The Kevin Sheehan Show - Quinn Intro + Kingsbury

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

Kevin opened with thoughts on the Dan Quinn introductory press conference. After that, Wisconsin OC Phil Longo, a good friend of Kliff Kingsbury, jumped on to talk about Kingsbury coming to DC. Kevin finished up the show talking about Albert Breer's in-depth story on how and why Washington hired Dan Quinn.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. There is nothing. I enjoy more than doing hard shit with good people. And these guys here, there's some really good people. And I cannot wait to get it rocking here.

I can't wait. And so we'll hit the ground running. There's lots to do. But I want to let you know, man, I've been waiting on this moment. And so to be here with you guys today, I cannot wait to get this thing rocking. So with all that said, let's begin. That was the voice of your new head coach, Dan Quinn earlier today,

and about an hour long or so introductory press conference that included Josh Harris and Adam Peters, but was mostly about Dan Quinn. The show, as always, is presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to WindowNation.com for new windows. guest on the show today, and it's a good one. Phil Longo, the offensive coordinator at Wisconsin, who previously was the offensive coordinator at North Carolina and coached Sam Howell and Drake May. He's going to be on the show with me because he is very good friends with Washington's new offensive coordinator, Cliff Kingsbury. He's got a lot of respect for Cliff, has known him for

many years, you'll hear what Phil Longo believes Cliff Kingsbury will be in his second go-round in the NFL. So, Dan Quinn introduced today. Call me impressed. A, I thought he was incredibly humble, self-aware, just aware in general overall. He did say something to start the press conference that was just slightly worrisome. This is what he said. just as he got started after Josh Harris and Adam Peters had spoken, he said this. Spoiler, you'll hear me say often, be where your feet are. So that was a Ron Rivera line, as many of you know. That was a go-to for Ron Rivera, one of the many idioms or cliches that Ron would spit out from time to time over the four years that he was here.

and when I heard Be Where Your Feet Are I know that there were people in that room looking at each other saying Oh no, here we go again But it got much better from that point on And really that wasn't bad anyway I mean he doesn't know that that's

One of the things that Ron Rivera leaned on over the four years And he shouldn't care that it was Something that Ron Rivera said a lot over the last four years years. These introductory press conferences, they can be head fakes. They can be. I mean, I think you can certainly decipher one's ability to communicate, but even that can be a little bit misleading because there are nerves. There's anxiety on a day like today. You could kind of sense it with Josh Harris and Adam Peters, not so much with Dan Quinn, but these can be head fakes with respect to

observations. I mean, we all, I'm sure, think of ourselves at times as keen observers of the human condition and we're looking for clues that say, oh, this is going to be great or this is going to be awful. But again, sometimes these introductions can be a bit misleading. But I'll just tell you how I felt after listening to primarily Dan Quinn today, because Josh Harris and Adam Peters were supporting players in this press conference. I was really impressed. I came away thinking a couple of things in particular. Number one, he's honest. Number two, he's very excited to be here. Number three, he's very self-aware. He referred to how often he thinks and has thought about getting this opportunity again to coach and how much he spent in terms of time reviewing the Atlanta experience.

I found him to just be generally aware and more conversational in his answers, which I prefer. It's not everybody's preference because sometimes you can get a long-winded, winding, seemingly going nowhere answer. But on a day like today, I don't think anybody cares. But he's not scripted at all. That's obvious. And I prefer that. I think sometimes when someone is being more conversational, you get more of who that person is versus when it's scripted.

And I kind of came away thinking of him as really honest, really genuine, zero political ability. That was something that was noticeable in Ron right from the jump. You know, someone who kind of cares about certain things that they shouldn't care about. He cares about football. And he answered some questions that we wanted answers to, like the Air Force. Eric Bienme question, like the calling plays question. He's not going to call defensive plays. Joe Witt, Jr. is going to do that as the defensive coordinator. As far as Eric Bianney goes, you'll hear what he said. I'll play that for you coming up. But I took away one thing,

perhaps more than any other. And it was the fit between Quinn and Peters as it relates to the kind of football team that they want to have. You know, when Josh Harris and Adam, Peters held the Peters introductory press conference. We heard from them what they were looking for in a head coach. Leadership won, but this shared or aligned vision that they talked about. And I think what was at least on day one evident to me is that as of now, subject to change, there is an aligned vision between Quinn and Peters. And there was one thing that stood out to me because it became a bit of a theme during the press conference, and that is the kind of team they want on the field, and it doesn't deal with scheme, it doesn't deal with, you know, plays. It deals with

certain player traits that they are both in aligned vision on. I'm going to play some of that sound for you. I took pieces of many answers because it was repeated several times, and I thought the best way to do it was to take pieces of several answers and put them together here. And so you're going to hear right now what I thought was a major takeaway from this press conference and a bit of a theme from the press conference. And you'll hear both Dan Quinn and Adam Peters talk about the kind of team and really specifically the kind of players they want. We want really tough, competitive-ass guys that are going to absolutely go for it. That's the trait. That's the secret sauce. And the more people we have on that, you're going to hear us

see competition, talk competition at every corner. And that's what these elite NFL players are. They grew up their whole life competing. So like, why would we not put them into anything other than this like competitive cauldron to roll? And so that's what we plan on doing over and over and over again. It's that identity, that play style that we're looking for that when you're watching the, we call it the silent tape, when you're watching on TV and you turn the volume down. You just see how fast and physical and aggressive you are on both sides of the ball, finishers, that type of style is what you're looking for. And whether it's 4334, however you want to talk wide zone, any type of offense,

it's finding those types of guys that, and it's really the type of people that we want to bring in the building, and people who are going to give it all for us on the field. So really throughout the whole process, it's like we're speaking the same language, which is like I'm interviewing almost a person just like me who thinks the same way about football. So I think that would answer your question, hopefully. That's what we heard from both gentlemen, Dan Quinn and Adam Peters, multiple times during this press conference, this shared vision of what they want to see on the field.

You heard Adam Peters saying, quote, we call it the silent tape. When you watch it on TV and you turn the volume down, you just see how fast and physical and aggressive you are on both sides of the ball. all finishers. That type of style is what you're looking for. And when he said that, it just reminds me of what they've gotten in San Francisco. I've talked about it several times over the last couple of years. I can't remember a team that is harder to tackle than the 49ers that is faster and more ferocious at times on defense than the 49ers have been in recent years. The Cowboys, you could say that at times about them defensively, although really they played small ball at times this year and weren't super physical up front.

But that shared vision really, I think of Debo Samuel and Kittle and McCaffrey. I mean, these dudes are impossible to tackle. And when you heard him say finishers, I think I could identify in my own mind when he was talking Adam Peters about the point. players that he envisions. And it sounds like Dan Quinn has that same vision. That's where it starts, man. Finding players like those guys, Debo Samuel wasn't a first rounder. George Gittle wasn't a first rounder. You know, Christian McCaffrey came via trade, but they've got just badass, ferocious competitors on the San Francisco 49ers team. So that's where Adam Peters is coming from. Defensively, the Cowboys have been fast for sure, and they have hit

and tackled well for sure. I think, you know, Dan Quinn probably would have preferred more bulk, more strength, more physicality up front against the run this year. But that is something that kind of struck me during this press conference. That was a big takeaway for me. How many times they mentioned in the same way in terms of their descriptions what they're looking for in a player. There was one more as it relates to this. Scott Abraham from Channel 7 asked Dan Quinn about kind of the identity of a Dan Quinn football team. What does a Dan Quinn led football team look like? Adjectives. Tell us what it'll look like. I would say if I had to say two right now, it would be explosive and physical.

and physical. And he went into some detail talking about, you know, explosive plays on offense and how important tackling in space, especially in today's game, is on defense. I wanted to play one other answer from Dan Quinn, specific to kind of his overarching thoughts on taking this job.

It was another question asked by Scott Abraham about, you know, whether or not this is a rebuild situation. I thought his answer was interesting. You'll hear the question and answer right here. The word rebuild came up a couple of times during Adams Press conference. Do you view this as a rebuild? And if so, what's the process of going through a rebuild and time frame-wise?

How do you want your team to kind of take shape during this rebuild? Your words, not mine. All right. So I'm really honestly glad that you brought it up. I know it's a big topic. And I would say this is a recalibrate, you know, finding our north again. And that starts, you know, with our identity of our club. So no, you will not hear me say the word rebuild at all.

This is about assessing what we have. How do we add to that? And then how quickly we can accelerate this process together. Now, how do you do that? Connection, staff, off-season, into training camp. and then ultimately putting all these guys to find the best group to help us go play as well as we can, as fast as we can. So there is no timeline on that, but we will push it hard to see how good we can get and how fast we can get. But I see it much more as a recalibration to say, let's find our north, own our identity of how we're going to get it on, and then push hard to reach that.

And like all things, it takes some trust, you know, between teammates, staff, personnel, ownership, But the more connection we have, the faster we'll get there. And there's a lot to get done, but I honestly do not see that word as part of my thinking at all. So much different than it was four years ago when Ron Rivera was talking about five-year plans and putting it in the context of military analogies, et cetera. This guy doesn't want to – he didn't even want to use the word rebuild, he used the word recalibrate. And in today's NFL, you know, it is hard.

hard to get away with some sort of five-year rebuild. Hey, man, give me, you know, give me some time here. We'll be good in 2029. Just trust me. It's not the way it works. You know, you got to show something in the first two to three years when you're a head coach, no matter how patient ownership is. And I think he understands that. And he's got, you know, a clean slate to start with. That doesn't mean it stays clean. But for right now, they've got a chance, certainly with the free agency salary cap space that they have, the draft choices that they have, the few players on the team. He actually mentioned that he certainly is impressed with the defensive tackles and with

some of the speed and playmaking ability at wide receiver. But yeah, that's a guy that's aware. That's a guy that's dealing in reality in today's NFL reality. Nobody gets five years, you know, to just kind of say, hey, we were four and 13. And we got to five and 12. And hey, we're at 6 and 11 in year 3. Look out for year 4 and year 5. No, that's not the way it works.

There were a couple of other things that he said that I wanted you to hear. First of all, he did answer the question, and we now know the fate of Eric Bienami. Dan, Chick Hernandez, WSA 9. You're filling out your staff. You've got Cliff Kingsbury as your OC. What happens now to Eric Bienemy? You know, I had a good visit, Chick. I'm glad that you brought up E.B.

Because I think he's an excellent coach. And so I had a chance to visit with him today. And so we'll continue that dialogue to go. We're not going to work together here. But in this coaching brotherhood, I wanted him to know, man, I really respect the work that he's done. And as coaches, we all stay connected even though we're on different teams. So I wish E.B., nothing but the best. And he'll do a great job.

I was really pumped that he took his shot this year and went for it. And so I've got a lot of respect for it. him. So Eric B. Enemy not going to be a part of the Washington coaching staff. Certainly not a surprise to most of you and certainly anybody that's been paying attention to sort of the larger picture. It's not just, obviously, that the offense wasn't very good and that the quarterback regressed during the course of the season. There was a lot more to it as I think if you've been paying attention, and I think most of us locally have, not so much nationally. Going back to training camp when Ron Rivera said something that he should have never said,

but admitted that players were having issues with Eric Bienemy and coming to him to express those. Look, it was a year ago that they held a press conference to announce Eric Bienemy as the new assistant head coach and offensive coordinator, and it was a press conference more appropriate for a head coach. And in many ways, it was kind of the anointing of the next head coach in that press conference. It was odd, if you recall. But, you know, a lot of people felt that that was what was coming. And I took a lot of heat from several of you, more than several of you, when I just suggested,

hey, you know, there are a couple of red flags on this one, people. I don't know if you're paying attention, but no. Nobody else was interested in Eric Bienemy. It's kind of like the Carson Wentz thing from the summer, the offseason before. It's like, I don't know if you're paying attention to this, but Indianapolis was going to cut him. And, you know, they acted like it was some sort of, you know, incredible trade and some sort of coup. And a lot of fans felt the same way. And a year ago, look, they duped people into believing that Eric Biener me was some type of great get.

Great get. Nobody was interested. Nobody. Baltimore reportedly was going to interview him for the OC position but hired Todd Monkin. And so Washington was the only one that interviewed him and then hired him. I actually still wonder whether or not Ron Rivera was doing Andy Reed a solid. The two of them go way back. Ron Rivera knew this was a lame duck season. I think Andy Reed and the Kansas City Chief Organization, I think that Bianami's course had kind of run out in Kansas City. And Matt Nagy was going to be, as we know, he was going to become the offensive coordinator, and it was going to be kind of awkward that they were going to elevate Nagy over a Super Bowl champion offensive coordinator. But, you know, Mahomes and Nagy are tied at the hip.

In fact, Nagy's been discussed as the coach in waiting in Kansas. Kansas City if and when Andy Reid retires. I wonder if, look, there was some benefit for Ron, too. You know, in the same way that Sam Hal was kind of cover for the disastrous end of the 2022 season, the hiring of Bianami, because so many people had their, you know, blinders on, that was another thing that said, hey, don't look at that Cleveland game. Don't look at the fact that I didn't know we weren't going to the postseason at the end of that Cleveland game or didn't know that we could be eliminated. Look at Sam Hal on that incredible performance. against the Cowboys. We just got Eric Biena me. And it's like, come on, people. We got to be

sharper than that as a fan base. And most of this audience is. And I appreciate that. But, man, some of you, you can't ignore that nobody wanted him last year. And as of the recording of this podcast, nobody's interested in him this year. If those aren't red, flags. I don't know what red flags look like. So there was also the discussion of Cliff Kingsbury and the hiring of Cliff Kingsbury. We haven't talked about that yet on the show, but that was the big news over the weekend. And by the way, the hiring of Joe Witt Jr. to be the defensive coordinator. But Kingsbury, the O.C. hire, was going to be the big one because Dan Quinn's a defensive head coach. And so this is what he said about his relationship with Cliff Kingsbury and why he hired him.

Cliff has always been somebody that I've kept up with years ago. We both coached in college and we first met each other at an award show and just kind of hit it off on that time and then competed against each other. I certainly followed his career, you know, through his time at tech and then into Arizona competing. And so in the same way of why I wanted to hire Kyle years ago, like, he was hard to go against. He would stretch the field horizontally and vertically and going against Cliff those same feelings you had. This is going to be tough matchups, formation, speed, shots down the field, aggressiveness, boldness to go. And so as a coach, you were writing down some names if this is something in your future that said, if I get that shot, this is somebody

I would want to talk to. So by my count, it would appear that, Quinn has faced Kingsbury twice in the NFL. As the head coach of the Falcons in 2019, Atlanta went out to Arizona and lost 34 to 33 against the Kingsbury Cardinals that year, 442 yards of offense for Arizona that day. The Falcons, by the way, missed an extra point late in the game that would have tied it with about a minute 50 to go. And then as the defensive coordinator in Dallas in 2021, the Cowboys and Cardinals faced off late in the season. Both teams were headed towards the playoffs.

And the Cardinals won again, 25 to 22. They won as a six and a half point underdog that day. It was the day after New Year's. It was a big game. You know, the double-header game on Fox in Arizona went into Dallas. They won the game 25, 22, 400 yards of offense on. that day as well. So Kingsbury 2-0 head-to-head against Dan Quinn. Quinn, you know, like Phil Longo, my guest who's coming up, a lot of nice things to say about Kingsbury. As

pretty much most people in college football and in the NFL have respect for Cliff Kingsbury as an offensive brain. That is for sure. Look, the line drawn from Kingsbury to Caleb Williams after this higher because he coached at USC as an advisor last year on offense. I don't think that there's like this lock that he's been brought on to, you know, coach Caleb Williams and Washington's going to do whatever it takes. First of all, it's out of their control of Chicago wants to draft Caleb Williams. They're going to draft him. And secondly, we don't know what Cliff Kingsbury thinks of Caleb Williams.

We don't know what Cliff Kingsbury thinks of Jaden Daniels or Drake May. You know, he'll know a lot about Drake May because of his relationship with Phil Longo, who's coming up. But certainly he will have information on Williams, for sure, that, you know, they'll be able to trust implicitly because he was there with him this past year. One last piece of sound from the Quinn Peters, Josh Harris press conference that I want to play, because this one kind of made me laugh a little bit because I think it's bullshit. You'll hear our good friend, Ben Standing, ask a question about quarterback. Listen to what Adam Peters says. For you and Adam, obviously quarterback is such an important position in this sport.

You guys may have the opportunity to draft one in the first round, and Sam Hal is here as well. How much of your conversations were about what happened at quarterback and how important is Cliff to whatever it is you guys plan to do with that position? I'll take that one. We just got started, Ben, so we haven't even had discussions yet as the staff with that. Obviously, it's the most important position on the field, and we're going to put a lot of time into it. But as of now, we haven't even gotten starting on that one. Sure, Adam Peters. You haven't talked about quarterback.

You've only been there for about three weeks. Why would you have talked about quarterback at this point? Of course, he shouldn't talk about quarterback. I have no problem with him being evasive. a couple of weeks ago during that introductory press conference with Josh Harris. It would be a competitive disadvantage to reveal anything. But of course they've talked about quarterback. And even if he was being specific to the inclusion of Dan Quinn in the conversation,

you don't think it came up in the interviews, you don't think it's come up since they hired Dan Quinn. Of course it has. Two other quick things before we get to my conversation with Phil Longo, which I think you're going to enjoy. Rate us and review us, if you haven't done that. It's so big for us, and many of you did it last week, and we had so many listeners last week. The newsy week that was last week is big for us, and that's why I've been pushing the ratings and reviews even more the last couple of days, because the audience size has increased because of the hiring of Dan Quinn, because of now the hiring of Cliff Kingsbury and Joe Whit Jr., etc. but it really means something for us when you rate us and review us advertisers look at the numbers how many people are listening to the podcast and then they look at the ratings and the reviews you

know how many reviews do you have what's the average rating because that is a reflection of the interest from the audience that's listening the loyalty of the audience that's listening and that means not as much, but almost as much as the audience size. So even if you pause me right now for 30 seconds to rate us five stars and write a quick one to two sentence review, it's much appreciated. Also, I just wanted to say thank you to all of you that came out Friday night in Bethesda. It was really nice to meet so many of you for the first time, to see so many of you that I haven't seen in forever.

I know the event got a bit unwieldy at times with so many of us on stage. The event was sold out. There were 500 people there for the two radio stations together. But the time after the show, when I had a chance to meet so many of you, I just enjoyed that. And it reminded me that we should do it more often. I got a chance to meet, you know, Ian for the first time. one of the more polarizing callers to the radio show over the years, a thoughtful one, even when he's wrong.

But Ian, it was great to meet you. Skip, so glad to meet you. I mean, I've always thought that Skip, who's called for so many years, was probably just a really good guy. He works at the Bethesda Theater, and you were every bit the gentleman that I've always thought you were from afar. It was great to see the incomparable CJ again. Tim, I mean, he came from Indianapolis. Are you kidding me? It meant a lot. It really was an enjoyable night. We should do it again soon.

Thank you, though, for coming out. Really, really was a nice night. All right, up next, you're going to hear what Phil Longo thinks about his friend Cliff Kingsbury. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Window Nation. Window Nation wants to help those of you with older windows that are fighting the frigid drafts coming through those windows during these cold days. Now, it's going to be milder this week, then it turns colder mid-next week and probably stays that way until March. Your heating bills are much higher than they should be if you've got older windows.

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If you've been thinking about new windows, do me a favor. at least give them a chance to give you a bid. Go ahead and shop it if you want. I don't think you'll find a better company with a better product for a better price. 86690 Nation, windonation.com. Jumping on with us right now is Phil Longo, one of the best offensive coordinators in college football. We've had Phil on the show before. He was the OC in Chapel Hill for Mack Brown for four seasons where he coached Sam Hal, also Coach, Drake May, but the reason we've had Phil on the show previously, it was to discuss Sam Hal. He's currently the OC at Wisconsin for Luke Fickle. The reason I reached out to Phil Longo today is Phil Longo is friends with Cliff Kingsbury. They've known each other forever going back to the Mike Leach days in Texas at Texas Tech. And I guess, coach, that's where I would start with you. just give us all kind of the background of the relationship that you have had with Cliff Kingsbury for many years.

I initially met Cliff when he was a quarterback at Texas Tech 4, Mike Leach. So as I was out in Lubbock visiting Mike, I was sitting in a quarterback meeting room on numerous days during camp, and Cliff was the starting quarterback. And so I didn't get to know him real well then. I asked him a few questions, talked a little bit of a ball with him and the other quarterbacks that were in their room, but didn't really hit it off then. But that was just when I met him and was introduced to him.

And as the years went on, you know, obviously he had such a tremendous career as a quarterback at Texas Tech. And then when he got back into coaching, you know, I sought him out as a guy that had had a lot of success. And it was one thing to hear about the offense. and learn it from Mike. But I've always found I really enjoy learning it from guys that actually played in it, particularly the quarterbacks,

because their experience as a quarterback in the system was really helpful to me. So at some point I wound up reaching out to Cliff. I mean, he was at Oklahoma State, and then he goes to Houston. To this day, the Houston offense that he coordinated is still the most prolific in all history of college football. And then he went to A&M and had Mansell and all kinds of success there. And during the Houston years and the A&M years, I got to know much better, used to visit them. And so, you know, after a while, you're in a year of the business this long, you just develop relationships with people.

I always gravitated to Cliff Kingsbury because I thought after studying, you know, for four or five years the top ten coordinators in college football, his creativity and the wrinkles and the plays that he ran from week to week that weren't part of the base offense had a very, very high success rate. And I just felt like the plays that he ran that were outside the box with regards to the creativity were really successful, more successful than most. And so I started visiting him. I got to know him better.

And, you know, he was very generous with his time. And I think it directly impacted. I know it directly impacted, you know, the way I approach offensive football. You mentioned that Houston team, which he was a part of to get his coaching career started, and you said it's the most prolific offense in history. I just want everybody to understand. That Houston team averaged 50 points a game and nearly 600 yards per game. And it really was, right, Phil?

It was the beginning of really seeing the most. Mike Leach effect, the spread, the pace in which you were trying to run 90 plus, you know, offensive snaps a game, et cetera. And that Houston team was unbelievable. I think it went 12 and 1, something like that, lost to Southern Miss in their championship game, and then beat Penn State in a bowl game. And Case Keenham was the starter, had a really good season. But that team was, that's about as, I mean, we've seen some explosive college teams.

you've had some and coach some, you know what, North Carolina, but that team was off the charts. They were, and, you know, a lot of, a lot of what I got there from Cliff really wound up being a good part of what we did at San Houston State, where we had some front of our own on offense, and it just, I just, you know, he was a guy that said, listen, this is how people do it in football traditionally, over the years, I don't know if that's the best way for our team. We're going to do what's best for our team. And he just was very willing to say, we're going to do it this way because it makes sense to our players. And then they did it.

And they were very successful doing it. And I always thought his teams played extremely instinctive football, which I'm a huge believer in. And so I want to teach the players what I need to teach him, what we need to teach him to be successful. but nothing more because I don't want a handicapped athlete and guys with speed by teaching them too much. And his teams were always so instinctive. And so, you know, I really just, I tried to get as much out of him as I could.

And like I said, we developed a little bit of trust. And he started to share, and it was extremely helpful to me. And so as the years go on, you just develop a relationship. And obviously, I have a tremendous amount of respect for Cliff. So I want to get to what you think Cliff Kingsbury is going to be in his second go-round in the NFL. But before that, I've got a question for you that is specific to kind of the differences between the NFL and college when it comes to offensive football. Because there are much greater talent deficiencies coach in college than there are in the NFL, there are ways to kind of scheme around that. You know, there are offenses that are considered to be kind of equalizers.

you know, air raids, spread, run and shoot from back in the day. You know, even the service academies with triple option is a way to kind of give themselves a chance to be competitive with teams that are bigger, faster, stronger. How much harder is it to do at the NFL level? To have, it's not a gimmicky offense, trust me, I'm not referring to it as that, but to have more of one of the, kind of, for the lack of a better description, college offenses? I can't speak for Coach Kingsbury, but I think if you really look at

any really good coach who's successful consistently over the years, whether it's an offensive coach or a defensive coach, whether or not they have more talent than everybody else or not as much, it really, truthfully, if a coach is successful in all those different scenarios, it's because he finds a way with his scheme to win with the talent that you have on the roster.

And it is really hard when you don't have a lot of talent to overcome the talent gap. When you're playing somebody that's so much better than you are, you can close the gap with coaching and scheme, but players really are the deal. They're the driving force. Now, on the other end of it, I do think play calling, and I do think that scheme is drastically undervalued because we all know those teams that are out there

that have equal talent to some other good teams and they underachieve. So you can have a lot of talent on the team and if you don't do a good job schematically and you don't do a good job coaching them, then they're going to underachieve even though you may have more talent than the team you're playing. I think Cliff is just a great example

of a guy that's going to take what he wants to do on offense and get the most out of his players. And much like most good coaches, I think you're going to let the talent-based drive what you do on offense or defense so that you can get the most out of this guy. I guess there's a better way to have asked that question and a more direct way to have asked that question,

and that is this. Why didn't it work out for Cliff Kingsbury at Arizona, offensively and overall? Well, I was busy coaching my team, so I didn't do it wasn't like I was evaluating the Cardinals, but I certainly followed him and studied what he did because I respect what he does. Quick synopsis for me and what little I know about that I know that the Cardinals improved each year when he first got there.

And I think it's really, really hard to overcome in the NFL when you lose a quarterback who is as talented as Kyler Murray. And so it obviously changes what your capabilities are. it changes obviously the talent base at the most important position on the field. And so, in my opinion, until that happened, the Cardinals were actually trending in a positive direction. It gets very, very difficult. You know, I went through the same thing this year. We went through the same thing this year with our quarterback. He broke his hand and missed five games. Yeah.

It affects what you do. Do you think that part of it is just that he's built to be a quarter of a quarterback? at the NFL level, not a head coach? Yeah, I don't feel that way, but I know that anywhere he is coordinated in offense, they have found a way to score points and move to football. Tell me what the offense will look like here in Washington best guess when he gets here, and they start playing games next year. Your guess is as good as mine.

I know I'm biased, but I think he has a good quarterback at the moment. And I don't know what the roster looks like. I don't know what the talent base looks like, so it would really be. It's just not something I can tell you because I don't know what he wants to do offensively right now, and I don't know what the roster looks like, so that's a difficult question. Well, what are the basic kind of hallmarks of a Cliff Kingsbury offense? Distribution to all your athletes, getting the football to all five skill players so that the defense has to defend all five, you know,

and then attacking all areas of the field. The most difficult thing for any defense to do going into a game is knowing that the offense will attack the entire field and knowing that the ball will be distributed to all five skill players. And that makes you have to defend all the real state and all of the population, and it's hard to do. And I think that's just been a staple of all of his teams. And I don't know that that'll be any different when he's there.

but that's really about as much as I could lend to it because without seeing the roster and knowing what he's thinking right now, it's hard for me to speak for him. What have you thought from afar of, or what did you think from afar, of Sam Howell's season this year where he got a chance to start for 17 games? Well, so for me, I mean, I look at it a little differently. I try not to evaluate everything that's around them. I have not coached in the NFL, and so I'm not going to claim to know

what the talent disparity is from one team to the next, but you'd like to, you know, obviously be able to sit down and evaluate Sam knowing everything that he has around him. I did, and I just watched his season, and I graded him the same way I did when he played for us in North Carolina, just to see whether he's making good decisions in triggering the ball. on time and doing the same things that I expected him to do when he was at North Carolina.

And I was actually very pleased for a guy that's never started in the league before. I thought he did a great job. And obviously you want to surround your quarterback with as much talent as you can. And hopefully that's the direction that the commanders go as they move forward with a new owner, a new coach, and a new coordinator. What would have been the things, and maybe you've already told him this, that you, after grading him this year, thought he needed to improve upon? Well, I think any time that you struggle to protect, you know, it becomes a huge priority,

it is already anyway, but it becomes a huge priority to make quick decisions and quick triggers because when you hold the ball, if you hold the ball, it puts more stress on an offensive line after not doing a great job protecting. You know, then obviously from a scheme standpoint, even from a coaching standpoint, you want to do things to help your quarterback so you can get the ball out of his hand. And I can't say that was a Sam Howell thing. I think that's an approach. I think a coach, any coach would want to take if their offensive line is having a hard time protecting. And I don't think that was any secret this year. Have you talked to Cliff about Sam Hal? Not recently. I have not. I mean, we talked heavily

about him when he was coming out. And, you know, oftentimes, I'll ask Cliff to evaluate my guys. I always want to know if there's something I can do better to prepare my guys, you know, that I'm coaching that are in my room. And so we've discussed Sam. We've discussed Drake May because he played for us at North Carolina and numerous other quarterbacks over the year. So, yeah, I'm actually, from a fan standpoint,

I mean, I love Sam personally. I do think he's a very good quarterback, and I'm a huge fan of Cliffs, and I think he's an excellent coach. So it's exciting for me. if they wind up being together this year to be able to watch the two of them on the same team, if that's what happened. Let's take Sam Howell out of the equation for just a moment. This is a hypothetical.

I understand this, but you are a college football, major college football offensive coordinator, and pay attention to college football. Washington has the number two pick in the draft. Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jaden Daniels are the top three quarterbacks. According to almost everybody at this point, things can change. between now and the end of April. If Washington decided to select a quarterback among those three, which of the three do you think Cliff Kingsbury would prefer?

Man, I'll tell you what, I'm not trying to skate your questions, but I have really, I don't know which one he would. He has experience with Caleb Williams, so that sometimes provides a comfort level, just like I would have a high comfort level with Drake because I've coached him. And then, you know, you brought up Jaden Daniels, who's also, you know, highly talented.

So I really don't know. I have a hard time speaking for Cliff because I haven't talked to him about it, and I don't know what he'd do, you know. But so it's hard. It's almost impossible for me to answer because I don't know what he's thinking. Well, well, Sam, all right, let me ask you,

if you were on the clock and it was your decision, which of the three would you pick? Oh, I'm going to pick Drake May every time because I know. Right. Okay, so... I know him and I know he can do the job. It doesn't mean the other two can't. The other two are really, really special.

They're really special. But I think they're all so close. I think they're all so close in value. I think all three of them are going to help an NFL team that I would lean on the one that I already have experience coaching because I know his character. I know how obsessed he is with the game, and I know that he can handle the job.

All right. last one. Will Drake, would Drake May and Sam Hal both benefit significantly in a Cliff Kingsbury system because

they played in yours? I think there would be a lot of similarities, absolutely. I think anybody that comes from an offense in this family is going to have a comfort level because the approach is very simpler. You know, sometimes terminology

is different or a specific route or technique is different. But overall, I've had quarterbacks that came here at Wisconsin that came from air raid systems elsewhere, and there was a lot of overlap and a high comfort level because the similarity and the approach

is the same. So yes, I think they would benefit from having been in a very similar system. At the end of the day, though, regardless of what quarterback Cliff coaches and what route or direction he dies decides to take offensively, it's going to be one.

that benefits the quarterback and benefits the team, and he's going to be successful no matter who he coach. Phil Longo, everybody, one of the real outstanding offensive minds in college football today. He's at Wisconsin, and yeah, the Big Ten season next year. I forget which of the West Coast teams Wisconsin plays, but it's going to feel different starting next year with the league adding USC, UCLA, Washington, and Oregon. that'll be strange. Thank you so

much for your time. Really appreciate it and thanks for the insight. You got to appreciate the invite. You all have a good one. Some excellent insight from Phil Longo on Cliff Kingsbury. Up next, Albert Breer recounted basically day by day for

all intents and purposes Washington's coaching search which landed Dan Quinn. I will share some of that with you. when we return right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and you'll get everything you want for Super Bowl 58.

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MyBooky.ag promo code Kevin D.C. So I'm going to read a bit, not a lot, because it's really long from a story that Albert Breer wrote Monday morning quarterback, s.i.com about Washington's coach search that led to the hiring of Dan Quinn. It's Albert Breyer, you know, a credible NFL reporter. It's not, you know, a YouTuber or a blogger or somebody like Mike Floreo as an example. It's Albert Breer. And I'm doing it for one reason only. And I know we should just be looking forward at this point. We got our coach.

We got our coordinators, et cetera. But I still can't believe how many of you believe that Dan Quinn was never a serious candidate, that they had to settle for him, that he was their fifth choice, that he was plan Z, that they were scrambling so desperately that they ended up doing what they did with Zorn in 2008. It's just not true. You know, those people pushing that, you know, they, should just say they don't know. It's okay to say you don't know. I do it all the time. I should do it more. You know, I don't get shit like this all the time. You guys know that. I'm not one, I'm not a reporter,

but I've been lucky enough at times and maybe resourceful enough other times to get things that I feel very confident in based on the sources. And I will share that with you when I get it. And for the most part, I've been right over the years. And I told you two weeks ago that I had somebody tell me that Dan Quinn all the boxes for them, that he interviewed very well, that he was definitely a candidate. And I had this person tell me he would not be surprised if Dan Quinn got the job, that he viewed him as, you know, worst case, Plan B, if Plan A falls through. But anyway, what Breer writes, for the most part, is a story about how Washington went into this thing without anybody specifically in mind. Like they had open minds.

and what he writes, clean intentions. And he said that the team's latest coaching search, which followed an expedited search for a new head of football ops landing on GM Adam Peters, was certainly interesting. And then he breaks down the details. And I'll give you some of the highlights here. First of all, the first two interviews they did were with Baltimore Ravens' assistance, Mike McDonald and Anthony Weaver,

because they were allowed to interview people from the two teams that had the buys in the playoffs. And what was interesting about those first two hires, Peters wasn't part of the interview. Why? Because he hadn't gotten the job his GM yet. He got the job the day after they interviewed McDonald and Weaver. So on their list, after they interviewed McDonald and Weaver, they had on their list, Quinn, Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn in Detroit, Bobby Sloak in Houston, Rahim Morrison, L.A., and internal candidate Eric B. Enemy. And they had to complete the first round of interviews with all of them,

and those were done via Zoom heading into the divisional round of the playoffs. Now, listen to the people that were involved in the interviews, all right? Harris, the owner, Peters, the GM. Martin Mayhew was a significant part of the interview. process. It would appear as if Martin Mayhew is kind of a right-hand man to Peters right now. They work together in San Francisco. Consultants Bob Myers and Rick Spielman were part of those initial interviews as well. Myers and Harris would be in for the first hour and then the others were there through the rest of it. They were graded. Each candidate was graded in a number of categories, leadership, intelligence, communication, ability to build a staff, honesty and integrity,

and consistency of personality. Quinn scored highly in every category. So they, after that first round of interviews, the group compared notes, and then they decided to invite back as finalists, all seven of the external candidates, so that would exclude Eric Bianami, for second interviews. So after the first round of interviews, Quinn scored highly in every category, but they decided to bring all seven other than Bianemy back for second interviews. So that would include, right, McDonald, Weaver, Johnson, Glenn Quinn, Loic and Rahim Morris. Those seven, all right?

So the format for the second set of interviews was a little different. Peters, Spielman, and Mayhew would start, and then Myers and Harris would join in, and then Peters would get a one-on-one with the candidate at the end. They interviewed Morris on January 23rd in Florida for their second interview. and after that interview, Rahim Morris flew to Atlanta and Carolina for second interviews. And Morris then found out that Atlanta was offering him their job. He did tell Adam Peters, Atlanta's offering me the job. Peters told him, best of luck, we wish you the best essentially. I'm paraphrasing here because it's a long write-up, but he said,

He wound up telling Morris's camp that he, Peters, would stay true to the process of conducting the rest of the interviews. So they weren't concerned, obviously, about losing Morris to Atlanta. So of the seven candidates, external, obviously Bianami not part of it, Morris got the job in Atlanta, and they certainly didn't panic over losing Morris. They continued, knew they were going to lose him and said, nope, we're going to stay true to the process. and we're going to interview the other five, the other six candidates at that point of the external candidates. It says five here, but I think he means six. Listen to this. Peter's used for vetting candidates conversations with Kyle Shanahan, John Lynch,

Parag Marath in San Francisco, and Jed York. The reason is all of them had worked with various people, specifically Quinn. And so Peters used Shanahan Lynch, Maroth, and Jed York. And Shanahan and York had seen Quinn up close at opposite ends of the spectrum. York had watched Quinn in his first NFL job in San Francisco as the D-Line coach, and Shanahan, of course, worked with Quinn in Atlanta. What struck Peters was the consistency in what everyone said.

The polling that Peter Spielman Mayhew did canvassing NFL contacts from Dallas and Atlanta, all those people in San Francisco who'd worked for Quinn with the Falcons, it was just as consistent. But he wasn't the only candidate who'd hit for that sort of average, which is why the group decided to go into that last week with an open mind and a still wide-open search. As such, perception that Johnson was a heavy favorite rankled them, especially when it made some candidates leery about staying in the race. So they had been getting a lot on Quinn that justified their interest in Quinn. They didn't care about losing Morris,

but they wanted to complete all of these face-to-face interviews, several of which they couldn't have until last Monday. So Quinn's interview was scheduled for the four seasons in Georgetown, which kicked off at 7.30 a.m. That was a day after they had interviewed Weaver and had interviewed McDonald for a second time. After the interview with Quinn, which they said, Peter Spielman and Mayhew said, the coach was shot out of a cannon. They felt Quinn's passion for his work, his excitement about the job in particular,

how the mutual connections between the football folks in the room created a natural chemistry. When Peters and Quinn went one-on-one, the GM, marked down that this was someone he'd want to work with. But Washington still was scheduled to go to Detroit. They boarded for Detroit. They found out on the flight that Johnson had pulled out of the search. They actually found out by reading it on Twitter with Wi-Fi on the plane. Then they got a text that had been sent from Johnson saying, informing the decision about staying in Detroit. They did an interview with Glenn. He acquitted himself nicely. And then they flew to Mobile for the Senior Bowl. And at that point, they had two candidates in mind, McDonald and Quinn, Breer writes. They debriefed.

They resolved to sleep on it. On Wednesday, McDonald arrived in Seattle for a second interview. That turned out to be more of a coronation. And that simplified things for the commanders. It doesn't say that McDonald was one or Quinn was one. It says that they had narrowed it down to McDonald and Quinn. I also think that the Johnson stuff was very much overrated and they would have certainly gotten to the point after meeting him in person where he would not have risen to the top based on some of their metrics. I think that's obvious.

That seems to be a bullet dodged in this whole thing. Anyway, there's one of the first. last note here. On Wednesday night, Peters, who got his start in New England, called former Patriots coach Bill Belichick to touch base. After that call, he reached out to Quinn to offer him the job. It doesn't say that he reached out to Bill Belichick to ask him about what he thinks about hiring Quinn. So it can leave you feeling, did he reach out to Bill Belichick to see if he was interested? I don't think that's true. I think it's that he had got you know, thumbs up from guys like Lynch in Shanahan and, you know, lots of others from Dallas to

Atlanta, as Breer wrote. But it was just an odd line. On Wednesday night, Peters got his, Peters, who got to start New England called former Patriots coach Bill Belichick to touch base. And after that call, he reached out to Quinn to offer him the job. So, I don't think that he was checking to see if Bill Belichick was interested in Washington. I don't. I think he was, I think they got, you know, as Adam Schepter told me on radio last week, they were blown away with how many people and the various nature of the people that came out of the woodwork to recommend Quinn. All right, done for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.