The Kevin Sheehan Show - Rivera on Alex Smith

Episode Date: May 27, 2020

Kevin opens the show talking about what Ron Rivera told Mike Tirico about Alex Smith and a possible return. Adam Zielonka joins the show to talk about hockey's potential return and whether or not the Caps would have an advantage. Mark Zuckerman joins the show to talk about a potential baseball start to a season and the Nats weekend ring ceremony that didn't go according to plan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Now here's Kevin. All right, two guests on the show today, Adam Zalanka from the Washington Times, to talk about hockey's progress towards the resumption of its season. And then Mark Zuckerman from Mass and Sports will talk about the issue that baseball has in trying to start its season. The owners yesterday basically gave the players a proposal, which included something different from the revenue split. They were talking about a significant cut in salaries,

but the lesser paid players would have a lesser cut percentage-wise on their salary. The higher-paid players would have a bigger cut to their salaries. the players immediately rejected the offer, and they claim that a counteroffer is coming soon. We'll ask Mark about that, get into some of the Nats ring ceremony, virtual ring ceremony issues that they had from over the weekend and more. I want to start with this, though. Ron Rivera was a guest on Mike Torrico's Lunch Talk Live show yesterday, which is, I think it's an NBC sports show. He was asked about Alex Smith. Alex Smith, and Tricco set it up by saying, you know, there was this recent documentary aired on ESPN, Project 11.

Stefania Bell did the story. I had her on the radio show. You learned a lot about the Alex Smith ordeal. It was a very moving, you know, documentary. And Tricco went on and on, and he said, look, I know it's a sensitive question, but is Alex Smith going to play again? And Ron Rivera said this. We have. And we've had some great conversations on up until the lockout occurred. And so we haven't been able to get back to the facility and sit down with him again since. But, you know, I've just, in getting to know who he is, I don't doubt him. But again, the one thing that he and I talked about, more so than anything else is that, you know, he's got to be able to protect himself out on the football field before, you know, anything can happen before we can allow him back on the field. But he's doing a great job. He's working hard. He's carrying himself the right way. He's doing things the way he's supposed to. And we'll see. You just never know. And, you know, we'll find out hopefully sometime in late August.

I'm going to say it again. I hope Alex Smith never plays football again. That documentary was, you know, beyond an eye-opener. It was, to me, confirmation that he should never step foot onto a football field again. And I hope he gets himself back into condition to play where he could go out and play. But why? He's got generational money. It wouldn't be a financial-driven decision. He's got young kids and a beautiful wife, a nice young family, and what he went through nearly dying, and then nearly having his leg amputated as a second best thing to dying, was just really too much in watching that.

Again, I can't believe the progress he's made. It's amazing. And that last shot in that documentary of him running around with his young kids sort of playing, you know, keep away, and he's got a ball in his hands, and they're trying to chase him. He's got a couple of decent moves, and it's like, dude, you didn't think you'd ever be there. Why ever put yourself at risk again? I hope he does not play football again. And it certainly sounds like from Ron Rivera that he has to prove that he could protect himself out there. Nobody can protect himself completely on a football field.

But I still would bet big money that Alex Smith never takes a legitimate NFL snap again. It's possible he might take some sort of ceremonial snap in a preseason game. I could see that happening. I could. But I don't expect him to take a legitimate snap. I don't. A couple of other things to get to before we bring Adam Zalank on. Damian Lillard, did you see what he said?

He says that if the NBA restarts its season and it's a shortened season, and it's a shortened season, and his blazers don't have a chance to make the playoffs. He ain't playing. Quote, if we come back and they're just like we're adding a few games to finish the regular season and they're throwing us out there for meaningless games and we don't have a true opportunity to get into the playoffs, I'm going to be with my team because I'm a part of the team, but I'm not going to be participating. I'm telling you that right now, closed quote.

I'll tell you what, if I were Adam Silver, were the owner of the Blazers, or anybody in that organization, I would sit Damian Lillard down and say right now, you're going to play in these games, whether you're eliminated from the postseason or not. This is not a normal circumstance. People, you know, need diversions.

We have people losing their jobs and losing their lives. by the tens of thousands in this country. A return to playing basketball is good for the country. You're going to get paid big money to do it. You will play or you will be suspended for a significant amount of time. He's not saying I'm not coming back to play basketball because I'm concerned about the health environment. I'm concerned about contracting the virus.

He's not saying that. He's saying because his team won't have a true opportunity to get to the playoffs, he's not participating. Can you imagine if all of the teams that were basically long shots to make the postseason or even eliminated the minute they came back and played some regular season games decided they weren't going to play? I would bet you any amount of money. he's going to play.

A couple of other things to get to real quickly before we bring Adam Zolanka onto the show. Jack Del Rio, who I've mentioned before, is really into tweeting, which good for him, I guess. I don't care.

You know, win games, win some playoff games for this organization for the first time and forever, and I don't really care what you do. But Jack Del Rio loves himself some Twitter. And he retweeted some of, something from yesterday that I thought was a little bit interesting. He retweeted a tweet from this guy, KB, who tweeted out a screenshot that was broken into quadrants of the Redskins from 2008, 2009,

in all white uniforms, white on white. This is something that Gibbs did in, you know, from 2004 to 2007. I forget which year they broke him out. I'm not a big-time uniform guy. And I think Zorn may have warn them a couple times. You see some shots of Chris Cooley in here, Jason Campbell, Santana Moss, John Jansen, Sean Taylor, Ryan Clark, and Jack Del Rio retweeted this thing out and said and wrote, Sounds good, week one, he's all in on the white on whites. There you go. Jack Del Rio, defensive coordinator, he's all in on the white on whites. I got to be honest with you, I couldn't give a shit what they were next year. I just want to see progress. I want to see them progressing towards a real NFL franchise.

You know, I want to see the culture change. I want to see the players getting better. I want to see teams well-coached. I want to see teams and players getting better and the team getting better. Even if they only go six and ten, seven and nine, eight, and eight somewhere in that neighborhood. I want to feel at the end of next year like they're trending in the right direction as long as, you know, this group of people, that they've got the right group of people.

And if they let these right group of people do their jobs, it's going to trend in the right direction. I did, though, give sort of a history lesson on the white uniforms. You know, the Redskins for years wore burgundy tops at home gold pants in the 70s under George Allen and Jack Pardee. Then Joe Gibbs got hired, came from the Chargers. The Chargers wore primarily white at home, and he changed it to white. That was it. And that became the championship uniform.

White tops, burgundy bottoms at home. And if you had to wear burgundy tops, white bottoms on the road, that was fine, too. But I'll never forget the first game. It was week one, 1981, Joe Gibbs' first game as Redskins coach at RFK, 1 o'clock start against the Cowboys. And walking up that RFK concourse and peeking out through one of those, you know, terminals,

through one of those entrance areas, entrance exit areas, I saw the Cowboys blue uniforms in RFK and the Redskins white uniforms at RFK. I had never seen that before. and it was quite a sight. The Cowboys blue uniforms were bad luck for them back then. They weren't bad luck that day. They dominated the Redskins,

and the Redskins lost the game 26 to 10 on the way to an 0-and-5 start before Gibbs changed the offense and got away from the Chargers offense and, you know, added the H-back, and we started running Rigo, and then it was eight out of the final 11, and then the next year, obviously, Super Bowl champs. But anyway,

Jack Del Rio likes white on white. Maybe that'll be the opening uniform, week one, against the Eagles, if we get to week one. Hopefully we will. I think we will. Before we bring Adam Zalanka on, quick word about hydrant. Top performers in business and sports often attribute their success to their morning routine, whether it's waking up early, setting their goals for the day, exercise, or meditation. But not everybody's got time to do it all.

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And for 25% off your first order, go to drinkhydrant.com slash sheen, S-H-E-E-H-A-N. That's drink hydrant. That's h-y-d-r-A-N-T-com slash Sheen for 25% off your first order. Drinkhydrant.com slash Sheen. All right, let's bring you an out. Adam Zalanka from the Washington Times. He covers so much for the Times, caps, wizards, you know, whatever they ask him to do.

It's that kind of environment right now, but it's been that environment for you and for Tom and for Matt at the Times for a while now, even before the pandemic started. But first of all, before we get to the whole NHL story, which got interesting yesterday, how have you been? I mean, like me, you're considered an essential, you know, a media member. but how have you been? Hopefully you're healthy. Thanks for asking you. I'm healthy. My family's healthy.

I thank God for all of that. We're all going through our own things. I'm very grateful to have a job. And you're right. We're journalists are considered essential employees. I've been kind of doing some of the essential work of trying to help cover the pandemic and the fallout from the pandemic for the times, as they've asked me to contribute in that area.

I've been glad to it. It's been such an important thing to do. maybe a little more important than the return of the NHL, but on the other hand, so many people have been clamoring for sports to come back. So this is nice, too. And I hope you and your loved ones are healthy, too. Everybody is.

Thanks for asking. All right, let's get to hockey, which right now of the three major sports that would be playing right now, seems to be the furthest ahead in getting there and getting back to playing. Now, all of this is contingent, and I think most people understand this, on, you know, the COVID-19 protocols being put in place. But the NHL adopted yesterday and mutually agreed players and owners to how they would resume the season. And it would be without a regular season, it would go straight to the postseason in two cities,

hub cities, no fans, with a 24-team playoff field, 12 per conference, with the top four teams being seated one through four and playing a, round Robin against each other. We'll get to that in a moment. And then Cedes 5 through 12 playing a first round best of five to advance into the next round. So first of all, you know, Adam, you cover the NHL, you cover the caps. You know, why the NHL? Why have there's been so much, you know, sort of agreement and harmony among players

and owners, you know, no standoff on any of these issues? they still have to get the COVID-19 protocols in place, but in terms of how they would resume this season, there seems to be very little disagreement. That's a good question, and I think my best estimate of an answer is that in baseball, they didn't get their season started, and they have lost the chance to play a normal 162 games season in baseball,

so so much of it comes down to money and sorting out how are players going to get paid for a shortened season, the different ideas, pro rating per game, or just massive cuts across the board. There's a lot to, I think there's a lot else to juggle in baseball because they never got started. And then between hockey and basketball, hockey starts roughly three to four weeks earlier than basketball, and they get to the playoffs roughly two to three weeks earlier than basketball. So they were the closest to the feeling of the playoffs. It was really coming to a head, like, okay, we're,

We're almost, not at the finish line, so to speak, but we're almost at the playoffs. Everybody wants a chance to compete in the playoffs. And I guess the thing I'm noticing between hockey and basketball is that more or less, most hockey players, and it's certainly not unanimous because a few have come out and said, I don't know if it makes sense for us out of season at all. But by and large, hockey players do want to get back to what they're used to. They've been away from the ice for close to three months now. And basketball players, like we saw Damien Lillard come out and say,

for the Portland Trailblazers is a team that could make the playoff if you did maybe try to expand its 20 or 24 teams of a tournament. Lillard came out and said, I don't see the reason to play meaningless games. If you're going to restart our season in Florida and why, you know, if my team's on the playoffs, they maybe have a chance but not close enough, why are we going to put our health risks out there? I don't know if that says anything about the different cultures between the different sports. I don't certainly mean to make any broad assumptions or generalizations. But hockey, they were close enough to the Stanley Cup playoffs that both sides wanted to get going.

Fans wanted to see a conclusion to the season. And there are still things that they have to work out behind the scenes. But it was remarkable. It was noticeable that the NHL out of the four, or maybe, like you said, the three sports that should be playing right now, the three major leagues, the NHL has gotten to this point first, ahead of the other leagues where they can formalize some details and they can say here, we settle on something that most, not perfect, nothing's perfect right now,

but something that can hopefully make everybody happy to return a plan. Yeah, I think your answers all makes sense, total sense, especially, you know, the point being that they were furthest along and closest to their postseason anyway. I don't think this was intended, but I think it could be one of those unintended benefits, and that is if they are first back and they're playing postseason games, it's a huge opportunity for the NHL, Adam. I mean, this is a league that we know in many ways is regional in terms of its popularity. We know what the national TV numbers are for the postseason and for the Stanley Cup.

They really are, you know, pale in comparison to the other major sports in their post seasons. It's such an exciting postseason. I mean, I don't know if there's anything more exciting than an overtime NHL playoff game. And if they could jump out first, not just with these announcements, but with actual games, before anybody else is ready to go, they could reap the rewards of being the only game in town. You're exactly right about that. I think that there's that business aspect strategically to add on to that, not just that, well, okay, the players want to play.

But you're right, being first, being in place and ready a couple weeks before the NBA, if it comes down to that, you're going to be able to capture more people's attention, a wider audience, sooner. Because, you know, like last week I watched NASCAR when it came back on the 17th. I'm not much of a NASCAR guy. I watched that first golf tournament, not tournament, but charity event with Ricky Fowler and DJ. And I love golf. And I even wrote a column about it for the time, but I'm sitting there thinking,

God, these are nice. This is nice, but it's not major sports. It's not attracting huge audiences. There's this upper echelon of NBA, NHL, baseball, football. And football's not playing right now so we can take them out of it. But, yeah, those big three, it's kind of, it is kind of competitive. I think it's just from a strategic, from a business and strategic standpoint, yes, if you're hockey and you get there first, that's a bigger value because you're hockey,

because you are that sort of, you know, I just called them up rational, but they're fourth out of the big four leagues in many parts of this country. Oh, no doubt. Yeah. So, you know, there are a couple of things about this that are interesting in terms of the format. First of all, until last night, I don't know that I had read about the round robin for the top four seeds in each conference. I thought that there would be first round buys, which, by the way, I think hockey's

gotten this right, Adam, because you don't want, you know, seeds 5 through 12 playing a best to 5 first round series while four other teams who haven't played since March 10th or whatever it was, you know, not playing games. So to play around Robin, you know, in the east it would be between Boston, Tampa, Washington, and Philadelphia, the current top four seeds to determine seeding is a great idea. So all 12 teams in each conference are playing. It's just four are playing for top four seating and the other eight are playing to advance into the next round. I like that. Do you? I do too. I think that the best way they could have arranged it. To your point before, about not having heard that or read that until Bethann's announcement yesterday,

I hadn't either, and I don't think that it was one of the details that originally leaked a week ago. or five days ago about what they were planning to do. It was originally sounding like a buy where the capitals, because they had the third best record in the East, would have been the number three, and there's just going to be a bracket, and it's a 2014 bracket, so there's buys. But I agree that this way,

that's exactly what the league's thinking and the players wanting also, was they don't want a huge risk. You don't want the Bruins or the Blues or the Capitals or some of the best teams to face elimination just right away. because they did have the best records, and they did get that far. They were going to make the playoff one way or the other. But the players, some of them had come out and said, like, well, I don't know how fair it's going to be.

If we don't have any competitive hockey, can there maybe be exhibitions we can play? And I believe that that actually came out, too, that each team is going to be allowed to play two exhibitions as part of the warming up to. But, yeah, meaningful, competitive hockey with something on the line that's not too big of a risk. I got to just say really quick when there was a media call, you know, like a Zoom conference call

with Commissioner Bettman and the Deputy Commissioner yesterday. And the second question was from a Boston reporter because the Bruins, they would have been the number one. See, they can only regress from number one by not performing well in the round Robin. And his, before we even get to ask about testing, the second question asked to Bettman was basically like, what do you say to Boston and St. Louis fans about this? doesn't seem all that fair, and I'm like, can you really, can you prioritize right now? Don't be whining. The Bruins are the best team in hockey right now, and they're going to do just fine,

but, you know, we hadn't even gotten to the questions of testing and cost at that point. Well, you know, if they really did want to make it completely fair, because Boston, correct me if I'm wrong, but they had a significant lead in the East. Like, they were the best team by a lot in hockey right now in terms of point total. You know, they could have sort of weighted the round robin, to where, you know, well, I did read that basically if Boston ties for first, it's the points that they had on March 10th that will be the tiebreaker. But maybe they could have, you know, in these games, given them a one-nothing lead or something

like that, something to wait it in their favor. But, you know, to your point, it's like, good God, after what everybody's been through, just the thought that we might get games in and they might be played. playoff games. Let's not worry about seating. Because let's be honest, too, these games aren't going to include a home ice advantage unless Vegas or one of these cities where these teams exist are the hub cities, but they're no fans. So there's no fans. So there's no home ice advantage, really, other than, you know, being able to make the first line change or whatever. And, and so it really doesn't matter in terms of matchup. And it's never mattered in hockey anyway.

I mean, this is the sport where the results are the most random in the postseason versus the other sports. Right. And to your point about home ice, not only will there be no fans at these games, but I think the NHL is strongly hinting that they don't want a situation where the Vegas Golden Knights would be playing in Vegas in their home market and home arena, whatever perceived a real advantage of them might come with, not the familiarity of being around, but the temptation of leaving the bubble, leaving the hotel and going to your home, even if you've got family at home, it would proceed, it would be, not just perceived, it would be unsafe to be leaving the bubble and potentially, you know,

picking up COVID-19 while you're out there, but also unfair because every other team in your conference has to be confined to their hotel. So I just want to say, we should look out for when they announce these hub cities. The capitals in the Eastern Conference might get put in Las Vegas, Vancouver, Los Angeles, one of the Western markets rather than something close by because nine of these hub cities that are under consideration, nine of the ten, have playoff teams. They host playoff teams.

So it's going to be hard for you to avoid. I mean, it's not going to be hard. The only way to avoid having a situation where the Golden Knights are playing Vegas is to just move the Western Conference to an eastern, more of an eastern city. Yeah. And move to the east of the west. But then the Stanley Cup finals are going to be sort of earmarked. for a city, I would bet.

And so they may not be able to avoid that if they were to make it to the Stanley Cup finals. And who knows, maybe the Caps can win their second cup in Vegas in a few months in three years. You know, in talking about these hub cities, and we're talking to Adam Zalanka from the Washington Times, I was actually a little bit surprised to see the list of the cities that they are considering. Gary Bettman, the commissioner of the NHL, said two cities, two hub cities, were. this will happen. There were Canadian cities, Toronto and Vancouver and Edmonton listed, but also in the story that I read that was put out after the Bettman announcement, apparently because the Canadian government right now still has a mandatory, mandatory 14-day quarantine, that the

NHL probably would lean towards two U.S. cities. But the cities being considered, Chicago, Columbus, Dallas, Vegas, L.A., Minneapolis, and Pittsburgh. You know, L.A. and Vegas are the only true warm weather cities. Dallas isn't all of these cities are warm weather right now, anyway, I guess. But for whatever reason, I kept thinking, well, it's going to be Arizona, Florida, or Vegas. And we have a lot of NHL, you know, they're all NHL cities. Every single one of them being considered are NHL cities. It's a good point. On the other hand, like you said, it's warm weather pretty much ever.

I read it was 90 degrees in Buffalo this week, and that's warmer than it is down here in Washington. I thought you were about to bring up the locations and how their COVID cases are. I feel like they've picked cities that are generally okay, either now or they're getting to be okay, and they're going, they didn't whittle it down all that far because they know so much can change in a month. There might be a new outbreak. We have no idea. there will be a new outbreak in Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh's off the list.

As of right now, I don't think Pittsburgh was ever particularly hard to hit by the pandemic, so they can be under consideration. And as far as the weather, though, I mean, weather's maybe more important for baseball than anything else because hockey and basketball are played indoors. Would it be nicer to be in Vegas or Los Angeles than it would be to be in Minneapolis? Regardless of time of year, no offense to Minnesota, but just weather-wise, yeah, of course.

And Columbus, Ohio is another one that doesn't on paper look particularly attractive. I think there was a report that in Edmonton, Edmonton was trying to put together an attractive package that included apparently a golf course that would be set aside just for players to use so that it could be part of the bubble. And that's Edmonton, Canada, maybe a little cooler than L.A. or Vegas. But I was only surprised that they would even reveal which 10 were in the running on. I don't know what their motivation was other than to just be liberal in sharing as much information with fans and reporters as possible. Yeah, no, you're making a lot of sense, actually.

I mean, that makes sense to me that they would be looking right now. And the fact that they announced the sites is interesting because they could change dramatically based on, you know, outbreaks in these various cities, you know, pretty much the only places that you consider a long shot at an outbreak or like Fargo and Billings, you know, at this point. And not that they couldn't play them in those areas. I wanted to ask you specifically about the Capitals.

We know that this team, they were struggling, you know, prior to the shutdown. You know, they had lost, I think, 8 of 11 or 8 of 12. You know, they were very comfortably in the playoffs, although that division was really tightening up. I think it was the Flyers who were the Red Hot team, you know, going into that shutdown. And the caps were, you know, only a couple of points between first and third in the division. something like that, if I recall. You know, do you think that this shutdown and a complete restart hurts any type of team or helps a certain style of team?

I had Koken on the radio show today. And Al said, you know, there are some people that believe that a veteran team like Washington will benefit from something like this because they've been through the wars together. They've played in these games together. and they may have been sort of, you know, biding their time a bit during the regular season anyway just to get to the postseason. What do you think? I think purely from a hockey standpoint, it's totally fair to believe that the capitals are more likely to benefit from the frozen season,

whatever momentum or lack of momentum they had or didn't have back then. The capitals are more likely of a team to benefit than the Flyers. The Flyers were, like you said, red-hot. they were a point behind the capitals when the season stopped and were really competitive in that division. And who are some other teams that might have been as hot as in Lake Carolina Hurricanes were having a pretty good run there, for the most part, despite injuries. Tampa was there for a while, right? Tampa was there for a good reminder.

Tampa Bay was competing with or contending with Boston at the top of that division and honestly top of the NHL. I think they had the two best records. Washington Capitals were not playing well. for large parts of February, early March. Honestly, since Christmas, they were kind of a 500 hockey team, which isn't where you want to be. But if you're going to get that out of your system, get out of your system in the middle of the season

and not hit a slump in April or May. And at this point, like July or August, when we do get to start playing. Yeah, because they're a veteran team and because it's not like they had a lot of momentum going that got snapped all at once, this stands to benefit the capitals, but they have to capitalize to use a terrible pun verb there.

They have to make sure they benefit from it in an active manner. Get on the ice as soon as you're allowed to in Virginia. We don't know if that stay-at-home order will be extended past June 10 or if they'll be allowed to maybe go to the MedStar ice rink in Arlington, hopefully in small groups as part of phase two there. Obviously they need to be ready. They got a big start with this Boston, Tampa Bay, and flyers round robin, that can go any direction.

Who knows? There's so many unknowns right now. But it's also honestly a little bit helpful that if you're getting off to a rusty start because you haven't played competitive hockey in five months or whatever the number is going to be at that point, get it out of your system there. It's not the end of the world. It's not eliminating you if you lose those three games.

You get a worse seed nominally, but what does that honestly mean in a new format? You don't know what you're going to get. The bigger issue, is over these last two and a half to three months, did somebody basically eat their way to like 50 pounds overweight? You know, because I was asking Cochin this morning because I was thinking about, you know,

basketball players, they're able to go out and shoot around in the driveway or they've got somebody who will open up a gym or whatever. You know, hockey players can't just go into their backyard and skate. And Cochin said it's an issue. He said, you know, these guys, you know, it's when you haven't gone, When you've gone two, three months without skating, it may be the longest period of time in their adult lives that they've gone without skating

and that it could be an impact at some level. Do you agree or disagree? Oh, I agree. I agree. And I wouldn't, I don't stand on a strong enough foundation to disagree with something Al Koken says about hockey either. He knows what he's talking about, obviously. John Carlson said in an interview of Mike Tariko last week

that he hadn't skated since the shutdown. You just, you can't. I think rinks are closed. And as you said, in basketball, a lot of guys have home gyms and even maybe have like a half-court gym built in their, in their mansions for the richer players. John Wall has, he was talking the other day that he's got a home gym. Very easy for basketball. Even, you know, running is still good cardio for athletes in general exercise. But if you're not able to skate and you're out of practice and out of condition for a couple of months, that's why this training camp phase, which is safe,

three of the reopening plan is going to be pretty vital. It can't just be like a quick, okay, hurry up, guys, we've got to start playing. They're going to all want to take their time. Goleys, too. Goals haven't seen puck's coming at them since second week of March. In any fashion, it's really not easy to replicate if you don't have, like, a teammate shooting on you because it's different if you're just, if a buddy is playing within your backyard and you're facing shots, right?

It's not the speed of an Alex of Etchen slapper. So everyone's going to need that. They're saying roughly three weeks. give or take for the training camp phase before we start seeing games. And that's going to be important yet. Some guys, they're not even quarantining at home. I thought Brendan Dillon, and I hope I'm not getting this wrong, but since Brendan Dillon was traded from the Sharks of the Capitals

a couple weeks before the shutdown, he hadn't had a home end. They're putting him up in a hotel. I think he'll be a Colville Chuck as well. I don't know. I don't know if Brendan Dillon's been stuck in the hotel this whole time. He was for like the first week of the shutdown. Hopefully he's gotten at least go home.

to where his family is based. But that doesn't produce good environments for proper eating habits as well as exercise. That's so true. Like, you know, I, first of all, most hotels haven't been open. You know, a lot of hotels have completely shut down. But, you know, just the concern of, you know, housekeeping and the meals. And, you know, the person living in a hotel for the last several months has probably been more exposed than most people. And who knows, we may even be learning that that's a good thing, you know, especially if you're asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic.

Yeah, and get the antibodies. Yeah, exactly. So one more thing before I let you go. Let's switch subjects to hoops real quickly because you cover the Wizards. And I don't want to talk about the Wizards. I'm a much bigger basketball fan than I am a hockey fan by Miles. it's probably my first love. Not that the NBA playoffs are my first love,

but I wish we were right now in the midst of watching Clippers, Lakers, in the Western Conference Finals. I think I was looking forward to that as much as anything after March Madness. What do you think we would have seen? We had an NBA season continue. We'd be in the conference finals right now. Do you think we would have seen Lakers Clippers, and who do you think would have emerged from that?

and did you have Milwaukee penciled into the NBA finals already? I'll answer that one first. I think I probably had Milwaukee penciled in just from an observer in a standpoint. Philadelphia was a giant disappointment. They couldn't get their stuff together

and the chemistry questions of Simmons and MB together. That was taking its toll, and I thought Philadelphia would be much better than they turned out to be playing before the break. Miami was a little surprising. Boston would have given Milwaukee a run, but no, I think it was safe to assume

though it was the buck's turn to represent the east. But I'm with you. I think the clippers and Lakers would have more than likely ended up in the Western Conference finals. I guess there's maybe room for a little bit of a surprise, maybe a team like Denver. Houston, even though they were not like a top four seat, Houston could still maybe surprise. It wouldn't even be a surprise because of the personnel they had

and the success they were having with that small ball lineup. But it's chalky to say, but Lakers' clippers, they were the best two teams in the West, and it seemed like they could have been on a crash course to play against each other. You know, it reminds me also just talking about basketball, just reminds me talking about what the L.A. basketball community went through when Kobe Bryant died in January. That feels like years ago, and it's only been four months, really, right?

And they had a Clippers-Lakers game that had to be postponed. I hate if I get this wrong, but I think it was going to be postponed until April because it was going to be played right after Kobe Bryant's death, and they decided not. That's right. Yeah, so there's so much, not only is there's so many, like, storylines that haven't been tied up for the NBA season and sports at large, of course, but there's that emotional weight still hanging over so many people,

people who played with or knew Kobe or friends with Kobe, and also just the Lakers as an organization. It feels like such an unsatisfying gap here that we don't get to see how this very strange season. it's the first season of LeBron's with Anthony Davis, and then this happens with Kobe dying. It feels like this just big unsatisfying weight that has not really been fully lifted off everybody yet because it doesn't mean that the Lakers have to win the NBA finals, but could you imagine if they do after all this? Yeah, I mean, I was just going back to find out about that Clippers-Lakers game here, and it was Tuesday, January 28th, which was two days following COVID.

Kobe's passing and tragic helicopter crash because that came on a Sunday, it's Sunday, January 26th. And it was rescheduled for April 9th at the sports arena, so that would have been played. Yeah, there's all that. And by the way, Kobe's name, you know, during the last dance kept coming up for, you know, the purpose, for the reasons of he was a part of it. and then all of the debate that ensued about, you know, his competitiveness versus Michaels and, you know, the rankings of the all-time NBA players, et cetera, which, you know, we got into,

you know, in a heavy way here. But I just, all year long, I kept thinking, you know, I just thought that the combination, first of all, I thought just Kauai Leonard was pacing himself as he sort of did last year, and it paid off for them in a series in which, if you recall, and I think, everybody does. They went down early to Milwaukee, and then Kauai Leonard dominated the series the rest of the way and ended up winning in NBA finals that some can say, well, you know, there were injuries and Durant and the whole thing. I think they still may have won the finals. I just think that he was playing at a level that was incredibly elite. And I liked the Clippers this year.

I picked them to win the title before the year started. So I had a horse in the race, and even though the Lakers, you know, we're playing really well right before that shutdown. I remember the Clippers were really starting to put it together. They lost to the Lakers in like the third or fourth game maybe before the pandemic and shutdown came. But what a great series, not to mention, you know, the LA piece of it as you talked about, two teams from the same city playing in the same arena. It would have been great and we would have been in the middle of it right now. You know, It would have probably, well, the NBA finals usually are the second week in June for game one, or maybe the first week.

We would have been right in the middle of the conference finals in both conferences. And I don't know, I think I would have leaned Clippers. Would you have leaned Lakers? I probably would have leaned Lakers. I don't know if that's just the LeBron effect. And who knows what would have happened throughout the postseason that has not happened yet. That would have seemed to change our minds swayed us in any way. I think on paper I probably would have leaned Lakers, but I hear what you're saying about the Clippers putting it together.

Yeah, it would have been fun to watch. Adam, thanks. As always, much appreciated. Follow Adam on Twitter. At Adam underscore Zalanka, that's Z-I-E-L-O-N-K-A. He writes for the Washington Times. Follow him there as well. Good to catch up.

Glad you're healthy. Talk soon. Great to talk sports with you, as always. Good to hear from you, Kevin. Take care. I really like Adam Zalong. He does a really good job when we have them on the podcast and on the radio show. He covers so many sports.

He knows about a lot of different sports. He's incredibly versatile. He's a really good guest. Very clear, concise, thoughtful, smart. I appreciate him coming on today. A quick word about hawthorne.co before we get to Mark Zuckerman. That's hawthorn with an e.c.c.0.com. Hawthorne.co is basically a site for guys primarily who don't have any of the following things figured out.

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You've heard him on the podcast a lot over the years as well. Over the years, it's been a year and a half of doing the podcast. podcast. But you can, of course, read him on massensports.com and follow him on Twitter at Mark Zuckerman. And I wanted you on the show today, in part because I just had a conversation with Adam Zalanka from the Washington Times about hockey making progress. Like, they've got a format for the resumption of the season already agreed upon. You know, we've got the NBA nearing a potential return or plans to return. The NFL doesn't have to decide. The NFL doesn't have to decide. anything right now. And it's been Major League Baseball

Mark that has really been in this situation where, you know, if you delve into the details, you know, what the players think they have based on the March agreement and the pro rata salaries being paid out. And the owner saying, well, no, that was really

based more on fans being allowed to come to games. We need a revenue share the rest of the way. We've got to share this risk together. It seems like they're a long way apart, and I haven't even touched on, you know, the coronavirus protocols that need to be in place. The economics alone make this seem right now, as we're talking, a bit of a long shot for

the resumption or for the start of a season. Where do you think they are right now? Well, yeah, let's start with the economics of it. I think that's sort of first and foremost for everyone's minds right now. And, yeah, I think it's fair to say that based on what we are seeing and reading and hearing that the two sides are pretty far apart, and that might leave a lot of people to discourage it, and I get that, and that's not wrong to feel that way. What I would caution, though, is to say, these are negotiations, and think about any time in the past there have been labor negotiations in baseball and in any other sports. Things always look like they're in bad shape, and then all of a sudden, when it really comes,

push comes to shoves, and there's a deadline to get a deal done or else they risk, you know, going on strike or losing a season, in almost every case, they come to a deal. There have been some exceptions, obviously, the past where they haven't been able to. But I think both sides understand that the situation of the total of the world is in right now, that the optics of the owners and players not having a season because of finances, that they couldn't agree on how to split up the money, would be a terrible look and have long-lasting ramifications for the sport that go beyond this year. And this is a sport that can't afford to do that. Everybody, you know, enough people are still around from the mid-90s

and remember what the strike of 94 did to the sports damage that it did. And especially at a time like this, there can be very little tolerant from fans and the general public for a sport that bickers over millions of dollars. as a journalist, I like that we're getting details, and we're learning more about this, but as a fan of the sport, I kind of wish they would just lock themselves up, negotiate, don't talk to anybody else,

and come out when they finally have a deal. And I have a hunch that they will. I am optimistic. I think both sides understand that, that the look of it would be terrible if they can't come to deal. I think they will. Then it's a matter of, can you actually play a season under these extraordinary conditions that they're going to attempt to do it?

You know, the recent proposal, I think it was yesterday, it was yesterday, that the owners made to the players, which included significant salary cuts, but for the lesser paid players, the bottom line was the percentage cut would be less for them than it would be for the higher paid players. And for some of the lesser paid players, it almost would work out like a pro rata, you know, pro rata, you know, salary, you know, continuation based on the number of games that they played. So I actually thought that the owners took a little bit of a step forward, but they're asking the highest paid players in the game to take, you know, a bigger haircut in the process. To your point, this would look terrible, I believe, for the players, even more so than the owners, who I know every perceive, they all perceive them to be billionaires, and in some cases that may be the truth. But, you know, each of these businesses, you know, operate independently. And there is, you know, there is a revenue stream and there is a cost structure. And then you either make a profit or you

don't. And from what I've read, Mark, you know, for taking all their other businesses out of the equation, this business doesn't work for most of the teams if they just pay these players, their salaries based on the number of games they play. And this is something that I hope the players end up understanding. Yeah, and you hope that they understand that both sides understand that no season is far worse than half a season in which everybody is making a lot less than they believe they should make. There's nothing good that comes out of no season being played.

So you hope that the cooler has prevailed on that side too. Yeah, I agree with you. And I think that in a vacuum, I think it's okay to feel like players or labor or workers, which is what they are, tend to get the short end of the stick on a lot of these things, and that we should be more sympathetic to them than over the much richer owners of teams. But we're in an unprecedented time right now. And think about any industry across America and the decisions that companies are having, having to make. Yes, this is on a much larger scale than that, but it's happening everywhere.

And for whatever reason, I think MLB and the owners have just done a better job at messaging than the players have. I don't think the way the players have publicly complained about these things or argued this through the media has been as effective or makes them less sympathetic. for whatever reason. I don't know what that is or how you fix that, but I think MLB and the owners are just better at that. And even though this is a financial negotiation, it's also a PR back. And to me, the owners all consistently win this PR battle with the players. There is no doubt. And here's why. Because in this latest proposal, if a player's making $20 million a year and he has to accept this year $6 million, you know, in a commitment from the owners for the rest of the season for an 82 game slate, let's just say, no one's going to understand if that guy balks and says, no, it's not enough.

They're just not going to in these circumstances. They barely even can sympathize with the player in normal circumstances, let alone, you know, the condition that this country is in right now with unemployment and people being furloughed and losing jobs, et cetera. it's just not going to work out for them. I think it's a real, to me, they can make this very easy. The owners actually made an offer to them that, by the way, and I was thinking about this as I read through it,

guarantees them a certain amount the rest of the way rather than going with a revenue split. Because what if you get a second wave of this thing and they don't even finish the season? At least in this particular proposal, correct me if I'm wrong, the owners are essentially guaranteeing salaries the rest of the way, even if it's not at the pro rata agreed upon structure that they had back in March?

Yeah, I believe so. I think the one caveat is there's a separate pool of postseason money, which I think they have set up with the understanding that if for some reason they can't hold a postseason because of a second wave or because of there's an outbreak within multiple teams, something like that, and so that pool of money then ultimately would not go to the play. But I believe you're right that the agreement is not based on necessarily a number of games played, but saying 82 games, you will get paid for that. So in theory, if they only play a couple of weeks and have to shut it down,

I think I don't know. I haven't read the precise detail, but I think that means that the players would still get their full 82 games, you know, reduced pay, even if that happens. So net it out for me. Like right now, give me your best guess on May 27th. When, where, how? First of all, I do think there will be an agreement. Again, there's too much at stake here, and a lot of public posture is going on right now,

but when they are faced with a deadline. And I think that deadline is coming up in the next week to 10 days, if they're going to get this thing started when it needs to get started. So I think around June 1st, give or take, you're going to find the two, sides come to an agreement. Then it's a matter of, can they actually get this thing started? Roughly, hence the 15th is when they would want to resume spring training. Now, there's a big question there about where all these spring training are held, and it looks like it's going to be case-by-case, team-by-team deciding this. There are some teams that have already come out and said,

we're going to have it in our hometown, in our home stadiums, but there's no need to go to Florida or Arizona. There's not a weather concern and that they'd rather have everybody in one place that they could do, you know, where you know you're going to be for the season. And then there are other teams that feel like

they may need to go to the sport or whatever. I was told yesterday the Nats have not decided yet. It could go either way. They don't know. Part of this has to do with the mayor and what she decides as far as a stay-at-home order and can they make an exemption for the nationals or not. So there's that.

I think the season, you know, assuming it happens, we're talking July 4th, give or take, and then you're going to see three months of a regular season and then hopefully a full postseason in October. But there are so many steps along the way that could screw it up. And I hope that they have mapped it out so they know, hey, if this happens, here's how we do it. If this happens, here's how we respond to it. You don't want them to get caught in an unexpected situation. and they're going to be out in front of the other leagues by all accounts. And so they are the guinea pig.

And so there's a lot of pressure on them to get this thing right. It could work out great for the sport. TV ratings will be great. People are going to be watching what they never have before. But if something goes wrong, they're going to be viewed as the villains here more so than the NHL of the NBA by virtue of starting up first. Yeah, I think two points there. Number one, the NHL could beat them to the punch. here with the resumption of their season in a postseason format, which could benefit hockey

significantly, to be the only player out there, the only league out there playing, or even if it's just one of two leagues, or one of three. I mean, we're dying and have a massive appetite for this right now. Anyway, and two, to your point about, you know, having a plan, the only way, mark, these leagues can come back and play is if they all have an understanding that players, managers, coaches are more, are almost guaranteed to test positive. There are going to be some positive coronavirus tests, and we have to have a plan whereby we do not shut down a team or a league or the sport because of it. Because if that's going to be problematic to playing games, then what's the point?

Because I don't think anybody here would wager on there aren't going to be positive tests. Of course there are going to be. Yeah, it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. And you're right, they need to know how they're going to handle that without it causing a complete shutdown of everything. And what we've heard so far suggest that the plan would be to isolate the person that test positive and that they would not have to quarantine the entire team. Now, that's, you know, assuming a single player contracting it, what happens when there are three players on the same team or five players or ten people,

or if you see it across multiple teams who have played each other. That's where it gets complicated, and that's where they have to deal with this. And, you know, you hope and pray that it never gets to a point. that anybody gets seriously, you know, sick from this, or that it then transfers over to other family members and who else are they coming in contact with. So, I mean, there's a lot of danger here in doing this, but common sense says you can't even attempt to do this without some kind of risk involved. You know, otherwise, we're all waiting until the vaccine, and that could be two years

from now before we're doing anything. Of course. I think the meds hopefully come before that, and that would be. be a big moment too. We're talking to Mark Zuckerman. All right, two more things before I let you run for the day. First of all, if you're right, and baseball resumes or baseball starts, and we've got an 82 game schedule, it's a short sprint comparatively, into a postseason, does a team like Washington benefit from that? Veteran players coming off a championship season, not necessarily at, I understand that there is, you know, there's a couple of missing pieces from last year,

obviously, including a rather important third baseman. But for the most part, they're not relying or they're not going to be relying on, you know, a big-time young player, maybe Carter Keyboom, maybe to develop or something out of the minors to develop. Do you think the Nats would have an advantage in a short sprint season? I think on paper the answer is yes for a couple of reasons, and that is those veterans, especially the pitchers, what was the story in spring training? Well, what's the domino effect of all that extra work they did in October? Is that going to have a carryover into the season?

Well, that kind of thrown out the window. They will have had plenty of time to recover, and now you're only asking for, you know, 16 starts out of Scherzer and Strasbourg and Corbyn and not 32. too. So I think that helps. I think the fact that even if there are fewer off days and maybe even some doubleheaders, which is something that has been thrown out there, I think the Nats are pretty well positioned with their pitching depth by having more than one potential number five starters. Sure. Maybe Joe Roth and Austin both are both in a rotation at times if they need to use six guys,

and that's probably better than most games you have. I think the universal B.H, which everyone expects to be part of this, helps the match. Now you have Zimmerman, Cabrera, Kendrick, and all these veterans who maybe you were worried about finding a way to keep them in the lineup. Well, now they could play every day and take them wear and tear off their body by not being in the field. So I think on paper, it seems like it might benefit them, but this season isn't going to look like any other season we've ever seen before. Yeah, that's fair. And to have any idea how it's really going to play out, who knows. There could be all kinds of factors

that we don't even consider that could change the outcome of this season. I hope it is a representative season and that at the end of it we say, hey, that was a legitimate fair season and we think the champion was deserving. But it could get wacky. We have no idea.

It could turn into something very strange that we're not expecting just because of the unusual nature of it. Last thing, this virtual ring ceremony that they had intended to pull off over the weekend. Was it just catch everybody up to speed that wasn't, for the people that weren't paying attention, was it a bit of a fiasco ultimately?

It was a little bit. I think more than anything, it felt rushed, like it didn't necessarily have to happen yet. For a long time, everybody was saying, hey, we aren't going to do this stuff until we have fans and the fans that we can all do it together. And everybody supported that idea. I think what happened was they realized there aren't going to be fans in the stands in 2020.

And so are we willing to wait until 2021 to do that when, if there is a 2020 season with no fans, we may not be the defending camps anymore. And how does that look to do that ceremony when somebody else is having their own ceremony from having just won the World Series? How many of these players aren't even going to be on the team anymore? There are a bunch of guys whose contracts could be up after this season. So I think they looked at and said, maybe there's a way to do it now, to do it virtually and have all the players open their rings up together

and let the fans be part of that. And it sounded good until the players said, no, hang on a second. We want to do this together. We don't want to be apart from each other. It also sounds like not every single person who's going to receive their rings. There's only going to be a handful of them that actually opened them up. And so after the players spoke out against it, the team said, no, you know what?

All right, we're going to hold off. We'll unveil the design of it now, but we're going to wait until everyone's together to actually hand them out and have them work for the first time. There's no good outcome for all this. There's no way to make this be the way that it should be, which is that they should have gotten open a range on April 4th with 40,000 fans in the same. It could have been done better. Maybe they could have waited a little longer.

I think that would be my biggest takeaway from it. but there was no perfect chance. Unfortunately, this team doesn't get to celebrate the way that every other team that's ever won a series is able to celebrate it. I know it's crazy. But hope you know what, that day's more likely than not coming this year. But, you know, if 2021 has a normal opening day in late March, early April, they should do it then even if they aren't the defending champions at that point.

Yeah, I think so No matter You know, whether the defending champs, whether they give out the ring Whatever is involved That first game back with fans Is going to be a huge deal It's going to be a special occasion For everybody involved

And I'm sure they will find a way To make it something special Whether the guys have their rings already or not Agreed Thank you so much for making time today Appreciate it. Stay healthy and we'll talk soon, Mark. Sounds good. Thanks a lot, Kevin.

All right, Kevin. Good catching up with Mark. Always appreciate that. And I do think this Major League Baseball situation between players and owners is very interesting to watch. You know, that proposal that the owners put out there yesterday to significantly cut salaries, but based on sort of a tiered cut,

you know, the higher paid players are going to get more, a larger percentage cut, the lesser paid players, a less percentage cut. You get a guy making 30 million bucks a year, 20 million bucks a year, and he's got to take a 30% pay cut, you know, for this year, but he's still making $6 million in the case of the $20 million guy,

or, you know, in the case of the $30 million guy, $9 million bucks a year, no one's going to understand if that guy has a problem with it. No one will. The players rejected that proposal from the owners yesterday, Apparently, they've got another offer coming from the Players Association soon. We'll see how it plays out. Mark seems to be optimistic. All right, one last thing before we go for the day. On this day, I just happened to have seen this on Sports Center this morning,

on this day in 1981, so 39 years ago, Julius Irving, Dr. Jay, made history, became the first player and the only player named NBA MVP, after winning an ABA MVP award. He was the ABA most valuable player with the New York Nets, and he became the NBA MVP in 1981 with the Philadelphia 76ers. The 76ers that year lost to the Celtics, blew a 3-1 series lead in the Eastern Conference finals, lost to the Celtics. The Celtics went on to beat the Rockets in the final. Dr. Jay said on this day 39 years ago, since I'd been in the NBA, only two things had not happened yet. One was being named MVP and the other was winning a championship.

Now there's only one. I feel it could happen soon. So it didn't happen that year because they didn't beat Boston. It would happen two years later when one Moses Malone was added to the lineup and Moses was dominant. on the 83-6ers team that ended up sweeping the LA Lakers in the NBA finals in a playoffs where they went, as Moses famously said. He said faux, foe, foe.

And it ended up being, I think, 4-5-4. I think they won the Eastern Conference finals in five games over the bucks, if my memory serves me correctly. All right, we're done for the day. Don't forget, listen to me on the Team 980, the team 980 app, the team 980.com. 980 or 95.9 FM if you're in and out in about 6 to 9 a.m. Weekday mornings. Back tomorrow with Tommy.