The Kevin Sheehan Show - Ravens and 49ers

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

Kevin opened with a comparison between Washington's current hiring cycle and the 1981 Joe Gibbs hiring cycle. He previewed and picked both of the Championship games and then brought Jay Gruden on the show. Jay discussed his hiring here in Washington. He revealed the QB he prefers in the 2024 NFL Draft. He also previewed and picked both the AFC and NFC Championship games before giving out his "Lock of the Week" (11-6 ATS on the show this year). Kevin finished up with three "Smell Test" picks.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. The show is presented by Window Nation, as always. Call them at 86690 Nation or head towindonation.com if you've got a need for new windows. Jay Gruden coming up in the next segment, Jay will preview the two title games,

plus we'll get a lock of the week's selection from Jay. He hit on the lock of the week last week with the Chiefs. And Jay will reveal which of the two quarterbacks, Drake May and Jaden Daniels, he prefers if indeed that's the choice that Washington has at number two in the 2024 NFL draft. Stay tuned for that. The smell test will finish up the show in the final segment. Three picks on the two championship games, two totals and a side. degrees today. A record-setting temperature at Reagan National. I think it was Reagan National. It may have been Dulles, but 80 degrees in the D.C. area. Unbelievable for January 26th. It's not going to

last long. The weather is going to turn chillier. In fact, the weather on Sunday for the Baltimore Kansas City game, rain in Chile low 40s during that game. And, And the long range for you weather geeks like I am does indicate the possibility of some real winter when we get to February in particular. I was thinking about this being the last Friday football show where there are games to talk about plural. We'll have the Super Bowl in two weeks. But this is the 21st consecutive Friday it flies of doing a full-fledged Friday football. show previewing games, talking about games, picking games, smell test, etc. September 8th kicked us off. Remember, as we were getting ready for a sold-out home opener, first game without Dan Snyder,

the debut as a full-time starter for Sam Howell, and Washington won the game, 20 to 16. Wasn't impressive when you think about that opener. They struggled against the Arizona Cardinals, But then they went and beat Denver the following week, and we thought, here we go. Two and O start, not bad. They would only win two more in their next 15. But man, that seems like so long ago. It is the best time of the year when we start with kind of Labor Day weekend with all of the college football. And then that following week of getting ready for the Thursday night opener, this year was that Kansas City Detroit game.

and then that entire week one, which included, you know, Washington and Arizona. The late game that day, if you recall, was Philly in New England. Philly won the game. And the game of the day featured Miami and the Chargers. And I was just looking at the week one results. Miami beat the Chargers 36 to 34. And I think, you know, in the moment, there were a lot of people that thought these are two really good football teams. You know, two teams that were in the post-year-old.

season the year before, but two teams that really have a chance this year. And for much of the season, it looked like Miami really did. And then in that week one Sunday night game, that was the night that the Cowboys beat the Giants 40 to nothing. 21 consecutive Friday football shows. No Friday football show next week, but we'll be back with a Friday football show. It doesn't mean we're not going to have shows, as you know, but we'll be back with our next Friday and final Friday football show before the Super Bowl in Las Vegas. So I wanted to read this note that I got from Liam to start the show. Liam wrote, Kevin, big fan of the show. I don't live in a family of sports fans. My father is a theater actor. My mother works for a tech company in Virginia. But my love

for football started when my friend invited me to the Redskins Cowboys game in 2006. It was the game where Sean Taylor picked up a blocked field goal and Nick Novak kicked the game-winning field goal on the next play. I was hooked. Let me just interject and I'll read the rest of Liam's note here in a moment. That's a hell of a first game to go to. It was not a good season, 2006. But Troy Vincent blocked the kick. Sean picked it. it up. He starts running around. They grab his face mask. They add 15 yards to the end of the return. They also have the untimed down. And Nick Novak drills it through the uprights for a 25-22. No, not 25-22. 22 to 19, I think, was the final score. I'm pretty sure that's correct.

That's a really good first game, Liam, for you to have gone to. And I can imagine it was a game were easily hooked. He writes after that, I wasn't around for the glory years that you lived through, but I was wondering if the start of those years is in any way similar to what is going on now, with a highly desired general manager in place, and it looks like the number one offensive coaching candidate,

like Joe Gibbs, on his way to DC2. Thank you for the next. note, Liam. So it's not dissimilar, but it's not exactly the same for a lot of reasons. Let me start with this. Number one, the glory years from my standpoint didn't start with Joe Gibbs in 1981. It started with George Allen coming to Washington in 1971. Washington had been a perennial loser for two to three decades. I mean, they hadn't won since Sammy Ball was in uniform when George Allen arrived. And that really started a 22-year run, 71 through 92, of Washington going to the playoffs 13 times in 22 years, five Super Bowl trips in 22 years, and three Super Bowl victories during those 22 years.

I think the glory years are really George Allen, 1971, through Joe Gibbs and Joe Gibbs' final year in 1992. And then the glory years era was over. So that's for starters. I don't consider. I think most of you listening would agree with me that the winning started and the tradition of Washington being the biggest show in town by far, the football team, really started with George Allen. Some of you would say the sunny years prior to George Allen with Charlie Taylor and Jerry

Smith and Bobby Mitchell, etc. But they didn't win. The winning started in 71. Now, here is the similarity. The similarity would be if Washington lands Ben Johnson, the number one offensive coordinator that is being viewed as a head coach during this hiring cycle. Joe Gibbs was in a similar spot in 1981. He was the offensive coordinator for Don Correale's San Diego Chargers,

and the Chargers of that era were the most. entertaining offensive team in the league, even though they didn't get to a Super Bowl, but they were just incredibly dynamic and fun to watch offensively. But the general manager was already in place in 1981, and the owner was already in place in 1981. Jack Kent Cook was here, and Bobby Beatherd was here. Beather took over in 78. Beatherd fired Jack Pardee after the 1980 season. There were three years between George Allen and Joe Gibbs.

Those were the Jack Pardee years. They weren't bad years. They went 8 in 8 in 1978. They actually started that season 6 and 0 and then had a terrible end of the season and missed the postseason. The 79 season with Pardee is a memorable season. They went 10 and 6, but that season included the famous or infamous season finale in Dallas where they lost 35 to 34 and blew a 13-point lead in the final few minutes of the game. If they didn't blow that lead, they would have been the number one seed

and they would have had home field advantage throughout the playoffs in 1979 and would have been the favorite to go to the Super Bowl that year. We have talked about this many times, but if that had happened, if they had held onto that lead, we may have never seen Joe Gibbs because they would have gone to the playoffs, who knows, maybe advanced to a Super Bowl. That was the year, by the way, Pittsburgh beat the Rams in the Super Bowl. That was the last of the four 1970s, you know, dynasty Chuck Noel Steeler teams that won the Super Bowl. But the other part of that is that Riggins retired for a year.

If they go to the playoffs, if they hold on and beat Dallas, Riggins probably doesn't retire. That loss was so devastating to him that he retired for a year. And Jack Pardee probably has a few more years and Gibbs ends up somewhere else. But anyway, they did lose that game, and Joe Gibbs got hired in 1981 by Bobby Beatherd, who was already there, and Jack Kent Cook, who was already there. But, yeah, if they land Ben Johnson, similar to Gibbs, there weren't many hires in 1981. The number of firings were limited. Bum Phillips got fired in Houston. They had lost a playoff game in 1980.

and by the way, he had gone to back-to-back AFC title games with the Houston Oilers in 78 and 79, but they fired him and hired one of his assistants, Ed Biles. Bum Phillips then went to New Orleans and replaced Dick Nolan. And then there was one other opening other than Washington. That was Denver. They fired Red Miller, who had taken the Broncos to the Super Bowl in 1977, and they hired Dan Reeves.

Now, Reeves was considered to be a guy at 37 years old that was a head coaching candidate, but many people back then assumed that Reeves was the heir apparent to Tom Landry. But Reeves got sick of waiting around for Landry to retire, and it would be many more years, six more years, until Landry was run out by new ownership, Jerry Jones, or Jimmy Johnson, and Reeves took the job in Denver. So Reeves and Gibbs were considered comparable offensive minds working for head coaches who called, you know, plays offensively. I think Coriol called plays. I'm not sure. But Gibbs was, you know, kind of a get. He was sought after. Now, Washington hired the number one offensive coordinator.

during the hiring cycle in 1994 in hiring Norv Turner. Norv Turner was the guy to get when he was the offensive coordinator for Jimmy Johnson in Dallas. Jay Gruden was hired as a sought-after offensive coordinator in 2014. You'll hear him talk about the hiring process when he got hired by Washington coming up in the next segment. But anyway, thanks, Liam. One other thing, too, as it relates to the Gibbs hiring in 81 and the potential hiring of Ben Johnson here in 2024. I don't know how many of you will agree with me on this, but I remember thinking when Joe Gibbs got hired, I remember my reaction being Joe who? I don't think in 81 we had a lot of interest.

I don't think we had a lot of awareness as fans of coordinators. coaches, head coaches, and players. I'm sure there were a couple of coordinators. I mean, I remember Bud Carson as an example in Pittsburgh. There are probably a couple of others, but Joe Gibbs came in in 1981 as a mystery to fans. And there were a lot of question marks. Like, who? What are you doing? Who are you hiring? That's not the case with Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson will come in with expectations. Ben Johnson will come in with a lot of fans. if he gets hired next week or, you know, after Detroit plays in a Super Bowl. Anyway, all right, let's get to Jay Gruden here in a moment.

But before that, let me give you my thoughts on the two championship games along with predictions on both. First of all, I can't wait to watch Baltimore and Kansas City on Sunday. I just think that this is one of the biggest conference championship matchups in terms of anticipation we've had in a long time. Maybe the Brady game with Tampa at Lambo against Rogers a few years ago was, you know, hyped up in a big way. But this is Patrick Mahomes and the run of the chiefs of the last five years against the best team of this season. Lamar Jackson, you've got stars.

it's the more anticipated of the two championship games on Sunday. I just think Baltimore is too good for everybody left in this field. And I think Kansas City is going to reveal themselves once again to be who they've been throughout the year. Now, the last two games against the dolphins in the frigid weather at Arrowhead and against a Buffalo team that was banged up, you know, there are a lot of people that believe, hey, here come the Chiefs, Again, they've rediscovered themselves offensively. Look out. I think it's more about the two opponents and the setting of the two games. If you go back to the last legitimate good defensive team they faced, it was the Raiders on Christmas Day. They lost the game outright. With the Raiders generating

hardly any offense, they struggled to move the ball consistently against New England in December in a game in which they were facing a really good defensive team. And neither of those two teams is anywhere near as good as Baltimore is defensively. I think the Ravens are going to win this game big. I think Mahomes is going to be not good. I think it's not going to be his fault. It's going to be all about the Baltimore defense. But I think we're going to see one of the worst statistical days from Patrick Mahomes. I don't see Pacheco being able to run the football against Baltimore's defense. I just like the Ravens. I think they remind me so much of the 91 They are such a complete football team.

They are dominant defensively. They are explosive in multiple ways offensively. Their special teams are great. I like Baltimore Sunday in the first game, 27 to 10 over Kansas City. NFC championship game. Detroit's not a good defensive football team. They're just not. I would be concerned a little bit.

if I were a 49er fan because of the way Green Bay moved the football against them last week. But I really see this being a Christian McCaffrey kind of a game. Brock Purdy, I don't think, is going to have to do that much. If he does have to do a lot, I'd be a little bit concerned. I'm not sold on Brock Purdy. I didn't think he played that well last week. When he hasn't had his weapons around him, they haven't done very well. offensively, but this is a McCaffrey game. To me it is. I like the 49ers to roll. Detroit's just

happy to be there. There's pressure on the Niners. They've got to win this game. They've got to get back to a Super Bowl. The latest news is the Debo Samuel. More likely than not, we'll probably give it a go. We'll see if he's 100%. I like the Niners to roll in this game, 31 to 17 over the Lions. If San Francisco is forced somehow to do it through the air and they put it on Purdy somehow, then they could be in trouble. But I don't see how Detroit's defense is able to consistently stop McCaffrey. And I like the 49ers offensively to do a really good job in this game. I also see it as a game that will move quickly because the 49ers will run the football and have success running the football. It's going to be a low possession game.

You know, the 49ers will have eight or nine real possessions, but I think they'll score on like five of them. Four touchdowns, a field goal. I don't think this game's ever in doubt. 3117 49ers over Lions, and I've got the Ravens 27 to 10 over the Kansas City Chiefs. All right, Jay Gruden next right after these words, from a few of our sponsors.

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Jay Gruden's with us as he is every Friday here on this show as we head into Championship weekend. We'll finish up with Jay's lock of the week at the end of this conversation. I want to start with the fact that Bill Belichick, it looks like, isn't going to be hired in this hiring cycle. I know you know Rahim Morris. Well, He worked for you here. He worked for your brother in Tampa Bay. But are you surprised that we're down to two openings, Washington and Seattle? And it's looking like Belichick isn't going to be a coach in the NFL next year?

Very surprised. Beke Carroll, Bill Belichick, and Mike Ravel might get shut out. But Bill Belichick, obviously, is a big story because he's been so successful, what so many Super Bowls, blah, but I think owners are probably a little concerned that he doesn't have much time left to coach. and they don't want to go through this process again. They're looking for the next young upcoming coach that can last for some time, and they're afraid Bill will probably coach three or four years and step down, I guess.

That's the only thing I can think of. I mean, you don't think it has something to do with the fact that he wasn't very good without Brady, do you? Do most people in the NFL understand that he's still a really good coach or not? I mean, that could. That could because they weren't very good the last couple years without Brady, that's for sure. And, you know, they did good with Matt Castle one year. I think he went 11 and 5 with Matt Castle, which I thought was his best year of coaching when Brady missed that one year.

But yeah, I mean, you know, these guys understand that Seattle, you know, they got Gino Smith, and I guess that would be a good fit because he's more experienced guy. Atlanta was looking for a new quarterback to build and probably have to draft in another young guy, and they probably just don't think Bill has time to develop a young quarterback. How good of a coach will Rahim Morris be this go-round? Well, he's the exact opposite of Bill Belichick, that's for sure. He's more of a player's coach. He's very energetic.

He's very similar to Mike Tomlin. They actually work together. Actually, I shared an office with Mike Tomlin and Rahim Morris when we were at Tampa. Really? He's actually pretty fun. They're both great guys and great motivators and understand the heartbeat of the football team and can motivate extremely well. Rahim has experience on both sides of the ball, so he has knowledge on both sides of the ball.

He was an offensive coach at some time for Kyle, and he's a defensive coach. coach, obviously, with the Rams and with Tampa Bay and different teams. So he's a good coach. I like Rahim a lot and got great energy and players all like him. When you shared an office with Mike Tomlin and Rahim Morris, was that, I'm just, and I'm forgetting, was that the Super Bowl year or not? Yes, it probably was. It was a lot of years.

I was there for six or seven years. So the very first year I did not share an office with him. I got moved up in the ranks from a closet to a little. computer next to them right in the office there. So yeah, I think it was probably not the Super Bowl year. Because Super Year is the first year, so probably a couple years after. What was it like to be hired

by your brother? Like how does you know, there's been talk over the years about nepotism in the NFL, the Shanahan's obviously here. What's that like to be the brother of the head coach? It was great.

You know, I never really thought about really working for them as much he's helping him, trying to help whatever he wanted. And I just try to give him as much information that he's looking forward, not overstep my boundaries. Just try to give him the pulse of the team from my view and any ideas that he wanted. It was very easy.

You know, it wasn't really a full-time gig. I was still working in the arena league either as a player or coach, so I was more of a seasonal coach back then, just an offensive assistant. I'd help with the red zone and a third-down packages and things of that nature. And then on game day, I would be his eyes and ears up there and help him recommend plays and talk to him on the phone and all that stuff. So on the headset.

So it was great, man. It was never an issue. What's the age difference between you and your older brother? It's like three years. Three years. Are there other siblings? My oldest brother, Jim, is a radiologist. He works in New York City.

He's like on the top in his field. He works in New York City and University of Duke. Was he a football guy before he became a radiologist? No, no, no. They're him and my brother. the youngest son, and those two were polar opposites growing up. One was a genius and the other one was a jock. And they fought every day, as I did, just try to break up. I just want to play Nerf basketball or something like that. And they were always fighting. So I was always a mediator.

Was Jay encouraging? Did he think you were a guy that could potentially be a head coach when you were working for him as a young, you know, assistant just running around doing whatever he wanted you to do? Yeah, he actually tried to hire me in 1997. I just took a job with the Nashville Cats was my first coaching job in the arena league. And Eddie Kiat was a head coach, and John just got the offensive coordinator job in Philadelphia with Ray Rhodes,

and he wanted me to come be his quality control guy. And that's a huge step right there. I mean, that is a great opportunity for a young coach. And I turned him down because I had just taken a job with Eddie Kiat, and he gave me the job. And I was really helping him build a program because he didn't really know much about the arena league. And I just came out as a player.

So I stayed in Nashville, and he ended up higher Sean Peyton. So, yeah, I think it was probably bad mistake by me to say, but I just felt like I had to stay with the old soldier Eddie Kayat for giving me the opportunity there. They ended up getting a head coaching job in the Arena League. And then obviously, thankfully, he got the job in Tampa in 2002, and I was playing quarterback still in Orlando, so I could get my foot in the ring in the 11-man game. I was going to. I was afraid, you know, the arena league's the future was looking a little shaky.

scared that I'd just be known as an eight-man guy. So to get seven years working with my brother in Tampa really made a huge difference in my coaching career. Do you remember those days with your brother going from Oakland and away from Al Davis to Tampa and then ultimately the matchup in the Super Bowl? I mean, what was it like to be around that? Oh, it was great. I mean, it was like, and players were unbelievable.

We had really incredible talent on defense. Obviously, everybody knows about that. But John did an unbelievable job in the offense because when he got the job, their offense, wasn't very good. And they're Brad Johnson, and obviously we had Keenan McCardell and Guy Sean and Joe Jarrah Fish just had some good plays. And Mike Allsott was a heck of a back, a battering back, and the offense line was, you know, kind of in shale.

He did a really good job of the offensive line and getting those guys playing well. And obviously the tight ends and all that stuff. Michael Pittman at running back. And he just utilized matchups very well. And in the Super Bowl kind of in the playoffs, it kind of came along. Nobody expected us to speak Philadelphia in the conference championship, that's for sure. underdogs, I think, by 10 or 12. I remember Jerobitious catching a jerk route going about 75 yards down a side high

and all-stop putting in and Ronde getting a fumble return for touchdown. Yeah, those are great times, man, and those guys played hard. And everything kind of clicked at the right time. That's what the key in the NFL is staying healthy, number one. And then obviously continue to get better and then clicking at the right time. And that's what they did that year. Yeah, I mean, that team really was known, though, for its dominant defense. Yeah, yeah, but offensively they made plays when they had to in a Super Bowl.

You know, they had two defensive touchdowns, but offensively, we put up like, you know, four or five touchdowns as well, so played pretty good as well. Yeah, no, it was. But defensively, yeah, they were sick on defense. There's no doubt about it. The Philadelphia, that was a stunner in that NFC championship game. They lost two of them at home during that era before they finally broke through and won one. because I think they played three, if my memory serves me correctly, they played three straight NFC championship games at home,

lost the first two, and then won the third one, went on to the Super Bowl and lost to New England. Of your brothers, though, you were the – you were by far and away the most accomplished athlete, right? Yes, John was a really good athlete. He just didn't grow. He was a really good baseball player, good quarterback. He went to Muskegonne College, and he transferred to Dayton, or vice versa.

remember. He transferred to Dayton. No, he went to Dayton and transferred to Muskingham. But, yeah, he was a really good quarterback. He just never grew past 5'9, and he was really, really good baseball player. He had a great arm, but just couldn't grow. And I happened to get the blessing of being able to grow past 6'6 foot. And I was the first team all-state football and baseball. So, yeah, it was pretty good. Do you have any ties to the Louisville football program? Like, do they ever ask you to do things for them? And I'm curious as to whether or not that, that, you know, that connection has you at all, you know, ever in Lamar Jackson's presence? No, no, no.

I was Howard Snellenberger's first recruiting class, and we weren't very good back then, but I feel like I'm the reason, and I just take this, you know, sarcastically I say this, that they got a new stadium and they are where they are because I was the building block, you know, my squad, my recruiting class, versus Schnellenberger's class, we were three, two and nine, 3-701 and 3-8, and then we went 8 and 3, beat Virginia, we beat North Carolina, we had some really good wins that year. We didn't go to a bowl game because there weren't as many bowls back then, but that enabled them to recruit guys like Lamar and Dave Ragon and Jeff Brom and those guys.

So, yeah, so we were the building block. Yeah, I mean, there's a history. Yeah, go ahead. I'm good friends with Jeff Brom, the head coach. I was actually, I was a GA and a student assistant for a couple of years after I graduated, and Jeff Brom was one of the quarterbacks. So we were pretty good friends. I kind of forget why Schnellenberger ended up leaving Miami shortly after winning a national championship.

He signed on to the new league, the U.S.FL, the Washington, whatever team it was, and they never came to fruition. That team never came out, and then he took the Louisville job. Yeah, that's right, because the U.S.FL was right around the time Miami won the national championship game. but Washington did end up with the U.S.FL team. They were called the Washington Federals. Yeah, yeah, I think he was offered that. Something happened with that job, if I recall correctly, and it fell through, and then he ended up going to Louisville.

He was there for a while? He went to Oklahoma. Yeah, he was there for a good amount of time. Then he went to Oklahoma for a year, and then he went to Florida Atlantic. The only last of the year at Oklahoma, because his ways of coaching were old school. Now, it was punishing the players. It was training camps three days.

It was hard on players and running gasser until people almost passed out, no water breaks. You know, it was tough. And I heard at Oklahoma the main guy came up to him say, you've got to be easier on the players. You're killing these guys. And he said, you just worry about the women's basketball schedule. I'll worry about my football team. That's the way he was. He was a great football coach, but he was really hard on the players, man.

If you didn't like football, you couldn't play for him. Is he alive? I don't even know. No, he passed away a couple years ago. You know, he coached Jim Kelly at Miami. It was really the beginning of Miami's, you know, ascension into a powerhouse program. He also recruited and coached Bernie Kozar. Yeah.

And Vinny and Vinny. And Vinny. Well, Vinny won the national champion. He won the national championship. I believe Vinny was one of those guys there. I think Vinny was. I'm not sure. But for sure, Jim Kelly and Bernie.

Because that's, you know, his reputation was, you know, throwing the football and all that stuff. That's why I went to Louisville. Yeah. On Ben Johnson, so it looks like that's the target. We've been talking about that for at least, you know, the last two shows that you've been on. He seems to be the guy that they want as their next head coach. Tell me what you like about him by telling me what you like about Detroit's offense.

Well, I like that he utilizes his players the right way. he makes it about the team more so than how creative he can be. He doesn't have to be ultra-creative. He has a really good offensive line, and he takes after the identity his head coach has provided him with the path that the head coach wants. And running the football is number one for them. The play actions off of it obviously are very good,

and then the drop-back game is what it is, and it's pretty good, but, you know, it's not great. It's good. His whole MO is the play actions and the running game and over, you know, behind a powerful offense line. And I think a lot that fourth and goal play last week at the three-yard line where they ran right up the middle right over Vita Bay. It says a lot about their identity.

Not many teams are going to make that call, I promise you that, especially if Tampa Bay's defense. So, yeah, I think he does a good job. He spreads the field extremely well. He's got good personnel combinations. He keeps defenses off balance. But at the end of the day, he understands the identity of that football team and utilizes it perfectly.

as a Washington fan should we be excited about the prospect of Ben Johnson being the head coach and really being the lead offensive guy? Yeah, I think you want an offensive guy right now at the stage of this franchise because of that number two pick. You know what I mean? I think having an offensive-minded guy is good now. Now the coordinators are going to be critical who he hires and how much of the play-calling is he going to do? Is he going to continue to play-call that support? Because, you know, that's why he's getting the job is because his play-calling ability if he gives that up.

you know, how good of a head coach will be as unknown because he's never done it. Hopefully he keeps the play calling duties this year, first couple of years with a new quarterback and they grow together. That's what you want. You want your head coach, your young head coach and your young quarterback to be around a long time. If they hit on that second pick, they get Jaden Daniels or Drake May or Caleb Williams or whoever it is, they can grow together and build this franchise up around the quarterback and around that

head coach and they'll be fine. but his staff is going to be critical. Who's he going to hire a D-Coronator? Who's a guy who's a special teams coach? Who's going to pick the players? And they've got to work all that out. But having Ben Jopton, the young offense coordinator is a really good thing. As it relates to the staff, is it a disadvantage if they win on Sunday?

And there's two weeks between the conference championship win and the Super Bowl and Washington can't officially name him head coach until the second week of February after the Super Bowl. Will that be a disadvantage in putting together a staff or not? A little bit, but I'm sure the main guys, he's probably targeted already and made calls too. So I think those guys will be fine. It's just some of the position coaches might be a little bit tougher because he won't be able to interview him until after he gets the job, obviously. So he might be behind the eight ball there, but I think the main guys will be fine. I'm sure he's got a decontator already targeted.

Maybe somebody on the Detroit staff or somebody's known on the past or somebody that's, that has been let go already. Who knows? And then offensive coordinator, I'm sure he's got somebody that he knows. He's got to be careful running the thing about hiring his buddies. You know what I mean? He's got to hire the best coaches available. Hopefully he has a good defense coordinator.

I have no idea who that would be, but hopefully it's a good one because they really need a good defensive coordinator because personnel-wise, they're behind the eight ball on defense. How did you put together, staff? You were hired earlier, but, you know, people just assume that everybody on the current staff goes. That's never the case. a lot of people on the car and staff end up staying because you can't fill out a whole staff. So explain to everybody how that process works. Yeah, yeah.

I kept some of the guys on staff because I had a lot of respect for Mike and Kyle Shanahan. And obviously their coaching background is pretty strong. And hiring people is pretty good. So Jim has it with a defense coordinator. Jim actually hired me in the UFL. So I felt a sense of loyalty to him and want to give him another chance with the defense and Amy Morris is on that stuff. I kept him, and obviously I kept Sean McVay.

A lot of the guys just left when Chris Buster was a line coach. He's one of the best line coaches in football, and he still is in San Francisco. I think the number one line coach in football personally. So I kept some guys, and I want to keep some of the terminology the same, and defensively I want to try to keep some continuity with the D. I didn't want to start from scratch my first year as a coach. I wanted some experience on my staff, and I wanted some people who had some knowledge of what they did last year, and then obviously we want to try to change some things.

but I knew it was more about players and drafting. We had to get better personnel-wise. We're getting a little older on the defensive line. We didn't have many safeties. Linebackers weren't very big. So we had to really get some players in here. And we missed on some free agents, but we were pretty desperate back then,

personnel-wise on defense, especially. The offensive line was little, so we had to try to find some more offensive line. We got Morgan Moses and Spencer Long and drafting in them. So we just did the best we could. But, you know, it's tough hiring staff just because as a young guy, you don't really know a whole lot. You know, I had experience on my brother's staff, and I was with the Bengals for three years, but obviously I couldn't take anybody from the Bengals that I knew there.

And it was tough hiring people because I didn't really know a lot. I had to interview all these guys. Yeah, that's one of the things I was curious about. You know, as an offensive coordinator, never been a head coach before, is it harder to put together a staff, yes? Yeah, it really is. You got to go by word of mouth, really, people that you know. that, hey, I work with this guy, he's really good, and I work with that guy, he's really good. Because, you know, you start interviewing special team coaches.

You know, they all get on the board. They all know how to trick-to-run punt protection, right? And they all know how to run a kickoff return and kick coverage. It's how they motivate players, how they see players and drafts and how they evaluate players and their scheme has to be sound. And most of them, you get them on a chalkboard for three or four hours. They all can talk up the game. They all know what they're doing.

Same with defensive coordinators and quarterback coaches. I've interviewed a lot of really good coaches. get on a chalkboard, it can wow you. And you're like, damn, this is a great guy. And then you hire them to interview the next guy the next guy. You're like, damn, this guy's good, too. Then the next guy's like, sheet, this guy's good too. And also, it's hard.

But you've got to do the best you can. Word of mouth, people that you know that have worked with these guys. And you're just going to make sure they're loyal people and they're good motivators and they're really good with players and obviously can evaluate talent. Here's something I don't think we've ever talked about. Tell me about the hiring process. When did you know as the Cincinnati offensive coordinator that you were, first of all, going to be sought after.

How many teams did you interview with and just tell me about the process of interviewing here? After my first year, I had a couple calls to interview, and I wasn't really ready. And I felt, you know, like I needed a stay year. It was Andy Dalton's first rookie year. We were 9 and 7. We had a pretty good year. He went to the playoffs, lost in my first round to Houston. But I had some calls for interviews, and I turned them down because I want to stay another year with Andy and Coach Lewis.

And the second year, I had four or five interviews. I think Arizona, Philadelphia. Who else was it? There was three or four other interviews that I did. And then I didn't get any of those in the last year. Washington called me, and I was supposed to interview with Tennessee the following day, but I ended up signed up to Washington. So how did the Washington thing come to fruition?

I obviously knew Bruce back in the Buccaneer days. I think they probably wanted to hire my brother first, but he was working at ESPN. So they came after me and offered me the job because I knew Bruce and obviously had a background there. He was always in the press box with me in the Tampa Bay Buccaneer days. And I think that connection there was really what set it over the edge as far as me getting hired. And obviously, John, not taking it. I don't know if they offered it to my brother or not, but I assume they did.

What went on in the interview process? What goes on in a head coach interview process? It was mainly Bruce and Dan, obviously. and we talked about future staff possibilities, ideas of who I would bring in and make the offensive coordinator. I told him I want to Sean was the offensive coordinator, and they're like, is he think he's ready? I said, yes, he's ready. He's going to, it's a perfect transition because he knows our offense at Tampa Bay. He knows what I did at Cincinnati, and obviously he's got the background with Kyle and Mr. Coach Shanahan,

and we could kind of, you know, make our offense a little bit easier from a transition standpoint and keep some of the same terminology that they had, so it wouldn't be brand new for Robert or Kirk. So that was easy. Then defensively, obviously, I thought they did some decent things on defense, what Coach has with the blitzes, the three, four. They had some two traps that I liked that he did on defense. They just didn't have a lot of great personnel, so I want to give him another chance a year at least.

And then special team-wise, we needed a special team coach, and I went through the interview process. I think we hired Ben Kotlika, and he did a good job. But did you, was it one interview? Yeah, it was just one interview. Face to face with Bruce, with Bruce and Dan? Yeah. Yeah, it was Bruce and Dan at the South, and they offered me the contract and talk to my agent and find it.

Did you ask your brother for advice on working in Washington? No, not really. We knew Bruce and all that stuff. So we had a little bit of background with Bruce. We know it's going to be tough. I mean, they weren't very good. They were three and 13, right? and, you know, that's really good staff.

It's not like, you know, they were, they were, the players were just weren't very good and weren't playing very good at the time. And obviously we just had to revamp the roster. We knew that, and we didn't have a first round pick, so that hurt. But, you know, we tried to do the best we could with free agency in the draft and do all that stuff. And no matter what team you get a head coaching job for, you're going to have your deficiencies because the jobs are open for reasons, not necessarily because the coaches were terrible.

Obviously, there's some player issues, usually a quarterback. or maybe defense or whatever it might be. So you've got to really do a good job of trying to find the right people to fill those spots. I know I've asked you this before, but I'll just ask it again. How much of the conversation in the interview was about getting Robert to bounce back and be the quarterback that Dan and Bruce really wanted him to be and that Robert wanted to be? Yeah, that was the intent for sure. We did everything we could.

Like I said, that's why I kept Sean. I mean, I was going to keep Sean anyway, but we wanted to try to make it as smooth as possible, and I wanted to keep some of the same things that Robert did, his rookie year, some of those same concepts, and carry him over because he was really good at those things. I wasn't going to force Robert to do what Andy Dalton did as a true dropback guy. I was going to implement some of those because I really think they're good stuff. We had some really good stuff, I think, in a drop-back game, but we also wanted to implement some of those own reads and the play action that they did

and try to make it as smooth as possible for Robert. It was all about Robert, actually. week. Yeah. All right, real quickly on the quarterbacks that'll be available at number two. This is going to be a weekly question until have you spent any time looking at Drake May, Jaden Daniels, or Caleb Williams, other than watching games this season? Just watching games. Just watching games. And my favorite guy right now is Jaden Daniels. I mean, Caleb Williams, I think those ones, but I think Jaden Daniels, I think it'd be hard to pass on a guy like that. Really, the way he throws the ball and runs. I mean, and I know Drake May is a big statuess-type guy,

and he can run too. But Jaden Daniels' athleticism that I've seen on some of these games is ridiculous. I mean, he has like five, six hundred yards of offense at LSU. I mean, it's insane what he does. He has good players, but, you know, if it's close, I always take, I would always err on the side of taking the more athletic guy, and they're both good athletes and both good prospects, but I like them both. Would Jaden Daniels fit well into a Ben Johnson offense?

Oh, I think your offense has to fit around your quarterback skill set. So, you know, I think he would have to do some changes and add some things that Jaden would do. But I think Jaden can do everything Jared Golf can do, right? He can hand off and do the play action, you know. But the element of running for first downs and big plays with his legs are an element that Jared doesn't have. And to have a guy like that is just a huge plus. Yeah. I'm glad you said that because I was talking to somebody the other day.

I think I was a guest on a radio show. And I said, if you watch it. Jaden Daniels, yeah, he ran the football a lot. He was electrifying as a runner, but I could totally envision him in the Jared Gough role just with athleticism, you know, with an offense that runs the football and runs play action and runs boot, you know, and bootleg off of it. And he would be even more dangerous. To me, he'd actually fit that kind of an offense. Do you agree or disagree? Yeah, for sure. The issue is, is Washington can't run the ball right now, personalize, their offensive lines nowhere near what Detroit's off.

I mean, not even close to what Detroit can do on offense, but their offensive line. I mean, they got Frank Ragnow. They got that Sewell guy. They got their tackles, I think. They're one. Those are other tackle. I mean, they're powerful up front.

I mean, they're really, really good. And they have a tight end Samuel Porter. They can block and run routes. They don't have one here. They can do that. Their tight ends aren't very good in-line blockers. Decker. Decker's the other offense. And then, Ragnall, the center is really good.

right now the center and there are other guards that big I can't remember his name but he's really good too so yeah they're they're good and they got Glasgow's their other guard you know from Michigan he's a big strong guy so yeah so they're they're just way way better up front than what Washington is so there has to be some kind of change of the guard I guess on offensive line they got to get some offensive line but more importantly

they got to get a tight end they can block in line and do the things that they want to do run it well otherwise they're going to have to run RPO's and outside the line they got to get some offensive line but they're zones and things of that nature will be a little bit different. All right. Let's talk the games this weekend. Real quickly, back to last weekend. I think maybe the biggest story coming out of last weekend was Buffalo losing at home to Kansas

City and a lot of conversation centered and focused on Josh Allen in particular. And whether or not, you know, him losing and not getting past the Chiefs and is the window closing with Buffalo, et cetera. you think of that game and then what are your thoughts on Josh Allen? Well, it's a great game. You know, and he's playing against the guy that's a little bit better. You know, I mean, Josh is a great quarterback. And I made this point, there's 27 or 28 teams that would trade for Josh Allen right now. Right. They just, it's hard to get over the hump and he reads a great coach and Patrick is a great

quarterback. So it's unfortunate for Josh, but, you know, he did have some plays that I wish he had, he wish he had back, but I would take Josh out on a minute. I think he's a star, a superstar. He just hasn't been able to get over the hump, but he's only 27 years old. He's got plenty of time. You've got 10 or 12 more opportunities to do it, and I think you'll get it done eventually. The thing about having a guy like him is you can change personnel around them,

and your team's still going to be just fine. And look what they did on defense with all the injury that they had. They still were able to get to the playoffs and almost go to the conference championship again. Unfortunately, they just came up a little bit short. I mean, a little bit short. this may be more of a fan, you know, media conversation about games and weekends, but I'm curious as to whether or not you feel there's a team this weekend that has the most pressure on it to win.

Probably Baltimore, you know, Baltimore's come up short quite a bit, and the expectations are through the roof defensively. They're number one in a lot of categories. Lamar is going to be the MVP, and the expectations for them are through the roof. roof. And then San Francisco is probably in the same boat. Both those teams, you're in your number one seed and you have all these expectations, then yeah, the pressure's on you. So both Baltimore and St. Fran, probably has the same amount of pressure on them, in my opinion. Kansas City, no, because they've already wanted a bunch of times. And obviously, Detroit's got

the Cinderella flipper on. Nobody really expects them to be there. So there's less pressure on them, a lot of pressure on the other two. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you on the two teams you mentioned, but I think it's a little bit more on San Francisco. Like, there's been this description of this franchise of Kyle as a head coach of almost genius level and they haven't won a Super Bowl. And losing at home to Detroit, they almost lost last week to Green Bay, I think would absolutely nail down the conversation about them that they just have not gotten the quarterback right.

As great as that roster is, they haven't gotten the quarterback thing. They haven't evaluated it correctly and they haven't gotten it right. Yeah, that could be. Brock's had a hell of a year for a young quarterback now. He didn't look great last week in the first three quarters, but he did put that drive together at the end of the game. And defensively, they should be okay to be able to keep their offense in it so they don't have to score 45 points in it, so that's a good thing.

But, yeah, you're right. I mean, they have struggled at that quarterback evaluation process. Obviously, Trey Lance didn't work out, but they did get lucky with Brock, so hopefully they get it done with Brock and, you know, make the necessary adjustments against Detroit to get it done. All right. Which are the two games are you looking forward to watching the most? I want to see Patrick, and this game, Baltimore, Kansas City is going to be a great game. It's going to be fun.

These guys, you know, the thing about Kansas City, they're going to have to run the ball, but you can't run the ball against Baltimore. The way they ran the ball against Buffalo, and they got some two-and-three tight-end sets, and Buffalo stayed a nickel, and they just overpowered them. Baltimore is not going to stay a nickel. They're going to play base defense or under defense, and bring her safety down, and they're going to bludgeon you. So it's going to be tough going for Pacheco.

Patrick's going to have to make a lot of plays off-scheduled to win this game, and Patrick's going to have to have his best performance of his career, I think, to win. You like Baltimore in this game? I do like Baltimore, but I don't like to play against Patrick or Andy Reid. But I do like Baltimore. I just think their defense is sick right now. They can do everything to you. What about the night kid?

And the weakness. Yeah, go ahead. The weakness is probably the corners, if Humphrey doesn't play, you can go after Derby, but it's hard to get the ball down the field, and the weakness for Kansas City is a receiving core. You know,

so Rice is a good player, obviously he's proved to be a number one, but they're going to have to utilize Kelsey and either Clyde Edwards out of backfield or McKinnon if he plays or Pacheco out of the backfield in the passing games. Valdez-Ccalley's got to make a play

or Watson, somebody else has got to step up and make a play for them to have a chance. Lions 49ers. Yeah, I think the biggest thing in this game is we've got to see Debo if he plays or not. If Debo doesn't play, I think the Lions can pull it's upset off.

Debo is a huge presence for that football team. Even if he only catches three or four balls, his presence, his toughness, his ability to run after the catch, his ability to block his toughness that he brings to that football team is just huge for them. And if he doesn't play, it'll hurt. But if he does play, I think,

St. Fran can pull it off. The conversation, Jay, about the 49ers is an interesting one because you've just talked about Debo Samuel and his importance to them winning. He's been hurt. Kittles gotten hurt. McCaffrey's been hurt. Trent Williams is 35 years old. It's going to be 36 next year. I'm not saying that they're not going to have an opportunity to be a really good team next year or the year after. but this is, you know, against Detroit at home, a team that's really not been there, they better get back to the Super Bowl this go-round. I mean, it's got to happen for them sooner rather than later. Yeah, for sure.

You can make that argument for everybody because you can't, it's hard to keep your roster intact, especially if you're good. Players want more money, coaches want more money. You know, everybody starts to exit the building. The good players get bigger contracts at other teams, and it's hard to keep a team to keep a team to. together. And then you get a little bit older, like you mentioned, with some of those key players. So, yeah, this is a huge year for San Francisco, a huge year for Baltimore as well.

All right. So you like Baltimore to win. You like the 49ers if Debo plays and he's healthy. If not, you like Detroit. Let's get to your lock of the week. You won it last week with Kansas City, plus the points. You actually loved him as a money line pick. What's your championship game weekend, lock of the week? San Fran, I think. I think, you know, I said even if, I think even if doesn't play. I just think San Fran's offensive line is going to overpower Detroit a little bit. I think McCaffrey has a huge day. And Kyle will realize that Purdy's struggling a little bit with his confidence maybe, and he's going to feed McCaffrey. He has to make sure, Kyle has to make sure he makes this game about his team and not about how tricky and creative he can be.

Hand the ball off to McCaffrey and bludgeon the Detroit Lion offense and keep the Jared golf on the sidelines while McCaffrey runs to the left side, right behind my guy, laying the seven. Now, this is up to seven and a half right now in a lot of spots, but I still see some seven. So I'm going to give you San Francisco minus seven. By the way, I thought Detroit, I thought Tampa should have run the ball a lot more last week. I think, I know White was banged up here and there, but I thought both backs, he and Edmonds were capable of bludgeoning Detroit a little bit more than they decided to do it. I was surprised that they let Baker throw it as much as he did. he did well, but I thought they could have run the ball against Detroit last week. Yeah, I think so.

I think the weakness of Detroit is their ability to stop the run. And that's what the strength of San Francisco's offense is. People don't realize how good San Fran can run the ball, not just with McCaffrey, but how good these receivers are at blocking. Juan Jennings was maybe the best run-blocking wide receiver in the league that I've seen. I know we have Michael Clayton back in Tampa Bay, and Heinz Ward was really good at it, and Steve Smith was a great run blocking.

Ryan Grant. Yeah, Ryan Grant was forced to that role because I didn't have anybody else that would do it. Poor guy. You loved Ryan Grant digging out those safeties. I remember that. I didn't have a choice. The only guy we had it would do it.

He was willing to do it, thank God. Because, you know, I can remember a walk through one time. We had a play where we had a motion of receiver in and blocked the safety, and Deshawn did it and walked through. He came back to me. He goes, hey, Groot. That's not in the game plan. I go, no, we'll put Ryan Green in for that one, buddy.

All right, go put a few and enjoy the day, and I'll talk to you next week. All right, thanks, Kevin. Jay Gruden, everybody. San Francisco, minus seven, is his lock of the week. 11 and 6 against the spread on this podcast all year long. If you're into premier high-line vehicles, exotic vehicles, unique spec vehicles, there's a new dealership in town that I want to tell you about. It's Magdon Motors.

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That's Magden, M-A-G-D-E-N-Moters.com. Up next, the smell test to finish up the show, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. The smell test brought to you by, as always, MyBooky, go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and you'll get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. you've got to use my promo code exactly as I just described, Kevin D.C.

And then you'll get the cash bonus on your initial deposit. My bookie's got the fairest point spreads, the fairest pricing, all of the prop bets that you would be interested in in the championship game doubleheader on Sunday. Just go to my bookie.orgie.org, use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., and they'll take good care of you. Even if you've got a place for these games, you know, there are three and a halves and fours out there on the Baltimore game, sevens and seven a half, seven and a halfs on the San Francisco Detroit game. You want to get the best number for the side that you're going to play. Use my bookie for the free cash. You know, sign up this weekend, take the free cash, and then have it as a place where you can compare to the place you have currently.

You might get a better number. You might get a better price. on the number. MyBooky.ag promo code, Kevin, DC. Three and three in the postseason so far. Still seven games above 500 for the year. The two games on Sunday offer up, you know, I think obvious opportunities on the totals. And then up until just a few hours ago, I didn't think there would be a side that would make the smell test, but that changed. It looks like the public money on Detroit has gone up here recently, and the sharp money has definitely come in on the 49ers. So let me just start with Baltimore, Kansas City, the first game of the day.

The action pretty much is split. There's a slight lean on the Ravens public-wise. They perceive the number to be a little bit short at three and a half four, but not enough for me to give out a side in that game. As I mentioned in the open, I do like Baltimore to win the game and to win the game and cover, but not from a smell test perspective. The totals at 44 and a half, and despite both of these teams being outstanding defensive teams, in fact, the best scoring defense and the second best scoring defense so far this year,

the public's playing the over. They love overs in stand-alone games, always. You know, Monday nights, Sunday nights, Thursday nights, you'll see the public generally play the over. like over 44.5 in this one, by a wide margin, I'll go under the 44.5 in the Baltimore, Kansas City game. And then in the second game, there's definitely now a public play on Detroit more than there is on San Francisco. And there is sharp money on the 49ers. And that's bumped that line up to 7.5. I'll take the Niners by the half point and play them minus 7. Same thing with this game as far as the total is concerned.

51 and a half is the number. The public's hammering the over in this game, so I'll take under 51.5. By the way, the Niners, they haven't covered at home in their last six games, including the playoff game against Green Bay. So a little bit of do theory that they're going to get it done against the number is a favorite at home.

Yeah, six straight home against. the spread losses for the 49ers as good as they've been. They are, by the way, nine and nine against the number all year long. The Ravens are 12 and 6 against the number this year. So, under Baltimore, Kansas City, 44 and a half, the Niners minus seven and the under in the Niners Detroit game, 51 and a half. Those of the smell test plays. Enjoy.

Of course, as always, for entertainment purposes only. It won't be for entertainment purposes only for me. And it probably won't for you either. Let's get some wins this weekend back on Monday. Enjoy the games. If you're just joining us, here's the game. Tied at 19. Six seconds to go.

Vanderjad has it blocked. Hicked up by Taylor. Penalty flag on the play and Taylor's still going. Troy Vincent blocked it. Dressing the face mask, kicking team, number 63. 15-yard run. The game will be extended by one untimed down. First down. 47-yard try to win it for the Redskins.

Redskins win.