The Kevin Sheehan Show - Redskins-Cowboys: Still A Rivalry?

Episode Date: September 12, 2019

Kevin and Thom talk a ton of Redskins starting with the Derrius Guice injury news, DeAngelo Hall's latest thoughts on the Trent Williams situation, and a discussion about whether or not Redskins-Cowboys is still a rivalry. Thom weighed in on the Antonio Brown situation and then made his pick on Skins-Cowboys. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yeah, Tommy's here by phone, so he's not here. He's joining us by phone. Aaron is here. It's a Thursday. We'll get Tommy's Redskins Cowboys pick before the end of the show. We're going to get to Antonio Brown. Tommy's got some thoughts on that. But there's actually a lot of news here this morning, even since. I went off the air on the radio show. By the way, today, Tommy, had a great conversation with Ray Knight. Phenomenal conversation. I really like him, and he's going to be on the radio show every Thursday at 9 o'clock until the end of the season. Also had Brad Sham on the show. He's great. And then DeAngelo Hall was on the show and actually said some very interesting things,

which we'll get to as well. But the news, the Redskins news here this morning, is that Darius Geyer, according to J.P. Finley, more likely than not is going to end up having surgeries. He's down in Florida visiting with old Dr. Beanie Andrews, James Andrews, for a second opinion. And JP reported earlier this morning that it's more likely than not that he's going to opt for surgery, which would have him out for two months to repair the torn meniscus. therefore I was thinking about this at the very end of the show today that I wanted to basically talk more in depth with you on and that is can you imagine if the reports were true about Jay Gruden wanting to release Adrian Peterson on Cut Down Day

if he had cut Adrian Peterson and then a week later had no Darius Geis. Well he would have gone to his guy Samaday Pryan. Samage, I guess, would have made the team instead of... Yeah. But, you know, at that point, does that become almost, you know, an event where... Put it this way. The fan base was already ridiculously upset with him earlier this week for deactivating Adrian Peterson, which we talked about on Tuesday in more detail.

Can you imagine if Peterson weren't on the team and we all thought that it was Jay who cut him? and you got no geis for two months and you got Somaget P. Rine against the Cowboys on Sunday. He would have been crucified. Maybe fired. Maybe, maybe fired. If it had been his decision,

because remember, I think Jason said on the junkies that it was what Gruden wanted to do but the organization didn't want to do it. You know, you mentioned how angry at a fan base was and you thought it maybe was an overreaction about benching Adrian Peterson for game one. I mean, you know, it really hit me how it doesn't take much these days for this Redskins fan base just to get blind with rage.

It really doesn't. I mean, you know, there were a lot of things coming out of that Philly game that you should feel good about if you're a Redskins fan. But the fan base is beyond that. They're just consumed with rage. And the Redskins feed that rage on a regular basis. They give them reason to be angry. Sometimes it's an overreaction.

Sometimes it's not. But this fan base is a powder keg, whatever's left of it, is sort of a mini powder keg that one little thing and they blow up. And again, I mean, they're not talking about Case Keenum and the day he had and the offensive play calling in the first half, everyone's talking about Adrian Peterson. Yeah, I mean, what's funny about what you said is that, you know, it would actually benefit the organization to know that a significant percentage of people

were still getting angry rather than saying, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't even know what the story is because they've checked out. I have friends that didn't even watch Sunday that were out doing other things. I don't think. The rating, by the way, just as an aside, because it just made me think of it, was a 19 locally, not great at all, not that much different from the opener last year at Arizona. Philly, as an example, did a 30.5 locally, and that's really what the Redskins used to do for an opening game, local television rating, high 20s, low 30s, somewhere in that range, and the Redskins are doing a 19 to Philadelphia is, you know, 30.

But what, so, you know, it's, it was an overreaction from my standpoint because I had all these takeaways from the game the other day that were actually encouraging and discouraging the defense and the encouraging part was the offense. But I do think, I mean, I want to be clear on this because, you know, and I know you understand this, some people on Twitter don't. I did not think Jay Gruden made the right decision. I just had a problem with Morgan Moses and other players taking it upon themselves to go public with their feelings and suggests that this was impacting the preparation for the game because the locker room was upset.

And then in Morgan Moses's specific case saying it was a slap in the face, I'm going to go talk to Jay about it. You know, what Jay should be saying to Morgan Moses is stop holding so much. You focus on doing your job. This is a coach's decision, which I agree with. But I still think he made the mistake. I mean, you know, this was one of those things. You've got to take the whole thing into consideration. Like, why, as I told you the other day, Doc had mentioned to me, and I think it was the best part of them all.

Why would you put Geis into that position of being in his first game feeling like, wow, they benched? They scratched AP because of me, you know, and maybe he didn't feel that way, but you still potentially were taking the risk. But yeah, you're right. It's like there were all of these things that I would put on a list of the things that interested me or intrigued me coming out of that game, the offense, the offense being so much different and so much more capable than we thought going in. The defense really est the bed in the second half and is Minusky in trouble. What about the offensive line? It did pretty well without Trent Williams over the most part. You know, these are the kinds of things that were I was

thinking about after the game. That's not what everybody was thinking about because to your point, and I took an hour's worth of calls on this on Tuesday. People just wanted to talk about Adrian Peterson. And to me, Tommy, what it was, it was this path or this reason to eviscerate Jay Gruden as if they just found out that he was a subpar coach. Because it wasn't this feeling of Adrian Peterson was wrong. It was more of anger towards Jay Gruden. And one of the reasons, and I'll cut it off after this and let you respond is that we're not invested in Adrian Peterson. He was great last year. I'm excited about him playing the way he played last year. Minnesota fans are invested in Peterson. If Peterson had been drafted and had his Hall of Fame career here, then on Monday, I would have been really upset that

they did that to Adrian Peterson. But I wasn't. Well, I think you're right. Look, I think you have a situation where fans are angry now almost all the time. I mean, The anger is the number one passion, I think, among Redskins fans. And they're angry at Bruce Allen. They're angry at Dan Snyder. They're angry at Jake Rudin. They're angry at Case Keenom because the rookie isn't starting. Dwayne Haskins that everybody wants to see.

They're just angry at everybody. And I think this is the – I mean, they really reached the end of the rope. and it won't take much to, you know, like this is one Adrian Peterson move for people to say, they want Jay Gruden fired yesterday because he didn't play Adrian Peterson. And I don't see it getting better. I don't see an organization capable of turning that around. Yeah, it's also just so funny because the anger towards Jay Gruden probably for Dan and Bruce is just a nice break here. because it's like for whatever reason, the anger over the Adrian Peterson thing is directed towards Jay when, hello, if you haven't been paying attention, no coach leaves here with his reputation enhanced after he's gone.

Always, every single time the coach that comes here and leaves has his reputation tarnished. This is not, you know, Jay Gruden hasn't been the primary problem here. I think he's an average to subpar coach, and I wanted him fired at the end of last year, but I wanted Bruce Allen gone even more. Like, I want Dan Snyder to sell the team more than anything else, you know, but that's not a reality. But it's funny how, you know, over this Adrian Peterson thing and second half adjustments, I'm putting in air quotes, because I love when people talk about the lack of second half adjustments, and then they have no, you know, description or explanation.

Yeah, they can't define them. But the bottom line is that Jay Gruden's going to end up being no different than the other coaches that have been here. He will leave here a lesser man with a lesser reputation than when he arrived. It's just a lock. In fact, I think you could make the case that we're starting to see. And I give Jay Gruden credit because he stood up longer than some others. I mean, Mike Shanahan at the end was sort of like Captain Quig in the Kane Mutiny, you know. And I remember one line from Mike Shanahan, one of his last press conferences, where he said,

I'm telling you the truth, which you normally don't do, you know. And Jim Thorne, we saw it was a beaten man, was an absolutely beaten, broken man in just two years he was here. So Jay has held up longer to most. but his comments after the game about running the ball 55 times in the eye formation in response to the aging Peterson questions. And then yesterday he sort of snapped when asked about Jordan's leading concussion protocol. And I just think, I mean, and he's been a good soldier. He has been their whipping boy to stand out there and answer questions first about Rumin Foster,

than about Trent Williams and the medical staff. And I feel a little sorry for him because I think he's done fairly well. But imagine going to Redskins Park every day to do your job, knowing that you have to fight the people you work with. You have to fight them. You know, first of all, let's play with the quote that you just talked about. because there was definitely some frustration from Jay when he was asked yesterday about Jordan Reed's concussion. For Jordan, is he technically still in the protocol at this point?

I've explained this 3,000 times, okay? They're never really totally out of the protocol. They just continue to get more work and practice. He's a lot of team today, which is good. He just got to continue to get more reps and then we'll continue to monitor how he's feeling afterwards. So you hear the frustration in his voice there. And I talked about this earlier today. but let me give you just a little bit of some informed insight right now,

and Jay Gruden's state of mind, if I might. Okay. He's aggravated by a lot of things right now, and that bite, that sound bite on Jordan Reed is a reflection of it. The one that he had that you just referred to about Adrian Peterson, the 55 times out of the I formation is another. The frustration that he really, you know, I thought, described about the defensive performance in the second half and put it sort of on the coaches

and said it can't happen again. You know, and the funny thing, he's aggravated right now by a lot of things, all right? Yeah. And some would say, who gives us shit? He is aggravating us. He needs to go. But, you know, the truth of the matter is he's not a fan right now of being questioned about his decisions regarding anything.

because he thinks he had and thought he had, you know, a real opportunity to go into Philadelphia, shock the world with an offense that he was confident would perform. The funny thing about that is that he did say on the coaches show that he does with Larry Michael on NBC4, which I watched on Saturday night. Yes, I do watch that, actually. He said, look, the offense is a big question mark. I understand that. And it could be, it could take some time. But I was told he felt really good about Case Keenham and McLorn in some of the things that they could do against the Eagles secondary.

So he really wanted that win. And up 17, nothing. There's a lot of frustration that he didn't get it. So he could basically shove all the Adrian Peterson deactivation talk and anything else right back in everybody's face and just say, are you guys kidding me? We just beat the Eagles in the opener as a 10-point underdog. shut the hell up.

So he really wanted that badly. And the reason he thinks he didn't get it is not anything that happened on offense. He's really, really concerned and frustrated that the defense let them down, which it did in the second half by not being able to get off the field. And in part, giving up touchdowns on third and ten that were, you know, simple, you know, secondary communication issues, which are the issues they had last year. So that frustrates him. The Adrian Peterson situation frustrates him because he's like, my God, you know, I did what I thought was in the best interest of the team to give us the best chance.

I think he made the wrong decision because he didn't consider a lot of the other things that were going to come out of this. But, yeah, he's frustrated right now. And by the way, Tommy, he and Bruce are simpatico on Geis. They both were the ones in the building that really thought they missed out on a. rookie of the year campaign last year, potentially with Geis, and with even more so, with Keenham being the quarterback this year, you know, a chance for him to really break out and prove them right about the pick. Like Jay really likes Geis too. And they wanted him on the field. They thought he had a chance to be the next young running back to make a big impact in the same way

Kareem Hunt and, you know, Alvin Kamara and Christian McCaffrey and Zeke Elliott and all these other young running backs have had all these, you know, big impacts in recent years. So he's disappointed about that now, too, and frustrated with that. So there is, Jay may be, you know, more likely than not, we could be watching Jay's final season unfold. I think we felt that way before the season. And maybe he's just going to say, F it, I'm doing it my way. I'm going down my way, throwing the football with my pass offense, with a quarterback that fits. I loved what you said to me the other day and what you said to Chad yesterday because it's so true.

If Case Keenham really is a better fit for Jay Gruden, what does that say about Bruce Allen trading for Alex Smith and then giving him the big contract extension? It just proves again what a boob he is and what a football novice and really what a subpar football evaluator he is. He may be other things that are fine in a football organization, but not as the least. trade maker. It's not what he does well. I mean, Alex Smith was clearly not a fit for Jay Gruden. I mean, that was so obvious right from the start. They may have been effective for a while in the offense that they were running with Alex Smith, but that wasn't what Jay Gruden wanted to do.

No, no. He didn't want Alex Smith to go out with the mindset of, I can't make a turnover, but it's okay to punt. Yeah, I know, but But now, okay, so he's got his quarterback now. Yep. But what they were, they were, look, they did a good job of it. I think the play calling had a lot to do with it. They didn't turn the ball over.

Keenham didn't throw any interceptions. He wasn't. Was he sacked? He sacked once? One time. I think he's one time. And I think the protection benefited from the play calling. He got rid of the ball quick.

Yeah. And, but, you know, I mean, I don't know if you're going to be able to count on that against Dallas. Yeah, I don't know either. Although I would think that Dallas can be, I think one of the ways to probably move the football in Dallas is to throw it as well. I mean, that's probably if they're flawed, they perhaps are flawed in their past defense.

By the way, I did want to mention, too, that JP did an interview with Adrian Peterson, the NBC sports partner of the Redskins, you know, gives JP the opportunity on a weekly basis to talk to somebody of import. That's how they treat, the Redskins treat their partners that way all the time. And NBC gets this interview every week. That was tongue placed firmly in cheek because the other partner, the radio station, they never give anybody to.

But whatever, I digress and nobody gives a shit about that. AP was really, really classy in that interview. And he said that he recognized, the situation on Sunday and how he was really important for him to take, to carry himself in a very positive way and not to mope and not to hang his head

but to be very positive because he had this young kid Geis who he likes in front of him and he didn't want the situation to be a bad one in the locker room. And that answer was just a first-rate answer from Peterson, especially if he actually did that, to recognize that was, you know, I give him a lot of credit.

But it was a smart answer, but he just may have watched things unfold on Sunday and said, you know what, I don't have to do or say anything. They're all going to come back to me. They're going to have to come crawling back to me. I think if you had two or three weeks of this, well, I think Adrian Peterson might be cut if they were running Geis for two or three weeks by that point. But remember, Adrian Peterson is broke and he needs money. And he needs so, I mean, he needs the ball to get paid.

Yeah. Well, you know, back to what started this conversation. Geis is hurt, potentially out two months, according to Finley, if he gets this surgery, which is, according to his sources, more likely than not. so it's a damn good thing they kept Adrian Peterson. And I'll tell you what, for Jay Gruden, because no offense to Somaget, P. Rhine, and how good he feels about Somaget,

because remember, when they cut him and kept Peterson, if you believe that he wanted to cut Peterson, one of the things that Jay said about P.Rine signing in Cincinnati is he said, Samajé is going to do real good in Cincinnati. Like, he made it a point to say he thinks Samaj has a chance to be a good back. But I can tell you this,

if you were going into the Dallas game Sunday with Samajip Run as your lead back, that would be problematic for the fans. I will say this too, Tommy, I'll be honest with you. Chris Thompson in a pinch, if you lose your starting first down back, I don't have a problem with him being the number one back. I like it when they use Chris as sort of a change of pace guy. Look at Darren Sprouls in the second half. He's not their first down back, but he carried most of their first down carries in the second half

and led him in rushing on Sunday. I actually think the Reds... I know, but look at Darren Sproul's injury history to last few years. I know. And Thompson, too. And the more you expose him to more than 15 touches a game, I think the risk for injury goes up significantly. The other thing with Geis real quickly is just the stories that are coming out.

Chris Thompson was on with Zab yesterday and essentially said that Geis was hurt early in that game. and he lied about it when he was asked about it and said he was fine and he was healthy. Clearly he wasn't, so he was compromised when he was in there, at least if you believe the timing of everything that he got hurt early in the game. But anyway, that's that. I wanted to mention one other thing before I ask you a question that's Redskins Cowboys related. And that is that DeAngel Hall was on with me today on the radio show. He was really good. And I asked him about Trent Williams, and I said, man, nobody's had more on the Trent situation than you.

You're the one that's been sort of his voice here in the market on your podcast here recently. And you're talking to him. And, you know, he got a little bit, you know, sort of clamped up a little bit. He's like, you know, the bottom line here is that, you know, I am talking to Trent and I don't have anything new. and he said, you know, Trent is, you know, Trent told me he would let me know when he decides on something, but there's nothing that's, you know, imminent. But what he did tell me, and we actually had a technical problem while we were doing the interview, and then I got him on the phone during the break, and he told me that Trent Williams,

more likely than not, is going to be back. Worst case would be at that deadline for the accrued season. You know, if you're familiar with, like, you have to be, I think there for the first, you have to play six full games to get credit for the season, so you're not starting with two years left on your deal next year. Right. So he thinks that's worst case. And he made it a point to say that neither of the sides are talking right now.

And he said if the team was making more of an effort to talk to him, then perhaps it would end sooner, which I thought was interesting as well. That is interesting. Aren't you a little bit surprised he isn't back this week? The other thing he said to me, he said, look, it's going to get to a point where he, you know, wants to make this point, you know, is implying, you know, about the medical. And he's not going to back off that point, but he wants to get the accrued season. He doesn't want to have to come back here next year with two years left on his deal. So I still hope, you know, the injury list.

from week one around the NFL did not include a left tackle or a major offensive lineman going down. There were a lot of other injuries, including the Jets. I don't know if you've been following this, but the Jets have had, you know, Sam Darnold's got mono. He's going to be out a week or two. Levion Bell apparently is going to get an MRI on his shoulder, and Quinn and Williams, the rookie from Alabama, has an ankle injury. And the Jets, you know, had some high hopes. And they had a 16-0 lead that they blew on Sunday. But anyway, that was the latest. on Trent from D. Hall. So here's the question I wanted to ask you.

You know Joe Gasharoff really well. Right? You know Joe. Yes, I do. Joe, NBC Sports Washington, Comcast Sportsnet for many years as a behind-the-scenes guy, a good friend of all of ours. Joe and I worked at Channel 5 together many, many, many years ago. And he tweeted out something last night that I thought was interesting, and I ended up having a conversation about it this morning

with callers and then with Brad Sham as well, the play-by-play voice of the Cowboys. Joe tweeted out, it's Dallas Week, yet it doesn't feel like it. Why? Because it's not a real rivalry anymore. Do you think the Redskins Cowboys is still a rivalry? Look, like I said on Chad show yesterday,

you can cut the tension of Cowboys Redskins Week with a small nail clipper. I mean, this is, it's really, it's really sad what it's come to at this point. I don't think it is a rivalry anymore. And I'll be real, you know what's interesting. Apparently, I didn't hear this, but Chad told me on the radio show that J.P. Finley was on Chad's show and said that, and pointed out how ticket sales are going really good for FedEx Field and suggested that the place is going to be,

well represented with Redskins fans. What do you think? I think the reason the prices are high and there are few tickets. Well, first of all, there aren't few tickets remaining. I can go to Stubhub right now and get a ticket to this game very easily, just so you know. He wasn't suggesting that there aren't tickets available, was he? No.

Yeah, because there are tickets available. But compared to where they were last year, they're pretty expensive. My logical answer to that would be there's only one reason that these tickets that are left on Stubhub and aftermarket sites are expensive, and that is because they realize that there's huge cowboy fan demand. That would be my answer, and that the tickets that have been sold have been sold primarily to cowboy fans. That would be the reasonable answer based on the empty seats that we saw, last year combined with the opposing fans filling the stadium on a regular basis, the biggest of the opposing fan base being Cowboys fans.

Well, the Eagle fan base was the biggest with respect to percentage of the crowd at FedEx Field. This finale against the Eagles was, you know, that was 80-20. Right. No, the finale by the end of the year, yeah. But here's what I would say to you. There's nothing that changed. between last year and this year, to make you think that Redskins fans are all going to sun flock to Ghost Townfield for the home opener coming after off a loss since last year,

when the home opener coming off a win, they threw 57,000. Well, actually, there is something. And probably 10,000. 10,000 of them were Colts fans. There's actually one big change. The big change is that the opponent is the Cowboys for the Home Opener, and the Cowboys fan is about as revved up for this season as they've been in a long, long time. So that's the other reason I would think that this is going to be a better than 50% cowboy crowd.

Now, with that said, Tommy, this is the game, the game on the schedule more than any other, that Redskin fans really do enjoy going to, the fans that are left, the fans that are, you know, 50-50 on the other games, not going to the other... This is the game they like to go to. Kevin, you've been saying this for years, and I think it's a dream. I think it's in your mind. I don't think it makes any difference. Well, last year's cowboy game, which the Redskins were what when they played the Cowboys,

it was week seven last year, and they were three and two, four and two, something like that. That crowd was the best Redskin crowd. of the year. Now, there were a lot of cowboy fans in the stadium that day, but that was easily the best crowd of the year in terms of attendance and in terms of, you know, it being a raucous environment. Now, there were a lot of cowboy fans per usual, but there were a lot of Redskine fans there, too, Tommy. I didn't go to the game last year. I just remember the follow-up conversation to the people that were there. Okay, well, I don't remember it that way, and I was at the game. We can go back and look at the attendance to see what it was like.

But I think this is a myth anymore with this fan base that they get revved up to show up for the Cowboys game. I think they think if they show up for the Cowboys game, they'll be humiliated to have to watch in person, all the Dallas fans around them. Okay, so you think it's not a rivalry anymore? Do you really believe that there's no rivalry? I mean, like it's disappeared completely? Well, no, I said, you know why? Go ahead. Yeah.

Take that step. Yeah, I think it had. You're out on a ledge on that. I think it had. So it's meaningless. This is, this, they might as well be playing the, uh, the lions or the 49ers on Sunday. Okay. That, it's not meaningless.

It's a vision rival. Okay. But, uh, on the, on the Dallas side, the only meaning to it is what kind of a beating that they can put on. On the Redskins, on the Redskins side, the only meaning is how much will we be embarrassed by the Cowboys on Sunday? Oh, God. There's your rivalry passion. All right.

Well, I actually think they, believe it or not, I think the Redskins actually have a chance on Sunday. But not because I look at the matchup and see, like, an advantage. It's just the typical, you know, contrarian philosophy week to week. One team looks great. One team actually look good but lost, and they'll play well Sunday. But so here's my thought on this. It is, it's still a rivalry, but it is diminished. It's diminished in a major way, and I can only speak from my personal viewpoint.

I don't get nearly as excited for this as I used to. Now, some of that could be chalked up to age and life priorities, but I don't even think it's that. Because I think if these games were still massively important year and year out, big games, standings impact, I would still get very excited for this game. It's still a rivalry in that, you know, people know and recognize Redskins Cowboys as two teams that are rivals with one another. I gave a comparison today that I think you'll, you will identify with, I don't know if you'll agree with. Remember what the Raiders chiefs was as a rivalry in the 70s? Remember how big of a rivalry? I mean, maybe only second to the Redskins Cowboys.

Yes. That really isn't a rivalry anymore nationally. Nobody thinks of Raiders' chiefs as a big rivalry. I think the fan bases of both teams recognize the importance in the history to a certain degree, but it really faded because the teams, you know, there were a couple of moments here and there, like there have been a couple of moments for Redskins Cowboys over the last 20 years. But for the most part, it's like one of those rivales. that you've got to be a long-time fan to really recognize.

And so that's the comp for me. Good comp or bad comp. That's the comp for you, huh? You've seen the crowds at Arrowhead Stadium, right? Yes, I have. I'm not comparing this fan base to the Chiefs fan base. Okay, well, that's half of the equation. You've seen how passionate Raiders fans are, right?

I have, but I would suggest to you that the Raiders fans get more excited for the Bronco game. At what point do the Redskins compare to either fan base today? They don't. Well, I don't know. Very few fan bases compared to the Chiefs fan base. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the description of the two teams playing each other as a rivalry. The Raiders get in their fan base, the Broncos have become much more of a rival over the years.

and even for the chiefs, the Broncos are probably a bigger rival over the years. Anyway, you don't like the comparison, but it's not for the... I think you're trying to compare the fan bases, which I would agree with you. I'm just trying to say it's a past rivalry that just isn't that important anymore to hardly anyone outside the two towns. With that said, Tommy, do you know this is the first year since 2007 that one of the two Redskinned Cowboy games isn't scheduled for either primetime or a Thanksgiving Day game.

First time in 12 years. And nationally, when they've played in recent years in prime time, it's gotten a great number, a great rating. Cowboy games usually do. True. That's true. I mean, the Cowboys carry the day. Look, I think Redskins fans, going back to what we started out at the beginning,

beginning a show, I think Redskins fans are too angry these days to care about the Cowboys rivalry anymore. Now, if they win, then you'll see, oh, baby, you know, we beat our rivals and all that. But otherwise, I think they're numb to it. I just think there's too angry about everything to get worked up about the myth of this rivalry. Look, the bottom line is, you know, the rivalry between these two teams has diminished. That is a fact. There's no way you can debate that. It's not what it once was. And the reason for that is really simple. They haven't played nearly as many meaningful games as they did in the 70s, 80s, in the first half of the 90s. You had a 25-year period where probably three out of every four games had major standings, implications, playoff implications, et cetera. And you haven't had that for basically the last 25 years. Because, and by the way, it's not all the fault of the Redskins. The Cowboys have been dreadful at

times as well. And they've been an inconsistent franchise under Jerry Jones, especially those first years after Jimmy left. So it's on them as well. What's interesting, a friend of mine texted me when I was having this conversation this morning. And he said, what are the good rivalries in the NFL right now. What would you consider to be a really compelling rivalry? A lot of this has to do with just the changing nature of the teams year and year out. And I thought about it. And I think the Raven Steelers over the last 10 to 15 years, 10 to 12 years, has been the best and most consistent rivalry in the NFL. After that, what's a great rivalry? Packers, Bears. Bears, Vikings. Really? Packers, Vikings.

Why? Because they played all these meaningful playoff games and significant standings. They don't need that. They don't need that. They don't? They all have passionate fanbets. I'm talking about nationally. I'm talking about nationally, not locally. Okay, nationally. You think people get nationally get really excited and ginned up for Packers, Vikings? Well, I think if you recognize that the Bears, two of those three teams, the Bears and the Packers have national fan bases, yeah, I think they do.

I think, oh, I mean, that's easy. You know what? Cowboys, Eagles. Well, that was my next one, is that the Cowboys and Eagles have actually, you know, had a lot of significant and meaningful games more so than Cowboys Redskins, you know, over the years. I disagree with you in Packers, Vikings. I don't see that as a national rivalry game that people get all ginned up and excited over. You know, there was a stretch there for a few years where 49ers Seahawks was really, important, but that was fleeting. And you had all of those games between the Patriots and the

Colts there, Patriots and Peyton Manning in particular, that were really big games and important games, and you got into a run of some of those. But right now, like today, what is the best rivalry in the NFL from a national perspective? I don't think that there's a slam dunk answer there. I mean, if you want to say Raven Steelers, that's fine. But the Raven Steelers here, no, that's the one, I would think nothing else probably would be considered a big-time can't-miss matchup year and year out. You're talking about the quality of the game? I'm talking about the interest nationally because it's a big-time rivalry game.

I think Bears and Packers every year. Every year? And look, yes. Listen, Kevin, this argument is just because we don't care about our team. nobody else cares about their rival. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm an NFL fan. I'm a huge NFL fan, despite the fact that the Redskins have sucked.

That hasn't been the issue at all. I'm a massive NFL fan. No, no, no, no. And I can identify what is a white-hot rivalry versus what isn't. And so I'm struggling trying to figure out what the white-hot rivalry in the NFL is right now. I mean, the Bears had a good season last. last year. They sucked for five or six years leading up. What big Bears Packers game have we had? They were five and eleven before last year, three and thirteen, six and ten, five and eleven.

They haven't had a winning record since 2012. And it was still bigger nationally than almost every Redskins game. Except for the networks have decided to put the Redskins Cowboys on national TV more than any other matchup in the NFL over that same stretch of time. There's still. Still no matchup over the last decade that's been featured in prime time more than the Redskins Cowboys. Just so you know. You know that.

You know that. Oh, I do know that. Yeah. Last year when they played on Thanksgiving, when I say prime time, the combination of prime time and Thanksgiving. Last year before that Thanksgiving game, I went back and looked at the last 10 years and the Cowboys Redskins were number one in primetime and or Thanksgiving Day matchups over the previous 10 years.

Again, I just mentioned to you, this is the first time in 12 years that the two of them haven't had a major marquee national television game scheduled. All right. The Bears Packers is a... I mean, I don't see how the argument that there are no more rivalries is room for cover because nobody cares about Redskins Cowboys. I didn't use it as a way to cover it for nobody cares about Redskins Cowboys. I just suggested, based on a text that my friend sent me during the show this morning, he said, well, what are the big rivalries? You're saying that the Redskins Cowboys has diminished significantly,

which, by the way, I agree with. But what are the massive big-time NFL rivalries right now? It's hard to come up with one. I don't think it was that hard. You came up with Packers' Vikings and Packers Bears. There haven't been meaningless Packers' Bears games in several years. Except for the opener the other night. And that's because they played it as the longest-running rivalry in the 100th season of the NFL.

Packers, Vikings, probably more meaningful matchups in recent years, I would guess. To me, the Ravens and the Steelers over the last 10 years have had probably more late-season meaningful impact on standings, playoff situation games than any division rivals. And I would argue that Bears and Packers was always among the biggest rivalries in the NFL, whether one team was bad or not. The brand made it irrelevant. As did the Redskins Cowboys brands for many years, even though they weren't. Well, again, if it's no more, then it's no more beginning this year. because they played on Thanksgiving Day last year.

The year before that, they played in a primetime Thursday night game. The year before that, they played in a primetime Monday or Sunday night game. The year before that was the Thanksgiving Day game. So the league and the league's networks have deemed the Redskins Cowboys to be more important than the Packers Bears over the last decade. But maybe this is the first year that they're going to deem Packers Bears to be a better draw and more important to their TV ratings. And I would also suggest that you have a good point when you say, well, that's because it's the Cowboys. And the Cowboys play a lot of these national

TV games. And these NFC East matchups have always been big draws regardless of the matchups. And there's some truth to that as well. Anyway, I don't want to spend any more time. I just look at the NFL right now as a big league fan in addition to being a Redskins fan. And I can't point out to you right now that a rivalry is absolutely smoking white hot right now. Can't point one out. And I disagree. I know. You think it's Bears, Packers, or Packers, Vikings? I think it's Steelers Ravens. Steelers Ravens would be the one. Steelers Ravens would definitely be the one. All right, guys, let me tell you real quickly about my bookie.ag, because I hear all the time from you after I do my smell test or Aaron and and I are talking about point spreads or games we like or don't like, and they're like, well, where do you bet

through. I've got a place for you. It's my bookie.orgie. And understand this. Where you bet is as important as who you bet on. You need to have a reliable place. And that's what my bookie.orgie. It's fast. It's easy. They pay you when you win. I wouldn't be telling you guys to bet with them if they weren't the best. Do the smart thing. If you're going to bet on football games this season starting tonight, bet with my bookie. You go to my bookie.com. A.g. Now, the best thing about MyBooky.ag is they've got everything that you want. You want in-game betting, you want second-half betting, you want props, you want good fees, good juices, good vigs. You'll get it all at MyBooky.orgie.

If you're the kind of guy that loves to dabble in the parlays, a little two-team, three-team, four-team parlay, paying 10 to 1 or greater, all your picks come through, you multiply your winnings, go to MyBooky.orgie. It's the premier place to bet on all your favorite sports action, especially the NFL and college games every weekend. All right, join now, and MyBooky will double your first deposit. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. That's K-E-V-I-N-D-C. It'll activate the offer. Visit mybooky.orgie.orgie today. You play, you win, you get paid, and don't forget, again, to use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. You guys have been asking me, where do you bet through? That's where you go. MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. All right, you wanted to talk about the latest on Antonio Brown. Go ahead. Well, there's two things. I don't want to get caught up in the he said, she said thing, and the accusations made by this woman against him.

Okay, then what are you going to say about? of it. Okay, first of all, you know, people were saying, well, should the Patriots, you know, should he be put on the commissioner's exempt list, you know, and not play while this is taking place? And should the Patriots step in and not have him on the field while this is going on? That issue is going to take care of itself. He's going to play himself off that team within two weeks' tops. He won't be. By the time they come to play the Redskins, Antonio Brown won't be a patriot. I mean, this is a guy who flipped out

because he didn't have the right helmet. Now, he's accused of being a rapist. What do you think he's got... How do you think he's going to react to that? I mean, he's going to have a nervous breakdown. This guy is going to play himself off the Patriots on his own without anything to do with the rape allegations. So, I mean, he will not be in the NFL, I'd say, by week five.

I mean, you'll be out of it. I love when you make, you know, super bold predictions on you heard it here first, but that's not that bold. That's not a ledge you're out there by yourself on. I mean, maybe. But I haven't heard anyone else say that, you know, say I haven't heard anyone else say that they don't have to worry about resolving this whether they'll play or not. Well, they should worry about putting a potential rapist on the field, and they're not going to know. First of all, I think the whole NFL investigation thing is always hysterical,

because it's like, you know, here's the league that has all of these brilliant investigators who couldn't even get access to various hotel tapes in the past, or so they told us, right? So they're going to investigate this, and they're going to interview the accuser, who apparently, I think, is scheduled to get married this weekend, which is why they haven't been able to expedite it and get it done sooner rather than later. By the way, just as an aside, I was thinking about this earlier, Josina Anderson, I think is really good at what she does. I don't know what you think about her on ESPN.

I think she's a really good reporter. I think she's very good on television too. I was watching her late last night, and she suggested that there are another couple of big shoes to drop on this story, that that's what's coming next even before, potentially. The accuser is interviewed. and of course given the nature of this last month and a half, of course something else is coming.

I mean, we've gone from hot air balloon landing and training camp, a training camp that the dude couldn't even participate in because he froze his feet off, then came the helmet issue, which he threatened to retire. Then he walked out of training camp, which his, by the way, shameful agent said, isn't a big deal. Then the things picked up last week when he put out, the fine letter

on social media Tommy with that mumbling rumbling, uncoherent statement written on top of it, like he was trying to write some proverb. I don't know, I couldn't even I could not explain that to you. Then came the video

or no, then came the screaming match with Mayock and then came the video, which by the way, I forget if we did this on Tuesday or I did it by myself yesterday, Gruden, apparently, said it was okay to use the recording. All the while, this guy's actually scheming to get out.

Like Gruden basically said, oh, yeah, absolutely. That's funny. That's great stuff. Use it. What a fool he looks like in this. But anyway, of course, you know, there's a really good chance he's going to, you know, inflict something, you know, self-inflict something to get him out of New England even before this thing is resolved.

The thing about the exempt list, you know, the Patriots are in one of those tough spots, right? Because if they don't use that exempt list, don't they have to rely on the league? Like if I'm the Patriots and the league says, well, we're not putting them on any of these lists, he's eligible to play. What do you do? Like, to me, the league has to make this call. It can't be on the teams. Do you agree with that or not? Well, look, if it were my team, he wouldn't be on it.

He wouldn't have been on it. Okay, fine, but now he is. But now he is, you have to rely on the NFL. And if the NFL says, no, we're not putting him on the exempt list. He could play, then you've got to play him, I think. Yeah, it's just, it's funny because the Patriots in that situation, if the league made that decision would get the benefit of the doubt. Like they, we went ahead and played him because the league,

told us it was all fine to play him. Whereas other teams, you know, people in the media and fans, whether the fans of that team or other teams would say, oh, with that team, they better make the decision regardless of what the NFL said to sit them. You can't take that risk in this era. You know, I don't know what's coming next, but I don't think. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, I just don't think it's much of a limb to be on to say that he won't be on their roster by the time they come to Washington in week five. I think that's probably even money. Okay.

I think I know what the other shoe is. Remember Larry Johnson, the running back? Yeah. He was here briefly with the Redskins at the end of his career, gained a lot of yards in Kansas City, Penn State, running back star. He's on social media. This is what he tweeted in response to the emails detailing some of the stuff

and the reports of some of the stuff that Antonio Brown allegedly did to this woman. Larry Johnson, you know, sometimes we know too much about the world, and I don't want to know anymore, and I didn't really want to know

this. Okay, so tell me. Larry Johnson on Twitter, do not be fooled. This is a page out of the satanic pagan worship of the goat god baffirms. It's a ritual in plain view.

Luciferian doctrine incorporates esoteric beliefs of alternative personalities. Minimal will happen to him. I'm sorry it's hard for you to swallow that top-tier professional athletes of this generation are flirting with secret society, mystery Babylonian religions. bow bafflement that includes disgusting sacrifices. Is that a passage from one of the Testaments? I think it's the book of Larry. I think it's the book of Larry who has basically declared that this is part of some satanic ritual

and that other NFL players are involved in the secret society as well. Luciferian Doctrine, what did you say? Alternate personalities? What was that? Lutheran Doctrine Doctrine Incorporates esoteric beliefs of alternate personality. These top-tier professional athletes of this generation are flirting with secret society, mystery, Babylonian religion. Is this a CTV thing you think with Larry Johnson, or is he just brilliant? I think it could be the other show.

What do you think? I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. I just love all of the... See, the funny thing, I can't tell, by the way, was he supporting Antonio Brown or not? No, no, he wasn't. Okay.

I don't think he was. I think he was exposing this secret society of NFL satanic worship. By the way, that's not the first time he's tweeted about this. Really? Two weeks ago, he tweeted about how there is an infaminate agenda going on amongst the NFL elite, peddled by high-ranking masons and handlers to indoctrinate the heterosexual sports world without them knowing, but we are not ready to have that conversation yet. Okay, Kevin, I got a question for you.

What? As nuts as this guy is, and obviously, you know, he's got his own rituals going on. on a scale of 1 to 10, how surprised would you be if there was a secret society of NFL players that took part in satanic rituals? Oh, how surprised, so 10 being the most surprised? Like a 3? Yes.

Like a 3? Yeah, I mean, there's so much. I've heard of various things that are more on the, less satanic and more sort of just belief in spiritual thing that just always blows me away. And I hate to speak to it because it's reflective of nothing in the way that I necessarily believe, because I'm actually, you know, not a religious person, but I grew up like you did as a Catholic and as a dutiful Catholic for much of my life. But it's just, it's incredible in the sports world how spiritual and religious a lot of these athletes are.

Do you, you know what I mean? Like, it seems to be so prevalent in sports. Athletes who work real hard who do everything they can to succeed and then fail, have to have an explanation. They need an explanation. I mean, they need, in other words, it's got to be something else working because I did everything I was supposed to do. I did everything right, and I failed. That can't be. All right, we got to wrap it up, and I just want your pick.

I want your Redskins Cowboys pick before we go. Cowboys 24, Redskins 17. So they don't get the cover? No. Okay. I will talk to you next week. Have a good weekend. Okay, boss.

I'll see you. All right. Tommy with us all day to day. That's basically it for today, Aaron. I don't think we forgot anything. I think we touched on everything Redskins-related. Nat's won last night, which is a big win. If you missed Ray Knight on the radio show,

go listen to it on the Team 980.com or the Team 980 app. Ray Knight's really a good guest, and I really enjoyed the conversation with him today on the radio show. Don't forget, I'm on 7 to 10 on radio every day now on 980 and the Team 980.com and the Team 980 app. Thanks to Aaron, thanks to Tommy. Don't forget, rate us, review us on iTunes or Apple Podcasts. Subscribe.

It helps us as well. And don't forget to tell people who aren't listening to the podcast that they can do it also at the kevin shiann show.com. We'll have all of the Redskins Friday preview, NFL previews, smell test everything tomorrow. Enjoy the rest of the day.