The Kevin Sheehan Show - Rivera's Crush On Heinicke

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on the appearance that Ron Rivera has a major crush on Taylor Heinicke. They talked a ton more about Washington Football including a look ahead to Sunday's showdown with the Cowboys. Kevin had an issue with the end of the Wizards' game last night and Thom is thrilled that his boyhood hero Gil Hodges is headed into the Hall of Fame. Also, 80 years ago today during a Redskins-Eagles game, the public address announcer at Griffith Stadium gave the 27,000+ in attendance their first clue that something terrible had happened....they just didn't know exactly what.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Sports Fix 2.0 today on a Tuesday gives Tommy a chance to weigh in on the win over the Raiders for the first time. If you missed my recap of the game, just go to yesterday's show. Title Tommy, what happens in Vegas dot, dot, dot.

for those of you that don't know the rest of it, you haven't been to Vegas. But Tommy's going to weigh in. We're going to do all of our Washington football team stuff here in the opening segment. Then I do want to get to last night's Buffalo New England game and the Wizards game. We'll do that in segment two, and then I have no idea what we're going to talk about in segment three. Maybe we'll talk about the fact that I'm eating baby carrots right now. You seem to be fascinated with that. Why?

Well, I mean, because that's very healthy. I know this because I eat baby carrots from time to time for a snack when I'm on my A game when it comes to taking care of myself. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm just snacking on baby carrots right now. I like carrots. I loved cooked carrots. I love cooked carrots in stews, you know, especially beef stews. That just adds great flavor, as do, you know, things like onions and celery, etc.

But yeah, I've always liked baby carrots. It's a nice little snack food when you're trying to do well. I had that, a yogurt and a granola bar after the radio show this morning because I didn't eat anything before the radio show. So that's not a bad day. You know, it's not something I would brag about that whole trifecta. Why? Too much sugar in the granola bar?

It's just a little bit embarrassing. Well, do you want me to say that I also have a box of pop tarts here? in the studio. Yeah. There you go. Okay. Or I've got some magic spoon cereals sitting here, which are always great to snack on. Which is 100% true.

Magic spoon cereals are great little snack items. Okay. Mr. You join me on Tuesday, and we don't get to get your reaction until Tuesday to the four-game winning streak. And a massive game Sunday against the Kemp. Cowboys. Go ahead. It is your stage. Take it. You know, the explanations for the defense, I mean, the turnaround by this defense has just

been remarkable. And they played a team on Sunday that exploded against the Cowboys the week before, you know? And they held them in check. They made them pretty much. much irrelevant defensively. And I don't have a particular explanation. I know they're playing the three safeties now with the Landon Collins move. But other than that, you know, it's interesting. This is interesting. Last week, Jack Del Rio was asked about the turnaround.

And he was asked about what was the major factor in the defense? turn around since the by week. And he said, we didn't fracture when it was very adverse time earlier in the season. I thought we continued to stay together, continue to work hard,

and that's what gives you a chance. Now, I have a theory about this. Okay. They didn't fracture, I think, in part because there's no more locker room access.

I thought you were going to go down to Chase Young path. No, no, no, no, that's too simple. Okay. No, no, no. This one requires a little bit more thought. That's a lot for you. There's no post-game through all that stretch when they were playing poorly. Yeah.

There were no reporters in the locker room after the game. No potential for a Josh Norman-like explosion, you know, post-game, you know, where players, emotions are still pretty raw, especially if they're on a losing streak and embarrassing themselves like this defense had been. There's no polling reporters aside by players and saying, you know, this guy's doing this, this guy's doing that. There was no opportunity for finger-pointing because there's no access anymore. If you want to talk to a player, you have to ask the team, and they bring the player to you.

So then the team knows who you're talking to. You know, there's no anonymity involved in finger-pointing anymore. And I know this is kind of like saying, well, when people blame the media, maybe they're right, and I'm cutting my own throat here. But I think this has something to do with it. I mean, a huge amount, no. But I think a small amount is that when they were going through that rough stretch, there was no opportunity for post-game finger-pointing and tirades in the locker room

that tend to start tearing teams apart, and during a week as well. So the COVID restrictions, I think, had contributed to this team staying together instead of fracturing. Not the major factor. I think the coaching staff is probably the major factor in that. but I think it contributed to it. What do you think you would have gotten at 2 and 6 from some of the players? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know what I would have. How can I say because it didn't happen? But I've been in it. I mean, the opportunity for a player to stand in front of his locker surrounded by reporters and say, hey, don't blame me. We're doing the, you know, don't blame the secondary. It's a defensive line that's not getting the rush. This happens.

It happened, you know. Or the player like DJ Sweringer going off on the coaches or the game plan. None of that happened. Yeah, I mean. And it used to happen all the time here. I think the probability is obviously higher because there's more access, more players talking, rather than a player or two in addition to the coaches and the quarterback being brought to a podium. And by the way, a Zoom podium, each.

week. So I get that. I, okay. I mean, you know, there's no chance that you're not right with respect to there was more of a chance that somebody could have said something that was controversial had there been more access. That's, that's obvious. Whether or not they would have, we don't, we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. And instead, I'm not saying it's the major factor. Okay, I'm not going on a lemon saying that, but I think it's helped. And this is not a good thing if you're in the media. And if you're in the media and cheering for the team, I guess it is a good thing.

But if you're in the media, if you're a reporter and you're doing your job, this is not good news. Well, I mean... This feeds into the notion that the media is to blame, where there's... They're not to blame. They're just a conduit for a lot, you know, frustrations that are aired. But if there's no conduit for frustrations to be aired, they stay quiet. Right. I want to make sure that those people that always, and most people who are highly intelligent, don't do this. And I think we have a lot of highly intelligent people that listen to this podcast. So this is not for you. But for those that their default is,

to blame the media for, you know, Snyder's record or the team's record or whatever. It's absurd. But I want to make one thing clear. Tommy is right that there is increased probability that the access might produce more than what you get in a, you know, in a two and six situation. But you only get that if the player actually says it. So it's not the media that's saying it for them. It's the player saying it. Now, the lack of access by the media may have, let's turn it around.

What have they missed out on from a positive standpoint without the media being? How about more promotion for a team that's needed a lot of promotion in the last couple of years? How about better, you know, some really nice stories that could have been written on some players that could have helped players with various things. They were working on charities, et cetera. there are benefits to the media having more access for the team and for the players as well. I know, but if a PR department is doing their job and they control the access in this case, then they're getting those stories out.

I mean, the story, again, like the old saying is, what you want to get in the paper is advertising, what you want to keep out as news. So if there's good positive stories out there, it's incumbent on the, on the PR department to poll reporters inside and say, hey, this is a good story. You should get on this. You know, it's interesting about this. So last night after the Monday night game, and we were going to wait on the Monday night game, but I'm just going to bring it up now because it applies to the conversation we're having.

Two Bill's players, Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde, were part of the player, you know, availability in the post-game presser. after their loss last night in some of the craziest weather conditions you'll ever see in terms of the wind, et cetera. And there's a reporter for a radio station or a TV station. I'm not exactly sure. Jerry Sullivan, he's a columnist, I think, for, well, used to be a columnist in Buffalo paper. He's been there forever. Okay, well, they labeled him W-I-V-B reporter.

So I just figured that that was TV radio. Maybe he works for the radio station. Okay. So he asked after a 14 to 10 bills lost to the Patriots, where the Patriots, if you guys didn't know this, I'm sure you know it by now. The Patriots threw the ball three times in the football game. Matt Jones threw the ball three times. The one time in the first half, he had one pass attempt in the first half,

is the lowest since Elias started to keep these numbers since 1978. He was two of three for 19 yards in the game, all because of the wind, and they ran the ball 46 times for 222 yards, and the Patriots won the game last night, 14 to 10. Anyway, Jordan Poyer and Micah Pied, Micahide, Micahide, excuse me, not Jordan, not Jordan Hoyer and Micah Pied, but Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde were asked by this dude Jerry Sullivan the following question. question. Are you guys, is it embarrassing to lose against a run heavy approach not utilized in decades? Both players got upset with the notion that the question was asked in the way that it was and they felt like it was disrespectful. Poir said seriously and then Hyde said, you know, this feels like disrespect. It's all about respect. I come here every single week. I answer your questions truthfully and honestly. I appreciate you guys, but don't do that. Just don't do that. Sullivan

tweeted out afterwards, Micah Hyde acts like he's doing the media a favor by coming out and answering questions after games. That's the problem with the current access during COVID. The media can't be in the locker room asking tough questions. Most players get to hide while leaders speak for the team. Boy, there is tone and presentation to questions, you know. Yes, there is. There's an art to it. There's an art to it. You know, a good friend of mine, the late great Joe Strauss, who used to cover baseball for the Baltimore Sun, then became a columnist in St. Louis with the Post-Dispatch. He was known for being able to couch a question. in the manager's office under the most difficult circumstances.

So it didn't seem like the manager was having to swallow a glass of razor. Right. Yeah, there's definitely an art. There really is an art to it. And embarrassment is not the kind of word you want to put in the question. No. Look, Jerry Sullivan has been there forever. He would, he's before the Jim Kelly days, he's been around.

and he'll be there probably after these guys are gone. And he's right from the media point of view in that you're not getting the full, and from certain fans' point of view, you're not getting the full picture of what's going on with the team with the limited access. But there's a lot of fans who say, I don't want to the full picture. I just want to hear the music. I don't care about the back story. Just play the song. It's so funny because as a fan, even before I became a media member,

I always loved reading what players and coaches, and I always loved reading especially what coaches said or hearing what coaches said after games. I thought there was so much insight that could be gained by, you know, the fan. But anyway, that question sounds to me like this guy, because you said he's been there forever, is a fan that was really frustrated after the game. And is like, are you kidding me? This dude threw the ball three times and you guys lost the GD game? Because there's an easy way to say, have you ever been in a game like this?

What is your reaction to the Patriots throwing the ball three times and running it 46? six times because really what you just, because they may have said, you know what, it's insulting that we got beat by a team that threw the ball only three times. You know, you may have gotten the answer you were looking for. Embarrassed. Jerry, I know Jerry a little bit. He's not a fan. I just think he just thinks like he's reached a level of status in that city where he can pretty much ask any question he wants. Yeah. You know, but I mean, frustration maybe would have been a better word to use instead of embarrassment? I mean, it's a loaded word.

I mean, if you're asking somebody embarrassed, you're telling them they should be embarrassed. Exactly. By asking them. Well, I think the same comes from using the word frustrated. I think it's one of those where you just say, you know, obviously nobody's ever been in a game like this where the other team just threw the ball three times and won the game, just wanted to get your reaction to that, you know, kind of a thing. Because they might end up giving you what you want in that situation.

But using embarrassed is really you're going to get nine times out of 10 from especially veteran players. You're going to get that kind of reaction. Now, back to our team here for a moment. Because, okay, you wait in on the access thing and the Del Rio thing and the fracturing thing. I'd like to think that it's more about a really good staff who is connected to their team and has some leaders in that locker room that totally believe and are kind of preaching that message. And I also, before I get your thoughts on the actual game and the team in Taylor Heineke, because I know you've written about Taylor Heineke for the paper today.

I wanted to read this quote to you from Ron Rivera's Presser yesterday. because I mentioned to you last week, I think I mentioned to you last week, it may have been to someone else that I had on the show. But what I've noticed about Ron is Ron, in the face of real tremendous adversity at 2 and 6, 2 and 5, etc. Did take a lot of the blame. And what I've noticed here during this four game win streak is he really just credits everybody else. Did we have that conversation or did I have that conversation?

or did I have that conversation with someone else? Well, I think we've had, you and I had that conversation a little bit the last time, because I also extended it to point out that Taylor Heineke does the same thing as well. Exactly. And we both agree that that is a, that's the mark of somebody who, you know, has real leadership abilities. And by the way, it's pretty comfortable with themselves. But he had another one of these situations yesterday. He was asked about how, you know, the team's been dealing with the injuries and how they've overcome these injuries. And he said, quote, I think part of it has been the depth. We've been very fortunate. Our personnel department has done

an excellent job for us. Like I said last year, we did some good things. We were able to build upon it this year. That's been good, I think. And then you've got to give credit to the positional coaching. I think the coaches have done a really good job in preparation. They've had good depth, and we've had players that have been able to have been plugged in and have them play because they've been ready to play. I think a little of it is philosophy, the way that we went through training camp. We try to make sure everybody gets an opportunity to rotate through, and they're either playing with the first group or the second group. They're not always, if they're a third string player or whatever, they're never not getting the opportunity to work with the first or second group.

And I think that gives us a chance to do some better evaluations. I think it's also the way the players are rallying around each other. I think that's also been very helpful. Guys, I know you guys, I know you guys got the example a couple of weeks ago when Keith Ishmael, the center, had to go in and play. He talked about how the guys around him just helped pick him up. That's important. And I think that's, again, as I said, that's a credit to, you know, the players and what our personnel department's doing. It's a credit to what the coaches have been doing. And then it's a credit to the players themselves. And then he adds, I will say this too. If you look at what the coordinators are doing, I think the coordinators are playing to our strengths as well. So the play calling,

has been conducive to us having success. My God, I mean, he gave every single person in that locker room, except for the trainers who are still probably in DEA custody. He's given, he gave every single person and, you know, credit and didn't take any for himself. I've noticed that in recent weeks. And, you know, that's right from the John Wooden playbook, too. You know, and he has quoted John Wooden before, and he did it yesterday, again. He said, he was asked about if he's worried about the team handling the current success. No,

he said, I believe it was what Coach Wooden that said, talent is God given, be humble, fame is man given, be wise, ego is self-given, be careful. I try to remind the guys of that every week. Anyway, look, I said before I started talking about my theory about the fracturing, I said the primary reason probably is the coaching. Yes, I know. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I recognize that as well. So what did you think about the game in the quarterback?

Well, it's interesting because what, did you hear what Ron Rivera said about when Taylor Heineke came off the field after throwing the interception? and interception, I might want to point out, that was aided in part because his arm was hit. Yeah, it wasn't. He threw the ball. 100%. Right. The biggest thing about him, meaning Heineke, is that he looked at that disappointment in himself. He wants a chance to redeem himself, and that's all he needed.

He got an opportunity, and you can see it in his eyes when he comes to the sideline, that he knew he made a mistake, and he knew he just needed a chance to redeem himself. And we were fortunate enough to do that. He's looking in the dude's eyes, Kevin. He's in love. He's in love. And you know what? So are his teammates. I mean, you heard what Jonathan Allen said after the game.

Yep. That Taylor Heineke shouldn't be their quarterback, that he needs to be their quarterback. There's a love affair going on. here. Yeah, it's funny because you're right. That interception wasn't necessarily his fault. I don't know if he had the wrong read and he shouldn't have been going there in the first place. Who knows? But his arm got hit. His arm did not get hit on the play that should have ended the game. The Trayvon Moerig, you know, dropped interception, dropped pick six, should have ended the game. And it would have been a

completely different story. I mean, that wasn't, you know, a tip ball that a guy. diving to the ground to try to get. That was a terrible, terrible throw by Taylor Heineke, who hitched twice, through late, and threw it into double coverage, and it should have been game over there. But here's what I said yesterday. You know, there are five games left, and there's a lot now in play over these last five games. The division is in play, being two games out, a wild card spot is in play. but it's more than that that's in play because I think personally we've all,

regardless of your position before or before these four games, if it was total pro, sign them to a long-term deal, if it was somewhere in between, or if it was, this guy's not the answer. If you're being objective and you're being open-minded, you can now say after these four games with some level of confidence, that what is also in play here is the team's future quarterback situation. Because he has earned the right, not just the four games, but certainly solidified that right in the four games, to be at the very least in the conversation to be the team starting quarterback moving forward,

not just next year, but beyond that. And I'm not talking about the context of they may not have any other options, you know, they might not be in position to draft somebody. They may not love somebody to draft. There may not be anybody out there that's really, you know, worth going to get. Or if they are, they may not want to be traded here or they may not want to come here. I'm talking about he's, you know, earning as we speak that right. Now, I'm not saying that you have to know right now if he should be the starter next year or not, Tommy.

But I am saying that if you still say that he does. doesn't deserve to be seriously considered, then you're really stuck on stubbornness and you're not being fair. You know, because his performance has been significantly influential on the outcome of these games. You know, without him and the way he's playing, okay, maybe Ryan Fitzpatrick would have the same thing, maybe Kyle Allen, but they're not the ones playing. He's playing, and without him, they wouldn't have a four-game winning streak right now. wouldn't. And oh, by the way, they wouldn't have won the two games they won to get to two and six. Exactly. Against the Giants and the Falcons. Right. Absolutely. I'm not still 100% sure, but I am definitely, I mean, everything that I've liked about them is staying the same. But all the other stuff is really starting to grow on me. I still think he's flawed in many ways and that they need to aim higher. But I'm slowly now understanding. there's a lot of his positives are outweighing his negatives.

And that's what you want. I was skeptical. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and act like I was a Taylor Hinekeye guy from the start. It was the Tampa game that won me over, and not the playoff game, the one that they just played a few weeks ago. Because I said that was an answer game. That was coming off the buy. and Taylor Heineke was probably one interception or two interceptions away from being benched for Kyle Allen at that point. And that was his step-up game.

You know, you blow this one, son. You're back on the bench, I think. And not only, I mean, not only did he step up, he stepped up well. So in a moment where he needed to play well to save his job, he did that. And that shows me something. You know, he didn't do the opposite. He didn't fold up. He never folds up.

By the way, if you were wondering, officially Fitzpatrick is having season-ending surgery. That news came out just as the podcast was starting. No, Tommy, you're right. I think this is repetitive from earlier conversations over the last couple of weeks. But we went from what you just described, and I'm not talking about fans and media. I'm talking about them, Rivera, Scott Turner, and internally. We went from, you know, if it doesn't go well in the Tampa game, it might be Kyle Allen thereafter. I asked Ron about that, you know, to a certain degree, and he said he's very intrigued and curious to see what Kyle.

This was before the Tampa game. And so what would be an interesting, I asked Ron this two weeks ago, are people in the building after the three games, it was three at the time, are they starting to potentially change their position on him? Because what I just said to you is for fans and us. It's like, look, you have to be open-minded and you've got to now at least, you can't say there's no chance. You have to at least be open to the possibility that this might be the guy. But they weren't open to that possibility four weeks ago. they tried to trade for Mitch Trubisky before the trade deadline. We both have this sense that if he hadn't played well against Tampa,

they may have gone to Kyle Allen. The issue is, have they changed their minds now over the last four weeks? Wouldn't surprise me if the answer is they've either changed their minds or they're slowly coming around to what we just talked about, which is you've got to be open-minded now to the possibility that you got your guy. which by the way, leads to, well, what should they do about it if he is the guy? Well, they don't have to do anything about it right now. He's under contract this year and next.

Let's let these final five games play out, and that's what they should do. And then if they're absolutely convinced after five games or more, if they end up having more games, then they can work on some sort of extension. You know, I was very critical, you'll remember, about the organization, lacking in vision when it came to certain things. And to me, the cousins thing was right there in front of them. You got to have some vision early on, especially at that position, that you got a guy. You got a guy that can start and be a top half of the league guy.

You got to do something about it now when the price is inexpensive. And so they didn't do that. With this guy, the price ain't skyrocketing unless he goes and wins. the Super Bowl. But the point is, you've got five games, and then if it makes sense, you can extend them. If not, you can bring them back on the second year of a very inexpensive deal, and let's see what happens. But I wonder what they're thinking right now. That's more important than what we're thinking. What are they thinking about this guy right now? You say the head coach is in love, because he's looking at his eyes and gazing. I mean, I don't know what, I think there's probably a lot of

different opinions in the organization. Oh, there may be different opinions above, you know, above Ron? You know, we don't know what the two, quote, GMs are thinking, the two Marties, Marty Herney and Marty Mayhew, but, look, I think we know what the coach thinks. You know, this is what I wrote about today. This whole David and Goliath story that Ron has been used. using as his mode of motivation when talking about his team and how they're David, that's Taylor Heineke.

Taylor Heineke's David. And every week he faces Goliath. Yeah, he started that thing before the Tampa game when we both just, you know, admitted that, you know, he was potentially thinking about Kyle Allen if the Tampa game hadn't gone well. Yeah. So, I mean, I just think that there, like. On the field, there is a growing love fest for Taylor Hineke.

I have no idea if it's matched in the front office where, you know, front office people generally salivate over talent in the draft as much as anything. Your favorite thing to do, power rankings, ESPN just put theirs out in Washington made the biggest jump from 22 up to 16. 16 would be top half of the league in terms of teams. They were 22nd last week. I'm, this is going to be fun Sunday. Like this is just gone from, you know, another one of those years to a season that's in play and a massive game against the Cowboys, the biggest one, I think, in five years. I think since they played them on Thanksgiving in 2016.

That was a very hyped game. The Cowboys were 9-1, Washington was 6-3-1 coming off that win on a Sunday night over Green Bay. It was Thanksgiving Day. That was the last time there was the feel of like a real important game. And by the way, not just important to us, but important to NFL fans. Like, you know, I was watching right when the radio show ended this morning, Stephen A's show, not Stephen A's show. Greenberg show, and they're all talking about how big of a game Washington and Dallas is,

and does Washington have a chance? Let's, by the way, make one thing clear here. This is must win for Washington Sunday as far as the division goes. I think all of you realize that. They can't, I mean, they won't be mathematically eliminated. But if they have, if they, if everybody's dreaming division title and a home playoff game, you have to win Sunday. If not, you're down three games with four to go, and Dallas has already won the first game head to head.

So Sunday becomes must. Now, it's not must in terms of the wild card race. The wild card race is going to go down. You're not going to be eliminated from the wild card race if you get eliminated from it for a few weeks. You're going to be in this thing for several more weeks as far as the wild card's concerned. But if you want to win the division, you've got to win Sunday. And what's happening, by the way, is Washington's really be. become a sharp bettors favorite. The number is down to four. It opened at four and a half, went to

five initially. Now it's down to four. People are really starting to take Washington seriously. And I think it's part because they've got a formula that is sort of tried and true. Look, you saw some of it last night, you know, in a totally unique way. But, you know, they're able to move the football. they're able to run the football. They're not committing big mistakes to beat themselves. And they've got a defense that has improved significantly. They get, by the way, Montez sweat back potentially this weekend. I know several of you saw that news and you're like, no, no, no, no, come on.

Montez Sweat and Chase Young are talents. And by the way, based on what's happened without them for four weeks, you would hope that if there was a message that needed to get through, it's now gotten through. How about this, Tommy? I said this on the radio show this morning. The Logan Thomas news after the game was torn ACL, torn MCL, done, right? I've not seen an update today, but the update from Ron yesterday is it may not be as bad as we thought.

It may not be a torn ACL. Now, there might be some knee issues that could keep them out, you know, this season or a few games or whatever, but it's not a torn ACL. And I said to Brendan, my producer this morning, or maybe he said it. I think he said it to me. He said, when's the last time you heard a report from Schaefter or Rappaport or one of these guys saying,

they fear that it is, you know, a torn ACL? And they've been wrong. Like, they're always right on this stuff, on injuries. That's my sort of memory of it. Like, I never think that they get this wrong, but they may have gotten this one wrong, which would be sort of another break that seems, the team seems to be getting all of them right now. Yeah. No, you're right.

And you know what? Maybe, again, from a media point of view, maybe those guys have the same access they used to have in the building. Yeah. Maybe. You know, because we as we've seen. Well, it was pretty quick. Yeah. Well, I'm pointing out, I mean, Bruce was a SIF, apparently for people he cared about when it came to leaking information.

Yeah, people outside the market for Bruce. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Oh, Tommy, this building has leaked much less since the day Ron got here. There are still occasional pieces of information that I think a lot of us get, you know, here and there. but it's totally different since he got here. Yes.

Totally. Yes, it has. Absolutely. And again, I think part of that has to do with the people above him. Look, Marty Herney was a reporter for the Washington Times. Yeah. Used to cover the team in the 80s. He knows how this game plays, okay?

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to talk to Marty Herney? Nothing. Nothing. Not even zero. You never hear his name, never see his name anywhere. Like, you wouldn't even know he worked for the team at this point. You know, and I don't know that much about Martin Mayhew, but I just think that you've got, from afar, you've got guys running the football operation

where power is not their main objective. Right. That makes a big difference if the egos aren't nearly, aren't so big. And by the way, the desire for power, as you said, and more power and more influence isn't as big. Let me just tell you one piece of information I did get, and it's, I think, not information that's, you know, proprietary or exclusive or any of that. but they are nearing a sellout for Sunday. Now, here's something I didn't know until this morning after the radio show. Do you know what capacity is at FedEx Field?

I thought it's $75,000. $67,017 is their actual capacity. For those of you, now, I was told by somebody that that number was out there people knew it. I didn't know it. I bet you a lot of people listening to this podcast did not know that the capacity of FedEx Field now is down to 67,017. You know what? So what capacity is at this point? That's not even the issue. I mean, it is an issue and it's a big issue, but not for this week and not for the rest of the year. They had sold a lot of the tickets, you know, prior to this win streak. And that would lead me to believe that it was a lot of cowboy fans that were buying up the seats.

And I think that they believe that to be true also. So I don't know what kind of crowd mix you're going to get on Sunday because whatever's left is apparently being sold at a very high value on Stubhub or any of the aftermarket ticket sites, not just Stubhub. But 67,017 is capacity, and they are expecting Sunday to be a sellout for the first time this year. That's great news. I will also mention to all of you that the Philadelphia home game, which is their next home game, is very slow right now. So, you know, if they're still in the hunt here, that Philadelphia game on January, second could be a massive game as well and a massive game for both teams and start, you know, start buying up those tickets. If you're some of the people that were interested in going to the Dallas

game or you're going to the Dallas game, understand that before the Philadelphia fans get access to those January 2nd tickets, because they haven't thought about that being a big game yet, or they hadn't like Dallas did when they were four and one or five and one or six and one. But, you know, that game needs to pick up. That. game is trending in the direction of a lot of the other games this year in terms of attendance. And the cowboy game is the outlier. I hope it's, you know, a solid 50, 50, 60, 40 Washington to Dallas fans. I fear what it might be. But still, you know, for the team to have a sellout for the first time this year, you know, hate to say this, but they don't really care who's buying

the tickets. They do care. They absolutely care. But, you know, earlier in the year when it looked like Washington people weren't going to buy tickets to any of these games. They gladly sold them to anybody who came in. What were you going to say? Sorry. Dallas fans, you know, invading a home field is not, you know, it's not particularly unusual to Washington. They do it everywhere.

Exactly. You know, Cowboys fans. So, I mean, it's just, the Washington has earned the reputation of being, you know, a place where visiting fans invade when teams like the dolphins come to town and all of a sudden there's Miami fans everywhere. So they've earned their reputation on that. But to be fair, you know, there's a lot of teams around the league

where there's Dallas fans in the stands for the other team's home game. It's one thing I wanted to go back on. You talk about Chase Young and Montez Sweat. and when they'll, you know, how Montette's probably going to be back this week. Did you hear Rivera when I had his way to mention Shaka Tony? Did, in his press conference?

I did not. In fact, I was just going to mention something about Shaka Tony. He said, Shaka Tony made a couple of spectacular plays and brings a lot of people. Well, I see why you're bringing you. it up. Let me just tell you what I was about to go to next. It was going to be kind of upon further review, a couple of things that I noticed that I didn't mention in my

recap. And Chaka Tony was only on the field for five snaps, but he was very noticeable on the field for five snaps. And when they drafted him, I knew of him because I've watched a lot of Penn State the last couple of years because I have a younger

son at Penn State. And so I've watched a lot of him and I knew what kind of pass rusher he was. But he was a seventh round pick. He ends up making the team. And I remember hearing from somebody during training camp that they really liked him and there was a chance that he was going to make the team. But if you, he wasn't out there a lot. But 58, Shaka Tony has real juice and explosiveness. And he had this at Penn State too as a pass rusher. And I would bet any amount of money that just the thought of him,

you know, as a bigger, stronger, faster, more mature player a year or two years down the road excites Jack Del Rio, Ron Rivera, and that coaching staff. But you brought it up because you think it was another shot at Chase Young and Montez Sweat. No, I don't necessarily think it was. I just think it's something to keep in mind for the future, if you're planning a future with Montez Sweat and Chase Young as your defense events. Right. That's all.

No, I don't think there was any... I don't think that Ron Rivera is taking shot to Chase Young when he's laid up in a hospital bed or I don't know if he had the operation. I don't think that's happening anymore. I just think it was, you know, I think he'd say like Shakatonin. They do. I mean, I think that's why, you know, he was on the roster. And he's definitely one of those guys that I think is, has a specialty.

And the specialty is quick twitch edge rusher with relentless motor. So I think that that's him. The other thing real quickly that I wanted to mention after kind of watching some of the game back yesterday, I didn't watch the whole game back. I watched some key elements of the game. I mentioned yesterday that they're still doing a great job of moving the football, and yet they've only scored 17 points in the last two games, respectively, and that'll start to catch up with them. What I should have mentioned, and what I really looked at a little bit more closely and kind of going through the game quickly was, you know, and I mentioned yesterday, they didn't have one three and out, you know, even in their non-scoring drives, you know, five plays. 24 yards, three minutes and eight seconds. Six plays 20 yards, three minutes, seven seconds.

11 plays 47 yards, six minutes and five seconds. Those were the three drives after the opening touchdown drive. Well, what they're accomplishing there is they're accomplishing once again increasing that time of possession, meaning that the other team's not on the field. They are also flipping field position. And so the Raiders, because of that, ended up with poor starting field position, which meant they had to go further. Now, in some of those cases, Washington started with poor starting field position as well. They started at their own 10 on their second drive, their own 24 on their other drive and the 10-yard line on their third drive. So the way they're playing right now, to expect them to go 90 yards on two of their, you know, four drives in the first half in square. that's asking a lot.

They're not creating the massive explosive play right now. But it's okay if they take three, four, five, six minutes off the clock and then punt it back to the Raiders, and the Raiders are starting at their own 10 or their own nine-yard line. So there's benefit in that. And then they did obviously hurt themselves with a scoring opportunity with the interception. And I said yesterday what Tommy also said. It really wasn't his fault.

his hand got hit. And then the penalties hurt them on a couple of those drives as well. But overall, again, this is beating a dead horse, I understand. But would you rather they move the football and not score or not move the football and not score? You're of course going to take the former because that means the other team isn't scoring. And that means the other team, if they get the ball back, is going to get the ball. back deep in their territory. And that's what Washington's doing a really good job of right now. I'd like to see him finish more and score more. You know, definitely, I'd like to see them turn

the opponent over more. You know, as great as the defense has played, you know, you've now gone, I think it's two games with one turnover and the Carolina game was no turnover. So it's one turnover in three games that you have forced, that's not enough. You know, you got to get takeaways and you got to get some short fields in some of these games as well, and they haven't gotten those, even though the defense has played much better and has been specifically much better on third down. Anyway, what else? What do you think they got left in them? What's going to happen here over the last five games? I mean, I've got no reason to think that they don't have a run in them, that they'll win most of these games.

Really, most of them? Yeah. I think the Giants are a wreck. Right. You know? Yeah. Philly is unpredictable. Giants are a wreck, and they've got three of those games against those two teams.

So they went two of those. Split with the Cowboys, they get to nine and eight in their problems. in the postseason as a wildcard team. Yeah. I think that's plausible. Absolutely. They're in the sixth spot right now. I'm with you.

I have a really good feeling about this team right now. It's just remarkable. I'd be shocked if they collapsed. I'd be shocked if they collapsed too. I'd be shocked if they ended up getting hammered in three of their final five. and lost for their final five. You know, I don't see this game on Sunday being one-sided either way. I don't see a Philadelphia game, either one of them,

because Philadelphia can really run the football. I don't see, I see the, I see every single one of these games with Washington playing the way they're playing where they should be in these games. I felt that way about the Raider game. I picked them to win that. I felt that way about the Seattle game. I picked them to win that one, and I thought they'd play well against Carolina, although I was totally unsure, and I think I picked Carolina to win that game about what they...

But really, I'd be surprised, unless there's just a rash of injuries, you know, Sunday, where they start losing key players. And to be without Logan Thomas is a big deal. It really is. And I know they were without them for a while, but when they were without them for a while, they were losing most of those games. But yeah, I think that this team is, they've got some good things going on.

Sunday's huge. You know, Ron's pointed to these five division games, you know, round robin. I love that comment. You know, of being the determinant factor. Here's the truth. The truth is the reason these division games matter is because of what they did

in their previous four games against non-division teams. because these five would mean nothing if they went two and two in their last four, let alone one and three. Hell, if they had gone three and one in the last four games and they were five and seven, well, you're not really playing a division at that point. Right. You know, just one game difference. You know, the work that they did against non-division teams over the last four weeks is why they're in position for these division games to matter. It's been sort of a pet peeve point that I've tried to make all year because he's pointed

to these division games. And yeah, I understand he wanted to get to these games with a chance. That was his point all along. But the only way to get to these games with a chance was to excel in the non-division games that you've had over the last nine weeks, you know, or eight weeks or whatever it is, 10 weeks since week two. And, you know, they haven't excelled because they had a four-game losing streak. But they are right now since the, you know, their last division game, they are five

and five. I mean, it's weird the way they got there, but they are five and five since their last division game. And I guarantee you, if you look back on it and said, you know, going into those last five, we basically just have to be right around 500, which means we got to go five and five over the next 10. And they did. Remarkably, considering at one point, they were one in five. And those, you know, in the first six of those with the buccaneers on deck. And the Seahawks and the Raiders, which didn't look easy, you know, after they had lost to the Broncos. But that's the NFL, man. It just, it changes.

And this could change too. But I don't think it'll be because they aren't ready, prepared and playing high energy confident football. I think if their results aren't great down the stretch, it's because they got beat by, you know, a better quarterback twice in Dak Prescott. in a better team, actually overall talent-wise, in the Cowboys, and that, you know, they might have lost, you know, a cliffhanger to Philadelphia once, something like that. Yeah. Okay.

Something happened at the end of the Wizards game last night that really bothered me. So I want to talk about that when we come back. We've sort of already talked about the Monday night game, but a couple of more things on that as well. Right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast is presented by MyBooky. Everybody's trying to cash in on the next best crypto. But if you want a guaranteed way to double your money,

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Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with My Booky. So I want to mention something about the Wizards game last night here in a moment. But I also just wanted to mention real quickly, I had Brian Johnson, the kicker. who made the game-winning kick Sunday in Vegas on the radio show this morning. He was great, really nice kid. And just the whole, I find the path to where he is now for a kicker just to be interesting. You know, all he's hoping after the draft is for somebody to sign him. And then he gets signed by Chicago, and they've just signed their kicker there to a long-term deal.

so he knows he's not going to be the kicker in Chicago unless the kicker gets hurt. So then it comes down Tommy to these preseason games and he kicked a 54-yard field goal in a pre-season game at the very end of the game in a blowout loss to Buffalo. And that was big, massive for him because, you know, he said,

and I said, is this kicking thing sort of like a cult? Like everybody knows what everybody else is doing. Everybody knows, you know, what's going on. Coaches, he's like, yeah, it's the exact. the way there's a whole, you know, our own little world of kickers. And, you know, you're, you've got a big kick in a preseason game and, you know, you know, another guy's got one. Anyway, his path to ultimately kicking in New Orleans this year in Washington is fascinating. By the way, his first game, NFL game, was on Monday night football against the Seahawks in Seattle

earlier this year. And he came on to kick a go-ahead field goal with less than two minutes to go in the game, and he made it. And the Saints won the game 13-10. Anyway, I would urge you to go listen to him. He was great. He's a Gonzaga kid here locally, grew up in Bethesda, went to mercy, for those of you that are part of the Catholic mafia in town. He's a mercy kid that ended up at Gonzaga, but it was really good. Also, Mickey Spagnola, who's covered the Cowboys Forever, was also on the show. And they're getting healthier now. I think we're going to catch Dallas. with maybe the best situation they've had in several weeks as far as health. Randy Gregory and Gallimore may both be back for this game.

Randy Gregory was one of the best defensive players in the league before he got hurt. And you've got Cooper now two weeks in the rearview mirror of COVID, which is huge for them. And they might have their head coach back, although I don't know if that's a benefit or not. Let me just tell you, as a Washington fan, I hope Mike McCarthy's there on the sideline Sunday, rather than Dan Quinn being there. So I just wanted to mention something really quickly about the Wizards game that really bothered me last night. First of all, I don't know if I mentioned this on the podcast yesterday. I know I mentioned it on the radio show that Indiana on a four-game losing skid being a five-point favorite last night reeked to high heaven. And I liked Indiana last night laying the points.

I did not play it. I had a terrible lapse in the time as to what time it was and what time the game started. Anyway, they got their ass kicked last night, and this is now four times, basically, in their last five games, that they've not only lost, they really haven't had a chance. This game was never in doubt. They got dominated. They had some turnovers. They didn't play defense well. Indiana had lost four in a row, and they were the better team.

team. But that's not, that didn't make me happy because I'm a big Wizards fan. But the end of the game made me just not happy. I didn't watch this live. I had turned it to the football because the game was over. They were down 116 to 102, the Wizards word to the Pacers, with a minute 41 left in the game. It was over. But then they had an eight point run to close it to 116 to 110. That was as close as the game ever was from, you know, in the second half. 116 to 110. 23 seconds left after Aaron Holiday made a layup to make it 116 to 110. Hey Tommy, they've got a three-pointer in the NBA, don't they? Yeah, they do, unfortunately.

23 seconds left, and they just let Indiana dribble the clock out. I didn't watch this live. A friend of mine texted me. It was just a big, you know, WTF, the Wizards. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He said, they were down six with 23 seconds to go and didn't foul. They let the Pacers dribble the clock out. I texted Chris Miller early this morning.

I said, I didn't watch it, but it says on the game book that there was no other activity. Is this true? He goes, yeah, they didn't play the foul game at all. So they didn't want to try to get at least two more shots at three to tie the game. Look, if there are five seconds left in the game and you close it to six, of course. You know, I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt if you're down six with seven seconds to go something like that and maybe don't have any timeouts left. Okay, there are 23 seconds left in the basketball game.

There are multiple possessions. You play the foul game, you might have four or five months. more offensive possessions in the game. Yeah, that's unusual. That's not good. That doesn't make any sense to me. You know, it's the same thing that I've said previously. I hate, like, at the end of quarters,

when there's like a second and a half left and they just throw the ball in bounds in the back court and the guy just hands the ball to the referee. What the hell? There's a second and a half left. Sometimes they do it with, like, three seconds left. Here's what you see every once in a while on SportsCenter top 10 highlights. Is some dude thrown it in from three-quarters court or half court?

Why wouldn't you take every opportunity when the goal is to win the game to get a shot up that might count? And by the way, might count for three. Well, you know, the pushback over the years is, well, these guys don't want to impact their field goal percentage. Okay. Sorry, the goal is for the team to win the game. How often, all of you that watch the NBA, you see this all the time. Somebody makes a shot second and a half left and they just throw the ball in and your team has it in the back court and they just, you know, they don't turn and, you know, they don't hurl the ball down the court towards the basket. Or they don't try to throw the ball into somebody, you know, at half court and have them heave one up. I don't get that at all. I don't get how down six with 23 seconds left in the game, you're not trying to win the game. We've seen, I mean, especially in the NBA where with timeouts,

you can advance the ball into the front court. I mean, are you serious? I was looking for Wes Unsell Jr.'s press conference notes, and I couldn't find them. I wonder if anybody asked him about it. But really, that's unacceptable. You're in a game. You just ran off eight straight points.

Okay, you may have a bunch of subs in the game. Who cares? You're down six, foul them. Maybe they make one, maybe they make two, but then you get a three-point, you know, you get a three-pointer up. Let's say they make one or two, timeout, advance the ball, three-pointer. Now it's 117, 113, with, you know, 16 seconds left.

I mean, you've got to try. I'm not saying that the percentage chance of you winning the game is very high, down six with 23 seconds left. But I can tell you what it is if you let them dribble out the clock. It's 0%. Oh, you're right. You're absolutely right. That's certainly enough time for something, you know, for circumstances to dictate that you get a couple of three-point shots and stops for them as well. I just didn't understand that at all.

That didn't make any sense to me. Maybe Wes was so disgusted. I'll bet you sometimes a coach is so disgusted with his team that he just wants to leave. Just go home. I understand that. I understand that. I don't know. You know, not everybody is wired that way.

I hope he is, though. I've watched a lot of basketball games over the years, and I see a lot of basketball games. a lot of teams basically throw in the towel concede when the chances are overwhelmingly that you don't have a chance. I don't know. I, you know, I think a lot of you out there have always played the game, you know, hey, we're down six. There's a three. It's good. Timeout, foul, steal, they miss free throws. And you're always thinking about until that final horn sounds, you're saying we got a chance? Anyway, uh, 20, I'm sorry, you know, six seconds, eight seconds, you know, 10 seconds.

But 23 seconds, there's no answer for that, none. Unless it's, we had a bunch of guys that were hurt, and I was afraid that they were going to get more injured in 23 seconds, and that wasn't the case. Anyway, okay, we got a couple of other things. I know you had a couple of thoughts on Turgeon. You also want to mention something related to Gil-Haw. I believe it is.

We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Just a reminder, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, do so. It really helps us also rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify. If you get a chance, that helps us a lot as well. Many of you responded to my additional thoughts yesterday on Mark Turgeon. I appreciate the thoughts, whether they were in agreement with me or not. but for those of you who tried to push back on the facts that I gave, you're wrong. I'm not.

I just gave you facts. But again, Tommy, my position basically is, look, if your position is, he's a good coach, but it's been 10 years, and they went to one sweet 16 and 10 years, it's gotten stale, it's time for something new. That's a totally reasonable position to have. And I'm not against that position. I think it's completely reasonable. If you are of the mindset that he's a terrible coach

and they should have made this change a long time ago, well, you're just wrong. That's not true. And if you were of my position, which is I saw an improving coach getting better, and maybe what's next is, you know, like Jay Wright went six years without getting out of the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.

Villanova fans wanted them gone. And then what came late, know, a few years over the next several years, two national championships. I'm not suggesting that was going to happen, but I know he's a good coach. But anyway, it was shocking to me to hear it on Friday. It was his call, by the way, Tommy. This was mostly him. But what did you want to say about it?

Well, look, you know, we tend to forget, and we've seen this before with other teams, but it's hard to follow a legend in a job. And he was following Gary Williams, who wasn't just successful but was beloved. Okay. And that's a hard act to follow unless you're so successful, you can wipe away the emotion. Pergent was not particularly a lovable guy.

Okay. Right. And that probably didn't help him. It's unfair, but it probably didn't help him. Now, you know, a final four appearance or two could have certainly won a lot of fans over. But he had a difficult job in following Gary Williams, who was part of being at a Maryland game. Part of being at a Maryland game was watching Gary Williams on the sideline. You know?

Not just the team win. And so it was an unenviable job. and hopefully the guy who is the second guy after Gary, and there's more distance between those glory days, gets a little bit more of a break. I just think he wasn't Gary, and that hurt him. Yeah, I mean, I think that's always true. Yeah, I mean, Gary didn't follow Lefty exactly.

He followed Bob Wade, you know? And so, yeah, I think, you know, look, I think that the 95% of the reason that the fan base had turned on him, internally they were ready to move on from him, and it would have probably happened at the end of this year, is the results in March. You know, if the results in March were better, it wouldn't be a conversation. And unfortunately for him, his best team didn't get an opportunity. which was the 2020 team. I mean, if the 2020 team goes to the Elite 8,

we're not having this conversation right now. But it didn't, and it didn't get that opportunity. And so it's one sweet 16 and 10 years, and not just one sweet 16 in 10 years. They didn't do well in the ACC or the Big 10 tournaments. They only, you know, they never got past the semifinals in any of the conference tournaments, which, by the way, are a big deal to the fan bases.

You know, you want to see in that weekend, you know, before the NCAA tournament starts, you'd love to see your team get to a championship game. And with four top three finishes in the Big Ten regular season, they should have had more than just two semifinal, you know, games in the Big Ten tournament. So that's it, the primary reason. But what you said is also true in that it was going to be hard to follow Gary.

He didn't have the same personality that Lefty or Gary had. And I mentioned too, Tommy, that he didn't have those memorable wins. You know, Gary and Lefty were beaten number one almost every year. You know, even in a year that was just an okay season, they would knock off Carolina or knock off Duke, you know, and it was like, ah, that Virginia game when we beat Ralph Samson when they were number one.

Maryland didn't even go to the tournament that year, but they beat Ralph Samson and number one Virginia. You know, and Lefty, you know, pumped the left fist up into the air as he, as the fans stormed the floor. You know, he had some of those wins, but not enough of them. And to be fair to him, and I mentioned this, it's not like the Big Ten's had a lot of teams rank number one. They do right now, by the way, in Purdue. But, you know, Carolina and Duke were always in that top perch, so you had many more opportunities. And here's the other thing, too, and I think I mentioned this yesterday, there was never going to be the same feeling about the Big Ten regular season results.

You know, beating Michigan State in East Lansing a couple of years. winning three of four, three of his last four against Dizzo, winning three of his last four against Painter, going 82 and 50 in the Big Ten, because there wasn't the warm and fuzzy feeling about the Big Ten opponents, you know, about beating them. So there was a sort of a built-in disadvantage there. But anyway, I, that's it. All that could have been overcome. All that could have been overcome with some level of tournament success. It would have all been overcome with, you know, in 10 years, like in 10 years, he went to the tournament seven times, okay, or qualified for it because they didn't have a tournament

in 2020. So he went to the tournament seven times in, you know, basically his 10 years of coaching, right, or whatever. Yeah, qualified for, I'm sorry, six times in 10 years, went to the tournament six times in 10 years qualified for it. And in those six times, had he gone to three sweet 16s and won a lead eight, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Probably not. Yeah, it was, the issue, it wasn't only that it was one sweet 16. It was one sweet 16 with a team that had been ranked number two at that point in the year, you know, it's at one point during that season, and had, um, and beat Hawaii to get to the sweet. Now, that wasn't their fault.

That's who was in front of them there. But he was awfully close to other sweet 16s, you know, very close. But he didn't get through. They didn't get through against LSU. They didn't get through, you know, they lost the buzzer against LSU. They lost to West Virginia when Mellow Trimble got hurt in the middle of that game. And he did a lot of good things. He did a lot of really good things.

Develop players, ran a clean program, won a shitload of games. He's a good coach. He's a very good coach. but the results were what they were, and because of it, the program got a little stale. You know, two years removed from their best season and their best team, and maybe the opportunity to end the staleness. He never got that opportunity, and there you go. So, all right, what else?

You had something else. Well, I mean, very personal for me. Gil Hodges, the late great Brooklyn Dodgers player, Gil Hodges, was, elected to the Hall of Fame by the Golden Era Committee, which replaced the Veterans Committee over the weekend. He had been denied numerous times a chance to get in. It always fell short on the votes, and I never quite understood that, because Gil Hodges, to me, was always a Hall of Famer. He was part of that great Brooklyn Dodgers team, the Boys of Summer, that remarkably, I contend, is probably the most beloved baseball team in the history of the game. They won one World Series in 1955, that group went to the World Series about six or seven times during that stretch.

But it's a legendary team that has only grown in stature. You know, Jackie Robinson is in the Hall of Fame. Pete Lee Lees is in Hall fame. Duke Snyder is in a Hall fame. Roy Campanella is in a Hall fame. Gil Hodges belonged in Hall fame, too. When he retired, he had 370 home run. runs, which was the most by a right-handed hitter in the history of baseball at that time.

All the guys ahead of him were left-handed hitters who had more home runs. He had three gold gloves from 57 to 59, and he would have had more, except they didn't start the gold glove for fielding until 1957. He was an eight-time all-star, but he was just so beloved in the heart and soul of those Brooklyn Dodgers team. And to end, the topping of it, he was the manager of the 1969 Miracle Mets, which really is still one of the most legendary remarkable seasons, a team that went from eighth place to the World Series in that year. The year that we walked on the moon, the Mets won the World Series.

You know, that's a comparison right there. And Hodges was beloved as a manager as well. He managed the senators. Yes, he did. And he was good. And he was a good. He was a good manager for them. For me, it's personal because, I mean, I grew up in Brooklyn.

And his brother-in-law was my barber in my neighborhood in Brooklyn. We only lived a couple of blocks from where Evans Field used to be. And there was a time when I was a kid where I was really sick. I mean, seriously ill. And Gilhodge's hand wrote a two-page letter to me when I was sick. Wow. And I don't have it anymore. Oh.

I wish I had it. I know. But, you know, I mean. What were you sick with? You've never told me this. I had a hyperactive thyroid at a time when kids never been diagnosed with hyperactive thyroid. It was very young to have a hyperactive thyroid. They didn't know how to diagnose.

knows, first of all, I mean, I went from being, you know, 10 years old, about 90 pounds, to being 11 years old and 60 pounds. Okay, so I was pretty sick, and they were worried because they couldn't figure out what was wrong with me until they finally figured out with a hyperactive thyroid, and I took medicine for about five years, and everything turned out okay. but Gil Hodges wrote a letter to me when I was sick because, you know, somebody, his brother-in-law got him to do it. But that's how tight that, I mean, the Dodgers were neighbors and friends in Brooklyn at the time.

The ballpark was part of the neighborhood. It was sandwiched right in there. So, I mean, for me, it's a special moment for him being a Hall Fame. And I'll probably, I'm planning a trip to the Hall Fame this summer with a couple of friends of mine, one of which who has never been there, and it'll make me feel good to walk through the hall and see Gil Hodges' plaque in there.

Well, do you remember what the letter said? No, I don't. I don't remember what the letter said. I mean, it was some, you know, you know, be strong, hang in there, you know, kind of thing. But I remember the color. I remember the blue ink on the,

like I think it was written with a fact. mountain pen. I remember looking at the pages and seeing the ink. I just don't remember what it said. Do you remember your reaction to it? Well, yeah. I was like to see. He laid it. I mean, you know, I grew up at a Brooklyn Dodgers house. My uncle Rocco drove a car in one of the parades at the Dodgers house. You were one of those convertible cars with a Dodger in the back. So, and I went to Abbott Field when I was three years old to see a game. The last season, the Dodgers were there. And I grew up hearing stories about them from my dad and from my uncle. So, I mean, to get a letter from Gil Hodges at that point was really special to me. Very special.

I think that the whole Brooklyn Dodgers, Ebits Field, and all of the people like you who grew up in New York, grew up in Brooklyn specifically. You know, like I think about Larry King all those years talking about the Brooklyn Dodgers and growing up in Brooklyn. And the romanticizing about Ebbets Field and about the team and how they could never get over the hump, you know, against the Yankees, right, primarily. And then they beat the Giants right to win the pennant in the shot heard around the – no, no, no, I'm sorry.

The shot heard around the world is Bobby Thompson for the Giants. for the Giants. Yeah, the Giants beating the Dodgers in a three-game playoff. And a three-game playoff. Right. But like it seems like, you know, and by the way, just how many of life's successful and or famous people seem to grow up in that area of the country, New York, during that time? Is that my imagination or not?

I don't know. It just seems like that. No, no, it was. Brooklyn was, I think, at one time, the fifth largest city in the country. Yeah. Even though it's a borough of the city of New York. And, you know, it seemed like every war movie you watched, half the guys in a war movie were from Brooklyn.

Right. You know? Right. And so, no, absolutely. It was a special place. There were three things that could choose. be to the demise of Brooklyn, people say. One was when the Brooklyn Navy Yard closed. It was the biggest employer in the borough, and that closed. One was the closing of the daily newspaper to Brooklyn Eagle,

and the other was the Dodgers leaving town. Yeah, the Dodgers and the Giants both heading out of New York to go west was really an indication of where the country was going, right, at the time. I mean, how devastating. I mean, of all of the the history of sports teams moving. Is that the all-time heartbreaker, the Dodgers to L.A.? I think it is. I think the closest second place. What about the Giants to San Francisco?

Compare that to the Dodgers going to L.A. Wasn't as much the Giants were the third team in New York. I can't even speak to. them because they played in the Bronx and Kugan's Bluff. You know, they played the polo grounds in the stadium I went to when the Mets played there the first two years. So I can't speak to the level of fandom for the Giants, but they were in third. I mean, how remarkable was that?

There were three baseball teams in New York. And all of them were in the World Series, usually every year at one point. Right. You know? I mean, that's why I always say. If I could go back in time and do something, I'd love to have been a sports writer in New York in 1947, the year Jackie Robinson broke in. Right. That would have been great.

And to have three baseball teams there for the next 10 years, it would have been a great time. Listen to this. From 1947, okay, which was Jackie Robinson's integrating baseball, they lost to the Yankees in the 47 World Series. from 47 until 1958. There was a New York team in the World Series every single year. Every single year there was at least one, either the Giants, Dodgers, or Yankees in the World Series. And there were plenty of matchups between the Yankees' giants

and the Yankees and the Dodgers. I mean, the Yankees and the Dodgers many times before the Dodgers finally broke through in 55. beating the Yankees after it looks like they had lost one, two, three, four, four times. And then after beating the Yankees, they lost to the Yankees in 56. Yes, they did. Yeah, the Yankees were the nemesis, but the Yankees were never beloved like the Brooklyn Dodgers were. And Gary Hodges had the two-run Homer, I think.

I think it was a home run. He told him the two runs in the seventh and deciding game of the 55 world. series to give the Dodgers or 2-0-0-1 win over the Yankees in that series. I think it would have been, there's so many, like, when you think about eras to go back to and to live through, that's one of those that

would really be cool. To be in New York, you know, in Brooklyn, to your point specifically, in that kind of era. You know, by the way, all those games played during the daytime. So, I mean, you know, you'd come home

from school and go to the game, right? or listen to the game. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Absolutely. That's awesome. So, happy for Gil Hodges.

All right. Anything else for today? That's a good story. I got nothing else for you, boss. You've never told me that story before. I got many stories. I've never told you. I think you don't have as many as you think that you haven't told me,

but that is definitely one that you had not told me because I would have remembered Gil Hodges writing a sick young Tom Leverro a letter. Let me chop this little nugget on you. I'm writing my life story, you know. I know. I know you've been, you know. Okay. I mean, that's, isn't that part of the reason during COVID?

You started reaching out to a lot of different people? No, no, no, no, no. That's not why. I mean, I'm writing my life story for my family. Right. Not to be, not for anyone else. Well, I mean, who knows me? Maybe you can get a copy.

Maybe I'll get the copy and say, you know what? This deserves publishing. We won't make any money with it. But, all right. So we're editing this part into the show and what we call post-production of the podcast. Because Tommy, as I went to save the show, I typically then date the show. And I put in 12-7-21. and it occurred to me that today is December 7th, a day that will live in infamy.

And not only is it December 7th, but it's December 7th, 2021, which marks the 80-year anniversary of Pearl Harbor. And we just finished talking about Gil Hodges and you in Brooklyn and how many people, you know, came back from the war and almost, you know, all the war stories with so many people that were from Brooklyn. So anyway, we just wanted to come back on and just say that we did forget that today was December 7th, but we remember just in time to put this in after the show it ended. Yes. I mean, everyone knows the stories, but their stories have been told about how there was a Washington football game going on at Griffith Stadium on that day. and the public address announcer during a game started calling out for certain government officials and military leaders to please, you know, one at a time, to please report to their offices or whatever without any explanation over the loudspeaker as to why they were doing that. And like they didn't go on and say, you know, we've been attacked, country's been at war.

They just started announcing names. Please report to your base or something like that. While the football game was going on. I've heard this story so many times during my lifetime from my father and various other people. But I just pulled up a story as you were saying that. December 7th, 1941, Redskins and Eagles playing at D.C.'s Griffith Stadium in what has been called the most forgotten football game of all time. The Skins won the game that day 20 to 14, but it was meaningless. around game time, which was 2 p.m. Eastern, 8 a.m. Pacific, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor in Hawaii.

Midway through the first quarter, the public address announcer began sending strange messages over the loudspeaker, urging military officers, government officials, and diplomats to leave the game and report to their offices in Washington. By the way, Tommy, 1941, Sammy Ball was quarterbacking the Washington team, and they were a good team. They had lost the previous year, the 73-0 game to the Bears. And they would win the NFL title in 1942 the following year. Right, 42 they would win it. Shirley Povich, the Great Washington Post-communist, documented the announcements from the stadium. Admiral W.HP. Bland is asked to report to his office at once. The resident commissioner of the Philippines, Mr. Joaquin Ellizold, is urged to report to his office immediately.

Joseph Umglumph of the FBI is requested to report to the FBI office at once. Captain RX Fenn of the United States Army is asked to report to his office at once. As the messages became more and more frequent, a curiosity grew among the 27,102 fans at Griffith Stadium and players from both teams. Why didn't somebody just look at their phone? go to Twitter. Shirley Povich continues. Everyone was wondering what was happening, but could only guess because Skins' management,

which learned about the Japanese attack through a telegraph message, refused to make an official announcement despite the horror of the moment and the inevitability of America going to war. This from Clyde Shugart, a Redskin lineman at the time. Quote, I guess the Redskins didn't announce it because they didn't want to cause a panic. We sensed that something had happened. Everybody in the stands realized there was something wrong, but we didn't know what. Closed, quote.

Owner George Preston Marshall at the time was asked to explain his decision for withholding the information, and he said, I didn't want to divert the fan's attention from the game. Closed quote. By the third quarter, almost every news photographer had left the stadium, as well as thousands of spectators, and the game ended in almost complete silence. Redskins players reacted patriotically that evening, a group of them protested the attack by marching on the Japanese embassy in Washington. Wow.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that was a huge moment in this world. Huge moment in the world. But it's just, I mean, as big as you get. Can you imagine being in the stadium that day and just hearing, and you know, I mean, look, you've got World War II. going on without you. Yes. You know, Washington, the United States was, you know, in that era of isolationism.

They didn't want to, you know, to get into a war, even though their greatest allies were fighting Hitler in Europe. And then the Japanese obviously made that decision very easy. But to sit in a stadium, you know, no technology, no phones, none of that, and to hear those announcements as, I mean, you know, when you hear who, you know, when you hear who, it is that's being asked to urge to report to their office immediately or at once. Yeah, it must have been a surreal day. And then everybody gets home.

They listen to the radio. They listened to, you know, it was called Sports Talk 980 back then. They turned on Sports Talk 980 and Zabe and Andy are on the air talking about the attack on Pearl Harbor. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I might want to point out that Gil Hodges was a Marine during World War II and was an anti-aircraft gunner in the Far East in the Battle of Okinawa and won the Bronze Star Medal for Combat Heroism.

That's awesome. All right, now we are officially done for the day. Have a great day. I'll be back tomorrow.