The Kevin Sheehan Show - Redskin Fans: Welcome Back When Ready

Episode Date: May 18, 2020

Kevin was joined by JP Finlay on the show today. They talked Dunbar, Lattimer, Haskins, and their limited knowledge of exclusive golf venues like Seminole. Kevin talked about how good Dwayne Haskins looks and the excitement beginning to build towards his 2020 season. Kevin then spent time talking about his belief that the hundreds of thousands of Redskin fans that have stopped attending and watching games in recent years are welcome back as fans whenever they are ready, no questions asked. "The Last Dance" and "Basketball County" also recapped. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I'm here. J.P. Finley from NBC Sports Washington and the Redskins Talk podcast is going to join me on the show right up top here today as well. Aaron's at home. he'll be producing it. Tommy tomorrow. Coolly was going to join me today, but he didn't watch the last dance, which is what we were going to spend a lot of time talking about. I'll talk about that a little bit later on in the program here. But J.P. Finley is going to be with us right now. And Cooley will be with us on Wednesday, by the way. And you had some interesting stuff about Dwayne Haskins from over the weekend, which I want to get to. I want to talk about the Quentin Dunbar stuff, which I thought was an amazing statement from the attorney. But, you know, let's

Let's start with a live sporting event. I saw you tweeting about it yesterday. I watched some of it as well, and that was the charity match between Rory and Dustin against Matthew Wolfe and who is his partner? And Ricky Fowler. I just blank for a second. From a very famous golf course, one of the top, you know, typically. year in and year out, Seminoles ranked among the top 10, top 15 courses in the world, but because it's so exclusive, people like you and I never have a chance to play it.

I don't know, maybe you've played it before I haven't. I'm going to ask if you've played it. I have not played it. I have not played it. But it's one of those that we've never really gotten a chance to see. And to me, that was the attraction yesterday was the golf course itself on the Florida coastline. but overall, what did you think of the broadcast and were you into it? I was. I don't know how into it I would have been if we had been seeing a lot of sports lately, because it wasn't that compelling. No.

But I was very into it. I'm a Rory Mark. He's my favorite golfer. I'm a huge fan. I've been really since he like came around. So I was into it no matter what, but I was, like, I don't know that that would have brought in a casual fan because I'm into that regardless. But, dude, I had NASCAR on, too, just because it was on. And I'm not the biggest NASCAR guy, but it was something to watch and there hasn't been anything. But seeing Seminole made it that much cooler, I didn't realize, I mean, I knew it was on the water, but I didn't realize it was, like, on the water like that. I didn't either. I didn't realize that either. Not every hole. Yeah, not every hole was on the water. Like, CJ and I were talking about it this morning.

Like if you played Kea with the ocean course, you know, you think of it as an ocean course, but the truth is there are only a few holes that run parallel with the actual coastline. But I didn't realize it was that sort of course either. especially, I mean, just kind of considering the real estate, Charleston's beautiful, and Kia was, what, 30, 40 minutes south of that, and probably, you know, you can get some oceanfront land versus South Florida, you know, a half hour north of West Palm to own that land on the water. You've got to be pretty darn pricey. So I just, you know, you kind of, the exclusivity of Seminole starts to make sense when you see the location and kind of that turquoise water and the white sand. I thought it was pretty cool. And I think they raised a ton of money.

Five million bucks is a legitimate haul. I think it was funny. One of the guys by podcast, Pete Haley, is a huge Ricky Fowler fan, and he and I have a bet every year. Rory versus Ricky in money, on the money list at the end of the year. And I thought it was very telling of how that bet has gone over the years when on the 19th hole Ricky hits his into the woods

and Rory just beats the other guy to win the whole thing. I just thought that was kind of fun. I turned it on pretty much at the beginning. Every once in a while I flip back and forth, but to be honest with you, it was boring to me. And I'm wondering what, look, this was not a real competition. You know, in early June when the tour returns to Fort Worth

and we get golf in real tournaments in four rounds every weekend. I think I'm going to be into that, and I don't think the lack of spectators is going to be a deterrent for me. What was really odd about the watch yesterday was to see them all carry their own bags, which was... And wearing shorts. And wearing shorts. But the carrying their own bags was even...

When's the last time we ever saw professional golfers carry their own bags? That's not going to happen when the tour resumes in early June. I think DJ put his bag on backwards coming up off the first week. I don't think those guys are very familiar with that at this stage of their career. They haven't done it in for years. Because let's be honest, if they're playing a friendly practice round or a personal round, they're in carts. They're not even hoffing it.

But the, God, man, it did nothing for me yesterday. And I'm wondering what next weekend is. is going to be with Peyton and Tiger against Brady and Mickelson, you know, at medalist. And I'm hoping that when we start to watch live sports without spectators, it isn't so jarring that it actually isn't nearly as interesting. I don't think we're going to know until we watch it. I don't think the spectators impacted Sunday's action. I think that, I think they should have done it as a match instead of skins.

I get why they did it as skin so that they had interest in it the whole time. But match play is way more compelling. I also think, and I'm not trying to take a shot at a guy who's wildly successful, but like, Dustin Johnson is just such a dud. There's just nothing there. Nothing there. Nothing. And he seemed pretty disinterested anyway.

And I think, and I don't know kind of how it got set up. I think if it was Baller and Justin Tons. Thomas, who's a bigger player and has a good personality and seems pretty funny. I think that could have helped it. But, I mean, regardless, I thought it was cool. I think the Tiger and Phil, I mean, you have such, just Tiger Woods, the level of stardom goes up. I'm sorry, Kat, on this home, obviously.

Everybody understands, no worries. I have very little children. The level of stardom goes up so much just by having Tiger. and then Brady and Peyton, I think Peyton being kind of a TV guy now will be kind of hamming it up. I think that will be excellent to watch.

I think that's going to be, I mean, I plan my whole day, how dumb I am, I guess. I really planned my day yesterday around that match, and I did a ton of stuff in the morning so that I could lock in four to six watching this thing.

And by 5 o'clock, I was playing with my daughter because it just wasn't, it wasn't enthralling enough to say no to two little girls, and they get my wife mad at me. So I'll get on the bounce out. So what's the most exclusive golf course you've ever played? Shinnock or Oakmont. Yeah, that's right. You went up and played Shinnock with Danny, right? The Giants weekend? It was a Saturday

So Danny couldn't play It was Jay Blunt Who's a huge skin fan Shinnickok member And he took it out there It was That plays

It's pretty wild Man But Ocomont It's interesting The two of those I think are really comparable In

kind of the history And like aura The clubhouses Are very very different Oakmont is Oakmont is Ockmont's a real country club, so it's like families and stuff, whereas Shinnecock, I think it's just a golf club.

But they're both crazy cool. What's your one feed? I can only imagine. You know, I've never played Pine Valley, which virtually, I mean, a lot, I know a lot of people that have. And that's consistently, you know, right. Yeah, that's like top five. It's been number one, a bunch of times, golf digest. I've played, I've played Mearfield. I've played which was incredible and by the way Urban Meyer

was in the clubhouse when we came back Is it? Is it in the field private? Yes, but there's a bunch of out of town members and a friend of mine who's an out of town member

took a bunch of us there. The Whisper Rock actually out in Arizona in Scottsdale is probably one of those It's like really hard It's hard to find, right?

Well, I don't know that it's That may be true. I don't, you know, we drove there. I mean, all those Scottsdale courses, you know, it's like desert, desert, then all of a sudden you make a turn and it's like, oh, here we are. But Whisper Rock was a lot of the West Coast athletes are all members. Like Seminoles, a big-time athlete membership club, I think.

I think that's true. I could be wrong about that. But like, I played, my coolest story was Indian Creek in Miami. Yeah. We played that, and at the turn we went in to get a bite to heat, and Dan Marino and Steve Ross were sitting there. Like they were just to force them either ahead of us or they had just gotten done or whatever. And that was pretty neat.

I mean, it's in Miami. It's a pretty cool course. Just for those that are listening, just to understand that JP and I are both public school kids, okay? Right. And we didn't grow up privileged, nor are we now, but we both love golf and have had, really more so because of media than anything else, these opportunities. Yeah. My golf hookup are all Redkin fans that are like, hey, man, if you make it here, I'd love to take you out.

At least a half dozen of them have been sort of fans of the show over the years. The Whisper Rock, honestly, in terms of desert courses, was one of the most beautiful, spectacular properties I've ever been on. I've never seen a practice facility like this. We actually, Sands hooked it up, and he hooked it up with a guy that's on the tour, Colton Nost. You probably know the name of your. And this guy could not have been nicer. He was injured at the time, and we were out there for a few days.

I was out there with two of my three boys who were on spring break at the time, and my father, who at 81 years old, JP is still like a 10 handicap. It was always single digit forever, still a 10 handicap. Nost, who was injured, didn't play, but he hosted us. We walk into the clubhouse. The first person we see is John Elway. Then we walk by Jerry Rice. But anyway, to make a long story short, you'll like this.

And I don't think I've told this story before. But we played, I took my father. It was my father, me, one of Colt, friends and another friend of his, and that gentleman's name was Mike Madano. Mike Madano, for those non... The hockey player? Yeah, the not, is the all-time American-born leading scorer in the NHL. Great dude, he played the round with us.

By the way, he hit a three-wood like 3.30. Like, I'm not even sure he took his driver out. But it was, you know, he was excellent. He was probably a three or a four. The other dude that was out there was like a 10. I'm a 15. My father's got great short game, but he can't hit it as far anymore. But it was a phenomenal day.

They couldn't have been nicer. And actually, Madonna was a great guy. But that place was spectacular. Muirfield was great. I mean, I haven't played those places that have other than the place here several times, you know, off a River Road. I haven't played the place here. Oh, you haven't? I've never been out there, yeah. Well, I, I like that we're not even naming it. Well, I mean, I don't even know what the, what the sort of

protocol is there, because one of my best, very best friends is an out-of-town member, and I grew up from that place, you know, within two miles of that place, had never seen it inside until about five years ago when he became an out-of-town member, and I've played it, I don't know, many times over the last five years, and it is gorgeous. But, you know what, to Seminil's exclusivity, I was listening to Sands kind of previewing the match on Cornizers' podcast. Yeah. And Sands, whose job is in golf and probably can, I mean, that's a dude that,

is that a gustle a week and year every year, every day? I mean, that guy's been everywhere. He said he had never been to Seminole. And he was really excited just to go see it himself. Well, yeah. I thought that that was a jaw drover for me. Does he lives in Florida? Well, they have a very,

CJ was telling me that they're pro member, their one-day pro member, which apparently follows the Honda Classic, like it's that week, that pros are desperate. Like professional golfers, desperate to get invited to the pro member just to play the course.

I think this is, like, we're not going to go much longer in this conversation, people, but bear with us. Because I think... We're going deep dive here. Yeah, well, I think it's fascinating in the world of golf.

of you are golf fans and some of you really know this, but there are places where tour events aren't played. Like most people think, well, and by the way, Augusta is different. Augusta is truly as exclusive as any place on the planet. But after that, like where these tour events are played and a lot of times where major championships are played, you know, they're played at exclusive places, but not with the number of members that, like Seminole has like maybe 300 members, you know, and there are other places in Florida and throughout the country. I mean, you played... You said Pine Valley.

Pine Valley, yeah. In Chicago, like, all the stuff gets played. Chicago Country Club, like, the elite, they're all elites, don't get me wrong, but they don't play tournament stops in Chicago Country Club, I don't think. There's always played with that. And they don't play them at Cyprus in Monterey. They don't play it at the National, which isn't that right near? You know how the National has that like iconic windmill?

Yeah. You know, the Dutch 300, 400 years ago? You see that when you're like hitting your second or third. I don't remember what hole it is, but you see that from Shinnecock. I think there's a hole where the fairways are kind of side by side where like you're going, I want to say it's like the fourth or fifth hole and you're going out and nationals are like coming in and there's like a little chain link fence separating. I've heard it spectacular.

Shit, he was unbelievable, so I can only imagine this international. While we're doing this, did CJ have a 75 last week? Did I hear that? He shut 77 somewhere. He's totally capable. Like, he's one of those dudes. He's capable of 75 or 95, you know, literally in back-to-back days, too. I mean, my last two rounds, I probably had like a 100 and an 80s.

I know. I know the feeling. Yeah. Kinlock's another one that I know you've played, and we've had a chance to play a lot. Several Redskin fans. I love that place. That place is spectacular to Denner Richel.

I actually just went down there. I've been down there in the last month. My guy Chuck Honey took me out. It was spectacular. Perfect condition. Beautiful, beautiful place with the nicest people there, too. All right, that's enough of our. This is where JP and I, you know, every once in a while,

barely, barely get invited to a place where you've got to be a little bit more highbrow. But we are not. By the way, Cooley and I have played Kenlock together, I don't know, two or three times maybe. And, you know, one of those times, I probably shouldn't even tell the story, but it was hot as, it was hot as shit. We started drinking on the front nine, and we got to the back nine. And because it was a combination, it was one of those days where the combination of the heat and the alcohol in the long day, which had started for us at, you know, 5 a.m. or whatever, just sort of melted down into this back nine of where he starts, you know, basically referring

to Kinloch as Kinloch to members. He knows how to pronounce it, but he gets completely out of control. It was funny, and everybody, yeah, it's Chris Cooney. That's really funny. But by the way, it's pronounced Kinloch, not Kinloch. If it was you and I saying Kinloch, that's out. Yeah, we're out. That would have been our final round. But the people down there are so nice, and that place is incredible. I mean, not a blade of grass out of place at that place. All right, enough of that. That was the most fun had in a while. Well, you know, I mean, I saw you tweeting about the golf event.

I just couldn't make it through it. And I am wondering what it's going to be like when sports come back. They're going to come back here, and hopefully sooner rather than less. later. I'm not going to get into, I've spent time on my feelings on this. I think we've got to get back to work and get back to some sense of normalcy. But if nobody's in the crowd, it's going to be odd. It's going to be strange for the players. Did you watch any of the NASCAR? I did. I flipped it on. The NASCAR looked so weird with nobody in the stand. It seemed way more jarring to me than the golf is. Well, that's because the golf we see on a weekend, you know,

couple of guys on a hole where there are very few spectators. That's not unusual. But a basketball game or a football game or a baseball game empty is going to be truly weird because these team sports in particular, you know, the crowd is involved and they're influential. And it's going to be weird. I mean, I'd rather have it without spectators than not have it at all, clearly, especially when we get to football season. But I think it's going to be weird. Oh, for sure. Well, I don't know if you saw Eric Prisbill, who once wrote a damning story about Gary Williams and probably had you as mad as it did me many years ago in the Washington Post. But he had a story this morning for a sports business journal, I think.

I think that's where it was, kind of talking about how close baseball is or isn't to getting back. And unless the players are going to kind of waive and prorated salaries, baseball makes 40% the number of the story is 39% of their revenues at the game people actually coming to the game buying hot dogs

buying beers you can't take out 40% of your income and then they'll pay out the same amount the math won't work so like I feel like

this is a baseball moment that reminds me of 1994 where the side they're just so far drawn and the baseball players union has always been the strongest in sports I think

and I was very optimistic about baseball for the 4th of July and reading that thing today, I don't know how it happens unless the players have to be willing to radically change what seems to be a very hard-line stand. This is going to be a big moment. I talked about this last week. I totally agree with you. And Mark Tashara actually had a lot of comments on this last week, early last week, or may have been the late the week before.

But if you're part of the Major League Baseball Players Association and if you're a player in the league right now and you hold out, it's going to be perceived as all-time greedy. You know, you've got people being furloughed. You've got people laid off. You've got an unemployment percentage that's going to climb to depression levels. And this is, you know, this is important, in our country that sports return.

You know, it's certainly a diversion that people want and need and a revenue split. They're still projecting, now I did not read Prismal's story, but they're still projecting that they could generate close to half the revenue that they would have generated in a normal season. So in the $4 to $5 billion range, and if the players aren't willing to, you know, roll the dice with the owners in this short sprint of a season, They're going to pay dearly, I think, in the court of public opinion. Now, the owners, I understand people think...

It's like 94 to me. Yeah. Baseball was so screwed after that 94 strike that it took, for better or worse, it took the McGuire's social home run thing to get it back in kind of people's good graces. Yeah. I don't know how this should be a long conversation. But, you know, the other thing, too, just on this subject is that, if leagues are saying that a positive test could derail a team or derail the team,

then it'll never start back up again. Until there's discussion, and there was some discussion last week in the NBA about this, that there's a plan to move forward despite a positive test. Until you get that, you got no chance, because of course somebody's going to test positive. There's no chance that sports return in social distancing atmospheres with no spectators and have no positive coronavirus tests. Somebody's going to test positive, and it can't shut down that team or the league. If it can, then there's no sense in coming back.

They've got to have a plan to deal with that. Yeah, I agree. I don't know. I don't like closing much of my – because this thing has become totally political, even though it shouldn't. It's a disease. It's not a political thing. It's a disease, the wrong word.

It's a virus. But I think, you know, the goal was to flatten the curve. At some point, people got to be able to go try in a new fashion, but try to get back out there. And I think for team sports, you know, I'm not a big UFC guy, but USC had, I think, a fighter or a trainer test positive. That fighter and trainer got removed, and they were still able to do everything else. Right.

I think that's kind of, the goal is zero, and nothing's going to happen until there's a vaccine or a cure, which is probably a year away. The goal, I don't think the goal can be zero. Yeah, it can't be. I'm with you. It sounds like we're on the same page. I mean, you know, flatten the curve, flatten the curve, flatten the curve, let's make sure that our health care system isn't overwhelmed.

Okay, we've done that. Now let's, you know, we got to get back here. Well, you've been, I feel like you've actually done a really good job of sticking to everything, just in our non-on-air conversation. Well, I mean, I've had a house full of people, which, you know, basically went against what the recommendations were, and I've been going to work. You know, and yes, I mean, technically as media members were considered to be essential, but I could have created a studio from my own home.

Thank God I didn't. This has been a refuge for me to get out of my home. But you know, I mean, the studio that I'm in is close. If I could go to work, I'd go to work, sir. Yeah, I know. I mean, I... You hear what's going on here? I can only imagine, and I've said this to you and Cooley and other friends of mine that have younger kids.

I think you guys have had the biggest challenge by far. Let's get to the Redskins with J.P. Finley, who's joining us here. First of all, what did you make of the Quentin Dunbar stuff? And the statement from the attorney, you know, which I actually read, I forget where I read this, the statement from the attorney, which was printed and put out in text form, he spelled Quentin Dunbar's name incorrectly, both the first name and the last name. Dunbar is spelled as Dubar. And he wrote, today our client, Quentin Dubar, voluntarily surrendered at the Broward County Jail pursuant to a bogus arrest warrant based solely on uncorroborated witness statements that have since been recanted.

As I write this, an innocent man sits in jail facing charges that hold no water. His career and reputation have been put in jeopardy as a result of an overzealous Miramar Police Department that was so excited about arresting a pro football player that they tweeted out their celebrating. and even tagged his employer, hashtag the Seahawks, in their virtual touchdown dance, which is him saying that. I mean, we can think what we want about Quentin Dunbar in the way he handled the last few months, but Ivan said this on the podcast on Friday.

I was surprised by this. It seemed a bit out of character for him. Yeah. You have to know Quentin a little bit. He's a really good, nice young man. I know he's from really, really tough. circumstances down in Miami, and I can't imagine a scenario like this, like a, it's something that he had never seen before growing up. But, you know, to hear him do it is jarring.

I hadn't seen or heard that lawyer statement. It's pretty, if I'm going to have a lawyer, on one of the smell things, right? But I will say this, I was, I don't want to say stunned, because I'm not trying to exaggerate, but I was really, really surprised the way that police department was tweeting all this news out. And I don't follow many police departments on Twitter. In fact, I don't think I follow any. But I found it just super odd. And maybe that's normal.

But we talked about that on my podcast because I was like really kind of thrown aback by that. I just didn't, I don't know. I hope just because I know them, if nothing else, I just hope it is, it doesn't sound like it is. It doesn't sound like my hope, my, my, My realistic hope here is that Quentin didn't have a gun, and he was with these other dudes that did some dumb stuff. And that, you know, on the level makes it make, he's a part of doing dumb stuff.

But it's different if he's just kind of there and not holding a gun, whereas it sounds like the giant guy seems like he was kind of striving to force on the line. I mean, who knows, man. It's one of these things where the stories are going to be really hard to know what happened and who to believe. use. It's stuff's already getting recanted. I can only imagine that in another couple days there'll be nothing official. So, yeah. My thought, I said this, I think knowing how Quentin grew up a little bit, I, whatever happened, I would be confident that he never thought the cops would get called, that this

would be handled kind of differently. Right. All right, let's get to specific redskinned. related news because Quentin Dunbar doesn't play for the team anymore. And then everybody's doing a victory laugh about, oh, Ron knows better, and then Corey Latimer goes and then Corey Latimer, if you guys missed this, got arrested over the weekend. It's funny because I, the... You can read that lawyer's. That's the heck of a picture. I did. I read that earlier, and I'm looking for it right now because I think I closed the page.

But I also went and read, yeah, Cody Latimer got arrested, faces assault and weapons charges following an incident in Colorado. Cody Latimer, for those unfamiliar, he was a Redskins free agent acquisition here in the offseason played with the Giants last year. Deputies responded to a call about an altercation. Apparently there were gunshots. No one was injured with the gunfire.

He was held on $25,000 bond. And the attorney, the attorney's statement was, quote, there's an entire backstory to this situation that constitutes one of the most highly provocative situations you can imagine. Please withhold judgment until all the facts of what took place that night are known. I actually went and read a little bit about Cody Latimer because I really don't know much. And there's something that happened back at the end of May 2016. I don't know if you read about this. But at the end of 2016, he was arrested in Colorado.

for an assault in the second degree. I'm sorry, let me back up. Latimer was arrested for an outstanding traffic ticket. I'm sorry, at the end of May, at the end of May 2016, while police were investigating his complaint that he was a victim of domestic violence at the hands of his girlfriend. So that was something that happened four years ago.

So who knows? We'll see. All right. The lawyer statement made me think of Jackie Child, just like the person, for mocketing by that. Yeah. The reaction from Redskin fans about Dunbar

that I found kind of crazy is that there's like this victory lap thing, and I don't think that should be the case in any situation. No, whatever. I think I said, I said, you know, because I was, I didn't like that they only got a fifth. And, you know, after the fact, I said, well, you know,

at least they got something. It didn't happen beforehand. I mean, if you're a fan of the team, you're glad that, I mean, honestly, you can say on one, hand, I hope he's innocent and rooting for the best for him. And at the same time, say, thankfully they dealt him for something because they wouldn't get anything for him now. And I think it's important to point out that Ron, nobody ever would have expected this scenario, but Ron did make a judgment call on what he thought. And he hasn't had a quote

on this on the record about kind of the attitude of Quentin and his agent. And it just, it wasn't something Ron wanted to deal with. So I think there is some, you can draw a corollary there. Well, he was running, he went public with his gripes. You know, that was probably the wrong thing to do. All right. And personally, he went public to me, and then he tried to recant it, which part of the exactly.

Well, he went public with you, then recanted it with Doc, and then went public again. Like, you know, so he was all over the place. All right. Tell everybody about the slim-down version of Dwayne Haskins. Yeah, so it's been kind of interesting. Just on Instagram and Twitter and stuff, I followed Wayne. And I talked to him last week. We did an interview for my podcast, and you can just see that he looked trim.

I mean, his face looked thinner all around. So there was a picture out that quoted, that had a picture of him, and then he quote tweeted it, and it said 220. So last year, I mean, all I did was look up, what he was listed at last year was 231. So that's 11 pounds lost there, I mean, just on the surface. And then I tweeted out because Kime, last fall somewhere had a story that Dwayne had trimmed his body fat by 4%. So I sent out a tweet that was like Dwayne Haskins had lost, you know, had lost 11 pounds, trimmed 4% body fat and just turned 23. Just because, you know, clearly he's having a focused off season.

We'll see what happens out of that. But it's obvious to me that that's where he's. that. And he then quote tweeted me and said 7%. So he's actually dropped 7% by that, not just 4%. I think it's pretty interesting. I mean, the guy, if you want a guy

to work really hard, he's doing it. Yeah. And, you know, I was having this conversation earlier with Kime on radio. And you know, Kime made the point. He's like, you know, people, you know, RG3 used to tweet out all the workout videos and then

people would respond by saying, hey, get into the film room and study film just as much as you're working out. But there's a big difference, right? Number one, Dwayne actually needed to lose some of that, you know, RG3, I don't know if he ever had more than, you know, six, four percent body fat to begin with. But I noticed it just as a fan of football last year in the preseason. And I remember saying he looks slimmer and more mobile to me. And then Kime had that story early in the season about how he had lost weight and body fat, and he's continuing to work on that. So good for him. I mean, ultimately, whatever happens on the field is how we'll judge him. But, you know, he is not a statue. We saw that last year. He's got to extend the playability. He's got more mobility than I

think anybody thought. And if he's quicker and more mobile, it's only going to help him. And by the way, what else can he be doing right now but working out and it's good to know that he's doing it? Yeah. Yeah, I think Dwayne's having a good offseason. As much as anybody can have a good offseason in this kind of situation where you're not with your teammates or anything. I think he really is. I think I wrote a story this morning. It all depends because you can stack up all the things to count against Dwayne.

And it's a fourth offensive coordinator in three years. you got a very uncertain left side of the offensive line. You only have one receiver that I think people that are a defensive is considered a real threat. You got no tight end. There's a lot to look at that man that doesn't chance. But the other side of it is, if you look at just his progression last year, I mean, you can pick your stat.

But his QB rating, his last two starts was over 130, whereas, you know, the first two games he got in when he played. against the Giants and against the Vikings, and he was just terrible. I mean, he showed real improvement last year, and now he's got an NFL off season where he's getting in shape. You know, it seems like he's comfortable with the coaching staff, and the coaching staff is comfortable with him. I think it positioned itself for a very, very interesting watch this fall.

I agree. His last six quarters, and I talked about this last week, His last six quarters, 394 yards, four touchdowns, no picks, two sacks, like a 73% completion percentage. He had progressed to the point where he really was playing, you know, quarterback at a high level. And let's not forget, Philadelphia was a good defensive football team that they played. You know, and he was moving the football against them. And he was incredible before he got hurt against the Giants. And, you know, and he was carrying an offense that had very little. like 11 for 11 against the Giants?

I mean, he was 12 for 15 before he went out. I forget if it was 11 for 11, but you might be right. But here's the other thing, too. He didn't have anything really around him except for McLaurin, you know? So I'm with you. You know, the social media thing bothers a lot of people, and I understand that. I am not going to, you know, argue with people who say that's a red flag. And, you know, we saw the other day, he's got this thing now, don't be a fan later.

Hashtag, don't be a fan later. We've seen that a few times. I'm ignoring it. I'm not following him on Twitter. Of course, everybody sends this shit to me all the time. But ultimately, you know, I would feel differently if I thought he sucked last year. I think I would feel differently. But he didn't suck.

Or he wasn't working hard now. Yeah, exactly. I think with the social media stuff, some of it, I think, hang on this, I think if there wasn't, if we hadn't just gone through the RG3 stuff, social media and hashtags and everything. I think people would look at it a lot different. And then, you know, the workout videos, I know people get upset about that,

but go on Instagram, dude. Everybody's Instagram story is workout video. I think it's because everybody's locked it inside. I don't know, but that is, I mean, people I've worked with, people I'm friends with. Everybody does that. Where's yours? I posted one yesterday, dude.

I did a full hour. I did 20 miles yesterday on the bike. Did you really? Good for you. JP, see you. Thanks. All right. See you, man. No problem. Thanks to J.P. Finley. I always enjoy catching up with J.P. Follow him on Twitter at J.P. Finley NBCS. Listen to his D.C. Redskins Talk podcast, which you can get anywhere. J.P. had his daughters there. Was not a distraction for me. I hope it wasn't for you.

These are the times we're living in. And I just appreciate him making himself available every once in a while to talk about a lot of things. things. And today we didn't spend as much time as we usually do on just the Redskins. And we sort of got sidetracked there. But JP's a great dude. Good to catch up with him. We've got a new advertiser. I want to tell you about Roman. If you were to guess on average how many days people in the U.S. have to wait to see a doctor? What would you say? A week maybe? Actually, on average, people have to wait around 29 days to see a doctor in major U.S. cities. Basically a month. If you're dealing with a condition like erectile dysfunction, you want treatment ASAP. That's why our friends at Roman have spent years building a digital platform that can connect you with a doctor licensed into your state, all from the comfort of your home.

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There was like a doughy kind of aspect to his body build. And one of the comparables for Dwayne coming out was, you know, best case comp was Ben Rothlessberger. I think we saw last year his style on that. putting him in the Ben Rathesberger category. That his style is different than Ben Rathesberger. Yes, he's big and imposing and strong in the pocket. But he's really able to create. I mean, we saw him run last year on occasion and look really mobile.

You know, one of the first big plays he made last year was in that giant game. If you go back to that giant game when he came in right before the end of the first half, And he's in that, I think it was the first drive. I think it was the first drive when he came in. He's got a big run down to the goal line, you know, that set up that Redskins field goal right before the half. It was, I'm going to pull it up right now. It was a 14-yard run on second and nine at the Giant 15. He actually had a chance to score on it.

And then he missed, you know, a throw to sprinkle. and then Peterson got stopped on second goal, and then he threw incomplete to Vernon Davis, and they kicked the field goal. And then the second half, he had the three interceptions in the second half, which was a disaster. But that first drive that he came in, if you recall, in that first half against the Giants,

and they had decent field position, he came in after a turnover, he got him down to the one-yard line with a big-time scramble, and I remember thinking to myself in the moment, he is much more mobile than we think, and I think we saw signs of it against Cincinnati and Cleveland in particular in the preseason. Dwayne Haskins, you know, put all of the stuff that bothers you that has nothing to do with the performance on the field.

Put it aside a moment. He is 6-4-65, 220 pounds, now down from 231, which he was listed at, body fat is he's losing body fat because he is working out. We saw a guy last year at the very least, even if you didn't like him, even if you didn't like his performance, unless you were a blind, you saw a guy on the field who was very competitive, played with a sense of urgency with the game on the line when you go back to the games against Detroit and the games against Philly

at the end in particular. And again, and I mention this to JP, his final six quarters of football essentially, he completed 31 of 43 for 394 yards, four touchdowns, 73% completion percentage. You know, his passer rating was in the 130s that he had. His QBR was in the high 70s, low 80s. This was a guy that played high-level football in his last six quarters of football.

He really did. You know, the Philadelphia game, by the way, had some clutch drives in it. They were there with Philly. I'm glad they didn't win the game. But, you know, in that second half, they fall behind 17, 14. He engineers a 10-place 75-yard drive. They fall behind 24-21. He engineers another drive that ends up in field goal range.

These were two, these were six quarters of high-level football from Dwayne Haskins down the stretch of the season. I don't give a shit at this point. I probably would have felt differently a couple of years ago. I don't give a shit about his social media. Yes, I'm paying attention not by following him, but by what you're sending me. Okay, I saw, you know, several of you tweeted me, when he said, don't be a fan. He's got this hashtag running,

don't be a fan later, which I know is going to bother Tommy tomorrow. I can just predict it right now. You know, like essentially, who the hell is he to tell us not to be a fan later? I mean, does he have any idea what we've been through? And that's true, but it's not going to bother me, you know? And I don't even know why he is hashtagging,

don't be a fan later. And he's getting some criticism and pushback on some of that. when he sends that out. But, you know, there was a guy and he sent me that hashtag, and he said, She and Leverro, get this, this was my response, and then Dwayne blocked me, how thin-skinned. And basically, you responded to Dwayne's Don't Be a fan later. Wouldn't a better attitude be to everyone doubting and hating on me now, you'll eventually come around. My effort and performance will win you over, and I'll be waiting with open arms to welcome you onto the bandwagon when, that day comes. It's scary how thin-skinned you are. And then apparently he got blocked.

I'm just not going to get worked up over this. Yeah. Do I wish that he wouldn't tell people, don't be a fan later? You know, do I wish he had any clue as to what this fan base has been through for the last 20 years? That, you know, he was there last year. He saw the crowds of like 14,000 people in a 75,000 seat stadium. You know, he's got to be paying attention to it. They just didn't decide to do that on their own one day. This has been a slow battering of a fan base by an owner and by a front office and by losing and by dysfunctional losing and by distasteful losing. And in most consumer businesses, most customers would turn and walk away from it.

But when you're in this kind of business and you've got a team and a franchise and an owner that's insulted a fan base for as long as this one has, yes, it would be better for him to recognize that it's hard to be a fan right now for many. Many of you, you're going to stick with it through thick and thin. God bless you. But you are absolutely wrong to criticize those people who have not and have decided. not to watch, not to attend, and not to spend a cent on this football team until something changes dramatically. And it hasn't changed yet.

But those people have every right, every right to have backed away from this product to be not consuming it in the same way they did. It's not their fault. It's the organization's fault. You know, there's nothing, as I've said many times, losing's one thing, but there's been nothing lovable. about this loser. They have chased a fan base away. It's a remarkable consumer product story. I don't think someone like Dwayne Haskins has been around long enough to recognize this.

This should be a case study, as I've mentioned, at Wharton or Harvard Business School, how to completely chase away an absolute loyal and rabid fan base of your product in 20 years or less. It's incredible. I don't have any. problem with the people that don't and aren't fans right now the way they used to. And they should be welcomed back with no questions asked when and if this franchise starts to turn it around. So if you're bothered by it, I understand it. I'm personally not getting wrapped up into it. I would prefer if he knew and had some sensitivity to those fans that have backed away from the franchise and the reasons why they've been in a real one-sided,

ugly relationship. At the same time, God bless all of you that are saying, I don't care what he's done to me. I don't care what this organization has done to me and how they've insulted me. I'm a fan. I'm always going to be a fan and I'm going to stick with them through thick and thin, and I'll be there when they are ready to win and ready, and I believe it's going to happen. Don't turn away those people that have left. Don't you dare do that.

That's wrong. This has not been, you know, a couple of years of losing and fair-weathered, you know, fandom. That's not what this is. This is not a case of fans being fair-weathered. This is a case of fans being battered and insulted for two decades. And those people that have backed away from that relationship, they have every justification for doing it. And they should be welcome back, open arms by everybody in the organization,

if and when the organization starts to prove that they're worthy of being rooted for again. All right, two more things before the end of the show. I want to talk briefly about the last dance. I'll save some of it for tomorrow when Tommy's on. Coolie's going to join us on Wednesday. and I know he wants to talk about the last dances. Well, Cooley was a Utah Jazz fan, you know, growing up where he grew up. So he's going to have a lot to say about it as well.

But it was really a spectacular documentary. And I want to get to the D.C., the PG County documentary, too, before we finish up for the day. What a spectacular documentary this was. Ten parts, the last two episodes last night. The audiences are going to be massive. given the timing of this during the pandemic. This would have been just as spectacular in June after the NBA playoffs in a normal world environment. It would have still been, you know, incredibly well done.

I just, I really enjoyed it. By the way, last night when the last dance concluded, ESPN had commissioned a poll, and they put the results out. The poll was basically a question about who was the better player, was the superior player, or Michael Jordan or LeBron James, and 73% said that Jordan was the superior player overall. They had 17 questions by which Jordan and James were compared to one another, and Michael Jordan had the majority of the vote on all 17 of sort of the comparables, which I'll get to here in a moment. But overall, 73% of NBA fans said that Jordan is the superior player.

And by age group, 18 to 34-year-old, 66% of them said Jordan. Now, older than 35, and those were the two age group splits that they had, between 18 and 34 or 35 and older. 79% 35 and older, said Jordan, but still 66% percent. So basically a two to one advantage said Jordan over LeBron. And that was sort of represented in my household by those that are between 18 and 34 years old, you know, between 18 and 22 years old and 23 years old anyway, that there's this appreciation that the younger generation has of Jordan that they didn't have before this documentary. But yeah, I mean, to me it's not even a discussion.

I mean, in that top 74 that we had last week, I would have had magic in front of LeBron. I know that most of you are rolling your eyes on that. I would have had LeBron really high up there, and there's no doubt. But some of the questions that were asked, you know, Mike or LeBron, when it comes to pick one of these two guys for a game-winning shot. 76% Mike, 24% LeBron. coming through in the clutch, 74% Mike, 26% LeBron. I actually would have thought that that would have been higher in Mike's case. Spectacular to watch play, 74% Michael, 26% LeBron.

We got sort of close on some of these was the better passer. 59% said Michael, 41% said LeBron. I actually would have answered LeBron to that question. Trust to pass you the ball. 57% Michael Jordan, 43% LeBron. I actually would have answered LeBron to that. Better defensive player. Michael, 59%, 41% LeBron.

I think I would have answered Michael, but LeBron can guard. But anyway, the show was great. The final two episodes, there were a couple of moments that I wanted to talk about briefly. Number one was the flu game, which we found out five years. years ago or so was the food poisoning game. That story broke, and I forget who wrote about it four or five years ago, and it may have been from a book. I can't really recall, but I knew, and I think most of you have known that it wasn't the flu, that it was food poisoning that Michael had before game five of that series against Utah in 97. You know, the interesting thing

about the story that was told by Tim Grover and George Kohler, Michael's friend and personal assistant, because the two of them basically told the story last night, is the notion that five people delivered the pizza. You know, Michael was really hungry at night, and they were looking for a place that was open. If you've ever been to Salt Lake City, and I spent actually, in the mid-90s, I spent some time in Salt Lake, about once a month for about, I don't know, nine to ten months of a year in a completely different business. But nothing's open late in Salt Lake City, nothing. And so it was late at night, and they're looking for a place to order pizza. And it was, they found one place.

They found one place to deliver pizza. and five guys delivered the pizza to Michael Jordan's room. Five people. That's nuts. That's crazy. And so Tim Grover, Michael's longtime trainer, immediately was suspicious, immediately was suspicious, and said something's not right here, and you shouldn't eat the pizza. But Michael went ahead and ate the pizza, ate the whole thing by himself, and then woke up violently ill at 3 a.m. the next morning. called Grover, they called the team doctor, and they realized it was food poisoning.

Now, most of you know the rest of the story. Michael's very sick. This is before game five of a two-two series. It turns out that Michael has one of the great games in NBA finals history, given the circumstances. Just brilliant in the game. Jordan goes for 38.7 rebounds, five assists, three steals and a block shot in 44 minutes out of the 48 played. Hits a huge three late. They win the game 90 to 88, and then they close the series out in Chicago in game six when the series resumed a few nights later at United Center. All day, all night long, he's vomiting.

All day long, he's vomiting. He shows up to the game. He's weak. he's, you know, dehydrated. They're trying to pump IV fluids into him. You see the famous, you know, shots of him, you know, during a timeout with a cold towel over his head. And Scotty Pippen or somebody else saying, hang in there. And then he pops up when the timeouts over and he goes out and plays.

An incredible performance, an all-time performance, really, by Jordan. I just find the story really, really sketchy and suspicious. And the reason I feel that way is where's the rest of the story? Where is the investigation? Where is the health department being called in? We didn't get anything last night other than Michael's really sick. Five guys showed up to the hotel room. You know, I had a bunch of people tweeting me this morning.

That could have been in one of those situations where, you know, they're calling around town and the place is about to close and, you know, Grove, on the line saying, hey, look, you know, this is for one of the guys that's playing in the NBA finals tomorrow night, he's really hungry. Can you just make one more pizza and get it over here? Maybe that's why they knew, or maybe they knew it was the team hotel. And when they got to the lobby, somebody said, oh, you're going up to Jordan's room. And, you know, the fact that it was the team hotel, maybe more guys showed up to make the delivery in hopes that they were going to meet a player. There's a lot of possibilities there as to why five guys showed up with a pizza.

But the fact that Grover was suspicious and tried to talk Michael out of eating the pizza, but he wasn't able to talk him out. He should have taken it and tossed it, first of all, and said, I'll go, I'll find something. We'll go to a vending machine or something. But I just, we never got anything in terms of what happened afterwards. And there's never been much about what happened afterwards. Why weren't the authorities called? The health department called? Was this intentional?

If it was intentional, isn't that, you know, I don't know what the charge would be, but you can die from food poisoning. Could have been, I mean, maybe there's an attempted murder charge or an assault charge. I don't know what the charge would be. But there's been nothing about that ever in terms of what the follow-up was.

Somebody tweeted me this morning and said, it's a long drawn-out process with the health department and proving it and okay and the bulls, you know, once they won the game, they were ready to move on from it. All right, maybe. You know, the theory all along is that maybe he drank too much and was hung over. Man, you got to drink an awful lot to suffer that kind of alcohol poisoning. You know, why would he get that banged up the night before? You know, there's also just the possibility that it was unintentional food poisoning.

pizza was delivered and, you know, something in the pizza, maybe the toppings, maybe the meat toppings, you know, were bad. I mean, that's possible too. But I thought the, I think the intentional food poisoning aspect is a hard sell for me because they didn't do anything about it, or at least we don't know that they did anything about it. Like, how couldn't they say, this pizza shop that delivered a pizza to Michael Jordan's room, they intentionally tried to poison him. Why wasn't there some sort of an investigation? Anyway, I thought this stuff about Steve Kerr, for a lot of you, you didn't know that. I knew the story of his father. He taught at the American University in Beirut was murdered there during a very difficult time in the Middle East and in Beirut,

in particular in Lebanon. You know, the Kerr story is an interesting. one because they really made Steve Kerr out to be this true underdog of a player. You know, that he had, he grew up in Southern California, went to Pauley Pavilion, was a huge fan of the UCLA teams, and, you know, coming out of high school, didn't have any scholarship offers, except for one, which, by the way, was Arizona. You know, he didn't say it was a walk-on opportunity. He said it was a scholarship at Arizona for Lut Olson on some really good Arizona teams. He was a really good college basketball player at Arizona.

You know, he wasn't like unheard of barely making it into the NBA through the CBA. He was drafted in the second round after a really good career at Arizona. Kerr was named to the USA basketball team that competed in the Feeble World Championships out of college. Arizona reached a final four in 88 with Arizona. It was Kerr and Elliot, Sean Elliott, who were the two top players on that team. Kerr set an NCAA record for three-point percentage in a season in college basketball. He shot 57.3% in college in one particular season at Arizona.

So he was a very good college basketball player, a well-known college basketball player. Team in Arizona, Lute Olson, a significant program in college hoops. They went to a final four. The 88 Final Four, I think they lost to Danny Manning in Kansas, and then Kansas beat Oklahoma in the final. I think I have that right. It may actually be that they lost to Oklahoma. I forget exactly the way that played out.

But the other part about the Kerr story that was interesting was that Kerr said that he and Michael Jordan never had a conversation about their respective fathers being murdered and that maybe Kerr doesn't even know that Jordan even knows that Kerr's father was murdered. And that leads me to this. You know, there are a couple of takeaways, big takeaways. from the overall series. The first is this,

that I think, you know, this series really led me to believe that Michael Jordan didn't have a true, close relationship in terms of a teammate. And Kerr explained last night how Jordan had a completely different life as an NBA player than the rest of them. You know, security-wise, media-wise, commitment outside of basketball. Jordan was living a totally different life than the rest of them were, you know,

and that there was a bit of a detachment other than at practice and during the games. And I don't know, I got the sense that no one ever really got to know Jordan well and vice versa. Remember there's that one episode, a couple of episodes back, where, you know, he hears from teammates and, you know, how, you know, they felt about him and how he was tough on that. them and you know and he got very emotional and said break you know at the end of that one particular episode um but but simultaneously i i walked away from this thinking he was a bit of an old soul um you know there's that expression about younger people who get along better with older people that they they have an old soul to them and michael jordan's relationships were with older people you know and we see that throughout this.

You know, Michael Jordan had a relationship with a moderate shot, an older guy. George Kohler was his, Chiron, is his best friend and assistant, much older guy. All of the security guys, we got to meet Gus Lett last night, who became like a father figure to him after his father died, and Gus Lett's wife. Gus Lett died of cancer in 2000, and we saw that in memoriam. And the John Wozniak character, who he was flipping quarters. with and gambling with. Michael's relationships were with older people. Those are the people that he seemed to have the connection with and the relationships with. And I'm sure when you're Michael Jordan,

it's hard to find somebody that isn't immediately, like, default-wise, sort of in reverence of him. And that's hard to have a relationship. You've got to have somebody in your life that isn't really moved by your celebrity to really have a close relationship. And that may have been part of it. You know, I'll grant you that. I think the fact that he was super tough on his teammates when they were together and that he wasn't around them that much when they weren't together, you know, at practice or during a game.

But I liked Jordan after this more than maybe I thought I would based on, you know, Jordan's saying before the series started, a lot of people aren't going to like me when this thing is over. I didn't feel that way when it was over. I sort of view him as a guy that, you know, had an incredible, he was, first of all, the greatest player. I mean, you know, this sort of solidifies it if it, if it wasn't solidified beforehand. But the celebrity that he had, the superstar, the world superstar that he became, you know, you could argue in the 90s, and even today that Jordan is one of the most recognizable faces on the planet, probably top 10, when he was playing maybe top five recognizable face on the planet. And what goes with that is something that people can't relate to. His teammates couldn't relate to. His coaches couldn't relate to. And the people that seem to relate to him best were the people that maybe who were older didn't, you know, didn't sort of

revere him in the same way, at least outwardly. I don't know. I liked Jordan when all of this was over. You know, there was the part about Pippin bailing after game three of the 98 finals to go do that wrestling thing with Holcogen at Auburn Hills in Detroit. You know, Galby on radio this morning said, and I did not know this story, and this is a good story, that the scuffle that he and Carl Malone got into in that series was orchestrated for the wrestling event that they both would ultimately participate in when the season was over. That's unbelievable, actually.

But, you know, I said this before when Rodman was the focus of episode three, I think it was. you look at a guy like Rodman and don't you think, you know, as a grown-up, don't you think in looking at him from afar, but, you know, sort of doing your own psychological profile of Rodman, that it was so fortunate for him that he got Chuck Daly and Phil Jackson as his coaches? Like, what if he ended up with some dopey coach and some bad organization? How would life have turned out for him? You know, he ended up with two coaches who were incredibly smart, incredibly open-minded, understood sort of his psychological profile, understood his emotional makeup, and they worked with it because he was such a great player. And so when he leaves to go to this wrestling event after game three of the 98 finals, a game three, which I did not remember, was a night.

96 to 54 Bulls win over Utah. A 42 point win. That's amazing, by the way, 54 points. That, you know, he seemed perturbed Jackson did when interviewed. But, you know, Rodman was back. He was in the lineup, had 14 rebounds, six points in game five as they took a three one series lead. Or in game four, excuse me, as they took a three one series lead. The final Jordan game is remarkable, obviously, with the way it ended. Scotty Pippin's got the back injury in that game in 98. Jordan final six points, the steel after the ball went into Malone with a one-point lead, Utah holding the ball with a one-point lead,

and Jordan slips in backside off of his guy to get the steel. And then I love the way Pippin said, you know, my job at that point was just to get the hell out of the way. And Pippen, not Pippin, Rodman says there was no effing way this time that Steve Kerr was getting the pass or Paxson was getting the pass. Paxson wasn't even on that team. That this was all about Mike. Phil Jackson didn't even take a time out. He crosses Russell over. He pushes off a little bit with the left hand. I love the way Costas described it as.

It was no more of a push-off than a Mator D basically helping somebody to their table. it wasn't impactful on the play. He had Russell leaning the wrong way. He had created the space necessary to knock down that shot. What an incredible ending. It is still the single biggest takeaway for me from this series is still how incredible it is that Jerry Reinsdorf allowed it to end. And what we learned last night is Jordan would have signed on for another year, had Phil been signed on for another year. And he's convinced that everybody would have signed on for another year to go for seven. You know, he's looking at that iPod pad to hear Reinsdorf's statement about it and his explanation about it, where Reinsdorf says, the other player's values had risen too much. It was too high.

We had to go rebuild mode. We couldn't afford it. Well, Michael says everybody would have signed a one-year deal that would have made it work. You know, now Phil Jackson says it was time to move on, but keep in mind, Phil Jackson also was told by Jerry Krauss before the season started, you could go 82 and 0 and win the NBA title, and you're done after this year. This is your last year. I did think it was wild that Pippin, in talking about Jerry Krause there at the end, gave him credit for being, quote, obviously the greatest general manager in the game, close quote, as he was, you know, we know how much he disliked him.

And then the final story told by Steve Kerr, an amazing. story. The final meeting after they win the championship, the team gets together. This has been the last dance season. And Phil Jackson asks all of the players to write down their thoughts about what it was like to be a part of it. And they all get together as a team and he's got a tin can and he's got, you know, basically, I guess a candle or a wick or something in that tin can that he can light. And he asks everybody to read their, you know, what they've written about what it meant to them to be a part of that team. And Michael Jordan writes a poem. We don't hear what the poem is. It'd be cool to hear it. But Michael Jordan wrote a poem for it. And Phil Jackson said

that it was incredible that he was surprised at the depth, the emotional depth that Michael went to, that it surprised him. Steve Kerr said, that when Phil Jackson at the end of everybody reading it, took everybody's handwritten notes, puts them into this tin can, turns the lights off, and lights the flame. You know,

lights the tin can and the wick and whatever it was that was underneath it that would burn everything that was in it. And they all walk out of there, and Steve Kerr said, quote, it was one of the most powerful moments I've ever been a part of, close quote.

Phil Jackson, just had away, man. And what a story. You know, this was about Michael Jordan, 75% of it, but it was also about the Bulls of those years. You know, we got a lot of stories. We got the story of Krauss. We got the story of Rodman. We got the story of Pippen.

We got the story of Steve Kerr. We got a lot of stories in addition to just Jordan. All of it sort of spins back, you know, and ties into Jordan. But it's a hell of a documentary. Really, really well done. Lastly, before we go, let me remind everybody, you can listen to me on the Team 980. You can also listen to those podcasts by downloading the Team 980 app. You can also download this show's app, the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast app.

That's available and listen to it at the Kevin Sheehan Show.com, which is where we post the show as well. Rate us and review us if you can do that and you haven't done it. That really helps also from an advertising standpoint. So the PG County, it's in the water, you know, basketball documentary, the Kevin Durant documentary that aired on Showtime on Friday night was really good. I really, I enjoyed it a lot. You know, there's a source of pride there. You know, I've always had that sense of pride being a D.C. native and loving basketball and having been, you know, a very small part of coaching over the last 25 years, various travel teams and that have participated in a lot of different venues and a lot of different events around town. And in fact, the facility that they talked about in district

heights been there many, many times with teams. But I really, I thought it was well done. You know, it was more focused on the last, you know, 20 years, you know, with Kevin Durant and Jeff Green and a lot of Michael Beasley in this thing and Victor Oladipo and both of the grants and Quinn Cook and I can't even remember, you know, who I'm forgetting. I love this, I love the part on Dematha and the importance that the Dematha program has had on this city. And how many of those players that go to Dematha are from PGC, County. I loved the history lesson in particular. You know, things that I think I knew, but I didn't totally know for sure about how the 68 riots following the Martin Luther King

assassination really pushed many of the African American residents of the district into PG County and how PG County is viewed as inside the Beltway totally different demographically in terms of the income level from outside the Beltway. Outside the Beltway in PG County is one of the most affluent African American zip code or zip codes in the country. Inside is very difficult, you know, poverty-stricken in many of those areas. But I also didn't know about the number of rec centers and parks and how PG counties invested in that over the years and how, you know, that's been such a key to the the playing and the development of talent over the years. I enjoyed it.

God, the list of players, my God, that have come out of this area, you know, that go all the way back, you know, out of PG County. And look, if you were to combine, you know, PG County and D.C. And even, you know, Montgomery and Fairfax County. I mean, there have been NBA players out of those areas, not as many as PG County or D.C. but the list of PG County players going back to 1966, you know, but really, you know, the 30 in the last 20 years is amazing. No county's been close. But I saw the list after the show names that I've heard over the years, like Harold Fox, who was a great player at Northwestern in the early 70s.

Adrian Dantley grew up in PG County, obviously an all-timer out of D'Amatha. You know, Adrian Dantley, was followed at DeMath by two PG County natives, Kenny Carr and Hawkeye Whitney. Sydney Lowe and then Adrian Branch. Derek Wittenberg isn't on this list because Derek Wittenberg didn't have a career in the NBA. And I think maybe it's because Witt grew up in the district. I'm not entirely sure about that. Len Bias, there's a whole, you know, I really enjoyed that and the impact that he had on so many PG County young players. and what he was at Northwestern. You know, sort of conspicuous by absence was no Gary Williams as a part of this show.

I was surprised at that. You know, no Mark Turgeon as a part of this show. You know, for the major university basketball powerhouse in this area that's located right in the heart of PG County in College Park. You know, Brenda Freeze was a part of it. No Gary Williams, no Mark Turgeon. You know, I'm not sure why that would be. I'm going to have Gary Williams tomorrow on the radio show. So I'm going to ask him about that.

There were certainly the issues that Gary had with Curtis Malone and D.C. assault, you know, that Gary was proven right on. You know, Gary used to be criticized by a lot of the Maryland people that he wasn't recruiting D.C. assault players or why weren't a lot of these D.C. assault players going to Maryland. Well, a lot of them really weren't going to go to Maryland from the jump. They were going to go places that, you know, look, I mean, bottom line, you know, there were places that paid. You know, and Maryland wasn't paying, and they haven't paid. So, you know, like Kevin Durant's recruiting, he was going to Texas pretty much day one. Maryland wasn't really even allowed to recruit Kevin Durant. You know, a lot of Maryland fans, how did Durant get out of here?

because Stu Vedder basically said he's going to Texas. You know, this is where he's going. But Gary did get Gravis Vasquez, who ended up being a great college player from Mantra's Christian. Anyway, I enjoyed it. I thought it was well done. A lot of pride there as a D.C. native, you know, not as a PG County native, but as a D.C. native to see the recognition that this area gets. Not everybody knows this around the country.

Not everybody knows that this. I think people know basketball fans know what a hotbed the D.C. and Baltimore areas are for high school basketball. But I don't know that they knew that 30 NBA players over the last 20 years. It's ridiculous. Well done, though. Good show. You know, you learn about DeMarne Johnson.

You learn about, you know, some of the recruitments of the Beasley story. Nolan Smith and the Curtis Malone connection there and what happened to Curtis Malone. Anyway, that's it for the day. Tommy's with me tomorrow. We'll do some more last dance tomorrow, and I'm sure there will be a lot more as well. Have a great day. Stay safe.