The Kevin Sheehan Show - Rules, Rodgers, & Ratings

Episode Date: January 25, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on whether or not the NFL's overtime rule should be changed. They talked more about the incredible NFL playoff weekend and discussed the impact of the performances of Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes on the quarterback search many NFL teams will be on this upcoming off-season. They talked Aaron Rodgers, local NFL TV ratings, Thom's Hall of Fame MLB vote card, and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right. The show today is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag.

Use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll match your first deposit. Dollar for dollar all the way up to $1,000. They've got some prop bets up right now for the Super Bowl. So beyond this weekend, right now Tommy, as Tommy joins me, from Florida, The favorite to be the Super Bowl MVP, and he is a massive favorite at minus 570 is Patrick Mahomes, followed by Joe Burrow, and then Matt Stafford and Jimmy Garoppolo. What's interesting is that the Bengals play the Chiefs in the AFC title game, the Rams and 49ers playing the NFC title game. So I would have thought that the favorite would have been Mahomes. that's the obvious favorite, and he's a very big-time favorite to eventually be the Super Bowl MVP.

But I would have just thought that the second favorite would have been the NFC quarterback, you know, Stafford, because he's got a chance to get to the game, whereas Burrough, if Mahomes is the heavy favorite, won't even be in the game. But they're saying essentially that the winner of the AFC championship game will be, you know, I don't know if they would be favored actually over the ramp. but that Joe Burrow would be a big part of it, and therefore Joe Burrow is the second favorite. The long shot to be your MVP, Tommy,

Jimmy Garoppolo plus 4,000. You wager $100 right now in Jimmy Garoppelow to become the Super Bowl MVP. You win $4,000. That seems like a good long shot to me. That's a big-time long shot at MyBooky. MyBooky.ag, mybooky.com, using my promo code Kevin D.C.

And most importantly, you will double your money upon your first deposit. And they're giving away money, even if you've got a place where you're already gambling. Take the free money, take the place to comparison shop on points, spreads, lines, money lines, you know, price, etc. at mybooky.com, mybooky.orgie.orgie.orgie. What's going on? How you doing? How you doing, boss? Did you enjoy the football? Did you enjoy the football?

Oh, yeah. Very much so. You know, it's a transcendental game when my wife watches and is interested in it, as was the Chief Spills games, and talked about it the next morning. And that's basically transcended football fans, that kind of game. That is so interesting, because at my house on Sunday, the day started with four of us in the house. Okay, my wife, me, my middle son, who lives in Baltimore, with his great. girlfriend, they were over at the house. And my wife, as you know, couldn't care less about sports or football. And my son's girlfriend, my son's girlfriend, who is also like my son a musician, she's a wonderful singer, an artist, she really couldn't care less. I mean, if she weren't, you know,

with my middle son, she wouldn't even know they were playing these games. And so the Rams Buccaneers game is coming down the stretch. And, you know, my wife's listening to what's going on. The girlfriend is not in the room with us. She's doing something else in the other portion of the house. I think she was actually playing piano. And we're kind of yelling a little bit about here comes Brady in the bucket ears. So my wife, my wife jumps in.

she's like, and she just says, is he going to do it again? Is this really going to happen again? And so she stuck it out till the end of that one. But my son's girlfriend, nowhere to be found. But at the end of the Chief's Bill's game, my son's girlfriend, Riley, she's a wonderful girl. Couldn't care less about sports, has no idea what's going on, like my wife. She literally came down in the, at the end of the regulation. And she basically said, like, this is the number one trend on her Twitter, on her Instagram. And she wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

And so there were four of us there for the end of the Bill's Chiefs game in overtime. And I think that probably happened, you know, on a lot of places that people who aren't really into sports. You know, I'll give you another example. I was listening to Howard Stern yesterday, briefly. You know, Howard, I'm a huge fan, and I just, I've had the Sirius XM forever because of him, really more than anything else. And he is not a sports fan at all.

And he really kind of scoffs, you know, at sports. He doesn't know anything about sports, which is okay, although I think it was you who told me once, didn't you tell me once that you? you're leery and a little bit, you know, non-trusting of guys that say they don't follow sports. Was that you? No, that wasn't me. Okay. I, God, I'm trying to think of who that was.

Somebody said, you know, I just don't believe a dude when he says, I'm not into sports at all. And I don't trust that guy. I forget who it was in my life that said that. But I actually have one of my closest, oldest, dearest friends who I was in business with for many years, probably had no more idea than anybody that these games were even going on. And so I've got three, I have three brother-in-laws in my family. None of them care a list about sports. Yeah, I have people in my life that are the same way.

Obviously, my wife being the closest. However, so back to Stern. I turned on Stern when I was in the car yesterday, and all they were talking about, was the Chief Spills game. And Howard was a little bit incredulous. And they were talking about the Bengals game too because J.D. is a Cincinnati fan. And anyway, they were going back and forth.

And I still got the sense that Howard just still doesn't get it. And like I would say to somebody like him who loves to be entertained, it's one of the great reality shows in entertainment. Forget that it's sports. It's an incredible reality show because you have no idea what the outcome is. You know, you don't know. It's not a sitcom.

It's not a television show. It's not a movie that you can watch once and then watch over again. And Sunday, it played out four times over as the greatest reality show on television, which is the NFL. I agree. 100%. You know, I'm low to use the term reality because what we've come to believe are reality shows, I don't think are reality at all.

I think it's like, I think most reality TV under the guise of reality is like professional wrestling with a scripted ending. Okay. Okay. I'm very, but this, this, I mean, you know, we're going to believe that these are not scripted endings, that this truly is reality television. And here's the thing about football. And, I mean, this is my first time really like verbalizing it and thinking about it because basketball is dramatically athletic. okay you know

a dunk you know it's a dramatically athletic sport but it happens in second in brief moments you know

those two those dramatic athletic moments a dramatic athletic moment in a football game can unfurl over a course of what five seconds

six seconds with like a 60 yard run down the field right you know I mean I think that's that's what makes it so much

more appealing to non-sports viewers is they can appreciate the drama that's taken place with somebody running a 60-yard run. You know, you don't have to know anything about football to recognize that that's a dramatic moment. So I think that has a lot to do with the attraction of non-sports fans. When they're in a game and you're seeing one dramatic moment after another in the Chiefs Bill's game. That's what I think brings in the non-football fan.

You don't need to know anything about football to appreciate a guy catching a 60-yard pass on the run and running into the end zone. I get what you're saying. I think every sport has those areas in which you can say that's the part that draws them in. I know what you're saying with respect to a play that plays out over six to seven seconds, athletically, you know, and by the way, the drama then builds in between, you know, the 40 seconds in between plays, just like it does in baseball in between pitches. There's a drama level there that builds. Hockey is nonstop. Like, I think one of the greatest things as a sports fan to watch, and I think one of the most dramatic things, and one of the things that's

nonstop on the edge of your seat, is an overtime NHL playoff game because of the sudden death nature of it. And it can, and so many, it literally, you don't have to wait more than typically 15 seconds for the next opportunity where you think it just almost ended. And then all the sudden it does. Basketball, I mean, the athleticism and the shots and the different things that can happen can be totally wow moments. But I think I understand what you're saying.

I mean, there's also, football takes over this country in terms of numbers, which then sort of manifests itself in on social media. Like, you can be totally oblivious to the fact that this Kansas City Buffalo game is going on. And yet, if you're on your phone and you pay attention to social media, nothing. thing's going to light up anybody's social media like Sunday afternoon did. No NBA game, no NHL game, you know, no, no World Series game, like what happened. Because they're, you know, literally I'm going to guess that probably 60 million plus people were watching that game. The numbers will come out. It's going to be an outrageous number. I mean, the Dallas 49ers wild card game, which wasn't in prime time in the wild card round, drew an average of 41 million viewers, and it peaked it

just over 50 million. So I would guess that the Sunday night game, given how competitive it was, I bet you that this game may have averaged 60 million viewers. It's unbelievable. It really is. I mean, and you know, you know, then the next morning on news talk shows, you know, morning talk shows, it's the news. It's dominant. It's absolutely. Right. Somebody, I don't know who it was, I saw this tweet and I just laughed. it was like after one of the greatest weekends and the history of the NFL playoffs and maybe, you know, arguably the greatest game or greatest finish, you'll turn on ESPN the following morning and they'll be talking about LeBron James.

Somehow. I don't think that's true, by the way. But yeah. So what were your, so give me some of your big takeaways from the weekend. Well, I think the 49ers showed a toughness that I didn't really think about before. You know, I don't think Kyle Shanahan's teams are necessarily associated with being tough, physical on defense. And they lost their defensive coordinator, didn't they? He wound up getting hired by the jet, right?

He saw us in New York, yes. But, I mean, that's the one thing I was impressed with the forecast. I mean, it was not a good game necessarily. You know, it was a close game. But, I mean, and neither team played particularly well offensively. But the 49ers just toughed it out. You know, and I was impressed with that on the 49ers game. I was disappointed that Brady didn't do it again.

Okay. I think it would have made for a great story if Brady had managed to pull off another upset again. I mean, when you're sitting there watching the game with somebody who doesn't know football, and you explained to them that he was losing the Super Bowl 28 to 3 and wound up winning it, you know, they're just their jaw drops. Right. You know, they can't believe something like that. So, you know, I was kind of disappointed that Brady didn't win, just for the sake of the storyline.

And as far as the, you know, the big game, the Chiefs and the Bills, I couldn't believe all the whining about the overtime rule after the game. It just was, it was like, like, you know, we were having a nice, friendly, man-reliven. event and then all these all these whiners jumped into it and say I want the ball I want the ball you know they had the ball so I want the ball God almighty so that's actually a good segue into something that I want to talk about and we'll do it right here I wasn't planning on doing it and that is the overtime rule because I've rethought my position from yesterday but Let me back up real quickly. Where does Chiefs bills 42-36 overtime, you know, in 2022 postseason, where is that for you?

You and I have both watched a lot of NFL playoff games over the years. Where does, do you, did you even think about it in terms of, you know, this is the greatest I've ever seen or it wasn't as great as, you know, because you do that a lot of times. And so do why. It's like, sorry, but do you remember. this because I was there or whatever. But where does it rank? It has to rank, I think, probably top five. I mean, everything else is subjective. You can't call it the greatest game ever. I mean, the greatest game I ever saw involved the Chiefs. It was the Chiefs and the Dolphins,

the 1971 Divisional Round game that went to overtime. Christmas Day, 1971. And the Dolphins won 2724. Longest game in NFL history still today. Yeah, that's the greatest game I ever saw, and I watched it when it was happening. I'm not going to argue with you if you say that this is a top five game, but don't sit there and say, like the world started yesterday, that's the greatest game ever. That's my only argument with it. You can only argue for where it fits among the greatest games ever. That would be my opinion. So, I mean, I think the 71 Dolphins Chiefs is my greatest game.

So, I mean, it seems like, and I think I mentioned this with Scott yesterday because I had Scott on the podcast. I talk about this all the time when we see something great. Like, I understand what we've all become. I don't know if it's a last, you know, decade or two-decade thing, or maybe it's just, my imagination that were so much more prone to hyperbole, you know, based on something that just happened, you know, the recency bias thing. But I said to you two weeks ago that the Chargers Raiders season finale is truly going to go down as one of the most memorable regular season games of all time. And I tried to really, you know, stay medium, as Jim Zorn would say, because I didn't

want to go overboard, but it really was. I mean, I just sat there. and it was jaw-dropping, you know, over that three and a half, almost four-hour period. I think Sunday, and I think I said this yesterday, I think it will certainly be one of the most memorable finishes in NFL history. I mean, we've never seen 25 points scored in the final two minutes of regulation. No. And, you know, the field goal in 13 seconds to get into range and then overtime, et cetera. But for me, and I don't remember the dog. Dolphins Chief's game watching it. It was Christmas Day, 1971. Now, I have watched it,

and I've read about it, and I've seen all of the documentaries, you know, and the various, you know, shows that have been done on that Chief's Dolphin 71 game. It's still the longest game in NFL history. It went deep into the second period. It went seven minutes and 40 seconds into the second overtime. But for me, and I've always felt this way, the Dolphins Chargers game in January of 82 following the 81 season, is the greatest start-to-finish playoff game I've ever watched. It was so compelling from the start to finish because it had the back-and-forth nature,

which I think is a big component or a big part of what makes a great game. The chargers were up 24 to nothing early in the second quarter. And then the dolphins came back. And at the end of the first half, they hit on one of those hook-and-latter plays. Don Strach off the bench. And Tony Nathan ends up being from Duryl Harris on a hook-and-ladder, and it's 24-17. Box stop with six seconds to go. Eight first downs all passing.

What are you going to do? Make a nice four-yard gain, and that's the vision. Hall of Fame goes to Canton. John, what you asked me? He said, what do you do? Would you ever get in a makeup offense? This baby was designed, not today, but several weeks ago. It's in the playbook.

It's a great place by Doreal Harris to hit him on a dead run. It's not something you work on every day. It takes great players to execute it. They made it in an unbelievable moment. And then the dolphins from 24-0-0 down take a 38-31 lead, late into the fourth quarter, but then the Chargers come back and they force overtime. And that game went to a second overtime period with Kellynne Winslow blocking not one, but two field goal attempts after catching 13 balls in the game.

One of the greatest individual performances I've ever watched, the heat, the exhaustion, the physical distance in which those teams went. I think that's the greatest game. to finish that I've ever watched. But Sunday... I can't argue with that, by the way. I mean, that would be my 1A

among the greatest games I ever. So I remember watching that, you know, on TV as it unfolded as well. So that was great. It was absolutely great. But it was it was a phenomenal, phenomenal game.

So your overtime thing. So let me just say that I personally in the aftermath of the game, you know, those are the rules. You know, those are the rules. You know, we know them as NFL fans. And it's not like we haven't debated the overtime rules previously. We have, and a lot of people haven't liked the overtime rules. They've changed over the years.

In 2010, the NFL went to this got-a-score touchdown on the opening drive. But that was only for the post-season. for a few years. You know, the regular season still could end it, ended in sudden death with a field goal, you know, but then in 2012, they moved the overtime rule in the postseason to the regular season. And we've been dealing with this rule primarily,

except for the change in time. Regular season has gone from 15 minutes to 10 minutes. That happened a few years back. But we've been dealing with this, you know, you got to score a touchdown on the opening drive to end the game. to end the game in overtime, if not the other team gets a possession. You know, the whining about it in the moment is ridiculous. We've known what the rule was.

The bills and the chiefs knew what the rules were, and those were the rules. However, my position actually over the last 24 hours has changed on overtime, because I think with Scott yesterday, essentially said, yeah, I don't need it to change. I don't want it to change. I don't need it to change. If it does change, I'm okay with it. But now I want it to change. I did a lot of thinking about this yesterday, and I had several conversations about this yesterday,

and I learned something that I didn't know. So Lewis Riddick tweeted something out yesterday. He tweeted out, of the 163 overtime games, regular season, and playoffs, under the current overtime rules, only 35 of the 163 were decided by touchdowns on the first possession of overtime. And then he wrote 21 and a half percent. Exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point, four exclamation points from old Lewis Riddick. He writes, don't tell me coin flips are deciding games in overtime. Strategy and execution does. And then four more exclamation points. And you know, the argument, by the way, of just stop them,

not a bad argument. You know, if you don't like that they can, you know, you can lose the coin toss and they can go down the field and score a touchdown and you won't get a chance on offense, well, just stop them. Okay, that's not a bad argument. But here's what Lewis Riddick did not include in his tweet. And I didn't know either until somebody brought my attention to it. In the playoffs, since the new overtime rule went into effect. Of the 12 games now that have gone to overtime with these overtime rules in effect, 11 of the 12 have been won by the team that won the coin toss. That ain't 21.5%.

And so the reason you would ask is, well, why? Why is the percentage so much different in the postseason? I don't know why, and nobody explains it, but here's a guess for me, just a guess. the best teams and the best quarterbacks are playing in the postseason. I mean, more often than not, that's what it is. I mean, was there any doubt on Sunday night that whoever won that coin toss and got the ball

had a pretty damn good chance based on what we had just witnessed over the final two minutes of regulation of winning that game on the opening drive? And so I also started to think in addition to the numbers being completely lopsided in postseason games. 11 of 12 now that won the coin toss, won the game. Now, let me point out, not all 11 won the game on the opening drive.

Yes, yes. Seven of the 11, though, won the game on the opening drive. In 2011, it was a T-Boe to Demarius Thomas to beat the Steelers. That would not be an example of a great quarterback, but still, that was the opening drive touchdown. Russell Wilson did it against the Packers touchdown. Carson Palmer and Larry Fitzgerald did it against the Packers as well in a divisional round game. Brady did it in the Super Bowl. Brady did it against the Chiefs.

Cousins did it. Kirk Cousins did it against the Saints in the wild card round two years ago. They won the toss. He hit Thielen on a bomb and then hit Kyle Ruins. Rudolph for the game winner. And then on Sunday, Pat Mahomes did it. So of the 11 coin toss winners of the 12 overtime playoff games that won the game, all right? Um, you, seven of the 11 won with a touchdown on the opening drive. That's a lot. You know, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a hefty percentage. The other thing, but it's not 10 out of 11. No, but, but, but,

But, okay, well, look, here's the other part of it. Yeah, but seven out of 11 is a big number. It's a big number. I mean, that is, it basically says you lose the coin toss, you're done. And by the way, the 11 out of 12 also says, you lose the coin toss, you're done. Because we've only had three instances where the coin toss winner won the game, but not on the first drive. In part because they drove it and then they were able to punt somebody deep into back. field position too. You know, that helps as a coin toss winner. But the other thing, too, Tommy,

that changes when you don't have, when you have to avoid one thing as the defensive team on the opening drive of overtime. Your strategy can change. I'm not suggesting it does, but it's logical that it does. And that is, we can't give up anything big. You know, we can give up plays underneath. We can give them, you know, chunks of the field. We can't give up the big play. It's the only way we lose. If they drive down and kick a field goal, we're good. And so defensively, your strategy now can change. So I now would like to see the overtime rule changed. And Bill Barnwell, you know, from ESPN.com, wrote extensively about this. And actually, there were things about what he wrote. I didn't know about

all of these different proposals that have been out there for a couple of years. Some of them are crazy. Did you know that the Eagles, I'm sorry, the Ravens last year, proposed the following to change the overtime rule. They proposed that overtime is decided. The overtime kickoff is eliminated. You eliminate the kickoff. and the coin flip winner gets to choose either taking the ball or the yard line in which the other team will start with the ball.

Now, this to me is gimmicky. I'm glad the NFL kind of laughed it off and didn't adopt it. But, I mean, in that Sunday game, what you would have had if that were the rule, right, the coin toss. winner would have taken the ball and then the other team would have said, yeah, from the one yard line, that's where you're going to take it from. You know? And so, but anyway, there are several, there have been several proposals, including just guaranteeing that another team, if the other team scores a touchdown, gets a possession.

There's a proposal out there that apparently some people like, which is playing to eight points, the first team to get to eight points, which means to end the game with a touchdown on the opening drive, you'd have to go for two. Instead of kicking the extra point, you'd have to go for two to end the game. If you kick the extra point, the other team would get it. If you missed the two point conversion, the other team would get it and then have a chance to win with a touchdown and an extra point. But to me, the easiest thing to do, it's so easy. Just play a 15 minute over period to its completion. Just play it. Play 15 minutes and whatever the scores at the end of the 15 minutes, that's your final score. That's football on a hundred-yard field with every rule that you

play with in the fourth quarter with no strategy changes that are different from the end of a fourth quarter. Then you go to a second. Oh, then you go to a second. Okay. Yeah, then you go to a second 15 minute overtime. Or if you, you know, then, you know, safety is the, you know, the ultimate concern, which is why they went from 15 to 10 in the regular season. You're still at 15 in the playoffs. But, you know, if you want to make the second overtime something that resembles what we have now, okay, because it's so, you know, the chances of that are slim and none. But I would just make it another 15-minute overtime period.

For the people that would complain about the safety, whether it's the players union or the league, we've had 12 overtime games in the postseason since the new rules went into into effect in 2010. So basically 12 and 12 years. So an average of one overtime game per year. So one game you're going to play a 15 minute extra period. Come on, people. That's what they should do.

And it shouldn't be 10 minutes, and it shouldn't be 7.5 minutes, and it shouldn't be 12. 15 minute overtime and play the game like we've been watching the game with special teams, with strategy that reflects fourth quarter game-ending strategy. Have the two-minute warning. Give teams additional timeouts, which they do anyway.

It's two extra timeouts, but give them three extra timeouts. And let's play it out. To me, that's the easiest thing. By the way, I would do that in the regular season too. But I don't think they will do that ever. I think the regular season, you know, is more because there's so many more games, you know, safety becomes much more of an issue. but for an average of one overtime a game a year in the postseason, play it out that way.

I'm in favor of that now. I'm very much in favor of that. And I think, by the way, my gut tells me they're going to change to something that won't change the regular season, even though I think the regular season should be changed. Even if they keep the same rules, it should be a 15-minute overtime, not a 10-minute overtime. But I think they're going to make a change in this off-season to something that, gives, you know, that ensures that a game like that doesn't end again without the other team getting the ball.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. I'd be fine with that. You know, just go ahead and play another period. I'd be okay if it was a 10-minute overtime because, let's face it, hockey, during a regular season, they don't play full 20-minute periods in overtime. you know well it's three on three and it's five minutes that's true that's true i mean in the playoff no in the playoffs it's regular hockey you you you it's but except it's sudden death yes it is yes it is sudden death i'd have no problem uh if if they changed it to that it's just

that i mean to me uh the whining about not getting the ball back and to accommodate that situation in most of the recommendations to me is just the final white flag of defense in the NFL. You know, I mean, really, I mean, we've already given up so much as it is. It's the final acknowledgement that defense doesn't matter. And I don't want to do that. Well, I don't. Defense should matter. It definitely should matter. I mean, I, and I, and God, I mean, I think some of my favorite games in NFL history have been some of the lowest scoring games. I've cited this game several times in the past. It wasn't an overtime game.

But one of my all-time favorite NFL games was Giants 15-49ers-13 in the NFC championship game in 1990 when the Giants with Ha Stettler went on and won the Super Bowl in January of 91. I mean, that game, Matt Barr with five field goals, just one of the more physical. I mean, you don't even get games like that. that much anymore because of the rules, but I love games like that. My one issue with limiting the time is the same issue I have in the regular season. And if you go to 10 minutes, the problem with that is you can definitely have a team. We saw it on Sunday with both of these teams, as explosive as they are. Their first two drives of the game were like seven and a half minutes and six and a half minutes. So if you take the kickoff as the team that won the,

the toss and you've got one of those super long seven and a half minute drives, then you're not really giving the other team. You're giving the other team a chance with the ball, but they're in a different position with the ball. And you can say, well, stop them before seven and a half minutes. But I just would rather see 15 minutes so you have legitimate fair. Okay, if you go down, whether it's a short drive, long drive, I'm going to have the ball on offense with a an adequate amount of time to match you. And by the way, maybe even beat you with two more drives. Who knows?

You know, the other thing, by the way, and somebody, a friend of mine brought this to my attention after my radio show this morning when I mentioned this, he said, the one thing, he goes, I agree with you. He goes, I would do just the 15 minute. It's the cleanest. It keeps everything. You know, the NFL will never do what college football has done, which is turn it into a carnival, you know, shooting gallery thing. They're not going to do that. This is the NFL.

College football is going to change what they did last year. The Illinois Penn State game was a mockery of football, the nine-over-time game where you're just running two-point plays. Now, I'm sure people under the age of 30 loved it, but if you're a traditionalist, you don't even have to be a traditionalist. If you're a longtime football fan, that was laughable. I mean, that was truly like, you know, put-put-put golf into the clown's nose to try to win the prize. It was stupid. The NFL will never do that. But my friend made one point, he's like, you know, if you play a full overtime period,

it can make a great game and very anticlimatically because, you know, let's just say the team that wins a toss goes down and scores. And so it went into overtime at 24, 24, now it's 31, 24. Then the other team turns it over and it's a pick six and now it's 38 to 24. And then all of a sudden, you know, they're going for a fourth down, they miss, and then they score again, and it's 45, like you could end up with some of those games being blowouts in overtime. That's true. And it would end very anticlimatically compared to the way overtime ends now. But I don't care.

I would put up with the games that could end up ending, you know, differently than they ended in regulation from a dramatic standpoint. Okay. Okay. Like I said, I'm fine with that. Okay. What I wasn't fine with was the post-game whining on social media. I mean, it was almost childish in their reaction. Well, that's it. I want to see Josh Allen get the ball now. You know, what are you doing to me here? Well, I think. It was just way out of bounds.

Well, you know, Tommy, what happens to this kind of brings it full circle from the beginning part of this conversation. and that is when a lot of people that don't watch a lot of football are all the sudden drawn into this drama, this reality show, you know, unexpectedly, it's like they don't know the rules. And they're like, wait a minute, I don't understand. Why isn't the guy that were number 17 that did all those plays just 20 minutes ago? Why doesn't he get a chance? You know, so you get a lot of that. Now, what did you, while you were watching it unfold and taking away any financial interest, you might. may have had. Who did you want to win that game? Buffalo. So did I. But I did have, so I went

0 and 3 on the smell test. I still have a chance to get back to 500, but I gave out the two unders on the Sunday games, and I gave out Tampa. I also said, I love the unders in the first two games of the weekend, and I like Kansas City. So I gave out three liens, all of which came through, but don't count on my record. And the three official picks were all losers. But the two unders were home runs. I mean, Tampa's down 27, 13. That's easily a game, 27 to 6.

But even at 27 to 20, if the Rams get a first down, the total was 48, games over. But Acres fumbles, and here we are at 27, 27. That game goes over. And then the bills had to convert a fourth and 13 at 20 when it was 26, 21, or that game would have gone under, which is why boys,

and girls gambling, you know, as one of my good friends, Joe Preston always says when we're in Vegas, you know, Vegas, it ain't for everybody. And it's not. But yeah, I mean, I did play the under and I played Kansas City, but there was part of me, look, I was rooting for Kansas City to win my bet, but there was part of me that really understood that if Buffalo wins this game and they get to host the AFC title game, that would be kind of cool. Yes. And God. I mean, look, I got to think life is pretty hard in Buffalo.

So I really wanted it for them. I mean, it can't be easy living in Buffalo. I'm not downgrading Buffalo. I've been there. It can't be an easy place to live. That's all. They got great wings, Tommy. They got great wings.

But let me just, you know, as you were saying that, okay? Here we go. Today, scattered snow showers high of 22. Tonight, scattered flurries low of 2 degrees. Tomorrow it's going to be sunny with a high of 12. Tomorrow night, chance of snow low of 7. And then it just keeps going. Here's the most encouraging part of the extended forecast for Buffalo, New York.

Next Monday, cloudy and 25. Yeah, that's a tough life. So I was pulling for them. Look, I mean, Mahomes is great. And, I mean, we may be splitting hairs here, although I don't think so. I mean, Josh Allen put that team on his shoulders. Well, he's great. He's great.

You know, I mean, he just did it. I mean, Mahomes does it, too, but he's got Tyree Kill. He's got Kelsey. And I know, you know, they've got Stefan Diggs, Josh Allen. It just seemed like Josh Allen was willing that team to win. It was, so this will, thank you again. This will get us into our next topic because I think that game and the performances by those two quarterbacks in that game specifically made a lot of people fans, but more importantly, front offices around the league rethink every.

when it comes to the quarterback position. I want to get to that next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. It really helps us. Please rate us and review us if you haven't done that, especially on Apple and Spotify. I wanted to mention one quick thing because I don't know that I mentioned it yesterday on the podcast. I'm supposed to put out, you know, semi-regular Twitter polls for the radio show, which are sponsored by my good friends at Window Nation. They got a great deal going on right now at Window Nation.

Go to Window Nation.com or call them at 86690 Nation. Buy two, get too free. No money down. No down payments, no interest for two full years. In the wake of the quarterbacking display that Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow and Matt Stafford, et cetera, you know, put on over the weekend. I just put out a poll that was intended to be very tongue-in-cheek, and I thought people would get it. But I would say the majority didn't get it.

I just wrote the poll was the off-season priority for the Washington football team should be. Another wide receiver was one option, Tommy. middle linebacker was a second option. The third option was a starting guard with offensive line depth, and then I had other. I got it. I saw it. I guess.

I got it. But it certainly didn't have, I thought most people would, I thought, you know, the other category would just say 99.9%. And everybody would be saying, ah, funny, you didn't put quarterback in there. But no, most people were like, dude, you forgot. quarterback. I didn't forget quarterback. It was a tongue firmly placed in cheek thing that just for whatever

reason didn't work. It's funny. My son, my youngest son goes, Dad, was that poll? Are you trolling people with that pole? Are you serious? Like, he wasn't exactly sure. And then he's like, and I said, no, I was totally tongue in cheek trolling. And he's like, yeah, I thought so. But,

a bunch of my friends called and said, your dad forgot to put quarterback in there. So look, what we saw this weekend, especially with Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes, I was thinking about this, and I talked a little bit about it on the show this morning on radio because we were talking a lot about Aaron Rogers. Let me just first say this on Aaron Rogers. If he is available and if he actually wasn't opposed to playing in Washington, I would go all in on Aaron Rogers. My feeling isn't any different that it was a year ago.

There's nothing that I saw Saturday night that would change my mind. Nothing. If it costs me three ones and Chase Young, count me the F in. All right? I mean, Aaron Rogers is. a two-time is going to be a two-time reigning MVP. And for those of you that think he shits the bed in the postseason, and he chokes in the post-season, and he folds like a cheap suit in the postseason,

you're out of your mind. That just isn't true. He did not do enough on Saturday night. That's the game more than any other, and it's the most recent, so I understand that, where you're like, oh, my God, He lost at home to the 49ers, and he only put 10 points up on the board. And he wasn't good. The truly elite quarterbacks elevate their team, and they should have won the game.

He's an elite quarterback people, all right? And he hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2011. I understand that. And he's played in a lot of NFC championship games since then, and they haven't gotten through. But if you go back, Saturday night was the only loss, really. that you can have that feeling, oh my God, Aaron Rogers didn't get it done because at almost every turn he's gotten it done. And if he didn't, it was because his team was playing a favored team that was just better, period. Now, if you want to say Tampa wasn't better last year, well, cover Scotty Miller at the end of the half

when, you know, it's a Hail Mary thing and Brady finds Miller wide open. That was, that loss was not on Aaron Rogers. Coach took the ball out of his hands at the end of the game. All right? They have lost games after he threw a Hail Mary and he never touched the ball in overtime against Arizona. After he had an incredible game at Seattle and they recovered an onside kick to Seahawks did and he never touched the ball in overtime.

You're just, you don't tell me that Aaron Rogers, if you want to make the case that Aaron Rogers, you think at 38 years old, that he's now going to hit the wall and start to decline, which is why you would not want him for a hefty price? Well, I would just say to you, well, what evidence did he give you this year that he's in decline? Because he's going to win his second straight MVP. But that's a better argument than he can't get it done in the postseason.

Do you know, Peyton Manning couldn't get it done forever in the postseason? Peyton Manning actually only had one Super Bowl and had a losing playoff record and had a neck injury at 37 years old and then had one of the greatest seasons in the history of seasons and lost in the playoffs again in 2012. And then finally at the end of his career, you know, ended up winning the Super Bowl with Denver when he wasn't as much of a part of it,

but they continued to get there. He got him to a Super Bowl, lost to a much better Seattle team, you know, that particular year. But anyway, I digress because I'm all in on. Aaron Rogers, he ain't coming here. I mean, that ain't happening. But I'm just, for those of you that actually have this thought that you wouldn't do Aaron Rogers now after watching them on Saturday night, I think you need your head examined.

Let me just say this. Okay. And I tweeted this out about an hour after the final playoff game to give everyone sufficient time to basically wind down. You know, the NFL playoffs is the annual exercise. for Washington football fans of showing how far they really have to go

to become this. Yeah. You know? I mean, really, I mean, it's always the stark interest. If you watch, if you watch the Washington football games

closely throughout the season, and then you watch the NFL playoffs, sometimes it's like you're not even watching the same game. And this is an annual exercise. and that's what this is. Look, and I'm curious about the Aaron Rogers debate, because I would say to Washington fans, wouldn't you rather argue about losing the NFC championship game

than argue whether Kare Heineke should be your starting quarterback or not? It's insane. It's insane. I just don't. It really is. Wouldn't your disappointment rather be, We lost another NFC title game. Yeah, I mean, they didn't get back to the championship game this year, but I think everybody understands your point. Yeah.

But of course. And the thing is, is it's not like, okay, it's not like you're going with a quarterback that can't do it. Whether he does it or doesn't do it, time would only tell. But it's not like you can't do it. I mean, the guy's been, you know, a little bit snake bit. His teams have been a little bit snake bit in the postseason in certain games. I mean, he threw a Hail Mary to Jeff Janice in Arizona, and he never touched the ball in overtime.

Seattle recovered an onside kick when that game was over, and he was about to go back to a Super Bowl. I mean, last year, the head coach took the ball out of his hands, you know, at the end of the game and a five-point loss to, by the way, Tom Brady and the Buccaneers. But anyway, this is what I wanted to say, because it dovetails off what you're talking about. I don't think it's just Washington after Sunday night, you know, or the really bad franchises that say, oh, my God, we're never going to be that. I think it's a lot of teams. Tommy, I think the performance from Josh Allen and from Patrick Mahomes, the eye-popping performance by both of them. And by the way, just recently, you know, in addition to Josh Allen and Pat Mahomes in the AFC,

You've got Justin Herbert. You've got Joe Burrow. You know, you still have Aaron Rogers playing at a super high level. You've got Matt Stafford, who finally got on a good team that looks more and more like an elite quarterback, although I don't put him in that class with what Mahomes and Allen did. The thinking, any front office that is thought, as Ron Rivera said last year when they didn't get Stafford, it was amazing how quickly he turned to, we're just going to build it from the inside out. we're not going to overspend.

We're not going to mortgage our future. We're going to then go get the quarterback after we've got. No, no, no, no. That's all bullshit. And you can't do it. That's not going to work. You saw on Sunday night two guys, and they're not the only two in the league right now,

there's a handful of them. I throw Lamar Jackson into that conversation when he's healthy. And, you know, he plays it differently. Kyler Murray plays it differently. But they played at such an outrageous. outrageous level that if you don't have one of those, you basically, what are you doing? And so, well, what if, what if Kyle Shanahan and Jimmy Garoppolo wind up winning the Super ball?

I mean, you don't put Jimmy Garoppolo in that class, obviously. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And in fact, I'm wondering if, like, if they lose Sunday or if they beat Matt Stafford and the Rams and lose to, you know, Pat Mahomes or Joe Bowms. Burrow in the Super Bowl, which would be the second loss in the Super Bowl, I'm wondering if he would say the same thing, like, I got to go get one of them too. Now, maybe Trey Lance is that. But basically, he's already said that. He already admitted that, that, you know, you can't win it without Garapolo. You can't win it with Garoppolo. Excuse me. You got, you got, you got to, you got to aim higher.

Look, here's my point. My point is, I think front offices all around the league, if they were predisposed to thinking, you know, if we get a really good quarterback, you know, Matt Stafford, you know, Dak Prescott, you know, on the good level of a Kirk Cousins or a Derek Carr, and we really build around him, we can make a deep run. You know, we can do that. You know, Ryan Tannehill, he's not an elite quarterback, but he's a, you know, when he plays at a good level, he's a top half of the league's quarterback in the system that we like to run. But I think those teams are even checking themselves saying, what are we doing here? Like we just have to keep trying to get one of these guys.

Because Tommy, look, there are the examples, obviously, of Garoppolo making a Super Bowl, Jared Goff making a Super Bowl recently, Nick Foles winning the Super Bowl, okay? There are those examples. But I think what you saw Sunday night is basically that's what you have to strive for, because that's going to keep you in contention to be a contender for the Super Bowl year and year out over a long period of time. The other way you can hit, you know, when you have a tremendous coaching staff and a head coach like Kyle Shanahan, who's propping Garoppolo up with an incredible run game and an incredible defense, you can win playoff games. You can maybe even get to a Super Bowl.

And who knows? Maybe they'll win it. I don't think they will, but maybe they can because they are a tough, hard-nosed team. But that's not the way it's going to happen the significant majority of the time. No, it's not. So it made me think of like two things. One, if you don't have one of those, you better be thinking about the best way to try to get one of those. And if that's in the off-season, you've got to take every opportunity to swing big for Aaron Rogers, Russell Wilson, and Deshawn Watson.

But then it led me to thinking about the draft. The draft is always one of those things where when you're talking about quarterbacks, we know what a long-shot crapshoot business it is. When you land on one that ends up being Pat Mahomes, it's like a lottery ticket. It's a winning lottery ticket. It's a long shot, though. But I think you have to rethink your position on what you're drafting.

Like Mack Jones would not be in the conversation for me anymore, a guy like Mac Jones. I would be going for the guy with the biggest ceiling. I wouldn't care how low the floor was. Because I want the superstar. And so when I'm evaluating these quarterbacks, Kenny Pickett, Matt Corral, Carson Strong, Malik Willis, et cetera, et cetera this year.

I'm not taking the guy that's the safest or the most ready or whatever. I'm taking the guy with the biggest. upside. I may fail miserably, but I'm taking the guy that could end up looking like one of the two guys we saw Sunday night. I don't want to end up. Josh Allen, Josh Allen fits that category when he came out of Wyoming. People didn't think he'd ever be able to throw an NFL complete NFL passes more than 50%. He was not considered a good pass. He had a low floor. You're right. He had one of those floors that people said he's not an you're a passer. Look at his percentages. I will remind everybody, and most people listening, you know, know this. Cooley said, you guys are insane. He doesn't have anything. Look at the way

he throws the ball. Look at his movement. This guy's going to be a star. And by the way, Buffalo clearly felt the same way. They took him with the seventh pick overall. And who knows how much further he would have gone. Look, Justin Herbert had a lot of the questions of leadership and stuff. I mean, the physical stuff wasn't questioned. But I guess my point is, is for like Washington. I'm not, like, now after watching Sunday night, I think some front offices will say, we're not taking Mac Jones, you know,

and whoever the Mac Jones equivalent is, we're not taking Mac Jones. Okay, he can provide something, but we need to end up with a chance at what we saw Sunday night, or we don't have a chance. By the way, I would also say, especially in the AFC right now,

with Herbert and Burrow and Allen and Mahomes and Jackson. My God. Like if you're an AFC team, like if you're Denver, you better get Aaron Rogers. I mean, forget it. You got no shot. If you're indie, you got to get, you know, Aaron Rogers. You know, hell, if you're 10. If you're Washington, so if you're Washington.

Yeah. And let's do a reality check here. You're not going to get Aaron Rogers. You're not going to get Russell Wilson. And you're not going to be foolish enough to trade for Deshawn Watson while your owner is testifying before Congress in congressional hearings about sexual harassment. I don't know what the downside would be. I mean, again, how much lower could they go?

We're talking about a new, no, we're talking about a new level of downside. I don't know if we are. When the owner of your football team is brought up. committee on Capitol Hill. God, I hope you see that. With cameras everywhere, testifying. Okay, this is what they want.

That's what they want. They want Goodell up there, and they want Dan Snyder up there. Anyway, let's say your trade, your reality trade level, it's Mitch Trubisky type. No.

You still got a draft. No? No, that's my point. Fuck Trubisky and Carr and Tyrod Taylor and Marcus Marriota. What's the point of that? If you can't get any of the elite guys in a trade, you just as soon stick with Taylor Heineke and then draft the guy you want. No. What I'm saying, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, um, let me state it

better. What I'm saying is I am not, I am going big or going or, or, or, or, or, or, or, going halfway home. I'm going big in that, I'm going for one of the big three, which I agree with you, I don't think any of the three are going to ultimately be available. And so now I'm going into that draft. And all I am thinking about is who has the highest floor? Who has the highest ceiling? I don't care about the floor and how low it is. I'm going for the home run.

You're doing what I'm saying is you don't make the trade for a quarterback that's not one at a top three. And then you definitely draft a quarterback. I'm going for the guy with the highest ceiling in the draft. And by the way, I might trade back. If I think there are two guys with super high ceilings, I might trade back into the end of the first to take the other guy. But you're still looking at Taylor Heineke as your quarterback. And by the way, from a business standpoint,

I can certainly, I think, believe that they can't trot Taylor Heineke out there next year with a new name and the whole thing. So what I'm saying is at that point, I might sign a very, cheap, inexpensive veteran option, you know, a Marcus Marriota or a Tyrod Taylor that I believe is a better option than Heineke. If the guy or the guys I draft, if that ceiling isn't, you know, is there, but we kind of aren't ready to go reaching for it quite yet. But my big, my overarching point here is you've just got, you've got to keep going for what we saw Sunday night or what's

the point. Like trading for Jimmy Garapolo, what is that going to give you? You know, eight wins instead of seven? I mean, trading for Derek Carr, what's that going to get you? Is it going to get you to nine and eight in a wild card birth? You know, it's just, look, if I were, you know, Tennessee, if I were teams, especially in the AFC, I mean, even Tannahill, I'd be thinking about how do I get somebody like what I saw Sunday night? I can't beat these teams. with Ryan Tannahill. You know, I'm sure Jacksonville's believing at some point that Trevor Lawrence or, you know, maybe the Jets with their young guy.

But Cleveland's got to be thinking, we can't, we can't beat these teams with Baker Mayfield. If you're indie, we can't beat these teams with Carson Wentz. They got to be thinking about how they land on Rogers, Watson, Wilson, or they strike, you know, a lucky hit. the draft by drafting the guy with the highest ceiling. That's my big takeaway is I'm going for the guy with the highest ceiling now in the draft. I don't care about how low the floor is. And I am swinging so big and so hard at the guys that can play the way those guys played on Sunday night. And there's only three of them in terms of veterans available. You know, Wilson, Rogers, and Watson are the only three. Car isn't that guy. Garoppolo's not that guy. Trebisky's not that guy. Kurt Cousins

isn't that guy. And I'm talking about guys that might be available. I mean, if I'm a team like the Eagles after watching the other night, I'm going for Deshawn Watson or Aaron Rogers or Russell Wilson with all the draft choices they have. I mean, Jalen Hertz, I like Jalen Hertz. He's better than I think most people thought he would be. Didn't play well in the playoff game, but he was hurt, as it turns out, had a bum ankle. But you got to be, I think the other night was not a game changer for a lot of teams that were already thinking that way. But I bet you there were a lot of teams, especially in the AFC, that said, what are we doing here? We don't have a choice if we're Denver. We have to get Aaron Rogers. We have to. Or we're playing for a 500 record.

So if you're Washington, would you draft two quarterbacks if you have to? If you felt you had a chance to take a risk on guys like that? Definitely. Especially given how cheap they are. I mean, quarterback, you know, draft choices in rookie deals are so inexpensive. I mean, the biggest risk is the pick and what you passed over to take, you know, the quarterback. But that's the most important position. So I'm taking, look, there are a lot of people that are evaluating these quarterbacks in this draft and saying it's a horrible draft.

and if none of the guys that I evaluate have a big ceiling, then I don't know what I'm going to do because you don't want to take a guy with a high floor or low ceiling. That's not the way to go anymore. You know, it's just not the way to go. I mean, that can provide you with, you know, a stable franchise, top half of the league guy. You're going to win eight, nine games, sometimes 10 or 11,

like if you're Tennessee and win some divisions. Well, maybe that should be the goal for this team. Well, you know what? This team is different than everybody else. I'm just telling you what I think. You know, front offices watch that game. Fans watch that game and said, oh, my God, because the performances were so outrageously off the charts, brilliant, and you're looking at these guys in their age,

and you're thinking, this is the future. Now, it's hard to find them. But, you know, they're going to be seven, eight, nine teams, maybe 10 that have guys like this over the next 10 years. years and they're going to win all the games. And if I don't have one of them, I'm not going to win all the games. I'm going to be doing what best case, best case, what Tennessee's been doing here the last couple of years. That's my best, that's my big upside.

I guess you could say what San Francisco has done. But man, those are- I can't argue with it. I can't argue with it. It shows a level of vision. I kind of like it. But for this team, for your team, I think you have to be satisfied with being respectable. Look, I don't know.

For not being embarrassing. Can I just tell you something as I said something this morning on radio? I think I've said it before here, but a lot of people responded to me. Favorably more so, you know, people my age are, you know, older, longer term fans. But I just said, you know, we're basically eight days away from this 2-2-22. I just don't think that that organization has any. any clue as to how completely jarring and the negative reaction to this thing or the complete and utter apathetic reaction to this thing from so many of the fans out there. I think it's going to

feel like the end. They are touting this is a new beginning. And I think for a large percentage of people who were fans or still are barely fans, it's going to end it. Boom, done. Because it'll be for the first time since July of 2020, it'll be the first time that they realize, oh my God, it's not my team anymore. It's a totally different team.

Because you've, you know, over the last two seasons, Washington football team, colors are the same. I know the colors are still going to the same. The uniforms for the most part with the exception of the helmet look the same. you know, it's going to, it's going to, it's going to, it's going to be a lead weight. It's going to. I think it will. I think, I think, I think, I think you're right.

I think it will. What I find curious is this whole narrative of turning up, turning the page, a new start. I mean, does that mean there'll be no more talk about Joe Gibbs than it's three Super Bowls? Do they leave that behind, too? Will they take the Super Bowl trophies at the parking lot of events? they're going to have at FedEx Field and melt them down and mold a giant commander for their new, for their new team? What are the trophies made out of?

Are they gold? Oh, I don't know. I was going to say melt it down and use it to pay off all the victims of all the lawsuits you're going to have to settle. I mean, you know, it's just, it's just, I mean, I always find this. Look, and Bruce Boutre will finally figure this out with the capitals. When you sign on for this team, you sign on for the good and the bad. You can't just say, you know, we're not going to live in the past. The past is part of who you are.

The three Super Bowl trophies and the 20 years of embarrassment, it's all part of every time you put on that uniform, when you coach, you inherit all of it. Or none of it. Either all of it or none of it. the fan well i think that will stay a part of this franchise's history they're not going to they're not going to ignore well of course they will but my point is it's hypocritical to say we're not going to live in the past and then you know talk about joe gids all the time i think when they say we're not

going to live in the past would be more like the last 22 years of past i know um it would be nice not to live um under those you know uh conditions uh I just, I think, so there are people that are excited about 2-22. God bless you, all right, you know, and if you've been sticking with this team throughout and you haven't been impacted, like somebody like me, you know, one of the all-time, you know, die-hards like many of you, it was such an important part, probably an outsized and inappropriate part of my life for so long. But I just feel so differently now.

And, you know, some of that could be chalked up to getting older and maybe it would have happened anyway. But really, 95% of it can be chalked up to what this owner has done over the last 22 years. It's the losing and it's the embarrassing behavior and the insulting, etc. It's just, it's, you know, it's different. I don't have the same level of passion for this team anymore. Not at all. I mean, we already talked about this last week when I said, I couldn't even, you know, summon up enough energy to root against the cowboys in the playoffs. Like, who gives a shit?

I mean, most people out there that were saying that weren't even going to get your own games. I mean, without the cowboy fans, you wouldn't have had a full stadium at any point this year. But I think when we get to 2222, there's a very large percentage of people who were either already feeling the way I was, already checked out, or have sort of been, you know, following it and into it, but are a little bit queues. easy as to how they're going to feel. And those people are in for a big, rude slap in the face because it will be jarring. It'll be for the first time we lost our team. We lost everything about our team. This is the brand connection, the emotional brand connection that happens in any consumer product. And this one especially that has been around for 80-something years. The attachment you had was a lot to things that weren't even things that happened on the field. And when they say

Washington commanders, and the uniform has the same colors, but it's a different looking uniform, and the helmet's a little bit different. And they start with all of these, you know, no-nuffings that are out there now that have been there for five minutes, start talking about, you know, new songs, new fight songs, and they start, you know, asking for recommendations for new fight songs and new things that can be attached to the new thing. And they name another part of the stadium after Sean Taylor, you guys are going to be out permanently. That will be it.

That'll be the nail in the coffin. I feel it coming, Tommy. I swear, I feel it coming. For a lot of people... Well, you know, I mean, when they got rid of Redskins, no matter what your position was on the name, and I wrote a call about this. you know, and I think some fans may feel this way, maybe more feel the way you do.

I think a lot of fans feel they lost their team a long time ago. Yes. And, I mean, they really, they have not been the team that you fell in love with for a while. And they have not been the team deserving of your love for quite a while. I think you're right. I don't think there's any doubt about it that a lot of people, were gone on that day. But I also think that those people

with Washington football team and Washington being a big part of the brand and the colors and the uniforms looking the same, we're always within reach. I think the new name and everything else puts them completely out of reach. And I think for the people that have been, okay, whatever,

but it's going to be a complete shock when all of this stuff rolls out. It's going to really hit home. think. I mean, people understand it. They can, they can, you know, project what it's going to be, but I don't think they're going to know until it actually eight days from now gets rolled out. And by the way, I'm not discounting the fact that this team will be targeting a lot of people that don't remember the Super Bowls and, you know, are looking for kind of a new team. It's very much an expansion kind of rollout. I really feel that way, and that's who they're going to be targeting.

people that haven't rooted for the team because they've sucked for so long, and they're going to be able to introduce this team to that group and that demographic as if it is something new. So best of luck with that. Speaking of that, the local television ratings for NFL teams were put out by our good friend John Orrin from Sports Business Journal. I wanted to talk about that and maybe a couple of other things that maybe you haven't gotten to. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Just to let everybody know, tomorrow is the 30-year anniversary of Washington's Super Bowl 26 win over Buffalo.

On the radio show tomorrow morning, I've got Charlie Casserly, who's going to be with me at 7 a.m. Right now, tentatively, Mark Rippin will be a part of the show. Jeff Bostick's going to be on radio with me tomorrow morning at 8. And Frank Herzog, who was obviously part of the most famous and iconic radio booth in D.C. sports history, Frank, Sonny, and Sam. Frank will be with me at 8.30. And we will also have a special guest 91 anniversary related on the podcast tomorrow as well. 30 years ago. Wow. I was there, Tommy. He's there for that superbook. Do I leave that pass behind? Want to leave that past behind?

Want to leave that pass behind? So our friend John Oran from Sports Business Journal, John does such a great job. Has a really good podcast, too, with Andrew Marshand that you can listen to wherever you get a podcast. So he put out in his latest newsletter the regular season local market television ratings for all of the NFL markets. Now, let me just say this because I know you're going to get to it that not everybody watches games on TV anymore.

There are lots of different ways to watch these games, to consume these games. There are a lot of people, young people doing it in different ways where it wouldn't register in the ratings, whatever. But still, we have the local TV ratings. So Washington, the Washington market for the Washington football team, did an average local rating for their 17. games this year of a 16.6. That's not good people. It's not good. But I think it's better than last year. It is barely better. Last year was a 16.5. Right? Yes. But, you know, last year was a weird year. I mean, it was a good year in that they ended up making a run and they ended up playing the postseason. But the COVID year,

like 21 of the 32 NFL markets were up this year from 2020. So if that gives you any sense. So basically two-thirds of the league's teams were up in television ratings. But anyway, 16.6, just to give you an idea before I tell you where it ranks in the league, the 16.6 is basically half of the audience that they would have had on average 10, 12 years ago. I mean, it's been in steady decline for a long time now, as we know. And we've referred to these, you know, hideous local TV ratings, you know, but most of the time we've just been sort of comparing it to what it used to be in this market, you know. And you can basically say roughly without me having the 2010 or the 2012 numbers in front of me,

I guarantee you in 2012, Washington was in the high 20s, low 30s as an average for the year. I can tell you this, the playoff game against Seattle that they had during the RG3 season did a 50 rating locally. 50-50 for that one game. The cowboy game, which got them into the postseason, in a regular season game, did a 42 local rating. So that year, I'm assuming they averaged well over a 30. So they're now at 16.6. So the audience is essentially half of what it was 10 years ago.

That's probably a pretty good estimation. And we've said that they've chased off at least half the fan base, if not more than it. We know where they are in local attendance. They're dead last in attendance. And without the opponent's fans in that stadium, you wouldn't, you know, you wouldn't have had, I think I did the back of the envelope on this, Tommy, that their 51,000 plus paid attendance number, that it was actually, actual average attendance was about 40,000 for games this year. And I estimated that 60% on the season were there to watch Washington. So like 24,000. thousand people basically bought tickets and went to games who were actual redskin fans,

Washington football team fans. Okay. That is, I mean, that's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. And then you factor that with a 16-6 local TV rating. You can see that when I've said to you guys with Tommy or without him that this podcast and all of the discussion about the team, which we all enjoy, it's very much a bubble. I mean, you know, it's, it's, and I, and I, I love the bubble, and I love all of you that are part of it, and I thank God for it. Trust me. But it really is a bubble because half the fan base – now, by the way, half the fan base doesn't mean that they're not listening to this podcast, even if they're not watching the games or going to the games. Not everybody listens to this podcast or the radio show, especially those that listen when Tommy's on.

Not everybody's just listening to Tommy and I together because you're Washington football team fans. We understand that, and we're appreciative of that. Anyway, the point being, they've chased away roughly half of what the fan base was 10 years ago and probably more than half, I would guess. Now, where does it rank 25th? The 16.6 is 25th out of the 32 teams locally. But I want to point out that the markets, the seven that had worse local television ratings. First of all, the worst ratings in the local TV ratings in the league were the Jets and the Giants. Two horrific teams this year in a city, by the way, that even when the Giants and Jets have been really good, they'd never produced the numbers that a Washington or a Dallas or a Boston or when you get smaller market, Green Bay or New Orleans.

They've never produced those numbers. It's New York. Football isn't king in New York necessarily. You know, same in L.A. You know, two of the markets that are behind Washington are the Chargers and the Rams. Well, they're kind of new to their cities for the most part. And it's L.A. Miami, Houston, and Atlanta were the other three teams that had worse local TV ratings.

The best local television ratings in the NFL Buffalo, that place you were referring to earlier. 47.2 was their average local TV ratings. So nearly half of the people with televisions were watching Bill's games. when they were on. Other markets that were outstanding Milwaukee, you know, for the Packers, 41.6 on average. The Saints, 40.9. Kansas City, 45.3. Lots of markets in the 30s and the high 20s. You know, Cincinnati was good this year. Hasn't been a great team. You know, they averaged 28.8 local TV rating, Baltimore to 28. You know, so, you know, Detroit, not a good team. Much better local rating than Washington did a 21. I'm looking for other teams that had

rough year. Chicago rough year, much better than Washington at a 22.2. I mean, Seattle didn't have a good season, a 31.4. Washington really, you know, 25th out of 32 teams, but really bad compared to what it used to be. So anyway, you know, the other thing, too, I always mention this when we have these conversations. I do realize that the 16.6 local television rating for Washington 17 games this year is a much bigger number than any of the other local teams. I do understand that. I mean, the Nats, the Caps, and the Wizards would kill for an average rating of 16.6.

I mean, they're in the low single digits in terms of local television. ratings for regular season games. Right. And to be fair, the Nats play 162 games a year. Yeah, I understand. And the Wizards and the Cats play 82 games a year. But, you know, if you were to eventually, of course, you don't have this opportunity. Actually, I don't know what the Washington Tampa game did last year. I'll ask John one of these days. But like to try to create like the apples to apples, you would do the, you know, a Washington football playoff game or maybe just a Washington

football regular season game against one of those other teams playoff games. And then you get to something more comparable. Anyway, what else did you have for the show today? You said you wanted to mention something. Well, today, this afternoon, probably by the time, probably after the podcast is out, the baseball Hall of Fame is going to announce the results of their 2022 Hall of Fame ballot. and the expectation is that Barry Bonds and Roger Clements, among the other cheaters, will probably miss, again, just fall short,

and that would be their last year of eligibility on the ballot. If Bonds and Clements don't get in, then they're done, and then they have to go to the select committee that, you know, votes on these, and I think there's chances of getting in dramatically declined once other Hall of Famers are voting on their candidacy, because most of the Hall of Famers do not want either of these guys up there with them on a stage at one point. All right. You're a Hall of Fame voter, so tell me who you voted for in your ballot, because you always do.

Okay. You know, I didn't vote for Barry Bonds. I didn't vote for Roger Clemens. I didn't vote for Sammy Sosa. I didn't vote for Manny Ramirez or Alex Rodriguez. I didn't vote for David Ortiz. Now, David Ortiz might get in

because he's beloved and revered. I didn't vote for David Ortiz to be consistent in my position on steroids. David Ortiz's name came up on the 2003 positive test list that was published by the New York Times and not refuted by Major League Baseball. Repeat to everybody that hasn't heard it.

Your stance as a Hall of Fame baseball voter with respect to guys that were even linked in any way, shape, or form to steroids, is? Well, in any way, shape, or form, I mean linked through some kind of legal document or through some kind of internal official document, drug testing. However, in other words, suspicion, I don't vote. vote on suspicion. You know, Mike Piazza was suspected of use of steroids. I voted for him. His name never came up in an investigation, a court hearing, or anything like that. All the guys I vote, or I have not voted for, everyone who I've mentioned, you know,

did have some kind of circumstantial evidence to connect them to steroid use. And so, you know, I don't vote for those guys. People say, well, you know, how do you know? who you've steroids and who did. Maybe a lot of others did. I said, but I know these guys did. Right. I said, you know, I don't know who else did or didn't. But imagine a justice system where we said, well, you can't judge anyone if you don't judge everyone. So who did you vote for?

You get caught? I voted for three guys. I voted for Jeff Kent, who's not going to get in. he usually gets about 30, 35%. He had 800 RBI seasons as a second basement. How many years has he been on the ballot? I don't know. It's been a lot. He may be close to the end. Yeah, right?

Okay. He may be close to the end. I voted for Billy Wagner. How many years you can be on the ballot for 10 years, right? If you're not? 10 years. Okay. Yeah.

If you be on the ballot for 10 years. Jeff Kent. I voted for, Jeff Ken, I voted for Billy Wagner. I think he's the one closer who has not been put in the Hall fame that probably should be put in. I voted for Scott Rowland. That was a change for me. There was Scott Rowland people convinced me that the third basement is probably a borderline hallfamer. How did they convince you?

What did they send you? Well, I went back and I looked at his record. I mean, you know, more closely. No, not to convince him to buy me off kind of thing. You'd be easy to play. Yes, I would be. You know, at 316 home runs, 1,300 RBI. She was a seven-time all-star and eight-time gold glove winner as a third basement.

So I voted for Scott Rowland as my third, and that's it. I voted for three guys. Typically in the past, I've been a very generous earlier you're allowed to vote up to Penn. What did Roland hit for his career? He had 281. Okay. Normally I don't vote 281 hitters. Right.

Into the Hall of Fame unless they've got some other stat that makes them stick out. And his eight goal glove. Does Roland have a shot? Does he make that stick out? His candidacy is rising. If he doesn't get in this time and he probably won't, there's a chance he may get in next year. His candidacy has gone up. So on the, I want to make sure I'm clear.

So I want to make sure I'm clear on this. On the ballot for the final time. Bonds, Clemens, and did you say shilling? Schilling, too. I don't even count him. The guy said he doesn't want to be on the ballot. He came out this year and said he doesn't want the baseball writers to vote for him. So I accommodated him.

I didn't vote for him. When does A-Rod get to the ballot? He's on the ballot this year. He is. And for his first time, so far, you know, there's a guy, I forget the guy's name, he does a great job, of tracking Hall of Fame ballots based on writers who reveal their ballots early. And based on, I think about 50% of the ballots have been revealed at this point through, you know, through the writer's admissions. And A-Rod was trending at about 46%. when Bonds and Clemens first got on a ballot, they trended at like 36, 35%.

Interesting. Interesting. But again, here's what happened. So this is what I mean, right now, bonds and Clemens trend at 77%, and you only need 75% to get in. But everyone knows traditionally it's the half of the ballots that aren't revealed before the results are announced, that torpedo these guys. Most of the time, the ballots that are not revealed

consist of voters who do not vote for these guys, like me. What is, refresh my memory. How many people can you vote for? You can vote for up to 10. Okay. And there have been years where I voted for 10 guys. But just three this year? Yeah.

It's not a great balance. Roland Wagner and Kent. Yes. Yeah, it's not a great ballot. I just pulled up the ballot. No. If you eliminate the steroid guys, it's not a great ballot. Right, because going down the list, obviously, you know, Sosa is still on it, Pettett's still on it, Ramirez is still on it. Yeah. Yeah. Now, listen, just to reiterate,

steroids, even though they didn't test for it, steroids were banned by baseball in 1990. The reason they didn't test for it is the union stopped the efforts by the owners to implement drug testing. It wasn't the owners. It was the players' unit. And the players' union only changed that when they got dragged before Congress during the steroid hearings, and their players decided they didn't want to be embarrassed anymore on national TV on Capitol Hill. That's when the union caved and agreed to stricter drug testing. So steroids have been banned since 91.

Barry Bond is an admitted steroid user. He admitted in grand jury testimony that he used, quote, the cream and the clear, but he claimed he didn't know what they were. Okay. What year? What year? And Roger Clements' name is prominently displayed in the Mitchell report, which unlike the true readers and many of the baseball writers. I have, I have a, call me crazy, but I have a lot. a lot of confidence in a two-time United States Senator who was the guy who founded peace

in Northern Ireland, you know? Can I go back to... Can I just go back to Bonds for one minute because I think he's the one, you know, I mean, Clemens, too, but I mean, Barry Bonds is, you know, just the thought of him not being a Hall of Famer is crazy to some people, but we all know the reason why. But one of the arguments, and you can help me with this, because I'm not an expert in this area. but what about the argument that says that Bonds had a Hall of Fame career before he started using steroids in Pittsburgh and his first few years in San Francisco? Right. Well, you know what to me, that's a bigger indictment than anything else. He didn't have to cheat to achieve Hall of Fame. He basically cheated because he was jealous.

Tommy, what year did he start? He cheated? Because he started. He started right after the 98. Sosa-McGuire race. Right. Because he was jealous of all the attention they were getting. Right. So he had, what, a 10, 11-year career before then? Yeah.

So let me just ask you the question. Did he have a hall? If he had retired before the 99 season or before the 99 season, would he be in the Hall of Fame? Yes. Okay. He would. And also, I might want to point out that, you know, of the criteria for, there's six criteria

for election to the baseball hall fame. Three of them are character, integrity, and contributions to the game. Yep. I value those. Some people don't. And if they get in, fine. That's what the voters, that's what the membership wants. That's fine.

They get in? That's the way it is. That's the way it was decided. I just don't think they're going to get in. And let me point out for the people who say the writers hated Barry Bonds, they voted him in the NFL. the NL MVP seven times. That was a baseball writer who did that.

Right. Yeah, I mean, he was, he was an unbelievable player. Yeah. But he was a cheater. Yep. And he cheated for all the pettiest of reasons. Some guys cheated to save their jobs. Some guys cheated so they could have a major career.

Yes. This guy cheated because he was jealous. All right. Every year, Tommy, big part. Is this a big thing for you? I mean, how many years have you been a Hall of Fame baseball writer, a voter? Probably 19 years. It's a big deal. It's probably the coolest thing I do. Yeah.

Besides this podcast with you, of course. It is a cool thing that you get to do. Yeah. It's the thing that makes people write up when I tell them, do it, and that's all they want to talk about. Well, I mean, it's quite an introductory thing for you. I mean, it's ladies and gentlemen, I would like to introduce you

to our guest this evening, our guest speaker. He is a 19-year Hall of Fame baseball voter. And by the way, had one of the coolest radio shows, and what a podcast. He's a part of

twice a a week. You know, I also vote for the boxing hall. I know that. I know that. Yeah. Yes. God, you just reminded me of something. So, after the game on Sunday night, I think I tweeted this out.

Yes, I did because somebody said, he said, Tommy would be proud of you. And I said, you know. I know, I saw it. I know what you're saying. I said. Yeah. Because, Hagler-Herns. Well, that's what I thought of. I thought of, I'm like, you know, these final two minutes are

going to be watched over and over again for years to come. You know, people will be on YouTube 15 years from now saying, I want to go watch the final two minutes of that game. Or if somebody hadn't seen it, you know, you got to go watch the final two minutes of Bill's chiefs. That's the all-timer. Because the comp for me is Hagler-Herns. Like whenever somebody says they haven't seen Hagler-Herns, I insist that they spend, you know,

minutes, because that's what it is. It's not even a full nine, but if you get a little bit of the prelim and a little bit of the post fight, you know, it's 10 to 12 minutes. Spend 10 to 12 minutes and watch the three rounds of Hagler-Herns. You will not be disappointed, and you will say, thank you for turning me on to that. And I think that, you know, the final two minutes of the Bill's Chiefs game will be the same thing. That was crazy. I like it. I like it. It's a good comparison. But your fight, Foreman Lyle, that five-round

fight that you turned me on to is unbelievable. Yeah. I remember you're like, you haven't seen Forman Lylel. I have not seen it. And I went and watched it on YouTube and I'm sitting there, I'm like, oh my God, it just kept getting better and better. All right. Ron Lyle,

who learned how to box in prison, that was the days where you could learn how to fight box in prison. Yeah. Bernard Hopkins learned how to box in prison. Yeah, so did, oh God, who was the light heavyweight champ for

many years who came right out of prison? Matthew, Matthew, I'm forgetting. Matt Franklin? Matthew Sad Muhammad? Yeah, Matthew Sad Muhammad. Wasn't he? Okay, yeah.

He was right out of jail. I don't know if he was. I don't know if he was or not. Well, I'm thinking of somebody else. That's when the light heavyweight division was great. I know. Yeah.

That's when, I mean, it was great light-heavyweight then. I thought there was somebody that during that era that was a light-in- There was a guy named James Scott. Yeah. I remember him. He fought while he was in Raleigh. In prison at Rwai. And they showed a fight.

On ABC's wide world of sports. Yes, they showed him. They showed the fight. I tell you're thinking of Dwight Muhammad. Boy, Mohamed Kauai. That's who I'm thinking of. That's who I'm thinking of. Yes.

Yeah. Didn't he fight also in prison? Maybe? I think so. I think he did. What a great fighter he was. Great fighter. What a great tough fighter, yeah.

All right, we're done. Back tomorrow to celebrate 30 years ago tomorrow, the Super Bowl champion Washington Redskins over the Buffalo Bills. All right, Tommy, enjoy the beach. Enjoy your cigar. Enjoy your beers. and be careful with phone numbers on dollar bills. Back tomorrow.