The Kevin Sheehan Show - Redskins/Browns Recap With Cooley and Keim

Episode Date: August 9, 2019

Kevin recaps the Redskins/Browns preseason game with Chris Cooley and John Keim. What did they think of Dwayne Haskins' debut? Plus, some Nats/Mets talk. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. I'm here. Aaron's here. Coolie's going to join us briefly because he's running out of phone juice. We're going to get to him in a moment and maybe another guest before the end of the show. Let me just start with what to me was the most interesting part of last night going into the game and after the game. And that was Dwayne Haskins and his debut as a professional quarter. in a pre-season game. I was impressed, and although, you know, as I've said very often over the years about these pre-season games, they are misleading. You can evaluate, you know, player stuff as a fan, but you don't even really know, the coaches know, but there were things about Dwayne Haskins last night that I liked. And I think that we will see, this is a prediction, that we will see enough progress made in this preseason.

And then my confidence level being not very high with respect to the other two quarterbacks, Colt McCoy and Case Keenham, I think Dwayne Haskins will start his first regular season game before week four, or I'm sorry, by week four. I think the giant game in week four is the latest he will end up being in the starting lineup. Cooley coming up, let's get to the game take. Pay attention. Here's Kevin's Game Take. All right. In these preseason game takes, you know, there's nothing that you can really go over in terms of the results, the scoring drives, you know, a key third down stop or a crucial third down make or a bad coaching decision. It just doesn't apply to the preseason. So you focus in on players and performances and what you saw, you know, based on talent, sort of raw talent. Jimmy Morland was the star of the game. The seventh round pick from JMU. We heard from the jump this year that this guy could play, even.

even though he played at the FCS level at James Madison. Cooley told me after the first OTA on this podcast, I said to him, what about Morland? He goes, well, Morland's a lock to make the team. And I said, oh, really? A seventh run pick? He said, no, no, no, he's a lock to make the team. And he will likely start when we get to the regular season. He broke up three passes, forced two fumbles, and had six tackles.

That's a highly productive preseason game for your first one as a rookie. Corners don't walk into this league and dominate in their rookie year. I think it's going to be hard to keep a ball hawk guy like him off the field, given what this team will likely need, which is great defense, a defense that turns people over, shortens fields, all of that. He was the star, if you want to call it that, of the Redskins in the preseason opener. I like Casanova McKinsey. I've mentioned his name many times, including back to last year, number 58, in your

program. I just think he is one of those obvious speed guys off the edge defensively. He got hurt late in the game. I don't know if it's serious. I just like McKinsey. I thought Tim Settle looked the part as a defensive tackle. The Virginia Tech stand out and now in his second season here, he's big, he's athletic, he's strong, he was coached by Bud Foster. I think Tim Settle's future as a Redskin is not in doubt in terms of being a part of this franchise for years to and being part of that rotation as early as the beginning of this year. And it's a pretty good rotation to begin with. I thought the fifth rounder, Wes Martin, was very impressive at guard,

as much as you can evaluate guard play as an outsider as a guy watching from his couch in a preseason game. You don't really know what their responsibilities are. He looked big, strong, physical. I thought the running back, Craig Reynolds, who played late, Thysman recommended that we keep an eye on him on the radio show yesterday. I thought he looked really good. He's also surprisingly 225 pounds.

Doesn't look like he's 225 pounds given his quick feet and explosion. I thought he was impressive. And then we get to Dwayne Haskins. Dwayne Haskins, to me, impressed me last night. And I put it out on Twitter, Aaron, and a lot of, you know, are you watching the same game? I'm watching? A lot of negative responses. Sheen, now that you're back on radio, now you got rose-colored glasses again, all of this stuff.

And then I got on radio this morning at 980 and took a lot of calls and people were, I think, you know, equally as impressed. Look, he had some bad plays. He had two interceptions. But here's the net of it on Dwayne Haskins. I basically, you know, I think most of you know, I think Mike Shanahan is one of the best coaches and one of the best offensive minds and quarterback gurus in, you know, recent NFL history, you know, going back to three decades. He is a friend of mine. I talk to him, you know, fairly often about football. He's come on the podcast a bunch of times. I like Mike a lot. He knows quarterbacks. And we were having a conversation once about maybe it was Kirk Cousins, I think. And he said, look, there are things

that you can coach up and guys can improve on, but they'll never be great at it if it's not innate if it's not natural. And those are the things you look for in quarterbacks to see if they have these natural abilities. First of all, there are things like size and strength and arm strength that you can't teach really, right? You can't teach size. And Haskins has all that. He's got the size, he's got the presence, and he's got the arm. But the other things really are things that, again, I'm not a football coach. I don't know, I wouldn't know what to look for in a quarterback from a standpoint, but Mike Shanahan told me a while back, and I think it was as it related to, I think it was specific to Kirk Cousins. He said, number one, there is an innate feel pocket presence thing that guys either have or they don't have.

You know, it's the basketball vision. You know, when you're leading a fast break, you've got guys that got eyes in the back of their head. They've got good peripheral vision. They've got good feel. They understand spacing and timing. And you know the guys that have that, and then there are guys that are straight ahead, track athletes, and can't see anything, you know, out of their periphery. And he goes, you can coach some of that, but basically your upside if you don't have it innately, you know, is limited. Well, one of the things that was obvious to me last night is that Dwayne Haskins has really good pocket presence. Those two quick scrambles on dropbacks where he felt the pressure and he stepped up away from. from the pressure and then immediately in a very decisive way, took off and scrambled for eight yards on one and then 13 on the other. That one got called back courtesy of a holding

penalty. It was impressive to me. He's got that naturally. Shanahan's also told me about guys that throw with anticipation versus guys that don't. You can coach up better anticipation, but if you have it innately and you have the feel for throwing guys open rather than waiting for guys to get open and then throwing it. You have a real good chance to be a good quarterback. Haskins throws with anticipation. You can see it. Now, again, no game planning, not even starters on the field for him, but you could see some of that stuff. Look, the last part of this, and Aaron, you watched college football, you and I are huge college football fans. I am convinced after watching Dwayne Haskins last night, and his obvious mobility that a lot of

us didn't think he really had. I never really considered him to be totally immobile. You know, he was in a zone reed, shotgun, you know, style of offense, quick throws, and he had to scramble every once in while, but it was more of a lumbering big dude scramble. A Rothlessburger style. A Rathlisberger scramble. Not last night. This dude has either lost weight or lost body fat or just worked out and gotten quicker and faster. Had quick feet was decisive, and I thought he moved pretty well. well. And then by the way, slid very well at the end of one of those runs. Had a reed option keeper for, I don't know, eight or nine yards, had an escape from a clear-cut sack that he got out of the pocket and nearly completed a throw down the field. That was impressive. The net of it on Haskins is

the stuff that's hard to teach and hard to coach, he has naturally. The things that he doesn't do very well are coachable, footwork, not very good, not very consistent. assistant. It leads to the inaccuracy that he sometimes has, and his inaccuracy is a high throw. It's a throw that sails. And you saw that last year at Ohio State. Go watch the Michigan State game. Third and ten, big, you know, Michigan State's defense was nasty. They did not convert many third downs, and it's because he got pressured, his footwork got bad, and the ball sailed. And you saw that last night, but that's coachable. I also love the fact that he wasn't rattled, looked apart out there. He comes from Ohio State.

I was listening to Doc on the way in, and Doc made the point. He's like, you know, the spring game had twice as many people at Ohio State than the preseason game did last night in Cleveland. You know, he's used to this. He's played big-time college football, big pressure spots. He was not, you know, he was totally up to the occasion of a first pre-season game with, by the way, a lot of pressure. You know, a lot of people, a lot of eyeballs on him last night.

I also thought he competed really well. I also thought he looked comfortable in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage. I was encouraged by his performance. I was impressed. We'll see if it continues. But one of the things I know, I know what Case Keenham is. I know what Colt McCoy is. And neither one of them is going to lead you to anything significant in terms of organizational results.

They're just not. So I think if Haskins continues to make progress, and I'd give him the reps, and he got two quarters last night, I'd give him starter's reps next week with starting players, with him against hopefully starting players for the Bengals. Get him his reps. Find out if he can close the gap between himself and Colton Case. And if it's close, I'd play him. And if it's getting close, then I certainly wouldn't wait long to play them.

And I will say what I've said multiple times on this podcast and the radio show for the last week. If we get to week four or five or six, and they're one. and three, or they're two and three or one and four, and the quarterback play isn't very good, and he's still sitting, that will be a red flag for me. The other, so the criticism, here are the three criticisms. They're past protection, Geron Christian, some of the others, especially against Miles Garrett. Obviously, they're not game planning.

They're not chipping. You're not going to see one-on-one Miles Garrett against anybody other than Trent Williams in a real game. Gareth, he's an MVP, a defensive MVP talent. He's that good. Samajie Piron's weak pass pro attempt with Dwayne Haskins in there that got Haskins hit was really a lack of competition in my view. But Geron Christian and the others, you know, the past protection wasn't very good. Probably made a case for Trent Williams if this thing is about money. I didn't think Case Keenham looked that good. He threw the only touchdown of the game. It was a broken coverage, a busted coverage for Cleveland.

I just know what Case Keenham is. I mean, you put a great team around him, a healthy, great team around him like he had in 2017, great defense, big time offensive line and running game, great receivers, which by the way, and I know everybody will roll their eyes and say he's making excuses for Kirk. Kirk didn't have that last year, had the receivers, but everybody else was hurt or out, and the coaches weren't there that were there the year before. I just have never been a massive Case Keenham fan. I don't hate him. Like, I think, I think he's fine in a pinch, but some of you were really excited when they traded for him. I wasn't.

If you start him 16 games for this team, six and ten's the best you're going to do. What was Denver last year? Six and ten, right? With a great defense and with a rookie of the year running back. I know they didn't have great wide receivers, but that's what he is. He's a six and ten quarterback. Get Haskins on the field, please. Sooner rather than later.

Get him coached up. Get him comfortable. Let's see him earlier. I think you will. I really do. The last criticism is this. I just don't love the fact that nobody played for them last night. Your starter is basically sat, you know, 95% of them anyway.

Your projected one starter is dressed, worked out, and then didn't play. Other teams are doing the same thing. The Redskins aren't the only team. The Redskins haven't won anything with any of their players for a long period of time. and they keep doing preseason sort of the same way, year and year out. You know, guys that I don't understand why the team would be so confident about didn't play last night. You know, Paul Richardson didn't play last night. None of your starting offensive linemen played last night.

Like, is Morgan Moses that great that he can just sit the first preseason game? I understand that if Ryan Kerrigan's going to sit out the first, you know what you have in Ryan Carrigan. You know what you have in Adrian Peterson. I understand that. You probably know what you have in Josh Norman to a certain degree. Do you really know what you have in Monta Nicholson yet? He didn't play. I heard Doc say this morning. He goes, Montaigne-Nickleson did not play. Seriously? No, he's serious. He didn't play. And so instead, you got Troy Apke and Deshaezer, Everett. I like Everett to a certain. I can't start for you. He might have to. Um, anyway, I, I It's the old adage, keep making the same mistakes over and over again and expecting new results is just a bad path.

And I don't think Jay Gruden has learned anything from these pre-seasones in the past. I don't think anybody should be sitting out as if they earned the right to sit out the first preseason game. None of them have, really. If Trent Williams were in uniform, fine. Adrian Peterson fine, Ryan Carrigan fine. That's the list. I wouldn't even sit John Allen. John Allen's proven something here in two seasons,

but he's a third-year player. Get him the hell out there. Get Duran Payne out there. Darius Geis, I hope it was because he was hurt. Jake Gruden said after the game, he's got reasons for all of the guys that sat. Okay. You better be ready in the opener,

or we're going to just absolutely annihilate you again. if you come out in the opener at Philadelphia and look ill-prepared with your starting lineup that barely played in the preseason. I was happy that he let Dwayne Haskins chuck the ball, 18 times. I said, I think on the podcast yesterday, I'd like to see 60, 14 times, I'm sorry, he threw it 14 times. I'd like to see 60 pass attempts in the preseason from him minimum. And whoever's going to start in Philadelphia, the next two weeks I want 40 plus attempts. That's what they should be doing there.

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It's a no-brainer. It saves you time and money. Right now, my listeners, get an offer that includes a four-week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Here's how you get it. Stamps.com, upper right-hand corner, the microphone, click that on on the top of the homepage and use my code, Kevin D.C. That's K-E-V-I-N-D-C. Stamps.com, enter Kevin, D.C. All right, let's bring in Kooley, who is on the road back from Cleveland, and his phone is dying,

so we're going to get as much time in with him as we can because his charger isn't working or you broke it somehow. And I don't want to hear the story because I want to hear you talk about football here. What did you like last night? What didn't you like? I liked that Duane played a lot

and that they got him, you know, 14, what, 14 attempts and probably 15 or 16 dropbacks. I think that he gets a lot from that. I liked a couple of young receivers. I thought that Ryan Anderson looked pretty good last night, the Shayser Everett, a couple of young players. But, you know, there wasn't a ton to really like from that game, in my opinion.

Before I get to what I didn't like, I want to address it. It's a practice. And you can look out of the game as much as you want, but I'm not overly caught up in the fact that they didn't look good. As far as what I didn't like, I didn't like that they didn't play any of their starters. Right. I just, I didn't. You understand that Jay's been this team's head coach for a while,

and that these systems have been in place. But you got put behind the curve a little bit because you played your two's against Cleveland's ones, and then you end up having, you know, your threes against their two. later in the game. And I think after a month of camp and all the OTAs and everything that they've been in, I think you need to feel some success. And I think you need to set a standard with your first team to say, this is who we are. And moving forward to twos and threes, and if you want to compete, this is what you're competing against. And players recognize that in the game. So I didn't like that Duran Payne and John Allen, second and third year players,

are exempt from playing in the first game. I got no problem with those guys playing. If it's three series, it's three series. If you're worried about injury, it's 15 plays. These guys are going to play a thousand plays this season. That to me was what I didn't like. And I think you could have got a lot better looks that you wanted to get with some of those guys.

I totally agree with that. I don't understand it. Now, just so you know, because you probably weren't paying attention to the rest of the games, a lot of teams approached this first preseason game the same way and didn't play, you know, the majority, the significant majority of their starters. So it's not like they're the only team doing it. But he hasn't had success doing it this way. And, you know, I heard Doc this morning say, how can Monta Nicholson, after his offseason,

get rewarded and not have to play at all in this first preseason game? Are you that confident in Monta Nicholson? Yeah, there's a lot of young players that didn't play in the game, that there's no reason for them not to play. And any team can do whatever they want to do, but you're a team that hasn't been in the playoffs in the last couple years. And look, I get that that's the new trend. I do. But at the same time, I think there's a problem with giving you guys a couple series and trying to score. You got to feel so good if you're Cleveland watching Baker-Mayfield on that first drive,

go down the field, watching your young defense and Miles Garrett come off the ball for a couple snaps and just leave the game with a good feel from it. Now, obviously, you could have an injury. It would be catastrophic to have that in the first preseason game. Come on. Well, you could have that next week or in week three. I'm with you. You could have it in week one of the regular season.

Can I have it in the camp. I never wanted to play in the preseason, especially the first couple games. And I know it's not, I know it's not for real. But, Kev, you know, if you're a head coach or you're whatever, you're there, you tell your guys, look, this is exactly what we're going to do. We're going to play three series, and you're going to be done. Get yourself ready to play. Or we're going to play two series, and you're going to be done.

Not we'll see, we'll play into the first quarter. you never you never it's always a surprise like I don't know why it needs to be a surprise play three series you're done you play 15 plays you're done whatever it is so I got that's what I didn't particularly like and and I just look especially on offense now I know that they think their defense can be good and I know John Allen doesn't need to play trust me I know that but on offense you don't know you don't know what you're going to be you got a bunch of young receivers you have some questions at offensive line, especially on the left side. You don't know what you're going to be.

Why did Terry McLaurin play one snap? I've heard so many good things about him, and maybe that's an indication that they've seen enough of him, and he's ready to play. But I'd like to see him play. How can it hurt for him to get reps in that game last night? I think we talked about it earlier this week in saying a lot of these young players, you know,

you want to see what they can do with the ball in their hands. Do you want to see what they can do off script a little bit? Can I make a play? You know? And those are the things you find out when you get a couple games. And so I don't know. That's a weird thing, though. That Terry McLauron one snap thing is a weird thing.

And I think Jay was asked about it. And he said, well, he played, didn't he? No, he didn't play. He really did. 100% absolutely did not play. So that's not. That's not. He didn't play.

All right. I want to hear your evaluation of Dwayne Haskins last night. You and I were on the same page coming in before the draft, you know, not super high on him. This was the first chance to just see him as a pro quarterback in a preseason game. All of the, you know, all of the disclaimers are out there. It's preseason, starters are out. You're playing against twos and threes. No game planning, the whole thing. But what did you see?

Well, that first throw he made was a heck for a throw, wasn't it? on the run rolling right? Yep. To kiddie. I think the one that got fumbled was a great throw. That was a good throw. That was a tight window ball. I mean, that was the risky throw.

But here's what I saw. I mean, he threw two picks that were bad picks. I loved it. I loved it. I think it's great for him to make those mistakes. He needs it. I know that, you know, Daniel Jones came out and looked amazing. He could have made it real simple for him.

But he needs to make those mistakes now. He needs to get 15, 20 throws, 20 dropbacks in the next three games apiece and see things, you know? He's been playing against one defense and one defensive style for the last three months. Still same types of coverages and stuff, but Cleveland plays indifferent. And he did game plan for it and he didn't get ready for it. And I think it's something for him to look back on and say, okay, how do I fix this? How do I get better? So I thought it was good.

I think that we talked about this as well, the protection stuff. There's so much that goes into protecting the quarterback at the line of scrimmaging, including his calls and his checks and calls that the offensive line has to relay and make. They need to work on that. That's another thing that he's going to have to continue to work on. But to me, you know, I'm going to get overwhelmed with what he was in the first preseason game. I don't mind at all that he didn't have great success. He made some good throws, though.

Made some good throws, made some bad choices, and had a couple problems at the line of scrimmage, and that's something for him to spend a lot of time on this week thinking about and working on him. We haven't talked since the game ended. This is our first opportunity to talk. I just spent 10 minutes saying that I was impressed with his performance last night, you know, and maybe it's because my expectations aren't super high.

I will concede that point. here were the things that I thought were impressive. They're the things that Shanahan and other people have told me are things that you've got to have naturally, innately, because they're more difficult to coach. You can coach them, but eventually you're limited if you don't have it innately. I thought his presence in the pocket was very, very noticeable, that he's got good feel, he's got good vision,

he's got decent feet in the pocket. I thought he was very decisive on those two scrambles. They were two of my favorite plays of the game. I'll get to the mobility here in a moment. I also think he throws with anticipation. And Mike always said, you know, guys that throw with anticipation naturally, you got big upside with. Those that don't, you can coach it, but it's never going to be great.

I think he throws with anticipation. I also thought last night that, well, clearly he's got arm strength and he's big and he can see and all of that. I also thought, Cooley, last night, that the mobility, I watched, you know I watch a lot of college football. And I never said really that he was totally immobile. He played for Urban Meyer. I mean, they ran a lot of his own read and he could run.

But when he ran, he looked like a big dude. He ran like Rathlisberger. All right? Last night, maybe he's lost weight. Maybe he's in better shape. Maybe he's got lower body fat. Maybe he's increased his quickness or whatever. He actually, to me, showed some decent mobility for a big guy.

So I've been saying this, and I really watched every play that went out at Ohio State. I watched everything. He has some mobility, some good feel in the pocket. He doesn't have any shiftiness, but you don't need shiftyness as a quarterback. He make a quick decision when you have to leave the pocket and you get down field a few yards and he slides. And very capable of doing that. So I'm not – I think I've heard that a few times from a few people. get that a lot, especially later in the season at Ohio State last year. That's not uncommon.

But the way he scrambled at Ohio State, you're right, it wasn't uncommon that he scrambled or that he ran him. He kept the ball a lot on zone reads. But to me, it looked more like Rafflesberger running, and last night, it looked more like an athlete running. Yeah, I think there were times, especially early in the season, that he didn't look at athletic last year, but towards the later half of the season, he made some athletic scrambles that I was impressive. That's all I'm saying is I don't think that's a new thing. He's not incredibly fast. But here we think the other thing. And I say this all the time is five flat, five one, still pretty fast, man. It's not four four speed.

But, you know, I'll bet you I can't run a five five right now. Most guys on this random guys don't run under five five flat. Five flat is still pretty fast. You're not flowed, is what I'm saying. What could I run now? There's no way you run under a six flat, But you could peloton your butt off. I love that about it. Yeah, true. I mean, look, it's, again, all of the disclaimers. With that said, I turned the TV off last night, and I said, you know what,

I can't wait to see him next week. And I hope he gets quicker reps earlier in the game with starters against the Bengals and plays two more quarters on Thursday night against Cincinnati. We both know what Keenham and Colt are. I want him in there sooner rather than later. And I guess last night, even though it's the preseason, I took a step towards I really want to see him in a regular season game sooner rather than later. And I think he will be in a game sooner rather than later.

And I'm talking about the first four weeks of the season. I don't know. I told you they have to make a decision on whether it's Colter case. Because when you make that decision, and you got to start working your receivers with those guys. And Paul Richardson, and if Josh Toxon is going to be one of the guys that's got to play, and Clorin's got to play, and those guys haven't earned the right to not play in the preseason. They need to play all the way through the time that Duane plays

because he need to find out how Duane operates with his starting group. You love the young kids, and maybe Cam Sims plays a little bit this season, and maybe Robert Davis continues to play. He looks good. But I want to see them play with both quarterbacks. That's how they're going to build some confidence, especially young players. Young players really look back, especially in the first preseason, and those are the moments where they believe that they can make it in this league

or that they can have great success. So I want to see them with Duane. I think you have to do that. I know that coaches now are so sure of scheme and system and what they're doing and their ability to practice it and how they operate. practice, but games are different. And that's just what it is.

That game from last night, you don't have to take, like, you don't have to look at the whole game in its entirety. You can look up every. He's driving through the mountains of Pennsylvania right now, so we will let the phone clear. He's also down to his last couple of percentage points of juice on the phone. You there? We don't have them right now.

Yeah, we got you. You're back now. Go ahead. I'm at one. Okay. Yeah. So you find out. Coming up to Breezewood?

I'm getting pretty close to Breezewood. Yeah. I'm up. I got one percent left, so. Okay. You'll just, you know, die out figuratively on us. And maybe he just did. No, I'm here.

Okay. Well, go ahead. Just, what about Morland? You told me after the first OTA, Morland's going to start for this team. How good was he last night? He forced two fumbles. Yeah.

You know how big that is? And he's ball hawk when it's thrown at him and he'll have picks this year. That's something I'm sure of if Morland plays is he'll have some pick. I think he got challenged a lot more than he's used to getting challenged. Look at the guy at JMU last year that's the best corners in the FCS. They ain't going to challenge him. You're Delaware State. You're not going to challenge Jimmy Morland.

So he's got to get used to having a ball thrown at him a little bit more. He gave up three or four. But at the same time, he made two turnovers. You create two turnovers. You create a turnover in every game, and you're incredible. I like Jimmy, and he's tough, and he fights. Yeah, I liked him, too. Let me just mention a couple of names.

I like number 58, McKinsey. He got hurt at the end. I liked him last year. I talked to you about him last year. To me, he's pure speed off the edge. Is there a spot for him on this team and maybe even in the game when we get to the regular season? Yeah, I think there's a spot for Casanova. He's got an explosion to him.

Yes. And he's a hard worker and he's a great dude. And yeah, I think that there's a 100% spot. You know, you've got the first couple spots locked up, but you need four or five of those guys. You need four outside linebackers, if not five. I thought Settle looked totally different than last year. Like he is physically overpowering. Did you see the same thing?

Yeah, Settle's really transformed his body over the course of the last year, and is a very good player, and is going to be very underrated for this team because of Ionitis Allen and pain and the guys that they have in there. But Tim Settle is a very good player. They were fortunate to get him later in the draft. Did Trent, if this is about money, did Trent Williams make progress last night? No. I mean, I don't know how that rotation worked and why that rotation worked the way it did

with Jaron Christian playing the first series, but the way we kind of all looked at it in the booth was, you knew Case Keenham was going to play a couple series, and then you wanted Donald Penn and to protect your first-round draft pick. Oh, you think that's what it was? No one told me that, but... That would make sense. that would make sense is or maybe

if Jared Christian get looks against Miles Garrett, I don't know but Donald hasn't been here too long but I like Donald Penn and Wes Martin on that left side more than I like the first couple that they had in. That dude

Miles Garrett, not because of last night but because of what you saw in the second half of last year. He's a he's a contender for a future defensive MVP. Yeah, he's he's incredibly explosive. Oh, my God. See, that's just one of those guys for this team.

We got one of those guys. Hopefully in sweat. I think we do, too. That was the goal. Sweat is one of those explosive guys. Yep, I agree. But that changes things to have that guy. Yeah, and hopefully we'll see him next Thursday night.

I guess that's it. You're running out of juice, and you've covered just about everything. Oh, the one other thing that I wanted to ask you about, you know, the three series for Case Keenham, he looked uncomfortable to me. I'm sure it's because it was twos against ones. What did you see? Yeah, that he had a lot of pressure in the pocket

and did look a little bit uncomfortable in the pocket. They got behind the curve a little bit as well. You know, that first drive you had a decent scramble and get picked up the first down, but then you get a penalty and you're set back. And I think that makes it tough. And he also didn't have his starting receivers. Right.

You know, you didn't. Trey was the only guy that was really what you call a starter right now as he played with him. And they didn't run the ball. Well, that was another thing that I, well, that was one thing that I wasn't overly impressed with, was their back of ability to make any movement at the line of scrimmage around the football. They don't look good. I didn't think the backs look great throughout the night, and they didn't run the ball effectively.

That's something you can do in the preseason, though, because that's not that big of a game plan problem. Your run game has answers for schemes. It's not like the quarterback has to really see anything. I don't think they had any real success running the football. I thought 22 looked like a player, Reynolds. Yeah, he made a couple plays for sure. Reynolds looks like he's kind of got something to him. But, yeah, I mean, you'll see. You got Geis and Chris Thompson and Adrian Peterson who didn't play as well. Exactly. All right, drive safely. Thanks for doing this.

Talk to you soon. All right. Chris Cooley, everybody. If you're listening to this show on iTunes, rate us, review us. It helps. Also subscribe. Doesn't cost you anything. And you'll get this show downloaded automatically to your phone on a daily basis. The show is also available at the Kevin Sheehan Show.com for those that haven't heard it that want to listen and don't do it via their phone. All right, let's bring in John Kime, who of course covers the team for ESPN and ESPN.com, and he was there last night back in his home area. And, you know, one of the things that I think a lot of you know about John that, and it's one of the reasons I wanted him on today, is John's an Ohio State guy and watched every single Haskins game and every single Haskins. And that's where I want to start. I'll start by just telling you what I've said on the podcast and I just had a conversation

with Cooley as well. I was much more encouraged than discouraged for a number of reasons. I won't get into them in detail. I've already done that. Big picture takeaway from you on Haskins last night was what? I think it's a lot of what I expect and it's a lot of what we've seen. You see him make some throws. When he's right, you see the talent.

And it just comes out and it's like, oh, that's a big time play. That throw to Kijie down the left side against the cover two was really not many quarterbacks are going to make that play, you know? And so like you see that when he was right with his taking the, hitting the plant step, taking that hitch and getting out, good. His ability to get out of some pressure is what we, you know, as an Ohio State guy last year, he saw that toward the end of the year, his willingness to run more. And he's not a statue back there.

But he has to know more. to get better with the operational side. Some of those interceptions are just, they're bad throws. I mean, you know, and Jay Gruden said on the little wheel route, you've got to let the guy clear a little bit more. And it looked like to me he was trying to dump a, you know, just dump that perfect pass, but you can't make that if the linebacker is sitting there.

And the other one that's clearly a miscommunication or misdiagnosis of a play or a route or whatever. You know, handling the protection calls, the alerts, getting it to the line at a better chance to handle some of those alert calls. So you're not doing him last minute and causing some false starts or something like that. And so I think you saw the depth of his entire package. I mean, you know, the entire Dwayne Haskins experience him, but it's what we've seen.

It's why, for me, I say, there's a lot of talent there. You just have to let it develop at the proper pace. And so, you know, I think you saw a lot of that. I think you're right about everything you said. And I made the point, too, that I've never said that he was immobile. But when he ran last year, which he ran a lot. I mean, first of all, you're playing an Urban Myers system. You're in the shotgun.

You got a lot of zone read as part of the system. He kept it a number of times in that. But when he ran last year, to me, he ran more like Ben Rafflesberger. I saw a different mobility last night. I saw a guy that maybe has lost some weight, maybe added some quickness. I loved his pocket presence last night, his decisiveness on those two scrambles. But you watched every play of every Ohio State game. I went to one of their games and watched a lot of them.

And I saw a guy that was more athletic than the guy we saw most of the time last year. Most of the time, I think last year what happened with the runs was he wants to sit in the pocket. He wants to use his arm to make plays and let those guys make plays. So I think for him for a while it was a lack of decisiveness as to when to run and maybe a, I wouldn't say desire, because I don't want to say put that with him, but I think it's more of a, I want to throw the ball, you know, and like I think he started to see the benefits to him running. And I would say the Michigan game, for example, there are a couple plays where he was decisive, getting out of the pocket where I thought, okay, and he avoided, he gained nine yards,

but more importantly, avoided a 10-yard sack because he, because of, of that ability and the decisiveness to do that and not just seeing this, well, I'm going to make a play some way somehow with my arm. So, and, you know, I think I'd be interested to see because after the training and the off-season and all that, you know, could very well be, too, that with, you know, you lose a little bit of way or you get a little more quickness. Maybe there was some more of that, too, because you're seeing this last night at a different level of game speed as well.

And I think there was the one rush, which I thought was impressive where he got out of, which was I think there was a blitz and he kind of alluded to the left. And it almost hit Cam Sims for a touchdown. That one to me was really impressive. And I also say, Kevin, too, on his first play of the game, that bootleg, he gets outside of that pocket at the right at a good space or good pacing. And I liked on that play, whereas the decisive, you know, you see the open guy, you hit the open guy.

And the open guy, you know, high to low, he made the exact right decision on that one. And that was good. But that's where I thought, like, he has not. not, you know, again, he's not a statue. I think there was a, I don't know, belief, but because he's a pocket pass to that, where is that? I think it was better, and I thought it was good last night, and maybe because, again, you're going at different game speed, you could be right that. Maybe there was a different level of quickness attached to it. Yeah, I mean, his two scrambles up the middle didn't look like Ben Rathesberger scrambles. And when I watched him last year, you know,

it was Ben Rathesberger, it was Cardell Jones, you know, to use another Ohio State quarterback recently. And it wasn't that he couldn't do it. He wasn't Peyton Manning, you know, but I just thought last night it looked like a different level, an increased level of mobility and quickness. And I also just loved his feel on those two scrambles. Like he had the pocket presence feel, and he stepped up,

and he was decisive, and I like that. There were a couple plays against Michigan, and I'll be honest, I enjoy bringing up that game. But the reason why for him, there were a couple plays where he scrambled, that was a pretty good defensive line they had. They didn't sack him. And part of the reason they didn't sack him is because of his decision-making with that. And there was a play in particular, and this was a good one that when I did this big story

on him, and I talked about this play a little bit, but I also got this, I saw this from the Big Ten Network and Jerry DeNardo, former college coach, get down with him to watch film and going over some of that game. and there was a play where he said pre-snap, the look that Michigan showed was one that the Blitz who should have been coming hot over here on the left side. And instead, they sent a boundary corner from the other side on the Blitz. So it got him right away. But what he did is right away instead of sitting there, oh, I'm going to hold the ball and get rid of it,

he immediately took off and gained nine yards. And it's like that's when you started to see like this kid can do that. It's just a matter of, you know, how much do you want to do that. don't want to get caught up in doing that, but he can't do it. And that's when, like I said, so some of that stuff that I saw last night is what I started to see late in the year from him. And it carried over. But I do think, Kevin, to your point about the quickness, you're doing it at a different

game speed. And so you have to be quicker, you know, because we've seen guys in college who can run. And the Cardale, Cardale ran a couple of times in college. Wasn't going to run in the NFL because nobody's going to run away from or break away from. So, you know, I think that was, I agree with you. That was a good thing that he. I think you're right. And I think also, you know, last year when you've got Paris Campbell and you've got Terry McLaren and you've got KJ Hill and you've got some of the weapons that they had or, you know, some of the backs like Weber and Dobbins, et cetera, when you've got those guys, they're always open when you step up in the pocket.

Like if you've stepped up into the pocket and created a little bit more time, those guys are open. And that's not necessarily the case last night. so maybe we just saw a guy that, you know, had to make a quicker decision. And, you know, yeah, I mean, it was encouraging to me. I was really, I was happy to see it. I don't know that I expected to see it. I don't even know what it means because of, you know, all of the preseason game disclaimers. But there's some things there naturally that he has that are encouraging.

Absolutely. And I think, you know, I'll be curious to see how he dissolves with his footwork. and, you know, he does throw sometimes not always stepping into the throw. That's right. You know what I mean? And I think I'll be curious to how that goes. But again, this is what I've seen from him. This is what in practice is in training camp.

There are times where he's making throws and like, you're not going to get away with that in a game. And you know that. And you're bypassing, you're not seeing something over here and you're trying to fit it into this type window here that it's not an NFL throw. It's not an NFL decision. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's one that's going to result in bad stuff.

So how does you progress with that? And that's what we saw some of that last night. So, yeah, I think there's stuff, it's the stuff that I've been seeing. And it's the stuff that you can build off of this. And, you know, you can't – the other thing, too, is, like, he likes to be aggressive. I think the key for him will be being aggressive and being smart, but he's willing to take a shot.

He's willing to do that. I think you can get paid off. We saw a payoff of Baker Mayfield on the other end. But yeah, those runs can serve his checkdowns for him, too. And you're right. Going back to the Ohio State stuff, there are times in camp where he's a little bit, where he's late on things. And you'll hear Jay say, yell it out, you're late, you're late, you're late.

And the difference here is that last year you could be a little bit late because you knew that one of those guys is going to break free. And it's going to be a touchdown if they do. And here it's going to be a sack or a pick. I do think, though, he throws with anticipation, and you and I both have had many conversations with Shanahan, and he emphasizes the importance of that to have it naturally. And I think he does. And by the way, you know, I was thinking, as we were talking about, you know, the Ohio State stuff

and the Michigan game was just a phenomenal game. But, you know, you sort of honed in on one of the flaws that we saw last night that you also saw last year, and that is sometimes the inconsistent footwork leads to a ball that's inaccurate. It's sales. And do you remember, like the Penn State game, they were in those first three quarters. I looked at this, I don't know, two months ago, so I may be a little bit off on the numbers, but they were like three for 18 on third down.

And a lot of his throws were high and missed because of bad footwork. Same thing against Michigan State. They were like four for 18 on third down, and a lot of the balls sailed. And so we saw some of that last night. But that's coachable. Like that he can improve on. It is coachable. Absolutely.

And part of that, too, what they want to do with that is get him to increase, like, the ability to read pre-snap. Because the sooner you can do that. That's right. Because what they want to do is give yourself time to get your feet around to match your eyes. That's what they want to get to. And I think, you know, and then it's like, well, can you live with, can you, you, you're going to lessen some of those inaccurate throws. Can you live where it gets to when he makes those? Because the other thing, and he understood.

Here's the key to the, he understands that. And I talk to him about this in this thing that throws you guy away with in college. You can't do in the NFL. You broke up there, but I think we got the gist of what you said there at the end. If I have you, you know, clearly now, I'm going to ask one more question and then let you run. Overall, do you think that this is just the way Jay treats this first game in the preseason, and really the preseason in general with respect to starters.

What are we going to see next week? Are we going to see the guys that are going to be on the field against the Eagles for significant numbers of plays? Or next week we're just going to get a series or two? I think it'll just be a series or two because the trend has been, as you know in this league, the trend is to get away from that. But you're going to have to get some guys some action. But like Morgan Moses coming off and Brandon Shepard,

are both coming off some things from last year, they're okay. They know the offense. They're okay. Jordan Reed knows the offense. Chris Thompson knows the offense. And I think, I think, if everybody's going to cross their fingers when those guys are out there,

then you're not going to put them out there a ton right now because they know what they're doing. Then it's a matter of, where are you at with the quarterbacks? And there's so much with that offense that's like, man, they just need some work together. And they're splitting up all these reps, makes it hard. But that's why they should use the reps available in these extra long preseason games,

because there are a lot of plays in these games. They should use these games to get everybody the reps. Yeah, well, and this is where, like, not practicing with somebody hurts them. And I know there's different opinions on some of those practices. I've always thought they're beneficial. I think coaches think they are. So, yeah, I mean, I think this is where, and again, for Haskins, it's where it's going to be vitally important because he can now build on things and you get that tape.

And he's a guy who will go over his tape and work really hard with that. But I think that'll be good for him. So I'd get him as many reps as I can because he needs that sort of experience. And, you know, because he gets less reps and practice than those other two. Right. You know, not always a ton less, but definitely less. So, yeah, I don't know that he's going to change all that much. And I think the last, you know, the last couple years, I think, have scarred a lot of people there with these injuries.

You know, but, you know, you're, but he even said, like he said last week in practice, we were talking to him about some guys that being hurt. He goes, hey, we were seven and nine. Guys got to be out there. So that's the attitude for practice. But I think in preseason games, it's more like, okay, well, let's make sure we get to the next game. John, thanks for jumping on.

I know you're busy today. Follow him, of course, at John underscore Kime, and he does all his work on ESPN and ESPN. com as the Redskins reporter, the Redskinned Nation reporter, always does a great job, and I'm glad to have you on the podcast. I'll talk to you soon. Appreciate it as always. Thanks, Kevin. All right. Thanks to John Kahn for coming on. That was helpful. Always like talking to John, and John's a big Ohio State fan and watched a lot of Haskins. And it sounds to me, I mean, he did. He sort of agreed with me that he looked more mobile and more athletically mobile than he did last year. And there could be a number of reasons for that.

Last thing before we run today, this is a huge series for the Nats this weekend in New York against the Mets. And the pitching matchups obviously will not include Scherzer. But you got Strasbourg against Strowman tonight. First time the Nats have ever faced Stroman. You've got Corbin and Sindegard on Saturday night. And then Sunday afternoon, Sanchez and DeGrom. This is a big, you know, early now approaching mid-August series.

The Mets have won 13 of 14. and the Nats now are on a roll having won three in a row. And by the way, last night, great night for the Nats without even playing because the Braves and the Phillies lost. So the Nats are now five and a half behind Atlanta and two and a half clear of Philadelphia and New York. This will be a big series for the Mets too. I would think that MET fans are going nuts right now

and they are jacked up about this series this weekend. Anyway, looking forward to that. Be back Monday. enjoy the weekend, everybody.