The Kevin Sheehan Show - Reuben Foster and Karma? Ryen Russillo Too

Episode Date: May 22, 2019

Kevin opened with some Redskins' OTA news and thoughts on Barry Svrluga's column on Reuben Foster's injury being "karma". Kevin talked about Antonio Brown's absence from Oakland's OTAs and then had Ryen Russillo on the show to talk NBA Playoffs and more. Then, Kevin brought on a friend, Howie Kra, to talk about THC and CBD. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, please call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com and tell them that I told you to call. You've got nothing to lose. They'll be out the next day for a free in-home estimate, an estimate that's good for a year. So give them a call at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. and again, tell them that I mentioned that you call. Ryan Rosillo will be on the show today. We'll talk NBA playoffs with Ryan, who does a big-time national podcast. As many of you know, he was Scott's radio partner for several years on ESPN Radio. I like Ryan a lot. He really knows the NBA.

He will join us a little bit later on in the program. Monti Nicholson showed up for OTAs yesterday. I'm glad about that. I'm glad that he showed up after missing that first day. I am a Monta Nicholson fan as a player. I don't know him personally. I don't know what kind of person or teammate he is. I know that the coaches believe in his talent.

I've had conversations about that over the years. Going back to 2017, I remember that first training camp, he was, there was just something different about him, his range, his speed, his anticipation, his closing speed. I think he's got terrific talent. I hope it works out for him here. I do. I don't know. My hopes are not necessarily based on an understanding of his current relationship with coaches on this staff, but they have a need at free safety, and he's talented. I hope it works out for him. I hope he gets a chance to become a good player, and I hope that it's here.

Vernon Davis was at OTAs yesterday. Alex Smith is apparently at OTAs. I got that wrong yesterday. So that's a good thing. And I would imagine for both Dwayne Haskins and Case Keenham to have a guy like Alex who knows the system and was also new to it just a year ago, I would imagine that he can only help. While on the subject of OTAs, there was another, you know, big to do about another player missing OTAs, not in Washington, but Antonio Brown in Oakland. that goes, you know, sort of hand in hand, right? They're comparable situations with Odell Beckham Jr. in Cleveland, who also didn't show up for the Brown's first set of OTAs, after, by the way, claiming that the Browns are going to become the Patriots of the NFL. But I was watching Marcus Spears this morning on the Greenberg show,

get up in the morning, get up or whatever it is, get it. Get it up? No, I don't know what it's called. Get it up. but it is called GetUp. That's the title of the show. It's actually not as terrible as it once was. They've reduced it, I think, to two hours, and he's just got a rotating table. I'll tell you what, seriously, I think once they got Michelle Beatle and Jalen off as the two constants on that show and they did a revolving sort of guest thing, I think it's gotten better. Anyway, I'm not a massive Mike Greenberg fan at all. I never really listened to Mike and Mike, even when it was hard. on this station that I worked on and worked at. But I was listening and watching this morning. It was on in the background, and they were talking about the Antonio Brown situation.

First of all, they were reading the John, or they had John Gruden's quotes, and basically Gruden was blowing it off. He's like, he's not here today. Hopefully we'll see him here in the next couple days, but he's working hard, learning our offense, and I'm excited to get him out here. But in the meantime, he said,

we've got plenty of balls to throw and plenty of receivers to throw two. And that was John Gruden's quote. By the way, Freddie Kitchens, the new head coach in Cleveland, said the other day, I've never disputed the fact that it's not important for O'Dell Beckham to be here, but it is also important for him to be mentally ready to be here, closed quote. But anyway, Marcus Spears was another in the long list of former players who, when the subject from media people and fans come up about, well, he's a team leader or he's new to

the team. He should be at OTAs. They always say, not a big deal. Other NFL players, you know, I mean, most NFL players I talk to say all the time, they don't think it's that big of a deal. And I personally don't get it, but I readily, readily admit that I don't know that world from inside the locker room, and I could be wrong. We could all be wrong. Those of you that that think the way I do, and many of you don't. I just don't understand a couple of things about OTAs, all right? If missing them isn't a big deal at all, why does anybody go? Why do they have them?

What would happen if 30 players, instead of 8 or 9, on average, you know, for the Redskins anyway, decided not to go? You know, they're voluntary, they're not mandatory, and all of a sudden you basically have, you know, a shell of a group out there running around in shorts. You know, players, if 30 to 40 of the players said, I'm getting paid either way, I'm not going, what if that actually were to happen? But more importantly, why hasn't it happened?

The reason it hasn't happened is that the significant majority of players actually show up for these because they realize that maybe they're not super productive in terms of what you accomplish on the field. maybe they're not super important to the product that gets put on the field next year, but they seem to be important to somebody, the coaches perhaps. And like most of us, if the boss says, hey, we're having an early meeting tomorrow morning. All right, before the workday starts, bagels, coffee, juice, just want to share some ideas on the business.

I want to tell you about some new things that are going on in the industry. If you can't make it, it's not a major deal, but if you can, I'd really appreciate it. Now, if your boss said that to you, are you getting up early to get to that meeting, or are you just going to blow it off? To be honest, Aaron, this is personal perspective. I understand that. And I know everybody doesn't think the same way, but I personally think the way you answer that question is very likely a glimpse into the type of employee you are, the kind of a work ethic you have, the kind of teammate you are. Most of you know when I use the following expression what it means.

That guy just gets it. That woman, she just gets it. Most of you know what I mean when I say that. You know who gets it in this very room? Aaron gets it. He's young. He's hungry to work, to earn more. He knows innately how to get more opportunities

to work more and earn more, he gets it. It's why he's working with me. This podcast is very much a startup type atmosphere. I've been in three or four of them long before I got into broadcasting. You don't have a chance to succeed in businesses like that if you've got people that would blow off that early morning voluntary meeting. Many times I've asked Aaron to do something that wasn't, you know, something that we had talked about much. something that we didn't necessarily have an answer to. And you know what his answer is every single time? Yeah, we can do that.

We'll figure it out. He's the guy who just figures it out, shows up every day, cares about what we're doing, he gets it. Most of you, not all of you, but most of you know what I'm talking about and the kind of person I'm talking about. The guy that blows off that voluntary meeting in a normal work circumstance doesn't get it.

In my view anyway. And furthermore, by the way, if you're a new employee in that company, you just got hired a week ago, and you don't show up for that voluntary meeting, you really don't get it. That's my view. Not every one of you shares that view, I'm sure. Not everybody is wired the same way. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's my view that you better show up for that meeting, especially if you're new.

But back to the NFL OTA discussion. if the significant majority of players show up for them, what does it say about those that don't? Especially if you're a new player to a new team like Antonio Brown is or Odell Beckham Jr. is. Coaches and teammates can blow it off, especially when they're talking about a star player that doesn't show up. They can say, hey, it's not a big deal. We know what Antonio Brown can do. We know he'll be here when it matters.

But when you trade for a player and you give him, a huge contract extension, even if OTAs are totally worthless to a player like Antonio Brown. My view is that it's a professional courtesy for him to show up. It's actually more than that. John Gruden basically traded for him, gave him the big time contract extension, he said he wanted him, he praised him, he said what a great player, what a hard worker, what a great teammate he would be, in addition to it being a professional courtesy, it would be a personal courtesy to Gruden for Antonio Brown to show up. But my guess is that Antonio Brown doesn't get it. He's one of those people that doesn't get it. And you know what? Sometimes a lot of the super talented people are the ones that

actually don't get it, but often get away with it because they're so super talented. The next CBA could change all of this. Like either make them mandatory, or eliminate them altogether. You know, take this conversation. It's an annual conversation. It's not just here, by the way. Okay? It was on get up this morning.

Why isn't Antonio Brown at OTAs? John Gruden, part of his answer yesterday was, I'm sure you guys are going to make a big deal out of this. Well, yeah, I mean, because a lot of us, not everybody, a lot of us understand that more times than not, voluntary is still, if your boss, it's important to your boss, it's really mandatory. But again, the NFL could be completely different, and it is completely different. It's a different work environment.

I understand that. But you know what? In Beckham's, now, Antonio Brown wanted to go to Oakland. He wanted to be traded there. He wanted to play for Gruden. Gruden, you know, praised him and said, what a great teammate, great worker. I just think, from Antonio Brown's standpoint, if he were a guy, that really got it, he would show up as both a professional and personal courtesy to the organization

and to John Gruden. Who cares if it's worthless for him to show up? Who cares, if you could even make this case, that it would be better off for him not to show up for his personal training or his personal adaptation to the new offense? That's hard to believe, right? Like if he's there in an NFL facility, that there's some benefit that there's some benefit. That's the same benefit. That's that's going to come from him being there. Maybe it's a benefit that would be applied to the rest of the locker room. Hey, if Antonio Brown's here, I should be here. I don't know.

What do you think of Tom Brady skipping, though? He skipped last year. I think he skipped this year as well. You know what? I think when you've been to, what is it now, eight Super Bowls and one five, and you're 43 years old or 42 years old, I think you're then given the benefit of the doubt, that people who haven't accomplished anywhere near that aren't given.

But I guess the question would be, you know, if Belichick doesn't care about that and they're the model organization and they let their stars, you know, it was, does Brady, Grong always skipped it? And a lot of stars end up skipping it there. Maybe you get to the point when you're the Patriots and you've won so much that the culture of winning and the culture of doing the right thing is so overwhelming that, you know, in mid-May, you can cut a couple of corners. Maybe. I don't know.

I'm just telling you that I think the reaction to it is based on what I just described. For those of us that believe that there could be some benefit to a team leader or a new player to an organization to showing up. By the way, did you see the AB tweet about Ben Rothelisberger's apologies? Two-faced. Two-faced. I am predicting two things next year for the Raiders. one is that Antonio Brown plays great, really produces at a high level. And then the second would be that the Raiders don't make the playoffs.

Well, that's a pretty safe bet on the second one. That's probably a safe bet. But there's improvement, but he's not the person that puts him over the top and turns him into a playoff team. I wanted to read a quick tweet that I got yesterday because I wanted to respond to a couple of things, including Barry's Verluga's column of yesterday, which I did not read until the show was over yesterday.

And Barry was going to be on with us today, but he's actually feeling under the weather. We'll have him on at another time. But Joe on Twitter said, tweeted me, the past couple of days you've been, you've 100% been overreacting to these Landon Collins comments. Come on, man. We know it's just for PR.

It's literally nothing to get worked up over. And also, who cares if he has Giants, games circled. Shouldn't that be expected? You know, if you've missed it, Landon Collins has been doing a ton of interviews where he has predicted Super Bowls, plural, in Washington. And he's talked about how the Giants, you know, screwed up by not drafting Haskins and that they were wrong to let him go and OBJ go. And he's really thrilled to be in this organization. And he's got six years worth of Giants games circled on his calendar. And I just, It's not that I'm...

Look, if these things come up, I'm going to talk about them because we have a history now with this organization over a long period of time of players new and existing year in and year out, telling us during the months of March through August about how they're going to kick everybody's ass. And then we end up getting to playoff time in January, and they're not in it, ever. So I am, you know, and I beat this dead horse over.

over and over again, I understand that, but I am a show me, don't tell me. That's what I want. I want this organization to start to produce on the field during the regular season and the postseason, on Sundays, Mondays, and Thursdays, and I want them to show me and stop telling me. I don't need to be told anymore how much ass they're going to kick during the regular season in May. And it happens all the time. That's not an overreaction. That's just a typical reaction now for me and has been for many years because they haven't shown me. They haven't shown any of you. They haven't shown us anything for a long period of time. I wanted to quickly talk about Barry's Verluga's column, which got a lot of attention actually yesterday. I didn't read it until we were done with the show yesterday. But he wrote a

story in the post about the Ruben Foster injury, which by the way, it's been confirmed. It is a torn ACL. And once they are able to operate on it after the swelling goes down, according to the reporting, and I think Les Carpenter in the Post reported this this morning, that they will, they're worried about nerve damage, but they won't know until the surgery whether or not there is any nerve damage. But the bottom line is he's done for 2019. So no Rubin Foster in 2019. Barry's first column first paragraph

excuse me of his column yesterday read as follows when Ruben Foster writhed on the ground then punched it with his left fist the easy and inevitable thought was this karma

karma left Foster there furious and frustrated and it looks as if he's lost for the season with a torn left ACL karma bit the Washington Redskins, and they deserve every ounce of it. Hire a guy the rest of the league wouldn't touch because he had just been arrested following a domestic violence incident.

Before you reasonably could know the specifics of the incident, before you could be sure the charge would be dropped, and well, you reap what you sow. That was the opening paragraph to Barry's column. So I went to Barry's, Twitter and read the responses to him tweeting out the column. And they were primarily negative. You know, they really ripped Barry for karma.

Why is it karma if the charges were dropped? You, you sir, have no class, absolutely none. End of this story. Lazy cherry picking, as usual, no doubt. A lot of memes and different things, and a lot of very ugly responses. Overwhelmingly, I think, more negative responses, at least on Twitter, which, by the way,

is typically what you get on Twitter. You tend to get the angry and the unimpressed that weigh in on anything you do on Twitter versus the positive. But beyond that, I read the column, and I didn't feel the same way. Because, first of all, let me just say this. and I would have said this to Barry had he been on the show today. Props to Barry for writing exactly what he thought when he got injured.

I'm sure he thought about it. I'm sure he understood perhaps what some of the reaction would be, but he wrote it anyway. So for me, that is huge props for being fearless and honest. It's the only thing that consistently works in this business when you're in the opinion business. that to me was fearless and honest. So I personally respect that.

Because I think sometimes a lot of people, when it comes to this team, aren't fearless and honest. And I can tell you that in what I do, and I think in what Barry does, if you're not really honest and you don't care about the criticism you're going to take for being honest,

it's just not going to work. You know, you can go watch, you know, the Larry Michael show on Comcast or NBC Sports Washington, if you don't want a real, honest, and fearless reaction to the things. And Barry was just reacting the way he reacted. So anyway, I thought karma was interesting because, and I thought the response was interesting. Because, and I texted Barry this.

And then, again, wanted to have him on the show, but he wasn't feeling well this morning. but I promise you, promise you, that for those that have actually followed this story in the detail, Barry was not alone in that reaction. Facts are facts. Charges have been dropped on the two domestic violence-related charges against Rubin Foster. But listen closely to all of you who think that this guy has been falsely accused at every turn

and all of the smoke around him is someone else is doing. I'm going to go through this quickly, or as quickly as I can, but Barry was not alone in his reaction. He was not alone in his reaction. I had other people, actually a couple of sports people that you know that we've had on this show a lot, that texted me the exact same thing, because they followed this story in detail.

If you thought it was mean-spirited, if you thought it was unfair, well, you haven't really followed the facts or you just didn't want Barry to be honest in the way he felt. That's your prerogative to feel that way I feel differently. But the facts are these, okay, about Ruben Foster. He got kicked out of the Indy Combine. The Indy Combine in 2017 for getting into a heated argument with a medical examination nurse. at the Combine, a setting which is, for all intents and purposes, a job interview for him. He also failed a drug test at the Combine, and then in January of 2018, he got arrested in Alabama for possession of marijuana. In February of 2018, he got arrested on suspicion of domestic violence,

threats, and assault weapon possession charges. That happened in Northern California. In April of 2018, he was charged with felony counts of multiple domestic violence. violence, possession of a weapon, and infliction of bodily harm. That's quite inactive early 2018. Now, the domestic violence charges were dropped when the accuser, his girlfriend at the time, recanted her allegations. She testified under oath that she had fabricated the story as a money scheme. But just so everybody is clear, prosecutors didn't totally believe her when she recanted that story and they considered continuing to proceed with the charges which they can do even without the accuser's help. Tom Leverro called the DA's office in Northern California and had a

conversation with them and they were very open with them and they told him two things. One, nobody from the Redskins ever made a call to find out anything about the incident and two, they didn't believe her when she recanted her story. Now, he got suspended by the league, if you recall, last year for the first two games of the season in San Francisco, but that was for violating the league's personal conduct policy, but it was specific to the marijuana and weapons charges. Then came the November of last year incident in Tampa when he was arrested again on domestic violence charges with the same girlfriend. The 49ers had had enough. They had enough of them, and they cut him. And the Redskins talked about Foster with one or two of their own players who played with them at Alabama.

I believe Ryan Anderson was one. Sean Dionne Hamilton may have been the other. Remember John Allen and Duran Payne said they weren't asked about it. And I think they probably asked the players that knew them best that were in the position room with them, and those would have been the linebackers. They never did any serious investigation. They never called Northern California. We know they never reached out to the attorney for the girlfriend or the girlfriend herself. they talked to a couple of their own players and they went for it.

They were just dumb enough to think that there would be competition for him off waivers and they jumped first. They jumped in first. We know that nobody else in the league put in a claim. And several NFL execs off the record said they couldn't believe that in the Me Too era, especially considering the sensitivity to the issue in the NFL, then any team would do that that quickly without letting the legal circumstances. system determine the validity to the charges. I said it then, I'll say it now. Presumption of guilt and

innocence had nothing to do with the way I felt at the time. It was the decision in that environment to sign him that quickly. And then, furthermore, for Bruce and Dan to hide behind Doug Williams, I thought that that was cowardly after they did it. I wish they'd come out and owned it. That would have been my suggestion to them. Own it. We did this, he won't play for us if the charges are true and if they come through. And he may not even play for us if the charges are dropped. But we need to win. He's a player we liked in the 2017 draft. We're signing him. We don't care what kind of PR hit we're going to take. We understand it. We are not condoning domestic violence at all. And he'll never play for us if these charges are

true. But we talked to a couple of his buddies who play for us. And we thought it was worth taking the chance because we need to win goddamn football games. I wish they had handled it that way. I would have appreciated that more. I still think they would have been criticized, but they were going to be criticized either way. I'd like to see him not hide behind Doug Williams. Those November charges were eventually dropped too.

And then furthermore, the league didn't impose an additional suspension on Rubin Foster. So the Redskins felt internally a few weeks ago when the league decided not to suspend him further, that the risk they took had paid off, at least in the form of him being eligible to play right away. They loved him in the 2016 draft. This is a guy that had a very difficult upbringing and childhood. But those things aside, facts are facts. And the facts are that he's been in trouble or he's been accused and charged with things that reasonable minds can at the very least conclude that while she's,

She may not be an angel either is he. So therefore, that's why Barry and others, I guarantee you, had the reaction they had. And to me, it's not unjustified to have that reaction. And I don't think it's necessarily mean-spirited. It's just honest. It's the way they felt. Anyway, it's too bad that we're not going to get a chance to see him play, because after all of that, going back to November, he's eligible and he's really talented.

And unfortunately, we're not going to get a chance to see him play. Anyway, what else did I have here for the open of this show? I want to get to the NBA, which will do so shortly. But the Nats lost again last night in New York. Eric Fetty started the game and pitched well Aaron last night and then of course gets pulled in a game that's very tight. I think it was a 1-1 game at the time. And I understand that there's going to be a sort of an innings limit

that they're not going to want people to see him for a third time in terms of the batting order. But he pitched pretty well last night, had it going through five, had allowed one earned run on four hits, and then they put in, you know, Swero, who immediately gives up two hits and three earned runs. And just like that, they're down four to three on a three-run shot. They came back, took the lead, and then gave up the lead, and then lost it on an infield single,

RBI single by Rosario and the ninth. So here they are on a three-game losing streak, 10 games below 500. Nine games out, because the Phillies blew a lead against the Cubs last night in the ninth and lost. but you we were talking about this before the show started and I said that you know they've got two more with the Mets here and then they've got the Marlins for four straight going into Memorial Day and day and that could be the savior that could save Dave Martinez although I don't personally think he's in that much trouble I could be wrong I was with the two of them at Tommy's event last week I really think they chalk most of this up management anyway to not being completely healthy. Obviously, there's a bullpen issue that's not necessarily his issue. But the Marlins, you got two more with the Mets and then four with the Marlins at home, that could save him if they were to win three or four against the worst team in baseball by far. Absolutely. It could. It's why, you know, I've been talking to some of my friends of

other people who are kind of looking at that Thursday day game and wondering if that might be the spot just because if you are thinking about firing him. You do it before the Miami series. Before the Marlin series. Honestly, it's what, you know, you go back to, you look at, you know, in season hirings in any, or firings in any sport. You know, Steve Alford got fired right before a really easy stretch for UCLA because they wanted the interim coach to be able to have easy.

And they didn't want him to go through that winning stretch so they would have a harder time firing him. I agree with you, though, the longer this goes, the more it seems like they're going to let him play out this season. But it then begs the question, if you're letting him play out. this season and they end up 78 and 84, what happens next year? You're just blaming it on the roster and the injuries and you letting him come back? It's sort of interesting that, I mean, it's not the exact, it's not an exact comparison because this is just Dave Martinez's second

year and we're going into Jay Gruden, year six. But, you know, you, you, it's this, you have to, as an owner or a team president and or general manager, be able to, beyond the injuries. You have to have a sense of whether or not this is the right person. Can this guy actually do it when we are healthy? Or have I learned enough through injured times and periodic healthy times what this guy is? You know, like I think I've learned what Jay Gruden is through five years. He's an average coach. You know, there are a lot that are worse, and there are certainly many, many that are better. He's not a strict disciplinarian. He's sort of a players coach. He's go along to get along. There are things that he does well,

and there are some things that he does very poorly. But he's, you know, the results are subpar, like they are with Dave Martinez, but you also have this issue of, you know, they've been a very injured team. The Nats have been. And the Redskins have really been for two straight years among the most injured teams in the NFL. It's hard, but you've got to be able to see through all that. You know, this is year two you've spent with this guy. You've got a sense as to whether or not he's the right guy. So if they hang on to him, they can use the injuries, but they shouldn't understand sort of intuitively.

No, no, no. The injuries are why we are getting the results we're getting. This is the right guy. Like, if we're healthy, this is definitely the guy that we want to grow this thing with. And I don't know, there's still an opportunity. You know, I think it's the worst division in baseball. I was looking at this yesterday in terms of aggregate wins and losses. I think it's the worst division in all of baseball.

Philadelphia is the worst of the division leaders, you know, with a 583 win percentage. You know, the next worst is still a team that's over 600 win percentage, and that would be the Cubs. You know, so it's still a division where you can make a run. Like, if they were in the National League West right now, they would be 13, let's see, 13, 12, they'd be 12 and a half games behind the Dodgers. If the Phillies had a 32 and 17 record, they'd be 12 and a half out. They're only nine out. And they get the Marlins for four straight, and they sell the Mets for two more.

And these Mets have been winnable games, the first two. And by the way, you get Scherzer-Strasbourg back-to-back. If there's ever a time for your two starting, pitchers, you know, aces, if you want to call Strasbourg, that I would call him that, because he's actually been as good as anybody's been, to really turn things around. You get two wins here against the Mets on the road, and then you get a chance with Miami at home for four to cut into this lead, to get back, you know, to within three, four, five games of 500, I guess the best they could do is four games if they were to run six in a row, right? That would be 25, 29, four games under 500,

and get them back into it. Sherser and Strasbourg, two big starts. Although I just looked this up as we were sitting here. Do you know Miami's one four in a row? I mean, Miami's, well, they swept the Mets before the Mets came here. They swept the Mets and they just beat the Tigers. I mean, that's one of the other reasons why these two games are so alarming is the Mets were about free falling as much as the Nats.

I know. They had a chance. Look, in all of their losses here recently, they've had a chance. You know, the two games in the U.S. York. The Kendrick got him close in the 7th on Sunday against the Cubs. Even that game last Friday night that Scher started that got away late when they, I think they scored like, you know, eight or nine runs in the eighth and ninth inning. But it was a close game going into the eighth inning, like a winnable game going into the eighth inning. I think it was either tied or

they were down or run on Friday night to the Cubs. All right, quick word about window nation. All right. You're firing up that grill because it's summer. time and window nation's ready to kick off summer with a sizzling savings right now buy one get one free it's window nation's absolute best offer it's back but only until may 301st buy one window get a second free with no limit by two get two free by four get four free again no limit plus you'll get zero percent interest for five full years and there's even more to this smoking hot deal If you call today, you'll get a free in-home quote, and you'll get a pair of tickets to Hershey Park while supplies last. Hershey Park, if the kids are young, that's actually a great day trip.

We took the kids to Hershey Park when they were young. It is, of all those theme parks, Aaron, it is the cleanest, the nicest, and it's a great day trip. Get up early, go there, take the kids, and you can get those a pair of tickets to Heron. Hershey Park if you get a free in-home quote while supplies last from Wind Donation. By the way, on that free in-home quote, Wind Donation comes out to your home within 24 hours. They'll do it seven days a week and they'll provide you with exact pricing, not just an estimate. It's backed up by Wind Donation's A-plus Better Business Bureau rating. You're guaranteed the best value or they'll pay you $250.

But you have to act fast. When Donation's sizzling savings ends May 31st. Call today, buy one window, get one free, there is no limit. Plus, get 0% interest for five years and bonus tickets to Hershey Park. Call today 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com and tell them that I told you to call. We're going to be joined by Ryan Rosillo here in a moment. But there was a game last night, an NBA playoff game last night. And Toronto evened up the series, two games apiece.

And I liked Milwaukee last night. I personally played them last night, Aaron, and they were the wrong side. side. I think right now what I love about this particular series is the way that Toronto has sort of adjusted to Milwaukee. If you recall in Game 7, I'm rooting for Toronto. I've said that before. I'm rooting for Kauai Leonard. I'm rooting for the Raptors to get to the NBA finals. After game seven, I said to you, I like Milwaukee in 5 because Toronto's not getting enough support for Kauai Leonard. That game seven was all Kauai Leonard. I mean, there were guys that were passing up wide open shots in that seventh and deciding game against Philadelphia's Seacum was and Lowry was,

and maybe they'll do it again in a seventh and deciding game against Milwaukee if they get there. But last night, what you saw was you saw, first of all, a Kauai Leonard who's hampered, all right? He is not 100%. After playing 52 minutes the other night in that overtime game, he's not a double overtime game. He's not 100%. But what you saw last night was brilliance by Kauai Leonard. You saw a guy drawing the defense constantly.

Doing it with the dribble primarily, which I think is a little bit dicey sometimes with Kauai. If you watch him right now when he's handling the ball in traffic, they are not only double teaming, Kauai. They are shading with a third player. He's nearly

triple teamed. He's drawing those triple teams with the dribble, trying to get to a certain spot where he knows he can make one pass that will lead to another pass and a wide open shot. He last night was the creator. He created incredible opportunities for his teammates. And last night, what I loved about Toronto is all of them stepped up. All of them stepped up. Last night, you had Kyle Lowry go off, especially early. He went for 25 on 6 of 11 shooting 3 for 7 from behind the line. And by the way, was aggressive on some of those passes after Kauai drew the defense to drive and get

foul. He was 10 for 10 from the free throw line. Gassal continues to be a massive problem in these playoffs for the opponents. You cannot leave him open off the doubles on Kauai. You can't because he will knock down that three. He made 3 of 6 last night. He had 17. But what about Norman Powell?

over these last two games. Last night, 18 points, five rebounds, three assists, knocking down every opportunity, and in game three, 19 off the bench. In the last two games, he is seven of 18 from behind the arc. Huge threes, huge threat off the Kauai double and triple teams. How about Serge Abaka last night? Surge is a, you know what, think about that Oklahoma City team. Do you ever think about Durant, Hardin, Westbrook, and DaBaka, all on the same team. They did get to the NBA finals, and they lost to Miami, and they were very close to going to the finals again if Kevin Durant doesn't go 10 for 31 in the deciding game. Actually, it was game six when they had a chance to close him out at home and didn't do it. Sir Jabaca, clutch player, last night, seven for 12 from the

field. 17 points, 13 rebounds last night in 24 minutes. Fred Van Vleet last night stepped up after going one for 11 from behind the arc in the previous game, three for three last night, 13 points, six assists off the bench. And a lot of those assists are hockey assists, all right, are coming off hockey assists. They are Kauai Leonard drawing the defense. to him and then making one pass that leads to another and an open shot. I have no idea if Toronto can win in Milwaukee. Kauai looks compromised right now. He had, by the way, last night, 19 points, four steals.

He's guarding Janus. Now, they're switching a lot, but a lot of the time he's on Janus. Chris Middleton got off last night for them, and if you're Milwaukee, you have to feel good about that, but they lost a game. They got blown out. They got blown out 120 to 102. So you get game five. in a 2-2 Eastern Conference Finals in Milwaukee on Thursday night.

All right, let's bring in Ryan Rissillo, who is doing podcasts, plural, for ESPN, on his own for the Bill Simmons Podcast Network. And you can follow Ryan on Twitter at Ryan Rosillo. That's R-Y-E-N, Ryan A-R-U-S-S-I-L-O, and you can get his podcasts in all the ways that you can get all podcasts. iTunes, etc. Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Spotify, all of them. But I wanted you on because I wanted to talk NBA. Everybody remembers Ryan, of course, is Scott's radio partner on ESPN radio for several years. And I've always enjoyed talking NBA with you. And I do think, by the way, am I wrong that this is your number one thing, NBA? No, no, you're right. It's that. I mean, I think the college football thing for me was just as incredible experience because I got to travel so much for it and being from the North east and being all over the south and seeing what it's all about,

was something that was kind of eye-opening. But yeah, I'm an NBA guy number one. You know, that college football thing is so much fun. And I remember, I'm pretty sure, right? I went to the LSU Alabama game down in Baton Rouge a few years ago, and we were down there together for that, to me, Saturdays for me, are just as good, if not better, than Sundays, especially given that my team, the Redskins have been so, you know,

average to subpar for so long. I just, I love those big venues for those big games on Saturdays. But anyway, I'm calling you to talk NBA, and I want to start with, you know, Milwaukee, Toronto. The Bucks open this series as a prohibitive favorite. And after last night, I went to check on one of my sites, and they were still a very sizable favorite, even though the series is tied up at two games apiece. What kind of chance do you give the Raptors? I give them a good chance, and I'll give you kind of the origin of this when we were doing our final picks.

before the season started. I said Golden State, Toronto. And I did it because I think I warned it just not to be another guy saying Boston, Golden State. So I don't deserve a ton of credit for this, but I think I stuck with understanding. Like, I think they're a really good team. So when the Bucks beat them in game one with the comeback and then roll them, I mean what the Bucs did in the first half of game two,

I was like sitting in a hotel room because I was in Chicago for the Combine going, man, like, am I totally off on this? Like, thinking Toronto's a good team? Because I think if Toronto had played their guys end-to-end through most of the season, they'd arguably be the number one seat in the east. So I felt like with Milwaukee's disbandling of a really dysfunctional screwed up Boston team

and how they looked at the first two, I was still kind of surprised how dismissive everyone was of Toronto, including Vegas, and at least Toronto, can we see them go home first? Can we check these guys out at home before we totally write them off and start trying to figure out if the Bucks should be Golden State, but that's how it felt.

And so for them to get the close one, and then just not show up at all in game four, like this thing seems to be going in the wrong direction for the Bucks. And the best thing for Toronto was that in the games they've won with Kauai being Superman, he's still watching to go, this doesn't look sustainable. Right. And he didn't really have much going on last night, and Lowry was incredible, the bench was incredible. This has been an entire bent series from Milwaukee outscorn Toronto big time,

and that totally swung the other way. Abacca's minutes with Casol off were terrific and got that thing going. So I guess my short answer to the long one I just gave you is that I'm not surprised that Toronto's made this competitive. I've always felt like maybe they were a better team that people wanted to give them credit for. You know, it's funny because after game seven, the word you used is it sustainable. After the seventh in deciding game against Philadelphia, I picked Toronto before the playoffs, started to get to the finals. I love their team for some of the same reasons that you loved it.

Once they got Kauai, one of my theories is you have to have a top five player to win a title, and now they have a top five player. But after that seventh and deciding game, I'm like, there's no way that they can play this way. Where, by the way, in that seventh and deciding game, I actually thought there was some choking involved with Siakum and Lowry passing on open shots off of what Leonard was creating, and yet he carried them. through and you did see what we saw last night gives them a chance over these final two if they can get another night from surge like last night or Van Vlead who was finally knocking

down shots. That was fun to watch. I'm rooting for them and I tend to agree with you. But on Kauai Leonard, I'm just curious as to where you are with him. Right now, where would you rank him in terms of the best players in the game? I think Garant was on his run before he got to. her where it was a bit of a reminder again that you know what like this guy's probably the best because I still think what he does is the most unstoppable and he's not what Kauai is defensively

but Durant is pretty important defensively to what Golden State does and to put his size on guys like Hardin and be able to switch on smaller players it's actually been pretty good but Kauai we all know what Kauai's rep is so I think he's right there with

Durant and maybe even Yonis so there's certain nights at Yonis where because of the not shooting, you wonder, okay, well, how is it going to look? Like, that's what happened in the game four. All the perimeter guys miss everything. The defense collapses, and now Yonis is looking at a wall of people. And, you know, I can't just dribble through everybody every single possession. I expect that it's going to work, even though with Yonis feels like it is.

So I always kind of feel like it's tiers. I'm not saying Kauai's the best player in the world, but he's in the tier with the best players. I don't think he's not a second tier superstar here. And depending on where you want to put LeBron still, and Steph, who I've never really had outside that first year, despite, you know, a playoff flip where it felt like every TV show wanted to destroy them. You know, Harden, I still think it's kind of close.

I wouldn't have Westbrook in there. So whatever the five or six are, and it feels like it's really deep now, like it's a really fun conversation to figure out that top five, top ten players in league, because we haven't even mentioned Yokic or Embed or Willard and those kinds of guys. But yeah, Anthony Davis, who let's just think a year ago,

after what they did to the Trailblazers, it was kind of like, you know what, I think Anthony Davis is the best player in the NBA. And the way he played before everything went south in New Orleans, his numbers were insane. So, yeah, Kawhi is in that group. He's somebody who could win an MVP at some point. And if he had played a full season in Toronto,

and it wasn't this hard and historic offensive season or Janus, you know, essentially to superstardom, I think Kauai could have been somebody that you could have voted that. But, you know, he was going to miss a lot of time. I don't think it was because of an injury with San Antonio. That part of the Kauai story bumps me out a little bit. but, you know, one point that I don't want to get away from that you just brought up, that's the part of Toronto where it does scary sometimes,

because you're so right about Game 7 against Philadelphia, because Lowry was like, nope, I'm not comfortable, and Seyakum, who's been a gunner, and has been this great story of somebody who's this nice little role guy, wait a minute, do they have a really established second score here? And the playoffs are different, and game sevens are even more different, and both of those guys, you nailed it. Both, I don't want to look at box scores,

I don't want to hear how efficient anybody was. When it's like, yeah, I'm not really comfortable. Get it back to Kauai. And Kauai's trying to take it on three guys and taking 40 shots in the game. That's because his teammates didn't feel comfortable. So that's something that's still in the back of my mind that scares me, where it's Toronto's secondary guys, how comfortable are they going to be? And then we know Milwaukee, and the next three,

can they have two nights where the spacing is better and the shooting is better, is if they have great nights where everybody's taking shots like Kahnitin and Brooke Lopez from outside, then it becomes impossible to guard yon. I mean, it's kind of a simple series that way. It's just a matter of, you know, is Milwaukee going to have two more terrible shooting nights where Toronto can pull it off. Yeah, I mean, it's like in the middle of a series, like last night,

Kauai, you know, draws all the attention, and they make a pass and then another pass, and everybody's comfortable firing it up. Will it be the same in a seventh and deciding game? This one, which would be on the road against a better team than Philadelphia. To the other series here for a moment, I think it's been made pretty clear that the Warriors don't need Kevin Durant to win a title. They've done it before, and they may be on the verge of doing it again. But the question here over the last 10 days, I guess, or whatever it is, is this, are they a better team without him? No, they're not better, but Steph just gets to be a better version of Steph.

I think about different stars in this league. Like, I've had my issues with Westbrook because I think they're well documented. This is somebody who's not adjusted to anyone around him who, when times get really tough, he thinks that just force is the only way to solve the problem. Yeah. You know, just force. And I'm going to, I'm going to wheel my way. Like, when people talk about, like, square peg, round hole, he would sit there and whittle the peg until it fits. And it might fit, but there's an easier way to do that.

And he'll die, it'll die trying, too. Right. His hands will be bleeding and you'll respect the effort. Exactly. You're not giving up. This guy's not giving up. But we know this about him. He's incredibly inefficient for somebody who uses the ball as much as he does. I mean, his usage rate to be that inefficient is really bad.

And I think the triple doubles and the excitement covers up some of that. And we're looking at, I'm not going to say three straight first round exits, which it is, because three years ago, you're like, that team wasn't very good. but he's lost to teams that we thought they were better then, and that's in the first round of last year. So the reason I bring that up is because he doesn't understand the game the way Steph does, and where Steph goes, yeah, I could take this shot again like I did three years ago, or I could push this a little bit more,

or I can kind of dribble us into one side of the half court setup here and throw it to that, set-in-quote, one guy, Duran, knowing that he's probably going to get a better look and has a better chance of finishing it. rim. So he has almost curbed his own abilities in a way where, like, this run without Durant has reminded us what it looked like before he got there. And it is more fun. And I wasn't anti-Durant going there, but I'm pro-Durant leaving. And I still don't think, even with this run, I can't believe they won five straight like this, I still think it's ridiculous to say that they're a better team without him. I just

Steph is better, and I think it looks more fun, but to say, I mean, ask anybody else coming out of the east. I mean, granted, it's like two teams left, but like, would you rather Durant be back or would you rather him be out? No one's going to say, oh, I'd rather him come back. So, yeah, I think both can be true. Yeah, I was just going to say both can be true that they are better with him, but it can also be said that they can keep winning without him. They can keep winning titles without him. Yeah. It doesn't, look, we both know how the job works.

It's really excited to come on and say I actually think they're better, you know, without Kevin. Like, that's crazy. So it's become this thing. Like, I love Steph. Okay, I always pick up for Steph. I'm annoying about it. And there's a building, just a bunch of different reasons. I'm not going to go overall in here.

But I like what I see. And I'm also feeling that they're a little extra motivated to kind of prove what they are or what they were. But I'm never going to be dumb enough basketball. wise. I just think that all of a sudden, like with the Durant, if we could do this, if we could simulate it, do you think Durant with the Warriors beats a non-Durant Warriors team in seven games? Like, I would think so. Well, that's one, that's an interesting way to look at it. I had Jimmy Patso, so I don't know if you know who Jimmy is. Jimmy was Maryland. Yeah. Are you kidding? Yeah, of course. So, you saw him where in Chicago?

Yeah, Chicago. But I mean, he's just that guy now since I've met him through Van Pelt. Right. Okay, that's right, of course. at beach and then you see him. Exactly. So Jimmy was on yesterday, and he's down in Puerto Rico with a bunch of college basketball coaches. And he basically told me yesterday that a lot of the conversation's been about the Warriors. And from a college basketball coach's perspective, watching the Warriors without Durant, it looks like much better basketball.

It looks like much better team basketball. More of the way, obviously, a college team plays the game, more five-man offenses, more than just, you know, ISO or two-man pick and roll or pick and pop. And he said, I goes, I'm not going to name these coaches, but they think that the Warriors are just better. But anyway, it is, it's a debate, and I tend to agree with you in the way you just put it, would the Warriors with Durant beat the Warriors without Durant? That's really the way to look at it, because the Warriors without Durant probably would have won at least one of the two that they won with Durant and have a chance to win another one this year without him. By the way, on Curry, because you're a big fan

and I am as well. How will his career eventually be described as compared with the all-time greats? I don't know why he'd be out of that conversation. I mean, I don't know if he's going to end up being a top 10 guy. Some of the shooting numbers, and I'm sure this drives you crazy because we're close enough in age that, you know, a newer wave of people that cover basketball or talk basketball, we'll try to point out three-point productivity compared to like the great players that we grew up with. And you go, okay, well, part of this is totally absurd because it just, it just wasn't used. So when somebody says like, oh, Larry Bird, great shooter, huh? Look at his three-point numbers. You're like, yeah, but you don't get it. Like, they just,

the NBA was slow and adapting to this thing. So it just raw production versus, like, every three-point record is broken every single year now. I mean, it's just, it's just the way it's going. It's like college quarterback stats. You can't say that this is the best quarterback play we've ever seen strictly based on yardage numbers and just evolution of the way the game is played, too. So you've got to factor all these things in. But if you're looking at somebody who's impacted the game in a way that very few have, I don't know that that list is very long.

I mean, there are five people in NBA history that have changed the way the game has actually played on the floor. I mean, that first year seven, I remember going, is this real? Exactly. Like is this, I wasn't wondering it was going to be a fluke. Like, hey, remember that year when he just started pulling up

from like 30 something deep and it went in all the time? Like, that can't be repeated. And not only has it been repeated, it's changed around the league. I also think there's been a negative influence where I watch guys where I go, I can't believe you just took that three.

You just took that three. You weren't even ready. You weren't even looking at the hoop. You didn't even catch it that claim. And because Steph does all of those things and it still goes in all the time. Like other guys around. the league. Other adult men want to play like Steph while they're playing in this league with him.

So his conversation, I don't know what the final numbers will be. The ring totally is going to be past a lot of these guys. There's going to be so many detractors that say that the last two are not his as much, which is BS, or he doesn't have an NBA final MVP, which is ridiculous because he was the MVP in 2015, but everybody fell in love with the story of Andrea Godala shutting down LeBron when, you know, that's not really what happened. So I think there's always, we know how this is. With every single player, anyone at this level, there's just the army for the person and the army against the other,

bug against them, and they're just never, ever going to concede anything. And they'll only use the bad games as evidence that Steph is somehow overrated and not that good. And people were already starting to do it a couple weeks ago until he just went on his tear. So ego, I would all I just call them what, the second best point guard ever? I mean, there's an argument.

He's a top five shooting guard ever, too. who puts that position to change. So I'd like to think he'll be in that top 20 group when it's all said and done and maybe even higher, but it's hard to find as many players, whether we're talking Kareem, Dr. Keng, Magic, you know, Jordan. And then I'm not saying he's those guys right now, but what he did to this game is he turned it upside down in a way a few others ever have. You mentioned when he first started to, you know, shoot some of the shots that he shot, and I'll never forget there was a playoff game. It may have been the first year there in the postseason against the Spurs.

The game was on the road, and he's putting up bombs, and he's dribbling through people and creating space. And I remember at the time thinking, I mean, some of the bombs were, you know, from 30 feet, you know, plus. I think the average length I remember was like 31.5 feet on his made threes. And I just remember thinking to myself, these are shots that people back in the day would have to heave. like Chuck. And this guy just shoots inside the half court line a normal jump shot. Like the evolution, you talk about it, but there's just this ability to be able to shoot from much beyond the three point line. It's one of the reasons that the Warriors have been so successful. It's not just making threes.

It's the depth which opens up the floor and creates the incredible spacing. So if somebody runs at Steph at 30 feet, all of a sudden he's behind him with a completely open floor. But one of the things in describing Curry, I totally agree with you. And I hope that eventually people, when his career is over, realize that this is my view anyway, I think we have witnessed the greatest

combined shooter and ball handler in one body in NBA history. Like the only guy in my lifetime that I could compare him to, but he wasn't the shooter step, was although he was a good shooter and became a great shooter, is Isaiah. Like,

Isaiah had that magical ball handling ability to go with the ability to shoot it and to score, but not at Steph's level. Isaiah is one of the most underrated players of all time, and I don't know if it was his unique ability with Detroit while he played, or if somehow the executive run has tarnished the player run, and he was done really early. Simmons was just talking about the other day, because you're talking about aging small players,

how they don't really age that well, because we're talking about like Lillard's contract, right? But it was just another reminder of like when Isaiah was going, and it wasn't like he had some awesome second score with him the way teams are built today. And he just went through everybody. Isaiah reminds me a little like Kyrie. Like I think Kyrie has the best handle maybe I've ever seen,

but when Steph was first coming up, it was Steph, Hart, Karee, like those felt like, okay, it's just a different level with their ball handling. And you can pair that with his shooting. And that's why, you know, despite Hart's numbers, part of me always wants to be. think, what if Steph just decided for a month, I'm going to get 40 a game? Does anyone think he couldn't do that? Like, of course he could do it. And his efficiency to take those shots.

And sometimes just the way we look at, you know, I always, people laugh or some people get it, but I think skateboarding is a great thing to look at for an analogy with basketball. Because somehow every former basketball player thinks that despite humans getting bigger, faster, stronger all the time. I don't know what max capacity is here for all of us, but that somehow basketball players are the only things going in the opposite direction. And it's just so dumb. I'm not saying that this Warriors team would beat every single great team, but if you did the time machine thing, can you imagine a 90s basketball team seeing these guys come down the court, pull up 30 plus feet? Like, they'd be looking for the wall. We have to guard all the way out there on pick and roll. Like, I have to show five feet

front of the three points. I can't go underneath the screen at 38 feet. I got to fight over top of it on this guy. Are you crazy? For everybody that's like, oh, you get fouled. People want to act like the 90s hard fouls. Like all of a sudden, Steph would just retire at half time. You know, be like, you know what?

That was a really hard foul by Lambert. I've quit the game. I give up. The spacing alone would prevent a lot of the lanes from even being clogged that way. thing that you can go up and you can test up. But when I, you remember growing up, teams had like one guy that kind of hit shots. Right.

There was one guy that was the outside. Then there might be some guard from Delaware that would come off. And he would be like, oh, he's our assassin. He's our slice of maybe take too long shots. Freddie, downtown Freddie Brown. Right. Exactly. So it's just the way the teams are constructed this way.

And the way this stuff has evolved, and I guess the skateboarding thing that I've always thought of is that I think Steph and this generation of players started taking shots never were supposed to take because they were all considered terrible. And you're right, they've evolved into an actual jump shot and like something that still resembles somebody's form from 15 feet. And it was because somebody eventually had to try to do this. And he was the guy that did it, much like the first guy that decided to do a 360. And then you go, well, eventually some guys are going to do with 720. And it's like, well, no, that doesn't, you know, we can only do three 60s right now. You're like, no, no, no, eventually someone is going to figure out and push it and try it, and then that's going to become the norm. And that's what's happened in basketball with this team.

And it's really happening so many other sports. The older basketball players, you don't want to just live in the middle of that. You know, one quick thing, and I won't waste time on this because I've got a couple of other things I want to get to and then let you run. And I appreciate the time, by the way. on NBA TV, I don't know, three months ago, they had the 1962 NBA finals, the actual ABC broadcast of the game. It was Celtics, Lakers, Game 7, and I'm sitting there watching that. I came in the next day on this podcast, and I said that DeMatho would have beaten the Lakers on that day. That Jerry West, for all that's been said about Jerry West, he wasn't even that good of a ball handler.

He was so slow. You know, when you see film versus the actual broadcast of the game in full speed, it's totally different. But the way the athlete has evolved, the game has evolved. I mean, if you threw, I mean, you threw the Warriors back into the 90s. If you threw the Warriors, if you threw DeMatha into the NBA's early 60s, I'm telling you, it would be a game. It would literally be a close game. and I'm not sure that Dematha wouldn't win. I'm sure most people think I'm nuts and most people did.

But if you watch that, it was jaw-dropping at how exposed the ball was from a ball handler's standpoint because they just didn't guard very well. Like they weren't up on a ball handler. Like they were off. And so, you know, West could, it looked to me like he couldn't even go left consistently that well, that you could have taken. taking the ball from him over and over again. But whatever. I digress.

No, let's stay on this. Let's stay on this. Please. I know. I'm sorry. I know you should you want to move on. That's all right. Because that's how I feel sometimes. I haven't seen the math of play, so I can't speak to that. I think Bill Russell would probably have a – I just have a hard time believing that Bill Russell is going to lose to a high school team, even if we had these time machines available.

but sometimes when I do that I go okay but this we can only go by like what they had or what they were at that time so it's not entirely fair to dismiss all of it either but when they start to do when Oscar Robertson comes on Mike and Mike with me and we asked him like what would you guys do with Steph back in the day like Steph would have 12 a game because we'd pick him up full court and we were like what it's like that's not true like you know I know and then like I kind of got into it with him a little bit and then like I kind of got into it with him a little bit and then And Oscar Robertson, later on, like a few weeks later, kind of indirectly said I was a clown on a Cavs broadcast, but wouldn't take up my name. And then he refused to do an interview with the afterwards. I just went, hey, I'm sorry. Like, I'm not the Hall of Famer you are, so I'm going to get killed here. But that's a ludicrous statement that, like, Steph would only get 12 a game in the 60s and 70s. It just is. And to solve it is by just picking up full court.

And then we'd ask him, like, have you ever seen anybody shoot like Steph? He didn't want to hear it anymore. Like he was bad, and then he games with two guardies played with no one ever heard of. Now, Jerry West will tell you, because I've asked him, he goes, if you called carrying and traveling, the way they would have called it against us. Right. But that neutralizes a lot of this stuff, and that's true. Like, Janus, for as great as he is, the dude carries the ball like a running back.

Oh, yeah. That's true. That's true. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, and by the way, because I was going to say, and by the way, because I don't want to forget this point. There were two players in that game that I said would have been difficult for Dematha to deal with,

and that was Elgin Baylor and Bill Russell. Like, they were the two that stood out as, okay. But it's like everybody else just seemed compared to what we watch today to be moving in slow motion with not, you know, great skill necessarily. Like we know the athleticism different, but there's a massive skill difference as well, in my view. I mean, I could be completely wrong.

No, I think you're, the Russell one is tough for me to get past because I might just be too much of a, you know, I'm not really the Celtics home where everybody makes me out to be, but I'm such a huge Bill Russell guy. And when it ever, like I've had the chance to talk to him twice, and there's probably two of my favorite interviews ever. And when you do the thing of like, hey, how would you do with Shaq now? just Russell goes, how do he deal with me? He's like, I would have run his ass into the ground the whole time.

Right. But we also could probably look at Bill Russell as being, trying to think of like, he might be Jeremy Grant size in today's game. Right. So then you go, all right, well, how unfair is it? I just, I try not to beat up on all the older guys, although they give us a ton of ammunition to do so, especially when I hear that Steph would have 12 games.

Well, that's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. Not only would he have more than 12 I mean, he'd have 12 in the first three minutes of the game if he wanted to have 12 in the first three minutes of the game. It's different, by the way, just not to drag this out further because there are other things I want to get to, but do you know late in games back in the early 60s,

and I'm watching this, and I didn't know this, that when you got fouled and it was in the penalty situation, you went to the free throw line for one free throw. One, yeah. One. So it's like, wait a minute, didn't anybody figure out that there was a massive benefit to foul in that situation? Even if you're winning the game, like they can only get one on this possession, they can't get two. Like it was crazy.

Anyway, back to the Warriors for a moment. First of all, do you think they're going to win it? Regardless, I mean, if it's Toronto or Milwaukee, do they beat Milwaukee? Do they beat Toronto? It's different because, you know, there's some size, like you could look at Toronto and say, well, maybe the, be using Gassol, but the way they use Gassol in that offense, like everybody always wants to do this thing with the

Warriors where it's like, well, if they have to go up against a traditional center, that's why the Cousins injury, I was like, yeah, it doesn't really mean anything. It just doesn't. It didn't for me at least, and it hasn't so far. But the way Gassol plays in their offense, I mean, maybe they switch is positioning around and I think Abaka's been a better fit

than this Milwaukee series. So you could kind of look at that. They're going to need somebody, because Iguodala always feels like he's breaking down at this time of year, it gets going to be tough to figure out how they would, you know, it would be a team defensive approach here. But Clay probably has a better chance against Kauai off of Iguodala. If they did Iguodala Clay combo against Kauai, I don't know if you get away with Clay against

Janus. So then is it Draymond and some Igua, and then, you know, what happens with the other big? Maybe they keep looming out there. The problem is the guards. Both back courts, like we're sitting here worried about, like, if you're, I'm doing this out loud like I am right now, just kind of think about it on paper. And like, how would they deal with this guy? Okay, but then once you start going, okay, wait a minute, they also have to guard Clay and Steph

with who? Bledsoe and Brogden. Lowry and I guess Norman Powell would get more minutes than Van Lee. They split up that. I mean, it's such a dispatch in the back court that it might be one of those deals that let Kauai to take 40. Let Yonis take 30 points. Just make sure we stay out on the shoes.

and, you know, we don't make this a layup line for Janus, will be all right, because the back court thing is so heavily in favor of Golden State that I'm not going to say they're going to roll through them like they did Portland, because there's an argument that, you know, was Portland even the top four team in the West? Well, technically they were, but I still just love, I love that this energy from Golden State reminds me. I think there's a real happiness from this group because of all the KD stuff they've had to put up with all year that when,

I'm dragging out these answers but when KD went down in game five we saw a completely different energized Decis and engaged stuff at the end of that they want that one and then I'm in New York we're doing Get Up and everybody in the media even the Vegas number it was all on Houston all on Houston all on Houston

Jaylon Rose and Tim Legler as small players came on and were like everybody's off on this because these dudes are going to be so fired up now to prove a point without Durant like do not write this team off the way everybody's writing them off And the ex-players, you know, I don't always be like, hey, you're the ex-player, I'm always supposed

for real. I don't believe that. But this one, the ex-players were totally right about. I thought Milwaukee going into the postseason wouldn't win it this year because in our lifetimes, the NBA champions always had to go through a year or two or more of coming up short before winning it, with the exception of magic, really. It just seems like almost everybody else. especially the teams with, you know, superstar players, like there was this necessity of going through the process of coming up short and getting that experience. But they, they, I know Boston was dysfunctional. You know, their first two games of this particular series were impressive.

They won 60 this year. They dominated people. Is there something you've seen that would tell you that they don't have, that they don't have to go through that experience to win it. I grew up with that same thinking that, okay, you have to do it. And the other thing, though, is more of these guys end up losing. Daryl Morey once had the great line. It's one successful business by the standards that we go by and 29 failures, but you

would never say that. There are multiple communication companies that can have great years. have success years. It's not the one that was the best investment or whatever. Like that's not the only one that was successful, but that's the way we look at basketball. So then by

connection to that, it ends up being that there's all these guys that have all these playoff failures before they ultimately get their one. But it's clearly true with Detroit and Boston and then Chicago and Detroit. And you can say that for LeBron a little bit, although that was kind of moving.

I don't think it's impossible. I really don't. Because the East was new. Everything at the top of the East this year was new. Yeah, true. Kareen and Gordon Hayward back with Boston. That was still a new thing for them. Kauai, and the reason the transition for Toronto's been so

easy is it's basically the same thing, better system, improved from Seacum, a better Abaka this year, but you changed your number one option, who's a good player to Rosen, to a great, a special player in Kauai. So it wasn't like it was this completely overhauled roster where you had to figure out how three

six guys are going to play together. the Milwaukee thing is new because of a much better system where they're running, and then Philadelphia was due because they added two other guys. So there was a newness factor at the top of the east, and if they get Golden State, then they get him. But whoever was coming out of the east this year, it didn't feel like it was going to have to be, oh, Toronto took their lumps. Like Toronto, the organization did, but not this team.

Not this coach. Yeah. So the traditional thing that you're bringing up, that I do agree with, but I don't think it's a prerequisite, and the way the story's played out this year on the East. This is kind of the point with that. All right, let me rip through a few things real quickly with you and get some quick answers.

Where does Durant end up next year? Either New York team, the Chicago Combine, no one. I mean, no one. And this is what scares me a little bit of everybody's repeating, just everything else that's what he else is saying, but nobody thinks he's going back to the Old State. I know this Clippers thing is coming up here late. I don't know if that's misdirection,

but it was a Nix, but don't sleep on Brooklyn. So my bet today would be in New York. Where does Kauai end up next year? I'll just say, you know, Clippers. I don't read, like, those of us that have paid attention to this Kauai thing, it was really strange last year. It was like, okay, I'm just shutting this thing down. And the Kauai Apologists say, I didn't just diagnosed it.

I don't know, man. There was some stuff going on there. He just didn't want to be there anymore. and I would imagine if you just, I think he just bought a $15 million place in Southern California. A lot of times you can just follow the real estate. I don't know if you would do that if you were staying in Toronto. I don't think there's any result. I think Kauai's type of guy is probably already made up his mind.

So people playing out Kauai's future based on every final score after all of these games, I don't think he's emotionally that unstable, that he's changing his mind after every win and loss. Where does Anthony Davis end up next year? I'll say the Knicks, because I think they have the best package for it. I would love to see him play with Zion, but his group of clutch sports has said this changes nothing. The Lakers package, it's easy for people to be dismissive of it, but it's just not as good as other team's potential trade packages.

And the reason I'm going to say no to Boston is that even if they keep Kyrie there, I don't know that they're going to want it. They would have done a Davis trade if Kyrie stays, but if Kyrie's not staying and I have no lead on Kyrie, then I don't think they can do a Davis trade after Kyrie leaves or asked us on his to do what he used. So I'll see. Just assume the following for this question,

that John Wall can't physically be John Wall anymore whenever he gets back. So, you know, assuming that he can't transform his game into something that doesn't rely on speed and athleticism, and the Wizards aren't going to have the John Wall that they had. Would you try to build a team around Bradley Beale? Beal really impressed me this year. Beal's been somebody who I loved at college. I thought it was laughable when Michael Kidd Gilchrist went ahead of him.

I thought, like, that was one of the worst evaluations. Because I'm big of them in the draft, and I'm not saying I'm some future GM, but I just went. I cannot believe. that somebody would see this differently. And then I felt like Beal didn't really hit the level that I thought. Like I had really, really high hope for him, and now I'm starting to find to see it. I get a little worried when it's just tail at the end of the season, when everything in the NBA is a little weird.

But I think he has the right mentality for it. He's incredibly young. He seems to be the adult in the room with this wizard's situation that doesn't always seem that great. At times, I've thought to be one of the most delusional basketball teams I've ever. Well, yeah, I mean, you and Scott used to do that Wizards thing with Andre Blotch. Yeah, that was a different era. Yeah, it was. This group with, like, when Marquip was there, and some of the stuff, Wall would say,

and I'm not one of these national guys that, like, hates John Wall. I feel bad because I feel like two years ago, he was actually in the conversation with a top ten player in the week. Right, me too. He really was really good. I'm not saying he's perfect, but he was really good for that stretch. And it's like, you know, this dude's pretty nasty. And now with this injury and just everything's going to be in this holding pattern because of that contract, I've thought at times, like, is there even a way to, like,

offer a deal to get off a wall's money and just reset the decks all together? That's probably impossible. I don't know another team that would be that desperate to go ahead and do that. And then it's like, do you really want to give up a deal. So, yes, I would try to get some of these. Like when they signed Dwight Howard, I go, are they trying to make it worse? Like, this team, when they look in the mirror, it would be like me looking in the mirror and seeing DeCaprio. Like, they just, they don't ever seem to get it.

And I think Beal at least has the right attitude for it. So I would, it's hard to get players in this league. I would just try to, you know, suck it up with that wall deal and make Beal the guy. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. I always love catching up with you. We didn't even touch on the Lakers and how effed up that situation is, but we can do that somewhere down the road.

But listen to Ryan's podcast. He does one for ESPN. He does one for Bill Simmons's network. And you can find them all the way you find all podcasts on iTunes, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, Stitcher, tune in, all of them. Listen to him. He's as good as anybody on the NBA. Good catching up.

I appreciate it. Talk to you soon. Hey man, thanks a lot for having me on. It's always good talking. And you've been a really supportive guy over the year. So I appreciate that. Great catching up with Ryan Rusillo. He knows his NBA. He really does. And that show that he did with Scott was really the best iteration of that radio show. I thought they were really good together. And Ryan's been a friend ever since I met him through Scott. So I appreciate him getting up early on the West Coast to do this with us.

today. Quick word about launch workplaces. If you live in the Bethesda Chevy Chase Upper Northwest D.C. area and you don't want a long commute and it's too hard to get work done from home or your current office situation. You've got to change to something new. Check out the new launch workplaces in Bethesda. They've got flexible and affordable private office solutions so you can get work done. It's a beautiful new space with fully furnished offices, conference rooms, co-working desks, high-speed internet, complimentary drinks, cafe, and free parking and plenty of it. 24-7 access as well. Get more work done today by moving your office to launch workplaces in Bethesda.

Call today for an exclusive free two-day trial. Somebody was in here the other day, by the way, who was trying it for two days. You can get that free two-day trial by mentioning my name when you call 24-80-6714, 240, 800, 6714, or go to launchworkplaces.com. They've got locations elsewhere around town, and you can find all of those at launchworkplaces.com. All right, let's finish up the show today with a friend of mine who was on the show because he had stopped in here into the studio a few weeks ago,

and we sat there and we talked about the hottest IPO of the day, if not the year, the Beyond Meat IPO. By the way, what about Uber's IPO since we last thought? You know, that was a gigantic disappointment. I mean, once again, Wall Street overpriced, overpressed, and a lot of people got hurt in that transaction. Now, I'm not saying long term, it can't work out, but when is Wall Street going to stop taking advantage of the little guy?

They priced 180 million shares at $45, knowing it was overvalued, and they opened it at $42. That means they handed out almost a half a billion dollars in short-term temporary losses if somebody sold. Now, that stock could go to 100, Kevin, but why do you price something that hurts people immediately? and they do it again and again and again. It's not fair. It fell significantly on, I mean, it was one of the worst IPOs in recent memory. It was also a terrible, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was a terrible market day too on that particular day.

The market itself was down significantly. But I want to make sure people understand what you say. When a deal gets priced, when a company goes public and the deal gets priced by the street, It's the price that you can buy it as a normal investor at the open. It was priced at $45. And what you're saying is they knew it was overvalued at $45, which meant it was going to fall. And so the people that were all excited about the big Uber IPO,

they're going to have to hold on to it for a while to make money. They weren't going to make money that first day. But as you know, insiders probably made a ton of money. Kevin, a couple of things you said there. The market being down that day had absolutely nothing to do with the performance that day. Because the day I came into your office, I listened to us talking again beyond me went public in a bad tape that day. Okay. It didn't matter.

They had it. They priced it right. They had the right amount of orders. They had more buyers for the aftermarket. Uber was, they lose $3 billion, Kevin. So I'm not saying it's not a great company, but the bank is new that day that they didn't have the right order book. Beyond Meat was 50 times oversubscribed. I don't think that Uber, by the time they priced it after the road show, even had a full subscription.

So therefore, instead of the shares going to the elite institutional accounts, they give it to retail. And the little guy gets caught holding the bag. And at the same time, Kevin, the insiders and everybody else who invested when the stock was, you know, a dollar or a billion dollar valuation or three. But at the end of the day, Wall Street priced it aggressively. And for the short term, people got hurt, really hurt. All right. We're talking with Howie Craw. Howie's been a friend of mine for, if you can believe this now, for 20 years.

Actually, more than 20 years. Yeah, I think 25. Coming up on 25 years. Howie worked on Wall Street forever. And he's now an entrepreneur, but he's involved in a lot of different things, living down in Florida. He's one of the best motivational speakers slash salesman I've ever met in my life. By the way, he's got a website where it's really focused on resiliency in particular.

It's how we doing it, all right? H-O-W-I-E-D-O-I-N-I-T dot com. I urge you, especially if you're looking for some motivation and looking for some uplift in your life, go to the site. I do want to talk to you about one thing specifically, because you could sit here and you could tell everybody and talk to everybody and get everybody fired up and get everybody through the stress in their lives and the anxiety in their lives

with a lot of things. But one of the things that's been a major topic for a lot of us in almost every age group here recently is you know the consistent growing legalization of marijuana and the benefits of marijuana. You're intimately involved in some of that stuff

as well. I haven't smoked weeds since, I don't know, shortly after college, it's been a long time. And for whatever reason, I just haven't had the access to it. I know a lot of my friends have, and I've been in places, you know, even at my age where people smoke, but for whatever reason, over the last 25 or so years, I just haven't been that interested in it. But I've been more interested in it recently, because I've had good friends of mine who have also not smoked, who have said, oh my God, I've been struggling with sleeping.

And guess what works? Marijuana works. I've been, you know, I've had this going on in my life. Guess what works? Marijuana works. Tell me the benefits and why I should consider CBD or the full-fledged marijuana. Explain this to people who are just becoming familiar with it. because a lot of you out there that are listening totally understand this, you know, start to finish,

A to Z. But for those that are just becoming sort of familiar with it because it's got so much traction in terms of PR, et cetera, give it to us in a nutshell. Why should we be thinking about this? All right, Kevin. First off, let me just explain I am involved in CBD. CBD has less than 3 tenths of 1% of THC. When you look at the cannabis plant, the two main ingredients that come from it are THC, which is a psychoactive ingredient which gets you high.

And then there's CBD, which are cannabinoids, which have so many incredible benefits. and you could take CBD without getting high. So imagine, Kevin, the reason why you stopped getting high 25 years ago is you became an adult. You took on a family. You took on a job. As much as you might have liked being high. You didn't want to be high at work. And then you didn't want to be high as a parent.

Right. So, yeah, there is that. Right. I didn't, just to be clear, just so for the purposes of just being completely open, And I wasn't the dude getting baked every day to begin with. I understand. I'm not accusing you with that. It wasn't my crowd.

But occasional use, certainly in college and high school college and shortly thereafter, that was not unusual. So, Kevin, what's really going on in this country is big farmer, right? They own it. They own everything. You take something like Ambien, 54 million, and I could be wrong on this number, I've heard it, 54 million Americans get prescribed Ambien to go to sleep. Is that good for you? I don't know, but I know there's got to be other alternatives.

So you can go over the county, you could buy melatonin. Is that good for you? It's probably better than Ambien. So science has dissected CBD from the plant, and that is the world that I live in and I travel in. I am with a national CBD company. We're owned by a public company out of Canada. that's a, you know, a big billion-dollar company, and I am now in this CBD space.

What I am seeing CBD work for, and it's amazing because I'm traveling all over the country, I'm doing trade shows, I'm meeting with large accounts, anxiety, depression, insomnia, helping people sleep, fibromyalgia. I get people thanking me. as it relates to Parkinson's disease. But now, Kevin, I'm not going to make a claim

that it absolutely works for everybody all the time. But I am hearing testimonials all day long, and I have watched what it's doing for friends that I've given it to. So it's pretty amazing that you're getting all these effects without the THC. So you're hearing all about this CBD. You know, you're seeing stores like CVS, Walgreen, Rite Aid. So what they're doing, and you're a golfer, I mean, you play all the time. I'm sure you ache in some of your body.

This morning, because I played last night, yeah. So why wouldn't you buy some CBD cream and put it on wherever you're aching? Because I take Advil instead. I take anti-inflammatories instead. But I'm here, I hear Advil over a long period of time, isn't great for your liver. Right. So CVS, Walgreens, right aid, they're going, they're not going to deal yet with the ingestibles. They're not going to touch gummies and they're not going to touch tinctures until everything works out with the FDA.

You know, in late 2018 is when hemp landed on the map. It's been around for hundreds and thousands of years, but Trump took it in the Farm Bill Act and decriminalized hemp so it can move across state lines. How crazy is this, Kevin, that marijuana spill today is in the Controlled Substance Act, heroin, marijuana, but yet we could buy marijuana recreationally now in the number of states. So the whole government play on this. So now hemp, which has so many benefits, has been able now in all 50 states, but the FDA still isn't sure how they want to treat it. So the big companies, the big boxes, they want to be there because they know there are so many medical benefits and it's such a big business. I mean, Wall Street says that CBD in 2019, it's going to be a billion-dollar industry growing to $22 billion in 2022. Jesus.

Even if you cut it in half, right? It goes to $10 billion. I should get the hell out of the podcast business. You know, Kevin, you tell me I'm a good sales. I watched you an accent. I got a desk for you because you are damn good and you'd make a lot more money selling CBD than you are at being one of the best podcast hosts in the country. Let me ask you. I mean that, Kevin. In all seriousness, what are the negatives to CBD? I think everybody, if you didn't understand it before, you now know the difference between THC and CBD.

THC is the part of weed that gets you high. CBD is the part of it that gets you that is beneficial without getting you high. What are the negatives to CBD? Are there any? You know, that's a great question, and I'm around it all day, and I haven't heard it. I've heard people drink a whole bottle, which I'm not recommending to anybody ever. Can you have a bad reaction to it? Is it something that people can be allergic to?

I mean, what, there, there. So, wait a minute, Kevin, you know what? One of the first places I went when I was offered this opportunity is right next to NIH, where we live, where I live in Bethesda, there's an apothecary there. And there's a guy in there, Brian, who's like a manned scientist. He knows everything about every vitamin and every herb and every nutrient. And I went in there and I said, what do you make of this CBD? he went into a 30-minute dissertation that I ended up recording and transcribing,

and I'm happy to share it with you at any point. They get patients from NIH that go into this apothecary, and they have been using this CBD for years and years and years because it doesn't interfere with their chemo and some of these other radical treatments they're on, and it helps. But to answer your question, I have not heard what the negative is. That's a great question. I guess the negative is don't take it.

What is the typical form that CBD is taken in by most people? So, Kevin, what I recommend is it comes in a lot of different ways. We represent a few different lines. Am I okay to mention my brand? Sure. Of course. So our company is a rise bioscience. A-R-I-S-E-B-I-O-S-C-I-E-N-C-E dot com. You can read all about us. We're owned by Tereson, big Canadian cannabis company, which we have an investment from one of the biggest.

You know that there was a big investment. There's two big companies, canopy growth in Tilray. Canopy growth took $5 billion from Constellation Brands. Indirectly, we are owned by canopy growth at 17%. We're owned by Tereson, which is a public company. Our brands are hemp lucid, H-E-M-P-L-U-C-I-D, H-E-Lucid.com, FunkyFarms.com, F-U-N-K-Y-F-A-R-M-S dot com. And if you wanted to just go and shop, your CBDDirect.com. So what it is is that we start with tinctures.

Tinctures are what you open up with an eyedropper, right? That's a pure form. It's liquid. You put it in your mouth. You could do it in the morning or at night. It's a drop that you put in your mouth with an eyedropper. Correct. You put in one whole eyedropper.

Okay. Depending on, you know, it comes in different milligrams and different strengths. But that is what we call a tincture. Okay. So how else? You'd mention creams. Okay, I'll give it you. I'll go.

Tinctures, you could put it in a pill one a day, pills. They come in 15, 25, and 50 milligrams. So you could just take a pill if you'd want to take the tincture. You have edibles, edibles meaning gummies. They come in gummies. Then some people prefer to smoke it. You could vape it. You could put it in your own vape pen or you could buy disposable vape pods. So these are the ways that we're seeing ingested. Tinctures, gummies, drinks. people are putting it in drinks we have drink packages gum you know gummies and vaping vaping is very popular too so depending on the brand and then you have the topical creams

so we have two brands one is called calc that has 0.0 THC so if you're an athlete or you're a police officer you're somebody that's getting drug tested even though everything else we sell is less than three-tenths of 1%, which probably won't show up in a drug test. But if you're afraid and you're Kevin Durant and you're making $28 million a year, why mess around with it? So you go ahead and you use. This is really interesting because you have these players with the marijuana policy still in place just say in the NFL. and they'll say, like Trent Williams, who has been suspended, I think, twice in the NFL,

the Redskins starting offensive tackle, left tackle. You know, I think he would tell you, I need it. I need the benefits that come from it as a professional athlete to help with the aches and pains to get through the day. Why wouldn't they just be taking the CBD stuff? They are, and they're going to brands. See, if you do full spectrum like we do, Think of Kevin taking the whole plant, and I'm going to take the whole plant and give you all the benefits of the plant. That's called full spectrum.

And in that, you might get a trace of THC because that helps grow all the cannabinoids on the plant. But if you're a football player and you just want CBD, we can do that, and that's in a brand called Calci. So then you don't have the risk of maybe testing positive. But it's such a minimal trace. All right, I got to run, but I want everybody to do two things. I want, first of all, you to research this on your own. All right, Howard is, Howie's in this business, and he's explained it very well. Arisebioscience.com for all of their brands.

I want you to also check out how we doing it, all right? H-O-W-I-E-O-N-I-T dot com. So you can be introduced to my friend of 25 years, Howie Craw. and then the last thing that I'm going to just ask you real quickly is if I wanted today to go to Walgreens or CVS, I could buy CBD and an eyedropper to try it out. Is that available right now? No. No.

What's available at CVS and the big boxes is only a topical cream. They're going to wait until the FDA rules and says you could ingest it. But you could buy the tinctures. Go ahead. The projected growth in the industry from $1 billion in 2019 to $20 to $22 billion. It's based on the idea that the FDA is going to approve all of this stuff for CBD. No, no, no. It's already approved.

We just don't have an FDA ruling. We don't know what the FDA is saying about it. Okay. It's already hemp is CBD. It's been taken out of the Controlled Substance Act, and it's legal everywhere. I got to run. This is interesting, and I can call you, of course, to get more information. But I'm considering it.

I'm considering it. But Kevin, here's what I want to do for you. I'm sending you samples. I'll send you both my lines, both funkyfarms.com and hemp lucid.com. And Kevin, another very important thing, I know we're in a rush, but this is Mental Health Awareness Month. And you need to address it because this is helping. people with serious depression and serious anxiety. And it's a big problem in our country.

It's a big problem for so many people and so many people that have kids that are suffering from things that, for whatever reason, I think our generation suffered less of, but there's more anxiety, there's more stress. And these are, you know, I've read a lot about this too, and I'm glad you were able to really drill down to sort of a 101 version of it for everybody that's not familiar with it. But it is the future, and it's going to be something that I think a lot of us will end up using it. And one thing I'd say is because there is a rush, you know, call it a green rush right now, right?

It's an industry that's just growing in leaps and mounds. There are a lot of companies that don't belong to be out there. So if you are going to try CBD, And you are going to take it. Buy a reputable brand. Buy it from a reputable business. Don't buy a bottle that you can't see through, and it says, we cure migraine. No, you buy name brands.

Well, there are big brands out there. You stick with the names that you know that are repul, that trade publicly is a public company. We are under so much scrutiny. You can follow from seed to sale, lab reports, where this gets manufactured, What the tests say? And if you can't get that in the product, don't buy it. I got to run, but that was the original reason for talking to you about it was the migraine thing, but I promise you I won't buy something that says we cure migraines. You're not buying. I'm sending you a sample. You can't. And stay away from 1,800 migraines.

You know that. I got to run. Thanks so much. Kevin, always great to talk to you. Let's do it again soon, all right? Thanks, Howie. That was great for me, interesting for me. Maybe not for everybody, but I think it is one of those subjects, CBD, THC, weed, legalization, and marijuana, all that stuff, and trying to understand it and how he's great in helping us do that. Rate us on iTunes, if you haven't done that, rate us and review us. Also, make sure to tell people the kevin Sheehan Show.com is also a place where you can get this podcast. Tommy's with me tomorrow. Enjoy the day.