The Kevin Sheehan Show - Ranking Washington's Fan Base

Episode Date: February 21, 2025

Kevin and Thom talked about where the Washington Commanders' fan base ranks among NFL fan bases. Thom invited Kevin to go to a Wizards game? Sick days, Brazil or Spain, USA vs Canada hockey, and Trump's impact on RFK as the future home for the football team all a part of the show as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation.

Call them at 86690 Nation. Or head to Window Nation.com if you need new windows. I did not do a podcast yesterday, Tommy. I even told you this. As we were doing our pre-production meeting before today's show, I actually, and I'm actually still not feeling great, but I can't tell you that I have never missed a day of work because I was sick, because that would be a stretch. I have had, you know, whether it was strep throat or some case of something resembling the flu. But I bet you that I can count the number of days on one hand that I've missed from work for being sick.

over the years, but yesterday, I was legit sick. And so I didn't do radio and I didn't do this podcast. I had a fever, which I can't tell you the last time I had a fever. Actually, I think I still might have a fever. But I'm going to get put on an antibiotic, I think, this afternoon. And my throat was like so sore. But Advil really works. Like all of the, you know, the ibuprofen stuff kind of works for sore.

anything. But that's why I didn't do a podcast yesterday, for those that were wondering. Why is that we have adopted this viewpoint, and you and Andy Pollan leave the parade on this, that there's some kind of nobility in showing up for work every day for the man? Well, whether it's the man or whether it's for myself, I don't, it's kind of the way I was taught, I guess. I mean, it's not, they're not making movies about people who show up, who are showing up for work every day.

You know, there's no great stories about, wow, this guy, he was really special. He showed up for work every day. What does that mean? I don't know what it means. For a business to make money. I was just laying out the facts. I wasn't necessarily looking for a parade to be thrown in my honor, but you're right.

I think you were. You think you were when you started out by saying, rarely. I do consider it to be something of a high quality, from a work ethic standpoint. I do. If you care more about your coworkers instead of, your bosses, you wouldn't show up when you were sick. Well, it's not even about anybody's bosses.

I do it for me and for the people that rely on me and I feel accountable to. I'm not specifically talking about you now. Okay. I'm talking about the whole concept that there's a lot of people that take special pride in making sure they don't miss a day of work, even if they're sick. Right. And I'm not sure how that's become a red badge of courage somehow. Really?

Yeah. You're not sure? No, I'm not sure how or why. Well, because you're getting paid by somebody to show up at work every day and give it your best. But you're allowed to take sick days. Part of your deal with that employer is they give you days to take off when you're six. They do. You know it from them.

And by the way, they don't want you in typically when you were sick. Yes. But I think there are degrees of being sick. And for me, it's sick, sick, sick for me to miss a day of work. First of all, let me just tell you, I'm lucky. You're lucky to a certain degree. I actually like work. So maybe that has something to do with it.

I like what I do. I enjoy doing it. If I'm here and I'm feeling fine, even if I'm feeling not so great, I'd rather be doing this in pushing through. By the way, for me, for whatever reason, and I bet some people out there would agree with this. Sometimes when you sort of wallow in it, you don't get better quickly enough. But that's another subject. I'm not a doctor, as you know, and I don't play one on this podcast. But it, it's a I think it probably helps to have that attitude when you actually like what you do. And for the majority of my adult life, when I've, you know, since being in a profession, whatever the profession was, I've never hated what I've been doing. Never. And I think a lot of people do. And I, that's, yeah. Yeah.

And so those people are going to get. get, you know, if they're wired a certain way, they're going to get all of those sick days used up, whether it's the sniffles or the legitimate case of the flu. Whatever I had yesterday for me was legitimate. I didn't feel well. I actually had a temperature. I had a fever. And so that I could have come in here.

And you know me. I'm in here by myself. I have my own studio. Most of you know that. It's not like I'm putting anybody at risk. if I were to come in here. But I just, I mean, I had no voice, and I just didn't feel great at all. But I feel fine.

I feel fine today. Better. I hope you feel better. That's good. I know we don't want to go off the track here, but I think I've got a pretty good sick day story to share with you. Okay. Do you mind? No, please.

Okay. I was a reporter with the Easton Express up in Pennsylvania. I had a lot of friends that worked at Toby Hanna Army Depot, which was a big employer in the Poconos, the biggest employer, a huge army facility, supply facility. And I was with my friend one night at his house, and he brought home the newsletter from work. And I'm reading the newsletter. And I'm reading a story in the newsletter, the employee newsletter that says, you know, the day. Deppo was the worst sick leave offender among all Defense Department facilities in the country last year. The worst.

They averaged two and a half weeks a year of sick days, people taking off sick. That was an average per employee taking two and a half weeks a year in sick days? Yes. So I said, this is a story. Right. You know? Yeah. So what was going on?

I wrote a story, and the Easton Express ran it front page across the top of the page caused all kinds of shit. So a couple months later, my wife gets hired at Toby Ann Army. And my brother-in-law, too. What was the gist of the story? What did you uncover? Well, the just for the story, the just-to-the-story was. basically revealing what was in the newsletter that Toby Hanna was the worst, this local facility that people, you know, are very familiar with, was the worst sick day offender in the whole

federal government defense. Okay, but why was it? Well, why wasn't? How do I know why was it? Well, you were a reporter. Did you ask anybody? Did you interview anybody? Yes, I, oh, I tried to interview people, but they didn't want to talk about it.

Okay. You know. All right, continue. you. So your wife, Liz gets hired by this place. Right. And my brother-in-law, too, as well. And they are both in the employee orientation meeting together with a group of other people. And the guy running a meeting is standing in the front of the room, and he's waving a newspaper article in his hand. He's mentioned about how this reporter took everything out of context, and you've got to

be careful not to talk to people because they'll try to hurt what we're doing here. And he's waving this around, and she's sitting there. And my brother-law is sitting there, and he's pointing to her laughing at her. But the guy never put the two Laverro's together. That's funny. That's funny. That's crazy. I mean, did they get two and a half weeks of sick leave?

Paid? No, no chance. You've got 12 days. You've got a day a month, which is the way most places operate, one day a month, 12 days a year. That's basically two and a half weeks, more or less. Right. You know. And the longer you were there, I think you got more.

I'm not sure about that. Yeah. But you know what? I think most places. Doesn't make me feel bad then for taking me. a day off yesterday for being sick. All right, let's move on. So, you know, the dolphins who Washington has as a road opponent on their 2025 schedule,

they have the Madrid game, which will probably get played sometime in late October, early November. Typically that first ever, you know, in a country like it was in Germany is the last of the international games for some reason. But I think most people have it projected like late October, early November. We won't know until the schedule comes out. But Washington could play the dolphins in Madrid. You and I have both committed to going to that game if Washington ends up playing the dolphins in Madrid.

We'll have a time of it with your relatives as well. But the Chargers, it was announced yesterday, have the Brazil game, which is a week one Friday night game. you'll have the Eagles opening up on Thursday night football, September 4th, I think it is. And Washington could be at Philly in the opener. That's a possibility. But then on the Friday night, like last year, the Chargers are going to host one of their home opponents and one of their home opponents is Washington in 2025 in San Paulo, Brazil, a place that you're very familiar with.

You've been there. I've never been to Brazil. No, I have not been to San Paolo. Oh, I thought you've been there. I've been to Brazilia. Okay. I've been to Brazilia, but not San Paolo. So that game will be on Friday night, September 5th.

Which of the two would you want them to get? You don't, I mean, you're probably not going to go to either. One of them, although we'll go to Madrid. I will legitimately commit to going to Madrid if they play the dolphins in Madrid. That would be a fun trip. a fun game to go to. Would you prefer Madrid over Brazil or Brazil over Spain? Well, I would prefer Madrid. I mean, it would, you know, with the family I have there, I think it'd be a lot more fun and a lot more interesting and easy for me. I'd have access

maybe to some people to interview because of my connections with the family there and I wouldn't have otherwise, I would not go to Brazil to see the game if they played there. I would like to go. I've never been anywhere in South America. And I've heard that there are phenomenal places in South America. I've heard like Argentina's incredible. My brother has spent a lot of time in a lot of those places down there. He lives in Costa Rica. But I would love to, I would go to Brazil. I don't know if I would go on week one, although that's probably the best game to go to because it's a standalone game on Friday night. I bet you they end up playing in one of these two international games. And my guess is it would be Madrid. And actually,

that would be best because, you know, when you play an international game and you're not the host team, that means you have one less true road game. Now, the Chargers have no fan base in L.A. So I'd rather them play in L.A. where they might actually have a bit of a home field advantage, worst case neutral, and play Miami in the international game. So they don't have to play a true road game in South Florida.

But yeah, the possibilities for the upcoming schedule. I can't wait to do my mock schedule. I might do it next week. I mean, the number, it'll be, do you know how boring it's been in recent years? Like one o'clock, you know, giants, one o'clock here, one o'clock. I mean, you know, trying to find the two or three games max that they might be in kind of a big time spot and prime time or, you know, a big doubleheader game. It's been hard to do, you know. But this year, they're going to have the full array of prime time and stand-alone, you know, games.

They'll have the max, whatever the max is. I think it's six prime time. But I think you can add, you know, any standalone game, which could be an international Sunday morning game or a Friday night game in Brazil or a late-season Saturday, you know, standalone matchup, they're going to be in a lot of those next year. There are going to be some late nights next year, some very late nights. It's going to be less 1 p.m. starts than we've seen in a while. Oh, yeah, no doubt. I mean, I know that we've kind of talked about this a little bit because I read through that NFL nerd site.

He did the whole schedule for all 272 games next year. But when you have Philly, Dallas twice, plus you have home games against the lions, against the Bears, the rematch of the Hail Mary game, against Bo Nix and the playoff Broncos, when you've got on the road, you're going to play at Lambo and at Arrowhead next year.

The Packers and Chiefs, plus you're going to play at Minnesota, one of the toughest places to play. You've got the chargers on the schedule, the dolphins on the schedule, Falcons, I don't know what they'll be. There are just so many possibilities for big-time matchups. But I'll tell you one thing.

The team is rising in stature among the teams in the league. Oh, yes. Thanks to one Jay and Danes. All because of the quarterback. Big part of that. All right. I want to do something with you. I did it on radio this morning, but I want to get your thoughts on it as well.

because I think it's an interesting conversation. There was a ranking of fan bases in the NFL and where they kind of fit into tears. And look, the list that was put together was put together by this guy, Dove Klyman or Dove Klamin. I mean, it's, I think, a huge sort of re-aggregator social media account. I don't think he's actually a reporter.

And he put this list together, the fan base is based on tears. And it's a good jumping off. When you say tears, do you mean people who have cried the most? No, I'm talking about as in... Because I think Washington would qualify as among the top there. Yeah, well, if you're doing it by those kinds of tears, you would say the fan base that has produced the most tiers

and the fan base that has produced the least amount of tears. But no, this is more of a tier hierarchy of number of, Number one tier is the best fans in the NFL. Number two tier is great fans of the NFL. Three is okay fans of the NFL. On this list, the next rung was insufferable fans in the NFL. And then the last rung was non-existent fan bases in the NFL. Now, I'm going to just give you the list here,

but we're not going to really comment on this list. This list is poorly done, and it's probably a list that was put out there just to generate the most angry of responses or, you know, how dumb can you be responses. But I'll just mention that the lowest rung, non-existent fan bases, the teams that are listed, the team's fan bases are the Cardinals, the Chargers, the Jags, the Panthers, and Washington. Well, that's ridiculous. It is ridiculous. It would have been ridiculous even last year, actually. Yeah. But the best fans were Green Bay, Buffalo, Seattle, Minnesota, and Detroit.

Great fans were New Orleans, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Tampa Bay, San Francisco, Cleveland, Houston, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, Indianapolis. And then the OK fans were Miami, Denver, Rams, Bears, Raiders, Falcons, Jets. The insufferable list, which, by the way, includes the Kansas City Chiefs, whether you think their fan base is insufferable or not, they're a top tier fan base. They would be in my best fans category, but also Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, and Patriots on that list. So I redid the list, all right? And I want you to go ahead and comment and then we'll focus on where we would have Washington. But for me, the best fan bases, if that's your top tier, would be Buffalo for sure, Green Bay for sure. I think Kansas City fits that category now.

Pittsburgh does for me and Seattle does for me. I would have five fan bases in the top category, best fan bases in the NFL. On that list, I honestly believe Green Bay and Buffalo you can't argue with. I don't think you can argue with Kansas City either at this point. You can say, well, Kansas City's fans haven't always been great. But in terms of where they are now, the most passionate fan bases are Buffalo, Kansas City, Green Bay. I added Pittsburgh and Seattle to that list. Is there anybody that I'm missing?

I don't think so. you know there was a time where I would have added Cleveland to that list. Right. But I think like Washington, they've just been beat down in Cleveland. It's a great fan base, though. You're right. It has been a fan base that has, you talk about like the fan bases that have pent up demand. Like if you can produce a winner, they'll be back immediately in massive numbers.

Look, they went to the playoffs in 2023. That place was crazy down the stretch. Yeah, Cleveland is very passionate, but I don't think I put them in that top tier because I just think they, you know, like Washington used to be very passionate. They've just been beat down by, hell, they're a franchise left town, you know? And they had to take an expansion team. Right. So I just think they've been beaten down over the years. So do you have a problem?

I like your group. Okay, Buffalo, Kansas City, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Seattle, to me would be the top tier, the best fans in the NFL. By the way, the tiers, I cut out insufferable because that's kind of detached from the exercise that we're going to go through. The second tier for me are great fan bases. The third tier for me is more of that okay fan bases. The fourth tier would be subpar or less than average fan bases, and then the last tier can be non-existent. fan bases. By the way, for me, and I'll just jump to that last year, there's only one franchise in the NFL where the fan base is legitimately non-existent, and that would be the Chargers in

L.A. Everybody else has a fan base that will jump on if they're good. We've seen the Cardinals be good before, and their fans packed a joint, and they're passionate. So that was the only fan base that I would put as non-existent. The Chargers don't have a following at all in L.A. Every time they play a game in L.A., it's a neutral or it's a road game for them. Oh, you're right. Actually, you take the meaning literally, non-existent, there is only the Chargers. Only the Chargers. Jacksonville, when they were good a few years ago and went to the AFC Championship in what year was that, 2018, 2017? Well, when they played in the play in the off with Trevor Lawrence. You know, you got the whole Duval County, you know, chant going.

All right. So Buffalo, Casey, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Seattle, the best fan bases in the NFL currently. In the great fan base category, the next rung down, I put Minnesota, Philadelphia, New Orleans, and Cleveland. I actually agree with you on Cleveland. I think it is one of the more underrated fan bases in sports. And unless you really follow this kind of thing, you wouldn't know it because they've been so bad. Same for the Saints. The Saints have an incredible following.

And when you look at, you know, whether it's sellouts or local TV numbers, these are fan bases that have way over delivered based on the results, New Orleans and Cleveland in particular. Minnesota is they've got and they've always had. a very passionate fan base. And I don't know how you wouldn't even consider Phillies fan base almost for tier one. I put him in tier two, great fan base. You wouldn't put New England in there?

I did not. I mean, I think you could argue that, yes. But Tommy, for how long, in Boston alone, are the Patriots even number one in Boston? Or are the Red Sox number one? Like, can you be a... That's a good one. That's a good one. I think during the Brady years, you could make the cakes of Patriots for.

It's a... I have no problem having the Patriots in that great category. I didn't put them there. Like, the Patriots and the Ravens in particular were two fan bases that I didn't put into great. Because I kind of feel like they're okay. And maybe okay should mean kind of it's good, not great. But you could put the Patriots there. I think you could.

I would. You could argue the Ravens. Fan base belongs there. The Ravens, sometimes they have a problem with that. I know. I know they do. You know, San Francisco's fan base is pretty passionate. I consider them for great.

That's a very passionate fan base. I know it's West Coast and you don't think of it. I think they lost some of that passion when they moved to Santa Clara. Okay. Well, they still... An hour from the city. I know. But the whole...

But it's still, you know, Santa Clara, I'm heading towards San Jose. Those are still, that's still 49ers country. I know. I know. Um, and then the next category, I just, I had, you know, Chicago, San Francisco, Baltimore. Denver, remember at one point, you could put top top. here. Dallas, Tampa, Indie, Houston, Detroit, the Giants, Jets, Patriots, and I put Washington in that category. And we'll come back to them in a moment. Subpar, less than average, Arizona, Miami, Atlanta, Raiders, Rams, Tennessee, Jacksonville, and Carolina.

I did not have Washington in that category. And I don't have Washington in the great category. And I'll just give you my Washington spiel now and then you can you can weigh in to me Washington was and has been up until this year they would have been in the subpar less than average fan bases they would have been with Arizona Miami you know Atlanta Jacksonville Carolina I mean everything all of the data would suggest that basically and I've said this for five years all of the data suggests that two thirds of the fan base essentially left during the years 2018 through 2023. You know, it wasn't, it was a gradual build up until 2018, 2019 of losing fans. Let's not forget, it wasn't all 25 years of Snyder that they didn't have a fan base

because people were still super passionate during the Joe Gibbs years. You know, in the 2000s, it was really the Zorn back-to-back years, Zorn Year 2, and particular, that the fan base started to hit rock bottom and they understood that it was just not the same anymore. 2012, a resurrection, a one year, incredible season. And 2015 and 2016 were not 2012, but people were back. But from 2017 on, 2018 on, two-thirds of this fan base disappeared. Gone. It was far less than average. I think this past year, it moved up a rung to an OK fan base. But let me just say that it's a year away from being a great fan base again. But I put it in the OK category because of things that we've talked about. These games

despite the fact that they were one of the most exciting teams, biggest surprise teams right from the jump. Okay, this team started four and one. It had very early on in its season a clear cut answer as to whether they had gotten it right or not on the quarterback, and the answer was yes. He was already having a great season. He had become a star by the time we had gotten to the midway point of the season, and yet they didn't come close to selling out a majority of their games. Number two is, we've talked about it. They were 23rd, 23rd in the league, 21st in the league. I'm forgetting now. Way down the list in local TV numbers, massive disappointment in terms of how many people were watching. The tent got bigger, the bubble got bigger, however you

want to describe it, but we're in that bubble. We're in that tent. It got bigger. It got much bigger than it's ever been since 2012, but it's still not, you know, based on the numbers, what some people think it grew into this year. I think it can next year get to that next rung. But for now, I put it in that middle tier. It's an okay fan base, but rising. I think that's rising. I think that's a fair assessment. I think that's pretty fair. Where did you put Tennessee? I put Tennessee in the subpar less than average category. Do you think it should be in the okay category? I'm fine with that. No. No, no, no, no. No. No. No. I'm just asking, maybe I didn't pay attention closely enough.

Cincinnati, where did you put them? In the okay, in that third tier. And what about Houston? In that third tier. Okay, I think that's good. I mean, I'll tell you what, Indies fan base is pretty damn passionate. But right now, it's taking a step back. Look, I think that there is some, like,

you know, this dove climbing through the lions on the best fans. I mean, the lions didn't start selling out their home games until just, you know, two years ago. I know Detroit fans love their lions. And the relationship they've had during all these down years is different than the relationship we had with our team, because they didn't have all of the shenanigans going on, you know, alongside the losing. but, and, you know, it's been an untapped kind of thing that they've tapped into here recently, but Buffalo and Green Bay fans and Seattle fans, they're pretty much showing up regardless of what the record is. Yeah, well, Buffalo and Green Bay, well, Buffalo not so much because you have a hockey team.

But Green Bay, it's a one-act town, the Packer City only act. I mean, it's a lot of Milwaukee. It's a lot of Milwaukee people that go to Packers fame. I know. The Saints have a basketball team that nobody pays attention to. That's kind of a one-city act. And, you know, Buffalo, I'm not going to say they're not a one-city act, but the Sabres are a presence there.

But, you know, it's interesting. The two cities you mentioned are the ones that probably, it's hardest for fans to get to a game. I know. Yeah. For those, I mean, for those that don't understand what Tommy said, Green Bay is not a suburb of Milwaukee, but most of the fans that go to Packers games, I would assume the majority are, if not the majority, the plurality of fans are from Milwaukee, right? They're probably from all over the state. But in terms of the city in Wisconsin, that has the most, you know, that's the biggest portion of the Green Bay season ticket base,

it's got to be Milwaukee. And how long is that drive? A couple of hours, right? Yeah. What is it? I'd say so. I'm looking it up. I mean, I think it's a couple of hours.

Yeah, it's an hour and 49 minutes. It's not a suburb of Green Bay. And Rich in Orchard Park is... a hike from Buffalo, right? Right. Well, you said it was. I'm asking you. I don't know.

When I meant difficult to go to, I usually mean conditions to watch a game. Oh, I thought you were talking. Okay, Orchard Park is not. The Orchard Park is 30 minutes from downtown Buffalo. I mean, conditions to sit outside and watch your play. I understand. My fault.

Those are the two most difficult cities of all. Well, you also pointed out. that, you know, the towns in which the, you know, they don't have a lot of competition, obviously, you know, Buffalo doesn't have a lot of competition. Green Bay doesn't. Jacksonville. You know, they're almost kind of like college towns when it comes to their passion for that team. Look, you see it in the NBA with a team like Oklahoma City or a team like, you know, Salt Lake, like the Utah Jazz. You see the same thing is that there's unbelievable passion because that's what they have. You don't have, and you get that in college towns in the south and in the Midwest when you

don't have a lot of other things. So that's a part of it. But anyway, so we agree on where Washington is right now, but we both think it's, we could be a year from now talking about the fan base being a great fan base, not being the best, but being great. Yes. And why are we? Well, I think you did, You did a much better job, I think, than this guy did. Well, I would hope I could do a better job than he did. You know, somebody called me and said, because we took calls on this this morning, and somebody said, you know, the limitation to getting back to where it was in the 80s or 90s is that it is a split fan base.

You have the old guard versus the new guard. And, you know, a lot of that has to do with the name, et cetera. I don't know that it's split. I suggested Tommy that it's in thirds, that it's not 50% this, 50% that. I think there's a third that is all in, all in. And we saw that passion this year. I think there's still a third that is mostly out. And then I think there's a third in the middle that doesn't like a lot of, you know, what's gone on

and doesn't feel it the same way, but is into. to it nonetheless. They're paying attention. They're watching it. They're excited that D.C.'s represented once again as a legitimate NFL town. They're excited about the team. And it's a good team and it's a good group of people on the team, leading it, the quarterback, et cetera. It's a likable team. I think we talked about that at the end of the year. I think that's kind of the state of the fan base right now. I think you're right. But is it a sleeping giant? As people have said over the years? Well, remember that when Brian Lafamina called the Washington Redskins fan base a sleeping giant, that pissed off Bruce and Dan to no end. They did not want to be thought of as like

this, you know, plucky little underdog sleeping giant. Remember that really, that was, that that almost guaranteed Lafamina of a year or less. You were the one to predict that. of course, rent don't buy, Brian. But when he said that before the season started, that was hysterical. That was an indication that he did not know. He did not have a good feel for the room out there at all. You know, I was in the room when he said it. He was meeting with reporters in a big room at the park.

And when he said it, because Bruce Allen wasn't in the room. It's just him. Yeah. I felt like the floor was going to open up and swallow us. Well, remember the other thing he did is before the opener that year, their home opener was against Indianapolis. They opened with that win against Arizona, which was Adrian Peterson's first game, Alex Smith's first game.

And then they came home against Indianapolis, and they had like $50,000 on a beautiful day after a win. But before the indie game, he went on TOP and said, we got plenty of tickets for the game. The game's not sold out. We have plenty of tickets. And they were really pissed off. So he did the sleeping giant followed by admitting that they weren't going to be sold out

and that they did not have a waiting list anymore. It was talk about detached. I mean, we both know how upset Dan and Bruce were that he said those things publicly. And that is an incredible, you know, reflection of how detached they were from sort of the understanding that fans had that the waiting list at that point was made up, that there wasn't one. Because if there was a waiting list, why was everybody getting constantly mailed offers for season tickets? And I remember saying to you, I think, one day, I was like, I don't get it. Like if you have tickets, why wouldn't you want to tell people that you're going to. you have tickets. Well, it was the arrogance. They were living on, you know, the past. They didn't

want the perception to be ruined, but people already knew. They knew they didn't have a waiting list at that point. They still don't have a waiting list. So they don't. They got to sell, I've said this already, they got to sell out their tickets for the upcoming season. That would be a really good sign that they're on their way to becoming a great fan base. The expectations for this upcoming season will be the highest level of expectations that we've had for the team since 2000, I would guess, when Snyder's first year going out and signing all those free agents after they had won the division. Signing all those players. Yeah. Because 2013, it's a lot harder, it's a lot harder to sell season tickets today than it was 20, 25 years ago.

Yeah, it is. And what are the reasons for that? Well, people don't like to commit to that kind of financial commitment. And if you're talking about young people, in particular, young people don't like to plan their next four months of what they're going to do. they barely plan the next four days of what they're going to do. Yeah, I was going to say the trend over the last 10 years, at least, of just fewer people wanting to go to games because the value and the convenience from home

is just much greater than it's ever been. That's true. The experience at home is much better. and the experience at the game with the high concession prices and the parking prices and the lack of access in and out of stadium. Yeah, you're right. I should have mentioned that as well. Rate us and review us if you get a chance on Apple and Spotify. It's really important for us.

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If you want to bet on sports, my bookie is the recommendation. Use my promo code when you sign up. Kevin, D.C. If there's something already written in the promo code section, erase it and write Kevin D.C. You'll get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. They've got everything you need for tonight's Four Nations championship game

between Canada and the U.S. in Boston. Tommy, this is a difficult ticket. Have you seen the skyrocketing ticket prices for this thing? This thing has been a hit. And at my bookie right now, Canada is a minus 110 favorite. Just slight, slight favorite. Total goals, four and a half. They've got all the college hoops you need leading right into March and March madness tonight. Maryland is at it. They are home against Southern Cal. The Terps are laying 10 and a half against Southern Cal tonight. MyBooky, everything you need for your sports betting needs. Go to MyBooky.orgie.org, use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. Are you into this hockey thing? I think I'm going to watch it tonight. I mean, the intensity of the teams involved has, I think,

captivated hockey fans everywhere. People have been into this thing. They're looking forward to the game tonight. I think I'll be watching it. I'm certainly interested about the atmosphere that I read about, particularly the first time these guys played each other. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of interest in it. I mean, the atmosphere was in part because the game was in Montreal.

There was some political backdrop to this. The Canadians being really upset. with the Americans right now and with Trump. But the intensity of the game, I don't think had anything to do necessarily. The players in the game had anything to do with that. Definitely the crowd. Tonight's game is in Boston. Yeah, look, Maryland plays tonight at 8.30 against Southern Cal.

Maryland's one of the hottest teams in the country. The Terps are playing great. I can't wait to watch them tonight. They should win again tonight. This would be 8 out of 9. So that starts at 8.30. but I'm definitely going to be, you know, I'm going to check this hockey thing out. I have not watched any of it.

I had Ben Rabi on radio. Ben's actually one of my favorites. You know, he's Canadian. He's from Montreal. He grew up in Montreal. He's actually a huge college basketball fan, which I think a lot of Caps fans would have no idea about. But Ben was a part of the radio broadcast pre-post, you know, interim for years. He isn't anymore.

But he said going into this as a, you know, you know, hockey, devout, you know, a fan that he was indifferent to this going into it. And he thinks that a lot of hockey fans in general were indifferent going into this. This is kind of a replacement for the All-Star, you know, break. And then once they saw the first game, you know,

and it wasn't even the USA Canada game, Canada against Sweden, I think, was the first game. Everybody got hooked because of the intensity of the players. So, yeah, I'm going to watch some of this. But I understand it. It's a one-time thing, right? No, apparently.

Apparently they now are thinking about, you know, redoing this, maybe even with more teams. Because it's Finland, Sweden, the U.S. and Canada are the four nations. So, yeah. Look, moving this back to just the NBA also. Star Weekend, which, by the way, was very low-rated. Not as bad. It's like the second lowest rated of all time, I think. This was the conversation we had on Tuesday.

Would international versus American work? Well, that's just one game. That's not taking a week and a half off to play an in-season international tournament. That actually would be more interesting to me. But I don't know if you can get NBA players to care as much. much as hockey players. I don't think you can. Why don't you think you can?

Because I don't think they care much about anything. The NBA players? Yeah. They care. Look, they care during the Olympics in Paris. I mean, that was one of the most entertaining gold medal games of all time. So I'm not going to knock them for not being patriotic or not wanting to play for their country. But I think in the middle of their regular season, you know, like I said the other day,

first of all, they treat the NBA like it's a bank, like it's an ATM, and it's, it just keeps printing money for them. They are much, much wealthier than, than hockey players in general. And I think that it's just hard to get them to play hard at any point until the playoffs begin. That may be. Speaking of the NBA. Yeah. I got an idea. Hit me with it. Why don't you and I go to a wizard's game together this year?

Huh? Why are you saying that? I know why you're saying that. You're saying that because the person that kept you from going to games there for many years is no longer with the team. Is that why you're saying it? Well, no, I mean, I could get a press credential and go to a game if I wanted. What if you don't have parking?

What if you don't have a... A wizard's game? What if you don't have a... A wizard's game? Am I supposed to pick you up and drop you off? I would be going to cover the game. Uh-huh. I can park near Shelly's and walk down.

Uh-huh. You know? You're going to walk from Shelly's? I just thought it would be nights that you and I could go to a game together. You're going to walk six blocks from Shelly's? Yeah, I've done that before. Okay. Why do you want, where is this coming from?

I didn't say anything. Forget, I just, I miss you, I guess. That's not true. All right. If anybody misses each other, it would be me missing doing it with you in person more often than not. I would love to go to a game with you. Why don't we just meet at Shelley's and have a great burger, a couple of beers and a cigar, rather than the pain of going to watch the Wizards?

Do you know this will be the first year? I have not gone to a Wizards game in my life. in my adult life, well, even going back to when I was a kid. I went to one game last year. I went to the, I went and saw LeBron when he came into town with the Lakers. I have not been to a game this year. What game do you want to go to? Is there a specific, did you look at the schedule and pick one? No, I didn't look at the schedule. I didn't know this would be such a burden for you. I didn't say it was a burden. I'm just surprised by it.

You know, forget I even said anything. I'm just wondering why you did say something. did you bring it up? Again, I just thought it'd be fun. You and I hanging out, making fun of the wizards together in person. But it's not a making fun of because they're in a process that I agree with. Oh, yeah. They're a process, all right.

Read my column tomorrow about the process. Okay, so this is what's driving. In the paper. You've written a column about the wizards, and now you're, you're setting it up for me to read the column and do something with the column. No, no, no, no. No, that's not why I just, again, I'm not telling, I'm not kidding. I thought it'd be something fun to do, but for, you know what, forget, I even said anything about you and I doing something together. No, let's do it. I'm looking at the schedule right now. Why don't we pick a game? I'm not going to want to do it during March

Madness. All due respect to the Wizards, I'd much rather watch March Madness games than go to one of their games at home. But they play in April. Well, we, I mean, March Madness doesn't happen on like a Monday. They play Toronto at home on Monday, March 24th. By the way, can't imagine tickets will be that difficult to get. No. I wouldn't think so. There are 28th in attendance in the league, by the way.

Is that part of your column? No, but it's mentioned in there. Tell me what your column's about, because we're not going to talk until Tuesday. We talked about this before. We talked about this before, you know, this core group of young players, you know, the Wizards? Yeah. Seven out of the 10 worst plus-minus statistics this year are Wizards players.

Seven. Right. Last year, it was five. Five out of the 10. No other team comes close to dominating the worst plus minus in the league like Washington does. Okay. I get it. They're losing by 13 points a game in average.

Right. They're losing by a huge mark. It's not historic, but it's close to historic, the margin of loss. I know that. I get that. But this can't be good. I mean, if a plus minus, it's just a stat, it's just a tool, but I think it has some value. And the value is almost like the intangibles, like how you help your team win. And seven out of ten, no other team has more than one.

Well, again, it's because of the margin of loss. for the team. Well, last year, five out of ten. Well, they didn't have the same... Well, they did have a big marginal loss last year, too. So what are you saying? Is your conclusion that they've picked the wrong young people so far? My conclusion is, don't get so excited.

Who is? A limited fan base that exists. Who is getting excited? So excited. Who's getting excited? Who's getting excited? Kula Bali, Carrington. Yeah.

George, you know, that core group. You forgot the number two pick. Yeah, Alex Sar is the number two pick and draft. All these guys are in the top ten among the worst when lost that in the league. Hey, Tom. Tommy. Tommy. What?

When you play 18 and 19 and 20-year-olds in the NBA in a grown man's league, you're going to be a bad team. a bad team. You're going to be bad for a while. You're going to be bad team. You're going to be bad for a while. I know that. Right.

I didn't say they wouldn't be bad, but they are really bad at something that I would think I'd be concerned about in terms, you know, it's funny. I wrote this. You know, are they developing bad habits by losing so poorly? But then I realized that the NBA is a league full of bad habits, so it really doesn't matter. Okay. I, there's one player, I haven't watched, I just haven't watched enough of it. So I, I've said this when I briefly talked about the Wizards and risked losing all of our listeners talking about the Wizards previously. To say to preface what I'm going to say with, I just haven't watched like I normally watch this team.

But I do like Kaishan George, all right? Of the players, when I have watched, to me, he does a lot of things well. He's 6-8, he's 2-15 or whatever he is. He can shoot it. He can guard. I think he appears to have some high basketball IQ. I like Kulabali. I don't think they hit on the superstar, the transcendent star with Kulabali.

I think they hit on a guy that if they are good, if they hit on the transcendent star with Cooper Flagg or, you know, Ace Bailey or Dylan Harper or the next draft, that he certainly would be a part of what they do because he's an excellent defender. And I've seen Sarr enough to know that he's got some skill and talent, no doubt about that. But I don't know that Kulabali's not, they have not, I don't think. It's too early with Sarr because, and he's also been injured and hasn't played in a lot of games, to know that if their first two drafts, you know, doing what they're doing, tanking the process, whatever you want to call it, I don't know that they've landed on that transcendent, you know,

turnaround franchise young player yet. Maybe too early, probably is too early on Saar and George and Carrington. What I've seen, I don't see that. I don't see the next Janus. I don't see, you know, a Yokic in the group. but maybe they hit on that in the 25 draft. The term, as their general manager calls it, is deconstruction. Yes.

They're still in the deconstruction phase. Yes. And I'm in favor of it. I have no problem with it. This is a lot. Well, you know what? I decided, you know what? I don't want to go to a game with you.

I don't want to sit there and listen to you for two hours, apologize for this piss poor product they'd be putting out there. I'm not apologizing for it. I'm in favor of the process that they've decided to, or take. Well, they have no choice. Well, of course they have a choice. They could do what they've been doing for 45, 50, 40 years or whatever it's been. Try to end up somewhere in the middle and make the playoffs and make the playing, you know, the 7 through 10, like they did a couple of years ago with Beale and Westbrook and, you know, lost to Philly. Well, they actually made it to a series.

They won the playing thing. They could do that. I'd rather invest in a chance that they could actually contend for a title one day. Because they're not L.A., they're not Miami, they're not Boston, they're not New York. They're not a destination for anybody. So they've got to do it the OKC way. They've got to do this this way. It doesn't guarantee anything. I'm not saying that it's going to end up being a championship team in 2032.

I'm just saying that the only way that it can happen is this way. So that's why I'm in favor of it. I'm not enjoying it. Do you think anyone's still listening? I'm fearful that they're not. So let's get to a new subject. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, prize picks is the place to go to for daily fantasy sports.

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Again, download the app today and use my code, Sheean, S-H-E-E-H-A-N, to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, run your game. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, Shelly's back room at 1331 S-T Street, Northwest. One of the things I can't wait to get to when I get back home from Florida. And, you know, it's a cigar bar. I mean, it's got lots more going for it, you know, great menu of food, great menu of drinks. But its primary purpose is a cigar lounge.

And Shelley takes great care to have the best cigars that you can possibly buy on hand for sale. But you want a good cigar, and when you have a good cigar, you want to be a good cigar, you want to take care of it. So if you are, consider yourself a cigar aficionado, and you want to make Shelly's your home away from home, you're going to need a humidor. Well, lucky for you, Shelly's has over 200 humidorers available for annual lease.

They're on the walls of both dining rooms. They provide easy access to your cigars, and they preserve them. You know, cigars, a good cigar is delicately made and requires delicacy, in order to care for them, a certain amount of temperature, you know, certain, you know, not a lot of light, you know, and Shelly's will preserve them in their humadors,

so they will be at your peak when you care to smoke them. You can find out more and get a lease from Shelly's by going online at shelley's backroom.com. All right, you wrote a column, and tell everybody why you're fearful that Trump could kill RFK for Washington's football team. Okay. This is where I wrote a column based on behind the scenes worries that Trump could muck it up. Okay.

Not necessarily kill it, although that's possible, but slow it down because I wrote in like Carl, you know, he's, I mean, he may, he may think, you know, besides Canada and Panama Greenland, he may look out of his window and say, hey, what about this city? here. You know, let's take this over here while we're taking things over, because there's a bill that was introduced in Congress. What are the sponsors is Senator Mike Lee from Utah, and it's called the Bowser Act, and it's basically to do away with home rule, and to put the running of the city back in the hands of the federal government. Now, this has been tried a number of times in pass and it's failed, but I don't think ever with a full Republican Congress in both sides.

You know, so I think there's concern about that, and there's more concern about the control board. The control board was something that Congress instituted when D.C. was going through some financial problems back in the late 90s. And the control board was a federally appointed board that oversaw B.C. business, the way So was this a Clinton administration initiative? Yes. Okay. Yes.

Yeah, it was. So, which would include spending money on a football stadium. Mm-hmm. You know? So that, that complicates at the very least what Mayor Bowser, you know, is hoping to do by pushing for the stadium. So I just wrote that, you know, there had been nothing from Trump yet to indicate that this was a problem. but I wrote that it would be something that it is something that people were concerned about behind the scenes.

Well, let's have 24 hours later, Trump comes out and tells reporters, you know, I think we should take over D.C. I think we do a great job doing it. But that's something that I thought Congress talked about like two weeks ago, the Bowser bill or whatever. But that's Congress. That's not Trump. Okay.

He hadn't said word one about it. Okay. But he also. has never said anything about the stadium, has he? One way or the other? No. Okay. No, he has it. Look, he's a football fan. Yeah. He's probably not going to be inherently opposed to a stadium per se. And Josh Harris, I wrote in the column, has a relationship with Trump. He was actually invited to the White House in 2017 as an advisor on infrastructure. Is he a donor to the Trump campaign? He's been a donor. He's been a campaign donor. So, Tommy,

Tommy. What if Trump says, yeah, you can have the stadium back at RFK if you change the name back to Redskins? Oh, we just figured it out. That's what he should do. This is what I wrote at the end of calm. Trump is such a wild card that anything is possible. What I just said is possible. Well, yeah, you could talk it into existence.

I'm saying, you know, it seems kind of bizarre, except Trump is a wild card. Right. And it doesn't seem so bizarre when he's in office. You know, I had our good friend Eric Flack from Channel 9 on the podcast last week. Of course he did. Eric's great. Of course you did. He's actually really good. Tommy doesn't mind Eric.

He just is upset that Eric didn't credit him for some. I should have called him before I wrote the college. You should have. You should have. In your column, did you make it clear that this is sort of, you know, you've got information on what there's some concern over? I said behind the scenes, there's concern over. Okay.

But I didn't check with Eric first, so who knows what the truth is. He's much more bullish after the mayor's town hall thing that she did. Is that what they called it a week ago? And which she emphatically answered with respect to, would she commit to not using taxpayer funds to build the stadium? And she said, no, I will not commit to that. Because doesn't everybody understand that Josh Harris is not moving the team to the RFK site without somewhere in the neighborhood of, correct me if I'm wrong,

a billion dollars from the city as a contribution? I would say that's an accurate estimate. And some of that's infrastructure that, you know, typically is a part of the deal when you move a team into the city. But, yeah, they're going to have to come up with a billion dollars somewhere around there. Yeah, look, I don't think I wasn't at the forum, okay? From what I read about the public forum, it was not an angry mom. Okay, that spoke out against the stadium.

That is a positive. Okay. What's a little bit disturbing is that Mayor Bowser said that she would have a question and answer with the press after the event and then changed her mind. Didn't take questions. To me, that's a little bit disturbing. I don't know why she would do that. Were they running behind? Was it – you said that.

it was not, there wasn't a lot of pushback at this meeting, so why wouldn't she have to if the environment had been fairly positive, why wouldn't she have taken questions? I didn't say it was fairly positive. It wasn't an angry mob like in Philly, for the

arena that Josh Harris wanted to build. It was a heated you know, mob that the heated group that they would face on a regular basis. A lot of people, as I understand it, there were people, some people who spoke out against it, There were some people who had questions about it that got answered, but I'm not sure it was a

passionate opposition, which I think is the best you could hope for at that point. So I don't know why she wouldn't have taken questions. I would bet she had said she was going to and then didn't. I would bet that it's a best that you could hope for situation, because in those situations, more often than not, the people who are against it show up. Yes. Now, the one thing is, you know, it's a group, it's, it's neighborhoods full of lawyers and lobbyists and things. So there may be some people that choose to fight this in the courts when it went,

when the rubber hits the road, and the city starts talking about spending a billion dollars. Right. You know, but initially, I would say the city should be pleased. Based on my report, I wasn't at the form. Based on what I've read, I would say that the city should be relatively pleased about the way it went. So netted out, you believe that as long as the federal government and President Trump don't jump in for whatever reason, remember, the guy Mike Lee, who is in opposition to the RFK site plan, right? That's the guy from Utah. Do I have that right?

Yes. He wanted the city to pay for the land And then backed off of that Because there was a commitment that Whatever they spent as part of this thing They would also put into green spaces around town Am I right about that or not? Yeah

Yeah something good Whatever the value of the actual stadium is there Right That's what they would spend on national park lands Right In the district But Mike Lee is one of the co-sponsors of the Bowser bill, too. Okay, so my, I want you to net it out.

If not for your concerned, and more importantly, the people that you have talked to behind the scenes that are concerned, if not for the concern that the federal government could muck this up, you actually feel more optimistic about the city getting it done with the team than maybe you ever have. True or not? Yes. Okay. Yes. And one of the main reasons for that was Roger Goodell was very outspoken in his support of the stadium site at RFK at the Super Bowl.

He even said it would be good for the nation. So he went really strong. Right. The idea of having the stadium back at RFK. And Goodell, next to, you know, congressional leaders is probably the most bad, and obviously Trump. and the mayor is one of the most powerful voices in this. So that when he came out and it was so public in his support of that site, that's a big one.

That showed me that everybody wants it, except for the Maryland officials, everybody else wants it at the RFK site. You know what else everybody wants? Window Nation windows. call them at 86690 Nation or head to windownation.com to take advantage of a deal that will only be in place for another eight days until the end of the month. 60% off all windows and window styles with no money down, no payments, and no interest for two full years. The cold is not done yet. We're going to have a bit of a warm up this weekend and next week.

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Mention my name. They'll take good care of you. All right. Anything else from you? I got nothing else for you today, boss. All right. I'm going to look at the wizard's schedule, and we're going to find, I mean, we could actually be going to a wizard's game together in springtime and then going to Madrid together in the fall.

Wow, what a year we've got coming up together. So excited. All right, I'll talk to you later. Thanks. I'll be back tomorrow. All right. I'll see you.