The Kevin Sheehan Show - RIP Coach Thompson

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

Kevin reflects on the life and influence of Hall of Fame Coach John Thompson Jr. Then it was Ben Standig/The Athletic with a complete weekend update on the Skins with a few guesses on starters for the opener against the Eagles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right, the show is coming up here in a moment. Ben Standing will be our guests and I'll certainly discuss the passing of Coach Thompson here on the show today as well. Quick word for Wind Donation, the titled sponsor of this podcast today. Wind Donation's got a huge savings opportunity right now, 50% off all style windows plus zero money down, zero payments and zero interest for two full years. Windonation has serviced over 100,000. homeowners, including yours truly and friends and listeners and family members, they're the best. If you've been thinking about Windows, you're crazy not to call Windonation first at 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com. Mention my name. You get a free estimate. That means there's no risk at all. And if you decide to move forward with Window Nation, you'll get 50% off all windows right now with nothing down, no payments, no interest for two full years. 86690 Nation or go online to set up an in-home estimate or a virtual quote at windonation.com and tell them that I sent you.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. Ben Standing will join us in a few minutes. We'll get caught up on everything that happened with the football team over the weekend and get Ben's guesses on the roster as we are now less than two weeks away from opening day. Amazing. Two weeks from today, we'll be doing a recap. of the opening game against the Philadelphia Eagles. I'm going to spend the first part of the show today talking about Coach John Thompson, who passed away last night at the age of 78 years old, a giant in coaching, a giant in life, and such an interesting person and influential person to be around.

And I was lucky enough to be around him for a short period of time when he was working in radio at 980. It wasn't a lot of time that I spent. Guys like Doc Walker and Brian Mitchell and Al Cokin and C.J. Chris Johnson, who produced him for all those years. Chuck Sapienza, who was the program director and also produced coach for a few years there. They spent, you know, every single day and lots of conversations with him. But for the rest of us that worked at the radio station, we were lucky to have been there when he was there. His show for many years followed the show that I did with Tommy in midday.

Tommy and I did the sports fix from 12 to 2, and then coach would come in with Doc and Brian or Al-Oak and Doc, Al-Cocan and Doc, and would follow up that show from 2 to 4. Man, I think about it, a 2-hour radio show. That was it. It was so easy. Three hours is probably the perfect amount of time. Four hours. I've done 4 hours before as well.

That can get a bit long. But back then the lineup, we were, you know, an affiliate of ESPN radio. so we ran Mike and Mike in the morning from 6 to 10, except on Mondays following Redskin Games. I would host Monday morning quarterback with Andy Poland from 6 to 10 during those years. Then Tony's radio show would go 10 to 12, which, by the way, I was a part of that radio show, so I would get in, you know, at about 8, 815 because that show got recorded. Then Tommy and I did our show from 12 to 2.

Then Coach's show followed from 2 to 4. but there was always a hello as he was entering the studio and I was exiting as Tommy and I were exiting. Many times, however, you know, there was a conversation, often a debate, sometimes, you know, a healthy, if not heated argument. And I'm going to share some of those stories with you in a moment, the personal stories that I have. Because on days like today, it's obviously about the person and reflecting on their life. And in this particular case, not only his life, but his brilliant, and very influential coaching career. But you also want some stories interspersed that are personal.

I mean, I had a chance to spend some time and work in the same building with him for, you know, about eight, nine years. And there were several moments in conversations that I will never forget. But, you know, first for those that most of you are familiar with this career, but it really was an amazing, you know, basketball, coaching career. I mean, you know, first of all, he grew up in this area, grew up as a D.C. native, went to Archbishop Carroll in Northeast and participated as a key starter on one of the greatest, if not the greatest high school basketball teams in high school basketball history. I think some of

you know this, but, you know, this city for a long period of time, you know, before it ended up with an NBA team, an NHL team, a Major League Baseball. team and NFL team. You know, when he was in high school and then in college, he went to the, he went to Providence before coming back, before going to the NBA and then coming back and coaching at St. Anthony's first in high school and then taking the Georgetown job in 72. But, you know, the conversations that I've had with my father and, you know, my uncle over the years and my aunt over the years and friends, you know, and, you know, other older people over

the years is, you know, they always remind me that, you know, in the 1950s and 60s in particular, high school basketball was huge in this city. It was front page sports section Washington Post big. You know, there was the football team. There were the senators, but there wasn't an NBA team. Maryland hadn't yet become, you know, what they would become under Lefty-Drasel in the early 70s. Thompson, you know, was first playing in the NBA with the Celtics backing up Russell and winning two championship rings, Red Arbach being one of his all-time influences in life. But high school basketball, basketball in general has always been so big in this city. And I think many of you know that, but not all of you understand that.

It is still to this day one of the top two or three high school basketball areas in the country. There is no doubt about it. Most of you know this for those that don't. Prince George's County has more NBA players from PG County than any other county in the country. They did a documentary on it recently. It's in the water, it was titled. It was a Kevin Durant production company documentary. And it's just been such a phenomenal youth in high school basketball area for so long.

And, you know, with the NBA team having had many more down years than good years, college basketball's always been more popular than the NBA. in this town. Maryland and Georgetown, in particular, having both been national championship teams and, you know, in powerhouses at any given time. And of course, Georgetown came from nowhere with coach building up that program. You know, he played on that Carroll team, the Carroll teams of the late 50s into 1960, I think was his final year in high school. I believe that's right. And they are considered still by those that really know high school basketball. the Archbishop Carroll teams coached by Bob Dwyer in the late 1950s with John Thompson and Monk Maloy and Tom Hoover and George Leftwich and John Austin are considered to be the greatest.

That team is considered it lost one time in three years. It's considered to be the greatest high school team in high school basketball history. and Demathah had a lot of really good teams and, you know, and then in recent years, some of these basketball factory schools, whether it's O'Kill or others, had great teams. But that Carroll team, most people will tell you, was the greatest high school team ever assembled. Big John was a part of that team, went to Providence, played with the Celtics, as I mentioned, and then got into coaching. You know, he had a couple of years there with the Celtics. and won two rings, backed up Bill Russell, who remains to this day and was a good friend of coaches. And then in 1966, he started coaching high school basketball at St. Anthony's in D.C.

and turned them into a power, a local powerhouse. And there was a rivalry with Morgan Wooten in Dematha that was very intense. I can remember doing these lunches with legend shows that Tommy and I did together. We did, I don't know, a dozen to a dozen and a half or so of these shows. We would do it at Mortons on Connecticut Avenue, downtown, sell tickets to it. And I mean, I've got three or four that are the most memorable, certainly doing it with coach. And Tommy wasn't there that day, but I got to sit there for two hours with Coach Thompson. And it was such a thrill, and it was my favorite, you know, among my two or three favorite ones.

I'd have to say it was my favorite, although the lefty one was the most fun. I've ever had. And Gary's was great. And doing it with Wilbon and Jim Palmer and Sonny was phenomenal. Tommy and I loved the lunch with a legend that we did with Sunny,

which was probably only four or five years ago. But anyway, I'll never forget doing one with Morgan Wooten. And when we got done, the next day when I walked out of the studio after the next day's show, there was coach waiting for me. and he MFed me one upside one the other for not knowing some things about Morgan Wooten.

They had a tremendous rivalry. And he kept saying that story he told you about, you know, the game that we were going to play at Howard that got moved to Cole Fieldhouse. That was bullshit. And then he got into, you know, Morgan had claimed that he was one of the first people to figure out that fouling at the end of the game was the only way to get the ball back and making people shoot free throws. And, you know, Coach and Morgan Wooten had a tremendous rivalry, personal rivalry from his days at St. Anthony's.

And I don't know if a Dematha player ever went to Georgetown. I don't know if that's maybe one or two, but not many, if any. But then he went to Georgetown, and he took a team that was 3 and 23 in 1971. and he turned this elite upper-tier academic institution that had had primarily white basketball teams, and John Thompson gets hired and he comes in and he turns this thing around and he turned it around in a hurry. His first two years, he goes 12 and 14, second year he's 500. Okay, so from 3 and 23 to year before he got there, 12 and 14, 13 and 13 and 13. and then he's in the NCAA tournament in the 74-75 season. I mean, amazing.

He, before Georgetown joined the Big East, he was good friends with Dave Gavitt, the founder of the Big East, and obviously Georgetown and John Thompson's presence at that point and the 1979, going into the 7980 season, was paramount to the Big East. The Hoyas had gone to three of five NCAA tournaments. They were winning more than 20 games a year with Coach who had totally, turned that program around with two key early recruits, Craig Shelton and John Babeay Dern from Dunbar. He created that Dunbar connection in D.C. Then he created that Dunbar connection in Baltimore, Bob Wade's teams in Baltimore with, you know, obviously David Wingate and Reggie Williams.

You know, CJ was reminding me of the New Orleans recruiting connection that he had. So many players in that pipeline from Louisiana. But when they joined the Big East and they, he has a founding member, of the Big East, the Big East became just an incredible brand in sports. You know, college basketball was in its heydays in the 80s. And the Big East, it was the ACC and the Big East. I mean, the Big Ten was good. Don't get me wrong, had great years. But it was, you know, the battle.

Who's better? The Big East this year or the ACC this year? And, you know, in this area, we had the ACC with Maryland and Lefty-Drazel, and then eventually Gary Williams, and Georgetown had John Thompson. And it was the two leagues, you know, it was wild because D.C. was the only market, really, for, you know, the years that John Thompson was in the Big East that had both a Big East and an ACC program at the height. You could argue the height of college basketball was the 80s. I mean, the popularity of the sport was really, you know, almost second to the NFL, you know, at that point. It was massive. The tournament became a must-watch event, but college basketball and the regular season was super popular. And Georgetown became, you know, really when they recruited Patrick Ewing prior to the 81-82 season and then went to the finals three out of four years that Patrick was there, winning a national championship in 1984.

Georgetown became pretty much the brand. You know, I mean, there was North Carolina in Duke, in Kansas, in UCLA, and Kentucky, and then there was Georgetown. And Georgetown was, you know, Coach Thompson. I mean, there are very few universities with sports programs where you say one person's responsible for why most people know about that university. And that's Georgetown and John Thompson. Now, everybody, a lot of people, obviously, knew of Georgetown as the incredible academic institution in D.C. But John Thompson made Georgetown a household name for so many more. and became really the most famous and most important person in the, you know, in the promotion of that

university. And it became, you know, a very anti-establishment, almost counterculture brand. But it was, but it had tremendous crossover. It wasn't just African Americans or black, you know, young black people that love Georgetown. I had so many friends that loved Georgetown that were white. They were rough and tumble, the teams that he coached at Georgetown. It's so I hated Georgetown as a born and raised Maryland fan in a Maryland family. You know, and if you were hardcore Maryland, it was tough to root for Georgetown. It was a rivalry even though they didn't play for 13 years during 1980 to 1993 because of this tremendous, you know, rivalry between, even though there was respect between Lefty-Drusel and John Thompson.

but I couldn't stand Georgetown. Maryland was pretty much the heavyweight program through the 70s and then into the early 80s. And then Georgetown beat Maryland in the Sweet 16 at the spectrum in 1980 in Philadelphia. And it was part of a year in which they played twice and Georgetown won twice. And then Georgetown stopped playing Maryland. And lefty had played John all the way up until that point. I had always given them the opportunity to play them. Maryland was the heavyweight in the 70s in this area.

Maryland was a top 10 program in the 70s. And Georgetown beat him in the Sweet 16 after a game early that year at the Armory against Maryland, a game that's very famous for Lefty and John getting into a verbal altercation at the scores table where they MFed each other. And that was it. That series ended on that night at the Armory. Georgetown won the game. Buck Williams didn't play in the game, but what happened was the NCAA tournament later that spring seated Maryland 2nd and Georgetown 3rd in the Eastern region, and they played in a

Sweet 16 game in one of the most hyped local sporting events. If you were alive or around for that, you'll remember the buildup from the weekend until the Sweet 16 game, which was either on a Thursday or Friday night was tremendous locally. Maryland was the favorite. Most people thought they were the higher-seated team. Most people thought, well, that early game that they lost Georgetown, Buck Williams didn't play in it. But Georgetown won the game and really won the game handily. And that year, they went on, ironically, their next game was in a lead eight game against Lute Olson who just passed away the other day. Lute Olson was coaching Iowa at the time, and Iowa beat Georgetown by a point in the Elite 8 game in the 1980 Elite 8.

And then, you know, then it was two years later. Patrick arrives and Georgetown ends up winning the national championship in 84, losing to North Carolina in 82 on a shot by Michael Jordan as a freshman in the Superdome. And then they lost that famous game where Villanova shot 77% from the floor, you know, like 90% in the second half and shocked Georgetown in that, in that 1985 final, 6664. What's really interesting, and I mentioned I didn't like Georgetown as a Maryland fan in the 80s, but I loved watching them play. And I loved the physical play of the Big East. And Georgetown and John Thompson did something that very few teams were doing, but nobody did what they did the way they did it. They full court pressed you, and they were physical, and they were swarming, and they were relentless, and teams weren't used to that. And they had talent. and they had waves of defensive players, coach, you know, recruited great defense. He'd put, you know, long-arm guys like Billy Martin on the inbound pass,

and then the ball would come in, and they'd swarm it and pressure it, and they would kill people. I mean, you know, he made a comment once CJ was telling me on the radio this morning, and I don't remember this comment, but he made a comment that basically the intimidation factor of them defensively with their pressure was basically a five-point lead to beginning game. Now, I think, you know, and I mentioned this earlier in the morning, I think the reason Villanova beat him in the 85 final is because, you know, the teams that got used to Georgetown style, the Big East teams, you know, I don't think anybody else in the country, but a Big East team beats Georgetown in 85. You know, they were used to it. They knew what was coming. They had played against it. You know, St. Johns was in that final four, too. Georgetown beat St. Johns in the semis and then beat Villanova in the finals. and then lost to Villanova in the final. But the style of play and the intimidation factor in their play

created an incredible brand. There was the Hoya Paranoia thing where they were really difficult with the media. Big John was not media friendly, but those that he had a relationship with in the media, we're talking, and I'm listening to a lot of the stories that various people like Stephen A. Smith and Michael Wilbon and others are telling. And, you know, those that he had a relationship with, he was fine.

But, you know, you talk about guarded, you talk about secretive, you talk about not giving away anything competitively. I mean, that was Georgetown basketball. And he was just an incredible figure overseeing that program. 26 and a half seasons, he retired early in the 98-99 season. 596 wins, 20 times out of 26 seasons. full seasons in the tournament. All right.

Went to the final four, three times lost two NCAA finals after being in three actual finals. He went to the Elite 8, you know, in that 80 year, lost to Ludolson. They lost in 87 to, was that the Providence team? I think that was the Providence team in 87. And then in 89, lost to Shoshchevsky and Duke in the Elite 8. and then got to the Elite 8 and 95-96 with Iverson. They, you know, so he was, I mean, Georgetown was just, you know, every year and year out, you know,

a threat to go deep into the tournament. Even in the six years where he wasn't in the NCAA tournament, four of those years were the NIT, and two of those were the NIT when the NIT was a big deal in the 70s. But what a career coaching. But I think the thing about coaching, Thompson as a coach and you're hearing a lot of that today is just the relationships and the mentoring and the educating and the taking care of and making these players after he promised those

parents he would take care of him, making them his responsibility and the graduation rate through the roof at Georgetown for his players and the opportunities that he gave these players. And just all of the various videos and shots, so many with his arm, you know, draped around one of his players, whether it was Alan Iverson or Patrick Ewing or Alonzo Morning, or famously a Fred Brown after Fred Brown in the 82 title game against North Carolina against his very close friend, Dean Smith. He coached with Dean Smith on the 76 Olympic team. He was Dean Smith's assistant coach. He and Dean were very tight. And Dean Smith got his first title against Georgetown after Jordan hit that shot with 16 seconds to go. And then Georgetown comes

up and Fred Brown's the point guard. And, the peripheral, in his periphery, he picks up a body, he thought it was a Georgetown player, goes to throw it to him, it's James Worthy, and the game is over, and Georgetown loses, and he's got his arm around Fred Brown comforting him in that moment. And then, of course, when they won it, there was a massive hug between Fred Brown and John Thompson two years later. You know, coaching at Georgetown, you know, he was the king of giving people second chances. Alan Iverson, Michael Graham, the list goes on and on and on.

He really believed in second chances for players. And it was, he knew. He had a way of communicating and relating to and was so smart and so thoughtful, but also so empathetic. You know, I'll share some personal stories here with you. a moment. But I think one of the things that, I think one of the things that was so important about him was that he was just a tremendous leader. And leaders have this gift of being able to communicate. And there was no doubt that he was a phenomenal communicator. He was a charismatic communicator in so many ways. You know, he was larger than life at six foot 10, but had this,

you know, very warm way about him. But also when he got to... angry. There was a lot of, there was no mistaking what he was, but, you know, how he felt. But he was a great communicator. He had rules and he very much lived by the law of sort of dictatorship. Like, that was him, you know, he was, he very much, you know, sort of fancied himself to be a dictator. That was his management style. But with that said, he had, you know, great empathy, which is so important in a great leader. He had that in spades. He really did. It was great to be around them. It really was. And I'll share a couple of personal stories with you here in a moment. After I tell you about my bookie, my bookie right now is gearing up for football season, but you don't have to

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excitement to the sports you love and the games you bet. From live betting to championship futures, every play you want to make is waiting at my bookie. It's simple. Make your picks, win big, collector cash. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. Even if you've already got a place in which you're wagering, if you're looking for a second place, right now you can't beat the offer, right? They're going to double your first deposit up to $1,000 if you use my promo code, Kevin D.C. All right, a few personal stories that I want to share with you. I, you know, the guys that you really want to hear from on a day like today are Doc Walker and Brian Mitchell and Al Koken and CJ who was on the radio show.

The guys that really, CJ is almost a family member with the Thompson's, but they really had the day to day. I was just lucky enough to sort of be there in the same building with him every day. But I think, you know, one of the things that I, I think I connected with him on is, I think he always appreciated that I wasn't, you know, making it as if I was something I wasn't when it came to being a college basketball fan. I made it very clear, you know, I didn't, I wasn't a Georgetown fan. I'm still to this day, not a Georgetown fan. I'm a John Thompson fan, but it took me a while to get there.

But I was a Maryland fan, and I remember one of the first conversations we had, he was. He just said to me, he said, I know who you root for, and you made it very, very clear, we are on opposite sides. And he just smiled, and he said, no, I love your passion for it. And I'm glad you're not bullshit and trying to bullshit me. And I said, well, I wouldn't do that. I said, I love the way your teams played, but I was not a fan of Georgetown. And he said, and I wasn't a fan of Maryland or the ACC.

Because you have to remember, the ACC was the Blue Blood Conference. The Big East was the upstart. It was hard for them, you know, early on to get traction. And in the market, Maryland, by virtue of, first of all, lefty building a power before John had built a power at Georgetown, but really just the numbers alone, Maryland's got, you know, 30,000 undergrad. And a lot of those alums are still in the area. And Georgetown's alum base is all over the country and all over the world

and didn't come from here necessarily. And, you know, I think there was always that battle, you know, but coach always said, I'm not building a local problem. I'm building a national program, but I remember a couple of specific things about coach. I mean, we got into several, we had a bullpen area outside of the main studio where we would all, you know, many times hang out and bullshit and eat and whatever. And many times he and I would have a conversation there. Occasionally it would happen in the studio, but usually it was out in the bullpen. And I remember I did one of my rants on, you know, Maryland should be playing Georgetown every year.

It's a rivalry that, you know, should be played, not played. And I made all of my points on why it should be played. And I walked out of the studio and he just looked at him. He said, you're wrong. And I said, why am I wrong? And he said, when we played that game in 1993 at U.S. Air Arena, which was the first time in 13 years that Maryland and Georgetown played, It was a game that Russ Potts, the big promoter, put together, the made-for-television game. The day after the morning after Thanksgiving, actually, on a Friday in November,

it was Gary Williams' first big win at Maryland. They won on a Dwayne Simkin shot in overtime, and I was there. I was there with Scott, Van Pelt, my brother, and a few others, I think it was. I will never forget that day. It was one of the most exciting wins for Maryland, because it had been several years since they were really in the limelight. You know, they're coming off probation, the whole thing. And he said, when we played that game,

he said it wasn't even sold out. And that was the basis for him saying that it wasn't worth it. There wasn't, you know, as big of a market for Maryland Georgetown every year as I thought there was. And I said, coach, I said, that game was played at an, you know, the day after Thanksgiving, at 11 a.m. in the morning, Maryland was coming off probation. a year in which they went two and 14 in the ACC. Now, it was Joe Smith and Keith Booth's first game. Nobody knew what Joe Smith was going to become. And it wasn't sold out. That's true. But the

Capitol Center held 19,035, something like that. And there were about 17,900. You know, it was like maybe 1,400 or something like that, 1100 short of a sellout. And I said, and that was on a Friday morning at 11 a.m. I said, don't tell me that if this game isn't played on a Saturday night, you know, the Saturday where Army plays Navy in college football in early December and play it one year, Cole and play it one year down at Verizon Center, we won't, you split the tickets if you want to, but it's sold out every year, and it's a national TV deal, and he said, you could tell he never wanted that game. Remember the way he scheduled early in the year when he was the coach, you know, St. Leo's and St. Francis and Hawaii Hilo and all those, you know, that that non-conference schedule that used to get mocked.

But I remember that. He loved very often my takes on Mondays after Skins games. But he also, you know, he would also make fun of me for all of the clock management stuff when I would get, you know, knee deep into the minutia of, you know, a Jay Gruden clock management gaff. and he would just, I'll never forget when he said to me, he says, and trust me, this was a term of endearment, but he would refer to, you know, people at times as MFers. He would say it, you know, you're a motherfucker, motherfucker, and I'll never forget, said MFer, you'd crumble under the pressure. If you, you know, you got the answers right now, it's easy, but if you were on that sideline and we laughed and laughed and I said, no, I don't think so. I think I'd do it, and Doc was laughing. But anyway, he loved that I was a coach, because he would say to me every once in a while,

he would say, the reason I love listening to you and not some of the others is because you're out there doing it. I remember he would say that. You're out there coaching. You know what you're talking about. I mentioned the lunch with a legend that we did with him. That was a thrill, But the biggest thrill for me came outside of the studios where we did have many, you know, debates and discussions in that bullpen. But I'll never forget, I was coaching, I think it was my younger son's team. And we were coaching at the old Silver Spring Boys and Girls Club in Silver Spring, right out there off Forest Glen Road, off the Beltway.

And that was a great place. some of you may remember it. Really competitive weekend, fall basketball league, fall in spring, actually. It was a supplement to winter. And those that were playing high-level AAU would leave in the spring sometimes, but would be back there with another team. And we played in the fall definitely Saturday morning, Sunday mornings. It was just a great atmosphere.

You know, hamburgers and hot dogs being cooked early in the morning. and a small gym, but a small set of stands to sit in. And I'll never forget one of those mornings. And it turned out that I probably coached a couple of times with him. But the first time with him there, but the first time, it was probably like a Saturday or Sunday morning in the fall. And we're out there. And the team I'm coaching.

We're going through warm-ups. And then I see coach walk into the building. and I was in a discussion with somebody, and I didn't have a chance to go over and say hello to him, and then I realized that he was there to see his son Ronnie's kid play. Ronnie had a son who, good athlete, and at that point Ronnie's son, I think was like a year younger, but was playing up on a team. And anyway, the game starts. We get to halftime, and I do remember what happened in that game. We won the game, I think, pretty handily. and we're at halftime and I'm sitting there.

I've got the kids around me and my son says, Dad, Coach Thompson's walking this way and I look and he's starting to walk across the court and I stop and I start to walk to him and he gives me a big hug at mid court like it's half time and he just said, you do know what you're doing. And I said, well, barely. And he said, no, he said, you guys are impressive and we talked. We talked for a little bit, and we had the best time. And afterwards, I walked over there, and he was with, you know, some family members.

And, you know, that was his grandson that he'd come to see play. And I'll never forget sitting with him for, you know, 15, 20 minutes and having a conversation with him and his family. He was really, I can't tell you what an interesting, thoughtful, kind person he was. Now, when he got upset, you knew it, but it was never, ever truly mean-spirited. Now, I didn't play for him, so I can only imagine what it was like to play for him. But I just, you know, growing up and being a teenager and being in college in the 80s and being a Maryland guy and not liking Georgetown, I just, I didn't know what I was in for because he just couldn't have been a more pleasant, thoughtful human being.

And, you know, in recent years, I would get, not in the last year or two, but I got occasional texts from him during shows if he was listening and he would say, you know, you were right about that or, you know, you forgot this or whatever. I mean, it wasn't a lot. It probably happened a half dozen times, but not in the last two years. I think he just hasn't been well. I do remember him reaching out to him. reaching out to me because I ripped Gruden.

If you recall, remember when Gruden totally threw RG3 under the bus in 2013, or 2014 his first year coaching the skins, and it was that NFL.com piece, and he just did something that was almost unprecedented with a head coach, you know, completely calling out his quarterback in public. And I remember saying at the time, I said, this is not what you do. This is handled privately. And I remember coach specifically saying, texting me or calling me and saying, what you said about Gruden's 100% right.

You do not do that. You do not do what Gruden did. That doesn't make Gruden look good. And no matter how frustrated he is with the player, that's handled in private. But I really liked him. I really liked coach. You know, if he MFed you, it was a sign of affection always. So I was very honored to have been MFed by him, you know, once or 15 times, always made me feel good.

He did. It was at least a dozen, you know, half dozen to a dozen times over those years. He had these sayings, you know, idioms of sort, I guess you would say, that, you know, when people have these go-to sayings, they, that are really interesting and are true, you know, you remember them, you know, and you repeat them yourself verbatim. I remember several of them. My favorite of his was, and I forget, you know, who he was talking about at the time. You know, could have been a number of athletes.

But he always said he'd rather tame a fool than have to resurrect a corpse. And it was that way of expressing that you'd rather have somebody. who's crazy competitive and is hard to manage than the kid that's got talent that, you know, is, uh, it doesn't love it, you know, and isn't super competitive. He'd rather have the crazy competitor that he can then try to rein in, you know, then try to coach up as he called him a corpse. Um, he always had that saying fattening frogs for snakes, which he, you know, was really his way of saying, you know, a lot of times snakes will start, you know, setting people up playing possum to use one of Tommy's favorite descriptions.

I'll never forget this, too. He was talking about Jay Gruden. It was a Gruden thing. And Gruden was, had a run of a couple of games where each week he was saying, it's my responsibility that we were so bad. It was my responsibility to this. We should have done that. That's my fault.

And I remember him on, you know, coming on somebody show, it may have been Doc show, because Gruden was coaching after he had left radio. and he said the following. He said, you know, I was listening to Gruden and he said, I'd give him some advice. My advice would be, you better not admit too much that you're not getting the job done. You shouldn't admit too much that it's your fault because at some point they might start to believe you, as in management, you know, might start to believe you. And I thought, I thought, wow, that's really interesting because if you take the blame too much, and you don't turn it around, they'll say, well, you're the one.

We're firing you because you're the one that said you weren't getting the job done. Ah, man, you know, he would always refer. I loved how, you know, he would sort of fatten frogs for snakes acting like he didn't know a lot about football or some other sports. When he did know a lot, and he would say, I'm just Joe the fan. But I think certainly many of us really have missed him since he left this station. I think the last time I saw him was the WCAC playoffs at AU a few years back. I went up and sat with him for a little bit and said hello. But he'll be missed.

He really will. Somebody sent me this morning, and I do remember this. In fact, I'd forgotten about it for the radio show. Somebody sent me a link on YouTube to him coming in and interrupting my radio show, which was the show right before his last radio show. And I was doing that show. I'm pretty sure by myself, Tommy may have been there,

but Tommy's not in the video. It wouldn't surprise me if maybe Tommy had the day off or it was vacation or something, I don't know. Or maybe Tommy was sitting across and the YouTube video just didn't pick it up. But Coach came in and interrupted me as I was saying, like, I was getting ready to throw it to his show,

and it was going to be his last radio show, which was in 2012. It was in 2012, pretty sure. And there's a YouTube video of him. I don't know who took it. Maybe it was Sapienza or somebody took it. He walked in and as I was sitting there talking about him on the air, he was obviously listening to it in the bullpen and he walks in and he interrupts me.

And I'll see if I can, it got sent to me earlier and I'll see if I can just tweet it out. And I'll do that maybe later on today. But I'll never forget that day because I had been talking about him and he comes in, he interrupts me, we've got some laughs. I remember saying to him and remember a big part of what I was saying was that he was really going to miss the forum of talk radio because he was good at it. Long form talk radio, you know, really works for those that, you know, are curious, are thoughtful. He was great at it. You know, he would have been so good during the last three months, during, you know, everything that's been going on in the world.

I mean, the last seven months, actually, six, seven months. You know, I bet, and by the way, I would bet some of his answers and some of his reactions and some of his thoughts would have surprised some of you because I think that he was not always totally predictable in a lot of the way he thought. But he'll be missed. And, you know, again, Doc. and Brian and CJ and Al Koken, the guys that worked with him in broadcasting, and I'm talking about the broadcasting group, the 980 group.

They really, you know, they spent every day with coach. You know, I was just on the outside, but he was influential. It had an impact. It did on me. I was lucky and, you know, I would assume others that were in the building, you know, felt, you know the presence. He was a larger than life figure. Very kind, really smart and thoughtful, and he'll be missed. Anyway, he was always kind to me. Rest and peace, coach. Anyway, quick spot here, and then we'll get to Ben Standing. Our sponsor right now is Manscaped. They've got

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I'm a subscriber to the athletic. I've mentioned this many times before. I urge all of you to do the same. You can do so right now for a significant discount up front. But it's totally worth it, especially with football season approaching. Two weeks from today, Ben, we will be talking about the opener. And right now, I mean, anything can happen in 13 days, but I feel pretty comfortable that the NFL is going for this thing.

and that we're going to have games. And we may get to December or the end of December or the end of regular season and have some teams that were, you know, forced to forfeit a game or two. But it feels pretty good right now like we're heading towards an NFL season, doesn't it? It does. I mean, having been out at the park the last couple of weeks watching them, you know, go through training camp. And, you know, at first it's all kind of weird while the reporters are all standing on the sidelines and masks.

And every day we walk in there, we get a temperature check. think you're constantly, it's, you know, reminded of what we're dealing with, but at the same point, it felt, you know, all things else consider it relatively normal,

and the other has been, you know, no real sign of any, of any issue. And, again, you said, across the league, it's largely been pretty good.

So, yeah, I mean, you know, kudos to everybody for, you know, being responsible. I guess it's nothing else right now in terms of,

uh, avoiding, you know, the situations we're all supposed to be avoiding. And, you know, so far, so good,

you know, I've been proud of that. Yeah, I mean, I've been in some of the reports that the NFL's put out about, you know, all of the tests and the negative tests. And, you know, they just started hitting a few weeks, you know, a week, week and a half ago. They haven't traveled yet. They haven't played another team. So we got a long way to go. But I feel like, you know, as we approach football season, and you and I are huge basketball fans.

And I know you've been watching the NBA as well. And I'm actually really into it. And thankfully, they started to play these games again. I actually think the platform for them playing games is much better than one in which they're not. But football season is, you know, the season, the sports part of the calendar where if it, you know, if you don't have games, things really won't seem normal. So, you know, I think we're heading in that direction. I do want to get your thoughts on Georgetown and we'll do that on John Thompson here in a little bit.

But catch everybody up to speed. I'll be honest with you over the weekend. I was paying attention here and there. The team has that practice today at FedEx Field, which was postponed last week because of the events in Wisconsin. Catch everybody up to speed. We know that Alex Smith was cleared. What were the big stories from over the weekend?

Oh, boy. You know, it's funny. Every day feels like a year in this whole environment. I'm trying to remember what the heck happened yesterday. What happened yesterday. You know, I think So for Saturdays, or sorry, Sunday's practice was effectively the most

It wasn't much different than a few other ones, but it was the last like full-blown practice. It appears that we'll see. And, you know, I think he saw, you know, some of the strengths and weaknesses of this group. The defensive line, you know, has just been collectively the best part of camp so far. Jake Young obviously missed some games earlier on with the hip injury.

He had a tackle on Adrian Peterson yesterday, kind of bolting across the line of scrimmage from the left end spot to get Peterson running up the middle, just completely engulfed him. I mean, you don't really see Adrian Peterson get taken down by one defensive lineman very often. And that's just one play was a sort of a quick snapshot of what could be going on here with Keith Young this year.

And meanwhile, Montes-West wet's been in the backfield. Plenty, Duran Payne has looked very impressive. John Allen did hurt his knee yesterday. We don't have any indications, or yesterday. We don't have any indication what to deal with that is. It seemed to be not too much pain, but we'll see what we'll see about that. But beyond that, I mean, the defensive line has looked great, which is obviously, it's one thing to say that will look good.

And also, it's worth noting they're going up against the subpar offensive line that has big questions on the left side right now. But they did their part. They looked impressive. That, to me, you know, really, really stood out. And then, you know, from there, you know, there's some individual players here and there the Troy Apkey story. Like we were all, reporters were joking yesterday,

that Troy Apkey was probably the MVP of camp. What would the vaguest odds have been on that, like off the board? Like, not even, you couldn't even make that bet. It was so bizarre, but he, you know, he's been a factor. He's been a hitter out there. You know, he's basically started, I think, almost every single practice at free safety when we all thought there would be a more of a legit competition

with Sean Davis. That hasn't happened at all. On the offensive side, you know, look, I mean, Wayne Askins, is, to my eyes, still up and down. He has had some throws that you're like, that is exactly why he was the first round pick. Strong arm, accurate, sharp, you know, where it needs to go.

He had a few through a ball to, I want to say with the untrell in-man yesterday in the back of the end zone. I thought it was high when he threw it, and it turned out to be just an absolutely perfect dart to a tall receiver over smaller corners in the back of the end zone. But then there are other throws that you're just like, wow, where was that going? What will he think?

He still seems to me to have his issues with progression where the ball is sort of hanging his hand a bit much, even when these rushers are not going to hit him. You know, they're not running at him, but not like crazy. And so I still have questions. So it's definitely a Jekyll-Hyde situation. We all also get he doesn't have a ton of weapons, proven weapons at least. So, you know, I think the things to me are still up in the air with him,

but at least, you know, we're seeing some good things. I mean, I think those are some of the highlights. You mentioned to Alex Smith. on the day we weren't there Saturday, he did 11 on 11 non-contact, but that was another step. So, you know, that's going to be a major story this week, obviously, with the 53-man roster closing in, does he, you know, what do they do there? But, yeah, I mean, those are probably some of the bigger stories

to come out over the last few days and kind of really just all camp. I mean, it was another big headline on Saturday when he took the 11-on-11 work. And, you know, it's been a headline every single time he's, taken an additional step towards playing again. Did this one get him a lot closer to playing? Like, are you believing it any more than you did prior to Saturday? Or is the fact that this was no pads, no contact, that the real indication will be if he's participating in 11 on 11 and dropping back with the ability to either, you know, be contacted or even have somebody roll up on him? Yeah, look, I mean, you and I've talked about this on and all there, and it looks like, I don't, in my mind, I still cannot comprehend how after everything we saw in the back to manner and just everything else, how he gets cleared to take contact.

I just, I don't know how to rationalize it, but here we are. Every day he takes more and more steps. Obviously, you would help to think that the team is not looking to put it in harm in the way, and, you know, they're going to have to get to a point where they think he can do it. So I've given up doubting that he can do it. I just still question whether it happens. I mean, if I have to guess right now, my thought would be he makes the 53, but they put him on IR after the first day, which means what? He can come back in six weeks, I think.

Do that, then gives him more time versus putting him on IR before the season, and then he's out. So that would be my guess right now and to buy some more time. I hate being this like uncertain, but this is beyond my comprehension because it's all about a medical stuff. So it is just wildly impressive that he's even keeping this close and the fact that they keep letting him move forward. So it's positive, but I remain skeptical solely based on my incredibly non-medical

that just looks at it to think how on earth is it possible? So real quickly on a couple of the things, I agree with you. you know, every time I see him take, you know, a step even if the step on Saturday was a small step, I start to wonder, could I have just completely misplayed this, or not misplated it, but misinterpreted all of this. But I haven't seen anything yet to change my mind, my mind being that I'd be very surprised if he ever took a legitimate snap in a real game for this football team. anyway. Let's go back to defensively. What was the John Allen injury? It appears to not be of concern,

but what was the injury? Yeah, just on one play we look over. He's on the ground. You know, grabbing at his legs. He later, you know, he needed to help off the field. They later put a, you know, some sort of a brace, looked back on his knee. You know, he was sitting, he sat on the sidelines, though, for the rest of the practice. He did stand with the teammates at some point. It seemed to be smiling a little bit. You know, it didn't seem like he was, you know, riot like that and you know sometimes the injury is leading it first but you know it looked to be okay uh seran pain seemed to say that he talked to the island afterwards and thought with things are okay so you know i don't know if it's a day-to-day thing maybe they hold them out and told the opener i don't

i literally have no idea so we'll have to see Rivera pretty tight with the medical updates especially at this point in the year when you don't know we have to say anything so we'll see about that but it appeared to be nothing overly serious, but how long he's actually out, you know, to be determined of them, obviously, you know, it's worth noting they have very good depth on the line, but they already did lose Caleb Brantley. He opted out because of the COVID circumstance.

So in terms of defensive tackles, like, you know, they don't really have an, their extra depth in my brain is more on the end. You know, maybe Ryan P. could fill in, but, you know, like, you know, like they don't have a ton of depth. there, but before they have, him and Ida's pain and settle were very good. So you don't need depth beyond that, but only in the case of if he's out for a while. And you mentioned Chase Young, Duran Payne, and I'm looking for the quote, so I'll paraphrase, I can't find it, but he basically said something like, you know, he's looking forward to Chase Young tearing up this league as much

as anybody is. So I'm assuming that Young in his limited participation because he was slowed to or slow to start has impressed all of the veteran players. Yeah, for sure. You know, it's funny, like, where we're out there watching these things, I'm so used to being able to, you know, pause and rewind on TV, and then you forget, oh, wait, this is real life. I can't actually do that. So, you know, we can't see everything if you want to watch different positions.

You can't always watch everything. But his, when you watch him and when the, you know, when you're watching the ball in the amount of time, you know, he's really just sort of standing out. he had some really some of some splash plays even in like some one-on-one drills working against the linemen

you could just see all the reasons why people are incredibly excited about what he can do and you know look it is you know that's been the word I've used throughout this offseason has been unlocked does Chase Young help unlock

everybody on that line the way that you know both did last year with the Niners in a similar situation where San Francisco had a bunch of guys who were, you know, highly, first-round picks, highly sought after players, whatever, and he helped turn that defense into real force, and I think that's the wonder here. Does Chase Young on one side, sweat on the other, pain up the middle with Alan,

Kerrigan, and so on, is it just completely unlocked the situation? And, you know, I don't want to get ahead of myself. Again, they're going up against an offensive line that's not so great, and, you know, both of these guys were here last year, the defense wasn't good. But it appears that the upside is pretty significant and with good help and everybody does their thing. It should be really interesting to watch. Listen, there are two things that could unlock everything. Chase Young and the coaching staff.

I mean, that's what you're as a fan optimistic about. Real defensive coaches that know what they're doing and know how to maximize the talent that they have. And then a total game changer as a pass rusher. And if you have those two things this year, it's going to be a much more competitive team. I'm curious, is young lining up primarily as the right defensive end? So, you know, going against, say, a Jaron Christian, or are they mixing and matching with sweat? I feel like he's been, I think some mixing and matching. I feel like I've seen him on the left side, a bunch.

I believe that's where he was on the Peterson play. So it's been moving around, but I feel like he's been on the left side if I had to tell him to be a little bit more with sweat on the right side. Got it. We are talking to Ben Standing, of course, from the athletic.

Kendall Fuller's also banged up a little bit. Yeah, he hasn't practiced in the last few days. Rivera said yesterday, effectively, similar to what they did is Jim's young, that they're just taking it easy. They're not trying to turn a mild injury into something that lingers longer by rushing them back, because they're taking their time.

He hasn't really explained what the issue is. I mean, he was out there. Kenne Fuller was out there yesterday in terms of just on the general practice field. He wasn't working out with the team, but he was doing some work on the side. So, you know, just watching him a little bit from a distance. You know, it seems like he was in good spirit. So, you know, I've got to assume or guess that it's nothing terribly serious.

But, yeah, he's been banged up. Fabian Moreau was out there yesterday. He also missed some time. And, you know, that is the position where I feel like, the corners have looked better than I think people would have thought it in part because Ronald Darby has looked pretty good and Jimmy Moreland as in making plays. But beyond the top four guys, including Moreau and Fuller,

it's more questionable. Greg Stroman, I think, has had a pretty good camp, and I would probably play him as the fifth guy right now. But, you know, if you're going to, in today's NFL, you need, you know, probably six guys, at least, you know, fifth and six are kind of up in the air, so to lose a guy potentially, like Fuller again, not saying he's out, but just in case, if this were a week one situation,

you know, I still don't quite know what they have behind there. But, yeah, I think their top four gives them a puncher's chance against most opponents, even though they don't have a obvious shutdown for it maybe being the best hope. But, yeah, I think collectively they've looked fairly decent, especially Darby, I thought, it really stepped up. We are six days. Is it Saturday? It's cut down date to 53?

Yep, 4 o'clock Saturday. All right. So I'm not going to ask you for your 53 man right now. Maybe we can debate that on Friday if you've got time. But I do want to talk about the players that are going to be a factor, you know, 13 days, less than two weeks from now. And you wrote yesterday, Inside Washington's Training Camp Secret, how and where to use Antonio Gibson. How will he be used? How significant a contributor will the rookie from Memphis be, you know, in the opener and in the early portion of the season, do you think?

I think he has a chance to be significant. less in terms of volume and more in terms of the upside. You know, look, I mean, first of all, I talk to a bunch of people from his juco days, college days, NFL film people like Greg Coasell, and obviously we've been talking to the team. And, you know, by and just the story was how to use him, everybody's different thoughts. Greg Coel believes plot receiver, other think he's a big back. You know, clearly the team is moving him all over the place and the formation him in and J.D. McKissick in particular.

So I think that it's looking for the ideal matchup. But one of the other themes was, look, there's a lot, you're putting a lot on this kid and without all the practices, sort of having him have to learn literally everything is maybe a bit much, and the idea of him being a package player, I think makes a lot of sense. And I don't know if that's exactly what the team will go by, but even Ron Rivera, though, said that what when asked about the kid's sort of mental state, right now. He said confused. We're confusing

because there's a lot being thrown out of him. So I think to me you pick certain runs, certain pass patterns to go with and figure out how to get him the ball six to ten times a game. That may not sound like a lot, but that could be, you know, arguably the second most touches on the team initially behind

Adrian Peterson out of the backfield that is. And I think that could really you know, with the potential he has but if anybody's seen one highlight of this guy, you recognize the home run threat is all kinds of the real. And I think if you figure out how to maximize the opportunities more so than maximize the touches, I think at least initially I think you could really have a lot of fun

of him. All right. I'm going to ask you a few rapid fire questions here because, again, we're less than two weeks from the opener. And I just want your best guess. And you can say it's an educated guess or you feel really confident. All right. One of those two. Educated guess or really confident on the following questions. Are you ready? Shoot. All right. Who are the top three wide receivers? Pretty confident.

McCorn and Steven Sims, Dontrell Inman. All right. So Don Trell Inman is the guy not necessarily Antoni Gandy Gandy Golden, which you know a guy like him could see some time on the field. But you've got Inman and

you are confident about that. Is the starting left tackle Jaron Christian? Well, based on that sound, you can tell him. I'm not very confident on this one. He may be by default. I mean, Deke Charles is still not practicing. You know, Cornelius Lucas does not at all look like a left tackle.

So based on right now, Jared Christian is the only guy they have, who I think you could even suggest would be. But in my head, I'm not an expert. I have to imagine there, I'm not saying Donald Penn specifically, but some type of Donald Penn guy out on the street who would give you a better week one chance, assuming they're in good health, than Christian. But right now, I would feel that it would be Jared Christian just simply based on the options they have. I mean, if Sadiq Charles starts practicing today and they think he can ramp up quickly,

I guess that's a different conversation. But we haven't even played literally once, so I can't make that claim. So that's an educated guess, but it also sounds like you're leading towards their, you know, not confident about that either, that this is not the situation they want to be in at left tackle. Is that fair? So it's tricky. On the one hand, I would think no, but they're not, you know, they're also not doing anything about it.

They haven't gone out and signed. You know, they signed, they needed a receiver. As a beginning of camp, they signed Don Trell Newman. And they have brought in a couple of guys. I mean, they did bring in some linemen, a guy like David Steinmetz, and, you know, kind of looking at him mostly as like a camp body. But, you know, I'm not going to predict, pretend I have a sense of whether he's worthy of the roster, but not, I mean, not as a starter.

So if they may feel comfortable with what they've seen at a Christian, I don't know that I would think that, but, you know, especially with, you know, Haskins, a quarterback, or hell, even if it's Alex Smith, that's even a whole other story, though. Until they make a move, I'm assuming they feel comfortable with it, but I can't sit here and say that I have the same level of confidence. Next question. Who's the other starting guard other than Brandon Sheriff?

I think it's going to be West Martin. You know, he's gotten the most run. Now, obviously, West Schweitzer has been out. He has, for the most part, most of the camp, he's betting back the last couple of days. They've also used Josh Garnett, one of these guys that they've, picked up during camp. He was with the ones a little bit. They also were using the combination of Chase Ruea and the Rookie Center, Keith Ismail,

at the center in the guard spot. So I guess that's all possible, but West Martin's, me, has been out there the most. I think he's the safest bet to be out there. You know, I think he looks okay in spots. And, you know, I don't think he was bad last year either when he filled in for sherrily late in the year. So that would be my guess. I think I'm pretty confident in that.

All right. Will they have a fullback in this offense? And if so, who is it? They definitely won't have a traditional fullback. They don't have one on the roster. But, you know, so what I think is it's more of they're going to use two back sets. But this is where the Gibson thing comes into play and maybe to some degree, McIthick, because both of them have running back but also wide receiver skills.

And one of the points in my article was that, and this was talked about by more multiple coaches, including the offensive coordinator at Memphis, is that when you have Gibson on the field, you can simultaneously line him up a receiver and force defenses to go to pay an extra defensive back because he's out there in that spot. But also, you can quickly move him back into the backfield, and now you want to have a standard front seven out there. So I think that mismatch aspect is a real huge component for,

what they want to do. And it's not, again, it's also McKissick, who was originally a receiver now who plays back, it plays in the running back. I think this is a big deal. I don't think a fullback perverse per se. Obviously, they'll probably keep three tight ends, and you can see one of them in that spot that they use different formations. But I think it's a lot of two back sets trying to confuse the defenses to what's actually going to be a runner-up. Through the first three weeks

of the season, who leads in tight-end snaps? pretty confident Logan Thomas I mean he's the only one that I feel about right now he's been interesting as a red zone threat the last couple of a few days with Wayne Askins and you know again I don't know if he's really a starting tight end in this league based on what he's done today the answer would definitely be no but you know based on what's here it doesn't I mean Marcus ball has been running a lot with the twos and you know getting some work with the starters I but, you know, I just still struggle to imagine that this guy who was, you know, an undrafted player a couple years ago,

didn't play last year because of an injury, you know, he's legitimately battling Logan Thomas for real snap. I guess Jeremy Sprinkle is the third guy, but honestly, I don't, I have remained skeptical. He even makes the team. My only counter, though, to myself is, well, then who else is? You've got Richard Rogers, hell, hence, I don't necessarily know that either one of those guys has done too much in camp, and at least Sprinkle is sort of been there, done that. Rivera has said that they're kind of probably lean towards Vets in some of these choices.

And not that Richard Rogers is older than Sprinkle, but Sprinkles has been playing. He basically never misses any game. So there's logic to keeping him as a third guy, but even though I could easily see him being replaced, they thought they had somebody a little bit better. Is Troy Apke going to be the other starting safety opposite Landon Collins?

Boy, like based on what we, with seen in practice, I should say absolutely confident, yes. I'm only going to hedge just slightly because Sean Davis is the one with far more experience, but based on the one who's in practice, there's no reason to think it won't be apt to.

He's the one running with the one constantly, and like I said, he's been, you know, he's been noticeable. He's had some good hits out there. And, you know, he's obviously, you know, very athletic. He's got big-time speed, and this defense definitely lacks speed last year. If nothing else, I think that's

a big consideration. So, yeah, I guess I mean, I really, I can't almost believe what I'm saying. But yeah, I guess I'm pretty confident that Troy Apki is the starting safety. First defensive possession against the Eagles. Who are the three linebackers? John Bostic, Kevin Pierre Lewis, and I'm going to say Thomas Davis almost out of seniority. It does feel like Cole Holcomb, and I think we probably need to ask more questions. I've not really heard nearly as much about him in this campus.

You would have thought. I mean, he was a guy obviously last year. You know, the rookie, you know, tied with Bostic second in tackle. You know, we talk tons about his speed and ability. But it feels like he maybe slid behind those other guys a bit. Also, Sean Dionne Hamilton has looked pretty solid in spots, especially, you know, in run situations. But, you know, Thomas Davis hasn't been out there a lot so far, but I would imagine he's the guy to go with, right.

right now is the third guy just by almost the fault, I guess. I'll ask you, if we reconnect later in the week, I'll get an update on this, but we're six days from cut down or five days from cut down. Give me a surprise cut or two. So I don't know if it's a surprise, but I think Trey Quinn is definitely on the edge. I mean, I don't know if they're keeping five or six receivers. If they're keeping five, boy, I've been all this time. kind of leaning towards Isaiah, right?

The undrafted free agent at a temple, largely because the special time kind of leaning towards Isaiah, right, the undrafted free agent at his temple, because largely because the special teams coach Nate Kayser months ago cited him as somebody that he really liked, and so many of these final decisions come down to special teams. So that was one thought I had, but, you know, Cam Sims is still in the mix if you keep six.

Is it Cam Sims? Is it Quinn? I think that's an interesting spot, interesting in the sense of, like, you know, what happened is not so much interesting in terms of a ton of excitement. I think Camph Sims has looked really good in camp again, by the way. He would be my lean over Quinn, but Quinn's also been a guy in their punt return situation, so that's a tough call there. I'll give you one.

I'm not remotely saying I'm putting this in my 53, but it's something I'm at least considering. DeShazzer Everett, and the reason I say that is, so they draft Cameron Curl in the seventh round. Typically, teams want to keep their own draft picks. Now, Rivera did say yesterday that the veterans are going to have an edge over the young players when it comes to final decisions, so that would be going against, you know, that means going with Everett. But at the same time, I noticed that yesterday they had curl in the punt-protect situation, which is also where they typically have Everett.

And, you know, Everett has many values on special teams. I think if they think that they can get away with somebody else in some of these spots, maybe that opens up a place because if you if curls your fourth safety he's also a guy that can play corner which is why I do think they could keep five safeties that maybe that opens up a spot to give you that whatever else you want a six receiver

a ninth defensive lineman whatever it may be so I'm not saying I'm picking it there's definitely logical reasons to keep Everett primarily special team but I'm keeping an eye out for that one Last one, Ron Rivera, I guess, referenced, implied or stated that he's nearing a decision on the starting quarterback and naming a starting quarterback. Before you give me your educated guess versus extremely confident prediction, is that going to happen this?

Will he do that this week or will he wait until Monday or do you think there's a sense that they'll know out there, but they'll keep it, you know, as a competitive advantage, as long as they can, leading up to Philadelphia. What do you think his timeline on that is? The competitive advantage stuff is definitely something that they're all talking about. We all kind of keep making jokes about it. Like we're not allowed to take video or pictures after the first, like, say, 10 minutes of practice. The team, though, constantly shoot stuff out and they'll tweet out plays that we're not allowed to because of competitive advantages.

So anything that gives them a potential of that competitive advantage, I definitely think I think that they will consider. But as far as, you know, look, I don't know how it is in Haskins. I mean, between him and Kyle Allen, there has been no overt competition. It's been pretty much Haskins running with the ones almost exclusively, as we just discussed. Alex Smith, to me, is a completely separate issue. So I don't even know how to factor that in.

until he's clear to play, how can we consider him, clear for contact, how can we consider him in the mix? So I would be very surprised if the answer is ultimately it's not Dwayne Haskins. So I guess I'm pretty confident that the answer is Haskins is the starting quarterback, again, unless there's some major dramatic revelation or change with the Alex Smith situation. And even then, I would have to still believe that Dwayne Haskins is the starter of whenever it will bearer makes out of an absolute person. All right, I want to get your thoughts on John.

Thompson passing away. You covered the program. You got to know them a little bit. You got to know people in the program a little bit. And we'll do that with Ben Standing right after this. All right. We're talking to Ben Standing, of course, from The Athletic. We've covered a lot of Washington football team stuff and maybe we'll catch up with Ben right before the final cut down date on Friday if he's got time. But you spent time covering Georgetown. You got to know a lot of people in the program. You had conversations with Big John. in the past. He passed away, and I spent some time talking about it at the beginning of the show here today. But what were your memories of being around the program and around the king of

that program, John Thompson, Jr.? Yeah, I mean, like, I grew up a kid in his area, and if I have any one weird sports fandom thing, it was I rooted for Georgetown and Maryland growing up. I mean, you know, they were both local teams and obviously they never played each other. That was never really an issue. But so, you know, I was there, I'm old enough to remember the Patrick Ewing playing era and what that meant. And so therefore, John Thompson Jr. was, you know, the epitome of an icon. And to then be older and to be around the program and to be around him, I mean, it literally felt like you're, you know, you're talking to, like, you know, some sort of like statue or something on, you know, that come to life. and literally there is a statue of him inside the Thompson Center.

Incredibly intimidating. He's a huge man. It was a huge man. Big, he was not afraid to speak his mind on all kinds of subjects. He would be in these press conferences when his son John Thompson III was a coach. And often, like, just completely random, he would just, like, chime in from the back of the room. And it was always quite a spectacle effect as long as you were not the reason why he was chiming in. and it was fascinating for sure.

Obviously, as a coach, he was an incredible winner. Those Georgetown teams, I mean, Kevin, I mean, you remember it wasn't just that they won game, people do that. They created, they were an era. They were one of the old, when you write the history of college basketball, that Georgetown era is high up there, the style of play, but also just the level of intimidation, the whole whole whole thing. and the

annoying a thing. And obviously, for the black community, you know, so much, that program meant so much because, you know,

he was the first coach, right, the first black head coach to win a national title. You know, he did so much for the community, both in terms of just, you know,

race relations, but also on the academic side. And then, of course, well, he coached Patrick Ewing, Alan Iverson, Bikimit Mato, Onza morning,

not to mention, count with other, you know, all American types are just guys who are huge legends. around there. And I guess just for me personally, so like I said, just being around, you know, I mean, it was very intimidating early on to even, like, dare go speak to him.

But over time, I never quite knew why. He was always super nice to me. You know, I saw him a couple of times earlier this year once was after Kobe Bryant passed. He came out to give some remarks about that. And, you know, I figured out enough how to deal with him. First off, don't ask a question you don't know the answer to. and secondly, don't ask anything stupid because he was going to throw it right back in your face

and too many people who just come in there and didn't know what was happening would get the wrong end of that stick when he would come back at that. But ultimately for me, he was, you know, for me, nice and, you know, it was an amazing, I don't want to say life accomplishment,

but to, I check off a big, a big check for me that this guy seemed to give a crap about my existence when he saw, Tommy. It was just an unbelievable feeling as a kid who grew up rooting for this team and knowing that it is a literal definition of a living legend. And it's so sad that unfortunately, you know, he passed away. Yeah, you know, you and I are a little bit different. I mean, we're both from here and our huge basketball fans. I was so much sort of born and raised as a Maryland, you know,

Maryland family and rooting for Maryland and rooting for Maryland during the lefty years into the, you know, into the Gary years. And Georgetown, you just, if you were super hardcore, either way, it was really hard to root for the other. It was this, it was a rivalry, even though they didn't play each other. So my, and I mentioned this earlier, but my, you know, my impressions of Georgetown, you know, before I got into broadcasting and before I got the job at 980 and got to no coach was, I hated Georgetown. You know, I couldn't stand Georgetown. I couldn't stand the But it was a lot of jealousy and a lot of envy sort of combined together. Remember, Maryland was the heavyweight, and Georgetown took that mantle in the 80s and, you know, and stopped playing Maryland.

And there was that whole thing. But as I mentioned earlier in the show, getting to work with him for many years at the station, it was just such a pleasure and such a great experience. And, you know, I loved, you know, as you said, you know, I can't tell you, and I mentioned it earlier, how many times I walked out of the studio after Tom and I did the sports fix from 12 to 2. And he and Doc and Al to start with, and then it was he, Doc and Brian would be walking into the studio. But how many times, like Doc would come in, he would always come in early to the studio and start setting up shop, usually pretty disruptive in studio, as we were still doing that. show and uh and brian you know was hanging out in the bullpen and then he'd walk in and then coach

at least no less than two dozen times over the years he's standing out there waiting for me and I walk out and I got my headphones I got my notes motherfucker what you said do you and then we would get into it right there in the bullpen and then but he always like like I remember doc early on saying to me he must you know he you're getting to him one way or the other you're getting to him which is a good thing but we ended up having so many conversations on so many days where he'd be late walking into the studio to be on the air dock and and brian would open it up and then he'd walk in at 210 or whatever after arguing with me or debating something in the bullpen but god i enjoyed being around him he was so smart um he was

so bigger than life like as you as you described there was just there was a charisma about him as well It was hard in his presence not to be attracted to him and not to like him. And a giant, a giant in this city, a giant in the sports world, you know, passed away last night. He really did. And, you know, you got to witness essentially him and his godfather role, you know, in the boss role, you know, with a couple of underbosses, you know, and a couple of captains running around. But when he was in some of those press conferences following the game or a practice and he would speak up, everybody stopped and listened, right? Oh, yeah. I mean, without being over the top, it was like the voice of God.

Yeah. I mean, one of the things, I mean, look, obviously, this is not the day to, you know, offer any type of critique. But one of the things, you know, people had often said for Georgetown was, you know, even when his son was the coach, that John's, big John's presence, you know, wasn't always helpful because, you know, obviously he, when he spoke up, even his son who then the current head coach seems to be deferential on some level at times. And basically everybody around there was, and, you know, the fact that they then hired Patrick Ewing, you know, despite, you know, no head coaching experience, just that any other, to be the coach, everybody just said, well, of course they did,

because, you know, this is what Shirley Big John would want and so on. But it is, look, he is, you know, we talk about programs, you know, who's the best coach in the program programs or program builders. Like Georgetown was a nothing program. He literally took this thing and turned it. I mean, everything else about Georgetown, the athletic department, they actually have a good soccer team now. But by and large, they're a Patriot League type program,

and this basketball thing is ginormous. Obviously, the success hasn't been there the last few years, and that's a whole other story. But, you know, it is one of the big college basketball programs in the country that when you put them on television, I don't know about ratings per se, but you can still get the average person, but oh, Georgetown's playing, and that's all from that era. And look, I mean, you know, like I said, the history of college basketball,

it's always funny. The two games that they did they rerun Georgetown the most, for them, both ended in losses. They lose the North Carolina in the 82 title when some random freshman named Michael Jordan hits the go-ahead shot at the buzzer, and then the infamous play with Fred Brown throwing the ball away to Worthy. and then you have two years three years later Villanova with the literal perfect game

beats Georgetown and you know what can you know what can you say about that but they also won a title in between Big John and Fred got a hug together out of that one and like I said you can't write the history of college basketball

by the way he is NBA player you know great friends with Bill Russell from their days together with the Celtic you know so much so much the history of basketball flows through John Thompson Jr. in so many ways. And it's definitely a big loss for sure. No doubt. Yeah, the reaction coming in, you know, all morning long, you know, is from every corner of the world. I mean, it's political, it's sports, it's pop culture, it's everything. This was a very important person in the history of

of sports and beyond. And to your point, you cannot, you know, do a Ken Burns college basketball documentary without having a whole, you know, night or certainly a massive, you know, hour on what Georgetown basketball meant to the sport in the 80s and how it became this sort of counterculture, anti-establishment, you know, brand, you know, and very popular, obviously with young black America, but it was massively crossover as well, appeal, because there were so many people that, you know, bought those starter Georgetown jackets

and had Georgetown at one point sold more apparel than any college football team, let alone all college basketball teams there for a couple of year period. That shows how significant they were on sort of the pop culture landscape as well. Last thing before you run, because Ben is getting ready to head into FedEx Field for the team's practice. I think you've been watching the NBA playoffs like I have. This duel between Jamal Murray for Denver, for those of you who are not watching, and Donovan Mitchell for Utah, is one of the great battles, scoring battles,

you know, mono-a-mono that I think we've ever seen in the postseason. if I'm exaggerating that. I don't think I am. You know, Jamal Murray here in the six games is averaging 34 points per game, but in the last three, he's gone for 50, 42, and 50 in those games. Donovan Mitchell, in the same series at this point, has also scored 50 plus on two different occasions. He's averaging 38.7 in the series. He's got a game of 57 a game. A of 51 and a game of 44. Not in the history of the NBA postseason. Has there ever been a series at any point in the postseason where there have been four 50 point plus games in a series and it's been done in this one with just two players? It's been amazing. I don't know if you've

been staying up to watch it, but where did Jamal Murray? I mean, I knew Jamal Murray was good. Don't get me wrong. Had no idea that he had this kind of ability to score. I'm with you. This is sort of like the second-tier series where, like, the two guys, you just said, both very good, all-star level players, but they're not, you know, the true NBA headliners, but don't tell that to anybody who's actually watching the series. I caught some of the game yesterday with Murray, and there were a couple of stretches I saw where you can't name another player in the league who could have scored on a better run than that guy was. Oh, my God, yeah.

He even had, like, one stretch early in the game where he couldn't believe the runner that he had, I think, to go in. He had a look on his face like, hell yeah, look at that. I got game. It is pretty fascinating to watch. You know, for Murray in particular, I feel like Mitchell's got a pretty good big reputation already. I feel like with Murray, especially if they can come back and win this series, what is now 3-3, right, after being down 3-1, but he can come back and win the series, especially at this clip. I mean, his level goes way up in terms of, you know, where he fits into this league.

And it's been fascinating. I mean, I don't know what the numbers say. I have to imagine scoring is way up in the bubble, I would think. I mean, because I keep – It seems like – It seems like. Yeah, I mean, we already – we had the Dodgers game a few games ago, and we've had some other incredibly high scoring games.

I mean, Lillard has had some insane ones with Portland. So it feels like – I mean, I'm. I'm downgrading some of these scoring numbers because the defense is incredibly light, but at the same point, you still got to make the plays and make the shots, and he clearly is doing that. I mean, this for me, tomorrow night is seventh game, the only game seven in this first round of the postseason. It becomes must-watch. I'm telling you, like, for those that are sort of nodding off right now, wake up.

because if you, it's so different looking to watch the way Jamal Murray gets buckets. Like he'll come down and he'll stop in transition like he did last night and knock down a 30-footer. He dominates the ball a lot. He's able to shake free, back up, step-back threes. He was nine for 12 from behind the arc last night. Nine for 12. That's ridiculous. In the last couple of games where he's really lit it up, I'm pulling up the numbers right now because it's some sort of ridiculous shooting percentage.

His field goal percentage in the last three games is 65%. His overall three-point percentage, he's made 13, 22 of 23, 22 of 35 from behind the arc. I mean, he has been incredible, and Donovan Mitchell's been great. For me, the story of the postseason, and I know I'm partial here because he's my favorite player in the league, but it is the continued show that Kauai Leonard puts on in the postseason. He's a different player in the postseason. Yesterday, that game against the Mavericks got to within six after the Clippers were up 23. It's a six-point lead as they head to, you know, it laid into the game.

Here comes Kauai Leonard scoring eight of their next 10 game over. He finishes with 33 points, 14 rebound, seven assists, and five steals. He is just, to me, the guy in the league, Ben, that you win with more than anybody else. Yeah, the Kauai thing, did you see Spencer Dinwiddie's comments yesterday? It was like on a video thing. It's in my timeline. Nike versus New Balance, yes. Yeah, basically. It is such a smart take, and it's single along the line that I thought for years and said about sort of the overpraising of certain players.

But the point is that if the clipper's win a title, Kauai Leonard will have led three different teams to three different titles, including two and back-to-back years, in which he's presumably will be the final of MVP. And if other people had done that, forget the goat debate. There is no debate. that is like a craziness you know Jordan is great as he was obviously was doing it with the same people

but more or less you know Lisa Tippin and Phil Jackson so this is like an insane possibility that we are witnessing here and Kauai is you know we all get it he's a robot

he has no expressions he you know he there is no marketing campaign all that stuff and he it's just wildly impressive what he does over and over again I mean if we get to them against the Lakers you know it's just going to be a fascinating series with the clippers having all these

sort of interchangeable wings and the clippers and the clipper and the clipper and the and the lakers having the size of anthony davis and you know with lebrons it really'll be a fun one if we get to that point it'll be it'll be crazy he's he's he's a great clutch performer too but the point that you were referring to spencer did what did what he said essentially if he were a Nike guy instead of this, you know, new balance NBA guy, which very few are, that there'd be no conversation right now about, he'd be so much more in the conversation as the best player in the game and is one of the greatest of all time. And you're right. If he wins this title, a third title with three different teams, with three different finals MVP's, he now enters that

conversation. I mean, and by the way, keep in mind two of the titles coming in. year one with that new team. I mean, that's really hard in this league, especially in a shortened season like this one. They didn't have the proper time, you could say, with him, by the way, having a cutback schedule to get into some sort of rhythm. He was brilliant yesterday. Just brilliant. Right.

100%. No, Kau is incredible. You know, look, at the end of the day, these NBA, you know, everything is crazy in the world right now, but these NBA, playoffs have at least been interesting. It'll be, you know, it'll be fascinating to see there's still such a long way to go to the end. And we already saw Paul George talk about, you know, dealing with some mental struggles, sort of being in that bubble. And there's a long way to go for some of these guys.

Oh, yeah. I think it's a wonder of an advantage of a guy like Kauai has. He's such an unemotional player that maybe that helps him deal with this stuff in ways that other people won't be able to. So it's really going to be a fascinating. I mean, the teams that get to the finals, if it's a long series, have five to six weeks left in this bubble. You know, they do. We're just entering the second round, the conference semifinals, so there's a long way to go. Thank you for doing this.

Get into FedEx Field. We'll talk to you towards the end of the week. Hey, man. Appreciate it. Ben Standing, everybody from The Athletic. It does such great job covering the team. Follow him at Ben Standing on Twitter and subscribe to the athletic. It's 40% off right now.

I'm telling you it's totally worth it, especially with football season approaching. All right, we're done for the day. Tommy will be with me tomorrow and we'll get Tommy's thoughts on the life of John Thompson.