The Kevin Sheehan Show - Riffing Rivera

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on the Washington Commanders' first day of mini-camp. They discussed the Terry McLaurin situation, Ron Rivera's statement on Jack Del Rio, and more. Also, the NBA Finals and Strasburg.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify. This, Tommy, this Apple review after giving us five stars from Boomer Sooner, quote, embarrassed to admit that not until a few weeks ago,

my wife and I completed the entire five seasons of the Wire, which debuted 20 years ago on June 2nd, 2002. As a DC expat and brief 980 vet during the CJ Scotland coach B. Mitch and Doc days now residing in the Midwest, the credibility of the podcast was already cemented as a staple among my favorites. But to witness Tommy's cameo in one of the final episodes, I noticed this ironically before his Facebook post today. takes your PC to a maid status. The angle of incorporating the journalistic piece into the show's final season, brilliant.

Keep up the fine work. Kevin, your standard is expert. Cooley and Tommy are vital pieces to your brand. Thanks for being an essential resource for all things. Commanders, D.C. and national sports coverage. That from Boomer Sooner, J.T. I don't, he says that he was a brief. 980 vet.

I'm surprised that he wouldn't have mentioned maybe his name or given me more of a clue. Or maybe I wasn't there yet. Maybe you weren't there. Because CJ, Scott, and Doc and coach were there from pretty much, well, not coach, pretty much the beginning. And B. Mitch came along, long before I did as well. But thank you, Boomer Sooner. And don't forget a rate, a quick five-star rating and a one-to-two-two-season.

sentence review or more like Boomer Sooner did is a huge help for us and it's much appreciated. We've got a lot to get to. Season 5, episode 8, about 10 minutes left of the episode, just for people who want to scroll to the historic two-second appearance of Mr. Lavera. In the Baltimore Sun Newsroom. Yes. Yeah. Which was recreated on a sound.

stage in Columbia, Maryland. Oh, is that where it was? You know, you've told me about this maybe a hundred times, but I don't remember you telling me it was recreated on a Columbia, Maryland soundstage. Okay, so now I know where it was done. I would have just assumed that they came in and shot it at the sun. Nope. Wherever that was. Did not do that. You know, I would say that no less than a half dozen times a year, someone will come up to me and say, I can't believe that you haven't watched the wire, first of all,

which this is my biggest, biggest, you know, missing television show. And I understand that, and I totally trust in everything that everybody said. And I have it at the top of my list to get to. It's a big commitment because it's five seasons. But I would say no less than a half dozen times a year, somebody will come up to me and say, you've really missed on not watching the wire. and, you know, did you know, or somebody will say,

did you know that your boy Tommy was in it? And I always say, no, I had no idea. I had no idea. When was he in it? Even one of my boys, Corbyn, who finished the wire, I don't know, six months ago and then rewatched it recently. He said, yeah, I was just on the episode the other day that Tom was in. So there you go.

You know, I wanted to mention something to you. watched a movie over the weekend with my wife and we had not seen this movie and it was I think the Oscar winner a couple of years ago. I had not seen it. She had not seen it. We watched it together and I thought it was really, really good. A Star is Born. Did you see a Star is born? I'm not talking about the original with Barbara Strasand. I know. I'm talking about the Bradley Cooper. The original goes back. the original goes back to the 30s. Oh, really? I didn't even know that.

Yeah, there's one way before that. It didn't win the Oscar, I don't think. Oh, it didn't. But it was nominated. I don't think it did. Yeah, it was nominated. I think it was overblown. I think it was overblown.

I thought she was tremendous Lady Gaga in it. But he got on my nerve. Bradley Cooper won Best Actor, nominated for... So, eight, I'm sorry, eight nominations, all right? Best Picture, Best Actor, Bradley Cooper, Best Actress, Lady Gaga, Best Supporting Actor, and that was Sam Elliott. Sam Elliott, yeah. The Best Original Song, Shallow.

What did it win? It was a good movie. Yeah. It was a good movie, and I'd watch it again. But I didn't think it was great. I thought it was really good. I really liked it, but I really thought she was great. And I thought he was great, too.

I think he's great in everything. Like, I can't think of anything that Bradley Cooper has done that I haven't thought was great. Silver Linings Playbook for me is his greatest role. But, I mean, it's hard to pick. He's got so many. You know what, Tommy? I think that Bradley Cooper's first movie or breakout role when he became noticeable was wedding crashers. When he played, what's her face?

The Canadian brunette. Rachel McAdams. When he played Rachel McAdams's fiancé and, you know, and he laid out Vince Vaughn in the football game and ended up, you know, going at it with Owen Wilson, and then, you know, at the altar, Vince Vaughn gets revenge by knocking him out. But I think Wedding Crashers might have been his very first movie, or certainly I'm looking it up right now. I think it is.

It was only in four movies before that. And actually maybe three. So, yeah, Wedding Crashers was his, his big coming out party, so to speak. He was great in that. He was phenomenal in Silver Linings' playbook, which I thought was a great movie. He was good. I'm looking through his list of movies.

Obviously, The Hangover. The Hangover, obviously. Yeah. That movie Limit List that he was in. You know what? He was great in. What? He was great in American Hustle.

Great in American Hustle. Which is one of my favorite movies of all time. American hustle. Amy Adams was great in that. Christian Bale was great in that. Yeah. I like that movie too. Did you like Limitless?

Did you ever see Limitless? Yeah, I did. I liked it. Yeah. De Niro was pretty good in that movie. Yeah. Whatever. He's good in almost everything.

I'll tell you the movie I haven't seen yet, and he's in this movie, is Lickrish Pizza. And I don't know if that's, you know, it's a Paul Thomas Anderson movie. I haven't seen that. That actually, it was a Stars Born or Liquorce Pizza that we were going to watch on Saturday night and we chose a Star is Born. Well, I'm a huge Paul Thomas Anderson fan.

I have not watched Liquorce Pizza yet. It's on my list. But speaking of Paul Thomas Anderson, one of his favorite actors passed away. I know. Philip Baker Hall. Right. I mean, he was in like, he was in at least five or six of Anderson's movies. Yes, he was, Mr. Bookman in Seinfeld.

But I want to rank a movie recommendation to you. It's one of Paul Thomas Anderson's first movies, hard eights. It's about gambling. I haven't seen that. It's about hard eight. It's about gambling. It came out in 96 about these, this couple that he took under his wing, in Vegas and kind of like mentor them.

It's tremendous. You would love it. It's one of great Vegas movies of all time. Hard eight. I've honestly, and I know a lot of his movies, obviously, Boogie Nights and there will be blood. I mean, I think there will be, but blood is incredibly underrated. I've heard a lot of people over the years that don't like that movie. I think it's very good. So I know those works The Master was a good movie as well But I'm not familiar with hard-a He did Magnolia

He did Magnolia and Philip Thomas And And And Baker Hall was in that too Yeah Oh Philip Baker Hall yeah But so was Baker yeah Yeah

But hard eight buddy Check it out Hard eight or hard eights Hard eight Okay We've got a lot to get to today Including everything that Ron Rivera said, I want to talk about Terry McClorn, who was not there for minicamp.

Steven Strasbourg, the NBA, let's start with the football team, even though I prefer to start with talking about the game that I watched last night, not about contract negotiations. But I want to read to you, Terry McCorn was not there today. And he's not supposed to be at minicamp for the reporting tomorrow or Thursday either. and that means he's now missed all of the OTA days and all of the mini camp potentially after he said that he would attend a lot of this stuff, even though he wouldn't do on the field activity without a contract extension. I've been thinking a lot about this over the last couple of hours. Not a lot about it, but enough about it because I took calls on this during the show. I think that it's very likely that he's not there and he was.

wasn't at OTAs because he's upset about the way it's going or certainly his agent is upset about the way it's going. Now, I don't know the reasons why he's upset. And again, I'm speculating that he's upset. But he did say that he would attend a lot of this stuff, even though he wouldn't do on the field activity. And he hasn't posted for any of it since those, you know, phase two workouts. So something's not right in the negotiation process.

I don't know if he asked for too much. He asked for Tariq Hill or Devante Adams or DeAndre Hopkins money. And the team said, wait a minute here. We want to take care of you, but you're not those guys. And that upset him or the team lowballed him. And that upset him if he is upset. And I think him not being at these things is an indication that these things have become somewhat contentious. and maybe he's not thrilled right now with the way things are going.

I am a little bit skeptical that the team would have low-balled them. First of all, this isn't the Bruce Allen regime. But secondly, they offered two years ago Amari Cooper north of $20 million a year. Remember, he stayed with the Cowboys five years, $100 million or $20 million a year, but the reporting was Washington had offered more. Washington's already proven that they'll be aggressive if they really want something. You know, Curtis Samuel, William Jackson, the trade attempt for Stafford, the trade attempt for Russell Wilson, the trade for Carson Wentz. So I'm a little bit skeptical that they, you know, came in with a low ball offer.

But the net of it is, I guess I am still very confident. I mean, there's nothing that would lead me to believe other than it's in the best interest of both parties to get a contract extension done. Other than that, it's not like I know anything, but I would still bet that there's a contract extension by Training Camp and that this is just, you know, a distant conversation when we get to training camp that this didn't go quickly and make. maybe not smoothly. But still, I think him not being here is a message that, for whatever reason, his fault, their fault, both of their faults, that he's not thrilled right now with the way things have gone. Well, let's go through a checklist of things here.

And based on your judgment and knowledge, you can answer them. this organization, the odds that they will do the right thing. Is that a statement that I'm supposed to... No, I'm asking you to answer. What are the odds? That they will do the right thing, yeah. Which part of the organization? Doesn't matter. Football.

We'll stick to football. Yeah. I think this group of football decision made. It's certainly not the last group. I would put it at better. That's not what I said. I would put it at better than 50-50. Really?

Yeah. Wow. That's tremendous confidence, Kevin. No, it's not. I didn't say 100%. I didn't say 90. I said it's better than 50-50. It's around 60.

I feel like 60% sure that they would do right by Terry. Okay. Or that they will do right-furt. The next. The next question is, who would have three most important players on the team? Right now? Terry McCorn's one of them. Okay.

John Allen's one. And then really in terms of what you need him to produce based on where he was drafted. Carson Wentz. Chase Young is super important. Oh. No, but you're right. You're right. Carson Wentz is certainly, we're not talking about the best player.

We're talking about the most important players. So the most important players, actually, is a different question. And maybe Terry's not in the top three. Carson Wentz right now would be the most important in terms of, you know, influencing next year's results. I think Chase, you know, a healthy Chase Young is really important. And they're, you know, they have a bunch of receivers. If you trade for, if you trade for, you.

Carson Wentz and you don't have your best receiver in camp. He becomes the third most important guy on the team. I mean, there's no point in the trade. If you don't have Terry McCorn

you know, to throw the ball to. Okay, fine. It's almost... What's your next on your list? What's next on your list? Well, teacher. All that being said, you don't think this is a big deal? They don't have one of their top three most important players report in the minicamp.

And you give them, well, you give them a 60% chance of getting this done right. I would generously give them a 30% chance. I'll give them an 80% chance of getting it done. I'll give them a 60% nod on the process going well for both parties or just past 50-50. I don't even know how to answer your question. Here's what I think.

I think he's going to play for Washington next year with a contract extension, and I would bet big money that that happens. I think they'll get a deal done. I do. And I think a lot of the conversation about Terry McLorn and contract extension and not showing up for OTAs in mini-camp and the contract negotiation, tone, et cetera, will be large. largely forgotten. That's my guess. But I want to get to this because I really want to express

surprise about a part of the conversation involving Terry McClure and this contract extension. When did Terry McCorn become this incredibly important figure in the organization that people have tweeted me, and I've heard it said, I don't think this is an odd ball out there sentiment among the fans that really care. When did he become the breaking point for some of these people? Listen to these tweets, Tommy, that I got from Steve. Kevin, if they don't sign Terry McClorn, I'm done with them. This should be the easiest football decision in years, and they're messing it up. He's the best player and the most exciting player they've had in years. From Manny on Twitter, after I read this Steve thing on the show this morning, I'm with

that guy, Steve. If they don't get scary Terry signed in soon, if they are just trying to save a few bucks on the deal, if they make him feel less important than he is, I'm out. Terry's the best player on the team and the best player they've had in years. Really? I mean, I really like Terry McClorn. I think he's a really good player. I think he was clearly one of the best draft choices they've ever had.

I think he's one of the more talented wide receivers they've had in a long time. I think Deshawn Jackson was certainly damn talented. So is Pierre Garsohn. I mean, Jordan Reed as a receiving tight end was the most talented player they've had in a building in a while. But I think a lot of people, I don't, they're just reaching. They're trying to make this into something that it isn't.

He's not Tariq Hill. He's not Julio Jones, you know, like this big imposing physical specimen of a wider receiver. He's a good player. He's somewhere in, you know, the 10 to 15 range, maybe closer to 10. I don't know. There's a lot of receivers that are on their way up from last year and even the receivers that got drafted this year,

it's a really loaded position in the league. But I don't know. I just, I've heard this so much over the last week or two, and it just seems like a total reach to me. Like the breaking point, you're out because Terry McLaurin's having a protracted, difficult contract negotiation, and they might not end up getting it done. Really?

that's why you're out? You know, I don't understand how you come to these kind of conclusions. Oh, my God. On the one hand, what you're saying is logical. On the other hand, you yourself know that this is a fragile fan base that is not going to react normally and logically to anything this team does. So every little flight is a potential turnoff right now. You've got a

You've got The few fans who are left are standing on a cliff And there's like One inch of space between them And the and the ravine To fall into So it doesn't take much

To push them off I mean Are you hearing what I'm saying? I am hearing what you're saying I mean that he is That it's kind of ridiculous That Terry McClure is your line in the sand Well, of course.

But it should be an indication as to how damage this fan base is that Terry McCorn would be their line in the sand. Maybe I'm surprised. That should tell you. Maybe I'm surprised that anybody's still on the cliff. And there's still people up there considering whether or not to jump. But no, seriously, I know what you're saying. I do. And I don't really do.

disagree with you. I just think it's an overreaction. And maybe it's because many have reached, you know, a tipping point here. You know, the irony of this is there will be somebody, or actually there will be several people that will scream, here's the media again. It's only June 14th, and they're trying to divide Terry McLorn and the head coach and the team over this contract negotiation, when in fact, I think a lot of the outrage is coming from the fans on this one, at least compared to where I am. I'm not outraged by this. I'm certainly not overreacting to Terry McCorn's importance in the organization.

I like Terry a lot. Don't get me wrong. I don't want anybody coming at me saying, you don't want Terry McClearn. I do. And I think they'll sign him, and I think it's the right thing to do. And I think he's a really good player. But anyway. You have to admit, one last thing I want to say on this.

It is a little bit strange that they would trade for a quarterback who they think has so much hope in them and Carson Wentz and not have the Terry McLaren contract resolved pretty much within minutes of that trade. So I think one goes along with the other. If you trade for Carson Wentz and you don't have Terry McLaren to throw to, then what was the point of the trade? Well, I think they have every intention of signing Terry McLaren after trading for Carson Wentz. I think they want Terry McLaren here. I think, you know, this is a very important year. They've raised the expectation levels.

I just think, you know, again, I don't know what the answer is. But if there's a divide right now, it's either that they lowballed him, which I am skeptical about, or Terry's just asked for a number that is in the elite level of receivers right now, and they don't think he's worth that. But anyway, let's get to the Ron Rivera stuff from today because he talked First Amendment. He also talked Second Amendment. More on that, right after these words. from a few of our sponsors.

So Tommy, yesterday on the podcast, I suggested how the press conference today with Ron Rivera should be handled. And I said, I think he should have a prepared statement. And I went through what I thought he should say. He should focus on the fact that the Del Rio situation was bad for business, steer clear of all of the stuff that was in the statement when they announced the $100,000 fine last week. and, you know, show some humility and some self-awareness about the state of the organization and how, you know, tenuous it is with respect to, you know, free speech is free speech, but it's not free of consequence.

And you're an employee in a business that is really, really trying to avoid any further controversies. And Jack created one last week, and that's why we find him. So today, he, first of all, they did the press conference very early this morning at eight. 8 a.m. before they went out and took the field, actually. And he did have an opening statement. So they did actually decide that before he opened it up for questions, he was going to have an opening statement about Del Rio. And he said, I wanted to start this out really just talking about what happened last week. My decision basically concerning what Coach Del Rio said. So just so everybody understands, I've spoken with Jack multiple times about what has happened. What was said,

I told him the decision, I was going to find him $100,000 and we were going to move forward with this. We had a great conversation. We talked again this morning, as in this morning, Tuesday morning. The big understanding, just so everybody understands, this is not the fact that he exercised his right to free speech. This is what impacted the football team, okay? That's what we all have to understand. I believe in the First Amendment very strongly. I stood next to Eric Reed when he took a knee. Eric and I talked about this because I asked Eric, help me understand so that I may be understood, and he did. He showed me what this was really all about, meaning what they were kneeling for. In Jack's case, same thing. But the thing we all have to understand with these rights, these freedoms come with

tremendous responsibility, and we have to understand that as well. And so this is about the impact made on our football team and the distraction that it has become. And it's a very serious question and topic, but at the end of the day, it did impact us. That's what I did, what I did. And then he went on to say, and by the way, Tommy, yesterday when I said one of the reasons I'd give him a prepared statement is I would not want to risk Ron, you know, starting to riff a little bit because Ron can get pretty long-winded. And I didn't want him to end up being a headline today after something that he riffed. So after, as he's going through this prepared statement, I think he started to riff a little bit here. Not that it turned out badly because I don't think it did. But he said,

Jack spoke to the team this morning during the team meeting. He was very open, very forthright, very contrite and apologized and opened himself up to questions or opportunities for any players to come in and meet with him. He's already met with some of our players and talked to some of them about what was said. I've been told those meetings went very well, and so I'm very pleased with that. As we finished, he did the same thing. He said, guys, please, any questions, come see me, let's talk about that. And I thought that was good. Rivera saying I thought, you know, him allowing guys to come and ask him questions was good. It was well received. We'll see. Our intent is to move forward. I'm about reconciliation. I think not just this football team, but this

community. We have to understand that when we do things like this, it impacts the community as well. We got to make sure the community understands that we understand and we get it. That's important. So this was really about taking accountability and holding ourselves accountable and then going forward in trying to reconcile with things. And we're beginning to see it, even in our own nation's capital, we see that the Republicans and Democrats are trying to come together. and reconcile on the second amendment, and we'll see what happens. But that's what this is, and it's very important that we get through it. What Jack and I talked about is between Jack and I.

I'm not going to discuss that, okay? So with that, I'm going forward. I'm moving on. So if there's any questions on football, please feel free to ask. I'm not going to address anything other than football. So they did take my advice on the prepared statement. and not taking any other questions on any of this. I think the first part of it was pretty good,

and I'm not suggesting that the part where he says, I mean, you told me, by the way, before this podcast, he started riffing on the Second Amendment, and I'm like, what are you talking about? Because I hadn't read that part, and I went back and read it. You know, fortunately, he cut it off there, because he may have gone to Roe v. Wade next.

but I wouldn't have brought the Second Amendment into the prepared statement, you know, even though he really didn't say anything inflammatory about the Second Amendment. He said, hey, Republicans and Democrats are trying to come together on this Second Amendment, meaning I think he's, you know, referencing potentially, hopefully,

some level of gun control background checks, red flag laws, you know, assault weapons, or rifles, etc. But anyway, if you had to grade his prepared statement, what would you give it? I give it a B minus. I'll give it an A minus. No, no, no, I'll give it a B plus. He got off script with the Second Amendment stuff.

But I think, for the most part, subject to change, you know, just reading this right now, and I haven't heard it. I haven't heard the tone. I don't know if there are any follow-up questions or any other answers, but I think for the most part, he got out of there unscathed. I mean, there's always going to be a group of people that are going to have any issue. And when you start mentioning First and Second Amendment in your answer, rather than just focusing on, hey, look, he's got the right to speak his mind, but it doesn't come without consequence. and there were consequences last week. It was something that impacted us.

I would have probably steered clear of all the community stuff, but whatever. B-plus. But, yeah, I mean, all you got to do is say the word second amendment, and it's like a third rail these days, you know? So it really doesn't matter how he feels about the Second Amendment. He just said the words. I don't think that, I would hope that that wasn't, none of that was in the way. the prepared statement. I bet it wasn't. I bet you... I'll bet it wasn't either. Yeah, I think...

Okay, now, what do you think the odds are that down the line in the next couple weeks, we see a lengthy interview with Ron with Albert Breer or somebody on a national level because he likes to talk, and we hear more about this, and he potentially sticks right back in the soup again. You're talking about Del Rio or you're talking about Del Rio? Rivera. Rivera. First of all, I think if Del Rio talks again or tweets again and he shut down his Twitter account,

I think he's done. He's not going to talk. He's not going to talk. Well, I think that he's one of these people that sometimes can't help himself. You should know that. Yeah, but he hasn't given it. You should understand that. No, but...

He's only spoken when required to, besides his social media. Okay? He's not, you don't see any interviews with Jack Del Rio out there in the national media. You've seen him with Rivera. He's done a lot of appearances. He likes, and I don't fault him for it because you could

argue it helps the profile of the team. He likes, you know, the attention that he gets on national media. He's well-liked by the national media and admired. And don't be surprised within the next four to six weeks. You see a Rivera interview where he goes off-script and this resurfaces again. Well, depending on who's writing the story, the off-script might be, you know, they may check him and say, whoa, whoa, you don't want to say that. Because we've seen a lot of marketing pieces almost recently. I would be more concerned about Del Rio.

By the way, again, I think they made it very clear to Jack that you create this kind of stir again. That's it. You can do this if you want, but not here. Not with this employer. We can't afford it. Like I said yesterday, and it would have been part of my opening statement where I showed some humility as an organization. We are trying to earn trust back. We're trying to repair the damage

of many, many years, the damage that we've created. And we can't have people. There are organizations that can overcome stuff like this that have the credibility, you know, with their fans and their customers and their business partners. We don't. So you need to understand where you are right now. Not that his comments in New England or Baltimore or Green Bay wouldn't have been newsworthy, but they wouldn't have been as damaging as they are here. And by the way, I'm very aware that many of you listening are like, they didn't damage me at all. I'm not talking about you and your opinions.

I'm talking about the business of the team. And the part that we don't know is whether or not it impacted the relationships he has with his players that he's required to coach and manage. Now, what we have seen for two years is we haven't seen, or what we haven't seen is any indication that any of the players have had any problem to date with Jack's politics and his outspokenness on Twitter over the last two years. Because as we both know, I mean, you nicknamed him Voodoo Jack a year and a half ago. We know that he's been pretty active, you know, at various times over the last two years.

and it doesn't seem to have impacted his ability to, you know, remain, you know, a leader and, I guess, an effective coach in that locker room. I don't think there's been any pushback from the players. There wasn't even from John Allen late last week. And apparently the players who spoke today, that reporter spoke to, they just, they said it was no big deal to them. Okay. They don't pay attention to it. So there you go. Now, that's different from Jason Wright trying to land big deals with corporate sponsors

and with people that are considering buying suites from the ticketing department. And, oh, by the way, not that I think Virginia and D.C. was going to go in any other direction that it went in. But they took the opportunity on Wednesday afternoon to take a nail and drive it into the coffin publicly based on Del Rio's. comments. So look, Rivera admitted that this was not helpful, regardless of whether or not you agree with them. I agree with that. It wasn't helpful, and this team doesn't need that. I would be more concerned that Jack ends up on some sort of, you know, right-wing, you know, conservative social media platform parlor or one of these others, and somehow that ends up becoming news as well. I think he's a guy that looks out and can't help himself.

You may be right. We'll see. You may be right. I just think that the door is open for, I don't think this door is closed. On Rivera, saying something. Yes. Yes. Now, once training camp opens, then you'll be consumed with, everybody will be consumed

with football. But between now and training camp, I just wouldn't be surprised if a national, interview on TV or in print or in, you know, the internet surfaces where Ron Rivera has a few more things to say about this. You're probably right. He probably will do an interview or two. They've got to market the team. They've got to get people interested. They've got a new name. They've got new uniforms. They've got a nine-game home schedule. But in the process of being public, they have to avoid controversy. They have to avoid anything controversial that would divide, that would alienate anybody that is potentially interested. They have to become likable. They've got to kill people

with kindness. You know, season ticket holders, prospective season ticket holders, sponsors, media people. They just have to work on becoming very likable. And that's a hard thing to create from where they are right now. Yes, they have to be nice to everybody. They can't afford to alienate any fans because they don't have that many that they can just have them turn away. Can we get to something really exciting,

the NBA finals? Oh, boy, I can't wait. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Wiggins drive and finishes. Exclamation point from Andrew Wiggins. Yeah, the Warriors beat the Celtics last night, 104 to 94 to take a 3-2 series lead in the NBA finals. Game 6 is Thursday night in Boston. I would bet a lot of money that we have a game 7 on Sunday night. It was the fifth straight game of double-digit margin of victory. We have not yet had one dramatic ending. I thought the third quarter was exciting last night and intense. But, The bottom line is Golden State did something that I really didn't think that they would be able to do, Tommy,

and that is win a game with Steph Curry struggling offensively. Now, I think he played a pretty good game. I actually think the attention paid to him opened it up for everybody else, and I think he made a lot of the right decisions. Oh, my God. Wait a minute. Wait, wait a minute. You just called him a decoy.

Yes. Have you ever heard of Georgia? Jordan being a decoy, LeBron being a decoy, magic being a decoy, come on. You ever heard of John Paxon or Steve Kerr? Okay, let's put Steph Curry in that category then. Well, I mean, Jordan drew the defense and kicked it to Paxon and kicked it to Kerr for the, you know, series clinchers. He didn't take those final shots. No, he didn't.

So yes. To promote To promote Was this your thing today? Was this your thing to come in here as a decoy? Was this the whole decoy thing? Because it's not really a decoy. It's not nothing.

Oh, that's what you said. No, you used the word decoy. Well, I was trying to translate the barble that you were saying and promoting how great he played. I didn't say he played great. I didn't say he played great. I said that. Okay, you said how he said how he.

helped the team. Yeah, well, he definitely helped the team, but he struggled offensively, and I didn't think that they could win a game with him scoring 16 points and going 0 for 9 from behind the three point line. If you had told me that before the game, I would have thought that they would have lost the game by 20. There are reasons that they didn't lose the game by 20, and they won the game by 10. Andrew Wiggins is reason number one. Reason number two is the Celtics two best is Jalen Brown. And even Jason Tatum, Brown was horrendous throughout the game. Tatum ran out of gas and was defended really well. But on Steph Curry, because you had decoy ready to go, I'm sure this is going to be a column you're going to write about how Jordan and all the great players were never

referred to his decoys, and you're the one that just referred to him as a decoy. Although I did hear, I did hear last night, I think Van Gundy or Jackson say he's really, really selfless. And, you know, because for all intents and purposes, he's a decoy. I think I heard somebody say that during the broadcast, but I do. That's okay. Ignore that, Kevin. They don't know anything either. But I think clearly this was not a great night for Steph Curry because Curry's best nights come when he, you know, is seven of 14 from behind the Arkansas scores 43 points. But what I was trying to say to you is, I think that he did a lot of good things last night

that contributed to his team winning. He had eight assists. Oh, absolutely. He actually drew the, I mean, they were doubling him. You saw that they were picking them up in the back court in the first half. Covering him basically from end line to end line and doubling him every single time he touched the ball. He made a tremendous number of right decisions with the ball, rather than trying to force a lot of it, which I think Tatum's done on the other end. He had eight assists. The truth is,

they went nine for 40 from behind the arc, nine for 31 if you take his nine attempts out. And a lot of the misses were passes that he made off of him being doubled. He could have been easily in double digits worth of assists. So, I do think Steph Curry contributed to the win last night. Of course you do. But I don't think, I would have never thought they could have won the game with him scoring what he scored last night. But Andrew Wiggins was phenomenal. He was great last night.

Andrew Wiggins was phenomenal. He had 26 points and 13 rebounds. Right. And playing tremendous defense. Tremendous defense. And you know what? We're fawning over him because he's a unicorn. We don't see the way he played happened much anymore for being an impact player.

26 points and 13 rebounds, playing in the paint, tremendous defense. You don't see that. So that's why we're all hipped up about Andrew Wiggins. Obviously, he had a terrific game. He was remarkable to watch. I'll tell you, at one point, the Celtics lane, it must have had quicksand in it, because nobody in a Celtics uniform would dare step in the lane. It was unbelievable.

Well, many times there wasn't anybody there. You know why no one was there? They were out guarding Steph. There were two people on Steph. I mean, Draymond had... I'll talk about when the Celtics had the ball. Oh, when the Celtics had the ball. I'm sorry.

I thought you said when Wiggins would take off down the lane. No, no, no, no. When the Celtics had the ball, I mean, it was like their lane was made a quicksand. They wouldn't go in it. You look, I mean, it's not hard to figure out what's going to. on here. Some of the stats I read are Starling. Jason Payton has 95 turnovers in a playoff. That's the most ever in a single postseason. Yeah. I didn't see that. That's interesting. The Warriors have, the Warriors scored 22 points off 18 Celtic turnovers. In the series so far,

103. 103 points. That's just somehow remarkable. I know. I mean, it's so sloppy. and just but just keep shucking it up it's hoarse didn't you see what I tweeted to you last night? Just one word horse yeah so you know

turnovers there are you know two ways primarily that the ball gets turned over really really good defense or really sloppy offense in the case of Jalen and Jason Tatum, I think it's more sloppy offense, although they are really guarded hard.

I mean, Wiggins defends well, Thompson. Both of these teams, Tom, are very good defensive teams. Boston in particular is exceptional defensively. They've been the best team in the postseason throughout. But the 18, what was the first turnover stat you gave real quickly? Well, Jason Tatum throughout the whole playoff has 95 turnovers, the most ever in a postseason. Jason Tatum has 95 turnovers in the postseason? That doesn't even seem possible. I'm adding them up right now. 12, 20, 27, 32, 36, 43, 44, 51, 54, 60, 68, 75, 75, 77,

79, 83, 85, 91, 91, 95 turnovers. Oh, my God. I mean, it's so funny. He doesn't even blink an eye, you know? What's so... Doesn't even blink an eye. I said early in the series, I see a guy that's really trying to force it too much, and because of it, they're turnovers.

I'm on this group text with a bunch of friends of mine from high school. We all played basketball together in high school. And somebody said last night, God, man, Tatum, you know, Tatum's really, you know, he's going off on how good Tatum was. I'm like, yeah, but he is such a casual, sloppy passer. Now, a lot of that is he's trying to make the right plays off double teams because he gets doubled a lot too, but he is not great at that. And the other thing, too, is he and Jalen Brown a couple of times during this postseason. The Miami games in particular with the defense that Miami is throwing on them,

they really, I think, have stamina issues. They really run out of gas. And you've seen that with Tatum. His shots in the fourth quarter, he had multiple air balls. Now, he was very well defended, but they didn't hit anything. He was two for six from the foul line last night. Tatum was. And he was short on everything.

And, you know, all you basketball people know, when you are short, you are tired, you know, and he was, you could see he was exhausted and worn out. I thought Golden State played an exceptional defensive game. I'll say again, Curry was off. It's amazing that they won the game with him scoring 16 points and going 0 for 9. But the reason, you know, he's still on the floor for, you know, for, you know, for. close to 40 minutes of the 48 last night is because he's taking all of the defensive attention, making it much easier for the rest of the warriors. Decoy.

Decoy. Dequy. By the way, it's a mallard. Maybe Dave Buss can carve a step. It's a mallard. Maybe Dave Buss can carve a Steph Curry decoy. I thought Clay Thompson was big last night knocking down a lot of big threes at important. I thought

Draymond Green was really good in the first half in particular. There were a couple of other things that I had the 103, the 18 turnovers equaling 22 points in the 103, the most in a quarter century in the first five games of an NBA finals. The 95

turnovers by one player is truly amazing. I had not heard that and I have already highlighted it with my yellow highlighter here on my thing because I want to talk about that on tomorrow's radio show. I thought that the stretch of the game that was crucial was the Celtics came out and Tatum in particular, but everybody, they were on fire in the third

quarter and they turned a 12-point deficit quickly into a four-point lead. And then at the end of the third quarter, Poole hit one of those, you know, 40-foot bank shots like he did in game one, I guess it was, or game two. It was game two that he hit the half-court shot. He's now got essentially almost two half-court shots in the same series. He's no Jerry West, though. And they went on a 13-0-0 run at the end of the third quarter into the fourth quarter, and it never got close after that.

And you saw a Celtics team just wilt in the fourth quarter. And I still think, I still think, I still. think that Boston is the better team. And I thought when they made that run in the third quarter, they were going to win the game. I thought they were going to win the game before last night's game. If I were still betting, and I have not bet since the final four, still have not placed one wager since the final four. I'd be 0 for four in this series. I would be getting absolutely clocked. I've been wrong about every single game. I liked Boston even in game two when they were getting I really liked Boston last night.

Not because of the statistic that they had not lost. They had not lost Tommy on the road following a loss in the postseason, and they did last night for the first time. But I still think they're the better team, and I still think they could win this series in seven games. Like, I think they could go back to San Francisco in win. I'll tell you this, if they shouldn't change the way they played Curry last. night, which was essentially to follow him around a baseline, end line to end line, and double him and step up, not play below screens, not drop coverage, step up, double team every single time he has the ball.

And I would say, let's see if Wiggins can do it again, if Thompson can do it again, and if, oh, by the way, we're going to turn it over 18 times and miss 10 free throws. you know, Boston missed 10 free throws in the game. I still think that they can win this series. You don't care that much, but I'm glad you watched the game last night and had the whole decoy column written coming into the conversation. But what did you see? You like basketball. You love basketball.

Based on the limited amount of finals action you've watched, do you think the series goes to Golden State or Boston? I think it goes to Golden State. But I'm not watching basketball. football. I'm watching horse, but I think it goes to cold. It's not a horse. I don't want to get into, let me ask you one thing about this. I don't want to get into a long philosophical discussion. We'll just do. I'll just make my statement and you give me your feedback, okay? We've all talked about when you, and you're, you've

told me before you're a shooter. You like to shoot the ball, okay? And everyone says when you're a shooter and you're not shooting good, you should keep shooting the ball until you're shooting good. And I contend from shooting well from having played not nearly the organized level of basketball that you have,

but have played my share of competitive rec league basketball is that sometimes the way to get out of a shooting slump is to start changing your game offense, start driving to the basket, start going to. the basket. Start changing your rhythm.

It's like leaving it behind. It's like, you know, putting it aside and then picking it up later on. And why isn't that just as valid as keeping it up until you hit one? Well, I think, well, first of all, I am 100% in lockstep with shooters shoot and the next one's going in, and that's a shooter's mentality, always. But, you know, scorers, which, by the way, Steph Curry is a great scorer, Tommy. You disagree with me on this, but I promise you that Steph Curry, while he is, in my opinion, the greatest shooter in the history of the game, is a great scorer.

The other night, he made seven threes. That equals 21 points. He had 43 points in total. So more than, more points were scored in, you know, as a score. than just a bomber. And I thought last night he did try to get to the rim, but I think he realized that playing the role of decoy was working, that truly taking much of the defense's attention,

and his teammates, which they have not done necessarily throughout the postseason, were playing well. Wiggins was playing well. Clay Thompson was shooting it well. Gary Payton played well. Jordan Poole shot it well. And so he didn't feel the need to, you know, gun it. I mean, he had 22 shot attempts in the game.

Nine from three. I thought he actually, he was hunting it a little bit late when they had the big lead that he wanted a three late. And I think there were like three attempts in the final three or four minutes after they had built a 13 point lead. I don't think he wanted to go. I don't think he wanted his three-point shooting streak to end at a hundred. 133 playoff games. By the way, is that amazing? He's played 133 playoff games. All of them he's made at least one three in. But I think seeing the ball go through the basket is really what gets a guy that's in a slump out of it. Sometimes that comes at the free throw line. I think you can do it just as effectively

if you change your offense during the game and you start driving to the basket and you start making buckets that way. Well, let me just tell you that if you're 0 for 6, you know, then it's going to be a little bit harder to start driving the ball to the basket. And for him really last night, there wasn't a lot of room to operate unless it was in transition. I actually thought that it was interesting that several times in transition off turnovers, he didn't pull up and take the three. He did drive it and then kick it or drive and try to finish at the first. At the first, rim. Every single one of his buckets were two-pointers last night, obviously. But yeah, no, I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily. I think, you know, when you don't have a great shooter, but you've got a

decent shooter and he's not making it, you will say to that person, hey, try to get the ball to the rim, you know, let's stop. It might not be your night tonight, but you never, ever tell a shooter to stop shooting. The next one's going in. And you never want a great shooter. Not an average shooter, but a great shooter to pass on an open look. Or a one-dimensional player, you mean? No, just a great shooter, whether he's one-dimensional or multi-dimensional. Just a great shooter. I mean, if you really think Steph Curry is a one-dimensional player, you really, you're so off. And I think you know you're off.

I know. I know. I have not given them. Yeah. I have not given him enough credit for being a decoy. and I will make that change. By the way, I think he really, in this series and in this postseason, even though they go after him defensively, I think he's really held up for the most part defensively. I think they played great defense. I wanted to mention two other things from the game last night. You know, since you paid attention to the finals for maybe the first time,

you probably saw that Otto Porter was out there. He plays for the Golden State Warriors. Yes, yes, I know. I know. So Otto Porter has started the last couple of games, and then he gets taken out pretty quickly, and Looney comes in, and they played a lot of people last night.

I mean, they had a lot of guys out there because you had Dremont in foul trouble and whatever. Otto Porter, remember when we used to have the conversations about the Wizards, and it was like, oh, God, and I would tell you, he just seems like the sweetest kid, you know, but there's just no killer in him, none.

And it's worse than that when I watch Otto Porter these days. Otto Porter has ability. He can shoot it. He can really shoot it. He is a tough defender. He's a good rebounder. He's a smart player. But watching him in this starters role in particular,

I see a guy that's out there that thinks he doesn't belong out there. I don't see a confident player. I can't tell you how many. He's probably right. He's probably right. But I think he should be more confident. And in a game last night, there was a point last night where Curry and Wiggins were the only offensive players of note on the floor, but Porter was on the floor as well. And Jeff Van Gundy, as part of his analysis, said, I don't know where the points are going to

come from, but he said, Wiggins has to be aggressive because Curry was being draped by Boston. If they're going to score right now with this lineup out there, Wiggins has to be aggressive. And on cue, Wiggins took a pass on the wing, came off a screen, drove it hard to the bucket, scored and got fouled. But it didn't even occur to Van Gundy that Porter could be an option to score. And Otto Porter at various times in his career has been a really good score. You know, I mean, he was always the third leading score with the Beal and Wall teams. But in Chicago, when he got dealt there, he had a couple of big games.

He had a couple of like 40-point games, I think, in Chicago. Otto Porter had multiple 30-point games in Washington. But it's funny, when you go to a really good team and a good organization with kind of, you know, some people who are entrenched as leaders and his, you know, greatest of all time conversation guys, even if they played his decoys last night, you really take a backseat, but the really great players never feel like they have to take a backseat to anybody. And I think Porter throughout his career has been a guy that has never recognized that he's got a lot of ability. He was the third player in the draft picked.

he's never played with a high level of confidence. I hate seeing that. That's what I see when I watch him. I see a guy that just isn't sure of himself. And he should be. I guess that's my only point. Okay. Do you have anything to add to that?

I got nothing to add to a discussion about Otto Porter. It's more about confidence is just everything. And he's still a young person, and so I think of him as a young person. But confidence is everything. It's everything in life, you know, believing in yourself. And every time I watch him, and I've felt this way on and off for so long, I see a guy that just doesn't believe in himself. And because of it, he hasn't gotten the most out of what I think he is.

I think he's got some talent. I think he could have been a consistently really good player throughout his career. and he's always been and seemed happy to have taken a back seat to one, two, three, four players on the floor. The other thing I was going to just mention real quickly from the game last night, did you stay up till the very end of the game? Yeah. I was at Shelly's watching it. Did you see when Draymond Green, they're up 13, there's like three minutes to go,

and he got called for a sixth foul, and he started jumping up and down like a six-year-old who had a toy taken away from him. And Steve Kerr walks out on the floor and says, okay, and challenges the call. You knew, like in live time, and definitely after the first replay, that that was not going to be overturned. I just, I love Dremont as a player. I actually think he's a phenomenal interview. He was on with Scott after the game.

And by the way, he's got the number one sports podcast in America, right now on the Apple charts. Our podcast, by the way, is doing really well, too. We're like top 15, I think, in the football category, where we have kind of remained pretty much on and off for the last many months. But anyway, I just, I hate when these players start screaming and yelling and jumping up and down and telling their coach to challenge something, and then they lose the challenge. They didn't need it. It was the end of the game, and that was probably curse thinking, whatever, we're up 13. But on some level, I was hoping the Celtics made some miraculous run and then won on a controversial play that should have been overturned, and he didn't have the

challenge left because he basically cowtowed to Draymond, who was jumping up and down on the floor like a child. I just, I mean, come on, man, grow up. And the coach has to have the stones to say, sit down, you're wrong, okay, you're out. That was your six foul. They called the foul, there's no way we're going to win this challenge. Oh, by the way, you played great tonight, which he did. Do you want to say anything about Strasbourg?

They were shocked by the news. I was at the ballpark last night. They were really caught off guard by the news that he wasn't feeling right after that start. And look, this is, this is there's no track record of guys

successfully coming back from thoracic outlets. syndrome surgery. So, I mean, a guy who's had a share of injuries now is being faced with being the pioneer, basically, in paving a comeback road from a very difficult surgery, he may be done. I mean, we'll find out they're doing an MRI today. Maybe it's just, you know, but they put them on the IIL. They put them on the injured list.

you know, if it was something small, they wanted to put them on the engine list, and Davey looked really concerned yesterday and really crestfallen at the news. You had Joe Ross in the locker room. Joe Ross and Strasbourg were down in spring training doing all this rehab, and then Joe Ross winds up,

need another Tommy John surgery, and now Strasbourg with this. He may be done. I mean, they're going to retire Ryan Zimmerman's number, this weekend at Nats Park, we may not be too far behind the retiring Steven Strasbourg's number. Yeah, they are retiring Ryan Zimmerman's jersey this weekend. And, you know, I had Jesse Docherty, who covers the team for the post on the radio show this morning. So, you know, I asked him, I said, how much has he actually pitched since signing the deal after the 2019 World Series?

31 in the third innings. That's it. Like eight games, I think. Since signing that seven-year, $245 million deal. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, it really is. And let's not, look, I mean, let's not, for everybody who likes to, you know, have the hindsight,

everybody celebrated when Steven Strassberg would sign to that deal. He was the World Series hero. Yep. Okay. You know, I'm of the philosophy that you don't sign pitchers to long-term deals who aren't your pitchers, but nobody knew Strasbourg better than this team. Okay, so they knew everything that, you know, I don't think they could have predicted this. But I wasn't particularly against him signing him because he was their pitcher,

and they knew him better than anybody. You know, I don't like signing free agent pitchers to astronomical. contracts because, I mean, you really, you didn't live with the pitcher for five or six years. You don't know everything about them. So it's going to be a lot of hindsight about Strasbourg. They made the wrong decision, as it turns out, but nobody knew that at the time. He had had a postseason for the ages, including an incredible game six in the World Series. So you were at the ballpark last night? Yes, I was.

Braves are red hot, right? Good. And you know what's funny? I tweeted something. Like, they had back-to-back home runs at one point, Ozuna and Duval. And it was 6-0. Right. At that point, the Braves.

And I tweeted out that the crowd is going wild because they were. You would have thought you were in Atlanta. We've seen that before. I know that. I know, but we shouldn't just take it for granted. It was, it's still stunning to me that it happens. Literally, when they hit those home runs, the place was in an uproar. So that was, it was late getting started last night.

It was late ending last night. So I was just curious as you were at the ballpark, as you were watching those home runs and hearing those Atlanta fans, is that when you tweeted to me horse? Or is that when you decided that Steph Curry was? was a decoy. When exactly... No, I left. I left after the third inning and headed for Shelly. Oh, you did? Okay. Yeah.

And you got there... Because I know the baseball game was delayed last night because of weather. You thought you caught me, didn't you? Well, you thought you caught me. How much of the game did you watch? You couldn't have watched a lot of the game. The second half, I told you. The whole second half?

Earlier in this conversation yet. The whole second half? and half? Oh my God, I caught you. And here you are struggling trying to get out of the trap. No, I'm just curious. You're like a caged animal. When did you tweet horse?

Well, I was sitting at show. He's watching the game. Okay. Because you had a really good sense of what was going on in the game after coming from the ballpark and talking a lot of people about your next column, about your next column. You thought you trapped me. No.

I just, I just. just know that you just kind of walked in there and saw a couple of three point bombs and saw Curry's stats and said, horse and decoy. First two things that came to your mind and you were sticking with that storyline regardless. I know you. Once you get an idea in your head, you're not moving off it. Yeah, but I don't come from an idea within watching 10 seconds of a game. Listen, buddy, you can be four minutes of a game. Your point I don't deal in bullshit. I don't deal in bullshit. Yeah, you do. You bullshit a lot. No, I don't. Yeah, you do. It's fine.

I don't. You come up with, once you have a really good idea for a column, you roll with it and you're going to make that, you're going to take that square peg and jam it into that round hole until that column's out. Sort of like you're trying to do right now? Kind of, but not really. We're done here, boss. I'm done with you, too. I'll talk to you on Thursday.