The Kevin Sheehan Show - Rivera Stalls On "Wentz Or Heinicke"

Episode Date: December 27, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on Ron Rivera waiting to announce his starting QB until tomorrow. Plenty on "Wentz or Heincke" plus the story that a few of the initial "Hogs" don't want the team profiting from the nickname.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy is here. I am here. We waited to record this podcast until Ron Rivera held his press conference at 1.30.

We thought there was a chance. I thought there was a really good chance that he would name Carson Wentz, the starting quarterback. And therefore, we would have a whole sort of answer to. the thing that we were going to contemplate earlier, but waited on Tommy. Now we can just do what we were going to do earlier because there was no decision made. He just decided, as of now, no decision until the world. Let's let people know that we were only doing that in their best interest because we want to give them the best podcast possible. Well, that's true.

That is true. And, you know, we don't want the podcast to be dated within an hour and a half. Right. We were doing it for the people, for the listeners. Most days that really can't happen, even when he's holding a press conference, I mean, you know, nine times out of ten, there's not going to be, you know, breaking news that comes out of it. Now, I'll tell you this, after the podcast on Friday, which was my last for last week, which I recorded with Cooley the day before.

I recorded the podcast that I ran on Friday with Cooley right after I recorded the podcast, with you on Thursday. And then I just waited to put it out on Friday. But Friday came the news of Chase Young is going to play. There's a charitable, you know, they're stealing from their own charitable donations and their charity. And then all of the bids were coming in. And, you know, somebody reported the guy from Wall Street Journal, I think it was, or maybe it was some other newspaper.

Maybe it was the New York Times. I forget now. It was Forbes, actually. The guy from Forbes reported that, you know, the bids. we're in at $7 billion plus. By the way, let me just tell you right now, I've talked to several people. There are a lot of bidders. I'm going to guess right now that the sale price ends up being less than $7 billion.

Close, but less than $7 billion and not, you know, closer to $7 billion than $8 billion. But I want to say less than $7 billion, so I'll stick with less than $7 billion. I think what you saw there was right before all the bids were. due, and nobody puts in a bid early. Right before the bids were due, I'm sure some people from Bank of America were trying to say, hey, the bids are coming in well north of $7 billion.

I think it's going to be a sale ultimately that's done for less than $7 billion, and I think he's going to sell the team. I think that's the best news still of the entire season. Anyway, back to Rivera. He did not make a decision today. Did you expect him to make a decision today?

I guess I did, but when you really think about it, Well, if you're looking for the competitive edge, why give the Browns one more day to prepare for an extra day to prepare for whoever they're going to face? Carson Rents. I think this is kind of, you're probably right. I think this is kind of overblown, and maybe it has to do with, let's take Rivera at his word. He says he wants to talk to his players.

What do you think that means? Well, I don't know that that's, I think he's already talked to the players. I think he's already made his decision, and I think he's already talked to the people that he needs to talk to. When would he have done that? I don't know, yesterday, Sunday night, yesterday. What do you mean when? Well, they didn't have practice yesterday. Do phones work?

You can't pick up the phone and call? Okay. I mean, you're, you know, there's some urgency today. You begin your preparation, full-fledged preparation tomorrow for a game you have to win. I don't have a problem with him not announcing it today. We're going to, you know, here's what's going to probably happen you watch, because the press conference just ended. They'll leak it to Ian Rappaport, and Rappaport will have it within an hour,

because that's pretty much what they do usually anyway. Watch, that'll happen. You're probably right. So I said yesterday on my recap show of the game on Saturday, because I did not do it on Saturday or Christmas Day. We had way too much family in town and too much going on. How was your Christmas, by the way? How was? My Christmas was good.

Yeah. It was good. We were up in Philly. Yep. And we got together with family. It was the first Christmas get together in three years since COVID for the entire family. So it was good. And we spent a night in Philly in a nice hotel and had breakfast with some more family the next morning and came home.

Oh, good. Boy, roads were a disaster yesterday. What you mean with traffic? Oh, my God, yeah. Yeah. Back to Rivera. I don't have a problem with him waiting until tomorrow. I think actually, as I mentioned the Rappaport possibility, that's actually even money.

because that's their move is to leak it. And so I'm sure somebody will have something this afternoon. But if they don't, if he thinks it's a competitive advantage to wait another day, that's fine. I did think about this one thing. He did say at one point Carson really, you know, looked good. He really handled the blitz well and got it out quickly. And that was something that, you know, he was, he didn't use the word struggling, but for the lack of a better description, I don't remember specifically the word he used.

That was something that he had to deal with earlier in the year. All along, or at least for the last couple of weeks, I think one of the things I've learned more than anything else about the first six games with Carson Wentz is he just wasn't comfortable yet in the offense. It doesn't mean that he's going to be great once he is comfortable in the offense, but it was his first new offense in the NFL, his second overall, because he had dealt with the same system in Philly and then in Indianapolis. with Frank Reich and had never, you know, had to learn another system since his rookie year.

And I think that that was a big part of the early season troubles with sacks, especially in that Philadelphia game because really nine of the sacks came in the Philadelphia game. I think Rivera saying that was, you know, a clue. I think that the odds were pretty heavily stacked that he's going with Wentz anyway. although I did on my podcast yesterday say that Taylor's performance on Saturday, which may have been the best three quarters that I've seen him play this year, you know, in order in the same game. Then the fourth quarter came and unfortunately that wasn't so good. But I thought he was excellent or close to excellent as good as he can be for the first three quarters. And so it was ironic that, you know, this would be the time that you benched him after maybe his best.

best game of the year, or his best three-quarter stretch of the year. But I think Carson Wentz is going to be the quarterback. I think they've made that decision. I don't care that he waits another day. I hope Wence is more comfortable in the offense. I think if he is, I think you've got

a better chance to be more dynamic and perhaps score more points on offense. But I don't know that it's going to be a game changer in terms of moving to Wence. I agree with everything you said there. You do? Now, That said? Yes, I do. I think that they believe that. I think that's what they say.

I think they believe. Well, what do you believe? What do I believe? I believe that Carson Wentz will be the same Carson Wentz we saw at the beginning of the year. I think he's a fragile player. I don't think he can get rid of the ball as quickly under pressure. Now, I mean, basically he did in San Francisco. when they were already behind, and there was a blitz, but still, it was still garbage time that they had to deal with. I just don't think that the guy is going to change. I think that's who he was when they got him. I think that's who he's going to be when he takes the field, and I think he will take the

field for this team on Sunday against the Browns. And I just don't think it's going to make much of a difference at all. And Miles Garrett could make the whole situation moot. But you think they're going to start Carson once? Yeah, I do. I mean, I'd be shocked if they, once he made the move, I thought, and Wentz did not soil himself, I thought that was it. Yeah, I did too.

And I still do. It's just, I will tell you this. I don't think it's the right move, but I think that's what they're going to do. I'm fine with the move. In fact, in sort of letting it simmer a little bit here the last 24 hours since I did the pod yesterday, I think I'd actually, I'm more in favor of seeing Wentz out there for the final two. I think we've seen Taylor Honeckee. It's not about next year, by the way, or a decision on next year.

It's about their... And what is it about? I just think that they need a jolt offensively, Tommy. they're just not a very good offensive football team. And I don't think that, you know, I think his best performance the other day that I've seen him this year, the first three quarters, converting all of those third and longs, still resulted in, you know, basically 14 points before he got bench.

Now, you know, not all of it is his fault. It never is. And I recognize that. They had a first and goal at the five. They had a third and goal from the one of four. worth and goal from the one and did not score. They, you know, he had a ball that wasn't the best thrown ball, but it was catchable by Jahan Dotson on the first drive of the game that would have been a touchdown, more

likely than not had Dotson held on to the ball. I just think we've now seen this stretch of the coin flip games haven't gone their way. Not that, not that Saturday was a coin flip game, okay? The two giant games, the Falcons game, the Vikings, the Colts, the Packers, all those coin flip games that were going their way for the most part over that five one and one stretch. The last three weeks, now it's 02 and one. And that's what those games were. They weren't played well offensively. They weren't played well from a quarterbacking standpoint. But you got some big plays made by the quarterback, big plays made by the defense, and you got more wins than a coin flip

suggest that you should. They could have easily lost to the Packers, Colts, Eagles, Falcons. And they ended up, they did lose to the Giants. And the 49ers were of the teams they've played the far superior team, as were the Eagles. The Eagles were the superior team, too. I think, by the way, they're much better than the Browns. I think this is a good. Here's the thing that I think they're thinking about.

they've got a pretty good football team. I think we've learned this year that with the exception of the offensive line, with the exception of the offensive line and the quarterback, they've got a pretty good rest of the team. And Chase Young was the best news of Saturday. I thought he looked great, shockingly great. He looked really good. And if he ends up being the player that he was at the end of his rookie year down the stretch year,

and I'm not anticipating that. Man, they would be tough on teams with their defense, as they have been without them. Look, they have a real good opportunity for a win against the Browns, and we still don't know if the Dallas game will mean anything, do we? More likely than not, it won't. Okay, well, that certainly plays in their favor. I don't think they're going to bench Michael Parsons, so I think he'd still play.

I don't know what they would do if it's, If it's a totally meaningless game based on where they're slotted in the five seed, I mentioned this yesterday for those that missed it. The key games for as far as the final game of the year goes, Dallas, Tennessee Thursday night, Dallas is a 10-point favorite against Malik Willis and the Titans. And then the Eagles Saints game is crucial. If somehow the Saints pulled off an upset and Dallas won against Tennessee, then you go into the final week with Dallas having a chance to win the division.

and grab, you know, potentially, you know, the home field for the first two games that would be in play. But you'd get the division as a possibility there, and then they'll put both games at the same time. Philly, New York, Dallas, Washington, and Dallas is going to be playing to win that game. If the Saints lose to the Eagles on Sunday, Dallas will have nothing to play for in that season finale. and therefore. Okay, let me finish, though. Yeah. Michael Parsons may still play.

I mean, Michael Parsons could have all kinds of contract incentives to get so many sacks per game. I mean, he's got 13. He could have a 15-sac contract thing. He could have, if you're in the top three in sacks in the NFL, he could have a contract provision that pays him. We don't know any of that. I wouldn't be surprised. Does that really matter when a team decides we're going to rest our starters, treat it like a bywink so nobody gets injured before the most meaningful games of the year?

Oh, come on, Kevin. Players care about every buck, every dollar. And if they think that management is holding them back from getting that buck, you damn well, it means something. I don't know. I've seen a lot of teams with, I'm sure, a lot of players with various incentives, not play when it's about the team resting and making sure that everybody's healthy for a playoff game and a game that would be, and more likely than that will be totally meaningless

to the Cowboys. I mean, I don't think Mike the Parson plays. I bet he starts, he may not play the whole game. Well, I mean, totally he plays. Starting and playing a series or a quarter like, like I'll tell you what, at the end of the 2007 season, when Todd Collins came in and. and they won four in a row. They played the Cowboys in the final game of the year,

and Tony Romo started that game, even though it was completely meaningless. The Cowboys had wrapped up the one seed, and the starters played like a half, and then Brad Johnson came in and played the rest of it. Brad Johnson was actually the quarterback for the rest of it. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how the Cowboys would handle it.

I just can't imagine that they're going to put their best player out onto the field for the whole game to get him a couple of sacks to pay more money and risk him. I said they'll let him play. Okay. Well, I mean. I didn't say the whole game. So play until what? What if he doesn't have his incentive at halftime?

Does he play the second half? Probably not. I don't know how long he'll play, but he's going to be on the field when they start, even if the game is meaningless. Okay. So here we are. We are probably on the verge of Carson Webb. You've kind of expressed that you think that's what they're going to do, but you don't necessarily think it's, you know,

you don't necessarily think it's the right thing and that we're going to see the same Carson once we saw earlier in the year. I think that's what we're going to see as well. I'm kind of leaning in the direction of, yeah, why not? It can't be worse than it's been with Wentz. I don't believe it can be. And I think, you know, there is, as I've always discussed, definitely more of an upside.

with Wentz. I think you even saw it in those final two drives. The 30 to 14 drive, the 49ers starters were still in there, and they weren't playing soft. And you just see the obvious physical differences, but there's a lot more to playing quarterback than being bigger, stronger, and having the ability to make every throw and make them quicker. And, you know, understanding the offense and being comfortable with it is, I think, the key to the whole thing. If they think they can roll him out. By the way, way, one other thing. I want them to employ the exact same idea that they had with Taylor Heinecke, which is what the Colts did at the end of last year with Carson Wentz. I want this still to be a

team that tries to manage down in distance, possess the ball, and take shots when you have them via play action. Okay. My last bowl prediction was that Carson Wentz would be benched by the 10th game of the year. I'm going to make another bowl prediction. Taylor Heineke will be the starting quarterback. We'll be in at quarterback for this team before the end of the year again. Well, I mean, if Carson Went starts, your wrong, your prediction last week that Taylor was going to start the rest of the games is wrong. Right. That's wrong.

Okay. That's wrong. So I want to make sure that you remember that one. He'll be back behind center. before this year is out. Well, you're rude, you said last week, you just, you want to see Carson Wentz in there so that you can see him get sacked 12 times and then they have to put Taylor back in there, right?

That's what I said. Right. I think Wentz will be better than he was earlier in the year. I also think the team's better, and that's the biggest, you know, part of it. You know, it may not be that he's so much better, but the results will be. be better because the team is better. And by the way, the competition over the final two won't be what he faced early in the year, which was playing the Cowboys and the Eagles back to back. By the way, after a game against the Lions, as we found out, the Lions were a pretty competitive

team, they weren't a horrible team. By the way, yeah. I think that Rivera, what Rivera is doing is shitty to Heineke. I think it's shitty. I think it's a lousy thing. Why? I think he owes this guy. I think if it wasn't for Taylor Heineke, there would have been no season worse to speak of last year when after their $10 million quarterback couldn't even play one game,

they turned to Heineke. And there wouldn't have been a season this year. After Wendz got, you know, broke his finger and basically shit the bed for the first six games, they turned to Heineke again. And I'm betting you that when Taylor Heineke slammed down his helmet on the sideline last week after a little conversation with Rivera, part of what he was thinking was this guy's betraying me.

This guy told, this guy said publicly he would stick by me, and I'm betting he said privately, more vehemently, that he would be his guy. I don't think that's what he said to him. I think that's what he said to him, and I don't think that's what he said publicly. Oh, he did say it publicly. He said both things publicly. He also said it's week to week once Carson became healthy. Well, you don't count one over the other.

I mean, it's not like what he said. He said the other one much more than the former. He talked about this being week to week and the players knowing he was week to week. He just needs to play. Yeah. Okay, I'm not looking to pull anybody. I'm not looking to yank anybody. Yeah.

Well, I don't think that it's shitty at all. I think this guy's had plenty of opportunity. He started 15 and a half, 15 games last year, and he has started, what are they, they've got 15 in the bank. He came in at 6, so he started 9 this year. He's been given ample opportunity. And you know what? For the most part, he's exceeded what probably the initial expectations were. He has earned a spot in this league as a backup for the next several.

years earning a lot of money. I think Ron Rivera and Scott Turner have done a lot more for Taylor Heineckee than Taylor Heineke's done for them. So I disagree with you on that. And it's Big Boy League. And you've got two games. And if they think Carson Wentz gives them. I think the players may have thought it would have stunk three weeks ago or back in November the last time they won a game. But after a month of not winning a game, I think it's going to be a much easier sell this time. I would agree with you. You know, Taylor Heineke is coming off, probably one of its best performances of the year. And it still wasn't anywhere near good enough.

Not anywhere near good enough. It was for him, it was an outstanding three quarters, I thought. I really did. But you're not asking him to do a hell of a lot. You know, those play action throws off of a running game that really wasn't there. I thought he was outstanding converting those third and longs. I thought those were the things that really were the most problematic things for him. and considering the opponent and how good the opponent is,

I did think that he played two and a half to three quarters of his best football as a starter for this team. But, you know, again, they got beat by 17. Now, why did they get beat by 17? Because he couldn't sneak it a half a foot, and then he turned it over twice, and San Francisco had three super short fields to blow the game open. it's time to see if the other guy works better.

I'm not anticipating a major upgrade here. I'm not because I agree with you to a certain extent that I'm not totally convinced we're going to see a guy that's much better than he was in the first six games because the word you used, fragile, I think that's what this guy is and has been for a couple of years. But the team is better than it was. He's had more time to digest the offense.

and the competition here over the final two, Cleveland, and then maybe a Dallas team starting their backups or playing primarily their backups for the majority of the game and the finale. Actually, it's interesting because the two games that got him run out of Indianapolis last year, the final two against the Raiders and the Jags, this year he's coming back for two games that if he plays well, may actually create an opportunity for him to stay. Oh, please.

Oh, please. What do you mean? Stop it. Why? Stop it, make a situation. They need to flush that down the toilet as soon as they can. I didn't say that they're not going to and that I wouldn't do it right now or that I think it's going to happen. I just said the opportunity is there for him to go out and play like the Carson Wentz from 2017 and 2016 and 2017

and create an opportunity that they then look at and say, there is no opportunity for that. We got the old Carson Wentz back. There's no opportunity for that. You know that. Well, I don't think that Carson Wentz is going to be the quarterback here next year. But let me just say this. If he announces tomorrow that Taylor Heineke is the starter,

because you've already suggested that he's already been shitty to him, and we don't even know for sure that he's done this. I think we know for sure. But what if he does pick Taylor Heineke? And it's because, you know, he played well and they're still not confident in Carson and the locker room feels better and the team leaders feel better about Taylor, et cetera. Well, then you know for sure if you don't already to Carson Wentz isn't back next year. Because if there's any chance that Carson Wentz is still in their eyes a mystery, well, then he's going to play the last two. Which they've been wanting to do.

The reason that I think he's in there, and that it's a slam dunk, or it's not a slam dunk after the way Taylor played, but it's really highly probable is because they've wanted to do this for a few weeks now. And it would have been much easier had they done it after the giant game. But the Heinecky created magic on that drive. And by the way, the tie, Tommy, the tie is ultimately going to be what gets him in. You know, because if they were sitting there at 7 and 8 right now, they would lose tiebreakers to teams like Detroit,

who they beat out Green Bay, but they would lose to Detroit in a straight-up tiebreaker. That tie will ultimately be super beneficial for them if they can win these final two. Like I said, Ron Rivera owes Taylor Hyder. He doesn't know him anything. He owes him because his tenure here in Washington, would have been significantly worse without Taylor Heaney.

Oh, bullshit. How do you know? How do you know what Ryan Fitzpatrick would have been last year? No, I didn't say that because Fitzpatrick got hurt. Yeah. And he had Taylor Heideke to turn to. And because Carson Wentz was a dump, was a dump fire, a dumpster. And he had Taylor He had to turn to.

And they went seven and ten. And they went seven in ten last year. Right. Instead of four and thirteen. Okay. If you say so. I think Heineke's been a great story, and there's so much about him that I like. He can't be your starting quarterback.

Oh, stop it. Stop with the condescending of great story stuff. Why? It's not condescending. I love this story. No, he didn't. Yes, he did. Well, that's your opinion.

I don't think he saved the team. I think the defense this year saved the team. I think the defense emerged as a top flight defense, and that's what saved this season once they, you know, look, the bottom line is it probably wasn't going to go much better with Wence at quarterback if he had stayed in there either. But it wasn't great at quarterback. So I don't know why you think he saved Ron Rivera. His performance has been mediocre when he's been good and less than mediocre when he hasn't been. He's a mediocre quarterback. a starter. He's a backup quarterback in the league.

But the results would have been much worse without Taylor Heineke. How do you know? I don't know. I don't know. I know. Except he was there and he managed to get seven wins last year for a team that didn't have Johan Dodson, Curtis Samuel, Brian Robinson, or Logan Thomas. Right. And played a much tougher schedule. Let me help you out with your argument. Played a much tougher schedule too. automated, what he's defamated, with COVID at the end of the year.

And still matters seven wins. That's, if they're lucky, a 4-13 season last year. So, Taylor Heineke... With most backups. Thank God for Taylor Heineke. Thank God for him, because... Yes, and it's a shitty way to thank you for. Seven and ten last year, and probably on the way to, you know, 8, 8 and 1 this year,

although I actually think they'll win their last two games. What does he end up as the starting quarterback this year? Because he was at 5-1-1-1, so then he was 5-2, 5-3-1. 5-3-1 is pretty damn good as a starting quarterback. If you believe in record being a quarterback stat, which I don't. So we'll see what Wentz does. My expectations aren't super high. They're not super high.

And I think come the off-season, they're going to be right back at it, top priority being quarterback. What do you think? Or do you think he'll realize that he actually owed him and he was shitty to him and he's going to just give him the job next year? No, no. He's not going to do that. But like I said, you'll see Taylor Heineke before the end of the season again. But no, they need a quarterback for next year.

Top priority. Absolute fire alarm priority for them. Because you're right, they have a lot of talent everywhere else but the offensive line. Yeah. Yeah, the offensive line is. very good. It's not a good pass protecting offensive line, although at times

Saturday I thought they did a decent job until they didn't in the fourth quarter. Ron Rivera said today, he thinks that's overblown. He doesn't think the offensive line is that bad. He said that today. I thought I read something. What did he say

specifically about the offensive line? I have to go back and look at it, but I'm giving you to shift to what he said. I'm not lying to you about it. I don't know. Who suggested you were lying? I'm asking you if you knew specifically what he said. Don't be so sensitive. I was just curious as to what he said.

I didn't see it. I don't know. I don't know. Do you know what he said? I don't, but you brought it up. Neither do I. Well, then what did you bring up? Bring it up again so I can assess what you brought up 30 seconds ago.

Something about the offensive line being better. He said today he thought the criticism about the offensive line was overblown. he thought they were played better than what people thought. So you did. That's the synopsis. That's the synopsis. Okay, so you did have something on what he said about the offensive line. I thought the offensive line...

Yeah, I had briefly seen something like that. I thought the offensive line was against that defense, which is one of the fastest front sevens you'll see anywhere in pro football over the last several years. I actually think it held up pretty well for the most. most part until the fourth quarter. It's hard, you know, and they got behind and they were down 10. Well, they were, yeah, they were down 10 after the 2114 touchdown. But it's just a, it's a, it's a really good defense. It's an excellent defense. I mean, I, what's interesting to me is,

the Browns have a bad, Browns have a great pass rusher, but a bad defense. Their defense has played better recently, though. I don't know what... If the numbers show that they're a bad defense, because I haven't really checked them out, that may be a little bit old, because they've played well recently, not against great offensive teams,

with the exception of Cincinnati, which they did a pretty good job against. But they've been pretty good here recently on defense. They played the Saints, you know, hardly an explosive offense. the other day in horrible weather conditions. And who did they play the week before that where they won the game? It was that Saturday game.

Baltimore. They beat Baltimore. And they really, I mean, they completely shut Baltimore down. What you can do against them is run the football. So this should be a running opportunity. Man, I thought there were some runs on Saturday that had chances that just got shut down so quickly by San Francisco's speed. What else did he see? Is there any other synopsis of anything else that he said today that you'd like to introduce to the conversation? They're encouraged about Cam Curl coming back to play.

That's big. I think he has a good shot to play against Cleveland. That would be big. So that's big. They missed him on Saturday. He's, you know, he's great in the box. He's also kind of the brains of the back end when he's out there. So that would be big.

You know, the defense started to play well this year when Cam Curl came back to the lineup in week three. The defense had, I don't think they had as bad of a day as the score would indicate that they had on Saturday. But they gave up a lot of explosive plays. They gave up a 71-yard touchdown run. They gave up two 30-plus-yard touchdown passes, and they gave up a 54-yard pass to. to Ayuk. So they were back in the business of giving up a lot of explosive plays, which hurt. But I actually thought they did an excellent job with the exception of the McLeod's 71-yard touchdown run against the 49ers in the red zone and against the run. They were great in the

red zone. I mean, the offense turned the ball over on downs and via turnover. Three straight possessions, I think, in the second half. Maybe not three straight because they had the touchdown in there. In their own territory. And I think they held him to feel. Here's what Rivera said. Here's what Rivera said on the offensive line. I'm not as worried about it as some people are making it out to me.

That was his quote. Yeah, I just pulled up the transcript too. I just got an email to me. He also said that Wentz showed that, quote, he's fully healthy, has fresh legs right now, as a lively arm, show quick decisions, show the quick twitch. You look for in quarterbacks, picked up the blitz a couple of times, and got the ball out quickly. Early on, he wasn't as quick with.

Right. That was what I said earlier because I saw Ben tweet that out. This does not sound like a guy who's not going to play on Sunday. Well, that's what I said earlier. That was a synopsis of Ben Standig's tweet about him saying there was a part where Ben tweeted that he said that he was better against the blitz. than he was earlier in the year. So that's kind of that. Okay, so you don't mind if I read a quote from the coach himself.

I know you like to think of yourself as the coach, and some people refer to you as a coach, but I thought I would reward exactly what the coach said. And you don't mind if, for those. Nothing wrong with that, right? No, nothing wrong with that at all. If you don't mind that for those that are saying, Tommy, Kevin said that earlier, I just remind you that was something that was said earlier.

just not verbatim. Believe me. People forgot at this point that you said it earlier. There's no doubt. People forgot that I said it earlier because it was now a long time ago. It was almost 35 minutes ago. I'm just reading through the rest of his transcript.

And it is interesting that Cosme and Lucas continue to split reps. Why isn't Sam Cosmi the starting right tackle? although he played some guard for us, he said. Yeah, he did. Okay. Oh, Antonio Gibson. I was wondering why Gibson wasn't back on kickoff returns at the end.

Antonio's got a sprain, so we're going to have to monitor that very closely this week. Sprain of what? He's then asked if it's a sprained ankle, and he just said he has a sprain. We'll give you a full report. Is it a sprained eye, or is it a sprained ankle or knee? So Gibson was injured during the game, although he was back in there at running back, but they took him off kickoff returns. I wanted to make one other quick comment about the game on Saturday, which I haven't asked you about. Jahan Dotson is just going to be a great receiver in this league.

I just think that there is something incredibly special about him, and Terry's already, you know, incredible. I mean, top half of the league, top 10 kind of a receiver, no doubt. Dotson, in some ways, to me, I think, is going to be a scarier proposition for defenses. And if they can find a quarterback, I mean a real quarterback, they're going to be a very good offensive football team. You know, add a couple of offensive linemen. Get yourself a legitimate NFL starting quarterback. and with those weapons and those backs, and then you combine that with what they have on defense,

and they are mostly young. They have a chance. Of course, we don't know how the play caller will do because he hasn't had a particularly good year. That's what everybody says. I didn't think he had a good night against the Giants in the Sunday night game that they really needed more than any other game that they've played.

but I'm much more of a believer in Scott Turner as a competent offensive coordinator than I think 95% of the people listening, including it sounds like you. I'll tell you what, I think he's actually a very good play designer. I think he's good at game planning. I think his weakness, if I were to suggest one, it would be that in-game he doesn't always kind of feel. and recognize what, you know, the biggest example would be the giant game, Brian Robinson Jr. only getting 12 carries last Sunday night.

That would be the criticism, but I like a lot of what they have going on from a run game standpoint and from their passing game. I think he schemes people open. He's also got really good receivers who are very difficult to cover as well. I'd like to see and refrain from a definitive opinion on Scott Turner until he's actually got a legitimate starting NFL quarterback. That might be too late. I don't want to. I think if you can upgrade, you upgrade.

Especially if you get a quarterback who's worth it. Well, the upgrades may come across the board if they don't make the playoffs. Yeah. Or a new owner. A new owner could have a new owner could have his whole. new staff before he even takes over the team. He might. He might be just saying you just got to wait until March when it gets finalized,

but we're moving you in and moving the other guys out. Including a Sean Peyton. You got to have a quarterback for Sean Peyton. Well, he's going to get to pick the quarterback. Mm-hmm. And who's that quarterback going to be? I don't know. Trade for Lamar Jackson?

Trade for Russell. Wilson? Boy, you know, months ago we would have said, count us in, right? I wonder what he thinks about the Denver job. Yeah, that's what people are thinking right off the bat. I mean, when I say that, I wonder what he thinks of Russell Wilson, whether or not he thinks he could get, I mean, I don't know. We've talked about this before.

obviously Russell Wilson and the story of Russell Wilson has changed so incredibly over the last six months. I mean, it started with all of the stories about what Seattle really thought of him and who he was behind the scenes. But here's a guy who literally before this year had thrown, you know, I think it's 106 touchdown passes in the three previous seasons. I mean, it's like a ridiculous number. Like he threw 40, he threw 35, he threw 31. What is that up to? It's 75, 31, 106. And, you know, hardly any interceptions.

And it just, so did it just completely fall off a cliff? Or did Nathaniel Hackett have a lot to do with that? I can tell you this. It doesn't appear as if his teammates really like him that much. No, no, no. They didn't like them in Seattle either, as we have found out. As we have found out, they didn't like them much in Seattle. He is a bit of a diva, apparently.

But I just pulled up his stats because I wanted to just make sure I knew what they were. Because in 2021, remember, he got hurt. Because they came here on a Monday night, and he had just been back for a couple weeks. It was the only two games he's missed from his NFL career in the regular season. All right. He had started 16 games every year for the first nine years of his career. And in 2017, 34 and 11, 35 and 7 in 2018, 31 and 5 in 2019, 40 touchdown passes and 13 picks in 2020. I mean, I guess he just all the sudden became a terrible quarterback.

Maybe. He certainly doesn't look to run like he used to. That's 100% true because in 2020, he had 513 yards. rushing. And then in 2021, two fewer games only had 183, and he's only got 232 this year. He definitely decided to stop running the same amount that he was running earlier in his career. All right. Let's take a break. I do want to get your... Go ahead. What? No, go ahead. I said, I want to get your... What do you want to get my thoughts on? I want to get your thoughts on the game, and then all of this other stuff going on with the hogs and yeah, and some of that stuff. We'll do that right after these words.

from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show actually is sponsored by two of our favorite sponsors. MyBooky, go to MyBooky.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin, D.C. They'll match your first deposit, dollar for dollar, all the way up to $1,000. And it's brought to you by Shelly's, Tommy. Tell us about Shelly's. Shelly's back room.

My home away from home at 1331 F Street in the district, men, if you got under your tree on Christmas Day, you got that sweater, that ugly sweater that you're never going to wear, or some kind of tool that you're never going to use, or some kind of book that you're never going to read, that wouldn't be Hail Victory, of course, the oral history of the Washington Redskins. That would be must-reading, and I'm hoping some of you wound up getting a copy of that for Christmas. But if you got something for Christmas that you don't like and you're looking to return it, I'm going to show you how you can use your money. You take that money after you go into coals or you go into pennies or any other stores you have to to return it,

and then you take that money. It's that money. It's a JC Penny you can get it? In Coles? What? Where's a Coals around here? There's lots of coals out here in the suburbs, Kevin. Are there really?

You know, yes, there are. Absolutely. I met with Coles many, many years. ago in Wisconsin. I think that's where they're based. I think it's like, because that was, they weren't a client of ours, but they were a big supermarket slash a chain and wholesaler in the state of Wisconsin. I think that was Coles. Because by the way, wasn't, um, wasn't Herb Cole, a senator from Wisconsin? Yeah, and he owned the Milwaukee Pucks. Yeah. So that was probably, well, I would bet a lot of money was the same family.

didn't know that there are any coals around here. Go ahead. Continue. Well, there's one in, I know there's one in Frederick. Okay. I know there's one in Ellicott City. I know two right off the bat. Right. But take that money and head for Shelly's. Buy yourself a nice smoke from their cigar officianto top 25 cigar list that they have for sale there.

Buy yourself some of the top shelf whiskey that they have. And that's the present you really want. That's when it'll feel like Christmas to you. When you can sit back, take a puff, watch a football game on one of the many big screen TVs they had, sit in a comfortable chair and think, man, I'm glad I brought that sweater back. This is Christmas. That's what you need to do, guys. I've got a pile of stuff that's going back. Just not to Coles or pennies.

By the way, don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple. Five stars, really helpful if you haven't done it. that. Pause us for 30 seconds. Give us five stars on Apple podcast. Give us a one to two sentence review. VCU Commander said, love the show, especially the banter with Tommy. From C. Castle, best DC sports talk podcast. There is, bar none. However, be warned, he will talk about how Kirk Cousins is playing any given week more than he talks about DC's year in and year out best sports team, the caps, but overall a consistently great. Do you know?

Yeah. How about the caps? How about it? Yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah. Kevin. Yes. At the beginning of the year when we made our season predictions, I predicted

Kirk Cousins would win the MVP. I do kind of remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I think I picked the Vikings to go to the Super Bowl. I can look that one up.

I don't know that you picked the Vikings to go to the Super Bowl, did you? I may have. I know I picked the Chargers to go to the Super Bowl. That's a real long shot. I mean, they made the playoff at least. I picked the Saints and Eagles to be in the NFC championship game, and it was the Bills over the Saints in the Super Bowl. That was when I was all about Jamarcus Russell,

which many of you have reminded me about, but you always forget to mention that I said the Eagles were going to win 12-plus games and win the division this year and be really good. So would Jalen Hertz. Yes, you are. You were spot on about that. No Kirk Cousins talk today, even though he had his eighth come from behind fourth quarter win of the season.

I get into it with so many different people on Cousins. He's exactly the opposite of what most of you think he's been throughout his career, but that's enough on that. So real quickly, What did you think of the game on Saturday? Because I didn't, you know, we were doing the Wentz and Hineke discussion in the opening segment. What did you think of the game? I thought it wasn't as bad a beating as I thought it was going to be until the end.

Then it was, I mean, the final score was a bad beating. But I thought that it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. That's pretty much all I can say about it. Okay. That's all I got to say. That was great. I feel like we talked about it when we talked about when. Okay.

When we talked about Heiney and Wentz. We talked about the game. There were other parts of the game. We talked about Chase Young. We did, and that was a big part of the game. Oh, save that for your kids when you talk to your kids. Okay? I don't have time for that.

You are one of my kids. Sometimes I feel that way. I don't have any other thoughts from the thoughts yesterday. So there you go. They lost to the 49ers. We expected them to lose the 49ers. If I didn't emphasize enough yesterday, I'll do it. This will be the last word.

I think the 49ers are going to go to the Super Bowl with a third string quarterback, which is really an amazing thing to think about in today's NFL. You know, the fact that you can be down to your third quarterback from the start of the season, and you've got a chance to legitimately win the Super Bowl. That's how good they are everywhere else, and that's how good they are, you know, in the coaching staff area. How great would it be? What a story would be if Kirk Cousins beats Kyle Shanahan in the NFC title game? They're probably going to play in the second round in the divisional round

because, you know, the Eagles will probably be the one, and then San Francisco, the two, Minnesota, the three, or vice versa. and then you'll have probably Dallas. Although I mentioned yesterday, Carolina, if they win the division, and I think they've got a pretty good chance to beat Tampa this weekend to win the division, I think Carolina is going to be a tough out for the Cowboys in the first round, because that would be a road game as well. All right, so what did we miss from the weekend? I wrote everything down here.

I've already talked a little bit. The hog! Yeah, I know. We're getting to that. I did want to just say, Ovechkin's spectacular, and I wish that the final, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, uh, the, the, the, uh, the, the, uh, the, the, the, uh, the, the, uh, the, the, uh, passed, uh, Gordy Howe, eight-o-two to pass him, didn't come on an empty netter. Um, the, um, the wizards are playing great. So there's your caps talk for the day.

Yes, they are. Um, the wizards have actually started to play much better now that, Bradley Beal is back. I mean, we were, you know, we went off on them, as we should have with their 10-game losing skid. They actually beat Sacramento the other night in an impressive win, beat the Sons, sons didn't have Devin Booker, and played the jazz really well. They play the Sixers tonight. And we'll finish up the show with the other, you know, Washington football team news. Look, the charitable thing, I don't know enough about it. I thought about getting Howard on or kneel on to talk about, you know, what, what they're doing. The biggest, the most egregious issue with the charitable story, the fact that there's, you know, that Tisha Thompson wrote the story

on Friday, if you didn't know, I should probably mention this in more detail. Tisha Thompson, who is part of the, you know, Van Nata story from, you know, October, wrote a very lengthy story on Friday that the Commander's Charitable Foundation receives upward of 75% of its donations from fans and the public has been operating in a manner that calls into question whether it's upholding its charitable mission responsibly, potentially funneling some of that money to a company owned by Dan Snyder. But really the big thing to me, or the biggest red flag, is that most of these charitable foundations have five board members minimum and they're from, you know, every single, you know, walk of life to really protect the,

the charitable donations to make sure that it's, you know, it's being, it's being run with integrity, with honesty. And the only person on the board of this Washington Commander's Charitable Foundation was Tanya Snyder. And according to people that really understand this stuff, that is highly unusual, if not suspicious. So that's that story. Did you have any thoughts on that? I mean, they are who they are. We know they're bad people. Hello. They are. They're bad people capable of anything that you can think of. They're capable of.

Yeah, and if this story doesn't have a lot of legs to it, and it's another story that really is unfair to them, so be it. Are they capable of doing this? They're capable of almost anything at this point. We've witnessed it for 23 years. Now let's get to the story of the day yesterday, and that was the story that the hogs. Here, let me pull it up.

I had it here a second ago. They don't, the hogs. Yeah. And specifically, specifically John Riggins, Mark May, Joe Jacoby, Fred Dean, and Doc Walker, who are the ones who issued the statement about this. Okay. Right. Thank you. The statement, which I now have in front of me, and this was not a lawsuit, this was not necessarily even a threatening of a lawsuit. because apparently, at least according to the team, there have been some conversations about this.

But there was a statement titled, Dan Snyder and the commanders drag legendary hogs through the mud, last chapter of mistreatment by the franchise. It's just like, when I saw this, I'm like, yay. I mean, it's just, it never stops. It just never stops. No. And by the way, I'm not. It's a blackboard with the days without an accident. It comes from enemies.

it comes from friends and it comes from family because this is family. So they have a what, who, and why in the statement. The what reads, Dan Snyder and the Washington commanders are trying to profit off the original hogs legacy by taking that trademark and associated goodwill and brand equity of the original hogs. The commanders are using the original hogs brand for commercial purposes with no compensation to the men whose blood and sweat equity built the original hogs brand 40 years ago. Now, before I get to the who in more detail and the why, let me just also mention that the team is planning on honoring the hogs with Joe Gibbs being present at the game on Sunday against the Browns.

And by the way, part of the festivities on Sunday, I'm sure they'll nail it as they do all of their big time events, they're going to announce the new team mascot, which will either be a hog or a dog. Now, I'm wondering if it was going to be a hog, they do everything else last second. They could switch it to a dog this week if that's what they want to do. But back to the statement, the who in the statement, it came from O-Line Entertainment LLC, formed by members of the original hogs. Joe Jacoby, Mark May, John Riggins, Fred Dean, and Doc Walker. A lot of people, by the way, don't remember that Fred Dean was actually one of the starting guards in the original hogs group.

By the way, George Stark was one of the original hogs as a starting right tackle along with Jacoby. And Doc in the tight ends and Don Warren were also. Hogs. Hell, Doc basically invented the hogs and certainly was the chief marketing officer of the hogs. And Rigo was a hog and Thysman ended up, I think, being an honorary hog. By the way, Doc was also a member of the fun bunch. So it's that group O-Line Entertainment LLC, Jake May, Rigo, Fred Dean, Doc Walker versus Dan Snyder's Washington commanders. The why is this. They write, The former members of the original hogs reclaim their rightful ownership of the hogs

and expect to receive a federal trademark in early 2023. The newly created Washington commanders are a different franchise with a completely different team name that we believe has no legal claim to the original hogs legacy and brand created 40 years

ago. On January 1, the commanders are going forward with a celebration of the hogs. That's this Sunday during the Browns game. The original hogs have tried to amic amicably resolve this dispute for many months now, but to no avail with the commanders before the January 1 event. Without substantial control and compensation,

the original hogs do not want to be associated with the commanders under its current ownership and management and require that their legacy and brand is protected. So there you go. The team then had a statement that said, we are planning a celebration of the greatest offensive line ever to play the game. The Hogs are a key part of our franchise's history, and we want to keep their legacy alive with the next generation of fans. We've been working with the Hogs on this event for six months

and look forward to welcoming them back along with Coach Joe Gibbs. So, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Really, here's what it does, though. Here's the bigger thing. It just shows how toxic and distasteful that this organization has become. That nobody wants any connection with it whatsoever. I mean, it's just remarkable that it's come to this.

Now, would you be shocked if they didn't name the hog as their mascot? you'd be shocked if they didn't do that, right? Well, yeah, between a hog and a dog? I don't know. I mean, I'd be shocked if the hogs are not, if a hog is not named as the mascot, which I might point out is really ironic because a hog is a pig,

and this team has been on trial in public opinion for the past three years for sexual harassment and their toxic workplace, and now they're going to pick a pig to be their mascot. I know we call them a hog, but that doesn't make it all nice and furry and all that. It's still a pig.

Yeah. So it's just, it's just, it's, this team can't get sold soon enough. Really can't. So, apparently they have tried to trademark hogs. They,

they filed for the original trademark back on July 26th. second. I mean, are you telling me, by the way, that Hogs wasn't at some point during the 80s or 90s? Are you telling me that Hogs wasn't marked that the team didn't file some sort of trademark? That's remarkable. And if they did, I think somebody brought up the question they may have, but they may have let it lapse. Oh, really? They let it lapse. They didn't continue to react with what you have to do. I don't know if that's a rumor. I like it certainly wouldn't surprise me.

It would very much surprise me if the team during that time didn't trademark hogs. And, you know, have all sorts of branding associated with hogs as it relates to a football franchise trademarked. I just can't imagine that they wouldn't have tried to do that. If you're telling me that maybe they did and they let it lapse, who let it lapse? Well, it wouldn't be a surprise if Snyder let it lapse. That certainly wouldn't be a shocker. But I wanted to just mention one thing. So going back to last year when they haphazardly and very 11th hourish put together this Sean Taylor Jersey retirement weekend,

I know for a fact that many, many former players were not happy with that at all. It's not that they had necessarily anything against Sean or even thought that Sean's jersey at some point, you know, didn't, you know, didn't deserve or, you know, have some sort of ability to be retired based on a special circumstance. But once the franchise decided to start retiring jerseys, and I think rightly so, took Bobby Mitchell and retired his as the first, other than Sammy Baws, which was the only one for years, I think a lot of the emphasis. on the more recent Dan Snyder-owned team and the biggest star you could argue that played for that team. And then the constant going back to the same well on Sean Taylor over and over again.

My sense is that it's like they, you know, you combine that with the fact that none of them like Snyder, the fact, like all of us, the fact that the, you know, the franchise, I mean, Cooley's, said it, he said, I'm not, I'm not going to feel anything when they announced that new name. And when they announced the new name, he immediately called me up, he goes, I want to be on the show today.

He's like, it feels like it's not the team I played for. It's not the franchise I played for. Rigo apparently said the same thing. There was a big story about how Rigo on his show that he does with Todd on YouTube, couldn't believe how much of a reaction he had to the commander's name and the new branding and everything else, it felt like, you know, a family member was lost, I think is the way he put it. And I think that this is like, this is territorial. Like, this is part of what they want protected from this owner and the way that they are treating, you know, the past. I mean, the bottom line, Tommy, is there has been much less emphasis on the players that won a lot versus those that really won nothing. Certainly in the last year, you know, that's

been the case. And I know that they're going to retire Sonny Jurgensen's jersey. And I'm telling you, I think that's almost out of pressure from a lot of, you know, different people like this has got to happen. And it's got to happen before anybody else happens. But, you know, they didn't know where to go with this. And Snyder doesn't know where to go. I mean, he doesn't really have a good sense of what this franchise was all about. I don't think he's ever been the kind of fan that many of you and I've been during our lives. But I think that that's, I think there's just a lot of frustration with the franchise. Yeah, go ahead. I think that Snyder is, at one time, was well informed because he read, he read my book, Dale Victory. I know this for a fact. Okay, I know you told me that.

So I think that Snyder was informed. He's just a weasel. Right. That's all. It's not ignorant of the history of this team. He just doesn't care. Not after reading your book. There's no way he could be.

No. No, how could you be? You know? What can I get that book for right now? What can I get Hail Victory for right now? Go ahead. Look it up for. Look it up right now.

I am on Amazon. Let's see. Hail Victory. is available in paperback at $14.95. Wow. There you go, buddy. Making fun of me. You know what?

What? I remember being in the office with you in December. Yeah. And look at your vast collection of books. I didn't have it. And you didn't have a copy of it. You had Feinstein up there. A couple by Feinstein.

I'm taking his, but not one of mine. I know. Well, you, to be fair, for me to have had Hail Victory up on my shelf, filled with books, I would have had to purchase it myself because you've never given me a copy, a signed copy. I would have thought that being your partner for as long as I've been your partner, your professional co-host for as many,

at some point you would have brought it and said, hey, hey pal, I signed it. It's for you. You know, you got a point, but they're hard to come by. I got to tell you. They're in demand. How many do you think are actually left? I don't know. How does that work?

How many do they print? Okay, I don't know. You see, this is like, this is the Laverro Island thing. You give me the check, and then I don't care if you're not curious about how it works. No. Because there had to be a chance that if the book took off, that there would have been another check down the road, right? But, yeah, but you see that, in order to get royalties, you see, when you write a book, a legitimate book, you get an advance.

Right. You get money from the publisher. Well, your royalties go against that advance. Mm-hmm. And until your amount of the royalties gets past that advance amount, right? You don't see a dime. It's a draw.

So I understand that. And I got a pretty good advance on the hell victory. You were pretty sure the reason you checked out, on this whole thing, is you were pretty sure the advance was definitely an aggressive advance that you would not be able to see any royalties once it exceeded the advance. You're like, thank you very much. I'm on to my next project. Yes.

Right. Yes, and let's say, and publishers have creative accounting when it comes to royalties. And, you know, so I got mine. What was your advance? I'm not going to tell you. Okay. you really thought I would tell you didn't you really thought I didn't blurt it out I didn't but I but I but I was curious as to what it is I know you'll tell me you know not on the podcast you'll tell me after the show you will you think so I do I think you'll eventually tell me what you got I don't think so I bet I get I bet before we're done at some point many many years down the road I will find out what you got in an advance for hail victory I'll tell you why if you're if you're around my bed on my deathbed, then I'll tell you.

Well, I will come visit you on your deathbed if that's the way it goes. Who knows? All right, are we done? I mean, what else do we have to say about this? I mean, to be honest with you, like I almost called Doc just to say, what do you want to tell me about this? But I didn't even bother him with it because I do think most of the people listening are actually right now, like, are they going to beat Cleveland this?

week and is the team going to be sold? Those are the two biggest stories right now. There's a large segment of the disassociated fan base that this would upset significantly. It's just always something else. There's more fans who have left than who have remained. Oh, there's no doubt about that. Oh, no doubt. Well, I think those fans who have left, when they read this, it'll piss them off.

I know, but it's just all of it just his kind of run together through the last couple of years. And at this point, do you think they're just completely checked out? And it's like, oh, there's another, you know. This is, this is owner on player crime. This is different. This is an owner on fan crime. This is owner on player crime.

Well, I mean, they'll take this a little bit different. What can they, I'm curious, if it's not marked yet, I'm not sure what O-L-LC has the right to. I'm not a lawyer. I'm just curious, if they don't. don't have it marked, if they don't have it protected, if they don't own it, what are they, what could they, I mean, I understand their concern and it's a legacy that they were a part of building and they don't want his fingerprints on any of it. Because everything he touches gets,

everything he touches with those fingertips just ends up smudging it in a way that can't be cleaned. That's a pretty good case. I know, but I don't know how. how they can legally do anything about it. I don't know either. Okay. But you know what? What? It's always worth a shot.

All right, I will talk to you on Thursday. I'm back tomorrow. All right, boss. I don't know with whom, but we will have a show, I think, tomorrow.