The Kevin Sheehan Show - Redskins Draft Recap and Game of Thrones

Episode Date: April 29, 2019

Kevin opens with a complete Redskins draft recap. Trevor Matich joined the show with his thoughts on the Skins' draft. Kevin talked about Dave Gettleman's remarks over the weekend that two teams were set to take Daniel Jones before 17 in the draft. Kevin also talked NBA Playoffs before he and Aaron finished the show with a Game of Thrones recap. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right. I am here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Trevor Mattich is going to be on this show today. Trevor not only did a great job for NBC Sports, Washington, in their draft coverage. but Trevor knows college football as good as anybody does out there, as well as anybody out there knows it. So we're going to catch up with him on the Skins draft in a few minutes, more like 20, 25 minutes, something like that, because I've got a lot of thoughts on the Skins draft as well.

We're going to get a Game of Thrones recap in here to finish up the show. We will, and I will weigh in on whether or not James Harden got fouled at the end of game one in Oakland yesterday. It was very funny. Somebody tweeted me and said, you're the only person paying attention to the NBA playoffs. And I sort of feel like, while that's an exaggeration, I'm one of very few,

which is why it's great that you can come to me and I can give you the game one recap of the Warriors Rockets, a game that you didn't even watch that ended in controversy. We'll do that. Later on, we'll do some Nats. Hockey, watch some hockey over the weekend. And we'll definitely get to the Dave Gettleman. comment or comments about two other teams that were going to take Daniel Jones before 17.

Also, Josh Rosen sent a goodbye to Arizona fans and a hello to Miami fans. But I know some of you are waiting for the Game of Thrones recap. I'm not even going to mention anything right now because I want to get to the Redskins draft, the 2019 draft. And it being universally complimented as one of the best in the NFL. NFL from over the weekend. Listen to the grades of this Redskins draft from the various sports publications. Bleacher Report gave it an A-plus. Mel Kuiper gave it an A-minus. S-B-Nation in A-minus. USA Today in A-minus. The Washington Post, an A-minus from the Post. Does anybody hate the

Redskins more than the post? A-minus grade. NFL.com B-plus. And Sporting news gave the Redskins draft the third best grade of any NFL team. Oh my God. Have we ever seen the Redskins receive this much praise for something that most people think takes so much brainpower? The answer is, yes, we have. I was very curious as to what recent drafts were graded and what the responses were, because this one was. overwhelmingly positive. And I think that we had this feeling that it was very unique. I did. The 2015 draft, the Scott McLuhan's first draft that featured Brandon Sheriff and Preston Smith and Matt Jones and James and Crowder. Do you know what it got? A minuses from Kuiper and McShay.

And almost every other grade of the Redskins 2015 draft was an A, or at worst a B. How about the 2016 draft that was graded out by all the experts? All A's and Bs on the 2016 draft, the draft that included Josh Doxon and Sue Cravens. NFL.com gave it an A. Walter Football gave it an A. Last year's draft was well regarded.

A couple of A's, a lot of B pluses and Bs. Now, don't you think that's interesting? that yesterday, this past weekend's draft, I think almost across the board, Redskin fans believed, wow, they killed it this weekend and look at the grades they're getting. Everybody agrees. The reaction to the skin's draft was over the moon this weekend. And I thought, and I think all of you thought, it was the first time it's been highly regarded. First time.

Did you, did you, did you, are you surprised? with what I just went through? Yeah, I mean, I remember a few of them in the past getting at least the occasional decent grade or well regarded, but I don't remember it being, you know, pretty consistent like that. Three of their last four drafts before this past weekend were highly rated drafts from the, you know, the experts. Last year, not so much. A ton of B-minuses and Cs in regards to the Duran Payne, Darius Geist draft. But still, you know, it's surprising to me to go back and see that the experts graded out Redskin recent drafts in a similar way to the way they graded out this weekend.

It's almost like any time the skins do anything that remotely seems smart or good, we think it's the first time when people say that. I think there are reasons for thinking this, all of them justifiable. I mean, the biggest reason being the team's results, the team's record, the team's absence year and year out from the postseason, But the fact about the immediate reaction to their drafts in recent years, the fact is that they have all been very well rated with the exception of last years. So anyway, what does it mean?

What does it mean all of these, you know, A pluses and A's and A minuses? The truth is not much. Draft rankings in the immediate aftermath of a draft are pretty much worthless. You can do this for every team. I'll stick with the Redskins. The 2016 draft, which, as I just mentioned, was highly regarded, featured Josh Doxon and Sue Cravens. Their first and second round picks are at this moment.

Major busts. The 2017 draft, not highly regarded. One of the 10 players, of the 10 players picked, excuse me, of the 10 players picked, eight of them already have contributed. Five of them already have started games, and John Allen looks like a potential star in the making. The point is, nobody really knows. I said this the other day. This is the debate we have

as sports fans and as Redskins fans every year. You know, we have this same debate, and it is the ultimate debate that we have that varies in opinions and they are mostly uninformed opinions. There is more guessing involved with the draft than any other sports debate we have with each other, during the course of the year. Can you think of one that has more guesswork involved? We all watch games. We all have immediate feelings, and we have a lot of facts to back up our opinions about the games that we've watched, or, you know, a particular trade or whatever. The draft is the one where all of us, for the most part, are guessing. It applies, by the way, the guessing does, to all of the draft analysts, the guys that spend their entire year

preparing for the three days that we just completed. It applies to GMs and scouts and team presidents. And they all have the information that most of us don't have. And it's still for them a guess, maybe more educated, but it's still a guess. So the Skins 2019 draft, which has been universally praised, is a, we'll see. It's going to take a few years. It's going to take a few years before anybody can actually see. see what it turned out to be clearly.

So with that understanding and context, what did I think of the Redskins draft? I liked it. I pretty much liked it. I realized that I'm guessing, just like everybody else. But there were players that I had mentioned last week and over the weekend that I was hoping they would take, and they did. I also liked that their picks for the most part were made based on a belief in their board. The pick of Bryce Love in the fourth, round is a clear case of sticking with the board and drafting the best player available. None of you were thinking about running back. They picked one and they picked one coming off an ACL injury. I've got more on him later. But I think the philosophy of drafting their board,

or at least drafting their board after the pick of Haskins, all right, because I don't believe that the pick of Dwayne Haskins was an example of them drafting their board. But for the rest of it, it appeared as if they were thinking as much about the long-term, as much about the long-term makeup of their roster as they were the short-term makeup of their roster, and I like that. And I'm not sure I expected that. Back to the Bryce Love Pick just for a moment. I tweeted out on Saturday morning before the draft started that they shouldn't pass on Bryce Love if he's there.

Somebody said, did you know anything about their board? And I said, I may have. I didn't. I didn't know anything about their board. board. Most wouldn't think that they had a need for a running back. I didn't want them to care about needs. First of all, they have a need for difference-making explosive players at almost every position. And love is all of that and more. Much more than Geis healthy. Much more of an explosive player than Geisfully healthy, which by the way is still a question, more than a 34-year-old

Adrian Peterson and an oft-injured Chris Thompson, who, by the way, has missed 12 games in the last two years and is entering the final year of his contract. That pick of Bryce Love was an indication that they were sticking to their board, and I loved that pick, and I loved that feeling that I had when they made it, that, hey, we're drafting our board. I was surprised by it, too, to a certain degree. You know, we've heard the, we're close for so long that, you know, they are, Bryce Love is a long-term play, not a short-term play. He may not even be able to play in 2019. I think he will be, but he may not be able to play early. So looking at this draft beyond 2019 is a good thing. You know why? Because 2019, more likely than not, is going to be a rough season. It's going to be a rough season more

likely than not. As far as the players go, let's go in order. Back to Haskins on Thursday night. I still question this pick. Many of you really went after me on Twitter about my reaction to this pick. I don't know what you want me to say. Going back to September and October and November, I said over and over again on this podcast, I just don't see it with Haskins. This was long before we knew the skins would be in position to draft him. And just because they did, I wasn't going to changed my mind. And by the way, Cooley didn't talk me into anything about Haskins. I had that feeling back in September, October, November, and mentioned it on this podcast. I'm not the only one that didn't love the Haskins pick. There were plenty of people out there that liked Locke and even

Jones more than Haskins. The constructive, not personal, but constructive criticism, is based on the following. I saw a quarterback that had an incredible, an incredible array of weapons with a genius offensive mind in Urban Meyer. And to me, he looked slow at times, played very mechanically at times. And when they played the teams that really got after him, you know, he showed not as much of a natural reaction and an extension in the pocket ability, in my view. He showed, slower throwing mechanics. I like some things about him. He's got a big arm. He's got good size. He's got the ability and you saw it to throw with anticipation when he had time. I thought he read the field really, really well and got better and better. And I conceded in every

conversation I had about him that he needed more time and I could feel totally different in 2019 if he stayed another year in college with Urban Meyer. Of course, it wouldn't have been Urban Meyer. It's Ryan Day. He had impressive games in big spots. The Northwestern game and the Big Ten title game was one of his best, not just because of the numbers, because it really appeared that he destroyed a good defensive college football team at the line of scrimmage over and over and over again, and that was late in the season, so it showed that he was getting better and he was improving. I didn't think. I did not think that his games against good defensive teams like Michigan State in Washington were good enough.

In the bowl game against Washington, Ohio State was three for 13 on third down and punted six times in the second half because he couldn't make throws against pressure on third down. In the Michigan State game, they punted ten times, ten times on 12 missed third down conversions. he felt the pressure in that game more than in any other. He looked completely discombobulated in that Michigan State game. They won the game thanks to a safety, a defensive touchdown, and an unbelievable punting display that included five punts inside the six-yard line in the second half alone.

Why did they punt so much in the second half? Because Haskins and the Ohio State offense, with great field position, couldn't move the football and convert on third down. I've mentioned the Penn State game many times because I was there. And the Buckeyes were playing a team that had given up 45 points to Appalachian State a few weeks earlier. And in that game, they had seven points at halftime.

And then in the fourth quarter, they needed playmakers on horizontal passes to make incredible runs after the catch to come back. James Franklin helped him. He was terrible in calling plays in that game. They had a fourth and five nearing field goal range late, and he ran Miles Sanders for two yards. I just, I don't know what you want me to say. I never saw it with Haskins. We're all sports fans, and sometimes you just watch and you have a feeling. I said it all year long, all year long.

Other teams, by the way, felt the same way. You can't debate that. teams like Denver and Cincinnati and of course the Giants and Dolphins all had chances to take Haskins and passed and got quarterbacks later. What is that, Aaron? Is that like a drill out in the hall? Yeah, I think they're doing some construction out in the hallway there. Hopefully it's not disruptive here. But again, I mean, Denver, Cincinnati, the Giants, Dolphins all had chances to take Haskins and passed.

Doesn't mean they're right. But he was one of those guys where opinions were all over the place. The Redskins' own evaluating staff didn't have him as a top 15 player on their board. I am pretty sure of that. And their football people were not nearly as sure about Haskins as the owner was. And I'm going to take 30 seconds, 30 to 60 seconds here, maybe a little bit more. I don't know how long it's going to last. To address this, for those of you that think that the reporting, locally and nationally,

The reporting on Haskins being Dan Snyder's pick was somehow not accurate and even dumber from my perspective, a form of Redskins bashing. Like you really need a lot in recent years to Redskins bash. I mean, are you kidding? Reporting that Dan Snyder trumped his football people on Haskins is an example of Redskins bashing. Those of you who feel that way must have just sleptwalk through the last 20 years. This is what I believe. For starters, every report that stated Dan Snyder inserted himself with their first round pick more in this draft than in recent drafts, I believe all of those reports. Diana Rusini, Garofalo, Grant Paulson, and any others that suggested this, including the people on the sets of ESPN and NFL network who were implying this or indicating this, I believe it all. Why? Well, first of all, I had a gut feel from the jump, as you know, back in January that Dan was going to be much more involved in this offseason. All of you who have listened know this to be true. Next, I heard a week ago from someone who's been a good resource for me over the years that Snyder loved Haskins. I asked coolly about it on Thursday. He said emphatically that he didn't believe that Dan had, Dan wanted to be. He was he.

anything other than a pick that would help them win. He implied that Dan was not going to trump his football people on this pick. I disagreed. Yet Cooley, by the way, did believe that the skins would take Haskins if he were available at 15. On Friday after the show was out, I was told something from someone who has been reliable with me in the past that would support the Diana Rusini tweet on Saturday. She tweeted the following. As for Dan Snyder getting his way with the quarterback pick,

my belief is this was a very bold reminder to anyone who leaked out information that he's the owner of the team, and this is, in capital letters, his team. You will not beat him. I was told that the leaks leading up to the draft had really ticked him off. And it's funny because Bruce Allen all of these years, you know, him keeping Bruce Allen on all of these years. And I think many in the local and national media will tell you that in many cases over the years, Bruce has been the leaker.

But in this case, I believe the football people, Jay Gruden perhaps, were leaking things about Snyder's expected push to draft Haskins because they didn't want Haskins at 15. I do think that there was this confrontation about what to do at first. 15. Snyder wasn't happy about some of those leaks, wanted to basically make the point. This is his goddamn football team. He wants Haskins. He's sure of Haskins. Haskins playing here in D.C. will be huge for the organization, and nobody was going to tell him differently. Now, I don't believe that the skins wanted Daniel Jones at 15. I believe that some in the organization like Jones more than Haskins, but I don't believe that any of the football people liked any of the quarterbacks other than Murray at 15 or higher.

I think some in the organization liked Rosen more than Haskins and mentioned that on Friday. I don't believe that Bruce reached out to Arizona about Rosen at any point close to the draft, despite the report from Robert Clemco on SI.com and Monday morning quarterback. On Friday, Clemco said or reported that the Cardinals made contact, the Cardinals made contact, the Cardinals made contact with Miami, the Giants, and the Redskins about Rosen. But none of those teams were willing to offer a first-round pick for Rosen in the draft. The Redskins, he wrote, had emerged as the favorite in trade talks with Arizona, but owner Dan Snyder and President Bruce Allen were resolved not to give up anything close to a first-round pick.

That was per Klemko. I believe that some of the football people in Ashburn liked Roe's. Rosen for a second round pick. By the way, Miami gave up a second and a fifth over the weekend. I think that was pretty good value for Josh Rosen. I think it's a good deal for Miami. Again, and I mentioned this on Thursday and Friday. Personally, I would have given up a second and a fifth for Rosen

before using 15 on Haskins. That's just me. What I really believe more than anything else as it relates to what happened on Thursday night, is that the football people wanted the best player available on the board that they had created because they had so many needs and they didn't have any of the quarterbacks other than Murray rated as high as 15. I also believe that if the quarterback was the push from ownership, some if not all of the football people would have also preferred a

second and a fifth for Rosen. All right, that's what I believe. All right, now, to the rest of the draft, you know I love the Montez Sweat Pick. He was one of my favorite players in this draft from my favorite defensive team in college football to watch last year. Mississippi State's defense had three players taken in the first round of the draft off that defense. It was spectacular to watch their defense this year. If they had had any offense, Mississippi State would have potentially been a playoff team, but they had no offense.

So you know I loved the Montez sweat pick. I have to tell you, I'm more excited about what, or actually, excited about watching him as following the development and the handling of Haskins, which I think is going to be a very interesting storyline all summer long leading up to the regular season. It's going to be. How can't it be? Whether or not Dwayne Haskins is making the kind of progress that he is now pushing equal or has been better than Case Keenan and Colt McCoy, will he start the opener?

I have no idea whether or not he will start the opener or not. I think there will be pressure if it's close to start him in the opener. I liked the McLaurin pick in the third round, the receiver from Ohio State. I didn't love the pick because I liked other receivers more, including Riley Ridley and Kelvin Harmon, who by the way, I also tweeted out Saturday morning that Harmon could be a pick for them. I liked Butler more, too. They got Harmon in the sixth round, and I'll have more on him in a moment.

I absolutely, as I've mentioned, loved the Bryce Love Pick. He was one of the running backs I had mentioned on Thursday. I tweeted out Saturday morning that they shouldn't pass on them. The running back thing, the fact that, you know, there's this perception that they've got so much at running back now, I don't have any problem with them drafting a running back. I said on Thursday that they should be, at the very least, looking for a Chris Thompson replacement. Thompson's missed too many games. His lack of a contract beyond this year will be an issue. And I'm still not sure about Geis anyway. Love's 2018 was unfortunate. Early ankle issues and then a torn ACL in the season finale. Obviously, I'm assuming the medical was important. But Love is the type of player they just haven't had. He's a game changer in a big way. Think about Chris Johnson's explosion. once he got through the line of scrimmage, then think a combination of McCaffrey and Alvin

Kamara, except he's a better first-down run threat. He's a guy that scores touchdowns from anywhere on the field. I don't care if he's not a help in 2019. They're not more likely than not going to win in 2019. This pick could prove to be the one that we look back on from this draft. If you watched college football and you watched Bryce Love in 2017, it was OMG material. Pro offense for David Shaw, unbelievable vision and quick feet in the hole, and then ridiculous explosive speed to take it to the house. The Redskins were at the bottom of the league last year in explosive plays. They always seemed to be near the bottom of the league in explosive plays, except for 2015 and certainly in 2016, when Cousins, Jackson, Reed, etc.

They were very explosive in 2016. That's really the one year in recent years where it's like, wow, they're really good offensively. Love scores from anywhere on the field if he's healthy. Someone tweeted to me, we have Geis. I personally wasn't a huge fan of Geiss in last year's draft, if you remember. I don't dislike him. But I liked some. I liked some. several running backs more. Carry on Johnson being the one in the second round that the Redskins apparently were going to take last year until Detroit traded in front of them and took him. I imagine that a one-two punch of a healthy geist and a healthy love in 2020 and beyond could be awesome, especially how important it could be for a young quarterback in Haskins.

He would have been a first rounder, if not for the injury. He probably should have come out after the 2017 season when he rushed for 2,100 plus yards. But I love this pick because I love the player. But beyond that, it was an example of them sticking to their board. I also like it because this draft, and some of the recent drafts, have focused on smart players, team leaders, guys who have played a lot and produced big time in college.

You know, I like that. Now, Haskins is an example of this from a production standpoint, team leadership standpoint, but doesn't have the playing time, the track record of playing time, because he really started for one season. Wes Martin, their other fourth round pick, by the way, the skins traded, if you miss this, their other third round pick, their compensatory late third round for two fourths. That's why they ended up with two fourth rounders when they didn't have one to begin with because of the Ha Ha, ha, Clinton Dicks trade. But that third at the end was the compensatory for Kirk Cousins. So we'll be able to sort of judge, these two fourth round picks were essentially these two players, right? Bryce Love and

Wes Martin were the two players they got for Kirk Cousins, the compensatory pick that they got for Cousins, losing Cousins to free agency. Martin, by the way, was a guy that played and led. Ross Piercebocker did the same thing at Alabama, and there's the one Alabama pick, by the way, even if it was on offense and not on defense. The Cole Holcomb pick, the linebacker from North Carolina, he's got some speed, another example of productivity and played a lot and leadership. The Kelvin Harmon pick, which I mentioned briefly, and again, a Saturday morning, I tweeted out, I got lucky Saturday morning with suggesting Love and Harmon.

I liked him and Ridley. I liked Ridley more. I thought that I was very, very surprised. that Ridley lasted as long as he lasted. He went to Chicago where from the last two drafts, they've gotten two of my favorite receivers from college football, Anthony Miller and now Riley Ridley. But I thought Harmon would be a good pick in the fourth round,

and they got him in the sixth. He was Ryan Finley's favorite target at NC State, another example of a guy who produced good size, great length and wingspan. Blocks runs good routes. He's not a hands catcher, which is why I liked Ridley more, but Harmon has a real chance, especially on this team. By the way, what's next for Josh Doxon? I say don't write him off yet.

They still don't have anything definite at receiver. McLaren, Harmon, I mean, back to McLaren for a second. Speed, 4-3-something he ran, right, Aaron? Leadership, toughness. Gruden loves his special team's ability as a gunner. but he's got chemistry with Haskins. The only thing I thought of on that pick is remember Evan Spencer from Ohio State in the sixth round of the 2016 draft? A lot of similar things were said about him when they took him.

Now, this guy, you know, comes with higher ability and potential based on the round that he was taken. But for him, really, what it was about McLaurin was I liked a few other guys more, but, you know, they ended up getting one of those guys anyway, Harmon three rounds later, which is amazing. Did Jimmy Morland pick the corner from James Madison in the seventh round? I have no idea, but they say he was a productive ballhawker. Like he had great feel and anticipation. He's a seventh round pick. They again went with production with a guy who played a ton, so I like that. I think one of the guys that I would have really liked to have seen them draft at safety was Hooker from Iowa. they had a chance, I think, for him.

But I think he may have gone late forth. But anyway, overall, you know, as we sit here today, this would appear to be a good draft. They did some good things. It doesn't mean it'll pay off. We have to wait a few years to find out if it does. But I like their philosophy for the most part, certainly after the first pick in the draft.

And I like some of the players too. But let's also make no mistake about this. particular draft. This draft will forever be judged on what Dwayne Haskins does more than anything else. Right? I mean, I guess if, you know, they ended up with three pro bowlers, you know, two all pros and four pro bowlers and, you know, five starters, of course, we would still recognize that it was a great draft. But drafting Haskins at 15 came with some controversy. And it is one, controversy in terms of the owner's significant involvement versus the football people, but this draft will be judged in many ways on how he does.

But the rest of it, you know, I liked it. I mean, as much as you can, you know, a day after it ends and knowing, you know, and certainly admitting, as all of us should when it comes to this draft, we really don't know much. it's the one thing more than any other we just don't know a lot about. All right, quick word about Window Nation before we get to Trevor Madditch. Window Nation has a really good spring deal going on right now. Have you started your spring checklist? What does that mean?

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Tell them that I sent you. All right, let's bring in Trevor Madditch, who was part of the draft coverage for NBC Sports Washington. Trevor, of course, does the Skins Postgame show with B Mitch and Julie during the season, but he's also a part of ESPN's college football coverage all season long. So he has seen a ton of the players that were selected over the, weekend. And I actually enjoyed the, you know, the coverage that you guys had on NBC Sports

Washington, you and Loxley, Coach Loxley, both sitting there with, you know, tremendous college football knowledge, which, you know, not everybody locally has. So I enjoyed the coverage that you guys provided. I talked Trevor earlier in the show about how the draft more than any other event during the year is the thing we sports fans debate so hard but for the most part know so little about. It's such a guessing game. A debate about whether or not the skin should have run the ball on first down is much more of a debate about things we know

than if Daniel Jones's game is going to translate to the NFL or even the giant system. With that said and understood, what were your reactions, what's your overall reaction to what the skins did this weekend, going back to Thursday night? Kevin, I thought the Redskins had an A-draft. possibly A-plus, depending on a couple of things and how they work out. It was a phenomenal draft. I mean, they got their quarterback of the future locked in.

Then they got faster and more explosive. All the way up and down that draft, with the exception of two offensive linemen in the middle of it, everybody brings speed, explosiveness, and playmaking ability. And if you just start with their second first round pick, Montez-Swett, the D-N or pass rush or edge rush are out of Mississippi State. I mean, he's 6-6-2-60, runs the 40-yard dash faster than any defensive lineman in the history of the NFL combine and faster than most wide receivers and is a true difference-making, playmaking, game-changing edge rusher.

You start there and you see how much faster they got just on the defensive front. He is a tremendous upgrade from the guy that they've had the last couple of years in that position, Preston Smith and nothing against Preston, but there is no comparison to what these two guys bring to the table. And in that one pick alone, the rescue's got faster and more explosive. You know, I remember during the college football season, I had you on the podcast and we were talking about various teams. And one of the things I mentioned all year long was how much fun it was as a football fan to watch Mississippi State's defense this year. If they had had any offense this year. This would have been a team that would have threatened in the SEC and potentially for a

playoff spot. I thought it was one of the most physical, fast playmaking defenses that I saw last year. I mean, Florida had a great defense. There were a lot of them, but Mississippi states in particular, and I just, they had three players picked in the first round of the draft, and I thought sweat was the best on their defense. Yeah, I agree with you. And one of them was Jeffrey Stimmer, the big old 300-pound defensive tackle who tore his ACL working out for the draft in February. And so he fell all the way to the Titans at number 19. And that was a steal for the Titans because even though he probably won't help much,

at least early in the 2019 season, when you get into 2020 and he's fully healthy, they'll have a top five, top 10 talent all the way down at 19. And the Redskins have really maximized that concept of finding value that other teams are a little bit afraid of. I mean, Jonathan Allen is one of them. First round draft choice a couple of years ago out of Alabama, defensive linemen. Some people were worried about his shoulders, but his shoulders didn't bother him in Alabama, and so far they're not bothering him here with the Redskins.

So they got a much higher-rated talent at the spot that they finally ended up drafting Allen. Darius Geis, last year, was a running back who was considered a first-round talent, the second best running back in the draft to Saquan Barclay and went to the Giants. And some people had some concerns. about an interview, but it turns out that he's, as a redskin, has been a model citizen and a great locker room guy. And another guy that the redskins got lower than his grade would have indicated because of some concerns that other people had that don't seem to be a problem here. So you may have that same thing with Montez Sweat. I mean, he dropped all the

way to 26, even though he was considered a top 10 or even top five talent. I had to be as a top five guy, partly because of a diagnosis of a heart condition that he says is a false diagnosis. And the Redskins' doctors say he's fine, he can play. And so to get a value like that all the way down at 26, the Redskins have become masters at that over the last couple of years. And so far, it's paid off Hansen. Yeah, I cannot wait to watch him play because for years, I think all of us Redskin fans have wanted a true threat speed rusher, you know, fear-inducing pass-rush threat. And Kerrigan's been a good player, but he's not that, you know, he's not that speed, you know, quick twitch, you know, really game plan for kind of guy.

And I think sweat is. It's interesting that you went right to sweat because we passed over Haskins. And I want to get your thoughts on Haskins. And it's, you know, as they were nearing the 15th pick, you know, I was watching you. I was watching you and you know how much I respect your opinion and I was watching, you know, Coach Loxley and it really felt to me like you didn't necessarily want a quarterback at 15. You didn't think anybody, maybe you thought Murray was, but that anybody left deserved to go at 15.

So tell me, you know, what you thought of Haskins at 15 and then what you like about them and what you don't like about him. Well, Kevin, generally speaking, I'm against taking a quarterback, any quarterback, in the top half of the first round. And the reason is not because I don't think you need an elite quarterback. You do have to have a quarterback playing at the highest level in order to get to the Super Bowl. But the question is, where do you get that quarterback?

And if you look at the last 10 Super Bowls and you look at the starting quarterbacks, seven of those starting quarterbacks were taken in the first half of the first round, if you just count them once, right? Six of them were taken in the first quarterbacks. back half of the first round or not in the first round at all, and that's only counting them once. So Brady only counts for one of those. Got it.

Right. And for Philadelphia with Nick Foles, I counted that as a top part of the quarterback because their starter was hurt. He was taken in the top half of the first round. So I gave Philly the credit for that one, even though Nick Foles wasn't. So you've got the last 10 Super Bowls count the starting quarterbacks one time each. and you've got seven in the top half of the first round, six in the bottom half or lower,

and so you had about the same chance of having a Super Bowl starting quarterback if you drafted them up high or if you didn't. So why in the world do you, number one, and number two, why in the world would you move up and expend more draft capital? Now, that's not an end-all be-all stat, right? That's kind of interesting, and I think it's an interesting place to start a conversation,

and it's only my opinion and a lot of people disagree. but the question is where do you find them? So this has nothing to do with Haskins, right? But Haskins himself, I think, is a good risk. I think he only had one year as a starter at Ohio State, which means he's got very little experience, and that's one of the reasons I think he dropped down to 15, even though his talent is higher than that.

At Ohio State, he showed tremendous accuracy. He showed good mobility in the pocket. Everybody's giving him grief for running a son. slow 40 time, but his mobility in the pocket was very good, and his offensive line in Ohio State just wasn't that good in the past protecting group. So he had plenty of opportunities to show how he could manage that pocket and find an open space to throw. He would drop dimes. I mean, he was by and large extremely accurate. And mentally, he was far ahead of where you would expect the college quarterback to be in his first year as a starter in terms of reading the defense

and applying his offense to what he sees. And those are all things that he'll need to do now. at a higher level in the NFL. But I don't think that fans should hope that he starts from day one. He might win that job from the beginning. But I think the worst thing the Redskins can do is to take a guy with only one year of starting experience, put him in too soon, and have him lose his confidence. I think they're much better off bringing him along slowly,

giving him meaningful time in the second and third quarters with a package in a series or two here and there. Let him come along to where the speed of the game where he catches up to the speed of the game and then insert him as the starter when he's ready. So I don't know that he will be a major contributor to the Redskins this year. I think for the next 10, he'll be their franchise quarterback

because I do think he has all the components necessary to grow into that. But the reason I went to Montes who at first, and this is to your point, Kevin, is that he is a guy that on day, that on day one will be a major contributor. And if all you do is line him up on third and eight and tell him to go get the quarterback without regard to any other assignment, he will still be a massive upgrade to this defense. All right. So you've put the warning out there on Haskins,

which is don't play him too soon. Do you think the skins will handle him that way? I do. I really do. Because I think that they got burned in a lot of ways by their experience and how they handle RG3. And one of those was when he came back too soon after his injury. You know, he wanted to come back. He pressed to come back. They kind of acquiesced to that. And that really set him back badly in his development.

I mean, he had a fantastic rookie year. And then after that, he was mismanaged. And how much of that is on him and how much is on the team, I'll leave it for others to debate. But I think that they, you know, the whole, Holmes axiom is something that people have talked about a lot where Kansas City drafted Patrick Mahomes in the first round. He sat a year behind Alex Smith, and then he stepped in much more ready to play.

You know, and I think that it's a real risk when you put guys in too soon. I mean, when you talk at quarterback's taken up high, there's always a mashed pair. There's always, you know, going back to the classic one, Peyton Mandig and Ryan Leaf, that everybody thought both would be great. One works out. One doesn't. you know and now we've got that opportunity to see three guys with Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, and Dwayne Haskins.

Now you've got three guys and they'll always be joined at the hip and we'll see which ones pan out and which ones don't. But I think the best way to put your quarterback behind the curve is to put him in before he's ready, have him learn bad habits while he's trying to escape pressure because he doesn't know what he's seeing downfield and then have him unlearn those bad habits and rebuild his confidence once he's finally actually went and start. I like Haskins. I like it for the future. I just think they have to be smart about it.

I mean, Mahomes is the only example, Trevor, here in recent years, who's sat the first year. Everybody else has played and played early, if not day one. Yep. And I think there's an idea that you've got to get a high-drafted quarterback on to the field early because of the investment, but I think that's the opposite way to go. Keep in mind, too, that most teams that take a quarterback in the top half of the first round are available to do that because they're terrible. They were bad. And so you look at Josh Rosen, the Arizona quarterback that they just traded to Miami after one year, one year after taking him with the 10th pick in the draft because now they

took Kyle Murray with the first pick in the draft, right? Well, Rosen had a lousy year in his rookie year in 2018. Problem was he had no offensive. line and he had no receivers. And really, Kyle Murray is going to have the same problem there. I mean, relatively speaking, his offensive line at the college level was vastly more effective than the line he'll step behind at the NFL level with Arizona, same way with his receiving court.

So Rosen had no chance, but he was drafted that high because it was a bad team. Kansas City was a little different because they traded up a ways to get Mahomes. So Mahomes actually fell to a team that had better people around him. Knowing now what Rosen, you know, got back in terms of trade value, a second and a fifth, would it have been better for the Redskins to have traded a second and fifth for Rosen or to pick Haskins at 15? You know, again, this is not about Haskins, but I thought that it would have been a really good value to have that kind of a package for the Redskins to take Rosen.

Rosen would have been probably the highest rated quarterback in this draft, maybe second to Kyler Murray if he had come out this year and, you know, having, having had a year under his belt to kind of get a little humble and a little hungry, I think, is a good thing. And it would have been an investment of the highest pick would have been a second pick to invest in that quarterback. And I think that would have been a good thing too. Now, having said that, if the Redskins think that Haskins is a better guy to have for the long-term future, then by all means take him. But my ideal draft for the Redskins would have been to have taken Garrett Bradbury at number 15. He's the center.

Center from NC State who ended up going at 18, yeah, at 18. And then in the third round, take Jared Stittam. This is what I was talking about before the draft. A quarterback out Auburn, because Stittam two years ago lit it up, man. He showed all the traits. Last year, his offensive line was gone. I mean, they all graduated. His receivers were all hurt. His running back was off to the NFL, and he freaked out and didn't handle it very well, impressed. And he needs to handle that kind of lack of talent around him better than he did, but he lost his confidence last year. And so if you think he's the guy from 2017, then he's a guy that in the third round very well could develop into just as effective a quarterback as any of the

others that were in this draft. And the Patriots certainly thought that, and they snagged him in the third round. I thought that would have been a good risk. Now, having said that, Dwayne Haskins, has the armed talent, he has the mental acumen, and he has the football character and demeanor that you want in a long-term franchise quarterback. So the fact that they chose him instead of training for Rosen, I'm fine with because I do have a lot of confidence in his ability to be everything the Redskins want him to be. Yeah, I like Stidim too.

He was one of the guys that we talked about and debated here in the show with Cooley. and the Patriots got him. So if the stories Trevor were right about the football people and Dan and Bruce being at odds on Haskins, and just as an FYI, I actually believe those reports to be true. How might that manifest itself moving forward? Well, if this draft is any indication in terms of the hay and the barn, the players that they chose,

whatever they did was monumentally successful and they shouldn't change a thing. Because I love this draft. I mean, you can make, you know, there's a couple tweaks that I personally probably would have made. But having said that, top to bottom, you can justify every pick in a big way. And as a group, they got faster and more explosive. Yes, they did. And added dynamic playmakers. And it's like, it's, it's, so if there was turmoil or conflict,

or power struggles within the organization in terms of this draft, the way it worked out still could not possibly have been a whole lot better. Fair enough. The only thing that I would say is I hope that the football people are able to make the call on when Haskins is ready to play so that they don't, as you said, do it too early, and that could end up being, you know, potential. harmful. Let's get to the rest of their draft. Start with the next few rounds. We've talked about Sweat and Haskins. Who did you really like, and you said maybe a couple of tweaks you

would have made? What were those? Well, a couple of people I really like, I really like Terry McLaurin in the third round. He is one of the fastest and most productive deep threat receivers in this draft. He averaged 20 yards per catch at Ohio State. Catching Dwayne Haskins throws down the field. And he averaged those 20 yards, Kevin, not the way his teammate Paris Campbell did by catching short balls and turning up field getting yards after the catch.

He was going deep down the field. And that's important. I mean, Paul Richardson is the only deep threat on this team right now, and he was hurt a lot last year. So all of a sudden, you add a second complimentary deep threat to Richardson if he stays healthy, and you still have a deep threat if Richardson gets hurt again. I think that's really important and it opens up a lot of things in this offense.

They got faster, 4-3-5-40. Bryce Love. I thought in the fourth round was a fantastic pick for value. I mean, two years ago, he took over at Stanford running back for Christian McCaffrey and did everything McCaffrey did just as well. He won the Doak Walker is the most outstanding running back in the nation. He was a He was a Heisman finalist just like McCaffrey was the year before. Last year, he had an ankle injury all year and then tore his ACL in the final.

game of the season, which is why he fell all the way to the fourth round. But if he comes back healthy, he has got home run hitting speed at the running back position and the skills to be able to move out to slot receiver as well. So you can have two running backs on the field at the same time, have him go out and play receiver and throw off everything the defense is trying to do from their personnel stuff, and he's got that home run game-breaking speed. You know, I love Kelvin Harmon, six-round receiver. He's six to about 220 pounds and plays receiver with the attitude of a defensive tackle.

I mean, when that ball comes down, he doesn't wait for it and hope it gets to him. He goes after it like a junkyard dog going after the last bone in the yard. I mean, it is an attitude he brings it with. And so he's not particularly fast. He's not particularly shifting. But he uses his body well and he's amazingly productive because of that body and because of his attitude. and he'll be, I think, a good addition to the middle of the field for the Redskins and to be a fantastic special team.

Now go farther down. You get to the seventh round. Look at Jimmy Morland, DB out of James Madison. Right? Now you're getting into the place where maybe the guy will make the team, maybe he won't. But Morland is one of the most accomplished playmakers in this entire draft. He set records at James Madison for pick sixes and interceptions for a career. and in one single year alone he blocked five kicks.

He just got a knack for making plays. When he makes the team, I don't know. But if he does, and if he can bring that to this level, then you've got a guy who has that innate ability to make a play. And this is what they've done in this draft, and I really like it. You watch and attend so much college football games and watch so many college football games. Was there a player that you, you know,

you're going through this draft on Thursday, Friday, Saturday, that you wish they had drafted that they had a chance to draft? Yeah, yeah. Although, see, everything, there's a cost that comes with everything. You know, in the third round, I thought they could have moved up and gotten possibly Connor McGovern, Guard out of Penn State. They got Terry McLauran instead. I can't remember now exactly where McGovern went.

but I really kind of wanted them to address the offensive line earlier than they did. He went afterwards. He went several picks afterwards to the Calvaries. So he was there available. The thing is, though, with McCoran, they got faster. They got a security blanket and a familiar receiver for Haskins. And they improved their dynamism on offense, which they had to do. It's just that I just keep looking at this offensive line that has the potential to be so good,

but it's been so injured. and they need to improve their depth, which they did, by the way, with the two guards that they picked, center guards that they picked. But they also need to improve that left guard position big time. And if they're able to do that, see, keep this in mind about the Redskins offense, that no matter who plays quarterback this year or next, this Redskins offense for at least the next two years will not win by outduling their opponents from the pocket. They will win with a dominant running game.

And that left guard position has been a week. spot that has held them back. And so that plus injuries. And so it would have been nice if they had been able to address the offensive line earlier in the draft. But then you have to look at the draft and say, okay, well, who would you have taken an offensive line instead of? Okay, well, they got their franchise quarterback.

I kind of would have liked to see an offensive line in there. But I can't say that they made a bad pick. I think Dwayne Haskins will be a star when he's ready to play. And they keep on going down. Terry McLaurin, he's going to be a game breaker for this team. then you get to the fourth round and below, and all of a sudden you no longer have the plug and play offensive linemen available. So it had to be really in the first two or three rounds. So I can't say that they were wrong. I could just say it would have been nice had it worked out to trade up or

something to maybe grab somebody else on the line. All right. Last one, and I'll let you run. I mean, we're now through free agency or, you know, most of it. There will still be, you know, opportunities here as we approach training camp in August. The drafts completed. What's realistic? for the Redskins in 2019. In terms of wins? Yeah, in terms of the kind of season they could have. Yeah. You know, I think they could have a season that's better than experts you're projecting

right now. I saw an over-under Las Vegas number on them at 6th, and the expert that was putting it out there said, okay, he's picking the under. Here's the thing, though. If they can get that left-guard position addressed, now maybe it's Eric Flowers. Maybe it's West Martin or Ross Pierce Baker, who are the two guys that they drafted in the middle rounds. And I like both

of those guys, by the way. And maybe it's somebody they snag off of somebody else's roster after the cutler. But the thing is, the offense, if they can fix the left guard position, should be a steady offense as long as they protect the ball. Steady. Not stellar, steady.

The defense, however, with the addition of Josh Dweather's an edge rusher at Ruben Foster at lineback. Because keep in mind, that guy's like getting another first round pick. And if Foster has the desire that Junior Galette did to prove that he belongs in the league and gives everything he's got in preparation, then this defense will take another leap forward. We've got a lot of young corners and defensive backs that need to step up and prove that they were worthy of their draft position over the last couple of years.

But stopping the run better, which is what Foster can help do, and getting after the quarterback faster, which is what sweat can help do, will help those defensive backs not be exposed like they have been the last couple of years. I think the defense will be better with an offense that if it can protect the ball, puts the Redskins in a position to have a better season that people give them credit for. Yeah, I mean, if you just consider, and I think we all loved the talent and the possibilities and potential for the defense last year, and it performed through the first half of the season and then dropped off significantly towards the end.

but, you know, adding sweat Ruben Foster and Landing Collins to that defense, I mean, whether it's this year, Trevor, or in 2020 or 2021, there's a lot of, there's a young nucleus here. It's not the way they've built their football team in a lot of years past, but, you know, defensively, you know, they've stacked it with some talent and a lot of young talent. It'll be fun to watch it grow, hopefully. Yep, and the addition of sweat coming off the edge, really is a linchpin that brings everything else together in that front

because you've got Carrigan coming off on one side. Finally, he has an actual dangerous guy coming off the other. You've got guys like Matt Ionitis and Geron Payne and Jonathan out, guys that can push the pocket inside. So now you've got two edge rushers, one of them amazingly dynamic and one of them effective, Kerrigan. And you've got multiple guys inside that can push the center and guards into the quarterback's face. And all of a sudden, you have the makings of one of the best passers.

pressures in the nation. Now, let's let Sweat prove that he can do that at this level. I think you can. But my goodness, I mean, if you can stuff the run, which they can do when they're healthy with that line, and if you can get after the passer, which they will do better now with Montez Sweat. And by the way, Ruba Foster can blitz. I mean, he can come from all kinds of angles. Then all the other dominoes come into place for this defense, and that takes all the pressure off the office. I'm so excited to see this defense. It has the potential to be one of the best in the NFL. Yeah, you love Sweat, just like I do. I think it's going to, it's going to be the first time in a long time. We're going to be able to line up on third and nine. And as a fan

watching the game, expect somebody to beat a left tackle badly and make a play, which could be fun to watch. I appreciate this, as always. Thanks so much. And I'll talk to you soon, Trevor. Kevin, it's always great to join you. Thank you, man. All right, quick word about launch workplaces in Bethesda. They've got a brand new, beautiful, affordable private office solution for you and those that are looking to get out of their home to get work done or you've been looking for a new office. It's a beautiful new space, fully furnished offices, conference rooms, co-working desks, high-speed internet, complimentary drinks, a cafe, free parking and plenty of it, and 24-7 access. Now they've got locations all over town and you can find

all of those at launchworkplaces.com. The location in Bethesda is perfect. If you You live in the Upper Northwest Chevy Chase, Bethesda, Potomac area. It's very accessible right in that Massachusetts Avenue corridor in Bethesda. Call 240, 86714 right now. If you mention my name, you'll get a free two-day trial. That's 24086714 or go to launchworkplaces.com. All right, let's get to a little weekend DVR before we get to our Game of Thrones recap. Did you have a busy weekend?

Don't worry. We've got you covered. It's time for weekend DVR. Start real quickly with Dave Gettelman, the Giants GM, who really is a bad press conference. I mean, the press conference after night one on Daniel Jones was really embarrassing from a communication standpoint, and he came off as so defensive. Well, he doubled down this weekend saying that there were two teams that he knows of that we're going to take Daniel Jones before their second first round pick at number 17. Now, it was reported by some outlets that it was Denver and Washington, who were the two teams. But I don't believe that the Redskins were going to take Daniel Jones at 15.

I do believe that there were people in the organization, some football people that liked Daniel Jones. But Dan Snyder was drafting Haskins. Make no mistake about that. He was going to draft Haskins if Haskins was there at 15. And I just, I don't believe Gettleman really knows this for fact, and it's incredibly insecure and defensive sounding. Did you also hear what Gettelman said about how he knows that Giants fans are excited about the pick

because he ran into someone at the bagel shop who told him he was excited about it? I did not hear about that one, but he is wrong. Giant fans are not happy about the pick, but it's funny about this draft, again, not to beat a dead horse, but it's like, what do we really know? Like, he could be proven so right five years from now, or he could be proven dead wrong. But I'll tell you what, seriously, this Haskins and Jones thing is going to get compared by giant fans for years, certainly. I also, with respect to the Haskins pick at 15 and all the reports that were flying around, I would love to think that the Redskins somehow duped the Giants into picking Daniel Jones at 6.

I don't know that I really believe that, but I'd love to believe it because John Mara is really, when it comes to some of the ways he's handled certain situations that have hurt the Redskins like the $36 million salary cap penalty back in 2012. I think has been low-handed and really done some bullshit, dishonorable, dishonest stuff that hurt the Redskins immensely back in 2012. And I never, ever, and still will never, ever buy into that the Redskins did something intentionally wrong. I think they got submarine by one of the Blue Blood owners

and ownership families in the league, John Mara. And, you know, if the Redskins somehow dupe them into believing that no way would Daniel Jones make it to 17, because they'd taken him at 15, that's awesome. Josh Rosen put out a statement over the weekend. I'd just find it on YouTube. It's rather lengthy, but it was first class in the way he handled saying goodbye to the Arizona fans and thanking all of the Arizona people and teammates and management

and then saying, here I come Miami, get ready for a guy that's going to really work at it. I know that there were some stories that he unfollowed the Arizona Cardinals on Twitter. Okay. I mean, there were some stories and there are some real stories about Haskins and charging $50 for the draft party in Gatorsburg on Thursday night. when he said, I just want to be with friends and family. Yeah, well, as long as you paid 50 bucks, it was good, but I don't care about any of that stuff right now. Some of the stuff can be red flags, some of it can be warning signs, and some of it is to me, you know, very benign. It's a matter really of your personal perspective. I think the social media thing is worrisome at times with players.

I would definitely be checking a lot of it. I would be looking for the player that, is more concerned with personal brand and appears to be self-absorbed more than anything else. And maybe that's just because of our personal experience as Redskins fans with RG3. But for right now, I think Rosen will do well in Miami, and I'm not really overly concerned about any of the Haskins' branding company stuff and charging 50 bucks to get in. I mean, we'll see. We'll see, but for right now, let's just get to minicamp and see what he looks like with professional receivers. The hockey this weekend, I watched some of the hockey this weekend.

The Carolina Hurricanes have taken two in New York against Barry Trots and the Islanders, and both games were so good. The Friday night overtime game where it was nothing, nothing into overtime, and the Hurricanes won that game, won nothing was spectacular. and then the game yesterday was very good. Them coming from behind, they were down 1-0, entering the third period, they scored two goals. And here goes Carolina.

After upsetting the caps in the seventh and deciding game, they've taken two from the Islanders and remember how good that Carolina crowd was. They're going to be pumped up. The NBA playoffs real quickly, the game that everybody's talking about, at least those of us that are paying attention to the NBA playoffs,

was game one of Rockets Warriors. Game one of Rockets Warriors came down to the Rockets having the ball, down three, James Hardin, taking a three, and being fouled, you know, should have been called a foul because Draymond Green clearly landed in a space in which it looked like Hardin was coming down. There's great debate about this. You know, we've gotten away from, you know,

contact being the only way a foul is called and is reasonably called to now having to give the guy room to land. Hardin goes forward. He kicks his legs forward at times, not on every shot. Personally, I thought he was fouled multiple times in the first half by Clay Thompson, and I thought that that last one should have been called, but I wasn't upset in the moment that it wasn't called because he really made more effort on that last one to draw the contact with more feet sort of kicking out into a space in which the defender was going to land. But if you watch that play,

Draymond Green comes forward too, and there's hip contact. I thought it should have been called. It's really hard to officiate these games with the three-point line in the way in which players like Hardin and Durant and others are very clever in drawing fouls. bottom line is if there's contact there should be a foul called. Even if it comes after the release, there should be a foul called, and there was in that particular moment.

The thing that I hated about that game is that Chris Paul gets teed up. They shoot the tech. They have the ball. There's four and a half seconds left. Houston, I still think, had at least one time out, if not two, and they let Golden State throw the ball in and dribble the clock out. I don't get that. Like four and a half seconds to go.

It's a four-point game. I'd play it out. It's one thing if you're down seven, but if it's a two-possession game or less, I'm playing it out. I'm getting a quick foul. You know, you hope they make one, miss one, you get your time out,

you advance the ball, you get a quick three, and all of a sudden it's 105-103 with 1.1 seconds left. You know, you got a shot of another quick foul, a miss, or two makes, or one-make-one miss, and you got a chance to tie it with a three.

I don't really, I know it's sort of into this clock management, game management stuff. I just don't get it. I would never give up down four with 4.6 seconds left. With 4.6 seconds left. By the way, the ultimate was Saturday night. Game 7, Spurs Nuggets. This was crazy, and I'm sure most of you didn't see this.

But Popovich, you know, widely considered the greatest of all time, or certainly one of them. The score is 90 to 86 Denver late, all right? When I say late, 30 seconds to go and DeRosen misses a shot. It actually got blocked a little bit, may have been a turnover. It's hard to see whether or not there was, you know, whether the shot was, whether or not there was any hand that got onto the ball on the shot. But the bottom line was after that was missed. There were 28 seconds left in a four-point game in game seven.

Do you know what San Antonio did? They let the clock run out. Now, did they do it on purpose? Well, they didn't foul right away, which is what they should have done down for with 28 seconds to go. Everybody knows that. It's not debatable. They let Denver bring the ball up court, and finally with about 19 seconds, so about eight or nine seconds had elapsed, you see Pop get off the bench and start waving them up,

like, hey, we got a foul. The players just didn't do anything. Denver lets the shot clock get down to a second, you know, down to a second, which was like four or five seconds on the game clock, they launched a long three. By the time San Antonio grabbed the rebound, there was a second and a half left and the clock ran out. It's the strangest ending I have seen in a long, long time.

Popovich was asked about it, which at least somebody asked him about it, and he said, they didn't hear me, it was very loud. Well, you didn't get up and start screaming or even gesturing nine seconds after DeRosen had missed. I mean, how... It's game seven. 28 seconds to go, you're down four. They had timeouts left too.

They should have had no less than three offensive possessions left in the game. They got none. Criminal, when it comes to managing the end of a game, it was terrible. All right, I guess that's it. Let's get to our Game of Thrones recap. All right, there's our spoiler alert.

All right. So we've waited a long time for this. And I'm just going to start with this, Aaron. Overall, I mean, I was, you know, on the edge of my seat. I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that I didn't think it was good, but it was difficult. It was difficult, and I don't know if this is my age, my eyes, but it was too dark for much of the episode

to know what the hell was going on. I didn't follow a lot of the follow-up last night because I ended up getting onto a long phone conversation after my friend Scott Van Pelt just bothered the hell out of me. He doesn't watch Game of Thrones and he's texting me throughout the show trying to annoy me about it. But I really couldn't see. It was too dark

They should have had this battle play out at daybreak I You told me before the show when I said this to you That this was a major complaint So I'm glad that I'm not out there by my own On my own because I was thinking maybe it was my eyes Maybe it was my screen But I found it difficult at times to follow

Yeah for me I thought that there were a few times where it got too dark But for me it was really when they brought in this snow, some of the dragon stuff, that I thought it was really confusing there. John and Danny flying the dragons through the, you know, the blizzard or the snow had no idea what the hell was going on. When they were cutting back and forth between the different dragons, it was like, wait, did the Nike get it? No, no, no, wait, that was John. Wait, no, no, no, there's Danny.

Like, there were a lot of weird cuts in the middle of the fog. Right. I thought the darkness, like, I understood what they were doing there. Obviously, it's the Night King. You know, we've seen him at night before in the darkness. And they want to give you kind of the sense of dread, the sense of. the sense of foreboding, just kind of the constant confusion. And they had done this before,

a bit in the Battle of the Bastards and some of the The Hard Home. Hard Home wasn't hard to watch. No, Hard Home wasn't. In part because there was so much snow and it sort of lit it up. But as far as like kind of the crazy edits, the really quick pace, the frenzied pace, the way that it was kind of hard to track even during the Battle of

Bastards, even though that was during the day as well. It was kind of hard to track at times. They really like to do that as directors. But yes, I would have liked it to be just a little bit lighter and a little bit easier to follow. I didn't find it nearly as bad as some people, but I definitely understand the complaint. All right. I mean, I think that's a legitimate complaint. When you have perhaps arguably the most anticipated episode in the history of the series, I would not, I'm surprised that they

created cinematically a situation that was going to be a problem with some people. You know, I mean, you wanted to see the detail of this stuff. Even the Battle of the Bastards, I mean, There was a lot of stuff that, you know, you're like, oh, who was that? Was that John? Was that, was that Ramsey? Where is everybody? But it still, you had the overview and it happened during the day. You know, it happened in daylight.

I, um, that was the biggest complaint I had. Um, now let's get to what happened, I guess. You know, first of all, I will say that the very, at the very beginning of the show, um, the way they sort of led up dramatically before anything had happened, you know, had me on the edge of my seat. But when the Dithraki got snuffed out, you know, and it was that beautiful overview of all of the, you know, the lit fire and, you know, torches and, and all the sudden they just die out. You're like, oh my God. That might have been my favorite shot in the history of the show. Oh my God. It was an incredible shot. Yeah. Both, both the overview and then from just from

the lines, kind of looking into the distance and seeing the, like, slowly snubbed out. And then everyone's reaction, watching it. That was pretty dramatic. And Danny didn't, she, those were her, that would, those were her people. Yeah. And she immediately says, F that and jumps on the dragon. And, and I don't know, that certainly wasn't a part of the plan, I don't think. No, because they were supposed to stay close to brand.

Exactly. They were supposed to say, the dragons were supposed to be near brand. And that started the whole thing with, you know, and John flying around on the dragon for much of the show. You know, the truth of the matter is, you know, John didn't do shit in this episode. Not to DeNaris. Huh? Not that to DeNaris. Both of them were kind of, right.

There were a lot of featured players who made a lot of mistakes or otherwise didn't do much. Right. You know, and I guess if we were expecting, which I was, which was the, I was expecting this episode to be the end of the White Walkers and the end of the Night King. Because I just thought that the final three episodes are going to be people against people. You know, and a lot of the, you know, a lot of. you know, a lot of the zombies and undead and Whitewalkers taken out of it. There were so many memorable moments. I mean, certainly Lady Mormont killing the giant.

You know, it's interesting about what they did with her character, and I was thinking about this when she became such a big part of the final, or of the episode last night. She really became this compelling figure out of nowhere in this show. You and I were talking about this before the show. But remember the first sit down with John and Sonsa and Lady Mormont? She says, you know, I'll be there for you. And then they said, well, how many people do you have?

And she goes 17 or whatever the number was. And then, of course, her backing of John at that sit down for John to be the king of the north. And her calling out everybody that wasn't there for him at the Battle of the Bastards. You know, she and then she takes out the giant, you know, the giant zombie who we, of course, know, from previous episodes with him being alive. Right. That was really dramatic. And of course she dies with it, but, you know.

I mean, look, if I had a banner to raise and I could stand behind one person, it's Lady Mormon. Yeah. I mean, she, it's funny because her voice and her delivery were a little bit annoying at the beginning and then it became, I think, compelling. It all worked. Yeah, it all. It worked.

She was great. And that was out of all, even Theon later on, that one was the one that was most crushing to me. Right. What was? Lady Mormon? Yeah. No, that was not the most crushing death for me. I was actually thrilled to see what she did in the process.

The most crushing death for me last night. Actually, two of them, Jora and Theon. Theon became a very likable character that I was rooting for. You know, the reunion with Sonsa last week was very emotional, him coming back to help the Starks, coming back to Winterfell. There was something about, about Theon. And by the way, I think you and I talked about this last week, that we were expecting, especially since he offered to be there with Brand, that he was probably going to die last night. I thought so, but I also thought there was a chance that because the thing with Yaron hasn't been fully resolved yet, that there was a chance he to live. Oh, Yara's going to get.

And that's what's going to happen. Yara's going to get your own. But I think Theon's story arc was quite the journey overall. And part of me was proud of him because, you know, at the very end, he had big balls, even though he didn't have any at all, you know, in charging the Night King to protect Brand. And he kept Bran alive during that whole scene, which, by the way, you could see. You know, you could see everything there. And then Jora died in a way in which, of course, he would want to die.

And that was protecting Danny. I mean, in that way. But he's always been one of my favorite characters. Always. To me, I mean, obviously that was a moving moment. But like, that's exactly how I expected it to play out. I was already kind of mentally prepared for that one. I was just like, okay, he's dying, sacrificing himself for Dineris.

There's no question about that. And, you know, it happened. I love the Theon art. I love the way it happened. It's also because, you know, Theon, throughout the entire arc had been a coward when it comes to facing death. Yeah. And then he literally faces death in the face.

I was proud of him. And then he decides not just, okay, I'm going to fight you off, but I'm going to charge you. I'm not going to let this wait. I'm not going to let you come for me. I'm going to go ahead and charge him even if, you know, obviously it wasn't going to work. That's what he was going to do. He's going to be the exact opposite of everything he had been in the past. He should have screamed on his way.

out. My name's Theon. Don't call me Rique. That's what it was. You are a good man was him saying, you know, you are a man again. Great point. I loved when Brand said to him, you're a good man. It was recognition that he had over these last two and a half, three seasons done the right thing. He'd become, you know, fearless, really. He overcame that. And not Rieke. Yeah, exactly. And I, last week's reunion, with Sansa to me was an incredibly emotional moment. So I was, I think, you know what, he, he redeemed himself the bottom line before, before he went on. Well, there are clearly two huge

things we have to talk about. We've got to talk about Aria for sure, and we've got to talk about Milisandra and the way she came through for everybody last night. Why are you shaking your head? She was a surprise hero of the night. The funny thing, though, if you, you think about it, outside of giving Aria a pep talk, what did she do that actually mattered? Well, I mean, she lifted the Dothraki swords, which meant nothing. She lit the trenches.

Which stopped them for about 15 seconds. Barely. Right. Well, it was more than 15 seconds. It was like 10, 12 minutes, and then all of a sudden they started bursting through. But that was kind of my point. She did stuff, but the stuff outside of giving Aria the pep talk was ultimately

not that meaningful. She's, um, you know, the line, you know, about, you know, turning Aria loose about, what was the line? She was talking about, you know, brown, green, and blue eyes. She said, you know, I told you were going to close a lot of eyes, brown eyes, green eyes, and blue eyes. And that was, that was when Aria basically, you know, looked at her and said, we ain't done yet. And then she said, what do we say to the God of death? Yeah.

Not tonight. Not today. Not today. Not tonight. Seeing that play out, I think, was pretty cool. And then, you know what? The one thing that I love about what happened at the end of the show last night with Aria Killing the Night King is I'm just glad it wasn't John.

I don't know why, but I didn't want it to be John. And I know that there was a lot of discussion that it may be Aria. but it was it was perfect she's such a badass and everybody who watches this show doesn't like Aria it's funny because what you're saying right now

might be the most controversial thing online right now that she killed him not so much that she killed him but the fact that there are a lot of people who are complaining that it wasn't realistic it was you know how did she get there how did you know how did she go through the hordes of zombies how did she

get it. Like, well, how did she survive, you know, when she was down there hiding behind walls and underneath tables? They've been setting up this moment since really the beginning. Why was the hounds so scared there for, well, for, for a, because of the fire? A, the fire and B, I mean, look, a bunch of zombies. They're pretty scared. But yes, at first it was definitely a lot about the fire. I thought that that was weird that they made him look so, they made him look like he was hiding. He's always been a coward. With fire, only with fire. And there was a lot of fire. Yeah. fair and that was the only thing that could kill them. But once he found out that it was Aria, it was in trouble.

Yeah. But I mean, going back to Aria, though, like, I just want to address this because I've thought that of all the criticism I've seen, that was the most ridiculous one. Like, we're talking about Aria here who's been setting up this moment really, really since the beginning, because first of all, she knew, you know, there were lines about how she knew the castle better than it where she was always going through the pasties and turning up in places. You know, she is the super, she had home field advantage. She had home field advantage, so she knew every aspect.

She knew where to go. You know, we saw earlier in the episode her being able to sneak around, and the sound in that was perfect because you never heard her move throughout that whole library scene. Like, this is a person who's been trained as the most badass assassin in the world right now. So the idea that she can't sneak around is a crazy one. And even if you want to say, okay, well, I would have liked to see that because it would have been cool to see her going around. Well, then it just ruins the moment at the end. The surprise her coming out of.

nowhere and attacking him, you'll lose that moment if you see her going through the woods towards the Night King. So I don't get that criticism. And that's one that I'm seeing over and over again that I don't understand at all. I don't, I think the only criticism of the scene is just how completely unrealistic it may have been. And, you know, the fact that she had survived, all she survived last night. But that's been the show in so many spots over the years. I mean, How did John, how did he possibly survive the battle of the bastards? Forget John. You had Jamie and Brienne pinned against the wall with zombies around.

Like they couldn't have any room to swing their sword and somehow they survived. That's unrealistic. Her being able to sneak around based on what we know about her and what we've been seeing with her. That's not unrealistic. Or at least compared to this other stuff. All right. So let's go through the death count. Lady Mormont

Barich died last night Leon, the Knight King, Jora, Melisandra Eddard. Right, of course. But nobody really major character. Everybody's still hanging on and we've gone two episodes without Circe

in either one and now the final three. I'm actually really looking forward to the final three. You know, last night, I was looking forward to it. Not like perhaps you were, because I've said this before. To me, the show has been so much more rich in character relationships and dialogue for me than it has been all of the battle scenes. But what we get for the next three episodes is going to be spectacular. Because it's Circe and Uron. And by the way, what's left of the Dithraki and the Unsullied?

Well, what do they have left? of the Dothraki apparently. Dithraki are gone. What's left of the unsullied? You did have a good number of them retreat and gray worm. That was, to me, the most shocking thing that gray worm lived through the night. Right. Oh, I know. I thought for sure he was going to die.

There were multiple. He was dead in the retreat. Absolutely. It looked like he was dead in the retreat. So you have that. You have, I mean, look, you have, you know, setting up the Klugeen Bowl. That's definitely going to be a big moment, probably episode five. I'm thinking.

I mean, well, we also, by the way, we didn't mention this. We also didn't mention the brief conversation between Trian and Sonson. Oh, that was great. Yeah. Like, and they're teasing it. Yeah. They're really teasing it. They obviously, please, I don't want Sonson, Tyrion to marry before the end of this show.

I don't personally want that. Sonsa, whatever. I'm just, I'm rooting for, and I've told you this from the beginning, I'm rooting for either Sonsor or Ari to end up on the throne. More so than John or Dineris. I still think it's going to be John. It was, it was a, it was a very good episode, but for me, ultimately, it was frustrating to watch because there was just too much of it where I just didn't know what the hell was going on.

It was just too dark. Right. And I don't know why they would have made it so hard. It just seems to be, to have not really been necessary. But whatever. I do have one more complaint, and that's just me personally. You know, you kind of build up, like, you know, they had differentiated between the White Walkers and kind of the zombie hoard.

Right. The White Walkers did nothing last night. And that was a bummer. Yeah. Because, I mean, we had been seeing them forever. It was all about the zombies, the undead. Exactly. But I wanted to see the White Walkers do something before they died.

So I was a little bit bummed by that. Somebody said, a friend of mine texted me this morning, and I was going to read this to you because I was like, I don't think that's true. Where is it? Oh, he thought maybe Milsandra was the many-faced God instead. How would that? Like the actual God?

Yeah. the many-faced guy guy you know the guy with aria oh jack and her car yeah yeah yeah that didn't make sense to me it didn't no because i mean we we had seen her at the same time we saw what we also saw her remember in that one episode turn into the old lady well and that's that's what it was and yeah and we saw her at the end at the end yeah um no i don't i don't buy that i think if if you were going to say if you're going to try to play that out it's because she did say at the, you know, she dropped the, what do we say to the god of death. Yeah.

Like, that kind of came out of nowhere and was like, wait a second, you know, how does she know that? But I assume it's just kind of a common phrase out there because she said, you know, Valar de Harris, Valargoalist to Grey Worm. So she's been around. She knows the different phrases. She knows what people would see. No, I don't buy that at all.

I did think that was interesting to have that be the very last shot of the episode. Yeah. I guess that's just a significant. because she was always, you know. Well, one of the things is we needed to know for sure that, I mean, we guessed it that she was done. A, that she was done. And B, her whole thing, her whole arc, especially since Stannis went down, was, you know, I am here because I want to make sure that, you know, the knight, the evil does not succeed. That is my only purpose here.

So now that the Night King's dead, I can die too. I don't know how Jamie survived. I don't know how Brienne survived. I don't know how Sam survived. I, you know, there was a lot of real stretch last night, but that's been the history of the show. I don't know what Veris's role is anymore. I don't know what his purpose is. I'm just glad that he takes out Khyburn or helps take out Khyber.

Well, maybe. I'm glad Jamie and Brian are still there. I didn't think we'd lose Jamie last night because I ultimately think that Jamie more likely than not is the one that's going to kill Searcy. I guess, though. I think Sons is there's a chance it could be Sonser Teryan, too. I think Jamie, Jamie's the odds on favor, definitely. Yeah, Aria just got a huge kill. John's gotten plenty of them over the years.

We got more to come. We got more to come in next week. The last three are 80 to 100 minutes, right? So you're going to get all of the, anyone who wanted kind of, they miss the character drama. You're going to get that a lot next week as we head down to King's Landing. Oh, the one other thing we didn't talk about, how awesome was. Even though, like, it was a little bit blurry, the dragon fight.

Oh, yeah, that was good. but that was blurry too. Yeah, it was a little. I mean, it was hard to tell which dragon was which. Yeah. And, but whatever. I'm, we're going to get, I mean, we haven't gotten Searcy for two episodes. We even gotten Braun or Uron for two episodes.

Where's Bron? Is Bronn headed north to try to kill Tyrion and Jamie for all that gold? There's a lot that's going to happen. But it was, it was good. I think it fell short, though, in the ability to sort of digest it easily. That was my biggest problem with it. But anyway, have at it on the reaction, especially to Aaron on Twitter, because I'm not paying attention as much. Long show today.

Thanks to Trevor Madditch. Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to all of you. Back tomorrow. Enjoy the day.