The Kevin Sheehan Show - Quinn, Whitt Jr., and Legler

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Kevin opened with some of the Dan Quinn and Joe Whitt Jr. press conference sound from earlier today at OTAs. ESPN's Tim Legler was next talking NBA Finals, Luka Doncic, and more. He also weighed in on his favorite football team, the Commanders, and shared his thoughts on Jayden Daniels, Dan Quinn, and his plans for the opener against Tampa Bay. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. We don't have 11 starters, okay? You're going to put this down, so don't ask me who's starting here. We have 17 to 18 guys. We're going to go out there.

We're going to roll a deep crew and go out there and whip people, okay? So we don't have 11 guys. We have many personnel groups, and now can they own those positions when we put them in there. So when that comes, don't ask me about who's starting, please. That was Joe Witt Jr., Washington's defensive coordinator, and for my money, the star of today's press conferences, as the team held another OTA day out in Ashburn. We're going to roll out a deep crew and go out there and whoop people. Don't ask me about who's starting, please. Good stuff from him, and it's only June. More from Joe Witt Jr. coming up. Also, I will share with you some of what Dan Quinn said today out at the park. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windonation.

Give them a call at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name for a free no-risk in-home estimate. One of my favorite guests on the show today, Tim Legler, coming up in the next segment, probably a final segment with Tim as well. We'll talk NBA finals, but with Tim, of course, kind of like Steve Sands. We'll end up talking about his favorite football team. Yes, the Washington commanders. And we'll find out his thoughts on Jaden Daniels and a lot more.

Tim Legler coming up. Before we get to more Joe Witt Jr., and I share with you some of what Dan Quinn said today, I wanted to play something for you that I found on the Internet earlier today. The L.A. Rams put out one of those video series of their draft. You know, Washington's done it. All the teams do it now. They've got cameras in the draft room, and they put together, you know, a two, three, four-part series of the general manager and the scouts and the front office people discussing draft picks and then the calls to the draft picks, etc. The Rams put out their videos this week, I guess, and there's one piece of one. of the episodes that I wanted to play for you. This was general manager of the Rams, the general

manager of the Rams, less need four hours before the first round of the draft on April 25th. And he's in a car with another member of the Rams front office. His name is Ray Farmer. They're on their way to what they refer to as their draft house. I guess they conduct their draft away from their facility. And you'll hear less needs call to Adam Peters, Washington's new general manager. He's wondering if Washington is interested in moving off of number two overall. Here's how the conversation played out. What's up, man? I'm driving to the draft house. Oh, yeah. You guys got it all figured out, man that's incredible it's almost like going to do training camp somewhere else it's like you know

what this is cool to go somewhere else you know draft versus just staying your building and doing the same old thing what are you thinking they're going to stay in two and pick uh take uh quarterback definitely uh as it gets closer give us a call good luck with everything and um hopefully we'll be talking have fun on your first one you know what I mean this is cool thanks buddy see you at him all right let's take care Bye-bye. That's relatively common about this time. And everybody's trying to get a feel for who's definitely moving back, who's not.

Right now everybody's just flirting. No dancing. There you have it. No Jaden Daniels for us. No Jaden Daniels for us, Sneed says. There at the end, were they really interested in moving up to get Daniels? They had number 19. overall. I don't think there was any way the Rams could have gotten up to number two. And

Adam Peters pretty much, you know, let them know what they were going to do, which was take a quarterback at number two. They clearly, by the way, knew that Washington was taking Daniels. I think many people around the league knew that. But it's kind of impossible to think that the Rams were in position to move up to number two. But the flirting as soon as Need called it is still something the Rams, I guess, were interested in doing. There were reports, and I went and looked and found reports before the draft that the Rams were talking quarterback. They were interested in quarterback. Remember, they just have Matt Stafford, who, you know, is towards the end of his career. Stetson Bennett, the longtime Georgia quarterback, is the backup there.

But there were a lot of reports that the Rams really liked Michael Pennex. Jr. and may have taken him if he had fallen to them at number 19, but of course he didn't. But anyway, I love some of that stuff that we've been getting the last couple of years from the teams after the draft and sort of seeing how it works to a certain degree. Last year, if you recall, we had Martin Mayhew on the phone talking to the Patriots and then interacting with Ron Rivera. they were talking about a trade up from 16 to 14, for whom probably not Emmanuel Forbes, who was going to be there at 16 for Washington.

They certainly didn't have to trade up two spots to get Forbes. But Ben Standig has always believed that Lucas Van Ness was the target for Washington if they had traded up to 14. the defensive lineman, the pass rusher from Iowa, remember, you know, I think we knew this kind of at the time, and we certainly know this in hindsight. They were trying to deal Chase Young. There just wasn't an offer on the board they were interested in. They knew they were going to eventually have to replace Chase Young. They knew that in the 2023 draft. They were ready to move on from Chase Young in that draft. But so I don't, I believe Ben. Like I think that that makes total sense.

That they certainly weren't talking about the Patriots and trading up two spots to take Emmanuel Forbes. They knew Forbes would be there. The offensive linemen that they really liked in that draft, Darnell Wright from Tennessee, went number 10 overall to Chicago. So it wasn't for an offensive lineman at that point. The kid from Northwestern had gone.

11. Broderick Jones was still on the board, but I don't think Washington had him as a guy they wanted at 16. So Van Ness makes sense. Van Ness, by the way, in his rookie season, had four sacks, played in all 17 games for the Packers, because that's who drafted him. The Packers drafted him at 13, so he was off the board for New England at 14 anyway, so Washington didn't do anything. As it turns out, New England ended up trading out of that spot with Pittsburgh, and they took Christian Gonzalez, the corner from Oregon, right after Washington took Forbes. And look, before Gonzalez got hurt and he got hurt last year after just four or five games, I think it was, he looked pretty good as a rookie corner. I liked Gonzalez in the draft last year.

of the corners, I liked him, but I also liked Emmanuel Forbes. I was not against that pick, but of the corners in the draft last year, Witherspoon and Gonzalez, I liked, I liked Gonzalez and Witherspoon in that order, one, two. But anyway, I like some of those videos. One of the takeaways in watching some of these videos of the draft over the last few years

is just how fluid things are, right up until the time teams are picking. Now, you know, Peters was dead set on using number two overall for Daniels, and they were not talking about trading back. I think the one significant offer that Peters even referred to as, you know, one offer was probably from Minnesota. It certainly wasn't from the Rams. But it almost in watching some of these videos, you know,

reflects teams that are not, you know, it's not that they're not prepared, but that they're not totally convinced about much, which, by the way, the draft is the ultimate, you know, sort of crapshoot. Anyway, all right, before I play for you more Joe Witt, Jr. I wanted to share with you some of what Dan Quinn said. I'm just going to read through some of this stuff, some of his quotes. Dan gets long-winded. There is no doubt about it. But the first thing that was addressed was the release of Brandon McManus. And I think the most important thing to note is he really wasn't talking. But he did say one thing. He said that it's a lesson that you always need to let people know what's going on. Meaning they didn't know

anything about Brandon McManus. He said he didn't find out any information until May 27th. That was the Monday of the report that McManus was being sued by the two women over the sexual harassment allegations on a flight that Jacksonville was on to London last year during the regular season. And he said, here's the quote. He said, I can't comment a lot, but what I can't say is a little bit about what I told the team. And I think like most things, not necessarily related to this, but as a lesson, let's make sure you always let somebody know and tell them. There's usually a whole bunch of people that want to be part of the solution.

And so when you have that, whether that's for this team or any team or a parent, that kind of communication allows you to come up with some solutions. So it's a good lesson to always have that conversation. And that's what he said. So clearly they would have loved to have known what McManus was going through. I still believe, and it's a pretty strong informed hunch, more than hunch, but some informed speculation, I would call it, that the team did look into this. Did they actually put an investigator on it?

No. but there were probably people that they could call in Jacksonville and in other places to learn a little bit about this. Remember, they didn't cut him right away. They spent a week before they released him. So he did weigh in on that. There were a couple of other things that Dan Quinn said. He talked about Emmanuel Forbes. And he actually said in speaking about Emmanuel Forbes that Emmanuel Forbes has a superpower. And he talked about the superpower being a guy that can really make plays going after the ball. He said, quote, the first part is really the ball skills. And at that spot to be able to turn the ball over as a defense, that's something that you really want. And that's, I would say, his superpower. And the thing that he was so strong at. And then he talked about, you know, you look for length.

You don't necessarily have to have the big frame. You have to have that length. And he's bigger than he was for sure last year. He's worked hard in the offseason, he said. And he said something to the effect that it's not one size fits all in terms of frames. You know, every position's different. The way players play are different. And he said, you know, body composition is, you know,

different on these guys, but he did say in reference to Emmanuel Forbes, he did talk about Emmanuel Forbes's superpower. Then there was something that I, they were actually two things that I thought were really, really interesting. Number one is in talking about Jane, Jaden Daniels, he said that what they've really worked on is situational stuff. And he specifically talked about how in college, You know, the clock stops in the final two minutes after a first down. Well, you know, it doesn't happen in the NFL. He said, and so to see him, as in Jaden Daniels, going through those mechanics at a two minute, so the other day he says at the end of the half, working down, working down in a clock situation,

where it's still moving on a first down. And so like, you know, that type of urgency, I'm reading the quote right now, as you can probably surmise. And getting him comfortable in that environment. So, you know, college football players, offense, defense, they understand that when you get a first down in the final two minutes, the rules changed last year to the final two minutes. Before that, it was first downs throughout the game,

and college football tried to shorten up their game by just making first downs in the final two minutes of a half and the game plays in which the clock would stop for the, chains to move. And you know, watching college football, you can throw a ball down the middle of the field with no timeouts left at the end of a game if you're trying to get in field goal range, knowing that the clock will stop and you can get up there and spike it, you know, on the snap. Well, you can't do that in the NFL. And I just think, I thought that was an interesting thing that he said because, you know, Cooley's talked about this before. Most players don't watch.

as much football as we watch. So when college players get to the NFL, things like, oh, the clock doesn't stop on first downs in the final two minutes? It's new to them. And with the quarterback, it's a rather important part of the game. So he kind of emphasized that what they've really been working on is situational stuff. By the way, college football is getting the two-minute warning in 2024. He mentioned Jamin Davis's versatility and you'll hear what Joe Witt Jr. said about

Jamie Davis as well. That was actually a big takeaway from today, and I'll save what I'm going to say for the most part for when I play what Joe Witt Jr. said about Jamie Davis. But he said that he's been working a lot with Ryan Kerrigan. Well, Ryan Kerrigan's title is assistant linebackers coach and pass rush specialist. assistant linebackers coach pass rush specialist. This is what they're thinking of doing with Jamie Davis. And then lastly, I mentioned, I think, on the podcast last week, Dave Talb, the special teams coach for the chiefs,

and how he said that the new kickoff rules will likely result in the chiefs using a defensive player as the kicker on kickoffs because they want the 11th tackler on the field. They don't want Harrison Butker, their kicker, to be the 11th tackler on, you know, a play that is now going to include a return and very much kind of a line of scrimmage feel to the actual play. And he had mentioned that things like hang time don't matter anymore because you can't move in the direction of the returner until the returner fields the ball. So the kick coverage unit is at the opponent's 40-yard line. They can't start to move in the direction of where the ball has gone until it's possessed by the returner. So Dan Quinn was

asked by Nikki Javala about what the team's mindset will be about this specific play, the kickoff and whether or not to use a kicker or a position player, a defensive player who could be an 11th tackler on the play. And the way that Nikki phrased the question was, you know, will they still employ place kickers on the roster to do that or will they use another player? And Dan Quinn said, yes, that's how we are right now unless somebody emerges in one of these specific tryouts that they've got real punt pass and kick backgrounds as a child. And then he kind of laughed. But right now, yeah, that's how we're leaning towards it.

Let me just be clear. The answer was basically we don't have anybody else. So the kicker is more likely than not going to be the guy on the kickoff coverage unit. He's going to be kicking off. Whereas maybe other teams will try to use, as Dave Talb in Kansas City said, you know, somebody who can kick off, but can also be out there as a tackler. So he answered the question. It's funny because we were listening to this live on radio earlier,

and we couldn't hear the questions. So now that I'm reading it from the transcript that the team sent out, what's clear is that Quinn is saying, look, unless we find somebody that can, you know, tackle and kick off as well as our kickoff guy can do it, we're probably going to use the kicker to do it. All right, I want to play a little bit more of Joe Witt Jr. for you, and then we'll get to Legler, but Joe Witt Jr. today was by far in a way the most entertaining press conference,

the most direct. And we actually, I think, really did learn something from Joe Witt, Jr., specifically about Jamin Davis. I'll play that for you last. I want to start with this exchange that he had with, First John Kime and then Ben Standing. As I mentioned, really hard to hear the reporter's questions today, so you won't hear John or Ben ask the questions. I'm going to tell you what they asked because they were so faint.

But John asked Joe Witt, Jr. about Emmanuel Forbes. And he asked, what are some of the things you're working on with him to get him to kind of reach his potential? And then here is how Joe Witt Jr. handled that question. Well, those are the things that me and him are going to talk about. Well, just between us, but one thing that I always would do, I'll look at every team's interviews and I'll try to pick here and there. They'll figure it out when we play, okay?

But I can tell you that the kid is working his butt off, and I'm pleased with where it is. I can tell you that 100%. Because if I wasn't, I'll tell you, I'm not going to come up here and BS anybody. All right, so it is what it is. So you get an early theme to Joe Witt's press conference today, which is we don't destroy. disclose anything in June. You'll see it when we play in September. So Ben is up next. And Ben

asks him, he says, you know, we're all trying to figure out what the defense will look like. Do you know right now what it will look like? And here was his response. I know how it's going to look. Yeah. I mean, what's your next question? What's your next question? He says to Ben. And Ben follows up by. saying, well, you know, a guy like Frankie Louvo, for example, it certainly seems like he can play a lot of different positions all over the field. And I'm just wondering, you know, how a guy like that fits into the defense. And so here was the response from Joe Witt, Jr. to that. Why would I say that right now when people are looking? They'll figure it out when we play.

But we're happy, and I'm not trying to be a smart ass. All right, trust me, believe me, okay? but the advantage that we have right now is people don't know, okay? And we're going to keep that advantage until they figure it out. So I'm not going to say I'm not trying to dodge anybody's question, all right? I'm answering it the best way I can, but we have good players and we're going to put them in position to help us win. And that's all we're going to get until, you know, after the first game. Good stuff from Joe Witt, Jr. Good questions by John and Ben also, but this guy is not giving out anything important in June.

Look, the last defensive coordinator didn't give us much either, but he didn't have nearly as much personality in his answers. In all seriousness, though, you know, there is an advantage with new coaching regimes, more so probably with guys who haven't been head coaches. I mean, there is a lot of history on Dan Quinn. There's a lot of history on Cliff Kingsbury. But Washington has the added advantage of a lot of new players and a brand new starting quarterback.

So, yeah, look, as a fan, you don't want them disclosing anything about how they're going to play stylistically scheme-wise. The teams that they're playing will figure it out when they start to play them, and that doesn't start until September 8th. So one last Joe Witt Jr. soundbite that I want to play. I'd mention that Dan Quinn talked about Jamon Davis working with Ryan Carragon, Kerrigan, the assistant linebackers coach, pass rush specialist. You know, we've all been talking about Jamon Davis potentially being used as a pass rusher.

He can't cover. And maybe he becomes, you know, a specialized third down pass rush guy. So Joe Witt, Jr. was asked about Jamie Davis and how he's coming along. And here's what he said. He's a big, strong, fast man that has the ability to be. All right, so we want to make sure we get our best players on the field in whatever capacity we can do. We have a history of playing guys in positions that they might not normally be used to. And we're just trying to build our best 11 guys on the field.

And he's a big, fast, willing guy that's excited about doing it. Big, strong, fast man with the ability to bend. We want to make sure we get our best players on the field in whatever capacity we can. We've got a history of guys playing positions that they might not normally be used to. Look, all the clues are there on Jaman Davis, right? He is big, strong, fast, can bend, has quick twitch. What he can't do is cover. What he can't do is a lot of what a linebacker does, at least so far.

And they see him as a potential edge pass rusher. And they're going to try to get something out of a guy that was taken in the first round. I mean, Chase Young, Jamie Davis, Jehan Dodson, manual Forbes. I think Ron will ultimately go one in three, worst case, because I think Dotson will be a really good player. I still do. But Forbes and Davis question marks, but at least this group is trying to figure out solutions. Look, they don't have to. It's not their guy. They didn't pick Jamie Davis. They didn't pick Emmanuel Forbes. But Davis does have some real athletic ability.

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Go to windownation.com. Mention my name and at the very least get an estimate and then you can decide what to do after you've got an estimate in hand. All right. Joining me right now, as promised, Tim Legler from ESPN. Tim, of course, we'll talk some NBA finals with us, but I'm sure the conversation will turn to Jaden Daniels and his favorite football team as well.

Follow Tim on X on Twitter at Legs ESPN. It's been a while. Let me just mention to you. You are great calling that Minnesota Denver game three. Why aren't you doing more of that? Well, it kind of goes back to, I used to call a lot more games, and then they made a determination the way it was explained to me at some point. I don't know how long ago, maybe eight, ten years ago,

that my value to them in studio for what I do, no one else could really replicate that, and they wanted me to do that more, because when I'm in studio on a given day, I can cover a lot of different shows, formats, I can do radio. I can do any of the TV shows. If you go call the game, you're only calling the game that day.

You're getting a two-and-half-hour game broadcast, and that's it. And so they wanted to kind of separate the two. For me, personally, I do think calling that game was a, you know, I was very happy to get that call and went out there. I wish the game had been better. You remember Denver pulled. Denver blew them out in the second half. They were down, you know, 2-0.

There was a lot of drama going into that, Minneapolis, City of Minneapolis was ready to blow up, which it just explode with excitement going into that game. Denver took them out of the game. First half was decent. Second half kind of got away from Minnesota. But in doing it, the feedback was so universally received. I think that maybe hopefully a little bit eye-opening to some people up there. And I think hopefully going into next season, I know that that's my desire because I really enjoy getting out to the arena

and interacting with that energy and the players and everything. It's just something I think I bring a lot to the table. So hopefully that'll be something going forward. we'll see more of it. I mean, is it something you wanted to do? Would you prefer to do a lot of that? Yeah, now I do. I think life circumstances, you know, change some of that, too.

Like, I was coaching, you know. Right. AAU. That was a big part of my life at the time, coaching. My guys, my son was on that team, I coached my daughter's team for a couple years. So the time commitment with that made it a lot harder to be traveling as much to go-call games. It was a little easier to schedule my studio stuff around practices and stuff that that was just easier.

Weekends were always tied up with AAU tournaments, whereas now you're calling games, you're going to be calling more games on weekends and stuff. So now it's a little bit different for me. Life circumstances have opened up to a point where, yeah, I'm open to anything and doing a little bit more of that traveling during the season and on weekends. Stuff like that would be more amenable to me now.

Serious question, because I know that at one point, because we talked about it a lot, that you would have been interested in coaching at the college level. You know, with the conversation about JJ Reddick here recently, do you think you could step in and coach an NBA team right now? Do I think I could? Absolutely. Yes, I do.

I have that much belief in myself. You know, people that know me well know also that I have firmly believed, even going back to when I was playing in the NBA, my calling, like what, you know, sometimes that you have this epiphany, like what you're here to do. that you're going to be best at and most impactful doing was to be a coach. And I started thinking about that even when I played. Now, again, life circumstances, they calm up, and that's what happened.

I get out of the league, it goes through divorce. I got two little kids. It changed everything in my mind. All I cared about was being present for my children and making sure which if I take a coaching job, who knows what path that takes you want to where you have to move. My kids were young. It was just not an option for me. the life circumstances kind of interrupted that thought process.

And then as they got older and I decided then I wanted to kind of throw my name back in there. And I interviewed for some D1 coaching jobs and I finished second a couple of times. I think it was just the quote, no experience factor, you know, scared off some ADs and search firms. And that's the way it goes. My argument was always, you know, experiences comes in a lot of different forms. I think playing in the NBA and being around the NBA, the highest level coaches and everything and deserving it and just listening to me talk about it. Clearly, I'm looking at it differently when I give analysis on the air.

Just listen to what I'm doing and tell me if you don't hear experience in there. That just was a moot point fellow on deaf ears when I was trying to get some D1 jobs. I believe at any level of basketball. I just think I know how to bring that all together, my communication skills, my leadership skills, what I'm seeing, the attention to detail that makes all the difference in the world with something being successful and not on the court. From an X-Z-O standpoint, I'm just, that's what I do.

And it comes very naturally to me if I have a lot of passion about it. So, yes, to answer your question, I think that's what I was kind of put here to do. I don't necessarily believe I'm ever going to get that opportunity at the college level or pro-level to do it. So at some point, you kind of make peace with it and you go, okay, then I'm just going to be the very best at what I do. And as long as I can do it. Yeah, I think you could do it too, no doubt. All right. I have not talked to you during these NBA playoffs, not on the air anyway.

So tell me what the biggest surprise is, and we'll exclude Dallas being in the finals, because I know that wasn't a surprise to you. But tell me in terms of what's happened so far, what's been the biggest surprise. It would have to be the fact that we're not sitting here right now talking about Denver and Boston in the finals. if you're asking me what surprised me, that surprised me. And I think the most surprising individual thing I witnessed the entire postseason was what happened to Denver in game two of their series against Minnesota. They lose game one in a close game, and then game two happens.

And it was the most suffocating defensive performance that I can remember seeing and the most inept offensive performance out of a team that I thought was the best half-court execution team in the NBA. Like I thought I knew what that team was. And for them to look that way in game, too, now look, they turn a lot out around, obviously.

They go to Minnesota, they win two straight games and they get right back in the mix of things. And then they're not able to get over the hump and win that series. Surprise me, man. I thought all along, Dallas, I said from the trading deadline on that this team could go to the conference finals, and as long as they

could avoid Denver as long as possible. and stay out of their side of the bracket. We didn't know that until the last day of the season. That's how it was going to play out. They avoid Denver bracket until the conference finals. So I'm thinking, okay, then this is what I'm going to see. Dallas, Denver, conference finals. And then Minnesota came in and interrupted all of that narrative.

And then I picked Dallas to beat Minnesota regardless because I thought Dallas and Denver were going to be ultimately the two best teams. And Dallas does beat them, but I didn't see that going in to the playoff. I thought it was going to be Denver, Boston. I thought that was the series we're supposed to get. It felt like that's what we should get based on how close Boston's been, how good Denver's been with Yokic. It felt like, yeah, this is the match that we need to see. Not Denver, Miami, not Boston Golden State, like we saw the two previous years.

No, this is the one. Denver, Boston, we're supposed to find out. And we didn't get there. So I guess that would be the most surprising thing. That's not who we're talking about right now in this series. After watching Dallas, you know, beat the Clippers, beat Oklahoma City and take out Minnesota in five. And what's your perspective on how this series, and seeing Denver up close in game three, and how they rallied to take a three-two series lead and then, you know, had a 17-point lead in game seven. How do you think that series would have gone, Denver and Dallas? I would have picked Denver to win that series.

Look, if Denver, especially if Denver came back in a fashion they did after getting dominated to that extent by that defense in game two. And at the time, remember, coming out of game two, Jamal Murray clearly was not healthy. And now here I am sitting courtside calling game three. And three minutes into that game with all this anxiety hanging in the air. And I remember talking to Mike Malone before the game, we did the pre-game interview. and I was like, they had four days off. And so you tell him it was 96, three days off then the game, so it was 96 hours had passed. And we interviewed Mike Malone.

He walked in, I asked him a question about game two, that veins in his neck immediately started showing themselves. His face got red. He talked about it for five straight minutes with one question. That's how angry he was over what happened to his team in game two and how they looked at how he challenged them in the time off. and I could only imagine what he was saying to them in that time, and he had the cachet to do it because they respect him, and they'd already won it. And he put them through hell for four days

and challenged them in a way that they got that kind of response. I saw Jamal Murray three minutes into the game, scissor dribble backwards when he got a switch into this mode, like, I'm about to go eat. And I was like, okay, he's feeling differently tonight. And he was sensational in that game. And so then they come all the way back, and they take the lead. If they were able to hold on and win that series,

I would say, man, they dug themselves out of something deep. Not only were they down 2-0, they were completely emasculated in game two. How do you recover from that against 18 with a young superstar and all that defensive talent and size and everything else? So if they had won that series, I think I would have picked Denver to beat Dallas, and I probably, I think there was a good chance Denver would have beaten Dallas. Well, the other thing you talked about in that game three was just how, you know, Malone had motivated, you know, with that long period of time between game two and game three with

how everybody was burying them. And look, you're right. The defense from Minnesota in the first two games, but game two in particular, you just don't see that that often, you know, in the NBA anymore. It was complete, they could not make forward progress, you know, on offense. and it was just stunning to watch. And I thought they were in deep trouble at that point. I'm like, the only chance they have is to basically get stops

and get out on the break and score before they have to face a set defense. But they really turned it around and won. I really wanted to see Denver, Boston as well. But that's not what we have. You loved Dallas, especially after the trade deadline. So let's talk about this matchup. going into it. Well, first of all, with respect to Boston,

does it matter that essentially they had one of the easiest paths to the NBA finals ever? By the way, I compared it on radio today to the 91 skins, who you are very familiar with, considered to be one of the greatest teams of all time. But the one knock against them is they played Atlanta and Detroit on their way to the Super Bowl, two run and shoot teams, and they didn't have to face San Francisco or great giant teams or great 49er teams on the way.

Boston gets, you know, not only three, you know, opponents, but three lame opponents with key players being out. Does that concern you? What do you make of Boston in their readiness for the finals? Yeah, look, I think it's a legitimate point, but I will say this. at no point where they threatened in any of these first three rounds to the point where you thought this series was in doubt. Dallas obviously navigated some of those moments. The series itself was in doubt. That wasn't the case of Boston.

Having said that, they did face some challenges, and they were very impressive in their response. So the first one is, if you lose game two at home to Miami, they make a record number of threes in that game. So it's 1-1, and everybody starts talking. Oh, it's heat, heat culture, Eric Bolster, who I think is the best coach in the league, too. But, oh, boy, there are trouble.

Here we go. What happens? They go down to Miami for game three, and they all just beat them. They smoke them. And so for me, that's a very important response. They didn't go down there and went on a buzzer-beater. They didn't go down there where they had to get a last second stop to hold on or they go down to 1. There was zero anxiety in that situation.

Same thing happened in the Cleveland series. They lose game two at home. Donovan goes off. They lose the game. Here we go. Going to Cleveland now. Okay, you got Mitchell. They've got Garland.

They've got size. And what do they do? They go in there. They win decisively. So that's two times early that, okay, it's maybe not quite what Dallas face, but it's like, wow, that's impressive response to losing game two at home. And then, by the way, not only did they win game three. They won game four and five in both series.

So there was never a doubt. This last one, game one should have lost. I mean, that's not even. I don't like to use the word should have because I think teams. you have to get it done and some teams take advantage of doors being left open. And I give them credit, but the bottom line is I'm sorry, no. Inbounding the ball with eight and a half seconds to go up three, that's a win. That's a win.

And they threw it back towards their basket. Amazing. Well, the design of the play is horrific. Terrible. Halliburton and Seacom, neither of those guys took a direct route to the ball. So you left poor Nemhart in this situation where he's throwing a ball 30 plus feet, the wrong direction toward his own basket that ends up making the ball get deflected out on the baseline, which changes your action you can run to get a quick hitter, which they get for

Jalen Brown. So like, and look, there's a lot there. You know, should they have called time out? Yes, they should have called time out. Rick Carlis should have called time out right there. And you can be more in control of how that's going to go. Bottom line is that's a win, and they didn't win the game. So Boston, give them credit.

They took advantage of the opportunity. Then they played Tate and played great overtime. they win the game. And then they smoke them in game two. Janelle Brown goes off 40 points. They think that's an easy win. The only easy win they had at that series. Then they go to Indiana.

They win two more games, and it's both of them are like precarious. And, you know, so they were down with Aliburton. They played very, no Halliburton. But here's the thing. This question about Boston has been playing well in pressure situations offensively. They did do that in the Indiana series, man. They did execute and make big shots. That's a positive sign for them.

So even if you don't think that was warm water or boiling water, if that was just dipping your toe in and it was a little bit uncomfortable for them, it wasn't like real pressure, whatever, they still responded. And so I'm going to give them a little bit more credit than a lot of people in terms of their past. You're right. They haven't faced a healthy Sixers with Embed. They didn't face Milwaukee healthy with Janus. They avoided those scenarios.

I get it. But they did handle what adversity they had pretty well. Now they're going to be faced with something different. Because if you lose game two in this series or you lose game one, you get a split at home, that's going to feel a lot different going to Dallas for game three and a one-one than it felt going to Miami or it felt going to Cleveland. All right. Let's talk about the matchup. Boston is a favorite.

They're a minus 2.30 favorite. Who do you like and why? I like Dallas. And this has been a tough one for me to decide. Here's ultimately what it comes down to. It comes down to the fact that I think these games are going to be close. I don't think these teams are running away from each other. I think their defenses are too good, which will enable you to get back in games

and prevent big, big runs where you fall down 20. I think the games are going to be closer than that, tighter. I think there's going to be a lot of meaningful possessions inside of five minutes to go in the fourth quarter. and if you're telling me that that's what's going to happen and that's the assumption I'm going to make if I'm going off that premise, Kevin, I'm going with the player

that I trust the most, which is Luca. I trust Luca more than any player in the NBA in those situations. He might miss. It's not necessarily because of what you did to him. He doesn't really have

an answer on the other side. There's no scheme and no personnel nothing really affects him. He's so good. He's so big. He's so talented as a scorer as a passer the way he reads the game. He's so smart at getting the ball where he needs to or drawing fouls when he needs to. I trust him more than anybody else in this series.

And if you're telling me these games are going to be tight in the fourth quarter, handful of possessions are going to determine it, then I guess I'm going to put my money on the guy that I trust the most in this situation. How would you defend him in this series? Well, I think here's the thing. Balth is interesting because they virtually never blitz, which means trap the ball on a ball screen, right? They just don't do it.

They don't have to do it because they've got versatility and switchability on their guys. So a ball screen, they switch just about everything. They don't even hard hedge and get over. They literally switch stuff. Even with Prozenghis Horford, they're going to switch. That's what they're going to do. And now I'm very interested to see if you think you can get away with that against Luca Dotsch. I'm going to be very curious to see what kind of numbers he puts up early.

Because I don't say, I don't care who it is. Tatum, Brown, White, Holiday, they're all very good defenders. Holiday, one of the best perimeter defenders of his generation. They're all really good defenders. None of those guys individually are going to be enough to deal with Luca. Jalen Brown has the best chance because he's got the combination of six, seven, size, to go with physical strength. I think strength is the most important quality to guard Luca,

much more so than length and lateral quickness, and you just saw that the way it played out in the playoffs. Luke Dort gave him some problems. Luke Dort is built like a middle linebacker. Jade McDaniels, did Keel Alexander Walker, Tyler Anderson, Anthony Edwards,

those guys aren't built like that. Lucas is hitting you in your chest with his shoulder, or he's getting you on his hip, and he's keeping you on his hip with his off arm and his strength. He's pinning you there so he can just probe down the lane, take his time and make plays. Strength to not give ground to him is more important than length or quickness.

Jalen Brown has the best combination of both. The problem is though if you get Jail and Brown on them more, there's propensity for fouls committed. He's too important to you offensively to allow that to happen. So I'm very curious like you what they're going to do. For them to blitz him, even 15%, that's a significant change over what they've done defensively all year. Now, that's not something you do on the fly,

because there's rotations that come out of that that are very important. You time up. You've got to practice that stuff. They've had a week. So if they are going to blitz him some and selectively blitz him and you're going to have to. He's just too good. They at least have had a whole week to go over that stuff and walk through.

They know where Luke is going to operate from. They know the set. It's not complicated, man. It's a lot of high ball screen, a lot of isolation. That's what he's going to do to you. You know the areas of the forest, and now what you have to go over is where are his teammates position and how are we rotating off of those guys? What are we willing to give up?

And that gives you time a whole week to implement this. And I think you're going to see a mixture, but much less trapping than you have seen other teams do. It's really amazing to watch him. And we've talked a lot about him during the course of the playoffs. And people always want to say, well, who does he play like? The methodical way, the very deliberate way in which he approaches it, like you said, he's able to pin people, he's got a body that's able to work people on his hip, and then he's probing, and he can hit floaters, he can get to the rim, he can hit stepbacks,

and then, of course, I mean, his range is unlimited. It really is so interesting to watch his game. I will just share this with you if I haven't already. his whining and complaining and commitment to it for 48 minutes drives me effing crazy. But I recognize the greatness. But who's ever played like him? I mean, like Hardin plays that way. He just doesn't do it as well, you know, and hasn't in terms of being deliberate

and trying to get you on your back, you know, get the defender on his back. and who's his, you know, historical comp? Yeah, Hardin's a good comp from the standpoint of what's style. Controlling the offense to that extent and style, right? But the difference between Hardin and him is everything Hardin did was based off of a very quick back and forth dribble, three, four times in a row, right? Because rock or dribbles where he now is either going to go into a, step back off of that because you're leaning backwards or you're up a little bit anticipating

that and then that last crossover he is by you quickly that first step and then he slows down so that's kind of how Luca plays he plays but Luca at no point hit you with anything that's very quick it's going to be more a pathocical his dribble is used with a purpose and more often than not he's going to just use his height at the end of it whatever it means a mid-range lean back or deep lean back, finish. It's more the height with hard. It was more, boom, boom, bo, bo, bo, quick separation enough to get into the lane

where he could slow down there for a floater, pocket pass, kickout three or whatever. But at terms of stylistically in one player with that kind of usage rate, in that area of the floor, that is the best comparison. Luke is just a different animal because of the additional size and strength factor

that comes with it and what he could do against bigger guys. But I think there's not really a great comparison historically for the way Luca plays or how effective it's because the other thing, Hard was a great passer. Luca's on a completely different level. Agreed. And the reason is because, again, at 6'8, there's no pass unavailable to him even when he has exhausted opportunities down the lane and he looks like he is surrounded by size. He threw two passes in the Minnesota series. I had to watch several times over again where he went down the left

slot basically toward the rim, jumped in the air as if he was going to shoot. And of course, Minnesota had all kinds of length at that point. You're looking at Goberra in towns or Gober and Naderie, whoever. And he jumped in the air to the point where you couldn't see him anymore,

swallowed up, and he's taking his left hand, and he's wrapping the ball around those defenders at the rim and throwing a bullet, it to the right wing. To a shooter that hit him dead in the numbers.

One time they made it, one time they missed it, the only player in the NBA capable of making that play. Even, and the other guys that are even in that category, LeBron, you've got to have size, Frank, vision, all that. Luke is the only guy in people making that pass. And so it's because

he has that extra advantage of 6'8, I have reached, I can go around you. I have 6'8 height. I put the ball up off my head. I can throw the ball from left wing to the right corner on a rope before you can react on the back line to give that guy, PJ Washington, an open three rather than contest three. I could

throw a perfectly timed lot at the exact second that would you go bare to side. He thinks I'm shooting it. I held it long enough to get him to finally commit to me. And as soon as he jumps up throwing it behind his head for a lob dunked glider. Like, his ability to manipulate you, I call him late

fines. There's never been a player in history of this league that's better. at the late find when it looks like there's nothing there than Luca Donkutche. And that could be a lob. It could be a kickout free. It could be a pocket pass to somebody. He is incredible at making you pay at the end of his possession when it looks like there's nothing there. And he's a master at it. And that's why he controls defenses that always has you thinking and second guessing and waiting to commit because you're going to get beat. You're going to give up something easy once you do. And he's just, he's incredible with the way

He reads that. So you just mentioned the words making you pay. This is where I think you can potentially affect his performance, and that is you've got to make him work and make him pay with, you know, effort on the defensive end, which I didn't think Minnesota did very well. But Boston can do it. How important is that in, you know, minimizing what? what he ends up giving, you know, your team offensively. Well, the only thing I'll say to that is, okay, so I'm not sure how we do that, because Tatum and Brown obviously are guys that are going to put you in into tough spots

guarding those guys with a live dribble where they go one-on-one and they can get into the paint. So he's not going to guard either one of them. Well, he's going to have to sometimes because of switches, but my point was like, that's not, that's certainly not the plan for Dallas. Right. What you can do is to get a lot less action if he's guarding Derek White and Drew Holiday in terms of that stuff. Now, look, Holiday, he could take off the double. He could back you down on the post.

Lucas's strength and size. He's not going to worry about True Holiday. Rod is not going to beat you and beat Luke in this series. Derek White, same thing. Very capable of having good scoring games of being that supplemental offense on a given night. And with Derek White scored 20 plus, they're really hard to beat. But it's not near the amount of pressure being put on you with a live dribble. So Luke is going to be okay in that situation.

Now, the ball screen stuff, if he's guarding Derek White or Drew Holiday, that's, I don't think you're going to get crushed if you switch that, and Luca has to guard Presagus or Horford. He's strong enough, and those guys are not big-time post players. They're not going to roll him down to the post and just take him to the bullshit. You know, so he's not going to get beat up that much with those switches. Now that means you end up with lively or Gafford. out on the perimeter against

Derek White or Jew holiday. That's not ideal, but it's again, these aren't super high-volume scorers that you're worried about. Now, the bigger scenario is Tatum Brown ball screen with Porzingis and getting these switches,

now you have a center guarding one of those two guys. That's a good problem for Dallas. We're going to see how that plays out ultimately, but you're going to see Dallas do a good amount of switching in this as well. Derek Jones, PJ, PJ, Washington, certainly the two primary guys you want on Haydham and Brown, but you're going to have to have

Kyrie avoid that as much as possible because of the size component. Luca, you know, you're definitely going to get some switches where he's got those guys or a cross-match and transition. He's going to have to do his share work against those two players, but you're going to avoid it as much as you can

and then try to let the switching be advantageous to you. By that, I mean this. You also don't want to switch 35 feet from the basket on innocuous ball screen. I see too many teams do that. It's super disadvantageous to you. It makes no sense to me. In other words, if you've got Derek Jones on Jason Tatum,

and that's the matchup you want, and Jason Tatum comes across half screen, comes across half court at Horford sets a pick 38 feet from the bucket, and clearly Tatea's not shooting the ball. Why would you switch that? But I see teams do it all the time. Don't do that. There's plenty of room there to go under.

Go under. No under the other side. Yeah, just go under the screen, meet him on the other side. So I think they have to be very selective, how they switch so you don't end up in a really disadvantageous situations with Luke and Kyrie on these guys. But I think both teams are going to do certainly more than their share of switching in this series because they do have a lot of like components on the perimeter.

By the way, as you were talking, I was thinking about something. You know, when did switching every single screen start? Because it wasn't that way 25, 30 years ago. Was it that way when you were in the league? I mean, it seemed... No, not at all. Not at all. When did it start?

When I played, it was incredibly rare, and part of the reason for that, every team had two legitimate bigs on the court at all times. Right, so you couldn't. You couldn't. Much more difficult for those guys to switch as much out on the perimeter guard.

Guards, it was also much more difficult for guards. And by the way, those guys in that era could score in the post. You can't take a chance of switching a two guard at 6, 4, 6, 6, 6, 5, onto a 6-10 player that's going to run them down to the block and destroy them. So it was different. The threes, the shrinking of the lineups.

So there's more guys on the court that are similarly sized, which are label switching. And I think, I don't know when exactly it kicked in, but at some point, some team, some players started to do it. And it's easier. It is easier. No doubt. And look, and the players want the easy road. Right.

They want the easy path. It's a hell of a lot easier than what Tom Tibido used to coach in Chicago where Joe Kim Noah was jumping out super early on all the ball screens. His guy was setting with no intention of switching. His intention was jump out early, which means I got to be super far out on the court. I got to hustle out there because when this guy comes off the screen, I need to be above the screen. But I would force that ball handler to veer toward half court for one dribble.

And as soon as he did that, I could turn a sprint back to my guy under the basket. And you're asking an awful lot of your big to defend that way. And at some point, somebody along the way just decide, hey, this is a hell of a lot easier. Why don't we just switch this? And we'll go from there. And then combined with the prevalence of the three-point shot and the way that more and more teams are four perimeter players on the court all the time, it just seemed like it made more sense to do that rather than try to teach hedge and over or under and make guys on a ball screen defend that hard.

You can just switch it. And even if sometimes that means you give up some stuff for a little bit, it's okay. They're doing it to us on the other end, and we're taking advantage of them too. That's kind of the way you started to view it. I mean, I can remember, you know, just switching every screen under five seconds, you know,

under seven seconds, but never until, you know, 10, 15 years ago, seeing it done all the time. All right, I wanted, I heard you say this, other day and I actually totally agree with this and talked about it on the show and that is back to Luca for a moment. You know, people are, you know, creatures of, you know, recency bias and you said it, you know, offensively. I mean, it's hard to think of anybody that we've ever seen like him. He's having an all-time postseason. But this sport is measured with rings.

I mean, it's so much different than football. He has to win it, right? For people to be fair to call him the best offensive player in the game or the best player or one of the best two or three players in the game. I mean, it's been fluid here. I mean, a year ago, we were gushing over Yokic and thinking that he would win several more. A year later, it's now Luca. So a quick, you know, minute on that. Yep.

Yeah, no, listen, and I just had this conversation this morning about this topic, because that's a big deal, big deal, right? We always wanted to say who's the best player in the NBA is. Sometimes it's a real, real general consensus in one direction. Sometimes it's very debatable, and this is going on forever. And I think right now we're sitting here with Luca. I already believe he is the most dominant offensive player in the NBA. I think he'd be first.

I think Joel Embed would be second. but I think Luca, and look, he's not just, you know, the numbers back it up. He just broke the record for offense creation, the scoring or assisting in one season in terms of percentage of his team's points. He just did that this year. So that's the extent to which this guy's dominating. But here's the thing, when you have a guy that's with three out of four MVP's and has a title that he just won a year ago,

it does seem a little bit premature to give the label best player to Luca. when he has not won an MVP yet, and he hasn't won a title. Right. That just seems a little premature when we got a guy that's won three MVP in four years, and very close to winning four in a row, by the way, and has won a title just a year ago. So I think this is important for Luca. And here's what I think it's going to happen. First of all, I think even if he doesn't win, Kevin, he has set the stage. Luca Donchitz is going to be the MVP the league next year, if he stays healthy,

no matter what happens in this series. that's where he's at now. He needed to get into the conversation. Like, this is what he's capable of. He had this kind of historical offensive year. Now, Dallas next year, they can't win 49 games. They've got to win 56 games. Let's say they do that.

You're in the top three discussion in the West. That's enough now. Because this year, I think the win gap was too great between Denver and Oklahoma City and him. So as a result, he finished his third, which is probably where he should have finished. I said this all along. If he had had two more weeks, three more weeks the way Dallas was playing, he might have run down those guys for MVP. Yeah, they were rolled.

Because of the wind gap, which is closed, right? But the wind gap's significant when you've got two other great candidates. Now I think he has set the stage next year if they have enough team success in Dallas. This guy's going to be the MVP. To be regarded then as the best player in the league,

if they win this title, that will be the general topic of conversation. Going in the next season is that Lucidontes is the best player in the NBA. I believe that if they win this title. All right. And you think they will in how many games? Yeah, I think they will.

I think when you're talking about the road team, typically, you go six, right? Because otherwise you're saying we'd have seven on the road. In most cases, I would say I would never go that route. This is the one exception. Luca Donchich in a game seven in Boston, I still have more faith in Luca Donchitz than any player on the floor. So he's proven it. He's proven it what he's cable under pressure situations. So I think, for me, six or seven, either way.

But I think ultimately I am banking on Luca in clutch situations. and by the way, his running made pretty damn good and clutch situations too. Kyrie Irving has a track record of coming through in big ways in pressure moments as well. So when you got him there as well to kind of help carry the load, it's not all about you with the heavy lifting.

That's what it comes down to for me. So whatever, six or seven. I wouldn't, if they go to a game seven, it's three-three, and I pick Dallas to win the series. I'm going to feel confident Dallas can win that game. We've spent no time talking about Kyrie Irving, and he is a major storyline in these finals, but maybe we'll do that at some point down the road because the audience listening to this

actually would prefer to hear what you have to say about Jaden Daniels and your favorite football team. So we will do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, most of us are interested in our mental and physical well-being to a certain degree. And with that in mind, I'd like to welcome and introduce a new sponsor. to the podcast. The new sponsor is Unified Healing, Unified spelled U-N-I-F-Y-D healing. It doesn't matter if you're a big-time world-class athlete or just a somewhat athletic podcaster like me. We all understand the importance of mental and physical well-being and proper recovery for top-notch performance. That's why I'm excited that Unified Healing is sponsoring the podcast now.

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qualified health care providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EE system. We'll continue with Tim Legler here in a moment, but I do want to mention that this segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag or MyBooky.com. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and MyBooky will take good care of you with a cash bonus on your. your initial deposit. They've got everything you need for the NBA finals. The series price right now, Boston is a minus 2.30 favorite. That means if you bet the Mavericks, you get plus 185 coming back the other way. So 100 wins you $185 if they win the NBA finals. You can bet game one tomorrow

night. Boston minus six and a half. That means they are a six and a half point favorite. And then they've got tons of prop bets. You know, you want to bet a certain team and a certain number of games. If Tim's right and Dallas wins in six and you bet the Mavericks to win the series four games to two, it pays plus 550. So a $100 bet on the Mavericks to win in six wins you $550. They have plenty of prop bets for this upcoming series. You can bet on the MVP. You can bet on the player that makes the most three pointers in this series. Go to mybooky.ag or mybooky.com. You must use my promo code, Kevin DC, to qualify for a cash bonus on your initial deposit. All right, we have talked a lot about the team, but not on the show. I know you were a Drake May guy there for a while,

but how do you feel about Daniels right now? Hasn't played a game. We all understand that. But how do you feel about number five, Jaden Daniels, as your quarterback? Worried, worried, because of his frame. I just think the NFL is a different deal.

He played at a program typically where he had, the superior size, strength, speed, athletic ability up front protecting him and creating a very safe environment. Washington's offensive line, last year in past protection was an abomination. And you're now asking a guy that's, hey, granted, more mobility, certainly than we had at the position a year ago, but still the threat of being hit by guys that big that fast at that level when you don't have great protection and you're breaking off plays and you're trying to run and you're trying to create stuff with that frame and that size I'm worried about it as far as is you know it's assuming that doesn't happen and he's able to avoid that I don't know enough about him Kevin yet at that level I just don't

man. If you talk to all of the NFL analysts at the ESPN, which is kind of who I go to to pick their brains, these guys I work with, I trust, I like, I think they're really good at their job. There's a bunch of them, so I can always get different opinions from guys. If you go back and look at the last month leading up to the draft,

show me where there was a consensus on how they should have played out. I mean, there are people that didn't even think Caleb Williams to go one. He did. That seemed like a foregone conclusion. So then the conversation became all about two-three, Jane Daniels, Drake May. That became the conversation.

And if you could go and listen to, if you listen to Tim Hasselbeck, a friend of mine, guy I think he's really smart, he's like Drake May is going to be a fud. He's going to be a hall of fame. He's going to be incredible. Jane Daniels didn't feel as well about it. If you go talk to Lou Riddick,

he loved Jane Daniels. Love him. So these are experts, man, and they couldn't really come close to agreeing. So how hell would I know? All I know is I'm worried about his frame. I need to see what this offense looks like in ways that they, are they going to construct an offense that plays to his strengths and protects him?

Because I don't think they did that at all a year ago. And I did understand the lack of adjustment throughout the season with that offensive line. And I just feel like for Sam, that was a travesty, and a miscarriage of justice done to him. And I'm not saying the guy is going to be a great NFL quarterback going forward. I just think that they gave him no chance to succeed with that line and that offensive play calling. So let's see what this offensive coordinator has in mind, the head coach has in mind, what are they going to do to protect him better, what's the play calling going to look like

to give this guy's best chance to succeed so he doesn't. Isn't back there trying to win games by running around improvising and get slaughtered? That's where I'm at right now, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt like I have pretty much every single guy we've drafted in my lifetime. What was your reaction to Dan Quinn being hired as the head coach? Yeah, I mean, it was a little bit like a deflating, I guess, because of how hard, right now his name is escaping me. Ben Johnson.

Ben Johnson. You know, that was like, right? And I don't know much about that either. Like, I'm not an expert in this area. So, but I'm hearing this guy is the guy. You know, I'm thinking, man, we could get this young stud head coach that could be there for a while, man. and super creative offensively.

And, you know, I was so confident. And it was like, that's the guy we were going after. That's who we were targeting. And I was so excited about that. So then you hear that it's a fallback on a guy that, hey, he went to a Super Bowl as a head coach, but he also had, you know, rough goal of it before he got fired in Atlanta. So you're like, okay, now he goes to Dallas,

and this is a team, had a very good defense, but also had a horrible end to their season defensively. So, you know, I'm sitting there kind of going out a little bit, feels a little bit like a retread higher, like, this is who we want, and couldn't get him, so we're going to settle for this. This is, like, safe. And so I'm not going to lie. I wasn't like, I wasn't like jumping for joy. I wasn't like super excited. Again, given the benefit of that.

You know how it felt about Ron Rivera by the time Ron Rivera left really even way before he left. I mean, pretty early on, actually. So it's got to be an upgrade from that. I mean, it has to be a guy that looks like he's awake on the sideline. I mean, I know that. I mean, you know, I'm not going to get 32 zoom-in shots of a guy standing there was armfold with sunglasses. That drove you nuts.

I know I'm not getting that. Yeah, you did not handle that well. Couldn't stand it. I took pictures of the TV, so I'd have screenshots in my phone that I would remember how angry I was about that. Look, I'm not saying you've got to be raw, rah, raw running up at the sidelines, okay? I think of Suryonic drives me nuts, too. He acts like a frat boy sometimes, and that drives me nuts, too.

I'm not talking about that. But the lack of complete, just totally devoid of any emotion over there just blew my mind. I just don't know what exactly are you doing. You know, so that's kind of what frustrated me. I never thought we ever made right decisions about when to go for it when not. Like the stuff that he was responsible for, I always had a problem with. So look, hopefully Dan Quinn, it doesn't frustrate me in that way. And that Cliff Kingsbury is a big part of this as well.

And let's see what they run to take advantage of what we have. And I know this is the last point I'm going to say on this. If I don't see Terry McCorn targeted in the first two possessions every game, then it's going to be a problem. That's going to be a problem. It's all I'm going to say. They might have to get security up there to my section because there's going to be a problem. But you'll be at the games.

You're committed. You got season tickets coming back. And I caught a break. I caught a break. What break? Game one, game one is on the road in Tampa. Right. I now have a home in Tampa.

So you're going to go down there for the opener. That's a road game I normally wouldn't have seen. Now I will be in the building in Tampa to see the start of the Jaden Daniela. Can't wait. Sunday, September 8th, 425. Late afternoon kickoff for that one, so hopefully it won't be as hot. Thanks for doing this. Great to catch up.

Hope you're well, and I will talk to you soon. Yeah, man, if you want, let's reconnect. This series could take 18 days to play. So let's connect, let's connect if you want. If it's 2-2 or something, maybe we can revisit this and see some of the stuff we talked about, how it's played out. Always love having you on. Thanks, Tim.

All right, Kevin, you got it. Tim Legler, everybody. Always good to catch up with him. He's great. He really is. I think he is the best X's and O's analyst by far among their NBA guys at ESPN. All right. Done for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.