The Kevin Sheehan Show - Rivera Speaks On QB Depth Chart

Episode Date: February 23, 2022

Kevin had Ben Standig on the show after Ben interviewed Ron Rivera for The Athletic. The guys discussed an interesting answer from Rivera about what the QB depth chart will look like next year. They also talked about the current Washington free agents and how many of them are likely to re-sign and stay in DC. They discussed briefly the conclusion to the "Crest" controversy and then Kevin finished the show with why two teams in the NFC East would be better trade partners for Seattle if they decide to trade Russell Wilson.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Don't forget to rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify. Apple in particular, most of you listen on Apple. Rate us five stars, if you don't mind.

A quick one to two sentence review helps a lot. Appreciate those that have done it recently and appreciate in advance those of you that can do it here soon. We are in a sales push right now here in the first quarter of 2022, and the Apple ratings and reviews really do help. Ben Standing is with us to start the show. There may be another guest at the end of the show. I'm waiting to hear back from that person.

If we don't get that person today, it'll probably be tomorrow. Tommy won't be on tomorrow. He'll be on Friday this week, and there's a chance that Cooley will make an appearance this week, if not this week, more likely next. But Ben is with us because Ben just interviewed Ron Rivera. You can read that story that he just posted on The Athletic where Ben writes, totally worth subscribing. Ben covers this team as well as anybody does.

Most of you know that he's one of my favorites. I think he's got a ton of information, and I think he's very good at taking that information and then creating opinion around that as well. Ben's got a podcast, too. standing room only, you can get that podcast wherever you get a podcast. So a lot of your story, and I've read it, we won't, you know, read through it. We'll make people go read it on their own and hopefully pay to read it. It's not that expensive.

The athletic isn't totally worth it. But let's start with what Ron Rivera said about the quarterback position. Yeah, well, Kevin, I appreciate the PR love there. You're always very good to me, and your listeners are the ones who I hear from the most. So I appreciate everybody there on that front. So look, I mean, it's funny, like, this is where my own, like, self-deprecating vibes coming to kick, come into play. Like, Ron Rivera is not a, in theory, a hard interview to get. The guy did probably like a 10 or dozen interviews during Super Bowl week, you know, unlike most coaches or GMs who kind of locked themselves away.

So we've heard him give the stump speech over and over again about, you know, why he thinks Washington is an attractive place. He's basically not been hiding it too, too much that they're going to go try to get a quarterback. But to me, I still wanted to have some questions because I think the beat's going to drill down deeper in ways with him than others would. And among those, like, okay, you did lose out the average of the Rams last year. So beyond the fact that that's got a, you know, sting a little bit, they then won the Super Bowl.

So to what degree Do you think that the Rams winning the Super Bowl with that sort of all-in approach is going to reshape how people think and then he brought it back to that well look the bucks also the previous year we went with the quarterback

in a different way of a get Brady and then they go straight to the Super Bowl and his response essentially to me was look if you think you have the pieces in place and then can go get that guy if you you know and you've got the capital with picks or players to get it done

why wouldn't you do it? And again, something like that may not sound like a massive note, but to me it is significant because it's like, we can all keep sitting here and saying he's going to do things, and people like me can report that they're going to be aggressive, but like

he kind of lays it, he kind of lays it out there that, yeah, I mean, we're really going to try for this, this is at least my interpretation, but that said, he also then says something in here that lets it be clear that that's probably not going to be the likely option

because for all the reason we've been talking about on your various shows over the last few weeks, and that is, why would Green Bay or Seattle trade their star quarterback, et cetera? So he then got into more detail with me about how he sort of sees the depth chart, and I think that also gave further clues as to what the reality is. And I think both of those things together make for an interesting

portrait of where things stand right now. Okay, so before he gave you kind of a reality thing, because there is a quote in your story that I think was very interesting in terms of what the quarterback position will look like on the roster next year. When you just said that he kind of alluded to or implied the realities that we've discussed like, okay, you can swing for Aaron Rogers, you can swing for Russell Wilson, but you're probably not going to land on either one of them because, Because, you know, both of them more likely than that will stay where they are. And then if they are going to get dealt, you know, these teams are going to look to the AFC first. And then in Rogers case, primarily, you know, there may be more attractive, you know, destinations for him. And Washington's probably not. I don't know that for a fact.

Probably not on his list. I personally think Russell Wilson, the possibility of him being a Washington commander, is much higher than that of Aaron. and Rogers being one, but I don't think the odds are very high, period. So in understanding that reality that you and I have discussed, and many listening have discussed with each other over the last several months, how did he kind of give you a clue that he understands that reality, or did he say it? Well, I mean, to a degree when he's answering some of these questions, he isn't necessarily answering it as the guy in charge of the Washington

commanders, he's answering it sort of as, well, look, if you need a quarterback, why wouldn't you, you know, consider doing certain moves, including trading players? Well, obviously, as we're pointing out, like a bunch of other teams are in the same spot, Denver, Carolina, Pittsburgh, among others. So, like, it's not like they wouldn't have competition. So I think from that perspective alone, there's a certain reality. But when we got to the depth chart, and I don't remember exactly how

how I phrased the question, but he basically said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that the death chart will likely have a veteran, then it will likely have another veteran, and then it will likely have a rookie. And everything I just said may be like, well, duh, that doesn't make any difference. Well, but it does.

And here's why it makes a difference. One, I did clarify with him, I'm like, okay, I'm assuming Taylor Heineke's one of the veteran. He's like, yeah, that's a fair assumption. last year, Kevin, I'm sure you recall, before we even knew that Fitzpatrick would be here, Rivera said over and over and over and over again that there would be a quarterback competition. Have you heard that mention one time this year? No.

He's not said that ever, as far as I now, maybe not ever, but, you know, he's not saying that that's not part of his stump speech when it comes to the quarterback. So in other words, he thinks he's going to get a quarterback better than Taylor Heineke. So that's of note. But if you're saying you're going to grab the... Well, better than Ryan Fitzpatrick by using simple deduction, too. If he talked about a quarterback competition last year and he's not talking about one this year, well, it's not just better than Heineke, it's better than Fitzpatrick. Right, although I think in that case, there was never actually,

we knew there was never actually a quarterback competition based on all variables. Understood, yes. But by the way, there is sort of keep going with his spiel. He can't speak to a quarterback competition now anyway, because there's only one quarterback under contract on the team? Right, right, 100%. I just think like he was, like, his mantra coming out of the previous season was he screwed up not having a Dwayne Haskins, Kyle Allen competition, thus that was for him the goal going into the next year.

Now he's not saying that because there wasn't, he never had a competition this year and then, you know, like you said, there's nobody else. But anyway, but the secondary point is when he says they're going to draft their rookie. Now, yeah, technically you could draft the rookie in the seventh round, but that's not, you don't say that. If you're saying it, the inference is it's going to be someone of significance. Well, you can't draft the quarterback in the first round if you trade your first round picks or get Russell Wilson, right? So we can just start with that. If you're, you know what I mean?

Like that, that's a thing. Two, even if you're going to draft in the first or second round, this quarterback class, while it's not considered to be elite because you don't have a Trevor Lawrencey type prospect, the top five guys are all projected somewhere in the top 50 picks, and then there's maybe only one or two more quarterbacks who are going to get picked for sure after that. So you're basically saying you're drafting a quarterback in the first two rounds. This would be my impression of what he is saying.

And again, if you're going to do that, that means you didn't get a veteran of significance, because why would you trade, even if you somehow could keep your picks, why would you draft a quarterback in the first two rounds, having just gotten Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, Derek Carr, or whatever. So like I said, nothing I just said is definitive proof of anything. But if we're going to play the game of what do we think is going to happen, I think there are some clues there to what he's thinking is. Let me read the quote again, because I think you kind of paraphrase the quote,

but you got it almost verbatim. Quote from Ron Rivera on the quarterback depth chart for 2022 for the Washington commanders. This is part of the interview that Ben did with Ron yesterday. Quote, we're more than likely going to have a veteran on the roster, more likely we'll have another veteran, and more than likely have an opportunity to have a rookie on the roster as well. Closed quote.

Now, you added a piece to this that's not in your story. You said, I want to make sure I heard this correctly, I don't think you were referring to last year. You said about one of the veterans that he, implied that one of the veterans would be Taylor Heineke? Yeah, I think I did. I think that's included in the story that I didn't see that. Yeah, I specifically asked him if we can assume that one of those quarterbacks is Heineke,

and he said, yeah, that's a fair assumption. But at the same time, oh, yes, it is here. You're right. His roster spot, you right, appears safe. I think that's a fair assumption, Rivera said. So, so now we're down. to a veteran and a rookie on the roster as well. I think you're right.

You don't talk about a rookie on the roster. I don't think you do when he says more than likely have an opportunity to have a rookie on the roster. I don't think you just, well, I guess you could just be thinking it's going to be Taylor Heineke and we're going to get, you know, a starting veteran quarterback that isn't going to be one of the stars. And then we're going to add somebody in a middle round. he could mean that. You don't think he means that. Well, what I'm saying is that

whether he inferred this or not, again, like, let's just say, like you've been asking me on your radio show for the last few weeks, what's my prediction of the depth chart? And I've been saying, Mitch Trabisky, Taylor Heineke, and I can't remember if I've been going

with Pickett or Will. You went with Ritter. I think he went with Ritter the last time. Ritter? Okay. Okay. So, and that's, yeah, And I have Ritter in my mock draft. No, no, no.

On February 18th, which was the last time on the radio show, you and I both had the exact same. You had, actually, you, Brendan and I all had Trabiski, Malik Willis, Taylor Heineke. I just add, actually Brendan said only two quarterbacks, Trabisky and Willis. And I said third stringer, most likely, Taylor Heineke. Yeah.

And like, you know, Heinkees, I've always just a same. it's just a no-brainer to keep him. He's obviously shown he can play. And again, unless you're guaranteeing you're getting Russell Wilson or somebody, then, you know, I mean, why would I even think about getting rid of, I want to keep three guys, you know, basically no matter what. In any event, I sort of lost where I, uh, well, on the rookie quarterback. Um, and why. Oh, yeah. So, yeah. So, again, if you look at this class, everybody talks about the top guys in some order. It's Kenny Pickett, Malik Willis, Matt Corral,

Sam Howe, and Desmond Ritter. Depending who you talk to, they order is the Barry. But the general sense is that all these guys are probably going to go in the first two rounds, if not the first 40 or 50 picks, just sort of because. And then after that, you've got a guy like Carson Strong, and some people like and maybe goes in day two somewhere. And then after that, it's kind of like, I don't know, Bailey Zappy is the other guy who get some attention, but I've had people tell me that he's overrated.

And then really, from there, you're just like, at best, you're just taking a complete dart on some guy in the late day three just to see. So to me, if you're Brown-River, you're not bothering mentioning the late-day-three guy in that capacity. And if I'm telling you the top five guys are off the board in the first 50 picks, what are we saying? Carson-strong is the one guy you're targeting in the middle of the round. So the evidence would suggest to me, if we're looking at this forensically, that he's saying that, you know, again, unless they get a significant quarterback in the veteran market that they're going to take a quarterback somewhere in the first two rounds, or at least that would be their hope.

I mean, look, if Malik Willis and Kenny Pickett go before 11 and they don't love anybody else, well, then maybe they're screwed. But, you know, that would be my assumption right now. And again, I think it goes into the whole point of there's no guarantee that any of the star quarterbacks are available. And even if they were, the Washington would get them no matter how much we're going to keep trying to do the bail fist. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I don't know, I think your theory on what he means essentially, or, you know, your guess on what he means is probably a totally logical one. Of course, we're leaving out who the first veteran is. You know, if we say that one of those, you know, top 40 quarterbacks, top 40 to 50 quarterback picks is going to be, one of them will be theirs. And one of the two veterans is Taylor Heineke.

Who's the other veteran going to be? Because if we scratch Rogers, Wilson, Watson off the list, you know, we're back to, you know, what we've thought for a while now. Mitch Trubisky. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a little harder to, you know, I didn't really bother with the, hey, are you going to drink? Well, he's not really. Yeah. I didn't bother with any of that.

But, like, you know, whatever anybody wants to debate, whether Tribisky or Marriota or Bridgewater, none of that matters. What matters is that none of those guys would come in and be viewed as anything that the fans would find interesting. That's the only way to really change the narrative around here, which is obviously has to be factored in on some level, is to then draft a rookie pretty high. Now, I'm not saying they would draft the rookie pretty high just to change the narrative, but I am saying, even if you're Ron Rivera, like, are you really going to just go into a year with Mitch Trubisky and Taylor Hineke and just like hope that everything works out and you get 10 wins with no – like, if you draft the rookie, as we've all discussed, that buys you in theory a couple of years

because you're allowed to let that player develop, at least in theory, right? So, like, that's another reason to do it if we're really just talking pure job preservation. Now, I'm not saying that Ron Rivera is making decisions like that. I'm thinking he's a human being who thinks. And people make all kinds of choices of life, whether they want to acknowledge it or not, based on their own situation and status. So, you know, it would just be logical that if you don't get at least a Garoppola or higher quarterback, that you're going to draft a quarterback at a basic level just to take a shot and give yourself the opportunity of hope, because otherwise they don't really have much.

You know, on Mitch Trubisky, for those that miss this, Jeremy Fowler's column yesterday, quarterbacks in free agency, NFL free agency, could Mitch Trubisky, Marcus Marriota, be legit starting QB options in 2022? On Trubisky, he writes, Trebisky toiled in the shadows for months in Buffalo, juggling all the tasks that make backups valuable, emulating Patrick Mahomes on scout team, dissecting defenses on a tablet with coaches, and challenging jobs. Allen to heated games between film sessions. The way safety Jordan Poir saw it, Tribusky was too good to be a scout team quarterback.

And after watching Trubisky layer over route passes out of a defensive backs range in practice, he reached a conclusion. The bill's backup QB should still start in the league. 1,000 percent, Poir said. and there's more an AFC exec on Trubisky. I could see him going into a situation where he can be a starting option and the team drafts a quarterback. He'll have to go out there and earn it,

but there's certainly enough there where the right offense can accommodate him. He said the offense in Chicago was pretty rigid and on script, and I'm not sure that suited him. Anyway, positive things, there are many more positive things said about Trubisky. in this particular Jeremy Fowler story. So here's the thing about Trubisky. There could be competition for Mitch Trubisky. Last year, there wouldn't have been competition for Mitch Trubisky

if Washington had been interested and told him that he was going to come in and start, or, you know, like they did with Ryan Fitzpatrick, you're going to have a really good chance to start, although I think they told Fitzpatrick he's going to start. This year, do you agree with him? me or not, that there might be more competition for Mitch Trubisky, and he may have more choices. Yeah, I mean, in the story that I wrote, I don't know, a month ago, whenever it was during the playoffs that was sort of mainly focused on Garapolo, and I was telling people not to Blanch,

if I say Garoppel is the best guy available, I said, if you really are fretting about him, well, then you're going to take a deep breath when I tell you that not only is Mitch Trubisky, somebody that we should keep an eye on, they may not even be able to just simply snatch a up because other teams are going to say, oh, wait a minute, he's arguably going to be better than what's out there. And, like, I think what people don't, like, look, I always point back to the RG3, the end of the RG3 era here, as how to consider a lot of the national conversations. And that is when it became clear, the year that Kirk Cousins ultimately supplant RG3,

prior to that, and people like me, well, I wasn't writing a ton of men, but people like me, and I'm sure you talking on the radio or others who were on the beat covering the team all recognized that Kirk Cousins was the better option. And the only real question was, how do you make this move knowing you're going to get a PR backlash locally at least, right? But then the national perspective was this is insane.

What is Washington doing dumping RG3 for this Kirk Cousin's guy who's never shown to be anything? Well, obviously we saw how it played out. I view Trubisky, at least I wonder about Trubisky, sort of in the same general like. Like, I totally get it. He has not lived up to the status of being the second pick of the draft in, what, 2017. It made even worse when he was picked ahead of Mahomes and Watson.

And, like, there's, you know, there's questions, right? About his overall game, right? I haven't talked to anybody who's, like, overly enthused. That said, they made the Bears, he was a starting quarterback for two teams that went to the playoffs. They had a winning record overall in his career and really even better when you consider that the first year as a rookie, I think he was like four and eight or something. The head coach there just got fired in part because, you know, I don't think he was inspiring a lot of confidence overall and with his offense.

And Trubisky's got a lot of athletic traits, as you just mentioned in that story. So I said last year, it's not like that, I mean, obviously Fitzpatrick was probably the best they could do for the intermediate placeholder role that they were going for, but that I would have strongly considered going with a guy like Trubesk, because I don't know what he will be. He might completely stink, but there's more potential. And right now, I don't know, maybe if he's here, and he's, if the Jordan Poir stuff is, if that's how Landon and Collins and Cam Curl see, see Trisky, then maybe we're sitting here

going, well, Washington has something decent at quarterback, maybe not great, maybe we're all still saying you need to get Russell Wilson, but like, you know, something with some potential. And that's why I think that he is, he's interesting. But again, this has a lot about the landscape overall, that there's just not a ton of options. And the way one scout phrased it, or not one scout, but one executive phrased it to me is, if you think Mitch Trubisky is kind of whatever,

then don't draft any of these quarterbacks at 11, because most of them are probably Mitch Trubisky. So if you're better off the signing Mitch Trubisky off the street than going for these guys, probably. Yeah. Back to the quote for just one second, because I do think that in your interview and your story on your discussion with Ron Rivera, that's the one that kind of sticks out as much as any other, and it's just, you know, the quarterback depth chart. You know, veteran, veteran, rookie. You said something, and this to me really hammers at home. they have to have a quarterback on the roster next year that generates some interest.

So, you know, drafting a quarterback in the first round is, you know, a splash. You know, drafting a Malik Willis or a Kenny Pickett, it's a bigger splash than any of the non-first-tier free agent or trade. targets at quarterback. You know, unless it were a Derek Carr, and I don't think either one of us think that Derek Carr is going to be available. And to me, it's definitely not Jimmy G. It's not Marietta. It's not Wents. It's not Winston. It's not Bridgewater. It's not Ty Taylor. You know, it's not Trubisky. Any of those players, if they become Washington players here in the offseason, the rookie is going to generate much more of a splash, which is why, you know, if they don't land Wilson or Rogers or Watson, and I think the Watson thing now is becoming really a long shot, given that we

won't even know until April 1st if he's going to be criminally charged with anything. So if they don't land on Rogers or Wilson, and let's just say they don't, then they're drafting a quarterback. And if they're drafting a quarterback, the veteran's going to come from this other tier, and it's going to be our guest from day one. It's going to be like a Trubisky, a Willis, and Taylor Heineke. And that's what you're going to end up with. Those are right now, hold on, let me just check my bookie at mybooky.g, mybooky.com. The overwhelming, even money favorite right now is a second or third tier free agent or trade quarterback, Taylor Heineke, and a rookie quarterback selected in the first round. Those are the heavy, that's the heavy

betting favorite now. Any odds maker would come in and tell you right now, that's what they're going to end up with. That's almost, you know, it truly is almost even money that it's going to end up in that. And we don't know which of the veteran quarterbacks it's going to be, and we don't know which of the rookie quarterbacks it's going to be, but it's going to be that combination of Marriota, Pickett, and Heineke, or Tribisky, Willis and Heineke, or Bridgewater and Desmond Ritter and Heineke, because if they strike out on Wilson, Rogers, and Watson, they have to draft a quarterback in this offseason. They need interest in this team. Yeah, for sure, and I'll just say that, like, I talked to Rivera.

I don't know if that length is the right term, but like, you know, we talked for a little bit, and I'm going to hopefully have a second article up off of this conversation, and it's delved more into sort of the mindset of where things are, not just for Rivera, but also kind of with this organization and stuff, and it kind of gets into what you're talking about. But, yeah, I mean, ultimately, that is a huge deal. It's impossible. Like, we're all hoping that we never hear that Dan's not. showed up in the war room, right?

Let's just say that's even true. He's in the headlines. But you can't just pretend, you can't just bury your head in the same. I know Rivera has said repeatedly, we're moving forward now. This name change that gives us a fresh start. And obviously we've seen in the last couple weeks

how that's just not remotely accurate. Well, like, you can't just sit here and say that they don't need to, they shouldn't at least consider doing something significant at that position if for no other reason then to just change the headline. Like in the mock draft that I did, just because I was almost like annoyed,

that no, everybody was giving them a quarterback at all time, even though we keep talking about they're going to go get a veteran of some note. So I didn't, I went with a defensive player at 11, and then I gave them Desmond Ritter in the second round,

and we can get into that in a second if you want. But my, my, like that's like sort of more of the football view. But if you're, but when you're factory in real life stuff, it's hard to not just pretend that doesn't matter. I think it does.

And by the way, here's how you also know it matters. Like you said, whatever quarterback they would pick in the first round would be the one that people would be excited to see over Trubisky or Heineke or Heineke or Hineke or Bridgewater or whatever. Unless Washington starts the year 3-1, 4-0, people will be claiming for that guy to start immediately. And we all probably have a guest of Ron Rivera or any coach in that spot will eventually cave. even if the guy isn't ready because at some point, because at some point it just gets to be too much. I don't know if it's caving anymore in this day and age.

It just doesn't happen very often that a guy that is legit sits for, you know, a year or two. I mean, the Patrick Mahomes examples are the, you know, are very much the exceptions. The guys that ended up sitting are guys that are sitting because they actually can't play. By the way, of the rookie quarterbacks, It's my belief, and I know that this was kind of the discussion coming out of Mobile. But after watching a lot of Malik Willis and having watched live, when I say live, on television a lot, Matt Corral, Sam Hal, Kenny Pickett, Willis, by far and away, to me, has the highest ceiling. Although I don't think that Kenny Pickett's ceiling is that low.

Like I think his ceiling's pretty high as well. But Willis is the one that looks different and looks like, oh my God, if he is the real deal, if he loves football, if he's a student of the game, if he's a gym rat, if he's a leader, if he's all these other things, coachable, you know, all of these other things. Oh, my God, his talent is, it jumps off the, you know, the tape when you watch it in terms of trying to project on swinging for the fences with a young guy. And by the way, all the talk about, you know, whether or not the quarterback, this is a good quarterback class or a bad quarterback class, we'll know in five years or three years probably whether or not it was what everybody said it was. And I'm not convinced that they'll be right. I just don't think that they're ever, you know, these things are ever a certainty. I think these are the hardest things that, you know, they do and that we do from afar, which is evaluate and project college talent to the NFL. level. It's a hard thing. Look at their hit rate. A good draft hit rate is like 35%. Like 35% of your draft if five years later or three years later, you've got 35% of that draft contributing at a meaningful level, then that draft was a good draft. There have been too many of these drafts that have been so strong or so weak and they're wrong on them. So I don't know that we know that for sure.

But anyway, netting it out on the key, go ahead. Well, I just want to say like, and I think I have to watch what I say on these things, too. It's not like, and people will throw it back in our face, you know, collective faces in two years if, you know, Mac Corral and Sam Howe are, you know, legitimate starters. I thought you guys all said this is a bad draft. Well, no, what we're saying, nobody is saying it's a bad draft. What people are saying is it lacks the upside of the other ones.

Thus, you're not, it's a much harder projection to see any of these quarterbacks being what you think a star quarterback in this league is. But that's, you know, I mean, that's different than saying these guys are horrendous and shouldn't be picked, which is I think what people start to infer when we say things like, it's not a great draft. So it's just a level of variance of what the potential for this guy is. And you don't obviously want to draft a guy at any position really in the top 10 or 15, who you don't think is a multi-time pro ball or. let alone a definitive starter, and that will be the case for any position.

Yeah, I mean, what people are really doing, and we're talking about the people that actually for their living, their profession, is to evaluate drafts. They're just evaluating these drafts based on how they felt about previous drafts. It's not, you know, if you want to evaluate whether or not they were right on their evaluation, that's like something different. They look at the quarterback class and they say, this is, in the moment compared to the same moment in 2020 or the same moment in 2018, we're evaluating these quarterbacks at a lot, you know, at a lower value, at a lesser value

than we did when it was Mayfield and Darnold and, you know, et cetera. You know, because we can, we have all the examples, you know, we have all the positives, like the Justin Herberts and the, I mean, hell, Josh Allen, it wasn't just that people were skeptical about him. they were skeptical about him two years into his career, you know, and at the same time, I mean, at this point right now, you know, tank for Tua, he ends up going fifth, and it looks like he's a distant third among,

maybe a distant fourth among the quarterbacks taken in that draft if you include Jalen Hertz. So anyway, we both right now are of the belief that the odds on favorite is kind of what we think Ron was describing to you, which is Taylor Heineke, a rookie early, and one of these

second to third tier free agents from the Bridgewater, Tribisky, Marriota, Winston, you know, Ty Taylor list. You know, Jimmy G. and Wentz, let me just, because I don't think you

and I have talked a lot about Wentz, but right now, do you think they would be interested in Well, I mean, obviously I don't know what they think. I don't know necessarily what they think of him as a football player, but part of his narrative out of the cult was that his season was derailed because he wouldn't get the vaccine. After everything that happened here this past year,

I'm going to guess Ron Rivera is not going that way. So that would be my broad assumption, but in terms of the rest of it, you know, I mean, they're not going to, I wouldn't think they would trade for him. So if he becomes an act, if they just release him, and then I guess if, you know, you strike out on the, bigger names and even Jimmy Keyes gone and you're looking at

Trubisky and Bridgewater and Wentz. I mean, you know, he's probably the same general boat, but I would think those other variables would... Again, everybody said that if Frank Reich who wanted Wentz, who was Wentz's guy in Philly, says he's had enough, then that's a

huge red flag for me on top of what I just said about the vaccine stuff. Yeah, the Wentz stuff you've had now back-to-back teams that basically reading the tea leaves or just reading anonymous quotes from the Eagles, you know, you've got two straight teams that just don't like them. They don't like them. So, you know, trying to build a culture here, you're certainly not going to trade, you know, that much. In fact, you'd almost have to be incented by taking

his contract with maybe a pickback from Indianapolis. So one last thing on the quarterbacks, and then I'll just ask you real quickly about the other things that Ron Rivera said. So of the quarterbacks that they've actually been rumored and or reported. I'll put it that way. The two are, in terms of, you know, after Russell Wilson, Watson, et cetera, I think the two are Tribusky and Marriota. Like those are the two. You know, there was some Marriota conversation last year. There was some Trubisky conversation last year. There was some Trubisky conversation before the trade deadline. Both of them fit the, you know, mobile quarter. back description that they're looking for.

Neither one of them has really, you know, some of you have probably already seen what their upside is, but there is belief from others out there that neither one of them has really achieved what their true ceiling is. To me, it's one of those two. Do you think anybody else would be in the mix? Well, I mean, I think I'd have to consider Bridgewater, right? because Marty Herney is the one that brought him to Carolina, and he's not the one that got rid of him in Carolina that happened after Marty

Herney was out. So, you know, on the assumption that, you know, like Teddy Bridgewater is like a totally reasonable quarterback. And if you have a good, if the defense plays like a near top 10 level, like, you know, we saw in the previous year, and they don't have the crazy injuries, and you tell me if Bridgewater is the quarterback, like, you know, I'm not saying that's great, but like, you know, I think in a one game

playoff scenario. I wouldn't be going, wow, this is a massive problem, but at the same point, he doesn't have the flashy upside these other guys. He's obviously now flipped around the league a bunch of times. There's a reason for that. I just think that I would consider him

only because of the hernia connection and that he's a totally reasonable guy who I've not heard bad things about. He just does not... Great. Apparently a great goal. Apparently a great guy and always a beloved teammate. What about all three of these guys with respect to what we talked about

2015 minutes ago? Do you think that Ron would present either one of these three as someone who's going to compete with Taylor Heineke and the rookie for a starting spot? Right. By the way, here's the other components. And it's like I let us say there is that notion of a competition. It's one of those veterans. they draft the rookie in the first round in Heineke.

Like, I know I've talked to Jay Gruden about this a couple of years ago, and he was like, you can't, or maybe last year after, you know, whatever. But he was like, you can't really have a three-way quarterback competition in camp. There's not enough reps, and especially if one guy as a rookie, you know, he kind of had a deal with this back in 20 his last year when you had Keenham, McColle, McColloy, and Haskins, and Haskins obviously, you know, needed a lot of work just being a rookie. So if they did draft the quarterback in the first round, it's probably that guy and this veteran, this outside veteran in the competition with Heineke hanging out, knowing Heineke knows

the system and can just jump in as needed. So, yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, that's the thing, right? I don't think any of these guys are going to give you enough cushion to say, yep, Washington so definitively improves their quarterback spot that you wouldn't have the rookie being, you know, somebody you would want to, you know, present as a potential starter. I would say, maybe I'm wrong on this, but just in terms of the PR aspect, I kind of do think Teddy Bridgewater would be an upgrade over Trubisky? Like, I'm not saying Bridgewater is great, but I just feel like the Teddy Bridgewater thing

going back to college. Like that guy, you know, was a star in college. He's been good in the NFL pre-injury. Like, I think people could talk themselves more to him. Tribisky is the one where I'm like, I think people would have a really, hard time buying that one. And even though I, like I stated before, I think there's a reason to be at least somewhat intrigued. I think Bridgewater is an easier sell, even though it's still not even close to being, you know, what anybody would want at that position. None of them

are splashes like the rookie would be. All of them are better than Heineke. And to me, I've watched a lot of Tribisky here recently. Not Tribusky. Bridgewater. I'm not a big Tribusky fan. I'm either, but I think Trubisky's ceiling is probably much higher and maybe even Marriottas as well. But I'm not disagreeing with you that maybe Bridgewater comes with more cachet in terms of the three and the reaction, but it's still not a splash. You know, it would have been more of a splash last year, much more of a splash last year. He struggled at times, you know, with a team that desperately needs a quarterback in Denver, and it obviously wasn't him that ended up being able to fill the bill. All right, let's keep Ben around for another few minutes. Let's find out what Ron Rivera said in addition to the quarterback discussion, and let's talk a little Crest Gate as well.

We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Okay, what else did Rivera say of note about anything non-quarterback related? Yeah, I mean, that I included in here, I felt compelled to in the last couple seconds I had with him to just say, hey, quickly, where are we at with some of your contract negotiation situations? And, you know, he had no significant update for me on Tara McCorn or Duron Payne, but he did say that the combine next week where basically, you know, the whole league will be there, not just prospects, but all the teams and all the agents that he anticipated speaking with the agents for both of those players there. there, and he made it, you know, clear again that he really, you know, they really want those guys back. I don't, that seems to jive with anything I've heard and makes logical sense. The more interesting question, I think, is, you know, with pain, the idea of, are you really going to extend your two tackles with the two pass rushers coming up after that, you know, can you, can you legitimately afford to ultimately extend all four of these guys and doesn't even make, proper asset allocation sense, but the order is what the order is, and Duran Payne's a good player,

and, you know, the reality is that that punch with John Allen aside, that whole thing, you know, he and Alan form a good combo, and, you know, they are more stable than the two guys on the end, at least based off of last year. So, you know, I would assume right now if things are heading towards the idea of those guys getting assigned. Of course, with Payne, we should remember Allen's extension didn't come until literally minutes before the start. of training camp in July. So just because they talk, now it doesn't mean anything will get done. And by the way, this is the other part of the quarterback situation.

There's a big difference in terms of how much salary cap space they have potentially. If they sign anybody, if they add anybody from the Garoppolo level up, which is $25 million or more per year, depending on how you play with the, you know, how you manipulate the salary cap versus, you know, a Trubisky or somebody like that is probably under 10, I would think, easily, right, per year. So that's a big difference in terms of the money you have, and that's important to know for free agents and also for things like, you know, what are we giving Geron Payne or Terry McCorn?

All right. A little bit of off-season guessing here. I'm going to mention the name, and you answer yes or no as to whether or not they're on this roster next year. All right. J.D. McKissick. I'll say yes. Bobby McCain.

I'll say yes, but I don't know. I mean, I'm only hesitated because, like, I don't know. I mean, he was fine, but, I mean, you know, can they do more? Would be my question. D'Andre Carter? Yes. Ricky Seals Jones. Yes, I would guess.

Cornelius Lucas. I'm going to guess no, because I would think that some team out there might offer him a chance to start. He's not getting that here. Adam Humphreys. I'll say no. No to Brandon Sheriff, right? Yeah, that was the other thing we discussed with Rivera. I mean, he just confirmed that they're not giving,

we all knew they were giving them the third tag, but we didn't even, like, I don't even bother discussing Sheriff with Rivera because I can't see how it's remotely happening. So, yeah, I've moved on with Sheriff for my life. Landing Collins. Can I, let me just caveat like this. If they intend to spend a first round pick or a high pick or good money on a a linebacker, then I just don't know how you're keeping Landon Collins because you already

have Jamie Davis and Cole Holcomb. I mean, are you going to have Landon Collins on your books for $16 million playing 30 snaps or so a game? That just doesn't seem ideal. So this is the dilemma. He was better, obviously, once they made the position switch. But can you, you know, do they actually see a large enough role for him if they address the Mike Linebacker spot in a significant way?

So I'm shocking myself by saying he stays, but we're talking like 51-49. I don't feel very comfortable about it. I mean, I think there's a chance he stays under a total restructured deal, you know, because I don't think, I don't think despite your most recent mock draft, I think there's the quarterbacks going with their first round pick if they have it. And if they don't have it, it meant that they got a quarterback. Joey Sly. I mean, he's their best player.

They have. better for you. They have to sign him. All right. So let's finish up with your thoughts on the Commander's Crest Controversy conclusion, which came yesterday when they tweeted out a picture of the updated crest, which included the accurate Super Bowl winning seasons of 1982, 1987, 1991, replacing the mistake that they made to start with when they had 1983, 1988, and

1982 on this crest, which is the only crest that I can figure out exists in the NFL. It's very much a soccer thing. But consider it to be somewhat of an extension of their logo. This is something that's already appearing on sweatshirts and t-shirts

and coffee mugs, etc. The team tweeted out the new crest and wrote We heard you loud and clear. Going forward, our crest will reflect our Super Bowl victories using the year from that regular season. Ben, your reaction to them changing the crest. I mean, similar to where your reaction was, I think, at the beginning, like,

it's insane that they had the years wrong. I generally don't care about the crest. In general, and the idea that this is beginning, so many people, like, super worked up is funny to me. I think they came up with the only solution that made sense, so I'm glad they at least did that and it's good that they didn't just like fall on some prideful vision and say screw everybody else we're doing what we want and we don't care if you think it's wrong so at least it did that much but yeah to the rest of it like oh man like i kind of get i am kind of getting a little tired of the whole like the world's got to apologize for everything at all times but like specifically though my real take for this is it's i don't care about this crest it is just another ump team it's just

another example of how they can't just ever seem to do anything right. And you want to blame, whoever you want to blame, Jason Wright, people in his department, whatever, I don't really care. Ultimately, this is all goes back, every single thing you can trace back to almost no matter what goes back to the ownership. And I know that the crest is like, come on, this is hardly the biggest topic when it comes to the owner, but it's all applicable. He, whoever has that job hires the people who hire the other people who hire the other people. They say, set the tone for what's acceptable, whether we're talking about office behavior or how we do our job here, whatever the thing is. And like, it's just another example of how, how could you

box this? It doesn't seem that complicated, but they did. So I don't really care because I don't really care about the crap, but it just is just another symbol of just how things that don't ever seem to be simple enough, but simple around here. Yeah, I'll just kind of repeat what I said with Tommy yesterday. Despite what many of you tried to convince me of on Twitter yesterday, I'm giving them credit. I'm giving them, you know, some small kudos, if you will. We didn't ask, we demanded that they changed this. And they did. Did we need, as many of you, required an apology? Did we need a stated admission of kilt, which many of you thought was necessary. Many of you thought that this was a weak presentation of the fix, you know, acting as if they had done nothing wrong to begin with. Look, the change is an admission that the first iteration was wrong. I don't need much more than that. On the radio show this morning, I was trying to come up with this quote. I couldn't remember who said it, and I'm sure I butchered it. But Lynn on Twitter sent it to me. Here it is.

Um, it's Emerson. What you do speak so loud that I cannot hear what you say. I agree with that, which is why I was trying to remember that. You know, your actions speak louder than what words, basically. And, you know, their actions were their admission that they got it wrong. You know, I'm surprised they changed it. This is not, you know, their MO to admit that they were wrong, even though many of you think they didn't admit that they were wrong through their actions. I believe they did. But this hasn't been their MO in the past. And I think Jason Wright specifically heard this.

You know, he heard it from everybody. I know many of you said, oh, you went after him on your radio interview. You told him it was wrong. You told him he needed to change it and he listened. I think I was one of like 50 people in the media that said this was wrong and incorrect and they needed to change it. I think he heard from a lot of the fans. I think he heard from probably some former players as well. So they fixed it, you know, and many of you said, well, they tried to do it in a sneaky way, you know, with the Roman numeral thing.

They tried to sneak in the Roman numerals, and then the league said no to Roman numerals, which I thought was kind of petty, to be honest with you. And I didn't think the Roman numerals looked that bad. But again, you know, okay, they didn't have a stated apology. or a stated admission. I think the actions speak louder than anything else. I think they deserve some credit for this. I'm not about to say, oh, my God, the culture is changing. You know, this is such a great sign that their culture is changing.

They can admit they made a mistake. They can fix the mistake. Again, I know some of you believe they didn't admit the mistake, but they can fix a mistake and they don't have to be stuck on stupid. but, you know, it's not like I believe that them fixing the mistake is somehow an indication that the culture of the organization is changing. And now I'm so excited that, you know, they've got somebody in there making mature decisions. No, I still don't buy into this organization doing much right in the future. But on this particular thing, yeah, I think I can look past the lack of contrition or something.

stated contrition and judge them on an action that I didn't really think they'd make in the first place. I know the bar is low, but they cleared it. And I give Jason right credit because I guarantee he was the one that was listening to this from everybody and said, nah, you know what, we didn't get this thing right. We didn't. And they fixed it. So there you go. Crest controversy is over. we now don't, if Ben, in the future, have to look at coffee mugs or t-shirts or sweatshirts and giggle every time we look at it with the wrong dates on it. Although if you've got one of those sweatshirts or coffee mugs, they will become collector items. Anyway, do you have anything else I know you have to run?

Well, it's going to be wild when they have to update the crest next year after the Trabiski Malik Willis tandem leads them to another Super Bowl. Hey, we'll look here. Good problem to have. Good problem to have. I hope they won't screw it up by putting 2023 on there and then have to do a redo after that. Hopefully they'll put 2022 on there. Imagine that.

A little bullet point after the 91 on the crest, it says 2022. I'm not counting on it. I'm not counting on it, but sure. At somebody who's hopefully going to be covering the team, I would like to be part of such a journey that would be. be that would be fun uh no i just uh appreciate you of having me on your award-winning podcast and uh i actually texted i texted ben and he didn't know anything about it but he got a chuckle out of the dc podcast association sports podcast association giving tommy and i that award for the month of january um who knows maybe you'll win it this coming month hey you know look if somebody wants to

give me that i mean i have uh i got award for having the best mock draft in 2019. I'll take another one, sure. I'm not about groveling. Why not? Ah, I forgot about that. I forgot to make that a part of your introduction at the beginning of the show. And by the way, Ben's not only a 2019 mock draft champion. He is a two-time mock draft champion. I will include that. I promise you in my introduction of you when we get closer to the draft. Thanks for doing this as always. Yeah, man. Say it. Ben Standing, everybody. One more segment, and it is just a guess on if

Russell Wilson were to be traded, where would he end up being traded to? That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This last segment of the show presented by MyBooky, go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky. a.g. Use my promo code and they will double your first deposit all the way up to a thousand bucks. Just so you know, there are very few places that are giving away $1,000 to gamble with. That's why if you are betting, I recommend you open up an account with my bookie using my promo code, Kevin D.C., to take the free $1,000. Or if you don't have $1,000 to deposit, you know, you've got $100 to deposit.

Take the free $100 that they'll give you. to gamble with. They've got all you need for March Madness. I was actually looking at their NFC championship odds for next year. Washington right now is at the bottom. They're not at the total bottom. Detroit is and the Giants and the Bears are actually have longer odds to win the NFC championship than Washington. But after the bottom rung teams of the Lions, Giants, and Bears, Washington's then in a group with Carolina and Atlanta right now. And then everybody else in the NFC has much better odds. Philadelphia does, Seattle does, Minnesota does.

Even the Saints do for some reason. The favorites in the NFC, believe it or not, after the Rams, are the Cowboys and the Packers right now. Then it's San Francisco and Tampa. I guess there's still some belief that Brady may not actually retire. Anyway, I wanted to quickly mention because I don't think we talked about it on the podcast yesterday. The Washington Post poll on the new name. There was a story in the paper yesterday, nearly half of Washingtonians don't like commander's name post-pull finds. The post asked among many questions as part of, I think, a D.C. issue.

choose driven poll. They asked DC residents, as you may know, the Washington football team has adopted a new name, the commanders. Regardless of what you think

about the team, which of the following best describes how you feel about the name commanders? Do you love it, like it, dislike it, or hate it?

The results to me were encouraging if I were running the Washington commanders. You know, if you take the pulse, of Twitter or even an anecdotal kind of poll with your friends and family members, I have yet to hear one person of any age say to me that they love the team name or that they

even like it. There have been a few that have said, eh, it's okay, I'll probably warm up to it. The results of this poll, only 5% said they loved it. 36% said they like it. 32% said they dislike it, 17% said that they hated it, and 11% had no opinion. So that essentially means that 49% either dislike it or hate it, and 41% either like it or love it, and really 36 of the 41% say they like it. Well, to me, that's a surprising result. I think it's actually a favorable result for the team.

It's an encouraging result for the team. I was surprised that the results were labeled as negative, as they were. You know, the post headline, nearly half of Washingtonians don't like Commander's name. I would have written, well, I don't handle headlines. I won't get into that. But I guess my point is that I would have thought instead of 49, either hating it or disliking it to 41, either liking it or loving it, I would have guessed that would have been like 70, 20, with 10% having no opinion, the 70% disliking it or hating it. So I thought that was encouraging.

Now, I do think this poll, which was of D.C. residents only, D.C. becoming, you know, probably as the most transient part of our area. And I think unless you interviewed somebody who still had strong feelings about the team, that it's very likely some of those people said, eh, it's fine where I like it. versus somebody who still has passion for the team, maybe that those results would have been different. There was also one other part of the poll. If you could choose a name for the team, which would you prefer?

The commanders, the Washington football team, or the Redskins? The Washington football team came in at 43%. The commanders came in at 26. The Redskins came in at 22. And then five, it came up with other names, five had no opinion. Well, again, I think it does matter who you're talking to, because if you're talking to D.C. residents, but they don't have significant ties to the past or even much passion for the team, because the first question was posed, regardless of what you think about the team.

I think that the Redskins would have come in higher, but again, Washington football team at 43% was surprising. But again, just the fact that the commanders came in at 26% high. than the Redskins, I would take this and run with it if I were the team. I think it's an encouraging result. One last thing I wanted to get to. Yesterday, Tommy and I talked about the nostalgic Instagram post that Aaron Rogers put out there, remembering and, you know, waxing kind of nostalgic on the Packers and the Packers fans and the players and his teammates as if he were on the verge of retiring or perhaps being traded. Well, he went on to the Pat McAfee show later yesterday and said none of those things are true, that they haven't gotten to the point where they're talking

about what the future is, and that he was coming off a 12-day cleanse, and he was just drained. If you read anything about the cleanse, I'm not even going to sit here and talk about it. It's so grotesque. I don't know why anybody would put themselves through it. And then there was the Russell Wilson profile, Twitter profile picture that had changed from something reflecting him in a Seahawks uniform to a picture of him and his father. After a high school football game in his high school football uniform, he grew up in Richmond, played for a private school in Richmond, Virginia. And many people, you know, kind of lost their mind thinking, oh, there's an indication, Sheehan, there's the indication that Washington, you know, is where he wants to go. And again,

I reported a few weeks ago that Washington, you know, would not be off his list, that he'd be open to being traded to Washington. Last year, Washington wasn't on the list. It doesn't mean that Washington would be first on his list, but I think he would be open to it. And I learned that from sources at the Pro Bowl a few weeks ago. I had a conversation with a friend of mine last night. This friend of mine is kind of in the know to a certain degree.

But let me just mention the conversation because it wasn't anything that was newsworthy. or, you know, it wasn't a piece of news. But he said to me, he said, first of all, if I were to say to you that Wilson and Rogers both get traded, don't you think that it would be to an AFC team, that that would be what Seattle in Green Bay would prefer? And I said, yes. He said, okay, secondly, let's just assume for a moment that they got traded to an NFC team. what does Washington have to offer that other teams in need of a quarterback don't? And then he made the point two teams in the division have a lot more to offer than Washington does.

Now, the Giants under Joe Shane and Brian Dable have already said, along with the Maras, that they're going to make Daniel Jones work. If Russell Wilson were available, you don't think the Giants would be interested in that? I think they might be. and then the Philadelphia Eagles are the other team in the division that could potentially be interested. And his point was the Giants have two first round picks, number five and number seven overall. And they can send Daniel Jones in the trade giving the Seahawks at least a quarterback that has started in the league and has some upside. And then the Eagles have three first round picks, number 15, number 17, and number 19.

15, 16, excuse me, and 19 overall, and they've got Jalen Hertz. They can send that back to Seattle. Carolina, also in need of a quarterback, has number six overall in the draft this year, and they do have Sam Darnold, if Seattle were interested in that. The point was, he's like, there are two teams in your division. that are much better set up to deal with Seattle. By the way, I'm focused on Russell Wilson because if you came to me tomorrow and said

Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers were both traded in the offseason and one of them got traded to Washington, who do you think it was? I would bet all of my money that it was Russell Wilson and not Aaron Rogers. But again, I don't think it's going to really happen. Anyway, the point is taken. You know, the Eagles for sure,

because I think the Eagles would be a Russell Wilson potential trade partner, East Coast, close to New York, even if the Giants weren't, which I don't know why they wouldn't be. But the Eagles have three first round picks in Jalen Hertz. If Seattle's going to trade Russell Wilson and the NFC, they're going to take a great deal. And Philadelphia and New York are both in much better position to offer Seattle a more attractive deal.

Like even if Washington said, we'll give you the next three number ones. Well, I mean, the 23 number one isn't going to be that valuable or the 24 number one isn't going to be that valuable because Russell Wilson's going to be the quarterback. So they aren't going to be high picks. All right, that's it for the day. Back tomorrow.