The Kevin Sheehan Show - Quinton Dunbar: Trade, Release, Extend?

Episode Date: February 11, 2020

Kevin is back from Utah. Thom joined him. They talked about Quinton Dunbar's "trade or release" demand. The boys discussed ESPN's Mike Greenberg's criticism of the Redskins' handling of Dwayne Haskins. They talked XFL, MLB postseason changes, the Terps, and Phillip Rivers too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yep, I'm here. Aaron's here and Tom is here, coughing his way right in front of me onto this show. You claim you're getting better. And I know, I've been with you for long enough period of time to know when you're really sick. And then when you are getting better, you still sound terrible and you look terrible. But I know you've been with you. You know, I've been with you for long enough period of time to know when you're really sick. And then when you are getting better. You still sound terrible. And you look terrible. But I know, but I know you've you're feeling better. Yes. So it's good that you're back. I'm back. You know, I wasn't here. I missed Thursday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Monday. I was out west in Utah.

You were missed. Well, I don't know about that, but I'll tell you, I was at one of those beautiful places. Where were you? We were in Park City, Deer Valley, that area, and out there for a wedding. My niece got married, but, you know, there's a lot of skiing, and it snowed from the moment we got there. and there was there were blue skies bluebird days as they call it out there for the skiers um and there was a bluebird day a blue sky day sunny day on sunday but every other moment there was snow we haven't seen any of it here locally so and you know how much i love snow they had

feet of snow i mean they've had four or five feet in the last few weeks of snow and while we were there I don't know. They probably had six, seven, eight inches, you know, here and there. But it was... Did you ski? So my boys did. The one day that we could ski was Sunday. And I woke up not feeling like myself after the Saturday night wedding.

Oh, okay. And I just... Plus, I would have had to rent all the equipment and get all the gear. And I was just like, you know, I think... because Kara wasn't going to ski. Whatever you're doing, I'll just hang out with you today. Let's go for a ride. We went to Olympic Park that day.

Okay. You know, we did various things, but the boys skied on that day. But you do ski, right? Yes. But we're not a big skiing family. Like I have a lot of friends who, you know, every year they're going out to Colorado or Utah. We're not that. We've always been a family that if we go away, you know, when the kids were young for a

spring break or something. We're going somewhere warm. Warm is usually better for the shians. Now, let me ask you this. Yes. If you had to take a guess, am I a skier or not? You're not a skier. No, not a skier. No, but you would enjoy, well, you don't like, you don't love cold weather.

But, you know, a lot of the skiing vacation is sort of the lodge. Oh, I know. You know. I do know that. Yeah. And I know where you were because I was out there for the 2002, uh, Winter Olympics. Right.

Although I was only at the ski competition for one day. Usually, I just like to stay close to base. Yeah, that's your move for Olympics. You were in a hotel, you were probably in a bar. No. With your laptop open, following the events and coming up with some sort of angle on something that you didn't have to be live at an event for, like you did in Sydney. Salt Lake City is not Sydney.

No. It's not a party town. No, it is not. You know what? It's, it's, Park City, Dear Valley, for those of you who haven't been there, some of you probably have. It is one of those beautiful places. You know, it's just spectacular. The scenery and it was a beautiful wedding, too. But I enjoy being in those ski places. The skiing isn't my top priority like it is for some people. I like the other aspects. I like Opry ski, you know, as much as the skiing itself. But we had a good time. Could you? It was good time. It was good to be with family and everybody had a good time.

Could you ever see yourself living out west? Well, I almost lived in two places out west many years ago. Almost moved to Seattle, very close in 1990 to moving to Seattle. The company that I was with was basically going to relocate to Seattle. We were within a month of doing it. but then, long story short, the CEO's wife got pregnant. It wasn't going to be the smoothest of pregnancies, apparently, and they wanted to stay here with their doctor set,

and that changed the whole plan. But we were really close to moving to Seattle and sort of close to moving to San Francisco at one point. I would have loved to have lived in the Bay Area. I've always loved the Bay Area. I know it's not the same as it used to be for a lot of reasons. And then I think I've told you this, but I didn't live in Boston, but I commuted to Boston up and back Monday, up Monday, back Friday for like 20 months. And we almost moved there, too.

You know, Boston's not out west. You do know that. I do know that. Okay, so try to keep up. Try to stick with the topic. Yeah. So those were the two things. And I would have been thrilled to have lived in either one of those two places.

When I was getting out of college, I was a senior in college, and I had already been working at a week. newspaper in Strasbourg for about a year and when the editor went on vacation I actually ran the paper so that he was a friend with a weekly newspaper editor in Crestabu, Colorado, a real big ski town I mean it next to Gunnison, Colorado one of the coldest places in the United States and this editor wanted to take a leave of absence and he hired he was going to hire me to run the paper for a year. So we, I was about to get married. We were going to get married in June, but we had to go leave in January to go out to do this. So we moved up our wedding to January.

I was leaving school a semester early. I was leaving like 12 credits short. And I was going to go live in Cresta, Bue, Colorado. Really? And run this paper for a year. And then a month before all this happened, he sold the paper. So it all ended. It didn't. It didn't. happen and 10 years later driving across the country I stopped in Cresta Butte and spent the night there and had a great time and drinking at the wooden nickel bar. My life would have been tremendously different in a town like Crestabute. Oh yeah. I mean it was it was a town full of skiers and burnt out roadies. Yeah. That was pretty much what it was. Yeah and even the skiers are burnt out to a certain degree as well. Um yeah. Yeah, I, I,

I mean, I'm not a West guy, though. I'm an East guy. I think both of us are sort of East Coast people. I, and I, I'm so glad that I still live on the East Coast. But I, you know, it's funny time you. So Friday morning, you know, being on the clock that I'm on, I was up super early Utah time. Like really early.

You know, like it was 2.33 a.m. I was up wide awake, not being able to move. And so at about five, I just got in the car and started driving around. It was snowing pretty hard, and I like going out when it's snowing. Yeah. You know, and, you know, I was struck by just the lack of anything being opened. You know, like the coffee joints weren't even opening until 7 a.m. Now, there was a Starbucks that was opening at 6 a.m.

But I had to literally wait to get coffee. There wasn't even a gas station. So there wasn't like a 7-Eleven or a circle K. Not a 7-Eleven? Not nothing. And, you know, I do remember sort of this. And I'm probably wrong about this. It's got to be a Mormon thing.

There's just less, no. Now, the work ethic, you know, and the employment rate in Salt Lake City is phenomenal. And the work, you know, the service industry is incredible. Like when, because I had a client in Salt Lake City and I was out there many times in the mid-90s, Harmon's supermarkets. There were, there smaller chain. Smiths was the big chain. Albertsons was out there.

We had a contract with Harmans and they're very well known in Salt Lake City. So I was out there a lot. And, I mean, first-rate work ethic, the whole thing. But it just starts later, I think. This was a Friday morning. And, yeah, there was a lot of snow, but it wasn't, you know, they clear it. They're professional snow removers. Not like Dallas.

Not like Dallas at all. And I'm thinking to myself, God, around here, like, you know, if you need coffee at any time a day, you can go find coffee. Yes. I have to wait until 6 a.m. to get coffee. So there was no eye-hop open anywhere? No, nothing. You know, when I was down in Park City, I drove further down, you know, towards an area that had a big, you know, shopping mall.

It was just, look, there are more type A's on the East Coast than on the West, out west, probably. I guess so. I guess so. And they must go to bed early out there. It's gorgeous out there. And I did go through the Olympic Park area, which was, you know, down. Now, I have a question for you. was the Olympic village?

It was in Salt Lake City. I thought it was because the Olympic Park where the bobsled and the luge and the ski jumping and a lot of those things was not actually in Deer Valley. It was just below Park City, this huge area. And I didn't see anything that resembled what could have been an Olympic village. No, it was Salt Lake City. Did you enjoy those Olympics? No, that was my least favorite Olympics.

Was it really cold? Well, it was cold, but it was. Salt Lake City. Yeah. You know, I'd been to Japan. I'd been to Australia. Yeah. You know, Salt Lake City didn't hold any...

I can see that. Or lure for me. And the one thing I remember about it, one thing, that was, Mitt Romney saved those Olympics. I know he did. Because of all the corruption, they were on the verge of collapsing. And the other thing I remember is the mayor going on TV, pleading with residents to come downtown to eat at the restaurants because they were ever. See, this is one of the secrets about this.

More people leave a city when the Olympics are there than come in. And businesses always take a beating. And the restaurants down there that had hired extra help on the promise that they were going to be counting their money, we're getting killed. That's what happens in the Olympics when you host them. Right. All right, enough about that. You were at the Caps game last night? Yes, I was.

So what's wrong with them? Is it goaltending or is it defense? It's not goaltending because they had two different goaltenders. I know they did. And they had the same outcome. Yeah, and Holpey actually played well when he came in. Yeah, you know, it's ironic. Or Sampanov or however you're pronouncing.

It's ironic. You know, Holpey shut them out and he should get credit for a shutout, even though he's only in half a game. And if he did, then he would have the new franchise record for shutouts among goalies. Right now he's tied with Owe-Colsig for career shutouts. So, but that's not the way they score it. And that's not the mark people are talking about. No, I know.

700 goals would be the one. Seven hundred goals. What was interesting, I was, I was with Barry Trots at his post-game press conference, and you can tell he was enjoying all of it, not just the fact that they won, but the fact that, and nothing against Ovi, but the fact that everybody in the building seemed obsessed with this milestone, and they didn't get there. Trots has seen the milestone caps before. See, this used to be the capitals.

They used to celebrate milestones. You know, Ovi got to this number. Backstrom got to this number. They'd have a big ceremony before the game. And then they would lose in the first round of the playoffs. Right. You know, but that was the milestone caps. Yeah.

And these are supposed to be the Stanley Cup caps. You know, they left that behind. And, you know, they've made a big deal about Ovi getting the seven-hound. and I certainly understand that. I think what, there's only five or six other players who have gotten to 700 or more? It would be seven others, right? Seven others, okay.

So I understand a big deal about it, but it's starkly reminiscent of the caps before they won the Stanley Cup, placing so much importance on these individual milestones. So I think, I think, seven others. When he gets Gartner's ahead of, him in seventh place with 700

8 goals. Yeah, so he should probably pass him. So I think Trots kind of enjoyed the whole scene, the fact that they won, and the fact that they denied the caps their milestone night. Even though he loves Ovi. And, you know, he said, and he's right, you know, Ovi'll get it.

And actually, Trots predicted, and it's nothing, it doesn't cost them anything to do this, he predicted that he'll break Gretzky's record someday. Well, there's no doubt, I mean, we've done the math on this, that if he stays healthy and has average years for him in the next two, he's going to break Gordie Howe. He's going to pass Gordy Howe for a second.

He needs four solid Ovechkin like years to really chase down Gretzky. That's going to be harder, but he's got a chance to do it, certainly. But if he stays healthy, number two is almost a lock for Ovechkin. Now, they thought he had $699 last night in the game. It turned out. I mean, you know, basically it was a funny scene. seen in the press box because some people tweeted it out right away, but then other people realized that it hadn't been official yet who scored the goal.

So other people held off on it. So everybody was screaming and yelling at each other. Was it a Kobe Bryant reporting situation? Well, it wasn't quite like that. But people were yelling at each other. Who scored it? What was a goal? You know, I'm sitting next to AP, and they're frantic because they're the ones that have to get

it out quick. and right away, and they don't know what to say. Right. Because it took a while. Who right? That was Stephen Wino, very good reporter. And, you know, it took a while to get the official word that it was Carlson. Right.

That got credit for the goal. So that kind of took the air out of everybody's sales. And the bigger issue for the caps is, you know, they're not playing their game. They're not playing the game that they think they're capable. of playing, but what is? It's February. It's the NHL. It doesn't matter where they go in. They're going to be in the playoffs. Yes. I mean, it'd be really hard, even though their division is exceptional. Yes, it would be really hard for them to fall out of playoff contention. I don't think anyone's talking about that. And so who cares if they're the two-seed or the four-seat or the

three? I mean, last year, all top four, the top four seats in the east, they all went down in the first round. They've got the experience. They're going to be a threat when we get to the playoffs more likely than not. I don't know if the islanders are better or Boston's better. Tampa now is as hot as anybody. I don't know how the caps match up with them necessarily, but it seems to never really matter. Well, here's the hangover question. And the caps have no one to blame but themselves. They had a coach who won the Stanley Cup and they didn't pay them. Right. And they went and hired a guy. with no NHL.

You're rooting for Trotsie. Well, no, I'm not. Yeah, you are. No, I'm not. If the caps don't do it, you'd like to see Trotsey do it. Well, yeah, if the caps don't do it. Stick it to Ted. Yeah, I would like that.

But, I mean, look, I like Todd Reardon. Seems like a very nice guy. Seems like a good coach. But, you know, I mean, Bruce Boudreau seemed the same way. Seemed like a nice guy and a good coach. And he hasn't gotten to the Stanley Cup. What do you think the big differences between Trotsy and Reardon? as coaches.

I have no idea. Why would you ask me that? I was just curious if you would have... I tell you why, I got one. I was waiting for you to bullshit an answer, and I was just going to say, you have no idea. No, I do have one.

What? One's taller than the other. Todd Rearine is significantly taller than Barry Trots. Yeah, well, sure. Than all, you know, sideways trots. He's farther away from the ice. So it's more difficult for him to coach the game. You get what you ask for.

Yeah, well, I was actually expecting for one of your, you know, one of your answers that talks about, you know, getting pucks and traffic in front of the net. That's what I was expecting. But we didn't, we didn't get to there. All right. Yesterday, Quentin Dunbar, which I think a lot of people want us to talk about, Quentin Dunbar decided to publicly state that he wants to be traded or released. There are a couple of things to this. Let me start with this, because I don't, I don't think we've talked about this because we haven't been together since a week ago, I guess, was the last show. And you called me. A week ago, Tuesday, yeah. Yeah. So I don't understand personally why this February 10th magical date with Ron Rivera. You know, yesterday was the date that the

off-season plan, we're going to be getting together. We're going to start really getting after it with the roster and making decisions. And I don't know why, and I'm not suggesting that they haven't been working since he got hired. I know they have. I know that they've been watching a lot of tape and having a lot of conversations. Apparently, they haven't made any calls to Trent Williams. No, they haven't. And this is when I first brought it up last week. I said, seriously, you've been here for a month now? And no one's reached out to Trent Williams? I don't understand that. I don't understand this magic of February 10th and the whole starting. I get it. I understand what the reason for it is. Because that's the day after the XFL made its debut. Okay, we'll get to the XFL.

Ron Rivera didn't want to miss the first week of XFL football. Well, and I know that he has certainly enjoyed some moments on the boat. You know, I think that he's enamored with a lot of the, you know, the big money toys. Uh-oh. You know, and I, Tommy, I have all the confidence and I'm very optimistic about Ron Rivera. So don't take this the wrong way. I also know what you and many other people will warn everybody about. And that is, it's never gone well for anybody that's come here, even the highest quality of people.

Yes. And, you know, I think he's probably in this first month been caught up in a lot of the Dan stuff, probably. You know, I don't know that for sure. I know that he spent some days on the boat, you know, during Super Bowl week. you know, and there's a whole lot of Mr. Snyder going around, you know, in the first month. I just think in the first few days, one of, at the top of the priority list would have been, I'm going to call one of the best left tackles in football, who's had a major problem with the organization and try to find out what his position is, see if this is part of our future or not.

And he admitted last week or eight, nine days ago, hadn't even talked to him. Yes. You know, and then we get Quentin Dunbar. And I'm not going to let Quentin Dunbar off the hook. Don't get me wrong. But I wonder why a guy like Quentin Dunbar at a position that is a major need position, major need. He's their best quarterback. He's their only quarterback.

And he's the only legitimate player that you are likely going to have on the roster that can start and play, because you're going to cut Josh Norman. I just wonder why someone like that hasn't been reached out to either. But you know what? They're moving to a new area. I mean, takes a while for the moving vans to get everything in, for everything to get unpacked and to find the house and to do everything and to get organized. February 10th, yesterday was the day.

The problem is it probably came a couple of days too late to stop Quentin Dunbar from going public with, I haven't talked to these people, I want out. Now, it's not a good move from Quentin Dunbar because, first of all, he's not available enough to be making demands. He played in seven games two years ago, 11 games last year. He's played in 18 of the 32 potential games. He gets hurt. He's injury prone. He's had a leg nerve problem.

Yeah, so you've got a guy who definitely can play the position. He is a starting NFL cornerback. He's not elite, all right? He's a good player. One of the Jay Gruden's success stories. One of the Doc Walker all-time calls. You know, Doc loves sort of those people that no one's paying attention to in training camp. and I'll never forget when he got converted to corner.

He said, this guy could be a good corner. He's got long arms. He's got range. He's got real good instincts. And he was right about him. And he has all that. He's played very well. I personally can't stand when somebody goes public like that. I think it could be a reflection

is something that you don't want in this culture. But I'm also not going to suggest that they cut off their nose to spite their face because it's a position of need. He can really. play. And I know that people like Quentin Dunbar and that they respect Quentin Dunbar. And he's sort of an overachiever, you know, definitely. And that this may have just been a bad moment. So I'm just going to sit back and trust Ron Rivera and how he handles this because I got no other choice. I don't have enough of, you know, sort of the relationship thing and what they really feel about Quentin.

Because for all we know, they may say, you know what, dude's got a bit of a loose screw. And, you know, he could be a problem now that he's become a decent player, and this isn't the culture we're trying to create. Or they might say, look, he's really good, he was frustrated, we hadn't reached out to him. We probably should have called him to say, hey, we're working on this stuff. We're going to get with your agent, because he does deserve an extension. It's the right thing for the football team to do to extend him at this point in time. He shouldn't be playing next year, even though he signed a deal. But this is a guy 28 years old.

I would think they would want him on the roster. You don't want him to play next year and then become an unrestricted free agent. You should be thinking about extending him anyway. Not at an elite contract level for the position, but he's going to demand some money. So I don't know. I don't, I'm not of the position of, okay, you want out, see you later. We got a new culture in town. But I'm also not at the point where, you know what, it's just, you know, the young people, this is what they do. And they'll be fine. Just go sign them. Give him what he wants. I'm not there either. I'm just sort of going to sit and watch and see how Ron Rivera handles it because they know a lot more about him and the personality than we do.

You know, and the bigger picture here is Ron Rivera and how he's handling these issues right now. People who I respect who have taken over new jobs, whether it's baseball or football or even basketball over the years, the first thing on their list is to either call everybody, everybody on the team or else visit people. Go visit them physically. This is the first order of business. See what you're working with. Yes.

See who you're working with. Yes. I mean, go face. And particularly your team leaders go face to face. Go visit these people. You know, tell damn, to spare one of his airplanes and fly around visiting these people instead of instead of fishing off the yacht you know I don't know if he's crabbing off the yacht

are they craven I don't think so that would be a long drop of a crab line but so I mean it's kind of surprising that they haven't undertaken this particularly since you know Ron Rivera you know we've been told seems to be calling all the shots so I mean I would think it would just be incumbent on him to have reached out, not just the Trent Williams, but to have met and, or at least if not met, spoken to everybody on the, you know, of any value on the roster. So as you're talking, Aaron hands me this from Ian Rappaport moments ago, all right, 1040 a.m. Here on February 11th, a potentially significant development for the Redskins. franchise left tackle Trent Williams and new coach Ron Rivera have touched base for what sounded

like a positive conversation I'm told the next step would be for Williams to come in to visit but the two sides are now communicating but but why why didn't they do that in first week I don't because I'm with you like yeah I and I don't I'm sure there's a lot of things and maybe this is Rivera maybe this is Rivera style he's you know he wants people to sort of be you know hanging out there sort of anxious over it, you know, and that he's not going to sit there and butter you up and kowtow to you and tell you how great you are, that he's trying to figure everything out before he meets with you.

I don't know what his style is. Can he do that in person? I don't know. But Trent Williams would have been, I think, one of the first conversations, but it's not too late, you know? No, it's not too late for Dunbar either. But again, from a purely strategic point of view, the only meaning they should be doing with Trent Williams is to figure out,

where to trade them. I mean, that's what they should be doing. I agree with that. I wish they would be thinking about that. But then again, they don't have a left tackle either. No, they don't. And I don't think that this news that Ian Rappaport just broke. And remember, it's Ian Rappaport.

So, you know, it's sort of a 50-50 deal there with him. But if the report is accurate, then it's not an indication definitely, you know, talking doesn't mean that you're still not going to trade him at some point. You still could trade him. Because, you know, the thing about Trent Williams that we still don't know is we don't know whether or not the surgery that he had, the multiple surgeries that he had, will impact him physically. Couldn't get a helmet on when he got back in December.

That was the story. I know. The other part of this, too, is just when it comes to contracts and reaching out to agents and potentially in the case, of Quentin Dunbar reaching up to other teams and in the case of Trent Williams for a possible trade. Who's doing that right now?

Well, it should be Ron Rivera with the help of Greg Smith. Kyle Smith. Kyle Smith. I think it's probably a combination of Kyle Smith, Ron Rivera, and Rob Rogers. The new cat guy from Carolina.

I think that that's probably the combination. But right now, I mean, we're under the impression that Ron Rivera is calling those shots. And I think most Redskins fans are fine with that. Yes. Yeah, I'm fine with that. And that's why, I mean, like a lot of times we're supposed to be sort of, well, what do you think?

You think they should trade them or re-sign them? I don't know. What is Ron think? I mean, I'm not exactly what is Ron through. Tell me what Ron thinks, and I'm with him on that one. I mean, you don't want to see a guy get a little. bit, you know, of an inflated ego over a lot of things like pro football focus numbers that indicated that his performance last year in the 11 games he played was like top three or four

in the NFL at the position. And I'm sure a lot of this is, you know, the part that's frustrating for him is because you've had some change in the previous regime it had conversations with, but nobody from this regime. And, you know, he's probably looking around and knows that he's the best quarter on the team. He knows that. Yeah, and he's looking at $3.25 million. It's not even guaranteed. And he should be in line for a contract extension.

I would be, prior to him going public yesterday, I would certainly think that it was in the Redskins' plans to extend Quentin Dunbar. I mean, unless they have a much better idea about the corners on their team that haven't played that much, you know, whether it's the rookie from JMU,

last year or Stroman or you're, you know, Danny Johnson or I mean, Greg Norman's getting cut. I mean, that's a lock. Not Greg Norman. Josh Norman. Josh Norman's getting cut. Josh Norman. I think Greg Norman would get cut too. Yeah, Greg Norman wouldn't be very good either.

So anyway, there we are on Quentin Dunbar. Josh Norman, the Matador. Yes, the Madd. Well, I mean, who knows? They could potentially re-sign him, but he's not playing under his current contract for this team next year. There's too much, it's too much money, and there's too much of a cap-savings opportunity by releasing him. But he supposedly, he publicly expressed his love and admiration for Ron Rivera.

Right. And Jimmy Morland was the name I was trying to come up with the January. Last year's training camp here. Yeah. So there you go. Quentin Dunbar, you know, you're a good player, all right? If you're not back next year, I think the organization's going to survive. They'll figure it out.

And you know what? If you're a corner on this team and if you think things are going to, are going to happen as we expect them to. Let's say, you know, a good, young, aggressive front seven adds Chase Young to the mix. You want to play quarter on this team. Yeah, definitely. I mean, you're going to get opportunities back there with that kind of front seven pass rush. Exactly.

Listen to us on all of the podcast platforms, plus just a reminder for those that want to listen to the podcast that can't figure it out on Spotify or Google Play or Apple, you can go to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com. I'm back on radio as a reminder to everybody, 7 to 10 a.m on the Team 980 and 95.9 FM and the Team 980 app and the Team 980.com. Don't you have an app too for the podcast? We have an app for the podcast as well,

so you can download that app as well. It's pretty easy. Thanks for reminding me. Okay. Good job. A couple of other football-related things before we get to the XFL, which you attended the opener for the DC Defenders. I watched some of that game on Saturday from out in Utah.

We're going to get to the MLB postseason format as well. But I want you to hear a couple of things. Mike Greenberg had a pretty strong and definitive statement about Redskin dysfunction as it relates to Dwayne Haskins. And his rant stemmed from something Doug Williams said over the weekend. So I'm going to play a couple of the Doug Williams bite. for you and then what Mike Greenberg from Get Up in the Morning on ESPN. You know, longtime Mike and Mike, you know, radio show on ESPN radio.

We'll get to that last, but here's what Doug Williams said. I think it was on Saturday with reporters. What did you think of Dwayne's first year and just how he's grown since he's been in the building? Duwain got a long ways to go, but like I told him, his last game before he got hurt, he was doing what we expect for him to do. He was ascending. and hopefully where he is now and where he's death off is he can keep going up

and I think he's up for the task you know good to have him out here to understand what it's like to be in the public and everybody's going to be looking at him I told him all eyes are going to be on him and at the same time you got a new coaching staff they're not married to him and he got to look at it from that standpoint

that it's about what he does and he has all the ability to do what any coach who wants you to do that not married to him long is what Greenberg responded to. I'll let you hear Greenberg responding to that in a moment. But here was the other response from Doug Williams, because I think it's important that these Doug Williams comments,

which did generate a ton of attention over the weekend, that you hear all of them. Because, you know, Doug, Doug's pretty honest. Doug tells you how he feels, but he'll bounce around a lot of different directions. So you're going to get a lot of different things from Doug. Here's the other part of it. What's the best thing that Dwayne can do with a new coach coming in in that situation? I think what Dwayne has to do, you know, unlike he, he didn't have the opportunity, I think, last year where, you know, the coach has put their arms around him.

You know, we got a young kid here. You know, I think he got to know that we want you to be good. And the kid got so much ability, man, is unbelievable. I think now with the new staff coming in and what he did towards the end of the year, going to get that new staff an opportunity. to say, hey, we need to work with this kid to get the best out of them. I think that's the positive part that Duane has on his side. So that was Doug Williams, you know, also talking, you know, about, you know, just his thoughts. Look, he's positive about Duane, and then he says the new coaching staff isn't married to

Dwayne, and then he says the new coaching staff, you know, probably realizes that he's going to have to be the starting quarterback next year. He's the only quarterback on the roster right now under contract. That's true. Let's not forget that. He's going to be the starter next year, more likely than that. No, he's not the only quarterback on the roster. Who's the other one?

Alex Smith. Oh, right. I'm sorry, but I actually completely forgot about that. Who thinks he's going to play again? But he's not. Well, that's what he thinks. I don't think he thinks it. But, I mean, I wish him the best.

So why would he say it if he doesn't think it? I don't know. Like Sean Conner, he said in the untouchable. Who would say what they are when they're not or whatever he said? Was that the exact quote from Sean Conner? No, I'm just getting the gist of it. All right, let's get to Greenberg's response to specifically Doug saying the new coach, the new coaching staff is not married to Haskins.

This was Mike Greenberg earlier yesterday, I think, on his show on ESPN. If he wanted to look up a perfect method to ruin a young quarterback, you couldn't do it any better than they've done it. From the moment they drafted him, when everyone on planet Earth wanted to make it clear the coaching staff didn't want him, But they didn't get rid of the coaching staff then. They waited until five or six games into the season to do it. So that everyone knew he was the object of this tug of war between ownership and the head coaching.

Then he's in there. He's not in there. Now they're married to him. They're not married to him. We just said Cleveland, what can you say except build him up? John Gruden, what can you say except build him up? Washington, we're not married to him. They didn't want him in the first place.

And if he didn't want him, you shouldn't have taken him. Because that's a kid with a lot of talent who obviously needed to be developed. Laura just pointed out. He played so little football, it's ridiculous. And what they are doing is the definition of how to ruin a young player. That was Mike Greenberg yesterday. Go ahead. I got a bunch of thoughts about this. I mean, look, he's right, except he doesn't actually track it the way where the problem began. The problem began was when the owner decided that he would be their first pick in the draft. when the owner decided that he would be the only player

he would meet with at the combine. When the owner was the one who called him on draft night and told him that he was a redskin, when the owner said, sure, you want to wear a number seven? Go ahead. We don't have a problem with it. I'm sure Joe will be fine with it. Well, Joe had to clear it.

Yeah. But he put the pressure on Joe to look like an asshole if he had said no. Yeah. So, I mean, you have. had this kid, I can't, I mean, I say this to a blue in the face, he was empowered before he ever stepped in to that Redskins locker room. And he knew it. He felt it. I mean, all you got to do is hear, here the way he describes Snyder. When they, when they had the, uh, when Snyder was given his locker room diagnosis, when, uh, Haskins was hurt, you know, I mean, Dan, he calls him

Dan, you all want to make such a small thing out of that. That's a big deal. He's a kid. He's a rookie quarterback, and the owner is Dan to him. This is where the problem started with Dwayne Haskins. So, of course, the coaching staff is going to push back from that. Of course, they're going to do everything in their power to push against the owner influencing such an important football decision.

even if it's cutting off their nose to spite their face. If you're a coach on that team, why would you turn around and embrace Dwayne Haskins, at least in that initial first year process after what you just saw took place? And the fear you probably have that this kid probably thinks he has more power than me. I mean, you're not wrong anything you're saying. It was, I don't blame Dwayne Haskins for this, just like in many ways we didn't blame He's a kid. Yeah, I mean, this is where, you know, even if you believe, like I believe, that the owner's been less involved over the last 10 years than he was in the first 10 years,

this is where his involvement is destructive. You know, you cannot have a key player in the organization report to you and answer to you and rely on you to get things done more than the head coach or more than his position coach. It really sabotaged the entire RG3 possibility here. And Tommy's right. I mean, the reporting backs it up. This was a Dan Snyder draft night pick that really did not make a lot of the people in personnel very happy about it.

Not to mention a head coach that needed to win that was brought back, but given a first round number 15 overall quarterback. to develop and play hopefully sooner rather than later. With that said, the constant talk of ruining Dwayne Haskins is just so old. It was a dumb take to begin with after he came into a game as a backup quarterback against the Giants. He's the backup quarterback. Would you have preferred Lewis Riddick and others that Trey Quinn had gone in and taking snaps?

How insulting would that have been? He was the backup quarterback who played because the starting quarterback was banged up and terrible. Same thing he did in Minnesota. And again, like if you had been following this story, and the national media doesn't follow it like we do. Just like, you know, when we have strong opinions about another team in another market, we don't know it like the local people know it. You know, if you had been watching Dwayne Haskins,

going back to the preseason, you know, and you had been an observer of just his overall demeanor, you would have come to the conclusion, and many of you did, that I did, which is, this dude doesn't look like one of those dudes you're going to really ruin or rattle or overwhelm. He's got a lot of confidence. It may not be, you know, well-founded confidence, but he's got a lot of confidence. I don't think you're going to rattle this dude. This dude has some compete in him. he's got some swag, he's got some confidence, whatever you want to call it.

I never felt like if you had played him early, you were going to ruin him or overwhelm him. It was a dumb take by the national media when he played against the Giants, a dumb take about him playing early. Every single quarterback, with the exception of three over the last 10 years that were drafted in the top half of the first round, started a game before week five of their rookie year. We've gone through the list many times. Mahomes was obviously the one that turned out well that was the massive exception to the role. So Dwayne Haskins should have been playing early,

like any other quarterback. Secondly, when they talk about the Redskins and they pinpoint and really hone in on the Redskins ruining this guy, because they are the butt of a lot of jokes, and by the way, all reasonable, and they are certainly one of those bottom-feeding, organizations that are criticized consistently by people locally and nationally. With that said, Dwayne Haskins entered into a situation that wasn't that unique.

We've seen this before. When quarterbacks get drafted by bad teams at the top of the draft, more times than not, they're not entering into a situation where there are great receivers, great coaches, you know, great running backs, great offensive lines. Like, you know, a lot of those quarterbacks played, though. So, you know, they tried to make it out too. Terrible organization, terrible supporting cash, you got to wait. I mean, even our own former players begged for them not to play him this year. Turned out that it was a good thing that they played him. He grew, he progressed.

It's obvious that he matured a little bit, you know, Callahan even suggesting late in the season, this is a guy that is coachable. He does not make the same mistake twice. That's an indication of a coach saying that guy's coachable. You know, and by the way, when Greenberg said, you know, he was the object of a tug of war and the coach got fired, well, that tug of war didn't like all of a sudden when Gruden got fired and end up being a winning situation for the owner because he didn't start right away. Callahan even suggested that he wasn't ready to start. He was singing the Gruden tune initially. And, you know, if Case Keenham doesn't get the concussion in Minnesota, it's very possible that we don't see Dwayne Haskins. until several weeks after when we initially saw him.

And that, you know, after the Minnesota game and before the Buffalo game. But it does, the other part of this is I do agree and understand where Greenberg's coming from. It's like anything else. You know, you do it all the time. You'll take one part of a quote and turn it into a column without all the context. In other words, otherwise what somebody says. I know whole people accountable for what they say. I know.

forget the context and all the other things he said. The imaginary context. Not in this case. There was a lot of context. I mean, he was saying a lot of different things. We love Doug. He does sort of veer in a lot of different directions. But one thing that Greenberg said was really true about the early stages of Dwayne

Haskins here. It wasn't comfortable for him. And I'm not saying he's the first. I don't think it's unique. But man, you talk. about some bad decisions, you know, to publicly leak stuff, to talk about work ethic, to create this narrative that he's so far from being ready, that, you know, he hasn't learned how to do. They didn't even leak stuff.

Some of the comments the coaches made, like Kevin O'Connell, were public on the record. So the leak stuff. About working harder. The leak stuff, the public stuff. when you have a young guy like that publicly, and this is where culture matters, and this is going to be a challenge for Ron Rivera, you've got to have everybody on the same page.

And one of the things we're not going to do as an organization with our young rookie quarterback is we are not going to publicly criticize him in any way, shape, or form. It's going to be about building him up, talking favorably about him. Doesn't mean we're not going to make him earn it behind closed doors. We're going to make him earn it. We're going to be tough on him. But we're not publicly going out there and criticizing this kid.

It's not the way to do it. Now, he was able to overcome it. Kevin. Some won't be able to. Kevin, isn't it entirely possible that behind closed doors, the coaching staff felt they had very little power when it came to influencing this kid? and the only power they felt they had, like Jay Gruden in his first year here, with RG3,

was to speak out publicly on the record. Yes, yes, the answer is yes. The answer is yes. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it right. It didn't make it right with Jay Gruden. Look, it's a symbol, it's a symptom of the dysfunction of the organization. If coaches feel the only control they have is to criticize a player publicly.

Right. That's a problem. Yeah, it's a big problem. But I understand why they would do it. Here's the other thing, too. And a friend of mine, Kevin, texted this to me earlier. This is the only friend you have, apparently. Because this is the second time you mentioned.

One of very few. Unless you're in like a Kevin club. We actually edited out. We edited out the first part because we did it too early. So you heard me mention him the first time. But those listening to the podcast, I don't think of mentioned. Well, I just took him behind the scene a little bit. So he texted me this morning.

He said, we need Doug Williams to keep. is unfiltered, often long-winded communications before media to cease. You know, I should show up for the meetings before the podcast. You should. You never did on radio. You just showed up right when the show started. Greenberg is insufferable, but every time Doug speaks, there is a mess to clean up, which isn't totally true, but it has been true.

Yes, it has. There's one voice, and it should be Rivera's. Nipping this in the bud will help with the needy culture change, just my opinion. And when I read this this morning, I was like, you know what? Why is Doug talking about Dwayne Haskins? Nobody should be talking about Dwayne Haskins except for Ron Rivera. He should be the guy that's talking about Dwayne Haskins. Now, teammates get asked about him.

That's a different thing. But the organization, what happened to coach-centric? One voice. We're a month and a half in, and Doug Williams is doing press conferences and doing interviews about the quarterback, which, by the way, created the opportunity. for a national broadcaster on a national show to rip the team. Like just let's get something here where we got one person controlling the message.

You know, by the way, somebody who... You know, that's not going to happen. I'm not saying it will. That's not going to happen. I'm saying it should, though. I mean, it's very entirely possible that Doug was doing this as well to make sure that he holds on to his little slice of, of power, whatever it is, that he may have at Redskins Park.

I don't think Doug Williams has much power at Redskins Park. Well, whatever. I said it was a little slight. I know you did. I'm just wondering. He has a certain level of power because he is Doug Williams. He is Doug Williams. And you know what? Because he's Doug Williams, he's still there. Okay. Because if he weren't Doug Williams, you and I both know, and most of you listening know, he wouldn't be there right now. I know that. But because he has that, speaking publicly is probably the The only power and influence he has. Okay, but if he's going to be there because he's Doug Williams,

and you're going to have coach-centric operation, I think that coach... You're going to tell Doug Williams to shut up? Yeah. Okay. If I'm brought in and I'm trying to create a culture change, and I'm not suggesting that Doug will be bad for culture, in fact, I think he should be utilized more than he's been utilized. He should be a great mentor for a lot of these young players,

specifically a young quarterback. But remember, when Haskins has been asked, it's been Alex Smith. Yes. You know, and you get to a point perhaps where a younger 20-year-old or 21-year-old can't relate to Doug Williams. And maybe there isn't really an opportunity to mentor. But Doug is a good person and is a valuable resource. Whether or not it's used properly, my senses in the past it really hasn't been. Doug Williams has not been a significant voice.

in the way his title would lead you to believe he was in personnel. You know, but it's a whole other conversation. I didn't mean to go in this direction, but, you know, he is Doug Williams, which is why he's still there. I don't know if that's the right thing to do. Like I think if Ron Rivera said, I love you, Doug, you're a legend, and you're an organizational legend in the same way that Joe Thaisman

and Sonny Jorgensen and other great quarterbacks, Mark Rippin, et cetera. but I don't have a spot for you in the organization. I'm bringing to my own people. You got to figure out a way to keep Doug Williams. Why? You just do. Why?

Because it's smart business. Why? What is it? Because it's one of the- If Doug Williams weren't there today, how would it impact their business? Well, no, if Doug Williams was dismissed. How would it impact their business? Then you'd have a Redskins fan base that'd be even more disgusted and angrier with the organization.

I disagree with that. I think there was a point where that would have been true. I don't think it's that anymore. You find a place for Doug Williams. He's an icon, and you don't dismiss him. I'm glad that there's a place for Doug Williams. I like Doug Williams, but if there weren't a place for Doug Williams, it wouldn't hurt their business if they got rid of Doug Williams.

Well, I think it wouldn't help. Okay. We can agree to disagree. I think that a few years ago, it probably would have been, you know, more impactful than it would be now. Anyway, whatever. You know, Dwayne Haskins, take the advice of Doug Williams there where he

talked about, it's the same thing that Gibbs pretty much said to me last week when he was on the radio show with me when his comments about Dwayne got a lot of attention because it wasn't a full-on endorsement of Dwayne. You heard him, right? Right. You know, and he essentially said the same thing

that Rivera said, and it's not about, you know, the physical. It's about the leadership. And the leadership is acquired, not necessarily vocally, but with incredible knowledge. And Doug said it. He's got to be first in, last to leave. He's got to know that playbook better than anybody. When Terry McClureen or Adrian Peterson or Trent Williams have a question about the game plan, it's Dwayne Haskins that steps up and answers the question. He knows it better than the offensive coordinator knows it. It's that kind of commitment that is going to be required.

for him to all the sudden be a guy that Ron Rivera and Scott Turner say, oh, yeah, he's committed, he's taking over that what they called leadership mantle. That's when I had Gibbs on and I put that together with the Rivera stuff, that's what they're looking for. And they don't know that yet. They don't know. They haven't been with them long enough. They see the physical. I get that.

And, you know, maybe I'm out of line here. Uh-oh. But it's a little bit disturbing that you didn't have a kid, a kid. but a kid who was the starting quarterback at Ohio State walk in the door with those qualities already. First one in, last one to leave. Learn everything you possibly can. And it's a little bit troublesome that those qualities weren't there from day one.

Well, I don't know that you can say that those qualities weren't there. You can say that maybe he didn't use those qualities, that he didn't show those qualities, he didn't reveal those qualities, perhaps because it was a very dysfunctional situation. I've never seen you bend over as far as you just did now. Well? That was unbelievable.

I mean, you know, I heard he wasn't the first in and the last out early on just like you didn't, just like it was sort of leaked out. Okay, but at the same time he was dealing, and you're right. He should have been the first one in and the last one out. You're right. Yes, absolutely. And I think as the season went on, he became that guy. Yes, I know that.

Okay. I get that. You know, but he had to be told. That's a little bit troublesome. He had to be told that there was one more play left in a game, get out there and take the knee. He's over there taking selfies. Anyway, all right. Let's get to...

Let's get the real football. Okay, go ahead. Come on. Let's get the real football. I got some stuff for you on this, but go ahead. there Saturday. I was at the NFL Defender's debut.

It was an interesting, it was a very interesting experience. For a lot of reasons. First of all, let me make it clear that I haven't changed my position. I don't think the

XFL is going to succeed long term. I just don't think any league other than any NFL is going to succeed long term. I wish it did. in the sense that I like new operations. But again, starting a football league in this atmosphere, in this day and age, I think it's a foolhardy.

I think it's Vince McMahon's White Whale. That said, the live experience of game day Saturday was so compelling on so many levels. First of all, to watch the crowds pour out of the Navy Yard Metro and walk down to the stadium was sort of like saying, wow, this is how it could be if there was a if there was a stadium in the district for the Redskins like it used to be. Right. You know, but it was kind of eye-opening in that, you know, I mean, people just, just marching down, hordes of people marching through the streets to go see this team play.

It was pretty, it was pretty amazing to watch. And I'm sure if you're Dan Snyder, and you were aware of that, you're thinking, oh, why can't I have that? Why can't I have those people pouring out of a metro stop to come see my team play? The other thing was, I can't emphasize this to you enough because I wasn't the only one. Les Carpenter for the Washington Post basically wrote the same thing. Everybody was in such a good mood to be there on Saturday. I mean, there was such a positive vibe in that stadium, in part, because of what it wasn't, as much as what it was.

And what it wasn't was Ghost Town Field surrounded by opposing fans with a team that their own fans, that your own fans hate. It really wasn't. Now, these weren't Redskins fans at the stadium. Okay. This was a mixture of millennials, a lot of fans. families, a lot of young fathers and sons, and actually a lot of kids, because tickets were cheap. I think the cheapest ticket was $20, although that's still more expensive than some Redskins tickets were on the secondary market. So it was not necessarily a crowd of Redskins fans that you would see at Ghost Town Field.

It was a different kind of crowd. It was a district crowd. It was a but it was a crowd that really, really, got into it. I mean, they warred for every play. They booed the Seattle Dragons when they came on the field. And again, the other thing was this was so far removed from the old XFL. The game presentation was so low-key and so...

That's an emphasis. Yes, so unassuming. I mean, I pointed this out. There was one, during a timeout, they had one thing where they had. had these two kids, maybe six or seven years old, and they do this thing, I haven't seen at games before, where they line up pieces of a football uniform every five yards or so. And then they have the kids run and put on each piece of uniform as quick as they can, including a helmet, and then run back to the end zone.

And the fans were going nuts over it. You know, it was a great thing. I mean, this was not wrestlers and strippers. You know, this was, I mean, they had some 13-year-old girl from Alexandria sing the national anthem. There were no stealth bomber flyovers, nothing like that. It was, it was as different as the old XFL could have been and was. And people just seemed to really enjoy themselves from the time they got there until the time they leave. And it was such a foreign concept, such a foreign concept for a football event.

in this area. You were overwhelmed by it almost. Wow. I'm serious. Wow. Whoa. I'm not even talking about the quality of football. I know.

Or what it's going to be like in weekend because I'm skeptical of all that. Right. But that's Saturday, that was the place to be. I'm not going to argue with you. I wasn't there. I watched some of it on TV. Aaron, you were there.

I watched 15, 20 minutes of it on TV out in Utah. You were there. What was your impression? Same as Tom's? It's very similar to Tom's. I actually, I went down to the field for, and I stayed down there probably a little longer than I was supposed to down to the kickoff and then kind of walked around in the crowd a little bit. And it was very much, it was very much, as Tommy said, a DC crowd in the sense that we've talked about this before. DC is an event city. You know, they're looking for the big events to go to. They might not know.

They probably didn't know a single player on this team. They're not a true. But they thought this was an event. so they went down and they packed it and they had a good time. Like everybody, you know, all the adults were drinking. They were having a good time. And as Tommy said, I think the biggest thing was they cheered for everything. They cheered for the kids.

They cheered for the people coming out. They didn't know a single player on the Seattle Dragons, but as they walked to the locker room after warmups, they were booing them and I saw BJ Daniels taunting back. That was the other cool thing is that the players got it. They were getting into it. When the players scored a touchdown or made a big play, They would immediately go up to the crowd.

They would either taunt them if they were on Seattle or gesture to them if they were on D.C. They got it as much as the crowd got it. And yeah, I was saying as far as football games go, that was the most fun crowd I've seen in the D.C. area. Well, yeah, the last two years have been dreadful. I'm talking about Maryland. I'm talking about Redskins in quite a while. And again. And what was it, 17,000?

Yeah, and that's the big thing. Like I saw the New York game later. and the key for it, and one of the big things, is that it is in Audi field. Small, yeah. Yeah, it's perfect. Like, the MetLife thing's not going to work. New York's not going to work,

because even if you have 25,000 people, 25,000 people in MetLife is awful, no matter how passionate the crowd is. But here, it really worked, and I thought it was really cool. Again, I'm skeptical of what it's going to be like a week eight. Right. You know, I still have. But for one week,

there was there was some look there was some you couldn't ignore the fact that it felt like well this is an anti-redskins right kind of atmosphere well you saw some of the signs that were up you know but it wasn't but it wasn't I saw the signs but it wasn't like like a protest or hatred of the redskins it was like something total opposite it wasn't anti redskins it was opposite redskins more it was more like right so um I did tune in and watch some of it on that Saturday afternoon. You know, they've got a big TV deal. They've got, you know, Oliver Luck and Jeffrey Pollock, some real smart guys.

And, you know, you mentioned something that, you know, I sort of read through, you know, their quasi-mission statement. And part of it is to be sort of the opposite of what the XFL was 18 years ago. And to provide, you know, high-quality football with high-quality character, with something that resembles football. No pre-game fireworks. Right. No pirates.

Ironically, the stuff that the NFL stole from Vince McMahon, as far as their pre-game introductions, there was none of that in the NFL. Vince McMahon now wants them to wear black shoes Johnny United style. It was just, you know, the players ran out on the field. They were introduced. The fans cheered for them. It was very low-pe. So you probably missed some of the shots of Jim Zorn on the sideline with the ground. glasses hanging off his nose. But I kept watching them from afar because you could pick him out

anywhere with that with that haircut. You know, he was calling plays. Remember when he got the job and he said, I've never called plays before? I'm so excited to get to call plays. I know. Think about that. He was a head coach in the NFL. So I was watching it and, you know, after a while I turned it. It wasn't compelling enough for me to stick with it. There was some good golf on. There was some good college hoops on. And I was with two of my three boys, the two that are big sports fans. And one of them, just to be clear, and they're hardcore sports fans. He didn't even know what was going on. And the other one was like, yeah, this is the debut of the thing. And he and he and his friends are more into the NFL draft, which sort of speaks to something that you've

sort of addressed that I'll address. I have no problem with you and Aaron and all the people that were there enjoying it. I mean, it's nice to go somewhere and have it be fun. Here's what I I don't want to happen, and I saw a lot of this on Twitter, is the, you know, it's the, what you've always referred to, you know, the soccer fans who are basically non-sports fans. Right. Soccer is a sport for people who don't like sports. So I don't want, you know, I don't want to hear from people that if we're not falling, you know, head over heels to get tickets to the next game, that we just don't get it, you know, or we're missing out on like this changing of the guard.

You know, so it's nothing like that. I don't want the soccer phony's stepping in, you know, the hipsters, the, the subculture of self-proclaimed, you know, sophisticated sports fans to tell me what I'm missing. If you love it, that's great. That's your prerogative. If you enjoy it, I'm going to probably watch more of it. You know why? Because you can bet on it, you know, so I'll probably have a wager or two at some point. I guarantee you I will.

I just don't want to hear from the people who aren't, you know, legitimate sports fans who go to soccer watch parties and try to tell us how beautiful the game is. And by the way, you know me. I actually like the World Cup. But I'm not going to sit there and tell you what you're missing, you know, and how unsophisticated you are. And I get this sense on Twitter that a lot of people were pretty chesty about what they had just experienced. Your take was different. It was not the same. It was what you really genuinely felt.

But there was a lot on Twitter as I was sitting out there in Utah about how the NFL better be paying attention. You know, there's some serious stuff they're going to have to consider here. I think that, you know, I think that was probably. That's laughable. But that was probably geared just to. I doubt if you heard that in every city. But you're going to hear it in Washington because there's such an anti-redskinned sentiment. When I heard that, it was more about the broadcast that the NFL needs to start embracing some of the stuff from the broadcast.

whether it's hearing the play calls. I heard a lot of people talking about the extra point stuff and the NFL is going to have to seriously consider the new kickoff stuff. And the whole thing. I thought the extra point was great. Yeah, I thought the extra point idea was pretty good. I don't hate it. The NFL won't adopt it.

The NFL's not going to be threatened by this league. No, they're not. Okay, let's make sure. There's a difference between adopting ideas and being threatened by them. Like at the kickoff, I do think, because they're already talking about getting rid of the kickoff. This is a compromise between getting rid of the kickoff. you know, making it a lot safer. So I do think that the kickoff, extra point they may not, but I think they should.

Look, the XFL has a better shot than the AAFL from last year. Well, they've got funding. They've got funding, okay? They have really smart people. Better TV contracts. They've got better TV contracts. I mean, because the AAF went off CBS after the first week. Their cost structure is minor league baseball-like, which is helpful.

Now, the problem with that is, of course, the dilemma with that is that, you know, how long can some of the better players play in that league making 50K a year without getting the shot for the NFL? Eventually they're going to have to go do something else. The better players make up to 200,000 a year. I mean, there are some salaries that are much higher than 50,000. I like the less radical approach to the first iteration of the XFL. I think that's probably smart. I do think, Tommy, I don't know what you think about. this. I think the only way that it legitimately gets to like the level of the USFL, which was never

truly competitive with the NFL, but lasted for four years, is they're going to have to break the bank on a couple of big-name players. That's the way you're going to legitimize it. You're not going to do it with coaches. You're going to do it by signing Joe Burrow or Chase Young. You know, that kind of a move. Joe, you know, name it to the AFL. You know, Flutie and Herschel Walker and Kelvin Bryant to the USFL, year one. You know, that's the kind of thing that will get people's attention. You know, I don't, by the way, just so I don't care if it ends up succeeding. I like new things.

I wouldn't care if it succeeded and it lasted and it became a spring football option that people really dug. It's never going to be the NFL. I think most of you understand that. You know, the NFL is a juggernaut consumer product. like few others. It's in the Coke McDonald's category. You know, it's, it's, it's, I know a lot of people will, you know,

profess that the XFL has a chance to overtake the NFL. Not you, not Aaron, not reasonable people. But there will be a lot of people who are not hardcore sports fans that are the people that, you know, never really got into something that love the new and cool thing that are going to profess that, oh, the NFL's dead. It's going to happen here. It's already happened. Follow it on Twitter. A lot of people saying the NFL could be in trouble.

This was really exciting. This was awesome. The TV ratings, not terrible. Very comparable with the AAFL week one. They'll sink significantly in the coming weeks, is my prediction. But the NFL man, Tommy, we have lived through the greatest sports product in terms of the habit that it's formed with its customer base. more than any other sports product in history. It is, when you, when your product becomes a consumer habit, you've reached the peak, man,

because it's hard to break consumer habits when they are fiercely loyal to a brand. In all those years that I spent in the grocery business, you know, and in the consumer goods business on the marketing side, and this is what I've always said about the Redskins, you know, name issue, you know, when I've heard people that say, oh, you know, if they change a name, it'll be a boon financially. You know, they'll benefit from the new gear with the new name and the new logo. No, no, no, no, no. Anybody will tell you that when you have, you know, people who have

developed a habit around a brand and you change something significant with that brand more times than not, like 99% of the time, it is a massive disaster. And the only way to overcome that is to win big with the taste or the quality of the product or in a sports team's case, winning immediately, you know, to change the narrative of a losing, you know, brand. But, you know, you, you, the NFL is scheduled. People watch football in the fall on Sundays, Sunday nights, and Monday nights, primarily. It's a comfort. It's a comfort food. It's a don't have to think about it thing. It's never going to be topped. In my lifetime, no football league is ever going

to oust or become bigger than the NFL. Just like Coke is never going to be topped by another cola. Okay. But people were drinking, it probably won't. But here's the thing. People are drinking less coke than they ever have. Okay. So that's not the same thing as being topped. Is that true? Yes. Worldwide. That

can't be true worldwide. Well, in the United States it is. Okay. Brands. But they're not drinking more Pepsi. No. They're drinking less soda. Yeah. Brands. disappear for all kinds of reasons. Behaviors change. Technology changes. Circumstances change.

Brands do, but brands built around habit. Consumer habit rarely disappear. They disappear. They disappear. Or rarely are trumped. I've seen it in a lifetime. I understand that. You know, I remember where people bought everything they needed at Sears.

Yeah. Now Sears is on the verge of disqualification. That's right. But they, in part because of the whole catalog format. Right. Yeah. No words, because of technology. Technology.

Okay, you can't predict what the technology will be. I'm not saying that it never happens. I'm just saying it rarely happens. It rarely happens. When you get to the level of what the NFL is as a consumer product. But it does happen. Things that seemed like behemoths have disappeared over the course of the 20th century, over the course of my lifetime.

Do you agree with me that if they're really going to make it? And I'm talking about more than a year, okay, more than the AAFL. Oh, they're in for two or three years. Okay. If they're going to make it to the USFL level, which was four years, right? Right. USFL was 82 to 86 before they folded. And the USFL, a lot of people will tell you, folded because...

They spent too much money? Oh, because the businessman in chief forced them to go switch. from spring and that's what did the men. Right. So Donald Trump. Yes. Do you agree with me, though, that they're going to have to make a big splash signing here at some point? I don't know.

To be legitimized on some level? I don't know. They're going high-quality football as part of the mission statement. Look. It was a minor league product that I watched at best. The football that I watched that game was not that bad. Football was not that bad. I didn't watch for long enough.

I watched for 20 minutes, I would have called it, you know, minor league football. And maybe there's a look. If football is as popular as you think it is, the NFL's in college footballer is popular. There's a place for XFL football. I mean, I don't think it's going to be. But, I mean, as I understand it from what I've read about it, you know, Vince McMahon thinks after three years he'll get enough TV money

in terms of proving to networks or streaming companies that this is a viable content product that he'll make his money back, all based on television revenue. Aaron, is that the game plan? It's hard to say what the game plan is. He can say what he wants. I don't know if that's going to be the case.

Oh, I don't know if it's going to be the case. How many teams are in states where sports betting is illegal? I don't know. As of now? Yeah. Because obviously, like Virginia is apparently about to legalize it. How many teams are there? Eight. Yeah, there are eight teams.

So do you count D.C.? Yeah, D.C. would be one of them. They've got to get some live, you know, gambling opportunities into that stadium, you know, being able to do it from your phone in a seat, being able to do it from a kiosk, being able to do it from a restaurant. those things are make you more viable. To me, talking about a competitor to the NFL is ridiculous conversation, but talking about a football league that could survive and earn enough money to continue to function, gambling's going to have to be a big part of it. Well, I mean, you saw it in that first broadcast.

They had the spread right on the bug. They had the total right on the bug. But the NFL's doing a lot more of that. They're doing more of it, but nowhere, they're nowhere near where, The XFL is embracing. I'm just looking, is Houston? I don't think, no, not Houston. Seattle, I think, might have it legalized.

Yeah. But it's smaller forms. I think that New Jersey and then D.C. when they get it up and running, or the two that are right away ready to go as far as that goes. I mean, gambling always drives a lot of this stuff. And the increase in sports gambling because of the legalization of sports gambling in certain states. It can only help. Smart people, and Jeffrey Pollock's a smart guy.

Oliver Luck is a smart guy. That helps a lot. If you're going to be a football league, you've got to play football, and this is more football than the first iteration of the XFL. Picking cities where you don't have NFL teams was a big part of the USFL strategy. They did both, right, Tommy? Yes, they did. Because you had teams in Birmingham and Memphis, in Oakland,

when the Raiders were in L.A. I'm trying to think of other markets. Arizona had a team before the Cardinals moved there. And in this league, what do you have? You have a lot of NFL cities? Yes. I mean, do you have one non-NFL city? St. Louis.

Why is that the strategy? I'd be curious as to why that is the strategy, rather than going into markets that don't have NFL teams. I mean, you could consider Washington to be a market that doesn't have an NFL team. But seriously, I wonder why that's part of the strategy. I don't know why it would be. I think part of it is the stadiums. I remain skeptical of it succeeding.

Right now, how many years does it make it before it folds? Two years. That's my guess. Yeah, over, under's two and a half. Yeah. That's my guess. So with all that excitement, yes.

With everything that you described very, very well. Because it's passionately. Despite everything you professed, you were moved a little bit. Yes, I was. I think the appetite for football, over the course of our lifetime is going to slowly diminish. Football, period.

So I think, again, like I've said, I've compared it to deciding, you know, you're going to start a tobacco farm in Virginia. You know? Not the same thing. Well, it's the same thing in the sense that you're dealing with a product whose popularity and interest

has slowly diminished in this country over the years through behavior modification for whatever, whatever reasons. Well, the participation has. Yes. Right. Be clear on that,

because TV ratings were up this year. Yes. Participation is an issue. TV ratings were up from the two previous years. That's right. They're still down

for four or five years ago. We've got a totally different, you know, landscape of alternatives and channels and all of that stuff. Again, you've got,

you've got the highest-priced house in a neighborhood where real estate values are going down. You know what, You can still live in it and be comfortable. All right. So the last thing we'll get to.

Actually, three more things. Man, you're working. Two of them will be quick on. But MLB and Aaron, I want you to weigh in on this too, because I'm going to read the whole thing. So Major League Baseball's mulling major changes to its postseason format. I'll spell it out for you in terms of the changes. So they're going to add.

to the playoff field, two teams per league. So right now there are five teams. You have three division winners, two wildcard teams. The two wildcard teams play a one game playoff when the regular season ends and joins the three division winners in the divisional round of the major league playoffs in each league. The changes that major league baseball is considering, and they were announced yesterday, is adding two playoff teams to each league. So instead of five, you would have seven. And the top seed, the best overall record would have a first round by. And the other six teams, which would be two division winners, and then four wild card teams, would then compete in best of three series in the wild card round.

So the second best team through the seventh best team would compete with the top team having the wild card round off. team would get a buy. The other six in each league would compete in three best of three wildcard rounds with the higher-seated team hosting all three games, if necessary. There would not be a changing of venue. The higher-seated team is going to play a three-game home set best out of three, so they're going to have to play at least two games there. If there's a third, it would be there as well. But here's the most interesting part of it. The higher-seated teams aren't slotted against their opponent based on seating. So, you know, if you had seven teams and you seated them one through seven based on record,

and the first team has a buy, and then two would play seven, three would play six, four would play five in most normal situations. That's not what Major League Baseball is proposing. Major League Baseball is proposing that the higher-seated team gets to pick its opponent. Hold on. They're proposing that the high-seated team. seat of teams, so the two seed looks at the other four teams and picks the team they're going to play. And then the number one seed who has the buy, when the wild card round is over, they get

to pick who they play in the divisional round. Do you know how many times you get a coach after they've won a big playoff series or a tournament game? And they're like, all right, coach, you know, next round, you know, Phoenix and Denver are battling it out in their series. You know, who do you want? Who do you want to face? And what's the answer you always get? Oh, man, you know, we're just glad to be there. They're both good teams. They're both really good team. Now you have to call out the team that's the worst team among the remaining teams. You have to say, I picked you because you sucked the most out of everybody else. This is the most insane thing I've ever heard, especially for a sport.

First of all, if this stuff were adopted, it would be the most drastic change to a postseason format in sports history from my perspective. I can't think of another one that would be this dramatic in terms of the change. But for a sport that's such a traditionalist sport, remember the backlash to the first wildcard team? Oh, yeah. They didn't want it. No. When they went to three divisions from the two.

You know, Bob Costs. the voice of baseball was against it. Oh, a lot of people were against it. Baseball, for me growing up and for you as an adult, was two divisions. It was the East and the West, and the two division winners, after 162 games, played in a divisional round playoff with the winner going to the World Series. There were four playoff teams. And then they went to three divisions with a wild card,

and then they added a wild card for a one-game playoff at the end of the regular season. I mean, all of those changes, which, are like a fraction of what's being suggested here. It's huge pushback. To me, and I'll let you go from here. When I read this yesterday, I'm like, wow, this is a sport that's desperate for something, man. This reeks of desperation. You know, I wouldn't go that far, and here's why.

I know people who have sat in on these meetings that they have in baseball for making changes. And they've told me this is the premise how all these meetings start. Yeah, but they don't all get announced. No, no, listen, no, listen, no, listen to me. Okay. I'm not done yet. You see, you need to listen to me. And then you'll find out what I'm saying, is that these meetings all start with, okay, baseball doesn't exist.

You're starting the game. What would you do to basically have baseball names? What kind of rules? What kind of things would you have in the game of baseball? So they get all kinds of wild, wild changes because people are asked, but you know, you're creating the game. You know, how would you create it? What would you do?

Okay. This sounds like an idea that came out of one of those. What I'm saying to you is that I'm sure there's some wild ideas that have been thrown out in the past, but they're not made public. Right. They're not made public in a way that says Major League Baseball is considering the following postseason changes. Right.

This is dramatic. I don't think you're going to see teams be picking their opponents. I don't think that's going to happen. It's the kind of thing that maybe, you know, an OK boomer moment here for a second, that the younger people have to have. Like, they've got to have this selection show to watch as the manager of the second-seeded Houston Astros with Dusty Baker. on national television saying, man, you know what, I'll take the A's. They suck.

I mean, it would be really fun, but it's not sports. Come on, man. Part of it is part of what's going on here is TV programming, given the networks what they want in terms of more programming. But you know my philosophy about this. And, you know, people chuckle and they think it's cute and they think it's funny. but no one's told me I'm wrong yet. No one's actually showed me how long I am. Let me tell you what.

Okay. The population of the United States is getting older. Right. Not younger. Right. So all baseball has to do is just wait until everybody gets older. That's all they got to do. I mean, the crowd is going to come to them.

They don't have to adopt, you know, their formula to bring in kids because there's not going to be that many kids left. You know, it's so true. I mean, we've seen it in our business, right? You know, being on an AM radio station for as long as we were on. You know, this discussion about the younger demo and trying to appeal to the younger demo. And yet, the younger demo is generating less in income than any of their previous generation. They live with their older generation.

They have no money. Right. They don't have disposable income. the literal population in the United States in every study is getting older. Right. So just wait. Just wait. Just sit back and wait.

You know what? The next press release should be how you're reducing playoff teams. We're going back to two divisions and you got really earn it in the regular season. It's crazy. Because if the game is geared to a slower pace that appeals to older people, then you've got the right demographic heading your way. You just got to be patient. All right. Real quickly, if you haven't signed up for stamps.com and you're a small business, please do so.

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Go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage. Type in Kevin, D.C. That's Stamps.com promo code, Kevin, D.C. I want to mention the Philip Rivers story because you know I'm a Philip Rivers fan. I've always been a Philip Rivers fan. So he and the Chargers have basically mutually agreed that he's going to enter free agency and his time 16 years in San Diego and Los Angeles are over. He started 14 of those 16 years.

He is, this is not a debate. You can debate me. He's a Locke Hall of Famer. I don't know if it's a first ballot or second, you know, second operative. He's going to be in the Hall of Fame. He is sixth all time in NFL. history in passing yards. He is sixth all-time in touchdown passes. In 14 seasons as a starter, they went to the playoff six times. They got to the AFC championship game once in 2007 when he

played on a torn ACL against the Patriots in Foxborough. You know, Dan Fouts, Sonny Jurgensen, Warren Moon, those are the cops for Philip Rivers. They're all in the Hall of Fame. Incredible quarterbacks. When you watched him, you knew. You know, he didn't win in the postseason. He didn't get to the postseason enough. He didn't go to a Super Bowl. He didn't win a Super Bowl, nor did those guys. Same kind of guy. I think actually better than some of those guys. I don't know about Sonny. Bill Belichick, and I'm paraphrasing this because I looked for the quote and I couldn't find it. But I remember referring to this several years ago and I've referred to it in the past as well. It was during one of those Pro Bowls and he basically said, he was asked about

Rivers and he said, it's Tom is in Brady, Peyton is in Manning and Philip. as in Rivers. Those are the three guys right now. No quarterbacks control a game at the line of scrimmage more than they do and perhaps ever have in the era since coaches started to call plays and design offenses. And just said one of the brilliant quarterbacks and quarterback minds of our era, he's going to be in the Hall of Fame. Like people like we're tweeting me saying, there's your boy, there might not even be a place for him. You're going to argue he's in the Hall of Fame. He's not a Hall of Fame or he's never won a Super Bowl.

Trust me. I would bet any amount of money with anybody that Philip Rivers will be in the Hall of Fame. Now, where is he going to go? I saw this year a compromised Philip Rivers physically when I watched the Chargers. I don't think he's got the same arm strength that he used to have. There were a couple of games in particular. Aaron, remember that Mexico City money? night game. And he was throwing

ducks in that game, not necessarily pressured. And it was a tough field that night, the whole thing. I think I saw him take a major step back physically this year in arm strength and ability. That's what I saw watching him.

Now, if other teams see that, you know, there may not be a robust market for him. I do think somebody's going to sign him. Somebody's going to say, can we get this guy with this team, you know, like a Tampa. You know, if they move on from Winston, which it appears as if they're going to do,

really good coaching staff, really good talent offensively, and, you know, can we get one Philip Rivers year out of him? Because if we do, we could make a run next year. You know, would Tampa finish 8 and 8? Yeah. You know, we could go 8 and 8 and 10 and 6, 11 and 5 and be in the postseason and have a chance. And by the way, they're going to have to pay for that. Like he's not signing an incentive-laden deal only.

He's going to get a lot of guaranteed money for at least a year, maybe two. But I do, I mean, the conversations are separate, the Hall of Fame conversation with the what's next. The what's next, I do agree with some of you who say there may not be a huge market for him. And I think that the reason for that is not the age. It's the physical condition. He looked like a different quarterback this year to me when I watched him. He did. Aaron, would you want him on Tampa right now? You're a Bucks fan. Yeah, I would take him. I wouldn't be, you know, gung ho about it, but I wouldn't be displeased if he ended up there.

I mean, I'd like to see him personally as a fan of him on a team with talent, you know, that can win. If not, I hope he retires. Like, if there isn't a team set up for him to come up, come in takeover, like what are the other examples of the teams that are being talked about? The bucks are the favorite. Indianapolis is the second favorite right now. Those would be the two. Now, unless Brady leaves New England, you know, imagine Brady leaves New England and Belichick says, well, fine, I'll go get rivers and we'll win it next year. If you want the odds, Tampa Bay plus 150, Indianapolis plus 275, Carolina and Las Vegas, both plus 500, Miami plus 600.

You know, the Raiders would be interesting. Carolina wouldn't be that. You know, Carolina has some talent. on that team. Yeah. And that's where he's from, even though he moved his family to Florida. I think,

I bet he ends up in Tampa. I bet he ends up in Tampa. One last thing before we leave. So, uh, it was off for several days. Marilyn played Illinois Friday night in what was a really good college basketball game.

Now, I did not want, I watched the first half that had to go to the rehearsal there. It was tough because that first half that ended 4240 was a high. was a high-level college basketball game. I got a chance to see the second half when I got home. First of all, that was a really big win for Mark Turgeon in Maryland. There's 16 and a half-point favorites tonight to beat Nebraska,

and they potentially, with a win tonight, given the other games that are going on in the Big Ten, could have a two-game lead. And actually, based on the point spreads, you know, Purdue's favorite tonight over Penn State and Michigan State's favorite at Illinois, there's a chance. Maryland wins tonight is a 16 and a half point favorite. They should win over Nebraska, and they're two games clear, you know, in the Big Ten race. It was a really good basketball game. I was really, really happy for Mark.

Scott was there, Van Pelt. He told me it's the best environment, one of the loudest crowd environments he's been in. You could see it, Aaron, I'm sure you were following it all day. The students were lined up hours in advance. It was the biggest home game Illinois had in 10 years, 12 years. and they were ginned up and they took a 14-point lead in the first half and Maryland came back and they won the game. Cowan was terrific and Iyala finally knocked down a couple of shots. But here's what I wanted to say to all of the Maryland basketball fans that listen and sometimes, you know,

criticize me. Aaron does it sometimes actually for being a little bit too supportive of Mark Turgeon, even though I've criticized various parts of various games. I've been frustrated with a lot of things. But, you know, the fans that really got after him after they lost to Iowa and Wisconsin and were convinced that the world was ending and that it was now time for Turgeon to leave. We know that from a month ago, one month ago. These are the same people that say, you know, and I've said the same thing. I want a team that's ranked high.

I want a team that's seated high. I want a team that's got pros on it. I want a team that's contending for a league title. I want a team that's contending for, you know, deep into March run. well, that's what you have right now. That's this team right now. Okay? They're in first place in the best league in the country.

They're ranked high. They've got pros on their team. They're going to be seated high more likely than not. And they're going to be one of those teams that are going to be among the teams picked to get to the final four. You know, there's going to be a group of 10, 12 teams and they're going to be one of them that's going to be talked about as a final four team. So, you know, and I mentioned this after the Wisconsin game, I said,

They played well against Wisconsin. I hated the in-bounce pass. They blew it at the end, but they had played well. And they continued to play well, you know, and now all of a sudden they're winning games on the road. And is this true? Was this true the other night that it's the first top 20 road win for Turgeon? It wouldn't surprise me. Because last year was the top 25.

Yeah, the first ranking that was like 24. So, yeah, sounds right. And they're good basketball team. Yeah, they are. And I saw the play against high. Iowa, they looked really good in that game. And Turgeon, his maneuvering in-game, you know, going to that zone, and I was sitting there watching that first half, I'm like, he's got to go to zone.

They cannot stay in front of anybody. Illinois is getting to the rim with ease. He's got to go zone, and it was two possessions later. They're in the zone, and it totally disrupted Illinois' rhythm. Totally. Their coach talked about it after the game. They got out of rhythm. It changed the game.

he showed multiple zones. He showed their 3-2 that they played more of than any other zone. He also went to a possession or two of a 1-3-1. Impressive to go into that environment. You know, a week after, basically a week and a half after, they'd gone into another very hostile environment in Bloomington at Indiana where they hadn't won as a Big Ten team. And to win that game, you know, puts them in position for the rest of the way.

to be what you think they should be more times than not. That's what they are right now. They're everything you didn't think they were a month ago. And the other thing about this, Aaron, is all the people, and you know these people too, they're fixated on recruiting. Well, what about next year? Who is he signed? Who cares about next year right now?

Enjoy the moment, people. Like, enjoy it. This is a really good team. By the way, they're going to lose a couple more games, okay? Let me give you fair warning. They're going to lose a game or two, and you're going to be really pissed off about why they lose it. But this is a team right now built to go deep, deep. Maybe they don't. But I'm going to enjoy, you know how many big games they have left? They have Michigan State Saturday in East

Lansing at Brezlin Center. They've got another game. They've got Michigan State at home, which looks like Aaron, it's setting up for an ESPN game day game. That's what I was just about to ask you. Yeah, I think that's what they're holding off the time on because I think it's going to be the game day location. They close with Michigan. One problem with that, though. Game Day is doing Michigan State Maryland this weekend, right? Are they? I think that's the case. Why? Because is the 6 o'clock start the game day thing?

I just pulled it up because I was looking to see they have announced it. It looks like they've announced East Lansing. Okay, so they're going to be, they might be in college park too. That would be awesome. Very possible. So they've got, I know that they've been holding back that time because of the possibility that it was going to be in the prime spot. Because it is an ESPN game.

Yes. On the 29th. So they play Michigan State. this Saturday and then two weeks from now. God, these Big Ten games are great. They still play Michigan at home, Ohio State on the road, Minnesota on the road. They have a game against Rutgers on the road.

You live in the moment, man. They got big games. Not big games in the Big Ten. Big games on a national scale like they used to have in the ACC. So tonight's a really good night in the Big Ten. I mean, Penn State at Purdue. How about Purdue being a four and a half point favorite over the 13th, team in the country. That reeks. Did you see Purdue hang 61 points the other night in the first

half on Iowa? Oh, yeah. That's what they score in the big 10 in a full game, and they had 61 at half time. He's one of my favorite coaches, always has been. Matt Painter. But tonight, Penn State, Purdue, Nebraska, Maryland, and Michigan State at Illinois. You know, Illinois now, Michigan State's lost three in a row errand, something like that. They're out of the top 25, and Illinois's lost two in a row, I think. I don't think Michigan State, I think Maryland's going to beat Michigan State at least once. I'd say at least once. I don't know about this weekend, but at home they'll be favored. And wouldn't shock me if they were favored by five or six.

Do you have anything? I got nothing, boss. All right. Thanks, everybody. Glad to be back. Enjoy the show back tomorrow.