons he needs. That would be number one for me.

But they were lethal on offense without any of those weapons. I know that. I know that. I think that they would be unstoppable on offense. And plus, I think you've got to protect your young quarterback. You can't put too much of a burden on them. I think that starts with the defense. I think you protect your quarterback by stopping people much more consistently.

and not forcing him to go out and be Superman every week to win games. Where are you on the Marshawn-Ladamore trade? Wait and see. There's no, I don't think it makes any sense to have a definitive opinion on Latimore based on the injury, the point in the season in which he joined the team. I just think it's way too early. I've watched him play. I know how good he is.

So this guy has been a high-level cover corner in the league. He's been hurt. He came in late. He, unfortunately, for him, had to cover guys like A.J. Brown and Mike Evans in some high-profile games, which, by the way, are hard guys for anybody to cover. I didn't like that he lost his cool a bunch in that game, but, you know, a lot of players are, you know, they use that to sort of fuel their good performance. He didn't perform well.

But no, I'm not, my position is I'm not even going to, you know, think about it until we've seen a half a season of him next year after a full off season of health. So that's right. I'm with you. I don't think you can judge the trade based on what we saw in a half a season with an injury. player. I think, you know, you've got to have him in training camp healthy, you know, working with the defense. And then, you know, next year, you can judge whether or not that it was a good trade or not. But I'm with you. You can't make that judgment yet. I mean, it's, he became the focal point for a lot of frustration for fans because, well, because like you said,

I mean, he had to play A.J. Brown and Mike Evans. I mean, you know, he didn't have any cakewalks when he was on the field. And so I think he unfairly, he became a focal point of frustration. And I think it's too early to judge if Adam Peters lost that deal or not. This team has to get better on defense more than anything else before the 2025 season. if they can get better on defense and can improve on defense, whatever that looks like, I think it starts with an edge-setting, pass-rushing defensive end. You're going to be a better team next year. If you came back with everything you have, but you added a couple of key pieces and you got better on defense,

you'd be a better team next year. Would that equate to a better record? I don't know, because the schedule will more or less. likely than not. It's hard to predict schedules, but they play the NFC North. They play the Chiefs. They play the AFC West. They play the Chiefs and the Chargers on the road. They've got a game against the Lions at home, the Packers on the road, the Falcons on the road, the dolphins, the Vikings on the road. I mean, it's going to be different. And there are going to be a lot of high-profile games beginning with Tommy, I would say right now, there's a decent chance Jaden Daniels plays in the first game of the NFL season next year,

because they have road games against both the Eagles and the Chiefs. So regardless of who wins the Super Bowl, Washington plays at, you know, KC or Philadelphia. Can you imagine a Mahomes Jaden Daniels Thursday night season opener on September 6th or whatever date it would be? That's pretty juicy. Pretty juicy opener. It is. Anyway, all right. We've got to get to this Van Nata Wickersham story. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's. Well, you know, look, if you watch it, one of your favorite games, one of your favorite teams at Shelley's backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest, in the district, unlike a sports bar, when you watch a game at a sports bar, if your team loses,

you hang your head and you leave the place. and the bar kind of empties out. You ever notice at the end of the game, you can see like the cars leaving the parking lot of a particular sporting event at a sports bar. That doesn't happen at Shelly's, because all of a sudden, even though your team lost, you realize, hey, God, Shelly's back room.

You know, how bad can life be? Right. You know, give me another cigar. I'll have another one of those drinks from that top shelf liquor. You can find their menu, of excellence online at shelley's backroom.com. Their food menu, their drink menu, and their cigar aficionados top 25 selection of cigars. So while you may enjoy watching the game at Shelly's, and it's a great enjoyable experience,

if you're feeling down, your team loss, you're about to, you know, get in your car to go home, you stop and you say, wait a minute, where am I going? I'm at the best place that I could be. Shelly's back room, 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. The best. All right. So in the midst of championship weekend, ESPN.com's Seth Wickersham and Don Van Nata put out this story. And I talked about it on Saturday's show, the one that Cooley was on, titled How Dan Snyder views commanders' title run from afar.

And the, you know, the money quote, the headline quote, was he hates it. And that came from, you know, I've seen a lot of criticism of these, you know, the fact that this isn't from Snyder. It's from, you know, a colleague of somebody who was at the dinner, whatever. These guys, Tommy, are Pulitzer Prize award-winning reporters. Am I right? Look, yes. These guys are the ones who helped build the narrative that forced Dan Snyder out of business.

It's in part, yeah. You were fawning over their stories during the Dan Snyder era when they would reveal things that were going on behind the scenes. You know, so, I mean, look, there's a whole misunderstanding about, you know, unnamed sources. And I understand in part because it's used maybe two. too frequently that then, you know, it used to be in the past. But these guys have established credibility, okay? These guys, I mean, given where they are and the targets they've gone after, that they are still held in high regard tells you that there was very little

wrong about what they've written over the years or else people would have gone after them. So, yeah, I don't think that's just, you know, I don't know what it is. Lack of understanding of the media, but it was a great timed article. You know, I mean, they timed it perfectly. So, you know, for those that haven't seen it, and I'll just, I'm not going to summarize the whole thing, but I think that there are two big kind of takeaways. Number one is Snyder hates the fact that the team is winning.

All right, and this is the part of the story that leads to that. Dan Snyder had dinner in London with longtime associates this past fall. Talk turned to the improving commanders already at that point off to a strong start. When one associate returned to the United States, a colleague asked him the question that's been on the minds of many fans and league execs. By the way, I had somebody say, that wasn't on my mind. It's been on my mind. Tommy and I talked about it last week. What do we think Dan Snyder's thinking?

I think a lot of people have been thinking that during the course of this season. But anyway, what's it like for Snyder? These guys write for years, the most hated owner in sports to watch the commanders succeed without him. The dinner companion told the colleague, quote, he effing hates it, closed quote. So that was one big part of the story. The other was much more interesting to me because we were talking about it in real time, about how complicated the sale had gotten and how difficult he was being. Because I was hearing that.

I think you were hearing that at the time, and we were talking about it here on the show, that, you know, it's never over until that money hits the account. You know, until the money's wired, no sale is ever actually done. To me, the most fascinating part of this story was how in the 11th hour, he was still fighting. to keep his team. Yeah, that he was threatening to charge him with trespassing if they went into his stadium.

Right. You know, I still own it. It's trespassing. Yeah, and, you know, there was a lot made of Joe Gibbs' influence in the story of telling Snyder that you can't do this. You've got to follow through on the deal. You know, I'm a little bit conflicted about Gives. because he was a close friend and ally of Snyder throughout the whole tenure. And, you know, I would have thought a man of Gibbs stature and what he believed in

would have distanced himself from such a vile human being. That's funny. I thought you were going to go in another direction. I actually would minimize a bit Gibbs' influence on Snyder. I think it was his family all along. His family did not want to be a part of this team anymore. Think about what they went through for so many years. And they had had it.

They wanted him to sell. And there's basically, you know, a quote in here where Tanya was the one at the very end that said, quote, Dan, I know this is hard. This was a dream, closed quote, but essentially saying you've got to go through with it. And the guys in the story write that Tanya reminded her husband that the sale would relieve their emotional distress. And that's why he was, you know, willing to go through the process in the first place is because it had taken such a toll on the family. I mean, this family, this man is the most, you know, despised figure. that isn't a politician in the history of our city.

Yes. And so those closest to him, his wife, his kids, they felt that. And they were ready to move on and move out. And I think that's ultimately why he did it and actually considered it to begin with, put a price tag out there that he actually didn't think would be reached. know one of the reasons he said it's six billion or nothing because he knew how hard it would be for anybody to come up with six billion dollars even the ultra rich as these guys point out um i know there's a quote in here though from the you know harris splitzer group the tat uh the

ceo tad brown he said we don't get the commanders if not for joe gibbs i think they you know i'm not minimizing gibbs as much as maybe i said i did was in the beginning i think it's definitely at the very least a combination of Gibbs and his family. I think he knew that the family was under a lot of stress being a part of this thing. Remember when Tanya got booed on Pink Ribbon Day. On breast cancer ribbon day, all days. Yeah. You know, look, can you imagine a vitriol if Snyder had backed out at the last minute? How much more hated you could possibly be? It would have been on brand. Yeah. He was pissed that they find him the $60 million for the Mary Joe White thing.

You know, that really set him off at the end, no doubt. But Tommy, there are a couple of things in here that just were so interesting. Number one, a source with direct knowledge said that after months of negotiations with Harris, Snyder was imagining ways to keep his team. One idea, the source said, was to announce that he had years earlier given a up alcohol and to say that much of his alleged misbehavior over the years that caused so much league and fellow owner angst happened while he was drunk. He was considering saying, I was a drunk. I'm sorry, but I am rehabilitated. I'm fine now. This stuff doesn't happen anymore.

What a low life. What an absolute low life. Yeah. I know, I got to admit, I'm shock that Tanya is still with him. I don't know anything about her. I just don't know how anybody could live with such a human being. You know, I have heard from many different people over the years that their kids are great. That, you know, given what they've been through, you know, as his son in this town, that they're great.

You know, Cooley knows the son very well and, you know, really likes the kids, you know, as a father, as a family man, or maybe it's all her, Tanya, who knows, but yeah, I don't know. That's, who knows what's going on behind the scenes. I do think it's just so interesting that he would not turn over the wiring instructions, his bank account information, and said, you know, that stadium, I still, you know, own it. They'll be trespassing and he wouldn't turn the keys over. I mean, can you imagine somebody wanting to wire you $6 billion

and you not giving your bank information? I don't care how rich you are. That's really, really hard. And now he wants to try to buy a Premier League team? They won't let him do that. He would have to be approved. Of course not. Yeah.

Right. The last quote in the story, Snyder's outlook is evolved. There's still anger and he remains in. denial about what led to his ouster, said a person close to his inner circle, which is kind of what you talked about last week, which I agree with. You know, this guy's narcissism, this guy's lack of self-awareness, you know, he was never, ever going to admit that he was the problem. It was always somebody else's fault. But they write, there's also something else, sadness for himself. It's killing him. It's devastating for him.

I mean, he is a human being you know, and there's at some, this has to have been a part of his life that'll look back on and probably regret ever buying the team,

although he made an obscene amount of money on the investment. But yeah. it's got to be lonely for him. I think he was lonely before, though. It's always been lonely for him. Yeah.

You know? I mean, he buys acquaintances and friends. All right. Anything else from this story? Nothing else for that, boss. Okay. Let's bury him for a while. Not literally, but yes.

Here's the part of the story that I couldn't have cared less about. and I don't think I should care about is the state of the ongoing investigations and lawsuits into him. I don't think any of them affect the team, right? Haven't they settled with all three in terms of the ticket stuff? Yeah, it's the federal criminal probe

that's still going on. Right. Yeah. That doesn't affect the team. All right, my friend, good job. I'll talk to you on Thursday. Okay, boss. Good luck with your appointment today. you. We're not going to talk about Tommy's eye appointment today. All right, I'll talk to you on Thursday.

See you. All right, I'll see you.