The Kevin Sheehan Show - Redskins Position Groups Ranked

Episode Date: July 31, 2019

Kevin opened with a discussion about where the Redskins position groups rank among the 32 NFL teams. Ben Standig/The Athletic joined Kevin from Skins' training camp in Richmond with the latest on the offensive line, the QB competition, and a lot more. Tim Shovers/NBC Sports Washington joined the show to talk Nats-Braves and trade deadline. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right. I am here. Aaron is here. This show is brought to you by Window Nation. Call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Ben Standing, who now writes for The Athletic, is going to join us on the show today, live from Richmond at Redskins Training Camp. And we'll get caught up on everything that's going on down at Training Camp. Jay Gruden has spoken again this morning with the press conference, so we'll see what he said when we talked to Ben in just a bit. Also, plenty of Nats discussion, trade deadline discussion coming up as well. Tim Schovers, who used to be a producer and an anchor at 980, and as a friend of mine, is doing a podcast on the Nats, a post-game podcast on the Nats for NBC Sports, Washington. He's also a huge Atlanta Braves fan. So I've been targeting this. particular series and this week to have Tim on.

He will join us a little bit later on and we'll do the Nats with him. There was breaking NFL news this morning as we got started. One of the big name NFL holdouts is in. Michael Thomas signs a massive contract extension in New Orleans. Five years, $100 million, $61 million guaranteed. It makes him the highest paid NFL wide receiver. trust me, Julio Jones will be next, and you certainly have guys like Tyree Kill who may have leverage. I don't know how much leverage he has, but guys that are looking for big deals at that position that are going to use this deal as a springboard for their own.

This is really, though, you know, a preseason or a start to the preseason where holdouts have been a big story. We haven't had that a lot in recent years. Zeke Elliott is still holding out in Dallas. Nothing has changed there. Trent Williams here. Nothing has changed there. Melvin Gordon with the Chargers. And Gokway in Jacksonville, I don't think I'm missing any.

Those are still big-name NFL holdouts holding firm. But Michael Thomas, a big-time wide receiver for the Saints is in. He really leveraged what he did here in this rookie contract before the final year of a rookie deal, which I think was set to pay him somewhere in the neighborhood of like a million bucks, and that was it. And he got a much bigger deal in New Orleans. What just fell? Was that the, that made a loud racket.

What did you do there, Aaron? I moved a chair, and apparently the cord was wrapped around the chair, and so the phone fell off. Sounds fine. And all is well? The phone's in good condition? Very good. All right. To those of you who tweeted yesterday that I saw.

spent much too much time talking about the Dallas Cowboys yesterday. I'm not going to apologize for that. Keep your friends close, your enemies closer, the saying goes. But seriously, though, I mean, as a football fan, I am very impressed with the roster they have put together. You know, the Dallas Cowboys under Jerry Jones have been in many ways as embarrassing as the Redskins. It's not been a good run under Jerry since Jimmy left many, many, many. years ago. But they've got a front office that works much better now. They've got a coaching staff

that I'm not overly impressed with. I still think Jason Garrett is a total boob as a head coach. And I think because of him, they do have a limit on their upside. But they've got talent, man. They've got a good chance to be a playoff team for a second consecutive season. Let's not forget, this team got on a roll in the second half of last season and went seven and one and won a off game last year. Now, they do need Zeke. This is what prompted the conversation about the Cowboys yesterday. It was Jerry Jones's comments about Zeke Elliott and the running back position overall. I think the way they are built, they need Zeke Elliott. I don't think there's any question that they will suffer significantly if Alfred Morris or the other guy whose name escapes me right

now is their lead back and they don't get Zeke in. They need Zeke. He's a top three running back in this league, certainly as a ball carrier, maybe not as versatile as David Johnson or Todd Gurley or, you know, some of the others, certainly not Alvin Kamara as a pass catcher, but as a runner, is there anybody better than Zeke Elliott on first down, second down, when you got to line up and run the ball three, four yards? If you want to make the argument for Saquan, you can, but You can say Zeke for sure. Yeah, Barclay's obviously in the conversation, too. I was remiss not mentioning him.

So anyway, Ben Standing from Richmond coming up, plenty of Nat's discussion coming up as well. But first I wanted to mention a story that Alex Smith was interviewed for. Therz Pailer, who is a Yahoo sports writer, had a sit down with Alex Smith yesterday. And there were a couple of quotes that I wanted to mention because we've heard from him just barely. We heard from him for the first time, you know, a couple of weeks ago.

But in talking about the injury during the Houston game back in November at FedEx Field when he broke his leg, he said, quote, I knew it was bad right away. As soon as I looked down and my leg wasn't straight, you're so used to your whole life when you look down, your leg is straight. And then it wasn't anymore. I was in much shock right away that I wasn't in a ton of pain because I was in shock. I kind of just really, to be honest, said, oh, well, I'll get put back together. They'll do what they do.

I'll do my rehab. And I knew the season was done. I definitely knew that, but I had no idea, zero appreciation for what a broken tibfib is and what the recovery is like. He said, I was in the best shape I've ever been in, feeling great, feeling strong. I still think about that play a lot. I don't know what happened, how it happened, or why, but it was just one of those things I think where everything was right for that to happen were wrong. In looking towards the future, he said, quote, I'm still determined to play, still

marching down the road, still optimistic. I want to push it for the challenges sake. I want to see what I've got. I enjoy the challenge, even to this. recovery coming out here and being with the guys, it's not going to last forever. I'd like to see where it leads, closed quote. I think when he says, I want to push it for the challenges sake. I want to see what I've got. I think there is some sense of resignation on ever playing again there. Maybe that's just my read, but when he says, I want to push it for the challenges

his sake, to see what I've got, you know, as a person to get that leg back into the best possible shape he can get into. And he says, I enjoy the challenge. And coming out here and being with the guys, I think he does realize that there's a chance he's never going to play football again. One of the other quotes from the story said, it's hard enough to play the quarterback position when you're 100%. And I don't think you could fake being 100% if I wasn't. So the goal is to get Back to that, yeah. All right, a bit of a reality check, I think, for some of you. And not that you would take this particular opinion as gospel,

but it's an NFL opinion from Mike Clay, who's an ESPN writer and some of the other experts at ESPN. They ranked every NFL position group from 1 to 32. And one of the arguments I've gotten into with some of you and a lot of my friends who are diehard Redskin fans has been about the Redskins offensive line. And I've said over the last few years when people have said to me,

wow, I mean, when it's healthy, it's a top five offensive line. And I've said, no, it's not a top five offensive line. It might be right around a top 10 offensive line, but it's not a top five offensive line. In fact, the Philadelphia and Dallas offensive lines are much better than the Redskins' offensive lines. They're in the division.

And then we've had this debate about how great the defense potentially could be in their front seven. And a lot of you have gotten carried away a little bit here over the last year and said, man, the Redskins have a chance to be an elite defense because of that front seven. And I said, look, they're getting better. And I love the young talent. And I, Duran Payne and John Allen and Ionitis and hopefully a guy like Tim Settle. And then throw Montez sweat into the mix as potentially a, you know, a legit edge pass rusher,

at the NFL level. I like the young talent, and I think it has a chance, but you're getting carried away when you say it's got a chance to be an elite defense, like a top five defense. So anyway, this is just one particular ranking and one group of people who, you know, are ranking the position groups of the NFL 1 to 32. But it gives you a chance to see what people, you know, that cover the league think. and are paying attention to other teams.

This is something that happens every year, and we always talk about this during the regular season. It's like a lot of you and a lot of the fan base watch one game a week and really pay attention to our team and not as much to the rest of the league. And that skews your perspective. It puts your perspective in a spot that's way too singular and way too, you know, heavy on.

what you're seeing the Redskins do. The Redskins are terrible franchises, we know. And their roster, I think, has been a bit overrated by the fan base. Again, I like what they're doing defensively. I think their offensive line, when it's been fully healthy, has been a strength of the team when it's been fully healthy, which has not been the case for the last two years, that it has a chance to be the strength of the football team or one of the strengths of the football team, but it's not an elite group. So this just gives it a little bit of a reality check. Again, one opinion or a group of people's opinions, but people who cover the league.

So ESPN put together this NFL position group ranking. And the Redskins' offensive line, fully healthy, all right, their offensive line fully healthy, was ranked 15th in the league. The first, the number one offensive line in the league, the Philadelphia Eagles, with Jason Peters and Kelsey and Lane Johnson, the number two offensive line in the league to Dallas Cowboys, with Terran Smith and Zach Martin and Travis Frederick and the kid from Texas, Connor Williams.

All right, one two, Eagles, Cowboys, ranked one, two offensive lines. By the way, the Giants' offensive line with all the changes they've made, this is a 2019 ranking 14th best offensive line. The Redskins are 15th. So, you know, taking a more objective viewpoint, guys that cover the league, not just one team, the Redskins offensive line is the worst in the division and the 15th best in the NFL. So it is a top half of the league offensive line, and that's where I would put it when it's fully healthy. I would not have ever put it in the top five.

Cooley thought it was a top five offensive line a couple of years ago fully healthy, and I debated him on it. And I said the Eagles and the Cowboys, and at the time, there were a couple of other teams, including, I believe, the Texans who had a better offensive line. So the offensive line came in at 15th. The other offensive categories, by the way, a quarterback, the Redskins quarterback situation was ranked 30th. The Redskins' running back situation was ranked 26th in the league. By the way, the Giants running back situation ranked number one with Saquan Barkley.

and then a guy that I like a lot is Wayne Galman, the guy from Clemson from a few years ago. I think he's got a chance to be a dynamic back for them, and I think he's played well at times. The wide receiver core, as you could imagine, ranked 31st out of 32 teams. Only the Ravens have a worse wide receiver core, according to these rankings. And then I mentioned the offensive line, and then the tight ends, the Redskins had the 18th best tight end group in the NFL. Eagles with the number one tight end group with Zach Ertz and Dallas Goddard. So those were the offensive rankings. Then we move to the defensive rankings, position rankings, 1 through 32.

Interior defensive line. I want to go back, though, to the start of this particular ranking of all of these position groups, because the opening paragraph of this story written by Mike Clay actually, singles out the Redskins' interior defensive line. He writes, it's all relative, which is something that's often overlooked when NFL rosters are analyzed. He writes, sure, Washington's Duran Payne and Jonathan Allen form a potentially lethal defensive tackle duo. But look around the league. The defensive tackle position is absolutely loaded with proven stars. It's easy to say Washington

has a good or even a great duo, but the fact is it's only as good as it is relative to the league's other 31 units, which is, again, sort of my point that a lot of times we get caught up in just our team and not the rest of the league. So where does the Redskins' Interior Defensive Line rank among interior defensive lines around the league? 14th, according to this. Carolina's is number one. Remember, they acquired Gerald McCoy in the off season. They also acquired Don Terry Poe, and they've got K-1 short. The Lions with Damon Harrison now, with Aishon Robinson,

who is now entering, believe it or not, his fourth season, and the addition last week of Mike Daniels is second. And then the Rams, obviously, with Aaron Donald and company are third. The Redskins are 14th on that list, 14th. 14th. By the way, even though I love the Dallas defense, their interior defensive linemen ranked 32nd among 32 teams. I still like the Dallas defense, and I love their pass rushers, and I love their playmakers at linebacker with Jalen Smith and Leighton Van der Leyen. But their Interior D-Line ranked 32nd in the NFL. The next defensive category, edge rushers,

the Redskins were ranked 14th in the league. That is, probably a projection of what Montez Sweat can bring to the team. Their inside linebackers ranked 29th in the league out of 32 teams. Their corners, not going to make Josh Norman happy, ranked 27th in the NFL out of 32 teams. And then their safeties ranked 21st in the NFL out of 32 teams with obviously landing Collins to the mix. And then they rank overall rosters, overall NFL rosters, taking all these position groups into consideration. The Redskins roster, according to this particular opinion, the 31st ranked roster in the NFL out of 32 teams. The Dolphins are the worst.

They write about the Redskins overall roster ranking. Washington has built a potentially dominant defensive line, but it's hard to find many other short-term positives. There are more questions than answers on the offensive side of the ball, including seemingly wide-open quarterback competition between Case Keenham and Dwayne Haskins, and the back end of the defense's major depth concerns behind Josh Norman and well-funded box safety, Landon Collins. The Dolphins roster was ranked the worst in the NFL, the Redskins, the 31st. if you're wondering about the other teams in the division, the Eagles, the Saints have the number one roster in the NFL. The Eagles are two, the Rams are three, the Bears are four, Patriots, five.

The Cowboys have the 13th best roster in the NFL, and the Giants have a better overall roster ranking than the Redskins at 29th overall. So there it is. I say reality check. It's an opinion. But sometimes I think the opinion of those that cover the league, You know, sometimes they miss out on some of the stuff that we know. Sometimes they get things,

they talk about positives that we know to be negatives and they talk about negatives that we know in following the day-to-day detail of this team. We know to be positive. But overall, I don't know if the Redskins roster is the 31st ranked roster in the NFL. I would put it somewhere, you know, in the 20 to 25 range. But I do think on the offensive line and the defensive line, you've got to compare it to everybody else. And the Redskins do not have an elite offensive line, even when healthy and with Trent Williams.

They don't. It can be a good offensive line. It can be a strength of the team relative to other position groups. But I would not put it in the elite category, and they put it at 15th overall. And I think the interior defensive line, a lot of talent, a lot of young talent. A lot of hope.

But there are a lot of good defensive lines in the NFL right now. Just a bit of perspective on that. All right, let's bring in Ben Standing, who is now 3-2-1. 3-2-1. All right, let's bring in Ben Standing now. He writes now for the athletic. So follow him on Twitter at Ben Standing and then subscribe to the athletic. So you can read all of his work.

He's covering the Redskins for the Athletic. of course, Ben has been a long-time friend and certainly the mock draft champion of the world. And we will certainly be talking to him about that as we approach all of the drafts next year on radio and on the podcast. But he's down in Richmond right now. And God, I mean, I cannot believe the big news. They cut Tyler Catalina. How could they do that? He's been such a mainstay with this team for so long.

No, I'm kidding. Catalina was cut. they did get Donald Penn signed, and I'll start right there. The fact that they have signed two tackles in the last four days, Corey Robinson and now Donald Penn, a veteran who actually can start a game in the NFL at 36 years old at left tackle. What do you think that says about the state of the Trent Williams situation with the team? Well, first, Kevin, thanks for having me, and congrats to you on your big news. That was exciting to hear the other day about you going back to the radio.

Yeah, I wrote about this on the athletic in the sense that, you know, these holdouts, we've seen them over time, and, you know, if it's just about the money, you know, okay, things will work out. You know, it's too much money to leave on the table for all of all, and eventually they'll work things out. But, you know, being around camp now since the start, you know, you hear some whispers, you get a sense of the room, and I'm not saying it's a done deal that Trent Williams is never coming back or anything like that, but it's felt like,

there's some resignation that this thing is going to drag out and may drag out into the season. And based on that, I think the Redskins had no choice, but you start coming up with a legitimate plan B. I mean, we've been watching it since the spring. The offensive line they haven't played in play right now is not good. And that's, and that's me being kind. I mean, if the quarterback's here could get hit, they'd be getting hit a fair amount, or at least they would be on the run for their lives and they had to do something. And Donald Penn, you know, look, he only played four games last year because of a leg injury.

He's 36. was a pro bowler in both 2016 and 2017 and so he can play and whatever he is right now, even if he's a bit out of shape or whatever it is, he's a better option seemingly than what they have. And they had to do something. And I think the real

question at this point is, is the Donald Penn signing and the return of Garen Christian to practice now for the last couple days? Is that plan B looking like the week one approach? And I wrote about that today on the athletic and I'm starting to think it may very well be. You know, in this

day and age with social media being such a huge part of the way people communicate. It's actually pretty amazing how little all of us really know about this situation. We're guessing that Trent, you know, had this medical scare and that perhaps the team didn't handle it well with them. We're guessing that Trent's at an age where he's got one more big deal left in his career and he's got a lot of leverage right now and may want to strike, you know, while the the iron's hot and while he has all this leverage and look at what the team has at left tackle before signing Donald Penn. You know, we're guessing that maybe Trent at 31 years old is saying, you know what, I'd like to play for a contender once in my career before my career winds down.

And this is my opportunity to get that. But we're not sure about any of this because he hasn't communicated at all. You know, in most of these cases in this day and age, the player would have communicated something via social media at the very least. I actually have received. I actually have for him in the way he's handling this, which is between him, his agent, and the team. I'm sure that that's, you know, and I'm sure there's a small circle of people who know specifically what is going on. But right now here on July 31st, without him being in camp and being a true holdout, what is your guess? Because I think we're all guessing to a certain degree. What is your guess about what this is primarily about? Yeah, I mean, having just, you know, finished up the NBA free agency,

season and Anthony Davis putting in for a trade request very publicly through his agents and most of these maneuvers being broadcast very publicly, you know, it's weird that we're in the situation where essentially nothing is being said from the camp of the player. If we were just talking about the money, I think there would be more out there, is my sense, because it's a standard approach. It wouldn't be abnormal. I don't think anybody would even look twice at it. Okay, really good player.

He only has one, his deal next. year that has less than $2 million of guaranteed money. He wants to secure more. Seems logical. But the fact that nothing is being said pushes, and combined with other things I've heard, had different conversations, pushes me towards it something else. Is it 100% all about his concern, frustration, anger with the training staff? I don't know if it's all that, but I do think that is, I think there's more chips being placed

on that bet as to what the issue is than the hold out. I mean, again, or then the financial part. But, you know, it is hard to speculate, and I don't want to, and I suspect you don't either, because it is, you know, you don't know what to say exactly when it comes to the medical situation. And look, the fact that they're not saying anything makes it more challenging. And I've tried. I think other people have too, and nobody is getting anywhere on that side of the aisle in particular. So, yeah, it's confusing for sure.

But, you know, like I said, if you maybe put some chips down right now, I'd go more on the, away from the money and more towards the training staff anger slash, you know, potentially other. other personal factors. Do you think the team's thinking about a trade as a possibility of moving on from this? I mean, I would hope they're at least contemplating if the things, you know, if the S hits the fan, what do we, what do we do? I would hope they always contemplating that. But I would think right now, you know, that that would be a move they're not looking to make.

I mean, even adding Donald Penn, even if we want to say that Donald Penn is a reasonable option and a week one potentially week one starter. You know, it's not the same thing as having arguably the best left tackle in football, especially at some point they're going to want to get Dwayne Haskins out on the field. You're going to feel a lot better with that

if Trent Williams is out there versus this other guy. So I would suspect that that's not somewhere that they're looking to go. Now, again, because it's, we don't know that much, it's hard to know exactly how, you know, how divided are the two sides. Is it just, you know,

the rights teams came out the other day and denied a report that suggested that Trent Williams never wants to come back or whatever it said is that true? Are they making a true statement or are they putting up a front right now? So my guess right now would simply be they're looking at the season as a whole. They need Trent Williams back and they're not necessarily looking towards a world where he doesn't exist. But like I said, I think the fact that they relented on the Donald Penn thing after letting

sit there for a few days and, you know, they added Corey Robinson, whatever. I think they are starting to at least acknowledge, hey, this thing may linger. more than we wanted to. We've got to start, you know, getting everybody up to speed. We can't just have, you know, basically a bunch of jags out there on the offensive line and training camp or something else. Yeah. I think that if, you know, in just thinking about what's next, you know, you've got to go with

at least an assumption of some sort. My assumption would be that the team actually feels like there's a legitimate chance. Trent Williams isn't, is going to, you know, hold tight and wait for the, the team to respond with a new deal or with a trade or something. So if the team actually legitimately feels that way, and perhaps that's the reason they went the Donald Penn route, because they actually need a solution for, you know, the first part of the season if Trent Williams isn't there, then it would really bother me if Bruce's stubbornness got in the way of doing what was best for the long-term interest of the team, which would be to try to get a ton of value back for Trent

Williams. You could argue right now there's no player on their roster that right now in the moment would bring back more via a trade that could help this franchise moving forward more than Trent Williams because now's the time to do it. He's got two years left on the deal. You mentioned that it's $2 million, you know, after next year. But the truth of the matter is if the situation were right with Trent Williams, more likely than not, he's playing the next two years for this franchise at, you know, a base salary of 11 and 12.5 million or whatever it was. I looked at it the other day. I don't know if that's exactly right. But the, I, but Bruce's stubbornness could get in the way of this. He may think, I don't want to set a precedent of a player,

you know, making demands, holding out and getting his way. But I would say, Ben, that this is not a precedent, that there's no other player on the roster that would have this kind of leverage in this particular situation like Trent does. Yeah, I mean, he has got a ton of leverage right right now. They have got massive uncertainty at left tackle. That's on top of the fact that the left guard situation is anything but settled. You've got a rookie quarterback, whether Tassan starts week one or not, I would assume no, but whether he does or not, he's eventually going to get in the lineup and you would like somebody to get back there with him. And also, look, I mean, the offense as a whole, there's some interesting parts, but there's no real strength unless you

or the offensive line with Trent Williams, Brandon Shurf, Morgan Moses, you know, as that, but that only works if Trent Williams is out there. So, you know, the ceiling, you know, I don't want to say that the ceiling drops dramatically, but yeah, it kind of does if he's not out there. So he's got all the leverage, but that's until the paycheck start. And once the paycheck starts, his are pretty large. I would like his paycheck. And at his age, is he going to just sit there and, you know, let that money go,

even if he wants out for whatever the reason, is he really going to sit there? and just say, well, I'm going to hold his stance. I mean, maybe he will. You and I are old enough to remember like Jarris White back of the day. It never showed up. Howard Slusher was his agent. Yes, yes, exactly. So, you know, that would be surprising, too.

But right now he's got the leverage. Redskins, I think, tried to gain a little bit back by the moves that they've just made. But, you know, we'll see. I'm not, I wouldn't say I'm optimistic. I wouldn't even say I'm necessarily pessimistic. but I just, the more time goes by and the less we hear from his side, it is feeling a little harder and harder to see how this thing gets resolved in a way that gets him back on the field soon.

But I don't know, by the way, I would also just say if the training staff thing is part of the issue, we're not hearing anything about that either. Like, I mean, they haven't made any changes there. So, I mean, if you are, you know, if this is a concern, they seem to your point of being stubborn perhaps, doesn't seem like anything's different there. So, you know, if trend, Williams has concerned about the staff, I don't know why it would be any difference.

Unless it's just a way to get more money somehow to say, fine, you're going to make me deal with the staff, you've got to pay me more. Unless that's some sort of a ploy. Yeah, nothing's changing on that end, the other end that appears. I'm just out of curiosity, and I don't know that you have the answer to this. I don't have the answer to this. I think I would have a decent guess. But when a player is holding out, can they still be randomly tested? Yeah, good question. I'm not 100% sure. about that and in his case obviously that is something sits and dope because of his past failed tests but I don't know the answer to that but is it is a question I was

sort of asking myself you know without inferring anything because I have no idea you know yeah is it conceivable that staying away is a way to get away from not having to take a test at a certain point but I don't know look I'll say this does Trent Williams want to be here at training camp for Richmond hell no he doesn't need this Now, they need him, and we could maybe argue, you know, he's had injuries and things like that. He needs to be with the training staff and, you know, get, you know, get hit, you know, pushed around a little bit, bang on the, on the bag of it here, all that. But generally, he doesn't need to be here and surely doesn't want to be here. So I'm sure there's no rush for him per se to end whatever issue is for him because, you know, what's going, even if they're finding him, I suspect they'll work that out.

If he actually shows back up, I suspect somehow that you don't lose money. That's just a guess on my part. Yeah, I can't imagine, by the way, just thinking it through that you could hold out and avoid, you know, as an under contract player, avoid a random drug test. I can't imagine that that would be in play. Now, you know, I think that a player like Trent Williams has been, I think the last suspension has enough time between now and the end. of that last suspension that perhaps he's on that scheduled testing, he's in that scheduled testing environment versus the random one. I don't know. But I would imagine that he'd have to take a test if he was scheduled to take a test or if he's under the random testing schedule,

he'd have to take a test even if he's a holdout. I just think, look, it's somebody, some of you may be out there shaking your head saying, why are you even going there? Well, because of his past, because he's been suspended twice for the same thing. And I just wish, before any of this holdout stuff happened, before we knew about the scalp and the benign tumor on his scalp, you know, any of that, I thought it made sense in a reboot environment, which the team was not going to take. I thought it made sense anyway to try to trade him and try to get an extract value.

I think they should have done the same with Kerrigan too. But that's a different, you know, mode of operation. moving forward. That's a true reboot and saying we're giving up on 2019 and 2020. All right. Well, that's the thing like, you know, covering the you and I talk typically about the wizards. And like the Wizards right now have the situation where they are looking like arguably the worst team in the NBA next year, but they still have Bradley Deal. For obvious reasons. And a lot of people think trade Bradley Bill, you're not going to be good, get some assets to rebuild. I think from the Wizards perspective, they still want to give the allure that they're trying to make the playoffs, that there's still a reason to buy, and go out there. And I think with the Redskins, to some degree, it's kind of the same thing.

I mean, look, they're coming off a year with the fan base for the first time and forever started to revolt a bit. The, you know, the warrant is many people going out to the stands. And this has never been an organization that seemingly is willing to go down the rebuild path. Sometimes, you know, you have bad years. You know, you get high draft hit. But they're not, that's not how they roll. They're about getting people in the stands, you know, the bottom line above, to my opinion over the last 20 years, often above, of the winning. If it coincides, great, but it doesn't necessarily go hand in hand. And I think this is maybe another example of that as to why you can make an argument. Trading Trent Williams is

best for the long-term health of the team. But at the same point, doing so limits your potential for this year. And they don't seem to ever want to give that impression. I think before they drafted Dwayne Haskins at the end of April, I think the mindset was delusional that were close. You We heard Bruce talk about we're close multiple times, and I think that they felt internally they were more the victim of bad luck than the victim of bad management in a bad roster. But I think that the introduction of Dwayne Haskins onto this roster may have given some people in the organization pause to think,

hey, what we're really in it for is to build something around this kid when this kid's ready to play. So they may be more willing to consider, you know, a more long-term approach because he's on the roster than they were prior to that. With that said, and you're right, they've never had that mindset. And from a business standpoint, it's really hard to take any other approach than try to sell hope for 2019 because of the incredible desperate situation they were in from an attendance standpoint and a television. rating standpoint in an interest level overall at the end of 2018. So it'll be interesting. But all right, let's move on to some other things.

I mean, I think netting out the Trent Williams thing at this point, I don't think anybody really knows the real story. And until we know that, it's hard to have a real definitive, you know, opinion unless you have one like I had prior to all of this, which is I would have traded Trent Williams in February or March. and tried to get a second and a third or a second and a fourth. And by the way, they may end up turning, if they do trade him, it may work out that they waited because we could get a team that gets an injury and gets desperate

and says, you know what, we'll give you our first for that guy. All right, tell me the latest from your perspective on the quarterback situation. I thought Jay, I thought Jay's comment yesterday, Ben, where he was quoted as saying, long way to go on Haskins, but he was also simultaneously very encouraging about Dwayne. But, you know, there was sort of the implication there in that one statement about Dwayne's readiness that he's got a long way to go. What's your take on the quarterback battle right now? Yeah, I mean, I would concur with K. Gruden. If we were dealing with almost any other situation, i.e., like, look, does everybody fear or think or worry that the ownership and Bruce Allen perhaps

before the season open or say, hey, we want this kid out on the field for some of those ticket buying reasons we just mentioned. I think people definitely think that's on the table. Now, that may not be, ultimately, Jay Gurdon may win that argument. And I think if he's pushing one side, it's, hey, he's not ready. We have a tough schedule early on. The offense, not just here in training camp, but just logically, is going to be crisper smoother with Case Keenham under center and maybe even Colt McCoy.

I mean, I wouldn't personally want to go with Colt McCoy for week one, let him be the the guy that comes off the bench and a pinch. But, yeah, it's clearly a much better chance to have things run smoothly with Keenham and so on going forward. And also, I would just simply say that, and this connects with Askins, if the Redskins' offense, if you flipped it, if the defense, like the defensive line was the offensive line, you're like, wow, that defensive line, you know, that offensive line looks so good with those pieces.

And you had the Josh Norman and the Landon Collins, you could feel pretty good about and think, okay, maybe we can lean on these other pieces to help the rookie. But that's not the way it is on the offense. Everything in the offense is up in the air. The receivers have looked pretty interesting in camp, but come on, we can't even say right now who the number one guy is. Gordon Reed is looked sharp. He's looked healthy.

He's saying he's healthy and feeling explosive, and that's great. But we all know his injury history, and he can't feel for sure that even by week one, that's still going to be the case. The running backs, Darius, guys, you know, gives him a chance to give them a hope to have a playmaker on the field, but he's still not taking an NFL snap in the regular season. So, you know, there's not much for a kid like Haskins to lean on when he clearly

has got the training wheels on. So it just makes so much more sense for them to figure out what they have across the board, go with Keenham, or like I said, or hypothetically called McCoy at the start, see what you have. And then from there, figure out a way to ease Keynes, to eat Haskins in. But, yeah, I'm with Gruden from what I see. You can see the physical traits with Haskins. You can see why people like them.

but at the same point, it doesn't look like he's ready for week one. And that is definitely not a knock. That's just the reality of a guy who only had one year of starting experience at college, who's making the transition from college to the pros. And, you know, like I said, he's dealing with the offensive line. Not good. Yeah. So he's got a lot working against him on top of his own experience.

And you'd give Keenham the edge over McCoy right now. And, by the way, not just you, but do you believe Gruden thinks Keenum has an edge over McCoy right now? I think so. I mean, look, I get it. Every year people seem to believe that Colt McCoy is going to be the starting quarterback or at least kind of an opportunity based on whatever they think they're interpreting from Gruden's comments or whatever. And I'm always like, yeah, let me see it. And it never happens. So, granted, in this case, Case Keenham is not Kirk Cousins. He's not Alex Smith. The door would seem to be more open for that. But look, Keenum has at least shown the ability to take a team into the playoffs. And last, the season. Colt McCoy doesn't last the season. He typically doesn't even last more than a few games, and his decision-making is a challenge. Often just in terms of the running into traffic and getting himself hurt. So, I mean, to me, it just feels like Keenan would be the more logical guy. The only question would be he's new to the offense. How quickly is he picking up? I think he's doing okay.

You know, a couple of mistakes here and there like they all do. But, yeah, to me, Keenon would seemingly be the answer unless somehow he gets to the finish line and just ultimately goes back to his safety net with the guy he's had on the roster for years. You mentioned Jordan Reed. I've also heard that Chris Thompson's look good. I really, I mentioned this, I don't know, a month and a half, two months ago that the hope offensively is not, you know, the legitimate hope is that Jordan Reed and Chris Thompson are healthy for the significant majority of games and are playing at their highest levels, because that really would be, you know, a real.

jolt to the offense to have Jordan Reed as an uncoverable pass-catching tight end when he's healthy. And Chris Thompson is a dynamic back, pass-catching back in particular on the field with, by the way, a veteran quarterback, or even if it were Haskins. But that's going to be the opportunity, I think, for the offense. I think the longer shot is hoping that a Terry McLaurin or a Josh Doxon, you know, has his career year or, you know, getting something from those guys. But the wild card for me offensively is Geis. I was not the biggest fan of Geis coming out.

I liked him. I didn't like him as much as some of the other running backs that came out in the 2018 draft. How has he looked? What has been the reaction to Geis and his readiness and what they're anticipating when we get to the regular season from him? Yeah, I mean, I always think it's tricky to gauge

what to make other running backs. I mean, there's really very minimal hitting and you can't tackle anybody. So at least with the receivers, you're going one-on-one with a defensive back. You can kind of do whatever you want. That seems a little more closer to what we'll see come Sundays. Look, I think Geis has looked fine. He appears healthy.

He's got good spirits. Everybody seems to be happy with him. And, yeah, I mean, the reality is he's the one guy they have who can give them a playmaking opportunity, you know, basically every down out of the back sale. I mean, Adrian Peterson, you know, did some good things last year, but I'm not counting on him for 16 games. And, you know, he sort of wore down to some degree as a season one long. Chris Thompson, yeah, that would be amazing to get production out of him.

But, again, that's probably limited to passing down when he's got the injury history. I'm with you. If Reed and Thompson in particular can look like the guys we've seen in the previous years, that changes so much. I think it would make it easier for those inexperienced wide receivers, the McCorns, the Cam Sims, who, I think it just continued to look really good in camp. Again, he gives them an opportunity to get one-on-one coverage

and use their physical abilities down the field and give the Redskins and elements that haven't used before. Same with Paul Richardson with his speed. But, yeah, I mean, if Reed isn't that guy, he can't, you know, something that comes up, same thing with Thompson, you know, then how do you replace that element with Reed? I don't think it's possible. Thompson, I think it's conceivable with a couple guys,

but he's got the most explosive ability for sure. out of the backfill on passing towns. Sticking with the wide receivers, because you went there. So everybody seems to think that Camp Sims has a chance to be a real surprise. So that's great. What about the two rookies? How have they looked in one-on-one matchups, regardless of who threw them the ball, Harmon and McLaurin?

Have they stood out here in the first week of camp or not? I think they have. I mean, maybe it's just I'm catching Kelvin Harman at the right times, and maybe it's because I was somebody who was really intrigued by his size and hands combination during the NFL draft process, but he looked really good to me. And, you know, I've been impressed what he's doing. McGlorn, you can definitely see the speed element for sure. And look, I also think Robert Davis, like, if you didn't know anything,

you'd say, who is that guy? He is making plays all over the place, and maybe, you know, to some degree, maybe he's facing more of third-string secondary guys. than others that maybe that's possible if he broke it down. But he looked good enough to the point where I keep thinking, wait, are they going to keep seven receivers? I don't think so. But I think the guys on the back end have shown a pretty good amount right now

and you can feel pretty good about their potential. But, you know, just like with a lot of positions on this team, potential isn't the same as proven success. And they don't have a lot of that at that position. Paul Richardson's the closest thing they have to a guy who's, you know, been there, done that, and he's coming off an injury, and he's not, you know, not exactly a pro-bowl receiver in his career. So there's a lot of questions at that receiver, but I think it's an exciting group. Gruden said that back in OTAs, and I think he's right, and I think we could

see some interesting developments over time as to the rotation there, because these guys really do have some interesting potential. What's the early word on Montez-Sweat? Man, he is just a big, fast dude. I mean, I know that's like the obvious. And we, you know, when he was drafted and, you know, the way he dominated it at the combine, all those tools, like, I mean, you watch it and you see it. This isn't just, you know, it doesn't feel like we're just watching some, you know, a guy at the underwear Olympics at the Combine having, you know,

having a really good performance. I mean, he looks, he looks the part. You know, I don't know if I'm going to say he's coming in and getting double-d-dits sacks or anything. As a rookie, there's a way to go. I think Ryan Anderson has looked pretty good as the other outside line. backer, but, you know, in terms of the potential and where this defense can go, I think when you look at sweat upside, not just by physically looking at him, but when you see him put things into motion, I think you can

definitely see why people are excited and should be excited about what he could potentially bring this defense. And for sure, if you have him on one side, Carragone on the other, and it legitimately is two guys just causing havoc. I mean, that's the absolute game changer. It never quite got there with Preston Smith. had some moments, but never really week to week gave them that element. I think, I think that Swett can do that for them soon and later. I don't know if it was today or yesterday, but Jay Gruden specifically singled out John Bostic in a very positive way as a communicator on the field and as a player.

I mean, have we learned here in the first week that it's Bostic that gave them the confidence to cut Mason Foster loose? I think there's definitely something to that. By the way, I don't know if anybody else has realized it, but John Bostic, he's worth 53, which is the number of the Jeff Bostic war. So if you have your Jeff Bostic jersey in the closet somewhere, bring them out. Yeah, I think there's probably something to that. I mean, look, is Cole Holcomb fast?

Sure. Is Josh Harvey-Cleman finally starting to develop out of just being a safety into a guy who can play the position? Yeah, I think so. is Sean Dionne Hamilton looking like a guy who's healthy after those injuries at Alabama? Yeah, I think so. But there's, I just named three dudes who are completely unproven on the NFL level. I mean, it's one thing that cut Mason Foster, but you can't just go completely with guys

who are, you know, haven't done it and, you know, late-round picks, things like that. Bostic is the steadier element. I do think that he gives them, I do believe he gave them the confidence to move on from Foster. I mean, my point on Foster, like the day or two before he got cut, I didn't think he was getting cut. But what I wrote back that day before was he is on the bubble from the standpoint of if the race can believe that other guys can start, he's not a guy you keep on the bench as a reserve.

It doesn't make any sense because you're not really having a reserve for first down. He's basically an early down guy. And then sure enough, they made the move pretty soon after. And I think that was because they decided that Bostic gives them a better version of Foster. and once you put him on the bench, like I said, you can kind of move on from there. Hey, what about number 58 from last year, the speed rusher?

McKinsey. How has he looked? Because I thought that he really at times has flashed on the field and regular season games. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I haven't noticed him a ton which isn't probably more me than him. But yeah, he's definitely athletic. He can help on special teams.

and yeah, I mean, there's an opportunity there for sure, I think, to get in as a fifth, as a fifth outside linebacker. I think that's a possibility. I mean, look, as we know, the last handful of spots come down to special teams, and, you know, they do special teams drills out here, but nothing really is happening, at least to my untrained to high. So I don't know if anybody's particularly standing out, we'll get a better sense of that come preseason, but he's one of those guys for sure that I think his roster spot hinges on what he can do in special teams.

But yeah, he does bring athleticism and, you know, that fit spot is, I would say, open for sure. Among the newcomers, has anybody turned more heads than Jimmy Morland? You can forget newcomers. I think he's like the, I think you can ask some fans, he might be the best player on the team. He's, I mean, every time you look up, oh, there's a murmur in the crowd, what just happened? and somebody made an interception. Oh, Jimmy Moreland, you mean? Yes, him.

I mean, it feels like that's where we're at. Obviously, it isn't completely, he's not running straight to the Pro Bowl, but he does seem to be one of those guys that just the ball finds him, or he's, you know, whatever it is, and he just constantly make plays. I mean, Haskins through two picks yesterday, sort of a quick, in sort of almost back-to-back fashion during a two-minute drill, and one of those guys who got the ball with Jimmy Morland, and he had had a pick earlier in the practice as well.

He just feels like there's a lot of confidence when he's out on the field. After minicamp, I asked Josh Norman, which of the young cornerbacks to keep an eye on, and he brought up Moreland as well. And, you know, he could be, you know, maybe he's ultimately just the backup slot to start the season, but it does feel like, especially considering that after the top three guys, I don't know if we can defend it to say who's the fourth. And with Moreland making the players that he is, it's conceivable to him. Is he going to

Who's going to return punts? Is it going to be Stroman again? Is it going to be Quinn? Or is Morland a possibility? I mean, Quinn and Stroman seem to be the two guys that I'm noticing out there the most. I asked Jay Gruden out there today. And there have been other guys. I'm just honestly just not positive who it was.

But I mean, I asked Gruden today. I said, look, you mentioned just the other day that Trey Quinn is essentially your starting slot, yet you're also using him in a return game. Does that have a lot of work for a slight guy who last year had nearly as many IR stints as games played? And Gurdon pulled back a little bit on the idea that he would be the starting slot. Like, well, you know, we'll see. We haven't named anybody as a starter. And if he turns out to be the best returner, then sure.

I mean, to me, it seems like that's getting, that seems a bit aggressive to have this guy do all that, considering, like he said, his frame and lack of experience and the injury history last year. but, you know, a lot depends on who else is in the mix. And you mentioned Strohman. Look, I think Stroman, you know, he got throwing into the fire last year, the defensive back. He did return. It's easy to sit here and say, yeah, why not Greg Stroman?

He's that guy, but I don't even know if he's making the team. Right. We just mentioned Jimmy Morland. You have Adonis Alexander, you have DRC, me, Danny Johnson's on the pub. I don't know if he's coming back off anytime soon. I feel like I'm forgetting somebody. But, like, they've got a lot of options at course.

corner, and I'm not saying Stroman is getting cut. I'm just saying, I can't you know, I've got to write to the pencil, not 10. Sure. So that leads me to this. I got two more questions. One more sort of roster oriented. First, you know, third and 10, and they've got five DBSs

on the field. Who are the five? So, I mean, I think, you know, obviously Norman and Dunbar and Collins are out there in some capacity. I mean, Monta and Nicholson, it doesn't feel, you know, it feels like he's been fairly stable so far, and that's obviously a huge deal because it's not like they have any other clear options to play free safety if he's not, if they don't have confidence in him. And then

I would, you know, to me, Fabian Moreau remains the fifth guy. I, maybe I'm just wrong and maybe others seem to be more down on him than I am. I still think he's got some pretty interesting potential. So to me, he would be the fifth guy. Like I said, if Jimmy Moore keeps this up, you know, Maybe there's some discussion there at some point, but I would assume more well as the fifth guy. Lastly, you know, and maybe you've already mentioned this player, but is there anybody that you get a sense that the coaches are absolutely sure is going to have an impact, you know, when the regular season starts that no one else is thinking of right now? Like I haven't heard Matt Flanagan's name mentioned at all. I haven't heard Sprinkles's name mentioned at all. And, you know, if they're going to run the football this year, you know, and they're going to do it every single time, Sprinkley's, on the field. That's probably not good, but Jordan Reed can't block.

Like, is there somebody that you think, you know, coaches are quietly very confident about? I don't know if this is quiet, but I feel like Cole Holcomb, considering he was a, you know, late day three pick, the fact that, like, I suspect that they were on the field right now in game one and putting out their real defense when they're in the nickel situation. I think he might be the other inside linebacker with Sean Dionne Hamilton. I mean, Bostic probably is not there for passing downs. I mean, maybe he is just as a veteran, but like in a perfect world. You know, a big emphasis for them going back to the drafts or going back to the off season

was adding speed and, you know, Mason Foster didn't have it. Holcomb does. He lacks experience for sure, but as a rookie, but it feels like he just gets mentioned a lot. And, you know, when I've looked out there on the field of times and you see, okay, this is a starting defense, looks like a nickel defense. There's Cole Holcomb. So, you know, considering, you know, sure, they drafted his kid from North Carolina, great, we'll see what happens to now.

He may be high in the rotation at a position where they don't have a lot of bodies. Yeah, I think that's a little surprising relative, you know, from the point that he was drafted to the fact that now he could be a guy that's playing a lot. Maybe Josh Hart, maybe I'm wrong on this, feels like he's maybe ahead of Josh Harvey Clemens. Who they liked last year. They loved him in nickel in situations last year, died situations. Yeah. Right, and maybe I'm wrong on that. We'll see it preseason.

And, you know, they mix and match a lot out here, but it feels like Holcomb is a guy who's gotten more buzz than you would imagine based on where he was drafted. Okay. Thanks. That was perfect. That's exactly what I wanted to do with you today because I knew you watch intently and I'm glad that you did this with me today. Follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Standing. And again, he's now writing for the athletic. He's not at NBC Sports Washington. anymore. Ben got a great new gig with The Athletic, and you can find him at Theathletic.com slash DC. All right, man. Thanks. Appreciate it, as always. Talk to you soon. Awesome, man. Appreciate it. All right. Thanks to Ben. Ben doing a great job with the athletic covering the Redskins. He's covered the Wizards for so long, doing a great job covering the skins. A quick word for Wind Donation. First of all, my experience with Wind Donation over the years has been very positive,

and I've mentioned this before. I've had a lot of friends. I've had a lot of listeners use Window Nation for new Windows. It's always worked for them. There's no risk in using Window Nation in that you can get a free estimate. You can call them up. They'll come out whenever it's convenient for you and they'll give you a free estimate that you can sit on for 30 days before pulling the trigger on it. So I would urge you if you've been thinking about new windows, at least call Window Nation at 866.90 Nation and give them a chance to come out and give you an estimate. Right now, that intense heat that we've had is definitely producing higher energy bills for you if you've got older windows. It also allows damaging UV rays to fade your valuables

and make your windows even less effective. Wind donation has over 80,000 satisfied customers, including me, and they've got an A-plus Better Business Bureau rating. They've got extra capacity right now, and they want to keep their factory busy and their installers working, so they're offering something for the first time ever. Per usual, you'll get one window free for every window you buy, no minimum or maximum purchase required on all style of windows. But for the first time ever, no down payment, no payment of any kind, and no interest for 24 months. If you buy now, you'll start saving now, and you'll literally pay nothing for two full years. Trust the window company I trust and visit windownation.com or call 86690 Nation to get one free window for every window you buy, plus no down payment, no payments of any kind, and no interest for two full years. Call soon like in today because this sale ends July 31st. All right, let's talk some Washington Nationals and trade deadline stuff with an old friend Tim Schovers. Tim was a co-reux.

worker with me at 980. He did the morning updates for several years. He's been at NBC Sports Washington for a few years now, and he hosts a podcast called The Racing Presidents, which is a Nats Postgame podcast, which you can get on any of the platforms that you get podcasts on and at NBC Sports Washington. And one of the reasons I've sort of targeted Tim for this particular time is Tim grew up in Atlanta and it's a huge Braves fan as well. And by the way, the biggest college sports fan other than Tim Murray. I think you, Murray and I were the only three major sort of college football and college basketball fans at 980 when we were there. I mean, you know, Doc followed it and liked it, but the three of us were super into it.

And we always had a lot of great conversations, Tim, a product of the University of Wisconsin and the Badgers. I wanted to have you on today because the Nats are obviously in the midst of this huge series with the Braves and they're getting ready to play the third of three here today. But I want to start with the trade deadline and ask you what your expectations were of the Nats heading into the trade deadline and what you think may or may not happen between now and the end of the day. Well, I think, Kevin, a lot of it hinges on what Mike Rizzo knows about the health of Max Scherzer. And so if Scherzer's coming back August 5th and he's going to be ready

to go the rest of the year, no problems. And I think he's targeting a reliever today. But if after what he saw last night from Eric Fetty and most recently from Joe Roth, if he thinks Scherzer's going to be out a little longer, then I think his top priority has to be another starter. So give me the starters that he could be targeting today and then give me what's left of bullpen possibilities before the end of the day. Because we've seen a little of both here over the last two days with other teams? Well, I'm not going to be saying any names like Chris Taylor, Justin Verlander. So your casual baseball fan listeners might not be familiar with some of these guys,

but like Mike Leak, who recently threw a no-hitter. Out West is someone who has been mentioned a lot. You know, there just haven't been that many big-name starters available. Trevor Bauer is probably the biggest one after Marcus Stroman went off the market. So whoever they get is probably going to be like a. fourth or fifth guy and someone else on a team that's selling. And it's not going to be any big game. The Mets aren't going to move Sindergaard, right? I don't think so, especially how they started him last night. If they had any, if they felt they were really going to move him, I can't imagine

throwing him on the mound and taking a chance of an arm injury. And the truth of the matter is they've won five in a row and they still have a lot of games left with other wild card contenders. I wonder if the move for Stroman, and right now, the ask on Diaz, their closer being apparently, according to reports, super high, if they actually think that they've got a chance to make a run and get back into the end of contention for a wild card. Yeah, I think what the Stroman move was more for 2020, more than it was for a 2019 wildcard push, because if you bring everyone back, now you have one of the best staffs in all of baseball. It would rival the starting staff here in Washington. They do have a little bit of a chance, but I think they're looking more towards

next season. What if they aren't able to make a move today? The starter thing, I agree with you, and it would be if they were to make a move for a fifth starter today, that would tell you all you need to know about the health of Max Scher and the legitimate concern for Scherzer here moving forward. But what if they aren't able to add bullpen relief? This is clearly their biggest, you know, weakness and their biggest flaw and a flaw that could get completely exposed down the stretch or in the postseason if they get there, what would it say to you if they weren't able to pull the trigger or make a deal to add bullpen relief? If you're a fan or if you're on the team, I imagine it's a demoralizing feeling, Kevin, because the bullpen problems have been an issue not in the last months of the last week since April,

and people have been targeting all season the deadline for Mike Rizzo to make a move. So if he comes up completely empty, especially with absolutely nothing to show for it in the bullpen, I would imagine that NASF fans, when you add on Max Schurzer on the IL, the feeling of catching Atlanta would dwindle and dwindle. Is Shane Green still available? Has he been dealt yet or not? He is not. Kirby Yates is not.

Those are the two biggest names available on the deadline. I don't anticipate the Nats getting either one of them just because since they are the biggest names out there, it would require the biggest package in return. And I don't think the Nats have or are willing to deal with whatever San Diego and Detroit want back. Do you think that the Nats, do you think that Davy Martinez and even Mike Rizzo would be in trouble if they don't make the postseason this year? I think Davey Martinez would be in trouble if they don't make the playoffs. I mean, it would be the end of year two and the last guy was here, two years and he made the playoffs both times and they still didn't keep them around. So if this team

doesn't make it two years in a row, especially when they spend $140 million on a third starting pitcher and Patrick Corbyn and they still are on the couch in October, I'm guessing he would be done. All right. Let's go to the series with the Braves, these first two games and in the third coming up here this afternoon and then get to a bigger picture on the division and the wild card race. Did the Nats help themselves late last night by battering the Braves bullpen up a little bit and scoring six runs on like nine hits over the last two winnings, especially with the short turnaround? Yeah, they did.

The Nats really did help them. So even though it was a loss because, A, they didn't use any one of significance out of the bullpen. So that helps. But then also, yeah, they beat up Luke Jackson. I don't know if he would be trusted to get the clothes today. The Braves bullpen is just as weak as the Nationals bullpen, and also the Braz recent addition, Chris Martin, who they traded for last night. He's not going to be in town yet.

So their bullpen will not be getting reinforcements today. Sanchez goes today against Atlanta's best starter in the finale of this huge series. And they'll have others down the stretch. I mean, they still, what do they have after today? Do they still have 11 head-to-head, something like that? Yeah, they'll have eight head-to-head with Atlanta, and then they have five against Philly late in September. Right, eight against Philly, eight against Atlanta,

and then those five, which includes the game that got rained out a few weeks ago in late September. Before finishing, by the way, I think with Cleveland, which is an odd way to finish up the season, where both teams could be desperate for wins to try to qualify for the postseason. But give me your... handicapping of the National League East right now the rest of the way? I think Atlanta is a better team than that, and I'm not just saying it because of where I was born.

I think that they're a better team, especially if Max Scherzer's not pitching. If Scherzer comes back and the Nats can figure out something in the fifth starter spot and maybe at a bullpen arm today, then maybe they could catch him, but I still don't think so. but if this is the same team on August 1st that they have on July 31st, I do not see them catching Atlanta. And I do think the Nats will finish ahead of the Phillies. I think the Nats are firmly within the wildcard chase, but it's going to be very, very cluttered up there when you throw in whoever doesn't win the Central.

Yeah, I mean, both teams that don't win the Central, right? You know, between the Cardinals, Cubs, and Brewers, two of those three are going to be in significant wildcard contention, you would think. with one of them winning the division, the Giants have gotten hot of late, which may mean that Madison Bumgarner is not going to be dealt. What you're feeling about that? Because it seemed like everybody thought he would be dealt, and now that they've won a bunch of games here recently, maybe they're going to hold on to him.

Yeah, my guess is they will hold on to them because they've gotten back into the hunt and are in the fringe of the wild card chase, which Kevin kind of throws a quirk into this season. you know, this is the first year we don't have the August waiver deadline. And so you have these teams who on July 31st are competitive and probably are going to stay pat and not make any moves. But in years past, would probably start dealing guys on August 15th or August 20th or whatever. And now they're kind of going to just sort of be stuck with whatever roster they have. Yeah, you know, I'm glad they made that change because I remember, I don't know, it was seven, eight years ago, you know,

all the big news about the trade deadline. and then it's like a couple of weeks later there are trades being made and I said, wait a minute, I thought there was a deadline on all these trades. So this is a firm trade deadline, end of day today. What you end up with after today is what you're stuck with the rest of the way. All right. I mean, I was thinking also just about the season that the Dodgers are putting together right now. And they've got like a plus 161 run differential.

I mean, they're having just a dominant season. We know anything can happen in October, in a best of five or a best of seven. But do you agree that this may be as prohibitive a favorite we've had in the National League in a long time? Absolutely, Kevin. I don't remember the last time I felt that one team in the NL was so far and above everyone else. I mean, there were years where the NACs had the best record in the National League, but we didn't feel this way in July or even September that we do about. the Dodgers. And, you know, just look at who they started last weekend here in D.C.

Ryu, Kershaw, and Bueller, three guys who might finish in the top, what, 12 of the Siyang race. So it's, it's, they're pretty loaded. Tim, thanks. Appreciate it. Really good to catch up. Good luck with the podcast. The racing presidents. It's a postgame, it's a Nats postgame press, a podcast that you do in short form, too. So it's like perfect. for a Nats fan that maybe didn't see the game or didn't see all of the game or wants a real concise recap of each game. How quickly after the game is that out?

We get it out two hours after the game and it's bite size, 15 minutes just for the fans you mentioned. So if you miss the game, feel free to catch it up on the podcast with us. Perfect. So racing presidents, that's the podcast, get it on any podcast platform. And at NBC Sports Washington. Tim Schovers, thanks so much, man. Appreciate it. Thanks, Kevin. By the time a lot of...

Three, two, one. By the time a lot of you listen to this podcast, perhaps the Nets and Braves will have already completed the game today. Big game for them, you know. It's like they had the Rendon Grand Slam on Monday night, and then last night they got absolutely waxed. Eric Fetty and had just a dreadful second and third inning, giving up nine runs. and even though they made a run back into the game, and they actually had a chance in the ninth. I mean, it was crazy. I was flipping back and forth as they were,

it went from 9-0 to 11-2, and then it was 11 to 5, and then all of a sudden I turned back, and it's 11 to 8, and they still, I think there was one out in the ninth when they got it to within three runs. But they did beat up the Atlanta bullpen a little bit, which could help today.

But they get Atlanta's best starter today with Annabelle Sanchez on the mound. it would be nice to win this series and get this series and get it back to four and a half games because the euphoria over the Grand Slam game winner in the 6th the other night from Rendon would be snuffed out pretty quickly if you lose two straight and all of a sudden you're back to six and a half back. Not to mention the fact that you could be at the end of today in third place because the Phillies are only a half game behind now the Nats after I think they put together a stretch of seven wins in their last 10 games. All right, wanted to get to

a couple of things to close the show. Nick Bonacani, the great Hall of Fame linebacker of the Miami Dolphins, passed away today at the age of 78. And whenever I think about Nick Bonacani, I like a lot of NFL fans, think about the 72 Dolphins, you know, the first undefeated regular season 14 and no team, the only undefeated regular season and postseason team in NFL history. They won 17 and owe that year the perfect dolphins, which every year, you know, we get the team that's undefeated, the last undefeated team, they finally lose that game and the 72 dolphins, you know, break open a bottle of champagne and celebrate. But the reason I think about those 72 dolphins is it was a no-name defense, but a great defense with, you know, future Hall of

Famers on that defense. And that was the team, obviously, that beat the Redskins in Super Bowl 7, 14 to 7. The Redskins had had under George Allen an 11 and 3 regular season. They were a dominant regular season team. So were the Dolphins in the AFC. And the Redskins, you know, went into that game against an undefeated team in a pickum game. It was a Pickham Super Bowl point spread-wise. And they lost the game and they sort of got dominated. The Redskins defense was phenomenal that year. It was George Allen's super conservative offense with Billy Kilmer at quarterback. You know, a lot of us still think that if Sonny had played in that Super Bowl, if he'd been healthy and played in that Super Bowl, maybe the Redskins would have won Super Bowl 7. But they lost. That was

really one of my first memories. The 71 season is really my first memory of Redskins teams. George Allen's first team, that 71 season that went 9-4-1 and got to the postseason. It was the Redskins' first playoff season since 1945, which in 1971 is only a 26. year stretch, but the Redskins who had been great from, you know, when they moved here from Boston in the late 30s with Sammy Baugh into the 40s had not been to the playoffs in 26 years. Vince Lombardi in the one season had a winning record, but they were not a playoff team. And George Allen came in and said the future is now and traded away a lot of players for veteran players, a lot of draft choices for veteran players, a lot of X Rams that he had coached in Los Angeles.

And in that first season, the first season I really remember, you know, vividly anyway, as a sports fan with that 71 season because George Allen really made football the thing here with that 71 team. Sunny and Sam and the 60s teams and Charlie Taylor and Bobby Mitchell, they were exciting teams. But nothing captured this town like George Allen did in 1971. And he's the one really with that first playoff team. And then the 72 team that went to the Super Bowl that made the Redskins the number one story in town. And they went on a run there from 1971 until Gibbs left in 92. You know, they went on a run of being one of the best franchises in the NFL for 21, 22 years. Anyway, when I hear one of the Dolphins 72 players, I just always think about that 72 Dolphins team,

and it brings me back to the Redskins' 72 team. And that 72 Dolphins defense was the no-name defense. Yet it had stars like Bonacani and Jake Scott and Dick Anderson, the two safeties. Jake Scott would eventually play for the Redskins. Manny Fernandez was a really good player. They had really good players defensively. And then offensively they had a Hall of Famers,

you know, with Larry Zonka and Bob Greasy and Paul Warfield. And it was just, it was one of those teams. You have to remember, it's interesting, Aaron, and you may be interested in this, and you may not at your age. Older people might be more interested in this. In 1972, you're still talking about a bias towards the AFL, a feeling or this impression that longtime NFLers had about the AFL. Now, the AFL had won Super Bowls.

They had won Super Bowl 3, the Jets had won Super Bowl 3, the Chiefs had won Super Bowl 4, and the Colts as an AFL team, but a former NFL team had won Super Bowl 5 over the Cowboys. But there was still this feeling, you know, in 1972, which was, you know, a full two years after the full merger, that the AFC at that point wasn't just the AFL anymore, but the AFC was inferior. and the truth is it wasn't. You know, the Dolphins were the best team in the league. The Steelers were on the verge of becoming the best team in the league, and the Raiders were a dominant team as well.

It happened very quickly. Now, you had NFL teams that moved to the AFL, all right, the Cleveland Browns, the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Baltimore Colts all moved from the NFL to the NFL to balance out the two leagues with an AFC and an NFC. But in 1972, when the dolphins went 14 and 0, 17 and overall and beat the Redskins, you know, the points spread alone tells you what the impression was of the two conferences. The NFC was still thought to have most of the former NFL teams and to be superior.

You had a 16 and 0 team at that point going into the Super Bowl that was a dead even. The game was a pick-em game with the Redskins in Super Bowl 7. The Redskins had lost three games in the regular season. Now, the Redskins were thought to be the best defensive team in the NFL in 1972. In fact, I think, I'm going to look this up, but I think defensively in 1972, the Redskins were either first or second overall in the league that year. I can find that here. Actually, third.

Okay, so the actual overall ranking of their defense, I'm sorry, was fourth overall, but it was a dominant defense the Redskins had in 72. But Nick Bonacani, and we got into this conversation because he passed away today at the age of 78. The Dolphins had a great defense as well. And that particular season that the dolphins had was an incredible season, which included, I think, three shutouts somewhere in that neighborhood, including, you know, a playoff run. This is interesting.

This may be interesting to you, Aaron. So back then in 1972, the best record in the league did not host necessarily the postseason games. They were on a rotating basis by division. The 14 and 0 dolphins played a home divisional round game against the Browns, and then went on the road as an undefeated best record team for the AFC championship game into Three Rivers Stadium to face the state. dealers. They did not have home field advantage in the AFC title game. The Redskins got lucky. It was the NFC East's year if they got to the conference championship game to host the NFC championship game. And by the way, they ended up playing the wildcard team, the Cowboys,

anyway, in the NFC title game. But anyway, 1972 was one of those years, had an undefeated team. The Redskins had their best team under George Allen and one of their best teams ever in their first team that actually made a Super Bowl, and they lost to those dolphins 14-7, not scoring at all on offense. Missed a field goal. Kurt Knight missed a field goal in that game. Kilmer had a wide open Jerry Smith in the end zone, and the ball hit the crossbar. This is when the goalposts were at the goal line.

But they scored on a blocked field goal, a famous blocked field goal of Garrow Eupremians. You know, blocked field goal by Ted Vactor, and then Eufremian picked it up and tried to throw it and threw it backwards to Mike Bass, who ran it in for a touchdown. And that put the Redskins back into Super Bowl 7 early in the fourth quarter. They had a chance with the ball down 14 to 7, but we're unable to get it done. But anyway, Rip Nick Bonacani, an all-time great. And by the way, one of the first co-hosts of that HBO NFL show, which was very popular with Len Dawson and Nick Bonacconi on it in the 1980s, I think,

really is when that show launched. I could be wrong about that. By the way, you said before the show started, and this is a gambling recommendation from Aaron, who said there is a stinko baseball line today and tell everybody what it is? Yeah, so the Dodgers are playing at Colorado, which is actually a 3 p.m. game. I was hoping this would be a night game. But Ryu, who is, you know, we've talked about a bunch, is by far Sy Young contender, on the mound for the Dodgers.

And yet the Dodgers are only about a minus 1.30 favorite right now. now. There are things that reasons for it. He doesn't pitch particularly well against Colorado, and it is in Colorado. But that line should be a lot higher than it is, and that line's getting crushed. The public is absolutely crushing the Dodgers right now, and the line's pretty much frozen. So that might be a smell test pick. A July 31st smell test baseball selection. The Rockies at home today against the Dodgers, if you get this in time, you're going against the likely Cy Young winner. in Rio, the pitcher for the Dodgers. Thanks to Ben Standing for joining us on the show today.

Thanks to Tim Schovers for joining us on the show today. We are going to do a show tomorrow. Tommy will call in from the beach, but we will do a show tomorrow. We will not do a show on Friday this week because I'll be heading out, trying to get a couple more days. And just as a reminder,

I'm back on 980 starting this coming Monday, 7 to 10 a.m. Monday through Friday. Podcast isn't going away. We'll do a podcast as well. We'll continue, by the way, for the month of August to do shorter weeks on the podcast and then get into our regular Monday through Friday schedule for the week of Labor Day, starting that Tuesday after Labor Day. If you're on iTunes, rate us, review us, subscribe.

That always helps. Have a great day.