The Kevin Sheehan Show - Progress with Trent?

Episode Date: August 20, 2019

Kevin and Thom talked about why all of the former Redskins' players like Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, and Shawn Springs want Dwayne Haskins to sit much of it not his whole rookie season. They got to Jay Gruden indicating that he has communicated recently with Trent Williams. They talked about Zeke Elliott's response to Jerry Jones' saying "Zeke who?" They finished up with some Nats' discussion. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. That's right. Tommy is back by telephone, but he is back. And we're going to get an update on him in a moment. We're going to get to a lot of Redskins today, the Trent Williams comment made by Jay Gruden yesterday. And I think we should also get to Antonio Brown and the Jerry Jones, Zeke Elliott. showdown. We'll get to all of that, but Tommy's on the phone. You've missed the last couple of podcasts. You weren't on radio over the weekend. Are you feeling better? You know, this is, this is going to be hard for me because I don't like to talk about this much. I know you don't. But I'm 65 years old, buddy. And for the first time, it really hit me. And I hear you Here's like the sequence of events. We went to the beach for a week. The whole family, you know, like, hell, 28 people in a couple of condos.

And my son, who's 33, was sick while he was at the beach. He was okay, but he was sick. He had a cold. And when he came back, my granddaughter, whose nine was sick. And she was sick, like a kid is sick, but, you know, not that bad. And then it was my turn. and I got sick. And you hear these things, they talk about how, you know,

when you're a certain age, when you get a respiratory infection, a respiratory illness, it hits you harder. I never took it seriously, you know, I mean, but that's what happened. I mean, I have what they had, and I wound up in a hospital with a bronchial infection. I'm okay now, but I was in a hospital for a couple of days. I have the kind of cough that they put you in an iron lung for. It's so deep. But that's the realization.

Well, I was in the hospital. I got a pneumonia vaccine. Oh, God. Only because I thought, Jesus, I don't want to get pneumonia. I read about people who died. I know. At your age. Yes.

Yes. I know this is a stupid thing that. talk about, but I'm being honest. No, well, let me just... The reality of it. Let me just say that you don't like to talk about this stuff, which is why, you know, I left it sort of open-ended. You could have said, I'm fine, let's move on, and I would have moved on, and we didn't

talk about, you know, what we would talk about before. But when I talked to you the other day, I could tell that this really, you know, was a bit of an eye-opener, and you're right. Like, the whole upper-chest thing that can turn into pneumonia, look, that's dangerous for even people younger than you and a lot more dangerous for people that are much older for you. But it is the realization that, you know what, I got to stay healthy.

I can't get these deep coughs and deep colds and end up in the hospital. But you're better now. That's the net of it, right? And they put you probably on, you know me playing doctor here. They probably put you on a ton of antibiotics, right? Well, I'm on antibiotics. I'm on steroids.

I'm on the steroids that made Jerry Lewis all bloated. Is this making you bloated? A little bit. I'm only on it for a couple of days. Right. I'm not on it for weeks at a time. Fred is on. I'm on.

Yeah. And I'm on, you know, I'm on, they change my blood pressure medication. You know, the ironic thing is, is I'm healthier than I've been in here. I know. You know? And it's just, it is an eye-opener. And I'll be fine. The last thing that goes to cough, and it's really hanging on.

Do you think you're going to, in your later years here, have to move to a more favorable year-round climate? No, because I don't have a chronic respiratory problem. Well, you do cough a lot. Like, you've been, over the last year, you are, your healthy, than you've ever been physically more fit than you've been in a long time. But I have noticed that you've had a periodic cough, which of course I diagnosed his asthma, and your doctor said tell him to shut the hell up. Here's what I have.

This may be part of it. The doctor in the hospital changed my blood pressure medicine to a different kind because he said the one I've been taken, which I've been taken for decades, but he said your body can change. You can develop a cough from that one. Okay. That could have been it. So we'll try that and see what happens.

So I'm taking the same doses, but a different kind of medication because the other one sort of encouraged a dry cough. By the way, you know, I mean, I'm so happy that you're out of the hospital and you're getting better and the whole thing. And Tommy's can, you know, you were going to come in today, but you didn't feel like leaving and you wanted to stay home and you didn't sleep well last night, which is perfect, so we can do it by the phone.

But when you mention the steroid, I don't know that you'll remember this because you only typically remember things that are about you and not people that are close to you in your life like I've been over the years. But about, I don't know, five or six years ago when we were doing the show together, I had some sort of like rash that was just incredibly itchy.

And so I was put on a steroids. for a couple of days. And it cleared it up in 48 hours, and then I just stopped taking the steroid, which is not the way you are supposed to stop taking a steroid. No, you got to run. You got to run. It's a sequence that you have to run through. I didn't know that.

For whatever reason, as medically in tune as I typically am, I didn't realize that. And I don't know if you remember this, but I stopped taking it abruptly because the the rash and the whole thing cleared up. And for about a 24-hour period, I thought I was going crazy. Do you remember this? Because I was on the air for one of those days, and I was hyped up, and I was like, oh, my God, what's happening to me? I was borderline psychotic.

I've never felt that way in my life. You don't remember. Again, you remember what happens to you and nobody else. But I remember calling the doctor saying, what the hell? And he's like, oh, you can't just stop taking the steroid. You've got to wean yourself off of it. And I said, well, that would have been a nice thing for you to tell me. You know, because right now I feel like, I mean, I really felt like I was going insane.

It was the weirdest feeling ever. And I was on the air and I remember saying to you, I'm so hyped up right now. I don't know what's going on, but something's not right with me. And it was the coming off the steroid real quickly. I think that's the only time I've taken like steroidal medication other than trying to, you know, pump myself up for weekend or your basketball. Let me just ask you one question. Yeah. Are you the one who's sick?

No. So why are we talking about you? I knew that. I thought you were done talking about you being sick. I'm sorry. I thought you were done. You're right. This is all about you, per usual.

What else do you have to say? Oh, that's all. I mean, like your psychotic episodes, they run together. I can't, I have hard to remember which one it won. That's true. That's true. All right. Since you haven't really weighed in on anything other than on social media,

where despite the heavy cough and the infection and the hospital stay, you've been pretty active on social media. And by the way, I think you've been writing, haven't you? Even though you've been sick, you've written here recently. Yeah, yeah. Well, I could sit in a chair and put two words together. You know, it's not rocket science. Like I always tell people, if it was hard, I wouldn't be doing it.

No, you look for the easiest path to anywhere. All right, so a couple of things to get to. Before we get to, I think an interesting comment from Jay Gruden yesterday about Trent Williams, which we'll get to. and I also want to get to the Zeke Elliott thing and the Antonio Brown and get your thoughts. But you've been out essentially, I don't think we've talked since now a week and a half or whatever. So it's been two preseason games so far. What do you think so far of this football team with still a holdout left tackle and two preseason games in the books?

Well, I think they're going to waste a pretty good defense, or at least a really good defensive front. You know what the difference is between last year and this year? Besides, look, we made fun of Alex Smith, I mean, because he was limited offensively. But Alex Smith was going to run that offense better than Simba is or Case Keenham is. Simba, for those that don't know is Dwayne Haskins. It's his D-8-H-Simba. What is the – I don't even know what the whole Twitter handle is. for him.

DH underscore Simba 7. It has something to do with the Lion King. Is that true or not? You don't know that. Yes. No. No, it's it. It is.

Okay. Yes, it's true. And the Trent Williams fiasco is going to hurt, not just the quarterbacks, but the running game as well. We talked about this before. Adrian Peterson is in financial trouble, and this is going to wind up costing and him money, and he's not going to be happy about it. All that said, part of the formula last year, why they were successful early on,

was they had pretty good special teams play, which put them in good positions a lot of times, you know, to take over the ball. They had good special teams play. Their special teams stink, it seems like. They've been horrible so far. And if their special teams are like the special teams of old, then you are looking at, out of four and twelve season if you're lucky. You know, you have in the past rooted for them, even though it would probably be more

beneficial for all of us if they won in one big. You have not rooted for them to do well because you just don't like them in the whole thing, and that's fine. And by the way, that's not true. It is true. No, it's not. You don't. It's not true.

I don't care about them. Okay. You care enough to relish in their dysfunction. This is... Well, I care enough to be right. Well, you haven't been wrong about it. I'm not suggesting you've been wrong about it. But the whole special teams in preseason,

there's nothing that translates into the regular season unless it's coaching. None of these players that play these special teams plays are going to play them in the regular... or very few are going to play in the regular season. So that shouldn't be your reason right now. for 4 and 12. Okay. Whatever you say. Whatever you say, boss.

Yeah. So what do you think of Haskins so far? I think he's shown you enough to think, well, he can play quarterback in the NFL. I mean, he doesn't seem like he can't physically play the position. I think it's very hard to judge him because he's very limited by the offensive. around him. He wasn't the best rookie quarterback on the field against the Bengals. Ryan, what's his name, Ryan Finley?

Ryan Finley was great. Yeah, he looked really good. He was terrific. But there's no reason to think, oh, we drafted the wrong guy. I haven't seen that yet. Again, my issues with Dwayne Haskins are exterior. How will the Redskins will screw him up, and what seems to be an overbearing father who could also come into play as well. As far as the kids' ability,

I haven't seen anything to think, well, this guy's, this guy's a bus. No, I've seen, what I've seen shows me that he can probably play quarterback in this league under the right circumstances. So what is your thought? Because the debate right now is when, especially with Colt McCoy, your guy apparently not being recovered from the leg injury, and more likely than not, not going to be available to start early in the season. At least based on what Jay said the other day, things could change dramatically. But if it's a two-horse race right now between Keenham and Haskins, you know, every single former player, Joe Thysman, Clinton Portis, Fred Smoot,

I had Santana on the show yesterday, I had Sean Springs on the radio show this morning. None of them want them to play early. Some of them don't want them to play at all in the first year. What do you think? Well, I don't know if we've talked about this since it's been a long time since I was on. But for one thing, Sean Springs is his guy. Yeah, no, he's his mentor. Yeah.

Right. All this seems like a concerted message by these guys. I mean, it's almost like they're all on the same team with the same message. And they're trying to deliver a message. and I can't figure out if it's from the owner to the fans to prepare them for this kid not playing this year because fans may be looking forward to them or from the coaching staff to the owner to say, look, you need to back off any idea to play this kid because that's not the best thing for him. It seems like, I mean, with Clinton, look, I like Clinton, but, you know, in the,

in his comments after the game last week when he did interviews, he was pretty adamant about not playing that kid, at least until after New England leaves. And it just seems like they're trying to tell somebody you need to back off your expectations, whether it's the fans or the owner. Yeah, I don't know where it's coming from. I think context changes everything,

meaning, you know, if Colts not already and case stinks or case gets hurt, then there's not going to be a choice. You're going to have to put them in. And I also, here's one of the things I don't understand is if the context is two and five or one and four, and the quarterbacking is terrible, why wouldn't you just go to him then? Well, Sean Spring said to me this morning, and he was brutally honest. He's like, have you seen the supporting cast? He's like, no Trent Williams is a killer, and he basically, you know, ripped apart the receivers, saying there's nobody there that scares anybody.

And that is a huge detriment to whomever it is that's playing quarterback. To which I responded, look, when you get picked in the first 15 picks of the draft in the first half, you're typically going to a team that isn't very good around you. But these guys have played in recent years. A lot of them have. Almost all of them did last year. Like everybody last year, Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, and then Jackson, because of injury, and he was picked 32nd. He wasn't in the top half of the first round.

They all played, and they all played early. The year before that, Tribisky and Watson played early. Mahomes sat. He's the exception. Recent years, the trend has been, you get picked in the first round, especially the top half of the first round. You're playing sooner rather than later. Yeah, and you're right. That has been the trend.

And that makes sense. That's not something I'm a big fan of, but that has been the way things have unfolded. Look, I think Clinton was brilliant in these comments when he said after the Cincinnati game, the preseason game, that if you put him out there in those first five games and he looks really bad and they stink up the joint, you have a very volatile fan base that will turn a game. against him real quick. You'll have people tearing off their number seven Haskin jerseys and putting their Thaisman's number seven jerseys back on

in the middle of the Patriots game. And I think he's right. I'm surprised you fell for that. Because Sean Spring said the same thing to me this morning, not in the same words, but essentially the same thing. But I think they're right. No, no, they're not right. They're not right.

Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why. because you don't have a passionate fan base anymore. You don't, and the only thing that's going to make them passionate is the hope that this guy ends up being really good, and you have a fan base that is predisposed to being patient when it comes to this guy. So I believe...

Oh, not now. Not now. If gloves are off. Tommy, if he goes 0 and 5, no one's going to be paying attention anyway. No one's going to be at the games. Nobody's going to be paying attention. They will bury this kid. Nah.

Not anymore. They won't. More so than ever. Why? They're not even, they won't even be at the games. They're going to be barely watching them on television. We saw that the last couple of years. Who's going to be burying him?

I think there's a big risk that you put them out there to make them damaged goods. And then you'll see, then you'll see Haskins and Haskins react to that. And it'll start the ball rolling. Well, can you imagine? We tried to tell them not to put Dwayne out there early. Dwayne wasn't ready. Dwayne's only played one year of college football. We know this from our consumer research with our branding company about what the fans thought.

They wanted them to sit and, and Dan and Bruce, they pushed this thing. And Jay's not a very good coach. There'd be a few columns in that. I really don't buy this at all. I think right now, first of all, let me just say this. If they're bad with Case Keenan or Colt McCoy and they're 2 and 5 and he doesn't play, that's more telling than anything that could happen this year. If he doesn't get in for 8 plus games on a team that's 1 in 7 or 2 and 6 or 2 and 5,

that's more telling than anything. Because even the guys that were true projects, they got in on B.1 and 5, bad teams in their first year. So to me, there's one major red flag for Dwayne Haskins this year, and that is not playing at all on a subpar to bad team. Now, the other red flag could be that he plays, that the team around him is decent, the defense is good, they've got a little bit of a running game, and he's just awful. Like, he can't do it, and it's obvious.

But I would not, personally, I think. you've got to give a guy that rookie year and you got to get him 10 plus you know 11 plus starts to see and with respect to the fan reaction the fan reaction to anything this organization's done recently the only thing that's gotten anybody fired up is not firing Bruce Allen it's the only thing that's generated a response in the last year but do you think they believe that they believe what do you think they believe that the fans base doesn't care anymore. No, they're delusional.

Right. So if they're delusional and they think they don't want to put this guy in a bad light with their passionate fan base, they want to put him in a position that succeed. That's not in the first five games of the year. Well, I don't know that I... I'm all for... If he can play, I'm all for playing him after New England if they've only won two of those... If they're two and three or one and four, and it's clear that... that they're not going anywhere with Haskins, but I'm not putting him in before that Patriots game.

Well, you brought up something different. I disagree with you that the fan base would turn on Haskins if he isn't very good this year. I don't think that that's going to be the reaction. I think at that point, if he wasn't very good, there are going to be so few paying attention that there's not going to be much of a reaction at all. And I think those that continue to hang in there are going to hang in there hoping to see him improve towards the end of the year,

which has happened with a lot of young quarterbacks that start early. They're not very good through the first five, six, seven, eight games. And then if they turn out to be really good, it starts to come in that second half of the season of starts. Now, on your other point, which is them thinking, my point is that they may think something. I just don't think that the fan reaction is going to be what it is. Now, you know how I feel about the schedule. I mean, I just wouldn't even care about it. If he's close to Keenham, if the competition is close, Haskins is starting the opener.

Worst case is you go in with both of them in the opener, and then you plan on Haskins taking over week two. Now, if it's not close and Keenham's clearly better, and you really feel like, you know, Dwayne can't do, what you need him to do on a football field quite yet, fine. Start Keenham for the first few games, regardless of the schedule. But I really think, too, it's incumbent on Jay, like he did with Josh Johnson. If he's not totally ready and if Keenham's not totally ready and the competition's close, then figure out a way where Dwayne can succeed in these first few games where it's not overwhelming.

Because, Tommy, the one thing I will say about the first two games and the results are obviously crazy because he's playing without starters against guys that aren't starters. I want to see him play Thursday night against starters with starters. But the one thing that has really stuck out to me is that he is absolutely up to the occasion. He feels like he belongs. He carries himself with a lot of confidence, a lot of belief. And I don't think a lot of adversity is going to make him go cower in a corner. I don't see that with him.

But it's the people around him that may force him to cower in a corner. Again, I think the kid will probably be okay. I want to switch gears for a second because this is far more your expertise than mine. And I just may be shooting in the dark here. But what's the track record of Ohio State quarterbacks in the league? Not great. Ohio State quarterbacks in the league, not great. No, no, I mean, going back to, you know, the beginning with the gambler.

Why am I blanking on his name? Arch Leicester. Arch Leicester, was turned out to, you know, obviously had major personnel problems, you know, personal problems. But over the years, I mean, recently. No, recently, like a guy like, you know, Bobby Hoing, you know, has been in the league. you know, Troy Smith hasn't really played, and Troy Smith was a Heisman trophy winner. Terrell Pryor. Well, Terrell Pryor, didn't even get a chance to play quarterback in the league. So the answer is, you know, not great. Although I will tell you this, that the quarterback they're going to have play for them this year, Justin Fields.

It's probably going to end up being a dynamic pro quarterback in a Deshaun Watson kind of way. But anyway, yeah, that would be, I can't even think of off the top of my head a star Ohio State quarterback. at the NFL level. Can you, Aaron? No, I can't. No, I can't think of any. And I'm just wondering if that comes into play. I mean, you know, I mean, it's something to consider, I think. Like I said, I mean, I don't watch as much college football, obviously, as you do. So I can't really make any blanket statements.

But there were guys he played behind who didn't make it in the league, right? Well, Braxton Miller wasn't an NFL quarterback. And that's who he played behind primarily. And it was interesting because during that Ohio State season with Braxton Miller, it was clear that Ohio State could not throw the football downfield with Braxton Miller. And it's one of the things they could do with Haskins is they could throw the football down the field. Now, they still threw it sideways a lot last year. You still had a lot of line of scrimmage or behind the line of scrimmage throws.

It's what they do. but I'm not worked up about the school's quarterback history as much. By the way, I wanted to say one thing just to be clear on this with you and with anybody that's listening. I don't know if he's going to be good or not. And a lot of people have said, man, Sheehan, you've sounded more optimistic after these first two preseason games about Dwayne Haskins than you were prior to the draft. I'm actually not any more optimistic and I'm not any more pessimistic about him. I am more interested, given the competitive landscape, and more optimistic, actually, that he should and will play sooner rather than later. That's what I want. I want to see him play this year a lot.

There's no future in Colt McCoy or Case Keenum. These are two dead ends. You're not going to win anything with them this year, and neither one of them is going to be here next year anyway. This is your future, and the moment I'm confident enough that he, we can't do damn. damage to him by putting him out there, he's out there for me. And that goes against what all the former players are saying. Yep. Like I said, I mean, my position is at the very minimum, you wait until New England leaves town,

and then you put him out there. Speaking of Colt McCoy, I'm just praying that he gets to leave Redskins Park alive. He means surviving? I mean, literally, a lot. surviving the operating room out there? Yeah. The training room? The House of Horror, the House of Hells Horrors, that's Redskins Park.

Well, you saw what Jay Gruden said two days ago, right? He essentially admitted that they rushed him back too quickly. Yes. Yes. You know, we've talked about that that was likely what had happened. But I don't know that they had admitted it in the way that Jay admitted it. No. No, they hadn't before.

And that was, that would say, as well-versed as he has become to touting the party line, it's not his nature not to be blunt. Right. And that was a moment of bluntness for him. That was. There was another one yesterday that wasn't, you know, it's totally blunt and direct, but left you thinking a little bit. And I'll get to that in a moment.

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have right now. That's all we can do. We're getting drawn ready. We're getting Penn ready. So we'll go that route. Tread, do you know has he stayed current on the playbook, the plays, all that? Trent's very smart he can handle it Talked Trent yeah Maybe texted texted

Talked maybe yeah Yeah it's just It is what it is right now He's not here So we just got to talk about the people we have He smiled when he said maybe too To John Kimes' question There at the end

You know he's always direct And if he's not direct Usually you can sort of read Between the lines I think what we learn there Is he has communicated with Trent Williams By the way, I learned recently that Dan Snyder has communicated with Trent Williams. I don't know if it was in person or via the phone, but during this holdout.

But do you think, as some reacted, that this indicates that they're making progress because I didn't feel that way listening to this and watching it? No, I mean, it could have been about, look, I would think that Trent Williams and Jay Gruden have a relationship after, you know, like five years. So, and I would think that you can communicate with somebody without talking about the elephant in the room, you know, if you're friends, or if you're friendly. So they may have communicated and they may have joked with each other

because J. Stile is to basically, you know, joke to get at something. But I don't see any breakthrough here. in terms of what Jay said. I think this is one of the areas where it is important for the owner to be involved in getting Trent Williams back if that's a possibility. Do we think it's any more of a possibility than it was before? I don't. I don't.

And I really, in thinking about this over the last week, because we haven't talked about it in a while. They just have to move on. They've got to put them on the trade block. They've got to make it clear that they are interested in trading them. They don't have to do it today. They don't have to do it tomorrow. If they're patient, I think they can get a very good deal.

They could get a really lucrative package, I think, you know, depending on the timing. Context is everything in these trades. Teams get desperate, especially teams that think that they can win and they lose an offensive lineman. I'd wait until the regular season in this. the trade deadline. That could be where they get the best offer. But you know what? He's not the difference, Tommy, between 11 and 5 and 5 and 11 or 10 and 6 and 6. He never has been.

You know, this is a guy that has played, this is a guy who has played now over the last two seasons. Hold on. I had this up a second ago. Over the last two seasons, he's played 23 at about possible 32 games. So he's missed four and a half. half games on average the last two years. And by the way, in other games that he played in, he probably shouldn't have played because he was too hurt. I'm not getting worked up over, we need Trent Williams to win or we need Trent Williams to protect the rookie quarterback. Get Donald Penn ready. You know, try to make an acquisition on your own. See if somebody else is out there that's not Trent Williams, but that you might have to give up a fourth rounder for.

What did they give up for? Well, Penn was a free agent. They didn't give up any. anything for him. They've never won a damn thing with him, not to sound like Doc, but it is true. They haven't won anything with him, and he's not the difference between contending and not contending. I would strike while the iron's hot. He's still perceived to be an elite left tackle at 31 years old, at a very difficult position to find in the league. I've mentioned this to you in the past. I think if they're very, very patient, they could end up getting a first and a or a first and a fourth or two-toes and a fifth, something like that. I think they could.

I hope they're listening. Like it would be so Bruce Allen to be so dug in and so stubborn as to try to win this, you know, confrontation and make him come in and play for the current contract. I agree. I think if they wait in the right situation, they can get a one and something else for Trent at this point. And they haven't won anything really with him. But he is a difference maker when it comes to protecting a rookie quarterback. And I think this is undervalued.

I think he is a difference maker in putting money in Adrian Peterson's wallet. And Adrian Peterson's wallet needs a lot of money. And we've seen Adrian Peterson before. When he's not happy, he will speak out. That's not the organization's problem. I know that. But the collateral damage from that internally could be. Well, Adrian Peterson is not part of their future either.

So if he becomes a problem, you cut him loose. And by the way, I would think considering just the base salary alone in the situation he's in, he's not going to be a problem. He's not going to put that at risk, even though you're probably right. With Trent Williams, he may have been able to earn more. But here's the problem with Trent Williams. He's going to miss four and a half games this year. four and a half.

That's the average of the last two years. Yeah. You're right. You're right. No, I think the move is the traitor. I really do. You're right. It's just that these guys are such morons, Kevin. They just are. Well, they're so... You know, they just...

They're so stubborn. Bruce is. And I guarantee you Bruce is back there going, this is why we're not going to pay him. He signed this contract five years ago. He knew it was top heavy when he signed it. He knew what it would look like at the back. end. He is still the seventh highest paid left tackle in the game at 31 years old, having averaged over the last two years, you know, basically 11 and a half games played, meaning

he's missed four and a half games. We're not paying him anymore. And by the way, I'm not trading them either to give him his wish to move on somewhere else. He's going to come in here, or he's going to sit at home and not collect a paycheck. You know, that's, to me, that's Penny Wise Pound Fulish. And it's not about setting a precedent or a culture for your organization. You know, Trent Williams is an outlier. Ryan Kerrigan's not going to do this next year. One of the reasons is, is Ryan Kerrigan's not Trent Williams? He's not. Right. No, he's not. He's not one of the top six or seven linebackers in the league. No, he isn't. So I hope they trade him. I really, I think this is an opportunity, you know, for them to actually, and again, I don't trust them in their

trade in their evaluations of trades. But if they're patient, you've got multiple teams bidding, which has already been reported, that multiple teams are interested. It's a super important position the left tackle. He's under contract for two more years. Now, maybe he is going to tell his new team, I need a new contract. Well, that would certainly shoot the whole medical thing out of the water. But if you wait and you're patient, you're going to be able to get some real value back for Trent Williams. And If you don't, you're not paying him if he's not in, you know, so you can move on to next year and let him hold out and see how it works out. Yeah.

So I wanted to get to this Zeke Elliott thing. Did you follow this story about what Jerry Jones said about Zeke Elliott during the preseason game on Saturday night? Yeah, Zeke who? Yeah. So I'll play the sound bite here in a moment. But the backdrop for it is the Cowboys are playing the Rams Saturday night. That's a national television game. They beat the Rams in the preseason.

for whatever that's worth. But their rookie running back, Tony Pollard, who was a fourth-round pick out of Memphis, rushed for 42 yards on five carries, had a touchdown as well. And after the game with Ezekiel Elliott still holding out, wanting the new contract, his contract situation is he's in year four of the rookie deal. The Cowboys have picked up the option for next year, which is what they're able to do. But he wants a bigger deal. So when asked about the Pollard game, the fourth round rookie from Memphis. This is what Jerry Jones said. Is Paula your best negotiated with Zee?

Who? Pollard. Now Zika. So that's what it was. Zek who, and then everybody's laughing. And then for those that missed it, yesterday, Zeke Elliott's agent, Rocky Arsenal,

said, quote, I didn't think it was funny and neither did Zeke. We actually thought it was disrespectful, closed quote. So I'm watching. a little while ago on first take, because I've got it on in here in the studio, and the headline that Stephen A. and Max Kellerman are talking about,

does Jerry O. Zique an apology? I'll let you answer that first. You know, this is the part, you know, I mean, I'm sure we all fantasize what kind of sports owners we would be if we ever owned a team. And this would be my failure, is I would tell of so many guys that go stick it where the sun doesn't shine who did stuff like this, I'd probably be bad at it. And given the patience and what I've had to deal with with Zeke Elliott and the Cowboys over the years to sit there and have done that to say that I insulted him and I needed to apologize to him, I'm telling you, there'd be a big part of me that says, buddy, you better

find a place on the bench that's nice and comfortable where you got a good view of the game because you ain't seen the field. And I know that would be self-destructive. But this is absurd. This guy, I mean, to say that they owe him anything after what he's put them through early in his career, now they need him.

You know, Tony Pollard ain't going to do it. They need him. And they may have to, you know, Jerry may have to do something God only knows what it is. But this wouldn't fly with me. This is why I'd probably be a bad owner. This is why I would tell, you know, guys like Kishon Johnson and Antonio Brown and other headaches, see, take a hike.

Yeah. You know, I'll find somebody else. I would say worse. This one, this one angers me so much. And I know, and you know this, that I've probably been pro-management more than pro-player over the year. years, but I'm not a Jerry Jones fan, but you hit the nail on the head. This is one that is revealing of someone's true colors. You know, Jerry Jones paid $2 million out of his own pocket for the legal fees incurred by Elliott in fighting the six-game suspension back in 2017 for conduct

detrimental. Jerry Jones stuck his neck out for this guy at a, at the height of the Me Too movement with a domestic violence allegation with his ex-girlfriend. By the way, multiple domestic violence incidents with his ex-girlfriend. Now, after a year-long investigation, he was never charged, he wasn't convicted by the legal system. And the league, you know, after a year-long investigation into the allegations, said, you know, even though he wasn't criminally charged, they essentially found substantial and persuasive evidence

supporting that he did engage in physical violence against his Tiffany Thompson, the ex-girlfriend, on multiple occasions. And there was Jerry, not only sticking up for him, unwavering support, but backing it up with his own money to pay the legal fees. As an employee, it's hard to ask for much more than what Jones did for Zeke Elliott. Under pressure, public scrutiny. Now, he condemned domestic violence. All the while, though, standing next to this player saying, I believe him and putting his reputation at risk. This is so selfish. By the way, the comment was an offhanded tongue-in-cheek meant to be funny comment.

It wasn't disrespectful. Like get a sense of humor, but beyond that, even if it was a serious comment, you know, that is one where, you know, agents Tommy have a responsibility first to get really good deals for their clients. But the best agents, and I don't know how many of them there are. I mean, you saw Drew Rosenhaus apologizing or saying that Antonio Brown walking out of practice the other day wasn't a big deal. I think it's a big deal to anybody. But a really good agent keeps their clients from looking dumb, petty, immature, and selfish. And that response from the agent speaking on behalf of Elliot totally missed the mark and made him look selfish.

And my reaction would have been what yours was. I would have called Zeke Elliott up. I wouldn't even have called his agent and said, disrespectful, do you know what I did for you and where I put my ass on the line for you and where I put my wallet on the line for you? Nobody was more supportive of you during these incidents. And you're going to take a shot at me publicly to hell with you. There's no chance I'm giving you a contract extension.

You can sit for the next two years. I do the same thing. And by the way, I think his ass would be in, the next week and saying fine. And by the way, he does deserve more money. But it's a risk to pay this dude money. He's already been suspended six games. And he just got cuffed like in May at some festival for forearming a security guard.

So like the Levi-on-Bel situation, it doesn't matter how great you are to give a long-term contract extension to a guy that's already been suspended six games. And oh, by the way, the next one could be a ban for life. if it's domestic violence-related. Like, that is really lacking in self-awareness, and by the way, a sense of humor. But, you know, that said, most of these owners let these guys get away with it.

So there must be something, it must be once you get in that seat, once you own that team, you learn to live with, I think, the daily insults you probably get as an owner. owner from players. Probably daily. This stuff like this goes on, that you're thinking to yourself, God, I'd love to bury this guy, but I need this guy.

And most of these owners go along with it. I mean, look, I mean, I know Pittsburgh said goodbye to Levi-on-Bell and say goodbye to Antonio Brown. But I'm sure while Antonio Brown was there, he was a major pain in the ass. Of course. And they lived with it. You know, I mean, I'm not the kind of guy who would live with it. And that might not work.

Well, you know what? It works for Bill Belichick. You know, it does work for him. And we can say what we want about the Steelers organization recently. But for the most part, they've won more than they've lost, you know, with tending to sort of err on the side of more discipline than less. I'm with you. This one really, really missed the mark.

Like that's an agent that has. no self-awareness for him or his client. I mean, you can't, everybody knows Zechiel Elliott's recent history, and everybody knows what Jerry Jones did for him and how he went to bat for him at a time where it wasn't comfortable for him to do that. You know, so you've got to take this situation and you've got to say, look, first of all, I mean, I don't think he was being super serious about it, you know, Ziku. Come on, that's a bit of a joke. But you know, if you took it in a very sensitive way, you have to check yourself before you respond with disrespectful. There's nothing.

Listen. You say the agent needs to be more self-aware. I mean, the only person the agent needs to be self-aware to is his client. And if he's got a client screaming at him on the phone about this, he's got to respond for the client. and not necessarily in what's the client's best interest, but what the client wants. I mean, that's how you survive as an age. Yeah, but you know what?

That's true, and I'm sure in these situations, especially when it's a big client, you know, you basically have to suck it up, swallow hard and do what your client wants. But I'm sitting there listening to the Drew Rosenhouse thing yesterday on Antonio Brown when he essentially, and I'm paraphrasing, said, oh, by the way, the fact that he walked out on his team, not a big deal. If I'm a parent of, let's just say, a college football player who's going to get drafted next year,

I'm not letting my kids sign with Drew Rosenhaus based on that comment. You know, I'm not, and I'm not letting my kid sign with Rocky Arsenal based on the comment that he made to Jerry Jones. Like, I want somebody who is going to, now, first of all, every situation is different. and I would hope that I have instilled in my own kids the ability to be somewhat self-aware and how to handle these things in the right way. But they are still 22, 23, 24 years old. I want an agent that's going to be there to negotiate a great deal and also be a good influence, you know, within the environment that is, you know, this league.

It's a crazy league. But that's just, you've got to talk your client out of that. We're not putting that quote out. But when you get the guys like a true Rosenhouse, when you get the histrionics that they do, how they stand there and make these ridiculous public comment in light of common sense, these are the guys who get the lunatic players who want to make contact. It's true. The player saying, I want that guy.

That's the guy. I want that guy in my driveway holding press conferences, you know, saying how, how, great I am because I am great and no one's listening to me. They get the big contract, not the rookie contract. It's true. It is true. I mean, you know, it's sometimes these very charismatic, very good communicating attorneys and agents get the big clients and they're just as crazy as their clients in some situations. Yeah. You know, just thinking back to like OJ's whole team from

Shapiro to Dershowitz to F. Lee Bailey to Cochran. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, but anyway, the Antonio Brown thing's hysterical. Like, the only thing, and I know you probably are really upset that somehow the Redskins couldn't have pulled off that trade and been in the middle of this. Think about that. Think about that and the Trent Williams thing going on at the same time. That would have been an explosion of the aura of self-destruction. I don't even know what to have called that if all that would have happened, but it didn't happen. Redskins have enough to deal with. They don't need to worry about Antonio Brown.

But you're right. You're right. I mean, they were in the Antonio Brown hunt, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, Adam Schaefter had reported that the Redskins were one of the teams that had expressed interest. but he didn't want to play for the Redskins or Bills. He wanted to play for the Raiders. So thankfully, the Redskins dysfunction is at such a high level that even the Raiders look good to crazy wide receivers.

Here's the thing, and I was listening to Doc talk about this yesterday, and he's so, so spot on with this. This is the perfect example until the Steelers sort of stepped in, of a guy that just has continued to get away with everything and never been told, no, that's not what you do. And he doesn't follow the rules. Like, you know, it had to be pretty clear when he went into this cryotherapy

that there are certain kind of shoes or socks or whatever you've got to put on before you go in there. But he's not coachable. He doesn't listen. He's got all the answers and he gets his feet burned to the point where they may never be the same again. And then this helmet thing. It's like these new helmet rules are apparently good for 99.9% of the league.

Brady had a problem with his. and I think there have been a couple of other players, but they're moving forward without him. But no, this guy cannot take no for an answer. These are rules that must be followed, and he apparently can't follow them. And now apparently there's another lawsuit heading in his direction. Did you see the Mayock press conference when he said, you know, it's time for him to be all in or all out? Yeah, that was Grudy. Mayok was talking for Grudy.

Probably. That's all John. rude in there. Although Mayox's a little bit full of himself too. I've been watching this hard knocks a little bit. But yeah, he's filed a new grievance now on the helmet thing. It would be hysterical if ultimately, I mean, this is the guy who burned his feet in cryotherapy and then got into a hot air balloon to arrive at training camp, a training camp that he has not even really participated in. Have you ever done cryotherapy? Never. But I've heard, I've heard. I, I mean, I know, I can tell you that I probably would benefit from really, you know, a cryotherapy session, you know, because it's a total anti-inflammation thing, right?

Yeah. I think the redskins, I think the redskins are really into it. They are. Why? Have you done it? They are. No, I've never done it. Yeah, you shouldn't do it with the cough right now.

No. I've never, I've never done it. Cryotherapy. No, not quite. All right. I'm lucky I cut my own toe nails. Yeah, well, it might be hard at times. All right.

Lastly, the Nats. How about this offensive explosion? 43 runs in three games, and they lost one of the games, the Saturday night game. But, you know, I guess we could start with Doolittle and the fact that he was overused for most of the season, and now they got a problem there. but I like Hudson and I like Strickland. And with that offense, this is a dangerous team right now.

I know people are concerned about closer and some of the bullpen issues. They appear to be a dangerous team to me right now. They are. They are a dangerous team. This team could wind up with 90 wins. I know. And that's unbelievable, given where they were. And again, I'm sorry to be this guy, and I'm not speaking for the whole fan base.

but after Saturday nights lost and Dave Martinez has mismanaged too little there's no getting around it I mean he has mismanaged him so he's made mistakes when it comes to that but every time they make a mistake somebody wants to fire him

I mean that the move is either you're right or you're fired and there's no in between I mean what he's how he's managed to keep this team to show up on Sunday and to do what they did after they've lost Saturday night? Yeah, no, that's good point. It's just stunning.

They have been the most resilient team in the history of this franchise, and it's not even close. They have rebounded from devastating losses time after time after time again, and you have to give the manager some of the credit for that. And in the notion that people, this football mentality, oh, we've lost the game, we mismatched the game, we made some stupid mistakes, fire the guy. I mean, it's insane. It's a sickening reaction. It makes me sick sometimes to cover baseball and see that kind of reaction from fans. You've got to fire the guy and replace him with who?

And look, I was one of the first ones to talk about how cheap the learners are when it comes to paying managers. And now that's kind of the narrative. Well, guess what? Nobody pays managers anymore. No, that's true. Dave Martinez makes more than Joey Corey, who, uh, Cora, who managed the world champions last year. So, look, I think, I think, I think, I think they are a dangerous team. I think they're the most resilient team they've ever had.

I think their fortunes, though, in postseason, will rely on the health of Max Scherzer. I mean, that said, the pitching that they've gotten from guys who have stepped in like Ross and Fettie and you can track their success, their comeback to the comeback of Annas Belf-Sanchez. If you go back to his starts when he was at his worst and when he turned it around, that's when the team turned it around. I mean, this last start he had wasn't very good. But up until then, he's been, arguably, he's been their best starter for six innings. So, I mean, I give them a lot of credit.

I think they're a lot of fun to watch. I think it's, you know, if fans would just get their heads out of their football behinds, this is some of the most fun that we've seen from this team. And it's since the 2012 season that came out of nowhere. And I think they're going to be in the hunt. right through the end. The Saturday night thing, I was not watching it live.

I was actually up in your old neck of the woods in Columbia at a concert, but I was following it on my phone. And then I saw the highlights at the end when I got home that night. Actually, the game was still going on when I got home. I can't believe, and you're right, you know, he's done an incredible job. I still can't believe that he left Doolittle in there after Doolittle. I know. Three home runs and a double in ten.

pitches in 10 pitches. And then Thames nearly knocked it out of the park too when he let him pitch to him. I mean, it was really, it was such a bloodbath in such a short period of time. Maybe he was just shocked by the whole thing too because it happened so quickly. But yeah, I don't. I know. And look, there's always a dynamic between player and manager of loyalty that drives fans nuts. And I understand that.

and Bosn wrote about this. Sometimes the manager has to basically be the bad guy in a situation like this. I mean, Dave Martinez has been there long enough that he should have built relationships with everybody in that clubhouse at this point, that if he has to beat a bad guy sometimes and take the ball from a guy who won't be happy about it, he's going to have to do it. Look, this was one of Dusty Baker's downfalls in the postseason with the Natch was sticking with Jason Worth too long in the playoffs. But Dusty said that, you know, basically I was Jason Worth.

You know, they build these relationships with veterans and they're loyal to these guys. And to give up on a guy is a perception of loyalty. For fans, it's a perception of trying to win the game. And I understand that. I'm not defending what he did with Sean Doolittle. There's no real defense of it. that we know of. You can't defend the way he managed. But the other stuff, having this team

ready to play with the right frame of mind, which is 75% of that job, he's spot on there. Yeah. Well, look, the net of it is they have gone 49 and 25 since the start, the 19 and 31 start that had everybody, including Max Scherz, are getting traded and everybody getting fired. and really right now there's as good as anybody minus the Dodgers and Astros in baseball and maybe the Yankees. And it would be exciting to see a one-game wild card

but what's even more exciting before you get there is that you're going to have for the first time since baseball came back here in 2005 games in late August, which we're in now, and in September, that are going to be massive. I mean, you've got seven left with the Braves. You have a three-game series with the Mets who are still in the wild card race. You've got all those games against Philadelphia.

You've got three against Cleveland at the end of the year where both teams in different leagues could be fighting for either wild card or for division penance. And so I hope the city gets into it. I love baseball this time of year. I love the postseason. And we haven't had a pennant race. I know I've talked about this a lot, but now we are definitely in one. They're in a wild card race.

They're in a division race. And these games with the Braves, the first week in September, and then I think in the middle of the month back at home, these are massive, you know, late season games. And the five against Philadelphia could be huge. And by the way, I'm sure you saw this over the weekend that Bryce Harper has actually really started to heat up a little bit, which he's done at the end of the year, I think, for the last two years.

Yeah, he is heating up. Look, and Mark Zuckerman wrote about this. This is a fun team to watch. And this is a great time to be a baseball fan in this town. Yeah. I don't understand why people have a hard time embracing that. I mean, what we saw this past weekend, win or lose was tremendous.

I mean, tremendously fun. It was great. And we haven't talked for a while because you haven't felt well and you were in hospital and the whole thing. but that series against the Mets up in New York was playoff atmosphere baseball. That was incredible. Those two games that they lost on Friday night and Saturday night. And then you talked about it, you know, the resilience of this team,

and Dave, and Dave Martinez in particular, they came back and somehow played the best game of the series to avoid the sweep when they really needed it on that Sunday. But I... And you know what, Kevin? Kevin. People keep referring to 2015 with the Mets and how that felt. The difference is in 2015, they don't win that game on Sunday.

They don't come back. They start to fold under their own pressure. One thing this team has not shown any inclination to do is to fold under pressure. They'll beat themselves, but that's a different thing than collapsing under their own confidence. I'm sure they think in that dugout that they're in every single game. And Victor Robles is a savage, as Aaron Boone would say, in that box. He is such a tremendous joy to it. Everyone talks about Juan Soto, and the two of them are great.

And the two of them are a testament to Mike Rizzo's resurrection of the Dominican baseball program for the nationals that got buried by Jim Bowdoin's. incompetence and malfeasance back in 2009. These two guys are a result of the rebuilding of the Dominican baseball program. I mean, Robles and Soto. I mean, and they're just great to watch. All right, you got anything else from me? I don't want you to talk anymore.

I want you to go back and rest your voice and get some sleep. I got to go in the cryogenic chamber. All right, good. All right, thanks for doing this. We'll talk later in the week. Feel better. All right, boss. All right, that'll be three, two, one.

All right, that'll wrap it up for the day. Good to hear from Tommy, and he is feeling much better, which is great. Remember the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast presented by Stamps.com. Tell people about it. Also on iTunes and any other platform that you might be using to listen to us, subscribe. It's free, and it's better for us if you subscribe to it. Also, rate it and review it. Write a review.

If you haven't done it, that helps us as well. Let people know also it's available at the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. Tomorrow, no podcast, Thursday back. For those of you who have complained that we're not doing one every day, I told you that in the month of August we were going to take some days off. If I hadn't been doing radio, I was taking vacation this week, and I would have been off the entire week anyway. But we'll do shows two or three a week.

Certainly we're going to do one Thursday and Friday this week with the preseason game. and then post-Labor Day will be back to our five shows a week. All right, have a great day back on Thursday.