The Kevin Sheehan Show - Redskins' Coaching Dilemma

Episode Date: January 25, 2019

Kevin opens up the show talking Wizards-Warriors and then takes a closer look at the awkward Redskins' coaching staff situation. Walt Williams joins the show to talk Terps hoops and his book with co-author Tony Massenburg on Len Bias. Andy Pollin finishes up the show with a look back at Super Bowl 26 (Skins over Buffalo) which was 27 years ago tomorrow. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I'm here. Aaron is off today. Corbin is in to produce as he has done so ably in the past. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com and tell them we told you to call. Walt Williams is going to join the show a little bit later on. He'll talk about his book on Len Bias with Tony Masenberg, wrote it with Tony Massenberg. We'll obviously talk some Terps hoops as well. Andy a little bit later on, I got this tweet this morning or maybe late last night from one of my favorites, the incomparable CJ. He said that today was the 100th podcast that I've done here on the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast. I had no idea. I had no idea that it was the 100th. I have nothing planned today, but we did get a reaction from Greed 34 at Greed 34. who said whatever he does, he'll do it with a Trevor Eriza jersey on. I don't have a Trevor Ereza jersey, but if I were going to purchase a jersey, I don't own any jerseys, actually.

But if I were to purchase one wizard's jersey over the last six, seven years, it would definitely be a Trevor Eriza jersey. He had 27 last night. He's played well since he's gotten here. Unfortunately, I think that there's so much interest in him in a trade. I think the Wizards would be stupid not to try to get something back for Trevor or Riza, unless they're going to sign him and keep him here. Last night was quite the scene at Capital One Arena.

It really was quite the atmosphere, quite the scene. The Warriors are like a major show coming to town, and it didn't disappoint. It was, I thought the Wizards had a legitimate chance to win the game. Now, I'm sure had they taken the lead there at 108, 106, they were down two, had a couple of possessions there. Had they taken the lead or extended the lead by four or five, Golden State would have just put it into a different gear. But, you know, really last night, it all boiled down to, you know,

the Wizards just didn't make enough open shots. They had them. You know, Beale was one for nine from behind the three-point line. A lot of those were open looks. Otto Porter was 0 for 7 from behind the line, and he had a bunch of open looks. I mean, the Wizards were 15 of 42 from the three-point line. Golden State giving up a lot of those open threes, and the Wizards didn't make enough of them.

They were combined Porter and Beal, one for 16. You make two or three or four of those, and maybe it's a different game. They were open shots, too. They were open shots. Look, Golden State, they're not going anywhere, man. They're going to win the title again. And the addition to Boogie Cousins looks really frightening, because that dude gives them something that they really haven't had.

It'll be interesting to watch to see how they incorporate it. He's an elite talent. I mean, that's never been debated. They're not losing a best of seven in May or June. It's just not going to happen. There's nobody that's going to win four out of seven against that team. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I'm really eager to see the Wizards win enough games to make the playoffs with this particular team,

because I don't think there's much of an upside to making the postseason in the east for them. I mean, they're not better than five or six, seven teams. Maybe they're certainly not better than Toronto. They're not better than Boston. They're not better than Philadelphia. I think that's a lock. You know, Indiana without Oladipo, I mean, who knows what they'll be?

They're not going to be as good. They're not going to have a chance in the postseason without Oladipo. Brooklyn's played above their makeup. Charlotte's not that great. Miami's not that great. The Wizards are in that category of the six-seed on down. You know, they are. But they're not beating Milwaukee in a best of seven or Philly or Boston or Toronto. You know, they're not. So what does that mean? That means that they're in the first round and they're out if they are able to get there. And I think they are two games out of the eighth spot right now. We're 47 games into the season.

You know, the NBA All-Star break is not the halfway mark of the NBA season. It always comes. comes after, well after the halfway mark. But I enjoy watching this team play. I mean, they're obviously a higher IQ team with Trevor O'Reza on the roster. I don't think anybody would debate that. They were much higher IQ team when Trevor O'Reza was on the team before. Sataranski plays smart basketball. They play, you know, better team basketball. They do. I think Jeff Green's got to step up and do a little bit more. And I think Beal, you know, I've said this over and over. again for years. I just, he's playing at a very high level and he's scoring a lot of points and he is the go-to guy for them. And I do think he is deserving of being on the All-Star team. But he just

still has some of these turnovers during the course of a game that I just, they're so enforced much of the time. If he could ever get that corrected, if he could ever become an 85% free throw shooter, I don't know why he isn't. Well, I do know. I do know why. His stroke, as I've mentioned this many times before, is a flatter stroke from the free throw line than it is on his jump shot. It's not a big correction if he recognizes it or the coaching staff recognizes it. It just needs a little bit more lift, a little bit more arc. It's a very flat free throw stroke. It's why he's always been in the 70s and not the mid-to-high 80s, which is where he should be as a free-throw shooter.

and he missed three last night. You know, imagine, you know, if he were, I haven't done the math on this, but Bradley Beale's shooting stroke is an 85% free throw, should be an 85% free throw shooter, should result in that. It isn't because it's not the same stroke at the free throw line that it is, you know, in terms of his release, his elbow extension, his follow-through, et cetera, as it is on his jump shot.

But imagine the points, the point differential. He's averaging basically 25 a game right now. And his free throw percentage on the season this year is 78%. 78.3% right now. It should be 85%. He should never be lower than 85%. He should be one of the better free throw shooters in the league. I don't know why he isn't.

The leading free throw guys in the league right now, when you're talking about eligible attempts, Malcolm Brogden is shooting 96% from the free throw line. Steph Curry's 93%. Rodney Hood is 91%. Bellanelli, Gallinari, Lillard, Durant, and Reddick. They're all 90% or better. Is Bradley Beal, does he have as pure of a stroke as some of those guys? No.

but in the next category of guys that are all in the 80s, he's absolutely as good as shooter as Tobias Harris. Marcus Morris is an 87% free throw shooter. He doesn't get a lot of attempts, but he gets enough to be eligible for this. I just think Beal is missing too many opportunities and has over the course of his career at the free throw line. Anyway, look, they are,

they're not a team that's going anywhere this year. It'll be interesting to see how they handle the trade deadline. I don't know what they'll do. I like watching them more now. I enjoyed last night. It was a scene, and I really liked that Jeff Green made that final shot to get the backdoor cover. Anybody that had the plus nines, plus nine and a halfs last night,

winner, thanks to Jeff Green's Corner 3 there at the end to make it a 126-118 final. If you miss Jason Lockenforah yesterday on the podcast, go listen to it. Lots of interesting nuggets on the Redskins. It starts at the 16-minute 45-second mark yesterday. Two to three new pieces of information from it, I think. Maybe some of that, some of what he said yesterday was already out there. A couple of the things I'll just mention real quickly. First, when Lockenforah mentioned in his story last week that Dan Snyder was

willing to change the personnel structure for Todd Bowles if Bowles wanted him to. Jason yesterday on the podcast said that that really referred to giving Doug Williams more power over personnel, which is perhaps something that Bowles would have wanted. It wasn't necessarily about firing Bruce Allen. Bowles and Doug Williams are friends, former teammates, and it was about, you know, elevating or adding to Doug's responsibilities and power. Secondly, Jason, yesterday told us that there were times in the past where people in the organization weren't happy that Bowles wasn't given open opportunities to coach the team as a defensive coordinator or head coach, that it ruffled feathers around the park that Todd Bowles hadn't been hired

by this organization or considered seriously by this organization in the past. And then Jason Lockhamforay yesterday on the podcast dropped this. little nugget about Greg Williams. He said that Dan and Greg Williams have really had a good relationship over the years, even though Greg didn't get the job when Gibbs retired. And he said that Dan has said to Greg Williams in the past, hey, one day, we're going to work together again. So that relationship is close, and Snyder's always had a desire to work with Greg Williams again. and Greg Williams apparently with Snyder. Yet, why didn't he hire him now?

You know, Greg Williams was more interested in working as a defensive coordinator in New York than being a defensive coordinator here. Didn't even take the meeting here. I've said, going back to late November, early December, I'd fire Jay, Bruce, elevate Kyle Smith, Eric Schaefer, and hire Greg Williams to be the head coach. And then you let Greg Williams, you know, handle the hiring of an offensive. coordinator. I'd draft a young quarterback if I really loved one and a ton of defense after that.

Sign more defense and free agency. Let Williams get his type of players on defense in particular and let him go. It's as good a plan as any. It's a better plan that they have right now. And perhaps that's the plan for next year. Perhaps. One thing's clear from this first month of off season. The Redskins don't have Jay Gruden's replacement on the staff. It's not. going to be Bill Callahan. It's not going to be Kevin O'Connell. It's not going to be Jim Tom Sula. And that leads to this. Dan Snyder just didn't want Todd Bowles or Greg Williams potentially to replace Greg Minusky. He wanted one or the other so that they would be in place to eventually replace Jay Gruden. I do believe that. And Jason believed that too as he came on

the podcast yesterday. You know, the Redskins are entering the most important portion of the 2019 off-season, and then eventually we'll get to the 2019 regular season, with a defensive coordinator and Greg Minuski, who they clearly don't want, and a head coach and Jay Gruden that they are at best, at best, Luke Warmon, probably want to replace, but for many reasons didn't because it was a tough year to do it, and Locke and Forra went through those reasons, and we've done the same in the past as well. You know, you ended up, you know, with guys like, you know, Matt Lafleur and Cliff Kingsbury getting head coaching positions. There weren't a lot of options out there this year,

and the Redskins weren't going to be at the top of anybody's list. But for many reasons, you know, they didn't replace the defensive coordinator or the head coach, but they would have preferred to have hired either Bowles or Williams and would have preferred to have either one of them sitting there ready to replace Jay Gruden next year. Think about that for a moment. forget the off-field shenanigans for just a moment. They're never going to stop. That has become the one thing more than any other that you can count on with the Redskins.

They will do things and handle things in ways that most children would be smart enough to avoid. Forget that for a moment, the off-field circus. Just focus on the product that they are going to have in 2019. Try to be objective about it. Start with the coaching staff, a rather important point. part of the team, the coaches, you need coaches. This offseason so far, they've lost three coaches, Kotwika, Tori and Gray, and Kirk Alavadadi, rumblings of others that would like to leave, and then the clear-cut attempt to replace their defensive coordinator, which has been so far

unsuccessful, and more likely than not will be unsuccessful. They've got a head coach that would have been replaced or would have had a potential replacement on the staff had they been able to hire Greg Williams or Todd Bulls. Let's not forget that Jay, at the end of the year, in his end-of-season press conference, alluded to a front office coaching staff not being on the same page. Yet Jay wasn't, according to the information that is out there, involved in the Bowles meeting or the Williams conversation,

his defensive coordinator who would have likely been his eventual replacement, was being interviewed by the owner. How's that for stability? Your head coach and your defensive coordinator will try to coach up a team next year, knowing that their employer tried to replace one of them, desperately tried to replace one of them, and once more likely than not to eventually replace both. Again, put aside the off-field stuff, just for the purposes of this conversation,

how isn't the 2019 season already a total shit show in the making? I haven't even mentioned the roster, which has a major question mark at the most important position on the field. The coaching staff is a house of cards. It's going to fall. It's just a matter of when, right? Nobody in the building wants a Minusky, but he's got the second most important coaching job in the organization. The head coach appears to be dead man walking entering 2019.

Other coaches on the staff would prefer to be elsewhere, and in some cases like Bill Callahan, he and the head coach would both love to move on from each other, but the owner and team president want Callahan to stay. It's the NFL, anything can happen, draft a game-changing quarterback that's ready to go day one, have John Allen turn into Aaron Donald or Fletcher Cox, have Duran Payne turn into, you know, Nidamaconsu,

watch Darius Geis turn into Zeke Elliott or Todd Gurley? Who knows? It's the NFL. The talent isn't so different team to team. Anything can happen. The worst of situations in August, sometimes turn in to division winners in December and January. Jacksonville two years ago. Chicago this year, it happens.

but outside of the NFL is crazy and totally unpredictable, the Redskins look like they have so many issues entering next season. It's really incredible going back to Tuesday in Bruce Allen's press avail, that he thinks they are close. He's lying or delusional. It's what he's selling to the owner, I'm sure. close? I don't care who comes off injured reserve. They weren't that close this year. They weren't close a year ago, even though he thinks they were a game out of the playoffs in 2017 when they were

four games out of the playoffs. How didn't he know that? Or he did know that and just didn't think we'd look it up or remember like he thought with McLuhan's grandmother funeral thing, didn't think anybody would look it up. Four games out in 2017. Their seven and nine in 2017 wasn't anywhere near close. The six and three this year was on the verge of becoming six and four in the Houston game, even if they didn't lose their quarterback. And no team in the league other than Arizona got blown out by bigger margins more often than the Redskins did last year. The loss to the Saints early, the Colts early, the Falcons midway through the season, when they were healthy, blowouts, not close, not close to anything.

They were pedestrian on offense when they were winning, great on defense, but only great on defense when they faced pedestrian offenses themselves. Then the defense fell apart, and the defense was supposed to be the strength of the team. I had them in September as a 9-7-7-7-7-7. team with a chance at a wild card. We all thought in August and September that Philly would win the division, but that the Redskins were going to be much improved on defense and that they wouldn't take a major step back on offense. I thought they would take a step back on offense. I did and said as much, but I thought that Alex Smith was a good move if they really thought

they could win in 2018 rather than going with a rookie or Colt McCoy. In years past, I was thinking about this last night. I don't think I've had them any worse than seven and nine in recent years. I think maybe the best prediction in August, September was in 2016, where I really thought that if they just improved a little bit on defense, they could be a 10, 11 win team. I can't imagine thinking about where I will be in August, September on this team, that I could, I can't imagine having them be more than a six-win team prediction-wise. How could anybody feel differently? When we start to get to the pre-season prediction portion of the NFL calendar,

after free agency, after the draft, after the schedule is out, you know, the May-June timeframe, the skins are going to be universally. They will be universally picked to finish last in the NFC East. That's a lock. You know, I mean, you might have a couple of outliers, but most people will look at the division and say, Philly, Dallas Giants are all better than the Redskins. It doesn't mean much. I'm a big proponent and have been over the years about, you know,

the NFL's the most difficult league to predict, and all of the preseason, you know, predictions are really worth nothing. You know, it's such a difficult league to predict. But I'm just pointing out that the skins will be viewed based on the product that they will have on the field and the coaching staff that they will bring back. as a dead last division pick. I found a few 2020 mock drafts on the internet last night.

One of them, Walter Football, has the skins picking 12th overall ahead of all of the other three NFC East teams, so predicting them to be last in the NFC East. And then there was this NFL draft site.com. I don't know anything about it, but there were only like two 2020 mock drafts that I could find. and that one had the Redskins picking second overall. So the second worst record in the NFL and taking Georgia quarterback Jake Fromm. Tua went first.

You know, I've heard that tanked the 2019 season strategy in order to get Tua. Perhaps that's the current grand plan for Snyder and Allen. Maybe that's the strategy. Maybe that's why Gruden and Minusckey are here and coming back. Maybe that's why they're forcing Callahan. to stay. 2019, all in for Tua.

Of course, that strategy will fall apart when they ship their 20-20 first-round pick and their 2019 second-rounder to the Raiders so that they can pick Dwayne Haskins at four overall in this draft. Just a little prediction there. Real quickly about Window Nation. They love this podcast. Harley, Aaron, Eric, they listen all the time. Harley and Aaron are two of the best entrepreneurs I have ever met.

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plus once a year home show discounts from the company that is installed over 450,000 windows and more than 80,000 homes including mine. Get two free windows for every two you buy, buy four, get four free, no limit, plus zero percent financing. Call Windonation at 86690 Nation or visit Windonation.com. That's 86690 Nation or Windonation.com and tell them that I sent you. All right, let's bring in Walt Williams, one of my favorite people. in town. Of course, he does the games with Johnny and Chris Knocky, the Maryland Games, Terps in

New York tomorrow, Madison Square Garden to face Illinois. Plus, Walt's got a book out with Tony Massenberg. Lessons from Lenny. Lessons learn from the death of Len bias and a lot more. And we'll talk about that book here momentarily. Let's start, though, with Maryland and this particular team. And a team, you know, Walt, that, I mean, I think, and I've said this a few times to a couple of people, including NACI over the last few weeks, I actually think this is Turgent's best team.

Do you agree or not? I do. I think that even though it's weird to say that, you know, because the top eight guys on the rotation are five of them are freshmen, two are sophomore. So it just shows you the environment of college these days. But the thing is, these guys play with a lot of points. And more importantly, they all give it up on a defense event. So individually, they all do a good job.

So and collectively together, you know, you got Bruno anchoring the defense in the paint and making things difficult just in case guys get beat, which rarely happens. So, you know, defense travels. So it gives them a chance to win in any environment, any game. So I believe it comes down to what they can do offensively and being able to hit shots from the outside. Yeah, you know, it's strange saying that because the team with Mello and Diamond Stone and, you know, Rashad Suleiman, etc., Jake Lehman was a talented team and at one point was ranked second in the country, but, you know, it was a bit a bit fraudulent when we got into that

season that year and got to the tournament, although they got to the Sweet 16 and lost to Kansas in that game. But I'm curious as to what you think we learned about them Monday night in East Lansing against a Michigan State team that looks like a national championship contender. Well, you know, the Big Ten is a physical conference, to say the least. But you even got to go to another level in the physicality when you play a Michigan State team. You know, the referees let the game go a little bit more in those type of games. You let the body go. They let the physicality of setting screens and things of that nature moving a little bit.

They let those things go. So you, in turn, got to do those things on the other end, the force officials to allow you to play in that same way. But also defensively, you have to have a mindset of toughness and fighting through things that you normally wouldn't have to. and at the end of the day, you've got to make shots. You know, offensively, they just could not put the ball in a hole. I thought they had periods where they played solid defense, but they just couldn't take advantage of it on the offensive end. So I think at the end of the day, they bring all these other things to the table,

individually and collectively, but I think when you talk about the upper echelon teams, they're going to have to put it together offensively. one of the things from the other night in watching that game, and it's been something that I've wished Maryland would do more of. But Michigan State, Walt, was taking the ball out of the net at times, including on free throws and trying to run and trying to up-tempo the game. There was a made free throw, and the shot attempt, I think, came within seven seconds on the other end. I mean, it's hard to run after a made free throw, but that's their.

mindset. And I, one of the reasons I always love talking to you is for those that don't know it, Walt was obviously a great player, a college and NBA player, but you're a hell of a coach, too, and you've been coaching for a long time. And I've always wanted Turgeon's teams, in particular, the teams that have had some talent, to play up-tempo more, to force pace more. And I thought they were going to do that earlier in the season, and they pressured a little bit full court earlier in season, but I think we've seen in the last few games, he's comfortable more often than not in a grind-it-out game. Well, I think with less to that is you have a guy like Gruno, someone who can take over a game

in a low post with his ability to score and now with his ability to find that open guy and create a great shot out of a double team. So it's kind of a catch-22 because I agree with you. especially a guy like Anthony Cowan, he is just electrifyingly quick out there. So he's able to get the ball up the court very quickly. And the key to me and really forcing the pace in being at a transition team is being able to have a four or five men who can stretch the defense and allow you to have four guys on the perimeter that you can drive and kick to.

And so the clubs have that. And so, you know, when you go to the bench with Lindo, you start with sticks, however you want to do it, that element is there. And so I believe that you have a situation where you can take advantage of teams in both aspects. I agree with you once again. I think against a Michigan State team, you don't want to have to set up into a half-course situation. They have big guys that can bang with Bruno and keep him from getting as close to the basket. you have to definitely double-team definitively. And so I think the way you can just create easy opportunities,

just push the ball, especially with a quick point guard like Anthony. So I think they have the ability to have the versatility to play in a half-course situation, but also be a transitional team. So I think they can do both. Yeah, and I know what you're saying. And when you said it the way, your first part of the answer, you know, you just, those of us that are watching every minute of every game, they have been more effective this year in the half court because they've got that low post option.

But the other part of it in their half court sets, when they run it through Bruno at the elbow, rather than on the post, I'd like to see him face and actually be more of a scoring threat from that range. Because I think he's got a great stroke, but I don't think he shoots it enough. What do you think? Oh, he definitely has a great stroke. you can tell from the way he shoot free throws. Yeah, you know, his form is beautiful. And so I think he hit one or two threes this year as well.

So he definitely can stretch the defense and shoot the ball from the outside, especially from the free throw line area. And he also can put it on the floor, put it down one or two hard dribbles and move to the basket. So he can get those guys moving laterally one way to take advantage of them to the other. So, and it's a little bit more difficult to, the double team from that position as well. So I think over the course of the year,

you'll see this TIRP team start to adapt and figure out different ways to take advantage of these teams because they're going to have to do that in the Big Ten and so many good teams. They're going to be zoned in on certain ways that the Terps play. So you're going to have to adapt and being able to change things up and tweak things along the way. And I think this coach and staff will be able to do that.

I saw the other night, the key move in the Minnesota game a week and a half ago or two weeks ago, whenever that was, is when he went to the zone because they just could not stop Minnesota from getting to the rim. And I saw the other night, you know, he went to some zone there for a little while. I mean, the game was sort of out of control at that point. He doesn't like to play zone, but sometimes I think in certain situations for this team, it makes sense. do you agree or not? Oh man, you know what? I am from the school. I hate zones as well.

The reason why I will go to a zone is if I can't keep guys in front of me and they're creating easy opportunities on the penetration of kicking things like that. So when that element is there, you do have to shift. And sometimes you shift to zone, maybe a play or two just to keep them off balance. But to just go to a zone, I think that you do that. when there's an element created where you can't keep guys in front of you. So that was the situation, just like you said, in Minnesota. And so it helped him in that situation there.

But I think Michigan State, they have guys that can shoot the ball from the outside consistently. Cassius Winston does a great job of creating easy opportunities. You know, he's a true point guard in the sense of he will take up that space and make guys and create opportunities. he make guys have to come in knowing that he's not going to create a shot for himself, but have a particular instance to say, I'm going to come into this pain, I'm going to make this guy come in and help so that I can create this open opportunity when I kick it out to my guy.

And so he plays the game in that way. And when you have a point guard like that and you surround them with shooters and bigs that can clean up the glass, you know, it can be dangerous for a zone because zones, you really don't have a guy there. It's hard to box out as well. So Michigan State can probably take advantage of moments when you're going into a zone for a long period of time. Yeah, it's just that what's interesting is I actually think Cowan's a really good on-ball defender, and I think more Selk can defend.

But they have had problems, I think, about the Minnesota game, even a little bit in the Indiana game, and certainly on Monday night, they've had a difficult time keeping the ball in front of them. It's gotten to the rim and gotten into the paint pretty easily at times here. even in the games that they've won, which is interesting. I'm excited about this team. I mean, we've got some big games coming up, home games that you know the place will be jacked up with the students back. They've got Purdue at home.

They've got Michigan at home, some big games at home the rest of the way. What do you think their upside is? How good is this team? How far can it go? Oh, man, you have two leaders in Bruno and Calhwin. Anthony takes, you know, he's shown that he's a guy when Bruno's not in the rhythm or when you double team in him. He's a guy who's shown that we can go to a pick and roll type of situation or ISO, and he can make big shots. He's consistently done that.

Even when he's had games where he hasn't played particularly well on the offensive event throughout down the stretch, you know, hitting big shots, not just getting to the basket layups, but threes off the dribble, spot up, you know, you know, he's very confident out there. He believes that he can do it. He's very competitive. You can see he's infectious throughout the team. The young guys feed off of him and Bruno, you know, when guys get into the paint, Bruno blocking shots or altering shots are fixed up a great job of cleaning up on the weak side.

So I think that the element of being able to defend at a high level as a team collectively and the leadership of you have two guys that can do it from different. places on the court. I think that that makes this a very dangerous team in close games, but then also, you know, I think they've got to get into more of a transitional game to be able to blow games open. I think they have the ability to blow games open. I think that what would be a key to that, though, is to give Wiggins a little bit more leeway out there, a little bit more playing time. I think he's the guy that can explode. And with confidence, I think he's a guy that can consistently get it going. And when you've got to pay attention

to a guy who's a shooter when you got an inside element like Bruno and then you got a guy who's a jitterbug like Cal and being able to get into the paint. I mean, that's all they're missing right there. Just a guy who commands your attention from the outside. And I think that elevates his team to another level. Yeah, Wiggins can shoot it. And I actually, I don't think there's anybody out there, including Daryl. I don't mind. If he shoots it confidently, you know, he's gotten a little bit better. I think he's one of the more underrated players in terms of what he can bring to a team than most Maryland fans understand. I think they know he's a good defender. I also think he might be the toughest kid out there. Well, man, you know from you coach as well, man, and you know that

it's just certain players that don't, it doesn't reflect it in the stat sheets and points or whatever, but he just gives you a comfort level out there when he's out there on the court because he's going to make the right plays. He's going to be able to defend the other team's best player and hold them down. And that gives you a freedom as a coach to do other things knowing that I can just rely on this guy to shut another guy down. And then offensively, he's not a liability out here. He's going to make good plays. So he's a beast. He's got that bullet game going to the basket. If you're, if you're not a strong guard, he's going to take advantage of the rebound in the ball or posting up or just off the dribble, just spin moves and getting you to the basket.

But now, you know, he's shown instances where when he catch the ball and just immediately understands that he's open and he must take the shot, he's making it, you know, and so I think he's just going to get better and better at that. He can handle the ball at times and transition. He can make a good decision. So I think that his all-around game really is solid for the team. and he's reflective of what the team brings to the tables. Defensively, solid, being able to have moments where you can score offensively

and just making a right play. You know who he reminds me of in terms of the kind of career that I think he's going to end up having is DJ Strawberry. Remember, DJ was a little bit limited offensively early on and just grew, but we always had the defense, was always fearless and tough. You know, Daryl's got a lot of DJ Strawberry in him. And you know he's going to be here four years, too. He's only a sophomore.

Yeah, man. He got that, he got that, you know, that aura about him, that competitiveness. You see it as a freshman. This guy would guard seniors that was the leading score on teams or the go-to guy. He wanted every bit of it, you know. So, you know, I really took a liking to that part of his game. It's just the mentality is that he brought to the table. And not so much the things that skillfully he can do on the court,

just his mentality he brings to the game. Very competitive, very confident, and he wears it on his sleeve. All right. Tell me about the book that you and Tony have written on Lenny. Yeah, so, you know, me and Tony, we're good friends, and we were teammates 30 years ago, so we've been friends for a long time,

and so we often get together, and we reminisce about the good old days, man, you know. And oftentimes, most times Lenny dominates, and bias dominates the conversation or discussion. So we thought it would be a good idea to write about the impact he had on our lives personally. The community as a whole and the University of Maryland, you know, many heard of the circumstances surrounding his death, but few understand what he meant to us and the impact he had in the aftermath.

But at the end of the day, also, this is not just a basketball story. You know, I understand he was a two-time ACC player at a year, athlete of the year, number two pick to the Boston Celtics, and we all tried to mimic him on the basketball court. But also, we felt like this is an American story. You know, we touch upon, you know, laws that were changed or came into place that led to mass incarceration in our communities. Our communities were affected disproportionately, and so we wanted to talk about that. We also talk about the academic support changes that were made in order to help the student athlete graduate at a higher rate. And Lynn's death, there was sort of a rebirth of the University of Maryland, if you will.

And so we just wanted to talk about these things so that you can have the full narrative of who Lynn was and what he meant to the community and what he meant to us as basketball players. You know, it's really, because I was there, you know, I was in College Park at Maryland during those years as well. It was the best five and a half years of my life. I enjoyed all my time in College Park, and they were during their years and really just a few years before you got there. And, you know, people should read this book because there was so much that came out of, as Lefty would call him Leonard, out of Leonard's life, you know, afterwards and after his passing. And people like you were so impacted. He inspired so many.

You were younger than Len. What about him as a player and as a person inspired you the most? You touched upon a great point, and so that's why we thought it was important for me and Tony to be a part of this. Tony, there's two different perspectives here. Tony being a teammate of his ain't going through that and me being a high school recruit trying to decide what I wanted to do

as far as college was concerned and the decisions I wanted to make. I knew how important it would be and so, you know, it was devastating to me. Lynn Bonds was a superhero in my eyes and we have a quote from Gary Williams he did out forward and Lefty and Coach Wade.

And one thing that Lefty said that really stuck with me is that one of his quotes was one mistake can't wipe out a life of excellence, you know. And, man, that kind of inspired. That was kind of the purpose of this book to be able to just talk about his impact. He had such a positive impact on us. And we just felt like the one narrative of the circumstances surrounding itself. was not justice to who he was and the impact that he had. And also, you know, you look at LeBron, he just made a statement a few months ago about a superhero.

If a superhero gets knocked down, he's still a superhero, you know, and that's what Lynn was to me. He was a superhero and remained that. And I just wanted to talk about, man, something like that happening to such an idol of mine and what it did to me and how it impacted me for the rest of my life. life, how it impacted my decision on coming to the University of Maryland and all of those things. You know, every once in a while, if you just are on YouTube, you can find a lot of those games, you know, that Lenny played, and they're all there, like the full games as they were broadcast, and I'll find myself sometimes real late at night, you know, watching a Maryland Carolina game or

a Maryland Duke game or, you know, some of the big games he had. And I've had this conversation so many times on either the radio show or the podcast in recent years about the kind of players that you could take from their era and put into this era and they would look and they would totally fit in and they would still be dominant. And when you go back and you watch Leonard play in those years and you watch the way he exploded to the rim and dunk so hard that the ball literally would drill a hole in the floor coming through it. And his jump-shunds, shot was so pure. And you see some of that stuff and it's like he's one of those guys. You could take him and put him into this NBA. And even though, you know what, he was 6-8 and his weight, Walt,

wasn't LeBron's weight. You know, he was, he's 195-200, somewhere around there probably. But the athleticism would totally translate to today, wouldn't it? Absolutely, it would. I mean, and in those days, it wasn't a three-point line. You'll see that he could shoot from that range, but he was only getting two for it. You know, so he had range. He could take you on the post. I saw footage one time one guy was guarding the inbounder or the guy trying to feed the post. And the other four guys were guarding Lynn, and he still scored on him.

So, I mean, that's how much of an athlete he was. He would get up so high on his jump shot. It was just the prettiest thing you would ever see. And it stood out. It stood out. And so it made you just take notice of him over everyone else on the court. And so there's no question in my mind. He would have been a dominant player, probably even more,

because the only, the only section touch that he needed was to be able to be a little bit more of a ball hammer. Exactly. He could get two to three dribbles and get whatever shot he wanted in a Mayer-Range type of situation. but if he could handle a little bit better, man, he would have just been, it would have been no way to stop him. So it's no question in my mind that would have taken place at the NBA level. And, you know, history would have been made. Whenever in all of us who, you know, live through the bias era, we've all had those conversations about him so many times over the years. I always think that Lenny was more Dominique Wilkins than he was Michael Jordan, that he was.

and to your point, and it's the right one, and people won't remember that, but he was not a strong ball handler, you know, in college. It could have improved, but he was not a strong ball handler. He wasn't Mike where he would, you know, from 25 feet from the basket, take you off the dribble all the way to the rim. I always felt like he was more Dominique Wilkins than he was more Michael Jordan. It's funny that you say that. you've seen guys that come through the ranks that remind you of, you know,

Michael Jordan or even Larry Bird or Dominique Wilkins and all of those players. But I cannot think of one player that I've ever seen that I say, oh, man, that guy reminds me of Len Byers. You know, just the athleticism, the way he played around the basket, and the way he could shoot the ball from the outside, the way he defended, the competitiveness. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's just, I can't recall of any player that I've ever seen that reminded me of him.

I think that's a testament to his greatness, the uniqueness and the things that he brought to the table. I mean, you know, you could think of all of the greats, the guys that remind you of many, many greats. But I just can't think of anyone that remind me a limb bias. So I think he stands alone and respecting the skills that he brought to the table and the impact that he had in the game. You know, you mentioned the competitiveness. I mean, he was a badass on the court. He was a true killer on the court. I mean, we all remember some of those,

but the all-timer was against Olden Polynees, who came in here. I think it may have been senior night or it may have been the year before, and he took a shot that Polonese put up and threw it into the fourth row and screamed, give me that in the middle of it. I had the pleasure of playing with old. Napoleon in Sacramento so bad. I used to let him have it about that many, many times. Yeah. I mean, when you had a nice, long, very productive, a really good NBA career. Did you find as a Maryland guy that people were interested in Bias' career,

those that didn't see it up close? Oh, yeah. Players all, they all knew about Lent Bias and wondered how good he would be. I mean, it's debated to this day. Would he have been as good or even better than Michael Jordan. You know, all of us in the NBA wondered about that and was enamored by his skill set and how great he was. So, yeah, that was circulate through the NBA often. It's too bad he didn't have an opportunity to get to, in college, I'm talking about, to go a bit deeper.

They went to two sweet 16s. They lost to Villanova on maybe his worst night of his course. career. And that was the year Villanova won the whole thing. I think Lenny went like two for 16 from the floor. And they only lost by a point to Villanova. And that could have been a year that they made it further. They lost to Illinois by a point or two in the Sweet 16. That was a chance. And then his final game was against UNLV in the second round of the tournament. And they were up eight or ten in the second half and couldn't hold on and lost a close game there too. But it would have been awesome to see him in a final four. Lefty two, you know, for that matter. Are you still coaching? Are you coaching

these days or not? I'm not doing it anymore, and you and I had a couple of really good battles. Yeah, absolutely, man. No, I don't coach. I coach my little son, the little kids, and a little recreation league around here. But, no, I stopped coaching at the high school level. My middle son is in high school at St. Andrews had, so I was missing so many of the this game. So, you know, I wanted to take some time away to be able to watch him play before he goes to college, often to Boston College. So I wanted to make sure I got to see his singing. So is he headed to BC to play? Yes. And he's a senior at St. Andrews this year? Yes. That's awesome. That's great. What about your older son? Is he playing?

No, no, he doesn't play anymore. He gave it up, yeah. All right, well, I'm sure people in Montgomery County are glad you're not on the sidelines right now. It makes it easier for everybody else. But you'll probably get back to it once, although you're going to want to go to BC for all those games now. Yeah, you never know. We've seen how we can work out the schedule, man. So I might be back on the scene. You never know.

All right. Enjoy the rest of this season. I'm listening every game to you, Johnny and Naki. It's a great listen. Walt Naki provides such great, you know, analysis of Maryland. We have a lot of fun with it then, so I enjoy working with those guys. But, yeah, you can get access to the books. Oh, yeah, tell everybody.

Yeah, you can get access to autograph copies of the book through Lessons from Lenny.com, or you can get it wherever books are available. You can get access wherever books are available. But the autograph version of the books are available at Lessons from Lenny.com. Awesome. And you can also just follow Waltz. on Twitter at Walt the Wizard 42, and he's got information on his Twitter account about how to get the book. But it looks like a great read.

I wish you guys the best of luck with it. It's always great to catch up. Talk to you soon. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you so much, Cam. I love Walt Williams. He is such an awesome guy, and he really, really knows basketball.

He is a great analyst. Tim and Naki really, and Johnny, the three of them together, but his analysts, Naki and Walt, just really, really understand the game as both, you know, ex-players and ex-coaches. But Walt as a recent coach, you know, high school coach in the area. Great guy. I wish them the best with the book. Ferrisch Chrysler Dodge Jeep. If you're thinking about something new, give them a shot. They're in Fairfax, right there in the heart of Fairfax, in Fairfax Circle.

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I wanted to get to a couple of other things real quickly. Then we'll bring in Andy for his weekly visit. Tomorrow is actually the 27-year anniversary of the Redskins' last Super Bowl win over Buffalo in Minneapolis. I wanted to get to Tiger and a couple of other things real quickly before we bring Andy in to talk about the 27-year anniversary of the Redskins' last Super Bowl win. Yes, 27 years since they beat the bills in Minneapolis. I want to start with Tiger real quickly. yesterday a two under 70 at Torrey Pines. Now, the Torrey Pines tournament is played on two courses, the north and the south course.

The south course is the difficult course, which is the course that Tiger played yesterday, and he shot two under. The north course, much easier. How much easier? The north course, the aggregate under par score was 203 strokes under par. The south course, which is what Tiger played, was an aggregate. 29 strokes under par. He gets to play the easy one today, the North Course, where I would expect him to go somewhat low. Who knows what he'll shoot today, but he's playing the easier of the two, and he shot two under, which was the second best score on the South Course yesterday. Man, does it

look beautiful at Torrey Pines? That is one of the most spectacular looking places on television for a golf tournament or sporting event. What is it about January and February when you're on the East Coast? And whether it's the Rose Bowl on New Year's Day or it's golf in January in Hawaii or in California where it just looks so appealing. Wanted to mention the comments made by Ben Watson, the retiring tight end of the New Orleans Saints. He sent out a tweet yesterday.

that read as follows. It was for Commissioner Goodell, for Commissioner Roger Goodell. He wrote, Commissioner Goodell, we all realize that football is an imperfect game, played, coached, and deficient by imperfect people. What occurred last Sunday in New Orleans, though, was outside of that expected and accepted norm. Your continued silence on this matter

is unbecoming of the position you hold, detrimental to the integrity of the game and disrespectful and dismissive to football fans everywhere. From the locker room to Park Avenue, accountability is what makes our league great. Lead by example, we are waiting. That was Benjamin Watson after last week's missed call on Roby Coleman, the missed pass interference call. Look, I can only speak for myself, but I'm not waiting for the commissioner to say anything about this. not waiting at all. It is not, to me, unbecoming that we haven't heard Roger Goodell speak out on a bad and controversial official's call. It's not. It's not detrimental to the integrity of the

game, in my opinion, and it's not disrespectful or dismissive of football fans everywhere. I'm a football fan, and I'm not waiting for a league apology. Now, if I'm a Saints fan, I'm waiting for a lot more. Of course, it's the emotion of your team losing in in what seems to be in the moment the most unfair way possible. But it's not that much different, as I pointed out over the weekend, to the way Buffalo Bill's fans must have felt when they were eliminated from the playoffs with a forward pass on the Music City miracle kickoff return. It's not any different than Minnesota fans felt when Drew Pearson took Nate right,

threw him to the side, caught the Hail Mary from Roger Stawback, and carried it into the end zone to beat him 1714, on a game that Minnesota basically had won and would have put them one step away from the Super Bowl. It's not the way New England Patriots fans felt in 1976 when Ray Hamilton was called for roughing the passer on what was the critical play on a drive that led to a Raiders win, which ultimately pushed the Raiders to a Super Bowl victory

over the Minnesota Vikings in January of 1977. They would not have survived that playoff game if not for one of the worst roughing the passer penalties you'll ever see. And that was in a day and age in which you were literally allowed to hit the quarterback as hard as you want and anywhere you wanted to hit the quarterback. But it was a Stabler's arm was still in motion when he was hit by Hamilton. You can find that play on YouTube. It was a call that was in the day by Patriot fans called Criminal.

It was so bad. went through the 49ers calls that went against them in the 84 championship game. This is part of the league's, you know, legend and lore and history, these games that are decided by controversial calls. Sunday's call was horrific. It was terrible. It was a missed blown call of epic proportions. It was, but it wasn't unique. It wasn't unique. And it's not, it's not incumbent upon the commissioner. in my view, to speak out on this. As Ben Watson wrote at the beginning of his tweet, football is an imperfect game, played, coached, and deficient by imperfect people.

And that's what at times makes it so great and so memorable. It does. Anyway, no football this weekend. First weekend since early August without football, although I guess we do have the Pro Bowl. which I have zero interest in watching. I don't even call that football, although really it's no different than preseason football, I guess.

So if I'm saying no football this weekend for the first time since the beginning of August, it's no different than the football that we got in August for the most part. But we were anticipating the season to come. It'll be back before we know it. All right, real quickly, launch workplaces in Bethesda. Give them a shot. if you're thinking about need, you know, a desk or a small office.

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Call today for an exclusive free two-day trial. 240, 86714. That's 240, 86714. Mention my name, and you'll get an exclusive free two-day trial. launchworkplaces.com for all of their locations around town. All right, let's bring in Andy Poland for his weekly Friday visit here on the podcast. You texted me a day or two ago, and you said, I want to do something on the Redskins Super Bowl,

which it's the 27-year anniversary of it on Saturday. You really are much better at thinking and remembering all of these anniversary dates. Once you say them, I remember them. And as you know, I remember a lot of things about it. But you've always, going back to the radio shows, you've always thought about, you know, anniversary dates. And it creates a great topic for whatever day you're doing the show on. So this one's really good because it is the last time. And it's so long ago now.

And I actually went to that Super Bowl in Minneapolis with my now wife. We were dating at the time, and I took her to the Super Bowl. Well, here's how long ago it was for me. I went to a Super Bowl party hosted by Richard Neer, who I was then working with at WFAN, and we took our six-month-old son, Jeremy, to watch this Super Bowl game. Did you really? You took Jeremy. Yeah, he was in a little baby thing, and, you know, Samantha was a little toddler,

so we went to other people brought their kids, you know, typical Super Bowl party. and I was thinking, oh, this is going to be great. As Jeremy grows up, we're going to be watching these, and someday we may go to them together, and here it is 27 years later, and he's part of a lost generation as are your kids. And I'm thinking about this game, and looking back on it, for me,

it's relatively recent history, but it would be like when you and I became Redskin fans in the 70s and hearing people talk about Sammy Ball. We just couldn't relate to that, right? I often think of things that way, you know, 27 years ago and then going back to, you know, when we were much younger and thinking what 27 years previous to that meant, and it meant, you know, really old things, like really old things. Yeah.

Now, this wasn't quite, you know, the Patriots run, and this was really the end of it, but this had been their fourth Super Bowl appearance in nine years. They had won three of them. They had also lost along the way an NFC championship game to the Giants, which we thought at the time was a disastrous year. Now that would be celebrated as something spectacular. But that's kind of the way it was. And you look at that team and the way it's looked upon now, and I don't think we really recognized it at the time. We didn't. You're right.

You know, people who look at it say that may have been the best of all time. They scored 485 points to lead the league. They were the second best defensive team, 224 points given up. Chip Lohmiller scored 149 points. The Colts team for the year scored 143. I mean, they were a juggernaut. They weren't quite the offensive juggernaut of 83 when they had all those turnovers which set up, you know, the scoring.

But they pretty much did what they wanted. They lost the game to the Cowboys around Thanksgiving. And if they had won that, they really, I think, would have had a show. shot to go undefeated because the only other game they lost was at the end of the year to the Eagles when they were resting up everybody for the playoffs. Yeah, and that cowboy game, they went into, I think, 11 and O at the time. The Redskins were the story in sports because the Dolphins' 72 perfect season was in jeopardy. And they were, you know, they were, they were bludgeoning people. They were, they were a dominant team. And that cowboy game really came down to a Hail Mary at the

end of the first half, you know, an Aitman to Alvin Harper, Hail Mary, that ended up being the deciding play essentially in the game. They lost that game. And then to your point, if they had won that game, they would have played the Philadelphia game at the end of the year differently, where instead of playing, you know, primarily substitutes, because they were 14 and 1 and had already everything locked up, they would have potentially really gone for it. But it was, you know, we've had this discussion over the years, and you've had it with, you know, former Redskins players that we've worked with,

and I have as well. To me, it's never been a debate. This is the greatest Redskins team of all time, the 91 team. It's better than the 83 team. First of all, it won the Super Bowl and the 83 team didn't. But the 83 team, even with the turnover differential, was not a great defensive team. This one in 91 was a dominant defensive team.

to go with, you know, perhaps, you know, at that point, one of the best deep throw seasons in NFL history, you know, the season that Rippin had thrown the ball deep down field. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny, you look at touchdown numbers now. He had 28 that year, which, you know, seemed like a lot. That's run of the bill now when you got the guy like Mahomes, who's throwing 50. Right. But at the time, yes, those were big touchdown numbers.

And also, you've got to remember, the Redskins were primarily, a running team. They were a team that like to control the clock, like to run the football, and that would open things up with the big plays down the field. They had Gary Clark, who I think is the best guy they've ever had going over the middle and a really

clutch player. He caught a 30-yard touchdown pass in the Super Bowl to pretty much put it out of reach at 31 to 10. The other thing that's forgotten about the Super Bowl, this was the last year that they had instant replay before they put it away for about six or seven.

years and then brought it back, I believe, 1999 or 2000. And there was a call, Art Monk, his career at everything, except the Super Bowl touchdown catch, had a touchdown catch overturned by replay in this game. They still scored

37 points. It probably could have scored more if they wanted to. Yeah, I mean, the postseason, the one knock that the 91 Redskins get occasionally is that they did not have a difficult NFC post- season to go through. You know, Atlanta at home, Detroit, with, you know, with the run and shoot that

they ran was not a difficult opponent. They, you know, the seat cushion game was the Atlanta game, 24 to 7, and then it was 4110. And it just happened to have been one of those seasons where, you know, the NFC didn't have another real juggernaut team, you know, didn't have another really strong team. The Redskins were just so dominant in that particular season. And, you know, I think it was Philadelphia, I'm sorry, Dallas, that was Dallas's first playoff team with Troy Aitman and Jimmy Johnson. They got into the playoffs and they actually won a wild card game in Chicago before getting blown out at Detroit. So they were only a game away from facing the Redskins in the NFC title game. Had they gone to Detroit and won.

And a lot of people in the moment thought the Cowboys would go to Detroit and win that playoff game. But they got blown out. And the Redskins had a relatively easy field to go through. The 49ers weren't in the playoffs that year. The Bears were, but it wasn't the strong bear team. And the Eagles weren't in the playoffs that year. Well, that's the one thing I did want to mention because I think it was the first game

of the year. Randall Cunningham hurt his knee. and was out for the year. And although the Redskins finished second in the league in defense, Philadelphia was first. So Philadelphia, with that defense and Randall Cunningham, I don't know if they would have had a better team than the Redskins, but I think they would have given them at least a couple of good battles and maybe possibly met him again in the playoffs. And that was Cotite year number one, right?

Because the year before was when we put Buddy Ryan to rest, basically. going in there in the body bag revenge game and that was it for buddy right in Philadelphia and that was the year prior and really that year prior was the beginning of what we saw in 91 you know what's amazing Andy is that and you sort of

started the conversation off this way if anyone had told me and you know on January 26th 1992 when I was leaving the metrodome after watching the Redskins win the Super Bowl that I would only get to see three playoff wins over the next 27 years. I would have said that that person was

insane. The Redskins, the 49ers, you know, those were the two best organizations in the sport and two of the best organizations in all of sports. And they've only won three playoff games since. Well, I mean, remember the following year, they really struggled offensively. And they got Rippin reported late. Yeah. Yeah, and they got into the playoffs, and they beat Minnesota, and they went to San Francisco, and actually... Had a chance.

Yeah, they had a shot there, and the fumbled between Rippin and Mitchell, it's debated over and over whose fault it was, but that really was kind of the last straw. But then Gibbs retired in March of 93, and when Richie Pettibone took over, he said, it's going to be business as usual, meaning not that past season, but the seasons before that. everybody believe that. Of course. They open up the season by beating the Cowboys 35 to 16, and you go, oh, okay, now we got a guy

who can really open things up, and he's a defensive genius, and, you know, it's going to be just like old times, and then they fell to 4 and 12. I remember watching, I think George Michael had Petibone as his weekly show guest, or maybe it was even called the Richie Petibone show at the time, and about six or seven games into the season, somebody wrote in a letter and said, well, what happens if the Redskins finish 8 and 8? And Richie Pettibone says, I assure you, ma'am, that the Redskins won't finish there. They want to 4 and 12.

It was unthinkable that they would bottom out. And then once they did and Norv Turner took over, you thought, okay, here's a good young coach. They're going to rebuild and they're going to be back to where they were in two or three years. Never happened. Never happened. You know, we've jumped ahead from the 91 season, but it's interesting because really that Dallas game, Richie Pettibone's first game is a head coach, and they blew out Dallas on a Monday night, and Dallas was the defending champ. You know, the Redskins had won in 91, and then in the 92 season,

where the Redskins were close to beating the 49ers in the divisional playoff game, and they would have gone to Dallas the following week for the NFC title game. Instead, Dallas went out to Candlestick and beat the 49ers and then beat the Bills in the Super Bowl for the first of their big run in the 90s. But when they opened up the 93 season with Richie and blowing out the defending champs. Brian Mitchell had a massive game. It was, you know, the feeling in that moment was, all right, it's going to be our year this year. And Rippin got hurt in week two, if I recall, against the Cardinals. And they, you know, they were, you know, Carrie Conklin and they had, you know, Rich Gannon played that year, you know, at quarterback for the Redskins. And so it was, the season fell apart. And it's never been, you know,

the same since. Never. In terms of great organization, threat to win the Super Bowl, that Dallas Monday Night game in 93, that was the end. That was the end for 27 years. We're still not back.

Well, I mean, there have been some... There have been moments, yeah. Yeah, like 1996, they start out 7 and 1. And they missed the playoffs at 9 and 7. following year, Gus Verrett bangs his head into the wall, 8, 7, and 1, and they missed the playoffs.

And then, you know, the 99 team looked like, okay, you know, they'd hit their stride. Brad Johnson had a great year. And then they went for it in 2000. They had cap room. They had draft picks. And Danny blew it out with Ian Vinny,

spent it all. They went on a wild spending spree. And, you know, things have never really gotten back together. I guess the great hope was the Gibbs years. The Gibbs was going to, to be back to the old Gibbs, but the old Gibbs never came back, you know? Yeah, it was, yeah, three playoff wins and, and none of them in a championship game. All of them in the wild card,

all of them in the wild card round in 27 years. Back to, you know, the 27-year anniversary tomorrow of their win over Buffalo. The story that everybody remembers from that leading up to the game was what Bill's defensive line coach Chuck Dickerson had said about the Redskins offensive line, the hogs. You know, he called Joe Jacoby a Neanderthal and said, you know, he probably kicks dogs in his neighborhood, said that Jim Lachey's got bad breath and basically just ridiculed and mocked the Redskins offensive line. And that, you know, even Gibbs said many years later, that really angered him, you know,

and it was true bulletin board material. And they made them pay, man. They beat the, you know what, out of Buffalo. I mean, that final score of 37 to 24 is not reflective of the Redskins were up 37 to 3 in that game, I think. 37 to 10, 37.10? 37, yeah. Yeah, 37, 10. Yeah, 370.

They got two field goals in the fourth quarter, and they got two late touchdowns. But it was 24-0 nothing at halftime, I think. Something like that. 17 nothing at the half. Okay. And then, yes, and then they did make it 24-0-0 in the third quarter. But what you're talking about with the Chuck Dickerson comments, this is the pre-Utube generation. And I'm told that Gibbs got a copy of the tape that was shown on local television in Buffalo of Dickerson saying those things and showed it to the team.

So it was more than just quoting him. It was the actual tape, which fired him, which they really didn't need. I mean, they were a better team than Buffalo. and I think the bills have said over the years of the four Super Bowls they lost, the Redskins were the best opponent they played. Oh, yes, they have said that. They have said that many times. That's a great point.

I mean, because they, you know, they had the four in a row. The Giants loss and then the loss to the Redskins and then the back-to-back losses to the Cowboys. And all those bills that played in those four games all say the Redskins were their toughest opponent of the four. And when you, I mean, the Cowboys crushed them the following year. 52 to 17 or something like that. And then the game the year after that was the Atlanta game, the ice bowl outside game that was a little bit closer. And of course, you know, the one that they had a chance to win

was against the Giants, if not for the Miss Field Goal at the end. Anyway, well, you know, long time ago. Long time ago. You have three sons. I mean, when you tell them this stuff, you know, it's the way we used to think about guys who wore leather, Yeah. So far in the past.

You just, and anybody who's grown up as a Redskin fan in the last 25, 30 years, looks at this organization and goes, there goes Bruce Allen lying again. Oh, boy, there goes more bungling. And we used to think of this team as being smarter than everybody else. I know. Like, they had it all figured out. And they were drafting guys like Monty Coleman in the late rounds and signing undrafted free agents like Joe Jacoby.

And Bobby Betherd was trading future number ones for second. rounders that year who became, I mean, they had it all figured out. They did everything right. And now they do just the opposite. Everything wrong. Well, you know, the 27-year thing is you're older than I am by a little bit. And so you remember the Redskins teams of the 60s. I don't. My first recollection are George Allen's teams in the early 70s. And, you know, that was the return of winning football to Washington. You know, I know Vince Lombardi had in his one year. the 7-5-and-2 winning season. But I'm talking about playoffs and contending. And somebody back then would have said, yeah, I remember when the Redskins used to compete for championships. It was in,

it was 27 years ago in the 40s. You know, when the war was going on. So yeah, I mean, it's all, and my kids don't get it. I mean, I've said to them before, you know, you don't understand. They were, they weren't a dynasty like the Patriots. The 49ers were, were really more of the dynasty. They had in aggregate numbers more over a longer period of time in the 80s and 90s. But the Redskins were the second best franchise of that era. They were in four Super Bowls in 10 seasons and won three of them. That's a pretty damn good run. And if you go back to George Allen arriving in 71 from 71 through 92, so call it a 21 year stretch, the Redskins were one of the top three or four franchises in the sport. They were.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just crazy to think about a year where you either make the NFC championship game or lose in the Super Bowl and you go, oh, we're really disappointed. And, you know, if you look at growing up in New England, let's say a kid who's grown up in a Patriots fan, I mean, every other year, on average, they have been to a Super Bowl. In the last 18 years, it's remarkable. And that's kind of the way. Yeah. We're living through the greatest dynasty ever, but yes. Yeah, and so we had here for a nine-year period where they're appearing in four Super Bowls and five NFC championship games something similar for a more compressed period of time.

And there were kids who became football fans at age 12 and aged into adults thinking the redskins are always good. They've always been great, you know? Look, I mean, the way you just said something, and I remember feeling this way. You know, when they, every year, it wasn't, during that Gibbs stretch, it wasn't whether or not you were going to be in the postseason. That was almost a given. The question was whether or not this team this year was capable of winning it all. Because that was the conversation in the years of 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92.

It was, all right, who's better than us? The conversation would not start with, are we? better than anybody else in the NFC? It would start with, name the one or two teams that are better than us. Is there anybody that's better than us this year, or should we win the Super Bowl this year? That was the conversation. On the way to the Super Bowl, who could trip up? Yeah, who could trip us up this year?

Who were the one or San Francisco, I mean, for the 49ers, the Bears, yeah, we sort of own the Bears and the playoffs. That's what it was every year. And really the one team that Gibbs just always had an issue with, it was the Giants. You know, it was Parcells and the giants. That was the, that was the one puzzle Gibbs had a, had a difficult time solving there from about, what, 86 through 90, you know? Well, I mean, his first challenge as a coach in his first year with the Redskins was Lawrence Taylor. Yes. And that's, that's why he invented the H-Back. And Doc Walker, who signed here as a free agent the year before,

and saw Gibbs come in from San Diego, thought he was going to become Kellynne Winslow. And in fact, he became basically a blocker, a very good blocker, but that's how things changed. And so in solving Lawrence Taylor, that sort of launched his whole career as an offensive genius. Yeah.

All right. Thanks for bringing it up. Thank you. Yeah. Good times. Good times. We enjoy doing this. I don't know how many other people do, but, you know, it is a key anniversary date 27 years ago tomorrow.

The Redskins won the Super Bowl. All right, have a good weekend. I'll talk to you next week. You too. Andy Poland, everybody. All right, good talking to Andy and remembering how long ago that Super Bowl was and how old we all have become, those of us that remember that particular day. I'll remember one thing more than any other, because I did go to that Super Bowl in Minneapolis.

The temperature never got above 10 degrees Fahrenheit that entire weekend. But it was beautiful. And it was an easy city despite the cold to get around in. And still is today. Minneapolis is actually one of those underrated cities. You don't have to deal with the cold, although it's hard to avoid it. But if you're downtown, they've got these skyways that you can walk through to avoid the outside. If you are listening to the podcast and you haven't subscribed yet,

it's really good for us. It makes it easier for us from a selling standpoint, an advertising standpoint, to talk about subscribers and number of guaranteed episode downloads. It doesn't cost you a thing to subscribe. You don't have to give up any information.

But if you have a chance and you feel like doing that, that would really help us. And if you rate it to review it and rate it, that really helps as well. No football really, as I mentioned, but what do we have this weekend? The Wizards play tonight, right? And they play the magic tonight on the road.

Maryland tomorrow and Madison Square Garden, they gave up a home game to play Illinois in the garden. They need that game. You know, they've got Illinois and Northwestern the next two games tomorrow, then Tuesday night, both at home to get to potentially 9 and 2 in the league. And if they win tomorrow, they're not going to. drop in the rankings having lost only to Michigan State this week, especially given what Michigan State did last night on the road at Iowa, a ranked team. They blew out Iowa with a 24-2 run in the second half. Michigan State is really, really good. And more likely than not, even

though they still have their two games with Michigan to go, I find it really difficult to believe that Michigan State isn't going to win the Big Ten regular season. They don't have to play Maryland again. They've got to play at Purdue. They've got the two games with Michigan. That's it. I think they might go to Wisconsin. They're going to lose once or twice in a 20 game schedule, which is what the Big Ten plays now.

But I think Maryland's got a really good chance to finish in the top three or four, and maybe as high as two. You know, the two games they have with Michigan will probably, you know, determine that. But the games that they are supposed to win, they'll be a favorite tomorrow. I haven't looked at it yet. I don't even know if it's out, but I bet they're a seven, eight-point favorite tomorrow, maybe higher against Illinois on a neutral floor. And then they've got Northwestern here on Tuesday night.

They'll be favored to win that game. They've got a chance. They've got a really good chance over these final 11 Big Ten games. If they can get seven of them, eight of them, finish 14 and 5 in the Big Ten, top three, top four finish, they're going to be a top four seed. in a region when we get to March. And that would put them in that position of being favored to go to the Sweet 16.

Anyway, I'll be watching that tomorrow at noon. It was great to catch up with Walt Williams. He is one of my favorite people. And by the book, if you're a Maryland basketball fan, if you're a basketball fan in general, or if you want to know the impact that Len Bias had, both during his life and then afterwards, go read Walt and Tony Massenberg's book.

you can get it anywhere. But just go to his Twitter page, as I mentioned earlier, and he's got links to being able to purchase it right there. Thanks to Corbyn. Did a great job today producing the show. Aaron will be back, I think, for part of next week. Have a great weekend, everybody.