The Kevin Sheehan Show - RG3 to DC?

Episode Date: December 12, 2018

Kevin opens the show by discussing the possibility that RG3 could compete for an NFL starting job somewhere next year and that somewhere could be in Washington. Kevin then talks about the Mason Foster situation before ranking the Redskins Snyder-era "Rock Bottoms". Scott Allen from the Washington Post and Caps play-by-play voice Joe Beninati are guests on the show. Kevin talks NFC playoff picture and does an "NFL Buy and Sell" to finish up. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now, here's Kevin. I'm here. Aaron is here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them we told you to call. Scott Allen from the Washington Post is going to join us on the show today. And Joe Beninotti will be with us as the caps are on fire. And Alex Ovechkin is having a great season. And Joe Beege is flat out. is always one of my favorite people to talk to. That's my phone. Let me turn the ringer off. There we go. Is it anybody important? Nope, nobody important? Just one of those robocalls, it looks like.

Joe B's always one of my favorites. I think he is a great guest, and that would be put side by side with him being one of the great play-by-play guys in all of sports. So he will join us in a bit as well. NFL buyer sell today also. and I'm going to get to my ranking of the Snyder-era rock bottoms because I believe this one right now is in consideration. All right, I'm going to start with this, though.

I'll get to Mason Foster also, if you didn't see his tweets yesterday. I think they're real. I don't know if they were photoshopped. I think everybody assumes they were real. I'm going to start with this, and I'm going to make this very clear up front. This is not a report. I'm not reporting anything. This isn't Josh Norman from a few weeks ago or some of the other things over the years.

This is me sharing with you something that I've heard now two times over the last three weeks. And I just want to make sure that no one takes this and runs with it and says that the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast is reporting that ba-b-b-ba. I'll get to the ba-b-ba here in a second. The reason I want to share it with you is because I find it so fascinating. and I think you will too and I think you will find it believable on some level. Robert Griffin

III is going to get a chance to start next year in the league. One of the teams that potentially would be interested in Robert Griffin the 3 as a potential starter on their team

if their start quarterback who they traded for last year and then extended contractually isn't healthy enough might be the Washington Redskins. Could you imagine? So here's why, and I've heard it twice, all right, from credible people, but I'm not, this is not a report because this was conversation about the interest level from not only the redskins potentially, but from someone else. And it's not Cooney. Let me just be clear on that because, oh, Coley told you that. I never, ever share things that Coolly has told me about the organization

unless he says, hey, let's talk about this. Or, yeah, go ahead, which is rarely go ahead on my own. But he has apparently been a model citizen in Baltimore. It's, why would it be impossible to believe, and I've always thought this as a possibility, that Robert Griffin III, who was completely and utterly self-absorbed, empowered by the owner here in his rookie season and beyond, why wouldn't it be possible that he would at some point in his life later, as he matured personally and professionally, he's 28 years old right now, why isn't it possible that he learned from his mistakes and that he grew and that he may even cringe when he thinks about some of the things that happened here in 2012, 13, 14.

The social media crusade that he was on that was incredibly self-indulgent and clueless, really, for a lot of it and rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. But there is still, we know this. there is still a contingent out there of Redskins fans who feel like Robert Griffin III was completely screwed over when he was here. I think that's a fascinating take if you really followed this story day and day out. But he came in at the end of the game on Sunday against Kansas City because Lamar Jackson got knocked out of those final two plays.

He actually on the fourth and 22, put a ball right on Willie Sneed's hands. It could have been interference. It was a good throw. And in the game against Atlanta, two weeks ago, when Lamar Jackson got knocked out of that particular game, Griffin came in and led a long scoring drive. A 13-play 55-yard – actually, that's not the one.

A 14-play 60-yard drive. where he completed two of four passes, and it led to a field goal, a huge field goal in the second half in a 13 to 10 game. Everything we have heard about Griffin in Baltimore has been positive. It's been positive. Now, we also know that teammates aren't going to throw, you know, a quarterback under the bus that's third string.

What's the point of that? And we also know that for the most part, although eventually the floodgates opened on that. But early on, the Redskins, his teammates that couldn't stand him, didn't want to throw him under the bus publicly because they knew the owner, loved him. And they knew what the owner's feelings were about him. But he's 28. He's always had a gun for an arm. The league is moving more now, more towards quarterbacks that are dual threat.

You know, for all of those, and I say this all the time, it was just laughing. for the, you know, for the Greg Cocells and Pete Priscoes and all these different people that had no idea what they were watching in 2012 and thought it was gimmicky. And then even in 2014 and 15, you know, Phil Sims would sit there and watch a zone read play and call it a draw. Like he, and I always attributed that to the fact that people didn't really watch college football much, which I think was a big part of it. But it's more. than it's ever been. I mean, all of the quarterbacks, you know, just look at Marriota all a sudden having a resurgence to his career. Deshawn Watson, Baker Mayfield, you know, they're running a lot of stuff for him. We've seen it over and over again. Prescott involved in the run game. Tribisky is involved in the run game. Obviously, Cam, you know, and Russell Wilson. You know, Robert Griffin III, if he comes out of Baltimore, all right, if Baltimore says, hey, this dude grew up, he's matured, these things that we heard about him in Washington, him in Cleveland,

and other places, not true. He's going to get a look as a starter next year. And the owner of the Washington Redskins has an affection for Robert Griffin III. that has never waned, has never wavered. And they may need a quarterback next year. And that quarterback could be Robert Griffin III under a very team-friendly deal where he would potentially have a chance to start. Again, I want to be clear on this.

Things I've heard, I'm not reporting. All right. We'll get to Scott Allen here shortly. We'll get to Joe Beninati. What do you have from here? What do you want to ask? Well, two things. first about Robert Griffin the third.

Putting him back into that situation where the owner still loves him, do you think that would bring out the old traits or would he still be the new RG3 under those circumstances, do you think? It would depend on who the coach was and what the coach demanded. And let me just say this.

The one part, and I didn't mention this, the disconnect for all of you would be, well, Jay Gruden doesn't like him and he doesn't want him. And that's true. So obviously this is contingent on Jay Gruden not being here next year and they're being a new coach. And perhaps that new coach would be a coach that would want to work with Robert Griffin III and that style of quarterback. That would be a redo, wouldn't it?

I mean, he brought Jay Gruden in to make Robert Griffin the third work. Anyway, you know, what he's done in Baltimore, according to all accounts, is account for himself in a very positive way. And he has a gun for an arm, always has had a gun for an arm. His biggest issues, his biggest flaws, fundamentals in the pocket, reading defenses, not wanting to be a dual threat quarterback. And then obviously all of the stuff that went on here in Washington, that again, and I've said this many times over. He was 22 years old and the owner basically gave him power

that superseded the coach's power. You can't do that. I mean, the irony of it is that Robert Griffin III, if Snyder had really wanted what was best for RG3 in 2013, he would have said, you listen to your coach, don't call me again,

don't approach me again, unless it's for a personal thing because we're friends and I'll help you with anything personally. But when it comes to a professional matter, Mike is the guy you go to. And he should have given Mike the power to coach him in the way that Mike had coached quarterbacks before. Because having Mike and Kyle as your quarterbacks coach essentially would have benefited Robert Griffin the third in the long run. That's the irony of it, is that somehow Snyder thought he was doing the right thing by Griffin when in fact he was hurting him significantly.

Okay, I'm going to get to a quick ranking of some of the rock bottoms of the Snyder era that I put together. But first, this Mason Foster thing where he was communicating Aaron with a fan, right? Yeah, he was. Yeah, it seemed like it was last week based on the time stamps and the fan decided to release it this week. Oh, this was from last week? Oh, and the fan released it. Yes.

Ah, so it was done with the expectation of some level of privacy. Yes, this was a DM. I can't tell it. It looks like it was on Instagram, but yeah, it was released yesterday. I think this got blown up then perhaps a little bit inaccurately, don't you think? I mean, he still said what he said, and even if he was, you know, expectation of privacy, like, it's social media. Like, we've seen screenshots come out before. So let me read you the screenshot.

That has been substantiated as it is Mason Foster. Yes, it does seem like he has admitted it. Well, the one-on-one nature of this versus a push, a social media push out to anybody that follows him makes it different for me. But a fan, I guess, contacted Mason Foster and said, keep your head up. We definitely have to get better. But we have to move on and get ready for the next game. Never be satisfied like most people. Aim for greatness.

Mason Foster, quote, fuck this team and this fan base. The fan then responds with, it's been tough for some time and it sucks ass, but we got to keep fighting, bro. We're in hell right now, point blank. Mason Foster's response, yeah, and I'm not fucking with it

or being a scapegoat to make fans feel better about all these big money people who ain't playing or get. and dogged out. Oh, boy. The dysfunction of this franchise never ceases to amaze. This coming from the defensive captain. The defensive captain.

Good point. Forgot about that. Yeah. Forgot about that old number 54 is the team captain. I think this could make for a good shirt. What do you think? Oh, man. It's unraveling.

I've had some people here recently reach out to me and say, Dude, they've got three games left. They can still make the postseason. Why are you raining down on them? Well, because it feels to me. I mean, I can only tell you what it feels like to me. This is what it feels like to me. It feels like it has fallen apart,

that it's a new rock bottom that we're in right now, and that they're not going to win another game. I don't think they're going to win another game. They might win one. They're not going to win two. would be very, very surprised. But I would also, let me just be very clear about this, come Sunday at 1 o'clock,

I'm going to be rooting like hell for Josh Johnson to go 25 of 32 for 339, 3-39, 3 touchdowns, and a 38-21 win at Jacksonville, that all of a sudden completely resuscitates the season. Because then you're thinking, well, they can do that against Jacksonville's defense, why not Tennessee's defense? Why not at home against the Eagles to get into the playoffs? I will be rooting for that. But I'm also where I am right now is this feels like a major rock bottom, a major

rock bottom. It just feels that way. It just feels right. Why wouldn't it? They were down 40 to nothing. Oh, it's just one game. No, it's not just one game. It was their fourth loss in a row. It was the ugliest loss, they lost another key player that a fourth string quarterback would tend to rely on, Jordan Reed. This season's over. So here's what I did. I was thinking about whether or not this is the worst ever, where we are right now. And I've mentioned television ratings recently and attendance recently. And there are four rock bottom periods, all right, moments during the Snyder era. Actually, That's not true. There are seven in total, but I ranked the top three and then I gave out four honorable mentions.

To me right now, the number one Snyder era rock bottom is where we are now, December 2018. This is the lowest of the many recent lows in franchise history. Some might argue that there have been worse, and that's fine. And some might say, as I just mentioned, hey, they're six and seven. They're not 3 and 10. They're mathematically alive for a playoff spot. And yes, the roster, too, has some promising young talent on defense for the first time in forever. But let's not forget that it's been the defense that is caved here over the last month.

And they haven't suffered nearly the injuries. They've had a normal number of injuries defensively. The franchise is on one of its worst off-the-field clown runs. of the Snyder era. I don't know that you can really debate that. Since Bruce Allen arrived in 2010, we've been witnessed to the McNabb trade, the RG3 trade, the salary cap penalty, which I do not blame the Redskins for, the RG3 owner entitlement, as we talked about earlier, and the subsequent fallout, which included the Shanahan Leap Fest. You throw in the McLuhan mess, the Cousins contract saga, Ruben Foster, and the gutless pinning of Ruben Foster on Doug Williams. The list

just goes on and on and on, winning off the field. The Gruden Contract Extension looks dumb now. The suing of small newspapers that nobody's ever heard of. The stadium sign ban. Remember that from a few years ago? The constant bungling of defensive coordinator hires. Look, I've heard much more and much of its worse, all right? But it's unsubstantiated, so I'll pass on sharing that stuff for now. I think part of the stuff that I hear that is unsubstantiated that I don't share and that some in the media that know this don't share is perhaps sometimes why the media ends up being even more angry and more upset because there's a lot that's been, there's a lot that's even worse. the record has been mediocre over the last few years.

Not awful, mediocre. So there's that, I guess, to sort of hang on to. J.P. Finley the other day with us called it a period of sustained mediocrity. But the recent so-so record improvement, if you want to call that, hasn't helped quell what I believe to be an accelerated erosion of the fan base. There's tangible proof that the fan base is checking out at a faster pace than ever. The home opener, beautiful day, following a season opening win in Arizona with Adrian Peterson and Alex Smith on the team who was billed as the best quarterback the franchisees

had in years. All right, that should have resulted and would have resulted in previous years in a sold-out house. It was barely half-filled. A late season Monday night game in Philadelphia, you, all right, a week ago Monday, with a share of first place on the line, would have done a 30 plus local television rating just two or three years ago. It did at 21.6. Nobody wants tickets, fewer and fewer are watching, and the go-to move of selling hope, and that's always been the go-to move in the past, it seems like for the first time it's futile. Like there's no selling of hope. And part of that is because the constant overselling and under-delivering, which is basically, to me, the MO of this franchise,

overselling, under-delivering, it's run its course. The loss to the Giants was an execution, and it played out in front of a small gathering of people live and a small gathering of people watching on television. All right, the starting quarterback is unhealthy, and his future is doubt. What's not in doubt is his hefty salary cap hit that exists here over the next few years. He's got to be on the roster because of that questionable contract extension and it's going to be costly, really costly. The coaching staff is uninspiring and really, let's be fair here. It's appeared to be over its head. It's been in over its head for a while now as it relates to things like preparation, in-game strategy, player development. Where do you go for a glimmer of hope? Where do you go?

There's no recently drafted quarterback of the future. You know, there's no young rookie that was picked last year that you can pin your hopes on. This salary cap situation isn't great. There's no obvious replacement for Bruce Allen or Jay Gruden, in part because the franchise has become undesirable to work for. Right now, right now is rock bottom. It's the rock bottom of all rock bottoms. I guess the difference is they actually could miraculously change that narrative in the next three weeks. But what are the odds of that? I don't really, most of you don't believe that they're about to make a run.

Witness the television rating of a 14 on Sunday. The Dallas-Philadelphia game later that day did a 19.8 locally. other NFL games are outrating Redskins games in the Redskins home market. So it's not just a case of people aren't watching football. They are watching football, just other football more than Redskins football. Let that sink in for a moment. They're watching other games on Sunday afternoons more than they're watching the Redskins game. You can put that one right next to no sellouts, none.

Not one sold-out FedEx Stadium the entire season. Right there, Dan, right there. Many fewer are attending, many fewer are watching. I think they're likely going to lose out maybe one more win, but that conversation just ignores the big picture, which can be summed up this way. Few, very few even care right now and we'll barely even watch what happens over these final three games.

I just hope those of you that aren't watching these final three games still listen to the podcast. That's what I hope. That's number one. Right now is the number one rock bottom moment of all of the Snyder era rock bottoms. Number two is December 2009. Ten years after he purchased the team, the Redskins had an incompetent. GM, an unqualified head coach, a subpar quarterback, Jason Campbell, a bad salary cap situation, and for the first time, evidence of an apathetic fan base started to make its presence felt.

The mid-October 2009, 14 to 6 loss at home to Kansas City in front of a sparse crowd to start that left at halftime was the first indication that the fan base could, could bail on this. the hiring of Sherm Lewis, aka the bingo caller, to consult and call plays combined with the swinging gate game, 45 to 12, the home Monday night loss to the Giants, felt in the moment like the most hopeless point in the Snyder era. There was no apparent path the better. They were on their way to 4 and 12,

and it seemed in the moment to be totally unfixable, totally unfixable. December 2013's number three on my list. That was another rock bottom. The star effing owner empowered the young self-absorbed quarterback and all hell broke loose. That rock bottom was a true beauty. I mean, it was a beauty.

The owner got involved here in a way that was super destructive to the organization. And as I mentioned earlier, a young talented player who had flaws. The best thing, as I mentioned earlier, again, the best thing for Griffin would have been to let one of the best quarterback development coaches of all time work with him. Mike, Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan. They could have continued to develop what was a young, raw talent in Griffin. But the owner didn't agree with the way he was being played. And the RG3 crowds belly aching about him being a running quarterback was endorsed by the owner. The 2012 game at Cleveland was really the beginning of the end. Griffin wanted to play despite being injured and not having practiced all week.

The owner wanted him to play too. He did. Dan wanted him to play. And both made their opinions very clear to Mike Shanahan during pre-game warmups. And the coach said no. You didn't practice. You're hurt. You're not playing.

And then the backup quarterback threw for over 300 without running the zone read once. Griffin's relationship with his head coach would never be the same. His relationship with the owner, though, was airtight. The 2013 season, all right, the 2013 season was submarine because of the nature of those relationships from the jump. And it all came to a head before and during a 45-10 loss on a snowy December day at FedEx Field against the Kansas City Chiefs. Leaks led to reports before the game indicating that,

Shanahan wanted to leave a year earlier. Remember those? Those are Shanahan leaks. The game itself was a blowout in front of just a few brave souls. The shots of a near empty stadium are indelible. You see that shot all the time. The coach was out. Bruce became a solo top day to day dog. He became the day-to-day number one, number one once Mike was gone. And RG3 started a self-promotional social media a crusade that made every mature adult cringe except for the owner and team president. That was number three. Those are my top three. Now 2009 and 2013.

The honorable mentions five and eleven, not too good. Spurrier 2003 felt like rock bottom, but he fixed that quickly with the hiring of Joe Gibbs, didn't he? December 2014 felt really, really bad when Gruden came in. promised the owner he could develop Griffin as a dropback passer but realized it wasn't possible. That led to a 4-12 disaster of a season. That felt awful late December 2014. And those are the honorable mentions.

I mean, some of you will say January 2017 when they lost to the Giants to get into the playoffs, that that felt like rock bottom. Not in the same way. And clearly when Gibbs retired, you know, a month and a half after Sean had passed. that didn't feel great either. But that's it. That's my list. Let me tell you about Window Nation real quickly.

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Window Nation will pay your heating bill until the new windows are installed. Call 86690 Nation or visitwindonation.com. That's 86690 Nation or shopwindonation.com and tell them I told you to call. All right, let's bring in Scott Allen from the Washington Post. Scott does a great job with the bog, and he ranked the worst losses of the Jay Gruden era, yes, the other day on the bog. And I was going to tell you that I just finished going through. It sort of gave me the idea to rank rock bottoms in the Snyder era because there have been

multiple rock bottoms. You know, the moment in which a fan, and I am one, feels like there's no hope. And we've had several of those during the Snyder era. But I actually, before we get to your list of Jay Gruden, the worst five losses, I really feel like for a lot of reasons, Scott, you know, that especially the eroding fan base indicators, television ratings, attendance, et cetera. I really feel like this is the rock bottom, even though mathematically they could make a run to the postseason. What do you think? Yeah, that's the crazy thing. I mean, yesterday in between writing a post where I was kind of rounding up all this anger from former Redskins players like Clinton Portis and Santana Moss about Sunday's effort, I find myself clicking over to 538's NFL playoff predictions and, you know, punching in win, win loss, what if they win and the Eagles lose and the Panthers lose and seeing the odds go up and up and up if they're somehow able to win it, Jacksonville and then Tennessee. I don't see it happening. This certainly could be up there in terms of

lowest of the low. I mean, we could rank the rock bottoms with like pictures of Alex Smith dragging the boulder along the bottom of the ocean like he does in his freak workouts in the offseason. This is right up there, I think, with 2009, 2013. You know what also, you have tangible indicators, right? The television ratings are probably, you know, an estimated 50% lower than where they would have been three years ago for a game against the Eagles on a Monday night in December for first place. We've got the attendance issues. They won't sell out one game this year officially. And, you know, it's the running clown show of the Bruce Allen era, which has also accelerated, in recent years with, you know, just last week, or two weeks ago now, the Ruben Foster signing,

the contract saga with Kirk, the McLuhan mess. You know, all of that stuff seems to be coming, you know, more furiously and even faster than before, which is why I feel like, and I can only speak to this as a fan, but I can also cite how fans are reacting via sort of the tangible measurements that we just discussed. But I just don't see 2009 the end of the Zorn era or the end of the Shanahan era, which got really ugly in December of 2013. I think that they are runner-ups to this. I think you could be right. I mean, especially you mentioned the TV ratings.

I think in 2013, that was the last year of the Shanahan era, they averaged a 26.6 rating throughout the season. season that year. And, you know, we looked at the numbers, the numbers came out from the, this past Sunday's Giants game, what, 14.14.8, it was less than 15. And, you know, last year, for some context, that Chargers game on the road the same week, they got blown out. That was, what, 11.8. Right. And I remember reading at the time, I mean, Dan Steinberg wrote it up, that that seems like, we don't have the numbers from every single game, but that certainly seemed like the low point, certainly of the Snyder era. And looking ahead to these next two weeks, I think we've got to be going lower.

I mean, Sunday had to have been buoyed by some of the Giants fans in this area. But who's paying attention to the Jags and Titans? I think it could get really, really ugly if you're looking for indicators in terms of TV ratings in these next two weeks. I think that's right. You know, the 11 that they did against the Chargers last year came in a meaningless game for the Redskins. They were completely out of it. The Philadelphia game and even the Giant game on Sunday, you know, technically they were still very much alive, as they will be going into the game Sunday.

But you make a good point with all of the New Yorkers that live here, that 14 may go super low on Sunday. And I would think that the giant number also had something to do with them getting completely blown out, 40 to nothing. Although that actually... Although I have to tell you that on some level, I bet for some people that made it more interesting to watch. Are we watching history here? Yeah. Because it was so bad. We're talking to Scott Allen from the Washington Post.

All right. Let's go through your list because you didn't put Sunday as the number one worst loss of the Jay Gruden era. And there had been plenty of them to choose from. Tell everybody what your number one was. number one for me is i think will forever be the final game of the the 26th season the the win and in against the giants at home you're playing a giant's team um that had already clinched its spot in the postseason not only that it had its seating was already determined

there was nothing to gain for the giants um with a win eli manning started but they rested a bunch of other starters um and of course the redskins they weren't starting their third string quarterback, a Mark Sanchez or Josh Johnson. It was Kurt Cousins, franchise QB. All they needed was a win at home to essentially clinch a spot in the postseason for a second straight year. And two picks by Kirk, a 19 to 10 loss. And like that, it was the start of a brutal off season. That was certainly the worst big game loss, you know.

And it felt it was so deflating because of everything you just described. And, you know, over the years now, I mean, or at least a couple of years, it's always been pinned on Kirk. And, you know, I'm a Kirk defender. The defense was horrible that day. Jay Gruden's team was utterly unprepared. But Kirk didn't. Kirk played poorly too and didn't overcome any of that. But it's also, it's one of those indications of why I, or it's one of those examples why I think Jay Gruden can't.

come back. You know, it's not like these injuries are the only reason for the mediocre record. His team hasn't been well-coached for, you know, at least the slight majority of games that he's coached in. You had Giants 40 Redskins 16 from Sunday number two behind the deflating playoff-knock-knocked-out game against the Giants. What were your three, four, and five? Number three, you know, You have it in front of you there. Yeah, I do. It's okay, because you're like me, yeah. Unless it's in front of you, you forgot.

They all kind of run together, because let me tell you, real quick, you know, when I was talking about the idea for this story, I thought about kind of re-upping worst losses of the Snyder era, because that's something I had done in 2014 after the Bucks game, 27-7. I think that's on the list. I forget if it's three. Yeah, but Bucks 27 Redskins. at the end of November, mid-November 2014 is three. The Chargers lost last year was four, and you had the Saints 34-31 comeback from 15 down

over the final few minutes of the game to beat the skins. And for all intents and purposes, and the competitive portion of last year as number five. Yeah, so really all sorts of different types of situations and games on that list. And I try to take into account, you know, obviously not all of them were big games with playoff stakes, certainly number three, that Bucks game. That was the Redskins were already out of it.

That's Jay Gruden's first year. What made that one so memorable and so awful to me was that I think the Redskins were something like four and seven. They were coming off a buy. RG3 was starting and you've got the Bucks coming to town. The Bucks were one in eight, I think. Yeah. Like 30th in points allowed, 29th and in total offense. And the Redskins just got run off the field.

That's Mike Evans' rookie year. He put up 200 yards. Receiving 27 to 7 final, I think Griffin's first pass was intercepted. It was a miserable, cold, drizzly day. Dan Steinberg wrote a great piece from the stands that day where people are chanting by the end, we want cult, we want cult, booze just raining down. That was a low point in the Snyder era and certainly the Gruden era, obviously. It was a terrible day.

It was almost like Jay sticking it to Dan saying, look, he can't play the other guys better. We've got to play the other guy. And his last game had beaten Dallas on a Monday night, if I recall. So as we're sitting here talking, I know that there are people listening that are saying, all right, enough guys, enough with the Redskins bashing. How do you react to that? I certainly hear it. I mean, after this latest list came out, I got some comments that were essentially,

well, what did you expect with, they've lost their two starting quarterbacks. You've got a guy in Mark Sanchez, who hasn't started in 14. years. He's replaced by a guy who hadn't thrown a pass in a regular season game in five years. Well, honestly, I didn't expect them to win. My pushback is they were underdogs for a reason. I thought it was going to take a huge effort by the defense to win that game and keep their fading playoff hopes alive. But, you know, what we saw in the second quarter, I don't care. I expected the offense to struggle. But that second quarter, from the defense, even with the tough spot that the offense put them in,

it was like, I think in one story I described it as, it was like the opposite of the second quarter of Super Bowl 22 when Doug Williams went off. I mean, like now Redskins fans kind of know how the Broncos must have felt when Doug Williams put 35 points on him, because that was maybe the ugliest, I think people were saying maybe that's the ugliest half in Redskins history, certainly the ugliest quarter. Yeah, I mean, look, right now if we were, when I hear that, I was curious because I was reading some of the comments of your story.

Oh, never do that, Kevin. Well, no, no, I read your comments. I don't remind ever. But I never care about that because your instincts are right. And I think mine are too, and the numbers back it up. Fewer and fewer are caring because of all of the shenanigans and the losing. There are diehards and they go to Harvest Fest every year and they attend the draft day party and pay, you know, for $12 beers to watch Larry Michael down in the field announce the new draft choice. Right.

But that is a significant, significant minority of the fan base. And I know this, Scott. There are people in that building out there that have always looked at that part of the fan base and said, that's our fan base. No, it isn't. Yeah. It's not. It is a diehard minority, and God bless them. I'm not being critical of them, but they're never going to think that the Redskins do anything wrong.

What do you think happens next? Look, there are seven-point underdog this week. If they play poorly this week, they could be a double-digit underdog to Tennessee the following week, and then there'll be an underdog at home, even if Philly has nothing to play for in the season. finale. So let's just assume that they don't make the postseason. I think that's fair to assume what do you think happens after the season ends? Oh, I think you're right that nothing's going to, I don't think anything's going to happen until after the season ends. And I think at that point, if I were to bet right now, I would think that Bruce Allen goes or is reassigned. I mean,

if Snyder wants to keep him as the guy who negotiates the next year, stadium deal and strips them of all other responsibilities, fine, and if he's going to bring somebody else in to assume those other roles. I think barring a performance or two like we saw on Sunday, right now my feeling is that Jay Gruden is back, and I don't necessarily think that's the right decision. I know that I know that you have been just listening to your podcast, you're saying that Jay and Bruce have got to go. Right now, I guess I think it would be one or the other, and I think I would lean toward it being Bruce. Thank you for doing this. Reed Scott, most of you do in the post. He's continuing the longstanding tradition of the bog, and you're doing a great job.

appreciate you coming on, and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks a lot, Kevin. All right, let's bring in Joe Beninati, the voice of the Washington Capitals on NBC Sports Washington, one of my favorite guests and one of my favorite play-by-play people. And I wanted to have you on today because, you know, last night I was actually on a long drive up to state college to pick up my son who just finished his last final at Penn State and bring him back. And I was on satellite switching around.

And I switch to the Caps game and you know how it posts the score. And it's like it's 3-0 in the first period. I'm like, they are, they're sizzling right now. And Ovechkin ends up with the hat trick last night. They beat Detroit 6 to 2. They shut out Columbus over the weekend, 4 to nothing. Right now they're in first, Joe, in the Metropolitan. And Tampa's got a better record overall.

And I think maybe Toronto does as well. But we talked about this during the first. week or 10 days of the season that this team, this capitals team might be better than the Stanley Cup winning team. Are we seeing evidence of that right now? Bits and pieces, Kevin. There are a lot of good things going on right now. And I just, I go to the championship pedigree more than anything from a mental standpoint, the ability, what they achieved last spring helps them from time to time throughout different points in a hockey game. But it's not a physical thing.

It's more of a mental thing, the ability to sit there and go, we've overcome adversity in the past on the most critical, at the most critical moment, why can't we do it now? So if there is a bump in the road early in a game or late in the game, they have the wherewithal the mental capacity to just park it and overcome it. And from a talent standpoint, I don't really think we've seen the entire lineup altogether, whether it be due to suspension or injury or what have you. And yet still they have at any moment a team that can take a game by the throat. And they did that last night against Detroit, a Detroit team that played against L.A. the night before.

And we've seen Caps teams in the past lollygagged around when they should have an advantage like that. That wasn't the case last night. They took that game in the first period and said, there will be no chance for you, Detroit. And they played extremely well. I've seen instances of it in this first quarter plus of the season. That showdown in Columbus that was supposed to be, you know, hotly contested for the top of the metro was a no contest. When I look at things, you mentioned two teams that are out there in the east. Tampa Bay is terrific.

So is Toronto. But Tampa Bay is the one that, to me, is the one that means business. But that's for a long time from now. Let's not get into that. Yeah, I mean, they've got 49 points. They're 24 wins, seven losses, and one overtime loss. Kevin, they're awesome. They're really deep, and they're doing it without their best goalie. I mean, it's a very, very good team. I can't wait to see them match up with Washington, both in the regular season and down the road. Well, they've scored 130 goals on the year. They're easily the most explosive team offensively in the league.

I think that's 17 more than whoever's number two. I thought I read that this morning. But I wanted to ask you about the caps and how explosive they can be offensively and how lethal they can be offensively. Remember there was this thought in 2010, 2011, that certainly 2009, 2010, that this was one of the best offensive teams that they had ever assembled. What about this one? Where does this one rank? Yeah, this is better than the high-flying Gabby team. It really is from an offensive standpoint. And that's been a product coming and developing. I think it's directly attributable to number 92. When you've getting Kuznetsoff plays at the level that he can,

you have a spectacular one-two punch down the middle with Baxter's playmaking ability and with Kuznetsoff. And we saw Kuznetsov lead the Stanley Cup playoff tournament last year in points. When he's at that level, Washington can compete with anyone. And that gives you a little bit of that Crosby-Malkin-type dynamic. backstrom Kuznetsov type dynamic. And then you add in what Lars Eller does from a two-way standpoint.

And so many of the great teams are built well down the middle. The caps are extremely strong down the middle. And Kuznetzov, Kevin hasn't even been his best in the last week to 10 days. And all of a sudden, oh, by the way, he's got a six-game point streak. And I'm not necessarily sure he's playing nearly as well as he did to start the season. This team has a lot of offensive gifts. And all of a sudden, now you're getting fourth-line production. from Yashkin and Dowd and Boyd, it makes them incredibly tough to stop.

I want to say in the last dozen games, they're averaging close to four goals a game, and that's really solid. Yeah, I mean, I think it's the fourth time this year. They've scored six or more in a game, and part of that, obviously, is now 33-year-old Alex Ovechkin, who had a hat trick last night, the 21st hat trick of his career. He's got 25 goals now on the 6th. season, rank his play right now to where it's been at other really productive portions of his career?

Yeah, this is the amazing thing about number eight. He's, what, got 25 goals and 30 games, which, I mean, I start shaking my head at that at any age, even when he was electric when he was in his early 20s. The goals are coming in different ways, Kevin. I think that's a maturity and an evolution in Alex's game. again, when he was fresh from being the number one overall pick, he was going end-to-end. I mean, pick your favorite fastest NBA point guard. That was Alex Ovechkin, and he could take it all the way to the rim and score.

That's what he was doing when he was a baby. Things are different now. The explosiveness isn't the same. You do see it from time to time. But there are, he's scoring goals in different ways. Rebounds, deflections, forechecking, turnovers. Last night was a little bit of good. fortune on a couple of occasions, one so much that he was laughing out loud that the shot

that he originally took was really going 10 feet wide and had no business going in. But when you're hot, you're hot. I just, from an overall type game, I can understand why our analysts, Alan May, Brent Johnson, Craig Lachlan, all of our analysts are saying he's playing the best hockey of his life. And I think that's all the way around, cover to cover, because he is a bit more conscientious on defense. He's definitely working harder on the defensive end.

And offensively, you know, his playmaking gifts, we showed a passing sequence, a montage of terrific assists from Alex Havetchin. That would make Nicholas Baxter blush. So if he's got that kind of skill, and he's always had it, he's been a tremendous offensive player, but

everybody goes to goals, goals, goals, his playmaking, his feeding ability in the last couple of weeks has been off the charts. Yeah, I mean, he's on pace. to, I think he's on pace to eclipse the 2007-2008 season. Somebody told me 68. Yeah, so, and that was 65. That was 65, right, Joe?

65 and 08. Yeah, 0-8 was just great for number 8. Again, I think back to those days, I can't believe there as long ago as they are. I can't believe that's 10 years ago, but he's such, at that time, Kevin, he's, just glowing hot. I mean, you can see how extraordinarily powerful and fast he is. His game's changed, and I think his game has probably changed even for the better. He's including more of his teammates in the offensive attack, and still, he always possesses the ultimate weapon, which is, I think it's got to be the best hockey shot on Earth. Yeah. I want to ask you about Todd Reardon.

have they missed any step from the bench, and is it possible that they're better in that particular spot than they were a year ago? I don't think they've missed any steps from Barry's championship medal. The thing that I always point to with regard to Todd, with respect to Barry, maybe Kevin would be, maybe that the door is open a little bit more for communication than it might have been. Todd is a terrific teacher. I think that's first and foremost what he gained his reputation for was being able to take, let's say, a young Matt Niskin in Pittsburgh and develop his game.

Maybe take a younger John Carlson when he first came to Washington under Barry and really develop his game into what many of us think could be a Norris Trophy-winning-type season for John. You know, Todd's had a terrific hand in that development. He's a great teacher. He's the kind of person who's going to grab you and say, hey, Kevin, come into the office. Let me show you something on video. Let's go out on the ice and work it, and you see that interaction. You see that communication. In that way, maybe they're better. Maybe a smidge better. Not that Barry didn't do that, but Todd does it really, really well. And all of the staff is getting involved. One thing that I will say, Braden Holby told me this, With regard to Barry Trots, he thought Barry was a brilliant CEO-type head coach. He was great at delegating. He let his coordinators, if you will, coordinate. And that's something I think that Todd is focused upon as well. All right.

Last thing, because we've touched on it, but I want to get your thoughts. We're not even halfway through the season at this point. The Capitals have played 30, so they're 11 short of the halfway mark. But what's going on in the other division of the Eastern Conference right now is interesting. because you start to project forward and you see a potential matchup with Tampa in the postseason, and we saw one last year. And even a Toronto team who two years ago, everybody was saying, you know, everybody's talking about their youth and saying that this was the team of the future.

Both of those teams have been terrific so far. Long way until April. But how do they match up right now with the two best in the other? other division or the two other really good teams in the Eastern Conference? I'm salivating just thinking about it. I really am because the hockey fan is going to be treated. Should we get that kind of matchup in the spring, it will be unbelievable. Because both Tampa and Toronto have offensive weapons one through nine almost, and maybe

in Tampa's case, even deeper, that set people back. and Washington won a Stanley Cup championship last spring because of its commitment to defense. And you were able to short circuit a Pittsburgh team and a Tampa team, for that matter, that were terrifically gifted on offense. That would have to come to the forefront again. And I think that's always going to be in the back of Washington's mind that, yeah, we don't want to play 7-6-8-7 against those two teams you could, and it would be incredible for the fans,

but to win it and to frustrate the other team, you need to employ this chokehold that you put on them last year. And they know that they can do it, and they know that they have success with it. Tampa is the one for me. When I watch them from time to time, Kevin, I just see them as being the biggest threat. I love Toronto's talent.

They're offensive gifts off the charts. They are on the rise. They are going to be a threat for a long, long time. They have Neelander now into the fold. So they are almost, I would say, probably even more gifted offensively than Tampa. And so young, Joe. And so young.

Kevin, they're going to be good for a long, long time. And they've got an excellent head coach. Things are in place there to be a threat. You know, the hockey world would tell you hockey's better when Toronto's involved. It's been a long time. I want to say since 67 since the Maple Leafs won a cup.

They are exceptional. But to me, Tampa is the better of those two teams. It would be a phenomenal matchup with Washington. Whoever's going to come out of the Metro. The Metro's down a bit this year. The Atlantic seems to be up, and those top two teams in the Atlantic are really floating everyone's boat. Tampa is the real deal. But you still believe that Columbus and Pittsburgh are both capable, though, in the Metropolitan, don't you?

Both capable of beating Washington. Yeah, that could really upset the Applecart. But I would love to see the caps in a conference final against one of those two Titan teams from the Atlanta. I'd love that. I think the hockey fan would too, but there's no given on that. Absolutely not. But I love the way Washington's playing now. I've seen glimpses, instances of the championship team come out in them.

Right now they're cruising along really well. I mean, they're solid. They've won 10 of their last 12. They've taken a nice firm grip on that top spot. I want to see them continue in that regard. But there's no guarantee, but from a hockey standpoint, from the excitement standpoint for the fans, if you get Washington, Toronto, Washington, Tampa, and that conference final, look out. I always love doing this with you and always appreciate you giving me time, especially on this podcast.

Thanks, Joe, so much. I'll talk to you soon. No trouble at all, Kevin. I hope so. All right, thanks to Joe Beninati for joining us. Ferris-Crys-Crysler Dodge Jeep in Fairfax should be on your list if you're considering something new. You can go to ferrishcars.com right now to see live inventory in their best deals. But they make it easy for you. I've told you many times. Ralph Perkins is a good friend of mine.

He runs the dealership. Kevin Farish, great guy. I've known them for a decade plus. They're smart. They know what their customers want. They make it easy for you. They've got a sales team. They're not pushy.

They're not overbearing. If you go into Farish and you ask for Ralph and you tell them that you heard about the dealership, on my podcast. Ralph will put you in touch with one of their most experienced salespeople. And I talked to Ralph over the weekend and he said, right now we've got so much inventory on our lot and we need to move it in time for the new vehicles that come in after the first of the year, which means a great deal opportunity for anybody that decides to try to buy something new from Ferris. Their highest rebates of the year all year long. Great deals on the Jeep Cherokee, the Jeep Grand Cherokee, and the Jeep Rangler. Also, the RAM pickup. He told me that

great deals right now exist on the RAM pickup, and they've got plenty of them on the lot. You'll probably be able to find the exact make model and color and be able to drive at home. If you like this show and you've been thinking about buying something new, I give you my word that you'll be taken care of if you head out to Farish and ask for Ralph Perkins. They are located right there in Fairfax Circle. Ask for Ralph when you get there. Tell them, I sent you. You can also find out everything Farish has right now, including live inventory and live pricing at ferrish cars.com. Let's get to some NFL buy and sell. Are you buying or are you selling?

NFL buyer sell. A couple of things before I get to the buy and sell, actually, but it's all NFL related. I got a tweet from somebody yesterday, and it's from Brad. Brad on Twitter. The overtime solution is simple, and I've been screaming for it for a decade. Each team guaranteed a possession one 15-minute quarter. Whoever has more points after the first possession or the end of 15 minutes wins. Why does it have to be more confusing?

That's fine. I think what the NFL doesn't want is they don't want 15-minute overtimes. I'm not talking about a 15-minute matrimed. I'm talking about a guaranteed 15 minutes played because that gets into, you know, a true fifth quarter played and in their mind's eye more safety issues, more injury possibilities. What I suggested yesterday, and I've suggested this since they went to the 10 minute from the 15 minute, is to move it back to 15 minutes. Keep the current overtime rule, which allows for the game to end if the team that wins the toss and in their first possession drives it down

the field and scores a touchdown. But if they get stopped, even held to a field goal, the other team gets a possession. I just think it's unfair that with a 10-minute max, a team like Dallas, and we saw this the other day, can drive it to the two-minute warning, an eight-minute drive, in overtime. They were within another first down. If that last touchdown wasn't a touchdown, if Amari Cooper got tackled at the two-yard line, they would have potentially been able to move the clock inside a minute before either winning the game with a touchdown or kicking a field goal, which would have left Philadelphia with not enough time. I just think 15-minute max makes it more equitable. And to me, the answer isn't, well, just stop them. Don't let them have an eight-minute

drive. No, the answer is if you do stop them and you hold them to a field goal, you should have a fair opportunity to go down the field and win the game. And Philadelphia would have been in the mode had they held Dallas to a field goal of having about 50 seconds to get in field goal range to tie the game. I also, when this rule came out, said that there were going to be more ties because of it. and there haven't been like a massive increase in ties, but you've got, what do you have this year? You've got two ties. Minnesota Green Bay tied, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, right?

They tied early in the year. Yeah, and a bunch of other near misses. Near misses, real close calls, including the Baltimore, Kansas City game the other day was a close call. You don't want ties in the NFL. I think the NFL is going to reconsider this in the offseason. I would be surprised if they don't reconsider it. Also, before we get to NFL buy and sell, I also just wanted to real quickly, this playoff race in the NFC is nuts.

Because Minnesota's loss still has them as the six seed. They're still the six seed in the NFC at 6-6-and-1. They also really compared to the 6-7 teams, other than the Redskins, have the easiest path to 8-7 and 1. one, you know, in their case, or two more wins, which would probably do it. Because they have the dolphins at home, they're seven and a half point favorite. Now, the dolphins just beat the Patriots, so they could lose that game. And Minnesota could be in the midst of a free fall with all of the, by the way, after the show ended yesterday, DiPilippo got fired. I forgot to mention that.

That was not on the podcast. It happened after we finished recording yesterday. We had alluded to Tommy and I did the tension that was brought up multiple times. times during the Monday night broadcast between Mike Zimmer and Di Filippo, the offensive coordinator. Clearly, that has been a problem in Minnesota all year. Look, I had many of you say to me, Zimmer is coaching at a different time and is really going to hurt Minnesota's opportunity here with the talented team and a quarterback that can throw the football because he just wants to run the football and do it old style. I don't buy that at all. I think there's still room for teams.

I still think in this day and age of the NFL that you can run the football, dominate time of possession, be physical, stop people, and win a title by winning games 21 to 17, or 21 to 9. And that's what Zimmer wants. Zimmer is an old-fashioned, tough, hard-nosed, doesn't want to take a lot of chances offensively, believes in his defense, kind of a coach. I still think there's room for it. I disagree with all of you that say that he's stuck in some sort of ancient time that doesn't work in the NFL anymore. Jacksonville was very close to getting to a Super Bowl last year playing that way, and they didn't have any hope offensively. Minnesota still has hope offensively. But the NFC playoff picture is, like, look at the six and seven teams. The Redskins

are reeling. I mean, are they going to win two games to go eight and eight and have an outside shot? I don't think so. Philadelphia is six and seven, but Philadelphia has the Rams this week on the road and the Texans at home. You know, they'll probably be, they could actually be favored over the Texans at home. What does that feel like to you? That feels like a Philly minus one. if they play well against the Rams. Yeah, it really depends on this game. And then they finish with the Redskins, so theoretically they could get to eight, I guess they could,

but they're not going to get to nine. Caroline is not getting to nine. They have the Saints twice. And that leaves Minnesota to falter significantly and allow, let's say, Green Bay in the back door at 8, 7 and 1. But Minnesota would have to lose. they'd have to lose two. They'd have to lose two.

Green Bay's got Chicago on the road at Jets' lines at home. Maybe Green Bay's the team that sneaks in at 8, 7, and 1, and Minnesota caves the rest of the way, and so does Philadelphia, Washington, and Carolina. I mean, look, 8 and 8's a possibility in the NFC. In Green Bay's case, 8, 7 and 1 is a possibility. Believe it or not, Minnesota at 7-8-1, is a possibility. I mean, Philadelphia, if they don't win out,

if they can win two of the final three has a pretty good chance at eight and eight. They do. I think Minnesota will win two of the final three, but then again, the turmoil there is impossible to really speak to from here. All right, what am I buying? What am I selling this week? I'm going to buy some Pittsburgh Steelers stock. All right. It's low right now. They have lost three in a row and really could have very easily been on a four-game losing skid. They are staring no playoffs right in the face right now. Pittsburgh is in deep trouble really because of the next two opponents, right? They've got New England at home and then they're at New Orleans. And New Orleans and the Rams are playing for the number one seed here down the stretch. So they're not taking it easy at all in weeks 16 or 17. I just think that the Steelers are too good, not to win two of these final three. They finish with the Bengals. I think they're going to beat either the Patriots this weekend or at New Orleans.

New Orleans, all of the sudden, has become a little bit more, at least perception-wise, vulnerable. You know, they lose to Dallas scoring 10 points. They've only got three points against the Buccaneers through nearly three quarters of that game. So that may have been the biggest stunner of Sunday with all of the wild stuff that was going on that New Orleans was sitting there down 14 to 3 late in the third quarter against the bucks. It was weird. But I'm buying Pittsburgh Steestock. I think they win two of these final three finish nine, six and one, win the NFC North,

don't miss the playoffs. And then by the way, we'll be really hell low. to deal with in the postseason. You know, as an AFC North champion, they would host the first game, and then they would go to very likely the number one seed, and that could be Kansas City. And I can tell you this, the Steelers can go to Arrowhead and win. They can definitely go to Arrowhead and win. It's Foxborough, where they never really seem to play well.

I kind of like them Sunday against the Patriots. So I'm buying the Steelers. There's so many teams that you can potentially sell here that are obvious, like the Redskins, like the Eagles. I'm going to sell something that's going to shock all of you, but I'm going to sell the Minnesota Vikings. There's something not right there. I don't put it on Kirk. You know I don't. I put some of it on Kirk, but they've got a terrible offensive line, which they've had all year long.

they have now major turmoil turning to Kevin Stefansky as their offensive coordinator Mike Zimmer wants to be balanced the problem is that they are 27th in the league in average yards per carry 30th overall is a rush offense their offensive line just hasn't allowed them

to run the football this year Minnesota really they don't have to win out to make the postseason they have to win two of their final three but none of these three are going to be easy, including the game Sunday at home against the Dolphins, at Detroit won't be easy, and the Bears at home to finish up the year won't be easy, although it's possible, possible that the Bears will be playing for nothing

at that point in the season finale. But there's something wrong with Minnesota, and I know all of you will just say, yeah, that's something wrong is Kirk Cousins. That's not the only thing that's wrong with Minnesota right now. There is a disconnect offensively, because earlier in the year, when Di Filippo got his way and they were throwing the football, they weren't the weakness of the team.

They were the strength of the team offensively. Now the defense has gotten it together, and they've got a championship defense again now that Everson Griffin's returned. But I'm selling Minnesota stock right now. I mean, I'm not selling it at its height, clearly. But I'll buy Pittsburgh. I'll sell Minnesota. Also, Denver really took a crippling loss on Sunday in San Francisco.

They looked like they had a real inside track to the postseason. And if you want to keep your eye on a team, you know, I bought Pittsburgh, but if Pittsburgh were to falter and given Baltimore's schedule of having to play the Chargers on the road, that Ravens-Browns game, believe it or not, could have stakes for both teams. Cleveland plays at Denver this week on Saturday night. Then they have Cincinnati at home to get themselves to 7-7-1. If they're at 7-7-1, they could potentially, it's absolutely in play that they could be playing for a division title in the final week of the season at Baltimore. How about that? They are far from dead in the AFC. All right, thanks to Joe Beninati for joining us on the show today.

Thanks to Scott Allen for joining us on the show today. Thanks to Aaron for producing the show. Tommy will be back tomorrow with me. And then I think Cooley will be on with us on Friday. Have a great day.