The Kevin Sheehan Show - Redskins Draft Talk & Barry Svrluga on Tiger

Episode Date: April 17, 2019

Kevin opens the show with the surprising NHLresults and his latest thoughts on the Redskins' QB situation. Brian McNally/NBC Sports Washington joined the show to talk Caps. Barry Svrluga/Washington Post called in to talk Tiger vs Jack. Ben Standig/NBS Sports Washington sat down with Kevin for a lengthy discussion about the Redskins and their potential targets in the upcoming NFL draft. Lots of NFL Schedule talk throughout too. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. I am here. Aaron's here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com and tell them we told you to call. Well, see you Tampa Bay and see you Pittsburgh. Both gone in the first round of the NHL playoffs, both by clean sweeps. the caps, as of late last night, the caps are now the favorite to win not just the East Aaron, but they are the favorite to win the Stanley Cup this year. They are five to one favorite to win the cup, and guess who is right behind them at six to one to win the cup? Maple Leafs? Columbus.

Oh, after they took out Tampa. After they take out Tampa, sure. Yeah, as for the lightning, they become another president's trophy to bite the dust early. Listen to this. Four times in the last 13 years. I'm sorry, now five times. Five times in the last 13 years, a president's trophy winner. The team with the best regular season record has been taken out in the first round. Essentially, an eight seed beating a one seed. Now, the recent shift in playoff format where you're playing the division teams first doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to end up with an eight versus a one. But in terms of points, But eight versus one, for the lack of a better way of describing it, has now happened five times in the last 13 years in the NHL playoffs. The last time Vancouver was taken out by L.A. in 2012. The caps, you'll recall in 2010, fell to the Canadians in seven games in round one. The sharks to the ducks in 2009 and Detroit to Edmonton back in 2006. Furthermore, furthermore, Four of the past five years, in four of the past five years, prior to this year,

the President's Trophy winner has lost in the second round. The caps were two of those with losses to the Penguins and the Penguins. But Tampa Bay wasn't your run-of-the-mill President's Trophy early round loser. This is what we've been told all year long by the hockey guests that we've brought on. This team was the biggest postseason NHL Stanley Cup favorite in 12 years going into this postseason. They were nearly an even money favorite. I think it was a three to two favorite before the postseason started. The Lightning had 128 points in the regular season with a points percentage mark of 780.

That's the second highest for an 82 game season in NHL history. behind only the 95-96 Red Wings. They tied that Red Wings team with 62 wins the most recorded in the 100-plus-year history of NHL hockey. And by the way, they weren't just winning. They were crushing their opponents. They had the league's best power play, the league's best penalty kill. They were the highest scoring team on average since that Detroit team in the 95-96 season. Of their 62 wins, 30 were by a margin of three goals or more, which tied for the most since 1992-93. So what happened? Hockey happened.

That's what happened. Nobody had an explanation. I watched this last night, and then I watched the post game. Nobody had an explanation. I was listening to Cooper, the coach. He didn't know. Stamcoast had no idea. If you're looking for a rational explanation,

Consider this. Columbus was the hottest team entering the playoffs. Apparently, and I don't follow this stuff, as most of you know, apparently they made a bunch of deals at the trade deadline, and it took a while for everything to come together, and then they got hot, and they won seven of their last eight games, and they won seven of their last eight games by an average of three and a half goals per game. So they were rolling, and now they await the Toronto Boston winner, while the caps, If they can survive Carolina, they will get Barry Trots and the Islanders. Trots' team completed the sweep last night in Pittsburgh, and when that happened last night, it reminded me of a conversation, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Aaron, on this. I believe it was with Joe B., with Joe Beninotti. I think Joe B told us in the conversation that we had with him last week, that he had had a conversation with Barry Trots the last time the Caps faced the Islanders, and Trots had told him that he thought,

they matched up pretty well with Pittsburgh, and that he thought he had them, paraphrasing here, figured out. Well, apparently he had him figured out. He's now won six straight against the penguins in the postseason, the last two last year with the caps and four in a row with the Islanders, and now they await hopefully a second round matchup with his former team, Washington. Brian McNally from NBC Sports to Washington will join us in a few minutes and we'll talk about the caps who are actually off tonight. They were in that routine of, you know, every two nights playing a game here, but they're off tonight. Game four is actually tomorrow night in Carolina, so we will talk some caps with Brian here momentarily. Barry's Verluga is going to join us on the show

today. He was at Augusta, and he wrote a column yesterday about the Tiger Jack comparisons being back, and I think it's a very interesting conversation. We'll talk to Barry, and then Ben standing has been doing a bunch of NFL draft work. So we're going to bring him on and talk some draft with him. The NFL schedule comes out tonight. The leaks will start very shortly. And I wanted to mention this because most of you know how into the NFL schedule I am. I mean, I am the inventor of the NFL mock schedule.

I didn't copyright it, unfortunately. And now everybody does one, but whatever. I don't even care about this. I saw Michael Phillips did one, but gave you credit as the original. He did. Well, that's very nice of them. I don't need the credit. But I actually find it interesting that when I first did it years ago, so many people said, oh, my God, I do that all the time at home, trying to guess what the Redskin schedule is going to be.

And that's why I did it, because I did the same thing. I mean, you know, it takes a nerd to know a nerd. But anyway, I was looking, usually, you know, the day before and then the morning of the schedule release, you'll start to get some leaks. Some dude yesterday created a Twitter site, a Twitter handle called NFL Schedule Leaks. The actual handle was at NFL release. And he started just ripping out games. Like he's like, all right, here I'm getting pieces of the schedule. And he starts by saying schedule leaks will be coming soon.

If you remember us from last year, our source was correct with every game. game, and he starts releasing games. He's got, you know, Falcons at Texans, week 14, Sunday night football, New England at Philadelphia, Sunday night football, week eight. By the way, of all of the leaks, and he had about 16 or 17 of them, the Redskins weren't in any of them. Other than he did have the Cowboys, five games from the Cowboys schedule, which included a week 17 matchup with the Redskins at home, which, by the way, is how I mocked it out. So I looked at that. I'm like, oh, man, I got one right. And then I'm like, man, this dude has a lot of early access. Like, this is incredible. Where's he getting this from? Because you usually don't see this stuff until the morning or afternoon of,

a few hours before it's released. I remember last year there started to be a lot of leaks probably around like 2 o'clock. So he, after doing this for several hours, he puts out a tweet, well, this was fun. This account isn't actually real. I don't. I just was bored and wanted to hype some people, hype some people up for the schedule release tomorrow. I had zero followers on this account and now I'm at 6,000. If you all want to stay, I might turn this account to a football meme account. And now he's down to 2365 followers from the 6,000. But it was a complete fabrication. And it's funny because there's a guy that actually does more NFL schedule leak stuff, and he's been more accurate.

And during the day, and he's the guy that I had followed from previous years, and during the day he was like, I don't think this guy's real. I don't, I'm not, you know, I'm not completely blowing it off. Maybe he's got a really good source in the league, but I just can't believe that the Eagles are going to play three straight national television games, which I'm sure he just started rambling and ripping off, you know, fake games, and he didn't realize he had given the Eagles three straight national television games. television games. Anyway, people are interested in the schedule. You cannot get around the fascination

with the NFL schedule. And tonight, it's a two-hour show on NFL network, and I think an hour on ESPN, or I might have that. I think it's two hours on ESPN. Is it two hours on ESPN, too? So there you go. And that's what you're, that's what you're getting. Now, the league did announce the London games this morning, or the international games this morning, which, by the way, includes another attempt at a game in Mexico City. Chiefs and Chargers on November 18th, and there are four London games that precede those, including the Rams who are going to play a game in London

against the Bengals, and I believe that's a Rams home game that they're giving up. There's also a couple of those early 930 a.m. Eastern Standard Time Times starts from London. I think we always enjoy those. One of them's Carolina, Tampa, and the other one is Houston. and Jacksonville. One of the games last year, remember the Chargers-Jags game was a great game, a 9-30 early morning game from London. Anyway, you're going to start to see some of these schedule leaks come out. If you want to find a place, there's actually a really good thread on Reddit last year, and it's up again this year where they basically compile all the info that they can get from the

various beat reporters and stuff. They've already have, there's a week three Broncos Packers game that's up there as well as apparently we know one of the Thanksgiving games, Bears playing the Lions. Well, the Bears, John Orand had that first. John Orand was the first to tell you that the Packers and the Bears were going to open up the NFL season on Thursday night, September 5th, I think it is, or September 8th, whatever it is. Fifth, yes. And then the Patriots were going to play the Sunday night game. And he also, when he had that information, which is now a month, two months ago, thought that the, or the information he had is, It was Bears, Lions, Cowboys Dolphins, and Eagles Vikings. Okay.

Or Eagles, somebody, but he thought it was Eagles Vikings on Thanksgiving Day, that that was going to be the lineup, which meant that for the first time in three years, Redskins had played three straight Thanksgiving Day games in a row. They're not going to play on Thanksgiving this year. It'll be interesting to see what that Sunday night game is, because everyone's now indicating because of the Odell Beckham tweet that it's going to be Brown's Jets on Monday night football, not Sunday night. Oh, really? What did Beckham tweet? So Beckham, this was about a week ago. He said, saw the schedule, something about

like, you know, it's funny how things work out, and then he eyed like New York or something like that. Well, the Browns don't play the Giants, but they do play the Jets. Huh. So that's apparently looking like very likely that Browns and Jets are going to be Monday night football that first week. When you and I discussed this a couple of months ago, we figured it was either Patriots Chiefs on Sunday night or Patriots Browns. on Sunday night. And so here's the deal. The team that

doesn't play the Patriots on Sunday night football, the Browns or the Chiefs will likely have a Monday night game. My guess is one of the two will likely have a Monday night game. I think that makes sense. Now, if it's the Chiefs, it wouldn't surprise

me if it's at the Raiders, you know, in that second Monday night game, although putting Mahomes in that late game, which isn't the higher-rated of the two Monday night games that open up the season may be something they're looking to try to get him into the first game if they don't play the Patriots. But let's just say it's the Chiefs Patriots on Sunday night.

Then it makes sense that the Browns play the early game. And then I would guess personally that the Raiders are going to be involved in that second Monday night game because of A.B. Yeah. Well, it's always going to be a West Coast team hosting. Yeah, it's usually West Coast team, but it's also one of the, it's not usually one of the, like, high profile. West Coast team. We've had the Chargers there a lot. We've had the Rams 49ers there, I think,

before. But that was when the Rams 49ers. Have we had Seattle in that late spot Monday night? But that's what I'm saying is it's not usually one of the, you know, necessarily the quote unquote desirable. Well, the Raiders really aren't necessarily desirable, but they will be this year. That's why I think maybe they will be in that spot. Right. Exactly. It makes me for sense. Yeah, okay. So I think somehow the Raiders end up in that late Monday night window with Antonio Brown's debut in Oakland. Raiders Broncos. You have Flacco's debut. Yeah, that could be it. Yeah, that could be it. But it could be Mahomes at Raiders if it's Brown's Patriots. I think Mahomes at New England in the Sunday night game, as much as people are really building up Cleveland, Mahomes in New England on Sunday night in a

rematch of the AFC title game would be a hell of an opener. Not to mention a rematch of that incredible regular season game they played in Foxborough last year, which, was also, I believe, a Sunday night game, fairly early in the season, maybe early October or whatever it was. So that'll come out tonight, and we will be watching, and then we'll go through the Redskin schedule tomorrow. Real quick mention before we get to Brian McNally, Bill Barnwell, who writes these very worn piece-length stories on ESPN.com, and Tommy and I had a conversation about him, I don't know, several months ago, and I'm like, do you ever read Barnwell? And he goes, Who is he? And I knew Tommy knew who he was, but he's like, I just can't imagine that somebody would sit there and read these stories that Barnwell writes, which really are unbelievably long.

Well, this morning on ESPN, the headline had a picture of Josh Rosen wearing number three in a Redskins jersey. And it's a story by Barnwell where he proposes 32 wild trades before the draft or during the draft. And one of those trades is Washington trading for Josh Rosen. And what he says is he says the Redskins would trade Case Keenham and their number one overall pick, 15 overall, for Josh Rosen and the Cardinals' second round pick, which is 33 overall. So just shortly after the first round ends, it would be the first pick of the second round. And I just started thinking about Josh Rosen again, and not that we haven't done it a lot. We've done it a lot because it's a story, and it gets discussed virtually every single broadcast about the NFL draft and potential trades on NFL network and ESPN. In fact, Kuiper was talking about it very early this morning.

But to me, I want to just make, you know, we're a week away from the draft, a week from tomorrow night. just a little more than a week. I had this short conversation with Tommy yesterday, and a couple people tweeted me and said, so now you don't think it's going to happen? So here's where I am on this. First of all, I think it's really simple in terms of, from the Redskins standpoint,

in terms of determining if he's worth trading for. After the evaluation, you have to put him on your 2019 draft board. I don't know why it would be any easier than that. He has one year in the NFL, yes, but it was a year, a season in Arizona that was an absolute shit show. I mean, poorly coached team, injuries everywhere, bad talent, bad team. He had a couple of moments, but for the most part, statistically, he was dreadful. And I think you almost, you take that, and as part of your due diligence, you have to find out

what kind of guy he was, whether or not he loved football. what kind of worker he was, you know, what kind of leader he was. And by the way, a lot of the stuff coming out of Arizona here over the last week actually is very positive about Josh Rosen. Even Steve Kime, their general manager yesterday, said, you know, Josh is a first-rate kid and player, and he's going to be a really good player. But in terms of how you, you know, how you handle it from a Redskins standpoint, we've talked about this a lot over the last couple of months. it's really simple. You've got to put him on your 2019 draft board. You know, you have to determine where he is. Is he the 25th player, best player on your board? Is he the 10th best

player on the board? That's going to determine, you know, what you'd be willing to give up for him. And really, what, I think the way you think about it is it would determine an average compensation level of what he, of what you'd give up for him. Because at the position, you go a little bit higher for a quarterback in terms of giving up something for a guy that you think can play, let's say they have them rated as the 25th best player on the board and the third best quarterback on the board. But, you know, that puts him in the first round. You know, you may go a little bit higher, meaning the 15th pick overall because of the position. And also because you don't have somebody at that position right now. That is a major difference maker, short term or

long term. Case Keenham isn't a difference maker short term or long term, nor is Colt McCoy. Now, it's more complex from other standpoints, like, do the Cardinals want to trade him? We still don't know that for sure. What would they require for him? And would the two comp packages, what you'd be willing to give up and what they'd be willing to take, are they close enough for a deal to happen? And does he want to play for the Redskins? That is part of this. You just never know. If he doesn't want to play in Washington, it's not Arizona's problem, but it would be the Redskins problem. So anyway, netting it out, my updated prediction, which I alluded to yesterday and maybe didn't make as clear as I should have, my updated prediction is that there won't be a trade

for Josh Rosen. I'm not discounting it. I'm not saying it's not going to happen definitively. That's my lean right now. That's my gut right now, that there's not going to be a trade for Rosen. is what they do with 15. I still think a trade-up is possible for a quarterback. I think a trade-back is possible for potentially a quarterback. But my best guess right now, eight days from the draft is they stay at 15 and they take a defensive player,

a pass-rusher more likely than not. It's possible that Locker Haskins could drop to 15 and they could be, you know, they may reach for the quarterback there at 15 if it's Locke or Haskins. I hope they don't draft Haskins. I haven't liked Haskins from the jump going back to early in the college football season.

I like Locke, but I don't love any of these quarterbacks. Personally, I don't know that taking a quarterback at 15, Locke, Haskins, Jones, whomever it is, is really the wise thing to do. Now, it's an important position, and if they evaluate the guy and they think it's worth the roll of the dice, but I think a Locke-Haskins-Jones pick is more likely than not going to come up short of what they would get by taking a burns or a sweat or a legitimate pass rusher at 15. Anyway, let's do a quick Wind Donation read and then we'll bring in Brian McNally.

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All right, let's bring in Brian McNally, who, well, we've already had him on the podcast, I think once or twice and had him on the radio show for many years talking about everything that he's covered over the years. He's with NBC Sports Washington right now. You can follow him on Twitter at B. McNally 14. He is a Gonzaga Purple Eagle.

He's a Terp, and he's covering the caps right now as NBC Sports Washington's caps, one of their caps insiders. And I have to start with actually what I opened the show with today, which is just, I don't know that we should be stunned by this anymore. But the nature of Tampa Bay, this particular president's trophy winning team, which was one of the, the biggest favorite in 12 years in the Stanley Cup playoffs going in, they had, you know, the most points since, you know, 95, 96 Red Wings. They had all of these, all of these accolades that went with not just the best record in hockey, but one. one of the best regular seasons in NHL history, and they are out in four straight. How did it happen? Yeah, Kevin, I mean, it's not a surprise anymore.

The President's trophy winner does not often advance to the Stanley Cup final. How good you all? I think the lightning were maybe two to one odds to win the title. That's ridiculously high because of the teams that you're going to have to play to get there. and the shock here is how it happened. The shock here is that it went four games and they were up at 3-0 in the first period and all that.

But I don't care how many weapons you have. I don't care how much, you know, how many goals it's for during the regular season. We saw this with the 2010 tops. They were the better team than Montreal that year. That banner should probably be hanging in Capitol One arena. It's not because it doesn't always work this way. And this sport is chaotic and unpredictable.

That's why it's fun, but it also can leave you with some crushing losses. And the lightning suffered an Alzheimer's this week. It was shocking, but maybe we shouldn't be surprised because best record in the league at this time of year, as Nick Baxter told me the other day, but those easy goals you score in the regular season, those easy points that you rack up, they're gone. Those don't exist anymore. and the lightning never adjusted.

Kevin the caps learned a long, long time ago, and it still rears its ugly head here with teams almost at a reserve. Yeah, I mean, I just said 15 minutes ago, hockey happened. That's what happened. There's just not much of an explanation. Although this particular explanation, if you're really trying to come up with one, is just that Columbus has been on a role now for three weeks, and they've been killing people.

They were crushing people at the end of the regular season, and it carried over into this postseason. And I wonder, you know, I pulled up the odds this morning, the updated Stanley Cup odds. The caps are now the favorite to win the Stanley Cup. But the second favorite is Columbus. You know, the caps are a five-to-one favorite right now, at least on my site, the site that I use.

They're five-to-one to win the cup. And Columbus is six-to-one to win the cup. They're the second favorite. So I'm wondering if, you know, the hockey people, and you follow this sport more than I do, if you view Columbus as a legitimate threat to win this thing? Yes, absolutely. I said this. I literally told our good buddy, Tim Murray, that on his show a week ago that Columbus was a good long shot to take.

You were looking for value, in part because they almost beat the caps last year. Right. I know it went six. I know the caps kind of took control of that series, but they were up to nothing, and they played them hard. They're a tough team. The other thing they did, Kevin, they added at the deadline. They have pending free agents all over that roster. At the trade deadline, Columbus could have thrown in the towel. They could have said, you know what, we might make the playoffs, we might not make the playoffs.

Forget it. Let's trade Artine Panarin. Let's trade Sergey Bobrovsky. They went the other way. They added a couple of key players, specifically Matt Nishia. Shane has had a fantastic playoff series. And they loaded up and said, we're not going to make our fans wait.

We're going to go all in. And that's made them an even more dangerous threat. And so they were an eight seed in name only. It was a bad matchup for Tampa. Obviously Tampa is the better team. They should have won the series. They should have had a better showing. But Columbus is no joke.

And, you know, people are going to say, well, it's wide open for the caps now, as they can survive this Carolina series, it's not wide open. Those teams are going to pose a formidable challenge, whether it's Columbus, Boston, or Toronto. Yeah, I tend to agree with you, and I don't even know what I'm talking about. On the Caps, that was a beatdown like I don't think we've seen with them in the postseason in recent years, even when they've lost series. I mean, people were comparing it, I guess, to the game seven at home against the Rangers in 2013, where they really you know, went out with their tail between their legs at home.

But it was startling to see not just the shot differential, the score differential, but it's like you're watching this game and the Caps could barely get it out of their own zone. You know, it was such a dominant performance. Does this concern you? They're up two to one. They've won two out of the three games. I don't know if they've outplayed Carolina for the majority in these three games. What do you think right now?

How does this series stand in your mind? Yeah, 100%. I pick the caps in seven, Kevin. I always thought this would be a difficult series. Carolina was known for putting shots on goal. They lead the league. They will shoot from anywhere at any time. The cap, we're always going to be in for a bit of a fight here,

and they're not going to win the shot battle. That's just not going to happen because it's what Carolina does, and so it's not to look at the cap kind of hump and look for higher, higher level opportunities. Naturally, that's going to result in lower shot totals. That's fine. Two different ways to do things. But when it's this, when the disparity is this big,

when the disparity is, you know, I think I looked it up yesterday, it was like 81, 5 on 5 shots for Carolina, 30 fast to the caps. When you're almost, when you're getting doubled up, that's not going to play. That's not sustainable. They can be outshot by a certain amount. They cannot be outshot by that much, and you definitely can't lose the special team's battle when you do get out shot by that much. So the blue pinches in the Philippines beat them this way in 16 and 17. They would throw 18 shots at Braden Holphy, but they'd score four times.

And that's how they advance. And the caps are kind of trying the same strategy here, and it may still work. But I would be definitely concerned with the way, especially the Michael Kempian, injury has so kind of thrown the blue line out of whack in terms of who plays with who and what minutes guys are getting, it just doesn't look like a team in sync and against the team like Carolina that's relentlessly aggressive, that's a bad combination. Brian, thanks so much. I love catching up with you and we'll do it hopefully if they continue to advance here again. Follow Brian on Twitter at B. McNally 14.

he does a lot of other great stuff for NBC Sports Washington as well. Appreciate it. I'll talk to you soon. Sounds good, Kevin. Thank you. Thanks to Brian Capp's tomorrow night, game four in Carolina. All of our Caps coverage here in their postseason is presented by Mamma Lucha restaurants. The Mama Lucia Caps Hockey Special is in full effect. It includes a chicken parmesan dinner and a large pizza priced to move. $30, just $30.

for a chicken parmesan dinner and a large pizza. But if you order online at mamaluchia restaurants.com and use my promo code, Kevin Caps, all lowercase, K-E-V-I-N-C-A-P-S, you'll get $10 off the $30 price, making it a great deal for just $20. By the way, pickup and delivery, both offered with the Caps promo special using my promo code, Kevin Caps. And by the way, you can order gift cards. You can, for people, if you're out of town, you can call 443, 532, 5186.

That's 443, 532, 5186, and get a gift card for a Caps fan in town so that they can order this special. But again, Mama Lucia Restaurants.com. Use my promo code, Kevin Caps, to get a large pizza and a chicken parmesan dinner. All right, let's bring in Barry's Verluga from the Washington Post. I've been wanting to talk to Barry since the Tiger win over the weekend. He was down there for all of it. And then you wrote a column yesterday titled After That Win, Tiger versus Jack suddenly a debate again. And it's funny because I have three boys, all of whom love golf, two of whom love Tiger Woods,

and one of whom just sat there and just berated me late Sunday night about how it wasn't even a comparison that Jack, can't hold a candle to Tiger Woods. And it wasn't an evolution argument, an equipment argument. It was a numbers argument. And he's going through, you know, the missed cuts and the number of opportunities that he wouldn't have, that he would have had had he not been injured. And he'd be well past Jack if he didn't have all these years of lower back injury, et cetera. But anyway, you wrote about it. And I want to get to that here shortly. But before that, you've covered so many sporting events, great sporting events over the years. I saw, sat there Sunday just in awe of what I was watching. I tried not to exaggerate it here on the

Monday show. I just called it simply the greatest sports comeback of my lifetime, you know, given where he was a year and a half ago. And one of the more compelling sports watches ever was to see Sunday happen, Saturday and Sunday, for that matter. You were there. What was it like? Well, it's all of that, right? And you're viewing it not, with Tiger, you're never are viewing it within just the context of the four days that the tournament happens. And I think that was true in 1997 when he won his first major, his first master's, because it had kind of societal implications at the time. There were, you know, it made a whole group of people think that something was possible,

that they were excluded from something that they now might be included in. There was all of that. but this time it was much more personal about a person that as much as he has tried to keep the public out over the years, we feel like we know his journey because so much of it is public, right? It's not just the back injuries and the back surgeries and the knee injuries and the knee surgeries. It's the personal struggles going back to Thanksgiving 2009 and the scandal that unfolded then. Also recently with the DUI just within the last couple of years. So his life is there for us to examine,

and so the comeback is there for us to examine as well and to appreciate. The comeback in sports and golf that I hear most commonly linked to Tiger and that people saying it surpasses Tiger is Ben Hogan coming back from a horrific car crash that really shattered his body. He rebuilt it and went on to win majors after that. As you said, Kevin, that's not in our lifetime. This is the one for us. And to be on the course, I've said this a couple times,

the T-time's getting shifted up to the morning helped me personally, because normally I can't be on the course in the back nine. I've got to be in front of a computer, being able to write quickly, right as it's happening. This afforded me more time. I walked the entire round with Woods, And just to feel it out there was, I hope I don't forget it because it was really amazing. You know, in comparing it to some of the great comebacks in the history of sports,

I mean, you know, there's always the talk of Ali winning his third title against Leon Spinks in 1978 or 79, whenever it was. You know, the Jordan, you can't really compare it to Jordan. He was out playing two years trying to play Major League Baseball, and he was still at an age where he could compete. I actually mentioned Andre Agassi the other day. You know, Agassi really had an incredible, you know, follow-up act. I mean, he had fallen to, you know, 141 in the world and was playing satellite tour events to get back onto the tour. And then he had this incredible second act where he was winning majors

and competing for majors in a sport that's, you know, grueling physically. And I always, I think that's one of those comebacks that's always been underrated in sports because, you know, I guess it's just, it's tennis, and nobody pays as much attention to it. But back to Sunday for a moment, as this was developing, did you think he was going to win? Like on the front nine, or before they got to 12, did you think he was going to win? I didn't. I mean, and I was saying it over and over. I didn't think he was going to win in the morning. And I watched primarily with my friend Michael Rosenberg from Sports Illustrated. who wrote the cover story for SI this week on Tiger's win.

He thought Tiger was going to win, and I thought he wasn't for a very specific reason. I thought that the six to eight to ten foot putts that you have to make at Augusta, forget rolling in bombs or lagging to a foot like you have to do on the par five. I thought those putts, whether they were for birdie or bogey, there would be two or three of them that he would not make that would cost him the tournament. And I was wrong, and I'm totally. happy to say I was wrong.

I also but I would give him an enormous amount of credit not only for making those puts but for thinking, out thinking his competition. He made a par at 11 that is probably going to go

underrated as a turning point in that round because he was well right of the trees, pulled off a spectacular second shot. You know, fortunate that he had to look at the green and made par from probably his worst drive of the day. And then at 12, which, you know, so many masters have turned at 12,

and it's kind of appropriate that this one did, Molinari, who's such a steady player and an accomplished player, and who had beaten Tiger at Parnoosey in the British Open last year when they played in the same group, he hits first. He has the honor, and he goes at that pin on the right, even with a swirling wind. he takes an extra club and tries to knock it down a little bit with the eight iron and hits it obviously off the bank and into the water.

Tiger, I'm convinced if he had had the honors, he wasn't going out that flag. He's playing 50 feet left of it, right? And so he, you know, he sees everything. I think an underappreciated thing about the television coverage there is 11 green and 12T and the 12th green and the 13th hole, Amen Corner, is not only A-Man Corner because of everything that happens there, but you can see if you're a player, all of it. So Tiger knew when he was on the Green at 11

that Kepka and Poulter in the group ahead of him had just hit it in the water. He was thinking at that moment, if I can get out of 11 with a par, I'm not going to mess up on 12. Maybe others will. And it turned out that Kepka, Poulter, Fienow, and Molinari all hit it in the water there.

He made a boring two-cut par that turned the entire day. Yeah, I mean, you know, I think he started in the British Open when he had the lead going to the back nine. I think he went bogey, bogey on 10 and 11, if my memory serves me correctly. And I was thinking the same thing because he bogey 10 after, you know, a bad drive and then was in trouble on 11 and made par. And that was a huge par. I think the biggest shocker for me, and I agree with you, I felt the same way. I was just curious as to how you felt in watching it. I just didn't think Molinari would break.

Like he had been just so steady. And I also felt like Kepka was going to make some sort of big back-nine run. And it would eventually be a Molinari or Kepka win. But the Molinari falling apart at 12 and then 15, to me, was the biggest shocker of the day. Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all. The one at 12, I think, is a moment that's kind of perplexed many Masters contenders over the year. I mean, Jordan Steve, who's won this thing, you know, put one in the drink off the tea and one in the drink from the drop area as a pivotal point in a loss after he had won. But Molinari didn't seem to have that in his game.

And I would say that the meltdown at 15 was worse. it's a scoring hole. He put himself left there, and he said afterwards, you know, he's going at that pin because he thinks it should be a birdie hole, but he could have taken the tree out of play by playing to the middle of the green. At that point, he didn't, he made two mental errors, and they both ended up in the water, one at 12 and one at 15, and lost himself the tournament.

I think that does take away from Tiger's mental superiority, but you can't analyze the round and not think that, that Molinari didn't make two crucial errors. Yeah, no. And look, Tiger would have played 18 differently had Kepka made the put on 18, I think. For sure. So that would have, and I, that was another surprise. I was surprised that Kepka missed that putt because he's been so, you know, so clutch here over the last couple of years. Yeah, there's an interesting point there. I mean, they've remade the 18th green and,

and that put that is always broken, stayed straight or played. I mean, Tiger said the same thing about his put on 18. It's just a subtle, subtle difference. Kefka thought he had it read perfectly, and he missed it. But you're absolutely right that that had an impact on how Tiger played the hole. He had hit his drive when Kefka was on the green. The ball had some mud on it, and he said not only was he trying to play,

extremely safe play it right to take six out of the equation. But he also poorly executed the shot. That's why it was so far short of the green. It was the worst version of that shot. It would have been really interesting if Kepka had made the put. Now Tiger's got to make four. He'd have to go for the green with that mud on the ball. It would have been really fascinating to see how that would have worked out. All right. Before we get to what's next for Tiger, I just wanted to repeat this observation that I made on Monday and get your thoughts on it. He is, to me, the most compelling watch in sports. He's the biggest needle mover in sports.

Tommy had mentioned Mayweather and some other people from boxing here recently, whatever. Tiger's a massive needle mover, and he's must watch, and he's a compelling watch, and he's a charismatic watch. Yet, with all of the great superstars in any sport, have we ever, you have to sit there in a press conference with him and ask questions and watch him handle it. questions. Has there ever been a more boring interview than Tiger Woods? He's got nothing to say. So I actually think he's grown and developed a little bit over the last years and particularly

through the physical struggles. I thought he was more reflective. I thought he was more honest about you know, look, I couldn't get out of bed. I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this again. Look, I'm not saying he's Phil Mickelson or, you know, any number of people who are great with the media. He has grown up essentially being interviewed his entire life. Bryce Harper is that way, too. Bryce Harper can slip into, I'm just kind of answering the questions blandly, and this is, you know, it's a rote mode, and I'm, you know, press this button and I'll say this. Tiger has that same thing because they've been doing interviews. their whole life. I think Tiger in victory is a worse interview than Tiger struggling to find

himself because you get a more honest and raw version of him than you do when, well, I won again, and I've done this a million times. I thought he's in general improved in that regard. Yeah, you know, this isn't a criticism. I'm just saying it's an observation, because I think he is very mechanical and I think he's very guarded. And I also think for someone who's performed, as a performer has so much charisma. He's a charismatic performer. Yet when you get him in front of a microphone, even one-on-one, you know, I watched all the one-on-one interviews, you know, he, look, he's lacking in sense of humor. For starters, that will always help, you know, loosen up the crowd. You know, and I know he has some sense of humor, but it doesn't come

throwing that. But anyway, I was just curious as to your thoughts. I want to talk about the Jack versus Tiger debate. You wrote about it yesterday. So if someone came up to you and said, right now, who do you take? Who's the greatest golfer in the history of the game? Is it Nicholas or Tiger? What's the answer? Well, okay. So I think you can simultaneously say you don't think the Tiger will pass Jack in Major's title and say you consider him to be the greatest golfer of all time. I think those those can exist in the same place because, you know, as your son was pointed out, Tiger lost all these years to injury. You know, we're talking 11 years since his most recent major title. Even though, even though Barry, he was the best player in the world there in the, you know, in 13, in

2013, yeah. He got back to number one. That's totally true. And I think it was five tournaments that year. But he didn't win a major, and that's how he was always going to be evaluated. That 2008 U.S. Open that he won on the broken leg at Tori Times, his most recent major before Sunday, he was 32 years old at that point. When he won his most recent master's in 2005, 14 years ago, he was 29. There was no way, no way you could say to a serious golf person,

this guy is not going to win another major for the next five years, let alone 10 or 11, another Masters for 14. You could not say that. His peak, which were well beyond, we're more than a decade beyond, his peak is, it beats Jack's peak. Jack had, Jack's 18th major, was at age 46, that was the outlier. one two, the year he was 40, so won the rest of his career. I wonder whether this is going to be the one, the rest of Tiger's career or not.

I think that's the win on Sunday makes those questions, which as recently as a week ago were not legitimate, it legitimizes them again. Jack had all the runner-ups, all the second-place finishes at majors. Tiger, you know, as you said, his peak is untouchable. In fact, I mean, I don't know. I tend to agree with you. I think you said it really well that he doesn't need to win, you know, 18 majors. He doesn't need to win another three to be considered the greatest of all time already.

But if he, but I do think, and I guess that's the next question, I think he's going to win more majors, do you? So I think that also could be parsed too. Do I think he can win more majors or another major? For sure. I mean, he can win next month at Bethpage. he won the 2002 U.S. Open there. That's where the PGA Championship, which is this move from August is.

He's obviously won a U.S. Open at Pebble Beach, which is where this year's U.S. Open is. Tiger at his best can win on any track, and I still think that's the case. But you have to understand how many majors three to tie and four to beat Jack are. I mean, that is for a lot of people a career. Phil Mickelson,

right. Shue in Hall of Famer, second best golfer of his generation, has five majors over the course of his entire career. Three, at Augusta, where, you know, you kind of consider him half-owning the place with Tiger. Tiger, by winning at 43 years and change on Sunday,

did not enter into the top 10 list of oldest golfers to win a major. He's 11th. If he won at Beth Page, he would push himself into the top 10. But no one who has won a major at an age older than he is right now has won multiple majors at that age or older. So the clock is a real thing. As much as physical fitness and nutrition and equipment

kind of level things out a little bit, it's unprecedented for somebody 43, 44, 45 to win multiple majors. Maybe he'll do it if you're going to bet on one person to do it, It would be him. It just hasn't happened before. It's such a great way to put it to say, you know, when someone says, well, now the floodgates are going to open, he's going to win three, four, or five more. Hall of Fame golfers, Hall of Fame golfers like Raymond Floyd and Ernie Else have only won four in their long careers, you know?

And so to win three more would be incredible. The thing that we know, though, is if he stays healthy and that's a big issue, you know, the fitness and all of that, he's going to have potentially 10 more years. I mean, I said on Monday that it will not surprise me at all if he leads a major on the final day in his mid-50s at some point. Now, again, presuming health, but we saw Tom Watson lead the British Open at 59 years old. We've seen other, you know, Greg Norman, I don't know how many years ago that was, he was in the lead in the third round at the British Open at 56. something years old. Tiger, with his fitness, I would think at some point in his 50s, he's going to lead a major. I don't think that's crazy at all. The one caveat there, though, is he admits

he can't put the work in like he used to. He can't even, I asked him about putting on Tuesday before the tournament started, and whether, you know, he's talked about, I got my clubhead speed back, I can hit the ball out there like I used to. But can you become a great putter again once you've lost that? And he said, yes, you can. You've really worked on it. But he said, quite frankly, I can't put the hours in at any part of my game like I used to because my back bothers me. And if that includes putting, you know how much he's still managing it.

So can he lead and win into his 50s? I think the examples that you cited, particularly Watson and Norman at the British, would allow you to think yes. And I think because he knows Augusta so well that that would be a good place. You know, Freddie Couples is obviously contented there in those 50s. That would be a place that you might bet on him. But if you flip it back to the conversation about Jack, you're asking him to do that multiple times, and not just twice, three to tie, four to win. That just becomes harder and harder in my mind. By the way, is he going to play Wells Fargo or he's not going to play, he's not going to play the Byron Nelson, but is he going to play Wells Fargo before the PGA?

I would guess that would be the one place he would play. He said on Sunday that he's going to play fewer events than he did last year. He played a lot last year because he was trying to qualify for things like the Ryder Cup team and the Tour Championship, which he eventually won. He doesn't have to do that anymore because he's got, you know, he won the Tour Championship and now he's won the Masters. so all the exemptions come his way. But I would expect a very limited schedule from Tiger Woods, you know, because the majors are also compressed now, right? April is the Masters.

Yeah, mid-May, mid-June, mid-July. Yeah, that's exactly right. And so I would not expect it. I would say Wells Fargo would be the one place between the Masters and the PGA. By the way, you know, I mentioned this to Tommy yesterday because we were talking about, you know, Tiger and how much the need. moves and it was a morning masters, but the numbers were still ridiculous. And imagine with a Pebble Beach, East Coast, Prime Time, you know, on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, it will set

all television records for golf if Tigers in the hunt in prime time at Pebble Beach. And to add to that, I mean, imagine what the crowds are going to be like at Bethpage, because that is a raucous, a truly raucous environment for that sport if Tiger's got a shot on Saturday or Sunday at Bethpage. His presence or potential presence kind of legitimized presence changes the sport like nobody else changes a sport. There's nobody, I mean, not to get self-involved, but I had, I knew going in on Sunday, if Tiger Woods wins, I'm writing the front page story in the Washington Post, which turned out to be a massive picture above the fold in the biggest most prominent place in the paper, there's no other player that could do anything that gets treated that way in this sport. It is a niche sport for

everybody else. It is beyond mainstream for Tiger. All right. Last thing before I let you run, college basketball. Virginia wins the NCAA championship, and I wanted your thoughts on this. I talked about how Virginia and their results over the last six years, four regular season titles in the last six years, the constant top five ranking, you know, two number one overall seeds in back-to-back years that while I always loved when Maryland was competing with North Carolina and Duke in the ACC, and Maryland was always the third best program in that league for many years through various coaches, Lefty and Gary alike, it was never Carolina or Duke. Like they just were always, you know, they, they just were below Carolina and Duke. And I recognize

that as a Maryland person, but it was great to compete in that situation anyway. Well, I think Virginia, not perception-wise, but reality-wise in the last six years has become Duke and Carolina. The numbers say so. Do you agree or not? I totally do. I mean, and, you know, you're not going to, that doesn't mean that UVA, Carolina is suddenly the marquee game in the ACC or nationally as opposed to Duke Carolina. No, no, right. But if you just do the math, and they were going to be scarred by losing to UMBC until they provided a result that overshadowed that. Now they have provided a result in the most immediate way possible to overshadow the historic

loss to the 16th. In order to get you to say what you just said that they have surpassed Duke and Carolina or become equal with Duke and Carolina, they needed to win a national championship. They won a national championship. They have the most recent national championship in the ACC. Duke hasn't won since 2015. The thing that Maryland didn't do through those years with the Dixon, and they didn't back it up. Duke won and 01.

Maryland won the following year in 2002, but it wasn't like then when Carolina won, Maryland responded with another one. It was a tight era. It was a great career for Gary and getting the program back to where it should have been, with the peak being the national title. The test for Bennett now was a more sustained kind of period of national relevance right at the height in that top five than Maryland did back in the day. The test is with a completely new group of.

players, Hunter, Guy, Jerome, all likely gone. Can Bennett sustain it and get back to another final four, which the Terrapins didn't do after O2 or win another national championship. That's kind of the test now. Yeah, and I think part of it too is, you know, even, well, you're 100% right. Virginia needed the championship on their resume after what happened last year. But the other part of the four, the six-year run is they finished in the top five, four times. You know, Maryland for Gary's 12-year run of Sweet 16s and a final four in a national championship, they were rarely in the top five. They were always somewhere between seven and 17, you know, in the rankings.

Virginia's been a constant in the top five for like four or five out of the last six years. Yeah, there's no doubt. So anyway, it goes to what Bennett has established there, that they're very specific about who they recruit and what the intentions of their recruits are when they get there. They're not going to have, you know, DeAndre Hunter is the best player on that team just physically, right? He was redshirted at Virginia. That happens nowhere else in the country. You are preparing there to play Tony Bennett's brand of basketball for a number of years while you're there.

It gives the program a real identity, you know, When you sign up to go there, you know exactly what you're in for because the blueprints in play. All right. We could have a conversation, and we probably will at some point about whether or not Mark Turgeon got enough done this year. It doesn't matter. He's coming back, and that's fine. You know what? Actually, you know what's interesting?

And I haven't mentioned this today. The Rick Barnes comments. Aaron, did you see what Rick Barnes said about the UCLA job? I did see that? Barry, did you see Rick Barnes essentially saying that, I did, yes. That was stunning to me. So stupid.

It was ridiculously stupid. For what, by the way, I've been told, is a relatively smart guy, and I think a hell of a coach over the years. But for those that missed it, he essentially said to Tennessee Nation, Tennessee Media, that if UCLA had paid the buyout, he'd be at UCLA. Well, he's not at UCLA. Mick Cronin's at UCLA now, and he's still at Tennessee. why would you ever admit that? The only reason is ego. You want, in a weak moment, you say,

you want people to know you could have been the UCLA coach if it wasn't for finances. Not, you know, leaving out that there were other people they pursued Calipari, Jamie Dick, before they even got to Rick Bond. You're only the third or fourth choice anyway, and you risk alienating a fan base that has its ears pricked up

for any sort of slight and any sort of weird second rate because go back to the lane kiffin thing you know he was there a year he left for USC Tennessee people want their point he want their coaches to think of them as a destination not a stopping point and Rick Barnes while he's staying I wouldn't be surprised if he managed to alienate a bunch of Tennessee fans of the problem I I couldn't believe how stupid it was and it's a great point I mean you made very good points there but the other thing about the UCLA job had Barnes gotten it. The point that you made about him being the second, third, or fourth choice was really, maybe he felt slighted and just wanted people to know that he would have been the UCLA coach. But, you know, if he had taken the UCLA job, it would have been the

first true example of a basketball school, if you even want to call UCLA that anymore. Because he has been, Gary told me three or four years ago, he said, you know the smartest guy in the businesses, Rick Barnes keeps getting paid huge money to go coach basketball at football schools with no pressure. And it's true. It makes a ton of sense. Clemson, Texas, and Tennessee in order. And by the way, the last two places could really pay. You know, he makes pretty good money. Certainly made a lot of money at Texas. All right, that's it. I appreciate the time, as always. And I'll talk to you soon. great stuff on Tiger and read Barry's column on Tiger and Jack from the post yesterday

and follow Barry on Twitter at Barry's Verluga. Thanks as always. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate it. Thanks to Barry's Verluga for joining us. A quick word about Launch Workplaces and then we'll bring in Ben Standing. Launch Workplaces has a brand new facility in Bethesda. If you live in that Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Upper Northwest D.C. area, maybe just over the American Legion Bridge,

in Northern Virginia and you're looking for new office space or you're working from home and you want to get out of home, check out the new launch workplaces in Bethesda. They've got flexible and affordable private office solutions so you can get work done. It's a beautiful new space, fully furnished offices, conference rooms, co-working desks, high speed internet, complimentary drinks, they've got a cafe, they've got free parking and 24-7 access. You can get more work done today by moving your office to launch workplaces. Call today for an exclusive free two-day trial

240-86714 or visit launchworkplaces dot com today. Mention my name, you'll get an exclusive free two-day trial. They've got other locations throughout the area. You can find all of those at launchworkplaces.com. All right, let's bring in Ben Standing from NBC

Sports Washington. NBC Sports Washington guest number two on the day. We had Brian McNally on a little bit earlier. Ben's been doing a lot of NFL draft stuff, but before we get to that, we open the show talking about the NFL schedule, and I mentioned there were going to be leaks that would start to come out this afternoon, where the leaks are coming out right now. And the Redskins, according to Jeff McLean in Philadelphia, who's a Philadelphia writer, the Redskins are going to open up the season at Philadelphia, week one, Sunday, September 8th, at 1 o'clock.

That's the Redskins opener, at least according to Jeff McLean, who writes for the Philadelphia Inquirer. There have been a couple other people to verify this sense. So there's one wrong for sure. Actually, it's going to be two wrong because I'll get the at Philadelphia game wrong as well. Well, it'll be three wrong because I'll also get the Ad Giants game wrong. So I had the Redskins opening up on the road again. I got that part right because they had, until last year, they had had so many home openers. And so they are going to open up on the road at Philadelphia weekend.

one with a one o'clock game. The Eagles, Patriots are going to not play the Browns, and they're not going to play the Chiefs in the Sunday night opener. The reports are they're going to play the Steelers in the Sunday night opener. So what else do we have? What else has been leaked here? We have the full Jets schedule, and since the Redskins are playing the Jets, we know the Redskins will play at home against the Jets, week 11. Week 11 against the Jets at home. So that would be a mid to late November game. I like that. That gives us the Sam Darno, Josh Rosen matchup.

Well, we'll start there actually with you because I just said at the beginning of the podcast. I now, my lean now is that there's not going to be a trade for Josh Rosen. You feel differently? I don't know if I feel differently. I mean, one, the Cardinals have to draft Kyler Murray. I think that's happening, but from the things I've heard and also just logic, I don't think it's a lock. But let's just assume that even happens. you know, then obviously I think the misnomer that people have had about the Josh Rosen thing is they look at the teams who hypothetically need a quarterback today and think, oh, the Redskins are one of the literally handful of teams, therefore they're going to do it.

At the price of Josh Rosen is at, every single team in the league should want him. The cost, even if it's a first round pick, especially teams picking the back half of the first round, is not that expensive. And so the idea that the Redskins are the sole team involved is not the thing. That said, I still think they are engaged in those conversations. from what I gather. I know some people last week were reporting that it seems like they're fading away. I suspect from what I can tell, and just against a certain amount of logic, that that's posturing, that everybody's sort of playing the game. We're going to wait until the last second and figure it out. But to me, I think they're still in play. And logically, they should be

if they're actually thinking of drafting a quarterback because Rosen is better than the guys who would likely be there at 15. I mean, that's the thing, is that it's, and I mentioned earlier, it's a simple exercise from the Redskins standpoint. You put them on your 2019 draft board. where does he rank? You know, is he the 20th best player on your draft board? Is he the 18th best player? And by the way, for the position, you would reach a little bit. You know, if he's the 25th best player and you got to give up 15 to get him, you know, for the position, that's not crazy. But that's what you have to do. And I don't know personally if the Redskins would have a first round grade on him, which means that they're only willing to give up sort of a package of a second, a third, and a

future, you know, late round pick. And I don't think Arizona does that deal. So there's a lot in play here and a lot that we don't know. We're not even completely sure at this point if the Cardinals are going to take Kyler Murray. I think they will. Most people think they will. I'm listening to Kuiper earlier this morning. He still thinks they will. But there may be a lot of red flags there with Kyler Murray. You know, a lot of them that came up with just that first interview he did with Dan Patrick, with his father, you know, standing just off set. And it was, It was a strange interview. It was, you know, and that was when the baseball thing was still in play.

But you got to be sure in this day and age, if you're going to trade Josh Rosen and take Kyla Murray, that you believe Kyler Murray wants to play football forever and be great at it. Absolutely. And by the way, you mentioned the Dan Patrick interview. I was there at the Combine when he spoke at his podium. And it's an awkward situation. Kyle Murray, you're saying. Kyle Murray.

And, yeah, it's an awkward spot. You have these 40, 50 people, or in his case, probably closer to 100. random strangers. It's just shouting questions. It's not a formal press conference. He looked very uncomfortable in that spot. He looked very, maybe it looked like he wanted to be there, which, again, I get it, but you have to know what you're walking into if you're this guy. So it was a weird dynamic on top of the one you said. Yeah, Kyler Murray's got questions, but in terms of the Josh Rosen thing, when I say he's the better guy, I'm not saying that based on my own observations, I wouldn't be stupid enough to make that claim. But when I talk to people, former GMs, people around the

league, they all seem to make the claim that other than Kyla Murray, Josh Rosen would be the second best guy in this draft. Yes, I've heard that many times too. And so, and so of course, there are second best quarterback in the draft. Second best quarterback. And of course, there's other factors, right? He got he got shellacked last year playing behind a terrible offensive line. And I guess with a coach that was apparently so bad, the Cardinals fired him after year one. Does that turn him into David Carr, a guy who was the number one pick? And because he got sacked so repeatedly earlier in his career seemed to just fade out, I don't know. If you believe, though he's good. And I think some people when they look at what he did last year,

like, eh, he was fine. The situation was as bad. Still believe. But you're right. Ultimately, it comes down to what do the redskins think. It just seems that if my take has been throughout this whole process, they're not taking a quarterback at 15. They haven't made the playoffs in three years. If Jay Gruden has any saying it, he's already said flat out that this guy needs to play now. They just went and got Case Keenum. I know that's in part because of Alex Smith and Colt McCoy. It's also because they need somebody to play now. This rookie quarterback most likely won't be that guy. I know Baker Mayfield came in last year and did some good stuff,

but I mean, just generally, that's not how this works. So you put all those factors together. I don't see them going quarterback in round one. But if they're considering it, then I just don't get, why would you just not try to go get Josh Rosen? And maybe they will at the last second, but that to me would be the play. I think there's a lot of other things involved with Rosen. And Tommy and I have talked about it here in the podcast a few times.

And, you know, sometimes Tommy's out there with some of the things that he believes are in play. But I actually think that with people like Josh Rosen, when you have a guy who's active, you know, and is a major thinker and you've had, look, all of the things coming out of Arizona is what a great teammate leader worker he is, but that also could be out there to try to generate enough in compensation to really, you know, raise his value for trade. But, you know, I think it's something that you shouldn't underplay. And some of you on Twitter have reached out and said, this is ridiculous thinking. And why would you think that way, Kevin? Because you are absolutely pro-name. I am pro-name. I've never understood how this isn't a debatable issue.

The name changers, you know, over the years have had very little evidence. And the people that think that this isn't, you know, a pejorative term, that it's not insensitive, have had most of the data out there. So yes, I am a believer in the name. And I don't want the name changed. I mean, I could always change my mind on that, but I've been pretty steadfast. on that, but that doesn't mean that other people don't think that. And I really believe that at some point along the way already, a draft choice, a free agent, potential trade, somebody has said, no, I don't want to play for the Redskins. Their name is a racist name. I bet it's come up. I bet you any amount of money that at least once with a potential draft choice in a conversation or a

free agent, that it's come up. It's unfortunate that. It's unfortunate that, that they've got to face that, and hopefully they do a good job, a better job than they typically do, of communicating why it isn't what some people believe it is. But, you know, I think this Rosen thing, there's a lot of different things that are totally in play with a potential trade, including that the Redskins haven't evaluated him as a first round talent. I think that that's in play also. So to your point about the point about basically Josh Rosen being somebody who has a reputation for speaking his mind and not being active. Right.

So, you know, and being very interested in being active politically. So one comment that somebody gave me a former offensive coordinator, not in terms of the political officer, but just his personality said, well, I basically presented some people with if at 15, Haskins or Locke or Daniel Jones are there, would you go with them or trade for Rosen? And the response was basically, don't know the personality of Redskins quarterback coach. If not offended by a guy who was going to ask why all the time, then I would trade for Rosen. If that personality

rubs him wrong, then I'd go elsewhere. And so it's to your point. Now that's about the football perspective, but it's to the point of this guy's got a, he's an interested person and he's got thoughts and questions and has not been afraid to share them. And that's some of the knocks you heard about his personality. There's also the idea of

is he a leader of men? Does he have that type of alpha about him? So all these types of things go into play. You're right. It isn't just as simple as even the way I wrote about it on NBC Sports Washington. If you have the trade for the guy. There's other factors for sure. Yeah, it's all those other factors. And don't discount, you know, the possibility of really smart guys also saying, and by the way, Rosen doesn't

have a choice, right? You know, if the Cardinals want to trade him, they can trade him. And then, you know, but unfortunately that, you know, if it were the Redskins or another team that he didn't want to play for, they would have to potentially deal with the consequences. But, you know, don't discount the fact, too, that somebody, you know, anybody that's really smart looks at the Redskins organization and says, I don't want to be with that group. You know, this is a loser group for the most part. And I want to go somewhere where I got a chance to be with quality people. And maybe Arizona is not that place either. So, you know, I'm not suggesting the Redskins are the only organization that fits that description. Here, my prediction earlier in the show,

like my updated prediction, which by the way is constant, it's a dynamic situation. It's constantly changing. But I say no unrozen that the trade doesn't happen. That's my lean. And that they stay at 15 and take a defensive player in the first round of the draft. And part of the reason I think this, and I didn't say this earlier in the show, but you reminded me of it, is I just think ultimately for Bruce and for Jay and for everybody, they've got to figure out how to win nine games

and get to the postseason this year. And adding a rookie quarterback or even a second-year quarterback in a draft that is loaded with talent and giving up picks that could potentially help right away in round one, two, et cetera, that ultimately they're going to get to the point where Locke, Haskins, Jones, Rosen, uh-uh, we like Burns, he's a difference maker, or we like sweat who fell to 15. He's a difference maker right away.

We got to go win nine games and get to the postseason. That's been, like I said, that's why I have not bothered with a quarterback. Effectively, I'm embarrassed to say this, but we're up to mock 20. All right, well, I want to get to your mock. But give me your eight days away from night one. prediction on Rosen and 15. I'm going to assume that just for a variety of variables, Rosen won't happen, whether the Redskins are just or not.

I just think a lot of teams are going to be interested in him if he becomes available. And my pick for 15, I've been largely going defense, and Brian Burns is the guy. So you've got Burns in your latest mock. He's on my latest mock. They need the replacement for Preston Smith. And once you get past him and Montes Sweat, whichever guy is still there, or Rishon Gary, it seems to drop off with edge rushers. Not that there's not any, but now there's only a literal handful.

Everybody's looking for those guys. So if you don't get them when you can, then I think you're potentially in trouble. By the way, another schedule leak, the Giants and Cowboys in the 425 late Fox afternoon opener. That'll be in Dallas. I'm also getting Redskins at Patriots Week 5. Redskins at Patriots Week 5. Five. It's Patriots at Redskins. Yeah, Patriots at Redskins host New England. So week five.

I'm looking at it from the Patriots perspective. Okay, so right now we have three Redskins games based on the leaks. We've got at Philadelphia in the opener Sunday, September 8th. We've got week five hosting New England. And I think I'm looking at one o'clock Sunday game in week five. And then week 11 against the Jets at home. Those are the three we have so far. Can I just, can I just, say that if I was going to pick a day to come in studio with Tennessee. The day that the NFL schedule drops, I mean, this is too much. The look on your face is just too good. Well, I mean, I, I, this stuff is interesting to me, but the truth of the matter is, while people

have said, boy, you put a lot of work into that mock schedule, it's not as much work as you think. It can be done in about 20 minutes with a little bit of thought. Anyway, all right, let's go to your mock draft. And just your

overall thoughts about the NFL draft and Ben's writing a lot about it on NBC Sports Washington so follow him on Twitter and follow his work on NBC Sports Washington for draft coverage. Right now, let's just start at the top of the draft. Do you think Arizona

stays there and takes the quarterback or do you think they go with a defensive player at number one? So I guess I've been picking Kyler Murray because it's hard to figure out what else happens. Honestly, here's the dirty little secret with everybody who does a mock draft. You want your mock draft to have some cohesion. And if Kyla Murray doesn't go one, none of us know what happens anymore. So it's easier just to stay with Kyla Maria 1, then throw everything into chaos. But one reason

why I have questioned this is because, look, it's not just you have to think Kyla Murray is better than Josh Rosen. He has to be substantially better because you're not only trading Josh Rosen in that case, most likely. You're also giving up Nick Bosa or Queen and Williams. That's the thing. You have potentially, you know, in terms of where they are rated and You've got two dominant defensive players at the top of this draft, whether it's Bosa or Quinn and Williams. Most people think, like, can't miss prospects as a defensive, you know, havoc wreaker for the next 10 years. So you better be sure about Murray. Right, because even if you, let's just say that the trade goes down with the Redskins, Rosen for 15, just for argument's sake.

Now they got, yeah, now they got to get a quarterback. But that guy at 15 is not, I mean, so they've got Colomer, but that guy at 15 is not going to be as good as Bosa. So how much better is Kyler Murray than Rosen? It better be substantial. And obviously there is the Cliff Kingsbury connection, and that's why we all kind of assume that Murray happened. So for now, I'll go Murray. But, you know, look, if Arizona, I mean, if Arizona trades down or trades out of that

pick or takes Bosa, that wouldn't surprise me in the least. But I would imagine they would probably trade out of that pick and somebody else would want to move in to take Kyler Murray. By the way, on the Redskins front, if they do make a deal with Rosen, one way to sort get the best of both worlds, trade down from 15. And, you know, whatever it is. Some prospect will be that another team is interested in. Trade down from 15, then use that first round pick to trade to get Rosen.

And now you've added some other pieces. Who's the next quarterback after Murray? Because it seems like people, at least based on, you know, the latest vibe is that Haskins is falling. So in this exercise that I just did, and like I said, I'm not saying I talk to 32 GMs or anything. But just in just talking to people around the league who were paying attention to this. stuff. When I asked this question about the Rosen to the Redskins, they would then discuss other the quarterbacks. And in general, more of them said, if I didn't, if I wasn't going to go Rosen, that Drew Locke is the guy that they like. Now, a lot of them admit he's a boom or bust,

kind of a prospect, but a lot of them like the upside with him. And even Daniel Jones seemed to have more support. He's sort of a basic, solid, you know what you're getting quarterback. He doesn't have the crazy upside. Haskins, the potential is there. And some people would stand on the table for him, but not as much. In my mock, I have Drew Locke going 10 to Denver. Now, I know Joe Flacco just came out and basically said, yeah, don't do that. Don't take a quarterback at 10, focus on everything else. You got me. But at the moment, again, understanding I don't want my mock to have to be a chaos, and there's only so many teams need a quarterback. I've been going lock at 10 and Haskins to the Bengals at 11, even before the recent reports came out about Andy Dalton. Are they going

to give him a contract or not? New coach, he's going to want his own guy. So I've got those guys going 10 and 11 before we can get to the Redskins. All right, let's get to the Redskins. You've got them taking Brian Burns, the edge pass rusher from Florida State, speed rusher, which is my preference. Like if they're going to go pass rusher in this draft, I don't personally want the power pass rusher anymore, the Kerrigans or the Preston Smiths. I want the true speed edge guy that really you have to game plan for.

It's interesting. Like I understand that, you know, Joey Bosa, as an example, is a very important. probably more of a power rusher, although he's pretty damn explosive. I mean, you've had great power rushers over the years, but the Redskins haven't had a true speed rusher in forever. And that could be the difference for their defense. You know, with the interior that they have, you leave Kerrigan on the other side. A speed rusher on the other side from Kerrigan really could help Kerrigan in general. Is Burns, do you have him in your mock, by the way, going after sweat after Josh Allen definitely right you've got sweat before burns yeah sweat

the heart question it doesn't seem like it's that serious but right we don't know where teams are going to go I think the giants are taking one of these guys so I've had sweat going six to them with Gary going 13 to Miami because Miami's just tanking they're not taking a quarterback I don't think so yes and so burns is effectively the last guy I guess depends if you view a cleland feral as as an edge rusher or not I have him going a little bit later So yes, on that. And to your point about the speed, okay, so the question with the Redskins is,

what do they think of Ryan Anderson? He's there. But he's not a speed guy. Right, right. So if you want to compliment him, don't pick another power guy because the knock on Burns is he's not that, he's not big, he doesn't have enough power of what he has. And even if he gains weight, is that going to be,

there's a question of he'll generate the power needed. But you already have that guy with Anderson. So if you're going to take this position, I'm with you, I would go for something, just a different look. And I think Burns, he's got a lot of good moves. He definitely is highly athletic. He would be a strong play, I think, at 50. Who else has you been doing your mock drafts?

Who else, if they stay at 15 and they don't have the quarterback and they've got that pick? Who have you been, who's been in the mix? You've got Burns in your latest, but who else has been in the mix? I wanted T.J. Hawkinson, the tight end from Iowa, but it looks to me like he's going top 10, top 12. Packers, right? I actually am going eight right now to Detroit, but I don't think he gets past Green Bay in a certain logical sense. So take him off the board. I think tight end they need, and Jay Gruden has effectively said as much as well.

What's interesting at 15, there's a lot of guys who are there, but it's a little bit too early it feels like for the receivers. I don't know if there may be possible no receiver gets picked in the first round, but if any of them, that comes later. I think offensive line is interesting. One thing I'm hearing more about certain guys like Cody Ford from Oklahoma, he's getting meetings with teams picking. at 14 and 16, or at least those teams have showed interest in him. He's considered to be the best guard, maybe like the third best tackle. We played tackled Oklahoma. Yeah, he was a tackle at Oklahoma. Is he being projected as a guard? Depending on the team. Some teams have him inside, and he's projected to be the top guy. Now, I don't know if I would take guard at 15.

I'm not saying I wouldn't because of these. They took guard at five. You know, they've already done that. Right. I wouldn't say I would do some- Even though sheriff was a tackle at Iowa. Right, right. And I'm not saying I wouldn't do it from that perspective. I'm just saying, looking at the board, I think there's a chance he could get help in round. on day two at that spot, but I think that's another one. I think Devin Bush from Michigan, the inside linebacker's interesting. I had him projected in that spot before the Ruben Foster situation unfolded. Now, I have Bush going ahead of the Redskins anyway, but if he's there, I wouldn't pass on him just because of Foster.

I mean, who knows what's going to happen with him. I totally agree with you on that. I said that yesterday that just because he's been cleared and he's ready to go, you can't, if inside linebacker is the highest rated player on your board at 15, if it's a Devin Bush, or what if Devin White fell, but he's not going to fall. But if Bush were there, you have to consider that. Look, the truth of the matter is you really need another inside linebacker unless you're absolutely convinced on Sean Dionne Hamilton, right? Because Mason Foster, what is his real future? I mean, most of us thought he was going to get released in this offseason. So they could use

another one anyway at that position. If I'm saying, best player available, if it's inside linebacker, you don't sit there and say, well, we got Ruben Foster. You say, we need another one. And oh, by the way, let's be realistic. Ruben Foster's long-term future is 50-50. Right. And also, like, here's the thing. With that defensive line you have, if you add two inside linebackers, like there's no investment in Ruben Foster, right? So he's a really potentially a very good player at no investment. Adding a guy like Devin Bush, think of how that transforms his defense that was faded last year against the run.

It did fade. Devin Bush would bring you that. Their defense could be significantly better if those two guys are actually in the middle of their defense. So I do think that's a consideration. I think that safety, they definitely need a free safety next to Landon and Collins. I'm going to put Monta Nicholson on the side because we don't know where he's at.

They can wait. The depth of safety in day two is pretty strong. It's very, safety, you can get second or third round player that could come in and start for this team next year. You could. They're not thinking safety at 15. They could be thinking, and I'm just wondering, and what all of our reaction would be, a week from tomorrow night, if, let's say the Redskins picked Greedy Williams, the corner from LSU at 15, would we immediately say after that selection, well, they might get rid of Josh Norman, or they might tell Josh Norman you either restructure

or we're going to cut you loose? Because I think we would have that conversation. They still need two corners. You know, if they got rid of Josh Norman, they would still need another one, because we're still not sure about Quentin Dunbar's health, right? Are we completely sure that he's going to be ready? I'll be 100 percent honest. I'm not sure. I guess I haven't been, I've been dismissing corner. I know I've seen some people throw that out there, but I guess in my head I was assuming Quentin Dunbar was fine for camp. But to your point, yes, if they draft a corner at 15, the immediate tweet that everybody will send is, uh-oh, Josh Norman. But my only thing would be at that point to what end?

Other than Landon Collins, they haven't been spending money anyway. So while they don't have a huge amount of cap space, they have some. They didn't do anything crazy. So what are they getting rid of Josh Norman for at this point? Yeah, it's not like there's another player out there that they're going to go spend big money on. That's a good point. I still think that they may at that point turn to Josh and say, we need to restructure. We need to get your number down here a little bit.

But they may just say, you know what, one more year with Josh. Let's roll with it and we'll play the rookie corner opposite him. if he's ready to go. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think corners out of the question at 15. There are some corners that most people would say, you know, you could justify going at 15, whether it's Murphy or Baker or Greedy Williams. But I just think, I was throwing it out there. If we get there a week from tomorrow night and they take a corner, don't be shocked. And then immediately we're all going to start talking about Josh Norman. Sure. What do you have, How far have you mocked out your latest mock for the Redskins?

How many rounds? Well, there's two. There's the NFL one I did. It's two rounds, but I gave the Redskins their two third round picks. I'm also now doing something which I just started today on NBC Sports Washington. I mocked all seven rounds, but I did it three different ways because everybody wants to say, we'll take this guy, take that guy. Okay, great.

If you take quarterback in round one, then understand here's what the rest of your situation looks like. or if you go pass rush your safety in the first two rounds, okay, but then you're not getting a guard. So the first one went up today, and then the next two versions are going up the next couple of days. So, yes, I even did an undrafted for agent because I'm that nerdy. All right. So what positions will they fill in the draft?

Are they going to fill their need for a pass rusher, a guard, another safety, potentially another corner, and a wide receiver? They're going to fill all of their. needs in the draft. Because they really do need another safety. We're not sure about what Nicholson's status is and what they think of Nicholson, even though I thought he was a tremendous talent. And by the way, Jake Rudin, remember a year ago, or in training camp last year, talked

about how he thought Nicholson was like Jordan Reed in that that kind of talent, but, you know, struggling with the injuries. Right. And then they trade for ha-ha, and then you're like, wait, what's going on? Exactly. So here's the thing. a year ago when I was doing all this, I felt pretty confident that a defensive tackle, and specifically Duran Payne, was in play, if not the likely call.

I did, I just went back and looked. I wrote, if Derwin James falls, I would take Derwin James. But, okay. I think, I mean, in hindsight, that would have been a hell of a pick. And Payne's a good player. Right. James may be a massive impact player at the position, though. Right.

And he certainly was as a rookie. The point was that we all kind of knew, and they telegraphed as they needed to help improve the run defense. Okay, great. There's also a Bama. there is that. This year, boy, as somebody who's trying to nail this mock draft, I am unbelievably frustrated with the Redskins situation because literally you could tell me whatever order, you can, you know, you could make the mock draft need list for them, and I could buy in any of it.

They need the long-term quarterback. They need receiver. I think they need a long-term tight end. Jay Gruden effectively has said that. They need a left guard. They need an edge rusher. They arguably need inside linebacker, safety, and you brought up corner. If they took almost any of those things at 15. Ignoring the certain prospects are just better and the depth of the draft, I could easily say, sure. And that's why this is such a challenging call on the Redskins. It's also a good thing. There's a lot of options for them. And as long as they, you know, take the right quote-unquote player, meaning a guy who has fair value for the pick, they probably can't screw it up. But they could go in any direction. They have got to, in my opinion.

They've got to get an edge rusher. I just don't seem to Ryan Anderson's that guy. they've got to get a guard. If they go in with this thinking of it, Eric Flowers and the rest of the things that they have on the roster or the answers, good luck. To me, those are the two big things. But then after that, you have to get receiver.

I think though with a receiver, I would still think they need more of a veteran than they do a kid. Now, there are receivers who on day, there will be a lot of receivers on day two who are interesting. And I projected in the seven-round mock I did today, I projected Kelvin Harmon, the receiver at an NC State.

Some people think he could go early second. I've seen other people. people not be impressed. So I had him going with that first third pick. I'm giving you a roundabout way of saying, I don't really know what they're going to do. They do need a lot of stuff. It just depends on how they frame it. But they've got, here's one thing I would ask you, look at the offense. Think of the offense at the depth chart. Name one position that today, right now, at any of those players that you feel very confident for the entire season next year. Well, and even beyond next season, because we still haven't gotten the extension for Brandon Sheriff yet,

which is very interesting, by the way, that that hasn't happened yet. I mean, it's still good, and it more likely than not will happen. But if it doesn't happen, it means that Brandon Sheriff didn't want to stay here, which means they would more likely than not need to use their franchise tag on him next year. I'm getting off subject here. There isn't one position on offense. Not one. Not one where they don't have a need, because even Darius Geyer,

I'm not sure about, I wasn't even sure about when they picked him in the second round last year, he was not my favorite running back. But what I do think that they are going to come away with in the first three rounds, somehow, some way, is they're going to come away with a player that they think can come in and start at wide receiver and a player that they can come in and contribute significantly and if not start at safety. I think those two positions are positions that are deep and they're going to be able to get a starter talent in the second or third round. And I would, I'd be shocked in the first three rounds if the Redskins don't draft a wide receiver and a safety. After that, I know what I want them to get. I want them to get an edge

pass rusher. But I don't always feel like they feel like they've got that need for it. I don't know why they, they really believe and believe that Kerrigan is a difference maker. Remember, Jake Rudin said something, maybe you were there for this when he said, Ryan Anderson, it's like, I'm paraphrasing, it's put up or shut up time. Remember he said that at the league meetings? Were you there for that? Or maybe it was the Indy Combine, which I thought was an interesting comment about Ryan Anderson. And maybe one in which would lead you to believe that they're not entirely sure about him, which now creates a definite need. You know, at least, I think there's a need regardless of whether or not Ryan Anderson is a guy that they like. They

need a true pass rusher. I think we also should just look through the Alabama players here that are projected to go in the first three rounds. You know, they're not. going to have a chance at Quinn and Williams. They're not going to have, I mean. Well, Deonti Thompson, the safety of Alabama, he in one of my three mocked draft, you had him? I have him going to the Redskins on day two because he was a, he was a first round, projected first round pick or a good chunk of the year, but kind of faded off late.

Now it looks like he's like late second, early third. If we're going to stick with the Alabama thing, he is a center fielder type. He would make sense for sure. And just to go back to your point, in the, the. one that I just put up today on NBC Sports Washington, today meaning, what was it today, Wednesday? Right. I have them, I mentioned Brian Burns. In the next two picks, I have safety and receiver, and then I have a quarterback after that.

I think that's what I'm most, I mean, this thing is always, like, this is why it's just, you just don't know. Nobody knows. And reading all these reports, it's fun and it's interesting, but think about how it just changes within a few. days. I mean, I've mentioned this example a million times, and we had Dane Bruegler on the show the other day, and he said, remember, a year ago, it was Sam Darnold, Sam Darnold, Sam Darnold, and Baker Mayfield was still somewhere in the middle to late first round, you know, two weeks, three weeks before the draft. And so a lot of that's going to happen here over the final eight days. But I do think the Alabama thing.

Without to mention Jonathan Allen. Yeah, exactly, how he fell. But I think safety and wide receiver, I'm most confident that they feel they have a need for. Jay needs a wide receiver. He can say Paul Richardson, Paul Richardson all he wants. And he was the guy that wanted Paul Richardson last year. And they listened to him. And they went out and got Paul Richardson. But like they've done before, they seem to not really factor in the injury history. You know, and the fact that there's pretty good probability that this player is not going to be available for 16 games.

Jay needs a wide receiver in this draft. There's going to be a wide receiver in the second or third round that could potentially start for this team next year as a rookie. and they need another safety. They need another safety. I assume they need a coverage safety. Yeah, I assume you have. Have you stood next to Paul Richardson? Yeah.

I mean, like, when these guys take off their pads, obviously, they're different guys, he is a skinny guy. Skinny. And I look at him. Breakable. Right, I look at him and think of us, wow, it feels like how a parent must look at a kid, you know, playing in a dangerous, going to traffic or something. Like, oh, my God, like, be careful with him.

Look at how small. So, yeah, they need them. But here's my question, though. And I'm with you. I would look to get some receivers, and there are some good options, like I said, on day two. The question is, does a rookie receiver, not always, but historically, comes in and takes a minute to get going. And, again, we have a perfect example here in Josh Dodson. It's three years.

It's not going yet. And there's other, go through all the Redskins' recent receivers, Rod Gardner, or whatever the name. Right. Does that guy come in and how? help you today is my only question because if they're trying to not not in the same way that a running back would not in the same way that maybe a corner would um but yeah i get your point but god i'm telling you if if marquise brown or paris campbell are available in in the second round to me both of them look like deshaun jackson and they just don't have overall i feel like i say this every year before

the redskins enter a draft more team speak please. They need more team speed, both sides of the ball. They need it defensively, and they need it offensively. They need more team speed if they're really going to have, you know, explosive play-making ability. They just, they had it in 2015 and 16. You know, they really did. But they haven't had it here the last couple of years. By the way, I was just, I was going through the list of Bama players. where is it? I just had it before. But, you know, like they have a tight end need. You know, will they pass on, you know, a guy like Noah Fant and go with Irv Smith because he's a Bama player? They are definitely talking to their guys about these Bama players. Well, we didn't even mention at if they go off into one, Jonah Williams. Here's one thought I had on this one. I assume Trent Williams will retire a red skin at this point just based on the belief of how the organization views him. But next year, he's got like, I think he's on the books for like $14 million.

You're right. And he's only got like $1 million is guaranteed. So if you took a Jonah Williams or Cody Ford, that guy, if you plug him at guard now, could be your starting left tackle next year if Williams has another. You mean Christian isn't that guy? Well, I mean, I think they were hopeful that eventually he was going to be a starting tackle. Sure. And he still may be obviously looking Morgan Moses is, you know, God bless him.

He plays hard. He plays through pain. I don't think last year was his best season. and we'll see if he can stay healthy. But I'm saying in terms of Alabama, Jonah Williams, if he's there at 15, a lot of people would consider that to be a pretty good value, and it would fit both the Alabama thing

and a current need at Guard. You think that going in on paper, this is a very good draft, a deep draft, don't you? You know, I think that one, now that I have been studying this for weeks and weeks, that it's hard for me to get out of it anymore. I think just like anything else, at some positions, it's strong.

It doesn't seem like it's very exciting. at the top. It doesn't, I mean, football is different than the NBA. Like, we're all, you know, whenever we get to a wizard's conversation about the draft, we're all going to be like, ugh, if the wizards pick sixth, this isn't that draft. And the NFL, it's about the position. Maybe it's not a strong draft, but you need that and can you find that guy? So I think there's some places it's strong. I don't think it's like, you know, running back, not impressive at the top, wide receiver, not impressive at the top. Those are sexy positions. And so when we look at it, like, from that perspective, it's going to, it's not going to feel that impressive.

I really don't get the sense to people love the quarterbacks beyond collar. The other guys, just in general, yeah, they're interesting. I don't think people would love the way they were a year ago. So I think it's a good draft in some spots people raved by the defensive front guys, but other areas are a little bit weaker. All right. Thank you. We could go on and on and on and on.

And it's a podcast, so we could go on and on and on. But we've got to get this thing out. And by the way, there's new schedule news, not Redskins-related. The Ravens fans. and there are some Ravens fans that listen to this podcast. They're going to open up their season on the road in Miami. And the first Monday night football game of the year, according to multiple reports now, Houston, New Orleans,

New Orleans at Houston. Really? That's the 7 o'clock Monday night game. My guess would be that Antonio Brown and the Raiders are going to be in that second Monday night game. That would make sense to me. That 10.30, 1020 Monday night game opening the weekend of the year, the second Monday night game is the lowest rated night game of the NFL season, even though it's opening weekend, but they lose the entire East Coast for most of the game. But I'm going to guess that the Eagles will be there. I'm sorry, the Raiders will be there. If you missed it, and this is so stupid that we're doing this because it's a podcast. By the time most of you listen to this, you're going to have the whole schedule in front of you. But whatever. We always treat this podcast like it's a live radio show for some reason because it's what I'm used to.

But just repeating, the Redskins are going to open up at Philadelphia. Okay, that's real. That's not a mock schedule. They're going to open up at Philadelphia. They've got the Patriots at home in week five, and they've got the Jets at home in week 11. Those are the only three games we know now. By the time you're listening to this, you'll probably have the whole schedule in front of you. But anyway, Ben, thanks.

What's the one thing? What's the one mock schedule thing you want to have happen? What's the one date you're dying to have? So last year, I really, I impressed upon Cooley when I did this thing. I said, the Redskins, don't ask me why, it's just a gut feel. They're going to play a Saturday game late in the season, and I think it's going to be against Tennessee. And I mocked it out that way. And that was the one I got right last year.

And he said to me, how did you know it was going to be? on Saturday. And I'm like, it's just the kind of late season Saturday game. Like it's an NFC, NFC thing. And, you know, it's not always in that first window, a great matchup. And I got that one right. So which one? I think I'm going to get a red, I think the Redskins Cowboys Week 17 at Dallas is going to be right now. It might be in Washington. I think the Redskins are going to close the season against the Cowboys. I think I'm going to get that right. And I think they're going to play the Cowboys on a Monday night game in their other game against Dallas. Those would be the two that I feel comfortable about. And that their game at Minnesota will be a

somewhat high profile game, not a primetime game, but like a 425 afternoon game on Fox. Something like that. Just no Monday night. It's bad for them. It's bad for me. They're going to have a Monday night game against the Cowboys, as my guess. I don't know if it's going to be, I mocked it as a home game on October 21st, but it could potentially be a road game. But anyway, who cares? People want to watch Josh Rosen. Right. Well, you know what? The talk has been here. I think John Orand wrote about this, that the NFL is considering holding off the release of the schedule until after the draft. It's always been before the draft, but, you know, if you end up with a high-profile player drafted, that should factor into the NFL schedule. But they've never done it that way. But apparently there's some

consideration of holding off the NFL schedule until after the draft starting next year. I don't know. I like it right in this spot. Then we get the draft and then we get a break for a little while until training camp. Thank you. Follow Ben on Twitter. Wait a minute. One more schedule thing here. Oh, boy. Oh, here we go. Not Redskins. But the last Thanksgiving Day game is Falcon Saints. Remember John Orand had predicted it was going to be Eagles Vikings, Falcon Saints on Thanksgiving in Atlanta. Wasn't that the Thanksgiving night game last year?

It was, that sounds right. It was definitely recently. The Saints were involved last year. What were the other games? Obviously, Lions, Cowboys. The Lions are playing the Bears and Oran had reported that Cowboys were going to play the Dolphins. That was like a month ago, but maybe he's got that wrong.

Yes, this is the second straight year, Falcon Saints in primetime on Thanksgiving. What? Why? Why would you go Miami? You know what? Maybe just because... They're literally going to tank. Yeah, I don't know why you'd have Miami playing the Cowboys on Thanksgiving either.

But if you have them playing, if you have the Cowboys playing somebody like the Rams on Thanksgiving, that's six NFC teams now on Thanksgiving Day. I actually think that's happened recently. Whatever. Nobody cares about this. You're going to have the schedule in front of you very shortly. You say nobody cares, and then we're spending the entire show tomorrow. Exactly.

Over the schedule. Anyway, thanks, Ben. Appreciate it. Follow Ben on Twitter. Also, follow Ben on NBC Sports, Washington, where he's continuing to do a lot of draft work, which is great. And, of course, he's always covering the Wizards.

And I just decided that we had nothing to talk about when it comes to the Wizards. Why would we? At Ben Standing on Twitter. It's a fair point. And you know what? You'll come back before the NBA draft, or certainly before that, hopefully.

but maybe before the NBA draft lottery and we can make predictions on the lottery. Thanks to Ben, thanks to Barry's Verluga, thanks to Brian McNally. We had three Bs today on the show. Thanks to Aaron. Don't forget if you're listening to the podcast on iTunes,

rate it, review it, subscribe. It doesn't cost you anything. It just helps us. And for those that want to listen, that haven't figured out how to listen, it's really easy if they don't want to mess with iTunes. or any of that stuff, just go to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com.

Enjoy the day. Tommy will be with me tomorrow and we'll do NFL Schedule Talks, some caps preview, and more.