The Kevin Sheehan Show - Rivera Won't Be Shy With New Owners

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

Kevin and Thom today on Ron Rivera saying that he learned what 'not' to do when ownership changed in Carolina and he won't make the same mistakes this time. The boys discussed what Rivera needs to do to stay on as head coach beyond 2023. The guys also talked Nats, Wizards, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. He is Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. Tommy's back on his regular schedule.

I'm watching the Masters as we're recording this on ESPN Plus. No, I'm not just watching the Masters. I'm going to pay attention more to Tommy than he's ever paid attention to me. But the Masters is going on. That's true. Unfortunately. That's true. What did I text you yesterday while you were on the radio?

You texted me yesterday on the radio that, well, you messed up the text. It didn't read the way you wanted it to read. Because I was speaking. I was speaking. I know. But basically, I texted and I said that, you know, the one time I turned on your show to listen to it and you're talking about golf. Well, I had Scott on. At least it was Van Pelt talking about golf.

That's true. You're right. So, yeah, thanks for listening. But now the hours fit your schedule a little bit better. Yes, they do. I think I'll be able to listen more. Yeah, if I haven't mentioned my radio show now is 10 to 1. I have discussed this, obviously.

And, you know, the podcast is getting out maybe a little bit later. I think today's will get out at a normal time. What will be eliminated, I think, unless it's a big news day, is our ability to get the podcast out super early, because it's supposed to come out after the radio show ends. But we will break that rule every once in a while and do an early morning podcast if the circumstances sort of dictate that. But when you have a menu of excellence, what's the best meal of the day?

What's the meal of the day you look forward to the most? Dinner. Dinner, I guess. This is a dinner podcast. cast right here. I like breakfast, though. I'm a big breakfast. I'm a huge breakfast guy. I'm a huge making breakfast for everybody guy. That's my meal that I make in our family. You never made me breakfast. I have not made you breakfast, but we've had breakfast together, but I haven't made you breakfast. Um, but, uh, yeah, uh, anyway, um, don't forget to rate us and

review us. We talked about this the other day about the, one-star review that we got, and we haven't gotten many of them. I made it clear. I thought I made it clear, Tommy, the other day, that I would read the one-star review, but I would not ever read another one-star review again, because I don't want to encourage one-star reviews or ratings. We haven't gotten any, I mean, we've gotten one, and maybe we've gotten two or three over the years. But for the most part, we get five stars. In fact, right now, our average rating on Apple with well over 4,000 ratings, that's a lot, by the way, for a podcast like ours. And by the way, as I've mentioned before, it's also a fraction of the audience that we have listening to the show, which is why I

encourage you to continue to consider rating and reviewing us, because I know most of you haven't done it, but that's okay. Our average star rating is 4.8 stars. That's a pretty damn good average, I would say. You know what I think? What? I think that means that you should contact Apple and say, you need to expand your star capability.

You need to have more than five stars. Because we're about to break out of that, and we need more stars. I am totally fine with the five-star system in 4.8 out of five as an average. This Apple review comes from toxic ills. Toxic ills, writes, love the show, been a regular listener of the radio show and the podcast for about three seasons now. My father and his father have always been huge 980 fans, 980 fans, and big fans of Kevin as well. As a young fan listening to the latest review, I couldn't disagree more.

I can't speak for everybody, but I love tuning in on the days Tommy is on, specifically for my daily dose of boring old man talk, in quotations. Keep up the great work. Yeah, that was the discussion, or as part of the one-star review, there was a complaint that we don't do enough sports, and we do boring old man talk. Old man. Okay, buddy. Old man, guess what I'm doing tomorrow night?

You're going to see a concert? Yes. What are you going to see tomorrow night? I forget. You told me. No, I haven't told you. Okay. Is this the surprise you had for me? Yes. Okay, what's the surprise? I'm going to see Bruce again tomorrow night.

Are you really? Are you taking Liz? No, a friend of mine, has an extra ticket, and he wants me to go with me. Wow. Twice in a week and a half for you. Wow. I know. I didn't see him for 50 years, and now I'm going to see him twice in like 10 days. That's awesome. Remember, oh, fuck. No, I'm thinking of somebody else.

Sorry, I'm thinking of somebody else. I thought it was you, but it's somebody else. So I'm not even going to tell the story. There's nobody like me. Anyway, don't forget to rate us and review us, but specifically now more important than ever is to follow us on Apple, Spotify, anywhere you can follow us. On Apple, there's a big follow button in the upper right-hand corner on Spotify. It's about midway down on the left-hand side. If it shows that you're not following us, just click on that follow button, and that helps us a lot as well. So I'm going to start the show with something that I think will be a decent segue into the Sam 40A story in the post that you referred me to right before this show started.

He had a one-on-one with Ron Rivera, and Ron Rivera talked about, you know, his experience previously in Carolina with an ownership change. Jerry Richardson was out, not forced out, but kind of forced out. He chose voluntarily to sell rather than potentially get forced out. David Tepper bought the team, and now he's going through the same thing again. So we'll get to that here in a moment. But it's perfect for this tweet, which came from Mike. Mike tweeted me yesterday. Attached is an article by John Kime before Sam Howell's start against Dallas.

What they said then sounds pretty similar to what they are saying now. Not revisionist history, just history. All this close reading of Ronnie's is getting tiresome. Ronnie's being the Galdi description of Ron's back and forth and waffling and saying one thing one day and something completely opposite the next. Mike, thank you. You can tweet me at Kevin Sheand, D.C. You can tweet Tommy and follow Tommy on Twitter at Tom with an H-O-M-Livero. So I've gotten a few of these recently, Tommy, people saying the parsing of every Ron Rivera media, you know, get together is getting boring.

Well, not everybody feels that way, but some of you feel that way, and that's fine. I mean, I can understand some of you would much rather I do every single day what I did yesterday, which was have Thorneisdram from, and be. We see Sports Edge and fantasy pros do a big draft segment three weeks before the draft. We are officially three weeks today. Three weeks from tonight, we are in round one of the NFL draft. And we do a lot of that as well. But I understand for some of you it's like, okay, Ron said this. We get it.

Ron is inconsistent in the way he communicates. But let me just, I want to hit on one point for maybe the 30th time. because I think, Mike, you referred me to a story that John Kime wrote on January 4th before the start against the Cowboys. And, you know, as if to say they're really high on Sam Howe, that seems to be not revisionist history, just history. Nobody's ever said that they haven't said nice things about Sam Howe. But a lot of the Sam Howe conversation is driven by a three to four day period in which he went from, Ron did, or Ron and others in the organization went from, choosing, making the choice not to start him against the Cowboys in the season finale in a totally meaningless game.

And then three days after he started him and he played okay, he played well, and they won the game, he slapped the QB1 label on him. And to many of us, and I think I can put myself into this category, and I think Tommy's in this category as well, it's just not real. Like the slapping of the QB1 label on Sam Howell, three to four days after the season, after he started the one game, a week and a half after, they weren't even sure he was ready to start a meaningless game against the Cowboys. like if they really were all in on Sam Howe and John Kime wrote that, you know, they liked a lot about Sam Howe.

They were concerned about different things, but they really liked him. They saw him as if not a future starter, at least as a backup. But even the thought of him at any point of being a future starter, the Dallas game in the season finale was the game to start him in. It should have been an obvious answer. And the fact that he had to be talked into it by Taylor Heineke, and then three days after the start, he slapped the QB1 label on him is why I think the conversation about Sam Howl isn't convincing. Not for me anyway. And then specific to the parsing of everything, because some of you have had discussions about that, look, here's my take on this. Ron has always spoken this Ron ease where he has been inconsistent

and if you don't like what he said, just wait a couple of days and he might say something totally opposite that pleases you more. He's always been that way. I mean, he, you know, it's always been the way he's communicated, but Tommy, it's my impression that the winging it like he did in Phoenix last week, and I think that was a winging it get-together, has increased. And for me, and I'm going to tell you this because I actually had this conversation with Sam 48 the other day,

I think that he is less engaged. And the more of this, you know, Chase Young one day it's about, well, we got to incent him like we did Duran Payne. Then the next day it's, we got to wait for ownership. And then the next day or the next week, it's, the injury is still a consistent. concern. I think we're seeing much more of this Ronnie's language and communication because Ron knows that Ron ain't going to be here next year. And this is the final year of coaching. And even though he's always been kind of a CEO coach since he got here more so than he was at Carolina, I think there's a chance that this is an indication all of this winging answers, which is one

of the reasons I'm interested in the conversation, that and the fact that it's April and there's nothing else going on. But I think he, I don't, I hate to use the phrase he's got one foot out the door. But I don't think with everything he's gone through here since he got here and it's been a shit show since he got here, he took a job in a dark organization to begin with and it's actually gotten darker since he's been here. And it's not because of his doing. I mean, we've had a pandemic. He had cancer. We've had all of the post stories that led to all of the investigations.

And he's got to deal with then, you know, a blundering other side of the building every couple of months. And part of me, I remember asking him this last year when I, or last year or whenever I had him on the radio show and we would record these interviews, I'd say, you and your wife have to be like, oh, my God, what did we get ourselves into? And he laughed. Like, yeah, there are. days we look at each other and we're like, oh my God, this is not what we thought it would be. And by the way, they should have thought it was going to be bad. I mean, anybody could have told him that. But it became bad times five.

And I guess I can't really blame him if he's got one foot out the door. But I think a lot of this conversation from Ron in recent weeks has indicated, and by the way, we'll get to the Sam 40A parsing out Ron Rivera's answers. I think he realizes that next year, this time next year, he'll be out of coaching more likely than not. And maybe he's okay with it just to get out of here. You know what? Let me just put a warning out to a lot of people who are listening, who are sensitive to what they hear, particularly when it comes to Sam How,

and don't like the analysis of what the coach has to say. I just want you to cover your ears because, you know, you're going to hear some stuff that might upset you, okay? You've had the chance to do that. You've been warned. Look, I think part of the problem here, you're totally right on the week before Dallas, that he had to be talked in to starting the quarterback,

and just like that, he's QB. part of the problem, and this will speak to the Sam 48 thing moving forward, is that I don't think Ron's a very good communicator. Totally agree with that. And you see, I think, I don't think this is his style of throwing the media off. I think this is who he is. Okay, this is not like he gets back there, and he said, boy, I really had them go and spin in its circles back there.

Don't pay, you know, behind the scenes, don't pay attention to anything I said. I was just doing that for them. No, no, no, no, no. I think this is him. Look, Taylor Heineke said his biggest problem with Rivera was communication. Oh, gosh. Okay? The way it was communicated to.

So my point is that, I mean, he's not a very good communicator. And he says stuff one day, and he says something else. And that's, I think he operates the same way behind the scenes. as he does out in public. So that's a problem for him. And, I mean, the last thing for a guy like this that he should do is speak more to the new coaching staff, because if you listen to Rod for 15 or 20 minutes.

Ownership. Ownership. You know, you're going to walk away saying, what is this guy talking about? What he says is important because it's not like Shanahan, Okay, putting up a media facade and operating differently behind the scenes. I think this is who he is.

Plus, let me just point out, and this gets, you know, in all the interviews with Ron Rivera by all the traditional media out there, I don't understand why this never comes up. The first guy he hired on the job, the first hire, was his longtime friend from Carolina, Ryan Vermillion, who got busted by the DEA for pedaling drugs. Right out of the gate. Well, it wasn't peddling drugs.

It was, it was prescription, legitimate prescriptions that were prescribed like out of state when you're not allowed to prescribe them out of state or something. He wasn't peddling drugs, Tom. It wasn't peddling weed or coke. No, he wasn't. Okay? I mean...

Do you know what? What? But the DEA came down on him. I know. For what? Writing prescription drugs out of state, please? Well, I forget all the details, but it wasn't you. The way you said it, it's like he was peddling, you know, he was peddling Molly.

So on your comment about him and his communication, I, I, I, I think, you know, what's funny is that what he gets credit for consistently from his former players and from coaches who have coached with him and coaches that he's competed with is that he's a really good leader. And he's a really good leader of that kind of an environment. Young men in a football locker room playing football. And that's been, you know, his strength according to everybody. And I think he does get some credit for, I mean, the Ryan Vermilion thing aside. I think he does get some credit for changing the culture of the locker room here.

I mean, I know some of these players weren't his players, but he chose to extend Terry. He chose and succeeded in extending John Allen and Duran Payne. And he's drafted some really good young players. I mean, they've got a pretty good roster and a pretty good young roster at that and a higher character roster in locker room than maybe they've had in the past. But I think... I would agree. I think what it is really is I think he's not a great communicator unless the audience maybe is just a little bit more willing to buy into everything.

I think like recently I've literally thought this guy is like he's a bit used car salesman but just doesn't have any of his ducks in a row. Like he says what he believes will sound good in that particular moment. moment in front of whomever he is speaking to. And he figures it out, in his own mind, he's figuring it out on the fly. You know, like the question about the Chase Young thing is the most interesting here recently. Because he's literally gone from, well, this is what we did with Duran. Well, no, you didn't. You actually picked up the fifth year option on Duran.

Because he actually said we didn't even pick up the fifth year option on Duran, which is another indication he's not totally engaged. Like last week he was talking about this battle between Sadiq Charles and Chris Paul forgot that he even has Andrew Norwell, you know, on the roster right now, penciled in as perhaps a starter, or maybe not. Or maybe he was saying something that is true that they've, you know, already discounted Norwell. But there's a lot of this that's adding up to me that he's not as engaged anymore. But the Chase Young thing, he can't get it right. One day it's Duran Payne. Look what happened when we, you know, when we made. Duran earn it. Maybe that's the way to get chased to do it. The next day it's, you know, look, we got this new ownership situation. We can't make that kind of a decision until the new owner's in place. Well, you've got until May 2nd. Will the new owner be in place by May 2nd? Oh, I don't know what day they're going to be. And then the other day in D.C. for the World War I Memorial, the salute to service thing, he said, you know, it's the injury. It's the knee. Like, he's, I'm not saying we're back to the days

in which he's quizzing Dwayne Haskins during a regular season game. Well, we were quizzing him to see. That's why we didn't call the timeouts. We were quizzing Dwayne to see if he'd know to call the timeouts. I mean, there's been a lot of that over the time he's been here. But I do think at the core, you're right. He's not, he's certainly not a communicator.

He's not a planned communicator. He doesn't have a planned pitch when he comes out there. and he's not great at winging it. Look, as a media member, I welcome what he does because he gives you a lot of material. His answers are wordy, and I think he actually tries to give writers what they're looking for, reporters what they're looking for when they ask a question buried in there somewhere. So as a media member, I mean, I think it's great, but look, I learned, from experience that, like, for example, when you're in a courtroom, when you're testifying,

there's only three answers. Yes, no, and why. And for every word that you give out, somebody can jump on it. Okay? And he gives out words like they're candy. I know, but he's not on trial. And part of his job as not only the coach. His words are open to analysis.

And he puts a lot out there. He does. He just does. And he puts a lot out there that he probably doesn't realize he said if he goes back and looks at it sometimes. I mean, maybe you just nailed it, as we've now spent 15 minutes on Ronnie's. But maybe you just nailed it because when you said this, I, nodded my head because I agree with you that I do think he tries to help out the media. Like he tries to give answers that he thinks will give them, you know, will make it easier

for them. But I think the problem is that the answers he gives, and one of the reasons they're long and wordy is he doesn't really have an idea of what the right answer is, and he's winging it. You know, when you're winging it, you always end up talking much more than if you really have a good idea of what the answer is. And I think we're getting more and more. I think we're getting more and more of that. And that's why I brought up the other day. And I don't think I had brought it up with you yet because you were on on Monday. And I brought it up with Sam Fortier, who I had on the show on Tuesday on the radio show.

And I just said, because even Sam said, well, what are you getting at? And I said, I guess I'm getting at the fact that it's increasing and it's becoming more. more conflicting and more confusing because maybe he's not as immersed and engaged in this gig anymore. And, you know, and I wouldn't, look, you're getting paid a lot of money. So your job is to win games. So get it together and go win some effing games. But really, when you consider what he's been through since he's gotten here,

I mean, this place is a total shit show. And it's become the biggest shit show of all time since he was hired, not because he was hired, but because of the timing. I mean, the post stories come out. The pandemic hits. The name's gone. He gets cancer. You know, he starts one in five that first year. Remember that?

And he's saying things that don't make any sense at the end of games, but he's in a market now that's not Charlotte. So he's got a media base and fans that are questioning him, a guy that he feels they should have felt lucky to have gotten because he took a team to a Super Bowl. And he knows what he's doing. Like there's been a lot of that. You know, the sensitivity to criticism from Ron has been there because he feels like, don't tell me, I know.

You know, what's this, that one saying he gives all the time, don't draw me a map if you haven't been there. I think that's it. He uses that one all the time. He's got all these, you know, things. But the truth is, like, I mean, there hasn't been one normal moment for him since he got here. And most of it's not his doing. I mean, it's just been the thing.

And now he's dealing with something he had to deal with in Carolina, which is, you know, ownership change. And, you know, a strict budget, we believe, with respect to this off season, the ability, you know, the inability not to really do maybe what they want to do. And so he's got to come up with answers. And by the way, he's not just the coach anymore either. He's the number one, he's been the face of the franchise since he came into it. Because the owner is a recluse. The co-owner, you know, wants to make herself and her family to be the victims

every time she's been, you know, speak every time she has the ability or has had the chance to speak publicly. It usually works out poorly for her. And so he's been the guy. And he's also got to try to coach a football team and build a roster and, you know, figure out a quarterback, which they haven't been able to figure out. Anyway, I don't know. You know what? They're checking out a little bit. I mean, this would be the time to do it with the arrival of Eric the enemy. Right. I mean, he can put all. put, you couldn't put Jack Del Rio out there week after week to do this talking, you know, because Jack, it doesn't clearly doesn't have a taste for it.

Jack is the perfect guy to put on this stand. He knows the three words you say, and not to go any further. Yes, he does. But, I mean, I would think that Eric Bianney, you know, as part of his springboard to something better, even if it's here as a head coach, it's going to want a more visible presence than your typical offensive coordinator. So this may all kind of connect somehow

and work out in a bizarre way that, you know, Ron doesn't have to do. Not that he does that much before, but maybe he has to do even less now because of Eric B. Enemy being in the building. I mean, he does have an associate head coach title. I don't, if Ron isn't doing the Monday, Wednesday, you know, Friday, you know, if he's not doing the pressers every day, what is he doing? Because he's clearly a delegating coach, a CEO coach. He's admitted as much. Del Rio handles the defense.

Scott Turner was handling the offense and now Eric Bienemy's been handed the offense. But I think to what you were starting to get at, this is another way for him. to not have, you know, sort of the associated pressure of, you know, day to day. Not that he was involved more, you know, with Scott Turner here, but he has handed over the offense to Eric B. Enemy. Look, he talked about it in Phoenix last week. Eric's in at 7 a.m. He's holding meetings. He's got his stuff going. You know, checked in with Jack. He's got him and his staff.

He's checking in with people. He's checking in with people before, I think, a year from now. checked out. That's what I think. Because really, right now, percent chance that Ron Rivera is the head coach of the Washington, whatever they are, I hope it's not the commanders, a year from now. Percent chance that he's not. 19 percent. 19? Yeah. So you think there's an 81 percent chance he will be the coach next year? No, no, no. No, no. The opposite. Oh, okay. Yeah, what percent let me ask it again. What percent chance do you think it is that Ron Rivera won't be the coach here next year? 81% is your answer. I was going to say 80%. So you went with the $1 higher on the Price's Right strategy.

So that if it's 82 or higher, you win. I was going to say 80%, because I really do think that, you know, he's going to have to, like the team. team's going to have to win, not nine games, they're going to have to win 10, 11, or 12, and at least one playoff game for new ownership to say, hmm, maybe we should keep this guy that has had just, you know, that just completed his fourth winning season in 13 years as a head coach. I mean, and by the way, his rambling and winging, it may not be. checked by a football locker room, but the new owners are going to know, what are you talking about as he's, you know, going through the Chase Young stuff? What do you? I mean, and this gets us to the Sam Fortier story. He did a sit down with Ron Rivera. And something Ron Rivera said, as we get more into Ron Rivera and Ron Rivera ease, it deals with his experience in Carolina.

with an ownership change and what he learned from it. And we will get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by my good friends at MyBooky. Go to mybooky.ag or MyBooky.com. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. I want to just mention about MyBooky compared to some of the other books that you may be using. Just compare the prices. just compare what you're paying on a loss compared to what you'd be paying on a loss at MyBookie.

My bookie's fair pricing is beyond, you know, money saving in the long term, especially for you guys that aren't betting, you know, just $10 a game or $20 a game. For you guys that are betting a couple hundred bucks a game or more, you know you want the best VIGs. You don't want to be paying minus 127 on a loss, which you have at a lot of these new places. particular. My bookie is like your normal book, like before we had all the blowup of legalized sports betting. You're going to pay minus 110 in some cases less than that. Now, if it's a key number,

you might pay minus 115. But the pricing, especially for you guys that bet a little bit larger, I mean, you know, if you're betting 50 bucks a game, ultimately, you know, if you're paying a couple bucks more on a loss, it's not going to add up to a big number. But if you're paying, you know, 20, 30, 40 bucks more on a loss at one place versus my bookie, it adds up. Because by the way, you're going to lose some of your bets. My bookie's got fair pricing. They've got fair point spreads. All of their prop bet numbers are right on.

And right now, if you use MyBooky, you can cash in and cash out quickly. You have to use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll allow you to wager your initial deposit amount one time and then cash out. It's perfect, as I mentioned during the NCAA tournament. It's perfect for Masters Weekend. And even though the tournament's underway, each day, you got plenty of prop bets, you got plenty of matchup opportunities. They've got everything you need to bet the Masters. Go to my bookie.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. So this Sam 48 column that you brought my attention to before the show started. Is a column, and I'll read from it here, because there is more Ron parsing here.

There's more Ronis. Sam writes, this time Ron Rivera wants to do a better job explaining himself. If the Washington commanders are indeed sold, he said last week one of his priorities will be to clearly and intricately detail to the new ownership group, the strategy behind the major decisions he and his staff have made over the past three years. In May of 2018, Jerry Richardson, a former NFL player, sold the Carolina Panthers to David Tepper, a hedge fund manager, with a reputation for being brash and hands-on. 19 months later, Tepper fired Rivera, and afterward, Rivera came to believe communication was a big part of the decision to let him go. By the way, Sam immediately

adds parenthetically. Rivera's team went 12 and 16 at that span. Oh, by the way. Ron says, quote, I don't think I really had an opportunity when the new group came in to sit down and say, this is where we are, this is what we're doing, this is why we've done it, and going forward, this is what we intend to do, Rivera said. You get a chance to really take a step back and look, and you say, God, it would have been important for Teper to know that. the Carolina owner. It would have been good for him to understand this. That, I think, is really, really important. I didn't do that. He was asked, right when I read this quote, Tommy, I thought, well, give us an example. You know, give us an example of, you know, what would have been

important for Teper to know. Asked to share an example of something he wishes he had explained better, Rivera demurred. He reiterated that he would have preferred more dialogue, even if he had, it might have been a disagreement about a scheme or specific players. So a couple things real quickly. When I'm reading the line where he says, you know, it would have been, hold on, where is it again, this is where we are, this is what we're doing. It's just, it's that drop from Venny Serrato that we used to play all the time. We know what we're doing.

We have a plan. We have a plan. Yeah. But the fact that he couldn't immediately, like, give an example is another, I think, this is a winging it answer. This is, hey, I got the answer as to what is different between TEPA and the new ownership here and what I should be doing. And this will be a good story. I should have communicated more with Tapper. And I'd maybe I'd still be the coach there.

So I'm going to do that more with the ownership group that comes in. I don't know, man. The communication so far, no offense to Ron, because he's been up against it. And I've already, you know, we went through that last segment, is his record. And, you know, and then beyond that, some of the personnel decisions he's made specifically at quarterback. And where they are at quarterback right now, the most important position. And this whole idea that they're building a roster for the first time, which is untrue to begin with. I think if he starts winging it and starts trying to BS new ownership and he communicates more,

it may work out worse for him than it did in Carolina. I would agree. If you're a new ownership group, you've been planning for a year or so, at least in your mind, what you want to do in terms of a football coach, probably. You probably got your fantasy list. You probably have your reality list. But by the time Ron Rivera gets to sit down and talk to a new owner, he's going to have to be so convincing because he's going to have to change someone's mind.

That new owner isn't coming in with an open mind. They have an idea what they want to do. They have a, like Vinnie Charado, they have a plan. and, you know, I just don't think Ron Rivera is probably likely going to be part of that plan, so he'll have to convince them. I mean, by saying, I need to have a better conversation with the new owner means I need to sell myself to the new owner.

And I just think by then it's too late. I think you're right. I think the only way, I mean, these are people not looking to buy the car on the lot. They just got hustled into the lot to look at it. Now he's got to convince him why they're there. You didn't know this when you were walking down the street, but you need a new car. And I got the one for you,

and they have no interest in looking at a new car. And so this is going to be so hard for him to pitch. In fact, Tommy, I would say it's impossible for him to pitch. And the only way that he can pitch himself for a fifth year is to prove it on the first. field. He's got to hand over the results. He's got to be able to say, look, the first three years we were doing this and we missed on that, but it really came together. We were lucky. We drafted Sam in the fifth round. We really liked him. And, you know, we added Terry and we had built up

the receiving core. And, you know, we had to make some changes to the offensive line because we didn't want to match the sheriff offer. But you could see it all came together here in year four. I mean, we were, you know, we were 10, 6, and 1. And, you know, we were within a, We were a field goal away from going to the NFC championship game, and we think we can get there next year or further. It's got to be that. That's the only way. The only pitch he's got is a really good record and at least a playoff win next year.

I don't think 9 and 8 in a first-round playoff loss and a 7-verses two first-round game is going to do it. I don't. I don't think so either. I think you're looking at an old. over 10, like you said, pretty much. I think the way you said it is really the kind of result you're going to have to make, you're going to need to make your case. Yeah, to convince somebody to change their mind and buy him for another year.

Nine and eight, and a playoff loss is not going to do it. He's going to have to sit down and say, no, you don't want to hire Jim Harbaugh. You want to hire me. Right. or maybe John Harbaugh. Who knows? I think, you know, we're getting at something here, too, because we really haven't defined in our own, on this podcast,

what we think Ron needs to do to keep, to be back for the fifth and final year of his contract, which, by the way, you know, you're not going to bring him back for his fifth. If you're not going to bring him back for the fifth year of his contract, Let me rephrase. If you're thinking about bringing him back for the fifth year of his contract because they did so well next year, you're probably going to need to give him an extension of some sort. Yes, he will. Of some sort.

So. Yeah, you can't have him walk in the plank in his last year. He's got to have something that the locker room knows, well, this coach, you know, the locker room can't say, why don't have to listen to this guy. He won't be here next year. That's always the issue. So let's define it. Here's how Ron Rivera coaches Washington in 2024.

They win 10-plus games and a playoff game, and they have an answer at quarterback. Like it's really clear at the end of the year that they have a good team, but more importantly, a quarterback on the rise that looks like a franchise quarterback. And you could say, well, they're not going to get to 10 wins and win a playoff game without that piece of it. No, probably not. But you could have a guy that's just okay

and you're able to win one playoff game in 10 games with a last-place schedule, if it turns out to be a true last-place schedule. But I think they've got to win a playoff game and the quarterback has to be like obviously ascending into something that you can have for the next 10 years. If it's Chikobi Bresset, at least the next five years.

If they turn them into Gino Smith. Yeah. I think you have to win. You have to do something that this fan base hasn't seen in a long time, which is win more than 10 games. When's the last time they've done that? It was 91? 91.

Okay. And win a playoff game. And the last time they did that was 2005, right? Yeah, the 2005 season, right? Right. We will be coming up on 18 years since they've won a playoff team. You have to do something that the fan base stuns the fan base. Right.

I think you have to do both of those things. Yeah. What does Jason Wright have to do to keep his job? Well, he's working on it, buddy, isn't he? He's telling everybody. He's meeting with everybody. He's telling reporters about what a great job he's done and how the sale is going to go forward.

He's doing it. He is doing it. All right. Let's finish up with a few things, including the Wizards tanking, but also the news that came yesterday that Wes Unselt Jr. will be back as the head coach. We've got some other things to get to as well. We'll do all of that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Great place to watch the Masters. Are you going to be down at Shelly's today and tomorrow, and maybe the weekend watching golf? I know you love it so much. Well, you know something? This is the thing about Shelly's. They put out all kinds of sports,

so they'll be putting on that golf, even though yours truly, who likes to think of himself as the mayor of Shelly's, you know, is not a particular golf officinado, you know, who might sit down at the bar and say to the bartender, what the F is this crap that you got on there? I remember last year, when I went to Spokane to get my granddaughter,

I almost got thrown out of the hotel bar because, you know, they had golf on, and I was bishing about it. Why are you a shitster in that situation? What does it matter to you if there are a bunch of dudes at the bar watching golf? It's not like you want to watch anything. Just don't pay attention to it. There was nobody watching golf. There was nobody watching golf except the bartender.

Well, this wasn't the thing at the airport where you got into it with the bartender at the airport. Oh, oh, that was it. Okay, my fault. I remember that. Okay. That was it. Okay. So, yeah, you know what?

Shelly's is a great place to watch golf. You know what? It's a great place to people watch besides running into, Yours truly from time to time. It attracts a number of big names. Like a lot of NBA players who come through town, you know, they're cigar guys. They'll stop at Shelley's and have a smoke after the game. I know that Paul Pierce used to be a big fan and used to go to Shelley's a lot when he was playing with the Wizards.

another guy like Dennis Rodman, when his daughter was playing for the women's soccer team here last year, Dennis Rodman was a regular at Shelly's. It's a real good place. Yeah. It attracts, you know, you don't know country Western duo big and small or big and tall or what's their name? I don't know. I'm not a country music. What is it? Big and rich.

Big and rich. I don't know. Okay. Yeah. One of those guys used to. come to shell. He's all the time after they did a concert at Capital One. So there's a good chance you're going to run into somebody. Look, I've had my picture taken with Robert Patrick, who was T-1000 in Terminator 2. You know, he was Dave, the guy who owned the sporting goods store in the Sopranos.

And he always comes every May because he does the Rolling Thunder. Oh, right. You've told me about that. Yeah. Right. So there's a good chance Arnold used to be a regular there. So besides, you know, mingling with the regular folks, there's a good chance you're going to see someone of some star quality at Shelly. Nice. Shelly's backroom, 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. Very good. That's a good spot for Shelly's right there. Really solid spot for Bob and the boys down at Shelly.

I had They got no complaints buddy No complaints I had I bring my A game for Shelly I had somebody

send this to me the other day And I was saving it for today When you were back on the show So I think they I think this is done a lot With a lot of different shows You know Which is the March Madness

Style bracket And in the case of what My friend sent me the other day it was an office bracket. So it had, you know, 64 episodes seated one through eight in each region. And then on the office.com or NBC peacock or whatever.com, they had people vote. And they, you know, they advanced each episode through brackets until finally there was a champion crowned the other night. And the first thing I noticed when my buddy said,

sent me the final is they set up the bracket all wrong. Whoever did this didn't know how to set up a bracket. They had, yes, they had the one seed playing the eight seed. All right. So I'll give you an example, Tommy. Dinner party was a one seed. I mean, I would have, you know, dinner party to me is one of the greatest sitcom episodes of any sitcom in the history of situation comedy.

And it was a one seed and it was matched against the golden ticket. episode, which was the 8 seed. But then the scheduled second round game was against the number two seed versus the number seven seed. So it faced Niagara, which was the Jim Pam wedding episodes. It was the one versus the two seed in the second round. I mean, anybody that knows how to set up a bracket, you go 1-8 and then you play the winner of the 4-5 game. By the way, it's not 64 episodes. It would be 32, eight seeds times four. So, you know, the one seed wins and it plays the four seed, and then on the other side of the bracket, the two seed plays the three seed. But that's not the way they set it up. That was the first thing I noticed. So NBC or whomever did this didn't know how to set up an actual

bracket. So you had one seeds facing two seeds in the second round. Now, I will give you the top four seeds. All right. Dinner party, casino night, the injury, and stress relief. Is there an episode

that you think should have been seeded one that wasn't? Michael dates Pam's mom. Michael dates Pam's mom. What was the name of that episode? Where she finds out

that Michael's dating Pam's, his mom. And let's face it, the threat level midnight was also great as well. But Michael dating Pam's mom might be my favorite. I forget the name of that episode, and I'm looking for it to see if it'll jar my memory. Because remember, that follows them getting back from the wedding and the honeymoon. Because Michael hooks up with Pam's mom at the wedding.

So it comes several episodes after the wedding episode, which was, than Niagara. He says at one point, if I saw it the other day, and when she's saying, I don't want you to date my mom and they're arguing, and he says, well, I'm going to date her harder. Right, right, right. I'm going to date her harder. And she says, what does that mean? And he says something like, I think you know what it means. By the way, she was awesome in that episode. Pam was so good as the, as totally offer rocker angry,

which you, which was a total change in character. And she was great in that. I'm looking to see what that episode was the lover. It's called the lover. Yeah, the lover. Let me see if it was, if it even made the top 32.

It didn't. It didn't make the top 32. So you already, I'm with you. I like that episode a lot. I think that's a really good episode. Let me just give you... It's the negotiation in there?

The negotiation, of course, is in there. Okay. It's got to be. That whole scene at the negotiation table is just phenomenal. When she tells him to ask for 18%, so she can give him 15%, he can't figure the whole thing out. Right. And Toby writes, Toby says, I'm just taking notes for the deposition.

For the deposition. And the deposition, by the way, is one of the great all-time episodes. Yeah, the negotiation was a six-seed. The deposition was a seven-seed. That's an underseated episode. Anyway, let me cut to the chase here because not everybody's following along. So the final four, stress relief, you know, when they nearly kill Stanley, the dinner party, the Dundees, and threat-level midnight. Tommy, I'm not a big fan of it.

of threat level midnight. I think it's okay. I am. I think it's okay, but I don't think it's a great episode. Um, the, uh, like I'm looking at, uh, what about, what, what about the episode when Holly thought when she first came there? Yeah. And she thought Kevin was mentally challenged. That's, that's hysterical. That's, that's the episode when Toby's leaving. Um, yes, you know, uh, goodbye toby or something. I, I forget what the actual, uh, episode is called. I'm looking for it to see if it made it. That's a great episode too. It doesn't look like it made the top 32. Really? Because I'm looking at a list put together by some website and it's ranked ninth among

the top 25, good by Toby. Oh, it's such a great episode. I mean, when he's giving the final review of Toby, he's got the gift with the, with the rock that says, um, you know, good riddance or whatever it says on the rock, and that's the gift. And Holly walks in right as he's about to give the review, and he goes, oh, you don't need to be here. And she says, no, this is precisely my job. I have to be here. And then, like, the first question, he's like something like, what gives you the right? Something like that.

That's his first question. And then she, like, pushes the actual HR binder. And then Pam walks in, and Pam goes. Oh, Michael, when he, when he's, when Toby opens the gift. And then Michael screams about, I didn't do this. And Dwight says, yes, you did. And so then Pam says, and he goes, well, that was just a psych gift. What I really was going to give you as a gift.

And Pam goes, your watch. And he ends up handy, Toby, his watch. That is such a good episode. It's a great episode. In fact, but anyway, this is boring some people. So the final four, threat level midnight would not have been in my final four. The injury probably would have been in the final four. I mean, the George Foreman Grill, you know, foot injury is one of the funniest episodes of any sitcom of all time.

That's way up there. You know, some of the emotional episodes like, you know, the finale or, you know, when Michael's final episode is so great. Anyway, dinner party versus the Dundies was the final, and dinner party won. It almost always wins any of these things. Yes, it should, as well as should. It absolutely should. That said, and this is a whole other argument for another day that we can do. What?

Because, you know, Seinfeld reruns are still pretty live and active on TV. Yes. I'm more convinced than ever that Seinfeld is a better show than the office. think you might be right about that because i've been signfeld's on all the time in fact it's on the comedy channel usually you know before the office they're really close and they're really different but no doubt i mean they're the top two for me yeah i don't care what order you put him in there there are certain episodes of of of of of signfeld that i can't watch enough you know um the contest The parking garage is one of my all-time favorite episodes.

Soup Nazi. I mean, there are certain episodes. Some of the episodes were Jerry Stiller is a big part of the episode or some of my favorite episodes. I don't know if there's ever been a better, you know, sort of ensemble character that wasn't, you know, the true one of the top two or three leads ever. But, yeah, I'm with you. I can go either way. It's just that I think I've seen the off. more than I've seen Seinfeld in terms of all the episodes.

All right, I wanted to get to real quickly to finish up the show. First of all, how bad are the Nats? Jesus. How did they believe Kyle Finnegan in the game the other night to give up five runs and three home runs? What was Dave Martinez trying to prove? I don't know. I don't know when he was trying to prove. Okay.

But they can't score runs. They can't stop. And, you know, and they can't. can't really pitch except for, you know, McKenzie Gore, who had a very good outing. And they've got a couple of real strong bullpen relievers. They've got a couple of strong relievers. Kyle Finnegan just doesn't happen to be one of them right now. And there's no depth.

There's nobody to go to. The young players that they're hoping that they'll be able to go to, you know, are all too far away to bring up. Right. You know, maybe Jackson Rutledge, their young pitcher who's going to be in Harrisburg this year. You know, if he's outstanding, maybe he's a call up at some point. Remember, they lost Kate Cavali for the season to Tommy John surgery. Yeah, so, yeah, they're going to be bad.

You know, they might win more than 55 games, which if they won last year, but there'll be a lot less people watching them. All right, let's finish up with this. The Wizards lost again last night. that isn't really the issue here. They're doing a really good job, in my opinion, of tanking here down the stretch. I mean, nobody's playing for them. Their best five, six, seven players are sitting.

I mean, I was reading late last night. I actually, with my new schedule, I get to stay up later. I watched the Lakers and Clippers last night all the way to the final. I'm sure you're excited about that. LeBron was incredible. The Clippers won. LeBron was awesome. He had 30 points in the second half.

he looked great. I don't think the Lakers can get to the NBA finals, but man, they're going to be difficult for anybody to take out. And they could be like in a 27 or a 1-8 first round series. I'd hate to see them. I'd hate to see Golden State, too. But anyway, poor Zingis, by the way, was out for, I think, his fourth straight game with an illness not related to COVID.

So should we say a quick prayer and hope that, Chris Stops is okay. I mean, this is what they should be doing. Anybody that thinks, and I, Chris Miller, who I love, I love Chris, he's a friend of mine, and he went on a rampage. You should have been embarrassed. It's not what he meant. It's not what he meant.

He meant that. It doesn't matter. It does. You don't get to preach. You don't get to preach to this fan base about anything. Zero. Okay, that's different. There's no preaching to this fan base.

That's actually fair. They don't deserve it. That's actually, the fan base has been brutalized long enough. You don't need to be lectured by anybody. So I understand that. But what he was saying is, you don't, like people when they think about tanking don't think about how it happens. It doesn't happen with players going out there and not trying.

They're playing for their own, you know, livelihoods. You're not going to get an end. NFL team at the end of the year to put a backup quarterback out there to tank the game and then tell him to start throwing interceptions. The tanking happens in the decisions on who you play and don't play. And when you don't play your top six to seven players, the chances are you're not going to win. And that is the organization's intent. Doesn't matter that they've actually actually they've had a couple of really good performances in the last couple of games from their first round draft choice, who was basically in the G League for much of the year, Jordan Davis.

I mean, Johnny Davis, excuse me, Jordan. Johnny David. Jordan Goodwin's played really well for them all year. But Johnny Davis has actually played pretty well. This is like the best case. It's like they're losing, but they're finding out, hey, Johnny Davis can play a little bit and he's getting some confidence. I know that, but here, here's the thing. Okay.

Somebody has to score points, okay? I mean, somebody has to have the point. They have to go to somebody. But Johnny Davis isn't out there trying to lose. No, he's not going out there trying to lose, but somebody has to get the ball and score. And so, you know, I mean, I'd be very suspect of April points when your team is out of contention. Well. That's a very suspect number.

Okay, the suspect number is one thing. The fact that he's shown any sort of life is a real thing. And by the way, what it can do for him. You don't have to tell him that his April 20-point game followed, you know, following an 18-point game, yeah, it doesn't really count because these numbers are all suspect. You build it up and you're like, dude, we knew you could do it. Have a good off-season. We'll see you back next year.

But anyway, to the wizard. So they're doing the right thing. Wait, wait, one more thing. Wait, I want to impress you here for a minute. Okay. My new favorite wizard is Jay Huff. Good. You know, the Big 7-1 Virginia Center.

Yes. He can play a little bit. Did you see he won defensive player of the year in the C-League? In the G-League? In the G-League? I didn't know that. Yes, he did. Okay.

Well, they could certainly use... For a team that needs defense with a defensive guru as their head coach, they could use a defensive player. Interesting, Tommy, because that's what I was going to get to here. The report that Wes Unsell Jr. is coming back. And I didn't expect him to get fired, by the way. I mean, they just, they don't fire people. Ted doesn't fire people until literally, like, you know,

five years after he should have fired him is when they fire people. But Wes Unsell Jr. is not doing a great job. But at the same time, I don't know that he's doing a terrible job, and I don't know what the players think of him. But this team underperform this year. This team had more talent than the results suggested. But I'll also point out that you just call them the defensive guru. Why are you breathing so heavily right now?

I'm excited because we're talking about the Wizards. Good God. Can you calm down there? He was brought in, you know, as a defensive kind of guru. And they're not a good defensive team. And they haven't been a good defensive team for his first two years. There's been injuries. They've lost players.

But you know what? They had Porzingas for a lot longer than they thought he'd have him. They thought they'd have him this year. They had Kuzma healthy for a big portion of the year. Beal wasn't. I don't know if Wes Jr. can coach or not coach. I do know this. The results in his first two.

years aren't very good. And they're not very good in the area in which we were sort of told this is his expertise. This is what he did in Denver so well. Get ready for some lockdown defense. No. That's not who they are. His team was 23rd last year in team defense. I think they're 25th this year. I think they're 20. I thought they were 22nd this year or 21st this year. But whatever, it's in the 20s, both years. Yeah. Not good. Do you think that they're going to announce his coming back tomorrow night during fan appreciation night? Is tomorrow night fan appreciation night? Are you being serious?

Yes, it is. Really? Yes, it is. Fan appreciation night. You know, if you really appreciated the fans, you'd let them in for free for one night. Like Georgetown did. Really? Just let them in for free. The thing is, Tommy, they don't draw poorly. I mean

They're last They're last in the league And they have their capacity No, they're not last in the league In total, but they're last in the league in capacity In percentage of capacity? Is that true?

84%. Oh, hold on. Then I'm wrong. I thought that they weren't doing that Porta League relative to their overall record. Where do you see that? Oh, here it is.

2022, 3. So they are, yeah, they're 21st in overall home attendance, averaging 17,301 fans a game. By the way, that's a lot. Like Georgetown wasn't drawing like 1,500. And so they had to give you a way to get in if you just flashed any sort of ID you got in for free. The Wizards don't have to do that, drawing 17,000 a night. The percentage of capacity. Yeah, it's not good.

You're right. It's dead last in the league. Yeah, yeah. Because they've got a, you know, they've got a big capacity. So, but still, like the 21st, the overall, they're going to draw, you know, ultimately like 700,000 fans this year or over 700,000 fans for that product. It's, you know, I'm looking at NBA attendances in particular. The NBA draws well.

You know, they do a pretty good job. In terms of the teams that pretty much sell out, there are, you know, there are 9 to 10 teams, more than that. They're like 12 to 13 teams that pretty much sell out every night. Look, Weston-Selt Jr. is coming back, like you said, because Ted doesn't fire anybody because I think they owe him $14 million on his contract. What was his deal? And I thought it was six. $7 million a year, but it's never been actually confirmed.

I mean, that's what Scott Brooks got. Yeah. With $7 million a year. Yeah, he got $7 million for five years. Brooks did. Right. So it was never actually confirmed what West got, but it's a rough year for Ted Leones. I mean, no Wizards playoff games, no Capitals playoff games, which is a real killer.

Yeah. Because the owners in the NHL, that's straight cash, homie. That's 100% of what they get. That money goes right to Ace Rothstein skim room. It does. That's where that money goes. Absolutely. I mean, look, we learned this a while back.

It's like, you know, before kind of the reworking of the collective bargaining agreement, whatever year that was, you pretty much had half the teams in the league at break even or losing money. And the key was to make money was to get to the postseason. and have at least three home playoff games, two to three home playoff games. And so he was swimming in profits when Randy Whitman and Scott Brooks for three out of four years, not only took them to the playoffs, but they won a series each year. And then lost in seven games in the second round of the Celtics, and six in the other two, I think.

But they still have to share that money in the NBA. In the NHL, 100% the owner. Yeah. even in the playoffs. Right. I mean, in the playoffs. So the NHL money, not making the playoffs, is killing. It's a rough year for Ted.

Plus, the baseball team he wants to buy is frozen because of the matching deal. And not good to be Ted these days. No, it's not. Yeah, no. I talked about that either yesterday or the day before. It's going to be weird. You know, it's been eight straight years, and it's pretty much been, you know, for a decade and a half of the caps making the playoffs every year for the most part.

And that's been, you know, it's, by the way, for us, it's always given us a solid week, at least a week, many times only a week of additional content. But it's like that's the time of year when it's like people are paying attention to hockey because you're kind of jumping on the bandwagon hoping for a ride, which only came one time. All right, do you have anything else? Nothing else for you, boss. tomorrow and I don't know what we have lined up for tomorrow. I'll figure something out between now and tomorrow. Have a good day. You always do. Part of the problem is she is the mother of a close

friend of mine. Oh. More than a friend. A co-worker. Oh, gossip. Who is it? Who is it? Who is it, Michael? Who? No, no, no, no. No.