The Kevin Sheehan Show - Rivera Vs. Media

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

Kevin and Thom opened with news on the “Frederick” virus. Then it was a conversation about last nights NBA draft and the Wizards’ pick before they got to whether or not Ron Rivera is souring on local media coverage of the team. Kevin had some Vegas NFL “tells”.....Thom had his Washington- Cincinnati prediction. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right, it's a sports fix Thursday. Tom, from his fortress of solitude in Frederick, Maryland. I, from our studios here in lovely Bethesda,

our very, very comfortable studios, Tommy. It's very warm in here today. They crank the heat because of the very cold night and cold morning, and I've essentially had to strip down to next to nothing. I have a... That's not an image we're interested in. And it shouldn't be. But I dressed warmly when I left the house early this morning at 4.37 a.m.

It was 27 degrees, by the way, on my car thermometer temperature reader. It was the cold this morning of the early... Well, it's not winter yet, of the late fall, mid to late fall. December 21st is the first... December 21st is first day. But December 7th is actually, or 6th is the first day of what they call meteorological winter. Anyway, it is so hot in here. I can barely breathe.

The heat's cranked. And they have this, you remember the thermostat that's on the wall in here? It's a dummy thermostat. Yeah. It does nothing. It's there for show. And I remember, you know, the first month we were in these studios, I was fooling around with it to get it to the right temperature.

I'm like, nothing's happening here. You know, like, if you flip into a certain temperature, then you'll hear something go on or turn off, whether it's heat or air conditioning. I'm like, nothing's going on. And I walked into the guy that runs it. And I said, what's the deal with this thing? He goes, yeah, that's not really a thermostat.

You know what it is? It's a placebo. It must be a placebo. It's a placebo. Oh, you know what? That reminds me of a conversation I had with my CDC neighbor. the other night about the vaccines. Many of you have said,

can we get an update from your CDC neighbor? And I don't think I've given one in quite some time. For those that are hearing this for the first time, my next door neighbors, both husband and wife, both work for the CDC here in Washington. They lived in Atlanta forever, which is the national headquarters of the CDC. And he is a world-leading expert on malaria

and has actually spent most of his professional. professional life in Africa. Anyway, he was walking his dog. I was walking my dog. I love my dog. My dog, Lainey, my English bulldog is, as I've mentioned before, is pretty much the only living thing in my home that enjoys my company. And the same back to her. She's the best. So we were on a walk and my CDC neighbor, he's a nice guy, really smart, nice guy. And I said, so what do you make of the Pfizer thing and of the other one that came out. And he's like, it's really, really good news. Anyway, you know, he said the initial vaccines are going to go to the frontline workers, you know, health care workers, things like that. And clearly people that are older and more vulnerable,

you know, based on their medical makeup. Anyway, I don't know how I got to this. And I don't know if anybody else has ever been curious about this. Who volunteers to be, you know, to be, you know, the test cases for these vaccine trials? Oh, I think they get paid for them. They do get paid for them. Yeah. They do get paid for them. Yeah, and in fact, this area between Johns Hopkins and the NIH is a big hotbed for making money off of testing of different kinds of medications and vaccines.

Would you do it? There was a point in, well, look, there was a point in my life where, you know, you know, Literally, you could have stuck needles in my eyes for money. Yeah, by the way, your tweet the other night made me want to stick a needle in your eye. Yeah, I know. I know. But anyway. But no, not in the past 20 years, maybe.

So. But, you know, there was a time where, you know, anything for a buck seemed pretty harmless. So what if I grow a third arm? Well, so I, anyway, I, by the way, you're right. This is apparently a hotbed area. for testing. The number one reason he explained is, first of all, and I didn't know this, the University of Maryland is a major vaccine trial, you know, trial testing site for them. They pay students, they pay young people primarily. And then he said the area has a lot of schools

and a lot of young people and a lot of, in college students. And I vaguely remembered, you know, some of these offerings way back in the day, you know, come in and, you know, volunteer to be, you know, a trial for this vaccine work and we'll pay you 50 bucks or whatever. And that's essentially what it is. It's still risky. And he said, it is, but not with young people. And in most cases, you know, there's not going to be a serious consequence. However, it did lead to this. And I said, well, you know, given the nature of this vaccine, this disease, wouldn't it make more sense to be testing this vaccine on older people? And he said, absolutely it would. And people who are more vulnerable based on their underlying medical conditions, we would learn a lot more. And then he described something

that I thought was really interesting. He said, the problem when you, you know, when you test a new vaccine on older people is that if those people die of a heart attack, you know, within a week of the test, you don't know if it was the vaccine or if they were actually just, you know, about to die of a heart attack because they're 80 years old or they're 85 years old. So the trials, the trialing of vaccines, the testing of vaccines on old people typically is not done. because they don't, then you've got to spend time trying to figure out what the result of the heart attack was. And it can shut down a whole vaccine, even though it may have been just underlying heart disease, rather than anything having to do with the vaccine. I can understand that.

But with this vaccine, the efficiency rate is so dramatically high. He said that's a great sign. That's almost double. What a flu. I know. Those people don't realize a flu vaccine is 70-something. No, I think it's 70-something. I think it's 50-50 if you look at it up.

I think they're actually, and he told me this in one of our other conversations, he told me there are actually a couple of different flu vaccines. Well, I got the high-octane flu vaccine. Well, I think it's over 65. Then I think it's in the 70%. Okay, maybe it is, but I've read 50-50 pretty much. And I got the flu a couple years ago after I got the vaccine. I remember that.

You know, and I never. It's the only time I ever remember getting the flu. And it wasn't, I mean, it was just an exaggerated cold. It was never like all the, like the chills, the aches, all the other stuff. I've never got any of that. Right. You know? Well, I mean.

So I didn't really get it that bad. There was a, there were a couple of other things, you know, he told me. He was very encouraged by, you know, the success rate, obviously with the Pfizer and the other one, which I'm forgetting the name of. I think Pfizer was at 90% and this other one was at 94%. I think so, whatever. And, you know, but like he said, he said, you know, we're talking about late spring, early summer before it becomes available to people that, you know, aren't, you know, of underlying health conditions or frontline workers. They're hopeful at the end of December, they can start distributing it to frontline people. Yeah.

I know. And I'm hoping, obviously, since I'm in the age group that would be vulnerable, that I'll have a good spot in line. Yeah, well, you'll figure out a way to get a better spot in line regardless. And God knows it's not just your age, but you've got many underlying conditions. You know, you have more than I do, probably. No, I don't. What I do. Yes, you do.

Um, I'm, you know what, I might only because I am asthmatic. But I'm only, I have asthma, but it's seasonal asthma when the pollen in the spring is really bad. That's the only time. I don't have year-round asthma. Okay. So, anyway. Okay. Listen, along those, one last thing.

Yeah. I know you're a guy who likes to talk to his neighbors. Me? Not so much. Well, I'm not, look, you're giving me too much credit. We are, we're nice to everybody, we're nice to everybody, but we're not neighborhood involved. I'm not saying this like, it's a good thing. I know you're not, but I'm trying to put myself probably closer to your category of being maybe you're straight out aloof.

I am, I'm just not, I just don't want my, I don't want to waste time. I'd rather be doing something else. Well, my wife is more inclined to talk to the neighbors than I am. Right. And in our condo, where we are, we're not far from Fort D.Trick. Right. And I've told you that Fort D.R.C. is the place where they make the really bad stuff when it comes to chemical warfare and things like that. That's why it was featured in the Americans.

And they had to shut down the lab in Fort Diedrich about two years ago. And there's a lot of mystery involving the shutdown of that lab, you know. And there are people here who are convinced that the virus was started at Fort Dietrich and then sent over to China. Oh, my God. I know. I know. This is fascinating stuff. You know, remember the pandemic of 1917's, the Spanish influenza, when it came back here,

there were multiple military sites where it really spread quickly because of soldiers coming back from World War I. World War I. But when you said Fort Dietrich, there's a fort, I don't know if it's Fort Hayes or something like that. I'd have to look it up. There's, in Kansas, I believe it is, that was the original spread point for. I think it's Fort Courage. Fort Courage? Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Anybody who's listening, that's an Easter egg for you. Fort Courage. What is Fort Courage? I'm not familiar. I'll tell you next podcast.

Okay. Is that a real fort or is it some sort of a pop culture reference? Let's continue. Is it a wire reference? No, what were you going to say about World War I? No, I was just going to say that when you mentioned Fort Dietrich, it reminded me of, you know, some of, when this first started, I just did a lot of reading. And I had done a lot of reading on pandemics before this pandemic ever started.

I was sort of interested in it. And the, and there was a, there was a military base where they believe this was where, you know, the Spanish flu, the 1917 pandemic was brought back from Europe and really started to spread from here. And then it ended up obviously in major cities. Philadelphia was the worst out of all of them. There are people around here, my neighbors, who are convinced this thing started at Fort Dietrich. Is this just a massive conspiracy thing that you believe is completely flawed?

I researched it online and it started on a Canadian Q&ON version, you know, some kind of warped Canadian website. So I dismiss it as, you know, conspiracy, lunatic, you know, Pizza Gate kind of thing. Well, I mean, it could have been something that they, you know, brought back from China to study here. And then it spread. It started here. Oh. And somebody brought it to China.

Oh, well, then we'd have to, instead of referring to it as in the early days, but continuing from many now as the China virus, we'd have to refer to it as the Frederick virus. or the Fort Dietrich virus. Yes. And boy, that would make people not want to, that would not be good for your real estate at all. So, anyway, that was my update from the CDC neighbor. And it's not much of an update. Oh, he was, he definitely seems to be very concerned about Thanksgiving. As, by the way, the CDC, did you see their guidelines on Thanksgiving?

You know, no, no music, no dancing. no loud shouting, you know, only the immediate family. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going around about, you know, there's a real concern. He said his real concern about Thanksgiving is not necessarily the large gatherings that people will have. You know that. People are going to ignore all the guidelines. He said it's all about the college kids coming back home. Oh, yeah.

Like I've always said, the Wednesday night before Thanksgiving was the biggest party night. Well, yeah. And even beyond college because like, you know, like when you were still young and like in your 20s and 30s, you still have people come home, you know, to visit their families and they go out on Wednesday night. It was the greatest night to go out of the year. I always thought that. It was such a great night. Wednesday night before Thanksgiving, when everybody's coming back, especially when you're in college or like you said, you're in your 20s or 30s and people are coming back, maybe from a job they've got outside of town. And it was a massive party night.

Absolutely. Yeah. So. You know, I mean, not anymore. But look. Well, it is for my boys and has been the last several years for my boys. Yeah. I get that. But we're just doing Thanksgiving, just very immediate family.

Very low key. Yeah. We're doing immediate family. But, I mean, I have a niece that lives in town and she's coming over. And my youngest will be getting home from Penn State on Friday night. So, you know, whatever. I mean, what are you going to do? That's remember what Dan Snyder said.

Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. So I wanted to start with this, even though we just started with something else, typically of us. So I saw last night, Darren Revelle, Darren Revelle, the longtime business reporter, you know, at ESPN, and then he's with the Action Network now. Yes. I'm very familiar with Darren. Yeah, and most people that are listening are as well. And he tweeted out the following.

He tweeted out, if they completely made up a draft pick at this point and had actors celebrating in a home around a guy, 99% of viewers wouldn't know. Talking about the NBA draft last night. He's 100% right last night. 100% right. Especially if he's a European. Well, yeah, but even some of the college players because you didn't have a tournament. You know, and most people... The European ones are the easiest ones.

Of course, but you could say that every year about them. But this year, especially because you didn't have an NCAA tournament where a lot of these guys became stars. Yeah. Well, I mean, I thought it was a great tweet. I thought it was totally spot on. And by the way, literally an hour and a half earlier, Scott and I were on the phone together. and I just said, are you into this NBA draft? And he goes, no, not at all.

I just got out of a meeting and I just, you know, in preparing for the show and I just said to everybody, who really cares about the NBA draft? And by the way, I want to clarify, because when we say nobody cares, we realize there are people that care. That's not, we're not being literal. Okay, we are, it's a conversation about whether or not it rises to the level of like mass appeal. And last night, for me, I could sense, no way does this NBA draft rise to the level of mass appeal. Look, I don't even know if it does when it happens in June. You know,

a week after the NBA finals, you know, typically end after a year in which the NCAA tournament, you know, sometimes you have a star player like Zion Williamson, and that makes the draft more interesting to watch to see and listen, you know, whatever. But last night, I was like, I don't even want to watch it and he goes yeah i don't either and then i saw revel tweet that out and then the best was the responses to revel bad take darren some people do know some don't um how about maybe for people like you darren but but some people actually care about the draft okay whatever um i scott said to me he goes well why are you going to watch it then and i said yeah i don't know why it's not like i have to spend a lot of time talking about it on the show tomorrow.

Yesterday I had Tommy Shepard on the show. He's great, by the way. I've always liked Tommy. Had Jalen Sticks Smith on the show. Had Chris Miller on the show, but mostly was because of the Westbrook Wall stuff, which I do want to get your opinion on here at some point because you haven't had a chance to weigh in on that.

But anyway, this is a long way of getting to. I recorded the draft. I did not watch the draft. chose instead, Tommy, to continue to watch something that you recommended, The Queen's Gambit. It is so good. Yes, it is. It is so... For a show about chess, it's pretty good.

Well, I mean, I know... I mean, I'm not a chess player. I know how to play chess, and I... Yeah, me too. And I play chess a lot. You know, like I think I may have mentioned this before, one of my boys, early in the pandemic for the first couple of months. We got into a real, you know, hey, let's play chess again. And for like a month and a half, we were playing, you know, every other day. But by the way,

that wore pretty thin. And we haven't played for the last five months. But you don't have to be a chess fan, you know, or understand anything about chess to enjoy this. That's my point. I mean, if you told people it's a show about a chess player, people would say, what do you? I mean, look at you with, you know, like you got two heads. Right. But it's, it's a, it's a terrific show. And again, it's a story by Walter, based on a book by Walter Tevis, who wrote the book, The Hustler, which would turn out to be a great movie in itself. So it's written by a guy who knows how to write about the underlying issues of competition. Is it fiction? Yes. Okay, I wasn't, I wasn't actually sure about that. I was going to look that up at some point. I didn't know if it was a

true story or not. No. This is going to be, this is one of those. recommendations that rarely the show co-hosts here, Sheehan and Levero, can make together. Because usually Tommy has to be, you know, at the forefront of something like once it becomes popular, if somebody recommends it to him, he's not going to watch it. He's got to discover it himself. Exhibit A, the Queen's Gambit. I mean, but this, you know, very much like I recommended Akib to leave the other day, I would recommend the Queen's Gambit. I would. No, it's, so excellent. And I cannot wait to get home today to continue. I am through the first three episodes, and there's no chance that I will get beyond Saturday morning without having it finished.

Well, it's seven episodes. Yeah. And there is right now, and I think that's good, but I'll bet you there's going to be a lot of pressure. There is no second season because the story is pretty much kind of over. Oh, well, don't give it away. Okay, but there is no second season Okay, as of right now I want you to answer one thing for me Because I'm curious about this Does she reconnect with Mr. Shibble

At any point I'm not gonna tell you that Okay Why would you want me to tell you that? You know what, maybe I don't You don't want to know that Who is he? He's so recognizable

I forget He was in an HBO miniseries with John Oh no, no, no, no, I just got it. I just got it. He was in Molly's game. Okay. He was in Molly's game.

He was, you know, he was the guy that, you know, fell in, came in and, you know, was a big, big time guy, and it was his birthday, and he was supposed to be home celebrating his birthday with his family, and then he started to lose and he started to chase, and she gave him too much credit. Remember? Yeah, I do. He was also in a series with John Totoro on HBO call. I think it was the night before. Oh, I watched that.

Well, he was the detective in that. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. He was really good in that. The night. It was the night of. The night of was excellent. The night of was excellent. I didn't think it was that good. But I thought he was good. You know what's funny? You say that. I thought it was really good to start. And then I remember at the end thinking it, didn't pay off like I thought it should have. John Totoro was great. The guy that played, you know, the main character. I don't know what his name is. Yeah, I don't know what his name is either.

And Omar was in it. Omar was? Well, you don't know who Omar is because you haven't watched the wire. No, I know. Well, I'm not going to because I didn't discover it. Okay. I'm kidding. That's my biggest one.

Anyway, the Queen's Gambit. I can see you now in the vaccine line saying, I'm not going to watch. I'm not taking this vaccine. I didn't discover it. Well, I have gotten into a bit of an argument with my wife about taking the flu shot, which I've never taken before. And she said, no, you've got to take it because, you know, there's all this information now out there that says if you get a flu shot, you're actually reducing your chances

of getting COVID as well. Yes. Or having serious implications from COVID. So I think I will get a flu shot. Also, you're not old enough. You will be old enough soon. I think you're not old enough. There's a pneumonia vaccine.

Yeah, I know. You've told me about that. I'm not old enough to get a pneumonia vaccine. But you're getting there. And, you know, what I know, ask your CDC neighbor if the pneumonia vaccine offers you you protection from COVID-related pneumonia. Okay. I will.

I ask them that. I will. But I'm curious. I'm not, I would assume it does. Well, I mean, And, you know, I actually, to be honest with you, I haven't heard the term COVID-related pneumonia, but it makes sense because it's all respiratory. Yeah, I just came off with it. Oh, okay.

Are you being serious? Yes. Okay. Well, then I don't want to take it seriously then. One last thing on the Queen's Gambit, which is a recommendation. Tommy's recommendations typically are pretty good. Mine are much better. Yeah.

The afterlife, which I recommended at the beginning of the pandemic, which is the Ricky Jervais thing. You never did watch it, did you? No, I didn't watch it. I'm not a big Ricky Jervase fan. It doesn't matter. You'd probably love this. That was my recommendation at the beginning of the pandemic that many of you appreciated. And then many of you, and I was thinking about this, and I don't know what made me just think about this.

And I forget now what your reaction was to it. But now I've seen it like four or five. of times and pretty much typical of, well, let me just say that the once upon a time in Hollywood was a recommendation that I think I gave out even before the pandemic. I forget when I actually watched the movie. I love that movie so much now. It's like all of the Tarantino movies. It's like they're really good. And then when you get to the third or fourth time, they're even better. And this one totally fits into, like, you know, to me, In Glorious Basters is maybe my favorite. And it's still, every time I watch it, it gets better and better.

Did you like once upon a time in Hollywood or not? I liked it better the second time. I agree with you. It gets better when you watch it again. Absolutely. I wasn't crazy about it the first time. I watched it the second time. I liked it a lot more.

Yeah, I liked it a lot the first time, and I love it now. I've seen it. It's been on TV. It's been on HBO or whatever movie channels it's been running on recently. And it just, to me, it's just like, I don't know, you and I have a different opinion about Jackie Brown and the two killbills. I think they're okay. You loved them. Well, Jackie Brown's my favorite Tarantino movie.

In Glorious Fasters. And only Kill Bill Volume 2. Oh, not one. I'm not crazy about it. And glorious bastards, to me, out of all of his movies is the one that each time you watch it, it just gets better and better and better. And that's right there at number one with, you know, probably Pulp Fiction. Pulp Fiction still is every time it's on, it's like a lot of those movies.

It's hard to not watch it. Anyway, so I did not watch the NBA Draft Live, but I did afterwards, you know, sort of fast-for. through it. It was completely, thank God I didn't watch it live. I really, I think I would have been bored by the whole thing. You know me, I love basketball and I love this time, you know, the draft time of the year to give you a couple of players that I think, you know, the wizard should draft or a couple of players that I think will actually be, you know, really good pros. And by the way, probably one of my many, but near the top of the list, all time got right, was Kauai. Leonard. Oh, absolutely.

And I mean, you should, you should be in that job based on that. You know what? So here's what I was going to say. I don't know. I didn't know anything. I'm not kidding, you know, I'm serious. Well, thank you. Let's also remember you and I would know, was Doc in me sitting there having a long conversation with Ernie Grunfeld before the Steph Curry draft, the draft in which they traded for Mike Miller and Randy Foy, number five overall, to give to Flip Saunders. Got rid of Ricky, the draft for Ricky Rubio.

Well, I'll never forget telling Ernie, you know, we had, we sat there after a show, and we had had Flip on, we had had Ernie on, and it was the, you know, it was like two days before the, or no, it was like a couple weeks before the draft because they had hired Flip, whatever. I think that's why we're there. And I said to Ernie, I go, I think Steph Curry's going to be a really good NBA player.

He's like, eh, you know, I. And I said, watch how quick his releases. Look at how he can create space with his ball handling. He's going to be really good. And then he said to me, he goes, and to give him credit, he said, James Hardin. He goes, James Hardin's the guy I love in this draft. He liked Ricky Rubio a lot, too. Now, they never had a chance to draft Hardin because he went three in that draft, I think.

But he really liked Hardin. And I remember, I didn't love Hardin at Arizona State. I actually thought he was slow and weight, unathletic, which he really was. You know, he's never been a superb athlete, but I'll never forget him saying, James Hardin's going to be a prolific score in the NBA. And he was right about that,

but I was right about Steph Curry. And then, of course, the draft where O'Yon Vesley was picked, in 20 in what year was that I forget what the draft that was now where they took Vesley what year did they take Vesley 2011 was it 2011 Vesley? Yeah Vesley was 2011 and then Kauai Leonard went 15 so a lot of teams passed on Kauai Leonard and he loved that Yon Vesley anyway I'm getting to this I didn't I don't know anything about you know Denny you know of Dia you know the player from Israel that they drafted. But I do respect Mike Schmitz, who I've had on the podcast, I've had on the

radio show before. He has become a pretty big deal at ESPN when it comes to the NBA draft and college draft. And he was part of the broadcast last night. I don't know if it's the first time he's been on the main set with Billis and Jay Williams and Reese last night. But he was on there. and he said when they drafted him, when they drafted Denny Avita from Israel, the highest drafted Israeli player of all time. And he said, the Wizards just got the steal of the draft. And if you looked at some of the mocks, which I was half paying attention to, a lot of people had him going as high as four after the three players that were thought to be,

you know, the three players in the running for number one, Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman and Lamello Ball were gone, and he slipped to nine. So I watched a bunch of video of him last night, and I know it's video of European players and the whole thing, but, and I'm not going to, I have no idea who's going to be good and who isn't from this draft. And I think it's going to be almost like that draft in 2013 when Anthony Bennett went number one and Otto Porter went three and Alex Lenn and Ben McElmore. It was just such an unimpressive draft at the time and still is to this day for the most part. I mean,

there were some players, don't get me wrong, that were okay. But you know, this draft is typically a 10% hit rate on everybody, first and second round. But I'm watching highlights of this dude, Tommy. He's got the kind of game that totally, I think, fits for the NBA. No idea. I really didn't know much about him before last night. And I'm just watching YouTube highlights. And I'm listening to people I respect talk about him. I'm going to be very curious to see if they got this one right. And I'm rooting for Tommy Shepard to get it right, by the way. I really would. But anyway, I liked what I saw. Tommy Shepard, from what I know, has a reputation as being one of the, one of the most plugged in people on international players in the NBA. I mean, that's his claim to fame.

And Ernie didn't listen to him a lot of times. So I've given Tommy Shepard a clean slate, you know, just because he worked for Ernie, I don't put any of Ernie's sins on him. Right. because I know there was some conflict there. And Tommy Shepard has a lot of expertise and a lot of good sources on international players. So I give them the benefit of the doubt in that case. But as far as being a fit for the NBA,

here's what Scott Brooks apparently said about Avdija. Denny Avdia. It's Avdia. I believe that's how it's pronounced. That's a way I would pronounce it. Yeah. Yeah.

According to Brooks, his shooting range is not bad. Well, that's what you want in an NBA player in 2020. Well. Somebody who's shooting's range is not bad. So. You know, that's like saying, what's next? He has good pen. No, you know, per usual, you're just, you're missing the context.

The context of that is that the crucial. criticism of him is that he's not a good shooter. No, he's not a good shooter. That he's an inconsistent shooter. So let me just tell you what I saw watching him on YouTube highlights last night. I saw a guy with a very good stroke. So whether or not he's been shooting a high percentage or not, and I saw that he was 32% recently on three-pointers and 58% on free throws,

which is shocking to me. I saw a guy that squares up well and has a very good-looking stroke. But he's not a good shooter right now. I'm surprised. He's your knife pick in the drag. I'm surprised that he's a... I think what Scott Brooks was saying is that don't necessarily pay attention to the numbers over there. He's got a good stroke and he'll end up being a good shooter.

It'll be much easier to shoot in the NBA than it will in Israeli basketball. Well, you know what? Actually, the way it's played over it. here, sort of. I mean, there's not a whole lot of defense. It's certainly not in the bubble. I have no idea. I just, when I was watching it, it's funny, one of my boys, my youngest at Penn State, he texts me early this morning. He goes, I watched the highlights. He goes, Luca. He goes, he's Luca, Donchich. And I said, he's, he, there's a lot of. You sure he didn't mean Luca Brotze? Yeah. And, and I said,

I go, there's a lot of similarities in the way they playmake, and they're good passers, and they're both 6-9 or whatever Luke is. Luca might be 6-10. But Luke is much more of a point. I mean, you want the ball in his hands all the time. I don't know if you want that with this guy, but I could see it. I could see it. The big difference is Luke is bigger and stronger, even as a super young player.

And this guy is sort of rail thin. I don't even know what his weight is, but I'm going to guess he's like 200 or 200. Well, you can't be 200 pounds at 6.9. He's probably like 2.15, 220, something like that. And Luca, I'm going to look up what Lucas is. Luke is just thicker, much thicker. Luca, Luca's only 6'7, first of all. And he's 2.30.

Yeah, Luca's just thicker to me in terms of the way he looks. But there are similarities in their game. What did you say? I thought he was bigger. Yeah, so did I. So did I. I thought he was bigger, too. And so...

Well, you know, this kid will have a chance to learn how to shoot under the mentorship of John Wall. All right. So let's get to that real quickly. And then we're going to get to football stuff. So what did you think of the story, multiple stories from the athletic and then confirmed. And then Tommy Shepard, Tommy, was on my show yesterday. And I said, tell us what's going to be. going on there. And he starts giving me, well, Kevin, you know, you've been in the business for a long time.

You know, these things. These things get out and that, you know, teams are talking to each other. And, you know, teams like to talk to each other about lots of things. It's sort of unfortunate that it got out. But, you know, that's what it is. And I just said to him, I go, you're right. I've been around long enough to know that what you just gave me was not a denial. So, and he just laughed. So they were, they talked to the rockets. This was a real thing about Westbrook. And it's not over yet. I would assume that it's not over yet. Apparently Houston wants more than Wall. Why do you think the Wizards are willing to deal John Wall? Well, he's damaged goods, from one thing.

Before he got hurt, I knew that he was a major headache behind the scenes for them. I don't know what he's been doing since, you know, he hasn't been playing. Well, he had the video with the game. you know, I know, I don't care about that. Which he had to profusely apologize. Yeah,

but you know who does care about that? Ted. You're damn right, he does. Yeah, I know. That's bad business. That's bad business for a team that needs business. Yeah.

I'll grant you that. But he's, John Wall's just not that impressive a player anymore. And now he's damaged goods coming off multiple surgeries. So, look, I've said before, I've said for years now,

Russell Westbrook is a loser. You're never going to win, and I mean win, I mean win an NBA title with Russell Westbrook on your team. At some point, he may win an NBA title when he's a passenger, an older passenger on a team where there's other guys leading the charge. But Russell Westbrook is never going to lead you to an NBA title. That said, the wins are much better with Russell Westbrook than John Wall. You know, I've been a big Westbrook fan over the years. It was funny because when this stuff came out, you know, there are a bunch of people tweeting me saying,

oh, Sheehan's going to be, you know, over the top, over the moon, over this. I'm actually not. And although I think it would be a better story for the Wizards, I think it would generate more interest for the Wizards. I really do. I don't know if Wall... I think they'd be more competitive. I don't know if Wall's damaged goods or not.

I have no idea what he's going to return as after the injury. I mean, Russell, you know, Russell Westbrook's had a lot of issues, you know, with knees, et cetera, and some injuries in recent years. It's not like he's been perfectly healthy every year of his career either. In many ways, I think I'd really get excited about it, but I'm with you. I've come around to feeling this way. There's nobody that tries or competes harder than Russell Westbrook in any professional sport that I watch. That's my opinion. And I've always loved that about it.

him. He's also a really good player, like an MVP, like a three-time triple double guy after it had been, I don't know, Tommy, 50 years since the Big O had done it. But, you know, and the truth is, like, if you go back to when they made it to the finals, you know, Westbrook was the alpha, more than Durant was, you know, in that series against the heat. They were never going to win that series. The series that really they should have won to make it back to the NBA finals, was the 2016 conference finals when they were up 3-1 against Golden State. And Westbrook was dealing in that series. And in game five, you know, with a chance to put them away at home,

Kevin Durant was 12 of 35 or whatever from the field, you know, in that game. It was something horrific. And they blew a lead and they blew the game. And unfortunately, Golden State went on to win, come back and win that, and then eventually win the NBA title. But anyway, Westbrook, has, I mean, I'm not sitting here trying to diagnose, but he's got that attention deficit thing. His mind is, his mind is racing so fast and it's ahead of his body.

And in crunch time, in the postseason, you've got to be able to slow everything down. And he's never been able to slow everything down. He is, you know, a thousand miles an hour all the time when it's not a. appropriate to be that. And what ends up happening, and it's happened a lot of times in the postseason, he becomes a turnover machine. They are horrible decisions. He's making at full speed when he needs to slow down. And the truth is he's become a worse shooter, you know, in recent years. He actually looks very much to me at times like a guy that's very, that lacks a lot of confidence in his jump shot, you know, especially as a three-point shooter.

Because, you know, there were various times where he wasn't a horrible three-point shooter. But he's become a really bad three-point shooter. And, you know, how do you play around him? Like Scott Brooks coached him and Durant together. He knows what he would be getting. So I'm assuming if they were really having these conversations, Scott Brooks told Tommy Shepard and Ted Leonas, Yeah, I can coach Russ.

But I don't know how it would work with Beal. I think it would work better with Beal than with Hardin because Beal doesn't have to have the ball in his hands like Hardin did and does. But it's not going to lead to anything great. No. No, come on. Come on. That's not what I'm talking about.

They'd be more competitive with Westbrook than John Walker. I don't know that. I don't know that to be true. I think they will. I mean, I think it's possible. It's not going to translate into any noteworthy success. No. I mean, I would be excited about Wall if he's back to Wall athletically, and I don't know if he is or isn't, nor to you.

I mean, we would assume after a rupture of Achilles that there may be a long-term issue with an athletic fast player like John. But, you know, we were told that he was really hurt over that last year, year and a half. when he was playing and that he might actually be better and more physically fit. But whatever. I mean, there is, I think a healthy John Wall, Bradley Beal, Davos Bertans, all right, they need him. Ruy, who I'm still not completely sold on, you know, is a group that if, you know, it's all about John being John again, is a group that could do what they did before, get to the playoffs and maybe win a series. And that's all I would see with Russell Westbrook. And in place of John Wall is a team that could go to the postseason and maybe win a series. That's it.

See, the reason for that more than any other reason is Bradley Beals not a number one player on a championship contender. He's a number two player. He's a number two option on a championship team, on a legitimate championship contender. He's developed into an elite NBA score. Don't get me wrong, but he's not a top five or top 10 player in the game. You know, So he should have probably made one of the top three teams, which he did not last year. He probably should have made the third team. You could have made the case for him making the third team. I think actually he should have been on the third team.

But that puts him in the top 11 to 15 players. Well, you don't win a title in the NBA with your best player being number 12 in the league. You have to have a top fiver or you got no shot. And they would not have a top fiver with Westbrook or. Beal or Wallenbeel. So they're not going to contend for an NBA title in either scenario. With that said, Russell Westbrook might be a lot of fun

as long as he could stay healthy because he's not always been healthy. Yeah, they'd be more fun to watch. I mean, I'm all in favor of the trade. Absolutely. Yeah, but you're, I think. But Oklahoma City would be nuts to do it even up.

Houston. He plays for Houston. Houston, Houston, I mean, Houston would be nuts to do it even up. Well, I don't think the Wizards should be giving up a lot more. Did you see Oklahoma City over the next six years had 17 first round picks? What? Yes. I did not see that.

What are you talking about? That's what somebody posted on Twitter. Maybe it's wrong. Maybe it's wrong. 17? Over the next six years. That seems crazy. Yeah.

I'm looking for something that would tell me that that's what they have. I don't know. Thunder Future NBA draft picks. Complete list of OKC's bounty after the Al-Horford trade the other day. 2020, they had their number 17

picked from the Timberwolves last night. 2021, they have two. 2022, they have 1, 2, 3, but they're, you know, there's a lot of protected picks in here, so they may, like, the,

son's pick if it's outside the top 13. Right. And then in 2023, it looks like they have a lot of first round picks between now in 2026. Thunder stockpiled 17 first round picks through 2026. Well, that's six years from now. Yeah, no, you're right. But a lot of them are protected, so they're not guaranteed to get them.

No, they're not. Yeah. Well, great. You know what they have to do with one of those 17 is get a top five player in the league? and luck into that or they're not going to win a title. Well, they got a better chance of doing it than your team here in Washington with 17 shots at it. I guess. One last thing.

I'm really happy for sticks, Jalen Smith. I had him on the radio show yesterday, too, really smart kid. I've been told how smart he is before and what a great kid he is. He, you know, it's funny, these mock drafts, you know, you start looking at him. I look at him solely because as a Maryland fan, I want to, you know, like whether it was Bruno or Kevin Hurd or Anthony Cowan or Sticksmith or now, you know, it's Wiggins. And you just want to see, as a Maryland fan, it gives you pride that a guy's being mocked really high, but you also hope that he gets mocked low, so he comes back, you know, and he doesn't go early. And so all year long, you know, Sticks was basically, for a while, he was mocked as a second round pick.

And I remember talking, I think I talked to Turgeon during the season or maybe right before the season last year. And I said, is there any chance sticks would be back? He goes, no. And I said, you know, he's mocked in like the second round. He goes, stop paying attention to those mocks. He goes, there's no chance he's a second rounder. Now, you know, could he, you know, there were some things he said he's got to improve upon and he's got to do this and he's got to do that. And he knew that there were certain things he had to work on.

but, you know, the people that really know, know more than these mock draft sites. And he went 10th. Like, he wasn't even close. He was, you know, easily in the lottery. Going to Phoenix, which, by the way, they have an interesting team. And with Chris Paul there, actually, Sticks will be a really good pick and pop guy. Anyway, I guess that is enough on the draft, don't you think? Yeah, I think so.

Me too. We're back to talk about the Washington football team and a couple of news items related to them when we return right after this word from one of our sponsors. There was some breaking news since the end of the radio show this morning. They put Jaron Christian the left tackle on injured reserve. So Cornelius Lucas is hurt too. So they're a little bit thin offensive line-wise

heading into the game against Cincinnati on Sunday. Tommy will have his Cincinnati Washington pick before the end of the show. But a couple of things to get to. So Ron Rivera was asked on Monday during his Monday press conference following the game on Monday about the kicking situation. Are you considering after Dustin Hopkins missed another kick? He's 30th in field goal percentage in the NFL. Are you considering a move there at kicker bringing in some kickers?

And Ron Rivera said on Monday, quote, It's something that we are talking about and discussing. The hard part is when you bring a guy in, you have to make sure you have a guy that fits you that has a lot of experience because you're going to replace an experienced guy. Again, it's something that we're discussing. So yesterday and his presser in which he was a bit snippy, did you watch any of this from yesterday? No, I didn't. So he was, I actually kind of liked it. He was a bit snippy and short, but somebody, but here we go again with the, you know,

I mean, we're going to nitpick it here a little bit, but he was asked, you know, I think by Pete Haley, who works with JP and those guys over at NBC Sports Washington. He said, so you said Monday that you'd be considering, you know, a kicker, you know, bringing in some kickers. And Ron immediately bites back. And he said, I didn't say anything about considering a kicking change. Let's be straight on that. The only thing is they asked me if I'm thinking about it, and I said, yeah, I'm thinking about it, but nothing about a kicking change. And then there's a follow-up, and he said, well, like I said, I've said nothing about a kicking change. I mean, even in the answer yesterday, I didn't say anything about considering a kicking change.

Let's be straight on that. The only thing is they asked me if I'm thinking about it, thinking about a kicking change, and I said, yeah, I'm thinking about it. I'll tell you why I bring it up. I'll tell you why I bring this up. Because I think this is another example of now Ron being another coach that's starting to get this feeling that the DC media is too tough and asks questions in trying to entrap him. Which is so unbelievable because I'm telling you, I'm telling you the amount of cheerleaders in this town, it's unbelievable. I mean, I can't fathom. This can't, what you're saying can't possibly be true.

He can't believe that. Well, they don't you believe that every single coach that's been here over the last, you know, decade plus, not Joe, but, you know, whether it was Zorn or Shanahan thought it was a tough media market, Jay obviously thought it was their PR people have always thought that it's really a tough media market. So Ron thinks that now. Oh, my God. This is unbelievable. Well, he clearly, there's no words for that.

He clearly, his answer on Monday absolutely made it imperative that somebody follow up on that yesterday. You would agree with that, right? Yes. So they did. No one was trying. It wasn't a gotcha question. It was, you know, you said you were going to consider, you know, you said you were going to talk about it and consider it. And he denies it.

But by the way, in the denial, he admits it, too. So it's like both. But I brought it up because I thought the whole press conference yesterday, and I liked it a little bit. I liked that he was, you know, a little bit shorter and not so long-winded. But I am, it leads me to believe that he's now on the page of, oh, these things, they're out to get us. They're out to take my words and twist them. Well, I think, you know, with every game they lose, and there will. be more that they will lose, he's going to get more and more testy because it's no fun being

three and 13. No, it's not, it's not fun being three and 13. And that could be where they're headed. Yes. I don't think they are though. It's going to be better than that. See, cheerleader. No, I don't put you in that category. Um, but I, uh, anyway, I thought that that was funny. First of all, I mean, I, it's like I was Ron Rivera. I was a fan of the hiring. I was a fan of him. I'm not bailing on him. I think it's been a tough year for him for personal reasons, clearly.

I'm compassionate about that. He's been fighting cancer for crying out loud. You can tell during a lot of these pressers and a lot of the stuff that he's been a little bit off. But at the same time, you know, it's so consistently. mixed messaging. It's, I just don't, I'm unsure of him. Like, I asked this question and we took calls this morning, Tommy, on the following question. Have you seen anything about this new regime through nine weeks, through nine games that tells you it's going to get better? And I, and I

asked that question because I sort of asked that question of myself and how, what do I think? And my answer is, I haven't really seen anything about this new regime that tells you. me it's going to get better. But I'm unsure of it because I do think that Ron Rivera is a quality guy and was a quality coach. And this, by the way, again, put the disclaimer, put the Surgeon General's warning to the side. But in terms of Rivera, you know, is there anything that you would say tells you it's going to get better? Anything about anything that's going on that tells you it's going to get better? Well, again, this is not fair to Washington football fans. And I think that like any coach, Barry Trotz didn't recognize this until maybe the last year he was here.

And Ron Rivera needs to recognize this. It'll make his job easier. When you take this job, you take all the history that comes with it. Yeah, you do. You can't sit there and say, well, that was, I wasn't here then. That doesn't matter to Washington football fans. You know, they've been here. They've said, and you have to recognize that and carry the.

those losses and that dysfunction on your shoulders, however unfair it is, that'll go a long way towards getting people to realize that, okay, we got to be a little patient. If you recognize the pain and say, I understand and you have every right to feel that way, I think it would go, it would go some way towards having people be a little bit more patient. Oh, it would go a long way. That's the best advice anybody could give the new person in town taking that job. And this year, I think, it's just a throw. It's such a bizarre year.

It's a bizarre for all of us. So why would the football team and Ron Rivera be any different? It's almost like a throwaway year. You know, so, I mean, I'm not judging Rivera on anything really moving forward. I mean, there may be some things I disagree with along the way, some bizarre moments along the way, but in the scheme of long-term success, I don't count it one way or the other. It's almost like, just like, you know, we're swimming until a lifeboat comes by. There is, you know, in tying this back to sort of the Rivera getting snippy,

Jack Del Rio being sensitive on Twitter to fan criticism. My advice to them would be, in addition to your advice, which is great advice, which is, you know what, I understand what you've been through. And we're working to make it better. And you have every right to feel the way you have felt. Now, the problem with that, of course, is it goes hand in hand with Brian Lafamina, admitting that they don't have a fan base. anymore and they don't have a ticket base waiting list, which got them promptly fired.

But it would be really good. It would be a great connection. It would be a reality connection with all of us that have been here. Because in many ways, like, it's time for him to embrace the understanding that his fan base is, you know, has been insulted and treated so poorly and they're victims. Like he's dealing with victims of a 20-year relationship that has been a one-sided insult beatdown. And at the same time, he has to tune out the media noise that seems to be irritating to him and to Jack Del Rio. Because, you know, the media asking the questions it asks is also coming from a perspective of understanding who the owner is. You know, when he told Ben Standing last week, when he had that line where he said there's a group of you guys that I think have the right attitude towards what we're trying to do here, and then a couple of you that don't and think it's a joke.

And honestly, that really pisses me off. You know, that's not the right answer, coach. No, that's not the right answer. No, it's not saying there's some of you that are pulling for us and then there's some of you that just aren't on board with the team. The bottom line is he and Jack Del Rio and, you know, there are a lot of people that come into this organization that don't have the perspective of two decades of living with Dan Snyder and dealing with the ramifications of one of the worst owners in sports. You know, we have seen Tommy, right? we have seen a parade of distinguished men come into this town as head coaches, Marty Schottenheimer, Joe Gibbs, Mike Shanahan, and Ron Rivera would be in that category.

Yes. Who have seen the worst and can now tell you why the fans were the way they were, the media asks the questions they asked. Again, it always reminds me, and I know I tell this story. probably too much. But the day that you and I and I ended up asking Jim Zorn after a win, after a win, a 9 to 7 win over the Rams, if he was concerned that if he didn't beat the Lions,

he might be in jeopardy of losing his job. And you and I both sat there together and we saw his reaction. He was incredulous. He was incredulous. And I told him afterwards, I said, I know that you're not happy. And I know that that is a question that you, can't even fathom could be asked after a win, but it's because your perspective isn't what our

perspective is. And that is one coach after another coming and going very quickly. And then by by the end of that year, he was sitting in the studio with us for the whole show. For the whole show. Yeah, I've told people that story. Because he hated going out into that building. Oh, he hated it. And he would remember he would look at us every once in a while. Oh, well, I told this story to Cooley, I think the other day, not to you, but the line about when Rivera said to standing last week, when he said that some of you guys are fascinating, you know, talking about the beat reporters. And do you remember when Jim Zorn, one of those days where he was hanging out listening to the entire show and not leaving the studio? Yes, I remember.

He would look like in between breaks, he would go, God, I'm listening to you guys? That's fascinating. And I'm like, the last time I heard fascinating from a coach about media members was Jim Zorn. That's a bit scary. But, oh, my God. You see, overall, I think Ron Rivera's done a really good job with the media. I mean, you know, the little hiccups here and there, you know, I mean, everything's, everything in our lives is getting old right now. So patience is going to wear thin for anyone.

So I give him absolutely the benefit of the doubt in this situation. We know Ron Rivera can coach. We know that he had a, that he, that media members in Charlotte, I'm not saying this is, this is necessarily a good thing, but media members got along with Ron Rivera in Charlotte. Jackdale Rio, we know, is a good defensive coach. Right. He's had good success everywhere he's been pretty much as a defensive coordinator.

He may be nuts, but he can coach. So ultimately, you think if things, you know, progress normally, they will find the path to being better. I think the additional advice to for Del Rio and for Rivera and Del Rio and anybody else that's new to town that's trying to change the culture is, look, the skepticism from everybody is totally justifiable. You need to understand that if you want us to go through the whole 20 years, we can do that. Just understand that the bottom line is that whether it's people in the media like me who are rooting, because that's not my job to be objective, I am rooting for him to succeed.

a lot of fans are rooting for him to succeed, but we're also very skeptical because of what we've seen. We've seen other very qualified men come in here and have the ability, and if they were in other places, to turn it around, but they've left essentially as lesser men or lesser reputation men because of their relationship and because they worked in this organization for a bad owner.

So, you know, to somebody like Ron Rivera, look, if you're feeling like the media is not on your side or that fans are being too tough, this really isn't a super tough media market. You know, it's a team that people follow and are very passionately involved in following, and they will be critical. But it's that they're skeptical. They're very skeptical. And it's not you. It's the owner. I mean, that's the truth. I mean, look, I've said before, you know, when you come to this team and they don't do this as much as they used to, but people still like to do it, when you talk about the three Super Bowls and the proud tradition of this franchise, you get that, but you also get the other stuff too.

You can't, you can't separate it. You can't say, yeah, we've got three Super Bowls in our trophy case. and say, don't tell me about all the stuff that happened before I got here. I can't do that. Right, exactly. All right. Two things to finish up with. One will be Tommy's Cincinnati, Washington prediction.

And then I'm going to share with you a couple of Vegas tells. And when I say Vegas tells, I think some of the lines this weekend and even last weekend are telling you, and some of the futures odds are telling you what they think about some of the teams in the NFL right now, and I think a couple of them are interesting, and one of them deals with a team that we'll be playing tonight. We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right, Tom, you'll have his Washington-Cincentrity prediction here momentarily. A quick word about Windonation. If you're in the market for new windows and it was cold this morning and it's going to continue to get colder as we approach winter, and you should be thinking about new windows if your

windows are old or you just want to upgrade. If you're thinking about that, please go to Windonation.com. or call them at 86690 Nation. Right now they're giving out a deal that you can't beat. It's basically half price. You buy two windows, you get too free. You can get a house full of windows for less than $75 a month. And I've used window nation. Family members have used wind donation. Listeners have used when donation. Not one complaint. I swear my children, that's true. Not one person has ever called me to say that the experience wasn't a good one. You don't have to trust me. You can just call them and get a free estimate, and they'll give your references, and if mine isn't good enough, call them at 86690 Nation.

Go to windonation.com. You get a free estimate online, virtual quote, or they'll come into your home following all CDC guidelines. Again, 86690 Nation or windownation.com and tell them that Kevin Sheehan sent you. So before we get to your prediction on the game on Sunday, I wanted to mention. a few things because first of all, this is actually the only thing right now that sports-wise seems to have it together. Poor college football seems to be falling apart before our very eyes. Maryland, Michigan State canceled Saturday. By the way, Mike Loxley has COVID. Wish Coach locks the best. Hopefully he is symptomless or very mild symptoms. But the Maryland, Ohio

state game got canceled last week, and they just canceled the Maryland-Michigan State game, which was supposed to take place at noon on Saturday. And college football games are just getting postponed and canceled all over the map. I mean, we're going to end up with a very strange college football season. But the NFL's been intact. We had some postponements. We had some reschedules, but it's intact as of now. And I'm enjoying this NFL season, even if Washington's season isn't a great one.

But there are a couple things that I found interesting as I started to look at the point spreads for this weekend's games in preparation a little bit for the smell test, which will be out tomorrow. Some of you probably don't even want it. So I told you last week that I think Vegas is down on Seattle, that the Seahawks who were just a couple of weeks ago, the favorites to win the NFC championship, Russell Wilson was the favorite to win the MVP. all of those things were coming together. Seattle looked like a juggernaut. Well, they've lost two out of their last three. The Rams beat them last weekend. I'm sorry, they've lost three out of their last four because they've lost two in a row and then they lost in their last game against Arizona. They play Arizona tonight in the Thursday night game. Right now, the Saints, the Packers, the Bucks, the Rams, and the Cardinals on my site are all better, you know, better shots odds-wise to win the NFC. championship. Then you get Seattle, and then right below Seattle is Minnesota. Minnesota's been climbing up the odds rankings for NFC championship odds. Now, there's a big difference between Seattle and Minnesota. I've got Seattle at 10 to 1. I've got Minnesota at 25 to 1. But the point is, is you now have five teams in front of Seattle and the NFC, you know, in Vegas in terms of

futures odds to win the NFC championship. They're only a three-point favorite tonight. over Arizona. Arizona, you know, one on a Hail Mary last week, but the week before, they lost to Miami. Vegas is down on Seattle right now. That's just a heads up for those of you that are thinking about putting money on Seattle because the odds are better. Look, I think it's risky to short Seattle, Tommy, because they've got Russell Wilson and they've got D.K. Metcalf. They have two really exceptional players. Russell Wilson, by the way, not even close to a favorite now to win the MVP. Patrick Mahomes is ahead of him and let me pull up the latest MVP odds on my site. Mahomes, Rogers, Murray. Actually, Murray and Wilson have the same odds, but Mahomes and Rogers are

ahead of Wilson. Wilson was the favorite two weeks ago. He had moved ahead of Mahomes. Anyway, Vegas through their futures odds and through their point spreads here telling you, they don't think Seattle's as good as everybody else thinks they are. number one. Number two. Vegas is telling you this weekend in particular, but I have a feeling that it may be moving forward here through the rest of the year, that Dallas isn't as terrible as we all think. Uh-oh. Yeah. I don't know if I buy it, but I do, in looking at the line for this week's game against the Vikings, they're only a seven-point underdog. They were a 14-point underdog to the Steelers two weeks ago, you know, in their last game before they're by, and as we know,

they nearly pulled off the upset. Now, that was with Garrett Gilbert at quarterback. Dalton is back, but the odds on them winning the division have crept up, even though they haven't won, they're two and eight, and it's, you know, in part because everybody else is losing. But the updated division odds, Philadelphia is still a favorite, and then the Giants are the second favorite now. Washington and Dallas are nearly the same at this point. Washington's 9 to 1, Dallas is 10 to 1. Dallas was 15 or 17 to 1 before the Pittsburgh game. And I think I know why. I think they look at Dallas and they say there's just too much talent for them to be this terrible. And they played a really good game again. Pittsburgh, you know, the perceived best team in the NFL. And Dallas can run the football. They actually have more talent up front on defense and have a decent pass rush. They've not been good at stopping the run, but they have Washington, the Eagles, the Giants, the 49ers, the Bengals, and the Vikings who are red-hot right now on their schedule. So Vegas is telling you, don't

give up on Dallas yet for the NFC East. That's another tell. The point spread this week's a big tell too. I promise you Dallas is going to be in the smell test, and I am six and oh on games involving the Vikings this year, either having the Vikings or being against the Vikings. And I don't know that the Vikings lose this game, but I bet this is a close game Sunday, especially Minnesota coming off Monday night, the emotion of beating the bears for the first time in a few years, Kirk being phenomenal the other night and winning for the first time on Monday night football. This is a trap game Sunday for Minnesota. So that's another tell.

Here's one more. Vegas thinks Indianapolis is really good. So do I. I think the Colts are really well coached. I think their defense is exceptional. Philip Rivers has all of a sudden got it together after a rough start, you know, first year in this place. He's got some weapons. They're not loaded with weapons, but they got enough.

That game against Tennessee a week ago tonight, right? A week ago, it was a Thursday night game. So impressive. They've won three out of their last four. The one loss was to the Ravens. That loss was a little bit misleading. It was a very tight game. Baltimore had a fumble return for a touchdown,

and they also had a phantom interception in that game, in a 10-10 game. They're favored over Green Bed. Sunday, Indianapolis is. They're favored over the Packers. And they, I'm telling you, Vegas is looking at Indianapolis right now, who by the way is now a heavy favorite to win the AFC South over Tennessee after winning that game last week. Vegas, the tell on Indy is that Vegas really likes the Colts. So do I. I think the Colts could get to the final four of this whole thing. I think they're that good. Anyway, I wanted to share some of that with you.

I think there was one other thing that I had. I am interested to see, I think they think Washington's better than most people think. Washington's a one and a half point favorite right now over Cincinnati. Washington was only a two and a half point when the game went off Sunday at Detroit. And I think, you know, Thursday's game, the Thanksgiving Day game, I've already seen the look ahead line. It's a pick-um. I think Washington, Vegas realizes is better than their record indicates. And I would bet that they think the same way about the giants,

but we're not going to see that this weekend because the giants are in their by week. But the fact that the giants have climbed up to easily the second favorite in the division tells you that the odds makers out in the desert believe the giants are better than their record indicates. Anyway, wanted to share that. Any questions? No questions, boss. All right. What's your pick for Sunday? Well, the one question I would have on that is if Dallas is better than what we think, then I don't know where the third win is going to come floghing this year.

Right. When I say better than we think, it means that I think they believe Dallas isn't going to get blown out every single game the rest of the year, and they actually think that they're going to be competitive in some of their games. Like this weekend, coming off Monday night, given the fact, I mean, look, Dallas was impressive. against Pittsburgh, and they probably should have won that game. There was a terrible call on Pittsburgh's go-ahead drive late, but that went against the Cowboys. I think what they're saying is they're going to be an underdog in a lot of these games, and they're going to probably be worth playing as an underdog. And Dalton's back, and Dalton is better than what they had,

certainly better than the JMU kid. Anyway. Okay. Washington, Cincinnati. Look, the Bengals, like the Lions, are perfectly capable of self-destructing. And, you know, coughing the ball up to a defense and finding themselves down, themselves down 10-0 or 13-0 or 20 to 3 at the end of the first half. But what I think is going to happen is what has happened for the last three weeks. I think that Joe Burroughs and the Cincinnati offense can certainly outscore Alex Smith and the Washington offense. I think they'll take a lead early.

And I think they'll wind up with probably a two touchdown lead going into the fourth quarter. And hang on for a 31 to 24 win over Washington. 31, 24. Sean Springs told me this morning, he said he does not like the matchup for Washington's defense. He thinks that Burrow is really good at extending plays and that they're receiving core. If A.J. Green plays. He didn't practice yesterday. I don't know what it is today. But if you haven't watched T. Higgins, who if you're a college football fan, you certainly remember from Clemson the last few years. And he went in the second round. I mean, he was a projected first round guy potentially, ended up going in the second round.

He has been incredible this year. He is a big time guy. And they do. I mean, with Boyd and Higgins and A.J. green. And then if Mixen plays, he hasn't played recently. I think he's been out the last couple of games. But they are dangerous offensively. There's no doubt. They are. Put up points. Yeah. All right. 3124 Cincinnati. You got anything else? I got none. We can do it next week. Well, yeah. Yeah, I do have one other thing. Okay. You saw the Hall of Fame ballot came out this week. who's on the Hall of Fame and all that on the ballot. Did you see that?

Did you even bother with it? Not really. Oh, my God. Sorry. You do do a sports talk radio show, don't you? I do. I do. Tell me who was on the ballot.

Well, there's nobody on the ballot. What does that mean? I mean, Barry Cito, Tim Hudson, A.J. Burnett, Tori Hunter. I mean, are some of the new guys that are on the ballot. My point is that this year will be the best. chance for Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens and maybe Kurt Schilling to wind up getting in because there's really not a lot to root for. I mean, right now, I'm a generous voter and I usually typically have voted for all, you know, the 10, the limit you're allowed to vote for. Right.

But right now on the ballot, I would vote for three guys. Who? Omar Viscal, Billy Wagner, and Jeff Kent, who I've all voted for before. That's it. I wouldn't vote for anybody else on the ballot. Any holdovers or any of the new guys. So I think there are some people who just look at their ballots and say, wow, this is really empty and finally give against my better wishes because I don't vote for bonds or Clemens or shilling.

And I think this will be their best chance to get in because the ballots are weak. Now, bonds and Clemens, this is there next to last year. get in? Do you think they will get in? I think this is their best chance. No, I don't think they'll get in. But this is their next to last shot. Now I got one more shot after this year. And Robbie Canoe, who got suspended again for steroids for a year,

has totally torpedoed his chance of ever being in the hall of fame now. Yeah. Although, what did they owe him this year? 24 million, I think I read. Yeah, I mean, for the Mets, this is a good deal for this year. Yeah, right. I don't have to, but they still owe $48 million for the two years after that. Oh, my God.

Yeah. That's painful. They still own. I have one more thing for you. Yeah. Last night was the, believe it or not, the 35-year anniversary of the Joe Thysman injury game on Monday on football. It was November 18, 1985 when he went down in a heap with Lawrence Taylor putting hands over her. helmet and then waving people out quickly and and uh thysman was carted off with that broken leg that

ended his career that night against the giant jay schrader came in the first pass he threw his to art monk for a big play and um they were off and running uh and they came they they won the game washing wash their skins won the game 23 21 and schrader became a quarterback and then we had schrader doug williams and thank god we had doug williams eventually um god that was a weird night I was in that stadium that night. Were you really? Yeah, I was at the game. Wow.

Yeah, I mean, you didn't know sitting in the crowd. You knew something was wrong. And obviously, when Joe got carted off, you figured it was bad. And back then, you know, I didn't bring a radio to the game, but so many people around us in our section had radios. And then the word got out that it was, you know, a snap. It looked like a broken leg. And, you know, that was a strange, eerie moment.

but I remember the completion from Schrader to Art Monk when he came in. I think it was the first or second play after he came in, and the stadium was electric on that completion. And this is 1985, Tommy. You're playing the Giants at home on Monday night football. This is a big rivalry, big game. And you're feeling for Joe, no doubt, but you've got to win the game. Got to still go beat the Giants.

and they did. 2321. That was one of the years that they went 10 and 6 and did not make the postseason. It's amazing. You know, one of the things I've been doing at home, and I told you about this, I've been going back and transcribing a lot of interviews

I've done over the years. And one of the ones I did with Thaisman was with Thaisman, and, you know, he talked about the play. and that he said it changed his life completely. But this is what Theizman told me in this interview. And he's right, because I remember Joe the way he was pre-injury and post, and I've known him now a lot more post-injury.

He said, I had become a very self-centered egotistical person who really didn't give a damn about anybody but me. The only thing that mattered to me was being a football star, not playing football, not being part of a team, but being a football star. I was at the point of my life where you could say, even though I had all material things I wanted, I was probably as low as I could get looking back.

So he thinks it changed his whole perspective on life. And he is not that guy now. He's a friendly, warm, you know, generous guy now. And so as bizarre as this is, it changed his whole personality. Wow. I mean, that's cool that you go back. You should share that with him.

Oh, if he has a copy of my book, Hale Victory and oral history of the Washington Redskins, he can read it. He probably doesn't. By the way, just as another add-on to that season, that was a really cool story you told. I'm not moving on from it quickly because I didn't think it was interesting.

but I'm looking through the rest of that year, and they ended up winning five of their final six games because they went into that Monday night game. They were five and five. And remember, they had gone 82 division winner to the Super Bowl, won the Super Bowl. 83, 14 and two division winner to the Super Bowl, lost the Super Bowl. 84, they won the division in the final weekend of the year against St. Louis, against the Cardinals. So they had been a three-time division-winning team going into that 85 season, but they were five and five. And the Giants were, you know, and the Giants and the Cowboys in particular were really good teams. And this is the greatness of Joe Gibbs. This is why he has to be on anybody's short list, you know, top five, top six all-time coaches. I mean, Jay Schrader,

who had never played before was not like, you know, a first-round pick. What was he, a third round pick out of UCLA? I think a third round pick out of UCLA. I think so, yeah. And he, like in this day and age, if you lose Joe Thysman, your team is done. You know, there aren't backup quarterbacks. Jay Schrader comes in and coach Joe coaches them up to five wins in their final six games to go 10 and six. They missed the postseason.

They missed the postseason with a 10 and six mark. And they lost to the 49ers was their only loss. and it was a blowout loss, 35 to 8. They lost to the 49ers in early December. They beat the Giants, they beat the Steelers on the road, they beat the Eagles on the road, they beat the Bengals, and they beat the Cardinals to finish up the season to beat 10 and 6. And unfortunately, you know, that year was a really good year in the NFC East. The Cowboys were 10 and 6, the Giants were 10 and 6, Washington was 10 and 6,

but the Cowboys won the tiebreaker to win the division, and the Giants beat out Washington in the tiebreaker to win the wild card. So Washington was a 10-and-6 non-playoff team. Wow. But, I mean, Jay Schrader, comes in off the bench, and Coach Joe figures out a way to win five out of the final eight. And by the way, they're good on offense that year the rest of the way. They scored 30 against the Steelers. They scored 27 against Cincinnati, 27 against the Cardinals.

Not against the Niners, though. But anyway, I was just thinking about that. All right, we done. I think we're done, boss. All right, 3124 time he's got Cincinnati over Washington. Back tomorrow with Cooley to preview the NFL weekend and, of course, the Skins game against the Bengals.